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Mastering Emotions: A Guide to Learning Emotional Regulation
158 Plays10 months ago
Sometimes it might feel like our emotions are running us, instead of the other way around. Today Julie sits down with Kassie Love, as she shares practical strategies, expert insights, and personal stories that shed light on the complexities of managing our emotions. From understanding triggers to cultivating resilience, this episode offers valuable tools for navigating the ebb and flow of our feelings.
About today's guest:
Kassie Love is a psychotherapist who works with individuals and their families who experience more intensive mood and emotional regulation needs, including unusual thoughts and experiences.
Get in touch with Kassie:
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Transcript
Introduction to Season 2
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome back to season two of Outside of Session. I'm your host, licensed clinical social worker, and therapist BFF, Julie Hilton. This season, I'm interviewing some incredible guests who also happen to be experts in their fields. Mental health, motherhood, spirituality, and so much more, I can't wait for their stories to be told. These are all the conversations I'm having outside of session.
Exploring Emotional Regulation
00:00:48
Speaker
Hey everyone and welcome back to outside of session. This week's episode, we're going to be talking about emotional regulation, which is a term that I think a lot of people may have heard of. But today we're really going to get into understanding what it means to regulate our emotions and how therapy can help you learn that skill. We also learn how it applies to really a range of different mental health issues. And even how you can support a family member if they're having difficulty regulating their emotions.
00:01:18
Speaker
A little about today's guest and expert in this topic, I sat down with Cassie Love, who is a psychotherapist working with individuals and their families who experience more intense mood and emotional regulation needs, including unusual thoughts and experiences. I hope you enjoy today's episode. Good morning, Cassie. Hi, Julie.
00:01:47
Speaker
It's so good to have you here today. Thank you for being here. Yeah, I'm excited to come here and talk about emotional regulation, something I use all the time. You know, with any of the clients I work with, it's a really core element in making progress. Yeah, absolutely. And I feel we were talking just a second ago before we hit record about me being a trauma therapist, like emotional regulation is a huge part of that. So I'm even hoping to learn from you today.
00:02:15
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I think this idea of emotional regulation is often really popularized in DVD, dialectical behavior therapy.
Deep Dive into DBT and Emotional Regulation
00:02:28
Speaker
Um, and for anyone who really wants to become an expert or to learn more like in the theoretical approaches and a process model of emotional regulation. Um, in case you're dying to do that when, when you're done here,
00:02:42
Speaker
Um, Dan Gross in the 1990s has this, you know, really well-developed, uh, process model that has lots of components, uh, theoretical approaches around emotional regulation. And then, like I said, Marcia Lanahan.
00:02:58
Speaker
when you talk about these core pillars of dialectical behavior therapy, which is a really great evidence-based approach for what's described as the symptoms of borderline personality. Of course, DBT is used in so much more than BPD now. I personally use it for those who have bipolar disorder,
00:03:25
Speaker
um, psychosis experiences and then trauma, um, as well. So, and, and that dbt approach to stress tolerance is often talked about. Um, so yeah, I'm here to talk about how I, I think every clinician, um, you know, uses their own models kind of in a way that works for their clients. And, uh, I like to view mine as like a spectrum.
00:03:52
Speaker
And when you talk about emotional regulation and then that model with Dan Gross, there's really two ways of looking at emotional regulation where it adds how can it be preventative or how can you work on shifting emotions and perspectives before
00:04:13
Speaker
you know, emotional crises come about. And when emotions feel more stable. Yeah.
Understanding Emotional Triggers and Body Awareness
00:04:21
Speaker
So for anybody who maybe hasn't even heard the term emotional regulation before, they're like, what even is that? For maybe they've never heard that defined before. How would you define emotional regulation? Yeah, I think that's a great, like, basic building block there. I would say kind of the process of modulating your emotions
00:04:43
Speaker
And honestly, it really starts at an idea of just being aware of what emotions are you experiencing? That sounds really basic, but for a lot of people, even those of us who feel in tune with our emotions, that naming, right? Yeah. Just naming different emotional experiences, being aware of your emotions, and then moving into what kind of situations,
00:05:11
Speaker
what kind of experiences maybe heighten your emotions. And then all the way back to kind of in your own history and experiences, where did you learn, you know, those emotions are correlated with situations and people. What arouses your emotions? Yeah. And so the first step is awareness. Cause you're right. I think it, it can be very, very hard to name an emotion. Right. Right.
00:05:40
Speaker
especially when you're trying to be really specific and naming like, where do you feel it in your body? Like so many times when I'm, when I'm doing some of that, um, body work, it can be really, really hard to tell where you feel it because you feel so disconnected in the moment. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. You saying that makes me reminds me that there is just this wide spectrum on how we experience amazing. And that was something for me also to like learn as a clinician.
00:06:10
Speaker
Um, so in working, say with people with, um, certain mental health kind of conditions, maybe like schizophrenia, people, um, experience emotions differently and are aware of their emotions differently. And this term, this, this fancy term of lexithymia is this really extreme difficulty in understanding and being aware of emotions you're experiencing.
00:06:37
Speaker
um, and say, you know, it's not a diagnostic criteria of autism spectrum disorder, but it often like an up to 50% of people on the spectrum. It occurs. Um, so that somatic piece that you just talked about and learning where to be aware of emotions in your body can be really crucial when you're working with individuals who
00:07:03
Speaker
maybe realize at some point they're depressed or even suicidal, but aren't aware of what emotions may be going on. So do you feel tightness in your chest? So it's behaviors. Are you noticing you're sleeping more than normal? Um, yeah. So that behavioral component and emotional regulation is really important. I even like what you just said. It's not just about,
00:07:29
Speaker
naming the emotion, but being familiar with how you individually experience that emotion. Right. Right. Because I, I might be able to identify anger, but I might experience anger very differently than you experience anger, depending on just the way that we're wired. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For some people, anger means, you know, often outburst when, uh, so that's something we move to the end of the spectrum, like distress tolerance.
00:07:58
Speaker
For other people, it means kind of the shutting down experience, you know, and not talking, not voicing your emotions. And where that's where kind of the interpersonal skills piece would be, you know, more effective.
Sleep's Role in Emotional Health
00:08:16
Speaker
So if that's the emotional part, would you say that the regulating part is the regulation is figuring out how to sit with that emotion or experience that motion in a way that that feels
00:08:29
Speaker
comfortable and safe for you? Like how would you define, what is it, what are we trying to do when we're trying to regulate these emotions? Right. So I think it's, I really practice and I get this sent you due to it in a collaborative way. And I try to help people figure out what it feels like it's balanced and would work in your own lives. I once heard a really great MFT, I had this really great opportunity
00:08:57
Speaker
to be in this private cohort with her, Diane Gerhart. And she was talking, we were in there talking about parenting and this idea of someone was saying about yelling at their kids. It does something really extreme with toys and the parent kind of got high and I was like, why are you doing this?
00:09:19
Speaker
And the parent knew that is really negative. And she was saying, well, where did you get that idea that you can't ever raise your voice? That is associated with bad parenting. So in emotional, when you regulate, I think it's different for different people. So part of that regulation piece and what's going to look healthy in your life is really related to the cognitive exploration that's going to go on in therapy. That's really interesting.
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah, what's gonna be, what's a healthy family dynamic? So I'm a family therapist, you know, my nature. So what's healthy in your family? Is that, feel realistic? Like you're never gonna raise your voice or if your spouse or somebody raises their voice, that's not, you know, okay. Or does it look okay if it's sometimes? Yeah, so I think it's an exploration process.
00:10:14
Speaker
I like that. And I talk with my clients about, I think so often we're given the message that we're supposed to control our emotions because emotions are bad or the unpredictable or they're seen as scary. And a lot of people got that message when they were a kid growing up, right? Like that they weren't allowed to express their emotions. So I see a lot of adults working really hard to say, if I could just control my emotions better, then the problem would be resolved.
00:10:44
Speaker
And a big thing for me is kind of what you're talking about is the problem isn't necessarily a lack of control over your emotions. It's that you've never decided what the comfortable level of experiencing that emotion is for you. And so when you're learning to regulate, I like that what you're saying is sometimes
00:11:04
Speaker
sometimes you can challenge some of those beliefs that you have about yelling is bad. And instead you can say, you know, maybe sometimes raising your voice is a healthy way to express it in emotion, but it comes with like defining what those boundaries are for you and your family. I love that word you use decided, because I love that idea, you know, in therapy is there is so much control you have, there is so much power.
00:11:30
Speaker
you have as an individual and coming to therapy and kind of deciding around what's gonna work for you. And if you view emotional regulation like on the spectrum, that early part is like awareness of emotions, this cognitive exploration around what's affecting you, what heightens your emotions, what feels healthy for you and your family.
00:11:58
Speaker
And even kind of before that, like in the beginning, um, one thing I, I learned to do and is when I, I learned this when working with people, I've never gone back is to address some core elements. Um, one of those being sleep. Uh, when I learned to start asking people, what does your sleep look like? How much sleep are you getting? Um, I, I never went back from that. It sounds so basic.
00:12:27
Speaker
Um, but in so many, I think for anything, right? But in, when you're dealing with mental health, um, if you don't have enough sleep, you're, you're not going to really be able to well control your emotions. Um, and, uh, I love that you're saying that because I'm thinking about all of my mom clients.
00:12:49
Speaker
I feel like they're just drowning and they don't have patience and they're irritable and they come to me and they're like, what is wrong with me? I can't, again, I can't control my emotions. And I'm like, honey, this is not a you issue. There's nothing quote unquote wrong with you. You are exhausted, mama. We've got to work on figuring that out, which I know is like,
00:13:18
Speaker
telling a new mom, especially get more sleep is probably one of the most frustrating things that they can do. Choosing not to get sleep, you know, but figuring out ways that they can prioritize it or work on their sleep hygiene a little bit. Even small tweaks can make a huge difference in their ability the next day, like you said, to have a little bit more the ability to regulate those emotions. And that's coincidental. You say that because the case example I was thinking of, um,
00:13:46
Speaker
was a really high functioning client I worked with and who was male and came to me and that was the core problem we were working on was irritability in parenting.
00:14:00
Speaker
And I, you know, I love, I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm just, I'm so glad you're using this as a case example, because I think that again, this is one of those things that so many parents, I think that there's a lot of, um, maybe guilt or shame about admitting this and talking to someone about it, but the majority of parents are irritated.
00:14:20
Speaker
Right. It is the hardest job in the world. Right. And this example, the patient was losing their temper with their kids. Kind of the first thing I was like, is this only isolated to experience this with your children or with other people? And it was really around parenting and described as irritable. And that was one of the first things I asked about sleep.
00:14:50
Speaker
And to be honest, saying that I have three little ones. And when we talk about how our diversity, um, often informs, right? In therapy, a lot of times people feel like if you have, um, similar experiences, you relate.
00:15:07
Speaker
But sometimes you have to keep that in check because if you have so many things in common, you may assume you know things about someone else because they're a woman or they're the same religion or something.
00:15:20
Speaker
Um, but in this example, this patient, I felt like it was a way I use my own experience to guide and inform because when he said irritability and parenting, I knew from personal experience, I had noticed when I was irritable with my own kids.
00:15:38
Speaker
it was almost always sleep deprivation. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I have two little ones that are less than two years apart and that, that's a new experience, right? Yeah. So, um, right. So, and, and it came to be right. He was sleeping a couple hours less.
00:16:00
Speaker
you know, then is recommended. Harvard Health has some good research out there on irritability, the emotion of irritability and sleep. So, you know, seven and a half to eight and a half is predominantly what I found recommending, you know, and sleep.
00:16:25
Speaker
I'm writing that down cause I'll make sure to put that in the show notes, the Harvard health research and tips. So I know that you also, um, you shared that you work with some more of the, um, intense diagnoses. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I describe them as, um, intensive mood and emotional regulation needs. Um, so that often includes, uh, bipolar disorder, recess ships and mood.
00:16:54
Speaker
borderline personality, where you see the shifts in emotions and sometimes mood as well. Individuals who have unusual thoughts or experiences, which can be called psychosis. Yeah. So how does sleep maybe affect those populations as well?
00:17:15
Speaker
Right. So in terms of what we're talking about, I think the easiest to shift into is borderline personality, which is characterized by having emotions that often don't serve you well in communicating with others and interacting with others. So you often have interpersonal difficulties.
00:17:41
Speaker
Um, so just that, you know, if you can imagine that's your experience, um, often with individuals frequently with those around you, um, and difficulty tolerating your own emotions where it may lead you to do things you wish you hadn't or you may even come to regret regret. Um, adding sleep deprivation on top of that, I mean, even the best of us, I think with the most regulated, uh, moods and emotions like I shared,
00:18:10
Speaker
It's hard to be patient with people, consider alternate perspectives. If you don't have sleep, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Just change your, it changes your capacity. Right. It does. Yeah. Your bandwidth is so much smaller, right? Yeah.
00:18:30
Speaker
So just, you know, giving extra sleep can really, I think, give you an edge mentally, physically on being able to tolerate your emotions and also give you that bandwidth when we talked about cognitive exploration perspectives.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, so I think that's one of the easiest. I think that's a good reminder to people though that as many of the skills that you have and the training that you have and all of like the resources and the work that you do with clients to say that you start with sleep. Again, I know you're saying that that's like one of the most simple things, but to think about how important it is, like we can't skip over that. You know, that's the very basic things really do lay
00:19:18
Speaker
Change the foundation, right? So I'm glad I'm glad you're starting with that, right? Yeah, I too sometimes I wonder it does this seem overly simplified but whether it does or does not I'm sorry, that's a supervisor who is an integrative wellness and Yeah, I that's why I learned that honestly
00:19:41
Speaker
And I'm starting with sleep, because it's really important to you when you're talking about having unusual experiences or unusual thoughts. And I really normalize that as well, because who hasn't had an unusual thought or experience? Like, have you ever heard your phone ring when it didn't? Heard the doorbell when it didn't happen? I notice I'm a lot more edgy and kind of frazzled by things when I don't have sleep.
00:20:10
Speaker
Absolutely. What was that? Was that my phone? You know, sounds bother me more when I'm sleep deprived. So that's a basis too, when you're having unusual thoughts or experiences. And then bipolar disorder, right? That can be a criteria for the diagnosis anyways, this major adjustment, lack of sleep. So just monitoring sleep.
00:20:39
Speaker
Learning to track your sleep and bipolar disorder, but for so many other conditions as well, like depressed mood and anxiety, can be one of those warning signs to you that, hey, things might be likely to start building upon themselves and get to a place I don't want it to be. Yeah, absolutely. So what are some other things besides sleep that you look at?
Impact of Diet and Lifestyle on Mood
00:21:05
Speaker
So sleep and then, um, you know, diet, nutrition, um, that is in the cognitive really exploration process for people. Um, and that can, that can look a lot different. Um, sleep is a go-to for me, um, diet, nutrition. I think people often have ideas on where they want to go with their nutrition and what feels healthier for them.
00:21:35
Speaker
whether that's drinking more water, cutting out some sugar. Right, so I bring up an awareness about that. But sleep and spending time outside. Oh, wow. Yeah. Talk to us about that. Right, that's strongly correlated with mood as well, like the exposure to sunlight. So that's often a basic, if you're dealing with depressed mood or write these unusual experiences,
00:22:05
Speaker
suggesting to people, I say experiments. If you can spend however much time outside, I usually start with like 20 minutes, it can be doing anything. But just exposure to sunlight. I think that's just such a good reminder again, that so many of these things, they are basic.
00:22:23
Speaker
It is, yeah, it is. And they are things that we all have access to, you know, just being able to get outside. But again, it takes like a conscious effort to know, I know this is good for me. So even if I don't feel like doing it right now, I know it. I know that there's a greater benefit. Right, right. Yeah. And I try to suggest like, can we do an experiment? If you spend, you know, two times outside this week,
00:22:51
Speaker
Um, then we'll see, do you feel like you notice any different? Um, I even say with teenagers, I work with, you can do anything. You can take your iPad on the front porch. Yeah. So if you can walk to the mailbox, you know, so, um, those are where, so if you like view it on a spectrum, that is the very beginning where I start, like the daytime, the sleep.
00:23:18
Speaker
And then this cognitive, I'm a big CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. So we touched a few minutes ago on some of that behaviorism. For some people, unawareness of emotions looks like learning behaviors that are associated with emotions, which is, you know, are you sleeping unusually late? Do you have like a tightness in your chest? Do you have increased breathing?
00:23:47
Speaker
Um, that might be for some people, um, this really behavioral, if you deal with say mild cognitive impairment, autism spectrum, things like that. Um, but for anyone, I think noticing where you feel emotions in your body, um, is helpful. I don't know about you, Jill. I'm a, I'm a shoulder person, right? I'm a tightness in my shoulders, anxious. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:16
Speaker
Um, I think to a lot of people can be more aware of what's going on in their body. Like they're aware that that where they carry pain, but they don't associate that with emotion. So that's one of the things it's like, right? Some people are aware of the emotion, but not the physical sensation. And some are vice versa. And it's helping them put all of that together to say, this is when you experience this, this is where you experience this. And this is what you are experiencing.
00:24:42
Speaker
Right, right. And one of the awareness pieces I like to use as an intervention and working with a lot of clients and that I think is really helpful in understanding somatically where you feel emotions in your body is formal meditation and mindfulness.
Meditation for Emotional Awareness
00:25:07
Speaker
So yeah, I love doing meditation, mindfulness work when clients are open to that. And I think that too has some kind of
00:25:18
Speaker
you know, sometimes Western stigma around it that it is necessarily sitting, you know, cross like on a carpet. So there's a few great like apps out there that teach beginner, you know, meditation skills. But when you talk about emotional awareness, somatic awareness,
00:25:42
Speaker
um of thoughts um I you know I I really love meditation work. I do too and do you typically recommend um finding like a guided meditation for a particular emotion? Um so I try to get people um to explore meditations. Okay um because not everybody's gonna like the same thing.
00:26:07
Speaker
Um, but you know, so there's informal, informal, mindful meditation practice. So meditation, right? Traditionally is that formal, it is a formal sit down focused style. Um, so, um, some people you have to start in the informal piece and, uh, may not be open or ready for formal meditation. Um,
00:26:32
Speaker
But there's a few good ones out there that I think teach some of the core components, like focus, awareness, the self-compassion piece. They're the pillars of meditation. And I really think you have to learn kind of what formally meditation is to get the benefits.
00:26:58
Speaker
So that probably sounds, I don't know, is that sound geeky gear? It's, it's really simple, right? And, uh, once you get, you know, going, but I love, like when I was at Emory, uh, there was a psychologist there. She was a big fan of Headspace and the beginner. I'm in the calm camp. I love the calm.
00:27:16
Speaker
And they both have really good beginner things that are just a few minutes long that teach you the real basics of what meditation mindfulness are. Yeah. And I'll make sure to put those apps in the show notes too, so people can think about it. Do you know Insight Timer?
00:27:39
Speaker
I do have insight timer. Um, and it definitely, I recommend that. And then they're smiling mind. So insight timer and smiling mind, if you want to avoid the subscription costs. And I've also seen on Apple music, um, meditation and of course YouTube, right? Is probably,
00:28:04
Speaker
I don't know a channel off the top of my head, but I do think learning what formal meditation is and the components of it is an important part, you know, if you're going to get like the real benefit out of it. Hey, everyone, I just wanted to pause for a quick moment to say thank you so much for all the love and support that you're showing outside of session.
00:28:35
Speaker
If you haven't already, do me a huge favor and hit the subscribe button. Give me a five star review and share this podcast with all of your friends. Help me take this show to another level. Now back to today's episode. When I think when it comes to emotional regulation, the reason why I think that meditation is so good for it is because meditation really helps you to sit with the present and just be in the moment.
00:29:05
Speaker
Yeah. And it helps you so much to be present with and learn your inner workings. I know that sounds a little bit woo woo. Every description of meditation, mindfulness, I always I love hearing there's so many and I love it.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that when we're talking about before we can get to a place of being able to control or regulate our emotions, we have to be really in tune with what's going on inside with us. Because a lot of times I think that when there is that disconnect, it's like emotions are happening to us.
00:29:46
Speaker
Right. Yes. I see. I love that. Yes. They're just kind of happening to us and we don't feel like they are something that we have a connection to. They are just slamming into us and we're just riding this wave, right?
00:30:01
Speaker
Right. But I think meditation helps us to be really present with ourselves to say if they're coming from within, we could work with them, we can embrace them, we can sit with them, we can increase our emotional maturity, those kind of things, right? And so then it doesn't feel so much like the emotions are happening to us. Right. Yes. Yeah, I totally yeah. And I think that's why, you know, after you look at are you are you meeting your basic body needs?
00:30:27
Speaker
Are you sleeping? Do you eat? Do you have make time for yourself to eat? Do you go outside your house? Then that cognitive piece and I love the mindful well meditation teacher Jeff Warren and I think one of the best descriptions I ever heard of meditation that I related to Was it's this awareness that you can have thoughts but you don't have to react to that
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. And I think too, when we talk about all kinds of conditions and hearing that people can relate to OCD, you know, obsessive compulsive disorder, I think meditation is one of the most helpful tools out there because that's what OCD is by nature, reoccurring obsessive thoughts. So when you understand, Hey, I can have thoughts all day long,
00:31:25
Speaker
but it doesn't mean I have to decide to have an emotion around it. I like that, I like that a lot. So one of the questions that I wanted to ask was how could someone notice if they are dysregulated? Especially if they are working on their awareness, how do you help them understand when they are dysregulated and what does that look like?
00:31:52
Speaker
Right. So I think you write the cognitive piece on exploring. So I find that when people put distressing situations down, like, you know, someone's yelling, I'm upset when someone yells, or my, you know, best friend is ignoring me.
00:32:17
Speaker
I think when you look at those, I personally love thought records too with clients. Okay. Um, so that evidence for, for evidence against peace, what's the, you know, um, facts around this being true or not true. Um, then in that, um, ride, if you ever do one of those formal thought records, there's an emotional rating piece, like how strong are my emotions around this? Like, what do I feel?
00:32:46
Speaker
Um, you know, abandoned, angry and writing those emotions. I think for a lot of people, uh, when you start to explore, um, what's the facts around this being true, not true. Um, they have some kind of understanding and realization, um, that, Hey, I probably experienced really strong emotions around particular situations or events.
00:33:14
Speaker
Um, the things with my friends often trigger me things in public situations. Um, situations just with my kids, but I'm fine with every, you know, everybody else. Um, then I, so I, I do think it tends to be, you know, certain people situations, uh, for some people that they get along really well with everyone, but one particular family member.
00:33:40
Speaker
So recognizing the situations and the triggers is a really important piece of it. Right. Right. Yeah. And like I said, I love thought records in the cognitive piece. There's a couple different versions out there. There's a really great seven column.
00:33:59
Speaker
If you're working with children, teens, or maybe someone it makes sense to do more basic, then there's a good four column that is a much more basic kind of building block piece. Yeah. I don't know if this is a silly question or not, but I think that
00:34:25
Speaker
When people typically hear emotional regulation, I think they think of anger, anxiety. I think those are some of the things that we tell ourselves that if we can get a handle on these things, right? But what are some of the ones that maybe you see and you work with clients with that wouldn't initially come
Addressing Dysregulated Emotions
00:34:46
Speaker
to mind? Like those are the ones that we wouldn't really think about regulating. Does that make sense? Like some of the specific emotions that people may not realize that they're being overwhelmed by?
00:34:55
Speaker
That does um, so I think you know, especially for people with Self-harm behaviors going on this fear of abandonment Okay is often a core piece around self-harm Not feeling accepted by other people I see that in teens to this
00:35:24
Speaker
You know, I go hang out with friends and stuff and then I come home and sell because I don't know how to feel accepted. I'm not sure that I am or someone said something that really affected or upset me. I got a text message.
00:35:43
Speaker
Um, so yeah, that is, um, and I think that often falls in that realm of what we call like RO dbt, that new, you know, new or radically open dbt, right? A different approach, uh, for people who are over-regulated, um, yeah, experience like emotions, like perfect, you know, um, not, not necessarily just emotions, but compulsions to a rail. Things have to be perfect. And I have.
00:36:13
Speaker
thoughts that occur over and over again about So yeah, I think what you say is it's so important to consider emotions so differently and when people do come in often anger and
00:36:30
Speaker
Cause I think, you know, like you're saying, that's often a socially unacceptable emotion. Where's your microphone? And yelling. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the interpersonal skills piece, that is important. I don't want to downplay like being angry or say that yelling is always the healthiest thing going on. Um, but there are way ways to express emotions.
00:36:59
Speaker
That make you feel better about it and you know make other people because you know if you go if yelling is your go-to It's not probably gonna work out for you or the people around you all the time If you have a client that has maybe some They have a right to be angry, but they've never let themselves express it before because again they socially and also in families anger is a
00:37:30
Speaker
kind of like a taboo emotion that we're not really encouraged to express. And in therapy, you're trying to help them to be able to say, no, you have a right to be angry. We need to be able to release this and feel it and experience it so that it can be released, right? But I have people ask me all the time, like, okay, well, how do you process anger in a healthy way? How do you help guide people through that?
00:37:57
Speaker
Um, yeah, when you talk about that, it reminds me so much of like, so I do a ton of family therapy, um, work. I think the vast majority of my clients, honestly, now that I'm reflecting, uh, cause when I say, well, I'm, you know, I'm a family therapist by nature. Of course I work with people individually, but you're always welcome to bring family or, you know, or let them be involved.
00:38:25
Speaker
Uh, I think the majority of people do take up that offer a lot of times. Um, and, uh, one thing when you said is, you know, how do I navigate being angry? It makes me often think of boundaries and families. Um, and I would say, um, when you think about anger on that spectrum and emotional regulation,
00:38:49
Speaker
there's the distress tolerance piece of in the moment, how do I, I deal with this in a productive way that I'm not going to regret, but preventatively, how do I cope, um, with emotions around anger? And I think often, um, especially in families, cause I review, I view kind of everybody that comes into the context of relationships. Right. Um, and, um,
00:39:17
Speaker
So I think like that early kind of cognitive piece is having boundaries with people, um, about, you know, what is healthy for you to kind of tolerate with people, um, and you know, where, where you're willing to give and take. So it's an exploration process because you can't die on every hill. Yeah. Uh, you got to pick on, but yeah. So,
00:39:43
Speaker
Um, right. That, that reminds me to kind of being angry and learning, you know, assertiveness, communication skills, something I often work with. I, I notice I'm thinking in my mind right now, um, I work with clients, um, often that are elderly and, uh, you know, senior citizen.
00:40:04
Speaker
probably how they would define themselves. And communicating with adult children is a new dynamic for them. Absolutely. How does it shift? So I can be assertive with my kids. I don't want to hurt their feelings. So that's an interesting family dynamic when kids become real adults and shift their perspectives on
00:40:30
Speaker
Um, you know, maybe I need to help my family member, my parent more, um, but not overstepping. Um, sometimes there, there is this overstepping boundaries piece, um, when they almost become like a parent. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:47
Speaker
Absolutely. You also mentioned, um, a minute ago, distress tolerance. Can you talk about that a little bit for people who maybe have never heard of distress tolerance before?
Supporting Families with Intense Emotional Needs
00:40:57
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So if, if we're starting back on the spectrum, when we talk about early on, like sleep, um, spending time outside, those are these early preventative ways of regulating emotions.
00:41:13
Speaker
And then you want to move into awareness of your emotions. How could I explore what looks healthy and what's realistic? Um, so I think of distress tolerance at the ends of that spectrum of when you have emotions, um, how do you modulate your emotions? And so quite often distress tolerance is for when individuals feel, and we all feel,
00:41:43
Speaker
really heightened emotions, such as anger. And you often notice that you resort to actions, behaviors that you later often regret or that cause conflict in relationships, outbursts. We talked about self-harm behaviors. You know, it can even be harm to others.
00:42:12
Speaker
Maybe just domestic violence, breaking things. You know, and it can even be yelling or outbursts to like friends or neighbors. That's a big one too. I often work with saying things in social situations, maybe in boot red. But also, so those are a bunch of behaviors. And I'll talk about some different ones too that people use as distress tolerance.
00:42:42
Speaker
And, you know, some, some things like, you know, working, um, with individuals bipolar borderline, but who can't relate to this though? Just depression. I'm so glad you're normalizing that. Yeah. Spending money that you later regret who hasn't maybe bought something to make yourself feel good. Um,
00:43:02
Speaker
eating in a way that you feel like is unhealthy or later regret. Um, I'm a big dark chocolate, you know, I'm, I'm culpable here. Um, so, um, I noticed that I sometimes eat to kind of cope with emotions or recent cops. Um, so, um, diet coke, but I'm really tired. And yeah, so normalizing it, but for some people,
00:43:29
Speaker
Um, it borders into behavior said feel very unhealthy and are really affecting their lives. And again, that's on a spectrum. Like you said, it is, it is. So we could be, you know, what might be okay for some people, a couple purchases.
00:43:47
Speaker
for some people could be, you know, you've spent thousands of dollars this week on a credit card. And it can be really detrimental to not only you, your family, finances, and then, you know, working with a lot of others, you use alcohol, drugs, prescriptions in a way that, you know, is not healthy for your lifestyle.
00:44:15
Speaker
So distress tolerance is helping you to tolerate. Right. And yeah, to pick behaviors, to decide what behaviors are going to be helpful for you in situations to tolerate emotions. Yeah. Yeah. So that's when the emotion is already there and you're already in that heightened place and you're learning, okay, how do I kind of ride this wave in a way where I sit with it and I
00:44:43
Speaker
maintain the ability to choose how I respond to that emotion instead of acting impulsively, right? Right, yeah. With the behavior I can use right now, that I'm not going to feel like it's unhealthy or damage my relationships. And that too is so individualized. It is, yeah.
00:45:10
Speaker
So another thing that I wanted to touch on is that especially when it comes to what you describe as like the more intensive mental health needs that you work with, clients aren't the only ones impacted. Like I'm thinking about
00:45:26
Speaker
If we have any listeners today who maybe have a family member or a friend with some of like the bipolar disorder or like, do you have any tips or advice for them on how they can support their loved one when it comes to emotional regulation?
00:45:43
Speaker
And at the same time, take care of themself too in that relationship. Because you work from such a family perspective and friends are family too, right? I do, yes. So I often encourage family therapy. Offer and encourage that you come to family therapy together, even if it's not every session, to help figure out
00:46:10
Speaker
Um, how, how can we all cope with emotions differently? I want to explain to families and couples I work with is, um, quite often here, um, you know, fixing problems for you, um, regulating emotions is about shifting perspectives. Cause there's so much you can do in the preventative stage. To stress is important, but it's in the moment.
00:46:37
Speaker
If you can work on shifting perspectives around how you think about things, if you can be, I love the word flexible. You can just be a little bit more flexible in what your expectations are, what you think of situations. So as you can imagine, if one person does that, it's great. If you can get two or more people in a family to do that, it compounds upon itself.
00:47:07
Speaker
And it's so much more effective. So I do encourage that, like the family therapy piece, couples therapy. And there are a lot of great individual therapists out there as well who are great about, you know, understanding how to integrate family sessions or couple sessions.
00:47:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I could see how it would be so important when you're learning how to support a family member to really take the time to learn how different their inner workings are. Right? That sometimes we think that the way that we experience emotions is just how it is. Right. We kind of assume that that's how like, if I can, if I can control myself, everybody should be able to, because we assume that they're experiencing the same thing that we are.
00:47:55
Speaker
And they're really not. Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. It's very different. People experience emotions very personally and differently. I think for one person who is often prone to outburst or angry or irritable, you know, understanding that perspective of how someone may shut down or not communicate in situations does look like very different.
00:48:25
Speaker
They do. Yeah. And then so when you talk about how how might families deal with if you have a family member with more intense mood and emotional regulation, there's also some really great like psycho education, psychosocial support programs out there. I'll say a kin, A-K-I-N, a kin is a good one.
00:48:49
Speaker
for families kind of supporting these more intensive mood and emotional needs. I believe it's a national program too. So it's like education based on how to navigate and be supportive. Right, because it's a big experience for you as well as a family member. NAMI has some really great
00:49:17
Speaker
family programs, their stuff is free, their groups are free, and they're nationwide as well. So those are some great support resources for families. Yeah, absolutely. I will get all of that from you so I can put it in the show notes because I think the more resources that we can let people know about the better, right?
00:49:42
Speaker
I do agree, right? Especially if you don't know how to help a family member. That's especially true for parents when you have teenagers with really big experiences, really big emotions. It can be a challenge in learning how to be a supportive parent, but also ensuring your child or teen gets appropriate mental health.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, Cassie, this has been so good. One thing you should know about me, Julie, is I could talk about anything. That's how most of us therapists are. This is our jam, so we could talk about it all day. Right. But before we go, I do have the one question that I ask everyone that I want to get your thoughts on.
00:50:32
Speaker
If you could go back and tell your younger self one thing with all of your life experience now and all of the wisdom that you have now and we're all on, you know, we're all constantly growing and changing. So now that you have all of your growth, if you could go back and tell yourself your younger self one thing, what would it be? Oh, one thing. I think for me, even the alternate perspectives piece,
00:51:02
Speaker
Um, you know, if I could have started early on as a parent, I also have adult stepchildren, um, that understanding flexibility in life. Um, I once heard my stepmom say, and when she said this, I paused with it. Um, we were talking about holiday plans. I think that for a lot of families can be really contentious. And she said, Oh honey, I don't care.
00:51:31
Speaker
I don't care what day it is or what time I'll accommodate just whenever I'm just happy for you to be here. Um, that was a big perspective for me and I, you know, reflected on that. And I just try to be more flexible and easygoing because flexibility just makes life so much easier. Yeah. When you, you're, you're open to other ideas when you evaluate your own perspectives.
00:52:01
Speaker
Yeah. Just to be able to tell yourself it's okay to go with the flow a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And when you get upset, reflecting on, you know, what else could be going on? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Thanks. Yeah. Well, I think that's all we have for today. Unless there's anything else we didn't touch on that that you wanted to say.
00:52:23
Speaker
No, no, I don't think so. So I think it's is it psychotherapy tools? I took a great CE on dbt. And it had a lot in there like on psychosis and bipolar disorder, because those are non traditional ways of applying dbt. And there was one in there on trauma. Okay, so it's like a C. So I think it's the website psychotherapy tools, but
00:52:49
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah, I like DVT. I think for distress tolerance, it can be really helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I hope this was good,
Conclusion and Listener Reminder
00:53:02
Speaker
Julie. I enjoyed talking about how I do emotional regulation. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you. We'll talk to you later. Bye.
00:53:19
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Outside of Session. Remember, while I am a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for individual therapy. The contents of this episode are for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you are having a mental health emergency, please dial 911 for immediate assistance or dial 988 for the suicide and crisis lifeline.