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Ep. 97: Betty and James (Race Across The World) on growing up with MRKH
518 Plays5 months ago
In this final episode of my 8th season of Teenage Kicks, we hear from Betty and James Mukherjee, of Race Across The World fame. Watching the show we saw the brother and sister relationship develop as they completed challenges together, but they say it wasn't always like this - they fell out like typical siblings when they were growing up.
They talk about how they handled their feelings during the harder times on the trip around Southeast Asia (remember when they lost their passports?) and the moment when Betty opened up to James about her diagnosis of MRKH, a medical condition which means she doesn't have a uterus. I ask Betty what it was like to be diagnosed at the age of 16 with something that changed her perception of her life, and I ask James how it felt to know at a young age that his sister's life had changed.
They both talk about the need to allow feelings, their own and each other's, and - importantly - to open up about those feelings rather than keeping them locked in. She describes herself as a 'glass half empty' kind of girl, and how important it is to notice when she starts to catastrophise and take steps to change her previous patterns. Betty now shares the reality of her daily life on Instagram and in her women's wellbeing community It's a Balance Thing. She says it's important for her to talk to her friends (even though they couldn't understand) and to share with others going through the same. She recommends MRKH Connect for other people living with MRKH.
James tells me about the moment on the show where he gets a hug from a cameraman after feeling emotional during that conversation, and how important it feels now to help men understand that allowing emotions is also important for them. He recommends Andy's Man Club as a good place to start if you're struggling to open up about mental health. You can also message James on Instagram.
More teenage parenting from Helen Wills:
Helen wills is a counsellor, a parent coach, and a teen mental health podcaster and blogger at Actually Mummy, a resource for midlife parents of teens.
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please email helen@actuallymummy.co.uk.
You can find more from Helen Wills on parenting teenagers on Instagram @iamhelenwills.
For information on your data privacy please visit Zencastr's policy page
Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
Episode produced by Michael J Cunningham.
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Transcript
Introduction of Betty and James Mukherjee
00:00:00
Speaker
in the end, try and have an outlet for however it is you're feeling or whatever it is you're thinking. And and there's no like pressure on that, is though it's just about taking it your own in your own stead.
00:00:15
Speaker
My guests today need no introduction if you're a fan of race across the world. If you haven't watched it, you're missing a huge treat. Since finishing the race, the brother and sister duo who made viewers emotional with their bond and their self-disclosure on the show have been high profile. And now, Betty and James Mukherjee are here to talk to me.
Betty's Experience with MRKH
00:00:36
Speaker
about what it was like for each of them to grow up with Betty's medical diagnosis of MRKH, which I will let Betty explain. With five years between them, you might expect that there'd be some bickering as they spent more than 50 days together, 24-7, in some really tough situations on the show. But they genuinely looked like they were the best of friends throughout every single episode.
00:01:03
Speaker
I'm constantly asked how I cope with sibling rivalry with teenagers, and although my kids do get on pretty well, there are always moments, so I'm going to ask these two what their secret is. Betty and James, welcome to Teenage Kicks. Hi. Thank you for having us. Oh, look, i I get emotional thinking about you two all the time. when i'm When I was preparing this today, I was just casting back to some of those episodes. And not just for that key moment where the whole of the UK got emotional watching you two, which we'll talk about in a minute. But because
00:01:41
Speaker
You just have such a nice bun. Now I watch with with my son and ah he was kind of rolling his eyes in the corner of the sofa every time I go, oh. Did you know that that was the sort of impact you were having on people?
Sibling Bond and Communication
00:01:58
Speaker
Not at all, really. And do you know why it was, we never actually expected to have that bond ourselves. So I think the fact that that has then rippled and like affected other people back home is just like unimaginable. and Like you say, as brother and sister, a sibling relationship, she do expect that kind of bicker. And I don't know, we just, we didn't have that, did we, James? We kind of developed this like telepathic communication of
00:02:24
Speaker
don't push me right now or I'm hungry and just leave me alone. and But yeah, we never actually had an argument. so It was one of the more surprising things and I think mum and dad were more worried about that happening, to be honest. yeah um But yeah, surprisingly, we sort of got on pretty well most of the time. But as Betty says, yeah, we had that communication method of just giving each other a look. Right. I said, would you have had like normal bickers like like most brothers and sisters do before at home? Yeah, all the time. like Growing up, I grew up all the time, obviously with our older brother as well, Matt. So he would, me and him would sort of, not gang up on Betty, but I was... Yes.
00:03:08
Speaker
I'm sort of intruded on their early friendship and relationship I guess, so yeah I was the sidekick of Matt really. Right. Cause how old is Matt? He's a year and a half older than me. Right. So were you two pretty close when you were growing up? Yeah. So me and Matt were really close growing up. And then when James came along, he just ruined it. And then it was like boys versus me. And I just got labeled with middle child syndrome. Oh no. Oh, we could have a whole episode on that.
00:03:42
Speaker
um So yeah, so at home, we always used to bicker and used to fight and fall out over things. So we fully expected on the race to do that. But yeah, we surprised. Yeah. well So it was your idea, Betty, that both of you should go on race across the world. It was. And you knew that you might bicker. Did you have any contingency plans for how you were going to manage that? I think the thing is um James and I obviously knew each other as children growing up um but quite quickly like with James's cricket and him being out every weekend and you know as you grow into adults like we just never spent that time together so actually you know and I'd recently moved out of the family home so we just we hadn't argued for a long time ah I would say
00:04:30
Speaker
But yeah, I just knew that we didn't know each other as adults. And that was definitely something that I thought a lot of people don't get the chance to do. yeah We were given that opportunity. wea a nice thing to take, but yeah, I didn't know that we weren't going to bicker. It was just one of those risks. I remember, because watching it right from the beginning, I remember the intros to you two and you were sort of saying, well, James would rather just go living at large on Ibiza or similar, um and it probably isn't much of a traveller. How are you feeling at that point when, before it all kicked off, before you really got into the travelling, James?
00:05:09
Speaker
it was it was tough because we didn't know what to expect and i was just so like oh this is kind of a cool experience i was going to see some new countries but the so that the element of it being unknown was so massive that it was just like right i want to get my hands dirty i want to get stuck into this want to get involved and everything and i think we quickly quickly realized it was going to be harder than it actually made out to be we'd signed up because we could said we said yeah we could do this that looks pretty easy yeah That first night, that first day when we were struggling to even know what to do, yeah it was so tough.
Race Challenges and Personal Growth
00:05:40
Speaker
And yeah, we managed to to find our way through it, thankfully.
00:05:45
Speaker
a sense though because I went with that like that previous kind of traveling experience I suppose and I was definitely bigged up to be this like more experienced traveler. I just felt the pressure like straight away and when actually James probably thrived more than I did I was like what is going on here? He was used to having just like beers with the lads and yet he's loving it and I was just yeah definitely feeling the pressure of signing us up for it, bringing my little brother with me, not really know what was going on, but it was just a situation that you could not ever have prepared yourself for. I think you could genuinely be the most experienced traveler in the world and yeah find it tricky. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Well, some of what you did was super tricky. I mean, I've done, I've done some fairly offbeat traveling many, many, many years ago.
00:06:35
Speaker
And I do look at that and I start to get quite panicky watching the show sometimes. And I have to kind of talk myself down and go, this is not you, Helen, doing this. It's them who's like sweating rivers or sleeping on dirt floors. It's not you don't have to do this. Do you have a particularly low moment? I'll start with you, James. Was there any any moment that really struggled to get your head? I mean, you didn't look like you struggled to get your head around anything, but was there something? I mean, just touching on the first point of feeling like you're going through it, but you know, I still think about things we did now. I start racing a little bit. I'm like, OK, do I have to do that again? Oh, no, I don't. I was done. That's fine. and Looks like some things proper nervous, like nerve wracking. So it's not not just you. You're not alone, I promise. ah Low moments, I think.
00:07:26
Speaker
Losing the passport was obviously quite a big yeah big thing, um quite a low point. and Losing the money belt for me was quite a low point. um Yeah, they're the ones that stand out really. And I guess we we always said, didn't we, like, the the positives outweigh the negatives all the time? Yeah. um So to think of many negatives, you have to sort of just think of the positives that go with it. So it's quite hard to think of, like, lots of negatives really. So what was the positive that went with losing the money belt? Well, it kind of spurred us on, didn't it? me I think from from that night and what what we experienced from that night was it just like get up and go attitude from it. We sort of got on with the with the night ahead, like we planned well, we just sort of put everything that had happened behind us and just went with it. And I think that was a really positive thing because if that hadn't happened, we might have just stayed a bit late, but stayed a bit like not really too bothered. And it sort of kicked us on and spurred us on to do better. so
00:08:21
Speaker
Right, yeah, because i I was watching that. I couldn't, ah in fact, ah I'm aware of a little bit of a sense of dread in my stomach right now thinking about it. and i was Because you were like 24 hours not knowing where this money belt was and whether or not you get kicked out of the race. i i'm I'm making 24 hours up, but it felt like a really long time. something like that I would have wanted to know instantly. And I'd have been pacing the floor demanding that someone sort it out right there and then. And you two, including you, Betty, you just, you were just like, I mean, I could tell you were a bit stressed, but you were just quite chilled, like, like as if you accepted, oh okay, so there's nothing more we can do until the next thing happened.
00:09:08
Speaker
I think obviously it is a a TV show where days are condensed into seconds, sometimes minutes on the show. And you'd probably write in saying that it was like a good 24 hours where I think it's safe to say like, James, I didn't speak to you today for a good maybe 14, 15, 16 hours, I'd just literally into shutdown mode. So when we talk about like the lowest point, that was definitely my lowest point. And it was more because of like, I was feeling like guilt and like if we got sent home, it would be my fault. And even now to this day, I just think I would never have been able to like live that down or kind of cope with that. So I definitely went into like shutdown mode and didn't want to speak to anyone. And I think because I felt out of control,
00:10:00
Speaker
And that I couldn't do anything. I didn't have my phone. I couldn't ring the station myself. I couldn't, you know, I didn't even know where that train, that bus station was. I couldn't even Google maps it to go, can I go walk themselves? I just had no sense of like control in that instance. So it was really tricky to kind of navigate. And yeah the agreement of staying over at that homestay was that we went out fishing at like 4am the next morning. Yeah. Oh yeah. You to work and you still didn't know if you were going to be able to continue. And then after that, it was like, you know, James loved that vision trip and was like, look at the sunrise and taking it all in. I literally just sat with my head in the hum my hands and this is the worst thing in the world. And then I was like kicking myself because I was like, if I go home right now, I've spent the last 24 hours just hating it.
00:10:47
Speaker
Whereas James could go home and go, oh well the last 24 hours was great because it still made the most of it and yeah you know that was kind of like a pivotal moment for me just to kind of like make the move start of like whatever opportunity or experience you find yourself in. It's kind of like live in the moment. I'm just wondering whether there was any, well I'm imagining that for me in that situation I would have had to have given up the need to control and we might talk about that because I know you've talked about having to control and I'm a bit, I can be, a I can actually, I label myself a control freak actually because um I do it because I do it when I don't feel safe yeah and I think that's pretty standard. that We only control what with what we're frightened of, yeah what we're worried about.
00:11:33
Speaker
And in that situation I'm just wondering what it was like to have no control and was there like a did a to to switch flip for you at some point to get to that place of okay well I need to change my approach here? Yeah I mean I remember sort of the morning after the ship the fishing and um I just sat by like the water. It must've been for at least two, three hours. James kind of had lunch and cooked with the family and made the most of that experience, but I just had to be on my own. And kind of during that time, I just thought that exactly that, like if i've gone if I go home right now, if they tell me, right, you're going home, I wouldn't have done anything.
00:12:15
Speaker
to help that situation. So I think the first thing I did was ask the guy that we were staying with if I could ring the bus station on his phone. yeah and Because then at least I knew I'd asked a question and tried. and And then yeah it kind of just kind of just spiralled into a positive, it all just happened and then we were back at the bus station and having a hug with that guy that I love. Yeah. And James, what were you feeling when all this was going on, when when Betty had sort of taken herself off and isolated herself from you? What were you feeling about it all? I think I was sleeping for a couple of hours actually. Okay. There's one scene where I'm on the sofa and I just sleep, so. Just make the most of the downtime.
00:13:02
Speaker
yeah really but I think it lies quite there wasn't really much we could do yeah because we'd straight away like we'd asked the people to ring the bus station, we checked everywhere we thought it might be, we knew it was in the bus station, we couldn't get there because there was no one there to take us, there was no car, we were just stuck basically, and we had our hopes in the hands of other people, in the strangers who had been there for 10-12 hours at the time.
00:13:34
Speaker
yeah so You know, in my in my head, there was nothing else we could do. We'd done all we could. Yeah. And we now just, I don't know, could I just enjoy a little bit like I was hungry for a start. So we ate some lunch and cooked. I think it was just trying to be thankful at the same time for those people who are actually taken us in because if we could have been in the middle of nowhere, we could have been on the side of the street in the pouring rain. We could have been, yeah you know, nowhere at the but that time. And we could have been stranded. So. Yeah. for those people who did take us in and were letting us work, letting us stay on their floor, letting us have that quality time, was trying to give something back, I guess. Yeah, no, you're right. And I i guess we could yeah we could go into a whole thing about gratitude and how useful that is as a strategy when we're feeling pretty rough that actually works. And and and you and you said you it changed how you felt, Betty, once you'd come to terms with it and accepted that.
00:14:29
Speaker
Yeah I think it was a good life lesson to have really and because at the end of the day like all the worries that I had were hypothetical like they hadn't come true like I wasn't going home and you know I was just getting myself in such a state of like what if this happens and what if this happens and instead of just kind of enjoying it for what it is and you know like being on that show Race across the World and where we were and what we were experiencing is like once in a lifetime and yet I was just stuck in my own head going oh I could be going home. So it was just a bit of like...
00:15:00
Speaker
kick up the bomb that I needed to be like, just, you know, live in the moment a bit more, appreciate things for what they are are and deal with things as they come instead of just laying it out in your own head. Well, there's that stat, isn't there? It's like 81% of what we worry about never comes through. Yeah. So what's the point? Exactly. But but the the thing is I worked in mental health and worked with children for five years in the NHS. And I would tell kids that on a daily basis, but trying to tell yourself that in a moment. Yeah. it is is's difficult. So it's not about like invalidating anyone who worries or anything like that. is just It's tricky to navigate, but I think if you can reflect and see how you would do things differently, then that's always a positive for next. Yeah, definitely. And it's some um mean yeah completely understandable. The fear just takes over, doesn't it? So then you've got to kind of employ some strategies to mitigate it a bit.
00:15:55
Speaker
I think with all the other factors involved as well that we were, you know, the environment we were in, you couldn't just call up your mum or boyfriend or whoever it was, you couldn't just, you know, how easy it is now to message someone or something like we're probably tired, we haven't had much sleep, probably hungry, probably, you know, so all the other factors as well just built up to this. Yeah. then explosion of emotion and feeling like a bit down in the dump and whatnot, so. Yeah, yeah. It seems like it was so hot but you couldn't even go like shower because they just had like a bucket of water. Yeah. And it's like you couldn't even just go sit in the shower, feel the water and then be like, right, and refresh, like, just settling in. You were tired and like everything felt worse than it probably was. Yeah, no, that really is getting back to basics of if you of've just all you've got is yourself. Yeah.
Understanding and Coping with MRKH
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:16:44
Speaker
So, um Betty, the the real famous moment was when you started talking to James about your diagnosis of um ah of, and I'm going back to my notes because I can't remember the the acronym order, M-R-K-H, is that right? Yeah. And because I read something you said on Twitter recently about, like ah of all the people that answered a survey about it that you posted, so and something like only 6% had heard of it, and I'd never heard of it. So can you just explain a little bit for us what MRKH is? Yeah, so it's a rare condition which affects kind of the women's reproductive system. So um there's two types, there's type one that just affects kind of the development of the uterus and then there's type two which
00:17:35
Speaker
and can cause sort of other issues as well, such as affecting like the kidneys, heart effect vi defects, defects, hearing. I have type two, so I only have one kidney, but touch wood, everything else seems to be okay. But it's funny thinking back, because when I was about four or five, I had to get my hearing tested. Cause I was just a really loud kid. I just used to shout all the time. So I'm like, what I had to do with my hair? Turns out I didn't, but maybe I do, after all. And you so you just wouldn't know unless you had symptoms that there was anything wrong. Yeah. So there's no, I didn't have any particular symptoms. I just didn't start my period. Yeah. That was when it kind of, the investigation started. us Right. Yeah. But it's clearly more than just an anatomical, oh, an organ's missing. It's not that straightforward if it affects your hearing and other things as well. Yeah, exactly.
00:18:33
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that survey that you um referred to, there was about 13,000 people that sort of voted on the survey between Twitter and Instagram. And yeah, only 7% had ever heard of it. Yeah. and So, you know, I went to GPs quite a few times and they never sort of investigated it or even thought to consider it. And even now, if I go to the GP, like, it must be on my note somewhere that I have this condition and, you know, I've been recently and people have asked if, oh, have you taken a pregnancy test? how my um And that's the GPs and doctors. So it's just so like not known about.
00:19:18
Speaker
but it's only the experts that know about anything, isn't it? My daughter has type 1 diabetes and she if she ever goes to the GP, she's always asked the most ridiculous questions about it. And you'd imagine a GP, diabetes, it's not that uncommon, um but but the only people that get it that really understand are the consultants that she sees every three months. ex Exactly. clue All the people experiencing it and that's ah Well, yeah, exactly. and And actually they, they understand it better than the consultants. Have you had that? Well, are you said that you've not really had anyone to talk to about it? You've not met anyone else with the condition in all the time that you had it? Yeah. I mean, I was i'm at Whittle's late. I have probably been in a lot of denial about my condition a and never really access things like support groups or anything like that.
00:20:10
Speaker
But I do know now, since talking about it, that there are amazing support groups out there, and I would kind of recommend them for anyone to access. But I do think sometimes when you're dealing with something like this, you do just need to muddle through on your own sometimes. Well, that's not, you know, it's obviously important to talk about it, but you do think, well, no one else understands, no one else gets it. And no one else in like your smaller circle gets it. No, and that is the reality, isn't it? No no one that hasn't got it gets it. Yeah. And i I'm going to ask you to share um those support groups, if you're willing to, that I can share in my show notes um a bit later on. I'll come back to you how it felt for you to be diagnosed, but James, do you what do you remember of Betty's diagnosis? Anything?
00:21:03
Speaker
So I was 12 at the time. I think we'd been at a school production, if I'm right. I think they might have been performing in it. And we'd got home, it was quite late. And it might have been the next day that I just heard Mum and Dad speaking to her about it. Didn't know much about it, really. I was 12 at the time. I had my own young teenage stuff going on. all yeah know So I didn't really yeah take much notice of it. but then it sort of just came, I found out a few years later, maybe 15, 16, 17, found out and again didn't take much notice of it because I didn't really think it was, you know, my my business if you like. Right. And I guess now with support and how it's sort of come out is more in such a natural way and the support that Betty's got from it is, it actually shows it is quite a
00:21:57
Speaker
ah a subject that needs to be talked about. yeah But at the time I had no real influence on it. I had no idea really what it was, what it meant. um Because why would you at that sort of age? like you know I was 12, I was just starting sort of secondary school, I'd be on stuff going on. And girls at that time were irrelevant really. Well, and the whole business of having a family that's all completely irrelevant when you're that age. Yeah, 100%. You don't care about no one else at that i age. No, true. No. So did it feel, and I don't want to, it this sounds a bit blunt, but did it feel like it just wasn't that big that much of a big deal? Yeah, because I never really talked about it. It was never talked about to me except when I heard it that one time. Yeah. And then you sort of pick up mum and dad speaking about things and it's like, oh, why are you talking about that? What does that mean? Like, what does this mean? Yeah. And as I say, it wasn't until a few years later. So yeah, it wasn't really anything to me at the time.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I think as you're 12, like, yes, you were 12, but you were also my 12 year old brother. And, you know, it's not like you were my sister and you were about to start your period. And then we could have that conversation, like any that I was going through, like, even if, you know, a normal brother and sister relationship, you don't have those in depth conversations or relationships or bodies doing or like that. Um, so yeah. And I genuinely believe that if we hadn't been on race across the the world that we wouldn't have sat down and had that conversation because why would she? He's still my little brother in my eyes. Like, why would I sit him to fuck that conversation? And did it Betty, did it did you kind of always know that you might talk to James about this while you were there or did it just kind of come out? I think I knew that conversation was going to happen because
00:23:44
Speaker
Obviously it's such a big part of who I am and why I do certain things or why I act in a certain way. And, you know, when you've spent eight weeks, 24 seven with someone, one you're going to start learning a bit more about each other, like no matter who you are or what relationship you have with them. Um, I didn't know exactly how it was going to come out or why it was going to come out or whatever, but I did have a little bit of an inkling that if I was gonna speak about it, then obviously it would be with James. I think like James said, you know how you saw that conversation would, that that would be how it would be. Wherever it would have been in the world, if we'd been at home, whatever, that conversation would have been like that. And I genuinely believe that because you know it wasn't produced, we were kind of just left to have that conversation. And everything we kind of said was just raw and real and,
00:24:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you could see that completely. So, yeah, I was in floods. And then I was and then i was on my phone going, I need to talk to her about this. um Because i ah I assumed that having said it in such a public place, you you might want to use that platform to talk about it more and you've talked since about how you want to raise awareness because as you said if just one person doesn't have to feel the way you felt when you had your diagnosis then that's worth doing. Yeah and it's pretty wild to think about because in the 10 years I've been diagnosed
00:25:20
Speaker
I barely spoke about it, like making a new friend or whatever. Like I've just kind of kept it to myself. So why I chose to share that with seven, eight million people. I'm not sure. but we ask Well, the time just was right, clearly. i I have this kind of conversation with my daughter all the time because she, and I think most people that have got something different than the norm will keep it to themselves because, especially as teenagers, I mean, did you feel this?
Privacy and Acceptance of MRKH
00:25:48
Speaker
I'm asking two questions in one ear, but for either of you, but you especially Betty, I guess. Did did you feel like you just didn't want to have people think of you differently? Is that why you kept it to yourself?
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think as a teenager anyway, you're always seeking to just fit in with your peers, aren't you? So no matter what anyone's going through, if you then add an extra layer of complication, it was definitely easier at that time to just kind of try and forget about it. And I remember my first ever doctor's appointment with the specialist and he kind of just said to me, you know, you're not thinking about having children yet, so it doesn't matter. ah And obviously at 16, I was like, well, yeah, obviously I'm not thinking about that. But when we think about womb or uterus, you think about having a family, don't you baby? and But obviously as a teenage girl, there's a lot more complications that come first before that. and And that was never spoken about. So it was easy for me sit about to sit my GCSEs, to e so just kind of forget about it. and Yeah. I was actually, I was asked to find a picture yeah the other day for a newspaper around that time. And I was looking back for some pictures and I was like, I just look so like but normal and happy.
00:26:59
Speaker
and I know I knew I would probably be faking it like and you know I would have been feeling in pain at the time probably emotionally but yeah you wouldn't be able like I was looking back at my prom pictures and that was three months after I'd been diagnosed and I just looked so normal. How were you feeling if you're able to reflect on that now? I think I was just feeling very confused and very lost and quite isolated. name And looking back now, I know that I did a lot of that to myself.
00:27:37
Speaker
whether that I've been in like a self-sabotage way of like well I'm different and I deserve to be on my own or whether it was just because I just want to try and forget about that so I'm not going to associate myself with support groups and things like that. You say you deserve to be on your own sorry I'm interrupting you but ah is that what was going through your head that because you're not going to have children in the normal way you can't be with anyone else? I definitely felt like no one would want to be with me if I didn't have children. I think because I had in my head that I, you know, I wanted it to be a mom and I wanted to have a family. And yeah, I just thought like, I wasn't going to have that. Like, why would anyone want to be with me as like game over for a part of your life? That's huge to be dealing with at 16. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And James,
00:28:33
Speaker
Now that you've had that moment um on the show with Betty, can you see how deep that feels? i'm Sorry, that sounds like a really trick question, like I'm trying to trick you up, like, no. No, it's all right. I suppose what I'm asking is, did it change your your perception of your sister? I mean, look she's always been my older sister. like She'll always be that annoying older sister, won't she? like It's not going to change it. It's described like...
00:29:06
Speaker
I guess I got to that age of 16, 17 when I found out what it actually meant and sort of described her as you know being brave, resilient, whatever. um So it sort of just hammered that home really, because you know not only the ah condition conversation happening, but to do that in a scenario that we're in you know on on the trip of a lifetime, but under like immense circumstances and the environment we're in and things it just sort of enhanced that but it as like as Betty said it's such a natural thing to happen and I think to to open up like that on such a natural but such a deep level was was incredible and as you know she's never spoke about it for the last 10 years but to do it in front of seven eight million people on a national tv show is quite amazing
00:29:51
Speaker
hmm it is and it was a hugely emotional moment and she kind of did it to you as well because you lost it briefly yeah yeah um it was just sort of raw at the time and yeah you know as i say the environment might have had a part to play in that but you know just how how i felt and i think yeah One of the the moments with Sin that's blown up is the the cameraman piece where he steps in and and gives me a hug, which was nice. So um we'll always be thankful for him and yeah know the team we had behind us were were amazing as well. Yeah. I mean, i look, where we live in the West and we're all so avoidant of our feelings gent as a general population. And I work to try and not be and to help other people not be as a counsellor.
00:30:37
Speaker
It was a real moment for me because I can, you know, the, the, the women that I see who are able to open up and cry and be okay with it are, you know, there's quite a lot of them. There's, we all try and lock it down, but women generally, and ah it's, I am stereotyping, but it's what I see. Whereas there's a huge thing about men keeping it together and not, and when I said you lost it, i I didn't want that to sound like, Oh my God, you lost it. because i think losing it Then anyway, don't really matter. Well, losing it is is is so important. And like I mean, do you feel like that that might have been a cathartic thing for more than just you, the people that are watching it?
Impact on Viewers and Emotional Openness
00:31:20
Speaker
A hundred percent. i so I saw that from sort of reactions from it. The amount of men who have messaged on Instagram or Twitter or whatever it is and being like, like, thank you for it might not mean anything. It might not. They might not change who they are and they might not go and show that emotion. But
00:31:36
Speaker
to know that it's like done at least done something in that they can feel to message is even something yes it is because you might have to show any emotion to anyone but even messaging someone and being saying something nice or yeah having a laugh or something can change someone's day it can can help them from stopping them from doing something that you know might regret going forward so that to me was massive and to me it's a thank you for all their support it didn't really mean anything on a deeper level but now i've reflected on the last when did the show end month and a half ago so yeah yeah you know it actually means a lot more than that um so yeah like if any if you can help anyone and even just a smile in the street or something like that
00:32:15
Speaker
absolutely yeah yeah can make a difference and they've seen a man cry now on national tv and nothing you know nothing broke yank yeah exactly um so betty i'm gonna go back to my notes because i wrote some questions um because there are think oh You said you've kind of alluded to this already, but you said that having the condition gave you a mindset of being negative and not really liking yourself. And you talked about being in denial. I did not see negativity on that show. Were you just masking? Well, it's hilarious because the amount of messages that
00:32:56
Speaker
We read being like, Betty's the most positive person in the world. My mom was like, are you joking? And I was like, Oh my God. And even, you know, the two episodes that I knew I was less positive, like with the bum bag situation and obviously. disclose my condition, like even after that, everyone's like, she's the most bubbliest happiest person. And I was like, what are you seeing? but um And even James is like shaking his head. I think obviously the show is a lovely family friendly show. They want to put you out to be the best person you are. And obviously I'm very grateful for that. um
00:33:36
Speaker
there were obviously times in the show where it was like highly stressful or whatever and that was kind of just a given but I would never describe myself as like a positive person. I'm always a glass half empty kind of kind of girl always kind of preparing for the worst or expecting the worst o and yeah it's definitely made me think of myself differently because I'm like I don't know why I'm like that. And it's actually made the last 10 years just really difficult and it didn't need to be as difficult. But I think when, you know, even pre-diagnosis, I was kind of under the impression that something was different or a bit abnormal. And when you start to develop that kind of negative self-talk at such a young age, it can be really, really damaging. And I've definitely felt the effects of that because
00:34:30
Speaker
If anything was to go like slightly wrong, I would quickly spiral into like worst case scenario. And and that's in anything, if it's work, friendship, losing your past calls, whatever it is, I would always go quite quickly to worst case scenario. This is my fault. This is what I deserve. I'm not going to ask you where if you get a sense of where that came from. I ask people that sort of thing on the on the podcast all the time and we could be here much longer than we planned to be. um But i i'm I'm genuinely interested in that sort of question because some I'm exactly the same. I do exactly the same and I have to work really quite hard.
00:35:11
Speaker
to catch myself doing it and I think that's all you can do is just catch yourself doing it and correct it and over time it gets it gets easier and you and you go you're more likely to go to the the oh but what if a positive thing happened and oh but this is definitely going to happen what What I am going to ask you is if you've got any advice that you would give to any young person who suddenly finds that their perception of their life is completely altered in the way that I'm assuming yours was. I think even though I didn't kind of reach out to those like specific support groups or those specialists, I think on reflection like speaking to like the friends that I've still got now,
00:35:57
Speaker
And like mum and dad, for example, um definitely helped because even though I knew they didn't understand, it was like it wasn't keeping it all in. It was giving that kind of outlet to get a little bit of that out. and So I think just, and I know it's not possible for everyone to talk. And even as a 26 year old grown woman now, I go into moments I've shut down where I can't speak to people and I can't articulate how I'm feeling, but just finding that outlet, like whatever it is, it might be music, it might be writing things down, it might be, you know, journaling, walking, whatever. Anything that just allows you to get to that level where you can go, right, I can now speak about it. And I'll have still a period now where it's like a couple of days and then suddenly I'll be like, well, this is what I was feeling, this is what I was thinking, and this is what I should have done, but I didn't, maybe next time I'll do this. And
00:36:53
Speaker
I'm sure it is frustrating for the people around me, but I do feel like I am getting better at that. So I think it's just finding an outlet, whatever works for you. It's not going to be the same for everyone. And that's what makes it tricky, isn't it? Because you can't just apply what your best friend's doing and you can't apply what your teacher says to you or whatever. It is just about figuring out what what makes you tick and what makes you thrive kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And you talk about that on your Instagram account, which I'll get you to share as well. um and And I see that very clearly and surrounding yourself with people who understand you. Yeah. And I think letting people in um because clearly when you went into shutdown mode on the show, James was just getting on with his own thing because he knew you and he knew what what the best way to deal with it was. Is that is that fair to say?
00:37:46
Speaker
He was thinking I'm getting double help and saying, you don't come back. Double helpings and a kip. Yeah, exactly. About time. Well, I think that's it. I've learned that on the race. Yeah, that's right. Like situations like that on the race and, you know, obviously the crew that was with us, I just completely shut them out and that was their experience too. and nothing Right. kind of some of like that guilt and shame is like I'm actually ruining James's experience here if I'm acting the way I'm acting and oh you went down that rabbit hole oh yeah rabbit holes yeah there was a chat we had on it she I think you said
00:38:27
Speaker
that you dealt with it horrifically. I think I said, yeah, I knew you were going to deal with it like that. And you were going to shut down and not speak to anyone. So I wasn't going to sit there and mope around waiting for you to get your ass in gear. I was going to do something about it. So there's knowing that, it's knowing who you've got on, like, who's got you back, who's going to be there when you need something and who you can be there for as well, having a good circle around you. I've never really been that close with mum and dad, like being able to speak to them properly. But in the last 10 months, probably since we got back from being the way, I've had to have a couple of difficult conversations and you know moving out of home and relationships and whatnot. So knowing that there's people there that you might not expect, and that's what we found from from the race is that there's someone else there to speak to about whatever.
00:39:14
Speaker
So it's identifying them and keeping them keep it them close if possible. But it's also not easy to to always speak as Betty said. like People aren't speakers. We're just not. We're not wired to speak about emotions and things. so But just knowing it's okay and we're not made of wood. like It's okay to feel sad sometimes. Accepting it. Absolutely. Oh, look, I could talk to you all day, um but I need to let you go. Is there anything else either of you want to say or um each of you just share where you'd like people to go or where they can find help as a result of listening to this?
00:39:50
Speaker
I think I've worked previously with a few work colleagues and friends and stuff with um especially for men's mental health and these man's club it's ah obviously a massive one and we haveve I've raised some money before for them doing walks or whatever so yeah that's always a ah good start for for men's mental health especially. Yeah I think that's a really good one and Yeah, I think just my piece of advice is kind of try not to keep it locked in for too long. And like I say, everyone deals with things differently and sometimes people need different time to process things, but in the end, try and have an outlet for however it is you're feeling or whatever it is you're thinking.
00:40:28
Speaker
and And there's no like pressure on that, is though it's just about taking it your own in your own stead. I think for people, I'd love for any woman to join my community if it's a balance thing. It's a new brand that I'm trying to set up and it is just about allowing that space for women to feel like they belong somewhere. Yeah, we didn't, um, yeah, didn't I didn't ask you any specific questions about it, but I was following it for a little while to tell us a little bit about that. No, well, it's just as a 16 year old girl and growing up in the last kind of 10 years, I felt. like I don't fit in anywhere or I don't belong anywhere. And I just thought coming off the back of this, if I could provide that space for anyone out there, then I want to do that. So it kind of sits within the health and wellbeing ream being a PT and previous mental health practitioner. But I'm hoping that it's going to develop into different things like wellness days or
00:41:23
Speaker
a series of what they don't teach you at school, so whether it's doing taxes or how to dress yourself, how to do your makeup, whatever it is, um just everything to do with being a a woman and yeah, just feeling like you belong somewhere. Yeah. Can you include in that? um You say how to do taxes. The other big one is how to vote and why it's important. Something about politics because no one, no one knows any of these basic yeah getting through life skills. So we just avoid them. Exactly. And that's the thing, these life skills that I just not taught at school. Yeah. And suddenly you just feel like you're modeling through the rest of your life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, it's a brilliant idea. I'll put the link for that in the show notes. Is there anywhere else you'd like me to link to any of your socials, either of you or um yeah any of the support groups for MRKH that you mentioned? Yeah, I've been teaching talking recently to MRKH Connect, which is one of the reading MRKH charities, and I'm hoping to do a bit of work with them or just see what they're all about because I've denied myself of it for the last 10 years. So I owe myself a bit of
00:42:27
Speaker
and support from them, I think. And and then my social is bettymuck, underscore. I'm trying to be as real and honest on there and just, you know, not just show up at the best of times and the highlights, which Instagram tends to be, but also some of the more rubbish times as well, just, you know, real. You do, you do it well. Name's anything from you? um Yeah, as I say, Andy's Man's Club is always a good place to start. yeah My Instagram is jamesmuckajee1, which is difficult to spell, so writing might be easier. ah um Again, I don't post too much on there, but ah yeah but yeah messages are always open if anyone does need to chat. I've had a few people just message and say, I'm dealing with it, I've got this and whatnot, so um amazing even a conversation can cheer anyone up, so yeah.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. Thank you both so much for talking to me today. Thank you very much for having us. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. Thank you too to everyone who's already rated and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Amazon, it would mean the world to me if you could leave a review. It really helps get the word out, as well as making me very happy to read what you have to say. If this episode strikes a chord for you please share it with anyone else you know who might be in the same boat and hit subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. If you have a story or a suggestion for something you'd like to see covered on the podcast you can email me at teenagekickspodcast at gmail dot.com or message me on instagram I'm I am Helen Woods. I love hearing from all my listeners it really makes difference to me on this journey.
00:44:13
Speaker
See you next week when I'll be chatting to another brilliant guest about the highs and lows of parenting teens. Bye for now!