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Ep. 93: The teenagers who campaign to make the world a better place with World Vision
222 Plays5 months ago
This is a podcast that will change how you look at the problems you're going through. Carrie's voice is full of wisdom, and she knows what she's talking about, because she's been there too.
Carrie Grant, MBE, is a TV presenter, vocal coach, activist, and World Vision ambassador who has worked with the charity for over 10 years. She was awarded an MBE in 2020 “for services to music, to media and to charity”.
She partners with World Vision on the podcast series Raising Changemakers, where she hears from children who are making big changes in their global communities by campaigning to stop harmful practices like child labour, child marriage and FGM.
Carrie explains what teenagers can do if they're appalled by the state of the world. She also tells us about her own difficult experiences with Crohn's disease, a life-changing condition she had to learn to live with at a very young age.
She also talks about what it's like to raise neurodivergent children. Her book, A Very Modern Family, tells her family's story of neurodiversity.
More teenage parenting from Helen Wills:
Helen wills is a counsellor, a parent coach, and a teen mental health podcaster and blogger at Actually Mummy, a resource for midlife parents of teens.
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please email [email protected].
There are already stories from fabulous guests about difficult things that happened to them as teenagers - including losing a parent, becoming a young carer, and being hospitalised with mental health problems - and how they overcame things to move on with their lives.
You can find more from Helen Wills on parenting teenagers on Instagram and Twitter @iamhelenwills.
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Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
Episode produced by Malloy Podcasts.
Transcript
Epiphany and Mindset Shift
00:00:00
Speaker
And in a moment, there was like this kind of epiphany of stop looking at what you've lost and look at what you've got left. This sentence just was going around in my head. What have I got left? What is there? Even if it's tiny, even if I can't dance and sing anymore and I'm stuck in this bed, what can I do in this bed from this space?
00:00:24
Speaker
That was an absolute change for me in my mindset. And once my mindset changed, everything began to change.
Introduction to Teenage Kicks Podcast
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to the Teenage Kicks podcast where we take the fear out of parenting or becoming a teenager. I'm Helen Wills and every week I talk to someone who had a difficult time in the teenage years but came out the other side in a good place and has insight to offer to parents and young people who might be going through the same. Now, if you've got a teenager who's often outraged about the state of the world and a lot of them are,
00:01:10
Speaker
I've got two of my own. You're going to love my chat with today's guest.
Meet Carrie Grant
00:01:15
Speaker
Carrie Grant is a TV presenter, a vocal coach, an activist and World Vision Ambassador who's worked with the charity for over 10 years. She was awarded an MBE in 2020 for services to music, to media and to charity.
00:01:31
Speaker
Carrie partners with World Vision on the podcast series, Raising Changemakers, where she hears from children who are making big changes in their global communities by campaigning to stop harmful practices like child labour, child marriage and FGM.
00:01:49
Speaker
Carrie has a family legacy of supporting communities and making change happen. She has a special relationship with Sierra Leone, the country she visited with World Vision as part of the podcast. Her father's buried there having visited Sierra Leone in 1992 to become a missionary, settling in the capital, Freetown. He opened 12 Bible colleges across the country, which was still running when he died in 1996.
Family Life and Social Campaigns
00:02:16
Speaker
Together with her husband, David,
00:02:19
Speaker
Carrie is passionate about campaigning for adoption, autism, ADHD, invisible disability, and inclusion and have four children, all of whom are neurodivergent. So she talks about this too.
Overcoming a Troubled Past
00:02:34
Speaker
Together, her and David host the Saturday Breakfast Show on BBC Radio London. I'm going to ask Carrie to say a little bit more about why she started the podcast and what she believes is key for us to hold in mind as parents of today's teenagers.
00:02:48
Speaker
Kerry, welcome to Teenage Kicks. Thank you so much for having me, Helen.
Coping with Ill Health
00:02:54
Speaker
I'm really excited because we've had an episode already about teenagers who are distressed about climate change because it's one of the many things that I've picked up in my own kids that they're outraged about in the world today and would like to change.
00:03:13
Speaker
So I'm excited to talk to you about, to kind of expand the topic and hear about all the things that you're involved in. But before we begin, as is tradition, Carrie, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your teenage years.
00:03:29
Speaker
Oh, gosh, my teenage years, when I look back, it's just this is so typical because my kids are now decided to start printing stuff right into my head. So if you're hearing that, they never leave you alone, do they? Even for an hour's podcast.
Transformative Hospital Experience
00:03:44
Speaker
So my teenage years, I think, were
00:03:47
Speaker
years of great hope, actually, I'd had a very, very difficult childhood with all kinds of abuse that went on in my childhood. And so when I got to my teen years, those were the years that I said, I can't, well, I didn't say it at the time, but when I look back, I think I was probably saying this, I was drawing a line in the sand and saying, this is the end of the way my family is.
00:04:13
Speaker
And I will lead a healthier way of living. I will have different experiences. I will have good relationships. I will sustain a relationship, hopefully, which would never seem to be possible in my childhood with my mum and my dad and various boyfriends that came after my dad.
00:04:34
Speaker
and violence and abuse and all kinds of stuff. So I think I was very determined and I saw the arts as a way to be free of my past. I thought I'm going to run my world. I'm going to be successful. I'm going to get myself a little house of some sort, as you thought back then, because it was so different because it was possible. And I had everything worked out.
00:05:03
Speaker
But what I hadn't planned for was ill health, because that's something that you can't control. Pretty much everything else you can say, right, I am going to just kick butt and get out there. And so it's very determined. But then at the age of 18, I started to get very ill. And by the age of 20, I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease. And so suddenly having a lifelong condition that you knew would limit your life in many ways,
00:05:30
Speaker
really changed everything for me it was a huge game changer in a negative way so I had to then process the idea of not being this super strong super amazing human right yeah so I kind of like many people in their teens I'm going to teach many people with singing in their teens and
00:05:50
Speaker
you know, so often it's about building their confidence. I don't think I really needed that in my teens. I was super confident. And then it was a shock to my, to my self when, you know, I realized I wasn't as strong as I thought I was.
Resilience and Advocacy
00:06:04
Speaker
And, and that, um, so really my twenties were about processing the failures of my, my childhood and then all the dreams I'd had. And yeah, so teens in a way were,
00:06:16
Speaker
were dreamy years and ambitious years for all the wrong reasons probably, but they were, yeah, I was very determined. Oh, right. I mean, it's not what we're here to talk about, but do you mind if I ask how you came to terms with that such a significant change? I imagine it looked like it was threatening to derail all your plans.
00:06:40
Speaker
Absolutely it was yeah you've said it in a sentence absolutely so I think I got to I was in my early 20s and I had been in hospital for months and I'd had surgery and I'd had a whole section of my bowel removed and it was very poorly and in pain constantly and I just thought my life is my world is so tiny how did it get this small and in that space I remember laying in bed one night it would have been about four in the morning and I was in a
00:07:10
Speaker
a ward of different illnesses were going on around me and the woman in the bed next door to mine passed away. And I just thought it doesn't get more, how can it get worse than this? This is so awful. I feel like I'm living on the edge of life itself. And in a moment, there was like this kind of epiphany of stop looking at what you've lost and look at what you've got left. This sentence just was going around in my head. What have I got left? What is there?
00:07:39
Speaker
Even if it's tiny, even if I can't dance and sing anymore and I'm stuck in this bed, what can I do in this bed from this space? And that was an absolute change for me in my mindset. And once my mindset changed,
00:07:56
Speaker
everything began to change because I started to think I can still song right here. I can start writing. I'll be a writer because I'm a creative. So there's new ways of doing things. And I think in that space as well, I think that I've always had that campaigning heart. But I think in that space, my campaigner self was really born.
00:08:17
Speaker
It was, I need to fight for people who feel like me because I was really marginalized as a child and abused and all kinds of stuff. Then I had this teenage years of I'm going to go out and conquer the world. Then I realized, actually, I'm not going to conquer the world because life is really difficult. And then I realized, well, maybe I'm not going to conquer the world, but maybe I can just take a bite sized chunk and start somewhere. And that's really where I began.
Parenting Neurodivergent Children
00:08:44
Speaker
And then it just grew from there, really. Because I found my voice. I found my voice in the darkest place. Right. Oh my goodness. I had goosebumps with you talking about that then. Isn't that just so the case? And it sounds like you were the ideal personality too, because some people would just crumble and that's a really sad thing. And those are the people that need people like you.
00:09:10
Speaker
to help them see the way, but you had that kind of energy to say, do you know what? This isn't going to beat me. I think when you are a survivor,
00:09:22
Speaker
there is always that survival instinct. And so years later when my children came with all of their stuff, I had to go back to that bed at the age of 23 or whatever I was and say, okay, this isn't what you expected, but what can you make out of this? What can you do to lean into this and make something of what you have?
00:09:47
Speaker
And that's I guess been a motto for life. It's not that life is really super successful, it's not. I just do feel though that diamonds are found in the darkness. You're down in that place where it's like, oh my gosh, how do I get out of this? This is a real challenge. And sometimes you have to sit there for a while not knowing
00:10:07
Speaker
You know, not being able to move. You have to sit with the discomfort, don't you? And learn to be comfortable with discomfort. But in that space, I also believe there's magic. If there's terrible things, there must be magic as well. It can't all be bad. There must be something to be had in this space that is of value and usable.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's the human spirit, isn't it? You have to sit there to... I mean, it's kind of like reaching rock bottom, I guess. You have to sit there to realize that you don't want to be there anymore and for your brain to kick in with, okay, then what can I actually do here? And then...
00:10:40
Speaker
Yes. And then we become more resourceful than we've ever been before. Yes. And stuff shifts. I think that's just such a message of hope. Like, stuff does shift. And even when I'm, you know, and I still have moments where I just go, oh my gosh, the next thing's just hit me. What do I do now? But I'm confident in
World Vision and Global Empowerment
00:10:59
Speaker
this at the age of 58 now.
00:11:01
Speaker
that actually something always shows up. So that's the great thing about growing older is that you have the experience of seeing those cycles working in your life. Yeah, it's kind of, you need to keep a balance, don't you? Because I'm very similar age to you. And it's dawned on me in the last couple of years that nothing terrible lasts forever. There's always going to be something better coming always. But with that recognition,
00:11:29
Speaker
I also have to recognize that there will always be something bad after the good thing. It's never going to, that's just life, isn't it? We can't always be on top. Yes, which is why actually for me, I feel, I mean, I don't want to knock anybody else, but I really feel, I'm challenged by that thing. I just want my kids to be happy. I think what's so nebulous. What does that even mean? How can your... Great word. What? You know, I want my kids to be whole.
00:11:59
Speaker
Because if they're whole, they will understand how to navigate both joy, happiness and absolute sadness and despair. Because life will certainly bring all of those things. Yes, yes, yes. And it's knowing that you can actually... That's what age brings, is knowing that you've ridden that out before and you can ride out whatever shit is coming your way next. And there will be amazing times along the way that you haven't even conceived of yet.
00:12:28
Speaker
And I also think in some ways those really difficult times do, I know it sounds a bit corny really, but it does allow you the appreciation of the good stuff. I know I started just before lockdown, not knowing lockdown was coming, I remember just thinking my children are so difficult right now. I'm going to, I took one of my little exercise books, I'm going to write down everything positive that they do. And I got two days in and I'd done like three pages of
00:12:55
Speaker
positive things they've done. And I just thought, wow, they're doing amazing stuff all the time. My kids are amazing. I just need to notice it, you know? Well, that's the theory of a gratitude journal, isn't it? We're going massively off topic here, but every time I remember to write in my journal and read back a few days, I'm like, oh yeah, really? Nice things are in my life.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I think, and with our children, sometimes it's sometimes it's that they can be challenging. Sometimes it's that the whole system, every system that you're trying to access is so super challenging. It's way harder than your children is the system. So just having those moments to say, my child just gave the other child
00:13:39
Speaker
they're crisps. And it's just like, wow, I've seen generosity in you. I've seen kindness and that child wasn't nice to you yesterday. So that's particularly noticeable. And then that child said, thank you. Wow. Yes. You've done something. You've achieved. I mean, small wins all the way. Absolutely. I'm now, I'm beating myself up now because I don't think I've ever seen one of my kids give
00:14:04
Speaker
give each other their crisps. That's on the agenda for this weekend to make it
Self-Advocacy and Empowerment
00:14:09
Speaker
happen. Yeah. Well, money's all about the small stuff. So it's, yeah. Oh, amazing. Thank you for that. I'm so glad I asked about your teenage years now. Getting on to the topic of the podcast. How, how, how did,
00:14:26
Speaker
I don't even know where to begin because you've told me that this is where the drive came from to help other people. But how did you get involved with World Vision? So World Vision approached me, I don't even know when it was, it's certainly over 10 years ago, and just said, we want to do a series of events for women.
00:14:46
Speaker
And we want someone who can tell stories, because I love, I'm a little storyteller, and also do some music. And so I traveled, I think, first to India and then to Uganda, and just saw some of the projects that World Vision were involved with. And they had, at that time, 10 years ago, there were the tiniest, tiniest seeds of
00:15:09
Speaker
let's do stuff with the children that will empower the children. I think back then it was more about how do we help the adults to find work, to start tiny little businesses, micro businesses, and then they're self-sustaining. That was really their thing. But actually over these 10 years more and more what I've seen and this last trip to Sierra Leone at the end of 23 completely blew it out of the park. It was incredible.
00:15:38
Speaker
that they are all about empowering the children to make changes and this for me was so exciting because these children are incredible and I suppose again at my age I'm looking now at what what's the well there's many generations behind me now but just what are young people able to do when I look at my generation that has really let
00:16:02
Speaker
the younger generation down in many ways and we're not to be trusted in many ways and that's difficult. So they've got to find their own agency, their own autonomy, their own way of speaking up and finding their voice and that's what I've seen with World Vision is going to Sierra Leone, meeting with all these young people
00:16:21
Speaker
My goodness, they're so articulate. They know exactly what they want. They know how to voice it. And that's the work that World Wishin' have done with them to help them to find that. Then I did the podcast, which was much broader and went all over the world with young people in terms of recording.
00:16:37
Speaker
wow the stories that are out there and the stuff that these people are up to you've got like you know there'll be a young child who's in a refugee camp with thousands and thousands of people and they're starting like a little news corps within the refugee camp so they make their own programs they make that somehow they've got some little bit of equipment and they're learning how to tell their news how to tell their stories and then getting that out there and I think for me living in the UK that gives me
00:17:06
Speaker
a face to a refugee camp otherwise I'm just thinking a refugee camp it doesn't mean anything but when you hear the voices and the stories you know and I could that could cover anything from climate change to female genital mutilation it could be hunger all the different subjects but the children are learning the language to speak up in
00:17:30
Speaker
And for us to be able to hear that and understand what challenges they face. Yeah, I love that because you're right. When you talk about refugee camps, I'm taken back to 1985 or whenever it was and Feed the World and all of that. And it was all very much, well, it was very Western.
00:17:55
Speaker
And it wasn't any of the people involved in those crises. And so, yeah, being able to hear from the people who are actually there. But what I really loved about what you said is how you said articulate, but I want to say I want to say resourced, but
00:18:16
Speaker
They've learned how to do things for themselves and not only that, but tell the world about it. Absolutely. And so much of that is about learning the language of campaigning, the campaigning language or
00:18:32
Speaker
speaking up for yourself, advocating for yourself, has a particular language. I had to learn that when I was told that my children were autistic or had ADHD and suddenly you're in, it's like the world of acronym. You're like, you know, see the Senco or you might need cams about ASD or ADHD. And you're just like, I don't know what anyone's talking about. And you feel so stupid. I did feel so stupid. And I quickly kind of,
00:18:59
Speaker
cottoned on to, okay, that's what that must mean. I'd go home and I'd look stuff up. And then you learn how to advocate. I learned that as a Crohn's patient, how to advocate for myself as a patient, how to say, I would like to lead in my health alongside my consultant. And I want to take a position in that rather than just feeling like it's all done to me. I want to do something with people.
00:19:23
Speaker
And that, I think, is exactly as you said. So young people are saying, we don't want this done to us. It's not just about sending us money or sending us food or sending us something, but actually how do we work together to make something that is really sustainable? And that, to me, the World Vision are the best at doing that. It's the sustainability angle and the empowering of young people. Yeah.
00:19:47
Speaker
Advocating for yourself is such a skill and it's something that I think everyone should be taught actually and all our kids need to learn this. I've got exactly the same, not exactly the same, but a parallel experience to yours and I've never had to advocate for neurodivergent kids, but my daughter has type 1 diabetes, which is very, very underestimated in the world, very dangerous health condition.
00:20:14
Speaker
And again, I had to learn a lot of acronyms. I know so much about what goes on in her blood and her hormone levels that she doesn't want me to know. It's very unfair. And I've had to advocate for her with school and with her medical team. And I know when you said, I want to take the lead in my own health, you have to do that with your own consultant. Even the experts need to be told about what's going on for you. Absolutely, yes.
00:20:43
Speaker
It really is. And then we as parents have that moment where we realise there is a shift where my child is now because we've advocated for our children. Yes. Because we've had to when they're little. They don't know what's going on in their blood or what they should be eating or when they should be
00:21:02
Speaker
what time to eat and all those things like you'd have with diabetes and all the stuff I'm not aware of and you are. But at some point, your child is going to go, actually, I'd like to now take control or you say, you're going away to uni or you're going to do this or I'm going away for a week, you're going to have to do this now. And that there's that, that transitional phase that happens with you as a parent and your child, which
00:21:27
Speaker
I've had to go through with each of my children, how they transitioned through different areas of life. Now you're going to have to speak for yourself. Now you are going to have to advocate.
Transitioning Advocacy to Children
00:21:36
Speaker
And I think that's a really precious moment. And sometimes they're reluctant to do it. And sometimes I've got four kids, so I've got a combination.
00:21:43
Speaker
A couple are just like, I'm doing it myself and totally independent. And a couple are just like, do everything for me. You can never determine the outcome, the same children, different children going up in the same home, but helping them to advocate for themselves.
00:22:00
Speaker
I mean, it's really important, especially with something like diabetes, because it's a long-term chronic condition that's going to be there for life. Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel lucky in some ways with my daughter because she is of the variety that says, you just back off, I'm on this. It's none of your business anymore. Wow. And that creates all sorts of worries in that transition phase of, God, is she getting it right? And she's definitely not doing it the way I would, but that's right. She has to do it her way. Allowing them. And that's what's difficult, because if you're allowing them to do
00:22:30
Speaker
their own thing, which of course is right that they do their own thing. However, if they're not doing it, if it's with something where it's a danger to life, you kind of, it's hard not to step in, right? Yeah. I mean, I've always known that she would, she, she knows how to keep herself alive. As long as she's awake, she'll keep herself alive. It's fine. Um, but, um, yeah, there was a period where I used to try and micromanage and it really backfired on our relationship and actually this is,
00:22:57
Speaker
We are going off topic and we'll come straight back to it, but this is the point that I try to make with all the parents that I coach. You've actually got to tolerate the stress that you carry over them choosing to do everything a different way to how you would have done it for them. You have to, because otherwise you'll ruin your relationship with them. It's so difficult. Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:23
Speaker
I think for those of us that are in the special needs community, it's even more profound in a profound way that that happens because you do have to micromanage school and health and social care and getting your EHCP and all the things that you have to do when you're a parent of a SEND child. It's so detailed. I mean, in a way you're desperate to not have to do all that detail.
00:23:52
Speaker
But yeah, these are challenges, aren't they?
World Vision's Evolving Focus
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, well, and just bringing it back to World Vision, I can imagine that that's kind of the role that the World Vision people have played, and you must have seen this, with the kids in Sierra Leone and other countries, to help them figure out their own way of educating themselves. Yes, and I would say, so I was in Uganda in maybe 2017, maybe,
00:24:21
Speaker
around that time and I would say that when the children were talking about forming school councils and having meetings and they were just beginning to be empowered but I would say looking back they sounded a little scripted whereas going to Sierra Leone last December there's a big change that there's the World Vision people they're there but they're very much in the background and the children are very much in the foreground and they are owning what they're saying
00:24:51
Speaker
their lived experience in their own narrative is threaded through everything that they are saying. So yes, you are right and I've seen that even on an organisational level with World Vision, I definitely have seen that change.
Youth Empowerment and Activism
00:25:04
Speaker
It's about trust, isn't it? Trusting that actually they are able to fend for themselves and speak up and advocate and find the right words. Yeah, well it's taking a leap of faith.
00:25:14
Speaker
It's like the first time you let your child walk to school on their own. You have to take that deep breath and wave them by with a cheerful smile and shut the door and then bite your nails. Yeah. And then follow them on the map on your phone. Yeah. I mean, that's what we do nowadays, isn't it? God knows how it was for our parents.
00:25:34
Speaker
They just had to trust. Every parent has taken a leap of faith and clearly the world vision people have taught us and then they have gained enough confidence to be able to say, here's how we've done it before, how would you like to do it?
00:25:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've really seen that. Yeah, amazing. What's your favourite story from Sierra Leone or anyone else to be fair, whichever you prefer to tell? What have you seen that's been really like a goosebump moment for you? Yeah, I think one of the most profound moments was
00:26:15
Speaker
with a young man who was telling me about there being lots of tree felling where he lives and he was saying that in the immediate it helps the village and it helps his family because they get money for the timber but what it doesn't do is help them in terms of their hunger
00:26:37
Speaker
So it's linked to hunger and linked to climate change. So the more they do of tree felling, the more, you know, it's not good in the long run. And so I said to him, I mean, we dared to ask this question. In fact, I think when we were recording, I think it was the lady who had the microphone actually asked this question, not me, because I don't think I would have dared to ask it. She said, what is it like to be hungry?
00:27:02
Speaker
I mean, that just feels like such a personal question to ask someone. And he said, well, it means that I go to bed sometimes and my whole body aches, but my tummy really, really aches from being hungry. And then I have to decide whether I eat one day or leave it that day and try to eat more than try and double my portion of whatever is something really tiny on the next day.
00:27:32
Speaker
Um, and how much pain I can tolerate so that I can leave it till the next day. And if I eat more the next day, that means I might get a whole 24 hours when I'm not in pain. God. So it's about pain management. I don't think anyone. And making choices that are.
00:27:56
Speaker
just i don't know just so big yeah i hadn't even considered that hunger equals full body pain yeah and there was another girl who talked to me about
00:28:11
Speaker
She was, I think, 11 years old when she went to school. Oh, no, she was younger than that. She was nine years old. She went to school and they started talking about FGM. And she learned that her family were about to send her away because they wanted her to get married. And so they needed to do the female genital mutilation before that. And so she went to school and there was a teacher that was
00:28:40
Speaker
speaking about it, saying how bad it was. So she said, she went to her teacher and said, this is about to happen, I think. I've heard my family talking about it. And so they had to call the police in the middle of the night and get this child away from her family. Wow. And she then lived away from her family until she was an adult. She's now an adult
00:29:10
Speaker
She's married. I think she has children. But she had to live without her family for the rest of her childhood. And you realize the cost, the cost of standing up, the cost of speaking up, the cost of saying I'm drawing a line for my family this far and no further.
00:29:30
Speaker
It costs, doesn't it? And the bravery of these young people, it's just mind blowing. Yeah. What a terrible decision to have to make. She made the choice between her family and her own body. Yes. Yes. I feel like crying when you were saying that. I'm so angry. It's just so unimaginable. And then she went back to her family
00:29:57
Speaker
She went to university in America in the end and she got her degree and then she went back to her village. She dared to go back and said, you know, I've got my degree and her family was so proud of her. She's the first person in their village to ever have gone to university. And now her father, along with her, is an anti-FGM campaigner.
00:30:22
Speaker
So you're like, then what's good? But you know, she still lived half her childhoods outside of her family. Yeah. You never get those years back. That's trauma, isn't it? Exactly. And how many that doesn't happen for. Right? Ugh. Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
Right. I've just gone through the whole range of emotions there in the space of three minutes. Big subjects that these young people face though. We have big subjects here like climate change. Of course, our young people are really concerned about these things and climate change anxieties is a reality.
00:31:02
Speaker
There's no doubt about that. And I'm not, there shouldn't be like, well, this person's got more of something to stress about than you, but some of those stories are so harsh and hard. And climate change is literally affecting them, meaning they have to move village or travel or they've got an immediate, they're okay for the immediate two years of food because they've got money and after that, they've got no more trees to chop down, so they will starve.
00:31:33
Speaker
You know, that's the reality of the existence that they're living. Yeah. Yeah. And so World Vision are doing all this amazing work and your brilliant podcast is talking about it for other people to understand what's going on and open eyes for people like me. What's the goal in getting this message to, well,
00:32:00
Speaker
Well, to all of us, I suppose, but I'm really interested in if you can reach kids and teenagers. And I'm specifically talking, I'm talking about them because that's what my podcast is about. But I talk about them because in this context, because everything I see, it's not just my kids, it's their friends and the wider adolescent population who are
00:32:26
Speaker
It might be a bit naive of me, but their energy and their outrage, as I said right at the beginning, and their passion for wanting it to be different, not just for them, but for everyone. My daughter's a massive feminist, and intersectional feminism is a big deal for her.
00:32:54
Speaker
How can we help these kids? Because as you say, we're the generation that on climate change has fucked up. I'm just going to say it. I'll put an explicit warning on the podcast. We've really made a mess of things for them, not deliberately, but without realizing and now we realize and we're still making a mess of it. What can we do?
00:33:18
Speaker
to support those kids and what can those kids do to help those kids who are out there suffering all this? Yeah.
Belonging vs. Fitting In
00:33:25
Speaker
Well, I think that the work that World Vision does has two aims, and we've got lots more aims, and I'm certainly not the person to give you the full, you know, this is what they're there for, but certainly the podcast series is to encourage all young people to find their voice 100%. And in the UK, we've got UK people as well that are on our podcast.
00:33:48
Speaker
but also obviously World Vision's work is to be sponsoring children. So when you sponsor a child, more of this stuff can happen. It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. And that is what these people are talking back to governments. They're going sometimes, a couple of the people I met, young people had journey to other parts of Africa and were parts of conferences that were on a global stage. And so I think that that's really wonderful. I think for our UK kids,
00:34:17
Speaker
The challenge, and you will know this from having teens, is that our children have such polarised opposite offers. So on one side, they're offered an incredibly fake, shallow, instant dopamine rush life.
00:34:37
Speaker
where you've got to look a certain way and be a certain way and have these certain things. And on the other side, they are offered something that is really gritty and drills down and has depth and is about caring and is about belonging. I agree with you. I'm so excited about the potential in our young people. The challenge, I believe, is to encourage
00:35:07
Speaker
the former group to become the latter group. You know, how we can recognize, you know, you and I are here, we both look nice and glamorous, I've got my hair and makeup done, but that isn't me in everyday life, this is me for media. And understanding that actually every bit of power that you get, however tiny, is currency.
00:35:34
Speaker
and currency is usable. So every single bit for me, the minute I became a little bit famous, I started talking about Crohn's disease and talking about bottoms. And no one was talking about bottoms back in the early 2000s. It was too like you can't talk about poo and stuff. And I was like, No, I'm going to talk about it. And, and so then thereby we break through another barrier that was there. And I think
00:36:00
Speaker
For our young people, just to say any agency you have is to use that agency. If you don't have agency, join with others because we create groundswell. And when we create groundswell, we can affect change. Change only happens when people break the rules. So someone has to shout from the margins and go, hey, over there, you need to stop that. And we're coming. We're coming for you. We are going to protest and we are going to do everything we can to make change.
00:36:30
Speaker
And change happens when enough people shout. Eventually, eventually there comes a tipping point and things change. We didn't see women in boardrooms when I was a child. We certainly didn't see working-class people like me go to university. You know, I'm doing my MA at the moment. I would never have had a chance to do that when I was a teenager, because no one was in my family, you just got a job. You know, I left school at 15 and started work.
00:37:00
Speaker
So all of those things bit by bit, change happens and progress happens. But I think one of the biggest challenges for our young people are those two things is to see which group do you belong in, but also a sense of belonging. You know, I think that belonging is so important on a deep level, not just on a shallow level. How do we belong to one another?
00:37:22
Speaker
That would be my big question for young people is to encourage that because the opposite of belonging is fitting in. I thought the opposite of belonging was not belonging, but it's not. The opposite of belonging is fitting in. I don't want my kids, my kids can't fit in because they're just so different. So there's got to be a place where belonging is about whoever you are, however you are, whatever you are, just come as you are, show up as yourself and we are going to love on you. We're going to embrace you.
00:37:52
Speaker
make sure that we belong to one another in this really diverse and inclusive world. And there's no good stepping against that. There's no point in saying, well, we don't want to be inclusive. We don't want, look, you knock me down, there's 10 behind me coming for you. So it's going to happen. We are going to be more diverse and inclusive. No matter how much the grownups try and polarize us, the young people want that. And that's what they will get.
00:38:19
Speaker
I hope they get to see it in their lifetime, but that's what I'm encouraging my kids is just belonging, create communities, make villages, invite everybody to join in.
Reflections on Parenting and Change
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my God.
00:38:33
Speaker
If I was looking a bit distracted then it's because I was writing down timestamps because you've just given me so many sound bites for social media. It is all about belonging and you're right. The opposite of belonging is fitting in. It's making yourself into something you're not in order to feel as if you belong.
00:38:51
Speaker
And if that doesn't cause anxiety, I don't know what does. Kids are like, I don't fit. How do I fit? It's like, actually, you fit right where you are. You just be yourself and show up and you you will attract people that are like you to yourself.
00:39:06
Speaker
And you might attract some people who aren't like you too, which is great. Yeah. And that's when you make the change happen. Although the other thing I wrote down was change happens when you break the rules, which is something that no parent wants to hear, but it's so completely true. And now that I'm sort of out the other side of needing to keep my kids safe and they are on the verge of being fully fledged adults, I can see, I'm proud of their rule breaking. Yes. Yeah. I mean, in all the meetings that I go into with
00:39:36
Speaker
health, social care and education. I get into a meeting, I'm like, right, before we even start, who's prepared to break rules? Because the system is never going to allow you to do anything. So you're looking for those people that say, we don't normally do that. But that's my favourite sentence coming out of anyone's mouth.
00:39:54
Speaker
I don't normally do this, but we don't normally do this, but do something new then, because if it's not working, get out of the box and have a play. Oh, you're speaking my language. Think outside the box and if my kids ever listen to this, they'll be going, mother, who are you? Because I've been such a rule-driven person, but I've seen the light. But I think we all are, you know, we're socialised to be there, aren't we? And I was just the same. I did want my kids sitting in the restaurant and reading the menu in French and being really fancy.
00:40:22
Speaker
you know I wanted to be that parent that every other parent looked at and went oh my gosh on her kids great she's I didn't get that one I got the one with the kids under the table and the one you know just yeah walking out yes I am that parent so yeah you know you just have to deal with what you've got and actually
00:40:40
Speaker
I would say that my children have changed me beyond recognition. And I'm so grateful for that because I needed that change. Yeah, absolutely. My kids have taught me more about myself than I ever learned before they were on the scene. More in teenage years than ever before that. That's so true, Helen. And I think we
00:41:00
Speaker
I think the generations before us just said, you have to stick with this is we all know how to do it. There's a boxed way of doing it. And that works. And, you know, I'd love to think I would love it. My gosh, wouldn't it be simple if it did work like that. But these days, we can talk, you know,
00:41:16
Speaker
sociologically, psychologically, why that no longer works, it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not going to work in this generation.
Episode Conclusion with Advocacy Insights
00:41:22
Speaker
So we have to, you know, for me, I had to jump ship, I got, I can't do it in that boxed way. My children are different children. So, but you know, like you, I'm very proud of mine. Yeah, tell us a little bit about that, because you've written a book about them. Yeah, it's got a very modern family, my children, I've got four children, three birth, one adopted, and they range from 14 up to 29. And
00:41:46
Speaker
They are just extraordinary. They are really amazing kids, but they're all neurodivergent. I've got three that are trans or trans and non-binary. Some have had mental health issues. They're all mixed race, obviously. So, you know, we are a Jamaican house. And so the children are themselves and they are very different and they face challenges because they're different. And most children that have
00:42:14
Speaker
difference in terms of neurodivergence. Most children will, if they're in mainstream school, actually any school, will probably, the chances are they will come out from school traumatized. So your child, you're dealing with trauma from a very, very young age. So we had to become trauma-informed parents. Probably about 10 years ago, we started on that journey and it changed us and it changed our family.
00:42:40
Speaker
We also started to practice the thing called non-violent resistance and that really worked for our family. Yeah, it works particularly if you have adopted children, NVR they call it.
00:42:53
Speaker
absolutely life changing. So those kind of strategies and ways of working with children and that deep, deep listening have transformed the way we parent and our children have, you know, they've been through a lot, been through an awful lot.
00:43:12
Speaker
You're right, it is trauma because why wouldn't it be if you're having to fit yourself to that box that you describe when it doesn't work for you and be someone that you're not for seven hours a day of being in six hours, whatever it is, of being in school. And so if a child becomes
00:43:35
Speaker
you know, trigger warning, if a child becomes her suicidal ideation, we had one child that was on and off suicide watch for three years in and out of hospital. And you know, as a parent, you're changed by that. I'm not going to be the same as I was before those experiences. And I'm different. I'm changed. And because your priority then is about keeping a child alive. You drop the sats, you drop the GCSEs, you drop the everything. You're just like, please just keep breathing. And
00:44:03
Speaker
And when you come out of that phase, as we did, you are then, you know, you're building in a different way, but you're very joyful for everything that they do that works. And I look at that 22 year old child now and I'm just like wowed by them. They're extraordinary. But those years were really hard. And there's, there isn't a book where we've written a book, but you know, that you have to, you're learning on the hoof, you're learning as you're going and trying to shape shift
00:44:33
Speaker
into being the parent you need to be on any given day. And that's just one child, plus you're trying to work. Yeah, and do everything else that you're supposed to do. Earn enough money to pay your rent. And look after yourself because that's hard as a parent. It's really hard because everything goes to the kids and you eventually realise that you've got to pull some of it back for you otherwise you're going to be well. Yeah, and I think from those of us who are really empathetic people, which I am, I think I literally
00:45:03
Speaker
Not literally, but I've kind of climbed into the skin of my child in order to understand them. And it's really important to remember to climb back out again. And, you know, look at yourself in the mirror. Two things. I'm Carrie. Okay, I'm Carrie. I'm not this child. And secondly, I'm a good parent. On that, I will not compromise. I know who I am and I know I'm a good parent. And because if you start doubting that, it's over.
00:45:32
Speaker
you're gonna hit that slump and you are not gonna be able to get out of it for a long while. So you have to just, you're a great parent. If you are engaged and you're trying, you're doing your best. You're not always gonna get it right, but you're doing everything you can to make sure your child is moving towards wholeness.
00:45:52
Speaker
Oh gosh, Kerry, can I just book seven more episodes of this podcast with you? I feel like there's so many stories that we could talk about that people would want to hear. It's been so valuable. I'll put the link to your book in the show notes and also to the podcast for World Vision. And is there anything else that you want to say about this whole business of
00:46:21
Speaker
developing advocacy in our children, our teenagers, and the kids who you work with before we end. I think it's that whether you are a young person or an adult listening to this that you have a voice. You may not feel like you have a voice, but you do have a voice. And there are like-minded people out there who are also going, how do I find my voice? And when you
00:46:49
Speaker
Find ways. That's the great thing about social media. Find one another. Create something. Start something. Start chipping away because there is a tipping point and things do change. Perfect way to end. I couldn't have said it better. Carrie, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Helen. Sorry I was so late joining.
00:47:09
Speaker
It's all good and people printing right next to your headphones are the same. I even had a builder drilling in the wall next to me just as I started a podcast recording during lockdown. It's just normal life. It's real. It's fine. Dogs barking, children screaming. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
00:47:35
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. Thank you too to everyone who's already rated and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Amazon, it would mean the world to me if you could leave a review. It really helps get the word out, as well as making me very happy to read what you have to say.
00:47:54
Speaker
If this episode strikes a chord for you, please share it with anyone else you know who might be in the same boat and hit subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. If you have a story or suggestion for something you'd like to see covered on the podcast, you can email me at teenagekickspodcast at gmail.com or message me on Instagram. I am Helen Wills. I love hearing from all my listeners. It really makes a difference to me on this journey.
00:48:24
Speaker
See you next week when I'll be chatting to another brilliant guest about the highs and lows of parenting teams. Bye for now.