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EPISODE 136: SPORTS ARE TERRIFYING (WINTER EDITION!)
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If the idea of barreling down a steep mountain with nothing but sticks strapped to your feet sounds like fun… you might be insane! And in this episode we’re talking all about how terrifying it is. But also— we’re talking about transgender athletes and the INSANE bias and bigotry they face in sports. Listen in, and get fired up!
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
DAMIEN: OMEN II and CURTAINS ought to scare you enough to never watch the Winter Olympics again!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
–
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Transcript
Introduction and Show Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
Frage the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frage13.com.
Matty's Unique Hockey Perspective
00:00:20
Speaker
i
00:00:29
Speaker
Matty, why are you wearing that hockey uniform? It's all part of my new sports kink. I'm sorry, your what? My new sports kink. So you're like having hockey sex, is that it? Surprisingly, no. The the kink here is that I'm actually so terrible at hockey, and I join this team with other brothers from Suka Deek and we lose every game.
Episode Teaser and Host Introductions
00:00:53
Speaker
But then the other team yells at us and it really gets us off. But that's it. No sex at all.
00:00:59
Speaker
Oddly I get it, and Maddie, you never cease to surprise me. Me too. Get ready for more surprises in episode 136, Sports Are Terrifying, Winter Edition. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the
00:01:30
Speaker
We are in real life.
Winter Sports and Transgender Athlete Discussion
00:01:32
Speaker
Doubtters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it
00:02:01
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. sometimes is what I normally do sports. Everything is canceled here for the next couple of days. So what better time to ask the sports guy to come in about five hours normally earlier than he would normally wake up, go stand out in the wind and the snow and the cold and tell other people not to do the same. I didn't even realize that there was a 330 also in the morning.
00:02:32
Speaker
ah until today. How do I get that Storm Chaser 7 duty? I feel like Clint got the better end of that deal. You know, that thing's heated. um The outdoors currently is not heated. I've got good news and I've got bad news. the The good news is that I can still feel my face right now. The bad news is I kind of wish I couldn't.
00:02:54
Speaker
Welcome to Frage the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Andrew. And my name is Matty. And here we are here today with all of you folks to celebrate episode 136. Yeah, that's right. We've spent 136 episodes discussing horror in real life and horror in the movies. And today we are back to discuss a familiar topic, but with a twist.
00:03:24
Speaker
That's right. It's sports, but this time we're talking winter edition, winter sports. You know, it's, it's January. Um, we're all inside. It's, it's the worst month of the year. Let's just be honest. It's not great. It really isn't.
00:03:42
Speaker
And so we thought maybe we would discuss some fun things that happen in winter because um there's a lot of negative shit happening in the world. And so we thought we'd focus on something that's a little bit more fun, but with a fear tactic. And ha I mean, yeah, I mean, like, look, it's I mean, man, the world is is in such a bad place right now. Like and Andrew and I were just talking about it before we we came on. Like we both had bad weeks at work, quite frankly.
00:04:12
Speaker
Fucking we're recording this on the eighteen it's gonna be DJ T in on Monday. It's just like I'm so done with everything right now. I really am so um Yeah, we're gonna talk about sports Yeah everything yeah yeah sucks and And I don't know what else to do. I'll be honest. i'm I'm pretty forlorn about the world I'm sure a lot of you are too Um, so anyways, look sports, um, sports, I think it actually is a really, a timely topic to discuss.
Sports Events and Transgender Athlete Policies
00:04:40
Speaker
Um, I mean, look, the, the not too long after this episode airs, the, uh, the super bowl will, will, will occur, which is like arguably like the biggest sports event, um, in the world. Um, certainly one of the most expensive, the Olympics just happened this, like this last summer in Paris. And they will be happening in, uh, what is that? 2026. Correct. yeah and I don't see. I can't remember, but I like city, baby. Oh, are they in Salt Lake city? Yeah. Haven't weren't they there before?
00:05:08
Speaker
Yes, they were in like the 90s. And now they're back in Salt Lake City? Well, there's not a lot of places that have snow anymore because of a global warming. Great. Another thing that just is really great about life these days. Isn't this fun, everybody? um You know, like you know, what's like, I swear to God, like a nuclear, a nuclear attack will happen and we'll still be doing this fucking show. I know. will be like It will be like nuclear missiles are terrifying. Here we are.
00:05:34
Speaker
but Um, it's so for over or we'll try to find some way to make it better. I don't know. Anyways, I do think it's really topical beyond just like sports events occurring and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like look, you know, you, you, we're not going to talk about it, you know, ad nauseam here, but like you do have the Trump administration coming in. You do have really sinister new laws that are going to take place and this and that whatever among them are transgender bands in, in ah but but i can't speak today in and not just like professional athletics. it's actually the The more sinister thing here is that the the the the trans bands for sports are happening in high schools and middle schools and elementary schools.
00:06:13
Speaker
And in like pop warner and in like you know whatever other like extracurricular i can't think of of other ones right now but like ah where kids play sports outside of school like that's where the bands are happening and it's really really scary because you're basically just telling kids like
Misinformation and Transgender Rights
00:06:29
Speaker
you're you're actually not what you say you are.
00:06:31
Speaker
and your identity doesn't matter and it's it's really scary. and Actually, Andrew, that's one thing that I want to bring to this episode today. is you know I think a lot of the um the arguments against transgender people in sports, it's always like if if if you think about it, it's always like, well, they're just men, so they have an advantage over women.
00:06:53
Speaker
And actually, there's a lot of research that proves that that's actually not true. And there's one article that I found in Forbes. Forbes is actually like a little liberal bastion, believe it or not. You would never guess it with Forbes dot.com, but like they are. It's it's yeah i kind of bizarre. if It is weird because when I think of Forbes, I think of like money. I think of like um like stock exchange, like that kind of a thing, like not really like talking about like Culture stuff, you know, but turns out Steve Forbes not that bad of a guy anyways article there from Lindsay Darwin This is from back in April of 2024 and it's called transgender athletes could be at a physical disadvantage new research shows
00:07:37
Speaker
So i'll just ill'll I'll skim through this, but I think it's really worth hearing because we never hear this side of it, right? So transgender athletes could be at a physical disadvantage compared to their cisgender counterparts. so challenging excuse me Am I allowed to say cisgender anymore or is that too offensive for Twitter? Anyways, I digress.
00:07:56
Speaker
Oh, no, exactly. Right. They might ban me on their challenging claims that serve to exclude transgender athletes from participation in sports that coincide with their gender identity. A recent cross-sectional study examined the athletic capabilities and potential differences among trans and cisgender athletes. This investigation was the first to be funded by the International Olympic Committee on the subject and marks the first analysis on athletes who have undergone gender-affirming hormone therapy.
00:08:32
Speaker
The study, which was published earlier last year in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, a leading peer-reviewed journal in sports medicine, ah examined the athletic capabilities of 35 transgender athletes compared to 40 cisgender athletes. The study assessed cardiovascular performance, strength, and lower body power among 23 transgender women 12 transgender men, 21 cisgender women, and 19 cisgender men. All transgender participants had undergone hormone therapy for over a year, and both cisgender and transgender participants were actively engaged in competitive sports or underwent physical training at least three times weekly. So here are the significant findings from that study. And this is really interesting stuff.
00:09:24
Speaker
Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lower body strength. Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lung function.
00:09:40
Speaker
transgender women had a higher percentage of fat mass, lower fat free mass, and weaker hand grip strength compared to cisgender men. Transgender women's bone density was found to be equivalent to that of cisgender women, which is linked to muscle strength.
00:10:00
Speaker
there were no meaningful differences found between the two groups hemoglobin profiles. Hemoglobin plays a crucial role in athletic performance by facilitating improved oxygen delivery to muscles. Elite endurance athletes may exhibit up to a 40% higher level of hemoglobin compared to untrained individuals. Moreover, ah heightened levels of hemoglobin typically correlate with enhanced aerobic performance.
00:10:29
Speaker
Now, similar findings have been echoed in previous reporting. According to a recent report that generated an in-depth review of all English language scientific literature between 2011 and 2021 about trans women athlete participation in elite sport, several key conclusions give but conclusions coincide with findings from the IOC funded ioc funded study, pardon me including these four things.
00:10:57
Speaker
Biomedical factors such as lung size, bone density, know and hip to knee joint angle are not indicative of athletic prowess. Testosterone very important testosterone levels do not predict athletic performance or overall athleticism.
00:11:16
Speaker
that one right there turns over heaps of criticism about trans athletes. It's almost like maybe if people practice at something, they get better at something weird. Exactly, right. Go figure how that works. Conversely, social elements such as nutrition, training, right to your point, Andrew, social elements such as nutrition, training regimen, and equipment accessibility,
00:11:45
Speaker
significantly an athlete's performance. So strange. same but our But are frequently disregarded in policy formulation. Go figure. Weird. it's It's imperative to integrate both biomedical and so and social scientific insights into policy making processes. so However, there's a tendency to prioritize the biomedical research excessively, which can compromise the overall well-being of athletes.
00:12:14
Speaker
Now look, I could go on and on, but I think I made the point. yeah yeah yeah the the the The study clearly negates every single fucking thing they say about transgender athletes, and it's insanely ridiculous that people just let it happen. Worse, it is ridiculous that people believe it.
00:12:32
Speaker
They just walk around believing it. And once again, I'm not going to go ad nauseam about fucking Trump, but the fucking world has gone mad with disinformation. It has gone mad with misinformation and people are so anti intellectual. They're so anti knowledge. It's no longer cool to be smart. It's no longer cool to know something or to go learn something.
Winter Sports Experiences and Dangers
00:13:00
Speaker
It's cool to be a dumb mother.
00:13:03
Speaker
fucker. And you know what? I'm fucking tired of it because it actually hurts people. It actually hurts people. And then just to you know correlate it a little bit further into other things that are happening, that same pattern of of of taking in shit and calling it cheese for yourself is is hurting people on social media. We've got social media bans, well not bans, the relaxing of bans and the relaxing of policies that are gonna hurt transgender people even more and they're gonna hurt our LGBTQ community even more. It pisses me off to no end the world that we are about to step into because the one that we're in right now already fucking sucks. So it is a pile of shit and reading this article made me so fucking mad
00:13:49
Speaker
And I hope it makes you mad too, because here's the thing, and then I'll shut up. you're all going to be called on very soon to stand up for transgender people. And it might happen quietly online, right? Where you might be called to do it from your fucking chair with your keyboard and you'll be more likely to do it there. But even then you might pause. But what worries me more is sort of like the effect of like um the studies of when they show like oh there's a woman being raped on the street and no one does anything.
00:14:21
Speaker
Or I'm thinking about the recent thing that happened in New York where a homeless woman was burned alive in front of people and no one did anything. They just took videos so all day. They just took videos watching her burn. They didn't do anything. That kind of shit is going to happen to trans people walking around, just living their lives. And we're all going to be called on to protect them and to defend them. And I want you to ask yourself, are you ready to do that?
00:14:49
Speaker
Or are you gonna keep eating the shit that they feed you and call it fucking cheese? And fucking I'm fucking, I'm sorry I'm fucking worked up about it, but it is the fucking truth. And everyone needs to seriously think about that shit right there. now No, I mean, you're totally right. And, you know, I knew I, I mean, we, we talked about it privately. Yeah. You know, we'll get back to the subject right after this. I put a promise listeners, but like,
00:15:13
Speaker
We talked about it right after you know right before the right before the election is where if if Donald Trump gets elected, this world is going to get worse. It is going to get meaner. It is going to be cool to be mean again. yeah know And I'm sorry, but like as gay kids that grew up in the 90s,
00:15:34
Speaker
It was cool to be mean then and it was awful for everyone else. So good luck everybody because I'm sorry, but once they come after transgender people, they'll come after gay people, then they'll come after women, then they'll come after the other people. It's never ending. the The agenda is never ending and it's just to push people down and find the weirdos. And if you're not, I'm sorry, but there are more weirdos than there are Like regular people. So get with the weirdos and stand up to these fucking regular people. Sorry. And get ready because when they open that bus door, it's it you better be ready to say, Mr. We are the weirdos. Right. Exactly. And mic drop. Wow.
00:16:18
Speaker
Okay, Andrew, what's next? Sports. All right. Let's talk a little bit about our own winter sports. Like, did you grow up skiing? Did you grow up sledding? Did you grow up doing like? well okay Okay, good point. So I did grow up sledding. um So um Andrew and I grew up pretty much in the same region of the Midwest. we we yeah each Each of us grew grew up around dunes in one way or another.
00:16:42
Speaker
And for me, it was the Indiana Dunes. And so um we were there all the time, like ah you know every weekend of the year almost, whether it was summer or winter. So in the summer, of course, we were there for the beach and for picnics and for whatever. But in the winter, the the Indiana Dunes, which is now a national park, and I love it so much. It's still something that I really love. um But the the Dunes had amazing dunes for sledding. So sledding down the big blowouts at the dunes, that shit was fucking me.
00:17:11
Speaker
It was like looking back at it, fucking crazy for kids. Because what's at the bottom of the dunes? The lake. And you could go right into it. But but but but ah most of the time, there was so much ice and so much snow that there was almost like like many glaciers that that form along along the um along like the coast of the lake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like like you let you were safe. So anyways, we we loved to sled. We we were big sledders in our family. We always went sledding. It was so much fun. You know, put on your big snow suits and shit when you're a kid. But other than that, that's really it. Like I played football, but like football ends before the winter really gets into it. i mean kind of, but back when we were kids, I feel like it would snow in November and that was still football season. you know what very Very, very true. Uh, I guess with climate change, that's changed too. I didn't even think about it. Um, but yeah, like that, that was the extent of it. And I i can tell you like, when it comes to like how I think about skiing and stuff like that now,
00:18:09
Speaker
You honestly couldn't pay me to go skiing. I don't want, I never want to ski. I think it looks dumb. I know that I would be terrified up there. Absolutely fucking terrified to go down a hill or a mountain or any of that shit. You can take me with on a skiing trip, but I will be in the lodge drinking waiting for you to return by the fire. Like that's all I'm going to do. That's it.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, um, growing up like every winter, um, around Christmas time, we would get a new, I don't know if this is like a thing for people, but we always got torpedo sleds, which were like the plastic, like, uh, I don't know how you like molded like a sled. Um, and we had at the time.
00:18:53
Speaker
we had a very, very old um snowmobile that we would ah tie the sled up to. And because we're in the 90s and people don't care what kids do, we would we would tow each other behind the the the snowmobile and like, you know, kind of like a water skiing, you know what I mean? But sledding.
00:19:15
Speaker
And so that was like a big thing in our household. Eventually that snowmobile broke down and then my parents said no more snowmobile because we don't have enough money. And that was just like um the snowmobile that we bought like with the house. I don't know. um But um the one thing that I was very ah privileged to do was ski because my stepdad at the time was part of the ski patrol. So um every Sunday he would have to go to ski patrol, which is basically the people that kind of just like either, you know, help people on the hill or like whatever. And so we got free ski passes to Mount Holiday in Traverse City, Michigan. oh hold it And um so it was kind of a smaller hill. So I didn't really ever feel like unsafe, but like yeah definitely like skiing was like a big thing in our family for like, I would say like a decade.
00:20:07
Speaker
um And but I haven't been since maybe I was like 15. Like it it it's been a long time. And now I'm terrified of skiing because oh there's so many things. We'll talk about it in a little bit here because there's a lot of things wrong with skiing. um But I did want to talk about one thing that happened to me more recently and is that a couple of years ago, I was privileged enough to go to a Blackhawks game here in Chicago. And they were Like, they were like the good seats. Like, it was like the front row, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Right by the glass. We got them through like a company, like we didn't pay for them. And it was so privileged that we had our own waitress. Fuck yeah. In the front. Let's go. But something terrifying happened while I was there. What?
00:21:00
Speaker
And it is one of my like fears. i have I have many fears because ah in high school, I got hit in the head twice by a softball by playing in gym. So i just I have these fears of like,
00:21:16
Speaker
balls in general or those kind of things of balls. Andrew, that that's not what I hear about you. I've actually heard you don't have that fear. Right. And so we're at this Blackhawks game. We're just like watching. We're having fun. We're having a little drink, a little snack, a little thing, because it's all free. So we're like, oh god go for it.
00:21:35
Speaker
And all of a sudden the slap shot happens and this girl gets hit in the face o with a puck. Damn. Because they only have netting around, like, I'd say a quarter of the i mean of the but thing. Is she dead? I know mean, like.
00:21:55
Speaker
She got escorted out and bleeding, but it's just one of those things that I'm like, Jesus Christ, what are we doing? And I'll tell you what, you, you, you give me a puck in the face. You better give me a boatload of money to go with it, motherfucker. God damn Jesus. yeah well speak And speaking of that, I also found another article about another hockey.
00:22:16
Speaker
crazy thing that happened. Oh my. So Adam Johnson, I, I, and this is going to unlock something for you. That's very like final destination. That's going to freak you out. shit great so Great. Here's one more thing, Andrew. Fuck. Um, so Adam Johnson, former NHL forward has died after a neck after his neck was cut.
00:22:37
Speaker
by another player's skate during a game. OK, listen, OK, listen, I think I've even said this before on the podcast. The reason why I don't like to go ice skating is because I have a fear that I'm going to get cut by a fucking skate. And now it's happening.
00:22:53
Speaker
Fuck me. A fatal collision with Johnson's team called a freak accident occurred midway through the second period of an elite ice hockey league game between Johnson's Nottingham Panthers and the Sheffield Steelers. So this happened in England. um Video footage appeared to show that an opposing players skate strike Johnson's in the neck. How did that even happen? I need to look up this video, but I don't want to look it up, but I need to look it up.
00:23:18
Speaker
Um, a terrifying scene that prompted officials to empty the arena as the medical professional personnel, uh, race to respond. And it was their blood spurting out all over the. It had to have been. I mean, that's like your, what do you call that? what Your jugular, right? That's the one that's in your neck. He was only 29. That's like, that's the saddest thing that sucks. But, um, yeah, I want to look him up right now because I bet he's cute too. i Like a hockey.
00:23:45
Speaker
in general really freaks me out. It's it's so brutal, man. but Well, it's not only that, but it's also like in in it's in its most innocent sense, it's on open water.
00:24:00
Speaker
that you can't control. I mean, I know professional is not, but like where it came from is open water on a pond, which you can't control. It has weapons, hockey sticks ah for its, its main thing and pucks, which fucking hurt. If you've ever been hit by a puck, which I have.
00:24:21
Speaker
Oh man. yeah um i if If you, I mean, look, you can look it up if you want to see some photos, but Jesus fucking Christ. Oh, that's, that's, yep. I've never, look, I've never gone ice skating. I don't want to, I don't want to sit. It's, it's tough. Uh, and speaking of ice skating, we can't, we can't talk about winter and ice skating and all of the stuff without talking about the one and only Nancy Kerrigan.
00:24:48
Speaker
Oh, Nancy Kerrigan, baby. Damn. What a story. What a fucking story that whole thing is. God. And I got to tell you, it is it is near and dear to me because my mother looks very, very similar and had a very similar hairstyle in the 90s to Nancy Kerrigan. You know what? Now that you're saying it, she kind of does. I guess so, so much that one time we were boarding a flight And the flight attendant looked at my mom and said, oh, my God, do the impression, do the impression. Are you and what does my mom do? My mom looks right at him and she goes, my leg, my leg. Oh, my God. That's insane. So let's talk about it a little bit.
00:25:39
Speaker
because this was a big part of like 90s culture. if you If you even followed Olympics at all, you knew Kerry Strug and you knew Nancy Kerrigan. And Tonya Harding. Yeah. And Tonya Harding, to be honest. So on January 6, 1994, Nancy Kerrigan, a American figure skater, was struck on the lower right thigh with a baton by assailant shame stra Shane Strant as she walked down a corridor in Cabo Arena in Detroit, Michigan. ah She had been practicing skating there before her big ah debut. um The attack was planned by Jeff Galulie. I still will never get over that name, Galulie. I know.
00:26:24
Speaker
um Then the husband of fellow American figure skater, Tanya Harding, and his co-conspirator, Sean Eckhart. So basically what happened was these three, Tanya Harding and Sean Eckert and Jeff Golouly planned to sabotage ah Nancy Kerrigan to basically take her out of the competition. um That's kind of the whole story. ah You can take it for what it is because there are many different angles to the story. I'm not blaming anyone. I'm not saying anybody did anything.
00:27:01
Speaker
not wrong, but, uh, Kerrigan was taken out because she was a competitor. And it basically what basically what happened was Tonya Harding was kind of blamed for everything. Um, I know other people were sentenced and whatnot, but she was kind of took the, the bloat of the blame just because she was the more public figure at the time. i mean Have you seen, have you seen it, Tonya?
00:27:25
Speaker
I have. yeah Yeah, it's it's a really fantastic movie. um And not not to interject, but just it's I think that when you really learn the whole story, I mean, I'm not saying it's it's not like a biography or anything, but, you know, like when you learn more about the background of it, it starts to change a little bit for you. You know what I mean?
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it, when you, when you really look at the, the, the sum of it all, it really comes down to someone that was very privileged and had a lot of money and was able to afford basically a certain area of training and practice and da da da da. And then a very disenfranchised person that was just really, really trying to make it up in the world and you know and got roped into something bad. like And and this they made some bad decisions. What she did was awful, of course it was, but like she got roped into it in a way that I think not everyone understands, if you don't know the story, and that's that's the shitty part.
00:28:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it makes, it honestly makes a lot of sense given the world that we're in is just like you, you take what you get. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I don't know how to explain it, but like the, the, the older I get, the more I kind of understand, not necessarily like attacking people or killing people or like whatever. But like, I get where people are like, shit, well, I gotta take what I can get. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's not to bring it up, but it kind of goes back to like the Luigi Mangione thing. You know what I mean? It's like, look, I would never kill somebody. That's not part of what I can do. But like, you know, there's also some obituaries I don't mind reading. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Of course. You know, like, that's That's just the fucking world, man. And at the end of the day, we're all animals. It's just, we, we have a code that we said, Oh, this sounds good. And that's what we're doing. I mean, that's it. And honestly, it's so silly. The things that we like, okay, for instance, we're talking about winter sports right now.
00:29:26
Speaker
do you think it's kind of silly that we like totally like take we're watching people dance on ice and but then we're scoring them like you know what I mean like it's it's fucking weird it is weird like as as humans all that we are like All that we need are shelter, food, water, and like stimulation. i guess like that's like yeah but i I think that people really do forget often that like everything around you is just a choice but right that we made. like that if this This isn't something that's been around since the dawn of mankind. right right it's like we just make We just make shit up, man.
00:30:09
Speaker
We do. We make it up. But we believe it made up. We believe it's so hard that like it just like kind of goes and like, you know, it's it's kind of cool, right? I mean, like like you just said there, we watch people dance around on the ice and we score it. And like, there's actually something cool about that because it makes people get better. And like, you know, like like when I think about like running, for example, I still love to run after all these years and I still love to get better and better and better on my time or my distance or whatever.
00:30:34
Speaker
Or, you know, like when you, when you do watch, like when I watch a college football game, it's so exciting because I really want like, you know, my guys to win for whatever reason inside of me, it makes me feel like I'm part of something, you know? And none of that is intrinsic to survival, right? But like, but like, it's, it makes survival better, you know? Like, because there's something beautiful about it. It's like, we we don't need love to survive, right? But actually,
00:31:01
Speaker
Like maybe we do because maybe without love, we can't, you know, procreate, you know, like maybe it's it's it all kind of goes together. It's such a bizarre thing. Existence. It's so weird. the The layers that we have added on to existence is so fascinating. Yeah, I can't wait for the aliens to invade like, you know. All right. Well, we talked about skiing a little bit earlier. ah You are not a fan. Have you ever even attempted tried anything? Not going to.
00:31:31
Speaker
Oh man, it is kind of fun. I will say that. answer no like i can't um Not even like a bunny hill. I can't get you to even try a little toe rope. I mean, like maybe a bunny hill, you know, but I will say this, like, you know, um, like my boss, who' who's a really great guy and like some of his pals, they, they go skiing and like, you know i'm not goingnna I'm not trying to be weird about it, but they all got some money, you know what I mean? so like oh it's a It's an expensive hobby. Oh, yeah. And i over here in Europe, people go all out for this shit, man. And I mean, like from top to bottom, you got to spend some cash. And like you know one of our friends, and i won't give I won't say his name, but one of our friends and like and like his family, like they go it's like decked out in Louis Vuitton and all this kind of shit. Oh, no, I don't do that shit. Oh, man. And so like these ski trips that they go on are so expensive.
00:32:19
Speaker
It's fucking insane. I'm crazy. all I'll say to that, is there like two different ways of doing this? Like yeah you can, you can do that, but like, I can also take you to like a Michigan, yeah of course like very like normal Hill that people are going to be in there.
00:32:36
Speaker
Columbia's lets going which Yeah, you know if that might be fun for me to do a little bunny hill like it's and it's no big deal even that I'm gonna fucking fail on but now I have to ask you and if the choice was put before you would you be a skier or us are are ah ah ah the What's the other one snow snowboard? Yeah I mean, snowboarders are like, in my brain, like snowboarders are equally as hot as like skaters. Do you know what I mean? And like, if there's one, one thing that's always stuck with me from my youth in terms of like, who's fucking hot? You know what I mean? and Fucking skater, dude. Fuck. Skaters are so hot and snowboarders are also hot. You know? Well, I'm only asking because I think once you commit to one, you can't go to the other because like, this and
00:33:22
Speaker
When I was younger, you know, snowboarding was just like just on like the horizon, like it just like really started. So I learned on skis. I tried to do snowboarding and it didn't work so different. It's so different that once you learn one, you can't unlearn it. I mean, I imagine I would I would probably just do skis because it just seems more traditional. And like I i think I might like the idea of like having my feet locked into separate things instead of one thing, if that makes sense. That is a fear I have with snowboarding is that you your your your ankles are locked in and they don't break off like it. So when when you're in a skiing accident, you actually like the skis like break off like they they they release because there's like a mechanism. Good snowboarding. You are locked into that. So I think you roll. No, thanks, dude. Good night. but No, sorry.
00:34:17
Speaker
Alright, let's talk a little bit about skiing. um Skiing actually is one of the most dangerous sports in the world. See, what I don't want to do it. There you go. um The most typical skier death in Colorado is a 37 year old experienced male skier wearing a helmet who loses control on an intermediate groomed run she and hit a tree.
00:34:41
Speaker
and the majority of deaths 54% occurred on blue um so blue I don't know if you know the diamonds so there's um like there's like green
Celebrity Ski Accidents and Media Portrayal
00:34:50
Speaker
like black diamond kind of thing whatever yeah so so green is the easiest then you get to blue then you get to black and black is like um Like you could then you get like double diamond and like triple diamond. And those are like the hardest ones. So blue are kind of like your middle of the ground hills. Wow. um So the most ah majority of deaths actually happen on those kind of hills ah where 31 percent were on deaths were on expert hills. Wow. um The increase in number of people who wear helmets hasn't actually resulted in fewer deaths. Helmets are die designed to protect riders at about 12 miles an hour.
00:35:28
Speaker
Which that's so dumb because the typical skier is going between 25 and 40 miles an hour Jesus so um More than 80% of ski deaths are Colorado are men so Wow Guys, look out for those Hills. Um, 39 skiers and snowboarders perished at us ski areas during the, uh, this is from 2015, 2016, um, that falls in line with a 10 year industry average about 38 fatalities per season. How do these ski Hills afford insurance? I don't know.
00:36:05
Speaker
I don't remember ever signing a waiver when I went to the ski hill. That's just so wild. It's absolutely wild. Researchers at John Hopkins recently estimated that about 600,000 people nationally are injured each year as a result of skiing and snowboarding. Wow. That's insane. That's a second lot of people.
00:36:25
Speaker
Alright, let's talk about some people that actually have died from skiing. And these are celebrities. Alright, let's talk about Sonny Bono, Sonny and Cher. By 1988, Sonny Bono had officially and successfully reinvented himself. After spending the 60s and 70s on stage with then their wife Cher, he found himself in the the restaurant business and and then in politics.
00:36:53
Speaker
He first was a mayor, then a member of the House of Representatives. I don't think people actually remember this, but um he kicked off his second term in 1996 and then unfortunately died in 1998. He was skiing on a holiday in Lake Tahoe with, get this, his fourth wife, yay men, Jesus, um when the tragedy happened.
00:37:17
Speaker
Um, basically what happened is he, he, he was, he, he hadn't been wearing a helmet, but you know, knowing our research, we just read that doesn't really matter at all that much. Uh, he hit a tree with such force that it wouldn't even have mattered. Um, you know, when we're going down a hill at such a speed, we think maybe take down the trees, but you know, it's, it's not a thing that we humans think about. Um,
00:37:47
Speaker
Another one, Mikel Trudeau, which I didn't know this brother to future Canadian prime minister. Oh, I didn't know this had been on a three day skiing trip in the Kokanee Glader in British Columbia when he and his friends were caught in an avalanche. Oh my God. According to the CBC, two of his friends were pushed off the ski trail while he and another friend were carried into the freezing Kokanee Lake. Well, it basically got he basically drowned because he was pushed into the lake from the avalanche. I did not know that Justin Trudeau's brother was ah the unfortunate event. I didn't know that either. yeah that ohll that That's crazy.
00:38:30
Speaker
access Another political figure, Michael Kennedy, was also killed in a skiing accident. Basically what happened here, this is a very strange one because him and his family had a um tradition of playing football on skis ah where they would pass. Wait, wait, wait. So Michael Kennedy and John John were both killed skiing. Yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
That's insane. I i don't remember that that. I don't remember that. That's crazy. So basically what happened is they were playing a game of football on skis. They had a tradition in their family that they would go down the ski lope and like pass around a football. And basically what happened is Michael Kennedy collided with a tree just like Sonny Bono. They just were not looking um some. It's kind of up in the air because everything with the fucking Kennedy's is up in the air.
00:39:28
Speaker
ah that, like, he wasn't looking, he was distracted by the ball. um And it basically, but then some people say that the snow hill was patched with ice. Like, it's kind of up in the air. um It's interesting because his death came just months before he had made headlines with a massive Kennedy-sized scandal.
00:39:51
Speaker
he had been having an affair with the family's babysitter. I believe he was a a family a father of four with his wife, Victoria Gifford Kennedy. So just interesting that he died then. I'm not trying to create any sort of, I don't know, conspiracy theories, but It's just so, why why does everything just follow the Kennedys? is It's gotta be a curse, right? it's just say Oh, and forgive me. John John didn't die in a skiing accident. He died in a plane. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. God, I really thought, I i had them mixed up. You got your Kennedys mixed up. It's okay. how How could you not? But I really, God, in my head, I thought he died skiing for a very long time. Andrew, I forgot. Jesus, oh my God.
00:40:40
Speaker
But yeah, it's it it's just crazy. And then um very recently, I will to say that family is cursed, like for sure that family is fucking cursed. Well, they probably did some stuff that and and continue to do things today.
00:40:57
Speaker
And ah recently, Gaspard, I meant to look up is how you pronounce his last name, but he's French. ull um He actually was just going to be in moon night when he tragically had a when he tragically died in the resort at the Alps.
00:41:16
Speaker
where he had been and ah involved in a collision with another skier. um This one's very tragic because he he was very young and also he had just like he had just like gotten to fame like yeah out like outside of France. like He was really on like the ah precipice of his career just being like Um, put into a Marvel movie and and whatnot. So very, very sad. And then I think one that hits both of us just knowing our movie relationships is Natasha Richardson. Yeah. God, she was good. Yeah.
00:41:51
Speaker
um Basically what happened here, it's very strange, she was taking skiing lessons with her family um in Montreal and she basically fell and nobody really like thought anything of it. i mean when I'm sorry, but like if you're gonna try skiing, get ready to fall, get ready to hurt the next day because you literally can't not fall. like see and like andrew that like that's the thing with me is like i fall I'm a You know what I mean? And like, I don't want to fall anymore, dude. But once you get used to it, it's fun. Anyway, um, uh, basically what happened is that she fell and everyone was kind of like, okay, she's, she's good. She's laughing. She's joking. Everything. Everything's all good. And then like, of like an hour later, she started to have a really bad headache and they were like, oh, what's going on? And she just was had a really bad headache. And so they finally took her to the hospital. um Unfortunately, by the time she got to the hospital and Liam Neeson, her husband had arrived, she would already been declared brain dead. So so she had a epidural hematoma, which you don't know is basically a blood bleed,
00:43:02
Speaker
um And it it just happened and it's it's it it was show. I remember at the time. It was so shocking because Natasha Richardson Liam Neeson power couple in Hollywood like in every movie we saw. You know what I mean? It's yeah, it was very crazy. But yeah, so you know what?
00:43:24
Speaker
if you like skiing if you like snowboarding do it but just be careful my friends don't it jesus i see these people online that are doing like these crazy like slopes out of helicopters and whatnot and i'm like oh okay like whatever you do you i can do that but like if you've got kids if you've got like whatever like maybe you shouldn't.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's like and he reminds me of it's not winter sports, but like, you know, that that there's like that the free climber that they just like climb a mountain and they're just like fucking doing it with no ropes or any. Fuck that bullshit. And there's like there's that one guy like named Alex Honnold, who like everyone is is he's like the craziest, you know, of them all. And he does his wild climbs and he's got a fucking wife and a kid. And I'm like, what if you just stop doing that? That's fuck. It's fuck. ah Grow up from being honest. Like, yeah. Come on, dude. Anyways.
00:44:12
Speaker
Andrew, is there anything you want else you want to talk about when it comes to vintage sports? No, I think I'm good. Well, we both just got German for us. I don't know. It just it felt like the right thing to do, man. Um, listen, everybody, that's it. So we're going to leave this one here and come back with what you've been watching. Bitch.
00:44:44
Speaker
And we're back with what you've been watching, bitch. What you've been watching, you figure skating bitch. And listen, you fucking bitch. This is where we talk about what we've been watching or reading or whatever. And we each pick four things and it's easy. So Andrew, tell us what's your first thing you've been watching.
00:45:01
Speaker
My first thing is no good deed. Have you heard about this show yet? I have not. No. So this is from the creator of Dead to Me, ah which um yeah sure yeah was really great on Netflix that was unfortunately canceled after the third season, but had a good wrap up. So I'm not really that and injured about it.
00:45:21
Speaker
um No good deed is lisa kudrow and ray ramano are l.a. I won't say uppity ups but they're like upper class and they are basically selling their ah selling their home.
00:45:37
Speaker
and the whole show revolves around the people that are trying to buy it because it's a very like prestigious house it's like on the corner it's very like spanish style like yeah and so like there's i think there's three different couples of different orientations that want to buy the house and it's the whole show is about like.
00:45:56
Speaker
what those couples want from it and ah what they what they're striving for and it kind of follows their different stories. But it's got that dead to me like tone to it where there's something sinister behind everything. Almost like Desperate Housewives type of vibes if you remember that show. um And so I really liked it. It's definitely a one and done. i I do not think that there's plans for another season because it has a very like you know, period ending. And so i i I kind of like that and I'm kind of getting more on board with like these stories that just like have a beginning and end because I grew up in the lost area ah of of television to where
00:46:40
Speaker
You kind of set up a mystery, but didn't have an answer until you had to have an answer. And I felt really betrayed by that a lot in TV. And so I really like a show that just knows what story it's going to tell and just like ends. I think there was another really good show on Hulu called Murder at the End of the World that just kind of had that. Oh, that was so good. I love that beginning and end. And so like if you like that kind of storytelling, definitely check out No Good Deed on Netflix.
00:47:09
Speaker
Very cool. Uh, my first one, uh, I watched a lot of TV shows, uh, silo. Um, so silo is, uh, on apple TV plus, it just finished its second season. Um, and it was really good. Um, silo is, uh, it's, it's a, it's a wacky one. It's based off of this trilogy called the wool trilogy. I actually have the books there by Hugh Howie. Um, and it's basically like, um,
00:47:38
Speaker
There's these people living in a silo and they don't know why they're there like they just are and everything from their history was like like it's like all gone and they don't even know why that happened.
00:47:51
Speaker
And like they know that there was a revolution before, but they don't know exactly what it was. So it's just like this weird, wacky, post-apocalyptic thing. And in the silo, like they have you know they've got food, they've got water, they all have jobs, that and they just live in this fucking silo. But the one rule in the silo is this. You cannot say that you want to leave.
00:48:11
Speaker
If you say you want to go outside, they will put you outside and that's the end of it. And up in their cafeteria, they have this big, huge screen where they can see outside. And outside is just like there's like a fucking tree and like some rocks and that's fucking it. So when the people go out there to go outside and they're put out there, they go out there and they're like this little spacesuit because they don't know what's really going on out there. Like, it did the world, like, is there gas out there? Is there this? Can you breathe? Whatever.
00:48:38
Speaker
They go out there and they basically die. more so yeah Or so you think. So the first season is really, really good. And the second season, it was a little bit of a, it was a little too slow at the start. I'm not going to lie, but it sped up really well by the end of it. And I'm, I'm really pleased with, with where it ended. Um, so yeah, silo is just, it's great. And what's her name? Um, is it Rebecca Ferguson? Is that her name? Yeah. Rose rose the house.
00:49:04
Speaker
She's the main character in it. She plays Juliet. Oh, I'd watch it just for her. And what's his face from Shawshank Redemption? Tim Robbins, right? Tim Robbins? Yeah. So it's Tim Robbins and Rebecca Ferguson. What a great cast, plus a bunch of other really good people. So I think it's a really good show. I've really enjoyed it. If you're into sci-fi kind of stuff, I think it's really neat. So Silo season two, watch the whole thing, man.
TV and Film Recommendations
00:49:31
Speaker
It's good.
00:49:31
Speaker
Cool. When I get my 30 day ah Apple Plus, I will put this on the list. There you go. Yes, baby. That's right. Go. It's the only one we don't have. And I'm like compiling a list of like shows that I just want to like binge when I get it for like 30 days and then cancel it.
00:49:48
Speaker
Um, my next one is carry on on Netflix. This is a movie that was just premiered on Netflix over the holiday season. Um, it's basically my fear, ah like come drew, uh, it takes place in an airport and it is about a TSA employee who sits down at his job one day and a woman comes through, uh, what the little checkpoint, you know, and, and, and, uh, And she says, hey, this isn't my thing. And it's a little earpiece and it says, put me in. He puts the earpiece in and it's basically a guy saying like, if you don't do exactly what I say and let this guy get through um security, I'm going to kill your girlfriend who's pregnant. Jesus. And so it's a thriller. ah So um it stars Taron Egerton and Jason Bateman as kind of like our nice, OK, our normal people. And I you know what, this was like a this is one of those ones that I'm like, I'm kind of surprised this wasn't in the theaters, but I kind of get it why it wasn't like it. It's like an action thriller that I think would do really well and has enough star power to be in the theaters. But I think theaters at this point
00:51:03
Speaker
are kind of failing as much as I hate to say it because I love going to the movies. um And so this one was on Netflix. And listen, it was entertaining for I watched on a Sunday afternoon and it kept me awake and I really liked it. So anything that can keep me awake these days, I'm happy to spout off on on this podcast. So that's carry on on Netflix.
00:51:29
Speaker
Nice. My next one is severance season two, also on apple TV plus. Um, this one actually just came out, uh, yesterday. It's the long awaited new season of severance. I saw a really cool pop up on online that they did for this. Yeah, it's very, very cool. Um, but, uh, the last season came out three years ago. oh my god I go, I know. So all the fans of Severance like me have been, it's it's like I was waiting for fucking Wolf Hall for 10 years for that fucking last season, man. This is when I definitely need the previously on Severance. Yeah, for sure. And like, look, I thought the first season was so brilliant, a genius idea, and just it also something that really cuts to the core of what it means to be like a worker in today's world.
00:52:16
Speaker
um And I think especially that like like an American worker, what that what that really means. um It's so well acted, it's so well written. The cast is incredible. And um the season two, there's only one episode so far, of course, but like it's really, really good, really well done. um And just you know it it takes you right back into it. It it it basically ends like right where, it basically starts right where c season one ended.
00:52:43
Speaker
Um, and it puts you right back into the story. It's, it's really, really good. I would definitely suggest before you watch the new season, like go back and watch the last episode of season one, it will give you because ah there's, there's, there's a lot to remember. So like, you may as well just do that, give do yourself that favor and go right into the next episode. and And I think you'll, you'll like it even more. Um, but I like where it's going.
00:53:06
Speaker
There's going to be a lot of twists and turns, lots of new stuff that we learn on this one. And I don't know, it's going to be cool. You know, one of the things that I like is i I did to see a recent article interview thing with with Ben Stiller, who's the producer and the director. um And he knows exactly how the story ends. And I love hearing that from creators, because like, then you know, like, okay, it is going to come to an end. It's not going to be a Game of Thrones thing where you don't know what's happening.
00:53:31
Speaker
So I have, it's like this kind of story, it's so fucked up and weird that like, you're just like, wow, how does this end? Like, how does this actually come to an end? I can't wait to find out. So Severn season two just started again on Apple TV plus. Cool. I'll put it on my Apple TV plus list. Yeah, baby.
00:53:51
Speaker
um My next one is goosebumps the vanishing which nice fun accessed on many platforms. I think Disney Plus Max and it's Lou Yeah, it's it's on Disney Plus over here, and I think it's also on sky pretty sure yeah Um, so goosebumps, the first season I really liked with Justin long. I thought it was really fun and campy and yeah brought me back right back. Um, season two is a totally different story. You do not have to watch season one to watch season two. Um, it is about fraternal twins. Uh, one boy, one girl going to live with their father in Brooklyn for
00:54:27
Speaker
Uh, the summer and they, I would say they are like that year in between high school and college. So not quite college, but like in between. And, um, their dad is a scientist, a botanist.
00:54:43
Speaker
Um, it plays a lot on don't go in the basement. If you ever read that goosebumps book. sure Um, but then there's also like a deeper mystery in this season. I don't want to give anything away because it's, it's kind of fresh. Like it just came out last week. So, uh, I of course binged the whole thing and in the first weekend it was there, but.
00:55:02
Speaker
Um, David Schwimmer is plays the dad, which was kind of fun to see David Schwimmer, you know, um, but he, it's so funny because he plays opposite people that are supposed to be his peers. But I definitely know that David Schwimmer is at least like 10 or 20 years older than most of these people, but it's, it's fine. Um, and so like.
00:55:23
Speaker
Listen, I liked the season. I think season one was stronger um and in terms of like storytelling and everything, um but I still had fun with it. It's still got that kind of like campy humor. I think that they skimped a little bit on the budget when it comes to like the um special effects, if I'm being honest, okay sure because it does feel a little goofy when the special effects happen because they're definitely like,
00:55:48
Speaker
beheadings of people that are still alive and they're, you know, that kind of a thing. And it just looks, it looks like a faculty level of special effects, if you remember those special effects. yeah sure sure And so like, I still had fun with it. I still enjoyed it. I just thought it was a little bit of a,
00:56:04
Speaker
I don't know, maybe one step down from season one. So I would still, if you liked season one, I would say still watch it. But I still think that the storytelling needed a little bit of a punching up and, and considering how many goosebumps books there are so many, like, can't you find the script? I don't know. Yeah. Right.
00:56:25
Speaker
um My next one is i my another TV show, Squid Games. I watched this as well. I thought about bringing it up, but I decided on on that too. yeah so um yeah i just I just finished watching it this week, actually. um And yeah, look, it's squid gamey again, you know?
00:56:43
Speaker
Um, I was mostly good with this. I think, um, I think at first I was kind of like, wait a minute, are we just going to go back and play more games? Like we're doing this again. And I was like, I'm not sure if I'm really ready for that, but you know, what's so funny about that though, is that the internet was all about like, why don't we just play more games? Yeah. Listen, fuck the internet as usual.
00:57:06
Speaker
But um yeah, you know, I was kind of like I wasn't sure if I wanted that again. I don't know. i just It didn't. I i just didn't. i but You know, look, I didn't know what it was going to be. The other thing, too, is like I will say the start of the season, it was kind of hard to get back into it just because like so much happened in season one and like let's face it, I don't speak Korean.
00:57:27
Speaker
So like, you know, it's it's a little bit harder for my non-Korean brain to like keep it all together. And so, um you know, there's just so many characters, there's so many of this, so many of that, whatever. and So like the first couple of episodes, I was like, wait a minute, who is who again? What's going on? I'm not entirely sure.
00:57:44
Speaker
So like I would say for people, if if if you're if you haven't watched it yet and you're getting back into it, just don't worry about that. Just go with it. You'll be fine. Just let it flow. Let it flow. Yeah. by like By episode four, by episode three or four, you truly will be okay. And it honestly, it really won't matter anyway. So just like keep going with it. You'll be you'll be okay. I think that the some of the new games were really good. And you know the games At the end of the day, it's less about what the game is and more about what that game explores, right? So it's like there is the, um and and people have seen this on the commercials and you've seen it probably online and whatever, but there's the new carousel game where you have to like, that is a game that is really interesting to watch what happens in the show um or like the um the one where they have to play, they they, well, maybe I shouldn't give too much away. Anyways, the games are interesting. So at the end of the day,
00:58:37
Speaker
my worry about, oh, we're back in the games again. What is this? Actually, it was totally fine. um You know, it's a great show that the acting is so good. um The dialogue is good. There's one character in this one that really. I really hated a lot. And so I'm just going to leave it there. The bully guy.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Couldn't or his or his attachment. Yeah. Could not. Could not. I'm not going to say what happens, but could not stand that person like it they drove me nuts whenever they were on the screen. But, you know, beyond that, everything else I thought was was, you know, back to good old squid game. So, look, I enjoyed it. um It was it was ah another fun watch. Crazy watch is always makes you think a little bit. And I'm interested to see what happens for the next installment coming. Also coming this year.
00:59:25
Speaker
Here's what I'll say about what how I felt about this season of Squid Games, because I like you. I really liked it. I thought it was a ah a tour de force of coming back to a like a universe that we don't know and and all that. But like, but if you don't give me answers in season three, I'm done. Like, I'm young. Like, well, I also I kind of wonder if that might be the last season.
00:59:50
Speaker
yeah From my opinion, it better be because you can't stretch this any further. like I mean, yeah, I would agree. I mean, look, i I am very much of the of the ilk that likes things to end. And I i don't need 12 seasons. i i Frankly, I love three seasons. If you can do it in three, fantastic beginning, middle and end. And then you're done and you can you know enjoy the story for what it is. And it doesn't have to keep living on and on and on forever because nothing does. So it's OK if things just
01:00:22
Speaker
are done. There's nothing wrong with that. So let it be done. You know? Agreed. All right. My last one is The Front Room. Have you seen this movie yet? Have not even heard of it. So this is, um, the it's Brandy's new movie. What? Yeah. brandy it yeah It came out in like October-ish. Brandy?
01:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, the singer, the boy is mine, is back. She basically plays a newlywed who is um also newly pregnant. ah And ah her husband, who
The Front Room Film Analysis
01:00:57
Speaker
is white, has a phone call where basically he says, my dad is dying.
01:01:04
Speaker
And he wants us to take in my mother-in-law, who's my stepmother, who also was horribly ah ah awful to me as a child. He wants us to take, he wants us to take her. Sounds like a great idea already. yeah He wants us to take her in. And if we take her in, he'll basically, they'll get everything. They'll get all the money they basically like set up for the rest of their lives. And they're both um like, he's an aspiring attorney. And she's kind of like a adjunct to professor at ah at a college. So like, they're making money, but not enough to like, you know, have a child and like, get, you know, get, get by. And so like, this is like opportunity of a lifetime type of thing. And so they they take her in. And I got to tell you, Maddie, this is one of the most
01:01:50
Speaker
bizarre movies I've seen in a long time. yeah Wait, but it's like bizarre in like a fun way, like you enjoyed it or bizarre like what? Oh, no. Listen, do I think some of the storytelling is a little bit all over the place and a little bit scattered? Yeah. But like the the commitment to the character of this, uh, this mother-in-law,
01:02:16
Speaker
is worth the price of of of ah watching it. ah um it's It's free on Macs right now if if you have that. um But I got to tell you where this movie goes. It is Bizarro Land and i'm not I don't want to give anything away because I just need people to see this movie and I don't think a lot of people did see this movie when it came out.
01:02:37
Speaker
I don't want to say it's like the greatest movie, but the places it goes, I was like, holy shit. And I got to tell you, it is the stepbrothers of Robert Eggers. Really? Yeah. but Who wrote and.
01:02:53
Speaker
and directed it, so. I do know it's on, um I think it's on Sky here, because I i remember seeing it on there, but I i didn't know that Brandy was in it, which is just, but ah frankly, that's bizarre, I'm not gonna lie. I think her lacked last acting thing was, I still know what you did last summer, so. That is crazy, but okay, cool. Yep, I mean, look, if if you're saying that it goes that bizarre, I like bizarre shit, so I'm i'm into it. And I will just say, like it's a little gross, too, so just keep that in mind when you're going. Don't be eating dinner. in this movie. Okay, perfect. I'm not gonna do that tonight, then, when I eat Mexican food. Okay, my last one is an oldie but a goldie. It's the social network, baby. Back to it. um I just thought it was my favorite place these days, you know? Like, I just, it was last weekend, I was like, you know what? I really wanna watch that again. It's like the perfect time to fucking watch this. And watching it again, I think it was, it's a number one, it's such a good movie. It's so well done.
01:03:51
Speaker
And you know you've got Jesse Eisenberg playing um playing Mark Zuckerberg, and you've got Andrew Garfield playing, oh, I can't remember his name right now, but whatever, the other guy that that helped to found it. And and then a you know a cast of other people, fucking Justin Timberlake and all these other people, Armie Hammer playing two of of himself. um And it's it's it's it's it's Aaron Sorkin, right? So that great dialogue and just that that white score style and you know all that you have the score is really good because fucking what's his face Trent Reznor fucking did the score man like it's awesome it's such a good movie and it is a great reminder of what a piece of garbage Mark Zuckerberg really is he is a trash bag he I think for a while even I forgot it I really did and and I think a lot of us did because
01:04:42
Speaker
like Facebook for a minute really was sort of like a place where you felt safer than other places on the internet. And it felt that way for a long time. And Instagram always kind of felt the same way, to be honest. Like it just, these things felt different than if you were on Twitter or different if you were on, I don't know, some other fucking thing. It just felt- I still reckon back to the MySpace days. Oh my God, MySpace, or even Friendster, remember that?
01:05:11
Speaker
um so i mean like I don't know, I think this movie does a great job of just reminding all of us what what a trash bag he is and the depths that he went to to screw people over, how we treated women, how he just didn't give a fuck about anything except making money and expanding. that's all that he ever cared about. And frankly, it's all that he cares about now. So fuck that dude. Fuck meta. Fuck all that bullshit. I'm done with it. And watch the social network again. It will rile you up in a good way. That's my opinion.
01:05:44
Speaker
Cool, well that will do it for what you've been watching, Mitch. Matty had a buttload of season twos in his pocket with Silo, Severance, and Squid Games, all season twos, and The Social Network, now currently streaming on Amazon. And Andrew brought us No Good Deed on Netflix, Carry On on Netflix, Goosebumps, The Vanishing on Max, and the Oscar-nominated The Front Room with Brandi. You have no idea. on on Max starring Brandy,
Reflections on The Social Network
01:06:18
Speaker
everybody. Do you understand me? So um that's it for what you've been watching, bitch, folks. We will be right back with our first film ah of the episode. Damien Omen What happened before was a hint of the horror to come.
01:06:41
Speaker
um The first time was only a warning. William Holden, Lee Grant, Damien, Omen, too. Tell me about Damien. What sort of a boy is he? He's your brother's son. He's a boy you've loved for
01:07:13
Speaker
You mustn't attract attention. You're not gonna treat Damien any different. You're not gonna look at him. You're not gonna talk to him any different. The day will come when everyone will know who you are, but that day is not yet. I know who you are. Say it, Mark. Get Mark away from Damien. Look at me, Mark. Damien, there are things you don't understand. Read your Bible.
01:07:30
Speaker
are
01:07:45
Speaker
You'd better get over here right away. He needs me! I need you.
01:08:01
Speaker
It's time to rip toos dominoos once again because it's time for Damien the Omen 2. Matty, tell us all about Damien Omen 2. The first time was only a warning. Since the sudden and suspicious deaths of his parents,
01:08:18
Speaker
Young Damien has been in the charge of his wealthy aunt and uncle and enrolled in a military school, widely feared it to be the Antichrist. He relentlessly plots to seize control of his uncle's business empire and the world. That description is not real. like That's not like like actually what happens.
01:08:40
Speaker
I mean, it kind of is a little bit. Listen, this was directed by Don Taylor. um But that's actually interesting. We'll talk about that. It's actually also directed by ah by Mike Hodges to written by Stanley Mann and Mike Hodges. It's done by 20th Century Fox. Richard Thorne played by William Holden and Thorne by Lee Grant. Damian Thorne by Jonathan Scott Taylor. Paul stop saying a Jonathan. ah what What is his name from home? ah ah Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Yeah, I couldn't.
01:09:09
Speaker
Paul Buer, played by Robert Foxworth. ah Bill Atherton, by Lou Ayres. Aunt Marion, by Sylvia Sidney. Sylvia Sidney's an icon. um Dr. Warren, by Nicholas Pryor. Sergeant Neff, by Lance Henriksen. Joan Hart, by Elizabeth Shepherd. Mark Thorne, by Lucas Donut. Dr. Poserian, by Alan Arbus. And Dr. Kane, by Meshok Taylor.
01:09:33
Speaker
Film is rated R, it's 107 minutes long, a product of the USA and the UK, released June 9th, 1978, filmed in Chicago, Wisconsin, and Israel. The budget was 6.8 million and it brought back 26 and a half.
01:09:51
Speaker
million. Andrew, tell me your take on Damien Omen 2. Also, I just want to say, one of the things that pisses me off up about this movie is that it's not Damien V. Omen 2. I know. I even said it wrong. It's Damien Omen 2, which doesn't even follow the nomenclature from the first film, which is V. Omen. So i that that kind of shit drives me nuts. Anyways, give me your take. It kind of follows the B movie of it all, though. Like, fair enough. Yeah.
01:10:18
Speaker
Listen, um I famously on this podcast have talked about this movie before, so I won't say it like too, too much. But I think that this is a good predecessor to the first movie. I think that it holds up the ah kind of ah the tale of the first movie. and I mean, it picks up a week after the the goings on of the sheriff's movie.
01:10:42
Speaker
And I think that it's a warranted predecessor. And I think that they, success listen successor yeah yeah yeah, sorry. Um, do I think that they take some leaps? Absolutely. Like, do I, do I think that they like try to like really shoe horn in some stuff? Yeah. But like overall, like I just sat back and like the way this movie just fucking goes, like,
01:11:06
Speaker
in will know And about it, you know, it just for but just but was that never stops until the end. And so, like, I really do appreciate that this just kind of goes for it and doesn't ask for any prisoners um and doesn't ask you to, like, really, like.
01:11:22
Speaker
I don't know. There's not like, there's some deep stuff in this, like obviously with the religion and yeah stuff, but it doesn't ask you to be like a a deep thinker if that makes any sense. Oh yeah, no, it makes sense. um And so like, I think it's like,
01:11:38
Speaker
It's like the B movie camp version of the first movie. um Because I listen, we've talked about the first movie. I can't remember which episode it was on, but we talked about the omen a while back. Yeah. And let's be honest, the first omen is a little bit of a slog. Like it does get good, but like it hate it's easy as fuck. And so like I kind of appreciated that that this movie just went for it and just fucking goes. yeah And so like,
01:12:05
Speaker
Listen, I think it's kind of cheesy, but I also think that everyone is in it to win it as far as I'm concerned. And listen, when we thought about winter sports and we thought about, ah you know, Damien, the only two, I was like, wait, does this have, and I was like, holy shit, this is like every winter sport in it. as flat snowmobiling, it has ice skating, it has hockey, it has everything. um And so, listen, did I like this? And did I like saying, ooh, that's that part of Chicago. Ooh, that's that part of Chicago. Ooh, that's that part of Chicago. Yeah. So, listen, overall, I had a good time watching this movie. And do I think that the Omen trilogy is one of the best in in in our modern world?
01:12:43
Speaker
Yes, I do. So yeah that's me. Maddie, what did you think? Yeah, I think you we we have different views on the omen. and and i've And we've talked about this before. Well, I've talked about before in terms of like how I because my favorite horror movie of all time is The Exorcist.
01:12:58
Speaker
And they are closely related just in terms of like spirituality and theology when you think about it, right? one One is about possession and the other is about the Antichrist, but both that they're they're both in the same, you know, ball game or whatever. They're rooted in the same thing. Or should I say in the same a hockey game? oh um Anyways, I mean, look, I'm not a big fan of Davey Omen.
01:13:22
Speaker
um But but like i'm I'm okay with it, right? And there are some parts of it that I just think are ridiculous. like And Andrew knows this about me. like One of my favorite parts of of any horror movie is the fucking nanny out on the fucking, in part one, she's outside the window just going, it's all for you, Damien, before she fucking kills herself. I think it's hilarious. It's really fucking funny. um But I do agree with you that, um i well, I don't know if I agree with you, but but What am I trying to say here? I'm trying to say this. I think that that this movie is good. And I think it's better than part one. I do. That's what you said, right? Yeah, you did. Yeah. Yes. OK. So we do agree on this. I think it's better for a number of reasons. I think it doesn't dawdle. It just it just gets down to it. It goes for it. Just like you said. I mean, there there are some pretty brutal things in this. David's a little bucket. He's a little fucker. And like especially like when it kills us.
01:14:19
Speaker
What he kills is cousin Mark. like oh That's really cruel. Fucking poor Mark, man. yeah like that that that was like That part hit me in a way that I didn't expect it to hit me, like watching that kid die. That that was pretty fucked up. But like you know in general, my my thing with the Omen is that it's just it's just a little hammy.
01:14:40
Speaker
And like, you know, what what you said earlier, like, you don't have to think very much with it. I mean, like, I guess. But like, that's just for me, that that's not a quality that that's more like a I don't know. It's it's I try to avoid that. And I think that that's that's what happens with the Omen with all the movies, quite frankly, is just it's just so canned. Like, like the the soundtrack is canned. The score is canned. The dialogue is often pretty just like not great. And like even some of the acting like when it's when it's but The acting is so unsubtle that it just gets a little clowny sometimes. A great example of this is um when when the guy goes under the ice, right? and Wait, what's the name of the guy that goes under the ice again? Oh, he's the the manager guy. I can't think of his name right now. Yeah, whatever, whoever that guy is, right? So they're all out on the ice and they're playing this hockey game and he goes under, which is terrifying because the current takes him and like they're trying that
01:15:37
Speaker
That visual is para terrifying. Terrifying man. and and And to be fair, that scene is really well done. But there's a certain part where like his he eventually winds up by ah by a big hole where there is a tree in there and he grabs onto the tree and he's there. And everyone rushes over, they try to get him, but unfortunately he just he lets go and he keeps going.
01:15:56
Speaker
everyone runs on from there but Richard Thorne stays behind and he just sort of like sinks to one knee and puts like you know his fist under his chin and he makes this face as he's going down and it's so like inauthentic that I'm like what who filmed this like what are you doing it's it's It's like, it's like Paliachi, like just going really slow motion. Oh, no. It's 70s filmmaking. Of course. But I mean, like, it look, I mean, we we have to talk about something, right?
Movie Reboots and The Omen Analysis
01:16:29
Speaker
So I think that's just one example, though, that sort of like gets extrapolated more and more. in the It takes you out of it a little bit. Yeah, there's there's always moments like that over and over and over again, and which which all of that to say, look, this is the kind of thing that Maddie should be into. Right. like This should be right in my wheelhouse. And I wish that they would do like I know that they've done remakes. I get that. But like do some reboots that are actually worthy of of the story. And like it could fucking
01:16:59
Speaker
slap hard for sure. Now, all that said, look, i'm i'm I'm being picky because, look, it's my podcast and I get to be. um But like I do think it's better than part one. It's just the omen is just not my thing in general. But in this one, you said Chicago, it was great seeing Chicago in this movie. it's it's you that You've got the Field Museum, you've got City Hall,
01:17:21
Speaker
Science and industry. Plus, you've got Graceland Cemetery is in there too, one of my favorite places in Chicago. I was really cool stuff and it's so neat to see that be part of it. If you're a Chicagoan, which I will always be in my heart, although I live in Dublin now, it's just cool to see that on screen. I love it. Yeah, I was watching this with Michael and he was like, hey, that's my building. He was like, oh yeah, cool. It's so cool to see that.
01:17:47
Speaker
um No, listen, I get your criticism. I totally understand. But like there's just a level for me of enjoyment in this movie, because like it's it's it's almost I don't know if the filmmakers were trying to make this funny, but there's almost like some funniness in here. Like it's almost comical, like how accurate the portrait of Damien is on this like ancient. Oh, do you see it? You're like, what the fuck is this? yeah It's like full color. It looks like one of those like it looks like one of those like big eye portraits. Remember those? Yes. Like and you're like, is that is that where the big eye portraits came from? It's from this. um And I have to. Oh, my God. I have to bring up the iconic um departure of our reporter friend because that scene is and incredible where the reporter goes to.
01:18:41
Speaker
I believe the place that they did all of the um military school is the military base right outside of Lake Forest, if I'm not mistaken. um And so she goes to the military school to try to find Damien.
01:18:57
Speaker
she makes eye contact with him playing football and that's all she needs information and so she she leaves and she's on what the one man says a deserted highway but i'm like you don't drive on a deserted highway so okay And what what is a deserted highway, by the way? And and and I'm sorry, semi trucks don't go down deserted highways. That's not what happens. You know what? Whatever it is, what it is. But her iconic scene of the birds pecking out her eyeballs, her crawling onto the highway and being lofted onto a semi truck.
01:19:35
Speaker
only love only to have the um the the thing go wrong and the truck run over her head a second time because i I did read this in an interview that that wasn't supposed to happen but it just happened and they kept it in the movie. I mean I will say as someone who has been attacked by birds multiple times on the Chicago lakefront getting attacked by a bird is terrifying
Birds, Brutality, and Movie Realism
01:19:57
Speaker
just want to say.
01:19:57
Speaker
So would you call the, I couldn't think I, I meant to look this up before we recorded, but would you call those crows or Ravens? I think in America they're crows. Okay. And so one thing I did ah learn about crows is that they have a memory. They're smart crows. Crows are very, very, I think they're like the smartest bird.
01:20:17
Speaker
Like they have a memory. So if you do them wrong, like they will come after you. So, oh yeah and it is fun. but Also, Andrew, like not not to go off topic, but if you do them right, they bring you gifts. Have you heard about this? Like rats, like for real, like if if you, if you have crows that like visit you and you like put out like plates of food for them or whatever, they will bring you shit. Like they'll bring you like money. Like they they go out and like find you things and okay they bring it back. It's so crazy. Look look up the videos. It's wild.
01:20:46
Speaker
I'm into it. Um, but just that scene overall. And then the other scene that also gets me is the elevator scene where Jesus, we have the doctor who has asked the, the you know, of course, by the, by the way, the black doctor is the one who gets done dirty by the fucking elevator. Jesus. I mean, I mean, to be fair earlier in the movie, we've already had a woman being hit by a semi. I mean, true. Yeah, true.
01:21:13
Speaker
Um, and then that guy being dragged under the ice. It literally, okay. So this is how that Damien, I keep wanting to say the omen, but it's not Damien omen too. Um, the way that this movie works is if you literally speak any words about Damien being a bad guy, you're done. Like now it's it's, it is, it is a final destination for you. it is Um, and so this guy, all he does is he asks the mother.
01:21:42
Speaker
You know, can we do a couple more tests on him? I just want to make sure he's OK, because um the one kill that really fucking surprised me in this one was the the the when the hinge breaks off when that guy was when they're checking all the hinges on the thing. And and he goes, u oh, and then just goes and it throws him across the room. I was like, holy shit. um But he says, you know, we want to keep him back and we want to do some tests on him and make sure he's OK, because he was the only one that's not affected by the gas.
01:22:13
Speaker
And the doctor says like, oh, there's something weird here. And that's when we find out the jackal blood. And you're going to a jackal. He goes to get in the elevator and the elevator plummets just all the way to the bottom, except it stops at a floor three, I think. And the brakes happen. But then the brakes cable snap and a cable comes down and buy sex.
01:22:37
Speaker
The elevator and man, I was like, what are we doing? ah That's what I will say about this movie is like the deaths are fucking brutal. They are. They are absolutely brutal. Nobody gets off scot free in this movie. Like um the one guy at the end who gets ah basically bisected by the train cable car, like whatever you call that, the connector. I was like, oh, my God, this movie is taking no prisoners. None. And then I have to ask you,
01:23:07
Speaker
So obviously we know, um you know, kind of halfway through the movie that Paul, who's the business ah businessman, the kind of like director, we know that Paul's on Damien's side and we know that um the general is on his side. Did you guess the twist about the mother?
01:23:30
Speaker
Um, I think it's good question. I don't really remember from the first time that I watched it. I would say thinking this time I was like, boy, she really like, how many times you got to tell her what the fuck is up? You know what I mean? Like, it's like, she's just constantly like, no, no. And I think she overdoes it enough. Like, especially with aunt Marion, like she's going a little bit as a bitch.
01:23:54
Speaker
I mean, she is looks she crazy, but like she but at the same time, like she goes a little overboard, too, and not. And then and then like, you know, with I think you start to guess that when they're in the museum and she's like, oh, you can't make me believe blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, bitches in on it. Like you you you know that she is in on this. And you know what? He comes in and he lights you on fire anyway, because guess what? The devil doesn't care, bitch. Yeah, that's an interesting. That's an interesting twist on that. Yep, you're fucking done.
01:24:24
Speaker
But yeah, what does she what does she say? ah she's just like She's like, I've always been with him. Yeah. Or something.
Overall Movie Impressions and Themes
01:24:31
Speaker
I did not. I did not catch that the first time I watched this movie. I just thought she was being like a kind stepmother, basically. No, she doesn't love the devil.
01:24:41
Speaker
um And i I just got to say, like, i I just really, really like this movie. I don't know what it is. um Yeah, I mean, and you know what? Like, that that's the thing. I i know that i I was critical of it earlier, but like in terms of the omen in general, it's it's it's not bad. And I really do mean that.
01:24:59
Speaker
Yeah, um a couple of things that I wanted to bring up. I thought it was i I do think it's very weird that they don't take things more seriously after Mark dies. Yeah.
01:25:13
Speaker
because Damien's the only one that's with him. He just randomly dies. And guess what? All these other people have also just died. yeah but and When you're surrounded by that much death, it's like, okay, everybody, come on. And it's not like Mark dies in a freak accident. It's almost like Mark dies of like an aneurysm or something. yeah it It would be one thing if like a tree like has in my mind, I was like, oh, like a tree is going to fall on him or something because they're out in the middle of the in the woods. But no, like he literally just like or you know, one thing I was thinking of is, you know, tragically, I lost family member to a snowmobiling accident. So I thought maybe a snowmobile would be involved because they ride snowmobiles. Sure. Yeah. But the fact that he just collapses and dies in front of Damien. Hello. They don't take a side step to be like, what the fuck is going on here is a little unrealistic. Yeah. Also, let me tell you what, uh, here's a clue. When a kid says, I didn't do anything. Guess what they did. They did. They probably did everything. And especially when he's running back to the house, I didn't do anything. I kept, you know, right. Motherfucker. Then, then what happened? Bitch, tell me.
01:26:17
Speaker
Yeah. Um, one thing I did notice is, uh, aunt Marion is also in one of our other favorite movies that we have not talked about. Beetlejuice. She plays like the case worker. She is. She's so good. That voice that she has is truly iconic. She's a that's from years and years of smoking. God love her. God love her, man.
01:26:36
Speaker
um um Oh, and the other thing that I was like, so the the guy that like, the the last ditch effort to prove to Robert, right? Robert Thorne? Yes. Richard, Richard, Richard, Richard Thorne. Oh yeah, Richard Thorne, Richard. Is that the guy that goes to New York to, you know, see the the wall of whatever. I can't remember the name of it.
01:26:58
Speaker
um that has Damien's face on it. And he's like holed up in like a church, like in a room surrounded by crosses and all this stuff. And he's like really freaked out. He's very final destination, very Devin Sawa. And he, what what does this guy take him to? An open train yard with yeah many, many ways to die. Yes, exactly.
01:27:19
Speaker
What are you doing here? um but and And I got to tell you, too, like when that death happens, like that that was when I think like my my ah my ah willingness to keep accepting just like a random. Sure. I was like, I was like, come on. Like, yeah, it's enough of like random, crazy deaths out of nowhere, like.
01:27:41
Speaker
Come on. And also, like it sort of begs the question, like if the devil or or if it's Damien or the devil or we know whatever it is, if they already know they're going there, like why wouldn't they just like kill them in the taxi or something? You know what I mean? Like what? Why wait for the train? And it it does get over exacerbated because right when they're in the first scene of that, there's like ah ah ah a like a pallet mover like that has like a thing over their head. Why wouldn't you just kill him right there? Like, there's so many opportunities. No, you wait for that one. Like, come on. And by then, yourre your your man has already seen the fucking big eye portrait on the wall. Like, it's just so weird. Yeah, no, I will agree with you. It gets a little ham-fisted towards the end.
01:28:21
Speaker
Um, but like, but the, and I do think that, and I know that we've talked with the writer of final destination, uh, before on yeah on Twitter and whatnot, but I do think that he took a little inspiration from this movie because it does feel a very final destination. Makes makes total sense.
01:28:38
Speaker
Um, it was funny to me that when he, when he quote unquote flies to New York to see that guy, but the director chose to do it in a train field that literally in the background, it says Chicago paper factory. like So it's like, no, you you just, just say you filmed it in Chicago. It's okay. You don't have to go to New York because then they have a subsequent scene where he flies back to Chicago. And I was like,
01:29:03
Speaker
No. And also, if the devil was going to kill you, why wouldn't he do it in the plane? But that yeah, um that's just a couple of things. Any any any good trivia around this movie? um Let's see here. So there actually were two directors on this, as I mentioned earlier, um Mike Hodges, who also wrote. ah I keep saying the wrong title. It's OK. Mike Hodges wrote the movie, um but he was replaced by Don Taylor. And that that was done by by the main producer. And I forget that guy's name right now. um Apparently Hodges was just taking too long and he was really indulgent. And they were like, you know what? We're never going to finish this fucking movie. So let's just go. Like one of the stories was like,
01:29:49
Speaker
I'm hodges like took an entire day of filming for like one scene of Damien like just like coming out of like ah a door or something and they were like ah we're never gonna finish this and we're gonna go way over budget so they were like he's done you're gone you're out of here.
01:30:06
Speaker
so they brought in Don Taylor who I think was known in Hollywood for like being really efficient and getting things done and moving it along which probably speaks to what you were saying earlier what you know what we like about the movie it just you know it doesn't dawdle it just goes goes goes and that's probably really good I i do know that There were a lot of scenes that had to be re-shot so that they all kind of felt like it was the same voice. But there are other parts that were Mike Hodges. So like the whole first part in Israel, that is Mike Hodges. That was not Don Taylor at all. And there there were a few other things too, but that's that's definitely it.
01:30:42
Speaker
um Beyond that, the as we said earlier, the film is mainly set in Chicago, um largely filmed and in ah in the downtown area. Lassalle Street. Right. Thorne Industries. ah The building is actually Chicago City Hall, which is a beautiful building if you've never been there.
01:30:58
Speaker
And another scene took place at Graceland Cemetery, one of the best places in Chicago. It's so beautiful. And then scenes that were supposedly at a New York City railroad freight yard with the Seabot Tower and the Sears Tower clearly visible in the background. Look what I was saying. Yeah, we're filmed at in Rock Island, Railroad's 12th Street inter model yard in in Chicago, of course. The other thing that's funny is there's a building behind it that literally says Chicago Paper.
01:31:23
Speaker
Like it says Chicago, it's not New York at all. um Interesting choice. I think there's a lot of other lore about about um about the Omen in general, but those were just a couple of good ones.
01:31:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I, just one thing to bring up right before we end this, our conversation on this is I did think it was very interesting for a film that was probably filmed in 1977 that was all already talking about famine and already talking about food and plants are the future. And we're still talking about it. Get ready to start eating fucking plant burgers, folks, because that's going to be it. Andrew, what did you rate Damien Omen to?
01:32:05
Speaker
I said, I love how this movie just goes for it. Sometimes it's a little B movie, but I still had a fun ride and I gave it a five. Nice. I gave it a four and a half just below you. And I said, the Omen franchise just always seems so cheesy to me. The franchise always feels a bit too on the nose. Unlike The Exorcist, which I think is aged with some nuance. The Omen leans into melodrama, it's overblown music, canned dialogue, obvious twists. A little subtlety could have made it haunting, but sometimes it's more camp.
01:32:34
Speaker
than chills. Well that does it for Damien Omen 2. We'll talk about another problematic movie when we come back with Curtains.
Introduction to 'Curtains' and Synopsis
01:32:45
Speaker
Behind every curtain someone is waiting.
01:33:01
Speaker
hiding. um
01:33:08
Speaker
What waits behind the curtains is exciting, frightening, sensual, terrifying, and bizarre. Curtains reveal what you expect and what you don't.
01:33:33
Speaker
are
01:33:43
Speaker
three curtains the ultimate nightmare. Draw the curtains, everybody, because we're back with another film. It's called Curtains, um and I've already made one lewd joke about it. So, Andrew, tell us about curtains. Behind every curtain, someone one is waiting. Someone is watching.
01:34:10
Speaker
Six young actresses auditioning for a movie role at a remote mansion are targeted by a mysterious, masked murderer. Directed by Richard Chupka and Peter R. Simpson. Written by Robert Guzza Jr. Production distribution were handled by handled by Jensen Farley Pictures. Striker is played by John Vernon. Samantha is played by Samantha Egger. Brooke is played by Linda Thorson.
01:34:36
Speaker
Lauren is played by Anne Ditchburn. Patty is played by Lynn Griffin. Christy is played by Lesla Donaldson. Tara is played by Sandy Curry. Amanda is played by Deborah Burgess. Matthew is played by Michael Wincott.
01:34:51
Speaker
Monty is played by Maury Chaikin, and Peter is played by Booth Savage. This is not rated, ah released in February of 1983. This is 89 minutes and was filmed in Toronto and Ontario, Canada, and it sure does feel like a Canadian movie. yeah Oh yeah. Matty, is this your first time seeing the masterpiece that is, Curtains? You missed the budget by the way.
01:35:21
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Budget was 3.7 million. Only brought in one. So that's why we don't have any more angry grandma killer movies.
01:35:30
Speaker
Um, curtains. Okay. Curtains is a weird movie. This is a weird movie. Um, and I don't, I don't, I just watched it today because I had a
Critique and Problematic Elements in 'Curtains'
01:35:42
Speaker
very busy week. I wasn't able to watch the films until like just before ah recording basically.
01:35:47
Speaker
um So I'm still thinking about it, if I'm being honest. It's so it's a thinker, man. Yeah, it's um it is bizarre. And it's it's bizarre in a lot of ways. it just like there's There's an awful lot of choices that were made in in this movie. um And I don't think that they were all made by like one mind. And I think that that might be one of the problems with the movie.
01:36:11
Speaker
And like, I mean, look, there's two directors, right? So as somebody who has directed plays before, um I've never directed a movie, to be fair, but I've directed plenty of plays and i've I've had directing classes and I know a bit about directing theory and that kind of stuff.
01:36:27
Speaker
I would say that any time you have more than one director, you're probably cruising for trouble. And it's because a director at the end of the day is the main storyteller, right? like I always say that like actors are not storytellers. And I think people get that wrong sometimes. like Actors are just actors. like They're there to act. They're not there to tell you the story. They're there to like actually believe that they are real, plain this circumstance. It's wild and crazy, but they're going to believe it and go for it.
01:36:57
Speaker
The director is the one who pulls it all together and just makes it happen on stage or screen or whatever the hell it might be. It's like an author, right? Imagine like a book being written by two people. Like every time you get to the one part where the one author wrote it,
01:37:14
Speaker
you're gonna probably be able to discern, oh, that's that person. And the other one is that person because that's just how it works with humans. We're not all, we don't have the same brain. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think that's what this film probably suffers from a little bit, I would say.
01:37:29
Speaker
um But like look, this this is not my kind of thing, and Andrew knows that. like I'm not super into like cheesy 80's slashers, but sometimes I am. like it's it's it's not It's not always a given for me. like Some of them I really love. This is one that i is like kind of middling for me, I would say.
01:37:47
Speaker
it's a And I think it's middling because it's just fucking weird. And it's kooky, and it's a little bit horny. And like, there it's very horny. It's like a horny, you know, in like some weird, what goes like ah there's like a rape scene. And like, you really think it's a rape, but then it turns out to not be a rape. And like, I don't know, maybe that was funny in 83, but I was watching it like, what the fuck was that? Like, I mean, it's like, it's like a fantasy scene, right? Like, like the like There are a couple and like they're playing out, you know, role play and like, look, people do this kind of thing. I'm not sex shaming anybody. But like the way it was done in the movie was just kind of like that's that was cringy. Like it was just weird. and's It's one of my it's one of my worst, one of my least favorite like things that people aren't thankfully not really saying that much anymore is like, don't yuck anybody's yum. and
01:38:37
Speaker
It's so gross. like yeah Like I don't know, rapey, like rape is kind of weird. I don't know, a man. Like it's like, listen to what I just said. Rape is kind of weird. Of course it is, a you asshole. Like it's it's terrible. It's awful. It's why it's not really, it's not cool to do that. I don't know any getting getting past that part of it. There's so many other weird parts and like.
01:38:58
Speaker
I just like the idea of her going and into the insane asylum just to get close to a role and like the striker guy is so fucking weird and all the girls are weird and the dialects are bizarre across the board like where are all these people from i don't really know.
01:39:14
Speaker
And it is strange. It's just strange. That's it. The doll is crazy. Like, I don't, I'm not even sure that I still get the doll. I'm going to be real with you. Like, why is the doll there? What is going on with the doll? Why does the doll have to be a part of the murders? I don't really get it. And the old grandma mask is strange. And the scene in the fucking, like,
01:39:38
Speaker
Like yeah if ah ah what is this casting thing that they're doing and why are any of these women staying for it? Like they don't even do anything like the role of a lifetime. they Like what? if but What is it, girl? I mean, I haven't even fucking seen it and like it doesn't make any sense and you're all just sitting around this house.
Balancing Comedy and Horror in 'Curtains'
01:39:56
Speaker
You're not even doing any acting like you're just like in your rooms noodling around and then like you go in this like this thing that's supposed to be a class and then fucking Samantha Sherwood walks in and she just takes it over.
01:40:08
Speaker
And that's and that's the whole and everyone's like, oh, wow. And I'm like, you didn't even do anything. It's so fucking weird. It's a weird movie. um I like kind of liked it, but not a lot. That's where I'm at with this. How do you feel?
01:40:23
Speaker
So this was one that I blind bought at a horror con. Like, i Oh, really? Wow. Like it was just like a ah Blu ray that I, listen, I think everyone kind of knows the scene, the, the ice skating scene. Like that's like why this movie is kind of like quote unquote famous sickle. Yeah.
01:40:43
Speaker
And so like I was like, oh, I've heard of this, I'm gonna buy this. And I've had it since, I've only watched it once, but ah this was my second watch. And I agree with you, this is a bizarro movie. yeah But like i I kind of give it credit for taking like the story on because it is such a weird story, you know the story of and an aging actress that ah ah willingly goes into insane asylum to, quote unquote, method act.
01:41:11
Speaker
And then like getting left there by the director only for him to just abandon you and recast in ah in for a different role. um And the fact that you know it comes up later in the movie, and I think it's the driving point of of her killing him, is that you know she brought him the rights to this movie. that like it's It's so telling of a time in Hollywood to where like the Weinstein's were thankfully like the end of it, or I won't say the end of it, but yeah the end of an era of it. um And so like it has this like aged, like kind of great, like, yeah, because it kind of shows like how sleazy it was. But like for a movie that came out in 1983, this sure does feel like 1975. Like it's like it's a very old feeling. Totally agree with you.
01:42:05
Speaker
And so like I applaud the movie for like taking on such a weird, and and honestly, like that last twist at the end, I didn't see it coming, did you? No, I did not, no, I didn't. And so like I have to give it some credit. where I think this belongs in the category of movies that could be remade. like this could we could take yeah We could take this idea and remake it because the initial movie,
01:42:31
Speaker
While I think about it fondly on on um on watching it back, while I'm watching it, I just think, why are why are we doing this for so long? Because yeah there are just the shots, and I don't know if it's the director or the cinematographer or what, but like, so take, for instance, the the the the the rape fantasy that you were talking about earlier. We watch this woman in the tub, get out of the tub, dry her hair, put on makeup, put on clothes. We see her do all the, and it's just, and then we see like from the perspective of the quote unquote killer and then back to the killer and then back to, and I'm just like, okay, we get it. Like get on with it. Like that's the thing that I think this movie suffers from is just plotting. It's, it's just too, uh,
01:43:22
Speaker
It's just too slow. Agree. If this is going to be a you know kill them off one by one movie, like we just got to get on with it. We get with the program. Agree. it's Totally. It just takes too long to get to the point. Even the iconic scene of the figure skater, it's in slow motion, my friend.
01:43:41
Speaker
and so like What are we doing here? like Just get on with the killing. um and i and i Listen, i i think it's a good I think it's a good plot and I love that last twist of the of the you know ah comedy queen um because I don't remember literally any of these people's names. I only know them by the funny one, the serious actors. There's two men as one, the sexy one. Yeah.
01:44:07
Speaker
And so like I just think that it's a little bit sloggy. It just feels a little overlong for like what we're trying to do. But when I think about the overall plot and the overall sting at the end, I'm like, ooh, that's kind of good. So like I don't know. I'm kind of in a mixed bag about this one. like I think that a reboot could work because you would get rid of of a number of things. You've got Samantha doing like I mean we we have to presume that like she's from where they all are from but she's just like putting on airs right yeah so it's like for one thing you just have this you just have you got a bunch of different dialects and you like you know how i am with this i i listen very carefully for that kind of thing and it drives me nuts old world film making dialect.
01:44:54
Speaker
That's it. She's speaking in mid-Atlantic, so it's not it's not American, it's not British, it's right in the middle. And mid-Atlantic was literally, I've said this before, but it's literally a made-up dialect that they made for movies to like make it sound like they were like like in between the the the the the the two like main cinematic powers at at the time.
01:45:14
Speaker
And so it's it's a weird thing to begin with, but to have it in this just doesn't it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unless like they're trying to like point out, like oh, well, she's like of the old world of acting and you know and yeah all of the new world, which I don't know, I guess maybe, but they don't have to do that. And I think it takes it takes you out too much. it's just it's It's too much. It feels too contrived.
01:45:36
Speaker
And I think like if there was a reboot where things were a little bit more normalized, this could really work. I think if you you know you you might have to get rid of some of the plot points in here because it's just not going to work. But a reboot about women who are competing for the same role with a ah with ah a producer and director who is a complete asshole makes a lot of sense. And like and how like the the um how the madness of that all drives them to kill each other. Like that could be a really cool movie. I just think if it were done today um in a modern context with better writing, especially I just put it together. It would it would be called Black Swan. And that's what this movie is.
01:46:19
Speaker
like not But not but i mean but that that's a different context though. i mean that that's That's dance and you know ballet and everything. like This is acting. it it's It's a different world. so ailia i I think it could be done and and it could it could be a success. I do. It it is kind of crazy that um I don't know if you notice this, but like that stage in the opening, that is the smallest stage I've ever seen. It's not even a stage. It's like it's not even like elementary school stage. It's like it's like it's like a corner with it's a corner with curtains on it, babe. like it does i like what What are you going to do on that, hon? I do like that they stuck to their theme and all of the interstitials were like curtains opening. I did kind of like that. Yeah.
01:47:00
Speaker
i I did see somebody on letterbox say, you know, there actually are a lot of curtains in this movie. and You know what? They stuck to their theme, which is, which is funny. There is, I'm looking on, on Wikipedia right now and you know, you, you bought the, blue of the, the Blu-ray and, um, there's a, there's a commentary here about Brian Orndorf of blu-ray.com noted the film's haphazard construction, but praise its visuals. And he said that curtains isn't a single film. It's a handful of subplots and ideas competing for screen time under the guise of a traditional eighties style slasher. That makes a lot of sense. Yep. Bizarre seems to mile the description when discussing the movie, which is actually stitched together from two production periods spread out over three years with the original director, Richard Chipka, taking his name off the effort when producer Peter R. Simpson elected to jazz up the rough cut with customary slicing and dicing.
01:47:56
Speaker
Fascinating backstory on curtains is evident throughout the presentation, leaving the picture half-realized, shooing away substance to plow ahead with violence. It's a mess, but an entertaining one makes Chupka's visual ambition and ensemble work from the oddball cast, who deliver the proper level of hysteria to assist with what little suspense remains. That is a really great description of this movie.
01:48:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, our work is done. No, I'm sorry. Goodbye. The podcast hasn't ended. It'll itll ah be done by chat. GPT. Goodbye. um I do. There's one quote in here that I put in my notes that I thought was pretty snappy. And that's I think it's Samantha talking to Stryker and where she says, just because I wouldn't pirouette in the bedroom and skate on your face. sub of What the fuck does that even mean?
01:48:51
Speaker
Jeez, I'll tell you what. Also, if they're going to reboot this movie, it needs to not be Stryker as the name. Yeah. um I also have in my notes how hard it would be to run away from a killer in ice skates. i i was I was thinking that I felt I felt very bad for her right there. I felt bad for just on screen having to do that as an actor. I was like, oh, that's kind of like I felt bad for that character because not only that, but she was like, and I don't know, willingly raped the night before. And so like, ah it's so weird. Lots of problematic things in here. has But listen, it fits our theme because not only do we get ice dancing, figure skating, we see ski lifts, there are snowmobiles. So listen, it fits the theme, you motherfuckers. We get ice dancing.
01:49:40
Speaker
well Andrew, but let's be honest. She's not really figure skating. She's more ice dancing. Good. But tell me, Andrew, what did you rate the cinematic masterpiece? Listen, I think that this one's kind of all over the place, but I still had fun with it. I gave it a four point five and I said an interesting idea for a slasher. Unfortunately, pacing and cinematography choices make this a little bit more of a slog than it should be. But that grandma mask is very spooky.
01:50:06
Speaker
I think you and listeners will be surprised to know that I gave this a four. Um, I bet you thought it was going to come in lower, but I didn't, I gave it a four because I did actually have a little bit of fun with it. And I said, look, it's mostly a yawn if I'm being honest, but you know, whatever the kookiness and the horniness is mildly entertaining. Mostly though, I do think it's a miss. Cool. Well that will do it for curtains. We're closing the curtains, if you will. of us oh Andrew, you've been waiting to say that all week.
01:50:34
Speaker
And we will be right back to close out the show. My toes are numb. You see, because this is what our forefathers did. I can't feel my leg. They walked out into the woods. They picked out that special tree and they cut it down with their bare hands. Mom, I can't feel my hips. Clark. Yes, honey. Audrey's frozen from the waist down. That's all part of the experience, honey. Ooh, shiver me timbers. I'm so cold. And Andrew, I think it's time for us to play a game called How cold is it? What would that game be? The game is where you're going to guess the coldest winter ever in Dublin. And I'm going to guess the coldest winter ever in Chicago. I'm so cold. So cold.
01:51:20
Speaker
Listen, it's January. It's cold. um And we're going to try to make a game out of this because listen, this is what we do and you are entertained by it. So here we go. Maddie, what do you think? that when When do you think the coldest winter was a and how cold do you think it was in Chicago? OK, I've OK.
01:51:42
Speaker
I hope that I'm right about this, but I think it was when I lived there and I think that it was possibly. Let me just think about it a little bit more. It was possibly 2013.
01:51:59
Speaker
And that would have been the polar vortex. And I think that like the actual, like not wind chill, but like the actual, and you're not looking at wind chill, right? No. Okay. I think looking at the actual temperature, I think it really did get down and insane Fahrenheit here, right? I think it got down to like negative 55 or something like that. It was absolutely fucking insane.
01:52:23
Speaker
I think if it ever got that cold, we'd all be dead. But you are correct. There was a polar vortex in 2013. OK. But that brought more snow than temperatures. OK. All right. OK. So the the the coldest on record is 1985. OK. And it was negative 27. That's pretty fucking cold.
01:52:47
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So so i I was thinking wind chill for from the polar vortex. Is that, that's okay. Gotcha. Okay. Now I think what people forget about, uh, like cold weather is like, when it gets that cold, there's no snow. There's no precipitation at all. and It's just cold. It's just, it's just, it's just death. Yeah. Andrew, um, now for Dublin, you get to choose, well you get to guess for Dublin. Go ahead.
01:53:11
Speaker
So knowing what I have heard from you and knowing that it's more a temperate climate in in Dublin, but knowing that, you know, it still can get cold. I'm not going to go as cold as Chicago, of course. So I'm going to say the coldest on record is maybe negative four and you're thinking Fahrenheit right now, right?
01:53:30
Speaker
I'm thinking Fahrenheit and I'm thinking that it probably happened in like late eighties. Okay. So this is actually a surprise to me. The coldest that it's ever gotten in Dublin was in 1961. It was on New Year's Eve and it was in Celsius. It was negative 13.8 degrees Celsius and in Fahrenheit that's seven degrees.
01:53:55
Speaker
Oh, you guys got it lucky over there. Isn't that crazy? It's so wild. But you know, like i've I've said this before, like, I mean, look, I lived in Chicago for almost 20 years and and Chicago winters are seven as normal. I mean, dude, if you've never been and and it went in Chicago in the winter, it is a very brutal fucking winter. It's just a lot of snow. It's very cold in the wind chill is fucking insane.
01:54:18
Speaker
And so like I'm used to the cold, but fuck man. i know Like I've lived here almost four years now and and apparently that is long enough that my body has really acclimated. So like it gets down to like 35 here and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to die. I'm so fucking cold. But like before that would have been nothing for me. I would have i wouldve been wearing flip flops. You know, it's crazy how it works.
01:54:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that does it for episode one thirty six. Wow. Thirty six episodes, Maddie. um you and I'm it's just as surprised as you are. It's but you know, it's a lot, dude. But here we are. We are. Listen, we exist to do one thing and it is to create a little podcast episode for you fucking weirdos out there.
01:55:02
Speaker
Yeah, but speaking of you, weirdos, where are you at when it comes to Patreon? Because you can go on Patreon right now and join for $1. $1 gets you a Patreon membership where you can chat directly with other fans of the show and with us. We're on there all the time. And I just want to shout out our little um our little community on Patreon because They're like kind of the best and they're also like a little bit of social media without having to be on big social media Yes, like really nice. So thank you to everyone that participates in the chat on patreon You can join for free also just saying you can join
01:55:39
Speaker
um We would appreciate the dollar because it goes right back into the show. We don't make money from the show. but We need money to keep it going. so Look, it's it's still out there. If you want to do the one hundred bucks a month, you get a nude from me. That's it. That's going to cost you. That's it.
01:55:57
Speaker
or you can just hit them up on blue sky. exactly Anyways, um but also, as you know speaking of that, ah look, um we've made some changes, to social we we may as well mention a little bit about this now. We've made some changes to social media. um you know Look, we don't keep up our Twitter anymore. and we just like post that We just post a new episode and that's it. The only reason we're keeping our Twitter for now is so nobody can take our handle. That's just it. But like we don't do anything with it. um We will very likely be just sort of stopping our Facebook also and our threads. um And we're doing that because we don't agree with what's happening. That's just the end of it. So you can catch us on Blue Sky. Just search for Friday 13 on there. You'll find us there.
01:56:37
Speaker
Um, and, uh, and beyond that too, like, look, if, if you can't do a, um, if you can't do Patreon, whatever, that's fine. But we are close to some milestones with reviews right now. Yeah. Come on, come on. If you haven't lots of review, we look, could you just, could you just please do it? I don't know what else to say. Like.
01:56:54
Speaker
especially on on Spotify right now if I'm being honest. its like We don't have a lot of reviews on there and there's a lot of you that listen to it because I see that i see the stats. So please just hit it. Just fucking create it. Whatever. We we only need 15 of you to leave a review on on Spotify. Please do that.
01:57:11
Speaker
thing. it would we only need And we only need 10 of you to leave reviews on Apple Podcasts to get to our next thing. And one more thing about Spotify is this, on each episode, you can always like, on every single episode that you listen to on Spotify, you can leave a comment on that episode. Please do that. You you may have seen them because I listen to Spotify for for podcasts now solely. I don't use Apple anymore.
01:57:33
Speaker
So I think that that draws me in to other episodes. So if you love us and you want more people to love us, you can leave a comment and they might read that comment and then they might listen to that episode. So it'd be very helpful. But also Apple, please leave a review there because we're so close to what is it? 400 Andrew? 400. Yeah, we're almost there. So please do it.
01:57:51
Speaker
And you know it's not a lot to ask people. We do this for two hours, two times a month. Come on. It's really not, dude. like Listen, it's Saturday, bro. like i'm but I'm tired, dude. you know i mean I'm going to order some food after this and probably fall asleep. So the least you can do is fucking leave a review, man. And listen, after you leave that review, there's something else that we want you to do, and it is this. I want you to go and get slayed.