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Ep. 17: Boys Get Eating Disorders Too - Talking Bulimia with Sam Thomas
124 Plays4 years ago
Sam Thomas is an award winning mental health campaigner, writer and public speaker. He lives in Brighton and is in recovery from bulimia and alcohol addiction.
I first found Sam in Happiful Magazine, where he's a contributor on mental health issues.
What is bulimia?
Sam is very open in this podcast episode about how his experiences of eating disorders began. Listen to the podcast to hear his very straightforward explanation of how he first began bingeing and purging.
Boys and bulimia
What's really interesting is Sam's point about how eating disorders were always seen as a 'girl' thing. It meant that getting help was even more difficult because of the stigma of being a boy with bulimia. After his recovery, Sam started a social media campaign #mengeteatingdisorderstoo to raise awareness of the lack of community support for boys and men dealing with bulimia or anorexia.
Why do eating disorders happen?
I also had a lightbulb moment when Sam explained that eating disorders are really not about weight. Listen to the podcast to hear his perspective explained so parents can understand what their child is going through, and how best to help.
Where to find help with bulimia
- BEAT has information and a confidential helpline
- Access CAMHS through your own GP
- Read more from Sam in Happiful Magazine
- You can find Sam on Twitter
More teen mental health resources
There are lots more episodes of the Teenage Kicks podcast – do have a browse and see if I’ve covered anything else you might find useful. And if you have a suggestion of something you’d like to see talked about on the podcast please do email me on [email protected] I have loads more fabulous guests coming up to help families navigate some of the most complicated – but wonderful – teenage parenting years. I’ve also got some posts on the blog that might help parents with other teenage parenting dilemmas, so do pop over to Actually Mummy if you fancy a read.
Thank you so much for listening! Subscribe now to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear all my new episodes. I'll be talking to some fabulous guests about difficult things that happened to them as teenagers - including losing a parent, becoming a young carer, and being hospitalised with mental health problems - and how they overcame things to move on with their lives.
I'd love it if you'd rate and review the podcast on iTunes too - it would really help other people to find it. You can also find more from me on parenting teenagers on my blog Actually Mummy, and on Instagram and Twitter @iamhelenwills.
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Please note that I am not a medical expert, and nothing in this podcast should be taken as medical advice.
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Transcript
Introduction to Teenage Kicks Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Teenage Kicks podcast where we take the fear out of parenting or becoming a teenager. I'm Helen Wills and every week I talk to someone who had a difficult experience in their teenage years but came out the other side in a good place and went on to make a real success of their life.
Sam's Story of Bullying and Bulimia
00:00:24
Speaker
My guest this week has a really difficult story to tell and it might be a trigger for some listeners
00:00:31
Speaker
After experiencing severe bullying at secondary school, Sam became bulimic. It's a very frank chat about how it began, how the stigma of a boy with an eating disorder got in the way of him getting help and how eventually he recovered.
00:00:51
Speaker
This is what I mean by a series of Sundays. One thing led to another and just the way things worked out is that, you know, eventually the bulimia sort of almost became redundant, really. I'm really happy to say that Sam now is recovered and is now a mental health advocate, writer and speaker who's raised awareness of how eating disorders affect men, not just women.
00:01:16
Speaker
He has articles in Happyful magazine which is where I found him and that's a brilliant read by the way and he's currently writing his first book. For any young person who has difficulties around food because of anxiety and stress I know that what Sam has to say to his 15 year old self is exactly what they need to hear right now.
00:01:39
Speaker
I don't really know specifically, but probably the first thing that really sort of comes to mind is you're not the only one in this situation, in this boat, in that respect, you know, with the bulimia, I think that would be the first thing. Because that feeling of isolation and secrecy is what really sort of drives any eating disorder, bulimia, Norexia, et cetera. So I think there's an element of that, that, you know, that things will get better, as wishy-washy as that place sounds, but they will.
Understanding Eating Disorders
00:02:09
Speaker
One of the standout moments for me in this podcast was when Sam explained that neither bulimia nor anorexia is really about weight. I asked him to try and make me, as a parent, understand what makes someone continue with the cycle of bulimia once they've begun. And his words really hit home.
00:02:31
Speaker
Before we get started, I'd like to ask a favour. If you like the podcast, please do head over to iTunes and give it a rating and subscribe. I'd be thrilled if you leave a review. It just helps boost it in the charts so that other families can find it. And now here's Sam. So Sam, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for coming to talk to me about something that I think will resonate with a lot of young people. Hi, thanks for having me.
00:03:01
Speaker
Eating disorders is a big one and it covers so many things I know, but it's not something that I've ever had contact with personally. So I'm going to say right off, if I get it wrong and say the wrong thing, please do correct me because the most important people in this episode are the listeners.
00:03:22
Speaker
And I want it to be right for them. I want to make sure that we give them the right information. So there's no better person to be talking to than you. Before we get into the nitty gritty of what happened to you as a teenager,
00:03:39
Speaker
Can you just give us a sense of what life was like for you as a child, how things were when you were growing
Sam's Childhood and School Experiences
00:03:45
Speaker
up? Well, I mean, this is a test of my memory now, being 34. It feels like many, many moons ago. But I mean, my childhood was very sort of quite unstable in many ways, very chaotic. And that's for a number of different reasons. Partly because, you know, I don't remember this, but basically my mother and my dad separated when I was two.
00:04:08
Speaker
Forgive me for asking and feel free to not answer. Was it a difficult home environment? It was for many reasons. My mother, she worked almost every hour, she used to work in a nursing home, no laundry, so I guess she was probably on minimum wage. So she worked all the hours that got sent, as it were, and they were available. My stepdad, he was working very
00:04:36
Speaker
shifts and often antisocial hours. I was often left at home alone, once I was old enough, after my brother and sister, who were five and seven years younger than me.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah. And how old were you when you were coping with looking after your brother and sister some of the time? Possibly about 12 or 13. I think it was when I was old enough to, you know, freely be considered acceptable, I guess. It was needs must in my case. So, you know, and to be fair, you know, I kind of liked sort of being alone, you know, with a lot of freedoms in that respect. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
You can't get told off for watching TV when you're not meant to or eating things from the cupboard. So there is, in a weird sort of way, it wasn't making any complaints at all whatsoever at the time. But, you know, looking back, yes, you know, there was a very distinct lack of stability and continuity in some ways, you know, sort of things that probably did sort of have, you know, realized much later on in life, I guess, had more impact because of that lack of stability, as I say.
00:05:41
Speaker
So were you not going to school at that time then just because you were able to not go and get away with it? Well, basically, I've been amazed to tell that story now that basically, you know, I was really badly bullied at high school from day one, quite literally. You know, I stood out for a variety of different reasons. One was that I had very long hair, a mollock-like hair, like the Beatles, I guess, which
00:06:07
Speaker
was kind of deliberate in some ways because I liked the idea of being unique and very individual to me, which wasn't considered very cool then. And also I was quite feminine, so there was a lot of assumptions made around my sexuality and of course I'd made no conclusion at all whatsoever, no awareness even.
00:06:24
Speaker
that, you know, I could be gay. So, you know, and also, you know, I was very, you know, very intelligent. You know, I got top in tests, you know, in top sets. Well, that's never cool, is it? That sort of thing. So there's always something to sort of that made me a target, quite literally. And I did, like I say, did stand out for all sorts of reasons.
00:06:45
Speaker
So, I mean, not initially, but when I started high school, but later on, I usually ran about probably year 9 when I was 13. I used to run out of lessons or hide completely from lessons, like in the boys' toilets, for instance. And so there was a lot of absence from the age of 13 onwards.
Bulimia as a Coping Mechanism
00:07:05
Speaker
in school. So it was a lot of absence at home and a lot of absence in school for me not being there. So there was quite a lot of, like I say, a lot of chaos and the school was, you know, was not safe for me to be there because of the nature of the bullying. It was physical, it was verbal, it was every type of bullying. So, you know, it was very challenging and enormously difficult to sort of keep on top of my studies and everything else whilst all that was going on.
00:07:34
Speaker
You must have felt completely disempowered in that situation. Well, definitely. I mean, you know, just looking at my grades, how it sort of went from A's and A stars quite literally from year seven, eight, nine, and then towards the end in 10 and 11.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yes, 10, 11, I mean, you know, it was Ds all round, you know, Cs at most. So clearly, and obviously, the bullying had a massive impact. And of course, that, you know, I'll probably explain in a second, but that's the link between how I became a bully and the bullying. There was a direct link there. Yeah, tell me about that.
00:08:11
Speaker
We're going back to hiding from lessons and truancing. What I used to do, I used to hide in the boys' toilets because it was the only place where I knew I wouldn't be likely to be found. So I used to lock myself in a cubicle and just remain there for the duration of the lesson.
00:08:28
Speaker
And in the contents of my lunchbox, you usually have food, you know, all sorts of foods like crisps and sweets and everything else, biscuits, et cetera. So you've just sort of just come for eat initially on the contents of my lunchbox. And then that kind of gave a sense of relief, like you would expect. I think a lot of us relate with that. But over a period of time and quite a short space of time, it sort of came, it sort of evolved really from what you'd say is comfort eating slash binge eating into full blown bulimia.
00:08:57
Speaker
because of the whole sort of anxiety of being in school from the bullying. You know, I used to make it feel quite nauseous anyways. Of course, I was comfort eating, nauseous, and then it kind of made sense just to make myself sick. You know, it wasn't a decision per se. It was just one of these almost sort of intuitive sort of things to do. And of course, whilst doing that, you know, I kind of felt instantly better from that relief that being sick
00:09:25
Speaker
you know, made me feel. So just purely sort of by accident, I became bulimic in that respect. And, you know, I only thought it was something that I only did. You know, I didn't think it, I didn't know it was bulimia. Didn't know anything about it, sort of. And then 20 years ago, when I was at school, we'd have to talk about anorexia, like bulimia. So it was a totally different time period. And of course, being a man, there was an extra layer of stigma on top of it, I guess.
00:09:48
Speaker
well and difficult to to actually come out and say I'm doing this and it doesn't feel right or did it but did it feel right at the time did it feel like something you wanted to continue it did it did feel because it actually it was a coping mechanism first and foremost to deal with all the the you know the all the different issues the anxiety the stress and
00:10:10
Speaker
And keeping in mind, I was 13, so at a very critical age where all hormones were kicking in and puberty, I started puberty at a very early age. So by that point, there's all sorts of things going on for any teenager anyway, but the body on top of that and then any disorder.
00:10:26
Speaker
as a means to cope was enormous for me and of course the very nature of bulimia is very secretive and very hidden so it kind of makes sense really looking back knowing what I know now looking back because you know for a lot of people who are bulimic it is very hidden very secretive because you know they don't want people to know they will cover their tracks and the interesting thing about bulimia it's not necessarily to do with body image or shape or size or any of those things
00:10:53
Speaker
in terms of what you might typically expect or think of in regards to eating disorders, thinking it's all to do with body image. In my case it wasn't that tall, it was just a way in a means to cope. Right, so I'm probably going to sound completely dim here but I just want to ask, I mean I know obviously the physical difference between bulimia and anorexia and I know there's other eating disorders as well.
00:11:16
Speaker
But those two as being the ones that people generally know about hear about what is so with anorexia I'm thinking it is it is a control mechanism I know that but it starts as a I can control what I eat and I lose weight and I want to lose weight is anorexia always because
00:11:38
Speaker
It's interesting because I think it's very complex and very unique to every individual but there are certain common themes that most people identify with. And the interesting thing with anorexia, you say control and that's a word that often people think of and it's a sense of control really. It's not about actually being in control.
00:11:57
Speaker
And, you know, for instance, some people say that food was the only way that they could control all sorts of different things that were outside of their, you know, being able to control. So, like bodying, for instance, or...
00:12:10
Speaker
you know, peer pressure and all those different things that come up for any teenager. So there's a definite aspect of that but with bulimic, you know, the interesting thing isn't necessarily anything just your weight, shape or size or body image just in general. It's more, you know, a lot for instance, a lot of people who are bulimic
00:12:28
Speaker
maybe overweight, but there might be underweight. There's no sort of stereotype in
The Secrecy of Eating Disorders
00:12:33
Speaker
that sense. Of course, people with anorexia, generally speaking, will lose weight, but might not necessarily look anorexic until it's very, there's a beer end of anorexia over a long period of time, if you see what I mean.
00:12:45
Speaker
So we can't really sort of use weight or BMI as a measure, if you like, of severity because actually it's not really, doesn't really say what's going on emotionally and psychologically for that person. It's just an indicator in that sense.
00:13:02
Speaker
Okay, so do you remember the first time that you made yourself sick? No, I really don't. There's a lot of things I don't remember from that time because you know I guess because of the trauma that I was going through it kind of makes sense you know it's all blurs you know my memory now and a lot has happened since so like I say it was 20 years ago but I remember the first few sort of occasions definitely and I think in many ways the only thing I can really remember is the relief
00:13:30
Speaker
a cathartic sort of feeling from the binging and purging and sort of just the whole stressing anxiety that came with it. You know, it's constantly just, you know, being, you know, rabbit in headlights, sort of snoring all the time, sort of worrying about where the police might be next in the corridor, on the yard. At the end of school, what I used to try and get out first, you know, just as that alarm bell, just to avoid, you know, bugging to anybody on the way out. So it was constantly sort of just being on red alert, really.
00:13:58
Speaker
So I probably remember the impact of the bullying more than the actual bulimia itself in many ways because, you know, it was just, like I say, it just took the edge off of all of that in many ways and just helped me get through it for all the wrong reasons. But of course, you know, it was a very damaging, a very destructive behaviour that obviously over a period of time become more problematic.
00:14:19
Speaker
Put me in the seat of a parent, of a child who is struggling with something like this or who is struggling specifically with bulimia and try and make me understand because I'm listening to you but I'm struggling to understand
00:14:39
Speaker
I'm struggling to relate, which I guess must happen for a lot of parents and a lot of people who've never dealt with it. I totally get the stress, the fear, the worry, the not wanting to be there and the comfort eating. I think most people can relate to that. I think a lot of us comfort eat at times of stress. I do to an extent understand comfort eating to the point of feeling sick.
00:15:08
Speaker
but I'm struggling to understand what makes you, not maybe the first time, but continue to make yourself sick. And this is by no means judgment. This is, I'm trying to understand as a parent, trying to make, because a lot of my listeners are parents and I really want them to understand what this is about.
00:15:32
Speaker
I mean it's quite interesting I think because with bulimia more specifically a lot of the signs are very subtle so they're not necessarily signs that you would immediately think all that screams an eating disorder necessarily. You know it could be thinking I'm just trying to think for instance for my mother she would notice food stuff sort of be missing and we're going through a lot of things quite quickly.
00:15:54
Speaker
you know, surgery without your stoves, but you'd probably think, oh, just a hungry teenager going through puberty, what do you expect? So a lot of these, you know, sort of signs would go amiss for that reason. And that's the interesting thing with bulimia more specifically, not to make parents paranoid, but you know, the signs aren't necessarily blatantly obvious at all. With anorexia, it could be obvious eventually, because it would be, you know, issues at the food table sort of messing around with food, making it look as if they're eating, but not actually eating.
00:16:23
Speaker
Obviously, the weight loss, you know, a lot of other signs that, you know, including not being withdrawn, quite isolated, you know, very sort of obsessive compulsive in other ways, not just in terms of food, but in terms of exercise, for instance, that's a very big one that often will come up.
00:16:42
Speaker
So, in many ways anorexia, there's lots of lights, if you like, that scream and shout, this could be an eating disorder going on. But with bulimia, not so much the case. And, you know, there's always this idea that bulimia is somehow less serious than anorexia, but not the case at all. It's just as serious. And, of course, for some people, they could have elements of bulimia as well as anorexia. So, for that reason, eating disorders are not necessarily a clear cut, they're not black and white, you know, and could be argued as a spectrum, if you like.
00:17:13
Speaker
In that sense. Yeah, so there's a lot of crossover and like I said already I think that is very individual and
00:17:20
Speaker
and very unique to each and every person. Yeah of course. So Sam can you just explain to us at what point did you realise that this wasn't just a thing you did to steer clear of bullying it was actually a bigger problem than it was a problem in its own right or did you not while you were at school?
00:17:43
Speaker
Well, it's quite interesting because this is part of the story that I think everyone is always very surprised by. I mean, first of all, you know, I thought it was something that I had invented. So I didn't realize that anybody else was doing anything like this. And I said before, you know, I didn't never heard of bulimia, any disorders, any of it. So it was not on my radar at all whatsoever, given the age that I was, of course.
00:18:03
Speaker
kind of had the same idea, it's like when you have a stomach bug, you know, when you're sick, you know, you feel better, you know, the same sort of mentality, really, it's getting rid of something. Yeah. But how I came to learn that I had to believe it was actually through an agony art column in one of my mum's magazines, believe it or not.
00:18:21
Speaker
And actually I remember it quite clearly because it was actually a mother who had recently split from her partner. She used to put the kids to bed at a certain time and after then she would binge and purge. And of course I didn't relate with her situation but I certainly related with the behaviours in the letter that she described it which is obviously remarkably similar to what I was doing.
00:18:43
Speaker
And the response even from the agony aunt would be, you know, all these, just list really of all these different things. If you don't get help now, you know, you can have cardiac arrest and stomach rupture and all these scary things that was all a bit just that scary really. And that's how I came to learn, believe it or not. And I think I was 15. So I was at the age where I was probably just about old enough to sort of realize this is something very serious, but not old enough to necessarily do anything about it. So what did you do?
00:19:13
Speaker
nothing, if anything, what that did, it gave me permission to do more of it really and it became more frequent, more violent almost. It was almost like a weapon in which I could use to self-harm with because I knew it was doing me harm and of course that was compounded by the feeling that the bullies had
00:19:32
Speaker
you know the impact from the bullying if that makes sense so it just kind of made that whole sort of cycle of binging and purging even worse because i knew it was causing me harm so and of course i felt that i deserved it for that reason so you you were feeling somehow to blame for the
00:19:48
Speaker
bullying and what's happening to you? Yeah, I mean, you do. I mean, at that age, you can't make any sense of any of it. It makes sense of any of it, really. So it was just, like I say, you know, the bullying had got so bad and I'd given up with my studies completely and, you know, I was trying to
00:20:05
Speaker
avoid school entirely. So, do you know what I mean? It was just, like I say, I can't stress enough, it was a coping mechanism to get me through all of that. So it was, you know, it's only two, and I was going to say actually that, you know, I actually attempted to get help, believe it or not, when I was 16, just a couple of days after the last school day.
Seeking Help and Support
00:20:22
Speaker
And this was on a turtle whim. I actually went to the doctor, it was a locum. Obviously my mother, my stepdad knew nothing quite literally about the bulimia. It was not a conversation that would ever come up. We didn't really talk about most things, let alone this. And I spoke to the doctor and I remember, I'll never forget, I think it was in there for up to an hour. And I think it was very unusual for a doctor to see a 16 year old without a parent.
00:20:49
Speaker
I was referred to CAMs and had an emergency assessment and everything else and you know whatever happened after that goodness knows because it all kind of went over my head and certain conversations I've had with my mother don't know exactly what was said.
00:21:04
Speaker
my relationship with my mother deteriorated quite rapidly after 16 anyway and so kind of one thing led to another and basically I left home when I was 16 to move into a supportive living type skin. So 20 years ago eating disorders were not something that doctors knew how to deal with, is that what you're saying? No, especially if you're a man or a boy, you know, considering the age that I was, you know, especially I think this was probably very unusual and I think there was more concern about
00:21:34
Speaker
you know, the bullying and...
00:21:36
Speaker
Perhaps the home life and the way, what were the parents doing? The billion dollar question, where were they in all of this? But of course they were completely unaware and it was nothing, no fault to them. But it was just one of those things really. I thought it was doing the right thing at 16, probably was doing the right thing really. And it did sort of lead to things to happen, but perhaps not the things you would expect to happen. Like being offered to move into a supported accommodation scheme, which probably was, set me on the right path
00:22:06
Speaker
Yeah, it would have been quite an extreme intervention in their view in those days. Yeah, and it's a bit sideways if you don't, you know what I mean? It's kind of like we'll try to deal with it, but without doing anything specific about it, you know what I mean? It's sort of... We're kind of not almost acknowledging that it is as serious as it is, I suppose, in those days. Yeah, and it's good to know what the services, you know, like social services in particular, what their rationale was for it then, you know, sort of a bit of a mystery to me.
00:22:34
Speaker
it's just you know I think in eventually you know obviously things did get better but it was very roundabout way of getting there I think. So how did you eventually access support and recover
Rebuilding Life and Finding Belonging
00:22:50
Speaker
Well, I've always said it's kind of like a series of suddenties. I was writing about this recently for the book that I'm writing, and I was kind of thinking, how did I actually recover? And I don't think it was one thing or another. It was just kind of a bunch of things that just happened just the way that they did at the time that they did. But to give you an example, I did contact my dad for the first time when I was 17. And of course, there was no contact at all.
00:23:12
Speaker
with him, or very limited content, I should say, up until the age of 17. So that was a massive thing. And it did mean that I came to visit him because I was living near Liverpool then, came down to Brighton to visit him. And of course, that's the beginning of our relationship and all those years lost and everything else. So, you know, that was a massive one that sort of helped enormously. But also getting involved in different projects, you know, I was involved because, you know, I did, when I was 16, realise that I probably was gay after all the bullying.
00:23:42
Speaker
that I had in relation to my sexuality, but of course I had to make that realisation myself. So I got very involved in different LGB projects, weren't thinking of the tea then. So I got involved in writing, for instance, I had a column in a magazine when I was 18, which very unusual. So I was kind of just doing all sorts of different things really, that just gave me some sort of sense of worth, you know, purpose, you know. I didn't go to college or university because that
00:24:13
Speaker
So I just only got involved in volunteering, you know, from 18 and eventually set up a charity when I was 22. So just to just follow me in by a series of Sundays, one thing led to another and just the way things worked out is that, you know, eventually the bulimia sort of almost became redundant, really. Because, you know, there were very specific reasons why that was, for instance, when I moved in with my dad, for instance, it was totally impractical to be bulimic when you're living with other people to some extent aware.
00:24:32
Speaker
was never meant to be.
00:24:43
Speaker
Do you see what I mean? It makes total sense to me because it feels like everything in your life was difficult and not something you were able to cope with at a young age.
00:24:58
Speaker
And then you got older and with that came relationships and places where you fitted in and so then you felt better and you've gone from a place where you didn't fit in.
00:25:13
Speaker
taken myself one situation and one place entirely and just put myself in a completely different place. Yeah but equally I think a lot of people find that when they leave school and move into something different that's when they find their people and the place that they fit and then it gets easier to not it's not a magic recovery but it's easier then to deal with the thing that you're absolutely struggling through.
00:25:38
Speaker
And I met people that were like, me not just in terms of just being gay or anything, but you know, just people that were kind of oddballs really, you know? You're the ones that didn't really fit in for society. Don't you find the way you all are? I think we all are oddballs. Well, I realise that now, but back then. No, you don't. As a kid, you just want to fit in, don't you? It's really, really tough.
00:25:57
Speaker
Well, weirdly, I didn't want to fit in, but, you know, I found myself, if I was going to fit in with any type of group as it were, it would be other people that didn't really fit in either for any number of different reasons. So, in those days, you know, kind of the goth kids, for instance, I'd hang around with them at school. I'm definitely just intolerant. Iron maiden and manorim man.
00:26:16
Speaker
and then Eminem and artists that are big at the time. So it was kind of a bit of that, but I kind of, in a weird sort of way, I had a very young age, sort of a sense of my identity, just not being able to express my identity in those sort of environments really, which I was able to do really from 16 onwards. Do you know what I mean? Well, then it takes time to figure out who you are and that's all going on while you're in that melting pot of... I'm still doing that now. I'm still trying. Yeah, so am I.
00:26:43
Speaker
But, you know, I think it was a series of sudden things just, you know, it was just very fortunate in many ways. They sound a bit of a cop out when I say series of sudden things, but, you know, it was kind of exactly that. You know, just one thing led to another and just things just changed and evolved in the way that they did. Yeah, of course. And I guess this is a really tough question to answer in that case. But if you could go back to that
00:27:09
Speaker
13, 14, 15 year old boy, maybe 15 once he realised that what he was doing was problematic. What would you like to be able to say to him?
00:27:25
Speaker
I don't really know specifically, but probably the first thing that really sort of comes to mind is you're not the only one in this situation, in this boat, in that respect, you know, with the bulimia, I think that would be the first thing. Because that feeling of isolation and secrecy is what really sort of drives any eating disorder, bulimia, anorexia, etc. So I think there's an element of
00:27:48
Speaker
that you know that things will get better as wishy-washy as that might sound but they will and just to really kind of to stick to my guns i guess because that was one thing that you know i do sort of look back and kind of respect myself or was the fact that you know i did try to sort of deal with the bullies maybe not in the in the best possible way but you know what i mean i think you know i kind of
00:28:14
Speaker
you know, by walking out of lessons, for instance, you know, that was my way of saying, well, I don't want to be in this unsafe situation if the teacher's not able to sort of manage it. So I think sort of that as well. And I think, you know, it's quite funny when I talk to school friends now, I think there's always, oh, Sam always stood up for himself, you know, always hear this sort of, you know, feedback all these years on. So I guess in some ways, you know, just hold on in there and just sort of
00:28:41
Speaker
don't feel as though you've got to mould yourself to fit in with a certain ideal of what is expected and accepted and the rest of it, I guess.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's probably quite hard for people. It's sometimes maybe easier to change yourself to be more like the people that might then accept you, but it probably doesn't work and sets you up for problems further down the line anyway. I mean, in those days, it was a very two-dimensional way of thinking about absolutely everything, I think. So, do you know what I mean? In those days, it was just like, you know, it feels like ancient times now, present-time things have moved on, hopefully. But, you know, I think, like I say, just to kind of, just all those things
00:29:23
Speaker
I don't feel as though you've got to sort of mould yourself into anyone else other than yourself, I guess, and just be yourself. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And if you, so now we are in the current day with all the interventions that are possible now and the awareness of it and a better acceptance of individuals.
Resources and Awareness for Eating Disorders
00:29:45
Speaker
What would you say to a young person who is dealing with this now, who's maybe just a little way into it? Well, the great thing is nowadays, I mean, there are services around, you know, like Beat, for instance, who are the nationally sort of charity. I mean, they do run groups very specifically for young people online. They've got so many different groups, they can't keep up with
00:30:12
Speaker
but they have a group for everyone, basically, I think it's safe to say. So there's definitely more support that wasn't available back in the day that I was suffering, because the internet was seen as a privilege in those days, you know, people at the internet. So of course we have moved on in that respect. And there's help lines as well, like telephone help lines. And so there's quite a number of different things that are instantly available to anybody. So I think that is definitely a bonus if you're going through this in today's times.
00:30:42
Speaker
And also, I think, you know, there's probably a lot more, I don't know exactly, you know, because I haven't worked in schools for a long time, but there's probably sort of a go-to person, I guess, you know, for these sorts of issues, perhaps in schools. So I think it's good to, you know, to, you know, identify who that person is and ideally sort of make best use, really, of the services that are available directly to you.
00:31:03
Speaker
in that aspect. And if things do get quite bad, you know, obviously there is cams, if appropriate, necessary, you know, can offer sort of treatment sort of services. Yeah. So, you know, and I think also just, you know, it was kind of, I was just thinking actually as well, just sort of YouTube and there's so many different videos that you can watch and there's lots of videos out there that could potentially be quite dangerous and very triggering. Well, that's the problem, isn't it? You have to be a little bit careful there. But, you know,
00:31:32
Speaker
do you know what I mean? They can be very helpful to identify things that you might be going through that other people are going through so you don't feel as if you're the only one and you know if someone's a bit further on down that line in terms of the support that they're getting in terms of their recovery and you know you might sort of get some ideas of how to sort of develop sort of more healthier sort of more positive coping strategies. It's all very individual so I think that's why experiences are very important.
00:31:59
Speaker
inspirational stories of people who've got through it. Yeah, just trying to think, you know, just story, kind of, you know, people that might not necessarily have overcome it, but sort of in the process, you know, a little bit further down the line. Yeah, and they're coping, working through. Yeah, definitely. That's so good. Thank you.
00:32:15
Speaker
and you you were talking to me before we started recording about how you campaign your campaign was called men get eating disorders too is that right because that must it's actually and even the stereotype in my head says that eating disorders are a girl's thing which is stupid but it's what we've grown up with
00:32:38
Speaker
I mean, I should have said as well, when I was 18, I attempted to get help for a second time, specifically for the Bremia. And of course, by then, I'd educated myself, I'd looked up articles online.
00:32:50
Speaker
And of course, all the information that you had available was all geared towards women, young women in particular. Side zero has been very sort of, it was just predominantly in the press every single day, sort of free of firm, the stereotype that it's all about anorexia and catwalk models and, you know, young women to aspiring to be supermodels. Yes. And selective culture and the rest of it, you know what, and of course, I didn't relate with any of that at all whatsoever. So of course, you know, that's how I came to do the complaining work that I did.
00:33:18
Speaker
And of course, you know, just as I say, it's about talking about experiences and just as I've done now, but also many other people because of course, you know, eating disorders is a very sort of complex issue. And of course, no one person will experience eating disorder the same as the next. Yeah. And of course, there's lots of different types of eating disorders. So it's a very sort of, I have to say, very complex and quite diverse. So it
00:33:40
Speaker
really just sort of as a platform for which men can get their voices heard really. Yeah and you were saying that quite a lot of people have kind of taken it and run with it and that's and it's now well talked about online that this is a problem. Well yeah times have changed which is a go to that I mean at the time you know it was kind of considered when I started my campaign which must be about 12 years ago now I mean it was considered quite sort of
00:34:02
Speaker
revolutionary and groundbreaking in that sense. But it wasn't really, it was just because no one else was doing it, no one else was talking about it. But of course, times have moved on and there's lots of people talking about it now. It's obviously helpful with the internet, with blogs and podcasts and all sorts of things. Anybody can talk about anything. In some ways, that's why I don't have to do it quite so much now because there is a real movement to talk about all these different issues. I've got a lot more opening and hopefully with a view for encouraging people to get that support.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah that's so good. Sam, would you mind sending me some of the links to some of the places that you mentioned that I'll put them in the episode notes so that if people do want to go and find out more information or find support for themselves they can do easily. So where can people find you if they'd like to read more of your stuff or be in touch?
00:34:57
Speaker
Well, at the moment, I think probably Twitter is the main one. I haven't got a website at the moment. It's something I'm thinking about. I'm also writing a book as well. So there's quite a few things on the way. But yeah, Twitter is probably the best way. It's Sam underscore Thomas 86, I think. Yeah, I'll find it and I'll stick it in the notes of the podcast. So yeah, so there's a link to it. Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess you'll you'll tell the world about your book when it's ready on there.
00:35:26
Speaker
yeah it's a bit premature just yet so well good luck with it and thank you so much for chatting to us today okay thank you i want to do a big oof here because that was such a powerful chat wasn't it
Reflection on Recovery and Self-Worth
00:35:43
Speaker
The thing that really stood out for me was when Sam talked about how having a sense of worth and purpose really helped him begin the process of recovery. I'm actually wondering if that's something that parents could work on with their kids whenever things are going off track for them, whatever their problems might be. If you're worried about a child or a young person who you think might be wrestling with an eating disorder, there are places you can go for help.
00:36:10
Speaker
Teenagers themselves can access help via their GP or by contacting BEAT, the UK's eating disorder charity. They have a confidential helpline. I'll put the links in the episode notes.
00:36:24
Speaker
There are loads more episodes of the Teenage Kicks podcast. Do have a browse and see if I've covered anything else you might find useful. And if you have a suggestion of something you'd like to see talked about on the podcast, please do email me on teenagekickspodcast.com
00:36:43
Speaker
I have loads more fabulous guests coming up to help families navigate some of the most complicated but wonderful years of parenting. I've also got posts on the blog that might help parents with other teenage parenting dilemmas, so do pop over to Actually Mommy if you fancy a read. Again, I'll stick the link in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening.
00:37:07
Speaker
If you like the podcast, please hit the subscribe button now and come back next week for another amazing guest who will be sharing their story to help young people who might be going through the same as them. Bye for now.