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Men's Mental Health
40 Plays8 days ago
In this episode, I sit down with men's mental health specialist, Brad Brizendine, to explore the unique challenges men face when it comes to mental health. We discuss societal expectations, the stigma around vulnerability, and how men can start building emotional resilience. Join us as we explore ways to break down barriers and promote healthier conversations around men’s mental well-being.
About Brad:
I'm a Licensed Professional Counselor in Georgia. I provide counseling services in Georgia and coaching services nationwide to men ages 14+. I currently own and operate my own private practice after previously working in a high school setting and at a hospital. Prior to taking a leap of faith to pursue counseling, I practiced law for 5 years. I also played college basketball at the University of Georgia and recently completed my first 70.3 Ironman Triathlon. I bring a broad range of professional and personal experiences to my work and love helping to change the world one client at a time. I'm a voracious reader with a variety of interests but I most enjoy helping others in their time of need. I'd love the opportunity to share my insights with your audience and further educate the public on the benefits of counseling.
https://www.brizendinecounseling.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Season Three and Mental Health Focus
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back to Outside of Session. I'm your host, licensed clinical social worker and therapist BFF, Julie Hilton. Season three is all about navigating life's challenges and finding balance. We're continuing the conversations around mental health and I'm once again joined by expert guests who share their stories and tips and hopes to inspire you on your journey of healing and growth.
00:00:39
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Outside of Session.
Men's Mental Health: Importance and Support
00:00:42
Speaker
This week's episode is super interesting because I sat down with my colleague Brad Brisondyne to talk all things about men's mental health. A lot of my practice is focused on women's issues, but that doesn't mean that I work that i don't work with men.
00:00:59
Speaker
In fact, some of my favorite clients, like long-term clients, are men, but Brad exclusively works with male clients, and he shares so many good thoughts and tips that I'm excited for you guys to hear today. This episode is great to share with the men in your life, or if you are a woman, stay tuned to figure out how you can support the mental health of men in your life. Our husbands, brothers, fathers, and sons deserve to care for their mental health with less stigma.
00:01:26
Speaker
A little bit about Brad, he is a licensed professional counselor here in Georgia and provides counseling services all over Georgia and then coaching services nationwide to men ages 14 and up. He currently owns and operates his own private practice after previously working in a high school setting and also at a hospital.
00:01:45
Speaker
Prior to taking the leap of faith to pursue pursue counseling, he practiced law for five years, which is pretty interesting. He also played college basketball at the University of Georgia and recently completed his first Ironman triathlon, which is pretty impressive. He brings a broad range of professional and personal experiences to his work and loves helping to change the world one client at a time. He's a huge reader with a variety of interests, but he mostly enjoys helping others in their time of need.
00:02:13
Speaker
I will make sure to include all of Brad's information in
Brad Brisondyne's Journey in Men's Mental Health
00:02:16
Speaker
the show notes. So if you want to get in touch with Brad, you'll know how to, but just enjoy today's episode and make sure you share with all the men in your life.
00:02:26
Speaker
Brad, hey, thank you so much for being here today. Hey Julie, good afternoon. It's great to be with you. Yeah, I'm really excited. Brad and I connected. It's been some months now, a few months ago. Um, just networking. We're both kind of in the Atlanta area. And I told him, I said, if I ended up doing a season three, I definitely want you on the show because it's hard to find, um, male therapists who specialize in working with men. I feel like I don't know that I've run across that. So I definitely wanted to have you one to pick your brain. well Well, I appreciate you having me and I'm happy to share.
00:03:01
Speaker
anything that would be of value for your listeners to hear. There there is not many of us, I will say, i've I've tried to connect with other counselors, obviously, in the area as well, both male and female. And um there's a few of us out there ah that only so work with men, but not many. So maybe I do have a little bit of a unique perspective.
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think you will.
Focusing Exclusively on Male Clients: Challenges and Perspectives
00:03:23
Speaker
And you know, before we hit record, Brad and I were just going over, you know, some of our questions that we were going to talk about. And I was going to start by asking something on the lines of what, what is different with working with men? Like what do you see in session that might be ah um unique? And you had a really interesting response for that, that that i I won't share for you. But you had ah an interesting response to that.
00:03:48
Speaker
Sure. it I hesitated for a bit hoping to give some profound answer and then ultimately settled on, i don't I'm not sure what those defenses would be because it has been quite a while that i've since I've worked with female clients. i When I worked at a high school, before starting my private practice, I worked at a high school. And so I worked with both male and female teenagers in that setting. But it's been four years now.
00:04:13
Speaker
that I've been in private practice, and I only work with ah men, teenage guys, and then men 18 and older. um And so I've really, i've in some ways, I i kind of have the forgotten what it's like to work with women, have females come into my office as collateral, both as whether they're a girlfriend, a fiance, or a spouse, and so they'll share background information. So I certainly have um some females and moms sometimes of their teenage boys will come in. So um I still have them in my office sometimes, but they're not the primary client or the presenting client. So in some ways, if there are differences, I've kind of forgotten what they're like. I just kind of have settled into working with men. And so there is a variety of different types of men that come in ah with a variety of backgrounds and um comfort, you know,
00:05:02
Speaker
ah comfort levels, expressing emotions and talking about feelings and resolving conflict and going back to ah process something that could have been difficult to
Common Experiences and Gender Roles in Therapy
00:05:11
Speaker
experience in life. But um I just really know kind of, I've kind of settled into the male perspective a little bit. And so I don't know what the differences would be. And honestly, you you could probably help me. We could compare notes but between our two practices and maybe come up with some of those differences, but I'm not sure where they are.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yeah, that and and I thought that was a good good answer too, because I don't know that we're talking about much differences in because because I mean, like, this is the human experience, right? um And I think that on one hand, there can be a feeling that, um oh, it's got to be so different.
00:05:47
Speaker
And and I do think that they're like if we get into the nuance of things that yeah, there are different pressures in society that we deal with they're different um and all the stuff that I really want to talk about the different stereotypes the different messages that um Men are given in life, especially about talking about their mental health and talking about um Emotions and like processing through things. I think we're given very different messages but at the end of the day. This is the human experience and Um, but you're right. Like I don't, I don't even know how to compare notes because I don't work with very many men at all. I was thinking, um, before we logged on, I was trying to think, and I bet since I started my practice in 2019, so I've had Empower for five years. I bet I can count on two hands, the number of male clients that I've had.
00:06:35
Speaker
And the ones that I do have, they're long-term, and I enjoy working with them so much. And um I love seeing the progress that they made. So I'm not strictly yeah um working with women, I think, the way that you are strictly with men. But um I think women just naturally like gravitate towards me probably because of my marketing and stuff. um But it would be hard for me to know what like the typical guy that you work with, what would be the difference, too?
Men, Vulnerability, and Emotional Expression
00:07:00
Speaker
Sure. And they may, they, if we had, we can't create a hypothetical um situation where they see us both at the same time, I guess we could in theory, but they may even present in my office differently because I am a man. I'm not sure. I do think some of my clients are here because I am a male and they think that we can connect over that. But I've actually had people reach out to me before and and and friends and other folks tell me that they, as a man, they actually prefer working with a female therapist because it it's already tough enough to maybe open up and opening up to a man can be harder in some ways. And and so they actually prefer female therapists. I've heard that before. So, and you know, they they come in and they're obviously here and most of them are here voluntarily. Sometimes I'll get teenagers or um reluctant husbands that are not quite as voluntary. But they're here and you know they're ready to, they they know, i mean they they know what they need. at the Thankfully, the stigma around mental health and emotional health is is reducing year by year. um So that's really positive and there's a lot of really helpful information out there, on obviously on the internet and popular culture. so i mean
00:08:15
Speaker
You'd have to be living under a rock for the last five or ten years to not as a man to not know that the world, thankfully, is becoming much more um ah accepting of of men, coming to terms with their mental, emotional health. And so they're here to to benefit from that. Some of them are very excuse me some of them are very proactive.
00:08:36
Speaker
And they're they're here before any any sort of crisis or ah serious distress, but others you know come in when they're really ready. They're at their wits end and they're like, okay, I've i've tried to white knuckle this by myself. I have some things I ah really need to share. And so we we start we start there. Yeah, I hear you. I wish everybody could come proactively and not wait until they're in that crisis mode because when you think about um when you think about mental health like some of so much of this is is not in response necessary necessarily to something bad happening or to you know a lot of this is like come to to work on your emotional intelligence come to work on your self-awareness
00:09:28
Speaker
um Even if things aren't like terrible in life, you still can learn so much about yourself and realize like, what are some of the things that you're limited on that you don't even really realize that once you work through some of these blocks or face some of those fears, things like that, you realize how much of it's controlling your life, you know.
00:09:47
Speaker
Absolutely.
Proactive Mental Health Practices
00:09:48
Speaker
I think that's why executive coaching and other forms of coaching has become so popular in recent years. And maybe one day that's where I will transition or grat gravitate towards ah because maybe that's keeping people from coming into my office. I mean, right now I'm a a clinical mental health counselor. I'm licensed by the state and I offer HIPAA compliant counseling services. I also offer coaching services and I do have some clients that are both in-state and out-of-state. That's interesting. Folks that are generally healthy, not in crisis, just want to work on their mental and emotional health.
00:10:27
Speaker
You know, there's there's there's some of them out there and I may be losing some of those clients just because i'm I've ah marketed myself as a counselor for the last few years, but maybe I need to expand that and offer the opportunity for more men to come in um just for general, yeah, emotional intelligence, leadership, um you know, making sure that they're keeping their relationships healthy um and they're engaged with any children they have. You know, it's life is hard and there's no playbook. And there's but there's some really great resources out there. Lots of great books and I do a lot of bibliotherapy, which I know you know what that is just essentially book recommendations to clients because they don't have time to read that this is not their profession. I have people that are accountants and, you know, engineers and stuff like that. They don't have time to read 20 books on parenting. or relationships or emotional health and wellness or shame, whatever it could be. So they come in and they almost kind of use me as a resource guide to obviously work with them in session on whatever the presenting issues may be, but also to make appropriate recommendations. So it saves them a ton of time so they don't have to read. They can read two books instead of 20. Yeah, yeah, definitely. um So speaking of like what you're working on in therapy,
00:11:45
Speaker
um
00:11:49
Speaker
trying to figure out how to ask this. Like, what do you see most men present with when they get to a place of saying, um Okay, I'm going to do this,
Societal Pressures Against Men's Mental Health Support
00:11:56
Speaker
especially with your new clients when they first come in, talk to me a little bit about what that's like for them.
00:12:02
Speaker
um especially if there are certain barriers, right? Like it's a barrier to get there because I think, I think again, like when we're talking about gender stereotypes and stuff like that, men are not encouraged to, or previously historically, they have not been encouraged to go talk about things and go work through these things.
00:12:23
Speaker
Yes, I do think that things are starting to change, thankfully. um But there still has to be so many barriers, right? So when people first end up in your office, how do you approach the okay, we're going to be talking about emotions and life experiences here.
00:12:41
Speaker
You know, thankfully, they're already here and most of them, like I said, are voluntary. So they're they are kind of already um waving the white flag for lack of a better term and saying, you know, I i need help. So that obviously that goes a long way toward for those clients and and for the ones that aren't here voluntarily, you know,
00:12:59
Speaker
ah We just make the best use of our time and I try to make it very um comfortable, safe, and I try to be very relatable and approachable. um But ultimately, a lot of men I think struggle, and and I know women do as well, but ah men there's a stereotype that men need to be tough, keep it all together, figure things out, ah men tend to be fixers. And um though those those are gifts in some ways, I mean, there's a time and a place to to figure things out and be a fixer. um But that doesn't serve us well all the time, certainly doesn't serve us well in relationships with our significant others, with our children, and with ourself emotionally. And so there's a time to, come you know,
00:13:45
Speaker
to feel and to be able to articulate and process your feelings ah towards yourself and then towards others. And that's what they essentially figure out that whatever, whatever they've been doing has not been working and or is not sustainable long term and they kind of start to see the cracks. ah and They're not the person they want to be. They're not the the colleague they want to be or the spouse they want to be. And so They just come in and they kind of say, I need some help either dealing with my anxiety or resolving conflict or unresolved grief, past traumas, shame. um And so wherever, whatever story they bring in is where, where we start. um And I do, you know, they, they, they reach out i and I'm sure like all therapists, I do a brief introductory call.
00:14:33
Speaker
um to make sure we'd be a good fit. I then send them an intake questionnaire to get the ball rolling, to give me some helpful background information and and get them thinking about why they're reaching out and what their goals are and what they'd like to talk talk about. So when they come in, we're we're kind of set up and primed, ready to just dive in. And I'm pretty informal. I do know there's some therapists out there that are a bit more structured, maybe a bit more. The first session would look ah maybe like you're going through a questionnaire or something. But I ah try to be very um respectful of my client's time and money and investment in the process. And so I i tend to be pretty informal. I have one or two.
00:15:13
Speaker
three things I share at the beginning, each session, each first session, and then I say, where would you like to start? And sometimes they say, I don't know where, and then I take back over and help them find a good place to start. But, you know, I'm i'm pretty deferential to my clients, and I want them to feel like they are they're here and they're active, and they're kind of leading the process, though, of course, I facilitate and guide anytime they ask me to do that.
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. When you said a minute ago, when you said um that for a lot of men, there's this pressure to be strong, have it all together, that kind of thing. um Like you're, you're supposed to take care of everything, right?
00:15:53
Speaker
I had this thought of how much pressure that has to be from a very young age for big, because when, when I think about like the the messages that were given in life, they're so subtle in the beginning, but they start so young. And I'm thinking about how little boys start get the message of be tough and be the, be the rock, right? You're not allowed to to fall apart. You're supposed to be the one to like get it done and how how that pressure damages sense of self. And how on the flip side, I see women who were never given that specific message, but then they ended up having to be the one to take care of things. And and the kind of like the burden that they bear is that um I thought i I was told that I was going to be able to depend on people and then people ended up not being dependable. And so I had to do it for myself. And I'm just, I'm just thinking about that message of boys get the message that they
00:16:53
Speaker
have to be the one to Like stay strong and do the things and that's a lot of pressure and then girls aren't necessarily given that message But then they ah end up having to be that for themselves yeah And that creates a sense of what
Gender Stereotypes in Therapy Experiences
00:17:08
Speaker
like when you have like women who are hyper independent and are just like I don't know like I'm just thinking about what presents differently in therapy and how That's just a really hard place for both Yeah, so that ah when you said hyper independent, you know, um from a female perspective, I would say that's kind of like the default. Like I said, I think that's almost like the default from the male perspective. Of course, i'm I'm blown away and very pleasantly surprised when some of my clients come in and they are not hyper independent and kind of a guarded and and trying to do everything themselves and figure out life by themselves.
00:17:48
Speaker
ah They're very open with their friends or family and emotionally expressive sets. That's a huge blessing when they're like when they're able to do that. But most I would say most the default for most men that I know either through my work or just through living life is is more the hyper independence.
00:18:05
Speaker
And i don't yeah we culturally, you know it just starts young depending on who your father is and and maybe mother as well. And depending on what little community or culture you grew up in, um there there can be a lot of pressures to um ah have it all together and to to not show weakness or emotional vulnerability. And that carries on.
00:18:29
Speaker
you know until Until men, I think most men at some point in their life figured out, not all, but i I do think most men as you age, you figure out that it's only sustainable for so long and that you're missing a ah real big piece of life by doing it that way. um Some of my toughest clients,
00:18:46
Speaker
I will send them a video of Mike Tyson. who I grew up with Mike in the era of Mike Tyson fighting and he was the baddest, pretty much the baddest dude on the planet knocking people out. But he, man, sad, hard to even, ah I still don't like talking about it, but he lost one of his daughters when she was four years old. And there's a video of him being interviewed about it. And he stops the interview halfway because he's crying and you know calls it off. and um Yeah, he just lets it all out and i I'm sure he had before but um he anytime I have a client who's being really guarded, you know, really um
00:19:25
Speaker
really kind of poo-pooing the idea of expressing emotion and needing to do that. i I'll send them that video or i've I've got a few other videos as well, but send them that and just say, hey, you know, if Mike Tyson or, you know, people like that, you know, that there are just certain things in life and not not just real like terrible tragedies like that. I mean,
00:19:45
Speaker
I mean, even things like losing pets and losing, I don't know, moving can be, you know, moving from your hometown after 30 or 40 years. I mean, that those things can just evoke a lot of emotion. And if you don't acknowledge that part of life, it can really throw you off. Well, and I guess that there's maybe a ah bit of an an assumption on my part that
00:20:10
Speaker
that men come into therapy having like a lot of resistance to that, um to expressing emotions, especially tears and um allowing themselves to be vulnerable. Is that more of like a stereotype or is that real? Like is that? I would say i would say both. um I would say it's um both. I mean, certainly a serious stereotype, but certainly um I am definitely surprised i at some clients when they share a story or they share an experience and it's devoid of emotion. ah that That they're sharing it at all is a positive thing, but that when they share it and they share it, um kind of devoid of the emotion that you would think would be congruent with that. um It's really hard to see that.
00:20:58
Speaker
um so Those clients are obviously fitting that stereotype and and confirming that belief, but not everybody. you know i mean Like I said, everybody's different and some clients come in and they're they're they quite emotionally expressive from the beginning. and um Maybe that's not their issue at all. Maybe they they're very in touch with their emotions and very feel very comfortable with that. It's just they struggle with an an anxiety disorder. and so That's their presenting issue. So yes, it's not the stereotype, but I i guess I just. um
00:21:33
Speaker
um Yeah, and then I'll say so we've talked a lot about emotional um express expressivity, but I do have a lot of guys that reach out because they like my ah ah my background that was not always in counseling because I used to I was a lawyer before I was a counselor and law is very logic based.
00:21:53
Speaker
a lot of reason, a lot of rationality. And so they find that out either through marketing, I guess, or through friends or referral. And they really liked that balance of yeah ah being able to do both, right? Because there's ah there's a stereotype that when you let let your emotions take over, you're just kind of at the whims of these irrational emotions and they'll take you anywhere and you can't trust them sometimes. And and so I think they like that balance. So even if they don't struggle with the emotional repression, they may still be seeking out some balance there. And so, you know, and so yeah, I think that's another thing that men struggle with is, you know, finding that balance of I can lean into my emotions and also yet still feel this sense of groundedness and logic or reasonableness, if that makes sense. Oh, yeah, that makes total sense. And and I was even going to say like the goal of therapy is not to go cry. That's right.
00:22:45
Speaker
physical Although it can be very therapeutic and cathartic to do that if that's but but if that's what you've been and ah kind of suppressing for a while. But yes, that's id I'd tell that to mean a lot when I'm trying to make a case. I would say my my the purpose of this is not to turn you into an emotional basket case. or Oh, absolutely. Try for the sake of crying. That's not it at all. um But that can be very helpful. Unlocking that range of emotions can be helpful to find that appropriate balance.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I like what you said too, because I think that there's a, ah again, a stereotype of women are emotional, men are logical. And that's that's so not true. Like there's there's not an ounce of truth to that. Like women are some of the most logical creatures ever. Just because we're showing emotion doesn't mean that we have that we don't use our logical brain. And I think in our, especially in Western culture, we tend to value logic more over emotion.
00:23:44
Speaker
And emotion is also our intuition, I feel like. And so you can't have a really good gut instincts if you don't have both logic and emotion.
00:23:58
Speaker
um That's right. And that's goodness in ah in any relational work that I do, whether I mean, not often is this significant other here. So they I work with a lot of men who are concurrently in marriage counseling or I'm getting them prepared for i'm kind of softening them softening them up for marriage counseling, or they just had some marriage counseling in the past. And of course, one of the main things that we work on is being right. It's not, the relationship is more important than being right. And so that's an example of,
00:24:28
Speaker
men sometimes get stuck and maybe women as well. But anybody in a and a relationship that can be ah dysfunctional at times, if if you focus on the logic of an argument and you try to win the argument or fix the argument or be right in the argument, you're going to win the logical battle but lose the the full spectrum of the human experience, the the relationship, right? you know And so I have a note in my phone, because I used to struggle with that, but I don't know how old it is now, but when I would used to get in little dust-ups with my now wife, I would i put a note in my phone that says it's more important to be, you don't have you don't always have to be right, relationship is more important than being right. And that just reminds me that you know I could argue my point until I'm blue in the face, but if I lose the other person in the process, like
00:25:16
Speaker
then I'm just alone, ah a winner of a cold argument. Yeah. And I would even argue that what appears on those surfaces being logical is probably motivated by a fear in a lot of way.
00:25:31
Speaker
And, and that's what I really enjoy getting into the, like what motivates us to do what we do. And so if you have this person in front of you that you love and care about, but you're disagreeing on something and you're, you know, that logical brain is saying like, but you're right about this. If there's a battle to, whether or not to kind of like concede and just say pieces more important in the moment, I would, I would argue that there's probably like a fear underneath that, that saying like, no, we can't give this up because what does that mean if we do? It means that we're gonna,
00:26:01
Speaker
we're gonna lose, but what does it mean if we lose, right? Yeah, yeah, that would be yeah, he he's yeah losing is, again, equated sometimes to weakness, you know? no yeah losing Yeah, losing or um losing, you know, not being able to save face or being wrong. I mean, we see that in popular culture and politics as well, like that idea of like, once you um stake out your position, it's really hard to then undo that because it feels like you're dying to a part of yourself or you're having to admit that you were wrong about something, you know, something relatively minor or something
00:26:42
Speaker
really significant, but either way, it feels like a death to self to um to to to hold a position of rightness and to feel justified, whether it's in a fight or in a belief system or whatever it is, and then to have to give that up is is not easy. And we're like, there's a ton of, you know as you know, a lot of books written about that, how hard that is from a psychological perspective to to kind of give up that um sense of a belief for being right. Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:10
Speaker
Um, I feel like this is kind of switching gears a little bit, but I feel like for me ah different themes or trends kind of come through in women's therapy. Um, whether it's, gosh, I don't know. I didn't think this through before I said it. I don't like last summer, everybody was doing soft girl summer. I don't know if you heard about that, but like allowing yourself to be ah not, um, like not always trying to hustle all the time, but like lean into, like almost lean into your softness a little bit that, that you can be, you
00:27:43
Speaker
um Not always trying to keep up with everyone else but just have like a slower pace of life if that's what makes you happier um Like that's just one example um Women really just trying to learn how to like you use their voice in a lot of ways and I feel like those are kind of like trendy things that especially my Younger like Gen Z clients come in with because it's on tik-tok everywhere. um I'm just curious it. Do you ever see things like that? Do you see? ah um And it might not be the exact same, but maybe it's things like,
00:28:15
Speaker
um
00:28:19
Speaker
maybe it's things where a lot of wives and girlfriends are challenging certain things because of their own trends. Right. And so you see an influx of, and you might not have any answer to this. I'm just curious. um Another one I'm thinking right now is that I feel like there's an increase of divorce right now.
00:28:41
Speaker
And I think it's heavily driven by all the conversations that women have started having around the mental load and how they just feel like they're carrying so much in their marriage that um being single actually feels easier, you know? And so I'm wondering if maybe that's getting men through the door um to seek therapy if if their wives are talking about mental load.
00:29:08
Speaker
I have not heard of, was it soft girl summer? Yeah. I have not heard of soft girl summer. um I have maybe seen an uptick in, and not just in my personal practice, which is again is a small setting of of yeah marriages that are either going through a divorce, a current divorce, or are maybe headed that way.
00:29:31
Speaker
and
00:29:34
Speaker
But I don't know if that's enough data to confirm that. An only theme that i um that consistently comes up almost across the board is for men to do a better job of seeking out relational and social support from other men, especially if they're in relationships because, you know, I think men, so one they're kind they're almost like using me, a lot of men will be, can be ah open with their significant other and maybe even open with me because I'm a HIPAA compliant third party safe space. But it's it can be tougher for them to seek that same support from,
00:30:23
Speaker
a friend, a lay counselor, teacher, coach, pastor. um And so I do encourage, I mean, I'm always out my, I'd say it to a lot of, I mean, almost all of my clients that I'm always trying to work myself out of a job once they're healthy.
Social Support and Connections for Men
00:30:37
Speaker
And one of one of the primary ways I do that is through helping them see that there are there is support out there for you if you're willing to,
00:30:47
Speaker
seek it out and be intentional about it. And i I am not uniquely gifted to help you. I mean, I'm trained and competent and I love what I do. And yet there are some great friends and lay counselors out there. Not all of them don't just go share with anybody, but um I've seen the most growth from the guys that I work with when they kind of take that head on and they go,
00:31:09
Speaker
seek it out from you know men's groups, um and they just start sharing more freely. and ah and and And our relationship is a bit like practice almost. Absolutely. They may not have a relationship, so they're not comfortable doing that setting. Or they have a significant other, but she's a female. And so it just feels different for some reason. But just kind of that that bearing of your burdens with another person, and that's not HIPAA compliant and trained is is tough for guys to do and so i I'm always encouraging my clients to do that and that's a big theme and and I've seen ah a ton of fruit from that. the The guys that do that and do that early and often and well tend to get out of here sooner and they they come back in and they say, wow, this has been really, really helpful. That that plus anything else we've been working on. but
00:31:58
Speaker
um Yeah, we we just need each other. And ah men, there's there's a lot of articles written about the loneliness loneliness epidemic for men. yeah And that's that's, and I have some of that on my website, but they attribute a lot of that to the fact that, i we keep talking in gender terms, I was gonna say men don't have a lot of time. Nobody has any time for anything these days, or it seems like if you don't really build in margin in your life, and so that the article would say, you know, men by the time they reach the age of 40 or 50,
00:32:28
Speaker
They have may have a spouse, they may have children, those demand a lot of their time, their career can demand a lot of their time as well. And so any male relationships they have are just kind of like client relationships or networking or their friends in college that lives five states over that they still keep in touch with and talk.
00:32:47
Speaker
to talk about football games with but it's hard to carve out one or two and it could be like a mentor type relationship someone maybe ah a season or two ahead of you or just like a peer where you just want to bury each other's burdens together but I have found that to be that theme you know if I'm looking for one in my practices has been one that's been pretty helpful is trying to address that loneliness epidemic through ah natural social support so they don't have to come see me forever um because I don't have many clients that come see me forever. you know
00:33:18
Speaker
so Yeah, I love that. i I always say the same thing, too, that therapy is a safe practice place for vulnerability, where the the risk is pretty low because we're kind of like vulnerable professionals. You know what I mean? like um I'm not saying that you will always have a good experience with a therapist because I know that's not everybody's experience, but the the risk is lower. um That's where you go to practice vulnerability. but you you don't want to let that be the only place in life that you get to experience. And so once your system has experienced it being safe, and gosh, it feels so good when it finally is. And I can only imagine, especially for men who have carried this belief that, that you're not supposed to be vulnerable. And so maybe they have a spouse, but maybe not even that, where they feel like they can experience that. And then to be able to go and have that with you, it probably is like, Oh,
00:34:12
Speaker
Number one, that wasn't as scary as I thought it was. Number two, it didn't, once I forced myself to do it it it, it actually feels good. It feels good to be seen and heard and understood. And then to, yes, have somebody like you that's also encouraging, like, you'll be met with this same compassion and other situations too. So find, I love mentorship. I love um not just looking for friendships to be peers,
00:34:40
Speaker
Hey everyone, just wanted to take a quick break and say thank you so much for all the love and support you've shown to outside of session. Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss an episode and share with your friends who could use some inspiration. Now back to today's episode.
00:35:02
Speaker
But as far as other trends, um I don't know. I do have a lot of and guys ah that appropriately are trying to adopt healthy um habits like sleep, exercise, yeah some of the tri yoga and meditation, stuff like that, and which I'm always encouraging of. And in yeah I don't want anything I'm about to say to be not encouraging of that. But, you know, men sometimes want to be fixers, right? So they they want to use it not, it's almost, so trying to fix themselves to death, right, you know, and and implement all these different measures and all these different things, almost like a like a rigid formula versus just trying the one or two that is the most beneficial with the margin with the little margin they have in their lives, just trying the one or two ah coping skills or habits that really is going to bring the most kind of sense of rest or um freedom for them. So it it could be journaling, it could be a mindfulness app, it could be sleep or exercise. But I will say a lot of men are very
00:36:01
Speaker
motivated to do something and to to to kind of help facilitate the fixing of themselves, which is a ah really good thing almost all of the time until it isn't, you know, until it can be a ah little rigid. and Yeah. So one thing I wanted to ask was um the majority of my listeners are women. And I'm just thinking about how could What
Supporting Men: Women's Role
00:36:31
Speaker
you want women to know about how they can support their husbands, their sons, their fathers,
00:36:37
Speaker
um even if it's doing things like passing this kind of episode on to them, right, of of things that they've listened to? but But what do you wish more women knew about what's actually effective when you have a ah man in your life who maybe you can see is having some struggles. Maybe, maybe you have um some awareness that they're having some loneliness or they're having a hard time resolving conflict, things like that. And you you want to be supportive, but you also like need them to get help, right? How can we do it in a way that is still holding a lot of compassion? um And what do you think would actually be effective to, to encourage them?
00:37:20
Speaker
That's a great question. um i don't know that i don't know I don't know that I have a great answer to that. i
00:37:33
Speaker
Well, maybe this is a better way to phrase it. of Of the guys that you're working with, do you ever hear things from them of, I wish my wife just could understand or I wish I was able to share this with my wife and I don't feel comfortable right now that maybe if women in general just had kind of a better understanding of what's going on inside of them that they don't feel like they can share with us, it would lead us to better conversations. Yeah. Um, so I guess,
00:38:04
Speaker
I guess then it gets into the idea that if ah if a man is struggling and and their significant other wants to be supportive and helpful, that there are multiple ways to do that. So it it wouldn't always have to be through the man sharing with the significant other, though that would be one very obvious and often helpful.
00:38:25
Speaker
strategy, and but it could be, hey, you know, have you reached out to your um closest friend or your second closest friend or your mentor? Or have you thought about going to see a counselor or, you know, send them a podcast or ah a book recommendation or something to acknowledge that you are um
00:38:45
Speaker
therere Like it's an open invitation, right? Like I am here for you and I want to show this to you very clearly. And yet I also want to be very um respectful. In fact, that like you don't have to share it now and it may not even have to be with me, you know, but because I think, I think that's a stereotype of ah of a female being,
00:39:04
Speaker
nosey or nagging or anything. I really don't honestly don't get that a lot in here, um thankfully. um But it but I'm kind of generally aware of that cultural stereotype. And so to prevent that is just some sense of I'm here for me to kind of ah at whatever pace at whatever. um um yeah However often you feel like you need to kind of check in and say, hey, I'm here for you. I'm always here for you. Just please let me know if you ever want to talk about whatever could be bothering you, and but then saying, but it doesn't have to be me and it doesn't have to be on my timing, but here's all the ways in which I think you could benefit if if it's not me and if it's not now. And that just, yeah, I think that makes them feel like it like the um like the door is always open and yet they don't have to like do it right there in that moment. um I was reading a,
00:39:56
Speaker
um like a clickbaity article the other day on grief. I shouldn't say click it was kind of clickbaity, but it was it was actually kind of helpful. And it was someone who had lost their spouse recently and five things she wished everybody knew and about grieving. And it was good, but it was kind of clickbaity. But the the thing that she, one of the things she said was, and she said something like, um um though Though it's common practice when you lose a loved one, hey, can I just come to your house and hug your neck? Most people think that's very normal, very appropriate. Maybe even other grievers think that's the best way. But this particular griever thought, you know, honestly, I didn't like that because what it does what it did was it made me feel like I had to be with them or sit with them or share whatever they wanted me to share with them on their time, right? Like when they when they have time to stop by and hug my neck, then I've got to kind of be yeah
00:40:55
Speaker
I got to, I got to, I got to do it then perform, share, whatever it is. And so it almost like kind of transfers that um who's deciding when, when the grief is appropriate. And so it's, I guess maybe it's under those um terms that I'm thinking of is like, you know, making sure that you are just offering the opportunity and not having any kind of conditions about when it happens or how it happens, if that makes sense.
00:41:20
Speaker
that makes total sense. And I think that that's a ah hard thing for women, right? um Because if we think we've identified kind of like what the problem is, we, like we can be fixtures too, right? Of like, go get this taken care of. um Don't let it get in the way of your happiness and our happiness. But essentially what you're saying is meet people where they are, which is, you know, very therapist language.
00:41:44
Speaker
um Like, we always talk about that people are going to walk through our door and arrive at very different stages in their growth, whether it's grief or whatever it is. They're going to be in in very different places. And we just have to start with where you are. And I think that that's kind of what you're saying is,
00:42:00
Speaker
um ah As a woman, you might think that you know exactly what they need. They need therapy. They need to repair this relationship. They need to this. And you might be right. There's a good chance you're right. You probably are. probably are but But that's your assessment of this situation. And until somebody can see that for themself, it's going to feel very probably overbearing, probably very um even like scary in a certain way. Because again, if you're
00:42:31
Speaker
I mean, and those things don't feel comfortable talking about things don't feel comfortable. Um, and, and as a wife, you're just like, no, it'll be great. You'll, you'll be able to go get all of this out. Well, getting it out doesn't feel good if you've been conditioned your whole life that you're not supposed to do that. You know? Um, so I think, I think what you're saying is kind of like support doesn't feel like support if it's like forced. Yeah.
00:42:55
Speaker
So let it be known that it's there and that's going to require, of course, some, some patience. Um, but just remember that meeting people where they are is like the foundation of making them feel seen and heard and loved. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
there's ah There's a parenting hack in there as well. It's it's the same thing. that I do see that issue a lot with ah stereotypically moms, but sometimes dads as well, um really concerned about their teenage children or any age children, but primarily teenage children. Knowing that they are struggling, maybe even the child has said, I am struggling. And maybe they've even gotten the um child some therapy. And the mom sometimes is like, I wish they would just open up and talk or share, just let me in.
00:43:42
Speaker
And I just have to sometimes gently remind them that they may come eventually, but the more you ask and prod and cry. sometimes it can cause them to kind of stiff arm a little bit emotionally and relationally. And um so yeah, just that idea of whether you're a parent, whether you're a spouse, or even a therapist, I mean, it applies to therapy in some ways of of only going um as as far and as fast as a client wants to go and is willing and able to go. So yeah, that that kind of idea that you may, you you deaf you probably are right and you you may know exactly what the person needs. yeah
00:44:20
Speaker
that your husband needs, but there's still, you gotta give them the sense of um freedom and autonomy and safety to do it on their own terms when they're ready. And then of course it gets, I mean, you could take that example and say, well, there's times for like interventions, but that would be a more significant matter. Yeah, for sure.
00:44:41
Speaker
Yeah, and and I would also say that, um again, when we're talking about fears motivating things, sometimes that can come from a place of a fear of, oh my gosh, if this doesn't change, what does that mean for me?
00:44:54
Speaker
And so as you're supporting someone else thinking about like, how do you take really good care of yourself in the process? Um, and I liked what you said a minute ago too, that there are, and I wanted to touch on this, there are lots of different ways for men to improve their mental health and work on their mental health other than therapy. So that's just one, one helpful thing and a tool bag of other things. And so can you share a little bit about that maybe of,
00:45:21
Speaker
if if you if If a guy is listening to this, let's say, and maybe therapy is in the future, maybe it's not, I don't know.
Beyond Therapy: Holistic Strategies for Mental Health
00:45:28
Speaker
But if they're not quite ready to take that leap, like what are some of the other things that they can be focusing on until maybe they are ready to go to therapy? um So always I talk to,
00:45:42
Speaker
almost every client about sleep and exercise. um So those are just formative habits yeah that are, you know, people call them keystone habits, people refer them to them as just like kind of essential building blocks of health and well being sleep. There's a lot of books about sleep and how important it is for us. And then exercise as well. I mean, it's it's very well studied that exercise is one of the best things we can do for our you know brain chemistry and and releasing dopamine and things like that. So and that's helpful also if you exercise ah regularly and rigorously that can
00:46:15
Speaker
help you sleep better. And it makes you want to eat better and it makes you not want to drink as much and anything else you may be struggling with. um And then really the holy grail is if you can do that with other people. So if you can exercise at a gym or go on a run or join ah a biking group, ah but if you can exercise with other people consistently,
00:46:36
Speaker
um then that's gonna be really healthy if if you're not already doing that. So a lot of the clients, yeah, like it's a pretty strong protective factor. I have very few clients that are really, really struggling that engage in regular exercise, especially with other people, and then that leads to better kind of sleep and and ah eating habits. you know it's I have a joke, I mean, it's I shouldn't say it because I'm sure it is possible, but that you know i've I've never had a client come in here and tell me,
00:47:05
Speaker
at the beginning during the intake process like yeah and i ask him like how are you doing like tell me about your day and they say well i get up really early at the same time every day and i uh you know i immediately journal and then i go to yoga and then i eat a healthy breakfast and i go meet my friend for coffee and then i get do a work day and i get off and i meet other friends and i um you know abstain from alcohol and and do all these things that like ba and and get a good night's sleep and all that stuff. and But i'm I'm just really anxious and depressed. yeah like it there's are they They are really healthy, protective factors that can be hard to do if you're struggling. So there's the that's kind of the chicken and the egg. if everybody If it was so easy to implement this kind of holistic, really healthy lifestyle, then everybody would do it. So I understand that not everybody can do it because they may not be feeling so great.
00:47:50
Speaker
But exercise and sleep and especially exercising with other people is is really helpful. And for the guys that I see that are doing that, it's ah it's a pretty big protective factor from keeping them from going too low.
00:48:03
Speaker
um And and there's in you can join a gym, but a lot of it is free. I mean, there's a lot of free workout groups that form kind of organically. um You can obviously going on a run with a friend is free. Walking with a friend is free. There's a lot of outdoor exercise um parks and stuff like that. So it's not, I mean, sometimes it can be cost prohibitive, but oftentimes you can you can do it on pretty much any budget.
00:48:27
Speaker
Yeah, use the term protective a couple of times that I really like that because I think that um sometimes when we're struggling, it feels like things are out of control a little bit. um It feels like we can feel a little bit like I don't know how to get on top of this. But when you're talking about building these really good habits that are seemingly seemingly have nothing to do with the like quote unquote problem that's going on. and But it's like, yeah, but you're protecting yourself so that you have um different capacity, you have different um mental clarity. It also helps you to be able to control your emotions. And if that's, you know, one of the things that we're thinking about, like thinking about anger, frustration, things like that, when we're releasing it through exercise, it's going to help us to be able to have more patience. um And so I like that because that's kind of like,
00:49:15
Speaker
looking in another direction of do I have to focus all on the problem that needs to be solved? No, you can be protecting yourselves in a ton of other ways that are going to be ah like such good partners to you on this journey of healing. That's right. and And like I said earlier, I mean, there are, I definitely have clients that are exercising regularly and even with other people and getting good sleep and they're still struggling because they have an anxiety disorder or they've lost a loved one or their relationship.
00:49:44
Speaker
um is in distress. so it's not Again, it's not a cure-all, it's not a magic bullet. Otherwise, if we all just did that, we'd all be fine. um so we but It is very protective. i would say um that i would I would worry more about them if they did not have those yeah healthy habits in place that really keep them Grounded and it just feels really good i mean anybody who's ever exercised before and should know the feeling of once you've done it you know though it's hard in the moment and hard to put the shoes on and and walk out the door and plan it and we have busy lives once you're done with it i mean. We we feel the rush you know and it feels good to accomplish something into.
00:50:22
Speaker
I'm kind of proud of doing it. and i And I have a lot of clients. I mean, that's really another thing that I see a lot is a lot of the guys, even though the highest functioning ah will very much like minimize what they do, you know, and and just say, oh, everybody's doing it. And I'll say no, they're not everybody's is is ah getting a good night's sleep, exercising regularly, connecting with other people, doing journaling, ah mindfulness stuff. ah No, vast majority of people are not doing that. I think personally, um, so don't minimize even a baby step or, you know, if you're only exercising a few times a week, that is much, much better than the average person. Um, they put pressure on themselves to exercise six, seven times a week instead of three or four. And though I guess six or seven would be better, three or four is still really good. So I do see a lot of minimization and blaming and shaming of, um, I could always be doing better. Yeah.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah, I like the idea of approaching mental health from a place of I'm being protective, I'm being proactive.
Increasing Trend of Men Seeking Therapy
00:51:20
Speaker
And then in the areas that I need a professional, I'm going to a professional the same way I would for physical health, you know. And so if you're, if you are running like picking up a podcast like this, or picking up a podcast about men's mental health, so that you can learn a little bit more and get comfortable with the idea of like, Yeah,
00:51:38
Speaker
other guys are doing all of the same things I'm doing as far as like exercising and so I know that that typically is used to minimize like you said but being able to say other men are in therapy too. That's right. Yeah. They are increasingly so I see it all the time I just have one other a guy that I work with with former colleagues, and now we share space together. And every day, men are coming in in it because we we have a very similar practice. And yeah, men are coming in and out of here. And they're um you know as young as 8, 10, 12, 14, and then all the way up to 50, 60, 70, and everywhere in between, and and all different um professions and races. And you know it's awesome to see. um i like I like seeing it every day.
00:52:24
Speaker
You know, as as you were just saying that, I did just think of one thing that I've noticed with my male clients. And that is that they yeah kind of just want me to tell them what to do.
00:52:37
Speaker
way more than my female clients. like Men are just kind of like, here's the problem. What's the solution? i think they yeah I think maybe they're used to the fix it approach. And if they're there, it's because they feel like they don't know how to fix it. So they're kind of finally at a place of saying, OK, I'm going to go to somebody else and get them to fix it for me. And so I have literally had so many of my male clients be like, well, what do I do about it? like They want and what direction. um Is that something that you see a lot? It's just kind of like, give me give me the solution? Of course. They they may not say those words, but they they I can pick up on the implication and the vibe that I'm getting from them, which is I'm taking the time to do this. This is a risk for me. You are the expert. yeah you were You are going to enlighten me and tell me the answer, and you're going to tell it to me relatively quickly so I can get on with my life. and
00:53:32
Speaker
Very rarely does that. Very rarely is that the case and does it work out. So I do a lot of psycho education and trying to help them understand that though I am facilitating, though I am trained, though I will offer things in this room that they may not be able to get outside of it, that ultimately they are the ones that are going to engage in the work that will um make them feel um different,
00:54:08
Speaker
better, healed, yeah changed. um And so it's really up to them, though I play a ah role in that. And so, um no, i'm I'm quick to, out yes, someone asked me that.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah, I guess someone did ask me recently. At the at the end of maybe a fourth or fifth session, we we kind of really came to like a root cause type thing. And he he kind of put me on the spot and said something like, so how are we going to solve this or something? And I was like, you know, and I gave a kind of a long winded response to again, and I don't mean I shoot my clients very, very straight. So my long winded response was not intended to be kind of like a ah smoke and mirrors type thing, but just there is, there's not really like a, an easy answer for to get you from point A to point B that just involves me and explaining something to you. And then we kind of snap my fingers. We go through a little brief structured exercise and then you're better. You know, I i think a lot of men would really appreciate that. I would really appreciate that. Um, for my own concerns in life. Um, yeah, it just doesn't work that way. You know, it's kind of,
00:55:17
Speaker
Uh, it can be gradual and then all of a sudden it can be a criminal. It can be, um, take two steps forward, one step back. It can, you know, it looks, um, different for different people. I have had some clients come in here and, uh, I mean really, really significantly improve and in six sessions and they're, and they're there, they feel like they're in a good place and they're ready to, to on and others not so much.
Brad's Counseling Practice and Focus
00:55:41
Speaker
um So it's it's kind of dependent on the presenting issue um and the client and yeah how willing they are to kind of dive right in.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, before we sign off today, first of all, thank you so much again for not just being here for today, but for the work that you do, because um men deserve so much support and compassion. And I think they find that in a way that you, with you, that feels really comfortable. And I just appreciate that so much. um But tell everyone kind of like where they can find you.
00:56:13
Speaker
Well, thank you very much and thank you for the work that you do. i ah Well, i'll I'll come back to that. um but i ah So, me and my practice, so I work and I see clients in person in in the vining's area.
00:56:28
Speaker
and Monday through Friday. And I work with men that are ages 14 and up all the way up to 60 or 70. And um that's what I do. i I have a website. My last name is Brizendine. It's kind of hard to spell. It'd probably be easier for them to just check the show notes. Yeah. Brizendinecounseling.com. um And of course, I'm available by email or phone. And just reach out if you have any questions. But my specialty, if if I do have a little bit of a niche or specialty would be that um young adult age, which would be 18 to
00:57:00
Speaker
in their 30s and yeah just whatever whatever causes someone to to feel like they could benefit from some counseling and want to reach out. and If it's not a good fit for me for any reason because I don't think I have ah the skill set or the competence to to help a client that way, I i will refer out. i refer out to um very skilled counselors in other areas. And so yeah, I love what I do and um and thank you for having me on this podcast. I said this when we first met that I'm very um encouraged by the work that you do and very envious in some ways because I have not had the courage myself to launch my own podcast. And so ah thank you for putting in the time and effort to organize this, produce this, edit,
00:57:44
Speaker
and put this out there for people to listen to. And I hope many, many people benefit from our time today. But even if just one or two, then that's well worth our time today. And it's just been a real pleasure to have this conversation with you. I appreciate that so much. And that's what we're going to work on next, is getting your podcast going. and We're going to make it happen. I will need a lot of help from other folks that have paved the way. Fred, thank you so much again for being here. And I hope everyone enjoyed this episode. And we will talk to you guys later.
00:58:16
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of outside of session. Remember while I am a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for individual therapy. The contents of this episode are for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you are having a mental health emergency, please dial 911 for immediate assistance or dial 988 for the suicide and crisis lifeline.