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Female Political Strategy: We‘re Coming for You (Feat. Elle)
17 Plays4 years ago
Meet Elle! Our new cohost on the soon to be dropped Female Political Strategy podcast joins us to talk to us about her conservative background and journey to being an FDS queen
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Transcript
Introduction and Patreon Support
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
It's your host, Ro.
00:00:02
Speaker
Do you like female dating strategy?
00:00:04
Speaker
Would you like to see us expand on a lot of different platforms?
00:00:07
Speaker
Then please sign up for our Patreon.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are currently targeting a $10,000 per month goal, which would allow us to work full time on female dating strategy content in order to expand on different platforms and upgrade our media presence.
00:00:20
Speaker
As a special thank you to our current Patreon subscribers, we will be increasing our upload rate for our bonus content to be weekly on Fridays, as well as offering a special discount for paid annual memberships.
00:00:33
Speaker
So please check out our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:37
Speaker
That's patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Let's start the show.
Introducing Elle and Political Dialogues
00:00:47
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:53
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I'm your host, Ro.
00:00:54
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And this is Savannah.
00:00:55
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And I'm Lilith.
00:00:57
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And for the first time ever, we're introducing Elle.
00:01:01
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Say hello, Elle.
00:01:02
Speaker
Hello, everybody.
00:01:04
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Hi, Al.
00:01:06
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A little bit of background on Al.
00:01:08
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We, a couple of months ago, sent out a message that we were looking for a conservative co-host for a soon-to-be-launched political strategy podcast called Female Political Strategy.
00:01:22
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And we fortunately were able to find someone who came from a conservative ideology to join us on that podcast.
00:01:33
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I wanted to kind of talk about it.
00:01:34
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We wanted to invite her on the show because we wanted to both introduce her to our audience, but also to discuss the controversy that arose when we eventually were looking to find a conservative co-host.
00:01:47
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Because I know when we originally put the bat signal out that we were looking for, that we're looking to reach across the aisle for our political strategy podcast, it was not necessarily well, immediately well received by our audience who overwhelmingly leans left wing.
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, I was surprised that it got the amount of backlash that it did because, I mean, as a Canadian, like, conservatives here are pretty normal, but I don't know about you people in the States.
00:02:16
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No, I'm kidding.
00:02:16
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Yeah.
00:02:18
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I also second that as a Brit.
00:02:19
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I find politics in the US is a lot more polarising.
00:02:24
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But I'm excited about this new podcast.
00:02:27
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I'm excited to have Elle on board.
00:02:28
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I'm excited.
00:02:29
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It's always good to have a dialogue with people you don't...
00:02:33
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I mean, you may disagree with.
00:02:35
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I find that living in an echo chamber, so to speak, is not really always a good thing.
00:02:42
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It's always good to hear the other side.
00:02:44
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And you may also find that the other side has really good points as well.
00:02:48
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Because I know when I started, you know, I studied politics at uni.
00:02:53
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When I started, I was quite left wing.
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By the time I left, I was like in the centre, possibly leaning right.
00:03:04
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So yeah, opinions can change as well.
00:03:06
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So your viewpoint might change as well.
00:03:08
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So just employable just to keep an open mind and welcome Al.
00:03:13
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Welcome.
00:03:13
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Thank you guys so much.
00:03:16
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Like, I'm super stoked to be here, honestly.
00:03:19
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And I genuinely couldn't agree with you guys more.
00:03:21
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And you guys are a dope group of girls for sure.
00:03:23
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Oh, shucks.
00:03:24
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Thanks.
00:03:25
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Yeah, we do our best.
00:03:25
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We try.
00:03:28
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So I wanted to introduce you by talking about your journey to FDS.
00:03:34
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Like, how did you find FDS?
00:03:35
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What about FDS appealed to you?
00:03:38
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Just to kind of introduce you to our audience, but also like show that the idea behind FDS is that it should hopefully work for women and we can hopefully find enough commonalities with women who come from varying backgrounds, who come from varying political schools of thought, united against our struggle together against... The struggle of scrotery.
00:03:57
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The struggle of scrotery.
00:03:59
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Our struggle against scrotary.
00:04:01
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Yeah, our struggle against scrotary and that the struggle against scrotary is multifaceted.
00:04:06
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And that if you don't talk to women who come from more conservative backgrounds than you're and considering that a large percentage of women vote conservative and a lot of women who vote conservative who do consider themselves female first and who would also consider themselves more or less feminist, even if they're not feminist in the traditional liberal feminist sense, that you
00:04:27
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without having that conversation with women like that and understanding their needs and the kinds of things that they value, then you're only getting part of the conversation.
00:04:35
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So I kind of wanted to kick that off by asking you to discuss your journey to FDS and why FDS ended up appealing to you as a conservative.
Elle's Political Journey and Views
00:04:45
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For sure.
00:04:45
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For sure.
00:04:46
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No, thank you so much for this opportunity because I genuinely couldn't agree more that
00:04:51
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especially here in the U.S., conversations with those of other leanings has become not only polarized, it's a minefield now.
00:05:01
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And just within the last two election cycles, I have just straight up waited until the third or fourth meeting of somebody to discuss it as if though it's sex.
00:05:12
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Now it's another intimate topic I just don't get into with everyone.
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But here I am.
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sharing my intimate parts with the world.
00:05:19
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So, hey.
00:05:20
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Welcome.
00:05:22
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Thank you.
00:05:22
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Yeah, it's good to be out.
00:05:25
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So, I guess I just wanted to start with a quote that I heard when I was younger, and it was, if you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart, and if you're an adult and not a conservative, you have no brain.
00:05:34
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Where is that quote from?
00:05:36
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That's interesting.
00:05:37
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:05:37
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Some old white dude probably said it.
00:05:39
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Okay.
00:05:41
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So, I'll actually find a source for you and get that back to you.
00:05:45
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Okay.
00:05:46
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It really made absolutely no sense at the time.
00:05:49
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I was from the bluest of bluest towns.
00:05:53
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We had one conservative in my high school, in my grade school growing up.
00:05:59
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We had the most diverse town ever.
00:06:01
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We had a hundred and some odd countries represented at just my high school.
00:06:05
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So I grew up in a blue container and I
00:06:11
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I don't know if you wanted me to get into my conservative background first, but I think it's relevant because it kind of leads into how I found FDS.
00:06:19
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But I was a diehard feminist.
00:06:22
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At one point, I identified as a conscientious objector.
00:06:26
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don't know what shifted.
00:06:28
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I think it had to do with this at some point in my life, but I found out about the military and I was poor and student loans in the U S are kind of like standard issue if you want to make it in life.
00:06:40
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So I realized I didn't want student loans.
00:06:42
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School's very expensive.
00:06:43
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And I, as an immigrant wanted to serve my country.
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So I wound up joining the military and went from the bluest little dot in the
00:06:54
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You know, the west west of the Mississippi to a fairly conservative place.
00:06:59
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And I'd never met a conservative before, honestly, like we had one guy in high school that whose dad listened to Rush Limbaugh and we thought he was Republican.
00:07:09
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And everybody hated him for being practically KKK.
00:07:12
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And to like, you know, people surrounded, I'm surrounded by people with like master's degrees and like all their teeth in their mouth and able to speak with proper grammar.
00:07:25
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Wow, you're conservative and you have all of your teeth.
00:07:29
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I actually may have said something along those lines.
00:07:32
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Oh, that's funny.
00:07:32
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I shit you not.
00:07:34
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So, I was a hot mess.
00:07:36
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I was like, but you're a racist.
00:07:38
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Like, I don't – I was like, but you're not racist, but you are.
00:07:40
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I don't understand.
00:07:41
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Why are you a Republican?
00:07:43
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And it was a great dialogue back and forth.
00:07:47
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But a lot of what led me to the conservative side of the house is the fact that I grew up Muslim.
00:07:53
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That's really the heart of it.
00:07:55
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I grew up Muslim.
00:07:56
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I'm an immigrant.
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I'm from the African continent without getting really too much into it.
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And the gender roles are very strict and very real.
00:08:06
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And so I find myself growing up with this very deeply ingrained construct of a woman's role in society and a man's role in society.
00:08:13
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And there's nothing really spiritual about it.
00:08:15
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It's very clearly dictated in the Quran what a woman does and what a man does in the house down to like how they pray, who stands behind who, how you walk, who makes decisions, legalities, if they're bearing witness.
00:08:28
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And so joining the military is surrounded by men
00:08:32
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And having had a series of failed relationships, but having a liberal background, I decided maybe there's, I got to try something different.
00:08:41
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And maybe my view of gender dynamics as somebody who grew up in a Western world is not right.
00:08:48
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And maybe I need to like kind of hone in on my roots.
00:08:51
Speaker
And that's kind of when I looked for, you know, female submission, because it's huge in the Quran, but I wasn't religious.
00:08:58
Speaker
So I kind of just looked it up on Reddit.
00:09:01
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And this is like mid 2010s and I found Red Pill and it was like, oh God, men need to be the leaders of the house and women need to kind of understand the way men think.
00:09:16
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And so I really just dove deep into that.
00:09:19
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You grew up Muslim.
00:09:20
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So were your parents more conservative?
00:09:23
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Yeah.
00:09:23
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So growing up Muslim, it's interesting because you have your values, right?
00:09:28
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And then you have your party affiliation here in the U.S. And again, I'm from the African continent.
00:09:34
Speaker
So by U.S. standards, I'm black.
00:09:36
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And you're kind of just told what party you're affiliated with.
00:09:38
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So we came here and it was like, you're black now.
00:09:40
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Here's your party.
00:09:41
Speaker
You're a Democrat.
00:09:42
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Run with, you know.
00:09:44
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Go with the wind.
00:09:45
Speaker
And so, yes, we had conservative values at home, but we weren't Republican.
00:09:50
Speaker
We were Democrat.
00:09:51
Speaker
And that's fairly common, actually, here in the U.S. amongst, like, diaspora communities, actually.
00:09:56
Speaker
Right.
00:09:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:58
Speaker
So, but the way that you grew up, would you say that your parents kind of raised you to have more conservative values?
00:10:03
Speaker
And were you...
00:10:04
Speaker
a liberal like when you voted democrat did you have liberal values was that like a sort of like rebellion against your parents how did that work so i'm actually a gold star republican i've never voted liberal in my life um damn so i yeah yeah um so the cognitive dissonance was not lost on me i had conservative values but yes to answer your question um
00:10:29
Speaker
I did rebel against my parents by adopting these very liberal views, which were actually more in line with Democratic values than Republican values were.
00:10:39
Speaker
But it was one of those things that you just compartmentalize, right?
00:10:42
Speaker
So you have your conservative religious values, but you vote Democrat despite the Democrat standing for everything that goes against your diaspora's values.
00:10:50
Speaker
So, yeah, so socialism wrecked the country I'm from.
00:10:53
Speaker
So, like, a lot of these ideas that Democrats in general tend to posit and now progressives really rub people from my part of the world the wrong way, but still adhere to voting Democrat because that's just the way things are.
00:11:09
Speaker
And...
00:11:09
Speaker
when I was younger, I kind of just bought into it.
00:11:11
Speaker
It's like, I'm a Democrat, but then I came home with these ideas that like, I'm pro-gay marriage, I'm pro-abortion, I'm pro-all of these things that were starkly not Islamic.
00:11:21
Speaker
And so you just kind of didn't pay attention to that part.
00:11:25
Speaker
You were just still a Democrat.
00:11:27
Speaker
But maybe a conservative actually doesn't vibe
00:11:30
Speaker
It doesn't piss off my parents and the older generation as much as it really pisses off like my peers that actually have very liberal values.
00:11:38
Speaker
I think there's a difference between the liberal values voter and then the liberal voter who votes economically.
00:11:44
Speaker
Right.
00:11:45
Speaker
Or the liberal voter who votes because they just don't feel that there is a place for them in conservatism.
00:11:54
Speaker
Meaning they feel racially or culturally ostracized or antagonized specifically by conservatives.
00:12:00
Speaker
So then they feel, okay, I have to be a liberal and fight against what is essentially sometimes like a racialized caste system or racialized fascism coming from the right.
00:12:10
Speaker
But it doesn't mean that they don't, in a lot of respects, share some of their values.
00:12:14
Speaker
And you're starting to see, I think, a greater population of people of color and specifically a lot of Latinos who vote conservative, who are values voters like they have a lot of the conservative values in line, even if they economically might agree with liberals or if they agree.
00:12:34
Speaker
Even if they economically might agree with liberals or if they're sort of not really invested in liberal values, some of them are specifically against liberal values, especially if they come from cultures that have more conservative values that are informed by their traditional religious
Morality and Governance Debate
00:12:48
Speaker
values.
00:12:48
Speaker
They come from more patriarchal type culture.
00:12:50
Speaker
So, I mean, that's not odd.
00:12:53
Speaker
I have one question because you mentioned that you weren't religious, but you're still conservative.
00:12:57
Speaker
And so a lot of people assume that if you're conservative, it must mean you're part of the religious right and so on.
00:13:02
Speaker
So how does that work being conservative but not religious?
00:13:06
Speaker
Sorry if that's a dumb question.
00:13:08
Speaker
No, that's a great question because that was actually going to be my next point.
00:13:12
Speaker
Morality wasn't really a part of politics until Reagan era, Christian right, politics.
00:13:21
Speaker
you know, say no to drugs and bring morality back to America, bring God back to America.
00:13:25
Speaker
And then, I mean, you had that little stint in the fifties where, um, one nation under God was added to the, um,
00:13:32
Speaker
to the Pledge of Allegiance.
00:13:34
Speaker
So having political values here in the U.S. is two things.
00:13:39
Speaker
So one, you actually have political ideologies in which the way a government should interact with its constituents, right?
00:13:46
Speaker
And then you also have the morality-based system.
00:13:49
Speaker
And I think those two exist on both sides, right?
00:13:51
Speaker
So you have
00:13:53
Speaker
the social morality that the left is kind of emerging with now, with like the sacred topics that you just don't say anything about, which we won't get into, but the social issues that each side kind of panders to.
00:14:04
Speaker
But at its core and at its essence though, political values and moral values are really not the same thing.
00:14:13
Speaker
And I think in the U.S., we kind of shifted away from that because morality gets ratings
00:14:21
Speaker
And then you have that moral high ground of saying, well, you're wrong because Jesus, or you're wrong because equality, you're wrong because X, Y, and Z. And then now you've kind of taken facts out of the conversation and you've inserted this high ground that you really can't argue with.
00:14:37
Speaker
Like, what are you going to do?
00:14:38
Speaker
Call up Jesus?
00:14:39
Speaker
Have him show up?
00:14:40
Speaker
Dirt Easter?
00:14:41
Speaker
I don't know.
00:14:43
Speaker
That's kind of it.
00:14:44
Speaker
So, no, you don't have to be Christian to be conservative.
00:14:48
Speaker
But yes, you do find yourself at a party with a lot of Christians when you are a conservative and vice versa.
00:14:54
Speaker
It seems like everybody's scrambling to find the moral high ground, right?
00:14:59
Speaker
Where they feel that they're...
00:15:01
Speaker
personal values should shape government, right?
00:15:05
Speaker
So I'm not one of those people that thinks that like your moral values are completely devoid from the way that we govern.
00:15:13
Speaker
Clearly when we pass legislation, it's because we believe in some kind of principle to uphold.
00:15:20
Speaker
The question is always like, whose principles do we uphold and decide are the moral high ground, right?
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
So I think it's a little bit tough because when people are like, well, keep religion out of politics and separation of church and state, well, I completely and totally agree with that.
00:15:36
Speaker
It's like, what exactly constitutes religious values or moral values, right?
00:15:42
Speaker
Right now you're seeing two competing frameworks of moral values, one coming from academia and then one coming from your old school traditional sacred religious texts, right?
00:15:53
Speaker
So...
00:15:55
Speaker
These both have some kind of moral framework in which they view the world.
00:15:59
Speaker
The question is always whose values are going to be more effective for governing a populace?
00:16:06
Speaker
I think that's a false dichotomy that we've worked ourselves into that how do you define right if not without religion or some sort of like moral basis.
00:16:15
Speaker
But I think the real dichotomy here is the collective good vice the individual good.
00:16:21
Speaker
I think those are, that's the real spectrum that we're on that we've shifted away from, you know, before it was, Hey, do we do good by the individual or do we do good by all, but we've all kind of,
00:16:33
Speaker
broken up into, vulcanized essentially into these groups of who's more right than the other.
00:16:39
Speaker
But if everybody believes what they believe, then we're all right and we're all wrong and we stay in a state of chaos.
00:16:47
Speaker
And that gets into my more like conspiracy wingnut, irregular warfare type stuff, which I don't think you guys are trying to get into.
00:16:54
Speaker
But, um,
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, again, it's just a false dichotomy.
00:16:59
Speaker
I don't think morality has to be based.
00:17:01
Speaker
Morality has to be the conversation.
00:17:02
Speaker
It's just who's good are we serving?
00:17:04
Speaker
So the funny thing is that I think both sides think that their side is about the collective good and that the other side is bad and individualistic.
00:17:13
Speaker
Take abortion, for example.
00:17:15
Speaker
Left-wing people see abortion as all women need to have access to abortion because it's good for all of society to have rights or...
00:17:28
Speaker
how do I put it?
00:17:29
Speaker
Like it's good for all of society.
00:17:31
Speaker
If women are able to control their reproductive freedom.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:36
Speaker
And whereas conservatives see that as more of an individualistic thing.
00:17:39
Speaker
So they say that, no, we are against abortion because it's killing babies and, you know, we're speaking for the voiceless and, you know, to have an abortion is selfish and individualistic and so on.
00:17:51
Speaker
So I think like both sides think, see themselves as about collective good and that the other side, which is the right thing, and that the other side is selfish and individualistic.
00:18:01
Speaker
I don't know.
00:18:01
Speaker
I think it could go both ways.
00:18:02
Speaker
If you're really thinking about society on an individual level first, which is why I am a conservative, individual liberties at the smallest personal level, I think we could do a lot of good.
00:18:15
Speaker
And it is a little self-centered, but I think we think too macro too sometimes because in the US, you don't really have a lot of
00:18:25
Speaker
focus on the local level politics either.
00:18:28
Speaker
So if we take that like view of not just the individual of 365 million people, but really zoom it into the individual communities and the individual people and the individual areas where families, yeah, families, structures.
00:18:45
Speaker
And by individually, you mean like you don't think government should be involved in any type of way.
00:18:50
Speaker
I mean, I think balance is healthy.
00:18:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:53
Speaker
You know?
00:18:54
Speaker
You mean like, I guess what you're saying individual morality or supporting individual morality mean that like the idea that the government should not be involved in regulating morality?
00:19:05
Speaker
I think we should deregulate as much as possible to protect individual structures.
00:19:11
Speaker
So it's not just individuals, people, right?
00:19:14
Speaker
I think we conflate individual to just mean individual human beings.
00:19:17
Speaker
But no, we're talking about individual structures, too, like family structures, small businesses that aren't giant corporations.
00:19:24
Speaker
So basically...
00:19:26
Speaker
benefiting members of the society and not massive systems of society.
00:19:33
Speaker
I see what you're saying.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
I mean, and it's interesting because I think a lot, I think a lot of, I think a lot of liberals would say that as well, but they just sort of, they focus on individual, I mean, liberal is literally about like individual liberty, but it's more about cultural liberty versus government and
00:19:51
Speaker
economic liberally.
00:19:52
Speaker
Like when it comes to economics and government, they're more so about the collective action, but liberal in their cultural values.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:01
Speaker
And I mean, anybody who can say they are strictly one thing or the other or have 100%, you know, conservative or liberal values, then you're just brand loyal.
00:20:12
Speaker
You're not really loyal to actual values.
00:20:14
Speaker
Right.
00:20:15
Speaker
So there's a lot of that.
00:20:16
Speaker
There's a lot of just brand loyalty when it comes to politics.
00:20:19
Speaker
So which is why, which is why I think we think this is a good place to have a conversation because, you know,
00:20:24
Speaker
The one thing I'm hoping that we accomplish by launching Female Political Strategy and having multiple opinions is having these conversations that we just had where we can dissect a lot of the issues that are affecting women from multiple angles and then really discuss and parse out a strategy or a way forward that makes sense for the way that people actually live and not just from...
00:20:52
Speaker
strictly an ideological bent, which I think when you only listen to one side, you start to lean in towards an ideology that a lot of times alienates women, alienates women because it doesn't affect or seem to improve their actual practical reality.
00:21:06
Speaker
So I think by having these conversations with people, hopefully, you know, knock on wood, we'll get a wide variety of both conservative and liberal and all across the ideological spectrum.
00:21:19
Speaker
We'll get a
00:21:20
Speaker
a bunch of different guests to come and discuss their philosophy that we can start to parse out, okay, what issues are actually affecting women?
00:21:26
Speaker
How are these things being approached from women who are conservative versus women who are liberal?
00:21:31
Speaker
Where are the ideological bubbles that everyone's in?
00:21:34
Speaker
And then where can we find the practical way forward?
FDS Success and Dating Strategies
00:21:37
Speaker
I think why FDS specifically took off is because it offered a practical way forward for women when it came to dealing with their dating life that didn't come from like these ideological bubbles, you know, specifically we, we drag liberal feminism a lot of time, but we also drag traditional conservatives where there's a lot of, um, idea about how women should think and be in relation to men that just wasn't really strategically advantageous for us.
00:22:02
Speaker
Um,
00:22:02
Speaker
And wasn't reflective of our actual experience and was a lot of times based on a bunch of evil psych that was just outdated or sexist or being pushed on to women.
00:22:10
Speaker
Or just flat out wrong or flat out factually incorrect.
00:22:14
Speaker
Factually incorrect and pushed on to women as a control tactic, right?
00:22:18
Speaker
To, you know, a way to kind of slip patriarchy in in a way that seems like it's going to benefit us, right?
00:22:25
Speaker
So...
00:22:25
Speaker
And with that discussion, I kind of wanted to get into a little bit more of your experience with red pill women, because I know from talking to some of the other mods that especially early on with FDS, there was a lot of women who jumped ship from red pill women to FDS.
00:22:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:41
Speaker
And from what we heard from feedback that a big portion of them, they just wanted their dating lives to materially improve.
00:22:49
Speaker
And red pill women at least offered a way for them to like a strategy or a way for them to find some kind of camaraderie or.
00:22:58
Speaker
semblance of control over their dating life with other women.
00:23:01
Speaker
And then when they saw FDS take off, a lot of them were like, oh, this feels like way more effective and empowering than what red pill women was.
00:23:08
Speaker
So can we, can we talk about your journey to red pill women and what inspired you?
00:23:11
Speaker
I mean, for sure.
00:23:13
Speaker
The key word here is empowering.
00:23:14
Speaker
Um, because I grew up again, going back to my Muslim family, not necessarily my own inherent values, but my Muslim culture that was very familiar to me.
00:23:25
Speaker
The gender roles are very real, but again, I grew up in a very liberal environment of feminism and all of this stuff, and so I had a very broken understanding, all that underscored by the elephant in the room, which is my missing father.
00:23:38
Speaker
I didn't grow up with any example of...
00:23:42
Speaker
a healthy dynamic between a loving woman and a loving man.
00:23:46
Speaker
So that was never modeled for me.
00:23:48
Speaker
So I'm over here trying to intellectually understand what some people were just lucky enough to have been born into.
00:23:54
Speaker
And so in order to just make sense of it, my brain got involved.
00:23:58
Speaker
And I thought at first, like radical hating men, feminism was the way, and this is like pre-
00:24:05
Speaker
internet, pre-social media kind of way.
00:24:07
Speaker
And then I joined the military, found myself surrounded by men and listened to a lot of these men.
00:24:12
Speaker
And, you know, I just realized, like, I didn't know anything about men.
00:24:15
Speaker
I mean, I grew up with my mom and all of our sisters and most of my cousins were primarily women.
00:24:21
Speaker
I didn't know anything about men.
00:24:23
Speaker
Work.
00:24:23
Speaker
Huh?
00:24:25
Speaker
So you got lucky.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:27
Speaker
No, it was, it was feminine as fuck.
00:24:30
Speaker
So again, it wasn't healthy femininity because we were all missing our masculine figures.
00:24:36
Speaker
So there was no, there was nowhere that masculinity was modeled in such a way that resonated with you, except for these gender roles.
00:24:45
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:46
Speaker
Like a book and then going to the mosque and just being told that you will submit to your husband.
00:24:52
Speaker
And then it was kind of contradictory because I see my mom going out, kicking ass, supporting our family and my aunts doing the same thing in a country they don't speak the language of.
00:25:01
Speaker
So it just didn't make sense to me.
00:25:02
Speaker
It's like, why would I be subservient?
00:25:05
Speaker
Wait, this makes no sense.
00:25:07
Speaker
But I found Red Pill Woman after a divorce, a very, very young divorce.
00:25:13
Speaker
And another breakup.
00:25:14
Speaker
So it's just like, wait, how old were you when you got married?
00:25:16
Speaker
And how old were you when you got divorced?
00:25:18
Speaker
If you don't mind me asking.
00:25:19
Speaker
As in true military tradition, I got married at 18 and a half, almost 19.
00:25:24
Speaker
And then I was divorced by 23.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yep.
00:25:28
Speaker
Why do people in the military get married so young?
00:25:30
Speaker
That's wild to me.
00:25:32
Speaker
It's part of swearing in, support, defend the country, and get married as soon as they can.
00:25:35
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
00:25:37
Speaker
So... So, no.
00:25:41
Speaker
When you're enlisted, which I was... Was it a barracks wedding?
00:25:44
Speaker
It wasn't, actually.
00:25:46
Speaker
It was before all that.
00:25:47
Speaker
We genuinely believed we loved each other.
00:25:49
Speaker
We just weren't right for each other.
00:25:50
Speaker
I thought I knew everything, and he didn't know anything and took advantage of my negative time.
00:25:54
Speaker
And so...
00:25:56
Speaker
I just, like, again, like, I felt victimized.
00:25:59
Speaker
And, um, so.
00:26:01
Speaker
So you got married young and then divorced at 23 and then.
00:26:05
Speaker
And then I dated a guy, rebound, and it just didn't work.
00:26:08
Speaker
And then I found Reddit and I started exploring, like, why am I single?
00:26:13
Speaker
I swear to God, I think that's what I, like, looked up.
00:26:15
Speaker
And.
00:26:16
Speaker
I found Red Pill because I just wanted to do opposition research.
00:26:19
Speaker
It's like, what do men think?
00:26:22
Speaker
And I started probably in the worst place to start, which is Red Pill, where it's men talking about how you need to be a man, own up.
00:26:31
Speaker
And at the time, it was about spinning plates and all this stuff.
00:26:34
Speaker
But I dug deeper and deeper and deeper and found this grain, this
00:26:39
Speaker
thread of, you know, being a man, being a leader, taking accountability, being the best that you can, and finding a woman that is your subordinate, but like your partner in crime.
00:26:50
Speaker
So like your deputy, because two people that are the same can't be together because there's no complementary nature.
00:26:57
Speaker
And that resonated with me because in the military, it's all about leader subordination, you know, order discipline, like those energies, someone sets the order, someone follows the orders that made sense to me.
00:27:09
Speaker
And so I fell into it.
00:27:12
Speaker
I found red pill woman.
00:27:13
Speaker
Like, how do I follow these instructions as a woman?
00:27:15
Speaker
And they spoke all the right words.
00:27:17
Speaker
They were like, you need to understand your captain, what his needs are, what your wants are.
00:27:21
Speaker
And in the military, that's how you relate to your commanding officer.
00:27:25
Speaker
That's how you relate to your hierarchy.
00:27:27
Speaker
You follow.
00:27:29
Speaker
But the flip side of that is it's not a relationship.
00:27:33
Speaker
It's an employment contract.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
You do things, you follow things, you tell each other.
00:27:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:39
Speaker
Damn.
00:27:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:40
Speaker
That blew my mind.
00:27:41
Speaker
It's not a relationship.
00:27:42
Speaker
It's an employment contract.
00:27:44
Speaker
Shit.
00:27:46
Speaker
That's a brilliant analogy.
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:47
Speaker
That's a brilliant way of putting it.
00:27:49
Speaker
And I, and I find your journey resonates with me a little bit.
00:27:52
Speaker
Um, I didn't get married young, but as a person who grew up in evangelical Christian circles, the concept of like
00:27:59
Speaker
submission for women and then headship for men and then men trying to be like leaders and women having to submit to men was heavily pushed by that culture and community.
00:28:08
Speaker
So that was the framework in which, yeah, that was the framework in which I understood relationships for probably the first part of my life.
00:28:16
Speaker
But then you just get out into the real world and realize like, okay, a lot of these motherfuckers are stupid.
00:28:21
Speaker
Why would you submit to these?
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:23
Speaker
Spoiler alert.
00:28:24
Speaker
You just experienced enough men where you're like, why would anybody put them in charge of anything?
00:28:29
Speaker
If you're a woman who you are the type of person to take responsibility for yourself, you want to have a relationship and you want to have a relationship where you feel respected.
00:28:41
Speaker
the conservative values don't offer much by that kind of explanation.
00:28:46
Speaker
And specifically, I remember there was a book that was being pushed in Christian circles called Love and Respect.
00:28:52
Speaker
And the entire basis of the book was that like men need respect to feel loved and women need love to feel respected.
00:28:58
Speaker
And I remember reading this, like, this seems like horseshit.
00:29:00
Speaker
I need respect to
00:29:00
Speaker
feel respected like but there's a lot of um like mumbo jumbo evil psych but like christian psychology framing of these types of relationships and they ultimately just left me feeling very empty and looking for something else it's almost like religion is like affirmative action for shitty men
00:29:22
Speaker
You said it.
00:29:23
Speaker
Honestly, what you're describing there is like a completely alien concept to me because like the.
00:29:29
Speaker
OK, so I also I mean, I had a father growing up, but he was very, you know, he like worked a lot.
00:29:37
Speaker
So it wasn't like they're like involved.
00:29:38
Speaker
Right.
00:29:39
Speaker
But.
00:29:40
Speaker
you know, in my family, you know, we were raised pretty progressive and like a lot of the women in my family are, you know, career women, like, you know, super strong, empowered, badass, you can go out and get shit done.
00:29:51
Speaker
And a lot of the men in my family are incompetent, like alcoholics, like fuck ups.
00:29:55
Speaker
Right.
00:29:55
Speaker
So for me, the idea of like men are supposed to be leaders and women are supposed to submit to them.
00:30:00
Speaker
It's like insane to me.
00:30:02
Speaker
Like, why would you put an incompetent person in charge?
00:30:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:06
Speaker
Right.
00:30:06
Speaker
So growing up, I'm like, you know what?
00:30:08
Speaker
Men are just kind of fucking stupid.
00:30:10
Speaker
And like, why would anyone ever listen to them?
00:30:12
Speaker
Like women should be in charge.
00:30:13
Speaker
This is stupid.
00:30:14
Speaker
You know?
00:30:15
Speaker
So I'm like, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that.
00:30:18
Speaker
However,
00:30:20
Speaker
You know, because when I look at red pill women, I'm like, why would anyone ever fall for that?
00:30:24
Speaker
But then again, I used to think that having porn sex with my boyfriend was fun and sexy and empowering.
00:30:28
Speaker
So, I mean, like, you know, we've all had clown moments in the past.
00:30:30
Speaker
You do.
00:30:31
Speaker
You do.
00:30:32
Speaker
And like the circus is a part of life.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:40
Speaker
Like, we all go through the carnival, and then you leave with, like, a clown hangover.
00:30:46
Speaker
You wipe the makeup off, and you're like, okay, I'm going to find the right shade of foundation.
00:30:51
Speaker
I used to think that Polly, like, when my boyfriend wanted to do Polly, I was like, oh my gosh, he's, like, so sad because I'm not, like, living in the same country as him.
00:30:59
Speaker
I should let him fuck other women.
00:31:01
Speaker
I thought that was okay, right?
00:31:02
Speaker
So, I mean, we've all had clown moments from different, you know, whether it's left wing, right wing, I don't know.
00:31:07
Speaker
Like, all of this is not beneficial to women.
00:31:10
Speaker
Honestly, equal opportunity clownery on every side.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
It's equal opportunity.
00:31:15
Speaker
And so.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:17
Speaker
That dynamic to me was like, I get this.
00:31:20
Speaker
But I think structure is something we all fundamentally crave as people in terms of hierarchy of needs.
00:31:26
Speaker
It provides security.
00:31:28
Speaker
But once you have security, you don't have that emotional enrichment.
00:31:31
Speaker
Now you feel safe enough to relate.
00:31:33
Speaker
But that relationship will never be there because you had no standard for him to be emotionally mature in the first place.
00:31:39
Speaker
And so now I was left with these empty-ass relationships and one relationship where we were...
00:31:46
Speaker
I was his deputy.
00:31:47
Speaker
He was the leader.
00:31:49
Speaker
Great guy.
00:31:49
Speaker
Got everything done.
00:31:50
Speaker
We were vibing.
00:31:52
Speaker
This guy didn't even know when I was sad.
00:31:54
Speaker
Right?
00:31:55
Speaker
And I didn't think anything of it.
00:31:59
Speaker
I thought nothing of it.
00:32:01
Speaker
I was like, I'll leave it for my girlfriend's emotional intimacy is just too much for him.
00:32:05
Speaker
No, the fuck it's not.
00:32:08
Speaker
It's not.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:10
Speaker
It seems like there was a psyop on both sides to create these competing narratives that ultimately always benefit men.
00:32:16
Speaker
Lilith representing what we've come to discuss as sex posi culture and these liberal values being a psyop for men to sexually exploit women.
00:32:26
Speaker
It's not even just her.
00:32:27
Speaker
This is something that's been discussed in feminist circles going back since the first sex wars, right?
00:32:32
Speaker
Since like the 60s and 70s.
00:32:34
Speaker
And a lot of women who were part of the free love movement coming to the exact same conclusion.
00:32:38
Speaker
A lot of them ping pong to become like what they would call Jesus freaks where they were like...
00:32:43
Speaker
They were like Christian liberals, essentially, but they were women that walked away from the more swinging lifestyles, et cetera, et cetera, because they felt very much that this became another ideological framework in which men just used it to coerce women into some kind of sexual or sexual emotional relationship exploitation.
Framework for Women's Benefit
00:33:03
Speaker
So I think what made FDS really subversive is that like...
00:33:07
Speaker
We're actually creating a framework and doing it unapologetically to where we think it actually benefits women the most.
00:33:15
Speaker
Which kinds of things are actually going to make us happier and healthier and put us at an equal footing in our relationships where we actually feel valued and respected and also sexually expressive, right?
00:33:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
There's the argument that the left goes too far with the sex exploitation and then you go on the conservative side and it's just all sexual repression.
00:33:37
Speaker
So obviously neither of those things are great for women.
00:33:40
Speaker
So forging a path forward with FDS to me has meant that we're actually having this conversation and parsing out these nuances in a way that I wish feminist media had really done before, but I guess it's up to us.
00:33:51
Speaker
It's up to us, ladies.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, to recraft, to colonize the narrative.
00:33:56
Speaker
Let's take it back.
00:33:57
Speaker
It almost feels like on both the left and the right, it's almost, you know, you've said that it's like a sign up to maximize men's benefit, but it almost feels like...
00:34:07
Speaker
You know, if, if women, if maximizing female benefit is not your number one goal and women's rights are always going to be an afterthought, then it's, you're never going to achieve, you know, you have to be specific about your goals, right?
00:34:20
Speaker
And if that's not your goal, it's not going to happen.
00:34:23
Speaker
Um, if you're not consciously working towards that goal, you're not going to achieve it.
00:34:26
Speaker
And so, you know, that's,
00:34:28
Speaker
What comes to mind is, you know, I used to run in like, I used to call myself a Marxist.
00:34:31
Speaker
I know I used to run in Marxist circles.
00:34:33
Speaker
Girl, I was like, I was a red pillar.
00:34:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:36
Speaker
So we've all, you know, yeah, yeah.
00:34:40
Speaker
Right.
00:34:40
Speaker
We go off the cloud card.
00:34:46
Speaker
So one of the things that was weird to me in Marxist circles is even though like Marxists are supposed to be, you know, pro-female or supposed to believe in like male and female equality, it was weird to me how they didn't really have a plan specifically for women.
00:35:03
Speaker
Like talking to socialist men, they'd be like...
00:35:05
Speaker
oh yeah, once we create, once we like, you know, rise up and overtake the bourgeoisie and create a, you know, communist utopia, then things are just going to naturally, you know, be beneficial to women.
00:35:16
Speaker
They had this like magical thinking that once we achieve revolution or whatever, then everything's going to be great for women.
00:35:24
Speaker
And like the whole reason why women are suffering is because of capitalism.
00:35:27
Speaker
And like, once we overthrow capitalism, it's going to be great.
00:35:29
Speaker
And that at the time that kind of like, I kind of bought it, but now that, you know, as I got older, I'm like,
00:35:35
Speaker
And also, as I learned history, first of all, the more I realized that if you're not putting women first, like, women are always going to be, like, a lower priority.
00:35:46
Speaker
Or it's not going to happen, so.
00:35:48
Speaker
They will use any kind of available political system to figure out a way to sexually exploit women.
00:35:53
Speaker
That is the primary goal of males.
00:35:56
Speaker
Do you guys want to know, like, a U.S. military, like, secret?
00:36:00
Speaker
Not, like, classified secret.
00:36:01
Speaker
NSA don't get me.
00:36:04
Speaker
If you want to overthrow a regime,
00:36:06
Speaker
Number one thing that they literally tell special operations is educate, liberate the women from the patriarchy, whatever the local structures are.
00:36:14
Speaker
Makes sense.
00:36:15
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:36:16
Speaker
So we know.
00:36:17
Speaker
The men know, right?
00:36:19
Speaker
And the paradigm within the red pill side that I think actually very much so complements the liberal side is...
00:36:27
Speaker
Let me just underline by saying, like, men believe that women hold the key to sex and men hold the key to, like, marriage or whatever long-term end state that she has.
00:36:36
Speaker
So how do you get your needs met?
00:36:39
Speaker
So you bang on the liberal side all these sex posi libfems that are like, oh my god, my vagina's the world's.
00:36:46
Speaker
Abundance and all that.
00:36:47
Speaker
Pussy is power.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:50
Speaker
And then they get run through, feel empty, and they're like, cool, let me lock down a trad wife that's like, please marry me, daddy.
00:36:56
Speaker
I'll cook for you every day.
00:36:58
Speaker
And so either way, we fucking lose.
00:37:01
Speaker
And they've created this false illusion of two teams of women that are getting fucked over by shitty dick.
00:37:08
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:37:10
Speaker
Round of applause.
00:37:13
Speaker
As you can see, this is why we love Elle and this is why we had her as our co-host, as our conservative co-host.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really excited by having this conversation because I feel like, especially with your military background, like having that insight to... Military strategy.
00:37:29
Speaker
I'm like, hell yeah, girl.
00:37:30
Speaker
Military strategy.
00:37:31
Speaker
But also just like that culture, having an understanding of that culture is so key, right?
00:37:37
Speaker
Because there's a lot of women who are part of working class or also part of the military or who come from a background who date people in the military.
00:37:45
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:37:47
Speaker
Don't touch them.
00:37:48
Speaker
Don't touch the wildlife.
00:37:50
Speaker
I feel like at this point, which profession haven't we crossed off as far as like... Every profession is scrotie.
00:37:56
Speaker
Male nurses?
00:37:57
Speaker
I think male nurses are okay.
00:37:59
Speaker
I've heard from female nurses.
00:38:01
Speaker
Male nurses sometimes have God complexes.
00:38:04
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that was crossed off.
00:38:05
Speaker
There was like a post on the subreddit a few months ago about, you know, what professions not today.
00:38:10
Speaker
And I honestly, I think every profession was on there.
00:38:14
Speaker
It was literally everyone.
00:38:15
Speaker
Every single person.
00:38:17
Speaker
Don't date a dude.
00:38:18
Speaker
Okay, just don't date him.
00:38:22
Speaker
But like, one thing I learned about men though, and I love men by like biological imprisonment.
00:38:28
Speaker
I wish I didn't, like I wish I could consent to my attraction to men.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'm heterosexual and I'm pissed off about it.
00:38:33
Speaker
I'm really resentful that I'm heterosexual.
00:38:36
Speaker
I didn't choose this.
00:38:38
Speaker
It chose me.
00:38:39
Speaker
So I did not choose to be this way.
00:38:42
Speaker
But one thing I learned about them is give a man a standard and a goal and a desired end state and they will fucking meet it.
00:38:49
Speaker
They will go.
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah, we'll do whatever they need to do to be successful.
00:38:55
Speaker
And so like these women that are like, let me just give him the pussy and then he'll want to pay me back.
00:38:59
Speaker
No, bitch, you did nothing.
00:39:01
Speaker
No, you gave him what he wanted.
00:39:03
Speaker
He had to work for nothing.
00:39:04
Speaker
You know what he's going to do?
00:39:05
Speaker
Not value you and vice versa.
00:39:07
Speaker
The women on the red pill side that are dogs carrying around their own leash, like, hey, somebody own me, somebody own you.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah, he'll own you.
00:39:17
Speaker
He'll own you.
00:39:18
Speaker
But he's not going to feel any... You'll just be a dog on a leash that does things for him.
00:39:24
Speaker
So we need to set that priority of saying, I get it.
00:39:28
Speaker
You're a man and you're different from me.
00:39:30
Speaker
This is how I operate.
00:39:32
Speaker
This is what I need.
00:39:33
Speaker
You're going to meet it or else I'm going to find somebody who's willing to do it because I'm fucking gold.
00:39:38
Speaker
And they'll do it.
00:39:39
Speaker
Period.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:42
Speaker
I actually find men are actually really great at taking orders.
00:39:45
Speaker
They are.
00:39:46
Speaker
Tell us.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:48
Speaker
Like if you say like, this is what I want, they'll go off and do it and then come back and be like, tell me I'm a good boy.
00:39:54
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, you're a good boy.
00:39:56
Speaker
You know?
00:39:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:58
Speaker
So with that though, I know a lot of women complain to having to give men orders because of the fact that it is so exhausting to be the manager for men.
00:40:06
Speaker
Yeah, the mental load.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yeah, doing the mental load.
00:40:10
Speaker
And I think, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, Al, it's like a lot of the appeal of red pill women is that with red pillars, they at least have this like mentality that you're supposed to like own your shit or like be the captain of your own ship.
00:40:25
Speaker
It comes with a ton of misogyny and like expectation that women's
00:40:27
Speaker
submit to them, but like, it doesn't give them as much as an excuse to be like a layabout.
00:40:33
Speaker
And actually I would say conservative culture in general, because I would say this is, this is very true of a lot of Christian circles.
00:40:38
Speaker
The idea that a man's job is to work, to provide, to be actively involved, to be an effective leader, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:40:47
Speaker
So part of the appeal of being a red pill woman is that you don't have to like making decisions and being in charge is mentally exhausting and you can leave the leadership aspect to someone else.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:40:58
Speaker
But FDS just says that's being an adult.
00:41:01
Speaker
The thing about that is they think they deserve special status for doing adult things, whereas FDS is like, no, that just makes you an effective member of society.
00:41:09
Speaker
You don't get kudos and brownie points to get to be the boss of me because you showed up and did laundry once.
00:41:15
Speaker
You showed up to work.
00:41:15
Speaker
Congrats.
00:41:16
Speaker
Now do your job.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
And men do want a pat on the back.
00:41:20
Speaker
And I mean, going back to, I think, I don't know if it was you, Lilith O'Rourke, that said it, but...
00:41:25
Speaker
You don't have to manage.
00:41:26
Speaker
Just set your standards and pay attention to your standards.
00:41:30
Speaker
Don't sit there and think that because he communicated out into the wilderness that he heard you, they don't even think in the same English language that we do.
00:41:39
Speaker
And I speak multiple languages.
00:41:40
Speaker
They don't understand any of them.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, men don't, like communication doesn't work with men.
00:41:47
Speaker
The only language they speak is consequences and rewards.
00:41:51
Speaker
is consequence and action yeah the communication thing is real that we talk about this about how on the subreddit it's really easy to id men who are larping as women after a while because they just fundamentally do not communicate the way that we communicate they don't understand they don't understand the framework in which we understand life and they'll just always like for whatever reason they always tip their hand and it's really easy to spot after a while and it's been kind of a surprising thing it's
00:42:17
Speaker
so obvious like hello fellow females yes yes what's up with our vaginas today what
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, literally.
00:42:26
Speaker
So obvious.
00:42:27
Speaker
Did everybody get their period?
00:42:28
Speaker
Man, this period sucks.
00:42:32
Speaker
So, and I mean, don't get me wrong.
00:42:35
Speaker
I love, love, love men.
00:42:37
Speaker
And I guess in a way, as much as I love liberals, they're very different and I don't agree with them most of the time, but we need to coexist peacefully, right?
Empowering Women and Challenging Gender Roles
00:42:45
Speaker
Was it Bush that said, I know humans and fish can coexist peacefully?
00:42:49
Speaker
Like,
00:42:50
Speaker
I know that women and men can coexist peacefully if we just learn the rules of the road for both of us.
00:42:57
Speaker
And yes, that requires a little bit of accountability as a woman, which drew me to FDS.
00:43:01
Speaker
It felt like I found a gang of self-aware sisters that were holding each other accountable, telling each other, hey, have standards, bitch up, do what you need to do, and be your best self to yourself first, and
00:43:15
Speaker
Don't be a pick me.
00:43:16
Speaker
Don't be a slave to this desire of wanting a man.
00:43:19
Speaker
Because if you're like needy, you're just going to get a man who has no self-worth and derives his self-worth from you needing him.
00:43:25
Speaker
And that's gross.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:26
Speaker
And I, that's, that's a big thing that drew me to FDS too, is because having been on both sides of the, on both sides of the culture, I'll having, having grown up Christian and then gone on to become like a, a liberal elite.
00:43:40
Speaker
Um, yeah,
00:43:42
Speaker
I started to feel like I just didn't like the victim politics of either.
00:43:45
Speaker
Right.
00:43:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:47
Speaker
I was about to say the same thing.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's, that's another thing that I think a lot of conservative women get turned off by mainstream feminism is the endless, even, even both rad films and lib films have the victimhood narratives that I think turns off a lot of women.
00:44:03
Speaker
Nobody likes to see themselves as like powerless and a victim and so on.
00:44:07
Speaker
And even when you are,
00:44:08
Speaker
oppressed even if you are an actual victim like literally like women in abusive relationships don't see them as see themselves as victims of an abusive relationship often they'll end up like blaming themselves or and do you want to see a way out as well like you don't yeah like it's actually feel it's psychologically uncomfortable to see yourself as a victim for a lot of people
00:44:29
Speaker
Well, and it's not effective, right?
00:44:31
Speaker
You can be a victim, but also take responsibility.
00:44:33
Speaker
I don't want to take away from anybody because I know part of the reason why there's an emphasis on victimhood politics is to validate that a lot of women are victims because before there was so much victim blaming in our culture.
00:44:47
Speaker
And I do feel that there's been a need to validate the victimhood of women, but at the same time, how do we move forward in a way that's not just forever victim politics?
00:44:58
Speaker
Because when you keep appealing to empathy and appealing to victim politics, you have this assumption that men care.
00:45:04
Speaker
And the problem is they just don't care.
00:45:06
Speaker
And I don't mean to set up to be funny, but like when you look at how women live in countries where they don't have a lot of rights, you start to realize like they will literally have us like hopping around on one foot in our backyards, never doing shit.
00:45:19
Speaker
Foot binding.
00:45:19
Speaker
Yeah, foot binding or doing nothing before they'll admit that they're the problem.
00:45:23
Speaker
So when you just keep trying to appeal to the empathy of a group that just doesn't give a shit, then you're always going to be in a losing position.
00:45:31
Speaker
So while I think it's important to validate when women are victimized and the idea that men should be held accountable for victimizing women, I think it's also important for us to not fall into victimhood narratives so that we're actually strategically advancing our own rights.
00:45:49
Speaker
Right.
00:45:49
Speaker
Right.
00:45:50
Speaker
And it just feels like all of liberal feminism has become this victimhood narrative about everyone's varying identities and like intersectionality, which is like a bastardized version of what intersectionality was actually meant.
00:46:03
Speaker
It's now victim Olympics.
00:46:04
Speaker
Like.
00:46:04
Speaker
Victim Olympics.
00:46:05
Speaker
And then on the conservative side, it seems like there's a little bit more of self-efficacy, but then you just get into a lot of slut-shamey behavior, right?
00:46:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:46:16
Speaker
Like too much victim blame.
00:46:17
Speaker
On the right, there's way too much victim blaming.
00:46:19
Speaker
On the left, there's way too much lack of personal accountability.
00:46:23
Speaker
I know that personal accountability has been coded as this right wing.
00:46:26
Speaker
If you talk about personal accountability, you're a conservative.
00:46:29
Speaker
But at the same time, I think that
00:46:31
Speaker
You know, I read a lot about victim blaming, and one of the things that annoys me a little bit about the discussion is that, you know, discussion around, like, what can a woman do to prevent herself from being victimized as seen as victim blaming?
00:46:46
Speaker
But at the same time...
00:46:48
Speaker
You know, if you want, you know, say like male violence, like if you want men to stop being violent to women, you know, women have to do something about it because men want it to continue.
00:46:56
Speaker
Right.
00:46:57
Speaker
Like women are the only ones who want things to change.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:59
Speaker
You have to do something.
00:47:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:01
Speaker
So if you're the one who want things to change, you're you're the one, even if it's not your fault, you know, even if it's, you know, someone else aggressing towards you, if you want to change things, then you're the one who's going to have to do something about it.
00:47:14
Speaker
But I actually think that conservative women do think they're changing things.
00:47:19
Speaker
They just think that they're changing things within the patriarchal structure by adhering to it, right?
00:47:26
Speaker
Meaning that they are bringing a feminine voice to what is a patriarchal structure.
00:47:32
Speaker
And so...
00:47:33
Speaker
They just kind of have this attitude, like if they adhere to these values, then first of all, A, they'll be protected.
00:47:40
Speaker
It'll work out for them.
00:47:41
Speaker
And sometimes they do enjoy more privileged social status.
00:47:46
Speaker
To me, it seems similar to a lot of the women who think like, oh, if I just like do everything like the boys do, then I'll be in a similar situation.
00:47:56
Speaker
I'll be respected, but it's just you can't they won't respect you because you're not playing you're playing by their rules.
00:48:02
Speaker
So I think I just want to delineate between two groups, the religious conservatives and the non religious, like the ideal ideological conservatives, because I think you find a lot more of that, you know.
00:48:16
Speaker
morality-based, patriarchy-honoring problem within the religious side of the house than you do in the ideological conservatism where it's like individual liberty, individual accountability.
00:48:26
Speaker
I get you're a victim.
00:48:27
Speaker
I validate your experience.
00:48:29
Speaker
Well, how do we move past it?
00:48:31
Speaker
But I guess there is something to be said with not always being a squeaky wheel, right?
00:48:36
Speaker
Like, at the end of the day, we have to coexist with men.
00:48:39
Speaker
We have to coexist and
00:48:40
Speaker
And get along at some point.
00:48:42
Speaker
And some of us are attracted to them, so we can't malign them 24-7.
00:48:47
Speaker
So in a way, I think there's something to be said about learning how to work within the system instead of breaking it so it only fits us.
00:48:54
Speaker
So how do we find balance where we're acknowledging where the system doesn't serve us as women and violate some of our needs and our purposes?
00:49:03
Speaker
I think with FDS, like we're just running towards the other direction and we'll figure it out when we when that happens.
00:49:07
Speaker
I mean, I'm not even being funny.
00:49:08
Speaker
It's like we're purposely trying to shift some of the Overton window of conversation because quite frankly, because we know what patriarchy looks like.
00:49:15
Speaker
We've had thousands of years of what that looks like.
00:49:17
Speaker
What what like what realistically does like female supremacy or like matriarchy look like?
00:49:23
Speaker
We have no idea.
00:49:25
Speaker
I have no idea what that actually functionally looks like.
00:49:27
Speaker
But we can start in our personal relationships, right?
00:49:31
Speaker
Where we can be the boss and the leaders of our own relationships.
00:49:34
Speaker
And it doesn't necessarily have to be this like femdom type deal, but like it can be one where you leave.
00:49:40
Speaker
I love femdom.
00:49:41
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
00:49:42
Speaker
That's Lilith.
00:49:44
Speaker
Oh my gosh, Lilith.
00:49:45
Speaker
Don't you hate there has to be a sexual kink for a woman who wants to be and feel like she's in power in a relationship?
00:49:51
Speaker
It has to be kink, yeah.
00:49:52
Speaker
It has to be fetishized.
00:49:53
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's not about a sexual kink, okay?
00:49:57
Speaker
It's just I like to be in control of my life and I like men who do things for me.
00:50:03
Speaker
fame.
00:50:04
Speaker
And I get what you're saying, Ro.
00:50:06
Speaker
And so it's kind of just normalizing it.
00:50:09
Speaker
Just normalizing that you have standards and you are going to date around and not sleep.
00:50:14
Speaker
And I'm speaking on a very micro level where it's just interpersonal, right?
00:50:17
Speaker
Where it's like, I'm not going to sleep around.
00:50:19
Speaker
I'm not going to allow porn in my relationship.
00:50:22
Speaker
And I'm going to be single and have fun until I find a guy who's willing to accept my standards.
00:50:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
If you're just that boss enough, they'll be like,
00:50:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:33
Speaker
I guess.
00:50:33
Speaker
Yeah, I'll work with it.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah, they don't have a choice.
00:50:36
Speaker
The thing about this is like men always, they always, there's always like some big like push and surge where they throw a tantrum about whatever women are going to try to do for themselves to make them more effective.
00:50:48
Speaker
But then it's like, what are you going to do?
00:50:49
Speaker
Stop trying to have sex with us if we do it.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:51
Speaker
No, they're never going to stop.
00:50:52
Speaker
Like they know, like they're, they're slaves to their biology.
00:50:55
Speaker
And that kind of means it's like, if I even think I said this in the Gail Dines episode, if every woman got a PhD, then PhDs would be sexy.
00:51:01
Speaker
That's just the way it is.
00:51:02
Speaker
They're not, they're going to figure out.
00:51:03
Speaker
Or then they're just going to have to fuck people, women, PhDs.
00:51:06
Speaker
They're just going to have to deal.
00:51:07
Speaker
She's a commie doctor.
00:51:10
Speaker
There's no, there's nothing they can do about that.
00:51:11
Speaker
That's why they always try to like shut down the conversation and have like this, like initial, this initial surge of like complete onslaught of like antagonizing, attacking, making sure these ideas never take hold because if they take hold, it's a wrap for them.
00:51:26
Speaker
And they know that they're going to have to either shape up or, you know,
00:51:30
Speaker
or die alone basically and like men have literally said the reason why i hate fds is because it's gonna make my dating life harder that is literally what they've said yep and it's like good it should be harder good i'm seeing a guy who like literally always asks me like what is the appeal of fds is that practically like themselves i'm like no i mean you're dating me right are you happy he's like yeah
00:51:54
Speaker
Wait, you talk about FDS with men?
00:51:56
Speaker
How does that work?
00:51:57
Speaker
Because I just keep that shit to myself.
00:52:00
Speaker
I don't show my enemy my playbook.
00:52:02
Speaker
The guys who aren't like shitty don't care.
00:52:04
Speaker
I don't care.
00:52:05
Speaker
It's like, this is who I am.
00:52:07
Speaker
I'm pretty dope.
00:52:09
Speaker
And there's parts of me that will make you uncomfortable.
00:52:12
Speaker
Like parts of you make me uncomfortable.
00:52:13
Speaker
Take it or leave it.
00:52:15
Speaker
Actually, one of the things I've learned from dealing with men over the years is that after the initial tantrum, there's just not shit they can do unless they plan on doing Taliban style and trying to line us up and all shoot us.
00:52:29
Speaker
But even then, even with the women that were protesting, even the Taliban was loathed to...
00:52:34
Speaker
actually gun down a bunch of women like the optics of that who's gonna have your babies who's gonna be here but also i'm also like super pro second amendment for that reason because in the south where it's like super pro second amendment and i carry a big purse they don't know what i'm carrying
00:52:51
Speaker
See, that's crazy to me as a Canadian that Americans, like, this is a stereotype that I have of Americans, that everyone just walks around with a handgun in their purse.
00:53:00
Speaker
In Texas?
00:53:00
Speaker
And, you know, you're seconds away from a shootout at any moment.
00:53:03
Speaker
In Texas?
00:53:04
Speaker
It depends on the state.
00:53:05
Speaker
Yeah, it depends on the state.
00:53:06
Speaker
It depends on the city and the state.
00:53:08
Speaker
And more gun...
00:53:10
Speaker
strict states and cities you'll find gun violence actually really high because a lot of people aren't armed but like try to shoot up anything in texas right and like most people are gonna be armed save for the el paso thing that's the understanding is if a lot of good guys are armed it'll de-incentivize a lot of bad guys i carry one because i'm a small woman and i want to shoot the guy like that's that's it
00:53:30
Speaker
So, okay, as much as I am skeptical, I mean, okay, I'm not anti-gun, but I do think that gun control, I'm happy with Canada's gun control laws for the most part.
00:53:42
Speaker
But the merit of a lot of people having guns is that literally no one could invade the U.S.,
00:53:48
Speaker
There's like a gun behind every blade of grass.
00:53:51
Speaker
The U.S. is uninvatable.
00:53:52
Speaker
So I'm kind of glad that you I'm kind of glad you guys are our neighbors.
00:53:56
Speaker
Like we got you, Canada.
00:53:58
Speaker
We're armed to the teeth.
00:54:00
Speaker
Right.
00:54:00
Speaker
And that's the argument that a lot of conservatives make against like Canadians is that like you guys can be the way you are because we are the way we are.
00:54:08
Speaker
Right.
00:54:09
Speaker
Like because you have your big brother, Americans who will defend you.
00:54:13
Speaker
Right.
00:54:13
Speaker
Because they're all arms and teeth over here.
00:54:15
Speaker
The psycho, like, rednecks next door that, like, shoot off fireworks all year round.
00:54:21
Speaker
But, like, you know nothing bad's gonna happen.
00:54:23
Speaker
Thanks, Daddy America.
00:54:25
Speaker
The really effective part of FDS is that we have actually started to shift the conversation, make women feel like they actually have some real control over their life.
00:54:33
Speaker
For the average quote unquote normie woman, obviously there's always outliers.
00:54:36
Speaker
And every time we make these definitive claims, someone's always like, well, I'm not like that, or I don't believe this, or I like this, et cetera, et cetera.
00:54:44
Speaker
For the average woman, plotting out a map forward to a place where we can actually start our negotiations with men, right?
00:54:52
Speaker
Because right now I feel like we're in a compromised position on both sides.
00:54:57
Speaker
Right.
00:54:58
Speaker
So as much as we talk about like women having a lot of choices, the problem with the absence of some kind of standard.
00:55:05
Speaker
And I think we touched on this a little bit on the in the episode we did with Zoe and overall gender roles is that when we got rid of the idea of gender roles, gender roles were also serving as a peace treaty in some respects between men and women.
00:55:19
Speaker
And without the gender roles, you're seeing a lot of exploitation happen because men are just taking
00:55:25
Speaker
the quote unquote tactical advantage, right?
00:55:27
Speaker
They're just taking whatever benefits them and then trying to sell that or pressure women into that.
00:55:34
Speaker
And I think the next frontier of gender relations is sort of women actually pushing forward a narrative to balance out the amount of men who are taking the parts of feminism, et cetera, that they agree with and want to exploit to their benefit and rejecting the other ones and being realistic about it too, right?
00:55:51
Speaker
Like you're not going to be able to
00:55:53
Speaker
um, socialize certain aspects of maleness out of them.
00:55:57
Speaker
And I think that's, uh, yeah, that's been the big, uh, that's been the big thing that like made me crack with, uh, you know, mainstream live, um, like the, even red femmes have this idea that, um, you know, oh, men are the way that they are because they've been socialized this way.
00:56:12
Speaker
And I'm like,
00:56:14
Speaker
I feel like testosterone is a pretty big influence on male behavior.
00:56:20
Speaker
I don't know if you've ever been to a farm, but when rams are bashing their skulls against each other, they're not doing that because they were socialized to be that way.
00:56:29
Speaker
They're doing that because they have testosterone.
00:56:31
Speaker
I saw daddy ram and uncle ram fight it out.
00:56:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm fighting it.
00:56:35
Speaker
I think there's, it's also worth noting that biologically and going back to like our evolutionary purposes, women do relate more by talking and building relationships because we literally, we, we are all we had in the past.
00:56:50
Speaker
It behooves the human evolution.
00:56:52
Speaker
It behooves the human race for women to be able to do that.
00:56:56
Speaker
To relate, to like each other, to trust each other.
00:56:58
Speaker
Cause he trusts, we trusted each other with our babies.
00:57:00
Speaker
We raised, it takes a village really well.
00:57:02
Speaker
really mean something i mostly agree with that the own thing is i think human beings like our great strength as a species is our ability to collaborate with one another not just women but men too and if you look at if you look at how you know humans are different from like other species a lot of species are um are not social like they'll you know the male will like fuck the female and then leave and then she raises it by herself and
00:57:28
Speaker
But we're capable of critical thinking and override.
00:57:31
Speaker
We're capable of making choices that override our more primitive brain instincts.
00:57:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:38
Speaker
And mammalian brain, like we have a human brain.
00:57:40
Speaker
So yeah, what is the way?
00:57:42
Speaker
The future is female?
00:57:43
Speaker
Are we doing that?
00:57:44
Speaker
Hashtag the future is female.
00:57:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:46
Speaker
So what does that mean for the future?
00:57:50
Speaker
So this was a little bit of a sneak peek of the kinds of topics and the things we'll be covering on female political strategy and an introduction to our new co-host, Elle.
00:57:59
Speaker
Thank you guys.
00:58:00
Speaker
Thank you guys so much for having me.
00:58:01
Speaker
We're really excited to have you.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah, it was a great discussion.
00:58:04
Speaker
So we will be continuing this discussion on female political strategy.
00:58:09
Speaker
Really looking for the female focused politics angle on a lot of the popular news stories of the day.
00:58:17
Speaker
We will be launching a
00:58:18
Speaker
in the next month or so.
00:58:21
Speaker
So look out for our social media to get our official launch date.
00:58:24
Speaker
And for all you queen shit tier subscribers on Patreon, you will be getting a sneak peek of the Female Political Strategy podcast.
00:58:32
Speaker
So we'll post some bonus content on there for you to listen to if you are wondering what kinds of ideas we will be circulating.
00:58:39
Speaker
So...
00:58:40
Speaker
Look forward to seeing you there, guys.
00:58:42
Speaker
Please check out our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com as well as our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy and our Twitter at fem.strat.
00:58:51
Speaker
We just posted some pretty funny bonus content this past week.
00:58:55
Speaker
Collective sigh.
00:58:56
Speaker
Let's give them a sneak tip.
00:58:58
Speaker
So this woman tried to...
00:59:02
Speaker
give advice to a woman whose husband was having sex with men all the sad.
00:59:08
Speaker
So if you want to hear what happened and our advice on that, go ahead and check out our Patreon.
00:59:14
Speaker
All right.
00:59:14
Speaker
So thanks for listening, Queens.
00:59:16
Speaker
For all you political podcast girls, we're coming for you.
00:59:19
Speaker
We're going to fuck up this industry.
00:59:21
Speaker
Die mad.