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Launching Forward: Emerging into Adulthood Part 1
129 Plays9 months ago
In this week’s episode, we tackle the common yet often misunderstood experience of (what was formerly known as) “Failure to Launch.” Join Julie for a compassionate conversation with Dr. Sean Hirt, as we explore the challenges individuals and their families face when navigating this life transition, be it in career, relationships, or personal development. Whether you are personally experiencing a 'failure to launch' moment or seeking a better understanding for someone in your life who is, you won’t want to miss this episode.
About this week's guest:
Dr. Sean Hirt is a Licensed Psychologist & Practice Founder of Hirt Psychology. He has an array of clinical experience in a variety of settings including private practice, residential treatment centers, non-public schools, and emergency shelters. He is particularly sought out for his expertise in treating and addressing anxiety, depression, poor self-esteem, behavioral issues, and autism spectrum disorder in children and adolescents. Other areas of focus include substance abuse, life-transition issues & trauma-related disorders.
Get in touch:
https://www.hirtpsychology.com/sean-hirt
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Transcript
Season 2 Introduction
00:00:11
Speaker
Welcome back to season two of Outside of Session. I'm your host, licensed clinical social worker, and therapist BFF, Julie Hilton. This season, I'm interviewing some incredible guests who also happen to be experts in their fields. Mental health, motherhood, spirituality, and so much more, I can't wait for their stories to be told. These are all the conversations I'm having outside of session.
Meet Dr. Shawn Hurt
00:00:46
Speaker
Hey everyone and welcome back to another two-part episode of Outside of Session. This week and next week, I'm going to be talking with Dr. Shawn Hurt about the struggles that come with figuring out how to be an adult to those emerging into adulthood. You'll find out in this conversation that this area was formerly known and used to be referred to as failure to launch, but we'll explain why we don't really like this phrasing anymore.
00:01:13
Speaker
I think a lot of parents especially are going to want to listen to today's episode. So a little bit more about today's guest, Dr. Shawn Hurt is a licensed psychologist and practice founder of Hurt Psychology, which is here in the Atlanta area. Shawn has an array of clinical experience in a variety of settings, including private practice,
00:01:33
Speaker
residential treatment centers, non-public schools, and emergency shelters. He's particularly sought out for his expertise in treating and addressing anxiety, depression, poor self-esteem, behavioral issues, and autism spectrum disorder in children and adolescents. Other areas of focus include substance abuse, life transition issues, and trauma-related disorders.
00:01:57
Speaker
So I hope you enjoy today's episode and make sure you tune in next week as we continue the conversation of emerging adults.
Reframing 'Failure to Launch'
00:02:07
Speaker
Hey Sean, good morning. Good morning. Thank you so much for being here today. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So we are going to be talking today about
00:02:21
Speaker
failure to launch, but even before we hit record and we were starting to talk about this a little bit, we both were like, eh, I don't know if that's the right way to phrase this or the right way to start talking about this because that language is a little bit outdated at this point. So I wanted to say like, hold on a second, let's go ahead and start recording this because you were already making some really good points here. So how would you, what do you want to speak to on what was previously known as failure to launch and what kind of language are you using in your practice now?
00:02:50
Speaker
So, so I think it's a, it's a moving target. Um, I, you know, at one point had no problem, right? With that terminology, but then like the more that I thought I started to think about it, it's like, Ooh, like failure, right? And is it failure on the, you know, the, um, identified client, right? Or the emerging young adult?
00:03:13
Speaker
Is it failure on the parents? Is it failure on society? And all of those, it's just such a big word, failure, right? Because there's always things that we can change, right? I was joking with you before that as a parent, there's something I could have done differently this morning, I'm sure, right? And probably will be something that I can do differently later. So if we move away from the shame, the shaming part of it, and we move more into a,
00:03:43
Speaker
What makes the most sense? Maybe we're talking about emerging adulthood, right?
Emerging Adulthood as a Life Stage
00:03:51
Speaker
And how that's a new concept. Yeah, I like that language better. Say that again. Emerging adulthood. Emerging adulthood. OK.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, which is I've got to give credit where credit's due. That's from Jeffrey Arnett in the late 90s. So not I mean, it's not one of my things, but but it's a much nicer way to think about it. And I think within the context of emerging adulthood, which is something that, you know,
00:04:17
Speaker
all 18 to even 30 somethings are experiencing. Similarly, it's just like a new stage of life, similar to how once adolescence was coined at one point, and then people started to think about that differently. And then within that subset of emerging adults, there are people who are struggling to meet those developmental milestones along the way.
00:04:45
Speaker
So in your practice, I know, I know this is something that you specialize in and you work with a lot. So that's kind of what it is. 18 to 30 people who are, um, becoming young adults and learning how to adult, right? And you're helping people that are not right. You're helping people that are not necessarily hitting the milestones that maybe that they want for themselves, or is it they're typically their family wants for them? Um, like I guess, how would you define,
00:05:13
Speaker
And I phrased it this way with a couple of the other episodes that I've done. What do people already know when they come to you? Like how do they identify what their presenting problem is? Yeah.
Parental Expectations and Mental Health
00:05:26
Speaker
So most of the time, um, it's, you know, these are, I'm just generalizing, but most of the time it's that the parents coming wondering,
00:05:37
Speaker
You know, our kid is 19 or, you know, 23 or 27. And in some form or fashion, they're not doing what their parents imagined that they would be doing, right, at this point. Oftentimes, by the time that the clients are with me, they're already experiencing depression, anxiety, right?
00:06:06
Speaker
have maybe had some attempts at college and they didn't work out for whatever reason or they're just having a hard time figuring out what it is that they want. And I'm sure you're gonna ask me more questions about that. So typically when they come though, it is parent driven and so my job is to really get to the core of when I'm finally meeting with the identified client anyways.
00:06:35
Speaker
What do you want? How can this not be a waste of your time? What is going to be relevant to you? Because if we can figure out what's relevant to them, well, then they're motivated. Then it matters.
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. One of the questions that I was going to ask is how do you work on engaging someone in therapy? Because I guess I assumed that a lot of times it's a parent reaching out first, because I've had some of that too, of a parent reaching out saying, I want this
Therapeutic Engagement Strategies
00:07:10
Speaker
for my child. So can you fix it? Can you do it for me? And I'm like, no, I cannot. But I'm happy to talk to your child and see if they want my help with anything.
00:07:21
Speaker
So I like that you said that your first goal is to say, what do you want out of this? How do we make sure that our goal here is not your parents' goal for you? But how do we identify what's important to you right now? Right. Well, because I also think that
00:07:37
Speaker
or at least in my experience, I'm normally not the first person that they've seen, right? This may be like an ongoing thing. And so there's also this template of how this has gone in the past, right? And so for the young adult,
00:07:54
Speaker
there's a template for the parents, there's a template, but most often or many times it starts in adolescence and we don't necessarily want the adolescent sort of parent dynamic anymore. And so if we fall right back into that, right?
00:08:11
Speaker
Which i have walked backwards before and i'm sure i will again like we want to try to shift it to one of more where the parents are not it's not an adversarial sort of thing but it's it's there they're like you know confidence right or or at least people that they could go to you know for advice if they wanted to.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I think people don't always realize that therapy is experiential on its own. And so you're learning how to do things in therapy so that it will translate into life, right? Like with a lot of my clients with trauma,
00:08:54
Speaker
They're learning how to be vulnerable. They're learning how to feel safe with another person. And when they can experience that with me in this very sacred space that we hold as therapists, then when they get comfortable with it, they can start to translate it. Well, maybe I can have a romantic relationship. Maybe I can start to fill that with
00:09:15
Speaker
a friend or something like that. And it starts in the therapy room. And what I think you're describing is very similar, that if we want people to be able to make decisions for themselves and make adult decisions for themselves, that needs to be happening in therapy with
Anxiety and Adult Responsibilities
00:09:30
Speaker
you as well. Like they have to learn to have authority over their own experience with you in therapy. Yeah, absolutely. Because
00:09:42
Speaker
I think the big questions that come up is, are am I capable? Can I actually do the things that are being asked of me? And I think that that is rooted a lot in the way that society is right now. Kids are overmanaged.
00:10:04
Speaker
It's like they are moving from one activity to another where there is a person in charge telling them what to do. Right. So then all of the sudden you become 18, 19 and it's like, go do adult things. I don't know. I don't know how to do that. I've had somebody directing me this whole time and
00:10:28
Speaker
But I think it's something subtle that happens, right? It's the best of intentions to have our kids in all of these different activities and to have, you know, adults that are going to help to guide them. But it's also really scary when all of a sudden it's like, okay, go, go and do.
00:10:51
Speaker
I could tell you a story. It's a personal story. The first time that I ever had to have my own tag renewed for my car, it was like, okay, you need to go renew your tag. I don't know how to do that. I didn't know what to get. It scared me when I got to the counter. Are they going to take me seriously or are they going to left me away? Are they going to know that I have no idea what I'm doing?
00:11:21
Speaker
And you know, I said, I don't know what to do. And he said, okay, well go in there, right? Take what you think you need and say, I don't know what I'm doing and they'll be okay with that. And so to know that that's okay and that that's an option, right? And that there's no way you're going to know how to do all of these things. It's funny that you said that because my sister and I have this ongoing joke that it's the post office for us.
00:11:51
Speaker
As adults, we have major post office anxiety where we're like, I don't know, I don't know how to mail stuff. I don't know how to ship stuff. Because that was something that we just never were shown how to do. And we didn't want to have that vulnerable moment of walking in and saying, I don't know how to do this. And so I think that that normalizes that that
00:12:09
Speaker
that uncomfortable feeling is going to be a part of the journey for everybody. Like I think that we all have those moments in adulthood where, whether it's figuring out how to register to vote or renew your tag or something like that, those are going to be uncomfortable moments, but it's okay because you're not expected to know that.
Economic Challenges and Independence
00:12:27
Speaker
Right. And I, right. And I also wonder if part of, um,
00:12:35
Speaker
And I'm not going to bash social media or anything like that. But part of it is like, okay, but we see people that seemingly are doing everything and killing it. And we're seeing sort of a stage show. And I wonder if that in part is contributing to this feeling of I'm supposed to have these things figured out.
00:13:03
Speaker
I should already know, right? Should, right? So I think that it's really complicated. So when a client comes to see me, when I'm talking with the client, I'm trying to figure out what do they want, right? What direction do they want to move, right?
00:13:27
Speaker
And then with the parents, I'm trying to normalize the experience of emerging adulthood and that it's almost impossible to go and to get a job straight out of high school that you can pay for your own place.
00:13:47
Speaker
Oh my gosh. That was another whole element of this that I wanted to talk about that things have changed drastically for young adults. Yes. Yes.
00:14:02
Speaker
When, when I was 18, I was in college and I worked full time, but it was still like an entry level job at a grocery store and I was able to afford an apartment and a car. And that's just, that is not the world that we live in. And so how, how have you seen that impact the self-esteem maybe of young adults? So, so whenever I, I make that point and I try to make that point with, you know, um, identified client and then parents together.
00:14:30
Speaker
The identified clients always, or the emerging adults, I was like, yeah, yeah. It's super, and I think it's validated. It's validated, yeah. And I think that it's, for a lot of the parents, it's like, yeah. Like, that is true. Like, that is absolutely true. It's just something that they hadn't thought about, right? Or maybe they had, and they kind of put it aside,
00:14:57
Speaker
because of their own, you know, potential anxieties around, you know, what their kid, you know, is doing currently. So, but when someone is coming in, right, I really, I want to, and we talked a little bit about this before, my hope is that I can help them to feel empowered, right? Everybody all the way around, right? And so, you know, does the, how can the emerging adult feel empowered? Does that mean,
00:15:28
Speaker
that we need to make them, you know, go eat out at restaurants or, you know, or, you know, register for their classes, right? Or like doing the sort of like just tasks, right? Does that mean for the parent that I need to help them with messaging around, look, we are willing to support you, but here are our expectations. And without those, you know, being met, you know,
00:15:58
Speaker
It's your choice, you are an adult. But if you want the financial support or whatever it may be, then we want you to, the common ones in my mind are if you want to be a writer, you needed to actively be pursuing that and probably have some sort of job for some structure in the meantime. But so getting a plan that everybody feels more at peace with,
00:16:26
Speaker
and feel like they're moving in the right direction then, I think is important. So do you end up doing a combination of individual and family therapy most of the time?
Family Dynamics in Therapy
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, so oftentimes that is the case, particularly initially because it's very much about just kind of setting the new standard, right? And having a really frank conversation with an emerging adult
00:16:56
Speaker
that, look, if I was able to stay in my room and play games or engage in whatever I prefer and not have a lot of responsibility and all of my needs were met, then I probably wouldn't be very motivated either. And so if we want to change that and we want to move that needle so you can feel more motivated, we may have to put in some things that aren't going to feel good.
00:17:27
Speaker
So ideally you're bringing along the emerging adult just by leveling with them, which I think a lot of times they appreciate. Yeah, I can see that. It also makes me wonder,
00:17:48
Speaker
How often do you find that once you get in there and get to know them and build some rapport with them, how often do you hear, well, I'm not doing this because this is what I want. I want to be on my own. I want to be independent. I want to be successful all of these things. I just, maybe I don't think that I can or I don't know how to get there because like you said, there's a lot of depression going on, a lot of anxiety. So,
00:18:18
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to ask here. I guess like how do you get parents even to understand that they're not necessarily doing this because this is what they want for themselves, but maybe it's a lack of feeling like you have any control over your life. Is that pretty common? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think it's incredibly common, right? That, that, um,
00:18:45
Speaker
And honestly, a lot of times when I ask the question, well, what do you want? They haven't been asked that a lot, right? Because that, and that's not, that's definitely not a dig at the parents or anything like that. It's just, there's like, we have this idea as a society, right? Of like how we move things along. And so, and sometimes what I found is even like, sometimes the parents, they're like, I don't care what they do.
00:19:11
Speaker
I just want them to do something that is moving them in a direction, but maybe it's from watching friends and what they're doing or what they've just grown up with the expectation being certain things that they've internalized that. A lot of it is pulling that apart. Sometimes it can be pretty eye-opening for the emerging adult as well when their parents are like,
00:19:40
Speaker
Do whatever it is that motivates you. And of course, there's times when that's not the case. But oftentimes, I think it's just like a fresh and honest perspective, almost like an inventory taking of the beliefs that are kind of swirling around needs to be done.
00:20:10
Speaker
That's really interesting because yeah, I guess that there's kind of an assumption that when people, when a family comes through the door, that everybody is already on the same page and that they're understanding each other and what they expect of each other. That's not necessarily true. Like there's a lot of assumptions going on that they, yeah. Yeah. So you talked about the depression, the increasing rates of depression and anxiety.
00:20:41
Speaker
And I think that a big part of it for this population is if you're not doing things and you're not being productive, that is absolutely going to contribute. And then you get into nutrition, you get into sleep scheduling, you get into screen time, which I
00:21:05
Speaker
Look, I like video games myself, right? But at the same time, it's when we're engaged in those activities, we're not doing a lot of other things like getting outside, exercising, socializing with friends in person. But I don't want to minimize the community that is created online because that is a real thing. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
So, it's this kind of delicate balancing act where we're trying to just see what makes sense for this individual to, again, feel more empowered, like they have more say, that they can be taken seriously.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. But I also hear that you're talking about a lot of different, like you said, moving pieces, like I'm hearing a little bit about skill development, like working on that. Also, developing new routines that will support goals, sleep schedule, sleep hygiene, stuff like that, nutrition, which I think is incredibly important.
00:22:09
Speaker
But then you're also talking about dealing with the mental health piece of it that comes up with it too, right? Like how do we work through depression? How do we work on something? So there's some just straight up therapy in there too, right? Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it is complicated. And I think that, you know, you really, I try to, let me speak, I really try to approach each case with curiosity.
00:22:39
Speaker
about what is going on, what's maintaining, what's working really well, what's not working so well. But there are a lot of moving parts. And sometimes, the other question that comes up a lot is, is this a ability issue? Or is this a motivation issue?
00:23:09
Speaker
It, like, in which of those, like, that's what parents want to know a lot, because if it's, if this is truly, right, like, they are incapable of doing it because of debilitating depression, which happens, debilitating anxiety, which happens, right? There isn't a bit of a different approach, right? But what I find more often than not is if we can create, like, a supported path, right, to walk
00:23:36
Speaker
um, you know, with someone through developing these skills, right? The development of skills is, is going to improve. So you're spot on that, um, you know, skill development and again, empowering like the, the, and that the young adults and the parents, right? Because sometimes you're doing skill development with the parents as well. Um, is it's all a part of it. Right. And oftentimes we don't know, you know,
00:24:06
Speaker
what individuals are capable of, right? I mean, we never really know. But if we can put certain things in place, we can at least help them to try to figure that question out for themselves.
00:24:26
Speaker
Let's say we have listeners who are the emerging adult, and they're listening to this, and maybe they're not in therapy, but they saw a podcast about this, and maybe their parents have, there's tension in the home, their parents have been on them.
Hope for Change in Young Adults
00:24:40
Speaker
Maybe even parents have mentioned going to therapy before, but it feels probably daunting and overwhelming. And again, like you said, they've probably tried different routes before in adolescence, and it's always been that parent-child dynamic, and they don't want to repeat that.
00:24:54
Speaker
I guess what would you want them to know about the potential for change, the hope for change, and how that would look, like how you would support them through that? Well, that's a big question. I think it starts with simply asking them, you know, what do you think you need, right?
00:25:22
Speaker
and then working from there. So if they ended up on my couch, air quotes, then what is it that you think that you need right now? And starting from there. It is going to be scary. And that's okay. And if you talk to other people, they're scared too. We just don't talk about those things.
00:25:54
Speaker
And so really just that it doesn't have to be this way, right? That you're probably far more capable than you're giving yourself credit for and that you won't know if you don't try, right? I mean, that's the, you know, after working with someone for a while, they come in and they'll say stuff like, yeah, I mean, I just should have, you know,
00:26:19
Speaker
gone for it or I just should have tried it earlier. It wasn't that big of a deal. In fact, well, I guess this is only going to be heard and not seen, but there's this image of these two forests. I had the picture side by side and I asked one of my clients, what do you see when you look at these? One of them is this scary, spooky, haunted forest.
00:26:49
Speaker
And this other one is like this pleasant, like, you know, sunshine and it's green and it's, you know, nice looking. And he's like, well, the, the haunted one is what my mind told me, right? All of these experiences were going to be, the other one was closer to my reality, right? Was closer to the reality of actually doing it, which I was like, okay, like that's, that's wonderful and profound, like all in its own way, right? Like, so.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah. I think the biggest message would just be that, you know, find some people that you feel like you can be honest about and try it out, right? Try being a little bit honest about your fears and see what you get back. You don't have to open yourself up to be so vulnerable, right? That it would be incredibly painful if they didn't reciprocate, but you can do it just a little bit at a time. And you probably, you know, if you really give it a go,
00:27:50
Speaker
you'll be amazed at what you can do. Yeah. I love all of that. So same question. What would you say to maybe a parent who potentially is frustrated right now or they feel helpless and knowing how to help their child? What would you want them to know? Um, that this, this isn't, you know, parents like to blame themselves, right?
00:28:18
Speaker
and so Okay, like let's let's try to work on that. Let's try to stop that because Surely, right? This is not all on you right and There's there like and there are gonna be some things that you probably can change that will help and that's good news Right, like that's good news. We're not we're not all gonna get this thing. Perfect and and so You know if if you are
00:28:48
Speaker
You know, if you're a parent, the other message that I like to send to parents is, you know, your young adult or emerging adult is not enjoying this either, right? And so really getting back to like more of like this team sort of effort and approach and trying to build in some compassion for them as well, because it is incredibly frustrating when you're working or when your child, you know, just isn't doing the things that you think would help them.
00:29:19
Speaker
The other thing is it's okay to set limits. Hey everyone, I just wanted to pause for a quick moment to say thank you so much for all the love and support that you're showing outside of session. If you haven't already, do me a huge favor and hit the subscribe button. Give me a five star review and share this podcast with all of your friends. Help me take this show to another level.
00:29:49
Speaker
Now back to today's episode.
00:29:53
Speaker
Well, we had a little bit of a technical difficulty, but we're back now. I had asked the question when you're talking with a parent that might be listening, and you were talking about making sure that they know that this is not a failure on their part, because we're not using failure, right? So if you're talking with a parent that it's good news, I remember you said it's good news at this point that
00:30:19
Speaker
They could make some changes too. Yeah, absolutely. Some of those changes may mean that there are just hard lines. Let's say that there is someone that is in their room and they're not really doing much and not contributing to the household, whatever the case may be. Okay, well, you have until this date to find a job.
00:30:49
Speaker
And if you don't find a job, right, um, we are going to remove the computer from your room or we are going to like, and that's okay. And a lot of times they need coaching through. Well, you know, that's the one thing that they have, or that's the one outlet that they have. Um, and, and so I really don't want to take that. And the truth is, is as long as it's a reasonable expectation, right?
00:31:19
Speaker
I think that it's okay. And if that means that the young adult needs help getting the job and knowing how to walk through that fear and the support and everything, absolutely. But the end goal is it hopefully leaves the young adult feeling more empowered because now they have a job and they're doing something and they're around people and it might be scary, but it's like they're moving in a direction.
00:31:47
Speaker
And for the parents, they also feel like they're doing something, right? Because a lot of times, and you know this, when people come to us, I don't know what to do, right? Like I have this issue in my life that I don't quite know what to do about it. Yeah, I'm thinking too about the,
00:32:15
Speaker
the emotions of the parents and how, because you're right, I think that
00:32:20
Speaker
Parents love to blame themselves. They love to take on so much, right? How important is it to make sure that the parents are doing their work at the same time emotionally? Because what you're talking about is setting some boundaries, which is always incredibly hard to do. Boundaries, it's just hard. Because especially when it's someone that you love and you want to see them thrive in whatever way,
00:32:48
Speaker
Sometimes setting that boundary can feel harsh. It can feel like tough love doesn't feel good sometimes, you know? So how do you help the parents work through their own feelings of, am I failing my child by setting this boundary? Well, and this is where, you know, I mean, at times or oftentimes there's a recommendation that they're in their own individual therapy as well.
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, because there is this, you know, everybody kind of needs a lane and needs to be able to know what they're, you know, what, what they're, what they're working on. Right. Um, but the other thing is once you sort of lay it out, right. Like your observations, right. Or once I lay out like my observations of like what, what I'm seeing from like the outside looking in, right.
00:33:45
Speaker
and what those sort of recommendations are and why, and I can give the reasoning and the rationale behind the recommendations. Most of the time, they're able to. And when they're not, sometimes there is some more individual work. What I do find oftentimes is that
00:34:15
Speaker
Once there's hope instilled again, people always amaze you.
00:34:23
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And I imagine too, um, hearing from a professional, you know, as a parent, I think when, when you can tell yourself, well, Dr.
Parental Guidance and Boundaries
00:34:35
Speaker
Hurt said that if we do this, that this is a loving thing to do. And that this is a step in the right direction. I think it gives us the reassurance because you know, so much of parenting is, you feel like you don't know what you're doing. Yep.
00:34:51
Speaker
because there's no guidebook. Every child is so unique and so different that even if it worked with one of your kids, it doesn't work with the next one, right? And so I think sometimes, like you said, when people come in and it's a feeling of, I don't know what to do, having that guide is just, I would imagine such a relief to be able to say, okay, we're going to try it. We don't know exactly what's going to come from it, but we have hope that we have the next step. Yeah.
00:35:19
Speaker
I think getting back to natural and logical sort of consequences, right, is important too. You know, we talked earlier in the session about what it sort of looks like that our kids are over-managed, right. Oftentimes, I think that along with over-managing, right, through coaches, teachers, et cetera, right,
00:35:45
Speaker
Um, all, all best of intentions, right? But what ends up happening is we also remove like these sort of consequences, right? That are natural and logical, right? Like it makes sense that if that it makes sense for there to be a deadline at which you can no longer turn in your late work. Right. Because that's that, that is the way that it is. Right. Um, and.
00:36:11
Speaker
I don't want to sound too gruff or anything like that, but once you get out and you are in a job or you are doing whatever, there are things in hard deadlines that we need to become accustomed to. One of the things I talk a lot about with my clients is building that muscle of doing what you don't want to do.
00:36:36
Speaker
Right? Because that's, it's a skill. I mean, it is a skill and I don't, you know, I've not found a way to escape that in my own life,
Teaching Delayed Gratification
00:36:47
Speaker
right? Like sometimes there are things that you have to do. And so if we can practice some of these things and get used to kind of pushing through some of those things, and I'm not talking about if there are like clinical issues that need to be dealt with, right? Like if it's, this is something different, right?
00:37:06
Speaker
But when you can push through and you know that you can get yourself to push through things and do things there's also a sense of esteem that comes from that like I've got this right I like I don't know how but I'm it's gonna be okay like I'm gonna be able to
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I was just thinking too, is that I think that we typically think of consequences as the negative consequences of things, but there are positive consequences, right? Like setting that deadline is saying, if you don't get a job, I hear this is the negative thing that will happen, but do you ever work on helping clients? But if you do,
00:37:43
Speaker
what the positive consequence will be like, for instance, if you go to the gym, a consequence of going to the gym is lots of good things, right?
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And so do you help them see that this is not all, I don't know, like negative reinforcement, but there's a lot of like positives that, that they're probably not counting on because getting a job is not just checking the box. It's like you said, it's having a sense of independence. It's you meet new people, um, you build your confidence, you have a routine, you have money. Like there's lots of really good things that come with it too, rather than just check. Well, and so one of the things that, um, like,
00:38:23
Speaker
concepts that I like to talk about is instant versus delayed gratification. Now, I would bet I'm not going to call you out, but I know that my phone is within arm's length of me. There you go. And what happens is we're so used to these very quick dopamine hits all the time. And if you're raised that way, where
00:38:51
Speaker
If you want to watch a show, boom, it's there. If you want to see what's next, you swipe up. This idea of delayed gratification, I don't think it's that people aren't capable of it. I just think that we don't practice it. If we can practice the delayed gratification and tying it back into what we were saying, it's like, yeah, it sucks to wake up and get ready to go to work. But if you can hold off, if you can just hang in there for me,
00:39:21
Speaker
just trust me a little bit, and that's why rapport is so important, right? Is just like, like, come on, like, give me a go. Like, let's just try this. We're going to see, and we're going to see where you end up, right? It matters. So, so yeah. So the way that I kind of frame that is delayed versus instant gratification. And also, you know, pointing out that, you know, as like,
00:39:48
Speaker
We don't choose at what period we're brought into the world or what the societal pressures are at that point in time. And so a lot of this is just programming that they have little to do with. And so sort of making that connection oftentimes also helps with this feeling of like, what is wrong with me?
00:40:18
Speaker
why can't I fill in the blank, right? Yeah, and I like that because the answer is it's not that there's anything wrong. There's nothing at your core wrong with you that you're helping to understand. But these are some things that contributed and that there is hope to work through that. And so much of what I love what you're talking about is not
00:40:44
Speaker
not just goal-based, not just, okay, I know that I will be successful when I have a job, when I can pay my own bills, when I get married or whatever the expectations are. What you're talking about is doing this work, you're going to get things like hope, self-esteem, self-confidence, you're going to surprise yourself.
00:41:09
Speaker
with how it feels and what you're capable of. And probably the path that you find that actually works from you is it's okay if it's non-traditional, which I don't know about you, but I ended up having a lot of conversations with a lot of this age group of if it's not working for, if the traditional route is not working for you, maybe it's not that something's wrong with you, but it's maybe it's something wrong with the route. Right, right.
00:41:36
Speaker
And we could really dive into what the traditional routes are and why they are the way that they are and probably make really good arguments for trade schools. There are all sorts of opportunities out there.
00:42:03
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Outside of Session. Remember, while I am a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for individual therapy. The contents of this episode are for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you are having a mental health emergency, please dial 911 for immediate assistance or dial 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.