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Ep. 103: The teenagers choosing not to drink alcohol
126 Plays10 days ago
Today's guest is content creator and copywriter Tom Pinks, who is The number of teenagers saying they don't drink alcohol is 39%.
Tom talks about how he was bullied at secondary school before eventually finding a way to take control and stand up for himself. He was also dealing with his mum's diagnosis of cancer and says that it could have been quite a dark time had it not been for the resilience that kicked in as he learned to take care of his emotions.
He also talks about feeling shy when he started university - have a listen to Tom's top tip for making friends in a new environment! Tom says this is when he started using alcohol to hide his shyness and pretend to be more extroverted than he was. Whilst he says it didn't feel like a problem in the moment, he struggled to keep up with the drinking of Freshers and eventually realised it was too much.
Tom told me how he eventually cut down on drinking and became isolated as he distanced himself from friends who were drinkers. He was diagnosed with depression and anxiety and had to take time out to address it. He tells us how difficult that experience was, and what help is available now to young people going through similar, from free counselling to support of communities online.
Tom's experience of being sober since then is fascinating to listen to - from being fully alive at the music gigs he loved, to the experience of dating without alcohol.
Who is Tom Pinks?
Tom is a mental health professional, writer and podcaster for The Mix, the UK's leading digital support service for under 25's. A former teacher, Tom now spends his time ensuring as many teens have the resources they need to thrive in life. Whether this be written guides on navigating relationships, identity, and general wellbeing, or podcasts with experts on how to manage and improve mental health.
Tom has been living sober for almost 18 months, and is an advocate for clean living after witnessing the many benefits this brought into other parts of his life. He now practices transcendental meditation daily, and puts his love and energy into hosting events across London designed to help young people make new friends.
Useful links:
- The Highly Sensitive Person (affiliate link)
- The Mix - essential support for under 25s, including free counselling
- Tom's blog about sober dating
More teenage parenting from Helen Wills
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please email helen@actuallymummy.co.uk.
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Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
Episode produced by Michael J Cunningham
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Transcript
A Festival Experience Without Alcohol
00:00:00
Speaker
I've never had such a great experience at a festival until last year. I was like everything was just so vivid. I was so alive. I was so present. I wasn't using those portaloos every five minutes. and we wasn't queuing up at the bar for 15 to 20 minutes just to get a couple of 10-pound strong bows or ciders or whatever. yeah I was there in the music. I was enjoying it. I was more social i was sociable because I wasn't thinking about, oh, I need to fill up my drink or oh I need a drink.
Introduction to Teenage Kicks Podcast
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to Season 9 of the Teenage Kicks Podcast. I'm your host, writer and psychotherapist Helen Wills. Can you believe it? When I started this podcast, there was nothing much on mind for parents about teenage mental health. Still less about how to cope with our own anxieties when our teenagers are going through difficult stuff.
00:00:59
Speaker
Since then, I've spoken to over 100 guests about struggles they had in their teenage years, how they've coped since, and the advice they'd offer to young adults and their parents today. We've talked about all the difficult things, from anxiety, to being diagnosed with an illness, or getting kicked out of school. Spoiler alert, it all involves a bit of anxiety. And many of my guests have told me the conversations have felt like therapy.
00:01:30
Speaker
It's what led me to think about training as a therapist and I'm happy to say that I'm now a fully qualified counsellor.
Counselling for Parents of Teenagers
00:01:37
Speaker
I help my clients with anxiety and depression, lost grief and bereavement, clinical illness, trauma and relationship issues and especially parents who are finding the teenage years tricky.
00:01:52
Speaker
If you think counselling might help you, you can find me at HelenWills.com. That's Helen Wills W I double L S dot com. I offer a free initial conversation to see if we're a good fit.
Upcoming Series Topics
00:02:07
Speaker
Now, on to Series 9, and I have some fantastic guests for you. We're going to talk about what it's like to grow up with a disabled sibling, the teenagers who are embracing a sober adolescent, how to support a child who's questioning their gender or sexuality, and teens who are people pleasers.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yes, they might be ball breakers at home, but lots of teens feel under pressure to perform for other people. And they need our help to help them stop. Says one of my guests.
00:02:41
Speaker
My guest today is Tom Pinks.
Meet Tom Pinks & The Sober Movement
00:02:43
Speaker
Tom is a content designer and a fellow copywriter and mental health advocate. I came across Tom because I subscribe to News from the Mix, an organisation that provides online mental health support for teenagers and young adults.
00:02:59
Speaker
What drew me in past the email newsletter bit was Tom's article on sober dating, not words I'd heard put together before. The sober movement has gained momentum in recent years and the number of teenagers saying they don't drink alcohol has also increased. With a recent U-Goth study, including the number of 18-24 year olds in the UK who say they don't drink at all at 39%,
00:03:27
Speaker
I need to tell my own kids something about that. I wanted to ask Tom about his experience with alcohol and why dating sober is important to him. Tom, welcome to the podcast.
00:03:41
Speaker
Oh, hello. Lovely to be here, Helen. How are you? yeah Yeah, I'm good. We were just having a conversation
Mental Health's Impact on Life
00:03:46
Speaker
about the mix. It's so it's an organisation that I've followed online ever since I started the podcast because it it's not just mental health, is it? I had a little look today and there's an article up there about budgeting for university, which is very timely. My daughter's just gone back and is forever moaning about not having enough money. So it's pretty practical as well as mental health, isn't it?
00:04:05
Speaker
Absolutely. Can I ask, is your daughter using the budget tips that we wrote? Well, I will send them to her. I don't suppose it will prevent her from moaning that she doesn't have enough money. Yeah, um we do our best. um Yeah, absolutely. Well, I believe that everything, every aspect of our lives always comes back to that core, which is mental health. So the mix, see it that way too. So if you're having a relationship issue, family issues, drugs, alcohol, ah making friends, loneliness, you name it, whatever affects anyone under 25 or teenagers primarily.
00:04:41
Speaker
um I think it always comes back to mental health. So there's that underlying theme for everything that we do at The Mix. Yeah, you're right, actually, because if you're struggling financially at uni, then that's going to impact how you feel emotionally and everything does. You're absolutely right. I'm sorely tempted to go down a line of let's talk about mental health at university, because this could get really interesting, but that's not what we're here for.
00:05:07
Speaker
um Let's get on to the alcohol, but um first of all, i I want to ask you, Tom, if you can tell us a little bit about your own teenage years and what life was like growing up for you.
Challenges of Teenage Years
00:05:19
Speaker
So firstly I think that I've never been asked that question before so when you sent over the information before this this interview it really got me thinking because i'm I'm just always I'm trying to live in the moment or I'm always guilty of looking into the future and seeing what's next what's coming up and you know that has its drawbacks too but I never quite look at my upbringing and on my teenage years um until now. So I had a big think about it. And I'm going to say it's probably not good for the podcast. It wasn't very remarkable. that's all good um I felt that I was very shy. um I was still trying to figure out what this thing called the world was and what that meant to me and how I played a part in it. um I kept myself to myself during my school years, especially in secondary school.
00:06:11
Speaker
um I'm not afraid to say but I was actually bullied quite a lot during secondary school right um and didn't really know how to handle all that i'm until maybe like year 10 year 11 that I thought actually no I'm gonna I'm gonna sort of take back control I'm gonna turn this around and finally managed to to make a great group of friends, so ended the school years on a high. But yeah, it was a bit of a rollercoaster. And um again, you know, it's it's not your... um it was a brilliant It was a brilliant time to be alive, that coming of age story. Because running alongside that, my my mum actually had um was was dealing with cancer, with breast cancer. So it well there was a lot of hardship. yeah um
00:06:57
Speaker
And then just talking about it now, it makes me wonder why ah potentially I didn't talk or haven't been thinking about my teenage years because because it was quite a relatively dark time. um yeah So yeah, it was a lot of struggle, um but I feel like it it helped me grow as a person, became more resilient, um as I said, quite ah quite shy, um very timid.
00:07:20
Speaker
um but but But going through these different experiences helped me come out of my shell a little bit. Although I was still very shy going into university and it wasn't until sort of after university and that I sort of started to open up a bit now. Yeah. Right. that's I mean, I've literally just written down seven or eight different podcast episodes that we could record together on the basis of what you just said.
00:07:45
Speaker
i So um yeah, going into university shy, I'm in um a Facebook group for parents of university students, you might have heard of it's called what I wish I knew about university, thousands and thousands of people in there. um And that's the topic of conversation at the moment is because so many kids have just gone or are just about to go to university's parents panicking because their kids are not going in hell-bent on partying and confident about getting to know their housemates.
University Social Life & Anxiety
00:08:18
Speaker
I mean, ah it's a bit of a sidetrack, but how did you handle that as a shy person? It was tough. It was really tough. I remember my first day at university and my mum gave me a 24-pack of Jaffa Cakes and ah and ah um a multi-pack of penguin bars and said, like, you can use these to make friends. Brilliant, yes. And it worked. It worked. It did. Yeah. So I got I think it was the irony of it or it was just like novelty. It was just like, OK, this is this is a different way of making friends. Kind of like it. It's original. Let's get to know this guy. ah But yeah, it's just um ah opened up ah ah some blossoming friendships with my housemates. Obviously, I only had 24 Jaffa cakes, so I could only make 24 friends.
00:09:04
Speaker
um But I did help my confidence and I thought well if I can talk to these people I can hopefully open up and talk to other people. ah go At the same time though it was almost like I was living two different lives because that's shyness and um that lack of self-esteem was still there. um So each day I was in constant battle with myself, like, I want to make friends, I want to get to know more people, I want to know their stories, you but then at the same time, oh, what if they don't like me? Or what what would they think about me? Or I'm boring, I don't have anything to say. oh um So yeah, um so I would say, don't listen to that self, buy Jaffa Cakes, make friends.
00:09:51
Speaker
So a little bit of fake it till you make it, ah because ah there's that whole... um Or cake it, cake it till you make it. Cake it till you make it. Oh my God, that's a new title for this episode. that's um It's just reminding me, those ah it was clearly original about them, but they've copied you. Is it the the chocolate digestives people? There was an ad a few years ago that used to make me tear up about a child going to university and and separating and the mum wanting to make the bed for them and then hugs and tears before they parted.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then she unpacked her suitcase and
Sending a Child to University
00:10:26
Speaker
she'd got a packet of, but if i mean I think it was chocolate digestives. And then she went and shared them with all their flatmates. Yeah, God, I've got a lot of food by throat, just thinking about it.
00:10:37
Speaker
I need to need to scope out that advert. Well, I've just re-sent my daughter back for her second year at university, so um it it doesn't get does it does get a little bit easier because you know what to expect, but each time it it's another little bit of overwhelm. For all the parents of the university kids, I feel you at this time of the year.
00:10:57
Speaker
And how has your daughter found it? Are they quite sociable? She's so sociable. she I mean, she was her first day in freshers was like, um can you go now? And then we barely heard from her. she's She's fine. But my youngest is more introverted. I'm reading a book at the moment, it's called The Highly Sensitive Person, which really speaks to me about, and it's it's making me think about what you just said about your your more your shy side worrying about what people think of you and maybe not wanting to go partying and you're your how pragmatic side, let's call it, telling you that you had to, you had to force yourself. and The balance between those two parts of ah of a person who doesn't find who isn't an extrovert naturally, that is a mental health challenge in its own
Social Pressure & Alcohol
00:11:50
Speaker
right, isn't it? How much do you cater for the person who is
00:11:54
Speaker
who does find it really difficult to put themselves out there. And how much do you tell that person to get back in his box and push yourself? It's a real dilemma, for I think, for a lot of kids or a lot of people. I still have it.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, it's exhausting. It really is yeah exhausting. um And, you know, I feel like that's as a nice segue into talking about being sober and sober dating, which requires a lot of confidence because during university, yeah you know, as you said, trying to shut that part of me down and just say, no, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm going to try and make friends. I'm going to go out and enjoy and live life to the fullest. He's using alcohol as a way to quieten that Right. That's what I want to know about being bullied and having stress at home. That's a lot to deal with. And um yeah, you said it was quite dark. That's the time when a lot of teenagers, when their friends are experimenting, might start to turn to alcohol and and use it as a way to numb and dampen down those emotions. When did it start for
Alcohol's Impact on Mental Health
00:12:57
Speaker
you? p um I reckon around
00:13:02
Speaker
Around the the last year of school, you um as you said, it was that experimental phase. um We found ways to to get alcohol from different shady news agents and exploited fats. Older brothers and sisters are usually handy. And I guess the amount of times I diluted the bottle of gin in my mum's cupboard. It was pro yeah practically water by by the end of ah the the six months we were using this. So yeah, I wouldn't say like it was a it was a problem. um We just enjoy doing it. we enjoy I think at the time I didn't feel like it was a problem.
00:13:47
Speaker
looking back now perhaps I was using it to just forget about the the really crappy stuff that was going on really rubbish stuff like obviously my mom's health and and the fact that I had a few rough years at school and I'd found friends I found some really good friends and they all loved to drink as well so it just made sense it was um yeah it was a yeah it all came together normal Yeah, exactly. um I think when it got to university, that's when it it was getting a little bit too intense. I was really struggling to keep up with freshers in particular. That set the bar high yeah with drinking and and the and the amount of consumption involved. really done um It was pre-drinks would last like four hours and it was pre-drinks.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, that was not a thing in my time. We just went to the bar or the pub, but I was a shock to my system that Preeze is the main event. Yeah, it it really is, and it it we we used to go hard. I don't know if I just fell into a ah house which was really big on pre-drinks, but there was always a fishbowl involved, and that fishbowl always contained at least eight different drinks, and then some some things also that you probably shouldn't be drinking after, but we won't go into that. um But yeah, it was non-stop, and
00:15:12
Speaker
Perhaps maybe I had some demons in me or I had some conflicts in me, but I hadn't fully resolved yet and was just bubbling inside me. Obviously, you know, going through that tough period in my teenage years, perhaps maybe I was choosing drinking, nonstop drinking, rather than just having a clear head once in a while and actually thinking about, okay, why am I drinking this much? what What's going on inside me? um But you just get carried away at university.
00:15:37
Speaker
Oh, completely. And you're 19. Your brain's not fully formed at that point, and you're not you're not in a place to think, OK, has this got anything to do with what happened to me four years ago?
00:15:50
Speaker
yeah good absolutely Yeah, absolutely. um And so Thresh just came and went, yet the drinking continued. And I think it was just sort of like, I guess living in that environment that people I lived with would go out four or five times a week. and And we all have our different tolerance levels as well. Some people can do that and still make it to lectures and go out and buy groceries and live a normal life. I'm not one of those people, but I felt like I needed to train myself yeah to do that, to almost fit in. i'm not I'm not ashamed to say that. I thought this is exactly. um Whereas deep down, i I knew I was struggling with drinking too much. I just didn't want to want to say anything.
00:16:35
Speaker
um And I think yeah, definitely the the first year of university is very, very hazy for me. um Yeah, I can't really remember much of it. All I know that I was a little bit grumpy because of always being hungover. The second year it came around, I was just like, well, actually, you know, I'm studying something that I'm so passionate about and I feel like the drink is getting in the way of this. So let's just try and tone down on the drink and then focus more on the on the subject and what I want to do. I was doing film and I love film.
00:17:08
Speaker
I love just every that the whole process, every aspect of it. right and And then to be a director, you need your head on your shoulders yeah and you need to be able to work with people and direct people. And um it's ah it's ah a lifestyle, it's not just a job, you have to go and scope out, especially if you're a student filmmaker, scope out locations.
00:17:29
Speaker
um create relationships with actors you want in your films. but Have that creative mind to write a good story that you hope people are going to want to engage in. These all take different parts of your brain and when you're drinking or or doing whatever, which whatever you do that sort of dulls that brain, you don't feel like you're doing your best work and therefore that's affecting your mental health.
00:17:52
Speaker
So yeah second year came around and I just said to myself, like, right, cut down on the drinking and see what you can do with film, because this is what you've been working towards for a long, long time. And by cutting down the drinking, I realized that my friendship circle was getting smaller and smaller because I wasn't going out so much. And fedass but for the first few weeks, I'd ask if I still wanted to come out. And then they sort of got the hint and they almost felt like it's it's this it's a strange thing. When you say that you're you're not going to be drinking, you're almost sort of like an outcast. And it's just because I think it it it makes people realize, oh, maybe I shouldn't be drinking. Yes, yes, it touches a raw nerve. Yeah, I get it.
00:18:39
Speaker
but and I can't speak for everyone here but I think people people know that deep down but they don't want to admit it so then they project that onto the person who's triggered it yes i me um so I and i noticed that I was slowly um inadvertently distancing myself from from this group of friends. And then that brought a lot of mental health issues as well. I was feeling quite lonely and I was still that shy person. I i felt like I needed to bring it back to the drawing board, make new friends again. um And I'm sure there were a lot of people at my university that
00:19:18
Speaker
didn't drink and i'm sure like in two this was 10 years ago i'm sure nowadays is going to be a lot more people at the time i didn't know where those people were yeah um so i joined a couple of societies they all drank um i tried to get to know other people who was on on the same course as me they were big on drinking it was either drinking or smoking weed it was one or the other um there was no There's no in-between. There wasn't a sober society or anything like that. um No. So, yeah, it was tough. It was tough. And also, I feel like that actually impacted the films I i was making as well, because ah we would make the film and then everyone would say, like, yeah, let's go and celebrate by getting absolutely slaughtered, like, late fat night. Yeah. i'd go out I'd go out for a couple of drinks. I didn't completely stop drinking at university. But but but obviously a couple of drinks and then go home, they'd be out for hours. um And then, you know, it's it's like, you know, when you go to work and if you're a smoker, you get more breaks and you get more chances to meet more people. It was like that. yeah If you're a drinker at university, you get more chances to apparently just make friends and and get to know more people. yeah But by not drinking, I stopped myself from from doing that. And I had an effect on my friendship circle and my my mental health.
00:20:37
Speaker
yeah yeah Were you feeling low? What was it doing to you from a mental health point of view? I guess because I still had this unaddressed trauma in me.
00:20:51
Speaker
um As well as the fact that yeah this friendship circle was dwindling, I was feeling very lonely and I was on my own quite a lot. That lends itself to overthinking. Yes. And then as just a rabbit hole, you just keep falling down. and It got to the point where I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety at
Depression & Anxiety Diagnosis
00:21:13
Speaker
university. I actually had to take time out of university to address this.
00:21:19
Speaker
um I did all that I could at university and but this was 10 years ago and and there was there was nothing available in terms of mental health support at my particular university. I don't want to name the university because I'm sure it's hopefully very different now but there was only one Um, there was only one, um, support service for mental health at university and it was counseling and there was at least a six to eight month waiting list. ah Okay. but If you think about it, that's a whole year. You're only at university for three years. ah Um, so can you really hang on that long? If if you're really feeling it now and you're, you know, life is really tough right now. Um, you can't wait, you can't wait that long.
00:22:03
Speaker
No, and we all know that mental health gets better when you talk about it to somebody, but if all of the people that you were close to were were going out drinking, they weren't going to understand where you were coming from, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. yeah um So yeah, that was a really that was a really tough time for me.
00:22:24
Speaker
on the other side, and i've I've written a blog about this actually, because I'm just to find the words because it's something I never i never really talk about anymore, I only talk about it when it's necessary, but basically, um yeah being diagnosed with depression and anxiety at university, that was You know, about that but um was was really tough to manage. And in order I felt at the time, in order to manage it, let's drink because it makes life a little bit easier. But obviously, you know, it doesn't. no So I had this life where i was you know I went back to university after a short short break.
00:23:09
Speaker
um I had this life where I was drinking to cope with the depression and anxiety. And then I had this other side of my life, but wanted to bring more mental health awareness into the university. yeah um Luckily, i was in ah I was in a good position in that I had access to a a lot of buildings you at the university. So I was the chairman for the film society. And doing that, I had the keys to cinemas in different lecture halls.
00:23:38
Speaker
yeah on campus yeah and also had access to all of the notice boards in the main building. So what I did is put up posters and different messages um across all of these notice boards that were unused and just filled them with um positivity and and mental health awareness. And you know you never know what you know you I never got feedback from that. I never know i never knew what well impact it had. But just knowing it was there and I was bringing, you know hopefully you know sharing how I was feeling, hopefully we'll connect with somebody and they they see that and think, oh, okay, yeah, it's all right. It's not just me. I'm not just on this right journey alone. But then obviously on e but in the evenings, I was drinking just to manage with the with depression and anxiety. And yeah, it was um yeah a really rough period of my life. Yeah, it's a trap, isn't it? Because you you know what you want to do. But doing it makes things feel worse to begin with. And there's a lot of hard work. And I mean, this is the case with all mental health stuff therapy is hard work. But that's the point because you're going, you're going inwards to fix things that take some fixing rather than reaching outwards to squash those things further back down.
00:24:56
Speaker
um So it's hard work and the hard work can leave you feeling depleted. And then on top of that, you were feeling isolated and lonely. And so the urge to fix that quickly with a drink must have been quite overwhelming. So I can understand what alcohol was doing for you in those moments.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's a quick fix, isn't it? It's a it' very temporary fix, but you don't think about the long-term when you're in that sort of situation. You're just thinking about that immediate pain and how do I escape from that right now? yeah And if you've got a corner shop literally on your corner, you're going to use it to your advantage. Yeah.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, really tough. I'm sorry, that should not be a university student's experience. And yet I suspect that there are quite a lot of people going through similar and all those teenagers who are homesick and lonely. are Just just the tip of that iceberg at the moment. Well, you know, I didn't want this podcast to be all doom and gloom. And we're going to move on from that. Oh, what a rubbish episode. It's just go going on and
Working with The Mix for Support
00:26:07
Speaker
on. um But, you know, this is the reason why I work for The Mix, is because I didn't have this available to me when I was going through university and I would have loved it. Obviously The Mix offers free counseling sessions, tons of articles, resources, a huge community full of young people who are going through something similar to what I went through. um So that's just why I'm really proud to to be doing something I love and I know it makes an impact and I also know that
00:26:35
Speaker
So many people at university are going through something similar. They are dealing with social anxiety. They are trying to cut down on their alcohol despite peer pressure. They're finding the studying really hard. They're battling with coping with the studying and using alcohol alcohol to alleviate a stress from that. So, you know, since working for the mix, I know that my story is reminiscent of thousands of people out there. Right.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, right. I'm going to put links to the counselling and the things you've mentioned there at the mix in the show notes for anybody that's got to this point and wants to go check that out. um I totally agree. it's Like I said at the beginning, it's got everything. There's there's always something that that you can begin with if you're struggling and no one needs to be as lonely as perhaps you felt in those days. That's brilliant.
00:27:26
Speaker
um Right, okay, turning it
Transformative Impact of Sobriety
00:27:30
Speaker
around. Tell me, um and actually question, are you are you are you completely sober now or do you still have the odd drink? Completely sober, yeah, I've been sober for almost 18 months now. Okay, so when did dating first make an entrance on your sober scene?
00:27:48
Speaker
that's not Yeah, very good question. um It was a long time after I decided to go sober for many reasons. I just can't stand dating. I mean, that makes sense on the basis that you you don't like putting yourself out there and you're quieter than a lot of people. Do you sense dating's hard work? I just feel like it's just um it's just a it's just a job interview, master's romance.
00:28:16
Speaker
or potential romance, isn't it? um But yeah, it never really crossed my mind. And because I don't think it wasn't a thing, it wasn't a thing of my radar. um' The reason i went I eventually became sober is that, um ah talking to dating, I was with someone at the time when I was drinking. um I found that, you know, 18 months ago, my drinking it was a lot better than it was at university it was under my control but i just didn't like it i didn't like waking up feeling grubby um i'm in my early 30s now and you can feel it you can feel it a lot more than 10 years ago it's a great word to describe how that feels yeah um
00:28:59
Speaker
And I found that it was really affecting my mental health. Even though I had it and under control, it was still there, it was still in the background. And my drinking was attracting the type of people that I didn't want to date, and but I didn't know that at the time. um People that just brought out the worst in me and vice versa. I'm no saint. I was bringing out the worst in them too and it was just a mounting pot. That particular relationship came to a head and it was a big turning point and I thought, okay,
00:29:37
Speaker
this person, I'm making myself feel really, really grubby. And this person who I'm with, I'm attracting that same energy. So it's just amplifying what needs to go. What do I need to do with my life to sort of not make this happen? I want more, I want better energy in my life.
00:29:54
Speaker
yeah then without a shadow of a doubt, it was alcohol. So um the alcohol went as did the girl. And um and i was it was ah it was a new it was a different life. Like one one literally overnight. So one night I had a couple of bottles of wine and and various beers and and this girlfriend. And then the next morning I didn't have any alcohol and no girlfriend.
00:30:22
Speaker
and And then it was literally just like that. Yeah. And I was just like, and I could feel it deep in myself that this was a new chapter. And this was it not only I mean i was about to say I knew me, but I first thought it was deep down. This was me. um it It was just hidden under all of these layers of constant alcohol abuse and constant negative bad people in my life. So.
00:30:47
Speaker
um Yeah, so when I decided to go sober, I thought it was going to be really hard yeah and for many reasons, but particularly, I love a music festival. bias was This was the beginning of summer last year and I had so many festivals lined up and I volunteered there as well and ah part of that is is getting to know people and part of that volunteering is like drinking culture. It's a music festival, isn't it? It's drinking everywhere.
00:31:15
Speaker
I was like, how on earth am I going to do four, five weekends of festivals in a row sober? wow I just don't know how I'm going to do it. So I just took it once, one festival at a time. And amazingly, I loved, I've never had such a great experience at a festival until last year. I was like, everything was just so vivid. I was so alive. I was so present. I wasn't using those Portaloos every five minutes and I wasn't queuing up at the bar for 15 to 20 minutes just to get a couple of 10-pound strong bows or ciders or whatever. yeah I was there in the music. I was enjoying it. I was more social i was sociable, because I wasn't thinking about, oh, I need to fill up my drink, or oh, I need a drink. I was there, like, listening to people. oh yeah I didn't have anything else to think about but the person right in front of me and ah absolutely loved it. And then, in fact, going sober to the festivals, something which I was really dreading,
00:32:15
Speaker
Actually helped me stay sober i can't i can safely say since i went sober i've had probably two maybe three cravings to drink and that was maybe on two occasions that was because I was traveling, I was in Japan and I wanted some sake just to try it. um But apart from that, yeah, I love my life now and it's it's beautiful. And then I guess that brings us on to the sober dating side of things. yeah Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking, I suppose the festivals must have felt like you were replacing some previously perceived as good experiences with
00:32:59
Speaker
another really good experience that didn't involve alcohol and actually the more of those you have, the more it must be doable to to to not drink.
Sober Dating Experience
00:33:11
Speaker
ah future things. ah Sorry I'm stumbling because i'm I'm just thinking through my head. you I wonder if I could really enjoy my book club without a glass of wine. Someone I was talking about our slow starts this morning and mine was because I had a couple of glasses of wine at my book club last night. I'm just thinking ge how much more fun could book club be if I'm not having a drink? You might actually read.
00:33:38
Speaker
Oh, no, I might get intellectual. but i No one wants that. No. and but like There's something in that just replacing experiences so that that your brain has an even your body has a memory of things being great without alcohol there that must make it easier going forward. yes So what was it like the first time you had a date without a drink?
00:34:04
Speaker
Um, quite an eye opener, just off the back of what you said, you know, I had all of these years of conditioning by going on dates, pretty drunk, uh, drinking a lot during the dates. And yeah, I'm not going to lie. I was a little bit nervous. Um, this was about four or five months after I, uh, split up and had that time to decision to go sober. um This girl popped into my WhatsApp. We must have been chatting from a dating app a couple of years ago. She just popped up and said like, um hey, so I just saw you in my contact list just for I'd say hello. And if you fancy we never got
00:34:48
Speaker
to do a date, but if you want to, let me know. I thought, yeah, why not? And then she immediately messaged after that. OK, great. What pub do you want to meet at? I was like, ah, all right. OK. How do I navigate this? I'm very happy being in a pub. ah love pu they um very a backbone society you and um I have no qualms actually being in a pub. But obviously, it's only fair to tell them that I wouldn't be drinking. Yeah. um And you know what, it's absolutely fine if they say, OK, don't worry about it. Let's yeah leave it there. Because I know how people might feel a bit funny. People feel like they do need a drink just to so make the conversation flow. Yeah, they were lovely. And they said, like, you know, what I'm not really a heavy drinker anyway, um so I'm really glad that you said that. Also, it's going to be a really cheap night, so I want to want to do it more than ever. um
00:35:44
Speaker
So yeah, we i mean we met up, it was later that night and um we were just chatting for hours. I think we were chatting nonstop for about four or five hours about everything. And the the big difference between ah this sober date, my first sober date and and all of those drink fueled dates was that we just chatted about the deep stuff, the stuff that both of us really wanted to talk about. It wasn't like, oh, so what do you do? All of that sounds interesting. Which also is, It's a good question, but you know, it's nice to know what people do. But, you know, we were talking about, we were talking about, well, ironically, our experiences at university, like she has had an up and down ah journey through her twenties. And, you know, she, she just felt really confident and comfortable to talk to me about that. Because I think she could tell that I was just really, really present. And I wasn't talking about, oh, what drink you drinking or just going back and forth to the bar. I was like, right. there. My my ears were were listening to every single word that was coming out of her mouth. Whereas when I was drinking, that wouldn't be the case. I think i'd be ah would you know it'd be to I'd have the same amount of nerves going into a date. If I was drinking, I'd just be amplifying those nerves.
00:36:57
Speaker
um On a sober date, you know the nerves are there. You have you have the head in your shoulder zone. and You have the control to not let it control you. Okay, the nerves are there. That's normal. This is a person that you don't know. yeah Potentially, it could be someone really important. yeah That's fine. That's natural. At least, you know, being sober, I could say that to myself.
00:37:21
Speaker
we're drinking, you just sort of like try and run away from those nerves and yeah it just really doesn't help. Well, it's a normal feeling, isn't it, nervousness? It's there to tell us that something is important and maybe a bit challenging, but that, you know, yeah, say like anxiety I've been told that the the the bodily things that are going on in your body when you're anxious, the cortisol, whatever it is, are the same as the things that are going on in your body when you're excited.
Managing Anxiety Through Sobriety
00:37:52
Speaker
So you can reframe anxiety or nervousness to excitement, then that puts a whole different spin on it. But again, I'm going off a tangent, but ah it that all of our feelings are there for a reason. yeah
00:38:06
Speaker
And the book, actually, I'm listening to an audio book by um Alan Carr, not the comedian Alan Carr, but he's he's he's written a book about how to quit smoking and then another on how to quit drinking. And and he's like, a fire alarm has a purpose. Turning it off like you do with nervousness, with alcohol. Is it going to save you from the fire?
00:38:31
Speaker
It prevents you from responding appropriately in the situation. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's a great book. ah Both of them are great books. And yeah, he just it just makes makes it sound so simple, but it is that simple. like We have all these emotions and feelings as signals telling us and informing our minds. And it's all part of the whole human experience, isn't it? So if we we're running away from something that is cemented in truth and is part of us, it's just a recipe for disaster, isn't it?
00:39:05
Speaker
Well, yeah, and the whole the whole point is that you you can survive those emotions and those feelings and you have to get comfortable with them. Whereas we've been conditioned in Western society particularly to run away from them, avoid them, as you said, and tried and that's where the addictions come in. do Just try to shove that aside. It just doesn't work. It just stays there and comes back later.
00:39:31
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what? That's a really good point. And I think by being sober and especially sober dating, it made me, I couldn't run away. I couldn't shy away from anything. I had to face the nerves. I had to face this experience.
00:39:49
Speaker
and like but it was right there in front of me I couldn't drink to forget about it I couldn't drink to to soothe those nerves like you know this girl is in front of me I'm on a date right now I'm gonna have to you know um I'm gonna have to can't find the words hang on um Yeah, I just could, you know, I had no choice but to be my best self on that date and embrace the anxiety and embrace those nerves. um Whereas before drinking, I'm just running away from it and it's counting my judgment and it's just not making me a very interesting person. um And I don't have a lot of control about what's coming out of my mouth. Yeah.
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm um thinking about um what they say about stage fright and those nerves that you have when you go on stage or you make a speech where you do something where really important. They're really useful because they bring you up to yourself as you just described. They put you on your metal and all your senses are alive and it it may not feel it doesn't feel comfortable, but it means you will perform better than if you really didn't have all your faculties because of a few drinks.
00:41:01
Speaker
so um So, I mean, the piece you wrote for the mix was, um ah we yeah, it was just really interesting. What well would you say young people in particular need to know about, about sober
Benefits of Sober Dating
00:41:22
Speaker
dating? what what what would Why would you say try it? Why would you say give it a go if people haven't done that, young people haven't done that?
00:41:30
Speaker
um I'd say give it a go because it's it saves you a lot of money. ah True. I mean, drinks are not cheap anymore. It's like, what, $7.50 a pint? Especially in London. Oh, yeah. tenor i've just I drinking gin because it's a tenner every time. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Most importantly though, I think if you are really if you're serious about dating, if you're serious about finding someone, and I think also it boosts your chances of them liking you too, but getting rid of the alcohol, and get into
00:42:00
Speaker
you know, by being sober on a date, it helps you get to know someone on a deeper, more personal level, you get to chat about the real stuff and the stuff that matters to them. um Yeah, it keeps your head on your shoulders, it gives you that sense of confidence, that self esteem, that is only going to put you in the best position when it comes to dating. if you Don't get me wrong, if you are just a casual dater, if you're looking for a one night fling, then maybe you know a few a few drinks ain't going to hurt. But if you are really serious about finding someone, and I think we all are deep down, and yeah about connecting with that special person and building a life with them,
00:42:42
Speaker
Then go go sober, just do a couple of sober dates, see how it is. I think by doing the first few dates sober gives you that confidence, that injection of enthusiasm and self-esteem. And then a few dates down, once you've got to know each other a bit more, having a few drinks is only going to enhance that bond that you've already made.
00:43:00
Speaker
so by going sober and sober dating you get to show off your true authentic self you're not hiding behind a mask of alcohol it's you and they're either going to like you or not like you. That's, that's the dating game, isn't it? But at least you're showing your gen, genuity and your authenticity. Um, so yeah, that's why I'd encourage anybody even just once just to try sober dating. Yeah. So what, I mean, I need to just be clear here. You're not saying everyone should be sober is much better. You're saying that um even if you're a drinker, experiment and ha and try dating without a drink just to see what that experience is like. Right.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i you know Since I went sober, I've never been that sort of person that says like we shouldn't drink, get rid of all the pubs. like We're going to drink and like sometimes drinks are really nice. like i I miss a red wine and I know that people are really passionate about alcohol and it's ah an important part of their lives. but Yeah, that's fine. But I think we all owe it to ourselves to see what it's like on the other side of the coin as well.
00:44:09
Speaker
and and ah Yeah, I think it just goes back to you never really your true self. I don't think when you have a couple of drinks um and then any more than a couple of drinks, you're definitely not your true self. But by just cutting out all of the alcohol and then embracing what can be a nerve-wracking situation,
00:44:28
Speaker
even if they say no at the end of the night, I don't want to see you anymore, at least you you've done that, you've learned about yourself, you've boosted your confidence and you've you you've got more resilience when you go into the next date who could be, for one, who knows? Yeah, no, that's a really good point and i'm I'm also thinking you waste less time on connections that aren't meant to be and that won't be your person for the long term because but the longterm sorry because if you're connecting as you're describing on a much deeper level, both of you are are able to get to know each other properly and understand, is this person right for who I am rather than with a drink, can I be the sort of person that this person will like more, which is a much falter way of starting a relationship. So it may be that you
00:45:25
Speaker
it it doesn't work and it jars and you you're not a match but then you know that much quicker than if you'd been having a few drinks and connecting with the wrong person and then finding out 10 months later that this doesn't actually work and you've just lost all that time.
00:45:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just to bring it back to my first so sober dating experience, that's exactly what happened. um We went, we had a great first date. As I said, we were talking for like four to five hours. Then we met up again, it was another sober date. And I think we just both decided that it wasn't for us. um In fact, she said, we were talking about lookalikes.
00:46:05
Speaker
To be honest, the second date wasn't going so well anyway. The conversation was falling a little bit flat, but that's fine. We we realized that we didn't have as much as in common as we forward. We were talking about lookalikes. She said that I looked like Ricky Gervais, and then I knew that was the end of us. Like, that we were not going anywhere, but anywhere else, any further. um And that that was it. But, you know, having that little head on us.
00:46:30
Speaker
Having that level head on us made us both come to the decision. Do you know what? This isn't for us and that's fine. We've tried it. And also it was the first time she had a sober date too. So it opened her eyes to what dating could be like. It doesn't have to be, you know, get your your default drink and and then chat. um Yeah. I yeah i still still feel a bit sour about that Ricky Gervais comment, but you know, had i been had a drunk alcohol probably but probably would have taken it a bit bit more.
00:47:00
Speaker
personally, yeah again, being sober, whatever. Okay, move on. Well, i'm I'm looking at you and I'm having a bit of a mind blank about what Ricky Gervais looks like because I i can't ah instinctively can't quite see it. so But clearly you were a mismatch. Yeah. And that's fine. It's it's life. It happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm better to find that out quicker. Yeah.
00:47:23
Speaker
Yeah. Tom, it's been really interesting. And I mean, God, the thought of going on a date with Uber is quite terrifying. I think you should try it, Helen. Yeah, a lot of doing things sober just anyway, just to see what the different experience is. It does feel like an attractive proposition. So I appreciate that. And if you're a young person who's in that culture, the drinking culture and and dating and and trying to find your person. I'd say it's an experiment worth trying. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. Tom, is there anything that you would like to talk about or say that you haven't said during this or where where can people find more resources? We've talked about the mix already. Is there anything on the mix that's specific or any way you'd like people to connect with you?
Alcohol-Free Living for Growth
00:48:18
Speaker
Yeah, just it's just a few closing words. I would say and talking about going sober and and and living a sober life, um if you if anybody listening was considering it, or if parents are listening of ah kids who um who were considering it, I would say that cuisine alcohol That's the easy part. But I think for me personally, the hard part was by quitting alcohol, it cleared my head and it allowed me to sort out what was going on in here. yeah We were talking about the whole journey from school into university. It was a really tough time for me. By not drinking alcohol, I've now been able to do that over the last year, work on myself, bring that self-love. I've almost been dating myself in a way. um
00:49:09
Speaker
So don't think that just quitting alcohol is in itself going to be a colossal achievement. It is. It absolutely is. But it's about giving you that space to do the stuff inside you but that really matters. um And by not drinking alcohol, you you have got that opportunity to just be be your best self.
00:49:31
Speaker
um And yeah, I mean, and you're not on this journey alone with the, you know, with the mix, they're doing sensational work helping thousands of young people across the UK with whatever they're going through. We have tons of articles and resources on living a sober life, moderating your drinking, dealing with so many different mental health conditions at university. i You name it, we've got it on the mix. So if anyone's listening and they they wanted to find out more about
00:50:02
Speaker
about the topics that we've discussed here, and if they feel like they're finding it hard, visit us at The Mix, themix.org.uk. We also have a great podcast out as well, not to steal Helen's thunder, but it's called... Yeah, I'm going to have a listen. Perfect, thank you. It's called The Mix 6 podcast. It's wherever you get your podcasts.
00:50:26
Speaker
And yeah, again, we just, whatever a young person, anyone under 25 is going through, we we cover it. It doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, who you love. We like to think that we make every effort possible to address what you're going through and not make you feel so alone with that journey. um there's free There's free counseling sessions for young people. There's a thriving community full of thousands of young people that connect with one another. like pi peer to peer support. and Again, if you wanted to write articles for us, if you wanted to get involved in the podcast, just let us know. We are here for every single young person in the UK. Amazing. And I ah couldn't agree more. It really is a great support for young people.
00:51:11
Speaker
um and um And also I'm agreeing with you with the the quitting alcohol just clears your head to make that brave decision to re-engage with yourself. Which at the end of the day, I say it's brave because it is tough, but it is really what we're all about. we We're born to be who we're meant to be, and we can only do that if we really have a good relationship with ourselves. So I'm really pleased that you came and told your story to us. Thank you, Tom.
00:51:40
Speaker
Thank you, Helen. It's been an absolute pleasure. You've you've helped me delve into parts of my life that I thought long gone. um So it's been been a journey and thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please give it a rating on your podcast app. And if you know someone who might benefit from listening, do share it with them.
00:52:05
Speaker
It also means a lot when you give me feedback. So if you have comments or suggestions for another episode, or know someone who'd like to tell their story on the Teenage Kicks podcast, do get in touch at helen at helenwheels.com or come and find me on my blog, actuallymommy.co.uk. Head over there now for more articles on the joys and there are many of parenting a teenager. Bye for now.