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Ep. 101: Smart strategies for improving communication with your teenager
217 Plays1 month ago
TW: Self-harm
Ad: This episode is sponsored by training provider Flourish, and my guest today is an expert in supporting teenagers with the emotional challenges that often come with adolescence. Charlotte Gordon is a nationally recognised youth worker and trainer who has deep expertise in addressing anxiety, depression and distress, and empowers those who work with teenagers to have the practical life skills they need to help young people develop emotional resilience and well-being. Her approaches are especially effective in supporting neurodiverse young people.
As a single mother, Charlotte founded KIP Education to reach the young people who often fall through the cracks in traditional educational settings. Her programmes aim to cultivate self-awareness, mindfulness, critical thinking, communication skills and social empathy, empowering young people to manage stress and develop a strong sense of social consciousness and human values.
She talks to us about a parenting course that offers practical advice and the opportunity to improve our knowledge around mental health, wellbeing and safety. The Flourish Empowered parenting course bundle covers topics such as vaping, gang violence and supporting LGBTQIA+ children. Listeners can get a 15% discount on the course by using code KICKS15 at checkout.
USEFUL LINKS
- Flourish Empowered Parenting Course Bundle - used code KICKS15
- Flourish's Empowered Parenting courses bundle offers practical advice and the chance to test and improve your knowledge, helping you address challenges around mental health, wellbeing and safety. It also covers specialist topics such as vaping, gang violence and supporting LGBTQIA+ children. Written by child development and education specialists, these courses empower you to approach modern parenting with confidence. Each course lasts around 30 minutes and can be taken in your own time, with our without your child.
- Find out more about Charlotte at Kip Education.
More teenage parenting from Helen Wills
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please email helen@actuallymummy.co.uk.
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Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
Episode produced by Michael J Cunningham
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Transcript
What is Empathy?
00:00:00
Speaker
I think sometimes people think empathy is like putting ourselves in someone's shoes. you know i'm in it I know what it's like, I'm right, I get it. You know you you were abused and I understand and that must be awful. But I can't really like put myself in your shoes because I still got my shoes on. So it's dangerous for me to try and assume that my understanding of your experience will be the same, right?
Introduction to Season 9
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome to Season 9 of the Teenage Kicks Podcast. I'm your host, writer and psychotherapist Helen Wills. Can you believe it? When I started this podcast, there was nothing much online for parents about teenage mental health. Still less about how to cope with our own anxieties when our teenagers are going through difficult stuff.
00:00:55
Speaker
Since then, I've spoken to over 100 guests about struggles they had in their teenage years, how they've coped since, and the advice they'd offer to young adults and their parents today.
Journey to Counseling
00:01:07
Speaker
We've talked about all the difficult things, from anxiety, to being diagnosed with an illness, or getting kicked out of school. Spoiler alert, it all involves a bit of anxiety. And many of my guests have told me the conversations have felt like therapy.
00:01:25
Speaker
It's what led me to think about training as a therapist and I'm happy to say that I'm now a fully qualified counsellor. I help my clients with anxiety and depression, lost grief and bereavement, chronic illness, trauma and relationship issues and especially parents who are finding the teenage years tricky.
00:01:48
Speaker
If you think counselling might help you, you can find me at HelenWills.com. That's Helen Wills W I double L S dot com. I offer a free initial conversation to see if we're a good fit.
00:02:03
Speaker
Now, on to Series 9, and I have some fantastic guests for you.
Series Themes and Guests
00:02:08
Speaker
We're going to talk about what it's like to grow up with a disabled sibling, the teenagers who are embracing a sober adolescent, how to support a child who's questioning their gender or sexuality, and teens who are people pleasers.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yes, they might be rule breakers at home, but lots of teens feel under pressure to perform for other people. And they need our help to help them stop, says one of my guests. I don't know about you, but sometimes, and especially when I read the news, I feel a bit despondent about my ability to support kids with the kinds of things they're coming into contact with these days, things that weren't even on my radar when I was a teenager.
00:02:53
Speaker
A few of the same worries, this episode is for you. This episode is sponsored by training provider Flourish and my guest today is an expert in supporting teenagers with the emotional challenges that often come with adolescence.
Charlotte Gordon and KIPP Education
00:03:09
Speaker
Charlotte Gordon is a nationally recognised youth worker and trainer who has deep expertise in addressing anxiety, depression and distress and empowers those who work with teenagers to have the practical life skills they need to help young people develop emotional resilience and wellbeing. Her approaches are especially effective in supporting neurodiverse young people.
00:03:35
Speaker
As a single mother, Charlotte founded KIPP Education to reach the young people who often fall through the cracks in traditional educational settings. Her programs aim to cultivate self-awareness, mindfulness, critical thinking, communication skills and social empathy, empowering young people to manage stress and develop a strong sense of social consciousness and human values.
00:04:01
Speaker
Charlotte's going to talk to us today about a parenting course that offers practical advice and the opportunity to improve our knowledge around mental health, wellbeing and safety. The Flourish Empowered Parenting Course Bundle covers topics such as vaping, gang violence and supporting LGBTQIA plus children. All things which just were an issue but I didn't know it and we didn't know it when I was 15.
00:04:30
Speaker
She also has a great discount code just for Teenage Kicks listeners. But first, in the great tradition of this podcast, we're not going to let her get away with it. I'm going to ask Charlotte about her own teenage years.
Teenage Coping Mechanisms
00:04:44
Speaker
Charlotte, welcome to the podcast.
00:04:46
Speaker
Hi, thank you for having me, Helen. Appreciate it. Well, I'm really excited to hear your expertise because all of us parents of teenagers are worried about the things that they worry about and we're worried about them because they're worrying. And I think you're going to give us some tips and ideas on how we can navigate that because it's constant, right?
00:05:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. um it's But it's not as hard as I think we think it is. um And probably worrying isn't and the best option in there in the grand scheme of everything. We probably do have a lot of the tools at at our disposal. We're definitely more tools today than we had, same one with you talking about when we were 15. There definitely was far less tools going on. So we do have a lot ah in our in our reach at the moment.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, um I mean, mental health wasn't even on my radar when I was younger, and I really doubt it was on my parents' radar. So as you say, we are in a we are in a more accepting place of the fact that these anxieties, this mental health um topic is needs to be talked about. And I think although a lot of young people are quite averse to talking about their feelings, especially with their parents,
00:06:06
Speaker
um we they a lot of them do they do the importance of taking care of their mental health, right? Before we get into it though, I want to ask you, Charlotte, what was it like growing up for you? i'm Oh, that's a really good question. And I think about it a lot. So and i yeah I was diagnosed with ADHD as an a adult, funnily enough off the back of my my son who's going to be 15 tomorrow i off the back of his ah diagnosis. And that I think looking back now at my teenage years, I can see that it was a lot of ADHD stuff going on, undying those ADHD stuff going on. evan But I had no idea, you know, so at that time, I just thought,
00:06:58
Speaker
I'm miserable, I'm un unhappy, pay I don't know why. Why is everyone happy? Why is everybody, you know, got a nice appearance, got a nice set, you know, works harder, can concentrate better, can do this better, can do that better, looks better, you know, all these that are part of the yeah the dieting generation as well. So there was all that sort of pressure as well. And and that it was,
00:07:23
Speaker
I wouldn't go back to it if you paid me and maybe if you paid me, but I wouldn't go back to it because it was really, really rubbish for me. I was really miserable, or genuinely miserable, like almost walking around with a black cloud permanently. So I had quite
The Need for Understanding in Parenting
00:07:42
Speaker
a negative and time growing up. and I didn't feel like I was good enough from a very early age and that triggered a load of unhelpful coping ah mechanisms, which when you're nine and you decide to cope, then yeah, it makes it very, very difficult. Coping when you're nine years old, you come up with really un unhelpful coping skills like harming yourself,
00:08:17
Speaker
and like eating disorders, like drugs, choosing bad friendships. When you're choosing your bad friendships and then you move on to romantic relationships, you choose really badly there as well. And all really cliche stuff. But it was really awful, and it really awful for me. But when I sort of that think about what's brought me to today, it was all of that. So for me, a lot of like what I went through as a young person,
00:08:46
Speaker
I didn't want other young people to go through and that's a lot of the narrative of what others are now talking about today but I've been on this for you know 20 odd years trying to get everybody to hear that The bottom line for everybody is mental health. The reasons around drug use is mental health. The reasons around people feeling disconnected is mental health. You know, the consumer, it's all mental health stuff. and But yeah, as a young person, I mostly didn't know what Kale was as a young person. I didn't know what Asparagus was.
00:09:25
Speaker
That was just like fancy food, you know? So we had no idea about diet, we had no idea really how to look after ourselves. So we turned to things like drugs and promiscuousness and just that general bad now, bad what I now see is as bad behavior, as behavior that I guess teenagers today are not always inking in the same space. I'm not saying though I didn't have always childhood and teens age. I really have a good time just putting it out there. you know Being dysfunctional is that has its moments for sure.
00:10:01
Speaker
but But yeah, it was dark. It was really, really dark. And yeah, and I think when you're home in yourself, there's a little shame that goes with it. It gets you in a really good cycle. um Yeah, which is really quite sad. and And I wish I'd sort of articulated it at the time. I think I would have got a yeah a lot more from the people around me, um but because I couldn't articulate it, I just was really prickly and difficult and it just made it really hard for adults to see that I was actually unhappy. I think they just thought I was horrid, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
Oh I can relate to so much of what you're saying and um I really love that you identify the in in in air quotes poor behaviour, difficult behaviour, horridness as coping strategies because that makes complete sense to me if you're if you're not feeling able to express your feelings and have them validated and get your ne emotional needs met, then we it's normal to reach out for coping strategies. And you've identified pretty much all of the coping strategies, the over-consuming,
00:11:28
Speaker
it's is It's a classic one that so many of us deal with, and I know I can be prone to that, and I ah notice it when it's happening. I think, hang on, okay, what am I not looking at here? Because this is me avoiding something. um And the the promiscuity you mentioned, that was that was so me in my early 20s. I was like, this is how I get attention and love.
00:11:51
Speaker
And of course it wasn't, and I was always going to fall flat on my face with that. But what I love is that we can talk to young people about this today. It doesn't faze them. If my mum and dad had started talking to me about overconsumption and um promiscuity and the the wrong kind of boyfriends, I would have just been, ah excuse me, Kevin and Perry here, get out of my life.
00:12:18
Speaker
And I know there is a tendency for teenagers to do that. Still, they really have to separate from their parents. They don't want us meddling in their stuff. But it's more on the agenda. It's more recognized as a coping strategy, as you've labeled, you've correctly named it. And so there's more chance so that it will get talked about and addressed rather than buried and left a fester until we're in our 40s and 50s to figure out and fix.
00:12:47
Speaker
how How was it for you when you finally realised that all of these things, all of that history was kind of a cry for help? I don't want to over dramatise it, but a coping strategy.
Empathy in Parenting
00:13:02
Speaker
Well, I definitely happened on a therapist's chair. OK. And I like definitely cried. I definitely cried about it. um Yeah, it was really intense, you know, because she was like, it's your, that's your child, you know, like, she didn't know what else to do. And so she did what she needed to do to survive. And I think that's like a really useful thing for parents to even
00:13:32
Speaker
process harming behaviours as survival rather than, I think, you know, I do a lot of ah conversations with the professionals and parents around self-harm and eating disorders and they can't get their head around it because it feels so No, there's no joy. It's not like the idea maybe you're going to go out and take drugs and you might have a good time when you do that. And then it might lead to something negative. Homing just seems like homing, right? So, parents tend to freak out and, you know, blood and stuff, you know, all of these things freak parents out. Even if babies hurting themselves.
00:14:12
Speaker
And that when you were actually look at the behavior as communication, the communication is, I don't know how to handle what is going on right now. I'm really and struggling. i And I think that is the bit that we know now ah with our own children. I think, you know, like my kids might do something wrong. I'm not going to being in a mood with them for a week about it. And like, you know, I think, and I've decided they're wrong. And yeah I never think that. I just think you did something wrong, but you're not wrong. You know, and I'm upset now that I'm not going to be upset ever. And it changes nothing on how much I care and love you. You did something wrong, you know, to say.
00:14:56
Speaker
but we would would discuss it and move on. Whereas and know with my parents, it was I was always just a bit too much for everybody. and And so I was always trying to but be less, but Oh my God. Yeah, I just do yeah you know that i guess it's that old age concept of belonging and fitting in. And I don't think I really felt like I belonged anywhere, but I was desperately trying to sit in. And when you're trying to sit in, you end up and you feeling a bit further away from where you're trying to belong. So it's like a double edged sword. But yeah, I guess you know when you're trying to fit in, no one really cares.
00:15:40
Speaker
who you are or what you are. i ah So it's all, ah yeah, belonging. And I think when I started like taking drugs, I was like, yeah, I belong here, right? And in fact, in my space, I know who I am, I can see, you know, all of you like at school, you think I'm like the druggie at school, right? But that's, I have a, i have I am something, I am a person at this point. um And there's something very interesting in Yeah, how how we try to fit in or where we think we're fitting in or not. And that real belonging, you can't beat belonging. You can't beat that feeling of when you really belong.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's it's biological, isn't it? we from If you think back to, I've talked about this before, early caveman days when belonging actually meant survival. If you didn't belong, you were probably going to get eaten by something because you weren't part of the tribe, you were out on your own, or out on your own man can't survive alone.
00:16:47
Speaker
and so it's a primal need and if that primal need is not met then you just feel wrong completely and I was just struck when you said um I was too much and I was always trying to be less And that gave me a bit of a goosebump moment because that's just heartbreaking for anyone, but really for a child to be trying to be less less of a person than who they really are. And that's I'm assuming you wouldn't blame your parents for that. it was It's the way that society was operating, it's the fact that we didn't have mental health on the agenda.
00:17:29
Speaker
What do you think you needed? Had you known how to ask for it back then? Oh, that's a great question. I probably needed less judgement. There was a lot of judgement going on, a lot of perceived judgement maybe as well. and And that made me judge myself even more than I was already judging myself because I think it's natural that you do judge. um yeah i all forgiveness in
00:18:00
Speaker
aie whatever, the things that I was... I mean, I pretty much had a secret life in my teens. I had to have my stomach pumped when I was about 17, right? And I'll never forget it because my mum came to the hospital and I told her everything. I decided, like, I was just going to tell her all the drugs I'd ever tried and taken, Yeah, and all and I was on, like, this mission. forgiveness. So I just thought, I'll tell her all of that.
00:18:28
Speaker
And I just remember my mum sobbing next to me. It was a complete and utter shock. She just wasn't aware of any of it. But I made it that way.
00:18:40
Speaker
you you know You're not interested in the real me. You're only interested in the academic side, which I'm failing miserably at. I'm just getting worse and worse at that. So i'm not I'm less of a person there.
00:18:57
Speaker
and I was quite a tomboy, what they call a tomboy, I don't like it as an expression, I don't think it's helpful personally, but and I was a tomboy and I think my mum wanted like a really girly girl, so she was always thinking that, so I didn't sit in there, but my mum really loves
Understanding ADHD and School Critique
00:19:16
Speaker
me, you know, and my mum really loves me then as well, and as an adult I can see that, you know, and also I can see all of that, so yeah, I think I would have liked a bit more patience. I would have liked time. um So all things that are free. and yeah and even like i mean I sometimes pretend I'm interested in my kids' stuff because I love them so much.
00:19:41
Speaker
yeah you know i i i not you notice written what you whatever I love and I've got time for you. I've always got time for you. And i yeah, I think that there there's ah there's a lot of us like that now and parents like that. he Yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker
didn't get it. I'm probably still doing it all wrong ah in some ways, but immunised. But I do think that what you said it before about being able to talk about stuff with your children and have those like important conversations Yeah, I feel like I'm in a space with my children where they don't tell me everything, I'm sure. And they probably have their secrets and shame like everybody. But and we do talk a lot and we have, but I mean, I've had some amazing, I'm so, like, honoured, gifted by some of the information my kids have given me. and
00:20:43
Speaker
Yeah, and this' and I think um I've really helped and I've asked them, my son's like, his wife, I'm going to say he's about 10, 15 tomorrow. He started getting into all this GCSE stuff. And I'm saying to him, you know, are you all right? Any subject that you are stressed about, you've got your wording, you've got your revision ideas, like, are you freaking out? Tell me, because I'm here for you. And I think it was just assumed when we were growing up that we would learn how to learn. And that by the time we reached 15, you knew how to learn. So if you knew how to learn,
00:21:21
Speaker
then you could revise, you could do all of this. I had no clue. I was like, what more into lessons? Like, high half the time, but also just like very, and not really having a clue. What?
00:21:35
Speaker
what to do and how to do it. I missed lots of points and then you missed it. I think I would have liked a lot more support at school. I have one teacher who really had my back and the majority of the teachers just, it was just like an eye roll thing, you know, they just found me.
00:21:53
Speaker
um the oh man um I don't even know where to start with some of that because I'm nodding my head so much and long way and I think the thing that stood out for me in everything you said there is that by 15 you're supposed to know what you're doing.
00:22:13
Speaker
15 is still so young. I mean we won't even talk about how the brain isn't even fully developed until 10 years later but that's a kind of well accepted fact now. They still need us even if they're telling us they don't and they don't want us.
00:22:30
Speaker
how it's What's really hard is for parents to get in there and cope with their own stress whilst this is all happening. Because if we go right back to the beginning of this podcast, we talked about how stressful it is for parents to know how to support their kids, especially when their kids seem to not want them to. I really like what you said about being interested in the stuff they're interested in and my take on that is that some of the stuff they're interested in I could not care less about. It bores me senseless. I don't see the point
00:23:08
Speaker
However, I'm interested in their thought processes and what and who they are and what they're interested in. So I try to spin it to, okay, I really don't get this video, but I really want to know why you do.
00:23:25
Speaker
and that'll teach me something about you and that'll bring our relationship a bit closer and that'll pay off in 10 years time when you're 25 and you're actually adult or you're bringing your toddlers home to me because we've got that strong relationship. um well I mean that's just my nugget but what What do you say to parents who just find the whole thing so stressful? Maybe they're time poor, they find it really impossible to connect with their kids because that's what I hear a lot. Parents who desperately want to connect with their kids and really struggle and especially when they're neurodiverse, I mean that's your, you've got an area of expertise there. What do you say to those parents? How can we help them?
00:24:12
Speaker
Oh my God, there's so much. yeah And also like we'll talk about neurodiversity as well. Like everybody's neurodiversity is quite different as well. and it's it said They're displayed very differently, right? So and that I guess it's dealing with what yeah what you've got in front of you. So I'm ADHD, my son's ADHD, my daughter is ADHD and ASD, and there's there's other ASD in my family as well, and in my husband's family. is so
00:24:49
Speaker
It's really all around me.
Communication and Empowerment in Parenting
00:24:51
Speaker
and I have lots of sort of thought processes when it comes to like parenting. So I guess like my first thing is always like small conversations just answer what they're asking. So it doesn't have to be like a ah whole sit down. like you know i i always I always use the story. at soette I don't know if you like, when you go through this experience, like when your kids are young and they just like come in and out of the toilet, right? So we we only have one toilet. So there's just like, that's it. You know, if you're using and someone wants to brush their teeth or someone's having a shower, it's just tough. You've got to all just that survive, right?
00:25:33
Speaker
So I was one of those days and they I am on the toilet and my period seemed to just catch me by surprise and my son happened to walk in at the exact moment. when He was five years old and he walks in and I go, oh, like that because I'm shocked that I'm bleeding because I was like, oh, Mummy, you're bleeding. And I'm thinking, oh, right, this is my moment. You know, I can't fluff this up. I have to be like,
00:26:01
Speaker
you know, I teach this, I'm, this is my child, like, I don't want to lose this teachable moment, right? Say yes, I am bleeding, right? So mommy, does it hurt? No, that might not have been true, but I was all right, was it? Fine, right? So I said, right, I said, I said, yeah, that's just part of what women go through. And this just means that I can have babies. And it's kind of cool, really. And they're He went, oh, okay. And off he went. And that was literally the end of the conversation. We were able to talk about it again. I didn't have to say to him, we look on the toilet, go, go away, go away. That's what some of us freak out because you don't have the answers. Actually, like we don't need to have a big conversation about that time. We think you don't really care. You're only really asking why am I bleeding?
00:26:55
Speaker
And now I'm telling you, and that's the end of it. And funnily enough, that actually put me in a space where when my children come in, and I'm in that sort of situation, I'll just say, look, mommy's got a period, give me as give me a bit of space, off you go, you know, come back.
00:27:11
Speaker
How many times are you respecting me for it? I mean, there's nothing weird or icky or gross. It's all just, it's all good stuff. And I think having those conversations with the little, little bits have actually meant that they've come back to me and asked me, I know my son asked me to so many questions around sexual relationships, particularly in that sort of year six, year seven, when they were having all those lessons, he was just coming back to me and be like, I remember one time he asked me, what did he ask me? what oh yeah What's wanking? I thought, well, you know, that's where you might touch yourself and
00:27:54
Speaker
and it's meant to feel good, you know, somebody would hurt some people down. And they thought, okay, I thought it was that. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was that. And he's like hearing conversations. Yeah, he's hearing conversations with his friends. And he's coming back to me as some sort of oracle to give him the answer.
00:28:15
Speaker
But honestly, I'm so proud of that. I feel so honored that I'm getting that information because actually, when I was his age, I had like children's Britannica. I had like three lines to look up about sex and was like nothing. And it was basically like some rubbish magazine or your mate who can naturally have any, but was like going on like she'd done everything.
Building Connections with Teenagers
00:28:39
Speaker
And he just it. He was so confident.
00:28:42
Speaker
So it was, I think a lot of that and lot of the things that we could be doing with our children about having yeah that and just being there is is a big thing for them. and But also that idea of you know even if you do the thing that i told you not to do even if you do do that and you get yourself in trouble i still got you and i'm coming and you call me it doesn't come and get you it's it's all good i'll come and get you i'll come get your friend i'll come get any of you if something goes wrong i am a grown-up and i'm here for you i am one of your trusted
00:29:21
Speaker
oh And I hope, you know, yeah knowing that you've got all these trusted adults, that community idea, there are trusted adults all around our children. And I don't care who my children speak to, whether it's me, whether it's my best friend, whether it's, there you know, this auntie or whoever, these are all people who Can you scaffold you and guide you? Yeah, I think it's sad. I don't think it's as difficult as we think it is. Right. I think sometimes parents expect funny are quite big.
00:29:55
Speaker
And maybe they think that their child should tell them everything because when they were two, they told them everything. But you know there there is nobody who knows everything about everybody. There's nobody who knows everything about you, Helen. you know You've got your secrets and shame like everybody else. There is no one person who's going to know everything about you. So therefore, there is no one person who you're going to know everything about. yeah And that includes your kids.
00:30:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And that's okay. And it's being okay with that. And I think, you know, you go on full circle. I think what you're what you're saying is ah it doesn't have to be as scary as we think sometimes it is as parents. We need to stay curious about their lives because they're different to what our lives were like growing up. And when they are ah giving us um a signal that they want some communication or they want some answers we should just answer those things in the same way we would have when they're little on a need to know basis they they want to know this they don't want the lecture they don't want any more stuff they don't want our theories on the world which is what
00:31:06
Speaker
I'm guilty of doing sometimes when if my if my child if my children are in the mood to speak to you I'm like right this is my opportunity. I'm going to tell them everything that I think they should be doing with their lives and then I just kind of screech to a halt and go, you don't want to hear that. They just asked how to handle this particular issue they've got at school and whether I had an opinion on it but they don't actually want me to follow up with them and check whether they did it my way or not.
00:31:30
Speaker
And if we if we keep that kind of communication going with them, then it's an evolution of a supportive relationship like the one you just described. And we have to be we have to trust ourselves we can do it and be patient with them that they will they They will come back to us for more as and when they need it and then trust them that when they're not coming back to us, often it's because they are finding the support else elsewhere. They are figuring out how to do these things themselves, which they have to do. They have to grow up and be independent adults. There's always that little worry.
00:32:07
Speaker
that they're finding support elsewhere with ah the the people who take the drugs and they found their people there. And ah we have to be mindful of that as long as we let the communication channels open and we're accepting and and not judgmental. I think you're saying that we've got a good chance of it working out OK.
00:32:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think that is what I'm saying actually. A lot of what you just said actually really does make sense to me. Like the idea of not necessarily, I may not have experienced what it's like to be a young person in today's modern world, but I don't need to look at currently there's like 900 odd drugs available to people in the UK, right? So it's huge, huge amount.
00:33:00
Speaker
um like Now, I am not trying every single drug. I don't know everything about every single drug. I worked as a drug worker for 12 years with young people. say And I still don't know everything about drugs. But I do know a lot about empathybas empathy. And I think understanding real empathy is a great way of listening. And I think sometimes people think empathy is like putting ourselves in
Practical Parenting Advice
00:33:26
Speaker
someone's shoes. you know i'm in it I know what it's like. I'm right. I get it. You know you would you were abused and I understand and that must be awful. But I can't really like put myself in your shoes because I still got my shoes on. So it's dangerous for me to try and assume that
00:33:45
Speaker
My understanding of your experience will be the same, right? So for me, empathy is the feeling that that person is feeling. And the feeling tends to be like a feeling of like a number, maybe of 10 different feelings that we've all felt as humans. And like I can get down with that feeling. I get it. You're really sad right now. I'm not going to come in and try and fix it.
00:34:10
Speaker
I just hear you feel really sad and I know what sad feels like and I'm going to sit with you and I feel I'm so sorry you feel sad you must feel sad because yeah anybody would feel sad in this position and I get it and yeah when we have our moment to feel sad, we move on. right But if I'm not even validated and allowed to have my moment, then samena i'm ah I'm useless. you know i'm I'm just burying it. I'm taking drugs. I'm harming myself. I'm burying someone else. im you know is Who knows where I'm going to take it? and Yes, I think that would be a really top tip for parents is to
00:34:53
Speaker
really empathize like to get sick saying like fixing come on a conversation anyway it should be a shared goal and you shouldn't be the one deciding on the goals and you need to have the same agenda.
00:35:09
Speaker
as your child so you don't have an agenda clash and then it's all going to make a bit more sense. and for that know Every child is is different. that I'm currently paying my son £5 to go to the after school homework club, right?
00:35:28
Speaker
yeah He's refusing to go. He said, but I will go if you're going to give me five pounds. I was like, do you know what? Like, if that's how you roll, then I just want you to go to the homework club. I'm really worried you're not doing enough homework. ah I don't want to say all of that. So I'm like, look, I'll pay you. It's like work. You go to work. There you go. And yeah, only five pounds. Yeah, only five pounds. Like just go. Right.
00:35:55
Speaker
but You have to think about what works for your child as well, right? So, you know, sometimes it is yeah it things work for them. Some mean children don't work by reward. Some children know oh are happy to do things. I know they don't live in my house, but they're happy to do things just because want you to. Yeah, I've heard about these children. You know, mommy wants me to do that.
00:36:20
Speaker
to make mummy happy that my children are not those children I've talked and but yeah if that's how you run if that's your I think all of it is great I think praise is great I think noticing it's all great you know yeah yeah my mum was really so like academics and I had so many other talents I was really musical really creative really good at sport and I just not praised that You get praise like one day a year, you get praise for the talent show, praise at sports day, and then you spend the rest of the year in trouble, like constantly moderating, it's all going wrong, right? And I don't think that that's, I don't think that that has changed in schools. I really don't. That's what worries me. I'll just say something that interesting, right? So my, well, in the last year, we put my daughter through the yeah
00:37:13
Speaker
the the the the autism and the ADHD assessment, right? I was really fascinated how they did the ADHD assessment in particular, and because what they do is they get the child really bored and then they see how they behave,
KIPP Education and Resources
00:37:29
Speaker
right? And if they act out, we can see the ADHD behavior, right? So to me, that is school. Put me in a school, it's really boring,
00:37:43
Speaker
And now you're expecting me to conform. but I'm so bored. i'm so You're so not making it interesting enough for me. You totally haven't got my learning style. I'm i'm a problem in your room already. So i'm I don't feel welcome. him I don't feel like you want me there. So I'm automatically going to start trying to make it more enjoyable for myself.
00:38:07
Speaker
In doing that, I become disruptive, I become a problem, right? Maybe I'm going to ask too many questions. Maybe I'm going to do stupid stuff. But yeah, I don't think it's coincidental that 80% of young boys in prisons are diagnosed with ADHD. I think that is a huge, a hugely obvious problem that is is systemic. like You can see where it's coming from. you can We need to tackle how we are dealing with
00:38:39
Speaker
all young people in school and how we're not making learning fun, accessible. I ah pride myself on everything we do in schools being fun. And even even that the tough stuff, if we do a lesson on FGM.
00:38:56
Speaker
It's a fun lesson. I still make the most of it. It's a really sad topic and it's really heavy, but you know, we have a good time and, and everybody's engaged. Yeah. Um, you know, I've found like this whole, um, we still haven't changed that system. It's major. It's a problem. And, and it's fast forward. Like you said, it's, uh,
00:39:20
Speaker
everybody who ends up on a therapist's chair is talking about what happened exactly at that exact time. In fact, there is that period of time. So that period of time actually will shape your whole life moving forward, your whole trajectory, like your relationships, all of your arguments, your everything. And we're just not, we're were just tinkered, we're touching it, the idea of mental health and your,
00:39:48
Speaker
But we're really not taking it as seriously as we could be, in my opinion. a oh Charlotte, you brought us really nicely around to what what it is that you do because you work with ah with professionals to teach them the skills to do this for children, right? But though but the the thing you've done with Flourish is um is aimed at parents, I think. So ah you can you can you tell us a little bit about
00:40:20
Speaker
what that bundle of tools and learning resources is and how it works for for for parents and what the goal is and how it helps. Yeah, so the courses that I've been part of putting together with Flourish and and it's been a real labour of love. I've really enjoyed putting it together and i I know that we've had some fantastic feedback from parents and just this idea that
00:40:51
Speaker
maintaining a rapport with young people. It's not just if you're a ah social worker or like we all need to be maintaining our rapport with young people. When we maintain a rapport, young people come back and have another conversation with us, right? So, I don't know, like, let's say you have a sex education lesson at school. If your parents don't know, your carers don't know that you have this lesson.
00:41:17
Speaker
then they're not going to talk about it with you later, like they should know the same. But that when when you come home, you go, oh, you had that lesson about puberty. What was that like? That must have been, that you know, I always love talking with my kids about like, ah my but When my daughter was like four, she used to tell us about all the people used to fart in her lesson. She'd be like, oh, man, it's fun farting and we all laugh. Let's find all this, like, it's great. I want to hear what happens in your lesson and how people react, right? And the parenting bundle is very similar. It's got that you sit down with your child and you pick a topic. yeah there's there's a There's numerous topics and um we're adding more topics as well. It's definitely not like the full
00:42:02
Speaker
the full thing. Yeah, it's still, and but it's it's brilliant. So we're looking at all different things like and how how we work with our children online, just even the idea that we're giving children phones. And to me, I just look at the internet a bit like, I don't know,
00:42:20
Speaker
Bangkok market, right? Now I wouldn't drop my kid off in Bangkok market and say, here, navigate yourself. Because, you know, like maybe you're looking at, I don't know, you're looking at this, and then the next thing you're like, here you're at a sex show. Like, that's the same internet, right? One minute I'm looking at this, and the next minute I'm here, and I don't know what I'm looking at. We shouldn't be dropping our kids off.
00:42:46
Speaker
in that space without allowing them to navigate it with us right so that these courses give you that so it's it's not just that with the internet but it's looking at eating disorders it's looking at mental health and stress and just how we build those positive relationships with young people there's some stuff about self-harm and their being sound stress and ah how we ah talk about ah gender and sexuality. And I mean, this is a massive topic already, you know?
Technology and Parenting
00:43:21
Speaker
Things like violence and things like that, and just like having all the conversations. So you can sit down and do these courses. They're like 30 minutes long and they're all interactive. and I've used all the tools that
00:43:37
Speaker
I use when I'm working with young people. And like I said, I'm pride myself on it being engaging, passionate, like you're going to learn something. I don't want to just I don't want to talk about the boring lecture. I want the juicy bit because that's what young people want. They only want the juicy bit. You know, so you speak to like, for example, you speak to young people about cannabis teenagers they using cannabis.
00:44:04
Speaker
you say look if you use cannabis you'll get psychosis and you'll get criminal record and you won't be able to go to America and young person will just go and want to go to America. up Yeah. That's the information. You've just killed it there and then and not only have you killed it, they're not coming back to you to ask you any more questions. It's over. They're going, they're going to their mate who doesn't have psychosis, who is taking cannabis and is having a great time because that's the conversation they want to have. So, they want to know the good, they want to know the bad, they want to know the whole picture and
00:44:37
Speaker
I think these parenting bundles give you that, they give you that time to sit with your child, have a discussion, have a debate, go through your stuff, maybe I'm going to answer questions, maybe you're going to answer questions, maybe you're going to know more, maybe let's see, maybe I can learn a bit, you know that idea of things were different in my day, right? And I never thought I would ever say things were different in my day, but things were seriously different in my day, for sure, right? Yeah, so tell me what it's like, tell me what the modern world's like worrying tonight, you know? what is that Is that accurate? you know is Is that what everybody is? there Is everybody vaping? No, everybody isn't vaping. And there's a lot of that in the courses as well, just that,
00:45:21
Speaker
real understanding of what social norms are and what is actually happening. I think sometimes we can be in our own we we be in our own bubble where we think that yeah all young people are in gangs because my old husband's in a gang and I only see these gang members, so I just think everyone's in gangs. My kids are using drugs, and all their friends are using drugs, so all young people use drugs. And that just is a reality, right? That's just pockets ah oh kids of our country. It's not the same thing, it's not happening, it really is. But everybody has an opportunity say to be something, to achieve their potential. And I really hope that these courses allow parents to sit with their children,
00:46:06
Speaker
and connect and, you know, engage and build rapport and have certain conversations and yeah, and be closer then than they
Supporting Neurodiverse Children
00:46:18
Speaker
were before. And yeah, I mean, and that's, that's not kind of basic. I mean, that's like the lowest level. I think those courses would give you that, let alone what that would give and a child to have a parent who really cared that much to take that time with them.
00:46:35
Speaker
Yeah, well, as you're talking, I'm thinking that's what's interesting about our kids, right? If we're not interested in their latest video game or their latest TikTok hilarious thing that they've found that you think is nonsense, we can be interested in what is actually going on in their world. And it sounds like these um these courses, which are which are quite bite-sized, that's why it's a bundle, right? I'm thinking you can dip in and out, you don't have to follow it from start to finish.
00:47:04
Speaker
um Pick a topic and and and go through that with a child, with your teenager, can open up that sort of communication, teach you what things are like for them and by doing of doing that almost just help them feel more connected. And we're back to that connection thing that you talked about right at the beginning and how important that is for them to feel like they belong and you understand. So, so it's a flourish.co.uk and it's the Empowered parenting bun Parent bundle.
00:47:40
Speaker
and Empowered Parenting Course Bundle, which you'll find on their course bundles page. yeah mean with this being calledries on there is ah it's It's really exciting. and we're goingnna wherez There's going to be a neurodiversity one like working with your neurodiverse child as well. And I guess like to a degree, like there's no parenting manuals, but there are like, and I feel like this is like,
00:48:06
Speaker
a string to your bow, right? So you've got a bit more in your arsenal. You've got space to chat.
Where to Find More Resources
00:48:13
Speaker
and It's indirect as well. So it's not like, oh, we're doing this. ah drug session because I think you're on drugs. It's like we're doing this drug session because it's part of the parenting bundle. So let's just talk about it. And you know we're not talking about you. We're talking about, I don't know, whoever's in the case that we're looking at or the examples that are being shown. And I think young people are really good at judging other people. And indirectly, then you sort of reflect yourself, don't you?
00:48:45
Speaker
It's really useful. It's going to open up those conversations as well as, ah you know, increase your knowledge for sure. Yeah. Yeah, i I feel like I might do them myself, actually, because there's going to be some things in there that I wish I knew about what my kids' lives are like. And for listeners of this podcast, Flourish have given a discount code. It's Kix15 to get some money off the cost of the course. um So I will drop the link to Flourish and the the the the bundles in the show notes. So when you finish listening, drop down and click on that link and you'll be taken there.
00:49:23
Speaker
um Charlotte, you've done this work with with Flourish, but you have another company of your own, right? But this is where you do all of your professionally or work with the professionals who are in contact with our teenagers, with our children. um Is there anything else you want to share? Where can people find out more about you, about Flourish, anything that you you want to share before we end?
00:49:45
Speaker
Well please obviously go to flourish.co.uk and just check out what they're doing and I mean I didn't mention also there's a bullying one and there's a vaping one as well which is very current. I want to know more about vaping. Yeah so the vaping course is that i that i deliver from now we have public health come on our vaping courses like like vaping seems to be but we're finding out more about it um it's it's fascinating but the stuff that i'm doing as well as with my work with flourish um so i run kip education which is stands for knowledge is power i set up kip education and solely that very similar to how we started this podcast with the idea of helping young people that were like me growing up who struggled, who didn't ah you tend to navigate the world, who just felt a bit lost. And so the majority of my work actually is done with young people directly doing workshops with young people. And I think that's how when I put the parenting bundle together, that's that's the that's a lot of my input is
00:50:55
Speaker
I do this with young people already. I know it works. It's evidence-based. They love it. They react. They engage. They find it enjoyable. So we can translate that in this space as well. So yeah, I guess the stuff that I'm doing with KIPP Education is the the workshops around all things around PSHE and then working with professionals and parents to connect better with young people, to maintain rapport. And I guess that's the way that we're going to stay together, aren't we, all of us? If that if we're doing those things, you know, if we don't dismiss our children and we notice them. and Yeah. You know, my child came down the other day, I made love, came down and they didn't have his phone with him.
00:51:44
Speaker
I said, what's wrong with you? What are you talking about? I said, i said where's your phone? You don't know yeah know what your phone is. ah This to me is at home, right? I said, who have you had an argument with?
00:52:02
Speaker
He was, what are you talking about? I said, who have you had an argument with? He's, how do you know I've had an argument with someone? He's like, did you haven't got your phone? Like, you would have your phone with you the whole time, is it? It's attached to you. It's attached to you. But if someone has upset you in that phone,
00:52:19
Speaker
You haven't got your phone with you. And that is how it was. It was an alarm bell for me straight away. And I was, I was on the phone totally. And he'd had a row with a friend. He'd had this big row. They were, they were rowing and he just had nothing. Just hit the phone and it's like, don't want to talk to that person. Can't handle it. Can't handle the situation. And he'd left the phone and knowing those kinds of things, um,
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah, this you deal with your child a lot better if you put your eyes open. You need to get your own hands out of your own phone. Otherwise, you wouldn't even notice your child coming down the stairs without his phone. it's Just being there and being awake to your kids is going to make such a difference to their lives. and we had been that Being and wanting them and letting them know. I mean, they call me Smother, Helen, right? Excellent. And it's not Mother.
00:53:08
Speaker
Right now I'd say this is like an accolade. i I know they're trying to. get up I love it. I i think it's like actually to all parents. If I was a mother, that's how I'm going to be forever. I'm i'm there for you. ah ah Brilliant. I love that mother. They're just there for them and you know stuff about them. That's what they don't like is that you know things about them.
00:53:34
Speaker
But I'm, I but like and love it. and love it yeah Yeah, I think that um finishing the podcast on the note of ah the use of a phone is quite a reassuring thing for parents to hear because it's the one thing that I hear all the time how their kids phones are the problem. They're the problem for absolutely everything. They're the cause of every single piece of conflict. And it's just not true. They're learning how to manage it and you're helping them because you're noticing what's going on.
00:54:02
Speaker
Charlotte, thank you so, so much for your time today. um When you finish listening, guys, go click on the link in the show notes or visit florish.co.uk and have a look for the Empowered Parenting Bundle. I guarantee you're going to find something in there that is of value to your relationship with your kids. Thank you so much for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, please give it a rating on your podcast app. And if you know someone who might benefit from listening, do share it with them.
00:54:32
Speaker
It also means a lot when you give me feedback. So if you have comments or suggestions for another episode, or know someone who'd like to tell their story on the Teenage Kicks podcast, do you get in touch at helen at helenwheels.com or come and find me on my blog, actuallymommy.co.uk. Head over there now for more articles on the joys and there are many of parenting a teenager. Bye for now.