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Ep. 104: Why a rebellious teenager might be a good thing
23 Plays35 minutes ago
Parents often worry about the teenage years. The term 'threenager' is frequently used to describe the toddler tantrums that leave parents tearing their hair out. I used it myself, with an eyeroll and a wry smile, but now that I've been through the teenage years I'm apologetic about that. I think it's patronising, and it doesn't help our relationships with our teens.
Katia Vlachos has experienced this from the teen point of view, and it took her until adulthood to realise that her 'good girl' behaviour wasn't serving her. She talks to me about how easy it is to raise a people-pleasing teenager (even when we think we're on the receiving end of full-scale rebellion), and why it's not such a good thing to have a teenager who sticks to the rules.
Who is Katia Vlachos?
Katia Vlachos is a coach and author of a new book called Uncaged. Raised in a traditional Greek family, Katia's early years were spent trying to please others as the perfect daughter and student, but she often found ways to embrace her rebellious spirit - including sneaking out at night and driving off into the sunset on the back of her boyfriend's Harley Davidson. As she grew up, Katia became more weighed down by this 'good girl' persona she'd be trying to live up to until one day, when she was in her 40s, she faced the reality that the life she was living had been designed to make other people happy and not herself.
After a series of life-altering events – including the death of her beloved father and the end of her 17-year marriage – Katia confronts how being obsessed with being seen as 'good' has affected her life decisions and sets out on a path of self-discovery and reinvention. Unpicking how she had been conditioned since childhood to chase societal approval and put the needs and desires of others above her own, Katia used her experiences to write a book about her story and inspire other women who are fed up of feeling guilty for wanting more.
- Katia's book - Uncaged: A Good Girl's journey to reinvention
- Katia on Instagram
- Katia on LinkedIn
- KatiaVlachos.com
- How to Fail podcast
More teenage parenting from Helen Wills
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please email helen@actuallymummy.co.uk.
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Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
Episode produced by Michael J Cunningham
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Transcript
Introduction & Importance of Failure
00:00:00
Speaker
I think it was my therapist who told me, well, you never, like, you don't know how to fail. Yeah. And that can be scary. And we don't want our kids to not know how to fail. Like, now when they mess up, I'm like so happy because I know going to learn Yes. know they didn't have that. Yes, they'll learn how to do better. And they'll also learn that it's not the end of the world if they don't succeed the first time.
Season Nine Introduction & Mental Health Focus
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome to season nine of the Teenage Kicks podcast. I'm your host, writer and psychotherapist Helen Wills. Can you believe it?
00:00:36
Speaker
When I started this podcast, there was nothing much online for parents about teenage mental health, still less about how to cope with our own anxieties when our teenagers are going through difficult stuff.
00:00:50
Speaker
Since then, I've spoken to over 100 guests about struggles they had in their teenage years, how they've coped since, and the advice they'd offer to young adults and their parents today.
00:01:02
Speaker
We've talked about all the difficult things, from anxiety to being diagnosed with an illness or getting kicked out of school. Spoiler alert, it all involves a bit of anxiety.
00:01:14
Speaker
And many of my guests have told me the conversations have felt like therapy.
Helen's Journey to Counselling
00:01:20
Speaker
It's what led me to think about training as a therapist and I'm happy to say that I'm now a fully qualified counsellor.
00:01:27
Speaker
I help my clients with anxiety and depression, loss, grief and bereavement, chronic illness, trauma and relationship issues and especially parents who are finding the teenage years tricky.
00:01:42
Speaker
If you think counselling might help you, you can find me at HelenWills.com. That's HelenWills, W-I-L-L-S w i double ls dot com. I offer a free initial conversation to see if we're a good fit.
00:01:57
Speaker
Now on to series nine and I have some fantastic guests for
Upcoming Podcast Topics
00:02:02
Speaker
you. We're going to talk about what it's like to grow up with a disabled sibling, the teenagers who are embracing a sober adolescence, how to support a child who's questioning their gender or sexuality and teens who are people pleasers.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yes, they might be rule breakers at home, but lots of teens feel under pressure to perform for other people. And they need our help to help them stop, says one of my guests.
Katya Vlahos on Self-Fulfillment
00:02:31
Speaker
Katia Vlahos is a coach and an author of a new book called Uncaged. Raised in a traditional Greek family, Katia's early years were spent trying to please others as the perfect daughter and student. I'm thinking a few of you listening will recognise this description.
00:02:48
Speaker
I do. She often found ways to embrace her rebellious spirit though, including sneaking out at night and driving off into the sunset on the back of her boyfriend's Harley Davidson. Don't recognise that bit. I wish I did.
00:03:02
Speaker
As she grew up, Katya became more weighed down by this good girl persona she she tried to live up to. Until one day, when she was in her 40s, she faced the reality that the life she was living had been designed to make other people happy, not herself.
00:03:19
Speaker
We're going to talk about that and how she's turned that around for herself and what she advises parents do with their own teenagers. Katya, welcome to the podcast.
00:03:31
Speaker
Thank you for having me, Helen. ah No, this is ah this is a topic that I think so many people are going to be interested in.
Rebellion & Personal Growth
00:03:39
Speaker
ah so it's it was a no-brainer for me to to have this conversation with you.
00:03:44
Speaker
ah recognize the good girl thing. That's how I got validation. That's how I got attention. And so that's what I did. And I was doing um ah um was doing it all my life. And I still have a knee jerk that says, do that. And then I've learned to have another voice that kicks in and goes,
00:04:01
Speaker
Is that really what you want to do? Clearly, when you were young, you had that voice because you did those things. it It was a very, very modest voice, right? it would It would just like show up and then go back into hiding. oh okay But yeah, it was there. it was there.
00:04:17
Speaker
um and And I'm glad it it stayed there. And I didn't just rebel in my teens. You know, I rebelled like way later than I should have, right? Because what happens when you don't rebel as much in your teens, it doesn't disappear.
00:04:34
Speaker
and least from my experience, right? It comes out later. Absolutely. I've been there too, but we won't talk about that. Let's talk about your teenage years. What was it like growing up for you? And then what what did you become aware of for yourself as a teenager?
Good Girl Persona & Expectations
00:04:49
Speaker
So, um, I was, yeah, I mean, like you said, i was I was very good. I learned early on, and of course, I didn't realize that until, i like i write in the book in my 40s, that um mean I just learned that I had to i had to excel. And um what you talk about, how you get appreciation and acknowledgement.
00:05:09
Speaker
um my My meditation teacher, David G., has this great expression for it. It was my winning formula, right? it what I realized that if I did that, you know i would get certain things Yeah. that was my method and i need work at the time so i just just stayed with me and and and i never questioned it so i had to be you know good at everything i was the best student i was you know got into you know great university got the great jobs afterwards oh At home, yes, of course I was, you know, I'm sure if you ask my my parents, they'll say that I, you know, it was difficult as a teenager, but really compared to what was going on around me, I really wasn't that difficult.
00:05:53
Speaker
No, I was i was quite, i was understanding and considerate. And and so um also where I grew up ah as a girl, you're you know, you get all these, you know, subtle messages to, you know, you have to self-sacrifice.
00:06:09
Speaker
um You have to put others' needs ahead of your own. You have to, um you know... Be everything to everyone. and and um um Otherwise, you're selfish.
00:06:21
Speaker
oh And given that I was called selfish, you know, quite often, that that was probably the rebellious side showing up. And I was called selfish. Then I would kind of be like, oh, really
Perfectionism, Self-Criticism & Impact
00:06:31
Speaker
shouldn't be like that, right? Yeah, well, I'm guessing being called selfish could trigger a little bit of anger and defiance, right?
00:06:39
Speaker
that what happened for you? Yes. And at the same time, sadly, I owned it, right? I kind of surrendered to that label. What did that look like?
00:06:50
Speaker
Well, you kind of, there's a lot of self-criticism, guess. Like the inner critic is really strong, right? If you do this, you're selfish. If you put your needs ah first, you're selfish if you do something for yourself. Yeah.
00:07:05
Speaker
um ah so so there's always this kind of um second guessing myself or comparing um myself to others um yeah and sounds like some shame yeah exactly exactly that's what it was and I mean, I say that, and of course, I'm not, you know, I'm not angry at my parents or I'm not blaming my parents for that. You know, as parents, we do we do what we can given where we are ah given our our state, of you know, our level of consciousness and and our own baggage.
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah. um but But the outcome was that and I really internalized all these these beliefs about what I needed to do to yeah to be acknowledged and appreciated, to be good, to...
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, to too get people um to pay attention to me and all that. yeah so And it's so easy as parents to do that with kids, right? and And it's not just us, actually, because as soon as our kids go to school, they're being told...
00:08:08
Speaker
They don't have to be perfect, but they have to try their hardest every time they do something. Even that yeah is is an extreme form of um performance anxiety that kicks in. Did I try my hardest? Oh, no, I didn't. Oh, right. Okay, then I'm a bad person.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and And like you said, as parents, we, we often reinforce that. Because we we want our kids to, to do well, parents to be able to live independently to have a good job. And so they've got to be successful in their studies. And we set them up for it right from the beginning.
00:08:47
Speaker
what I mean, I'm jumping right ahead to the bit that I do next and we still haven't finished this bit, but I'm going to do it anyway. well What should we be doing? What is the best way to support our kids to do their best but not feel terrible about themselves when for some reason they they choose not to?
Parental Influence & Work-Life Balance
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, let me preface this by saying ah we are doing our best as parents and there are multitude of ways that we can mess up our kids. And and i you know I think I ticked several boxes here despite best intentions, right? Yeah.
00:09:20
Speaker
And we feel guilty about that as well. So the whole thing is snowball. Yeah. Because if you let go, you'll be like, oh my God, this is going to be even worse if I'm not aware of all the ways. Yeah. Oh, I'm such a bad parent. Yeah.
00:09:33
Speaker
So we need to be alert all the time in our minds. um You know, there's there's what we tell our kids and there's this what we do. And and we know that that what we do is even more powerful. It's like, it's how we behave. if If my kid comes in and sees me at my computer after dinner, ah you know, trying to you know finish something.
00:09:52
Speaker
because I have a deadline or preparing something for the next day. What are they going to, mean, what are they going to think? going think this is okay. Yeah. Right. And I, you know, I can't say I don't do that ever. Yeah.
00:10:04
Speaker
So this is, you know, this is what
Mental Cages & Self-Awareness
00:10:06
Speaker
we're modeling. If, if our kids see us, you know, um, being stressed about work or or being stressed about missing a deadline or um working on weekends i mean all these these you know they're not so little things right so so how can we help that i mean we can start with ourselves and and question our own behavior and our own beliefs in what's required here. and And like you said, oh you know when the voice comes up, it's like, is this is this good for me? but also Is this really mine?
00:10:41
Speaker
like Is this my story? Or is this the remnants of of and well the stuff we've absorbed? and we you know Of course we've moved. Beyond that, but they're still there. are They still, yeah you know, occasionally will show up. I certainly feel that. And I, you know, I wrote the book about it. There are moments when I'm like, you know, are you are you like going back in the cage right now? What's going on?
00:11:03
Speaker
At least we get better at catching ourselves. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um well, we were talking about this before we started recording that it this isn't ah a, a, a realisation, a fit, the work, a fix, and then we're done.
00:11:17
Speaker
This is with us for life. This is who we were trained to be as young people. So we, not by anybody's, as you said, not, but not because it's of anyone's fault, but just the way people are, none of us is perfect. um But we,
00:11:33
Speaker
we we've inherited this way of being so it's with us for life so is it about awareness just noticing what we're doing and it's asking is it serving us and just shifting ourselves a little bit Yeah. so So the part about reflecting um on ourselves is definitely about awareness. And I i say it a lot that you know we have to be constantly alert to potential, I call them cages, but they're you know the ways we limit ourselves that are not really ours, all the ah the external beliefs and patterns we've observed.
00:12:10
Speaker
And i you you you know even if you feel like you're the most uncaged person there is, there's still you know there's still going to be moments in your path where you're going to notice. So better to be alert and to always question and to always ask, you know is this mine? Is this serving me?
00:12:26
Speaker
Am I limiting my myself here for no reason? this aligned with with you know what's important to me, with my values? um So just being constantly aware, I think, really helps.
00:12:40
Speaker
yeah yeah Because it it interrupts this like autopilot process. way of functioning and like you said these are very very deep patterns and beliefs of course it's very hard to get rid of them but that's okay right the point is to to know when they show up and to be able to choose differently because that's in our power yeah making a different choice is in our power and that way we're also showing to our children yeah right how to do it yeah oh yeah think that's what i was trying to say in a much less eloquent way than you just said it's
00:13:13
Speaker
And that's probably because I skipped ahead. So let's get back. um You talked about cages and the book is called Uncaged. Where did that come from? tell Tell us a little bit about the the cages, what they are and and how they what they mean for you. Mm-hmm.
00:13:30
Speaker
So cages, um again, I say cages are in our minds, right? They're ah they're very rarely um external limitations. They're more how we see the world, how we interpret the world, how we, like I said, the winning formulas we have in our minds that you know that that influence how we show up. So ah cages are all the ways in which we limit ourselves, by ourselves.
00:13:52
Speaker
And so the the good news is that we also have the power to to choose differently. as long as we realize what those cages are. and, and and and Yeah, they're very old and very solid.
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And we're able to dismantle them and it and it is possible. Right, I think that's the key because I'm imagining a cage that someone else has got the the lock and the key to, but that's not it, right? That's not it. No, we have the key. We totally have the key. But if you don't know there's a cage around you, what are going to do about it? Okay, right. so So many of us go through life not realizing what the cages are, not realizing when we're on autopilot or, you know,
00:14:36
Speaker
behaving and in in certain patterned ways or or or but you know having certain beliefs that influence our behavior without us even noticing.
Questioning Beliefs & Recognizing Guilt
00:14:46
Speaker
um I mean, i see I see it all the time in in my work. and you know When I ask certain questions and night i I ask people to you know to so identify the belief and then we question the belief and we're like, is this really true? is this do you still believe that? Like, where's this coming from? yes All these kinds of questions are are really useful.
00:15:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm imagining that cages are ah different for different people. What, what, what did, and you, and you've got more than one cagey in. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. like So what did they represent? they're the bars. They're the bars of the cage, right? You can see it as that, There's many bars. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, what were the key ones that stood out for you?
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah. So as we discussed, everything around being good. So, you know, self-sacrifice, you know, being ah kind of false modesty or forced modesty.
00:15:42
Speaker
ah Yeah. not Not prioritizing yourself. um Another very common cage, I think almost everybody has that is is not feeling good enough. Yeah.
00:15:53
Speaker
Right. You know, or smart enough or capable enough or whatever, all the enoughs. are are common cages. um you know i I speak to women's cages very much because because that's my experience. but But since the book came out or since I started talking about this, I've had a lot of men reach out and be like, this really resonates because men have the wrong cages.
00:16:16
Speaker
And maybe maybe they're not as as extreme as as ours, but they're still there. you know there's you know i can think of the cage to always be strong and you know be the one who supports and yeah and ah you know be able to to control your emotions. There's a lot around control and strength and you know all the stereotypes.
00:16:37
Speaker
those ah Those can be very limiting to men as well. So you know i don't want to and of exclude anyone from these. I think we all we only have them. any Any beliefs you you've been raised with? um You have to always work really hard and your best. You have to always you know be the best, excel.
00:17:00
Speaker
again, so many so many. Yeah, not have feelings not cry not not complain. Oh, there's so many. That's such a good one. Yes. you're Sorry.
00:17:11
Speaker
ah Okay, so so I guess the trick is for people to identify what the bars in their cages. um First of all, what what they are rather. um And then and then what do they do about it to escape the cage and be uncaged? I guess I'm going to tell people to read your book. But tell it give us a bit of a flavor sure so the but the book is my story but but there's also you know there's there's a way you do this and it's in its practice and it takes time right it starts with being aware okay this is my this is my list these are the things that i i would you know they don't stir in me right now they don't really belong to me i don't want in my life because they're they're limiting me they're holding me back from from
00:17:54
Speaker
you know, being and achieving what I want and and being aligned with with what's important. um the The next step is, you know, you just notice when they show up, you just notice when they they influence what you do, when you...
00:18:08
Speaker
um I don't know, if you want to go on a weekend with your friends, but you're like, oh, I shouldn't, I don't know, I shouldn't leave ah my family for two days, whatever, you know, I don't know why this came up. But it's like when you feel guilty, you know, guilt is a really good, ah really good indicator, especially for us women, right? When you feel guilty for it or wanting to do something, for considering something. Okay.
00:18:32
Speaker
Why is this happening? What am I telling myself? Good to know, because that was one of my questions was how did you realize that this wasn't serving you, that it wasn't yours, that it was something that had been put on you by external forces and experiences in life, and that you could let it go?
00:18:50
Speaker
ah but guilt is a key thing. it It is a key thing. And I can I can tell you very specific example. i mean, I had a lot of guilt as a parent, because oh because I had this idea of what a good mother does. Right. and You speak your mind language. Exactly, right? So if I would go away for a weekend, that that didn't fit with that okay with that image. And and there's ah there's a scene in the book where you know I talked to my my now husband um before before we were married.
Parental Guilt & External Validation
00:19:27
Speaker
and and he's like oh and i was saying how oh i did this and that that doesn't make me a very good parent especially as you know um i was reflecting on on on my divorce a lot of guilt around that right what am i doing to my children um and then he was like but you're such an amazing parent you're such a good parent and i'm like how do you see that like why and so he started telling me why oh, I hadn't thought about it this way.
00:19:55
Speaker
you know He's like, oh, you're always present with your children. They're secure-based. They always know they can come to you. right It doesn't matter if I go away for the weekend. My kids know that I'm there for them.
00:20:06
Speaker
I'm away, my kids, you know theyre they're they're studying abroad. they They will call me for things where I'm like, I am so far away. I don't know how I can help you, but I'm here for you. Yeah. Right. Well, just another bar in the cage, isn't it? Just not, not being able to see what's good about ourselves, only picking out the things that we can criticize.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, because maybe we'll learn that's how we get better. Right. Maybe we learn that if we tap ourselves on the back, that's not going to help us. It's going to make us lazy. Yeah, we had just have to keep impressing people and being the good girl, like you said. Right.
00:20:46
Speaker
So it's it's i mean it's it's good to see it because it allows us to see it in our children, if that's the case. Sure. It's definitely been the case for me where i've be like, oh, okay, I need to do something here.
00:20:59
Speaker
um Because we don't we don't put pressure on our kids anymore. i think most of us are are aware of what pressure can do, or a lot of us. um But they put pressure on themselves very often. They do.
00:21:09
Speaker
They really do. And that's a tougher one, think. Yeah. Because, you know, you can stop doing, but... Yeah, but I blame myself for that because I must have got it wrong somewhere along the line.
00:21:22
Speaker
I've got two academically very strong kids and and I see them getting very stressed trying to meet deadlines and be the best they can be. And I think, wow, shit, did I create that? And I do have to remind myself, I think this is important for parents to remember.
00:21:37
Speaker
They are also individuals with their own temperaments and their own ways of doing things in the world. And we're going to do some of those things irrespective of how they were parented because it's in their personalities, in their genes.
00:21:50
Speaker
But then that's my fault as well because they've got my genes. Okay, definitely not your fault. I don't think you can control. Isn't it? Maths. yeah But yes, there's there's a part that belongs to us and there's the personality and there's all the, you know, the outside, the the external influence. Oh my God, what we see, you know, these days is is scaring.
00:22:13
Speaker
Yeah, well, they're connected, they're online, they see a lot, but also their teachers are not perfect and their friendships are not perfect and that's normal. yeah yeah and and they'll have to find their way and we'll do our bit right we can do our bit if we're aware of what's going on from from our side but they can't control everything so but there are things we can do uh if we if we see this yeah tell me tell me well i remember um a piece of advice that i thought was was great by um a child psychologist because um
00:22:47
Speaker
um one of my sons, we we were doing some sort of assessment for school and and and we got the message that ah he's putting a lot of pressure on himself. And we're like, okay, what can we do?
Teaching Children Resilience
00:22:58
Speaker
Like, well, you know what really helps is you have one day a week where you try something new and you fail. Like all of us, all of us in the family, we will try something new where we're not like, not something we're super comfortable with, not something we know how to do well, but something we don't know how to do.
00:23:15
Speaker
And that increases the likelihood of us failing. And then, you know, it normalizes failure for them, also teaches them resilience, how to bounce back. Yeah.
00:23:26
Speaker
So it was kind of an artificial, ah hu you know, situation where they feel like they they can, they don't have to be perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's hard to do that at school. You can't tell them, I don't study for this exam. until yeah I think we'd find that really hard to do. I would. oh what What are some of the things you've done?
00:23:47
Speaker
So i i I try to be more vocal about when I mess things up. Right. do yeah And do. Right. And I talk about it. i was like, oh, what did I do here? How did I do So, you know, before maybe I wouldn't have made it such a big deal. Now I can amplify it.
00:24:03
Speaker
um um and um i'm not very good about the you know the not working like the boundaries i need to work on that one like having clear boundaries ah between like okay when i finish work and and when it's like right okay showing your kids that you rest and you prioritize yourself yeah so i i do rest but i'm not i'm definitely not like where i want to be with that so that that would be another one that's one of my well even just admitting that and saying that out loud you know i've still got things that i i'm i'm not perfect at and that's a good one that's okay thank
Modeling Growth Mindset
00:24:37
Speaker
you a i will do that thank you like thank you for my own medicine yes absolutely um yeah so so just
00:24:47
Speaker
showing um also in in in my case my kids have seen how i i i had to so you know i had to reinvent myself and and i talk about that and you know i had i had a very successful first career i had to drop everything and then start over and and really be a beginner and learn and they see me and they see how it's not It's not always easy to build something new and and there's frustration um and there's celebration also.
00:25:17
Speaker
So I'm hoping that that's also a role model of how you're learning and growing, growth mindset, and you can fail and then learn from that evolve and you're not there from that.
00:25:34
Speaker
like you're not there from day one, because you know the other you know the first career, you know they they were young and I was already doing well. They didn't see me and go through the whole process. Anything that shows you um starting and learning and growing, I think is...
00:25:54
Speaker
it's it' a good um but yeah and but yeah yeah that makes sense yeah because they they compare so much to external perfection like you know what you see on on social media they compare people who are already somewhere um they don't always see the you know but what the struggle was and the striving to get there no and the failures and there's ah There's this great podcast. I don't think she runs it anymore, but Elizabeth Day, do you know her? She's British journalist.
00:26:23
Speaker
um And she used to have a podcast called How to Fail. And what she says in the introduction is um because learning how to fail actually means learning how to succeed better. Yes. Yes.
00:26:39
Speaker
Right. because this hands Like figuring out what we did that didn't work just sets us up to do it differently next time. And then eventually you're going to hit the way that does work.
00:26:50
Speaker
That's so true. That's so true. And I like for me, that's so that it really hits home because I was told you know I never failed. right I never failed until my like i'll tell my divorce, really.
00:27:02
Speaker
That was like my biggest failure. i remember i remember it was was I think it was my therapist who told me, ah you never like you don't know how to fail. yeah and That can be scary. and and We don't want our kids to not know how to fail. like like Now when they mess up, I'm like so happy because I know they're learn from it. Yes.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yes, they'll know how to do better and they'll also learn that it's not the end of the world if they don't succeed the first time. I remember someone saying, well, lots of people I've heard say this actually, that sometimes the first time a child fails, and it's not true, but the first time they're aware of failing, is um when they fail their driving test, which happens to a lot of people, right? Not many people pass first time around. I did.
00:27:47
Speaker
um Of course you did. I did too. worst special But my daughter failed her first driving test and it was devastating. She'd always been so good at school. She always got good grades. She did fantastic.
00:28:02
Speaker
But of course, if you go back to the the classic one that everybody recounts is you go back to a a baby learning to crawl and then walk. They didn't succeed the first time. They have failed hundreds of times at learning to walk before they eventually got it.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's why they learned to walk. um we yeah That's the reason. Yeah. I mean, the earlier they fail, the better. But so yeah yeah, I couldn't agree on the drivers. The Travis test is is a really good example.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's a classic. You know, when there's an incident like that, I will be like, so what did you learn? And I'll be like, mom, leave me alone. Stop coaching me. Yay, I'm well done.
00:28:42
Speaker
but fine yeah yeah oh um yeah is there anything else in the book that um that would really that you need to kind of highlight that's worth telling the the listeners or do we are we at the point of saying where do people go get this book tell us the full title So, like, the book is is is in short, and you describe it so eloquently. i think I need to get you to give me your description because I really like it.
00:29:13
Speaker
It's just, like, really gives a really good picture. um it's It's, yeah, how... it's It starts from zero, actually, because I wasn't caged when I was really
Self-Liberation Journey
00:29:23
Speaker
young. And then it shows the process of how I entered the cage, you know, how I internalized all these different patterns. doesn't explain why. It will explain in the end. There's a reason why I did. this There's usually a reason why why we adopt our winning formula. that's why keep so and And it shows how that, you know, that set of of beliefs and patterns really influenced
00:29:46
Speaker
all my choices going forward because it didn't stop at school or at work it was you know was also my first marriage is it was how i did everything yeah in life and my friendships everything and and then it shows okay what was the breaking point or the the turning point uh and and how i decided to you know how realized how i'd taken on so much from the outside and and how i kind of took the leap. and And the way this happens is like, you know, it doesn't have to be like one like giant ball move. It's you take one decision and then you see, oh, okay, like nothing devastating happened. Like I could handle it. Like you said, you know, you fail and you realize it's not the end of the world. yeah You take the decision and then and then you take the next one and then you take the next one in and they build up and and then you build the confidence and then you take bigger and bigger steps and and that's how you get out, right? Then
00:30:39
Speaker
And it's also it's also really, you know, because the cages are in our minds, it's a lot around the mindset of, I can do this. It's my choice, right? I have the choice. Very often we think we're powerless and we get into this this victim mindset. And I was very much a victim for for a long time. Okay. And just realizing that and deciding to not be a victim anymore deciding i'm not gonna blame others anymore for what's happening here i'm gonna own it and i'm good but that also means i can i can get out and i can i can do my thing because i'm owning that as well it's a brave decision isn't it because blaming others is easier and it and it but it's what keeps you
00:31:22
Speaker
shut away locked down stuck yeah completely completely and and it's it's super easy but once you decide like once you see that i don't think you can unsee it don't think you can fall back in that pattern ever again and then you start seeing it in others it gets very irritating actually yeah but but but once you realize you've you've been you've been a victim and and you get out of it the good news is is you don't go back Yeah. Because you've seen how different. Yeah. You take control of all the things that happen to you and and choose how to deal with it. Yeah.
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah. You see what you can control and what you, you know, it's it's also very liberating because you can focus on that and the stuff you can't control, you can let it
Connecting with Katya & Book Information
00:32:05
Speaker
go. Yeah. and ow Yeah. yeah Yeah, no, really good point.
00:32:10
Speaker
So the fault out of the book is uncaged. ah just on kate It's uncaged, a good girl's journey to reinvention. That's it. Yes. I love that bit. You got the good girl this month.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah. And it's available everywhere. It's a paperback. It came out 1st of October. it's ah Right now, if you go on like the major distributors, I would recommend the paperback ok um because it's it gets to you faster. We've had a couple issues with a hardcover. Hardcover is very beautiful. by the paper and i would I would go for the paperback and and there's of course the e-book as well for people who want to read on paperback.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah. On a stream. Yeah. Yeah. Both are available. Amazon. Yeah. yeah I don't know. Okay. Cool. i put so I will put links in the show notes. And is there anywhere that people can connect with you if they want to follow along with more of your hints and tips?
00:33:12
Speaker
Absolutely. um i am very active on LinkedIn, so please connect with me, Katia Vlahos, very easy. um My website is always a good place, like, or everything. yeah so it's katiavlahos.com, again, very easy, one word.
00:33:27
Speaker
Katia Vlahos, uncaged.net is the website of the book. But if you go to my website, you'll find also the link to the book and everything is there. Perfect. Yeah, and I'm also on Instagram.
00:33:39
Speaker
Okay. Same, same handle. Katia.Vlajos. Again, very easy. So all these places, Kat miss me. Perfect. I will put links for that in the show notes for all those, all those things. um So when you finish listening, just scroll down and hit the links.
00:33:55
Speaker
Katja, it's been really, really fun talking to you. i Yeah, I need to read the book. I'm kind of there, but i am yeah, never hurts to have a refresh. Oh, I'm so glad. Yes, yes, please do. i'll Make sure you have time because people tell me they can't stop and then they can't sleep.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine. It's a page turner. and What can I say? I didn't know that, but people are saying that. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. well Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Love love the conversation.
Listener Interaction & Future Topics
00:34:24
Speaker
Thank Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please give it a rating on your podcast app. And if you know someone who might benefit from listening, do share it with them.
00:34:37
Speaker
It also means a lot when you give me feedback. So if you have comments or suggestions for another episode or know someone who'd like to tell their story on the Teenage Kicks podcast, do you get in touch at helen at helenwills.com or come and find me on my blog, actuallymommy.co.uk.
00:34:56
Speaker
Head over there now for more articles on the joys, and there are many, of parenting a teenager. Bye for now.