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EPISODE 135: FAMILIES ARE TERRIFYING
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EPISODE 135: FAMILY IS TERRIFYING!
Families are complicated. And they are terrifying. Join us to hear more about generational trauma, the Manson family, and our own stories of familial ties.
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE and AMERICAN GOTHIC offer two families that are… well, pretty fucked up.
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Frage the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frage13.com.
Exploring the Drag Adoption Agency
00:00:11
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the Drag Adoption Agency. Hi, yeah, but I was interested in potentially starting the adoption process, but what is drag? Well, you've come to the right place, the domestic rehabilitation of adult girls. Adult? Oh no, we we were we were thinking of it of adopting kids.
00:00:31
Speaker
Why adopt a kid when you can have a girl? Well, I guess it doesn't hurt to look. What exactly is a g-g-girl? earl Here at drag we specialize in finding lost drag queens a new home. Why would they need a new home? Aren't they adults?
00:00:47
Speaker
You see, drag queens have unique needs. They need space to slay, plenty of fresh food and wigs, and many hours of death drop practice. You think you'd be up for that? Oh, I don't know if I have enough room for slaying. And and how how many wigs do they need?
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, if you're not really ready for a girl, we can refer you to our lips department. Do you happen to have a U-Haul? Lips? Yes, Lesbian Improvement Procurement Society.
Horror and Holidays
00:01:15
Speaker
It's episode 135. Family is terrifying.
00:01:21
Speaker
I am the writing on the wall, the whisper. in the
00:01:43
Speaker
Doubters, the doomsday, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong.
New Year Reflections and Resolutions
00:02:12
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning sometimes this but
00:02:52
Speaker
ah t Welcome to Fry Gator 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Matty and I'm Andrew. And listen, welcome to 2025. While we're at it, it's our first episode of the new year, episode 135 of the podcast that talks about horror, horror in real life and in the movies from a queer perspective. And we are happy to be back with you.
00:03:18
Speaker
in this new year after our little hiatus in December, which was needed for both of us. um Back with you nice and fresh now, ready to tackle a new year of terror and horror and awful things that just keep happening in the world. As we've said before, we'll probably never run out of source material, quite frankly.
00:03:38
Speaker
um Andrew, how's it going? How's the New Year treating you so far? It's pretty good. It's a ah brisk 20 degrees here in ah Chicago this weekend. So we're fresh into January weather. ah But yeah, things are going good. Holidays are over. Thank the Lord. Yeah. A lot goes on during the holidays. I can only imagine people that have kids that would have to go through all of that. ah So kudos to you all for putting on some great holidays. I'm sure they were wonderful and I'm sure your kids will look back on them with fondness. but That's for us. terror You know, i'm I'm glad that they're overdue. um I'll tell you, like, Andrew and I, andrew and i of course, were talking to to to each other before we started today and he was like, how were your holidays? I was like,
00:04:24
Speaker
You know, I worked a whole fucking lot. I did. um But i'm I mostly thought that the holidays are over because I'll tell you what else I did. I ate and drank anything I wanted to. That was basically my rule. And like I i baked some cookies that were really good. I ate a fuck ton of them. I made this thing. I made that thing. I went to this dinner. I went to that dinner. Spent way too much money. In the end, it was all good. But I'm kind of glad to be getting back to normal now. That feels pretty good to me.
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, I got to tell you, I killed it on the potato game this year, which many good potato dishes like what I made ah cheesy potatoes, which ah can be also called funeral potatoes. And then also I made ah melting potatoes is where not you put like kind of like scallop them and then put them into muffin tins with their own herbs and butter. And then you just kind of like.
00:05:14
Speaker
It's like your own little stack of scalloped potatoes, but it's crispy on the outside, gooey on the inside, and it is delicious. That sounds really nice. I want that. andrew Andrew does make good potatoes. I can vouch for this.
00:05:28
Speaker
Uh, but yes, I too am ready. You know, before the holidays, me and Michael had made a pact to each other that every Tuesday and Thursday, no matter what time we got home from work, we would get in the car and go to the gym. And so we're now like getting back to that and good for you yeah get back into a routine. So that's, they say it takes 30 days to you know get a habit or lose a habit. So we're trying to do that. That's good. That's wonderful. And you know, like, look, we're, we're all.
00:05:54
Speaker
I think, too, it's a good reminder to just be kind to ourselves. You know, we've all but we all went through a lot of shit in 2024. You know, like I'm kind of remind time. Let's just be let's be nice to myself this year in whatever way I can.
Family Dynamics in Horror
00:06:11
Speaker
Speaking of ah craziness and being nice to yourself and things that you learn that your family doesn't necessarily teach you. That's the um that's the topic of our show today. Yeah. Families and how how they can be really, really terrifying. Now listen, the other side of this too is that families can be really lovely. um And I happen to know some people that are really weird and like their families are so incredibly not toxic. I often wonder how are you real? Do you know what I mean? But for most of us,
00:06:44
Speaker
um There's at least a bit of toxicity, and we thought it would be a good idea to tackle this topic for this episode. And we've paired it with two wonderful movies that that meet it perfectly. Andrew, what are they? Yes, we'll be tackling finally, because I feel like this we should have done this a long time ago. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre from 1973 or four. I can't remember. um And American Gothic, which has been on my list for a while because I knew Maddie would just love
Understanding Childhood Trauma
00:07:13
Speaker
it. Uh, yeah, this is the God, you know, it, it, it won an Oscar for, for the best, for best picture back in the day. So looking forward to speaking with you about that. And Andrew, when it comes to, um, to families, lots of ways to come at the topic. One of the things that I was thinking about.
00:07:30
Speaker
was I was thinking back to my time when I worked in academia and I worked for a graduate school and the graduate school worked ah with people who worked with children from zero to eight years old, right? And so our clients were a little bit of everybody. that they were ah They were clinicians, they were doctors, nurses, they were ah preschool directors, they were teachers, you name it. Anyone that worked with kids zero to eight years old. And one of the things that I got to do and this is a long time ago now, um but I got to bring in the author of a study that is the, I believe it still is, that the longest longitudinal study ever done on human beings. And it was called the ACEs, A-C-E lowercase S. And what that stands for is Adverse Childhood Experiences. And so the ACEs study, what this basically talked about
00:08:27
Speaker
And at at the end of the day, what it's really about is like generational trauma, right? Sure. The ACEs study basically says this, and it's it's not telling you how it happens or, or, or even why it happens. It's just observing the phenomenon ah early in your childhood.
00:08:43
Speaker
If you have a certain number of what they call adverse childhood experiences occur to you, the more of those you have, the more likely that you will manifest some sort of health problem later on in your life, right?
00:09:00
Speaker
And so like if you think about this, this isn't too hard to get, right? um ah on On a very basic level, non-scientific. We all might agree here, and I'm i'm being really general right now, but like the the child of an ah of an alcoholic might be more prone to become an alcoholic than the child of somebody who is not an alcoholic.
00:09:21
Speaker
Right. Sure. Or, you know, the child of ah of a smoker, they might become a smoker too. It's it's that kind of thing. Yeah. And so it's it's it's all of that. and And adverse childhood experiences could be a whole range of things. It could be something as drastic as homelessness.
00:09:37
Speaker
It could be something as, and I'm i'm i'm using this in ah in a very general term once again, it could be something as banal as like, you know, your, your parent died or your grandparent died or something like that. But if you stack up enough of them, what this study did prove is that, yeah, you have enough of those and you, but you're going to probably be kind of fucked up later on in life. Um, and so that's something that's always really stuck with me. Um, and having, having the author of the study who, by the way, was a total asshole. He was very rude. I'll never forget that either.
00:10:06
Speaker
Um, but having him out for this huge event that we had, um, in the, in a suburb of Chicago, it was really interesting to hear about this and to understand a bit more about how children develop into adults and what that really looks like. And then that just got me thinking about intergenerational trauma in general. sure Um, and so that's what I thought I would talk about. Um, and so, you know, once again, like what, what is generational intergenerational trauma, you might hear it said either way, intergenerational or generational.
00:10:35
Speaker
um You might break it down like this, right? So it might start off with someone who experiences trauma, like abuse, they can suffer from lifelong effects. Effects like anxiety, shame, depression, substance abuse, and risky behavior. When that person has children, the impact of the trauma can affect them. Parents may develop a neglectful, authoritative style or project their trauma on their children.
00:11:00
Speaker
As a result, the child develops a trauma due to growing up with a traumatized parent. This is intergenerational trauma as the effects of trauma are passed on through generations.
00:11:11
Speaker
So you'll often hear about like this type of trauma in like Holocaust survivors, for example, and that gets passed down from generation to generation. And now we're, you know, we're, we're a good three or maybe even four generations from the survivors. So, you know, even in that, in that fourth generation removed, you know, even they will talk about the the generational trauma that they still suffer from, you know, they're like great, great grandparents who were, you know, maybe in a, in a concentration camp or something like that.
00:11:41
Speaker
um Lots of ways to think about this. um but There was a really good article that I found too from USA Today. It's a pretty short one, so I'll read it to you. um And it's from last year. Well, it's from two years ago now, I guess, from 2023, from an author named Joy Ashford. um And the title of this is, What is Generational Trauma? An expert gets into how families inherit trauma and how to cope. And so what Joy Ashford says is that according to many therapists and mental health professionals,
00:12:09
Speaker
Trauma isn't derived from one time extreme life events like a tragic tornado, a school shooting or a car crash. Many people have reported they also experienced generational trauma. They suffer from the lingering effects of intense short term or chronic stressors felt by their family or community.
00:12:27
Speaker
um And Gwendolyn Van Zandt, who is a nonprofit CEO, a member of the Trauma Research Foundation's board of directors, ah she says, I define generational trauma as incidents that live in our body.
00:12:39
Speaker
and in our emotional psyche, that we have not necessarily experienced ourselves, and we have passed on through family experiences. So for for Gwendolyn Van Zandt, she says that people are often un unaware of the signs of generational trauma, which can be depression, anxiety, or sometimes distrust of certain groups or institutions. Her nonprofit, Bridge Inc., worked with vaccine-hesitant people during the COVID-19 pandemic.
00:13:09
Speaker
and she witnessed some of the effects of generational trauma firsthand. This is so interesting. Van Zant, who was an African American, described how vaccine hesitancy among some African American communities she worked with came from a distrust stemming from traumatic experiences with the medical community from current and earlier generations.
00:13:29
Speaker
And she says if ah if an african-american for example is fortunate enough to know the history of medicine and the way we have been specimens and objectified or we haven't been told the full truth about medical processes and their impact the trauma there is related to real violence real oppression.
00:13:47
Speaker
Gertrude Lyons, EDD, who is a life coach who works specifically with mothers and families and focuses on women's empowerment. In her practice, Lyons has seen how traumas suffered by a mother, even in childhood, can have a direct impact on her children later in life. One of Lyons' clients grew up in foster care and suffered emotional and physical abuse as a child. She felt like she didn't deserve care. She didn't get any kind of proper care growing up, she explained.
00:14:17
Speaker
As an adult, Lion says her client often feels like her self-care, her emotional needs, her physical needs are really unimportant. Isn't that interesting? The mindset led the client to an emotionally abusive relationship in adulthood, something that's had a lingering impact on her children. And this reminds me as a side note,
00:14:39
Speaker
reminds me of what my therapist used to tell me when I talked to her about my ex-fiancee or about this thing or that thing. And she said, you're always going to go to what feels like home. You'll always go to what feels like home. I've never forgotten that. So how can we address generational trauma? To Mariah Rooney, an experienced trauma therapist and social work professor, conventional one-on-one therapy isn't always the right way to help those suffering from this type of trauma.
00:15:05
Speaker
Rooney works with a lot of adopted children or children in foster care who have experienced rejection or disconnection from parents. Some queer children have been rejected by parents who never unlearned the homophobia in their own their own parents taught them. ah Other kids have been adopted by a family of a different race and feel severed from communities of others who look like them.
00:15:26
Speaker
Those kids don't just need talk therapy, Rooney says, but safe groups where they can heal from the rejection or loss they've experienced. Trauma disconnects us from ourselves, she says, from our bodies, from other people, from community, from a sense of belonging.
00:15:42
Speaker
In order to really heal, we have to experience safety and connection with other people. Van Zandt agrees that community is often crucial in addressing generational trauma, and she says a lot of generational trauma comes from societal spaces, adding that people can find healing in different intentional groups that counteract those traumas.
00:16:02
Speaker
Van Zandt has built community healing spaces like a solidarity meeting house that includes places for women to get their natural hair done and a community kitchen. And she says it's producing results already. People are feeling more heard and seeing their needsad net and ah seeing their needs met. That is one of the best ways to move through some of that generational trauma and to disrupt it.
00:16:26
Speaker
So that's a little bit about generational or intergenerational trauma. I just think it's so interesting. Um, but it makes me think about like, my own generational trauma. deep do you first do you think Do you think you have any, Andrew? Oh my God, are you joking? Of course. No, um I definitely see this and I've had to work through a lot of it. I don't necessarily have the um closest ah extended family. yeah We went through a lot of tragedy when I was around
00:17:00
Speaker
I'd say like 13, 14, 15, right around that area within my family that really severed a lot of relationships and they have never really truly healed from that. And then therefore I don't feel close to my family necessarily, my extended family that is.
00:17:18
Speaker
But then getting into a relationship with Michael who has such a large ah connected family that always want that always wants to get together and always wants to do things together, that took a lot of push and pull for me to get comfortable with. I bet. um you know i Thankfully, we've been together for over 10 years now. And so it's it's it's taken me a while, but I'm finally comfortable in those spaces of where like,
00:17:43
Speaker
yeah i Because I think like for a long long time, I felt judged by them a lot of like why I wasn't close with my family. And that was really uncomfortable for me. But over time, you know you you develop new feelings and you develop new standards of what your family should look like. And you know it starts to starts to feel a little bit better. So I think that, yeah, there's definitely some validation to what you just read, um especially in my own life. What about you?
00:18:13
Speaker
Oh, God, yeah, entirely. I mean, like, I think about like, um I think about my mom, you know, and my mom, her her mom died when she was very young. I think my mom was 13. Right. um My dad died when I was very young, 15. And so, you know, but my mom's dad was I never met the man, of course, because he died way, way, of way before I was born. He was born in in the 18 fucking 90s, for God's sake.
00:18:41
Speaker
um ah He was not a very nice guy. And I'm sure you know there are things that probably happened in my mom's childhood that she's never told us about. you know right And um it's when I think about my own my own mother and how she raised us and you know sort of the things that I can see, just you know just just even thinking about those tidbits that I've given you right there, it's not hard to see that that trauma at play. And you know and and like like I said,
00:19:09
Speaker
you know i I had to go to therapy to to learn that, oh, not every family does these things. right you know not ah Not every family yells at each other all the time to to like get their way or to like make or like make a point. Not every family does this and every family does that.
00:19:25
Speaker
And so the chaos of a lot of what I grew up with, even you know even though it was often a lovely chaos, you know it was fun, it was boisterous, it was big, it was huge, and everyone was always so turned on. But like you know I had to learn, oh, that's not what everybody grew up with. And and also, I'm drawn to that chaos. i That chaos to me feels like home.
00:19:47
Speaker
But you know and i'm ah I'm a person who can think for himself, right? So think about all the people who don't have that, and I really mean this, I'm not trying to be mean, the people who don't have that capacity, the people who have never learned how to learn, the people who have never gone to therapy in their lives, they don't really know that. You only know what you know when you know it, right right? And so when you don't know, you don't know. And so you just keep doing it and doing it because you don't know. And so it's it's amazing. i I feel grateful that I finally met a therapist in my life who was like, hey, I wonder if you're doing that because of this. And that just, it just turned my brain around on so many things. So I feel fortunate that I think I've been able to break out of a little bit of that generational trauma.
00:20:36
Speaker
But, you know, look, I still watch for it all the time and I still see it all the time. It's something that I don't think you can really cure, but I think it's something that you can learn to work with and learn to deal with. You can be course correct. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just stemming from what you were just talking about with like a very loud and boisterous family, I came from a very like quiet household, like just like it just was very quiet. I spent a lot of time by myself. I didn't. Yeah, sure. I had friends, but it was never like.
00:21:04
Speaker
it was never like bring your friends over like and have fun. It was like yeah maybe once a month you could have a friend over, but it was it was just a quieter household. And so coming into, you know not to bring not to bring it up again, but coming into a relationship with someone that had such a big, um loud friend group, that was something I had to get used to. And I had to you know and i think that a lot of times, you know even when we were first you know starting to get to know each other and when we were still friends,
00:21:33
Speaker
I was a little more reserved. I was a little more quiet because I didn't know how to react in those spaces. And it just did take time for me to understand that you know this too can be a safe space for you to just be yourself. And so like yeah that just takes time, I think. So if you're someone that's suffering through so those kinds of things, just know that like you you can you can you can change and you can course correct and you can make yourself feel comfortable in any space. It just takes time and understanding and really just doing the work.
00:22:02
Speaker
so But do you want to hear some statistics around family related murders? Welcome to the podcast, baby. Yeah, you know what I fucking do. I would love that. So it's just interesting. You know, we're talking about trauma. We're talking about, you know, families and everything. So I thought it would be interesting to look up, like,
00:22:22
Speaker
um when it comes to family-related violence, ah because that kind of stems from from all of that. yeah So according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting Program, family members are responsible for about 12.8% of homicides. I actually thought it would be higher than while other known individuals are responsible for thirty about 30%. The remaining 47.8% of murders have an unknown relationship between victim and offender. I can only imagine that those are robberies that go wrong, like those kind of things. um I thought actually from, and maybe this is just stemming from watching too much law and order growing up, but I thought like homicides of family members would be higher.
00:23:06
Speaker
sure I don't know about you, but it just seems like every time we watch one of these crime shows, it's always something tell somebody in the family. Some other statistics around family-related murder. and So these are a little bit scattered because they don't always run these studies. um I know that they keep track of like homicides and stuff, but these were the statistics that I could find. okay so In 2021, 16% of female murder victims were killed by a non-intimate family members, compared to 10% of male murder victims. In 2020, an average of a woman or girl was killed by a family member every 11 minutes. Wait, wait, wait, real quick, what do you think non-intimate family, that must mean none non-immediate family, do you think?
00:23:52
Speaker
So isn't that like, that is that like uncle kind of thing? Yeah. I think it just means someone that you're not sleeping with essentially. So like you're not, Oh, so like, so not their spouse. I get it. Nevermind. Okay. Got it. Got it. In 1988, a survey found that, uh, women were 45% of victims in murders involving family members and 55% of defendants were women.
00:24:15
Speaker
A study also found that adult female family members were responsible for more than a quarter of all infant and toddler homicides. So there's something right there. yeah What is but does that trauma look like when it's handed down violence? And it could hand down violence to even the littlest of toddlers and infants.
00:24:34
Speaker
Uh, not, not to mention that, you know, postpartum is something that we invalidated for a really long time. Um, and didn't even talk to women about how they were feeling after birth and even like raising children. So yeah I think that, you know, we're coming around to that, but, um, I think where there's still a lot of work to do to understand motherhood and what it does to the psyche and, you know,
00:24:59
Speaker
Just the pressure I mean the pressure even now has got to be boiling over with not only just taking care of your own family but now having to try to keep up with the world because we're required now to Understand everything that's going on in the world on top of what's going on in our own little world Which is so I hate it now. I hate it Yeah, it's it's it's it's got to be overwhelming. And then like and then also just trying to like get these kids everywhere they need to be, like that's it on top of where you need to be. like it It's got to be so much pressure, I can only imagine. um So but speaking of families,
00:25:37
Speaker
I, you know, maybe, let's see here. When did I get myself a cutoff? I think I saw I gave myself a cutoff of like 38 is when I was like, you know what? If I'm going to have kids, i want to have yeah I want to have kids by like a certain age because I didn't want to be an old dad. I want to be able to raise kids to their 18th birthday while still being able to you know do their do all the things. you know my my My cutoff was 35. I'm actually i'm un dating somebody right now. And we actually we we were just talking about about about this. And I was like, yeah, I just i had old parents. and i that
00:26:17
Speaker
I don't want to be that. I don't want to do that for a kid. I don't want to. Yeah. i say it It's a weird mental mental thing. I think that both of us have, but I think like, I think that we both just, we grew up with the extremes. I had an extremely young parent and you had older parents and they, and it just didn't, it didn't work. And i I really wanted to do it right if I was going to do it because that's the difference when you are you know a same-sex couple is that you have to plan and you have to ah really come up with what you want to do. It's not an accident that you just like figure it out.
00:26:53
Speaker
you know Exactly. um it's Speaking of, I looked up adoption um and and this was in Illinois specifically. That was the best I could do because it's a big sense. yeah sure um And so really the traditional adoption placement, you still have to go through application interview, orientation, home study, adoption, education, post placement visits, court reports. And and and Andrew, I'll just interject here really quick. This is all before the the Trump administration takes over. So exactly this is probably going to all get even harder in the next four years. and And also in Illinois, you have to become a foster parent before you can adopt foster children. and And so that's another thing that you have to take an extra children and take care of them before you can have ah your own foster child. And so it's just, it's such a lengthy process to such an expensive process. yeah I can tell you this a private adoption.
00:27:45
Speaker
Um, that's basically where you are going through an agency, um, is can cost between 30 and $60,000. That's, that's a, that's a year's salary for most people. if if that um And and that that's not even including like the actual cost of caring for a child after all that's just after you have them, you know, like if that's agency fees and like all of those kinds of things.
00:28:12
Speaker
Oh my god. And then, okay, let's say you want to do an independent adoption. An independent option would be- And do you mean like, is this like between like just like people kind of thing you mean? Yeah. So like, let's say your friend, I don't know, your friend is diagnosed with ah an illness where they can't look after their kids anymore, so they want you to adopt them. That can cost everywhere, anywhere between 25 and 45,000 just because you have to work with an attorney. um And attorney fees can drive up the cost of that ridiculousness. Oh my god.
00:28:41
Speaker
So it's just it's the most things like i think that a lot of people a lot of hetero people not trying to call you out but i am that they don't really understand that when they see a loving relationship but even when you know they see two men or two women that are in a loving relationship,
00:28:57
Speaker
they have this idea of like, oh, don't you guys want to have kids? And a lot of times it's, a lot of times it's, yeah, but I can't afford it. Like I can't, because the initial cost is basically, oh, do you want a house where you can raise those kids or do you just want kids? Like ah that's basically, yeah. And, and, and in in the meantime, and enjoy your parental leave straight people. Um, that is, and I look, I'm, I'm saying that like, like in the best way, like, I mean, I, look, I,
00:29:22
Speaker
I'm a manager, I have people that go on parental leave. I think parental leave is a good thing. Do not get me wrong on this and do not fucking put words in my mouth, people. But like, got some news. There's a thing that I like to call the single tax or the gay tax. Yeah. And it is basically this. We are the ones who typically don't have kids and never have to avail themselves of a believe. And yeah got some news when somebody goes on parental leave, the work doesn't disappear. It just goes to somebody else.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a tough barrier um to to child to having kids. and Yeah, totally. And I i applause people applaud people that are able to do it. And um ah you know i'm I'm glad that you are able to, just a lot of us aren't. And it's unfortunate because I know a lot of great couples out there that would make great parents. so Yeah, I do i do too. Yeah, I gotta tell you too, like and that there There is a part of me that I think actually does wanna be a parent. um But I don't know if I would do it in this world. right like I would maybe adopt a child because that's obviously not bringing another kid into the world. I don't know if I could bring another kid into this world right now.
00:30:32
Speaker
I don't know if I could. It's crazy, crazy times. Um, so speaking of families, I think one family, that one kind of family that we haven't talked about is chosen family. And I think that that's something that comes up a lot in the LGBTQ community because a lot of times, you know, thankfully neither of us have gone through this, so we can't really speak to it. but Um, you know, a lot of times when people come out, they are denied their family and they are set out on their own and they have to try to find their own family because their, their, their, their quote unquote real family, um, is not there for them anymore. Yeah. And so the idea of chosen family is, you know, finding those people that would do anything for you and that you would do anything for them. And
00:31:17
Speaker
making sure that that that love is, you know, ah across the board. And so I thought it'd be interesting to talk about another chosen family who the Manson family. Oh, what a loving, wonderful group of people, truly. um So I didn't know that you're really there for each other, you know, like you really were just there for each other.
00:31:42
Speaker
Um, I actually didn't know that I, I, listen, I don't have like a hard on for serial killers. It's just like not, and it's not like a thing and that I go for it normally. Um, and so I didn't know that Charlie Manson was actually like in, um, psychiatric like facilities almost his whole life. Oh yeah. like oh you What a fucking nutcase, dude. My God.
00:32:04
Speaker
I am going to refer to this group as the family i'm gonna try to leave kind of the name out of it just because this was like a group of like a hundred people and they they did follow one guy but listen a hundred people that's not nothing yeah. Um, so basically what happened is they were active in the late sixties and early seventies at, like I said, at the group, the, the peak was about a hundred people who lived an unconventional lifestyle in California. Um, they frequently use psychoactive drug drugs, uh, including antinaphenamine.
00:32:38
Speaker
and hallucinogens such as LSD. Most were young women and from middle class backgrounds, so easily manipulated you know from middle class. I haven't really known a lot of strife, so they think that, you know well, whatever, I can do more of this.
00:32:55
Speaker
um Many of them were attracted by the hippie counterculture of the time, and they liked this kind of like communal living and kind of sharing of goods and and and things. And then you know comes in this guy, ah born in 1934. He had been institutionalized or incarcerated for more than half of his life by the time he was released from prison in 1967. He began attracting acolytes in the San Francisco area.
00:33:22
Speaker
they gradually moved to a rundown ranch called the Spa Ranch, Spa, sorry, in Los Angeles County. um The ranch burned down in ah during a Southern California wildfire in the September of 1970. Most notably, um the members, including Susan Atkinson, Tex Watson, and Patricia Krenwinkle,
00:33:45
Speaker
Uh, basically entered the home of the actress Sharon Tate and murdered her and four others that were there as we get together. Uh, tragically Sharon Tate was, um, pregnant at the time. Um, and then, uh, and then they go on with, uh, with, with Roman Polanski's baby.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah. and They go on the following night. i I didn't know this part of the story. I knew the Sharon Tate part of the story. I did not know this part of the story is that the following night, the family members murdered supermarket executive, Lino, the lab Bianca and his wife Rosemary and their home Los Angeles.
00:34:19
Speaker
Um, members also committed a number of assaults, petty crimes, theft and street vandalism, including an assassination attempt on us president Gerald Ford in 1975. It's just insane. The amount of, uh, and, and, and then he you like, and then get this. So all these people, they get convicted, they, they go to their separate ways. They go, you know, some of them go to prison, some of them, you know, whatever this guy.
00:34:46
Speaker
continues to attract people. He continues to get people on his side, even from prison. And I just don't know the whole that this guy had on people. A lot of people said that he was like a Jesus like act like person. um But I don't know. it's It's a little strange that people have such a fascination with this one guy who was just kind of a crazy asshole.
00:35:09
Speaker
and and And by the way, if if you haven't seen Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, see it. not it's It's one of my favorite films. and It's definitely one of my favorites from from from Tarantino, but it's so good. And it it it presents a fictionalized account of what happens that night with the Jensen family. yeah um And it's it's really, if you've never seen it, I won't give it away. But the way that they the way that they deal with it is awesome.
00:35:37
Speaker
it's it's It's so good. It's a classic currency note. Very, very satisfying. And I think um it it does a really good job but of like of treating Sharon Tate with like ah a lot of respect. And and it's ah it ends up being a lot more emotional than than you might think for for that kind of movie. it's It's one I really love, but that made me think about it.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah, there's another movie out there. What is it called? I think it's called The Jackals. That's actually like a like a kind of a retelling of the story. But interesting um it's it's an interesting movie. um Of course, nobody's going to know exactly what happened that night because, you know, they're dead. but um sure um But yeah, it's a it's a crazy story about a crazy man who should rot.
00:36:26
Speaker
You know, this is what I would, you know, the Andrew and I like to give a little message to our listeners whenever we can. And this ah this is my message for people out there. um i you know i'm I'm always amazed when like i when I meet people and I'm like, oh, somehow we talk about therapy in one way or another. We talk about mental illness or something. And I'll ask, you know, have you been to therapy before?
00:36:47
Speaker
And it it always surprises me on how many people haven't been to therapy. And like, look, going to therapy isn't some like badge of honor, you don't get a medal for it or whatever, but it can really help you. And, you know, if there are things that if there are patterns in your behavior, if there are things that you do, if there are things that you're like, why do I do this? Why, why do I worry about this? Why do I act that way? What if I don't want to do that anymore? You can go talk to somebody about that and that somebody can help you. Um, and it's something just to think about as this, your life can be whatever you want to make it. You do not have to be a prisoner of your family or of your parents or,
00:37:30
Speaker
of Your uncle or your cousin or whatever you don't have to let them control your life and um You know look like for me. I've got a I have a lovely family, and we're all so insane um I know my brother's listening to this right now, and I'm i'm sure he's laughing his ass off, but it's the truth And um you know as we've as we've grown older, and you know he would agree with me on this, I'm sure, you know we've learned how to set our own boundaries and how to do things in different ways, you know especially like for him and his kids. you know he's He's trying to avoid passing on generational trauma to his three little children. you know Or my other my sister, she doesn't want to pass it on to her kids. And so you know we've made really solid choices to sort of yeah stop it where it is and recognize it and see it and go, no, that's done.
00:38:14
Speaker
And you can do the same thing. You really, really can, but only if you make a choice to do it. So that's my little, the more you know, um bit, but you can do that. um And if you need help finding a therapist, i ask around. Somebody will help you find one. I can guarantee fucking to you, they will help you.
00:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I'll just say that um no family is perfect. God, no. And, you know, you don't, and and honestly, you don't have to put up that front either. like except Except for the Addams family. They were perfect. Yeah. It's okay for you to show the cracks of your family and to get those cracks healed because that's the only way it's gonna, it's only, yep, that's why it's only gonna do it. um and you don't always have to put on a persona of perfection, and I think that's really important for people to hear. yeah Because we're all we all have our flaws, and we're all working on stuff, and you're allowed to be human. Except except for me and you, Andrew. We don't have flaws. Which brings this segment to a close. um So, everyone, thank you for listening. This is the end of the show. No, it's not. It's not the end of the show. We're going on to the part that everyone loves, which is, Andrew, tell them. What you been watching, bitch?
00:39:38
Speaker
And we're back with whatcha been watchin', bitch. Whatcha been watchin', you family feud bitch. Ooh, that was a good one, Andrew, family feud. Uh, kind of miss family feud. Oh, it's a good one. Um, folks, look, this is the segment of the show where we talk about the things that we've been watching or reading or listening to.
00:39:59
Speaker
um And so Andrew is going to tell us his first thing that he's been watching. So take it away, bitch. Yeah. So I finally ah got this was about a month ago at this point, but, you know, we haven't recorded in a bit, but I wanted to bring this up. I got to the theater and I saw Heretic, which is the Hugh Grant movie. ah It's about two Mormon ah girls who are on their mission and they are going around and knocking on doors.
00:40:26
Speaker
um talking about the ah the church to people. And they come across this this one guy that they have an appointment with. um They basically say to the guy, oh, it's it's like raining. It's like storming. And so he's like, oh, come in. And um they say, you know, we can't come in unless there's another woman present. And he basically convinces them that his wife is in the kitchen. Come on in and we'll talk about Jesus. And ah he gets them in and sets them down. And the wife is in the kitchen. Come in. We'll talk about Jesus.
00:40:53
Speaker
um And ah basically he puts them through kind of a ah test. And I'm not going to say anything more beyond that. But ah this is a very interesting movie. um Lots of twists and turns to be had. I think Hugh Grant does a great job of being kind of this evil guy. Our two ladies do a wonderful job of portraying kind of this innocence. um The one girl is one of the main girls from Yellow Jackets. I don't know if you're if you watch that show or not. But yep. um And so she's in it. And then the other girl, she looked familiar to me, but I can't quite place her. ah But this is overall a pretty good movie. I will say it gets a little slow. That doesn't bother me, but I could see how maybe some other people would say it's a little slow for them. um But I found it just a little I i saw in the theater, so I was a captive audience. So maybe that's a better way to watch this movie and actually like put down the phone and like actually watch it.
00:41:49
Speaker
Um, but I really enjoyed it. Uh, I thought by the end I was very satisfied. and And so I don't think it would have made my top five, but I am glad that I saw it in the theater. I don't think it's in the theater anymore at this point, but I'm pretty sure you can watch none on demand. Nice. Um, that is on my list to watch on demand. like It keeps popping up and I go, I'm going to watch it when the price comes down. You'll, you'll like it a lot, but I would wait until it's like three 99. Okay. Fair enough. I will. Okay. My first one, oh by the way, yeah, ah going to the theater to watch it is just chef's kiss. It is the one time in my life where I really do make myself put my fucking phone away. You know, it's just, it's so fucking good. Anyways, my first one, it's a big one. It's wicked.
00:42:35
Speaker
um Wicked. Okay, look, I'm obsessed with Wicked in a lot of ways. I read the book a long time ago in college, wrote a paper on it, um got obsessed with it when I was really thinking about like the whole like like just just just the the the interesting way it picks a part and decont that's what i'm looking for deconstructs the Wizard of Oz story. um And then of course i I got obsessed with the musical and then I saw the musical on on the first tour I got way back when I can remember what year that was but it's a long long time ago now um so waiting for the movie I was I was a little bit worried about it. um i Before I saw it my sister told me she was like oh we want to go see it and it's so long and pop up of a enemy and it is long like this thing is fucking it's like three hours long man.
00:43:21
Speaker
um But let me tell you, fucking brilliant. This movie is brilliant. And please do not miss it on the big screen. Go see it on the big screen. Do yourself that favor. um If you've never seen Wicked and you really don't know what it's about,
00:43:36
Speaker
Don't Google it. Just do yourself that favor. Like you you might be one of the only people that doesn't know what wicked is about. So do yourself that favor and just go see it. It's interesting. and I would recommend watching Wizard of Oz if you, if you haven't watched that in a long time, if you are new to the story that that can help you. Um, but this is just the first part of it. There will be another part in about a year from now. It's supposed to come out in November of 2025. Um, and this is starring Cynthia Arevo as Elphaba, uh, Ariana Grande as, as Glinda.
00:44:05
Speaker
Jeff Goldblum as The Wizard, and Michelle Yeoh as Madame Morrible, and then a bunch of other people are in there too. um it's It's fantastic. it is It is the musical on steroids. It's a musical that I think most people never really thought could be done on film, and then they just go and do it. And like I saw this, um but i we this guy that I'm dating, we we went on a date to go see it. And he had mentioned the night before, he was like, hey, you know would you mind if we saw Wicked for this date?
00:44:34
Speaker
And in my head I'm thinking, o this is going to be a long ass movie for a date. I don't know if this is a good idea. And we even talked about it when we got near the theater because there was a little Christmas market we were having ah a wine at first. And I was like, you know, do you want to, we don't have to do it. We can go do something else. We could, you know, go just go out to eat or whatever. And he was like, no, let's do it. And, and I'm so glad that he said that because we had a great time watching it.
00:44:56
Speaker
It was just like the time just flew by. Like, yeah, it's three hours, but it just flies by. The music is incredible. The the the artistry is incredible. The choreography, the this, the that. I was crying. He was crying. we were all Everyone was crying in the theater. it's just It's really, really good. I'll stop gushing about it. um But all I'll say is it just if you have the chance to go see it in the cinema, please, please, please go do that. You can watch it at home. I've already bought the movie at home.
00:45:22
Speaker
um And that is cool, but see it on a big screen for God's sake. It's so lovely And I think they did not only the musical but they did the book a lot of a lot of credit here um So that's it. I loved it. Hope you do too. Good to hear it. We haven't gotten to see it yet I know we're gonna go here this weekend or next weekend. So I hope you guys love it. I hope you love it I'm sure I'm sure we will. um I actually I've I've actually avoided this like almost exclusively. So I'm excited to see what all the hubbub is about. Amen, dude. All right. My next one is one of the newer releases on Shutter. I believe it came out two weeks ago at this point. It's called Last Straw.
00:46:03
Speaker
Um, I have been on a shutter hiatus. So this was, I turned it on. I was like, you know what? I pay for this. I've got to get on here and at least watch one thing. Were you on a shutter hiatus like me for like a year? Yeah. yeah ah but And so I turned on one of their latest ones called Last Straw. And this one, you know what? It surprised me. This one was actually pretty good. It follows a girl. She is, I would say in that transition period of out of high school, but not yet knowing what you want to do. Like, you know what I mean? Sure. And she is working for her dad at a local diner. It's a very like mom and pop think like Riverdale diner type of place.
00:46:44
Speaker
And she has to work the night shift and she ends up firing the only other guy that was she was working with. And she's there by herself. And all of a sudden, the diner is surrounded by these an onslaught of attackers. And it's basically her trying to survive the night. But there is a nice little twist halfway through where it switches to the killer's perspective. And that's all I'll say. um This one surprised me. You know, you we talk about this a lot.
00:47:12
Speaker
um Shutter has kind of a, I would say one in four are good. And then all the other three are not so great. Yeah, totally. But when they hit, they hit. So I got to give them a little bit of credit when credit is due. And I think last straw, if you're looking at shutter movies, I would definitely put it on your list to watch at least when you you have time. so and So it was pretty good and I enjoyed it quite a bit.
00:47:37
Speaker
I definitely thought it was going to be about a scarecrow just before the straw. I was like, can I be a scarecrow movie? It's going to be a scarecrow movie. It is kind of a weird title. um I don't want to say anything about it. I thought I thought it was going to be about like a plastic straw, like because she was in a diner. You know what I mean? Yes. Yes. It's the last one. Help us. Look, I mean, i' all all if you said it's good on Shutter, I will watch it because i I need to come back to this thing that I pay for, too. Thankfully, it's only like I don't even know what it is. Six bucks a month or whatever.
00:48:09
Speaker
like it's like six bucks a year. You know what? where're We're supporting a horror. We were supporting horror. and look And listen, if anybody from a Shutter happens to be listening, we do love you. Just listen. Some of the stuff ain't good. I don't know what else to tell you. um My next one, Andrew, I finally got to watch this. It is Smile 2.
00:48:26
Speaker
who know I know that you talked about it, of course. Um, um, ah but I actually, like, you know, how like on, on Apple TV or on other things, like they'll have like a little like two movie package kind of deal. yeah And so I got, I got both movies for and i look, the I know one of them is streaming on whatever, but I was like, you know what? Might as well own them. And I'm sure I'm going to like part two. So I just bought them and it was like 15 bucks or whatever. Um, it totally worth it. and Smile 2 fucking rocked, dude. It was so good, right? Oh, it was so, so good. So good. And um you know it but and it was it was good to watch Smile part one again, um because i haven't it i I like the movie. I just hadn't watched it in a while.
00:49:03
Speaker
um And I did forget some of the really just intense fucking shit that happens in it. I love how Smile 2 doesn't lose any time. It picks up BAM right away, right from where part one ah leaves off and just keeps going.
00:49:20
Speaker
And it's it is a cruel movie. the the smile fra i kind Part three is going to be so fucked up. It is going to be so fucked up. I'm not going to spoil the end for people that haven't seen it, but the end of Smile 2.
00:49:36
Speaker
I just thought that was genius. And it it just gives a whole a whole new realm of possibility for the fucked up shit that can happen in part three. um But I thought I thought so much of this was good. I mean, the acting is genuinely just so well done. It really is. The main girl is so good. Naomi Scott. Oh, my God. She's incredible. And luke Lucas Gage was was fantastic. I think he's so cute, too. um And ah i I forget the name. name of her mom. <unk> She's been in a bunch of stuff. She's like a character actress. Yeah. Yeah. And like whatever she's in, she's always good. And she was great in this too. And like it just, just really good stuff here. And it's, it's always good to see Kyle Gollmer in literally anything. I think he's so good too.
00:50:20
Speaker
and and then and And Drew Barrymore was fucking in this, right? So it's it's if you haven't seen Smile 2 yet, like, I don't know what to tell you. You have to see it. um Obviously, watch part one. But Smile 2, I really, really loved it. I thought it was inventive, clever. It was scary. um And the end really freaked me out. It did. Yeah. I have i loved that movie. Obviously, it was my number one of last year. so All right. to My next one is currently and on, on demand, or if you have a random thing that I had to, what I had to get MG, I had to get MGM plus for American Gothic. And so this was also from MGM plus i watched it. yeah Um, cause I have like a seven day free trial, but, um,
00:51:05
Speaker
It's called Blink Twice. This was a movie that came out in the summer and kind of just came and went without much like fanfare. Channing Tatum is in it. oh nice um A couple of other people. It's like ah an and so ensemble cast, but it's basically about these two caterwaters that are doing a big event for like a big celebrity and they sneak in as guests and end up like you know, getting along with like the the main celebrity who's chanting Tatum and they kind of get sweet on him. And he invites them to his Island for like a weekend getaway um where they're just going to like party and like hang out and do stuff. And and they decide to go because they're like, what else do we have to do? Like, or just cater waiters? Like, let's let's let's fucking go. And so um they they go. And it there's something a little more mysterious right under the surface. that slowly gets kind of revealed throughout the movie um that I don't want to give away on what you've been watching, bitch. But you know what? This one actually surprised me um as far as like I didn't know what to expect. And it turned out to be a pretty satisfying movie. um And, that you know, I'm not always the biggest Channing Tatum person, um but he even in this was was pretty good. So if you missed that if you missed this one, I would definitely go back and give Blink twice a a watch.
00:52:29
Speaker
Very cool. ah My next one is one that just kind of popped up on Amazon and I was like, oh, I'll watch it because my friend is in it. um but steve So ah this is called a House of Spoils. It came out last year. um Ariana DeBose is the star. ah It also has Barbie Ferreira, but most importantly, it has my old pal from college, Arien Moyed.
00:52:53
Speaker
um Arian, ah if if you if the name sounds familiar, if you watched Succession, he was Stewie in Succession and he's been in a lot of other stuff too. And I just i think the absolute world of Arian, I've talked about him before, he's just such a great guy. He's just one of those people that you're so glad to see has been so successful. just yeah he's It's just amazing. Anyways, I watched it because he's in it and um started watching it and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to like this, but let's just keep going anyway.
00:53:19
Speaker
And you know what? It's not bad. It's not my favorite thing ever. But like I think it's a pretty good like not a not a total B movie, but it's definitely an A minus movie, if that makes sense. um And it is about I'll just read you the letterbox blurb. It is an ambitious chef opens a restaurant on a remote estate where she battles kitchen chaos, crushing self doubts and a haunting presence who threatens to sabotage her at every turn. So what this movie basically is is like ah they they They buy this old manor house. It's not really clear exactly where they are either, but they buy this old manor house, this rich guy who who's played by Arian, and they're going to turn it into a restaurant. And it's been a restaurant before, um and like it's going to be high class, high end, you know big chef kind of stuff.
00:54:06
Speaker
And ah he hires this you know you know total like whiz kid chef played by arian Ariana DeBose to come out and like do it. And she's excited about it, but she's also worried about it. And when she gets there, you know she starts to plan and starts to do things, but like things just keep going wrong. And it's called House of Spoils.
00:54:24
Speaker
And that is pretty right on the nose because whenever she makes something like whatever, like it's like prep for, you know, at night for the next day, she comes back and everything looks moldy to her over and over and over. And this is happening. it's It's honestly kind of gross. um I won't give any more away from but about it than than that. But, um you know, look, like I said, it's not my favorite thing, but it was a good watch. um If you're looking for if you've got nothing else to watch, this is one that you you won't go wrong on, I would say. So House of Spoils, it is on Amazon.
00:54:53
Speaker
Cool. Um, that sounds interesting. It kind of sounds like, uh, the menu meets, uh, what's that Chicago show where, yes, chef. Yeah. The bear, you know what? Yeah. that That's, that's kind of a good way to think about it. Um, and like, you know, to be fair, there is some good sort of witchy, spooky stuff to it that it that is really interesting. i I think I bet you and Michael watching this together, I think you guys would like it.
00:55:18
Speaker
Cool. I'll look it up. All right. My last one is not new, but it's new to me. Um, the first three seasons are currently on Netflix. You can get all four seasons on Paramount plus. This is the show evil. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this. i'm not I don't think I've have even heard of it, to be honest.
00:55:36
Speaker
So it's over now, but it went for four seasons. I believe it started on CBS, but then when Paramount Plus came about, they took it on a Paramount Plus so they could give it an R rating, basically. um It's kind of like ah The X-Files meets The Exorcist, if you will. It's about a woman who gets recruited. She is originally like ah a testifier for like cases on like a psychologist who testifies on cases.
00:56:05
Speaker
And she gets recruited by the Catholic Church church to work with a priest and like a tech guy, and they go out and they assess whether people are ready for exorcisms or not. that and that And so it's kind of looking at all these different cases from like the perspective of a psychologist, the perspective of a priest, and the perspective of like kind of somebody that's kind of on the outside.
00:56:28
Speaker
um And so, listen, this one is a fun one if you grew up with shows like The X-Files, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, nice kind of shows that are like creature of the week, kind of mystery of the week. There are like larger stories happening, like, but I will say the funny thing about the show is that they pick up and drop plots real quick. like you just You get into what like this the next plot and you're like, hey, wait a minute. What about what happened to that guy? Or like what happened to that demon? And then they just kind of never go back to it. And so ah so it sometimes gets a little bit frustrating. But overall, like the acting is really solid. Everyone's really funny on it. It's it does get a little bit creepy at times, a little bit spooky and scary. So if you're looking for a show to kind of like pass the time or like a show to like turn on like
00:57:16
Speaker
when there's nothing else on. I found this throughout the holidays when there was like no TV on, except for like Christmas specials. And I've just been like binging it and I've just been really enjoying it. So this, this hits a little bit of an itch for me. It's evil on Paramount+. I'm going to see if I can find that here.
00:57:31
Speaker
And my last one is another one in cinemas right now. It is a Nosferatu, directed by Robert Eggers. It came out last year. Weirdest release date of all time. That's what I was going to say. It actually didn't come out last year. It came out on New Year's Day. It came out on Christmas here. It came out on Christmas there. It was New Year's Day here. That's so weird on Christmas.
00:57:53
Speaker
Look, it's really good, man. um if you like If you don't really know Nosferatu, and look, some people don't. They're they're way way more familiar with Bram Stoker's Dracula from Francis Ford Coppola and you know and Dracula the night night from the 30s, that kind of thing. yeah So I get that.
00:58:12
Speaker
Nosferatu though is ah basically the same thing it just in Germany. that that yeah That's really basically it. And F.W. Murnau made it as a silent film. I forget what year he would have made that, but it's it's a very long time ago. Bram Stoker's um bra stoker's family estate actually sued him.
00:58:33
Speaker
ah for copyright infringement. Because, I mean, look, the the story is nearly identical to to to Bram Stoger's. And he was actually supposed to destroy all the copies of Nosferatu. But thankfully, um the copies of the movie were already on their way to movie houses. And so there were all of these sort of like unofficial, I mean, unofficial official copies that were out there that they couldn't destroy. And so the movie survived, thank God.
00:59:01
Speaker
And the Nosferatu lore survived too. um It's actually funny when I was in Berlin a couple years ago for Christmas. um There just happened to be a Nosferatu exhibit at this museum and I went to it and it was so fucking cool. I talk about it on on on an old episode from before. Anyways, um this is the new the new version of it. It is not a silent movie.
00:59:21
Speaker
um and It is really really great it's classic robert eggers i'm just that that darkness to it that that intense um attention to cinematography and the way that everything looks on the sound that the darkness just really really amazing stuff.
00:59:38
Speaker
um Lily Rose Depp is wonderful as Ellen. Nicholas Holt as Thomas Hutter is so good in this. This might be, I think, his best, to be honest. ah Bill Skarsgard plays Count Orlock, who is basically Dracula. um And he's... He's amazing in it. will it Willem Dafoe is in it. Emma Corrin is in it. um Ralph Einsen returns, who's a of a very classic Robert Eggers ensemble member. Just a really, really wonderful movie. it It is another one that I would say, you know, go see this in the theater.
01:00:10
Speaker
if for any other reason that it's dark in the theater. like it's It's just hard to get your house dark enough sometimes. Yeah, you can tell by the previews that this is a dark movie. Oh, so dark. and like you know some some like My TV, it never does black the way that you want it to do black. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. so like See it in the cinema because it's going to be worth it. and Especially if you can see the 35 millimeter cut like I just saw last night, that is beautiful. It's absolutely stunning, gorgeous.
01:00:36
Speaker
Um, I loved it. Not much more to tell you about it. I just thought it was so well done and I'm really glad that I got to see it. Cool. Good to hear. Uh, I, I'm still stupefied that they brought it out at Christmas. scenario but that's what a What a Christmas movie. I know. All right. Well that does it for what you've been watching, but Maddie brought us wicked, which is currently in cinemas. And I believe for on demand now you can buy it. yeah you you You can also buy it and rentals.
01:01:02
Speaker
Smile 2, which is, um I believe in the United States, it's on Paramount Plus, or you can kind of, you know, purchase it or rent it now. um House of Spoils on Amazon and Nosferatu, which is currently in cinemas. And Andrew brought us Heretic, which he saw in the cinema, but you can also get on streaming different services. ah Last Straw on Shutter, Blink Twice, which is on demand, and Evil on Paramount Plus.
01:01:28
Speaker
So folks, that does it for another edition of What You've Been Watching, Bitch. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. What happened was true.
01:01:40
Speaker
are are
01:01:51
Speaker
The most bizarre and brutal series of crimes in America. are um
01:02:25
Speaker
um
01:02:33
Speaker
No!
01:02:35
Speaker
so we here's some stop stop
01:02:41
Speaker
um This is the movie that is just as real Just as close a Just as terrifying as being there um Even if one of them survives What will be left? The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. After you stop screaming, you start talking about it.
01:03:15
Speaker
It's time to fire up those chainsaws and get out the barbecue sauce, because it's time for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Maddie, tell us all about it. Who will survive and what will be left of them? A group of five young friends face a nightmare of torment at the hands of a depraved Texas clan. texas The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was directed by Toby Hooper, written by Toby Hooper and Kim Henkel,
01:03:42
Speaker
Produced by Vortex Inc. and distributed by Bryanston Distributing Company. Sally was played by Marilyn Burns, Jerry by Alan Danziger, Franklin by Paul A. Partain, Kirk by William Vail, Pam by Terry McMahon, The Hitchhiker by Edwin Neal,
01:04:01
Speaker
Old Man by Jim Siedow, Leatherface by Gunnar Hansen, Grandfather by John Dugan, and the narrator, I did not realize this, was John Larraghet. Remember him? My goodness. ah This film is obviously rated R. um it It is funny though, there was a, ah i I guess Toby Hooper was like trying to get it rated PG, which is absolutely fucking hilarious. That that was even of an attempt. Anyways, it's rated R. Is 83 minutes. God, remember when movies were that short? Quickly. God love them. Made in the USA, of course, came out on October 11th of 1974, filmed in Round Rock, Texas. The budget was $80,000, which was an overspend of the original budget of $60,000, by the way.
01:04:49
Speaker
And it brought in $31 million. dollars Talk about a goldmine. Not a first watch for either of us. um Andrew, tell me about Texas Chainsaw Massacre for you. Yeah, I think that this is, you know, obviously a classic for a reason. um And you it has a lot of esteem within the the horror community. It obviously went on to spawn countless sequels. I don't even know how many sequels are at this point, as well as a reboot with many sequels. So obviously a huge commercial success. um Listen, this first one, I'll tell you what, I i haven't seen it in probably 20 years just because this was one of the ones but when I was like first getting into horror, like, you know, you got to watch the staples, you got to watch, you know, the sure these these ones. So I turned it on. I wasn't a huge fan of it. The first time I saw it, it felt
01:05:40
Speaker
Um, I don't know what the right word was, like chaotic, I guess is like the word. Um, so I tried to give myself like a reset. I was like, you know what? You haven't seen this in a long time. You have some preconceived notions of what you think you thought. So like, just go into it fresh, just like try to watch it with like fresh eyes. And so I turned on, thankfully, um, Amazon has the 50th anniversary edition, which is just, it just looks better. It's the same movie, but it just looks better.
01:06:06
Speaker
They cleaned it up and everything and so at least got to watch it with like new eyes as far as like quality goes And but listen, I'll tell you for the first two acts of the movie. I was really enjoying it I thought that they took a lot of risks with like um cinematography and like There was a couple of surprises. Obviously, one of the big surprises is Kirk's death. You know, that's I think that's like the infamous one. Sure. um Where you don't see it coming. And so, like, I was into it. And then, like, I think this is what happened to me last time. But it happened to me again is like the third act. I just am like, OK, like, can we let's move on? Like, let's get it going. Let's go. Let's go.
01:06:45
Speaker
And so, like, I felt myself getting a little frustrated with the third act of just, like, them being in the house and, like, with Sally and everything. But overall, I still enjoyed it more this time around. I'm not a hater on the movie by any means. It's just, like, not in my wheelhouse as far as, like, my favorite movies. You know what I mean?
01:07:04
Speaker
yeah no and so um And so like I still enjoyed it. I had a good time watching it. I'll talk about some of my favorite parts because I i do have some parts that I like starred in my notes because I was like, who I didn't remember that being so good. um But overall, kind of in the the middle for me. What about you?
01:07:20
Speaker
ah So this is one, i've I've talked about this before, but this is one that has always really scared me. um when When I was a kid, my and and he he's he's apologized to me about this sense, but but my brother Michael, who listens to every episode of our show, um so he will hear this again, sorry Michael, I'm not trying to make you feel bad, um but when we we when we were little, we were doing what brothers do, which is drive each other nuts, and one day he just told me that Leatherface was real and that he was loose in Hobart.
01:07:46
Speaker
And I was I was so young, of course, I fucking believed him. And I like literally thought because like and there must have been like maybe one of the sequels had come out then or it it was in the news. i that that It was just something about that. And he told me this and I thought Leatherface was fucking in my hometown. So I was terrified of it, of course. That's so funny.
01:08:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, look, you know, slashers are never going to be the the I like slashers, don't get me wrong, but they're never going to be like my favorite genre of horror. So for me, it's always going to be ghosts and like supernatural demons, that kind of thing. um But you know when it when it comes to ah to this particular film, I really think it's a bit of a masterpiece. I do. um I think in a very short space of time, 83 minutes. That is not that long to tell a story. It's really not. And think about, so you know, today's movies. I mean, I just I just talked to you about Wicked. It was three fucking hours, for God's sake, um of three good hours. But still like, holy shit, this movie only needed a very short amount of time to tell you what happened.
01:08:47
Speaker
And what happens is like this just absolute wild, intense, terrifying story of, you know, the way that I kind of think of it as like, you know, you're driving through desolate farm fields, you know, which like where I'm from, you do do that. And Andrew, I think the same is true for you.
01:09:06
Speaker
yeah You see abandoned farmhouses and you see you know this house that looks kind of run down and you know you wonder, does anybody even still live there? Is anything even still happening there? Does somebody actually run this farm? And like it gets your imagination going and and this really plays on that. And at the same time, it combines another story based on the murders of Ed Gein. And Ed Gein I have a weird connection with Ed Gein, and it's kind of, it's not even it's not even close, but I just, I still think it's weird. um My sister, um ah her in-laws, they're no longer married, it's a long story, but like her ex-in-laws basically. um ah the The mother-in-law, her grandpa was the district attorney in Washera County in Wisconsin, which is the county where the Ed Gein murders happen.
01:09:56
Speaker
And he was the district attorney when they caught Ed Gein. And he was at the Ed Gein house for God's sake. And so like you know i I haven't talked to her for a long story, but I haven't talked to her, the mother-in-law in a very long time. But I remember her telling me just like a little bit about that.
01:10:16
Speaker
And because obviously she heard it from her fucking grandpa, you know what I mean? And he was in the house, he saw what Ed Gein did. And if you don't know what Ed Gein did, um you can look him up, E-D-G-E-I-N. um He did the shit that Weatherface does and what the family does. and And this is not entirely based on Ed Gein, but the murders of Ed Gein, that was a really big um influence on on how the story came about.
01:10:43
Speaker
um And I think too, you know there's there's a lot the lot of lore behind the movie and you can go watch this documentary or that documentary or you know this article or that article. um But one of the things to think about too is like America in 1974 was going through so many changes.
01:11:00
Speaker
and And Toby Hooper and Kim Hinkle for that matter, they they talk about how America was such a ah a shit show then, like it such a shit show. It was Watergate, it was Vietnam, it was Lyndon Johnson, it was racism, it was race, like a total race war in America for God's sake. It was segregation, it was this, it was that. So many things were happening and at once.
01:11:21
Speaker
I think that the horror response to it was basically, let's show America what it really is, how cannibalistic America is, how insane all of you are. And here it is in, what is it, 83 minutes.
01:11:37
Speaker
Um, and I think in a lot of ways they really succeed. Um, you know, and look, the movie's not perfect by any means, even though I just call it a masterpiece. Masterpieces can be imperfect. For example, you want to know who really drives me nuts in this movie is Franklin. Franklin Jesus Christ. What a little dick hole. Oh my God. When he wheels himself into the house and he's mad because he's, you know, everyone else is, he's mad because he's in a wheelchair. That's why he's mad. And when he starts like with his tongue, I literally on this watch, I was like, well other face, can you just kill him now? Like eat him, eat him now, but please do that. So annoying. Or when he's fighting with what's her face over the flashlight, I'm like, Oh my God, I have this in my notes that I'm like, why is this going on for so long? Just give her the fucking flashlight, you motherfucker. She's a woman. She wants the flashlight. Give it to her. So yeah, when he dies, I'm not exactly upset. But look, I think this movie has a lot to say. It's fucking weird. And I can only imagine what it would have been like in 1974, not ever having seen a horror movie like this before, right?
01:12:51
Speaker
Yeah. you And then you go and see this. I bet people were fucking freaking out after seeing this, for God's sake. So, yeah, I really loved it. And I'm i'm really glad that you that you you brought up this topic to do for the show um and that it gave us a chance to finally talk about this because I just think it's such a great movie.
Film Critique: Legacy Sequel
01:13:09
Speaker
Now, are you familiar with any of these um legacy sequels to this movie? Not like the 2000s ones, but literally none. well what What I can tell you is I did start to watch, I started to watch today the new one on Netflix because I haven't seen any of the other ones. yeah I started watching the one on Netflix today and I didn't finish it. I i meant to before before we started recording.
01:13:30
Speaker
Um, uh, it didn't, it didn't seem very good. I'll say, I don't, I don't know how it's going to end up, but I was like, this seems a little trite for, for this. I don't know. Yeah. I think that they, so from what I understand, I've seen bits and pieces and I've obviously seen the 2000s version. yeah sure So I think there's like, what there's, um,
01:13:50
Speaker
the new the the remake and then the beginning and then there's another one i think i've seen all those and i'm i'm kind of mixed on those too but um i know that the legacy sequels to this kind of take a little bit more comical um which i'm like why but i don't i don't understand that that choice people seem to like them so maybe i'll give them a chance one day but um anyway I know I did hear that ah the next generation. Is that what it's called? i've I've heard that that one's a really fucked up one. Have you seen that one? No, I haven't. um And that's a sequel to this. Right. That's like in this cannon or whatever. So not yeah not not entirely sure, though.
01:14:28
Speaker
I believe that's one of the Matthew McConaughey in it, right? and all i like maybe Maybe. Well, maybe I will. Maybe I'll watch that tonight. Who knows? We'll see. But yeah, anyway, back back to this one. So um there's just a lot of weird decisions in this movie. oh totally like ah So like the beginning.
01:14:45
Speaker
the first shot that we get beyond the um the Gore statue, which I do think is an effective thing because I was kind of like, whoa, what the fuck is this? I don't remember this at all of the grave robbers. yeah sure um And then we we move to the our friends and they're checking on their grandpa's grave and then they're going Um, they're, you know, driving and they pull across, they pull it to the side of the road to let Franklin P into a jar. And then a car, a truck goes by and it makes him fly down the hill. And I was like, what is going on? Yeah. true
01:15:18
Speaker
So like there's just like little parts like that where I'm and you know, in the other part, you already mentioned the flashlight fight where I'm just like fucking move on already like this is stupid. like yeah um So, yeah, like you, I was not too sad to see Franklin go. because just Just really quick on on the flashlight thing. One one of the things that that that I wish Toby Hooper maybe had had had thought about when when they were doing this is you you can you can tell that a good deal of the movie is ad libbed.
01:15:47
Speaker
right yeah they yeah they clearly They clearly had a script, they clearly had some some plot points, but also a good deal of it is just like they're just doing it in the moment and just trying to find their way through it. And you know improv, I've talked about this before, if you've never done improv before, improv is fucking hard. It's not easy to do because it's not real.
01:16:07
Speaker
yeah So like you have to make up the shit as you go. And if you're not if you haven't practiced it, if if you're not comfortable with your scene partner, it can be a real fucking challenge. And you know not to to zoom in on this too too too much, but like the the flashlight scene is a great example of that. You've got ad libbing going on between the both of them that isn't working. And it's just going on and on and on and on. And somewhere in there, Toby Hooper as director should have stepped in to say, hey,
01:16:36
Speaker
It doesn't need to be this long. Like there there's there' there's a rule of three right and and the rule of three after three of whatever, the audience is going to start to zone out. And that's exactly what happens right there. And I i wish that they had been um ah smart enough to do that, but they they didn't. They didn't. Yeah, that's one of the the downfalls of it.
01:16:57
Speaker
Yeah. And then there's just like, there's certain parts that I think that I'm surprised go on for so long considering the movie's only 83 minutes. Like sure fair enough the the scene, there's two scenes specifically. There's the scene in the car at the beginning with the hitchhiker, where I'm like, why are you guys not kicking this guy out of your car? He's obviously like, He's lighting pictures on fire. He's cutting his own hand. He's doing all this stuff. And they just let him sit in the back of that car for an uncomfortable amount of time. And I'm like, what is wrong with you people? And then the other part that I thought I was, it and I get it, they're going for the depravity of it all. But the kid, that the dining room scene at the end, I was like, Jesus Christ, if I get one more ah close up on her eyeball, I'm going to get But, you know, it does have a nice payoff at the very, very end. I do think that the scene of of ah Sally in the back of that truck is haunting in the way that she is you know screaming, but also laughing, but also crying. I think that that's a great performance there.
01:18:00
Speaker
Um, however, she eats herself out, not one, but two different windows without being hurt. Um, so I just thought of that. And then she's like, this girl goes through it, but I was just like a couple of parts that specifically when she went out that first window where I was like, she didn't get hurt going out a two story window, but yeah. I think another thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is grandpa, to be honest. Yeah. um And like, you know, ah it's it's something i I clearly like the movies, so i'm I'm willing to overlook it. But like, if I'm looking deeply at the plot here, I don't understand how this man is still alive, looking the way that he does, and it can't be just from, you know, drinking human blood. um So, that that's never explained in in a way that makes a whole lot of sense and maybe that's okay. It leaves your brain to sort of you know maybe even get more scared from thinking about you know how this guy could possibly be living and living like this. um But also too, thinking about how things just go on a little bit too long, the hammer with grandpa
01:19:03
Speaker
It's like, y'all, he ain't going to do it because the motherfucker too old and he he can't he can't hold the fucking hammer. You know what I mean? And they're all like, oh, he kills him with the first swing every time. I'm like, no, he does not because it's been about 15 swings and he is still not done the deed.
01:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. um I will say the first, so if you look at the first half of this movie, and if you looked at it from leather faces, um like from his perspective, it's really just a home invasion movie. And he's trying to like fend off people from coming in this house. I've never thought of it that way. That makes a whole lot of sense.
01:19:39
Speaker
because these entitled assholes just think that then we'll talk about more entitled assholes in our justice for leather. But um they just like let themselves in this house. And I find it so funny that Kirk is drawn into the house by fake pig noises. Leatherface is making little piggy noises. And Kirk's like, Oh, that I need to investigate the piggy noises coming from like, it makes more sense when Jerry goes in because he hears like a woman, you know, like he hears like a, like a, like it sounds like Pam. So that's why Jerry goes into investigate. But Kirk, Kirk, what are you doing? True.
01:20:17
Speaker
ah um But I mean, his death is satisfying. And then, you know, we obviously get the iconic, you know, chase scene with Pam. But again, with Pam, she falls down in that living room and does not get up for yeah five minutes looking around at all of the different ah bone couches and yeah skin lampshades. And I'm just like, girl, Get up. It's the film definitely suffers from sort of like stupid girl syndrome. And, you know, and look, I mean, in a modern context with horror, we we don't but obviously we have a very different view of this kind of thing now. That's just how or functioned back in the day. im And I'm fortunate, but it is very true in this movie for sure.
01:20:58
Speaker
The other thing that I wanted to ask you, so um there's there's a part towards the beginning where they stop at the barbecue slash gas station and the gas station attendant obviously is in on it, but we don't know that at this time. Um, and he says he's out of gas, but you know, he should have more later on or yeah the next day and he warns them.
01:21:16
Speaker
He warns them. He says, like, don't don't go to that house. No, no. These girls don't want to go there. If he really wants to like, oh, wait, I'm just putting it together now. I just remember that at the end of the day when he was sitting at the dining room table, he doesn't like to do this, but he yeah knows that his brothers do. OK, I kind of get it. But then when we get the twist where he ties up Sally and takes her back to the house, is that just because the deed has already been done? So now he feels like he has to like tie up loose ends.
01:21:44
Speaker
it's a fair question. i To be honest, I don't really know. i I would imagine that, you know, what does he say at the table? He says, I i never could stomach the killing or something yeah something like something something along those lines. So I mean, you know, look look at the people in this family, right? ah Out of all of them, he does seem to be the he's asks yeah He's the one that maybe he's the most normal if you want to use that word, I guess. I did love when he comes home and he's like, look what your brother did to the door. ah True. But like, you know, I guess maybe for him there there is just ah that that that hint of normalcy that he has draws him to maybe thinking, well, maybe I i don't need to do this.
01:22:29
Speaker
But you know look, when the burger's in front of you and you've got the hunger for the burger, you're gonna do it. you know yeah And there's there's something perverse and something, um I use the words sort of semi-deliberately, there's something kinky about it. And when when that kink in you gets turned on, it's hard to turn it off.
01:22:47
Speaker
yeah Um, another part that I think that gets over or overlooked is that the hitchhiker is actually the grave robber, not Leatherface. Cause he's the one that's like out on the road and like doing all this stuff. I i just put that together in this rewatch because yeah I think everyone just kind of assumes that Leatherface is like the guy, but like it's kind of, it's kind of the whole family. It's it's it's it's the whole thing. And and i I would I would guess here that leather face, they probably leather face and, you know, near the end, going out into the road. That might be the first time that leather faces like left the compound in a long time. I would imagine. him
01:23:25
Speaker
I do like that Leatherface dresses for dinner. I thought that that was a funny touch. like He actually puts on like a suit, puts on makeup, like gets ready, does the whole drag of it all. um So I did like that. So there is one part at the end that I wanted to get your opinion on. Sure. So they run out to the road.
01:23:45
Speaker
And, um, you know, Sally is being stabbed in the back by, uh, the hitchhiker, but then he gets hit by the truck. Then they, he lifts Sally into the truck, but he doesn't drive away. They go out the other side. yeah That part always frustrates me. I'm like, why didn't you just drive away? I mean don't understand it. And, and you know, we don't see what happens to to the he of my driver either. And like, i I'm hoping that I've I hope he gets away. He's running. but He's running so fast. zaki you know be The forgotten final boy of the movie. I know. Black Maria is that with the name of the truck. So yes. And like, bless him, he stops and he's like, what the fuck is this right now? and Absolutely insane. um Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. it makes and And at the same time, like it doesn't make any sense that, you know, she's she's getting into the back of his pickup truck.
01:24:38
Speaker
And like Leatherface could have killed her about 80 times and somehow manages to not do it. um So, you know, it's just one of those we have we have to overlook, of course. But um yeah, God, I hope that guy got away. Hope it can be too. You know what else I realized as as we were, as I was watching it, it's the 50th anniversary.
01:24:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's what I, that's why I got to watch that anniversary edition on yeah Amazon. Yeah. And I i actually, i I finally just bought it. It was like, I don't know, it was like seven bucks on Apple. Um, and it's, it's got the whole 50th anniversary thing on there. Um, and that is pretty wild, you know, like 50 years on.
01:25:15
Speaker
This movie has inspired a lot, you know, like yeah for sure. Prime example, it inspired one of the best X-Files episodes of all time called Home, um which is just absolutely crazy that episode. It's fucking nuts. um But it's inspired so many other things, too. Well, what was the the the last cannibal cannibal movie that we watched? Oh, God, I don't know. It was like a reality show, remember?
01:25:42
Speaker
Oh, ah wrong turn. Wrong turn too. Yeah. oh Oh my God. So like like that that wouldn't exist without this. You know what I mean? True. True. True. So it's just it's done so much in the genre. um And you know, who would have thought and a sixty ah but eighty thousand dollar movie that is eighty three minutes long. um We'd still be talking about it 50 years later. And it would have inspired so many other movies. Yeah, for sure.
01:26:07
Speaker
Well, here at Fraggy the 13th Horror Podcast, we rate on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. Maddie, what do you give the Texas giant Chainsaw Massacre? I gave it a six and I said an odd, wild and terrifying masterpiece, a fictional peek into the desolate farm field of America with a chilling lore only the locals know.
Film Critique: American Gothic
01:26:28
Speaker
The inspiration for so many other films still lives up to its own legendary status.
01:26:34
Speaker
And I gave it a 4.5 and I said, well, I definitely appreciate this movie for its addition to horror. After the first two acts, I kind of do lose a little bit of interest. Fair enough. So folks, that does it for the Texas chainsaw massacre. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our next, uh, film of the, of the episode, American Gothic.
01:27:02
Speaker
word psychiatry doesn't throw around the way we used to. When you need to forget. I'm thinking of taking on a little trip back to the islands. What could be better than a
01:27:20
Speaker
I can't fix it.
01:27:58
Speaker
birthday party. um What harm could you come to playing with the child?
01:28:20
Speaker
be no devil's play in this house. That child never does finish a chore.
01:28:34
Speaker
Is your friend coming or not? You gotta have patience, son. You should learn to read the good book.
01:29:00
Speaker
It's not just a painting anymore. It is also a movie that won the Oscar for best picture in 1988. Andrew's going to tell us all about American Gothic. Andrew, tell us.
01:29:12
Speaker
The family that slays together stays together. when ah ah When six friends fly off on a weekend getaway and are suddenly plagued by engine trouble, they're forced to land on a remote island. Looking for shelter, they are grateful to encounter Ma and Pa and their children, an eccentric family living in the island's backwoods.
01:29:36
Speaker
But what begins as a simple as simple hospitality turns into a terrifying race for survival as the friends start disappearing one by one and turning up dead. Directed by John Ho, written by Michael Vines and Bert Wettenson. Production and distribution were handled by, handled by Virgin Vision. Paw is played by Rod Steiger.
01:30:00
Speaker
Ma is played by Yvonne DiCarlo, Cynthia is played by Sarah Torgoff, Fanny is played by Janet Wright, Woody is played by Michael J. Pollard, Teddy is played by William Hootkins, Jeff is played by Mark Erickson, Terry is played by Caroline Barclay, Rob is played by Mark Lindsey Chapman, Lynn by Fiona Hutchinson, and Paul by Steven Schellen.
01:30:22
Speaker
This is not rated, but I'm sure it would be an R rating. yeah um it's gay It comes in an 89 minutes. It was ah made in the Bowen Island of Vancouver, British Columbia, and it was released on May 20th of 1988. American Gothic, I have my own story with this movie, but I believe this was a first time watch for Maddie, so I want to get your initial thoughts.
01:30:45
Speaker
Oh, it's definitely one of those where like, I mean, I think you you know how I work, Andrew. And I think listeners of the show know how I work by now, too. um And it is this. I watch something and I really dislike it. And then I hate it for like a day like like like an intense hatred. I'm mad at it. i'm I'm pissed off that I had to watch this thing. And then I soften a little bit by the time that we actually record. and So that is that is also what happened here. um And like, look, this is definitely not my favorite.
01:31:15
Speaker
Have I seen worse? Absolutely. Now, why am I saying this though? I mean, look. This is a movie definitely of its time. ah You watch this, and if you didn't know what year it was, you could guess the decade in a fucking heartbeat. It's really not that hard. um And I think it just suffers from that. It just suffers from its 80s-ness. It's so 80s. And it's not just like American 80s, it's like Canadian 80s. So it's even like cornier. And um it's it's corny in the writing, It's corny in the acting for fucking sure.
01:31:52
Speaker
And um and I think it's a little bit of a shame because I you know i was, ah you you know, you know, Jamie, ah ah Jamie Grayson. and We were talking about it on threads, actually. And, you know, he was talking about how he's got the Blu-ray somewhere and how he kind of grew up with it, too. And, you know, we were both agreeing. It's like it's this awful shit. um But we were both also like, you know, God, the story is actually not bad. it's It's almost a shame that like some of so much of it is corny. And, i you know, i I think this would be an interesting candidate for for a reboot.
01:32:21
Speaker
And I really, I'm not being trite. I really do mean that. um Because I think that there's something actually good there. I just think some of the stuff gets like, oh man, like as soon as fucking Janet Wright walks on his Fanny.
01:32:35
Speaker
girl, I fucking lost it. Like she is dressed up as literally little orphan Annie in a please don't wake my baby. Oh my God. And like after a while it just starts to feel, it just starts to feel like a, like a B minus movie. I mentioned a minus before it starts to feel like a B minus all of a sudden. And it it even comes down to like, like when they're eating dinner and I'm being really nitpicky right now, I know, but like,
01:33:00
Speaker
When they're eating dinner together, like after the people have already gotten to the house and this thing and that thing, like the dinner is so like clearly slap-dash, not put together well kind of thing. like I'm like, who's doing the set for this? Who's doing anything? And like if they had spent a little bit more time on it, I don't know. Maybe some of those things could have worked. Now, there are some things that really do work.
01:33:18
Speaker
right um So who's the guy that dies by the swing? Which one is that? i believe rob That is rob that Rob. Rob is the one that that Fanny likes. So it must have been. No, that's Jeff. That's Jeff. No, Jeff is the F is the blonde guy. So, yeah, Rob, Rob gets in the swing. That's a really effective scene.
01:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, um because I remember that one haunting my childhood. Oh, for sure. And like, you know, what if you I'm going to guess everyone has been on a swing set before, um but especially when you are a kid back in the day, you know, maybe not today with their cell phones and everything. God, I sound so old right now.
01:33:52
Speaker
But like back in the day, you know, your friends would push you higher and higher and higher and you'd look down. It was it was honestly kind of scary. And like I always like my sister was so good at jumping off of the of the swings. And I was always way too scared to jump off mid flight.
01:34:08
Speaker
Um, but like, you know, if you're a kid that remembers that, that scene definitely affected you. For sure. Well, he's strapped in too. Oh yeah. Like he is in the fucking thing. And when fucking, what is it? Is it Woody? It must be Woody. When Woody gets up there with that fucking axe, I'm like, you little motherfucker. You're fucking like, What the fuck, man? So then he just goes sailing off over the cliff, which I also kind of laughed at. I'm not going to lie, um because it's because like the image of it was kind of funny. It's ridiculous. yeah Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. But once again, an effective scene. It's like when that kid good kid goes off the cliff and Mac and me in his wheelchair. Totally. Like, come on. How are you not going to laugh at that shit? And then, you know, there are there are other effective scenes, too. Like when Fanny introduces the baby.
01:34:50
Speaker
Right. Like that is I mean, at first glance, it does seem to be, you know, what is this corny fucking little alien baby that that they have there? But actually, it does kind of work in a weird way. When they unwrap it, when they unwrap it at the end, it was pretty gross. Oh, yeah. And then, you know, who's the which one of the girls is the one that that like stays to the end? What's her name?
01:35:13
Speaker
ah That is Cynthia. That's Cynthia. So like when Cynthia, you know after she's sort of like She's sort of like in the cult kind of or whatever. Yeah, she's got the hysterical woman syndrome. Yeah, exactly of the eighty s yeah So after she like, you know, basically, you know becomes one of them and she starts to fight with Fanny over the baby That scene is really interesting too and how how she's flashing in and out of is this a real baby? Is it not a real baby? What's going on? And And then when she tears its fucking head off in the fight, that's wild. And, you know, once again, pretty well done. So, you know, look, there are definitely there's a lot about this that I really don't like, and i I don't care to watch it again. But I am, you know, trying to find some some good stuff here. And like I said, there are some good things. If this got rebooted, I would definitely watch it.
01:35:59
Speaker
Yeah, so this is one for me. I've definitely seen before this is one of those VHS covers that always got me like when I was fair enough. like Yeah, sure. And if you know the VHS cover, you know it. It looks just like the painting, but it's Mon Pa from this movie and then in the in the window up above them are all these people like pressed up against the window trying to get out like they're being tortured. Yeah. And so like I just remember this one always haunting me and then finally renting it and And listen, from little kid eyes, I thought this was a terrifying movie. But sure now that I look at back on it from adult eyes, I realized that they were. And I don't think that they're as successful as they could have been, because I think that if they would have just gone high camp, like through the whole thing, true it maybe would have been a little bit more effective. But they choose to kind of.
01:36:47
Speaker
mix the high camp of the family with the various ah with the very serious subject matter of a woman who lost a child on it to an accident, you know what I mean? sure And so the juxtaposition of those two things I think fight against each other and ah don't really always work. I think that when they commit to you know a scene like the guy getting in the swing and they're singing London Bridge is Falling Down or whatever, and like that kind of thing, that's when it works. You know what I mean? like when you when get that When you commit to the bit, it works, but you can't commit to the bit of like these three adult children. and
01:37:22
Speaker
um and their wacky religious parents with like the story of like a woman trying to go on a vacation to grieve her death of her child. You know what I mean? It's it's <unk> it's a weird mix. I will give you that. um But I think that for me, it's the it's the wackiness of the family that keeps me going through the movie. get that yeah because our our main characters are very vanilla. Like they're none of them. I mean, you just had to ask me who was who because none of them really like stand out. You know, yeah, sure, sure. um And then we have one character, Paul, who's probably the cutest of him being honest. excuse him Yeah. ah Who just gets left in the movie like he he leaves the movie like. but but I honestly kind of forgot about that. You're absolutely right. he doesn like it it's so funny because it's It's so funny because Jeff says to him, like okay ah you you know ah Paul, you stay back here to watch the plane. We're going to go look for help or whatever. And I'm thinking to myself, the plane isn't running right now. So yeah why do you have why do you have to watch it?
01:38:25
Speaker
like it's There's literally nothing to watch, man. Right. And so, and then we go through like two or three nights of staying with these, with this, this family without bringing up Paul at all, without saying, Hey, uh, we should probably go get Paul and tell him what's going on. Or Hey, we should probably connect with Paul and see if he wants to come be in the warm house for a night in a bed instead of sleeping in a tent in the middle of the woods.
01:38:53
Speaker
So I gotta just feel bad for Paul and then when he shows up dead at the end in the in the boat I was like, well that sucks for Paul. Yes my god um I do think that some of my my favorite characters. I I think that Terry is probably my favorite character She's kind of the one that like takes charge and is like has the flare gun to Fanny and like actually get some shit done Yeah, unfortunately, she suffered a horrible death and probably one of the worst scenes in the movie or like implied necrophilia but Listen, this one's wacky. This is a wacky movie. If you've never seen it, um I mean, go in cautiously because it's it's a little goofy. It's a whack job. It's a whack job. But I gotta say, like to have someone like Woody in a movie where this you know Michael J. Pollard, I've seen him and seen him in other things. Yeah, sure.
01:39:42
Speaker
But to see him just playing this weirdo character to where you really don't know what his motivations are because he at first is just like, oh, and that's the other thing I think is so funny about the movie is that the children just keep popping up out of nowhere throughout the movie. Like you think there's only Fanny and then you think there's only Fanny and Woody and then you think there's only Fanny, Woody and Teddy. And you're like, OK, where's the fourth one? Like, where's the other one going to come from?
01:40:07
Speaker
Um, but you don't know what his motivations are because when, when, um, Teddy, ah you know, quote unquote accidentally kills Terry, ah he's off in the woods and he's watching him and he's saying, I'm going to tell on you, you, you killed her. And so I was like, well, you killed, um, Rob. So what are your motivations here? Like, I don't really understand like, and you're chasing these women throughout the woods trying to capture them. So I don't, it's, it's a little weird. And then, you know, we find out by the end that they have killed multiple people on this Island because there's the,
01:40:37
Speaker
adult um what did was she call them adult dollies in the seller, which I do think is ah an interesting touch. Unfortunately, I don't know, where did you where did you watch this?
01:40:51
Speaker
Uh, I honestly forget how I watched it and I, maybe I was watching on YouTube actually. Did it, did it look good? Like, was it clear or was it like VHS? Because the one I watched was actually really clear and that was to its detriment because there are definitely two parts. There's the part where Paul shows up in the boat and they soak him with a fuel to light them on fire. Uh, there's definitely a part where he accidentally blinks because they're pouring liquid on him and then There's another part where I forget the girl's name. Who was the Lynn when she is hanging up in the ah that the big dolly room where she's kind of like has so funny because she has a tongue. out And there's definitely a part where she blinks, too. And so I was like, well, I mean, when they filmed this, they probably didn't see that. But now that it's been put in like HD, you know, Blu-ray format, we can kind of see some of these these flaws.
01:41:46
Speaker
um I know another thing that you wanted to talk about and I also wanted to kind of bring to the forefront is the soundtrack and or score to this movie. Oh, man. So the movie opens with them getting getting out of a psychiatric hospital and then immediately because I guess these people are fucking rich because they're they live in Seattle and they have their own private plane. um But they they they're flying to the islands And this music that is playing, it felt like I was watching an episode of Wings. Like if I was getting like it was it. So the the guy that did the music is Alan Parker. and And I don't. I'm sure both of us don't really know him. um Looking at at the other movies that he's done, that he's composed for, he the the most notable would definitely be What's Eating Gilbert Grape, which is very strange that he did that.
01:42:37
Speaker
but then also JAWS 3D. Other things would be, I've never even heard of these. Anyways, um it's it's it's not great. It reminded me of the worst version of the Tremors ah yeah because it's got a lot of that like twangy music. That makes sense. But it comes in at the oddest times. Well, yeah. And like and I'm glad you said Twangy because I think that's a bit of what doesn't make sense about it. You know, we're not in Alabama. We're in bri Vancouver, and Vancouver. Right. or Or, you know, wherever how we want to think of it could be, you know, on the American side or it could be on the Canadian side.
01:43:14
Speaker
whatever, like, there ain't no twang over there, you know what I mean? And so it it it it comes down to what you and I talk about a lot what with with these with these movies is, you know, where's the attention to detail? And yeah like, and that is something that there should have been, and this is what I'm saying, like, if done correctly, this might be kind of, you know, kind of kind of good. ah You know, you mentioned Michael J. Pollard back there, I'm glad you did. Like, the people in this cast weren't nobodies. Michael J. Pollard was in Bonnie and Clyde in 1967. I'm looking at his Wikipedia right now. That got him critical acclaim and nominations for an Academy Award, a British Film Award and two Golden Globe Awards. So it's it's not like these people were like the actors. These were in and Rod Steiger is a a big deal. And ah and even Yvonne DiCarlo, like they these are not not people. like I mean, like fucking fucking Rod Steiger was in on the waterfront, man.
01:44:07
Speaker
Like, with Marlon Brando. Like, that's a big fucking deal. He was with Sidney Poitier in The Heat of the Night. I mean, like, that that's a big thing. If used correctly, a lot of these people could have could have been really good. I just don't think that they were. And especially, like, casting Rod Steiger. Rod Steiger would have grown up in the American theater Like at the time when realism was something very new to America and like and and this this is some theater nerd shit but like just throw it out there like nobody in America was acting that way before the realist started doing it.
01:44:41
Speaker
and it came from russia and and in russia they were already doing this i know that's kinda weird but it's true and it took a long time for it to come over to to america and it it took it took um the group theater with a number of of like the american theater like god's basically like like cliff o'dets and a lot of other people to to bring that style to America. And Rod Steiger would have been a student of that style. So what I'm getting at here is this. You're gonna take a realist that acts in like Clifford Odette's plays and like in Chekhov plays and put him in American Gothic as the father. Do you see what I'm saying here? as the as the As the, what would you call him? The radical Catholic. Yeah, I guess and it's just like i i I don't know. Maybe that casting didn't make a lot of sense. that that That's what I'm really getting at here. he He is the one to me that kind of sticks out as like not going goofy enough for being in the family. you he because that He doesn't know how.
01:45:42
Speaker
Yeah, he literally doesn't know how he would have never been trained for that ever. um And i can I'm looking at at um the rest of his filmography right now. I forgot that he was in the Amityville horror. So like maybe that was a bit of the decision to bring him into this. Sure. That's possible.
01:46:00
Speaker
Um, a couple of things that I just have starred in my notes here that, that stood out in this movie is there is one line delivery that I i had, my mouth was a gape is when they are stranded on the island for the first night and they all kind of like stay up, uh, drinking coffee and beer and stuff. And they go to bed and they wake up and, and Terry comes out of her, her tent and she goes, I think I'm going to go scuba diving. Anybody want to come? And I was like, what?
01:46:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And also, um, that plane is small. You think you're just carrying around some scuba equipment with you on that? I know. That's what I was thinking. I was like, how much luggage can they really fit on that scuba shit is fucking heavy, dude. I doubt it's going to be on your little tiny prop plane well and they have like three.
01:46:43
Speaker
large tents, sleeping bags, like all this stuff. Where's your seven thirty seven parked, Miss? Show me where. um Another part that I thought that was just so evil was when Lynn and Cynthia are talking and Lynn is going on and on about Fanny and that she doesn't know that Fanny can hear her, but she was like her face. Her quote is that bloated, ugly, ugly face. ah She's just revolting. I mean, is that Andrew? Is it not kind of true? I know, but it's just so mean. But I'm like, God, if I had to look at that, too, I'd be like, gee, and I'm not even trying to be mean right now, but it's like the way that they do it, it makes her look even, you know, worse. It's hard. ah The other part that I thought was not funny, but it was just kind of weirdly not poetic. But it is funny that at the end, when he like denounces God, like right after he announces God, he gets shot in the back. of by like i I was laughing. Like, I mean, you know, once again, um a more thoughtful like use of religion here could have been actually, I think, really effective, but it just kind of turned into a big joke. Right. Yeah. And that's then that's what I mean about the movie is I don't think that they ah know that if they want to be a serious movie or a goofy movie. And I think that that's maybe why it doesn't play off for most
Final Thoughts and Ratings
01:48:05
Speaker
people. Yeah. um I mean, there's a line in this movie where
01:48:09
Speaker
Um, when, when ti Terry is trying to go scuba diving and she asks, um, Rob, if he wants to go with her and he goes, I only dive for muff, sweetheart. yeah and yeah if you If you want to be that movie, be that movie, but like.
01:48:26
Speaker
commit to it, you know. I i i completely agree with you. Andrew, anything else you want to mention about American Gothic? I think you have one thing in here about Leonard Malton, if you want to share that. Oh, yeah. um It's actually it's hard to read on my fucking printed page here one second. But let Leonard Malton, the the the very famous film critic, um did have a little quote that I thought was I thought was kind of funny. Where is it?
01:48:49
Speaker
Um, he said, uh, populated exclusively by obnoxious characters, even Steiger can't help this one. Um, a stultifying career low for all involved, which is just talk about a critic there. Um, Andrew, what did you rate American Gothic? I'm going to give American Gothic a four. I said it's camp. It's ridiculous, but I have fun with all the stupid of it all.
01:49:14
Speaker
And I I'm going to up mine a little bit and give it a three. And um and I said, well, it's ah definitely from the 80s. What an annoying movie from the writing to the acting to the can soundtrack. It's truly awful. So that does it for American Gothic. Well, I know Maddie is a member of the clean plate club. so You listen. No, that is fucking true. I am. I love cleaning my plate. um God, that reminds me. I used to work with this guy did.
01:49:41
Speaker
Um, and I, and he was a weirdo and one day I walked into his office and he was just finishing lunch. Right. I caught him licking his plate and obviously he saw him. Good food. He saw me catch him licking his plate and he didn't miss a beat. You know what he said to me? He said, waste not want not. And I,
01:50:04
Speaker
You know what, I still think about that to this very day. Anyways, folks, that does it for American Gothic. We'll be right back to close out the show. shante you stay chate you stay chante you stay chante you stay And folks, that was episode 135. Family is terrifying.
01:50:23
Speaker
Andrew, we're going to play a final quick game here called a hottie of the episode. Really hard rules as you guys. um It's basically just me and Andrew picking out who we think was the cutest. So Andrew, why don't you go ahead and go first and tell me who was your hottie of the episode?
01:50:39
Speaker
Well, I think I kind of gave myself away a little earlier, but it is the missing camper in American Gothic. Paul, played by Steven Schellen, is my hottie of the episode. I like his floppy hair and he's got those late 80s glasses on and I'm into it.
01:50:55
Speaker
that is That is wonderful. I'm gonna go, oh God, there's a whole lot to pick from in there here. um I'll go with, ah you know, I'm gonna go with the same, Andrew. i can't I can't pick anyone else out. The only other choice- I thought you may be gonna go with Kirk. I mean, I don't know. They're all, and like I said, there's not a whole lot of of great options here, but- I'm gonna take them, if you take the mullet off of Rob, he's not that bad of a looking guy. Yeah, very true. Yeah, yeah, not too bad.
01:51:23
Speaker
Anyways folks, hope you had fun with episode 135. Before we let you go, I do want to mention a really special shout out to some friends of ours in England in Stoke-on-Trent in Staffordshire. Our friends at Velicor Books, thank you for sending in a lovely holiday care package with a couple of really cool books. They sent me Dracula the Undead from Dacre Stoker.
01:51:47
Speaker
And they also sent me Christmas and Other Horrors edited by Ellen Datlow. If you are in England or in Europe or in the UK, I um check out the store. It's really wonderful. You can check them out at velicorbooks.co.uk. And that's V-E-L-L-I-C-H-O-R books.co.uk. They've got book clubs. you can you could They have a wonderful room that you can rent out there.
01:52:16
Speaker
It looks like a really cool place. when i'm When I'm in England next, I'm going to make it a point to to stop up there when when I'm in Stoke. um And something really cool, when you order books from them, they put in a little flyer about our podcast. So that's really nice. Oh, that's so nice. So thanks again, folks, for that lovely little care package. I really appreciated it. And also, I ate the candy canes right away. So thank you.
01:52:38
Speaker
All right. Well, um it hey, you can you can send us stuff. That's great. But you can also support us in other ways. Yes, you can. You can support us by becoming a patron on Patreon or you can buy merch at fraggy thirteen dot com slash support or search for us on Patreon. And, you know, just just thinking about the Patreon thing really quick, dudes, it's such a good deal um because, Andrew, what is the minimum to be a member of us on Patreon?
01:53:06
Speaker
One dollar. One dollar. and you know Look, we we call ourselves a proud independent podcast because we are. and We've been doing this now for almost seven years. Can you even fucking believe that, Andrew? It's absolutely insane. um but look like The only way way that we can keep that going, you we just don't want to have any losses because it does take money to run a podcast.
01:53:27
Speaker
So if you have not ah become a patron before, this is the time to do it. Do it for a dollar. Twelve bucks a year, honestly, really does help us out. um And it just means that we don't have to lose any money doing the podcast. We don't make any money, trust me, but we don't lose any money either. And we really appreciate all of our patrons who have been with us, some of them from the very beginning. um You guys really we we really appreciate you and we we really love how you love our show. So thank you.
01:53:57
Speaker
And you get access to the exclusive chat, which yes ah we have a chat for each episode and you get to chat with us and chat with other patrons. It's really cool. It's a really fun little, uh, little glimpse into the other side of the podcast, which is fun. And if you donate a hundred bucks a month, we're going to send you nudes. Okay. So sure if you want, if you want to do a hundred a month, uh, you get to see our our naughties. Congratulations. That's it. Go ahead, Andrew. What's next? Uh, well that will just about do it. I can't think of anything else for anyone to do, but for them to get slayed.