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Navigating Relationships with ASD/ADHD
75 Plays14 days ago
This week, Megan Heller-Foley returns to share more insights from her experience helping neurodiverse women navigate life. In this fascinating conversation, we dive into strategies for thriving in dating and relationships while living with ASD or ADHD.
Megan Heller-Foley is a licensed clinical social worker at Awaken Counseling in Marietta, Georgia. Megan has a bachelors of science in psychology and a masters of science in social work. Megan has been a licensed social worker since 2012 and a therapist in private practice for seven years. Megan’s lived experience as a Neurodiverse person has led her to focus on helping others navigate their lives with adhd and autism. Megan’s special interests include reading psychological thrillers and roman-tasy books, almost all fandom’s (currently engulfed in the hobbit), board games, 90 day fiancé (and all of its spin offs), and the never ending pursuit of knowledge and acceptance of living as a Neurodiverse person.
Get in touch with Megan:
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Transcript
Season 3 Introduction: Navigating Challenges
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back to Outside of Session. I'm your host, licensed clinical social worker and therapist BFF, Julie Hilton. Season three is all about navigating life's challenges and finding balance. We're continuing the conversations around mental health and I'm once again joined by expert guests who share their stories and tips and hopes to inspire you on your journey of healing and growth.
00:00:37
Speaker
Hey everyone and welcome
Guest Spotlight: Megan Heller Foley on Neurodiverse Relationships
00:00:39
Speaker
back. I hope everyone is just having an amazing week this week. And I hope that you are ready for another awesome episode because this week I sat down with Megan Heller Foley, which if any of you guys listened last season, I had Megan on last season and her episode hands down did so, so much better than any other episode that I have ever recorded. Like the numbers were like five times what all the other episodes were.
00:01:07
Speaker
And last time we talked about ADHD and autism in women. And we had a really like broad overview conversation about what it's like um being neurodiverse in a neurotypical world. And when I saw how interested people were in this topic, I was like, Megan, we've got to do it again. and You've got to come back on the show. And she was so gracious to come back.
00:01:28
Speaker
So this time we are getting a little bit more specific and in this episode today we are going to be talking about navigating relationships and dating as a woman who's been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder or ADHD. um So we're going to dive into all things of that today and then we actually split the conversation up into two episodes. So next week she's going to be back as well and we're going to be covering a completely different topic.
Understanding Neurodiversity: ADHD and Autism in Women
00:01:52
Speaker
um But today we are going to be talking about
00:01:57
Speaker
relationships, navigating them, um the things that make navigating relationships really interesting and fun, but also like the challenges that come with it as well. So a little bit about Megan. Like I said, she was on last season, so I highly recommend you go back and listen to that episode first if you haven't already. But Megan Heller Foley is a licensed clinical social worker and she works at Awaken Counseling in Marietta, Georgia.
00:02:20
Speaker
She has a bachelor's of science in psychology and a master's of science in social work. She's been a licensed social worker since 2012 and a therapist in private practice for the last seven years now. Megan's lived experience as a neurodiverse person has led her to focus on helping others navigate their lives with ADHD and autism. So with that being said, help me welcome Megan and I hope you enjoy today's show.
00:02:47
Speaker
Megan, thank you so much for being here this morning. Yeah, thank you so much for having me and inviting me back. Y'all, Megan and I are having some technical difficulties this morning. So this is the second time we've recorded this beginning. but That's okay, because we're going to get through it. um Okay, so
00:03:07
Speaker
I have said this on my Instagram a couple of different times, but Megan, your episode from last season, hands down, did like five times better than any other episode that I recorded. And I was just so blown away by the response that we got from it. um Like I was constantly texting you every couple of months letting you know like the numbers were crazy good. And I feel like it really is because this is such a topic that needs a lot of conversation and it just fell into the right hands and people really want to learn more about this.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
Historical Research Shifts: From Men to Women
00:03:38
Speaker
And it it's so interesting because a lot of this information is kind of being released in real time ah because, like, I don't know, all the history of studies have been on, like, really men, yeah like, men of a certain, like, 70 kilogram men, like, and that's what, like, all of our scientific research is based on. And unfortunately, only recently have we started really getting into like the nuances of you know some specific research involving women and things that we deal with, things that we do through how our bodies work. um So I think that's another thing that makes it so fascinating is like you know we might not have had this last year, five years ago, 10 years ago, 30 years ago.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's so true. And even when you sent me kind of like the outline for all the different things that we're going to cover today, I realized like, Oh my gosh, there's so many different directions that we can take this in and and so much to cover to the point that we're going to break this into two different episodes because um there's just like too much to cover. There's so so much that I want to get into.
Episode Split: Relationships and Hormones
00:04:40
Speaker
um So this week, we're going to be talking about navigating a lot of the common themes that you see ah in relationships for women who have a diagnosis of ASD and eighty eight or ADHD. And then next week, we're going to talk all about periods and hormones and how those fluctuations have an impact on women with these diagnoses. So I'm super excited about the second half of this, too. um
00:05:08
Speaker
But before we jump into today's episode talking about relationships and the challenges that come with that, I wanted to take a second to get you to say again what you said before we started recording, which is why we're not separating out um an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis from ADHD diagnosis and just give you space to talk about that for just a second.
ADHD and Autism: Overlapping Diagnoses
00:05:29
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. So within eighty a a with an ASD diagnosis, autism spectrum disorder diagnosis, um you commonly also see ADHD. So there's a lot of combined presentation, a lot of comorbidity with those two diagnoses. It's not the same for ADHD. You know, a lot of times that is like a standalone ah diagnosis, but it it also um ah you know yeah It has a lot of common factors, you know a lot of common things that impact functionality in so many different areas, especially with the sensory stuff like the inability to screen out. um you know
00:06:08
Speaker
ah like If you can feel the tag of your shirt, you can't hear people. you know yeah So that's common for both of them. So I think i it's easy to kind of um but ah put them together.
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really important for people to keep in mind that um just because you haven't been formally diagnosed with both of these things, that doesn't mean that this episode won't apply to you and that you won't still get some really good information that might be helpful to you. So don't think it doesn't apply to you just because you don't fit into one category. I think that we're um just combining them because more likely than not, you are going to find something that relates to you or it relates to your life.
00:06:52
Speaker
Sure, yes. And I i think really like if you break it down, it's like women whose brains work a little bit differently, women that feel like they've kind of had trouble fitting in, um trouble um you know conforming to the social norm, women that just feel a little bit different, feel a little bit weird. um And I think you know generally a lot of people can relate to that.
00:07:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah, for sure. um Even if you've never been tested or don't suspect any of this, I still think you're going to youll be able to get something out of today's conversation. So let's start with one of the first things that you had listened listed was social and communication challenges. um Where do we even start with that?
Social Cues and Relationship Challenges
00:07:34
Speaker
yes ah so you know i think first like social cues and uh misunderstanding social cues which is very possible with ADHD and ASD um you know because you know for ADHD it's like you know you might not be focused you might not be paying attention so you might miss a lot of things um with and with ah ASD, like sometimes those receptors just aren't there for reading social cues. So it makes relationships different, really difficult um when you can't um you can't really read the room, you can't really catch the vibe. um So you might be really misinterpreting um what somebody is trying to communicate.
00:08:21
Speaker
And when we're talking about relationships, I wonder if we need to specify, like as you share some of this information, like are we talking about friendships? Are we talking about romantic relationships? Are we talking about with our parents?
00:08:33
Speaker
um you know I feel like it can be all relationships really would have the same struggles. But I think for the purpose of this podcast today, you know and dating, marriage, long-term relationships, um I think that's important. you know Another aspect is also co-workers.
00:09:01
Speaker
and colleagues, bosses, you know, a lot gets missed in lines of communication that way. um But I guess, you know, for today, we should probably just focus on like intimate partner relationships. Okay, I like that. It doesn't mean that some of this can't carry over. So if you are not um in a long term relationship or in a dating phase, it doesn't mean that you won't be able to grab some things from this and apply it to the other relationships that we are in.
00:09:29
Speaker
um Okay, so what are some of the ah communication, like when you're working with a client, what are some of the common things that you see that they are aware of, of like having communication, miscommunications in their relationship?
Navigating Social Interactions: Comfort and Coping
00:09:45
Speaker
yes so you know i see a lot of young people a lot of young women you know newly diagnosed self-diagnosed that sort of thing um they're trying to make friends they're trying to date they have a lot of questions about why this didn't go well or why this um didn't lead to something more um or you know, why they just kind of had a hard time in general, like getting through the day, passing the time, making conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And so had how do you help them identify that? And like, what are some of those? What are some of the ways that you work on that?
00:10:25
Speaker
i I think ah like ah ah pulling from their strengths, pulling from their coping skills, pulling from what self-regulation abilities they do have um to try to be mindful, to try to be in the moment, to try to be as comfortable as possible. So I think like you know um setting is really important.
00:10:51
Speaker
you know If crowds of people bother you, you know do not go to a crowded place. um you know Maybe you you don't meet at a quiet park or a quiet coffee shop. um So I think like the preparation is so important. you know Maybe it's it's close to your own home. um you know Just somewhere that you are comfortable, that you feel safe,
00:11:14
Speaker
um you know How to increase your sense of safety before the interaction, um I think that's really important. and I actually encourage my clients to kind of like bring some of their coping skills with them, um bring some of their safety techniques. um that can be like ah I have some clients that use a fidget jewelry.
00:11:34
Speaker
yeah um And that can be really helpful um in essential oil, um just something special to you. I have some clients that bring like a little rock or crystal. um and And that, you know, I know sometimes and people make fun of people that use rocks and crystals. i I actually really like them, but I think there's like a really nice sensory thing to it where it's like it's cold, it's smooth, or it's rough, or it's, you know, just like that the way that it feels can really help to keep you grounded.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah, I like even what you're starting with is because if you are some someone who is in a relationship and you know that communication is a struggle, and we're trying to learn like how to increase better communication, you're saying, it let's not start with looking within. Let's start with work looking around you. Let's put you in a setting that's
Realistic Dating Expectations for Neurodiverse Individuals
00:12:27
Speaker
going to set you up to be able to communicate in the in the best way.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yes, set up for you know the most success possible. you know Give yourself the best chance um of having a you know ah a okay or a good experience. I don't like to set like really high expectations. and I think if you if there's not a second date or the date doesn't go great, it's still not a failure. right It's a learning experience. and so I really try to focus on that too. like Well, you know you did go and you did have conversations and you know this was a date, so it was ultimately a success even if it doesn't lead to
00:13:06
Speaker
you know, a relationship or a marriage or whatever, I think, you know, every social interaction can be an important lesson. Yeah, for sure. And one of the questions that I was going to ask later, but I'm going to jump to it now is um like thinking about like, if you're a neurotypical person in a relationship with someone who is neurodiverse, like what are some tips and tricks for understanding and helping and I like that They need to hear this too that if they are trying to communicate they need to think about the context in which they're bringing it to you so if i'm. Distracted and i'm trying to work on something else or if i'm in an environment where i'm can't give you my full attention.
00:13:46
Speaker
I'm less likely to pick up on all the things that you're trying to say, right? So it kind of like put some of that responsibility on them too, to say like, if you want to have like a really good conversation, a good meaningful conversation, or if you need me to like remember something, or like, you need to make sure that I'm in a ah space that works for me, right?
Self-awareness and Boundaries in Relationships
00:14:07
Speaker
Yes, yes. And you know I have to bring it back to the person experiencing ASD or ADHD because it begins with and them getting to know themselves, them understanding themselves. you know Where am I most comfortable? How do I feel best? How do I communicate best? and having boundaries, um having a lot of self-understanding, a lot of self-exploration, and having i am the amount of safety and comfort comfort with their partner to be like, hey, you know i i this place is too loud. It can't function. you know this There's a weird smell here. We have to go. you know I can't effectively communicate. And I'm just like generally miserable in this setting. and
00:14:52
Speaker
um So, you know, obviously, it begins with that self exploration, which can be really hard and like admitting to yourself like, hey, going to a concert where it's really loud might just not be for me, you know. um So I think, um you know, identifying those things, communicating them, and then for the partner um to just be you know, as all people should, I guess, kind, caring, ah you know, emotionally mature, very, very patient. um I also, you know, I love to focus on like special interests, which could be very annoying for a neurotypical partner, um because those with ASD and ADHD get
00:15:40
Speaker
um very obsessed with things that make them very excited. And those are their things, right? They like are so close to their heart. and I know for some of my clients, you know it's cross stitching, it's Star Wars, it's DragonCon, whatever it is. and So I think having a respect for the special interest and you know kind of leaning into their special interest as a strength and a way to connect, um you know even if Star Wars isn't your thing, you know being like, all right, you know I will commit to you know trying to you know enjoy this ah as a way to so bond and spend time with my partner. Yeah, I love that so much because
00:16:24
Speaker
Well, yeah. Yes. Like you're describing some details and differences. Like some of this is just being a good partner, like that, that across the board needs to happen. yeah Right? Like if even for me, and I'm, I'm not someone with this diagnosis, but if my husband's like, I already told you that my question will be, what was I doing when you told, when you told me that?
00:16:48
Speaker
Right. was Did you get my full attention before you told me something important? Because like I'm thinking about all the overwhelmed moms out there that are just in constant mental overload where it's just like one more piece of information. like They have to figure out ways to structure how they store information. you know So I think that part of this is just being learning how to communicate as a good partner and realizing that um I guess one of the things that I just feel like is making sure that people don't hear this as like this is a deficit or a fault or something like that of the person that is
Strengths in Neurodiversity: Creativity and Loyalty
00:17:28
Speaker
neurodiverse because it's not it's just a different way of processing. That's such a good thing to bring up and on that note I was in a training recently and they had a PowerPoint page that was ASD and ADHD strengths.
00:17:44
Speaker
Guess what? Nobody's ever brought that up to you know anything I've been a part of. I've been a part of a bunch of IEP meetings for a bunch of kids. ah you know I've done therapy for a long time. I've been to a bunch of trainees. Nobody's ever brought up strengths to me. And a lot of these strengths can apply to relationships. I just want to name a couple of them. you know Generous, kind, quick,
00:18:09
Speaker
quick-witted, creative, ah high energy level, um adaptable, ah ambitious, curious, intelligent, passionate, enthusiastic, accepting, um loyal, open-minded, hyper-focused, goofy. you know like A lot of these things actually, you know when you when you really look at them and and you kind of change your perspective, can be seen as a strength and actually something that adds to a relationship.
00:18:36
Speaker
I am so, thank you for saying that. Like, I didn't have that written down to even talk about like, what are What are the strengths, right? Because I think that we think about like, Okay, what are the challenges and how do we ah navigate them and support each other? But that's such a beautiful way to look at it is just like, Okay, but this comes with a ah lot of things, because everything you just described, I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. Right?
00:18:59
Speaker
Yes, yes, but for like, for some reason, nobody's having that conversation. It's just like, here are the, you know, really difficult things that you have to deal with on a day to day basis. And it makes you somebody that's like, a little bit harder to be with. And you know, we just hear these really negative messages. um yeah Really it plays into like shame and guilt and just I don't know these these really hurtful things So I really want to get the message edge out there that hey there's some real strengths associated with this if we can Change our perspectives if we can have our partner change their perspectives and kind of lean into these things yeah, and I feel like that's I mean again like when it comes to to hobbies and stuff like that and
00:19:43
Speaker
It's good to have hobbies. Neurotypical people need to have hobbies. they and And how many people like make football their entire personality? Sure. right And that's considered yeah very normal. That's very normal. And how many how many partners get on board, even if they don't really like it? And they say, well, I like appetizers. So I will go with you to this football party. um And I'm just going to go for, you know what I mean? like You find other ways to connect while you're there with the other the other partners. or you can still be there and be supportive even if it's not your thing. And people in relationships do that all the time. All the time. Yes. Actually, my husband watches like comedy, like a lot of comedy. He loves, oh, Netflix has a new comedy special. I'm watching that. My neuro divergent brain doesn't understand comedy. Like I have never been able to like laugh at Will Ferrell or you know, all these movies that have come out. I'm like,
00:20:38
Speaker
Uh, other people are laughing. I remember i I went to see, um, Monty Python, like a special showing of Monty. I had never seen it before and I thought it was like, I saw you playing a joke on me. Like somebody was like pranking me. I was like, what is funny? Everybody is cracking up.
00:20:55
Speaker
um and and But I do try um and you know to you know be there, to be present, and to try to get into the joke, and to try to like kind of understand like the nuances of comedy, which is not easy.
00:21:08
Speaker
ah That's an interesting point too when we're talking about dating especially. Like as a um like if you have ASL or ADHD, how much do you feel like there is a pressure to, because we talked a lot about masking on the last episode, how much do you feel like there's a lot of just kind of like I'm faking it right now or I'm just trying to go along and is that
Masking Behavior: Necessity and Harm
00:21:33
Speaker
is that okay? Is that not okay? like what What are your thoughts on that?
00:21:37
Speaker
you know, it's it's so tough, because there is a behavioral expectation out like a minimal, minimal acceptable behavioral expectation out there in the world. um You know, you It's healthy to be able to go into a restaurant and order food and have that interaction You know to be able to go into a grocery store pick out a couple things and say hello to somebody in the checkout counter um You know there is a minimal level of things that you need to do to get by in life um You know ah above that um Masking
00:22:17
Speaker
A masking can be hurtful and harmful when you are like faking it to a great extent all the time, definitely. But I see the need for it, right? like i like I understand you know to have these interactions, you know to to go to school, um to have a job, right? You you do have to be like have a little bit of um small talk, um to to to have some some level of interactions, I suppose.
00:22:45
Speaker
But I guess that's, yeah, so like if you're dating, okay, so like what what you're saying you do with your husband, you'll watch comedy with him. And I don't consider that masking like when you're trying, I feel like again, that's being a good partner is saying like, this is an interest of yours, and I'm trying to get into it with you.
00:23:01
Speaker
um But how much of that is gonna be expected while dating so if you're neuro neuro diverse and you're on a date and you're trying to get into something that. you Your date is into but it's just like it's just not landing for me this is just not my thing like what's i guess what i'm asking is like what's the difference in.
00:23:21
Speaker
masking to a point that you are not allowing yourself to be authentic, which I feel like is harmful, versus it's okay to try to show up for other people. And um even if it doesn't really land with you, you can be supportive of them. and Like what's the where's that line?
00:23:40
Speaker
Sure. Yes. um And a lot of people with a ah autism ADHD can be um like very direct. um And so I've seen before like a a dating interaction where it's like, well, I'm not interested in that. So let's talk about something else. But that's not really being, I guess, respectful to like ah the other There are persons in trust. So I do feel like, now this is a little bit like socially complicated, but there could be a tactful way to you know honor what somebody's into while also trying to move on to a subject that you are able to have like healthy interactions within. Yeah, and even that is very nuanced. Yes, it is. i
00:24:26
Speaker
you know I have had clients go on um ah successful dates and be in successful relationships while experiencing ADHD and ASD.
00:24:38
Speaker
um And I think you know one of the tricks was finding a partner and that you know and may and ah you know maybe doesn't have the diagnosis but has experienced some of that themselves so they can relate ah to the difficulties and they can be understanding and patient.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I would imagine like, I know you and your husband have been together for a very long time. I mean remember meeting him when you had just met him. That was years ago. Um, and so I would imagine that like, it's easier at this point for you to be able to vocalize like, yeah, I'm not into that or, um,
00:25:19
Speaker
whatever that might be, but it's different when it's a first or second date. ah Yes, it's so different. Yeah, yeah and and you don't want to put too much out there. you know There's like dating codes these days, which that makes it so much harder for ASD and ADHD to kind of adhere to this, you know because you know they they they might want to like text somebody and be like, hey, that went well, I
Social Media Norms in Dating Contexts
00:25:46
Speaker
really like you. Let's go out again. But then there's um what is it called on snapchat like oh but left me on red or like you know i need to leave him on red so that he doesn't think i'm too into it there's there i don't know if she has spoken little codes which is like really hard to navigate when you have a hard time reading social cues for sure
00:26:08
Speaker
I mean, Snapchat has its own handbook of um how to ah communicate in the in the dating world. you know I think ah really social media has made it more complicated. you know There's like 15 different ways to communicate. you know Do you do the DM? Do you do the Snapchat? Oh, for sure. What's not enough?
00:26:30
Speaker
ah Yeah, because so much gets lost in translation anyways, with that kind of communication. So do you feel like, um like, how important is it when you first meet someone, like, at what point do you kind of share with them? Or what do you advise for people to share, like, Hey, I do have this diagnosis, and just to I don't know, like I can see both ways where on one hand it's just like, you don't owe people an explanation for yourself, but at the same time, like if you are interested in them just to have that conversation to say like, have you ever dated someone with this before? Or to kind of like see from the very beginning, like, do they have the capacity to be patient and to be all the things that you've listed? um I guess like what is your recommendation for how soon do you share those things?
00:27:19
Speaker
you know I really like the idea of like disclosing um sooner than later, I guess, to find out kind of what what type of person are you seeing? you know Is it somebody that's going to be respectful, patient-in-kind, um you know and see where they're at with it? you know I really you know value that type of disclosure, and I would want that type of disclosure from a partner too, you know to see if um you know if this is something that we're going to be able to connect and move forward with.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that. um So that you don't waste your time. Yes, I know. Yeah, time is precious. Time is valuable. And I've had that work out well for people. um You know, hey, if I'm not making eye contact or, um you know, like I can't really, you know, exactly tell how this is going, but I'm having a good time. You know, I i think I think that's important.
00:28:10
Speaker
What about couples therapy? like once Once you do get a little bit further on into the relationship, is couples therapy a good tool for being able to, I don't know, like have an outside part? Not necessarily. I think a lot of people think that couples therapy is for when you're having issues. and I think it can be so preventative and proactive too. like Is that a good thing to go to proactively? to learn each other's communication styles? Yes, I think it could be really wonderful, um especially with a therapist that's really well versed in ASD and That would be important and you know well versed in the types of communication.
00:28:48
Speaker
um preferred so ah but i think uh it's funny i had a client once that was in um couples therapy and they were like have you seen the statistics on couples therapy they're horrible you know and i i'm sure i've never done that blah blah blah but you know i come to find out like a lot of people only go to couples therapy when they've already decided the relationship's over They're at the bitter end, okay? like It is not gonna work, so they're like, let me just throw this one last thing at it. So very few percentage of people are like, let's go to couples therapy just to like make sure we are communicating, make sure we are functioning well together.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's so true. people do it So many people do it because they're like, I want to be able to say that I did it when I walk away because I've already decided that I'm going to end this. you know Yes, I want to be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried everything. Yes. Yeah.
Body Doubles: Support in Daily Routines
00:29:43
Speaker
um One of the other things that you had mentioned was body double.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yes. So why a relationship can be a very positive thing for somebody with ASD and ADHD is having a body double because i a lot of time people with ASD and ADHD struggle with kind of self-awareness, when to eat, when to shower, ah you know waking up in the morning, going to bed at a normal time. And kind of having a partner to do these things with can actually help them to be like healthier and happier. That's so interesting. when When you had that down, I didn't even really know what you meant by it, but it's just kind of like someone to like literally mirror.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yes, exactly. exactly and One of the things I really like to work with is ARFID, Avoidant Restrictive Feeding Disorder. and so A lot of my clients really struggle with this. Sometimes they get into a relationship and they're like, oh this person's eating three times a day. So so now I have to sit at a table with food and and I guess maybe I'll start eating you know a little bit more and a little bit more frequently at normal times because um with ASD and ADHD, you might be out of touch with your hunger sensor. You might not really feel hungry. That might not be important to you. So it can really be helpful in that sense. Oh, I love that so much. I never would have given that any thought before.
00:31:13
Speaker
Yes. And I only know because of um you know client self-report, only because I've actually seen it work. I've seen clients' lives improve from this ah body double. um I also um have seen it even with getting an emotional support animal. you know yeah Like, OK, I have to feed the dog, so I'll eat too. I have to take the dog out. That means I have to get out of bed in the morning you know and kind of you know increasing that you know that bond, that responsibility. Oh, I love that so much. Yeah.
Impulsivity Challenges in ADHD Relationships
00:31:42
Speaker
Um, and what about when you had impulsivity written down? Yes. So impulsivity, huge struggle. Um, especially with the ADHD. So, um, that can make ah relationships more difficult. you know kind of Maybe it's impulsive spending, you know impulsive decision-making, um and and and it can cause a lot of relationship problems. you know As we've talked about before, there unfortunately, there is a higher divorce rate amongst individuals experiencing ASD and ADHD.
00:32:21
Speaker
um so it's like and and and That's a really sad, negative statistic, but like it needs to be talked about because it's like, what can we do to like try to preserve these relationships you know and help people understand like you know what kind of comes along with these diagnoses? um And you know unfortunately, that impulsivity is there. um Therapy can definitely help with um managing it, being grounded in reality, um you know ah ah taking time to focus on the decision, you know not making the decision immediately,
00:32:54
Speaker
you know let Let's put that stuff in your Amazon cart and wait 24 to 48 hours before you um you know rack up some credit card bill that could lead into divorce. um These things can get out of control quickly. and so it's like It is up to the neurodivergent person to like manage their decision making and to you know to get therapy, um use medication if necessary, but it is also so ah up to the partner to like support them in that and to um have a little bit of patience.
00:33:25
Speaker
Okay, so when you're talking about impulsivity that way, it makes me think of another thing that you had mentioned before we started talking about how how um how common it can be misdiagnosed because it can have some um characteristics that mirror some other disorders. And so like impulsivity comes with a lot of different mood mood disorders, right?
00:33:53
Speaker
And I guess is that is that what you mean? that um Is that why it's so commonly misdiagnosed?
Misdiagnosis: Neurodiversity vs. Mood Disorders
00:34:00
Speaker
Because I think you had written down like mood disorders, borderline, um anxiety, those things.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I think that can lead us into the conversation about reject rejection sensitive dysphoria, um which is really commonly experienced. I mean, i um I can't speak for everybody, but I would definitely say the majority of people with ASD and ADHD experience rejection sensitive dysphoria to a pretty high degree.
00:34:27
Speaker
um but So that their kind of reactions are often disproportionate to the situation causing a lot of distress. You know, they get triggered by something, they feel rejected, that automatically sends them into a panic. um And so in that way, it can really mimic, you know, a lot of ah borderline personality disorder kind of stuff. and and it's so hard because like borderline it comes with this like super negative super awful stigma um i i really ah you know i i kind of hate it i wish we could change the name i i i don't i don't know so i feel like every time somebody has a borderline diagnosis we really really ah need to go through and rule out ASD and ADHD because they could just be reacting reacting to that rejection sensitive dysphoria and it just kind of like mimics or appears as a borderline type thing. It can also look like ah like like like bipolar a little bit, you know like a mania, you know having that kind of reaction that is so disproportionate to the event.
00:35:36
Speaker
gosh, i'm I'm just taking in everything you're saying because like, that's so fascinating to me. So is rejection sensitive dysphoria? Is that unique to it? Like, is that the term that's used to describe only in ASD and ADHD? Or is that just used to talk about that overreaction that could be happening, whether it's anxiety or whether it's bipolar or something like that?
00:36:02
Speaker
Sure. So, I mean, the way that I've heard it talked about is um with ASD and ADHD, but, ah you know, kind of like the symptoms of ASD and ADHD, I believe that anybody could be experiencing symptoms. So, um you know, I think any human on this earth um could be experiencing infection sensitive dysphoria, for sure. um So do you feel like that is often, okay, so when we're talking about interpreting social cues,
00:36:33
Speaker
is that what leads to it often is that there's been a misinterpretation. And so you you see something as rejection when it may or may not be. And because you perceive it as rejection, you have this big emotional response to it. And sometimes it seems disproportionate, especially to the other person, because they're over there thinking like, no, I wasn't trying to reject you in any way, but you but there was a misinterpretation. Like is that how it presents pretty frequently?
00:37:01
Speaker
Yes, yes. and um and you know The person could show some you know anger or sadness um or you know panic, anxiety, anxiety attack um which you know from the misreading of the social cues causing them to feel an overwhelming sense of rejection. so I want to talk about where this comes from though. like When you've spent your whole life um just not fitting in, feeling different, not feeling accepted, that kind of um you know rejection-sensitive dysphoria is kind of built into the ADHD experience. um So it's very hard to weed out what's what in these situations. Yeah, and that's so important too to say.
00:37:48
Speaker
It may come off as like a bigger reaction, but those feelings are very real. Definitely. And that's something to keep in mind is um if you're a neurotypical person, especially in in a relationship to have like, that's where you lean into your compassion to say, even if I didn't mean it that way. It's still caused
Emotional Validation in Neurodiverse Relationships
00:38:07
Speaker
that reaction. And so if if the person is upset or they're anxious, just really like validate those emotions, because they are the experience of them is very real.
00:38:18
Speaker
And the work I've had to do on myself is expressing like, this is how I'm feeling. It's real for me. I understand it might not be my partner's reality. um And it might not even be it based in any reality, but it's real for me right now. And I need the opportunity to process it, to experience that um you know give me an opportunity to do some grounding, give me an opportunity to touch touch base with reality, to figure out kind of what's what? What am I triggered by um you know from feeling like an outcast in the first grade? you know yeah And then what's actually in this conversation that I'm actually having right now with my partner.
00:38:59
Speaker
And do you feel like for the partner, is that moment not the right moment to try to get into the communication of what these this is what my intention was like to explain like once once that person is already kind of flooded with emotion, is it better to help them process help them ground and then maybe at a later time go back and say like,
00:39:22
Speaker
what did you What did I do that you interpreted as rejection? Sure. So I think i think it's both, right? Some people and kind of heal with a lot of validation and a lot of support. And then some people need that like individual alone time, like, hey, I just need a minute. I'm going to take a walk. I'm going to go to a different room. Let me think about this. ah Let me kind of ah just come back down to earth, ground myself in reality, and then we can kind of move forward together from there. So it really just depends on how your brain's wired, I think.
00:39:51
Speaker
Okay. And that that's another helpful thing to know when you talk about like coming back to yourself and knowing yourself really, really well is when these moments happen, what's what's helpful for you in the moment? What do you need in that moment? And then you can communicate that with your partner. ah Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything about relationships that we didn't cover that you want to get to?
00:40:15
Speaker
I mean, I think we got to everything because yeah I really did want to focus on like the sensory and social awareness and challenges. you know ah Via social awareness, I think um people with ASD and ADHD might not know how they're coming off. They could come off rude.
00:40:30
Speaker
um They can come off not caring. and They can come off aloof and not invested um when in reality they are. It's just um you know kind of how they are wired. um So I think that's ah another thing to be aware of.
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Okay. This is so much good information. Um, we are going to break here for today and we will be back next week and we're going to talk a little bit more about, um, a different aspect, which is going to be, we're going to be talking about periods and hormonal changes and how those fluctuations change week to week during the month, during the cycle. Um, so make sure you turn tune in next week because Megan is going to be back and we're going to be covering a whole new topic.
00:41:17
Speaker
Until next week, we'll talk to you later. Bye.
00:41:22
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of outside of session. Remember while I am a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for individual therapy. The contents of this episode are for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you are having a mental health emergency, please dial 911 for immediate assistance or dial 988 for the suicide and crisis lifeline.