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EPISODE 142: DOLLS ARE TERRIFYING
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EPISODE 142: DOLLS ARE TERRIFYING
Every single doll is possessed and scary, and that’s our opinion here… just kidding, but damn, dolls can be terrifying!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
CHILD’S PLAY and ANNABELLE will have you rethinking buying your kid any doll…
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
–
A proud, independent podcast
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Fri-Gay the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit Fri-Gay13.com.
Childhood Memories and Creepy Dolls
00:00:09
Speaker
My buddy, buddy, wherever he goes, I definitely don't wanna go. My my buddy.
00:00:19
Speaker
my body My buddy and Wow, what a throwback. That jingle lives rent free in my nightmares. Yeah, reminds me of when I had my my buddy.
00:00:31
Speaker
I can almost see him now. Me too, except mine always creeped me out. He used to turn his head on his own and once he whispered my social security number. No, Matty, I'm serious.
00:00:42
Speaker
I can see mine right now. ah he's He's standing in the doorway. Wait, what? What's he holding? ah A tiny axe? And it's it's dripping fun dip?
00:00:55
Speaker
Andrew, run!
Episode Theme: Dolls in Horror
00:00:57
Speaker
It's episode 142. Dolls are terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'm Marjorie Green, and I approve this message. To save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Faith of mine, we honor thee from life to death to rise!
00:01:21
Speaker
in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies. Where are you gonna go?
00:01:32
Speaker
Where are gonna run? Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice!
00:01:43
Speaker
When do we want it? Now! Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh?
00:01:52
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes that is better. Baby alive, soft and sweet.
00:02:05
Speaker
She can drink, she can eat. Look, beautiful Baby Alive is eating her own Baby Alive food right from the spoon. And she's drinking from her bottle.
00:02:18
Speaker
Her skin feels so soft. She's so cuddly. love you, Baby Alive. Baby Alive, the doll that eats and drinks. She's from Kenner.
00:02:29
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Fragé the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Maddie. And I'm Andrew. And this is your first time with us on Fragé the 13th Horror Podcast, first of all, hello. Great to be with you. Glad that you're with us listening to...
00:02:45
Speaker
to the best podcast that has ever been created. Where have you been? Exactly. Well, about horror in real life anyway. We can't speak for all other topics.
Creepy Dolls and Historical Context
00:02:53
Speaker
ah Horror in real life and horror in the movies from a queer perspective.
00:02:58
Speaker
That's what this show is all about. And friends, this is our 142nd episode all about dolls and how terrifying they are.
00:03:09
Speaker
um You know, dolls are pretty scary when you think about it, because they're just there. I don't know how to explain it. They just are. like they just They just are.
00:03:22
Speaker
It's very weird to have a miniature version of a human that's not real. Yeah. It's it's a very weird when you think about like... And, you know, I think the origins of dolls were meant for young women to start to think about childbirth.
00:03:40
Speaker
And start start to think about like how they care for something. and i can have a baby too. Yeah. and Which is very gross if you, if you, if I'm honest, because like, I hate the idea of like women are only for childbirth. Like I, I hate that. I think it's so sick and so gross. And I'm so glad that we're like ah far away from that. Uh, it's in some, in some capacities, you know, it's, it, it, it, like it's, um, this is not an episode about childbirth. I promise people, um, we, we, we promise, but it is interesting that that whole notion, like,
00:04:15
Speaker
You know, i i'm ah I'm around a lot of people who are ah becoming pregnant these days. yeah And that's look, that's a great thing. I'm i'm i'm happy for you if if that's that's what you want.
00:04:26
Speaker
But there is um get ah there's just not a thing inside me that wants to have a child. Do you know what I mean? ah Not anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And like maybe before there was. But. you know Especially in today's world, I think the notion of bringing another child into it is, ah I don't know, maybe both courageous and bizarre all the same time. Does that does that make sense?
00:04:49
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. the The thought of having to prep someone for this world is terrifying to me. it just It doesn't make a lot of sense to me these days. But you know look, i I wish everybody who's having children, you know good luck because you're going to need it.
00:05:04
Speaker
I salute to you. Yeah, maybe young sirs and missus. Yeah, maybe we should just have more dolls. here Here's a doll. Why don't you try taking care of this for a while? See if you can make it work. Speaking of, did you ever have home ec class where you had to take care of a doll or an egg or...
00:05:22
Speaker
yeah there's many There's many implications of this, but like I remember when, in our generation at least, I don't think they do this anymore, but you were given something to take care of for like a week with like a partner in class. Did you ever have that? I had home that class. We didn't do it there. I think ah there there were classes at at my school where you did take care of a baby. I never had that.
00:05:47
Speaker
I do vaguely remember the egg thing though, possibly. I might have i might have done that. And like, look, you know here's the deal. for For a lot of people, like they they do go on to have children.
00:05:59
Speaker
And so like there is something sort of like maybe good about about that that whole exercise. Like, okay, you want to have a baby? Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Can you even like take care of this fucking doll for a couple of weeks? You know what i mean?
00:06:12
Speaker
Before you go and you know have a teen pregnancy kind of thing. like yeah Can you even like take care of this? There's something interesting there.
Toy Nostalgia and Cultural Impact
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, we had those dolls.
00:06:27
Speaker
I never had one, but I remember people having them in school. So there must have been a specific class for this because I definitely took home that because I remember learning about cooking and learning about like baking and stuff. But I don't remember ever having it. But I remember those dolls. And if you held them, you had to hold them at like a certain angle.
00:06:45
Speaker
So that they wouldn't cry. Otherwise they would just cry. You mean so that they wouldn't die? yeah Well, yeah. ah But that's just interesting to think about because I remember when we were younger, that there were many, many episodes of sitcoms like Boy Meets World or Family Matters or any of these where that was like the main like topic was this doll that cried. was like... yeah It's just funny to think about the the way that um popular culture has kind of treated dolls in the past.
00:07:20
Speaker
I mean, i I did have a ah My Buddy doll growing up. I did, too. My mom got my mom got me one. I don't remember what year it was, but i once I did get it, I really was scared of that doll. I i i never played with it ever again.
00:07:34
Speaker
go ahead. yeah go ahead you know ah Funny enough, like so i mean we'll talk about we we have two great movies coming up, Child's Play and Annabelle, where we'll talk about dolls in the horror movies. so But um yeah, speaking of Child's Play...
00:07:52
Speaker
ah When I was younger, i did have i did go by Andy because i you know my name is Andrew, but I went by Andy. And so that was really freaky to me that I had a My Buddy doll and my name was Andy and that movie existed.
00:08:07
Speaker
So we'll just go from there. I cannot imagine he was an Andy. It's so strange. um when When I was a kid, ah my dad went to Hong Kong for business once.
00:08:19
Speaker
And yeah. And he came back with all this stuff. It was very gremlins. It was just like, it was just like merchandise that he came back with. And he came back with like dolls for us and this thing and that thing, whatever.
00:08:33
Speaker
And he brought back these like clown, like he brought back, um, like these little like Asian child dolls. And I remember mine, I remember mine had had, no, I really loved that doll. Actually. It had a, it had a red, had a red costume on. I can see it in my head right now.
00:08:49
Speaker
But then, and I think my brother's was black. It had like a black, like like like karate gi on or something. And then um he there were these clown dolls and there was this clown doll.
00:09:00
Speaker
If I remember correctly, it wore like a black outfit. And it had a white face. and I can't remember remember the rest of it. But um that doll fucking terrified me when I was a kid. and we called it Clowny.
00:09:15
Speaker
And my my siblings would terrify me with Clowny. And they would talk about Clowny. And they would show me Clowny. And I was scared to death of Clowny.
00:09:28
Speaker
Oh, my God. I'm still scared, but in my head. Yeah, I was definitely scared of my buddy doll after Child's Play came out and I had been, you know, witnessed it. I don't know if I had seen the whole movie at that point, but I just knew of Chucky, you know, basically. yeah And then the only other one that kind of freaked me out was I had a second hand. I don't even think it was a real Teddy Ruxpin. I think it was like a like a Dollar Tree version of Teddy Ruxpin.
00:09:54
Speaker
And I just remember that really freaking me out because the way that his mouth moved. um and And of course, like I had a little brother that was a little prankster. So he'd always put like weird cassette tapes in the back, like top or like whatever. And like then fucking offshoot Teddy Ruxpin would, would, you know, yell at us. through now my I actually, I talked about my Teddy Ruxpin in our toys episode. I love my Teddy Ruxpin. Absolutely adored him.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then the other doll that I actually really, really loved that I still have to this day, I actually have two of them is my talking Pee Wee Herman
Horror Films and Socioeconomic Influence
00:10:32
Speaker
doll. Yeah. remember those I absolutely loved.
00:10:36
Speaker
I loved Pee Wee Herman growing up. And I had my mom always bought bought things in like two just in case one of them broke, which is ah odd. But here we are. And so I still have them both and they're actually both with me here. And they, they, I went on a bookshelf.
00:10:52
Speaker
So when I do zooms for work, sometimes people see it and I just love that it's there and I never say anything about it, but I want them to think about I bet they think crazy things about it. I like it.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, i I used to have very, when I was very young, I used to have a cherry puppet that was... yeah, yeah cherry. It was cherry, and the eyes moved from the back, and you could put your hand in the back, and it would talk. like ah that Love cherry. Remember that. So, yeah, big Pee Wee Herman, big Pee Wee Playhouse ah fans over here. Speaking of my buddy, do you know kind of the...
00:11:30
Speaker
um the the the the creation of my buddy oh don't do you want to hear about it tell me all about it so this is from grunge.com it's an article that came out a few years ago just talking about like what happened to my buddy and kid sister because we haven't talked about kid sister yet uh kid sister was the offshoot for girls which is so strange because girls already have thousands of dolls, but we'll talk about it.
00:11:58
Speaker
um So it all starts in 1972. There's a children's book author named Charlotte Zolotaw who published her classic story, Williams doll in one of the first examinations of gender equality when it comes to expectations and support concerning kids and their toys.
00:12:18
Speaker
So interesting to think about in 1972,
00:12:22
Speaker
Considering what's happening now. um but you know The book tells the story of a little boy named William who wants a doll to play with. A request that is treated with apprehension and concern by his parents and scorn and derision from other kids.
00:12:38
Speaker
Until his grandmother steps in and saves the day. She tells William's skeptical father that playing with a doll is a good thing. Because William can practice now and become a good father. someday Let's love god forbid we have good dads jesus right um also noted she was inspired to write the book by her own husband who very much wanted children and was delighted when their son and daughter were born ah quote But even so, he had a hard time with the physical side of it.
00:13:10
Speaker
For instance, he never changed a diaper. He would leave the room when the baby was being changed. This is not a put-down of him. It was a custom of the time. She sought to normalize little boys playing with dolls. Her book struck a chord and was adapted into a short film, as well as a song featured in the 1972 children's album, Free to Be You and Me.
00:13:33
Speaker
However, dolls for boys
Voodoo Dolls and Cultural Misconceptions
00:13:36
Speaker
didn't go mainstream. And when Hasbro introduced their My Buddy doll 13 years later in 1985, it was an unusual and disruptive moment in the toy industry.
00:13:48
Speaker
When Hasbro decided to introduce my buddy, a soft-bodied doll marketed to boys, the ideas of ah boys playing with dolls was still so controversial that the company did careful research before releasing the dolls to the public.
00:14:05
Speaker
In 1985, an article in the New York Times noted the pre-market testing had come to include making sure that the new toys fit what they referred to as, quote, parental value patterns.
00:14:17
Speaker
Hasbro's senior vice president of marketing, ah Stephen Schwartz, told the Times that he had decided to make the MyBuddy ah had Make them my buddy and market the dolls to boys five ah under five because, quote, little boys have a soft side just like little girls.
00:14:37
Speaker
Nevertheless, Hasbro interviewed parents, particularly focusing on fathers in this instance, to ensure that they would be open to the idea of their own boy children playing with dolls in the first place.
00:14:50
Speaker
Per the times, dolls had once again become trendy after a long period of electronic toys taking over the market. Between 1983 and 1985, when I was born, ah shipments of the dolls and other traditional toys went up 111% bringing it in $3.6 billion.
00:15:10
Speaker
dollars ah cabbage Cabbage Patch Kids had just burst onto the scene with such ah and the the shortage of toys and in-store riots in 1985 Christmas season. there ever was a time to experiment with marketing dolls to girls as well as boys, this was it.
00:15:26
Speaker
ah Stephen Schwartz noted ah that children's soft sides had nothing to do with gender as many kids, boys and girls alike. God, even in 1985, we were still taught, we're we're still talking about this to this day. Isn't this, isn't that crazy?
00:15:42
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's, ah ah Both can exist, people. Just because you have a penis or a vagina, that both can exist. Thanks, everybody. Exactly. um The My Buddy advertising campaign shied away from portraying little boys playing with the My Buddy in a way that suggested nurturing or caretaking.
00:16:01
Speaker
Instead, the commercials presented a rough-and-tumble, ready-for-anything doll that little boys could take along on their daily adventures. the catchy My Buddy song that played over the commercials, and and um inescapable during any sort of mid-80s children's television programming, you know just like we sang in our intro.
00:16:23
Speaker
um So basically, the My Buddy was so successful that Hasbro had to introduce a companion doll, Kid Sister, intended for girls. Kid Sister's commercial also featured action-oriented play, um as well as more traditional activities like a tea party.
00:16:39
Speaker
My buddy had worked its way so firmly into pop culture landscape that it inspired a character that would go on to have its own indelible stamp on American culture.
00:16:51
Speaker
This is when ah downfall starts in 1988. United artists released their horror movie child's play, which we'll talk about later in the episode, featuring a good guy doll named Chucky, who bears a more passing resemblance to my buddy, including a nearly identical overalls and striped shirt.
00:17:12
Speaker
Chucky, of course, is possessed by the serial killer, Per the Hollywood Reporter, the original child's play title was Blood Buddy, in accordance to My Buddy, of course. Don Mancini, whose father worked in advertising business, was inspired by Hasbro's attempt to change children's habits and preferences.
00:17:31
Speaker
um And basically, this sought to scare children and was successful. And by the early 90s, the My Buddy doll was discontinued.
00:17:45
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it makes sense. It's like ah ah Chucky Chucky was not only a killer, you know, on in the film, he was he was a killer in the industry, too. And there's there's just I mean, like ah back then Child's Play was very fucking scary.
00:18:01
Speaker
And like it was something that freaked me out as a kid. I didn't want to go near it. I didn't watch it until like I was an adult, basically. like It really freaked me out as a kid. And so like how could it not have that effect you know when you think about it? that's like the The people at Hasbro were probably like, what the fuck, man? Why this happen? damn it. Why this have to happen? But happened, it did.
Gender Expectations and Personal Identity
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, and like it's so funny that you know the late 80s were such a weird time. like ah The 80s itself was kind of like a a weird like sense of, ah ah everything's stable. like We're okay. Everything is fine. And then like the late 80s, early 90s happened, and it was like...
00:18:48
Speaker
we're talking about war again. We're talking like everything became like just very weird again. And so i mean i it was, it was such a a false sense of stability in the eighties. I mean, I told, that's totally what I mean, but because like, I mean, yeah, it's, it's like, I mean, there was so much in, in the, in the underpinnings of, of of what society actually was there. There was a a terrible recession Um, AIDS was, was rampant and was, was killing gay men. Well, it was killing LGBT people left and right and straight people for that matter.
00:19:18
Speaker
um and so, you know, on top of it was this sort of veneer of, of niceness that Reagan was trying to, to, to portray as, as the American norm. And so it yeah I think you know Child's Play was really so well-timed because it came at a time of of what seemed like economic um economic prosperity in America and where where people could buy their their children really cool gifts for for Christmas or for their birthdays or whatever.
00:19:48
Speaker
um But what what did that, I mean, and this is not what the episode is about, but it's something interesting. you know what what was What was the real capitalistic nightmare underneath it?
00:19:59
Speaker
How much did those dolls really cost? And you know that that's not something that was you know necessarily explored in the film, I don't think, maybe a little bit here and there. um But it's something interesting to think about today, nevertheless. It really does sort of lay bare in America at that time.
00:20:16
Speaker
um that was actually pretty bleak when everyone thought it was bright. It was what what what did Ronald Reagan call it? Call America then. It was like ah it's morning in America.
00:20:27
Speaker
that That was his big thing. and that That was the big commercial. um But morning was really just a nightmare for most people. Yeah. Or or like um another generation of keeping up with the Joneses. Like it was like, try to like live up to your neighbor's expectations, which is never a way you should live your life. Because if you, if comparison is only, it's evil. Comparison is the thief of joy they say.
00:20:55
Speaker
um do you want to hear about um another doll that we have talked about on the show before um but i felt like it's probably been 100 episodes since we did so maybe we talk about him again bring him back bring him back um and that's robert the doll um do you remember anything about robert oh yeah yeah i remember robert for sure now famously and i have met sir robert um I went to Key West on my honeymoon ah back in what, 2018, I guess that would have been? 2017? 2017. I got married in 2017. Sorry.
00:21:33
Speaker
um And we went to the museum where Robert the Doll is. Now, if you don't know the story of Robert the Doll, he originally belonged to Robert Eugene Otto, an artist described as eccentric and who belonged to a prominent family in Key West.
00:21:47
Speaker
Wow. The doll was reportedly manufactured by the Steiff Company and of Germany, purchased by Otto's grandfather, went on a trip to Germany in 1904. So very similar to your father going to the Asian countries ah and given to young Otto as a birthday gift.
00:22:07
Speaker
The doll's sailor suit was likely an outfit that Otto wore as a child. So he dressed him up in his own clothes. um The doll remained in the Otto family home at 534 Eaton Street in Key West while Otto studied art in New York and Paris.
00:22:24
Speaker
It is said, um i know this because I went on the ghost tour, um it is said that it was ah propped up in the upstairs window looking onto the main street for everyone to see for many, many years.
00:22:39
Speaker
Now, according to legend, the doll has supernatural abilities that allow it to move, change its facial expressions, and make giggling sounds. Some versions of the legend can claim and that a young girl of Bahamian descent gave Otto the doll as a gift for or as a retaliation for wrongdoing.
00:23:02
Speaker
um I learned on my tour that that's probably not what happened. I think the German grandfather story is a little bit more substantial. um But basically what happens is that if you go to the museum, you're allowed to take pictures with Robert the doll um and take pictures of him, but you have to ask permission.
00:23:21
Speaker
And if you don't ask permission from Robert, he will fuck up your life. And it is hilarious. Not that people's lives are getting fucked up, but that there is a scrolling um slideshow at the museum of people that have sent in letters and emails and everything.
00:23:41
Speaker
back to Robert or back to the museum saying, i am so sorry that I didn't ask for permission. Such and such has happened. and i And I just need my life to get better. And I'm so sorry that I didn't ask for permission.
00:23:53
Speaker
And please, please, please forgive me. And so if you're in Key West, the museum is right by the airport. You can literally walk to it from the airport. um Go see Robert.
00:24:04
Speaker
Tell him Andrew sent you. Nice. Very nice. One other type of doll that I was thinking about when getting ready for the episode is one that has been a part of ah popular culture for a long time and largely misrepresented. And that is the voodoo doll.
00:24:24
Speaker
um And so, you know, like there are a lot of ways to approach this. And, um you know, if you you can go watch a number of different videos on YouTube or, you know, do any a number of Googles to ah to to to find out more about the history of voodoo dolls.
00:24:39
Speaker
And there's there's a lot to like the colonial nature of of Europeans in in Africa and Europeans in the Caribbean. that sort of demonized the practice of voodoo, and made it into something that seems a lot scarier than it actually is.
00:24:53
Speaker
You know, it's funny that it's funny that you bring this up because I've wanted to do a voodoo ah and hoodoo episode for a long time, but I've never wanted to title it voodoo and hoodoo is terrifying because answer enough I don't think it is. Like I Well, you know what?
00:25:07
Speaker
Maybe we'll do a colonialism is terrifying or something like that. And then you can you can bring that up in there because I think that's exactly what what this is. And and I watched ah a wonderful video today about um a voodoo practitioner in Benin in Africa um who who talks just about this, you know, how how her her religion, their religion is is one That is not about human sacrifice. It's not about, you know, this or that. It's it's one about peace. It's one about balance. It's one about justice.
00:25:35
Speaker
And, you know, yeah, there are some some aspects to it that do involve sacrifice, usually the sacrifice of chickens. So, you know, look, if you're an animal rights activist, you might find something wrong with that. And, you know, fair enough if you do.
00:25:46
Speaker
Um, but, um, you know, it's, it's, it's something altogether different to say that there are people who are making voodoo dolls just, you know, just to fuck with people's lives. Yeah. That is usually not what's happening. However, I did happen to find a story, um, from recent years from 2022 about a woman, uh, a transgender woman in New Hampshire,
00:26:07
Speaker
By the way, transgender women are women. If you don't like that, get the fuck out of here. But regardless, a transgender woman in New Hampshire um who said that she was targeted with a voodoo doll left on her car.
00:26:19
Speaker
Oh, no. I'll tell you this story. So this this was this was on CBS News. You can look it up. um And this is in Rochester, New Hampshire. Palana Hunt Hawkins was walking to her car Monday night, and this is back in 2022, mind you, when she noticed something strange on the spot where the hood meets the windshield.
00:26:39
Speaker
I leaned over, she said, and I picked it up, and right before I picked it up, I knew what it was. It was a small clay doll, she said, clearly handmade with breasts and male private parts with a pin stuck through it.
00:26:55
Speaker
It was really jarring, Hunt Hawkins explained. What they depicted was so specifically just grotesque and targeted at my gender. Hunt Hawkins is openly transgender.
00:27:06
Speaker
She came out about six years ago and has been an outspoken advocate for a variety of LGBTQ plus organizations in New Hampshire, even starting her own 603 Equality.
00:27:17
Speaker
She recently organized a pride event in Rochester, and she said, I've done all this advocacy, and it just feels like someone is watching me, maybe. Like, it's pretty concerning, she explained.
00:27:28
Speaker
Based on her activity, she believes the doll was placed on her windshield as her car sat in the driveway of her home she moved into just three weeks prior. I am very worried about my safety, she said.
00:27:40
Speaker
I used to love being a private person, and then when I stepped up to do a lot of this advocacy, I realized that I would have to leave some of that behind, she explained. She's fearful that somebody knew her address to come target her with the doll.
00:27:54
Speaker
Hunt Hawkins called the Rochester police who came to her home, took pictures and took the doll. Rochester police told WBZ, the CBS affiliate there, that they dispose of the doll and are not planning to further investigate the situation.
00:28:09
Speaker
This feels like a very intentional personal attack. And you know what? That's unfortunate that they're not looking into it any further. Hunt Hawkins said. Hunt Hawkins says she feels comfortable and welcomed by her new neighbors, many of whom have have hung rainbow, you are loved signs in their home windows.
00:28:27
Speaker
She has no idea who might have left the doll for her, but has already purchased security cameras for her home in response. I want every angle, she said. i want to make sure I know what's going on because it's just very disheartening.
00:28:40
Speaker
It's you know a really interesting story because you know you just i haven't really ever heard any sort of LGBT specific stories. about voodoo dolls or about this this type of thing happening.
00:28:51
Speaker
um And like, look, while while I don't think that, you know, this particular use of ah of a voodoo doll, and I put that in air quotes, is a voodoo practitioner in Rochester, New Hampshire, I think it's likely somebody who just really hates transgender people and decided to to really freak this person out.
00:29:09
Speaker
But at the same time, this could be somebody who is into magic and who and who does really believe that they're creating um of some sort of magical object that would bring harm to this person.
00:29:21
Speaker
And in either case, I think it's just yet again another disgusting example of what is in store for transgender people these days. um It's just gross that you would do that to anybody.
00:29:35
Speaker
But I think especially to somebody so vulnerable, why would you make them feel so scared? Why would you use a tool of popular culture to really give them such fear? what does What a shitty and what a cowardly thing to do. I just think it's it's so bizarre.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, I just, I... I don't understand why people are so obsessed with other people, like in like in any capacity, let alone transgender people who are just trying to exist and be happy.
00:30:05
Speaker
And so can i just let people live their lives. there' Nothing that they are doing is causing you harm.
00:30:17
Speaker
you So, you know, I think it all comes back to power. And, you know, like you were talking earlier about how when they were developing the My Buddy doll, they were worried about how boys might, how this, how the market would would would react to such a toy.
00:30:30
Speaker
you know would Would the people who actually make the purchase, would they see the value in in a boy having a doll? And at at first, you know there there there was great fear about, well, you know boys shouldn't have dolls.
00:30:44
Speaker
that that That would be... And what they really mean by that is that would take away the masculine power of the boy. And so there's ah this this this deep fear that if a boy has a doll, then that means he will end up powerless. He will end up emasculated. He will end up gay. He will end up whatever the case might be.
00:31:03
Speaker
And it's just, it's it's so weird how... how our, it's not just our contemporary history, it's it's all of human history. It just continually rotates around power all the time, all the time.
00:31:17
Speaker
and And when it comes to transgender people, transgender people take the power structure and just flop it on on its head. And they say, no, actually, gender doesn't matter. Gender is ridiculous. And and let me just show you how ridiculous it is. You know, I know that I am not even meant to be the gender that I was that I was born. And I i know that deeply in my soul and in my heart and in my body.
00:31:38
Speaker
And thus, I will live the way that I want to live. That takes the whole American culture and not just American culture, the whole but culture around the world really. um and And it it takes that that, I should say, traditional culture and just goes, nope, we don't agree with this. There's a different way to be, a different way to view the world.
00:31:56
Speaker
And for some people, they just can't take that because it it threatens what they think is their own power. And that's the shitty part. And I think that's a lot of what we're dealing with today. you know i mean, look,
00:32:07
Speaker
we're talking about dolls. You don't expect to like morph into this discussion, but it's kind of all part of the same thing at the of the day, you know, what i mean and that's, it's really interesting. Yeah. Imagine the imagine the um the world of humans where expectation is not a thing and what we could develop into and what we could exceed when we don't have expectation.
00:32:37
Speaker
And it's just, it's an interesting thing. or Or maybe where the only expectation is that you're just a good person. Like, yeah. i Well, yeah. I mean, i mean, expectation when it comes to male, female, boy, girl. sure um Just imagine like the height that we could ah get enlightened to when we just understand each other and we don't yeah bifurcate what people are.
00:32:59
Speaker
but so I don't know. It sounds like you're describing a Star Trek future. Yeah. Anyway, do maybe one day. and Listen, folks, I hope you enjoyed that discussion about dolls. um I certainly did.
00:33:13
Speaker
And look, we'll take a little break here. We'll be right back with what you've been watching, bitch.
00:33:22
Speaker
Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
00:33:33
Speaker
All right, it's time for Whatcha Been Watching, Bitch. Whatcha Been Watching, you dull bitch. Good one. but There you go.
00:33:45
Speaker
It's that time of the episode where we talk about what we've been watching for all you little bitches out there. And by bitch, I mean wonderful listener. um Maddie, tell me, Whatcha Been Watching, bitch?
00:33:59
Speaker
Sure. ah The first one that I've been watching is the new Black Mirror. Black Mirror Season 7 on Netflix. Came out on April 10th. um I binged it all in a day and a half.
00:34:11
Speaker
um Exciting to have ah you know yet another ah ah series of Black Mirror that is really not that far away from how we're living right now, quite frankly.
00:34:21
Speaker
um so some Some pretty good episodes in this one. um the I'd say that the um the first one... is is maybe maybe the best one in the series it uh it's called common people chris o'dowd is in it and i forget i like him i forget the name of the woman um who's in it i can't remember her name right now but but whatever um it's a really good one it's about a husband and a wife and um she uh is in an accident and And she can be saved.
00:34:54
Speaker
But the only way that she can be saved is if she signs up for a new subscription service, a new streaming subscription service called Rivermind.
00:35:06
Speaker
And they implant a little thing in your brain. And if you sign up for it, it will keep you alive for a monthly subscription fee of I think it was $300 something like that.
00:35:17
Speaker
So, um, you know, like I, I won't give much more away than that, but it's a, it's it, it, that is an episode that left me a little bit shaken as somebody who, who works for a software as a subscription service, um, uh, company.
00:35:31
Speaker
Um, and because I, I don't think we're probably too far away from it. And, ah you know, that, that remains that, that, that is what remains the, the, the most effective thing about black mirror is black mirror constantly shows you a mirror for what's going on in the real world and it's like a mirror that kind of shows you everything going on but maybe if it were just a little bit in the future and maybe not even that far in the future maybe even just a year in the future like we might not be too far away from this right now and um really interesting stuff there are some other really wonderful uh uh episodes in this including a continuation of the uss callister if you remember that from a couple seasons ago
00:36:14
Speaker
So, um, well, as usual, I really enjoyed it. Uh, you know, I, I think nothing will ever beat the first couple black, black mirror seasons. Um, you know, that, that none of them have been as good as those, but, uh, I think this one is pretty strong and, you know, look, I think for some people, maybe it might be too much to watch it right now. Cause there's just a lot going on. If that's, if that's the case, I totally get it.
00:36:36
Speaker
But you know what? Look, here's the deal dudes. It's not going to go away. So like, if you're avoiding this thing, you know, I can't watch this right now. ah When are you gonna? Because guess what? I think it's going to be bad for a long, long time.
00:36:52
Speaker
You may as well have some entertainment while you can get it. And honestly, some of these episodes, they're very entertaining. So that is my first one for what you've been watching, bitch. Cool. Yeah, i I fell off of Black Mirror, um I think, this season, the Miley Cyrus season. So maybe I need to catch back up. I just I kind of forgot about it. to be ah yeah that that The good thing about Black Mirror is that if you miss some of them, it's OK.
00:37:18
Speaker
you Yeah, you can bounce around where you want, which which which is honestly, you don't get that a lot with with stuff anymore. So it's it's kind of a benefit of it. Yeah, cool. um um i thought that I forgot that they made that announcement that they were having new episodes. So fun, fun, and fun, fun.
00:37:33
Speaker
um My first one is a movie called Y2K, not to go forward, but to go backwards to the year 2000.
00:37:42
Speaker
Did you did do you ever see the preview for this movie? ah It sounds vaguely familiar. So basically the premise is teens in 1999 are prepping for the year 2000. I remember that. I remember that.
00:38:00
Speaker
And they're going to have a party. And basically it kind of surrounds like a little bit of a love story with one of the main characters and his like unrequited love and... um And that kind of a thing. But at this Y2K, things do go haywire. Like, it's not like our Y2K where we all, we said, Happy New Year. And then we got quiet for a second and looked around and we're okay.
00:38:25
Speaker
All right, great. Like, keep going. This is where all the electricity goes out, starts things start to go haywire and the electronics start to take over. um Listen, I think the first half of this movie is pretty fun and a pretty interesting take on Y2K and the fears that we were, you know, kind of going with, uh, during that time in our lives.
00:38:50
Speaker
But the, like the latter half of this movie is just boring. I just think it's, it's not that great. So I was, I was, I was excited to watch this movie because it's nostalgic for like a time that, you know, both you and me went through.
00:39:04
Speaker
Um, but like at the end of it, I was just kind of like, well, and I don't need to watch that movie again. so i mean, you can watch it if you want. It's not going to get you getting a ringing end doson endorsement from me.
00:39:17
Speaker
um But that's it. Y2K. It's on Max. You can watch it. Nice. Very nice. i might might give it a watch just just just for the nostalgia factor. Yeah. Yeah. um My next one is a new series. Oh, actually, I don't think it's new. It but it might just be new for me. i think It came out last year.
00:39:34
Speaker
i brought this up on the podcast before. Oh, yeah oh you did. Okay. I must have forgotten about it. But um we'll talk about it now again. if For me, it's on Disney Plus over here. And it's called Out There, Crimes of the Paranormal. It's produced by the Duplass Brothers, which is really cool.
00:39:47
Speaker
So fun. It's such a fun show. Yeah. And it's it's really good. So i've I've been working my way through the episodes over the past couple of nights. i Not going to lie. It's a great watch when you're stoned. It's just it's is good.
00:39:59
Speaker
um And it has a bunch of episodes, just to about a little bit of everything. But like with like it's like crime and paranormal stuff put together. um Some of the interesting ones were ah The Lizard People, which is just insane.
00:40:14
Speaker
um The Pope lit goat man in Louisville, Kentucky, which is crazy. There was a really good one about the Jersey witch hunts. um And I'm going to finish up with a couple more tonight about like this. There's one of the smoky mountains. There's one in in San Francisco's China, San Francisco's Chinatown.
00:40:31
Speaker
um So, yeah, I mean, it's um it's like a little bit it's a little bit of this, it's a little bit of that. kind of you know It's a little bit of unsolved mysteries. It's a little bit of you know X-File. It's a little bit of kind of all the stuff that we all love in this stuff.
00:40:45
Speaker
And i I just think it's great. i I think it's produced really well, which is you know not a surprise based on who is producing it. And it sort of weaves in animation with with with ah with with live video.
00:40:56
Speaker
And I've just really enjoyed it. So if you haven't watched out there just like me, I highly recommend it. Go watch it. I think you'll probably love it if you're a listener of this podcast. Yeah, it's funny. This is um from from the last time that you were here in the U.S., you know, when your your phone number changes for that little amount of time.
00:41:18
Speaker
It's one of the last texts that I sent you after. Oh, I probably missed it. Yeah. And I think you missed it because I was like, oh, that show that I was talking to you about was called Out There Primes of the Paranormal. um i but So I'm so glad that you finally watched it. Because like as I was watching this, I was like, if Maddie still lived here, this would be something we would be watching. Right.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. this is it's it's It's one of the things that, thank God, like finally more people use WhatsApp now. Because when I change numbers... you have i I'm actually kind of sad thinking about all the texts I probably miss from people who are like reaching out to me and I'm like, I still love you. i just never saw it. I'm sorry.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah. All right. My next one is One of Them Days. This is currently on Netflix. It was in theaters right around the holidays, maybe right after the holidays. ah This is the Kiki Palmer SZA movie.
00:42:07
Speaker
um ah And this is basically about two young women in L.A. The main premise is that they need to pay their rent. Like that's like the main premise. But it kind of takes like a I don't know what the best way... it It's like a... the best What's but like the best comparison?
00:42:27
Speaker
um Almost just like a hijinks movie about like what can they what trouble can they get up to in LA when they're trying to just pay their rent, essentially. Okay. um This movie is so funny.
00:42:40
Speaker
It's so, so funny. And i listen, Kiki Palmer, I think, is one of... ah the unsung heroes of Hollywood. And I think that you know she already has a thriving career, of course, but I still think she hovers right below that A-list area where she should be.
00:42:58
Speaker
um But I just think she's so funny. SZA, I know nothing about. I've maybe heard two songs, but she does a great job as an actress and in this movie.
00:43:09
Speaker
And honestly, I think this one kind of people like fell behind people. And I think they didn't really notice it because maybe it came around out around the same time. I think this if I was running the studio, I probably would have put this in a May, June release when like like movies about summer are starting to heat up and like hijinks movies are are are getting ready to like.
00:43:29
Speaker
ah But I think they released it at the wrong time. And I think a lot of people didn't see it. So if you didn't see it, I'd highly recommend One of Them Days on Netflix. Nice. My next one is the new season of The Last of Us. Just began last weekend.
00:43:43
Speaker
um Haven't recorded, haven't watched it yet. There you go. It only has one episode so far. The next one will come out this weekend that we are recording. um And yeah, you know, look, I mean, there's not a whole lot to say just because like it's it's the new season. There's barely anything to really talk about.
00:43:59
Speaker
um But the first episode was was was really good so far. um And you know the the only thing about it, is uh and i bet this will happen for a lot of people if you haven't started watching the new season yet is that honestly a lot happened in the last season and i i kind of forgot a lot of it because the first one when did the first one even come out i can't remember what year that was it's been a while since that first season i feel like maybe it's it's even been like has it been like Was that like 2021 or something?
00:44:30
Speaker
so I mean, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I mean, blah, blah, blah, blah. What I'm trying to say here is that the the a long time has passed. And so, um or no, it was actually 2023. Not that long. But look, two years is still a long time.
00:44:44
Speaker
um So I just kind of forgot a lot of things. I forgot about, you know, the the last episode in season one and and how... um how what's his face? Pedro Pascal had to kill all those people to get her out of the out of that hospital. I forgot about this. I forgot about that. I forgot about this. I forgot about that.
00:45:02
Speaker
What am I trying to say? I'm trying to say if you haven't started it yet, do yourself a favor and go back and watch that last episode first just to remind yourself of what's going on. um It will be a good help to you because I started watching the second one, the the new one. And I was like, wait, what? I don't remember what's going on.
00:45:19
Speaker
um And then once I went back and watched that one and then watched the new one again, I was like, ah, now I feel better. and So yeah, I think the new one is, it's really good so far. And I'm just going to say that there's not much more to say.
00:45:30
Speaker
So I'm hoping that the rest of the season continues to be as good. Yeah. It's one of those shows like, um, I, I find this like prestige TV that like where we need to like have like gaps in between. It's so hard to keep up.
00:45:47
Speaker
Like the one that I echo back to, and I was just complaining about last weekend. Um, when we were, we were out and about with friends is stranger things, stranger things came out in 2016 and it's only had a long time ago.
00:46:01
Speaker
It's only had four seasons. Yeah. Like, what are we doing? Come on. Like, come on. It is wild. But um that I digress.
00:46:13
Speaker
All right. My next one is Million Dollar Secret. This is on Netflix. I don't think a lot of people have seen this one. um it's i think it I think what Netflix is trying to do is they're trying to cash in on ah the traders a little bit because this is a reality show that puts, um I think it's 10 people, if I remember were correctly at the beginning, they put them in a house and one person, they all have a box, like ah a box, like a a little personal, like ah almost like a music box. you know what I'm talking about? Like with the little ballerina in it type of thing.
00:46:47
Speaker
but But one of their boxes has a million dollars in it. o And they... The person that has a million dollars know that they have the million dollars, but they have to keep it a secret from everyone else because everyone else is trying to vote out the millionaire so that they could potentially get the million dollars. interesting and the thing about this show is that that's really interesting is that they give the millionaire little secret to things to do, um like little journeys to do.
00:47:16
Speaker
Like one of them is like you have to get three people to say Justin Timberlake, but you can't say like lyrics and you can't sing his music, but you have to get three people to say his name and then you'll get three other you get you'll get three additional votes at the next vote or whatever. Like you'll be in power at the next vote. And so um this was that listen, I am a sucker for competition reality. Yes, you are.
00:47:44
Speaker
I love it. I don't care what people say about me or my taste. I just love it. And I thought that they did a really good job of casting this cast and making it very relatable.
00:47:57
Speaker
And then also, like the way people exist when money is X state is so fascinating to me. Because I'm not giving anything away, but there is one woman who gets the million dollars very, very early.
00:48:10
Speaker
And then she ends up basically ah giving it away. She ends up like being like, I don't want the money. i i just want someone else to have it for now. Maybe it'll come back to me in the future, but I don't want it.
00:48:21
Speaker
And then she revealed the cast she reveals to the cast that you know I was the millionaire, but I'm not the millionaire anymore. And then they turn on her so fast and they are like, how dare you lie you how dare, and I'm like, that's the game, you guys, like, stop it. And so it's just fascinating to watch like these experiments where people are faced with life-changing money and how they will just change how they think. ah Yeah. Generally, people are going to be absolutely terrible and shitty when it comes to especially that much money. Like just yeah my lord.
00:48:58
Speaker
So that's Million Dollar Secret on Netflix. I'd highly recommend it. It was a fun little watch. I think it's only eight episodes. So very nice. ah My final one is one that I watched last night. It's on Mubi, directed by Gia Coppola. um And it is based on a book called Body of Work by Kate Gersten.
00:49:15
Speaker
um And it is called The Last Showgirl. Oh, is this on Mubi now? It is. Yeah, it's starring. It's starring in Pamela Anderson. Jamie Lee Curtis is in this. Kiernan Shipka is in this.
00:49:27
Speaker
um The big guy, the big guy from the the the knock of knock on the cabin, whatever that guy, you know what i mean? they butista Yeah, he's huge. That guy. He's in it. You know what? this is um This is a movie that is in the same vein as The Wrestler.
00:49:45
Speaker
It's in the same vein kind of as like I, Tonya. It's in the same vein as like, you know, that kind of movie. um Kind of reminds me maybe even a little bit of ah the guy that won Best Picture this year, Anora.
00:50:00
Speaker
Or like Lost in Translation. a little bit like that, yeah. And um it's um it's really good. And you know look that this this is not a perfect movie. um But what i love about it is that it's Pamela Anderson. like You have never, ever seen her before.
00:50:16
Speaker
You've never seen her like this in your life. And you know what? She's really good. She's really, really good. And Pamela Anderson has had a crazy life. And she had a sex tape released, you know, ah but with with her in it that should have never been released.
00:50:31
Speaker
And, you know, are so many things happened to this woman that that should have never happened and that that gave people the wrong idea about about who she is. And um I think she's always been unapologetic and I think she's always been very strong.
00:50:44
Speaker
And I think, you know, people have always had the wrong idea about about who she really is. And ah this is a movie that shows you a whole other side to her. It really shows you how much talent she really does have.
00:50:58
Speaker
um So i I really enjoyed this. Apparently she she was i did i didn't clock this at the time, but she was nominated for Best Actress at the at the Golden Globes for this. And um it's it's a shame she didn't win it almost, to be honest, because she was really, really good.
00:51:13
Speaker
Kiernan Shipka is also very good in this movie. Dave Bautista. I think this this was really good for him, something very different for him. i really appreciated that. Jamie Lee Curtis. um You know, Jamie Lee Curtis lately has been en roles like the if if you've seen the bear, um the role that the role that she played in this one is not too far off of it. I'm just going to be honest with you.
00:51:37
Speaker
And that kind of seems to be just like all that Jamie Lee Curtis is playing anymore. And and like I look, I love Jamie Lee. I'm i'm not saying that I don't love her.
00:51:49
Speaker
What I'm saying is it would be great if people gave her a little something different to do. Yeah, because like I think and you you you you can watch the movie and I'm sure that you'll see what I'm talking about here. But it's it's kind of like she's constantly playing alcoholics.
00:52:04
Speaker
who are who who are not capable of like filtering what they say. that like that that is That is like the basic character anymore for any Jamie Lee Curtis character.
00:52:15
Speaker
And I'm just kind of tired of seeing that because i and I love Jamie Lee and I know that she is capable of so much more. So it's like she's good in this, but also i i was i as what as I was watching it, I was like, God, haven't I seen this like 10 times from you already kind of thing, you know?
00:52:31
Speaker
So, um you know, be ah beyond that point, which is ah ah a nitpicky one from ah from a big Jamie Lee Curtis fan, um I think this was really a marvelous movie. And I was really glad that I watched it last night.
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah, I've been wanting to watch this. i just um Once it was out of theaters, it kind of fell off the radar of like, where is it going to go? like where is it where are we Where can we watch this? And so I'm glad to see that it ah found a home um because I did want to see it. It just was, man, I got to tell you, that the the rate of movies going into the theater and out of the theater is so fast now.
00:53:02
Speaker
I can't even keep up. If you don't go the first two weeks, you're done. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be honest. the the last The last thing that I saw in the theater was um was Wicked. And and i go to the cinema a lot.
00:53:15
Speaker
And like i've I've just been so busy with work and with other things. i I haven't had as much of a chance to go. And then like the things that I want to go see, there by the time i I have the chance to go see them, they're already gone.
00:53:26
Speaker
i know. It's insane. You haven't even given us a chance. like can you give us like Can you give us a minute here, please, to catch up? Yeah, it makes it makes me miss like the second run theaters that used to that we used to have. that Like the one I used to work at. The one I used to work at.
00:53:41
Speaker
All right. My final one is at Mid-Century Modern. This is a sitcom. i i need to start watching this. I have heard a lot about On Hulu. ah This is Matt Bomer and Nathan Lane and the other guy and the other woman who plays the mom. I don't know all the actors' names, but um basically this follows...
00:54:03
Speaker
um Nathan Lane's character who lives in Palm Springs and his two friends decide to move to Palm Springs and they all live in the same house together. Like that's the that's the basic premise.
00:54:14
Speaker
um And Matt Bomer is kind of like the younger one of the group. So really what this is, is it's kind of a um ah Will and Grace meets Golden Girls for gay people, if that makes any sense. Makes um and as've i've heard I've heard that the that my friend Dermot told me that the bar that they go to is called Fisties.
00:54:39
Speaker
Is that oh my God. I didn't even clock that. That's so funny. He told me I was laughing so hard when he told me it was ridiculous. um This is definitely for people like you and me who grew up with three camera sitcoms. Like we grew up with like Friends and Will and Grace and like all these shows, ah Married with Children. Like it's it's meant for those people. But yeah it also is like way more adult.
00:55:04
Speaker
Like the humor is like... like they talk about sex. Like it's it's not, it's not shy of just like talking about sex and like talking about like being horny and talking about like, I don't know, like they, like one, one episode is that they hire like a housekeeper, a new housekeeper and they end up hiring the guy that's hot and they just all like, kind of like, ah go after him, like the whole episode. Like, and so like,
00:55:29
Speaker
What I'm saying is that the the show is not groundbreaking in any way, but there is something to it where I'm like, wow, this is like not shying away from just like talking about how people live, like think a how gay people are.
00:55:47
Speaker
And then, you know, the, the, the added, um, effect of that, his mom, Nathan Lane's mom also lives with them is like the, she's the, she's the, the, the, the quote unquote, like straight person, you know, of the show. And, yeah and so she kind of, uh, has a lot of the humor in the show.
00:56:05
Speaker
And so like, I've seen a lot of people say that they, uh, think that like, I've seen a lot of people say like Matt Bomer looks dead behind the eyes and I'm like, yeah, that's his character. He's the young, hot dummy. like have you Have you hung out with people in our community before? right Those people that exist a lot. Trust me.
00:56:24
Speaker
and so like It's called drugs, people. i get i get the criticism, but I also kind of am like, can you look just one step further into like what they're trying to accomplish with the show? Just like, look, let's look a little bit further.
00:56:37
Speaker
You know what? I'm i'm really interested to to watch it and not to go too deep again, but welcome to our podcast where we go deep on weird shit. um I mean, look, I'm glad that that that there's a show where gay people are just talking about gay things and like and like people are seeing that because we are suddenly in a weird position. Yeah. Yet again, as a community where no one really understands who we are and what we do.
00:57:04
Speaker
And so who we are and what we do becomes something almost criminal or becomes something pathological. And like you, you see it a lot with like you. Like really young gay people like who are being very strange about sex and very strange about like what we do in the community.
00:57:26
Speaker
And I think of that that is being fueled in so many ways by just like. people outside of them influencing them about people in our generation, people in our generation and what we do and how we have lived and how we have evolved.
00:57:41
Speaker
And I think that's really disturbing because we're seeing a younger generation of gay people almost like revolting against us. And I think that's fucking, I think it's fucking bizarre because they are like the really young ones are weird about transgender people.
00:57:57
Speaker
They are weird about people in their 30s and above. They think that they are they they think that if you're somebody in your 30s and you like somebody like five years younger than you, they literally go online and call you a pedophile.
00:58:10
Speaker
Like, and I just want to point out to people, you're not that's not what that word means. And so like all of these terms are getting thrown around and they're being fueled by right wing nut jobs because people don't know us anymore.
00:58:27
Speaker
And I think that's really scary because we were getting somewhere good where like people did know us and they were friendly with us. And now we're back to a place of fear again. And I really don't like that.
00:58:39
Speaker
So I think the more things like this that just show us having fun and being ourselves, thank God, make more. Yeah. Please make more of it. I would definitely recommend it. Did that make sense? Yeah, yeah, no. And I think that that's what this show is meant for. Thank God. it It's meant to just show like, we're all just fucking people, man. Yeah. Like, stop it. And guess what? People are fucking weird. And they always fucking have been. And we probably always will be.
00:59:07
Speaker
Cool. Well, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us Black Mirror, the new season on Netflix, Out There, Crimes of the Paranormal, The Last of Us on HBO here, Sky there, and The Last Showgirl on Mubi.
00:59:24
Speaker
And Andrew brought us Y2K on Max, One of Them Days on Netflix, and as well as Million Dollar Secret, and Mid-Century Modern on Hulu, or over here, it's on Disney+. plus So that's been another segment of What You Been Watching, and Bitch. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode, One of the Best, Child's Play.
00:59:50
Speaker
Everyone has a birthday they'll always remember. Can we open my presents now, Mommy?
00:59:58
Speaker
A good guy! I knew it! Hi, I'm Chucky. He's something, isn't he? This is Andy's. Time for bed, Andy.
01:00:10
Speaker
Good night, baby. Good night, Aunt Maggie. Good night,
01:00:16
Speaker
Chucky.
01:00:28
Speaker
Everyone knows most accidents happen at home. did that happen?
01:00:36
Speaker
This is no accident. Andy? I'm Detective Mike Norris, homicide. Andy! Ms. Peterson's dead, Ms. Barclay. She fell from the kitchen window.
01:00:48
Speaker
Someone's moved in with the Barclay family, and so has terror. know who was on the couch. Andy. Who, Andy? Chucky. Nobody believes you about Chucky.
01:01:02
Speaker
He came alive my hand. I... Oh, for God's sake. Why won't you believe me? Because I'm sane, Mrs. Barkley. Sane and rational. No one believes the truth text um or lives to tell it. are There's nothing nice about murder.
01:01:26
Speaker
And there's nothing innocent
01:01:34
Speaker
about child's play.
01:01:42
Speaker
My Chucky, Andrew, tell us all about Child's Play. You'll wish it was only make-believe. An innocent-looking doll is inhabited by the soul of a serial killer who refuses to die.
01:01:58
Speaker
Directed by Tom Holland. Written by Don Mancini, John Lafayette, and Tom Holland. Production and distribution were handled by United Artists. Karen is played by Catherine Hicks. Andy is played by Alex Vincent.
01:02:10
Speaker
Detective Norris is played by Chris Sarandon. Maggie is played by Dina Manhoff. jack is played by tommy swirloff swirlo sorry uh john bishop is played by raymond oliver and chucky slash charles lee ray himself is played by brad duroff this is rated r it comes in in 87 minutes it was released on november nine of 1988 shot chicago illinois shot in chicago illinois And the budget was $9 million, dollars bringing in $44 million.
01:02:42
Speaker
dollars Now, as we have alluded to earlier in the episode, this is not a first watch for either of us, but it's a first talk on the show. So, Matty, what were your impressions of Child's Play this time around?
01:02:57
Speaker
I love Child's Play. um it's It's such a great movie for so many reasons. I think, number one... Pardon me. It's just that um the the the the villain himself, Chucky, is such an insane villain.
01:03:13
Speaker
Like, the the way that they came up with the idea for Chucky and the way that it eventually developed and how this film came to be, I just think is so interesting.
01:03:24
Speaker
And the way that they were so smart to play off of the My Buddy thing um was just brilliant. It was absolutely brilliant.
01:03:35
Speaker
And perhaps, I mean, if you if you really think about Child's Play, if Chucky had been any other toy... like if it had been a clown or if it had been of some like some like like vintage toy or something like that like a barbie or so or or a barbie i there's no way it would have worked but it works because right at that same time you had the same looking doll with the same kind of you know whatever those are called overalls or whatever overalls and the same striped shirt and all the rest of the shit the weird kind of like campbell soup kid face all all all all all the all of that kind of stuff
01:04:11
Speaker
It just hit perfectly. And, you know, I don't know, like, yeah obviously, the the the the Child's Play series, which I think is over now entirely, and that ended like two years ago, maybe, or maybe maybe last year? The new one? ended it ended last year when it was canceled. um I know Don Mancini has said that it's not the end.
01:04:34
Speaker
Okay. Well, that's good. But we'll see in what way it manifests itself next. Sure. Essentially. mean, the the The point I'm going to make there is is I'm sure like a younger generation has been able to connect to that in in a really interesting way. I wonder if they connect to child's play as much as like somebody like like like like you or me.
01:04:53
Speaker
um But I think for four people like you and me who who are of that era, this one just punches you in the gut and makes you laugh and makes you scared and does everything because it brings you right back to when you were a child.
01:05:06
Speaker
When you too, as we both discussed earlier, were scared and of your own My Buddy doll. and um and i you know And so there's there's that aspect to it. There's the other aspect to it that I that i love in in certain horror movies, which ah you know you see in films like The Exorcist.
01:05:24
Speaker
ah where you you've got a mother who cares really deeply for their child. and it's the And if you think about it's the same kind of motif as the exorcist. You've got a single mother and you've got a child who she cares for deeply.
01:05:38
Speaker
The child suddenly becomes ah gripped in in the ah in the the some some kind of crazy thing that that occurs way out of their power and they do whatever they can to save their child.
01:05:52
Speaker
you've got the same sort of thing playing out here. And I think that's marvelous. It's just marvelous to watch Karen do whatever she can to protect Andy. um And that's that's really cool.
01:06:04
Speaker
And, you know, like, ah as somebody who had a really good mom, you know, like, that that that really appeals to me. Like, i I love watching that play out because I i don't know, but I think my mom would probably do the same thing if a toy was trying to kill me. You know what I mean?
01:06:17
Speaker
So like it's um it's it's great because of that. And then it's great just because of the humor. you know you've got Don Mancini is just brilliant. And also a queer creator and in in in the in the horror genre.
01:06:31
Speaker
And so there is an element of campiness. ah But it but but like campiness that isn't just like wincy mincing. It's campiness in the sense of like wittiness and, and, ah and, and the sense of timing.
01:06:44
Speaker
And so you've got like, you know, pretty, you know, a lot of this movie is funny because of, ah because of what Chucky says, like it's, it's impossible not to laugh. when after aunt Maggie dies, um then Chucky tells the Andy that she's a bitch and she deserved it. Right. And then, and then he goes and repeats that to his mom.
01:07:05
Speaker
And like, you know, at, at first glance, that's like horrifying. And even and to the mom, she's like, why would you say that? But like, if you're an adult, you're, you gotta be cracking up a little bit at that. Cause it's, it's just funny to hear a kid say that, you know,
01:07:20
Speaker
um So, that I mean, this movie just has so much going for it. And, you know, many, many watches later, i just think it's it's a marvelous one to return to, especially for an episode like this.
01:07:31
Speaker
Yeah. ah So Child's Play, obviously, we've we've seen it before. But I think on this rewatch, I was just reminded of like...
01:07:42
Speaker
how good movies could be yeah that makes any sense like totally original you can just tell that they like really worked hard on this movie like from the uh from like the doll itself and like how it functions in between being a robot and then also being like you know someone dressed up in an an outfit and how it moves and like we didn't we didn't see this back then and now that we have cgi we don't see it anymore like it's all just exactly yeah and so like the practical effects of just how this movie like quote unquote like works it just it's kind of alarming like how good it is like i don't know like
01:08:27
Speaker
um And then, you know, we have the the voice work of Brad Dourif and the, you know, the other voice. I forget who did the other voice, kind of the more childish voice, but um of Chucky. it It just works so well within the context of the movie.
01:08:42
Speaker
And like, I honestly think like, you know, we we've most recently done a lot of the Omen movies, which I kind of praised as like ah a pretty good, you know, like um series of movies. But if I'm going to put my money down on anything, I think the child's play movies are probably the most consistent.
01:09:00
Speaker
um of like I think so, too. And, you know, we've done Bride of Chucky on the show before. We haven't done any of the other ones. You know, if they fit within our themes, we'll probably do more in the future. But like, it's just how they did this and how they made it such a successful franchise should be studied because it's still going to this day. movie was made in 1988, for God's
01:09:22
Speaker
um About a killer doll. yeah But I mean, and and the the all the spinoff stuff has been fantastic. I mean, like, I mean, we did Bride of Chucky. That's a great fucking movie. We had so much fun talking about that one.
01:09:34
Speaker
And the um the series itself, which what was the series called? Was it just called Child's Play? It was just it was just called Chucky. Yeah, it was it was called Chucky. Right, right. Yeah. The series, I thought the series was great and it explored so many things. It was so much fun to watch. So you're right.
01:09:48
Speaker
i mean, it's living all the way up until, what, two years ago, 2023, right? That's that's it an intense amount of time for a single franchise. Yeah. And so what I'll say about this movie is I just think that it's... it's It's so it's so for so for such a fantastical idea of a serial killer putting their soul into a doll and then that doll killing people. like What?
01:10:12
Speaker
It's honestly so grounded of a movie because it follows, like you said, a single mother who works at fucking Carson Peary Scott in Chicago, which now is out of business. um But it it explores Chicago. It shows him on the CTA on, I think, the Green Line going um out west to go to like some of the more derelict areas of the city.
01:10:34
Speaker
it It shows um you know downtown when it used to be gross and seedy. And scary. It shows the riverfront where like now is like bustling with like restaurants and bars and stuff.
01:10:47
Speaker
And it used to just be like where, you know, like homeless encampments used to be like it. There's something very grounded about this movie and that showing Chicago and how it used to be.
01:10:59
Speaker
And i just it fills me with so much joy that this exists to show like a snapshot in time. oh totally. Yeah. of where we were as a society at that time.
01:11:10
Speaker
And it's funny, I did not even know this, but when I first moved to Chicago, I lived on Diversi, and and i lived two buildings down from this building. From the Brewster? Yeah.
01:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, I was right. I lived right. Yeah. And so like, um it's just funny to like, see like, oh, i that that that would that's a liquor store now. Like, you don't even mean like, oh, yeah, things and stuff. But like, um I don't know, there's just something about this movie that it's it's so ridiculous. Like, like, take the opening, for instance, where we have Chris Sarandon, who is the only cop running after this serial killer, which is kind of funny.
01:11:52
Speaker
um but like they go into the toy store and everything happens and literally the toy store explodes from like like electricity it explodes they blow up this it's insane and then he's just like and he and him in turn he's in the building keep in mind like he should be dead but he just like walks away like not even he's he's unscathed because he's chris sarandon and he can't be killed in any of these movies yeah But, um, and so like, there's something so fantastical about that, but then it's like still so grounded in like, oh yeah, this is Wabash and Van Buren. So I don't know. there's There's something about this movie that really just tickles my funny bone because like you said, there is a lot of humor in the depiction of Charles Lee Ray and like just how vindictive of a dick and an asshole he is. He's terrible.
01:12:43
Speaker
Yeah. But then there's also like this family dynamic um with Catherine Hicks and and and the and little kid then Andy um that is just so endearing because she's she just wants to, you know, get this doll for her child.
01:13:00
Speaker
And, you know, and thirty five dollars that she pays for the the doll in the alley is even a lot to her. And so it kind of brings you back to like, damn. like 35 bucks. That was a lot back then.
01:13:11
Speaker
And now you think of 35 bucks and that's, and that's your like subscription to like ah Netflix or whatever. So it's just, it's, it's a funny to think about these kinds of things. And then it's also to weave in the story of,
01:13:24
Speaker
um the cops and how they think that is Andy behind all of this? And like for a second early on in the movie, you think maybe like, is this Andy? Is he just making all this up? And then you, yeah yeah you go quickly.
01:13:39
Speaker
It's revealed that it's not, but like there is a, there is like a weird, like, um back of your mind itch that's like, ooh, is this kid? But then you're you quick to remember, this is just the kid that just like made his mom breakfast in bed. Come on, it's not him. like and god Made his mom breakfast in bed and spilled everything.
01:13:58
Speaker
I got to tell you that making breakfast as a, i I am not a, I am not a clean freak, but I am a neat freak. Oh man. That scene made me so itchy and squirm in my pants. Cause I was like, well now we have to clean the entire apartment.
01:14:14
Speaker
Oh, my God. if There's there's a stuff everywhere. And I'm like, oh, man. like God bless the child. But i I would definitely be the kind of dad who would be like, let me teach you how you will never do this again. Yeah. Let's do this together next time. Yes.
01:14:28
Speaker
um I do feel very, very bad for Maggie. i think that she's kind of the... I don't know. I feel like she's kind of the throwaway character in the movie, but also I feel really bad because she wasn't that bad. Like she was just trying to like watch a kid for her. No, she was fine. Like she, and she's like such like a, she's such like that particular woman of that time.
01:14:50
Speaker
Like she, like that there that was just like the, the, the woman buddies. Like that's, that's that that's exactly how it was in the eighties. And I just, I kind of love that. Yeah. And she's just trying to do her friend a favor by watching her kid on his birthday of all times. And I i love i love the way they they both talk to the boss at Carson's. like Yeah. just got I haven't said the word Carson's in a long time, referring to Carson Perry Scott.
01:15:16
Speaker
um But like, you know, ah ah the mom's what's the mom's name? Duh. I can't give her name right now. Karen. Karen's boss at Carson's at the jewelry counter is just such a dick. He's so dry. Yeah. And they're just, they're both mouthing off to him and I'm just like, Oh my God, I would fire these people if they were my employees and a heartbeat. It's so funny.
01:15:34
Speaker
Well, that's the thing about retail is that, um, uh, nobody wants you want to do. so yeah, exactly. what what what are you going do if you do fire them?
Critique of 'Child's Play' and Racial Stereotypes
01:15:41
Speaker
Um, the one thing, if I'm going to give criticism to the movie is the one thing that I think is a little weird is the death of the, um, the, the, the, the voodoo practitioner.
01:15:54
Speaker
Um, I don't like that whole thing with the voodoo doll. And like, I get it. Like, that's how he got into the body of Chucky. But like, I don't really get like the vindictiveness towards that character of Charles Lee Ray. And the whole voodoo doll of it all kind of throws me a little bit out of the movie.
01:16:16
Speaker
Um, yeah, fair enough. Just because it's it's not expected. I mean, everything up to that point was very practical. I mean, it was like, you know, we pushed the one woman out of the, we pushed Maggie out of the window and we blew up a house with the the gas and like, it's all very practical. So when you bring in that voodoo aspect of the voodoo doll, I was like, huh, I don't remember this.
01:16:36
Speaker
late So I don't know how you felt about that. Yeah, I mean, I get it. mean, and I think, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't go back to what I was talking about earlier, which is sort of like the this ah demonization of like voodoo style things. Right.
01:16:52
Speaker
And like, you know, maybe one of the things that this movie does wrong um is that it has a magical black person in it. Do you know what I mean? Who has talked about that in the next Right. Who has a who has a Caribbean accent and this and that. I mean, like, you know, that's maybe not the best thing. But I mean, look, we've talked about this a number of times with a number of different ah horror films ah from from all over the the the the the different eras.
01:17:17
Speaker
Um, which is, it's a product of its time. And so like, it, it, it makes perfect sense in the, um, it makes perfect sense in the late eighties that the, that, that, that the origin of this magic is coming from a magic black man.
01:17:33
Speaker
And like today that would be obviously stupidly offensive. But for this movie, it works for, you know, for all intents and purposes. It's it's not that it it's not that it's great that it works, but it just kind of has to.
01:17:46
Speaker
um i don't think it takes me out maybe as much as it does for you. But um but I mean, like, come on, the voodoo doll thing is a little bit silly. Yeah. Yeah. um A couple of things in this movie that I wanted to bring up is I think the most iconic scene in the movie is the battery scene.
01:18:06
Speaker
um I think that that's The reveal to Karen is awesome. That Chucky is not what he seems is done so well. Oh, so well.
01:18:18
Speaker
Because up until that point, like most movies would have said something like, oh, make sure you put the batteries in or make sure they would have like weaved that into like the the the the story because like You as an audience are meant to like have a MacGuffin, you know what i mean?
01:18:37
Speaker
And in this movie, they don't talk anything about it. So when those batteries drop out of the box, you're like, oh, holy shit, I haven't even thought about that. Like how he's alive, like are how he's functioning.
01:18:49
Speaker
And so that reveal combined with her being like... if you don't talk, I'm going to throw you in the fire. And then he you know turns his head around and just starts. You stupid bitch. Yeah. It's one of my favorite parts of the movie.
01:19:01
Speaker
You stupid bitch. You whore. You slut. i but I'll teach you to fuck with me. Like that's like what he says. It's awful, but it's also so fucking funny to see a doll say this. Like, oh my God.
01:19:13
Speaker
Well, and it's also so funny because it's like the most innocent character of the movie. with Right. Yes, totally. um And so I just think that that reveal is so iconic when it comes to like movies. love it.
01:19:25
Speaker
And i I was pleasantly surprised that it still paid off on this rewatch of of just like being like, Damn, that is a good reveal that he is not who he is. You know, you you you've got a great storyteller in Don Mancini. And Don Mancini's original script was titled Batteries Not Included. And then it later got changed to Blood Buddy.
01:19:47
Speaker
And so, you know, even if for Don Mancini, he knew that that was going to be such a great reveal when when it when it was done correctly. And he got it right. Yeah. um The other part that I always am echoing back to is the reveal to Chris Sarandon as well. It's like when Chucky's in his backseat. And that that I will say that that scene does frustrate me a little bit because I'm like, dude, you need to hit the brakes.
01:20:12
Speaker
You need to hit the brakes. Please just drive, man. Yeah. um But I do love that whole scene. And I i do always get a little bit... um worked up about the knife coming up through the seat.
01:20:25
Speaker
Oh, Jesus. Right by his fucking nuts, man. Yeah. um And so one thing I noticed on this time around that I kind of hadn't clocked before is that this series of events, this, this like whole movie takes place in three days. Just like Jesus.
01:20:42
Speaker
Just like Jesus. but Way to bring it up. Right before Easter. um No, but like it's just insane to think about like how upended these people's lives were in just three days.
01:20:56
Speaker
Truly. And the other thing that I hadn't really clocked before, because when you think... When you think about child's play, you think about, oh, it's a doll causing havoc, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah You don't realize that in this first movie, they fucking go balls to the wall with the action in this oh yeah first one.
01:21:14
Speaker
They blow up the toy store. They blow up a house. Yeah. Like they they have that whole car wreck scene. Like there is a lot of fucking action in this movie that I honestly did not remember was so crazy for an 88 minute long movie about a killer doll. Yes, for real.
01:21:35
Speaker
um one of my One of my favorite of all time, one of my favorite quotes is ah when Chucky is burning or is about to be burned to death in the in the fireplace.
01:21:46
Speaker
And he goes, Andy, we're friends till the end. and then Andy goes, this is the end, friend. Get him.
01:21:56
Speaker
Get him. God, I love that kid. And you know what? On on this particular watch, i I was really struck with how good Alex Vincent was. He's a very good child actor. yeah So good, especially, you know, when he's when he's in the um the the institution and he can look through the through the bar window and he sees Chucky coming and he's trying to get the doctor to come to let him out because he knows that Chuck is coming to kill him, obviously.
01:22:19
Speaker
And he's he's weeping. i mean, and you can tell this kid's not faking it like he is actually crying and he is really terrified. And, you know, look, some some kid actors are just not as good at being believable.
01:22:33
Speaker
Alex Vincent did a fantastic job at that age. Just really wonderful work. I think that there's a famous story that Don Mancini feels bad about is that he told um Alex Vincent to think about like his dead dog, I think was the, and like, that's what made him so work. Cause he like real legit was worked up.
01:22:53
Speaker
And like, and I think there's like interviews from Don Mancini saying like, Oh, I'm glad that performance is there, but I feel really bad that I'm, that child that way i get it but you know what god damn if it didn't work because it fucking worked that's for sure yeah when he when he's when he's begging for that doctor to to come and let him out it's it is it it is heart definitely breaks your heart yeah um but yeah that's that's child's play i i just do one thing though andrew before we move into the the final part of this is i did i did not know this john lithgow was considered to do charles lee ray
01:23:29
Speaker
Okay, well, he did go on to do the Trinity Killer. Yeah, but like, oh, it just would have been, it would have been so different with John Lithgow. I can't imagine him as the person. Thank God they made the choice in Brad Dourif.
01:23:41
Speaker
Yeah, I... I love John Lithgow in most things, but when, but like when you try to like, ah i just listen, I can i was really, I really, really hated the Pet Sematary remake.
01:23:54
Speaker
And I just can't get, I can't get his depiction of Judd out of my head. could never, don't know. You know what, with Judd, he had the look at least, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:07
Speaker
Just not, not the, he's, he's no 1980s Judd. No, he's not. Yeah. But anyway, that does it for child's play here at fraggy. The 13th horror podcast, we judge on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. Maddie, what do you give child's play?
01:24:25
Speaker
ah You know what? I gave it a six, but I'm going to give it just a little bump up. I'm giving it a six and a half. I really love this movie. There's so much going on for it. it It was the beginning, as you mentioned earlier, of a franchise that has just lasted for so long and has done so well and has been so successful.
01:24:41
Speaker
Chucky, it's hard to imagine. It's hard to imagine life without Chucky. I'll be honest. like I can't imagine this character not existing. And so I don't know. I just I for for somebody who was so terrified of this movie when I was young that now in my adulthood, i can watch it and really, really love it. I just think it's a it's a it's a killer movie. I love it.
01:25:02
Speaker
Cool. I'm going to give it a six. And I said, man, this movie gets better every time I watch it. It's so Chicago. It's so nostalgic. And it's so Chris Sarandon.
01:25:13
Speaker
Well, that does it for Child's Play. We'll be right back with our next film of the episode, Annabelle. John, wake up. What? Next door, I heard a scream. Stay here. I'll check it out.
01:25:25
Speaker
John? Is everything all right? Oh my God, you're covered in blood. Go back inside. It's not mine. It's not. Go back inside. Call the ambulance right now. Go!
01:25:36
Speaker
I like your dogs.
01:25:50
Speaker
You survived. You don't come out the other side of something like this weaker. What is there left to be scared of?
'Annabelle' and Religious Themes
01:25:56
Speaker
This is the last of them. How did that get in there? I swear I threw it out. Things must have got mixed up.
01:26:02
Speaker
There, she fits right in. Come to mommy. Come to mommy. Come to mommy.
01:26:18
Speaker
Chububub Chububub Chububub
01:26:38
Speaker
are
01:26:57
Speaker
There are things happening that that I can't explain. we should talk to someone. I don't think what you're experiencing is a ghost.
01:27:12
Speaker
demons can attach themselves to objects.
01:27:18
Speaker
What do do? Protect your family.
01:27:30
Speaker
are you
01:27:44
Speaker
One, two, Annabelle's coming for you. Oh, wait, wrong franchise. This is Annabelle. Maddie, talk to us all about Annabelle. Before The Conjuring, there was Annabelle.
01:27:56
Speaker
A couple begins to experience terrifying supernatural occurrences involving a vintage doll shortly after their home is invaded by satanic cultists. Annabelle was directed by John Leonetti, written by Gary Dauberman, produced and distributed by Warner Brothers.
01:28:14
Speaker
Mia is played by Annabelle Wallace. Isn't that interesting? John, pardon me, is played by Ward Horton. So sexy. Father Perez played by Tony Amendola and Evelyn played by Alfred Woodard. And look, there's a lot of other people, but these are the main people. Got it.
01:28:29
Speaker
ah Films rated R, 99 minutes long, made in the USA, filmed in Los Angeles, $6.5 million dollar budget, brought in $257 million. dollars That's lot of money.
01:28:40
Speaker
Released September 29th, 2014. Not a first-time watch for either of us. Andrew, tell me about this watch for you. Yeah, so I remembered when this came out, I really thought that this movie was not very good and pretty boring.
01:28:55
Speaker
And like, listen, are there times when I still stand by that? Yeah, but I think I've softened a little bit on this one, on this watch. And so watching it this time around, i did have some genuine times where I was like, oh this is kind of working for me. Like, this is kind of beating my drum, if you will.
01:29:16
Speaker
and um And we'll talk about kind of the areas that worked and kind of the areas that didn't you know later on in our review. ah But I mean, I think overall, I think I'm more on the positive of this one than I originally was. Do I still think it's kind of...
01:29:34
Speaker
Listen, i do I think the Conjuring universe in and of itself is kind of propagandish towards the church? Sure. but like I think that that's a product of being of this time that the movies take place in.
01:29:49
Speaker
um and I think that um it's a product of like what this is. um So that's kind of my initial thoughts on it. I still think that Annabelle the doll is a little over the top when it comes to like what it looks like and why it would ever be given to anyone as a gift. But fair enough um other than that, I think that like overall, I think this is kind of a spooky little movie.
01:30:12
Speaker
um And we'll talk about it after I get your initial thoughts, which are. Yeah, I i of yeah honestly much the same. i hadn't watched this since it first came out. um When when The Conjuring first came out, I was really into The Conjuring.
01:30:26
Speaker
Loved, loved, loved The Conjuring. Conjuring Part 2, very much less so. i remember being like, oh, that wasn't quite as good. Conjuring 3. I really, I've, I, I, I actively like dislike that film quite a bit. It really pissed me off. I'm not going to lie.
01:30:47
Speaker
And with Annabelle, uh, you know, i I was trying to think of how I felt about it at first. I think I was kind of like you. um I, I do think Annabelle is a little bit overdone. i think, uh, you know, pretty much everything that you just said.
01:31:00
Speaker
um and this time I felt the same. I was like, Oh, you know, actually, This isn't so bad. yeah i mean, what what i for me personally, as somebody who who is really into to religion and theology and blah, blah, blah, um I just think that the the religion and theology in the Conjuring universe is so cheap.
01:31:19
Speaker
It's just so cheap. And like, you know, it's um you you you would say it's kind of like skewed towards the church. I get what you're saying. i ah what i How I would clarify that is that it's skewed towards like good and evil.
01:31:32
Speaker
And it's just very surface level. Yeah, it's such it's such a ah kindergarten level under of ah understanding of like the the cosmic nature of the universe. And there's this and there's that. And it's just like, come on, this is ridiculous. It comes from the it comes from the thinking of if as long as you go to church every Sunday, everything will be fine. Yeah. And like, and that's, and that's just, that's just silly. And, and, um, uh, you know, I, I think modern theologians would not agree with that.
01:32:02
Speaker
And so like that this relies on a lot of fear. And I think that that's what the Warrens relied on was a lot of fear. yeah And like, look, I don't, discount that the Warrens did encounter some scary things in their I'm putting this in air quotes in their work.
01:32:20
Speaker
I'm just saying that they were they were very, very strange ah people, number one. And ah you shouldn't yeah you should you should take them with a big fucking grain of salt.
01:32:34
Speaker
Cause they didn't always know what they were talking about and they were kind of grifters. And so like there's the, the conjuring universe like cannot exist unless it continues to worship both of the Warrens.
01:32:46
Speaker
And, you know, like, like at the, at the end of this movie, there's a, a quote at the end. It's like evil will always be present. It can only be contained or something like that. And it was from, um, Oh, what's her name? The Warren's were named Lorraine. yeah Lorraine Warren. lorraine's And it's Lorraine Warren. So she's like, you know, fucking ah Leo Tolstoy writing writing the fucking Warren piece.
01:33:06
Speaker
And that's just not the case. Like they they they weren't that smart of people. They were just really good at understanding that people were really afraid of this and that and that they could grift by going to their homes and telling them things about this and that and whatever. and giving them some sort of milquetoast idea of what it might be. And there you go.
01:33:23
Speaker
And so that's what the conjuring universe continues to rely on. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Back to this movie, because I don't want to go to too far down that rabbit hole. um This, this movie, I think genuinely, I think this movie only works because Mia and John, Annabelle Wallace and Ward Horton,
01:33:40
Speaker
actually have some good chemistry together. They really do. And they depict like a healthy relationship. Exactly. And like, and this is one of the few where a healthy relationship is there, you know, like they, they have this, the normal sort of husband and wife stuff where they don't understand each other all the time, but like they work it out and they make sense of it. And like, they're cool.
01:34:02
Speaker
And they believe each other. That's yeah the most important part. I do have to be honest. Like it It is kind of nice to just see a couple that gets along.
01:34:13
Speaker
seriously. It's always a fucking married couple who hate each other secretly, but they love each other in person. it's i' ah Honestly, I'm kind of tired of that. and like i just It's just sort of a boring thing to keep exploring. I'm i'm tired of exploring it. You know what?
01:34:30
Speaker
If you don't like being married, then don't get married. i'm I'm tired of seeing it constantly explored in movies. Like enough. I get it straight people. Things are weird. And maybe you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. And that I don't know what else to tell you, but like enough.
01:34:47
Speaker
I've seen it enough. Do you know what i mean? and So like, And this one, I actually really was glad to see two people. And like you said, he believes her when when she comes out with all the stuff. There is no not believing. it's just there it is.
01:34:58
Speaker
And, you know, there's some churchy, some early Catholic stuff there. The priest is a bit of a goober. But like, I don't know, all that stuff, it I can just kind of overlook it and I can just go with it.
01:35:09
Speaker
what the The big problem that I have with the movie is that the doll doesn't even need to be there. Think about this. So the the ghost of so in the movie, there are these I forget there. I think the Higgins, it was like this husband and wife and they they go out and they're they're kind of like Charles Manson people and they just like kill people and they they kill. that it the That's the neighbors. the Oh, that's right. That's it's right. Yeah. The Higgins are the neighbors, their daughter basically ran away from home and joined a cult. And now they came back to sacrifice those people to bring on the demon, which I had written down, but I don't see it right now. Whatever it is. It's it's the demon it in the conjuring universe. And so like this is this is all happening or whatever or whatever. whatever
01:35:52
Speaker
So so during the the fracas where the police finally come and get there after the after they've attacked ah Mia and John, the disciples of the lamb. There you go. The cult. The blood, the blood from them like goes into the eyeball of Annabelle and then Annabelle, the doll becomes fucking haunted. And there you go. Conduit. Yeah. a Conduit. Right.
01:36:12
Speaker
But my thing is this, like the ghost is there very often when the doll is not there. And like stuff happens without the doll needing to be there.
01:36:23
Speaker
And I'm just kind of like, i mean, i get it, but like the they don't really need the doll. like i did yeah we We don't really get a good explanation for that.
01:36:34
Speaker
And I think that's kind of dumb. I think, you know, i i yeah I think it would be really cheesy. But like you were saying earlier, Annabelle is kind of a weird creation anyway. I wonder if they ever did explore like the doll actually doing something or or I don't know.
01:36:49
Speaker
i I just I wonder if this movie might have worked better if like the ghosts of them weren't there. I don't i't i don't know how it would have been done. I don't really know what I'm trying to to envision right now.
01:37:00
Speaker
but I think what you're saying is that you need to watch Annabelle Creation. and Well, you know, what what's funny is that I actually did start watching that this morning because i i realized I had not seen it. And like I knew we weren't going to talk about it, of course. but like you know Far better movie. and it It doesn't hurt to have a little bit more color for what you're talking about.
01:37:17
Speaker
And I only got like 15 minutes in because I had to go run somewhere. But anyways, I i digress. I just don't i don't think it fully works. It works because Annabelle's a freaky looking doll.
01:37:28
Speaker
you know, there does need to be some kind of conduit or whatever. i put that in air quotes, but like, you know, i don't know. like It kind of doesn't work at the same time. Well, I think like what we are trained because we've grown up with movies like child's play is we expect the doll to be the killer doll. We expect the doll to be moving or yeah being the, being the entity.
01:37:49
Speaker
Sure. And in this movie, it explores it as just like a vessel for something else. Um, um And i get i get what you're saying because the whole movie is concentrated on like slow pans of Annabelle's face or like slow bottom-up of Annabelle the doll. And so we're trained as are as ourselves to be like, well, the doll's going to move at some point, right? And then it never does except for when...
01:38:16
Speaker
yeah it It gets lifted up by the um by the demon at the at the one part and in the window. um But like I totally get what you're saying because like Annabelle in and of itself is not the villain. like The doll is not the villain. It's the demon that you know comes along.
01:38:36
Speaker
And so like it doesn't really work as like ah quote unquote like doll movie yeah because yeah they could have just been haunted by a toy box or by a jack in the box or anything like it could have gone to anything.
01:38:50
Speaker
um And so it doesn't necessarily work as like the structure that this movie wants you to take into context of like this really creepy doll you know what mean yeah agreed um and so ah yeah I totally get where you're coming from um I wanted to say something and then I kind of lost it um but oh oh this is the other part that made me kind of and laugh but cringe at the same time is like first off I don't get doll people I don't get action figure people like I don't get these people like I don't get collectors of this like you know if that brings you joy great but like this grown woman then has a room full of dolls makes no sense to me and then also i think it's so funny when she gets gifted Annabelle at first and she puts her up on the shelf next to the other dolls and she goes it's a perfect match and
01:39:42
Speaker
It's a perfect, like, ah like they all go together and she's definitely like twice as big as any other doll on that shelf. Well, I, what i i when I saw that, I was like, well, that it must be like a series of dolls.
01:39:54
Speaker
Like, but she's twice as big as on the other Because, because they kind of look like, like it was that like, it was that like a precursor of like the American girl dolls? You know what i mean? it' It's like.
01:40:06
Speaker
is I was wondering, like is that what she means there? Like she's been doing whatever, you know, i i think that's maybe that's it. I think that's us being a little gracious towards the movie. yeah i I do have to say, you know, what one thing that I did not like in this movie is Elfra Woodard the and the way that that that that she was used. I just think.
01:40:24
Speaker
I, I think that that's the, that's the, um that's math that's what, that's what makes the movie not work in my opinion yeah is this third party character that we introduce.
01:40:39
Speaker
Listen, I honestly think for all of its like weirdness and like of a time, all of the culture, all of like the first half of the movie before they move into the apartment building all works for me.
01:40:50
Speaker
Like it all works. Sure. It makes sense. It all makes sense. Like it all, like it, it ties it up in a nice little bow. And then they moved to this apartment building and then things start to go a little off the deep end because keep in mind, well, keep in mind also these people moved to an apartment building after they had lived in a single family house.
01:41:10
Speaker
Yeah. Sure. Who does that? Like he's only getting richer. He just went from medical school to residency. yeah So why would they live in an apartment building first off, first off, because it's California and like, and then, and then we get introduced to this character played by Alfre Woodard, who is used and abused in this movie for her for for her trauma.
01:41:34
Speaker
And I, a I just feel like it was a writer's problem that they couldn't solve on how to give the main characters a happy ending without sacrificing something. So we'll kill the black lady.
01:41:49
Speaker
I know. And it's just, it's so disheartening because it's, it's, It's really written off like really quick because she's supposed to have this like deep backstory about how she knows she was ah shouldn't have been driving because she was tired. She got in a car accident and it killed her daughter.
01:42:07
Speaker
And then she tried to commit suicide. But it did, you know, she was saved because of some God intervention where her daughter told her that she was supposed to be meant for something else.
01:42:19
Speaker
And what you're meant for is to sacrifice yourself for two upper middle class white people. but Well, yeah. I mean, fuck. Well, I mean, but, but, but, That that that goes back to you know what I was saying earlier. When you were saying like you know it it's sort of skews towards the church and I kind of clarified, I was like, well, it just kind of skews more towards right-wing bullshit.
01:42:38
Speaker
yeah That's exactly it. is that That's the way that right-wing people view black ladies, which is a semi-offensive term and I use it deliberately. They see them as mammies, right? And so like they see them as people who should be saving white people. That's your job, isn't it?
01:42:57
Speaker
And here's another thing that I didn't realize of thinking about right wing and this movie, blah, blah, blah, is in the credits, the executive producer, did you happen to catch who it is? No.
01:43:08
Speaker
Steven Mnuchin. Remember, do you remember who he is? That name sounds so familiar, but I'm not sure. Because he was the 77th United States secretary of the treasury under Donald Trump from 2017 to in the first cabinet of of Trump.
01:43:25
Speaker
And so that just like, and he's produced other things too. I, I did not know this about him at all. But when I saw that, I was like, hold on a minute. Steven fucking Mnuchin was producer on this movie. And I forget what the other ones are that he did, but I was like, aha, isn't that really interesting? Aha.
01:43:42
Speaker
Um, because like, it just, it just kind of makes sense. Doesn't it? Like a little bit. And like yeah all this stuff kind of goes together. And that's what I, I don't, I, It would be really fascinating to to delve in a little bit deeper into the creators around this whole universe.
01:43:58
Speaker
My guess is we would find a lot more right wing sort of ties to these movies. um Maybe I'll do that just for fun. and because it just might be kind of interesting.
01:44:10
Speaker
But i I bet I'm kind of correct on this. I just I have I have a hunch. An inkling. ah um A couple of other things in this movie. I thought it was really embarrassing that she named her daughter Leah and her name is Mia. yeah you You rhymed your own baby's name with your name. i think that's really gross and embarrassing. Yeah. and And also sometimes it sounded like he was calling the wife Leah and I was like, wait, they're not the same.
01:44:37
Speaker
What? What's going on But it is funny that the movie is called Annabelle starring Annabelle Wallace. Yeah. Pretty funny. um My favorite part with Alfre Woodard, though, is when she is in the Mia is in the bookstore and she's she's looking for a book on the occult.
01:44:57
Speaker
um But she doesn't want to disclose that because this is this late 60s and early 70s. And it's very, you know, ah panic, to satanic panic. And Alfre Woodard's like, you know, you can tell me what's going on. And then finally she's like, um listen, I'll be honest with you. I think my family's being haunted. And she just goes.
01:45:16
Speaker
Aisle 4. ah That was pretty funny. That's great. One little goof that I did call in this movie. Oh, really? Is um at the beginning of the movie when we have the cult attack.
01:45:30
Speaker
Okay. Mia goes to call 911. 911 didn't exist in the late 60s. Oh, that's very interesting.
01:45:41
Speaker
i'm Just a little goof. I'm just going to throw out the filmmakers that they... Maybe didn't think through. i don't think that the establishment of 9-1-1 was until the late 70s, if I remember correctly.
01:45:53
Speaker
God, imagine if 9-1-1 wasn't there. that's Yeah, you just had to memorize your local police station number. That's so fucked up. I mean, that comes from the time of like, think about like when a stranger calls when she has that. Yeah, sure.
01:46:05
Speaker
She has that list of phone numbers on, you know, the, the, i I think we had that when I was a kid, I kind of remember like a magnet that had like the police department, the fire department, poison control, like all that kind of stuff.
01:46:19
Speaker
So, um, but yeah, and then 911 kind of took over everything. Um, but yeah, I, i after you told me about that and you you kind of told me about the right wing stuff on this movie, it's becoming so plainly obvious. Oh, yeah, totally. That now I can't stop seeing it and it's making me like the movie more. all over place.
01:46:42
Speaker
like I mean, like you know, like i I still do like this movie. Like I think there's there's some really solid things in it. listen the elevator scene is price of admission.
01:46:53
Speaker
Like the elevator scene very scary. Like that whole part where she's running up the stairs and the demon is there that. That sells the movie for me as a horror movie. Although I am going to say one thing. If, if another movie maker puts in fingers by a sewing machine thing again, I'll shut the fucking movie off. If I wasn't watching it for this, I would have stopped watching it at the fucking sewing machine. Like, don't fuck with me on that shit.
01:47:18
Speaker
Don't fuck with me. And you know what? No one fucking needs that. No one. I don't care if you like body horror or not. No one needs fingers by the sewing machine. Do you understand? That's the new fucking rule. As someone who has had a needle go through my finger, it is not fun. no one no one fucking, because you know what? All you're doing is you're you're giving me anxiety, man, and I got enough.
01:47:38
Speaker
So yeah i don't mean I don't need that fucking shit. That scene with the popcorn and her at the sewing machine and like everything happening is very intense. I like got to give it to the filmmaker. I do want popcorn.
01:47:51
Speaker
You want that Jiffy Pop? I do. I want exactly that. That sounds really good. um did they even sell Jiffy Pop anymore? I don't know. i don't know. um But yeah, overall, listen, I didn't hate this movie as much as I thought I did.
Conclusion and Community Engagement
01:48:05
Speaker
And i so I genuinely enjoyed watching the movie. I'm just saying, and you're agreeing that, you know, there are some weird things going on and and not just in Annabelle, but in the whole Conjuring universe. And I think that people should be aware of that. Yeah. um And, you know, did you know?
01:48:20
Speaker
Go ahead. Go ahead. Did you notice that there was in at the end scene? It's almost an after credit scene where Annabelle is in the resale shop. Did you happen to notice another prop in that shot? No, I didn't. What was it?
01:48:34
Speaker
There was a Raggedy Ann doll a shop. And that's actually what the Annabelle doll is in real life. It's true. um So. And, you know, just to let people just remind people, we have been to the Conjuring House before. We have.
01:48:51
Speaker
um You can go back to episode 100. Wasn't <unk> it Oh, was it? It was our five-year anniversary. So whenever that was. Whatever that was, it was a couple years ago. um But we we went to Connecticut when we were on for our five-year anniversary. We went did a little spooky tour of New England, and it was really cool.
01:49:09
Speaker
And one of the things we got to do was to go to the Conjuring House in Connecticut, and we got to go inside. And um it it is a very, very spooky. And i of all of us, me, me Andrew, and Michael,
01:49:22
Speaker
I think we all kind of felt the same way that like there's there is something fucking weird in that place. And I never, ever want to go back there in my life. Yeah, I don't know what it is.
01:49:33
Speaker
And I don't even know if it's like what The Conjuring movie yeah was about. But like, there's definitely ah an energy there that's just not pleasant. Yeah, agreed. Well, Andrew, what did you rate Annabelle?
01:49:46
Speaker
I gave Annabelle a four. I think it's better than average. um and But I said, um it's better than I remember, but it still reeks of church propaganda. And I really, really hate the conclusion. Yeah, i I had given it a four and a half. But actually, I'm going to bring it down to a four, too, just because of the right wing stuff, which really, really bothers me.
01:50:03
Speaker
um And I said, you know what? Look, this is way better than it should have been, truth be told. And and as I said, you know, multiple times in this conversation, I didn't hate watching it. I really didn't. Cool. Well, that will bring us to the end of horror in the movies.
01:50:17
Speaker
We'll take a quick break and close out the show. dante you stay chante you stay chante you stay chante you stay chante you stay well that does it for episode god a hundred and forty two episodes with while this show absolutely wild um over seven years which is crazy Um, but at the end of every episode, we play a little game and you know what? It was about time to bring back one of the Stallworths, one of the originals, the original, and that's hottie of the episode.
01:50:52
Speaker
Maddie, tell us a little bit about how we came to this grand old game. Well, you see, we're gay. um And because we're gay, we find men attractive. We lust.
01:51:03
Speaker
Exactly. And so because of that, there in things that we watch, there are men we find attractive. That's really it. So what we do in this game is we just each choose one person that we think is the most attractive out of these two films that we watched.
01:51:18
Speaker
Pretty simple. Cool. What's your hottie of the episode? Easy. Mine is the husband in Annabelle, John, who's played by Ward Horton. He is just my clean cut kind of boy next door, good looking guy. um And he's going to be a doctor.
01:51:39
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. So he's, you know, he can, I can be a housewife. um And, you know, look, you we don't see him naked at all in this movie. But I just know he has a great butt. I just know that he does.
01:51:53
Speaker
I just yeah absolutely know in my heart that he does. For the amount of time that we show people in bed in Annabelle, it's a shame we didn't even get a shirtless scene. Yeah, for real. I'm i'm literally Googling Ward Horton naked right now.
01:52:07
Speaker
all right. While you do that, my hottie of the episode is Detective Norris himself, Chris Sarandon. I'm pretty sure he's been on my list before. what He has. He absolutely has. When we did Fright Night, I'm pretty sure I picked him as my hottie of the episode. It makes sense.
01:52:22
Speaker
I don't know what it is about Chris Sarandon. He just gets my my my clock a ticking. So I think he's a very handsome fella. And I think he's great in all these early to late 80s horror movies. so if you give If you give Andrew an 80s honk, he's going to be happy. It's it's a guarantee.
01:52:39
Speaker
And he wears like a cable knit sweater. Come on. Get on with it. Well, folks, look, thank you so much for being with us on our latest episode of Frege the 13th Horror Podcast. Look, before we let you go, yeah as always, we want to remind you that we are a proud, independent podcast.
01:52:54
Speaker
And that means that we are not supported by a network. We're not supported by ads. We're just supported by you. um and so, look we as Andrew said just just a little bit earlier, we've been doing this for so over seven years, which is amazing, I think.
01:53:08
Speaker
And ah look, the reason why we keep doing it is because of you. We keep doing it because it's fun to come together, the two of us, um from thousands of miles apart and from many hours of of time zone difference apart, too, to create twice a month these episodes that are all for you. And and and on average, our episodes are are basically two hours each.
01:53:30
Speaker
So we've created at this point, you know, well, with with with other things we've done to well over 150 episodes, well over. And so literally at this point, probably 400 hours plus of stuff that we have done.
01:53:46
Speaker
At least. And we have literally done that for y'all. um And we do it because we love to do it. I think, you know, when Andrew and i first started the podcast way back when, ah over seven years ago, we did it and we've said the story before, but but but for new people, we started it um because we thought it would just be fun to to do what we normally did, which was talking about politics and talking about scary things.
01:54:09
Speaker
um And we we never would have imagined um the community that we actually built instead. And you know we we set out to create a podcast. Instead, we created a community.
01:54:19
Speaker
And ah we only did that because there were all of you out there who were who were waiting for something like this, something like the the thing that we create all the time. um And that's the reason why why we keep going is because number one, it's fun for us to come together as friends. But number two, because you guys like it and and it gives you a sense of of of having you know a couple of pals in your car or or in your living room or or you know wherever you listen to us.
01:54:45
Speaker
um That are hanging out with you. And you know what? We love to hang out with you. It's really cool. And we love you. We want nothing more than for all of you to to to to prosper and to be good and to be healthy and to be safe. And and it's why we we we talk about you know the deep things, but also the fun things.
01:55:02
Speaker
And so look, if you want to help us keep doing this, you absolutely can. Because guess what? It does actually take money to create a podcast, believe it or not. um So you can do it in a couple of ways. And first, you're going to go to our website, which is www.frygay13.com slash support.
01:55:18
Speaker
And once you're there, you'll see a link to our Patreon and a link to our merch. So either of those things are going to help us out in big ways. um And if if you if you do decide to become a Patreon, to become a patron on Patreon, it's real easy. Girl, it's a dollar a month. like that's it and like you can do more if you want but we've said this before we're actually okay if you don't like i right i'm i'm actually really cool if all you do is a dollar um because that's a that's a perfect amount and that dollar you have no idea how much that really really helps us because with enough of you it helps us cover all of our costs for the show and that's something really really special and then we can keep keep on going with it so
01:55:57
Speaker
Thank you to all of our current patrons. Thank you to everyone who's been a patron before. And thank you to all the people who are thinking about it right now about becoming a patron. So thanks very much. Yeah. And if you can't do it monetarily, you can do it by leaving a review.
01:56:11
Speaker
That's all i'll say about that. Cause I've said, we've said, I love of God, just go fucking leave one. But also the other thing that you need to fucking do this weekend right now at this very moment is you need to go out there and you need to get slayed.