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EPISODE 130: HOOKUPS ARE TERRIFYING
1.2k Plays1 month ago
They’re sexy, they’re fun, and they’re also… terrifying! Listen in as Andrew and Matty dish it up about HOOKUPS!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
Ya better check Grindr… I think Frank from HELLRAISER and Moonlight Man from GERALD’S GAME just hit you up!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
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Transcript
Introduction and Health Apps
00:00:00
Speaker
Friday the 13th horror podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit Friday13.com.
00:00:11
Speaker
You know, with all the changing weather, I haven't been feeling great, I'm gonna be honest. Oh no! Well, did you go to the doctor? I don't think it's that serious, but but maybe I should look it up. I mean, there is an app for everything now. Yeah, okay, let let me look. Alright, symptoms, sniffles, cough. I mean, you could just get ZocDoc that'll hook you up with the doctor.
00:00:31
Speaker
oh Oh, hey, what's what's this one? Sniffies? ah Yeah, that that sounds exactly what I have. Oh, Andrew, at although at a time that may have been what you were looking for, i I don't think that's going to help your sickness. But it says, Pleasures But Feed Away. That's what I need.
Episode Milestones and Personal Journeys
00:00:47
Speaker
Oh, Andrew, it's episode 130. Hookups are terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper. in the
00:01:14
Speaker
Doubters, the doomsday, the gloomsters, they are going to get it
00:01:33
Speaker
da
00:01:43
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. sometimes this but Show of hands if you would. How many of you are in a relationship?
00:01:58
Speaker
they define relation vague In that newly released report called The Talk, Harvard researchers saw a stunning trend that young people ages 18 to 25 appear to be less sexually active than their parents were at those ages.
00:02:13
Speaker
As for serious relationships, millennial women we spoke with seem to be ready. and I feel like anytime I'm intimate with someone, there is, I can't help it, like there's emotions attached for me personally. Guys tell us they want to commit but are sorting it all out. At an age this early, I might not consider myself a good enough person to be a partner with because I hold myself to a standard that I haven't reached yet. You agree with that?
00:02:38
Speaker
Welcome to Friday the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Matty. And I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time with us on f Friday gay the 13th Horror Podcast, we are the podcast that talks about horror. Horror in real life and in the movies from an LGBT perspective. This is our 130th episode. Yay us. Congratulations to you and me, Andrew.
00:03:02
Speaker
um And ah look, if you're new, you've got a lot of other content that you are welcome to go through. So go back and have a listen to some really cool stuff. Andrew, I'll tell you, ah you know our last episode was about graveyards. So I want to tell you something cool. oh I got to go to Croatia for the very first time ah last week, two weeks ago, whatever it was.
00:03:24
Speaker
And um that is where my family is from, right? And we, no, we, it was just me. um I was in split, which is right on the Adriatic coast. And um I was there for five days. And one of the days I rented a car. Cool. Took the car. up to this little, little, when I say little, I mean it is extremely tiny village called Lovrech. It's in Imotsky up in the north. um it's It's still in Dalmatia, but it's in northern Dalmatia and it's it's like right on the border of Bosnia kind of.
00:03:57
Speaker
And that is where my family's from and I've never been before. And no one in my family has gone back to this place in 117 years. I am the first one to go back. And so I was really nervous about going because I i wasn't ready to meet anybody yet. Do you know what I mean? like I just wanted to kind of go up there and see it. And it was super emotional for me, as as you might imagine. It was really, really cool.
00:04:22
Speaker
And so like I kind of drove around. It literally takes about 10 seconds to drive through this place, by the way. um but And it's really cute. And it's really beautiful. It's right in the hills. And like you can look out. And the generic Alps are there. And it's just it's absolutely stunning. But blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:04:37
Speaker
I found the old church right i think it's the church of the holy spirit if i remember correctly and this is where guarantee you my great grandpa and everyone after and before they would have gone to church and outside of there is a graveyard and so i got to go to a graveyard.
00:04:55
Speaker
Wait, excuse me. I think that would be a cemetery. No, no, no. A graveyard. is oh Am I getting it wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just switched around. And so in this graveyard, I got to see... It's a little morbid, but like look, everyone here is is a horror fan. I got to see my name all over the place. Wow. And it was actually really cool. like I mean, i've got a I've got a pretty unique last name for America and for Ireland for that matter too.
00:05:20
Speaker
um And so to be in a place where like my name is like common and all over the gravestones was wild. It was absolutely wild. um And it was really, really cool. And it was so neat. It was such ah such a lovely, lovely day. But one other little fun thing that happened then too.
00:05:39
Speaker
I'm in this graveyard and I'm looking around at everything and I just happened to see this patch of shamrocks, clovers. and um you know it's It's interesting for me because I live in Ireland, obviously, and um you know everyone always like dreams of finding a four-leaf clover. I've never found one before. and so i am you know i i I was FaceTiming my siblings, showing them these graves. I found the one for my great-great-great grandfather, all that kind of stuff.
00:06:04
Speaker
And I come upon this little patch of shamrocks, and literally, Andrew, I look down and i and I think to myself, what's the chance of me finding a four-leaf clover here? And I shit you not. The first one that I fucking bend down to get is a four-leaf fucking clover. Wow. Is that not crazy?
00:06:24
Speaker
That's fun. It felt it literally felt like my ancestors were saying, like, thank you for being there. It was really, really fucking cool. Anyways, I just had to talk about that. No, no, no, that's really cool. I'm glad you got to you have that experience. I know you've been talking about it for a number of years. i You went over there, so I'm glad you finally got to do it. It was beautiful. And then after that, I drove I drove back down. the I went to a winery that's in the village now. Beautiful winery. I bought a bunch of wine, drove the car back down to the Adriatic Coast and then all the way back up to Split. It was one of the best days I've ever had.
00:06:55
Speaker
I also just traveled to a childhood place. yeah um went to um ah my My little brother just got married and hu went and traveled through the ah the ah wonderful village of Misik, Michigan. but when Whenever I hear Misik, I always think of um Mr. Misik's.
00:07:23
Speaker
But unfortunately, the sign got taken down home of the 1983 baseball runner ups. um they um They almost had it back then in 83. But you know what? They still have not one, but two dollar stores. So you know they're they're doing well up there. Not to compare, but I just think you know maybe.
00:07:47
Speaker
ah That's perfect. Also, Andrew, um listeners will know of my foibles in Ireland of not getting my driver's test passed.
Hookup Culture and Sexual Identity
00:07:55
Speaker
and Guess who finally passes driver's test on the third try?
00:07:59
Speaker
Congratulations. I want to throw in like a like yeah big applause there. That's awesome. Very, very, like I'm finally get a fucking car. Anyways, Andrew, this episode, we've got fun things to talk about today. Um, hookups are, hookups are fun. Yeah. I mean, hookups are crazy and hookups, as we know from the title of this episode, can be very terrifying as well.
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, when I think of like hook up, I mean, listen, I have been let's quote unquote out of the game for her like a number of long, a long time. A lot's changed since then. But like I.
00:08:36
Speaker
I just think about like the hookup culture that we because, you know, like we are in a different and in age, but but we're still like around the same yeah like journey. You know what I mean? Like as far as like technology and whatnot. um So I thought we'd talk a little bit about just like how hookup culture has changed and even like in our generation.
00:09:00
Speaker
Um, yeah, a lot. It's a lot. It's the Internet is a lot. Well, it's it the Internet. But then if I'm being honest, like also like we've changed and I know I don't that sounds dumb, but like there was a time when I was really like prudish about hookup culture in a very, in a very strange way.
00:09:23
Speaker
And I was pretty sure about talking about it, but do you think actions speak louder than words? yeah I mean, like it's I don't know if if when I think back to it, it's like. I don't know all the reasons why I was so prudish about it, but I was really against it for a long time. I was really against, like, getting onto Grindr or getting onto whatever, and I refused to have them on my phone for a while. And I think it's just because, like, I don't think it was because, like, I had, like, a latent, like, hatred of myself for being gay. I think I had this weird expectation of myself to, like, quote-unquote, be better than that. And, like, when I look back at that now,
00:10:05
Speaker
When I look back at that now, I'm kind of like sad for that person. I just see yeah, I mean, i'm I'm very much in the same camp. I I did. I was not on the apps until much later. Yeah. Mostly because I was a Palm Pilot person. No, i I mean, I had a Blackberry for a while. It wasn't available for it.
00:10:25
Speaker
um But like i i I'm right there with you is where I had this like inherent shame about like that that's it sort of thing. like I don't know. And I don't know what it was because like i I probably wasted my most attractive years not looking up. But listen, I look back at those photos of me but that right about back then. And I'm like, you idiot, you were so hot. You were gorgeous. Jesus. um But no, i mean what i what I will say, though, is that I'm really glad that I don't have that anymore. um And, you know, for me, after my my relationship ended ah ah almost 10 years ago now, it's been a very long time. ah That's what I really did was like i i something in me just finally. but You know what? Fuck this. like I couldn't do whatever I want. And it's OK.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I got over that shame and um and did get on the apps and and have used them throughout the years um to have sexual experiences that are meaningful to me and that are fun. And it's been ah an interesting thing to navigate and they have changed so much. that Everything is so different even now. um And then they also change based on geography. You know, like the way that like men behave here on apps is very different than how they behave in America. Um, or like, you know, if, if, you're if you're in America, the way that you might use grinder, let's say, or really any of them in like a rural setting, as opposed to an urban setting is really interesting. You know, a lot of people in rural areas, they use it like just to like meet people, like not just for hookups, but just for like, yeah knowing who might be around you. um So it's really interesting to think about is how it how it's changed so much and how it still differs so much based on where you actually are. Yeah, no, I. I this is it like, let's just say this right off the bat, like, you know, Fraggle the 13th or podcast is very sex positive podcast for consenting adults. I think that, you know, kind of anything goes like this is this is a short life and the
00:12:30
Speaker
I fell down like a little bit of a rabbit hole because of the election and because um abortion is just like so at the top of like so many things right now. of course And I fell into this rabbit hole, these people that think like,
00:12:48
Speaker
like, sex is only for conception. And I was like, this is so fucking stupid. Like, no, like it as I'm sorry. You can. those Those are the same people glued to Pornhub every night when their spouse goes to sleep. Are you fucking kidding me?
00:13:03
Speaker
That's what I mean, like, it you know, like, take it down to religion. Like, a God would not make it pleasurable if he did not want you to, like, have it. You know, there's there there's there's a wonderful quote from Desmond Tutu that I think about often, who was the the former archbishop and in South Africa. And he once said it's not about hookups, of course, but it was about it was about being gay. yeah But I think it applies to a lot of things. He once said, um Like if if he why basically why would he want gay people to be celibate and what he said was that that would be like giving a bird wings and telling it not to fly brand and I've thought about that so much over the years and since I first heard it and it's absolutely true and you know the the idea that any sort of divine creator would create you only to limit you is just stupid absolutely fucking dumb.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. So let's talk a little bit about hookup culture in general. So before us, ah before the Internet, there was cruising and there, there I mean, there continues to be cruising, but in a different capacity. So let's talk a little bit about the hanky code. So this is a huge thing in gay culture, you know, not so much anymore, but in the 70s and 80s. People do still do it. They do.
00:14:23
Speaker
ah you know, what basically what this was is you were either you had either a hanky in your back pocket or, you know, somewhere on your side around your neck or something. Yeah. Yeah. That would indicate what kind of sex you were into. ah So I'll just kind of go through the these are the mainstays. I'm sure that within hanky culture, there is a lot more um sure innuendos or whatever. but one These are like the main ones. um Black means that you were in the S and&M.
00:14:53
Speaker
dark blue means you are into or looking for anal sex, light blue, oral sex, brown, scat. Green, you are in you are looking for either a hustler or a prostitution, so you're looking to pay for it, thus the green, thus the capitalistic side of the culture. gray, looking for bondage, orange, you're kind of just like, you know what, I'm out for a good time, anything goes. Purple is, I didn't, and I had not heard this one, but purple, I guess was piercing, which I don't really know what that, I mean, I guess you're just looking to get pierced. I'm interested, but red, fisting and yellow is pissing or urine, if you will.
00:15:40
Speaker
water sports. um And like, listen, like I think that this comes from a time where, you know, gay, mostly gay men, I'm sure that this bled into other cultures like ah Studio 54 and like all that stuff. But like this was a time where people had to be more secretive about their sexual like pleasures and what they wanted. And I think that this is like a very interesting time in gay culture that was like how did this become a thing? Do you know what I mean? Did you ever thought about that? Who started this? There's so many little nuances about culture from the pre-internet times. For example, gay men in England had to develop their own slang. I think we've talked about this before at some point too. But it was called Polari. And it was sort of like a Cockney, Hackney kind of thing. And it was like its own dialect in London.
00:16:40
Speaker
and ah it grew up around hookup culture it's it's you know we we always find our own ways to find each other and we always find our own ways to build our own community and i think this is you know for for. Quote unquote straight people who hate our community so much they always try to reduce us to sex.
00:16:59
Speaker
they they are They are obsessed with our sex lives. And I think it's because they just don't understand it. And like they don't get it. And they don't understand why we do the things that we do. And like it's at the end of the day, it's not that fucking hard to understand. When you legislate us, when you try to legislate us out of existence, and when you try to oppress us constantly, we have to go underground to form our community.
00:17:25
Speaker
and underground communities have to have their own languages to support themselves in order to in order to communicate whether that's by this or by that in this case it was by hankies or it's in another case it was by its own dialect and now it it happens to be on our phones using using hookup apps. right? We always are going to find those things to create it and they can't be a part of it, right? And that's why they're so fucking obsessed with it. They're so obsessed with it because they can't have it. They can't have power over it. They can't have Grindr. They can't have hanky culture and it drives them insane that they can't, that they can't control it. Do you know what I mean?
00:18:03
Speaker
Well yeah no that leads me directly to my next story ah and that is that we punish the things that we exactly don't understand or that we can have power over and that leads directly to george michael sure i'm george michael was arrested for loot conduct terrible um terrible what they did to that man terrible and i i I remember when George Michael died and and just thinking, God, I think I watched like a 2020 document. It was like very like um right after he died slapstick put together, like quick documentary thing. sure You know what I mean? Like just for basically just for views, essentially. But I remember just watching this and being like, God, we treated this man so awful. Like we did.
00:18:51
Speaker
The way that he was treated just for seeking out like human connection. Yeah, like it. It fucking boggles my mind. Like it's terrible. And essentially like he was just entrapped by the police. Like that was entrapment. Like there's no other way of looking around it. Like he was suggested into a situation that he acted upon. That is police entrapment. Like I i there's no other way around it.
00:19:19
Speaker
that's That is completely it. And it's, you know once again, trying to control the way that we have to find each other to live ah to live ah ah ah an even slightly normal and pleasurable life. right And in this case, you know George Michael came from a very different era and you know he died in what, 2016 it was. right So 2016 apps were certainly available, all of that. But George Michael would have grown up in a very different time. And he grew up he grew up in the 80s. That's when he was doing this. And not only that, he was one of the biggest stars in the entire world. He couldn't exactly like just you know go out and hook up with anybody. right And so like he he had to go anonymous. And that's that's that's how he did it. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with it.
00:20:07
Speaker
No shame in that. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't matter if you go to a park to find it. does It doesn't matter if you go to church to find it. You can do whatever you want because you're a consenting adult. That's end of story. And even in 2016, even in England, right? So like, you know, it's not like, I mean, listen, there's, there's a lot of conservatives in there right now, but it's not like it's the most conservative place in the world, even there.
00:20:32
Speaker
in one of the biggest cities in the world, even there, they'll they'll shame you for it. They'll make you feel like a shit for it. It's it's it's it's appalling. Absolutely appalling. Just look it back at his career. He didn't appear in his own music video in Freedom because it was a protest against the how people were coming after him. I think that's just terrible.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about like our time, like our, let's say, generation. I don't where i put that in quotations. But um ah so we grew up and became sexually active in a time of the Internet, for sure.
00:21:10
Speaker
Um, I don't know about you, but, uh, my earliest memories of this kind of like hookup culture or chat rooms. Oh yeah. Um, definitely went into chat rooms when I was younger than I should have been. I'm not going to lie. Uh, but posing as, but you were exploring. I mean, but yeah yeah that's how you learn.
00:21:33
Speaker
Um, and then also we come upon some of the earliest, uh, I mean, they were, they were hookup apps of the time that they were just web websites. sure Um, the two that come to mind for me. but Oh, I forgot about manhunt, but, yeah um, gay dot.com and Adam for Adam, Adam, for Adam, right? Yes. Or the two that I remember, um, on my list.
00:21:54
Speaker
ah Yeah, I didn't use Craigslist all that much cuz it was so antiquated it was it was but but I mean look it did the trick you know back you know funny enough I did put a ah Missed connections on Craigslist that I actually got returned to no way Wow Yeah, I was coming home. This is when I first moved to Chicago. I was coming home from a concert um on the south side. It was at Reggie's. And I was coming all the way back up to the north side. And I got off I think at Fullerton, it must have been to transfer. And there was this guy reading a book and I thought he was really cute. And I thought we had like a, you know, you know, you know what this is. You have make eye contact and you're kind of like gay. gay yeah Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And um then there was this other person on the tracks that was puking on the tracks. And so I put on Miss Connections on Craigslist and I said, puking girl on Fullerton Redline. And oh my god back we never met up, but he did email me and say like, Hey, yeah, that was me. dotda da da So that's really cool.
00:23:01
Speaker
Um, I actually, my, my first time with a guy was because of Yahoo chat rooms. Sure. Yeah. Uh, met this guy through Yahoo chat rooms and we met up and that was kind of my first sexual experience with a guy. And I, I i distinctly remember like coming out of that apartment and being like, Oh my God, I did it. I finally did it. Like I finally like, just like i I did it. Like this is awesome. I'm i'm free of like this.
00:23:31
Speaker
I felt so free of all of the shame and all of the confusion and all of just like everything that I've been feeling for so long.
Digital Evolution and Safety in Hookups
00:23:42
Speaker
And like it just opened me up to like a brand new world of just like being me. You know what I mean? No, I get it. And then, you know, going back to what I was saying before, like I think that's another thing that like the right doesn't get about us is that sex is liberation for us.
00:23:57
Speaker
because it is intrinsically bound up in our identity and who we actually are in who and in our attraction um and and in our desire and in the very core of of who we are and and how we love and who we love um and in whatever sense you want love to be right um and i think for some people hookups are love something wrong with that.
00:24:19
Speaker
um and And honestly, it doesn't have to be love. It can just be pleasure. just that but that that That's what I mean. it's It's whatever you want it to be. And and it doesn't it doesn't matter what anyone else defines it as, as long as you and that person or those people that you're with are enjoying it. And and once again, consenting. Who gives a flying fuck?
00:24:40
Speaker
And that's just the thing about it is, you know, for so many people on the right who who claim to want small government and nobody messing around in their business and but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this bullshit. Wait, they sure love to fuck with us, don't they? Sure love to fuck with us. I get it. I mean, look, I i think for me, um i I had hooked up before, but like like in college, of course, and we didn't have any apps back then. um I mean, there were there were websites, but I didn't use them.
00:25:06
Speaker
um But my my first hookup would it would have come from Craigslist. And ah you know for some of you won't even know what that is. So Craigslist was like, um it was in different cities and it would have been like Chicago dot Craigslist dot com, right? yeah yeah yeah And you could put up posts about a whole lot of shit. You could sell stuff, you could do this, you could do that. it's I found many apartments through Craigslist. And then you could also go on with the M for M or the F for F or you know, the whatever, you know, sort of like the sex hookup parts of the website. It was personals. Yeah, personals. you And you you could post a personal and you could say whatever you want and you could add photos into and you could add nude photos if you want to do as well. There was no restriction on it.
00:25:49
Speaker
And it it it would go it would work through email then, but it would never give your email address. And then if you responded to somebody, it also wouldn't give their email address. It just kept working through the system and it would it it would encode your email address over and over again so that you never knew who the other person was and and they didn't know who you were until you eventually revealed that, right?
00:26:11
Speaker
And so um yeah that was that was that um and it was you know it was interesting and I think I got kind of freaked out after that for a while and then and then I use Grindr a bit before I met my my ex-fiancee and then ah during that time I didn't use it and then um after that is when I got back on again and and and that that was also when I learned that the world really changed.
00:26:35
Speaker
So I remember um after we had broken up, getting onto the apps and seeing like all this new talk about prep. And I had kind of heard about it a little bit, but like I hadn't thought about it at all, because I was in a what I thought was a monogamous relationship. And um that I learned, like oh, wait a minute. People are having sex differently now. yeah Because you know when we were coming up in the world, we were terrified of HIV.
00:27:02
Speaker
tear red. Oh, it was a random city. Oh, and I was only condoms. And then all of a sudden I was seeing all these people who suddenly wanted to bear back. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, what is, what is going on in the world? And so I remember feeling like, wow, things have changed so much. Um, and you know, even down to today, I mean, look, I'm 42 years old. I'm still on the apps and you know what? I feel pretty good about it. And like for me,
00:27:27
Speaker
If I'm single, I can do whatever I want. If I'm in a relationship, then I have, you know, whatever restrictions me and my partner decide that we have together in a relationship. But until then, fuck anyone who thinks it's bad. Fuck anyone who thinks it's shameful. It's my life, buddy. And the way that I want to find pleasure and the way that I want to have fun, I will do it and I will continue to do it.
00:27:47
Speaker
one of my One of my favorite past times is when you would hand me your phone and I would be able to be your your swiper. Andrew, this giving, you can still do that. How about that? That's perfect. um I want to talk a little bit about weird hookups if you ever, because let's be honest with this is called hookups are terrifying. So what are some of the five had weird hookups?
00:28:12
Speaker
I mean, I'm sure you have, but um let's let ah let me give you an example of my my weirdest hookup. Listen, I've got a ton. You go right ahead. So my weirdest hookup comes from my time in Chicago before I met Michael.
00:28:29
Speaker
um I was out in Boys Town, um and if you don't understand like what this was, like I think this was, honestly, 12 years ago, but like there used to be a weird convergence of Wrigleyville being the straightest place in the world, and then Boys Town being the gayest place in the world, and they're literally two blocks of apart. They're right next to each other. Yeah, so there was this weird convergence, and I used to live kind of and kind of like in between like in near there, but south of there. okay And so I was walking home one night um from from being in Boys Town with friends. And I lived but within walking distance. So I was walking home and ah I got to this point and it was literally at Halstead and Clark right at that convergence of weird energy of like straight and gay. And I was getting ready to to cross. And this guy just stopped me and he was like,
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah you ah you're you're so you're so high. Like, do you want to, like, do you want to, like, do you want to kiss me? And I was like, ah I mean, I know, but i like, OK, like, I don't know what's happening. And he's like, I just have to tell you, I ah I just came from Wrigleyville and I just like broke up with my girlfriend and I just I just really want a new experience. And I was like, wow, is me.
00:29:49
Speaker
I was like, okay. andrew lookeded one in And I was like, I wasn't drunk, but I was definitely like under the influence. So like, I was like, this is very unique and I think I'm just going to roll with it. yeah fuck yeah But the weirdest thing about this guy is everything that we did. He was like, Oh, my girlfriend's going to hate this or my girlfriend's going to do that. My girlfriend's going to hate me for this. but And I was like,
00:30:14
Speaker
stop talking about your girlfriend like look can we just like get this done here but like yeah that was probably my weirdest experience and i still don't know to this day if that guy was just like putting on a front or if that was like actually what he was experiencing i was not sure if he was playing like a because you know people get into these weird things where they like to like play games but I was like you know what this guy is hot and I want to have sex with him so here we go hell yes good for you um god I've got a ah stack of of really strange ones um what's the weirdest one though the weirdest one I can think of up top my head um
00:31:00
Speaker
Uh, I, okay. There, there was a hookup that I had just before I moved to Ireland. And, um, Andrew, you would have been out with us that night would have been me, you, Michael Courtney, I would say. Okay. And you went home early and then me, Courtney and Michael stayed out and we went to the course for me. What was, um, what's that?
00:31:23
Speaker
What's the closet you bar? The closet, right? We went to the closet to do karaoke and to stay out late um because it would have been it would have been like one of my very last nights there. And um there was this really cute guy there and we started talking and we were hanging out and whatever. um And like Michael and Courtney definitely definitely knew that I was going to hook up with this guy for sure. And I i knew it too. And so eventually we leave and you we're all we all say goodbye and I go with him to his place because he lives in Lakeview.
00:31:50
Speaker
And he's really cute, so I'm like, oh, this is great. And like it's it was also really late, so I knew I was probably going to just pass out at his place, too, most likely. Yeah. um So we get there and like, look, this is no shame to anybody who's into it. I just want to point that out. Right. But this is just not my thing. It's just it's not my thing that's ever going to be my thing. um And it it was just kind of funny to me at at the time. And it honestly still is funny. um This guy was he didn't tell me this before we got to his place. I just want to point that out.
00:32:18
Speaker
Um, he was very into, he was very into farting. Like that was his thing. Interesting. And so he's telling me about it and I'm like, what? Do you want me to You want me to farts? Is that what you want me to do? Did this person insinuate that you can manufacture farts? I think so. And, um, I can't do that. I can't. And also by the way, I really hate farting. I don't like to do it. I don't like when people do it. I don't think fart jokes are funny. Like it's not, it is truly not my thing at all. Um, and I don't find it sexy in the least. Um,
00:33:02
Speaker
But look it's it wass like four o'clock in the morning. I'm at this dude's house. I literally need to pass out. That's about the end of it and um Then he can he he produces yeah those he produces those and um That was that was about it We eventually just went to sleep and I woke up and I got out of there very very early I think I was the like an hour and a half and that that was the end of it.
00:33:25
Speaker
I think that that man may need to see a GI doctor. but It's possible. yeah and Once again, no shame to anybody. No shame. But look, I didn't know about this before we went into it. He probably should have said something. um I may not have hooked up with him simply because I just, number one, I'm not into it. And number two, I can't do it. So a very odd one, but I have a stack of other ones that I can share with you later on.
00:33:49
Speaker
um Andrew, I want to tell you about um a hookup in Ireland, um a series of hookups that turned deadly. and um This happened a couple years ago in Ireland and it really rocked the LGBT community here. It happened in 2022 and um it was it happened right around the time that a bunch of other hate crimes were happening and and so the community was really on edge for a long time. This happened out in Sligo, which is way out West or out West. And let me just tell you about it. This is this is an article online its from from the BBC, which Irish people will hate that I'm reading from the BBC, but it has happened to be a good article.
00:34:29
Speaker
Anyways, ah this is about the the murder of Aidan Moffat and Michael Snee, who were both living in Sligo, and um ah the the the terrible attack on Anthony Burke as well by a man named Yusef Palani. And so um here we go. It was a 23-year-old man who was given two life sentences for murdering two men in Sligo.
00:34:52
Speaker
ah The court heard that the guard that Guardi believed, Guardi are the police here, that Guardi believed that Yusef Palani's motivation was, quote unquote, to carry out murder due to prejudice against homosexuality. However, Palani, with an address at Markovitz Heights in Sligo, denied this was the case. Also, he's an absolute fucking liar.
00:35:11
Speaker
He pleaded guilty in July of that year to the murders in Sligo of Aidan Moffat and of Michael Sneay two days later. He further admitted intentionally causing serious harm to Anthony Burke on the 9th of April. So just before he killed those two, he stabbed Mr. Burke in the eye. In his victim impact statement, Mr. Burke called his attacker a coward and a monster.
00:35:36
Speaker
And the court heard that one of the murder victims was decapitated with 43 stab wounds. The second man, Michael Snee, was stabbed 25 times in his head, neck, and chest.
00:35:55
Speaker
Palani told the Gardi after his arrest that he suffered with mental health issues. He told Gardi that his victims had to be Irish and they had to live alone and when he sought them out under the presence under the pretense of dating. He met his victims through a variety of social media messaging and gay dating apps, but we know that it was grinder.
00:36:15
Speaker
It would have to be their own house, and they had to be alone. You can't be hurting kids or women," he told arresting officers. Mr. Polani denied being in Anthony Burke's house, despite his semen from a previous consensual sexual encounter being found on a blanket there, as well as evidence from seized phones that linked him to the victims.
00:36:37
Speaker
forensic evidence linked blood found on shoes and tracksuit bottoms in Pilani's house to both murder victims. so He told arresting officers, I can get angry very quick, and denied that he was gay, claiming homosexuality was, quote, a sin. You won't find many Muslims gay and religious. He added, quote, I want to tell you at this time I was mentally ill. I heard voices. They made me do it.
00:37:03
Speaker
Quote, my mom told me to visit the doctor, he told Garde, adding there was no specific reason he killed the two men. Yeah, fucking right. He said, quote, because of my religion, I don't hate gay people. It's because of the voices. What a fucking coward. Police confirmed Polani had no previous convictions and a psychiatric report was not provided to Garde or the prosecution.
00:37:25
Speaker
He also told officers he would have continued to kill if guardi hadn't stopped him in his victim impact statement mr. Burke who survived pull on his attack said that due to the the sight loss from being stabbed in the eye he is limited in his job opportunities and can no longer hold an hgv license a professional driver's license He has suicidal thoughts and has gone through a very dramatic change in my quality of life. ah quote I have become an introvert and find it hard to be in large groups. quote I spent 49 years suppressing my sexuality and but had no choice when I was attacked due to my sexuality.
00:38:02
Speaker
Mr. Burke said that the manner in which his sexuality was revealed has had a huge impact and strain on his family and relationships. A victim impact from Mr. Moffat's family, the one who was beheaded, ah heard that he had a smile and personality that lit up the world.
00:38:19
Speaker
Family was so hard to read. Family was so important to him. He was the best son he could be, the statement said. and Our family is lost in grief and forever heartbroken and empty. God, taking in his prime, we miss Aiden every hour of every day.
00:38:35
Speaker
One of the victim impact statements for Mr. Sne came from Shannon McManus, his niece who found his body. Michael was a second dad, a best friend, an amazing person, her statement said. Michael was so loving, soft and gentle and harmless. He would do anything to make me happy. The kind of person he was, he wanted the best for us. I am not the same carefree person I was. I never felt the need to look over my shoulder and now I will never be the same.
00:39:01
Speaker
Since walking in, she found him. Since walking in on the scene of Finding Michael, I have nightmares and flashbacks and imagine the fear he must have felt. I have been prescribed a sleep aid. I don't think I'll ever be free from this. Both families complained of media intrusion in the wake of their relatives' murder and requested privacy.
00:39:21
Speaker
Sentencing Palani, Judge Ring said the violence perpetrated on the men was unspeakable. The right to privacy may end with a deceased, but the right to respect never goes, he said. These three men who were who were and are loved and cherished by their families and friends, I know that they were and are complete human beings.
00:39:42
Speaker
of which their sexuality was just one part of who they are, of of who they are she said. and Shame is born of one person in this courtroom alone. These three men were proud, and that's how it should be. The judge sentenced Polanyi to two life sentences for the two murder charges and a 20-year sentence for the attack on Anthony Burke. and I hope he rots in hell for what he did.
00:40:05
Speaker
He will. How about that, though? Can you believe that that? That's awful. And look, and i just want i want to I want to say too, like i've I've thought about, i I think about that every time I'm on Grindr, not every time, but I think about it often. And like look, i you know i I take safety measures as much as I can, right? If you're out there, especially if you're young, my dudes, and you're on hookup apps, there's nothing wrong with it at all.
00:40:29
Speaker
Just make sure that you're safe. Maybe if you have a friend that you trust that doesn't care about this kind of shit, you tell them when you're going to a hookup or you tell them when you have somebody coming over. You you verify who they are. you You do a FaceTime call or you look at their Instagram. you know Find ways to protect yourselves because unfortunately, pieces of shit like Yusef Pilani are out there and you don't want to meet them.
00:40:54
Speaker
Well, and we even have here in Chicago, it still has not been solved, is the that that the guy who's been picking up people and they've been finding bodies and in water for a number of years now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It might be the smiley face killer.
00:41:09
Speaker
They've said that we don't know. We don't know because nothing has been done about it. And even though many people have gone to the police ah from the end, this stems from young men being picked up in and around River North outside of like nightclubs. Isn't that interesting?
00:41:26
Speaker
And um they the the police won't do anything about it because i care i think I think to them it's a conspiracy theory, but to people that have lost their lives, the conspiracy is real. So ah do something about it. Sorry. Exactly. Thank you. But yeah, hookups, like ah in general, like, you know, your body is, ah ah for lack of a better term, your body is a wonderland and you should explore it and you should explore other yeah bodies and you should figure that out and figure out what's what works for you and what's good for you. But also, you know, you know, you're allowed to put stipulations on what you are able to do and what you want to do. So, you know, just exercise those rights to your own body.
00:42:10
Speaker
just like everybody should be able to in every way, shape and form. But yeah, I mean, be free. This life is so short. And if you limit yourself, it's only going to be at the end of your life, something that you regret. So I heard that, Andrew. I heard that. Well, listen, anyway, that does it for that for that scintillating talk about hookups. um Let's take a break here and we'll be right back with what you've been watching, bitch.
00:42:51
Speaker
All right, it's that time, it's that time again in every episode where we say, what you been watching, bitch? What you been watching, you hooking up, little slutty bitch. This is the start of the show, the part of the show where we talk about what we've been watching. Sometimes it's what we've been reading.
Film Reviews and Critiques
00:43:09
Speaker
It's pretty much what we have our eyes on. Yeah, you've just been watching porn, Andrew. Is that all you've been watching, huh? Is that it?
00:43:15
Speaker
I wish, no, I'm just kidding. So Maddie, tell me what you've been watching. Sure. I want to start with the big one, the one that I'm the most excited to talk about with you, which is The Substance. The Substance is the new big horror film out right now. And let me tell you, it is fucking fantastic. It is one of the best, it's one of the best horror films I've ever seen, number one. And it might be the best, it might be the best film of 2024 that I have seen at all.
00:43:43
Speaker
It is in credible Coralee Fargates directed it um and she has done some other things. and There's actually I subscribed to movie MUBI. Another one of her films is on there that I'm going to watch tonight because I've i've i've never seen in any of her other stuff.
00:44:02
Speaker
But let me tell you. Oh, Revenge. She did Revenge too. um Oh, the Shutter movie, right? Exactly. Yeah. But there is another one too. I can't remember it. Anyways, it doesn't matter. um What a fucking movie. So Demi Moore, Margaret Qualley, Dennis Quaid. Those are your big stars in this movie. And this is maybe Demi Moore's best thing she has ever done.
00:44:25
Speaker
And like when I say she deserves the Oscar for this movie, I'm not joking. And like i know i've I've talked about you know other people winning the Oscar before or whatever. If she does not get fucking ah nominated for this, it's it's a crime. She is so fucking good. Margaret Qualley equally is good. Dennis Quaid, fucking fantastic.
00:44:47
Speaker
So what is it about? It is about a celebrity who's getting older. It's it's really a pretty simple story. Demi Moore is Elizabeth Sparkle, Lizzie Sparkle, and she has been and she has been like a mainstay of like television for years and years and years and years. and everyone loves Elizabeth Sparkle and she she just got us she did she has a star on on the Hollywood Walk of Stars. She's got you know posters everywhere and billboards and she has a workout show and it's huge and everyone loves it but she's turning 50. And on the day that she turns 50, she basically gets told, bye-bye, you're out because you're 50.
00:45:26
Speaker
Bye. You're done. That's it. We need someone younger, someone hotter, someone prettier, all of it. And so she is, of course, very forlorn. She's she's worried about it. and I don't want to give too much away here, but i'll but what i what i'll I'll just tell you this. She has an accident where she has to go to the hospital.
00:45:45
Speaker
While she's at the hospital, someone gives her some information about something called the substance. And they say that it's something that changed their life. And I'll leave it there because I don't want to get anything else away from there. All I will tell you is that I ah immediately gave it five stars on Letterboxd right away. I'm so glad to see most of my other friends on Letterboxd doing the exact same.
00:46:10
Speaker
This movie will rock your brain. at least i And i i I hope you love it as much as I did, because I really, really did. Fucking fantastic. Go see it before you learn too much about it, the substance.
00:46:22
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. I think we're trying to see it this week. Yeah. and And I would also say, see, this is one that you want to see in the theater. And it's just because it's seeing that on a big screen with with the colors and the the the huge spectacle. And let me tell you, this thing ends in spectacle that you cannot fucking believe. See it in the theater. You want to see it in the cinema.
00:46:46
Speaker
Cool. I'm excited for it. I just haven't had the time. but I hope I hope I hope that you guys love it. I think you will. All right. My first one is Watchers or The Watchers. ah This is M. Night Shyamalan produced his daughter directed. Oh, cool. OK. You will want to watch this because it is an Irish movie. There's really no way.
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah, so it's basically about this girl who's an artist and she's taking a piece across Ireland to go deliver it and her car breaks down. And as she enters the forest to try to look for help, the forest kind of becomes endless. And all of a sudden she's trapped and she doesn't know what to do. And she stumbles upon these other three people that are in a similar situation.
00:47:35
Speaker
And they basically tell her you can go anywhere during the day. But as soon as nightfall comes, you have to be inside of our little like, I would call it like a storage container. Like it almost looks like a like a but back of like a truck almost. But it's ah their their little house. um But it has one window pane that you can see inside and um basically.
00:47:57
Speaker
at night there are creatures that come and watch them as they're like quote unquote entertainment and it's all about like trying to figure out like hey what are we gonna do how are we gonna get out of the situation like that that kind of a thing so i'll leave it at that okay I I I wouldn't the i I go into any Shyamalan anything these days with ah with a with a slight hesitation. But I go in with like some like positivity mostly. OK, I really liked this. It kind of was a little bit more like fairy tale than a horror movie. But i I think that you'll enjoy it because it's definitely like a very Irish movie.
00:48:37
Speaker
um And I thought it was pretty good. I it's excited think it's like I don't think it's like a great movie, but um I did. I did enjoy myself with the watchers. Nice. What what did you watch it on? I watched on HBO Max. I bet I can get that on like Sky or something here. Probably I'll have a look for that. That sounds cool. Nice. um Andrew, my next one is one that I had such high hopes for. I really did.
00:49:03
Speaker
It is Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. I saw this as well. Yeah, so I mean, look. ah Fun to see everybody back on screen, except for um Katie Dittler, Jeffrey Jones. glad Glad you weren't there. But you were there in Claymation form, which was very odd and strange. um I mean, look, um that there were parts of it that that were fun.
00:49:31
Speaker
I think if if I had to just sort of talk about why it was so disappointing, it was just cheesy. I don't i don't know how else to really put it. um It just felt like it it felt tired. it It felt like there wasn't a whole lot of effort put into it. It felt really uneven. um Even while it was fun to see Michael Keaton being Beetlejuice again, it was fun to see the shrunken head guys. It was fun to see Catherine O'Hara, get back into Delia.
00:50:03
Speaker
um But like ah something about it just didn't work. I think the the writing for me was really off. I don't know, man. it's I was expecting so much from it. And maybe that's the problem is, you know how do you ever top Beetlejuice? You can't really with with any sort of sequel.
00:50:21
Speaker
And so um it just ah just didn't work for me. I i i hope that you know if people that did like it, I'm glad for you that that's very cool. But for me, it didn't work. And I was really sad about it, to be honest.
00:50:34
Speaker
Yeah, visuals, 10 plot to. Yeah, that's honestly a great way to put it right there. There's just ah for me, I saw this. a Listen, Beetlejuice is like in my probably top 20 movies of all time. That's fantastic. um And I just thought that like this warrant, this plot that they try to squeeze into an hour and 40 minutes is too much. There's too much. There's yeah too much plot.
00:51:00
Speaker
um But yeah, I'm right there with you. I i still like to watching it, but i it's not going to be when I go back to like I do with the original. Yeah, I agree. if If I were to grade it, then the way that we grade things on the seven stripe scale, I would give it like a Three, I would say, which is sad, but there we are. Anyways, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, there you go. Yeah. um My next one is a movie that came and went pretty quickly in the theaters. It was called Imaginary. I don't even know if you remember this one. even I don't know.
00:51:32
Speaker
So this is about a family and um that that there's obviously some grief in the family, but ah their youngest daughter has an imaginary friend. and and they And the whole plot is they move back to the one woman moves back to her childhood home after some trauma and she has to like, you know, move back and, you know,
00:51:52
Speaker
that that that whole entire story. And um the the daughter has a new imaginary friend and it's in the shape of this little you know stuffed bear and it it starts off, you know, meaningless enough. And then it like things escalate from there. I don't want to give too much away. Are you actually watching Ted part four? Is that where you write? I mean, it's Ted, the horror movie, but and but no, um listen, I Nobody's talking about this movie. I loved it. I thought it was really fun. I thought it was very imaginative and very different for a horror movie because it's not. It almost felt like a new version of Poltergeist in a way. but taking the imaginary friend route. So think early scenes of The Exorcist with Mr. Howdy type of that kind of thing. Yes. OK. I liked it quite a bit. It goes into like this kind of crazy third act, Insidious Wise, where they go into like a different realm, which I thought was really fun. I don't know. I just think like I wanted to highlight this movie because I think it really did kind of come and went really quick. I think it was in spring, like March time when it came out.
00:53:09
Speaker
I think that horror fans will like this one. I think that this is one people should give a second chance to. So that's imaginary. It's currently streaming on stars, which you can get through like ah Amazon and all those things with an add-on. I think there's even like a seven-day trial you can do to just watch this and then cancel it. But um I really liked it. Imaginary. It's out now. Nice. You know, speaking of Amazon, do you know what I still cannot watch here? What? The new season of hacks.
00:53:39
Speaker
Oh no, I've already watched all of it. and I'm so fucking pissed about it. is It has been on cause like we, we watch it through Amazon here. It has been sitting there and it just says not available, not available, not available. I'm just, every time I see it, I want to fucking throw my TV out the window anyways.
00:53:55
Speaker
It's better than season two. I cannot wait to watch it. Anyways, uh, next thing I watched was slow horses season four. They are on now. This is on Apple TV plus. Um, one of my favorite shows. It's a wonderful, wonderful show about spies, but these are spies who the, who am I five or am I six or whatever in, um, in England have determined are the like like sea class of spies like they're not good enough to be the real spies so they put them in a place called slough house and that's why they're called the slow horses um the um the uh what do you call it the the the crew of them is headed by gary oldman who plays jackson lamb
00:54:37
Speaker
I'm and ah wonderful cast of of other folks in this to christen scott thomas who's just one of my favorite people in the world that she's so fucking good i'm she's also in the show as i was first seated in my five. ah Jonathan price is also in it playing the father of one of the other main character the grandfather pardon me one of the other main characters played by jack louden.
00:54:57
Speaker
and a bunch of other really really great actors most of them english basically um so season four is is is great it's wonderful i'm already having fun with it um the only thing that i wish with this show is that i wish that apple tv would just release the entire seasons because i just hate waiting for the next one i mean nuts And it's always weird because so many shows don't do that now. You have to wait. I know. And when I have to wait for them, I'm like, this is not what my body is used to anymore. Just let me with it, please. I'm right there with you. I need them to either commit to only releasing one episode a week or releasing them all at once and everyone needs to be consistent. because I can't handle how I have to consume. Seriously, I totally agree. Anyways, look, it would be too complicated to give you the story on this one. I would say this. If you haven't watched Slow Horses yet, you're going to like it if you like spy things. If you don't like spy things, you're probably not going to like it. But if you like spy stuff in any way, which I happen to, you're very likely to enjoy this because it's spy stuff
00:56:02
Speaker
But funny, but not like cheesy funny. It's like dark funny. So give it a chance if if you if you if you have Apple TV Plus. It's well worth it, I think, and they are now on season four. Cool. um My next one is I finally saw in a violent nature. Oh, what'd you think? It's ah it's on shutter now. So I finally just like was like, OK, it has it's it's it's quote I like to say it's quote unquote free, but hey paper fair so you're not paying for it. Right. um But i I held out because I just wanted to wait until I could just watch it at home. yeah And listen, as
00:56:35
Speaker
As someone who played Friday the 13th the game a lot when it came out, um I understand the inspiration. It's essentially like watching someone play that game. um Listen, I had fun enough with it. um do Do I think that it gets like all of the hype that everyone was fucking going crazy on the Internet for?
00:57:02
Speaker
I don't know, like it was fine. ah the the Listen, it's a Friday the 13 movie from the perspective of a ah from the killer's perspective until the last 15 minutes, which don't really make that much sense to me, but sure.
00:57:18
Speaker
I don't know, I'm kind of like 50-50 on this one. I liked it and I liked kind of... I liked what they did with how they carved out the story of the quote-unquote teens or early 20s or whatever people were. And how you kind of get the story from happenstance, you kind of just hear it from a glance of what's going on. I liked that part of it.
00:57:42
Speaker
I just think it kind of loses momentum by the end. I don't know. I probably won't watch it again, but if there's a sequel, I probably will see what it's about. There already is a sequel in the works.
00:57:58
Speaker
i I liked it enough. I just didn't think it was like, everyone was talking about, that everyone was talking about this movie. You're not included because you were kind of mixed on it too. yeah But um everyone was talking about this is like the the birth of a new, like, no. And I just, I don't think of it that way. I thought it was just like an experimental film that someone who played Friday the 13th, the game turned into a movie. But um I'll tell you, I do think that it could have been really great had they had a better writer. I i do. Yeah. like Yeah. and You know, like writing was just a little bit like and what what the acting was not not. acting, but, um, uh, I don't know. Like I said, I'm kind of 50 50 on it. I still had fun watching it, but like, and I honestly, I really don't understand the last 15 minutes where they completely flip the script and they put it in the perspective of the protagonist and the POV changes entirely. Yeah. And nothing, it comes of it. Like nothing happens. So I just, I don't really understand the ending. That's my two cents. Take it at what it is. I'm probably going to watch it once more. The spooky season just to like, because I, I, it's been a while since I watched it and it is available now. And I'm like, yeah, you know what? I wouldn't mind seeing it one more time.
00:59:13
Speaker
But I can guarantee you that script is going to drive me up the fucking wall. Some fun kills. I will say that ah I did like the legend in it. I thought that the legend was like, yeah, that's actually kind of cool. It's a cool legend. Anyways, um Andrew, my final one is the Penguin. um And this is the latest entry in the Batman franchise from DC. um I think in America, it's on HBO. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:38
Speaker
um And so, this is, there's only one episode out because it's yet again, it's another one I have to fucking wait for every week. um But this is with Colin Farrell, of all people, playing the penguin, who is actually named Oswald Cobblepot, which sounds very close to Chester Copperpot, by the way, from The Goonies. Anyways, Oswald Cobblepot is the penguin. This is about his transformation into into him.
01:00:01
Speaker
um And this is I've only seen the one episode because that's all anyone has seen um but I'll tell you what it's pretty fucking good. This is like um the most Mafia story of the Batman yet for sure. So this is sort of like I don't know, like any mafia movie that you see, almostmo like Goodfellas or any sort of Scorsese thing, just in the Batman universe and with Colin Farrell playing this ah really interesting character.
01:00:32
Speaker
I'm very much into gangster shit and into mafia movies, so this is right up my alley. I really enjoyed the first one. The rest of the cast is really strong, too. um Kristen Milote. Kristen Milote is in it. Clancy Brown. who you You probably don't know Clancy Brown by name, but when you see his face, you've seen him in everything. um Mark Strong is in it. Michael Kelly. ah Theo Rossi. Ben Cook.
01:00:56
Speaker
A lot of really really great actors are in this short short ago she was in this for god's sake was one of the best actresses of all fucking time. um so I'm having a blast with it and yeah that's all there is to say the fucking penguin did love it cool yeah I.
01:01:12
Speaker
I know michael will watch this yeah um i won't i just i'm i'm done with spider man and i'm done with a batman i can't take any more lower on these two totally get it yeah. I'm so my last one is i don't know have you heard of this chimp crazy.
01:01:31
Speaker
Is this is this like the new um the new Tiger King kind of? Yes. it is it on What is it on? It's on. It's on ah HBO. So you'll get it eventually. Eventually. I'll get it. Yeah. i i I heard about it and I do want to see this. So, yeah, this is the same director as Tiger King. But um this is all about chimp culture. And if you don't know, there are a lot of people that just like love chimpanzees and they they want them as pets and they think they're cute and like that There's many stories within this four episode documentary, um but the main one is about this woman um who is essentially volunteering at this place where they raise chimpanzees. And I don't want to go too much into it because there is like a drop at like episode two where you're like, holy shit, something crazy is going on here.
01:02:24
Speaker
Um, but they do tell the stories about like a lot of people. Um, you know, do you remember, and you remember the movie? Nope, right? Yes. So do you remember that thing where that woman, um, got attacked by a chimp on the television set and yeah she was at like the nope thing. So it tells the actual story of that woman. And, uh, because I didn't realize that was based on a true story, but it is.
01:02:49
Speaker
um So it's just it's it's a crazy fucked up weird story and it's so funny because because of Tiger King this guy who directed it is so synonymous in the um wild animal like that area culture that he had to hire someone to be the director like to be like us to be like a sub director so that they wouldn't get noticed and So there's like an added layer of like conspiracy. um I thought it was fascinating that the woman that they follow is as you as you would think. Just like with Tiger King is a fucking crazy but so entertaining. So um I highly recommend anyone that loved that kind of like
01:03:33
Speaker
Um, that little bucket of culture that we had in the pandemic that latched onto Tiger King. You're going to love chimp crazy. And honestly, it's a better story. So it's wild that, you know, i'm I'm excited to see that though. Wonderful. Well, cool.
01:03:48
Speaker
Well, folks, on this edition of what you've been watching, Bitch, Andrew brought us the Watchers imaginary in a violent nature and chimp crazy. And Maddie brought us The Substance, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Slow Horses, Season 4, I think you said. Yes, Season 4, not 3. And The Penguin, which you should check out. Well, folks, that does it for this edition. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode.
01:04:17
Speaker
The one and only Hellraiser.
01:04:24
Speaker
i i have seen the future of horror
01:04:29
Speaker
his name is clive barker
01:04:35
Speaker
um
01:04:43
Speaker
are are are Hellraiser. Beyond any terror you have imagined. A
01:05:15
Speaker
unholy is unleashed.
01:05:28
Speaker
um razor a film like clive buckker will tear your soul apart
01:05:42
Speaker
are
01:05:47
Speaker
Well, it ain't called Heavenraiser. Andrew, tell us all about this crazy movie. you know, he'll tear your soul apart. Hedonist Frank Cotton finds a mysterious puzzle box that summons the Cenobites, who opens the door to a dominion where pain and pleasure are indivisible. Directed and written by Clive Barker, production and distribution handled by Film Futures, Entertainment Film Distributors, and New World, Julia is played by Claire Higgins, Kirsty is played by Ashley Lawrence. I'm gonna really try not to say Kirsty, I'm gonna say Kirsty, I'm gonna say Kirsty, I'm gonna say Kirsty.
01:06:24
Speaker
Larry is played by Andrew Robinson. Frank is played by Sean Chapman. Pinhead or the lead Cenobite is played by Doug Bradley. Chatterer is played by Nicholas Vince. Butterball is played by Simon Bamford. Female Cenobite, or Deep Throat as she's known, is Grace Kirby. And Skinless Frank is played by Oliver Smith. This was rated X then changed to R.
01:06:48
Speaker
um It comes in at 93 minutes. It was it made in London in the UK. It came out on September 10th of 1987, and the budget surprisingly was only $1 million, dollars but it brought in $14.6 million. dollars Now, I know this is not a first watch for either of us, but Maddie, what did you think of Hellraiser on this watch? Sure. It's been a while since since I've seen it. um ah This time around, I don't know if I've ever really thought about this. I was really haunted with how Clive Barker just wrote a bunch of characters that I don't like. I don't i don't like anybody in this movie.
01:07:32
Speaker
And that is one of the issues that I think I have with it now. And I don't think I just ever thought about it before. I know that sounds dumb, but it's the truth. And um I don't know, it made it made this watch around like it didn't make it a slog. like i I still enjoy Hellraiser. I do. It just doesn't ring in as one of like the canonical classics for me. It it is that I know. But like in my heart, as somebody who loves horror movies, it doesn't rank It's not gonna be like one of my top five for sure. It might not even be in my top 10 if I'm being real. I just think like like the story is is really interesting. there's There's so much there, but like there's just something about the way that he wrote these characters that I just, I'm not a huge fan of them. And you know, look, I'm not saying that I have to be a big fan of of Pinhead here or a big fan of Frank or a big fan of or even Kirsty, for example. Like I think it's kind of hard to be.
01:08:28
Speaker
but um But it makes it kind of hard to care if you don't like anybody. know Do you know what I'm trying to say? And so yeah I think for me, that's where I ended up on this one. But look, you know it's still it's still a really fun movie. I mean, like ah the the fact that they did make this for just a million bucks is kind of crazy. um Just the effects alone were ah incredibly hard to pull off, especially considering that this was Clive Barker's first go at directing.
01:08:56
Speaker
he He didn't know what he was doing. He even admits that in in future interviews. He would say that like everyone was so generous to him because he didn't even... There was one... um Do I happen in the ephemera? I don't think I... Yeah. He didn't know the difference between a 10 millimeter lens and a 35 millimeter lens. If you'd show me a plate of spaghetti and said that was a lens, I might have believed you. In other words, Clive Barker, wonderful writer, didn't know fucking shit about making a film.
01:09:23
Speaker
And like the fact that he pulled this off is kind of fucking cool. That's really amazing. Um, the lore of it is, is really neat. I think, um, and it does get explored in the sequels. I think a lot, a lot more like the the puzzle box itself, um, is just such an interesting, strange little thing. And from what I understand, there were like eight of them made for the movie, but the guy that made them,
01:09:46
Speaker
It took like eight hours to make each and every one. And so he was like terrified of them breaking. So he would like lay on the floor to protect them at all costs during the filming, because it just took so much fucking time to make them. um I don't know. I don't know. I think this time around, too, I was really ah it's struck by the obvious, which is Julia is just a fucking idiot. Frank is a total piece of fucking garbage. Larry Larry is a dummy.
01:10:14
Speaker
Kirsty, the only redeemable one is also just kind of like, what the fuck is going on with you two? And the Cenobites in this one are, you know what, they just are who they are. They're unforgiving, merciless beings who don't care about anything except pain and suffering. um And so, look, you don't walk out of that, you don't walk out of Hellraiser feeling good, do you? You just walk out going, wow, that's some fucked up shit right there.
01:10:41
Speaker
um I think Hellraiser, when I saw, probably like a lot of us, I saw Hellraiser way too young. um And it really scared me when I was younger. Me too. It really, really scared me. And like, to be honest, I stayed away from it for a while. I think on top of that too, like, the long time was when there's no body horror is really not my thing. um But, you know, in in this case, it's it's you you can't have the story without it. and And Clive Barker doesn't do anything without body horror in in one way or another. so I mean, look, do I still like Hellraiser? Yes. um do Did I like it less than I thought I did? Yeah, that is that is true for me. How about you? Yeah. um So this one, I remember, like you, I saw this way too young and it really freaked me out and I just never returned to it. yeah I have now seen six of these movies.
01:11:34
Speaker
Wow. I've seen this. I've seen one through four of the original. I've seen the ah the remake, which is on Hulu. And I've seen Hellworld because I wanted to see Henry Cabell young. because he's um And so I've seen a number of these movies. And so like,
01:11:53
Speaker
I just think like i i think i think the remake does it best if I'm being honest about her consolidating ideas because I think what Hellraiser, especially this first one, there's it's such a mixed bag of ideas that I don't think that they really know like what um direction to take it in. Yeah, fair enough. and i think they just don't they don't pick a lane because there's like the whole story with Julie and Frank, then there's the whole story with Kirsty and her dad, then there's the whole story with Kirsty and her boyfriend, then there's the whole story with Kirsty and being psychic, maybe? Yeah, sure. like and so like There's just a lot of ideas ah in this movie. and I think you know with Clive Barker being a first-time director, maybe didn't know how to like consolidate all those into like one meaningful story because like you,
01:12:46
Speaker
there's There's not a ton to like cling on to apart from just bad people doing bad things. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do completely agree. And so like like like you, like i I don't know. I'm i'm kind of in the in between with this one because I understand that it's like a staple of this time and horror and I understand like the visuals stick with people because listen, even this time around, I winced at that the the hooks going into the skin. Absolutely. Yes. Like that stuff is successful in this movie, especially given that I see now it's only a a million dollar shoot. What I think like gets lost in translation is like,
01:13:30
Speaker
like For instance, literally, two people in this entire movie have a London accent. Nobody else does so far. We're in London and nobody has an accent. Did you know this, Andrew? I didn't realize this actually. um and and not Not to cut cut you off, but this is straight to that point.
01:13:51
Speaker
After filming, New World convinced Barker to relocate the story to the United States, which required overdubbing to remove some English accents.
01:14:03
Speaker
But but it's not, though. It takes place because it's very fucking weird, dude. I don't get it. They say they say in the script, he says like, oh, we've returned you back to like your home and we're back on your turf. Yeah. And so. Oh, that's really strange. That's very veryy stupid. Yeah. um But that stood out to me. um i I do like this. This like a main story ah of like the ah infidelity of Julia and then her doing anything for Frank in the end. and like i I like that little portion of this story about like her becoming a murderous bitch.
01:14:45
Speaker
luring all these men into their house to like basically get the the life sucked out of them. I just think it's surrounded by too much filler. And I don't really like know who to root for because ah you think you kind of want to root for Larry, but he's such a bumble fuck that you kind of exactly like know what to do with that character. And then Kirsty is not even in the house. So she's already a tertiary character.
01:15:11
Speaker
And by the end, you're supposed to be rooting for her, but you're like, but she's not really in the movie until the end. So I don't really know like what to do. and that and then And then it's surrounded by just this incessant horniness.
01:15:28
Speaker
that like, I don't, I didn't know what to do with the energy of this movie is very strange. And like the, the, the, um, who does her boyfriend? What's her boyfriend's name? I can't remember. I didn't write it down something like that. And when he does that cigarette trick at the dinner table, I was like, why is this happening?
01:15:52
Speaker
And then she has the line where she says, oh, oh, no, no, no, that's that's enough. I want to be able to stand. And then he goes, then lay down and it's right in front. And then it's it's right in front of her dad and her stepmom. And I was like, what is happening? These people are weirdly like, I know. Listen, I feel like this movie is like one iota away from being like a ah like a soft core porn and like yeah and i don't know it just it took me out of it a little bit from being a horror movie um until like the cenobites and then the you know the third act i kind of like all right that stuff right I get into it. I'm understanding what's happening. And then we will get into it. But that end, we we have to talk about it because I don't know what's happening at the end of this movie. But that's my overall thoughts. I just think it's a little bit um ah overdone, if you will. I think that's i think it's the way to to put it.
01:16:52
Speaker
but i But I do like parts of it. I do like aspects of of the story. And look, I also get why it's such a big deal. Like, you know, for the time that this movie was made in 1987, there was nothing else like this. And so, like, yeah, it's it's a big deal. And and I get why people like it. And I get why people would have a nostalgia for it if it came out and, you know, you were young then.
01:17:14
Speaker
There's like 47 sequels. Yeah, right. Exactly. It's just like, you know, it's I don't know. It just it just kind of gets a little bit cheesy. And, you know, it it feels a little bit Canadian almost in in that way. If if if you know, I know there's a part where they're depicting kind of Frank and Julia's like first encounter. Yeah. And he's like, are you going to let me in? And she's like, um I don't know who you are. that There's they're very weird interactions.
01:17:46
Speaker
yeah and the fact that they are the The fact that they have sex on top of her wedding dress is also very strange. It's it's it's too on the nose. it's so It's a heavy hammer the whole time in this movie. and like You know what it is to me? It feels like soap opera, like that, like, yeah, of like, I think act that's, that's not a bad way of putting it. And, and then all of a sudden you've got the center bites who come in, who just sort of, you know, wrap that, you know, on, on top of themselves. Um, but it's, it's wild. Let's skip to the end.
01:18:19
Speaker
right So at the very end, um after yeah Kirsty and her boyfriend have sort of defeated the Cenobites and close the gate to the other world, um they're like outside of the house and they're suddenly in an industrial wasteland and there's a big thick fire. I think what we're supposed to meant to feel is that the house burned down. But yes, i but then there's like a chair on fire. There's there's the return. There's the return of this character, the homeless man, because Kirsty got a job in a pet shop, which was an exotic thing that was just very like who gets who gets a job like that? Anyways, um there was a homeless man that comes into the shop one day and is eating crickets out of the cricket aquarium or whatever the fuck.
01:19:05
Speaker
And um we see him again at the end when he returns to this barren wasteland of an industrial park and um gets into the fire over a tire and ah picks up the box, turns into a skeleton dragon and flies away. And then the and then the box is left once again in what we are to assume is Asia somewhere where Frank got the box. um it's
Movie Nostalgia and Cultural Impact
01:19:40
Speaker
It's bizarre. I was thinking like, are is are we trying to say that he's the devil or something? Is he a demon? Is he the caretaker of the box? I don't fucking know. It doesn't make a lot of sense. And and I haven't watched the sequels in a while to remember if there's any connection to that or not.
01:19:57
Speaker
There's not. But it is. It's it's bizarre. And I I have not read the book before, so I don't know if it's if it's if that's how the ending is written or not. um But yeah, it's it's stuff like that that now in twenty twenty four, you know, watching this, what is that? How how thirty seven years later? Is that is that what this is? Right. Movies almost 40 years old now. Yeah. 37 years later, you're kind of like, wait, what? What is this? And like, I think like before what used to really scare me now, I almost just laugh at. And so, um yeah, I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say here, which i've I've kind of already said it and I'm not trying to shit on the movie because like I said, I still like it. It's just it doesn't hold much for me anymore in that way. And that's almost kind of sad that it doesn't.
01:20:47
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. um Some things that I took out of this watch. um First of all, Frank's I don't know if you notice this, but at the very beginning of the movie, when he's accepting the box, his fingernails are so disgusting. They're just they're gross. Like I can't even imagine you can't live like that. It's like very, very disgusting.
01:21:10
Speaker
Um, a couple of other things that I pointed out, i I, so listen, I do like the thorough line of what's your pleasure, sir. Like, i do you think that that's kind of fun? Like that's how it opens the movie. That's how it ends the movie. I was like, Oh, that's kind of, so that's kind of spooky. Um, don't watch the sequel though, because that doesn't play into it at all. Um, I thought there was, there was a couple of funny parts where I was like,
01:21:34
Speaker
It just shows its age and there was a part where Julia at the at the beginning of the movie, she puts her cigarette out on the hardwood floors in the house. Yeah. was like Does that I watch it happen and I was like, what are you doing? What is this?
01:21:49
Speaker
Um, there's a funny part where, um, Larry and Julia are upstairs just kind of like discovering the house and the phone rings. And this is the kind of the the problem with some of this script is Larry goes, what the hell is that? Yeah, literally. I said it's a phone. Yeah.
01:22:09
Speaker
What the fuck do you think it is? Oh, I do like ah like I said, I like I really like Julia as a character. And i'm I was sad when she met such like an easy demise at age at the end of the movie, because I do think like her storyline is like easy demise. Jesus, my God, just gets stabbed in the gut. And then I guess sucked energy out of I don't really understand that part of this, but Um, I do like her whole storyline of being like the seductress because she's such I'm that woman that actress has such a distinct look of that time with that yeah but with that look and the eyeshadow
01:22:51
Speaker
Yeah and then i'm like i don't know if i i i buy it as like a seductress but it is sure is entertaining because she is done up like i probably like what a drag queen would look like yeah basically yes that is a great way to put it.
01:23:05
Speaker
um There's just so many things like the thing like with um when Frank takes over Larry's body that part for me, I think like when I was a kid, I thought it was like a fun twist that like Frank was Larry now.
01:23:22
Speaker
But watching it this time, I was like, it's pretty obvious what's happening here because the dude has it's like it's like ah it's like a pound of hair gel made of blood all around the the corners of his hair. Like, Kirsty, it's not your dad, dude. Yeah. um I think the come to daddy thing is so gross. I i hate that. um Come to daddy.
01:23:48
Speaker
it's And when he says it and she finally, that's what, that's what finally like shows her that it's not her dad. I was like, okay, Kirsty, I think that you you have been breathing those pet shop fumes for a little too long. thank you thank you um I thought it was interesting. Like when she's in the hospital, the nurse that's watching her is just watching a channel of flowers bloom, which I was like, what is this?
01:24:12
Speaker
Perfect. It's exactly what I love to watch on TV. um Some of the iconic lines, I do think that um when Pinhead has his like iconic lines, you know, devils to some, angels to others. And when he says that, my favorite line of the whole movie is when he says to Kirsty, Oh, no tears, please. It's a waste of suffering. Oh, I love that. So like there are parts of this movie that I really, really do you like. Yeah, totally. um But there's just it's it's too much. like everything So one thing that I noticed this time around is this weird, and I know that this is of a time, and there's the weird sex thing about like licking your lips and putting fingers in your mouth. like
01:24:58
Speaker
Like that whole thing, i as far as I know, we don't do that anymore because of germs and whatever. But like it's it's it's not even sexy. Right. Right. what Like your fingers touch so many things. The last thing I want is them in my mouth. Exactly. Like, no. But they use it so like the chatterer does it. Frank does it. Julia does it. Like there's a lot of like fingers in the mouth. It must have been really big then.
01:25:28
Speaker
um i Oh, the one part that I loved in this movie is where Frank is like, you set me up, bitch, to Kirsty. And Kirsty just kind of like, uh-huh, and like backs away. like It did make me laugh this time. I do think that, um who is it? Ashley Lawrence, right? um I do think that she does a good job in this movie of kind of at the end of it being the heroine. I just think that she's not enough in the first half of the movie to make me care about her. So yeah sure like that's kind of like where I land. But um like, listen, overall, I like you. I still enjoy this movie. It's just upon rewatch upon rewatch, I think like the um the return is diminishing for me. If you, that's a great way to put it diminishing returns on this. That's what it really comes down to. It's just, you know, does it still hold up in the same way? and Not, not really for me. It just, it just doesn't. And I, like I said earlier, I'm, I'm sad for that. I really am. Yeah. Well here at Friday, the 13th horror movie podcast, we judge on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the galed rainbow. Maddie, what do you give hell razor? And what are your final thoughts?
01:26:40
Speaker
I gave it a four and a half and I said, it's a classic, but Clive Barker just has the curse of creating an entire cast of characters who are so very unlikable. It's difficult to care about anyone really. And I also gave it a 4.5. I said, I liked it better this time than I have in the past, but it's still so grim and really weird. So it's hard for me to love. Yeah. Feel the same way. and Well, folks, that does it for Hellraiser. We'll be right back with our second film of the episode, Gerald's Game.
01:27:13
Speaker
This is gonna be good for us, Jess, really on the difficult things? You're better, Horace. Let's go in and get comfy.
01:27:35
Speaker
I bet you think your husband will be back any minute. Try to go for him. There's no one for Miles. Gerald? I'm sorry, baby. You don't get to know my name. I don't like this. I'm serious. Stop. i'm like I don't like this. Stop it! Hey! Are you playing? Is this really what it takes these days? How did we look so wrong? We were happy once. We're away. Gerald? What? What's happened? Gerald?
Exploration of 'Gerald's Game'
01:28:17
Speaker
Wake up. Just wake up. It's time to wake up, honey.
01:28:26
Speaker
Five hours you've wasted screaming for neighbors that are half a mile away if they're even here yet. How long do you think someone lives without water? That will not work. You can pull to your wrists to break. You're not getting out of those cuffs.
01:28:46
Speaker
You're not real. You're not real. No, babe. Don't say a word. Focus. You've been sleepwalking since you were 12 years old. That's a beautiful dress. He put you in those handcuffs way before Gerald did. You all now? You need you need to survive from the beginning. You just have to remember.
01:29:17
Speaker
back up If you don't wake up, you're gonna die.
01:29:33
Speaker
Do you wanna play a game? No, no, it's not that movie. It's Gerald's game. Maddie, tell us all about Gerald's game. Some games you play, some you survive. When her husband's sex game goes wrong, Jesse,
01:29:48
Speaker
Who was handcuffed to a bed in a remote lake house? Faces warped visions, dark secrets, and a dire choice. Gerald's game was directed by Mike Flanagan, also written by Mike Flanagan and Jeff Howard based on Stephen King's novel of the same name. Production and distribution were by Intrepid Pictures and Netflix. Jesse played by Carla Gugino. Gerald played by Bruce Greenwood. The Moonlight Man played by Carol Stryken.
01:30:17
Speaker
Mouse, played by Kiara Aurelia, Tom, played by Henry Thomas and Sally, played played by former Friday the 13th guest, Kate Siegel. ah This film was not rated. It's 103 minutes made in the USA, released September 19th of 2017, filmed in Mobile, Alabama, with a budget that we don't know. Not a first time watch for either of us for sure. So Andrew, tell me all about Gerald's Game.
01:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, so um Gerald's Game, I remember this being one of the Stephen King novels that I always wanted to see made into a movie and it there were rumors of it many, many times and it just never came to be. And so I kind of gave up because this era of Stephen King novels are kind of known as kind of his lost era. So this is the time of Dolores Claiborne. This is the time of Gerald's game. Obviously, this is the time of like strong female protagonists in in in his books. And it's kind of the time where people lost ah Stephen King for a second. i sure inso I think Insomnia was the book that kind of lost most people, just like what is happening with Stephen King. And so a lot of these books haven't been touched in in years, but Gerald's game was always one of the ones that
01:31:29
Speaker
i loved like I loved this book. This is my favorite Stephen King books. And so I was really excited when it was going to be a Netflix movie. And at the time, Mike Flanagan was not the Mike Flanagan we knew like yeah right of of all these things. So I was kind of like, oh gosh, this is a very this is a very touchy subject. Are they going to do it right? Can they do it? Yeah. yeah and and And I'm happy to report that this movie fucking rocks. like it's so good and the way that they took what the book is about and modernized it for the screen in 2017 when it was came out, is it's a genius move. and I'll go into like some of the differences between the book and the movie ah as we kind of talk here. But like overall, I just think that
01:32:23
Speaker
Man, Mike Flanagan, he just knows what to do with characters to give you what you need to root for them, what you need to hate them, what you need to just get something done in an hour and 40 minutes that it just sticks with you. And I think that this is, I mean, I i mean i know that we we talk up Mike Flanagan all the time with all of his stuff, but for what this is, this is a pretty crowning achievement in my in my opinion. But what about you?
01:32:52
Speaker
Uh, look, I, I agree with all of it. I think, um, Mike Flanagan, we often say can do no wrong and this is the case here too. And, um, he has a knack for making Stephen King movies that don't suck. And, um, you know, look, there are some that do. I don't know how else to say it. And um he completely eschews that altogether. um you You see that in in um in all of his series that is made for Netflix beyond this one. um You see it in Dr. Sleep, of course, and you certainly see it in Gerald's game. And he is just the fucking master at it, man. I think, too, what's really cool about ah Mike Flanagan is how he's gotten all of his actors around him
01:33:37
Speaker
that, ah you know, sort of are a little crew. And if there's a Mike Flanagan um thing happening, you're probably going to see the same people over and over again. It's kind of like that Leonardo DiCaprio meme of like, oh, oh, that person. like Exactly. right Exactly. And like, you know, that is, it's a good thing. You know, it's it's a wonderful thing because they clearly all know each other so well. They all work together so well.
01:34:02
Speaker
Um, that it, for lack of a better phrase, it just works. It just works. And that is the case for this one. Um, I think Carla Gugino is just, she's a fucking star in this powerhouse. yeah What an absolute physical role to have to do and to have to to really work hard at. I mean, it it must have been harrowing making this movie. It had to have been. um And I think Bruce Greenwood bruce greenwood is such he's such a good actor. There's rarely a thing that he's in that I don't really appreciate his performance. um And he's he's fantastic in this.
01:34:38
Speaker
the moonlight the moonlight all all having to all having to act as underwear the entire time yeah exactly right and he look he doesn't look bad for it i'm the moonlight man terrifying it's absolutely terrifying to think about that man um and then of course you know that the scenes with with henry thomas and with kate segal kate segal one of our but Down Home Girls, we love you. um Just so, so well done and so chilling. This is a chilling movie um and one that really does make you think about about death and about sex and about the secrets that each of us holds and who we tell them to and who we don't tell them to um and how they haunt us forever and how they combine with other things in our life and other choices that we make.
01:35:25
Speaker
how we choose abuse because that's what we're used to, how we choose chaos because that feels like home, and how we don't give ourselves what we really deserve or what we really need. And you know, that that's what I love about Stephen King is that He doesn't just write shit to write horror. like There's there' always something underlying a Stephen King a stephen king story. And that what I just said there is is it at the end of the day. like How do you escape the trauma? that that yeah How do you even recognize the trauma? How do you even admit the trauma that has happened in your life? And how do you eventually get past it so that you can live a full life
01:36:06
Speaker
And that's at the end of the day, that is what this movie is about. And that's so incredible that he explores that through horror. And Mike Flanagan is such a master at that in the same way that he explored addiction and doctor sleep. He does it here with trauma. Uh, and I just think it, it comes out masterfully, absolutely masterfully. So i I love the movie. Um, and thank you for Netflix having it available for everyone. You know what I mean? I don't have to buy it. It's just right there. And that's just an incredible thing.
01:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think that like this one was, i when you when you mentioned hookups, I was like, does this qualify? And I was like, yeah, it does like because it's like a it's like a a hookup situation. They're trying to save their marriage. They're trying to like, well, quote, unquote, save their marriage. It's supposed to feel like a hookup. Yeah. Do with that with what you will given the the scope of the movie. but I just think that like there's so many genius moves in this movie. like The first part that I was like, oh shit, we're doing this, is where we have the Phantom Escape, where her kind of um the other Jessie is born, yeah where she kind of like squeezes her hand out and then breaks off the the the head of the bed and then is done. And then she turns back and it's them still sitting on the bed. yeah And then that's kind of like the birth of her personality that's trying to root her on, whereas ah the personality of Gerald is kind of the net the negative space that occupies her mind. I will say that what i from what I remember in the book, this is the only change. So Gerald is not a personality that comes out in the book.
01:37:51
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Okay. in the In the book, it is a ah college roommate who she almost told really she when she was like in ah like when she was in college. And she um she got so close to this person that she almost told like her what was going on, but did. Wow. Isn't that interesting?
01:38:10
Speaker
but i But I don't mind the change because it makes sense that her abuser would be the negative space in her brain. sure you know what i mean like yeah So I don't mind the change. it doesn't It doesn't bug me at all. I don't think that the the film suffers from making that change. but you know just It's so funny because like the the the cover of this movie on Netflix is basically Carla Cugino chained to the bed like yeah in in handcuffs. like that's So like you're going into this thinking, ooh, this is going to be something crazy and sexy and weird. And and then like you people that don't know what this movie is about, you're in for a surprise because there's a lot more beneath that. And I think
01:38:55
Speaker
that's what authors like steven king that's what creators like mike flanigan bring to the table that i don't think people like you know what i'm just gonna say it people like ryan murphy are not bringing to the table who no no and that they don't even have the ability to and and i and it's it's um man i gotta tell you i i Can't stand ryan murphy i really can i'm glad we're finally at a place for people are finally like you know what you talk about diminishing returns yeah i me because he fucking sucks and i think you know primarily the reason why he sucks is that he could never do what i just said earlier which is plumb and authentic topic
01:39:36
Speaker
that is real with any sort of grace or knowledge of even how to do it. Or depth. Let's be honest here. For Ryan Murphy, it's all about sex and spectacle. And that's it. There's no depth to anything that he does. Anything at all. And I just... No, he makes me sick anymore. I'll be very honest with you. Whereas with this, not to rehash what I've already said here, and not to get hyperbolic about it, but it's the fucking truth.
01:40:06
Speaker
What other movie do you know that is explored drama like this for god's sake it's it's incredible and the story is just out of out of control fucking good and it is really interesting that i i didn't know that because i have read the book course didn't know that that that ship was there i mean are you happy with the ships that were made for the movie.
01:40:25
Speaker
i think it was necessary to play into like an hour and forty movie you know what i mean like you can't with with a book that's like i don't i think gerald's game is like i don't know five six hundred pages like you're allowed to like get a little bit more exploratory yeah in a movie like this i think you kinda for it yeah. You kind of have to make that change because if they introduce like a random character out of nowhere, you wouldn't like the audience was no way. dan Yeah, exactly. Yeah. um So that there's kind of three enemies in this in um um I guess four enemies in this in this movie. So we have Gerald himself as a living being.
01:41:02
Speaker
We have her mind, which is basically like all over the place. We have the dog. And then we have the Moonlight Man. Those are kind of the main antagonists of the movie. I hate that dog. I hate that dog.
01:41:15
Speaker
Um, and I just think it's really interesting how they play into it because they all intersect in such interesting ways. Like there's a, there's a point in the movie where she's having a kind of a, um, a flashback, but it's, it's come on because of exhaustion and she's kind of, you know, in and out of sleep. And sure she's remembering parts of her childhood and, you know, uh, the part about the, I don't, would you call it, I don't know if I'd call it molestation, but it's, but I don't know what to call it. It was absolutely a sexual assault. Yeah. um And she has this moment where she is ah waking up and she sees the moonlight man licking her feet, but it's actually the dog and then the dog like attacks her. And I was like, this is crazy. But like, I just like that he was able to take all of these antagonists and make them all work together as like something that could, you know, be, you know, something against Jesse and something that all works against her. um But at the end of the day, she still perseveres, which I know that a lot of people have mixed feelings on the ending of this movie and like how the Moonlight Man is explained. And I will say it is kind of um
01:42:32
Speaker
What do you call it what it? It is kind of like just plot dumping at the end. by you sex mackina Yeah, like where there she's like explaining everything through the letter. and like yeah sure But like, I don't know. I think it doesn't really matter all that much to me because I think like the Moonlight Man in and of itself is a weird thing, but it's a weird but it's a weird thing that is from the book. Like you can't just ignore it. Like it's something that they they do exactly the same thing in the book.
01:43:01
Speaker
exciting i mean No, go ahead, go ahead. Well, except with the movie, they make it part of like the ending. And I think that like when she is doing her mono like her monologue at the end and she says, you know his cuffs were silence, his cuffs were comfort. yeah and then he so And then at the end when she says, I i know, sorry, I'm getting a little emotional. Yeah, do it.
01:43:26
Speaker
I think we all deserve a little sun. I was like, oh my God. And then she goes to that guy and says, you know, here's so much smaller than I remember. And I was like, right I think it is a perfect adaptation of this book. and like there things's really cra i i I sort of get the criticism that that might be like, it feels maybe a little too Pollyanna at the end. hol like plot dumping. Yeah. like in in the And I mean this, and like it's it's not really Pollyanna, but I i mean i mean that in like the most generous sense here. like It's a little Pollyanna that, oh, that this this gets explained to the fullest extent. I kind of get that. After what feels like a very supernatural experience for a long time, I i understand that that criticism. But I don't see another way for Jesse's character to have that revelation any other way.
01:44:17
Speaker
and right And that revelation is very important to the way that Mike Flanagan wanted to tell the story. And that's very, very clear. And so i I don't know how else to do it. Um, you know, maybe you could have done it a little bit differently, but to me, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. And I think it's, it's still good. I think it's actually really cool that she gets to have like a little showdown with him right in the courtroom. That that's, that's actually pretty fucking neat.
01:44:41
Speaker
um you know does it Does it follow the supernatural thing that maybe I was hoping it might be just because I like to think about things in that weird way? No, it doesn't. But i mean isn't it better that she gets that comeuppance? Isn't that a better thing at the end of the day? I think if you think it's not a better thing, isn't that kind of weird that you think that I don't know what what to say. that's Maybe you shouldn't think that. I don't know. One thing I wanted to point out that most ah Stephen King people will probably not get... um not that I'm sorry. Most people that are not familiar with Stephen King will not get... um There's a part in the movie where she ah recollects a a dream about a woman at the top of the well.
01:45:24
Speaker
Do you know what this is reference to? Dolores Claiborne. Yes, yes, yes. yeah Even even ah the the the solar eclipse. Yep. and So that that all happened on the same. So that's like the weird like little Stephen King universe thing that happens. Yep. Which I was appreciative that they put in the movie, even though it's like a it's like a throwaway thing. Like sure only like the diehards are going to like understand what that really means.
01:45:53
Speaker
And you know, you can go back to, uh, I think it was domestic abuse is terrifying and listen to our review of Dolores. love I love Dolores Claiborne. Um, and there's, there's other little, little Easter eggs of Stephen King in there too. that The book that she takes down from the shelf above her to throw at the dog is midnight mass.
01:46:10
Speaker
um there it And there's, um what's the other one that I, the the oh yeah, the the dog, he calls the dog Kujo, right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also the ah headboard is the Oculus. Yes, yes, which is pretty fucking cool.
01:46:28
Speaker
I love this little Flaniverse, if you will, that flanniverse i love that yeah that he likes to do with like putting all these like little Easter eggs in his own movies that are literally not connected at all, but like I don't know. I think that's really fun. I don't know. If somebody is somebody doesn't like Mike Flanagan, you shouldn't have sex with them. Okay.
01:46:48
Speaker
I mean, speaking on a show about hookups, like if somebody is it was ever like, I don't like Mike Flanagan, you should say I'm not going to have sex with you ever. Yeah, you should maybe just think about get away immediately from them. um So let's talk about the the the scene, the scene of De Gloving.
01:47:05
Speaker
Oh, this is tough. If you. Oh, my God. I i watched an hour and 35 minutes of Hellraiser and this scene was worse than any of that come completely agree. It is. it is I mean, ah just ah the the very thought of the skin on your hand coming off is mortifying in the way that they even consider the way that they don't shy away from it even after it happens when her hand is just like flopping around the and the way when it when it's when it's occurring that the way that like you see the sinews you see the muscle you see like the the interstitials there just gruesome absolutely gruesome it is.
01:47:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's a tough thing to watch. um But that's what this guy does. He does this in a lot of his things. He makes you wince. I mean, Jesus, could and could you imagine having to do that out of a fucking handcuff? My God, I think I think i might actually rather just die. thats It's entirely possible.
01:48:15
Speaker
I think of that I said when we were watching this, I was like, Oh, I'm dead. I don't know why. It's over. overdude i'm I'm not gonna last. It's like I was telling my sister the other day. I was like, Listen, if I'm ever like, if i if I ever like fall off a boat, like in the ocean, like, I'm dead. Like it's it's I'm not gonna live, man. And it's the same thing with this. I'm not gonna live, dude. It's over.
01:48:35
Speaker
And then the the other thing that I think is, you know, the the inciting incident when she's a child, I think that when she is talking about it and she talks about it in a way where she says like, it wasn't even the incident that like made me like this way. It was what he did to me the next day. And it's or what he what he did to me later on is where he manipulates her into gaslighting her. Yeah. And it is it is it is.
01:49:04
Speaker
i I have been this, not with this specific incident, but I have been this kid where you are, where you are adult manipulated into thinking something is real. And it is the way that they do this. I was like, oh my God, like how did they get this so perfect? Because it's it's it's because of the ensemble. Once again, like they all know each other so well.
01:49:31
Speaker
And like because of that, they like if Mike Flanagan knows how Henry Thomas acts. He knows what he can get out of him, and he knows how ah he as a director can manipulate him as an actor to do just what you're talking about right there. And that ah that fearlessness to confront the very, very dark sides of human nature, that is what is so amazing to watch on screen. It's incredible.
01:49:58
Speaker
Yeah, and i I do love the moment where her I think it's her like alter ego of herself where she says, you've had everything you need from the very beginning. yeah And it cuts to her having the flashback of her squeezing the glass so tight that it breaks. And that's like the revelation of like how she's going to get out of this. I i listen. i i I am going to praise this movie till the cows come home. We probably don't need to talk about it too much longer, but i just I just think that this is like one of those movies that kind of came and went and not a lot of just like fucking Doctor Sleep that people are sleeping on that I think that are really, really good examples of modern horror done right. Completely. agree And I just think that some people are just
01:50:47
Speaker
They didn't see Doctor Sleep because they didn't always a sequel to The Shining or whatever. And I saw someone on Twitter the other day that said, like, they should have just called it The Shining Part Two. And I'm like, yeah, that's what I should call a you. I should call you a dumb fuck. That's that's what I should call you from now on, you dumb fuck.
01:51:03
Speaker
But um I'm excited. I think that, you know, there's only one there's only one book left of Stephen King's of of this era of Stephen King that I want to be made into a movie. And um the Long Walk is the only one that I want that's left on the. And that's from his Richard Bachman days. OK, sure.
01:51:23
Speaker
um And its so Richard Bachman was his alter ego that also wrote The Running Man. um But I just really want to see an interpretation of the long walk and I don't know if we'll ever see it. So we'll we'll see. But as of Gerald's game, i this is listen, this is a pleasure to revisit. I'm going to give it a six.
01:51:42
Speaker
I thought once thought unfilmable, Mike Flanagan brings to the screen a film about trauma that we carry through our entire life, even if we don't realize it. I said it's horrifying and thoughtful all at the same time. An underappreciated gem. I also gave it a six and I said it's brilliant. Period. That's it. Awesome. Well, that does it for our horror in the movies. We'll be right back with our famous game. Hook up, hack up or shack up.
01:52:09
Speaker
Oh God, I love this game. Fuck, kill, marry. Let's do this. Okay. I'm gonna kill RuPaul right right now. No, kidding. I'm gonna marry RuPaul because she has all the money.
01:52:23
Speaker
Folks, that was episode 130 of our lovely podcast. But listen, before we let you go, we have a game we want to play with you. And this is when we haven't played this one for a while. It's called Hook Up, Hack Up, or Shack Up. Kind of like a merry fuck kill, right? Is that it? Or whatever it is. So Andrew, um how do we play this? Tell us again.
01:52:44
Speaker
So basically we're gonna give you three choices, and by we, I mean us. I don't know why I said it that way. True, true, true. But we're gonna give the three choices and we're gonna decide who we're gonna hook up with, who we're gonna hack up, and who we're eventually gonna shack up with. Okay, cool. So Maddie, your first choices are from Hellraiser, and they are Frank, Steve, and Larry. And Steve is Kirsty's boyfriend. Steve is the boyfriend, right? Okay, yeah.
01:53:14
Speaker
I'll tell you what, I better not better not shack up with anyone but Steve, quite frankly, or it's going to be a really bad life. So I will I'll shack up with Steve. I will hook up with Larry, I guess, and I will definitely hack up Frank. He's fucking out of here. You're done. How about you? For me, you know, on a on a hookup scale at a one night stand. I'll try Frank. Why not? OK, all right. I'll hook up with Frank. um I will hack up Larry, probably because he's just such a little doofus. And I'll probably shack up with Steve because it seems like a nice guy and he sticks around to the end. OK, cool.
01:53:55
Speaker
All right, your next one, I'm gonna go to Gerald's game, then we'll circle back to Hellraiser at the end. okay Gerald's game, you have your choices of it Gerald, the moonlight man, or Mike Flanagan. Oh, boy, wow. i' Definitely shacking up with Mike Flanagan. He's such a nice guy, too. you like He would like be a good husband, for sure. um I'm going to i'm gonna hook up with Gerald. He's a fucking weirdo, but I mean, what am I gonna do? Have sex sex with the moonlight man, for God's sake? No.
01:54:23
Speaker
So I'm going to hack up the moonlight man, if that's all I can do. Yeah, I am also going to ah shack up with Mike Flanagan because he seems like a wonderful partner. I'm going to hook up with Gerald because you know what? I've never had like that kind of a that that kind of a sexual experience. So I'll try it once. And then you know what? That moonlight man, he's got a lot of trinkets. I'm going to hack him up and I'm going to go sell all those trinkets to the It's a good idea. Get them fucking out of here. Now, Andrew, let me ask you back up to Hellraiser pinhead, butterball or chatterer. Oh, we don't even get to throw in this situation. Jesus. um Terrible choices all around.
01:55:04
Speaker
I'm going to shack up with Pinhead because he's the leader. He's got all the power. So that's just where I'm going to go. um I'm going to hack up Butterball because I don't I know. No, thank you. And you know what? I'll hook up with Chatter because he moves so quick that I think it'll be over quickly. Yeah, just so so I'll just don't put anything in that mouth. That's all that's all I got to say. um I am going to also shack up with Pinhead because What the fuck else am I going to do? I'm going to hack up chatter because chatter just freaks me out. Not that butterball doesn't. So I just think butterballs got a tongue at least that we see. So maybe that might do something here. At least we got that. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough.
01:55:50
Speaker
Whoo, that's a tough one. My God, that was that was rough. Jesus, nobody wants to do it with the CineBites. So, ah Andrew, what a wonderful Episode 130 we just had right there. Before we let everyone go, though, just a couple of things as usual. If you want to support our lovely little podcast, ah you can. It's really easy to do.
01:56:10
Speaker
You just go to our website at www.frygay13.com slash support, um and you can be become a patron on Patreon or you can buy some of our merch. um The patron stuff, look, it's really easy. ah you You can just join for a dollar a month.
01:56:28
Speaker
Um, and if you join for a dollar a month, it's a really wonderful way to support us. Um, and look, it's not like we're PBS here or anything, but like, look, you know, it costs money to have a podcast cost money to record on the stuff we're using right now for the software that we use for some of the social media stuff that we have to get done. So your support just helps us continue with the show and helps us keep getting the word out there as we can keep building the fry gay community. So, uh, any support that you can give us is, uh, is appreciated. And Andrew, I think we have a new patron. Is that true?
01:56:58
Speaker
yeah Well, we announced this on the last episode, but thank you to Ronnie Rice for joining. um But I just want to say, like if you can't do it monetarily, we totally get it. But like you got to do something. yeah so If you can't do it that way, please leave a review on either Apple Podcasts or Spotify. um That's what keeps us going. um in like Honestly, like when I refresh the page and I see that someone left a new review, it really does like raise my spirits and make me feel like, oh, this is all worth it. like hate hate andrew i'll just tell I just want to say one thing to a particular listener who left of a really ah stupid review of us recently and look you don't have to like our show I don't care if if I don't care of you if you leave us a bad review based on the merits of what we do
01:57:49
Speaker
But I'm going to tell you this right now. No one ever calls me a fascist in an interview. And if you ever do that, you have, you're talking about the wrong person. I am not that. And I really hated reading that review. So Kramer Iksen, you can fuck off. And if you don't listen to our show again, I don't really care. Thanks.
01:58:10
Speaker
He probably wouldn't have made it this far anyways. I hope he didn't. Good. All right. Well, that does it for episode one 30. I can't believe we're on to another ah milestone and we're crazy going 150 is not far away, Andrew. We're doing it. We're making, we're making it crazy. there Exactly. yeah so come around with us Get ready for episode 400. Only if you, only if you donate $20 a month. No, I'm just you're right. Right.
01:58:41
Speaker
um So that will do it for episode 130. We're happy to be with you in this spooky time of year and the fall and the leaves are falling. Or maybe it's cold where you are if you're in Australia. I don't know. it in climates you It's freezing here. Andrew, it's not even 50 degrees here right now. It's fucking cold. Oh, no. But well, what what you can always do instead of you know reaching for weather and trying to figure out all that stuff is you can go ahead and get slayed.