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Glick's House of Music: Thistle & Oak
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Tonight on Glick's House of Music, we're sitting down with Thistle & Oak for a conversation about the music,the stories, and the road behind their unique bend of Americana, folk, and alt-rock LIVE right here on The Nonsensical Network Your unofficial backstage pass to real music
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Transcript
The Power of Music
00:00:02
Speaker
Musicians gather spirits
00:00:55
Speaker
Voices rise in sweet decree.
00:01:00
Speaker
Jawless blend of sonic art. Touching souls of brand new.
00:01:27
Speaker
On hallowed ground.
00:01:33
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All things music, a vibrant call for one and all to give their all in this sanctuary where dreams ignite music's power.
Reflections on Love and Resilience
00:02:09
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Music unites on Hello Grown.
00:02:26
Speaker
This house of music, a place to be for every heart, wild and free.
00:02:44
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long.
00:02:59
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I was down to my last cigarette Staying past last call Drinking to regret Nothing works how you want it to Ain't that the heartproof truth?
00:03:14
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Swear I had nothing left You sparked life into a dying heart, dying heart You showed up before was too far gone I'll give this one last shot.
00:03:31
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I'll give it all I got. Cause I got nothing to lose. Look on, ready or not. You look like all I want.
00:03:41
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Seen it all, but this feels new. So I'll go forget my past. I'll give this one last chance. Cause this might, this might, this might last.
00:04:08
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I was down to my very last dime That didn't change your mind Good love is hard to find You gotta lose them Ain't that the truth?
00:04:21
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I had to walk that road They got it led to you I give this one last shot I give it all I got Cause I got nothing to lose
00:04:43
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I won't see it all, but this feels new. So I don't forget my past. I'll give this one last.
Introduction to the Nonsensical Network
00:05:19
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This one last shot, I'll give it all I got, cause I got nothing to lose. Love comes ready or not, you look like all I want.
00:05:32
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Seen it all, but this feels new. So I can't forget my past, I'll give this one last chance, cause this might
00:06:22
Speaker
What's going on everybody? Welcome to the Nonsensical Network. It's your boy Glick and Glicks. How's the music? You're on official backstage pass to all things music.
00:06:33
Speaker
Hopefully y'all are checking us out everywhere. Bio.link slash Nonsensical Network. If you're not already, good and give us a like, share, and a so subscribe.
Meet Paul and Lindsay Ann: Musical Style and Influences
00:06:42
Speaker
We'd greatly appreciate that. Appreciate y'all listening. Appreciate y'all hanging out. Hey Mandy. Hey Daniel. What's going on? See you guys in the chat real quick and early.
00:06:52
Speaker
Ah, enough about us enough about that tonight. We are joined by Paul and Lindsay Ann also known as Thistle and Oak. And I'm going to stop talking and just bring them up because what's going on guys?
00:07:08
Speaker
Hey, um sorry, I had a squirrel moment right in a moment of talking, but it's es so appreciate y'all taking a little bit of time coming in and hanging out.
00:07:20
Speaker
Um, It's a nice change of pace. A lot of my guests lately have been like heavy metal and rock and stuff like that. And you guys just took a few different varieties of some classic music, tossed it in a blender and said, hey, we're going to come out with our alternative Americana style that I'm digging.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah. The other day I was making the post about you guys coming on for the story. And the song was on loop and my girlfriend came back back to the bedroom. She's like,
00:07:51
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You must really love this song.
00:07:55
Speaker
I said, I do. It was one that we started the show out with last. I do really like that song. um And it was just on a loop because I was trying to type it, everything like that. And I'm not quite smart enough to figure out how to pause it or anything like that. This is the last time I want to hear that. think yeah no ah But no, I do appreciate y'all coming on and hanging out.
00:08:18
Speaker
You guys do have a very unique style. And I'm kind of curious. so i want to jump right into that if you don't mind. Where did that come about?
00:08:29
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The style of music? Yeah.
00:08:32
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Well, i think i mean I think it was just a compilation of our backgrounds and like what we, you know, Paul started in a folk band and we weren't trying to go straight folk. Yeah, folk and rock.
00:08:44
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I've been in rock bands. I've been in folk bands.
The Americana Genre
00:08:48
Speaker
The folk band that I was in was called Kodiak. We... we were opening up for some pretty big names like Billy Strings and Head for the Hills and and other things in like a bluegrass kind of genre. But we were more like, you know, folk, but with a little bluegrass.
00:09:07
Speaker
And that was my background. And, you know, you're Yeah, I mean, i i grew up on country and I grew up, Americana is is a newer thing, I think, for both of us. I didn't really know what that genre really meant or encompassed. And I think it kind of puts all of it together. And that is really what, you know, makes us us. But there's still so many people out there that don't know what Americana is.
00:09:32
Speaker
So it's nice to be able to lean on, you know, folk rock alternative to kind of like lead people to what we actually are. It's kind of like melting pot of America, right?
00:09:43
Speaker
Like a melting pot of all the different genres, blues and rock and everything. Yeah. That's how, that's how I've always kind of interpreted it. Uh, you know, that, that style of music is just kind of what makes America, American music, American music. And you just, just, blending just throw it into a blender. And what come out with is usually, cause you guys, and you guys do do a very ah very nice combination of, um,
00:10:11
Speaker
slower songs you know yeah know the sappier songs and some upbeat stuff and whatnot like that so you can definitely hear all the different influences and styles in it um i'm a fan i'm a new fan i just kind of stumbled across you guys as i was uh doom scrolling on instagram like i do most of my guests because that's so the only reason that that i am on instagram thank thank you to the algorithm allowing it to stay only in the music world uh and um basic I think I heard your voice and I was like, Ooh, hold on a second.
Songwriting Collaborations in Nashville
00:10:44
Speaker
Where was that? at Let me go back. And, uh, then I came back and went to your guys' pages and started listening to some of your music and, and was like, Ooh, I, I really like these guys. And, uh,
00:10:55
Speaker
let ah let my girlfriend listen and she's like you should get them on your show and i said i'm already working i love it it's funny because i i look back at some of your your posts as well and brooks herring that you had on a while he we have actually have a co-write with him we love snuffer no i mean um No, yeah. Or wait. No, not love snuck up on me. Love Me Like You Lost Me. Love Me Like You Lost Me. We wrote with him. Yeah. Oh, really?
00:11:27
Speaker
He was ah he was he's a good dude. he was ah He was a fun guest. He was a really cool guy. I'm hoping he'll get up this way. I'm in Ohio. We'll get a chance to see him live. you know Yeah, that would be awesome. he's got a i mean He's great at guitar. He's got a great voice. Great writer.
00:11:43
Speaker
yep We wrote that song with him and Kelly Daniels. Kelly Daniels is another great artist to check out. in Nashville as well. He'd be a riot to on your show, I'm sure. you so he's a big He's a big personality on stage and in person. yeah why We all that song in about minutes. Yeah, it was crazy.
00:12:06
Speaker
We were just at Kelly's house and were like, it's time that we all kind of sat down together and did this and it just came out, you know, as some people are just like, it just kind of came to us and Kelly came to us kind of with like an idea. And then we all just kind of were spitting ideas out and then came the song.
00:12:26
Speaker
It's great. Nice. isn' yeah I like that one. I i was debating, i think I, what what did I pick? Um, obviously it started, um, Last is one of our most popular for sure.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah. I, um, whiskey and wine is one I was debating. Cause I usually pick an opening song and a closing song, but, uh, as I asked you guys backstage and we'll, you know, uh, we'll continue to play your music across the the network. who we do shows seven days a week and we try to integrate music when we can and where we can. So as long as you guys are okay with it, we'll go ahead and continue to get in there. And, um, one of the things that I do here on this show, I need to do it a little bit more often. But in between guests and stuff like that, if I'm having a hard time booking guests, I'll do a show and I'll just play former guest music, especially if new stuff is coming out.
00:13:17
Speaker
Or if there's songs that's older that I personally like, I'll do a show just to play some music from former guests. So um I'm sure there'll be some of your guys' older stuff that pops up on me. Feel free to use it. We're pretty pretty open with stuff like that.
00:13:35
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permission to use our our music.
Moving to Nashville: Challenges and Opportunities
00:13:39
Speaker
Granted. Yes. yeah No, we always make sure we shout out the artists and stuff like that. And, and you know, one of the things that I do when I do these shows is absolutely, I'm sorry if I've been annoying you guys, but I tag the shit out of you. know If I find you on a social media that we're on, I'm following you and I'm tagging you. We it. We're here for it. That's, you know, how we make social media work for the artists, you know?
00:14:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm. uh you guys so down in are you i'm ah sorry are you guys down in the nashville area we are yeah we moved to nashville in 2019. uh we met in chicago that's where i had my folk band and before that had a rock band and I went to school there. She moved from San Diego to Chicago.
00:14:30
Speaker
We met at at a very famous blues bar. um Naturally. Called Kingston Mines. And then we ended up talking about music all night. And it wasn't until probably until we moved down here, though, that we started yeah making music together.
00:14:50
Speaker
Before that, it was just like a shared love of music and she was doing her thing. you know She was in one of the biggest or the biggest country cover band with Kelly Daniels um in Chicago in the like Midwest area called Rockstar Rodeo.
00:15:08
Speaker
And then funny enough, Kelly Daniels, he moved down here to Nashville like I think a year before us. I think it was a year. But it was like, that's not maybe not the reason that we moved out. it was just like a coincidence that, yeah you know, we're kind of, you know, he wanted you to take over the band originally. Yeah. And i was like, no, I love you. But we had a very interesting, you know, like brother, sister, but also like a great dynamic on stage. yeah And so people loved when we were performing together. And once I heard he was leaving, I was like,
00:15:43
Speaker
I don't really know that it's going to be the same. And honestly, these late nights and late weekends and just the schedule and all of it, I was like, you know what, maybe let's just like end on a high note. So I quit the band as well.
00:15:53
Speaker
And then, you know, after we decided, is this a hobby or are we going to actually try to do music? You know, whether it be together or separate, we're like, okay, you know, we wait out all our options, different places to move to out of the country, in the country, all of it.
00:16:10
Speaker
And Nashville just kind of landed for us, especially with the songwriting potential. And that's something both of us really wanted to do. So we moved here. And yeah, Kelly Daniels has just been into it like integrated in the whole journey of being in Nashville, which is kind of crazy. Because you know you meet someone, you're like, wow, we really connect. And we like perform all together. And it's just been a nonstop connection for our music journey, his music journey. It's just been amazing.
00:16:38
Speaker
Great to know someone that well. And co-write. And co-write, yeah. Well, in Nashville, I mean, I'm assuming you guys have been down there long enough. You've partaken in the writer's circles and all that stuff. i mean that one that ah Nashville, shout out to Nashville. You guys have shown me a lot of love. I've had a lot of guests on here from Nashville, and especially in the early days when I was first starting this show. And I will get down there eventually. But that's one thing people always bring up is the writing. and being able to write with people. And you know you get down there and you see people, whether they're performing downtown or and not downtown, you wherever, and in you want the opportunity to write with them. And then you happen it just happens that you do.
00:17:22
Speaker
um And it for you guys, your experience bringing it up with the community down there, overall, how's it been for you guys?
00:17:32
Speaker
it's been It's been good. but There is a little bit of like a clicky sort of dynamic to the, you know, natural music scene of it's kind of like who you know.
00:17:43
Speaker
and I think when we first moved here, we thought it was going to be a little bit easier to just like walk up to people and like, hey, you want to co-write? And and there are a lot of writers. And and now I get it once we're, you know, a couple years in. is like established, you So many people move here every day and you don't know, you know,
00:18:06
Speaker
a lot of the writers are just doing it for the love of the game. i mean, not for the of the game. They're, they're basically not getting paid, you know, right until they write a song that somebody cuts.
00:18:17
Speaker
So they're not interested in just writing with someone that they don't know. Cause that song might not go anywhere and it's just, they wasted an hour of their time. Well, not to mention the connection in a room, you know, so you can't just write with anyone and most people don't want to and they don't want to waste your time. Like you're saying,
00:18:35
Speaker
So they kind of want to have coffee with you or like get to know you or meet you organically through friends and then hang out. and see if they vibe with you in a general sense, not just writing. weird. It's kind of like dating without dating. Yeah. You have to ask people to coffee before you even like- And sometimes it's like, they you know if someone sees you on stage and you sing, if you're like talented and you like put on a good performance and it's a song that you wrote, it's like they saw you from across the room and they're like, hey, can I write with you? yeah like
00:19:11
Speaker
It is very much like dating and and just weirdly and a little bit clicky. Like there's, you know, groups that are like really intertwined and like, you know, hard to get into certain circles. If you don't hang out at Red Door and you don't hang out at some other place.
00:19:28
Speaker
Right. They don't really know you. So they don't know, you know, it's a little weird. So we've, You know, we've taken a we've taken our own path because we're artists as well as writers. That's the other thing that we've learned moving here.
00:19:42
Speaker
We decided, right, we were going to move here and like do our thing. We both wanted to be involved in music, but we didn't know in what capacity. Then we decided to be a duo, right? We named ourselves. We're a duo. We started writing music, yada, yada.
00:19:54
Speaker
Then we realized that it was one of those, a lot of people move here as a songwriter or as an artist. They don't usually do both. Like it's very, it's just rare because you're either writing songs every day, all day and like really trying to like get that hit and get in rooms with co-writers and do the thing, or you're an artist and you're grinding and you're like playing all these shows, you're doing all these things and we're trying to do both.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm not gonna cry. It's an uphill battle. But to do both, to be an artist and you know you write your own things and then we write together and people are like, you know they don't know us as songwriter names, like are our normal names.
00:20:35
Speaker
They know us as Thistle and Oak and they're like, do you only write together? you write separate? It's a whole new world when we moved down that we learned a lot. yeah kind of a Kind of a crash course into it. you know Oh, yeah. and And yeah, like you said, there's so many artists down there, whether like he said whether they're songwriters or they're singers, performers, whatever the case. ah I know talking to some of the other guests. Do you guys have a ah full-time band that performs with you, or do is just you two?
Paul's Health Journey and Musical Resilience
00:21:08
Speaker
or It's just us, for the most part. When we play... ah
00:21:15
Speaker
Well, we did have a kind of full-time band. We were playing... i was gonna let you bring this. ah but We were playing a lot of ah full band shows at Sambuca. yep A lot of covers, but like a full band.
00:21:32
Speaker
um That was what, three years ago? 2024 is when it, ah well, 2023 into 2024, I would say. And I, we were just about to play a show and we did a rehearsal and she went to work and I took the dogs for a walk walk and I had a stroke.
00:21:53
Speaker
well On a walk. At 37. Yeah. like Yeah, which is doctors couldn't tell me why it happened or any underlying issues.
00:22:05
Speaker
They put a little chip in me to, you know, keep track of my heart rate. But I from there, we had like just put out what did we put out one? we had put out one song, I think. Right. Just pretend.
00:22:21
Speaker
Was that the only thing we had put out? Yeah. That's crazy. And then we we were supposed to be in the studio seven days Oh, yeah, for this hill. Yeah. um and then you know i had the stroke i was in the icu for like three or four days um and then i still showed up at the the studio ah like on the seventh day do vocals and i like you know couldn't lift my right arm or my right leg stubborn as a mule um
00:22:53
Speaker
because it's like We can reschedule it. He's going to understand. i think yeah we're in hospital. It's fine. He goes, no, we're showing up. I was like, no, sure. Yeah, we we track this hill, which kind of became more of a.
00:23:11
Speaker
Originally it was about substance abuse and COVID and like getting over the hill of how even people without a substance abuse problem, you know, i you know, sometimes like you were sheltered so much inside that like the little devil inside you became, you know, more prevalent for this.
00:23:32
Speaker
And that's what the song was about. And then it became about, you know, i was doing this walk with my dogs and there's a big hill back towards our house. And that's the stroke happened at the bottom of the hill.
00:23:44
Speaker
And there was this like part of denial in me that was like, there's no way I'm having a stroke. There's something wrong with my leg or my hip. And so I stubbornly trudged all the way up the hill, like dragging one foot behind me and got all the way home.
00:24:00
Speaker
get the on. And then the door. So that, the song, you want to get down? The song kind of became something about that. And since then, we've just been solidly releasing music every six to eight weeks. Keeping the beast, if you will.
00:24:22
Speaker
the yeah no that's that's that's wild to just out of nowhere you know with no you know to go through that and you fortunately and thankfully nothing nothing major and you know yeah it was like ah like a lightning bolt yeah right recovery very blessed I get the stubbornness. you know I'm of a certain age where it took a lot for me to take the day off today. And then even today, my girlfriend was like, just stay on the couch. She works from home. yeah like Just stay on the couch. If you need anything, just let me know. and every time I'd get up, what are you doing? I'm getting a pop. Just let me know. I'm like, no, I'm fine. like i just I get that stubbornness 100%. Yeah, we're both stubborn. so Yeah, and I can appreciate that. you know it's um
00:25:13
Speaker
But no, that's that's that's that's crazy. but um to So you you said something in there, right? The tail end. Every six to eight weeks, you guys are actively putting out new music.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. So the two of you either combined or separately or how you know you guys both work together and work individually are like songwriting machines, I'm assuming. Yeah. We have the blessing of ah a really big backlog of music because, like I said, with that that folk band that I was in and um and just my previous history in music of being in rock band and a folk band and all of the songs that I wrote with those two bands, we never really released at all. um So...
00:26:06
Speaker
sometimes we'll listen to those old songs or send them to our producer um and, you know, be like, what about this song? What about this? Or kind of make them our own. Yeah. And then, you know, kind of mold them into...
00:26:20
Speaker
what we're doing and make it, you know, yeah obviously the song credits and everything are still going to the people that wrote them and the guys that were in the band before are very dear friends. So they are very supportive of us. You know, they've moved on and had families and like done other things and not really musically. So they're all about us using that, you know, those songs and repurposing them. And so that's been helpful as well.
00:26:48
Speaker
Yeah, I would say that definitely makes it nice, especially if they're hey, you know, just throw some credit away. We're good. Yeah. And then also we're always trying to write with new people. So yep um the ones the ones that we really like, you know, make the cut.
00:27:04
Speaker
we're getting We're getting to the point where we're like, all right. Now, it used to be a ah sheet of songs that was like 30 songs. And now we're down to like, you know. We're getting close. Yeah, we're getting to the. We better write more. We need to write. I need to do some actual work now. Uh-huh.
00:27:22
Speaker
Yeah. No, that's awesome. It's like running out of things in the pantry. We got go to the grocery store soon. ah Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
00:27:33
Speaker
Exactly. When you guys are writing, um kind of what's your guys' – do you like to be kind of left to yourselves, to your own devices, or, you know, your writing style? How do how do you guys like to write?
00:27:50
Speaker
I feel like – so Paul went to music school. I started with music school and then changed my major. because theory was not my situation. Not my forte. And I was like, ooh. I loved theory. I hated it. I'm also very bad at math and the half of theory, when you get into the higher levels, it turns into math.
00:28:12
Speaker
This is the long the long answer to your question. But i didn't have as much experience going into writing. And like when we moved here, I felt very vulnerable and didn't really know what to expect. so we would always kind of write together, whether it was just together or us and someone else. um I've done some writing on my own, but I, you know, no one's really ever seen that or heard that. ah I also am not super proficient in an instrument. I've dabbled, but like vocals has always been my thing. So we do tend to write together.
00:28:49
Speaker
i think I would like to try to write, you know, more separately or, separate and then come together. But as of right now, we do most of it together or together with someone else. So we're usually always in the same room, you know, and I think we we bring different things to the table, which is nice. And you'll hear that from people in Nashville in like a writer's room that there's a lyricist of instrumentalist, a vibe guy, a vibe bell a melody guy. you know Everyone kind of has their hat that they wear. And you might be good at multiple things, but there is one that you're like most known for or proficient in And i feel like we bring different things to the table, so it usually ends up working.
00:29:33
Speaker
We're not doing the same thing. I would say you would definitely be melody-driven. I'm usually either writing the guitar part or just like trying to spit out a chorus or the hook. Yeah. Usually for me, i'm I'm a hook guy, you know, that's my bread and butter, but I'll throw some words in on the verse.
00:29:55
Speaker
And yeah, we kind of do both things, but those are the things that we work best at. And I think we, but at least when we co co write with other people, we're at least bringing two different things to the table as being two people at the same thing.
00:30:11
Speaker
yeah So that's helpful. Yeah, no, 100%. What usually comes first for you guys, the music or or the lyrics? Or is it kind of a mixture of both?
00:30:23
Speaker
Depending. It's weird being um um now writing in Nashville because we write with people, our good friend Noah Gibbings and you know even Brooks Herring or Kelly Daniels. I mean, i mean let's kelly daniels I think Kelly Daniels like writes a little bit more like we do or like you do. yeah But some some of the guys that are just like really songwriters are so fast. like they're like okay here you know They do it every day, multiple times a day. So they are just so... Get the get the plane off the tarmac.
00:31:04
Speaker
And I'm used to taking my time with songs and being like, okay, what does this guitar part make me feel? What is it really about? um So it's it's an interesting um change when we're writing with writers in Nashville, where it's like, sometimes I feel like, oh shit, I better say something really quick or the whole song's going be written. It does feel like that sometimes because they're just, it's like fire. It's coming out. Yeah, and I'm used to just, like, being, you know, chilling in this room here, like, playing, okay, maybe maybe this is, okay, no, I got to, like, kind of a melody, and what does this make me feel, and, like, a couple words here and there, and... No. They got, like, a whole, like, verse before. I'm, like...
00:31:53
Speaker
What just happened? What's this song about? I imagine it's because it's a little bit competitive and it's gotta be competitive in the writer field. Gotta be quick. they're They're very fast and I think just just learning that and knowing what I'm good at, I'm like, okay, well,
00:32:11
Speaker
I'm going to start thinking about the hook right now while you guys are working on the verse. and Jump in on that. oh yeah It's kind of like the old tale of John Henry versus machine. You being John Henry and those writers are the machine and you're just trying to prove like, hey, I can still do this. Yeah. Just slowly, just a little bit slower. We don't have to it done in 45 minutes. have a full
00:32:42
Speaker
Or even two hours. My goodness. yeah we When we write with each other, we just, you know, try not to put too much pressure on ourselves and then kind of, you know, where usually starts with an idea.
00:32:54
Speaker
And then Paul will just kind of start with a guitar part or whatever comes to mind. And then i'm like, Ooh, I like that, you know, that part of it. And then, but usually I feel like the music comes first before the lyrics do.
00:33:09
Speaker
Usually, or kind of like simultaneously. It's like, yeah we have an idea for a song. We know the vibe we're going for. You play major or minor versus, or based off of the tone of the song, right? Is it going to be happy? Is it going to be sad?
00:33:23
Speaker
you know, what what kind of vibe are we going There is every so often though some some songs we've gone into a song right with where, I don't know, like I have weird ideas like if I'm in the shower or like our Peloton that's over here, like when I'm biking and those moments where I'm like, I want to quit and like I tune out whatever's going on on the bike and I'm like in my head, um something comes to me.
00:33:47
Speaker
So I have these like, You know, those those are the ones that are like lightning bolt songs, I feel like. yeahp They're just like a gift from the Muse or whatever you want to call it. sure right? Yeah. We're just like Closer to the Edge is one of our songs where um my head is off my shoulders now.
00:34:07
Speaker
You know, like that whole chorus line came to me while I was just like, about to die on the bike. thanks yeah Like, I don't know why, but it just, it did. And then when I walked into the right, I'm like, okay, I have an idea.
00:34:25
Speaker
Let's write it around this. Well, and I feel like I've learned so much too, where, you know, I used to have ideas and you're like, I'm going to remember that. And then you don't. So you have to instantly write them down. And I have a whole note in my phone of it's called the write about. Yeah. And you know, you just gotta write, sometimes you gotta write yourself notes so you remember why you thought what you thought. Sometimes you just write four words and you're like, I don't know why I wrote I mean, and that's thinking like a writer when we,
00:34:54
Speaker
when you saw Jeffrey Steele, he was talking about that too. Like some of his famous songs where he just like heard, overheard it. Someone someone said something like while he was taking a break at the studio to go get a coffee and he overheard someone at a table say something. He's like, that's the that's the song. That's the song. yeah you You know, you have an open mind to it.
00:35:22
Speaker
it's It's wild how that happens sometimes. um Former guests and very good friends of of of mine, of the network as well, they told us one time they were at a Mexican restaurant having dinner and a song popped into their head and he literally wrote it in less than five minutes on a napkin in a Mexican restaurant. And it's one of the more popular songs, one of their bigger songs and one that we use around here quite a bit um just because it's one of those feel good songs. And it didn just hit them like that.
00:35:51
Speaker
When you guys do write together, cause it's do you guys write more from like personal experiences or life in general? Or is it just, you know?
00:36:02
Speaker
Well, Whiskey and Wine is good a good example. like I wrote that at one point like in my my single days and like dating. and like Wait, you dated people before me?
00:36:16
Speaker
Oh, no. No. um No, but he was single and tried to, but, you know, he didn't until he met.
00:36:28
Speaker
It was a it was a a moment of, like, confusion of, like, I don't know what this girl wants. And she doesn't. She obviously is in maybe in the same situation as me.
00:36:41
Speaker
You know, and and then I sat down at the table and like, I just came up with the whiskey and wine and I came up with the first verse, but I sat on that song for maybe six, seven years.
00:36:53
Speaker
That's all I had. It was just like, I'll go, you know, I'll go back to my whiskey. You'll go back to your wine. And she had heard me playing it one day. in our like little whatever you want to call music studio or a little music space. And she was like, what's that? I like that.
00:37:10
Speaker
And was like, oh, it's just like a song. You know, I had an idea for a while back and she's like, can we write that? but i was like, yeah, let's do it. Like, can you maybe write the other part, like the female perspective? And that's how it happened. um And we've, we you know, we've had a couple of songs like that that are just like,
00:37:32
Speaker
you know, this hill, like I had the hook, didn't really have the verses. Um, and we kind of just went back and forth on it.
00:37:42
Speaker
Um, and I mean, not even really the hook, just the melody to the hook. Yeah. Yeah. And just kind of put it on the, um, not the axle, the angle. I was going to say the chopping block. I was like, I don't know what you're trying to say. It often feels like a blacksmith though. Like, yeah your foods in the phone jail you know, you just have a hunk of metal.
00:38:06
Speaker
You're molding it into something. You see the potential, but you don't know what's going to happen with it. And it could be all fucked up and you might have to throw it out. But or sometimes you think it's one shape and it turns into something completely different.
00:38:21
Speaker
Whoa. What? Yeah. i totally I totally understand that. I get that from ah you know doing podcasts and doing these different shows. I've had shows that just completely ate shit, and I've um've done the the compassionate thing and put them out of their misery. This show originally was me playing music, and I had to find a loophole around. I was playing radio DJ-type deal, and I had to find a loophole around the copyrights, so I was playing cover songs, and I'm like, I'm playing these cover songs. there all these great
00:38:53
Speaker
really great musicians that nobody knows. Why don't I start reaching out and seeing if maybe I can get them to come on? And one idea turned into a totally different idea for this this show in particular. So i can play definitely get what you're saying with with this with the songs and the music. You are, you in your head, you have one vision. But once it starts to come out, it's like, well, this is actually working a lot better. It sounded a lot better. That's kind of a the beautiful thing about it and what I feel like makes it art, right?
00:39:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm. you know I got my my lovely girlfriend slash producer in the background getting your guys' to social media out there. Thank you, Yes, thank you.
00:39:36
Speaker
Also, Pierce had asked who are some of our favorite music artists. Yeah, he that's one of his favorite questions to ask. every we had We have so many. Pierce, are you ready? ah You're going to be here for like 30 hours. My original like when I was growing up, I loved hard rock and I loved like metal at the time when it was just become like my understanding of metal, like Metallica, Black Sabbath, Dio, stuff like that, like original kind of like where metal started, but I didn't really like follow through on that path. And i quickly turned off of that to like grunge in the nineties and like Nirvana and, um, uh,
00:40:25
Speaker
that whole era was just things that I loved. yeah um Smashing Pumpkins and and you know those bands. thought you were about to say Smash Ralph and I was like, what? Well, Smash Ralph, I mean, is iconic.
00:40:38
Speaker
It is iconic. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, hey, now, you're- Who was it, unfortunately? Good for them. good for that It's not really someone I put on a pedestal. Definitely wasn't rushing out to get the Smash Mouth album by Nomi. Yeah. No.
00:40:57
Speaker
no And then I had like a hippie era, you know, where I was into yeah drettes rusted root and I would go follow around like fish and Grateful Dead and all that. So, I mean, I think that's why our music, I don't know if it's eclectic, but it like has so many influence influences. And the funny thing is, is the one thing I was never influenced by, I don't think,
00:41:24
Speaker
was country music. and i ever i never i never really heard it. I never really liked it. And I was a person who was like, country music sucks.
00:41:34
Speaker
double che But that was that was before I knew some of the, it was more that I hated mainstream country. i was in yeah But like Johnny Cash and like all the roots of country music I really loved. And Gillian Welsh and, you know,
00:41:53
Speaker
just these people that were making really heartfelt songs and ballads. And then, you know, that's where my music journey went into and listening to singer songwriters and Irish artists and, you know, Ryan Adams, Ryan Adams is a huge, huge influence on me. Like that was later on when I had already,
00:42:17
Speaker
like gotten through my juvenile listening to someone I really, really like and identified with the the style of writing and Damien Rice,
00:42:31
Speaker
um Glenn Hansard, those are two Irish artists, but um Paulo Nuttini and all that. And then yours were all i mean country. I grew up, I mean, yes and no. So even crazier, i mean, I grew up in San Diego, like he said.
00:42:52
Speaker
I grew up going to outdoor country, like, you know, ah country concerts. i would see Rascal Flatts. I'd see Keith Urban. I would see, but then, you know, of course, my younger years, I'm listening to Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls.
00:43:06
Speaker
You know, all the things that a teenager is listening to, but I'm also listening to like Nirvana and I'm listening So my range also, if you found my iPad or my iPad, my iPod, my very thick, heavy the iPod when they first made them, ah it has all of those things. It goes from Celine Dion to Nirvana to probably some Metallica. I mean, it was all over the place, right?
00:43:33
Speaker
And I always came from a singing background. So Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, you know, anyone that had those like huge pipes that was just bashing it out of the park. Whitney Houston. For a singer. Yeah. Whitney Houston, like those were my icons for singing.
00:43:52
Speaker
And I was classically trained, you know, I was doing classical music from a very young age. I was doing voice lessons from a very young age. Choir, show choir, all you know all of those things, which he didn't start music until probably what, like 14?
00:44:08
Speaker
fourteen Well, it's funny too, because I was influenced by like early punk and stuff like that, where I was like, I don't need to be in tune when I'm singing. It's about the food. It's emotion, and you know and And now it's like- And I'm this classical, like, I have to be in tune. I have to be in pitch. i have to be it. It's funny because on it we get opposite notes when we're in the booth in the studio. It's like the vocal person who's recording us will be like, okay. You're telling okay Your tone's great. like You're really feeling it, but it's a little pitchy.
00:44:40
Speaker
Can you just tune it up? I'm like, no, I'm feeling it. and Hers is like, okay, you're perfectly in pitch, but I need you to feel it a little bit more. yeah yeah like From young age, I remember my mom being like, you're not feeling it. I go, I don't know what you mean. yeah I'm like, I sound just like them. She's like, that's not the point.
00:44:59
Speaker
I'm like, but isn't it? like that was my whole thing i was like but i sound like her it's fine she was like yeah no you have no emotion no feeling behind it so it was just like all instruction for me all feeling for him and i do feel like it's been a good balance because we both yeah you guys are yeah the end of your yang you know you guys you what you know what you lack in he picks up where you where you he he likes you pick up and you guys mesh and, you know, meld together perfectly. I like that. I mean, music does have to, you got to feel it. I agree 100%. You know, if you got to feel it. I mean, i'm again, I'm not a musician. I'm just, I'm just a fan.
00:45:41
Speaker
ah You know, what but you because then you can, you can feel it when someone else is feeling it. yeah sure And that, that's what makes you feel it as a fan so much more is when you can tell, that they're not just like a robot singing the song, right? You can like feel the emotion that they're making through the song.
00:45:58
Speaker
I bring up a lot, you know, and and I want to talk to you guys a little bit about this too, but I bring this up a lot. You know, when people come to see you, they know the music.
00:46:09
Speaker
they they've They've listened to music. We love the music. That's why we're here. But a lot of times, you know, what you do on stage makes that that experience even better. I'm old. Years and years and years ago, um ah went and seen Family Values tour, Korn and Limp Bizkit and all that. you know Again, I'm old. It was like their first run or their first year.
00:46:35
Speaker
And Stane was there, and I was excited because I liked Stane. But Aaron Lewis was in a bad place mentally and whatnot. So when he came up to perform, he got on the mic and you know sang every single song like this. And he didn't really do anything. and then they just walked off stage. Well, fast forward 27 years later, um I get the opportunity to go louder than life in Kentucky. And they're there. And I'm like, hell yeah.
00:47:00
Speaker
Still a fan of Aaron Lewis. Now I know a little bit of what was going on in his life back then from his country album he put out. Totally different performance. Blew me away. I was like, hell yeah, that's what I wanted to see when I was in my early 20s.
00:47:16
Speaker
But, you know, and and and and you realize that looking around the the audience, just that energy just brought everybody down. We'd all been riding a high all day long. And then that energy and that one performance just killed the mood for everybody. But For you guys personally, what is your what is your stage presence like? What do you kind of performance would people who have never seen you guys expect to see?
00:47:44
Speaker
I think it depends on the show that we're doing personally. I mean, if it's like a full band show, you know we've we've done certain ones and I think we try to keep the energy high, but also some of our music isn't very, you know, like go, go, go high energy.
00:47:59
Speaker
Some of it is moody and some of it has, you know, a lot of meaning, but I think, staying true to yourself on stage is very important and staying, you know, true to the story and true to like why you wrote the song. And that's the whole thing in Nashville. A lot of people love to hear the story behind it. I think giving a little bit of context without like boring people of a whole like story, you know, you're not trying to,
00:48:24
Speaker
spend 30 minutes on the mic talking about the song, but giving a little context and then pouring your heart out on stage I think the most true thing that you can do as a musician to like really give everyone the feeling of, you know, where the songs come from and why you're doing it. But I mean, I would we put on a fun show, you know, we're not trying to like bring the room down, but there are certain songs where we're telling Paul's story of having a stroke at 37. And everyone's like, what? You know, you're just like, you're shocking everyone. That's a closing song. Yeah. my God. Yeah. Even the sappy songs, like you said, performed right.
00:49:08
Speaker
and And I was a big fan of like MTV's Unplugged and I think CMT did storytellers. I love acoustic sets. When an artist, you when you can strip an artist down to just an acoustic guitar and, you know, and then they come out and they'll tell a little story about, I love that stuff. Again, maybe I'm old, but I don't know. I love that. You know, if there's a story behind the song.
00:49:29
Speaker
I want to know it. Yeah. I'm a nerd. I'm such a nerd when it comes to music. Closer to the music. The MTV Unplugged with Kurt Cobain is like one of my favorites of all time. so Hearing those songs, like not as thrashy and grunge and just yeah like acoustic. And ah she's a a real performer. I'm, I, in my heart, am an emo person.
00:49:54
Speaker
little, you know, an emo boy. So like, if I can sing every song like this, and be like, ah you know, just like, just in the mic. But i try i try to open myself up to it and like, you know, perform. And once I'm once i'm in it, like.
00:50:13
Speaker
It's usually, yeah. Once I'm in it, I'm in it. And then it's it's good. But like, that's that's what I grew up with. And that's what I like kind of watched on TV and was like, man their emotion is so raw.
00:50:26
Speaker
Like what they're feeling is so raw. Like i want to do that. And that's how i would write songs and that's how I would do everything. And then on stage, that's not necessarily what people want the whole time. Like you can do one song like that. Well, sometimes I feel like you're a clam that opened their shell and you were like, wait, I'm on stage. yes Like, no. You know, i even in personality, she's extroverted. I'm introverted. true So it's it's it's kind of that same way. i have to still the i had to i have to pretend enough on stage that I can get into it and feel comfortable.
00:51:06
Speaker
and for her she's just like swimming out there like all right let's go let's do it let's and i'm like hi me well it's funny too because sometimes it'll be like do you want to talk about the song or am i going to talk about the song and you know everyone can see you you're on stage so like he's like uh i don't uh i don't know do you want i'm like okay i'm going to talk about it but Because we don't want have, you know, we need to like plan these things ahead and be like, you're going to talk about this song. I'm going to talk about this song.
00:51:37
Speaker
and But even at a writer's run, you know, sometimes we just try to keep it organic. And yes, clearly I'm the one who likes to talk. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going tell you, I'm going tell you all the things. I'm going tell you all the feelings.
00:51:52
Speaker
ah Yeah, like you said, again, it's that yin and yang, man. You guys are polar opposites, but but it it it meshes you guys come together as one, and it's like a perfect combination um you know across the board, it sounds that sounds like.
00:52:08
Speaker
That works well. Yeah. No, I get that. i'm I'm like that. I'm more of the outgoing. It drives my girlfriend crazy because... Everywhere we go, i meet I make a new friend. That's me. I'm like a friend in the USPS line. I'm trying to mail something. yeah it wouldn't really We're at Walmart. and I'm just talking to a complete stranger. and She's like, you know them? No. Why are you talking to them? I don't know. They're coming over later for dinner. Is that okay?
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah, she's she just wants to get out. She's annoyed by every other living. And ah and I'm like, hey, how you doing? Hey, what's up? Oh, what are you buying? instead She's like, that's one thing I never have to be ah afraid of. If we go, you know, meeting family or new friends or whatever. She's like, you're fine. i don't have to worry about you. yeah, no.
00:53:05
Speaker
i could yeah I could be left to my own devices. Yeah. 17 new friends by the end. Yep. I'll be desperate for the cousin Paul didn't even know he had.
00:53:19
Speaker
wow. Like, you've talked to them for longer than I have my whole life. Just in this apartment. Moment, yeah.
00:53:31
Speaker
Yeah. with yes she said She said, that's too much. That's too much. I mean, sometimes too many people. so Yeah. so but i mean you know doing what you guys do, sometimes you've got to have that that personality. and you know For Paul, he can hide behind you and let you do all the peopling and he can go, okay, when you're done, we can leave. yeah I'm just like, I need to drag you along because you're the other half of this party. Introduce yourself. I'll do all the talking, but you have to be the oak portion of this. I'll stand in the corner like the oak.
00:54:13
Speaker
It's like a... the second A solemn oak tree in the corner. exactly now that's That's great.
00:54:23
Speaker
but see This is what I love. You get to kind of chat with you guys on this show with my guests and all openly and get to know more about you as people, not just as as artists and musicians.
00:54:36
Speaker
ah Thistle and Oak, where did that come from for you guys as as ah as ah as a name? We had so, and not to bring up my previous band again, but that's where it started, was we had a ah long list where we just... it was a it was a folk trio.
00:54:58
Speaker
So we, you know, one night or something, we we wrote down like every name that just... Fast fire to the top of our heads.
00:55:08
Speaker
And a lot of them were just nonsense. My personal favorite still still is you're a wizard, Harry. yeah You know, that and and that ended up coming up with Kodiak that we liked the most.
00:55:24
Speaker
um And so I had that list and I was like, well, let's do something similar. We were we werere on a road trip. And I think, was it our road trip down to Nashville and then back? or To Chicago. We were going up for something. i remember specifically.
00:55:37
Speaker
Going to Chicago? Uh-huh. I promise. From Nashville? Yep. Oh. Either way, um we decided to just write down, you know, on the road trip, eight hours, just, like, looking out the window, thinking of things.
00:55:52
Speaker
And we wanted it to be, like, this and that. Something something in the realm of, like two things or the whatever. And we wrote probably 150 different names.
00:56:08
Speaker
So many random names. Eventually, we we just like scan through that. And we were like, OK, these five names yeah we like. um and The deep blue or something like that, one of your favorite. The deep blue or I don't know, the deep something.
00:56:28
Speaker
I'm pretty sure we still have the list. It'd be funny to look back at i do have it somewhere. It's on a torn like piece of paper. It can naturally hopefully someday go up in a glass case and be worth something.
00:56:44
Speaker
One day at the Hard Rock or something. yeah it's In a museum somewhere. yeah yeah but We just saw Thistle and Oak and that just felt the one. and I think it came from...
00:56:56
Speaker
we like in nashville area a lot of thistles grow wild and there are these ah beautiful purple flowers all along the highway um and also when i was growing up one of my dad's favorite movies and then like kind of became mine and my sister's favorite movies was Braveheart, where he like puts the thistle in the page, the beginning of the movie.
00:57:26
Speaker
And then later on he shows her like, Hey, I saved, I saved this thistle from when you gave me when we were children. Um, so it kind of had that meaning as well.
00:57:37
Speaker
Um, and then, You know, oak trees grow everywhere. And as a child, I loved climbing trees behind our house. We had like this dog run.
00:57:52
Speaker
And behind that was like, I don't know how many, I'm not good with like land measurements, but it was like, you know, it was like one of those areas. i grew up in Rockford. So there was this like big, it wasn't like a forest per se, but it was like this area between a lot of houses on one street.
00:58:11
Speaker
And then the other street was so far away that there was this like, and we were in a cul-de-sac that there was like almost, it felt like a forest as a kid. I'm sure now I would go there and be like, this isn't, you know, is like between houses. But like, to me, it felt so secluded. And so, you know, that was my space. I'd go out there with like my action figures and, know,
00:58:36
Speaker
and like go up into the trees and set them up and whatever. And that was, you know, a lot of that was oak trees. Yeah. and So. I think a lot of bands too that we love are like duos that we love, like civil civil Civil Wars and Shovels and Rope. And, you know, there was definitely that in the background of my mind that I was like, I like these, but I don't want to copy them specifically.
00:59:03
Speaker
No. And it was like, How do we come up with our own version of these things that we like? And I think it was just a compilation of all those things. And to be honest, to this day, we get a lot of compliments on our name. And I'm like, it's like a reassurance that we did the right thing. If this doesn't work out, we're going back to your wizard.
00:59:24
Speaker
yeah you If you ever hear that name. That's going to be my DJ set. Oh, my God. It just sounds like ah like ah like a like a punk kind of like a late 90s, mid, and early 2000s punk band. you know They would have fit right in there with like Sum 41. Yeah. but That's side our project. It does have a, it's one of the, it's ah it's a cool sounding name.
00:59:51
Speaker
And it's it's one of the, once you hear it, it's like, you can't, and not in a bad way, you can't unhear it. It's one of those like, you know, it it goes together real well and it is you guys being a duo,
01:00:04
Speaker
like I said, it's it's just one of those perfect sounding names. And you know to know what an oak tree is, know what thistle is, and you know to listen to your guys' is music, you guys have that that really, really pretty sound, but also kind of strong like an oak tree in your writing and in the songs that you sing. you know They have meaning and stuff to them. So it goes, it meshes well.
01:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, thank So, hey, you know, the universe works in strange ways. so It's even funnier to, you know, have the name before anything really, like, happens. You're to start calling yourself this thing, you know? and like It's like, you asked game my mom always said, you got to be careful what you name your dogs, because we had ah a dog as a kid that was named Rascal, and he...
01:00:52
Speaker
you know Was a rascal. Yep. 100%. No, I mean, it's, it's um you know, trying to come up with that name. is Sometimes a name can make or break a man.
01:01:07
Speaker
I mean, at the end of the day. Besides who did that? Obviously. Whoever that. I mean, Yeah. iconic the fact that they were as big as they were to be honest that's crazy i'm here for it yeah here no no i don't no one knows what it means or at least i don't but no neither i'm always down for some nonsense right well i i and you know my my poor girlfriend like you said you guys had the name before you were
01:01:44
Speaker
you're doing anything else but kind of having that name locks you in you you have to you have to do it because that's my crazy adh brain i think like that all the time i come up with a new idea for a show and i have everything planned out name time you know logo intro it but then i don't have any there's no mapping on how i'm gonna do this show or how the show's gonna go and then it's like oh, shit, I kind of locked myself in. Now I got it, which is what you guys did. And that's ah that's a good thing. That's a good thing because here you are. you you know You're doing the music. You're making good music. You guys are hopefully having fun and enjoying it.
01:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good time. It's a grind, but no we chose this path. where would Where would you guys like to see yourself in and like the next five years or so?
01:02:38
Speaker
oh I mean, the ultimate goal. The Grammys? Yeah, right. nice that's ah That's a really, really big goal. You gotta shoot for the stars. Yeah, that's true.
01:02:51
Speaker
He's not wrong. The ultimate goal would be just like only doing music. you know like We moved here for this. We both have jobs that you know allow us to do music, which is great, but not to the full extent that we I think we would like to do. and i would love to just be performing and be making a living, enough of a living off of music to have it be sustainable and to only be doing music, which would be great.
01:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, the transition to full-time, which unfortunately is just, you know, seems to be getting harder and harder for independent music. that Yeah, it's, you know, you it's almost like you you you have to take the risk to go, all right, I'm dedicating myself to this full-time and not, you know, doing your...
01:03:43
Speaker
nine to five schedule, so to say, and take that risk to see if it pans out or, you know, treads along and hopefully kind of hit that point where you start to break even, where it's like, all right, we can finally maybe do part-time instead of full-time and dedicate more time to to the craft. Do you guys want to do like big big tours, big shows or anything like that?
01:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, that'd be great. We did, we did, Before, did we not have any music out at that point? i don't think so. Maybe like two songs. Yeah, We got a little ahead of ourselves.
01:04:24
Speaker
We quit our jobs and tried to do music full time. 2022. This was before the stroke. Yeah, 2022. were just... Who are we watching
01:04:31
Speaker
um we were just what who are we watching on St. Vincent. She was doing like st omo a TED talk or masterclass. And she was like, Hey, if you want to get hit by the train, you got lay on the tracks. And we're like, all right, let's quit our job. Yes.
01:04:48
Speaker
And then we were broke in about six months. night okay We got to go back to our jobs. um But, you know, I think we learned a lot from that is like,
01:05:02
Speaker
you need to at least have a little bit of a base of of a, of an audience. Like there needs to be people who are like, want to want to listen to your music.
01:05:16
Speaker
And then we realize, you know, maybe we keep our jobs and we use that to fund kind of doing some marketing and, and get more release music and see what happens and try to get yeah like you're saying to a jumping off point where,
01:05:33
Speaker
some people, when we go to every town, may have heard of us. yeah yeah um Or at least you get enough in one place that maybe could spread the word. Or you only go there. Or you only go there in like one other spot. you know We don't have to have 17 places on our tour list. It could be like three to start. And like do that. And build a following that way. and you know it was like we jumped off a cliff with no water. If Taylor Swift needs an opener, it's not worth we're cool with that
01:06:04
Speaker
yeah Well, ah you know, you never know who's listening to these shows. Right? Call us. down I mean, ah you know, her soon-to-be husband's from right up the road from from where I'm at. You know, maybe. I love this connection. Yes.
01:06:26
Speaker
Maybe I could put in a good word with his with his big brother. Right? yeah Wait, where in Ohio are you guys? ah We're in central Ohio. We're down by Columbus. yeah you're of I have family in Columbus. oh no yeah I spent many of my childhood summers in Cleveland.
01:06:45
Speaker
Sorry to hear that. yeah yeah It's better than Cincinnati. I do love Cleveland. cleveland I have some ah some very fond memories of going up to Cleveland and when I was a i was young, but a little bit older, we used to party up there a lot. We'd go up to the flats and stuff like that. We'd do some partying up there in Cleveland. But um but my girlfriend said, yeah, you guys should come to do some shows in Ohio.
01:07:12
Speaker
i mean we Honestly. We get a lot of Ohio's coming through on comments. we could you know It's startingre starting to expand, getting a little traction. We're trying to learn the social media game. and you know It's all it's all a learning process.
01:07:28
Speaker
yeah You got to be an influencer now to be a musician. It it is what it is. You got to be an influencer to do anything at all. if you know it Any kind of entertainment. On the other end of the spectrum, though, before social media was a thing,
01:07:46
Speaker
you know there was no way for a band to just post something and get it in front of 500 people yeah true so true in a way it's a superpower even though it's annoying it's like i post you know a video of me pouring coffee and singing to one of my songs and 500 people sing it or see it yeah yeah maybe only 10 people like it but like There's no way I could have done that in the 90s. Yeah. yeah and and and And the nice thing about that is, you know, 500 people see it.
01:08:17
Speaker
Only 10 people, maybe maybe only 10 people like it. But those 10 people tell 10 of their friends. And maybe only three of their friends like it. But then that that that continues and that trickle down effect kind of, you know, and then, you know, hey, 500 views translates somehow magically in the social media algorithm into, you 2000 new followers in ah you know in a few days or whatever the case may be. ah that it's it's an I call it a necessary evil.
01:08:47
Speaker
Social media. ari I hate it, but So do we. This is where we are. I, you know, I had to take advantage of it. i've I've even resorted to just to play the algorithm monster, jump on my old TikToks and start deleting or downloading some of my old videos just to throw up there because, yeah you know, like you guys said, you know, I would love to dedicate all of my time to doing this podcast and stuff. But unfortunately I got kids and, you know, I have to work and, and all that other crap and when when i do get a day off um this is what i'm doing so i don't have time to do all the the other behind the scenes uh uh podcasting stuff that i need to be doing and would like to do so it's it's terrible but then you got to put yourself out there to to be able to get those people to see it hear your music and you know once you get enough of a following like you said you put it Even if you put a you know a handful of butts in a seat and you're on ah on a show with one or two other bands, you you might have a packed house and maybe a third of them are there to see you guys, but the rest of them never heard of you guys. And then of sudden they're like, oh, wow, we like these guys.
01:09:59
Speaker
Where are going to next? And then that makes it easier for you when you are out on the road or hitting the road to be like, look, we can we can bring this type of a crowd up. Yeah, that's the beauty of being an opener. I mean, you always hope for more fans just being like, hey, I know you don't know who I am, but I am similar to the people that you are here to see. So give me a chance, you know? Yeah, it'd be great just to get on ah a ticket with a similar band. like Even like, yeah.
01:10:30
Speaker
That's, I think, somewhat the next step is... Yeah. You know, once we have or a festival, you know, at first, like when we started reaching out to even just venues, it'd be like, okay, well send us your social media.
01:10:45
Speaker
But when you send them a social media that only has 500 followers across three platforms, they're like, who is this? No. Yeah. Which ah is understandable. They want social proof. sure you know They want proof that people... there's There's some kind of social proof that people want to see you. It's not just based on them listening to your music, which I'm sure they're all busy with their own shit. yeah brooking Now it's like building up those numbers to at least a a respectable amount to where now we can send it to venues and they go, oh, cool. You have...
01:11:22
Speaker
10,000 followers on TikTok. like that That's enough for an opening show. We'll book you. um And that's just the way you know the world works at this point. i mean They want social proof that... yeah I think it was very eye-opening when we moved here, right? And we were like, okay, not right away because we didn't even have a band yet. But when we started the band...
01:11:50
Speaker
And we started sending those emails and sending and just getting rejected or not getting any response at all. And only having maybe one song out that wasn't even like, or be like, now okay, come to our open mic.
01:12:03
Speaker
And we were like, okay, well, All right. And now I'm like, oh, man, OK, we have like 12 songs out. We have a following on all platforms. Maybe it's not like millions, but like it's way more than we used to have. So it makes me more confident to send it and be like, OK, we're actually somebody. You know, hopefully a rising star. So it makes you feel a little bit better to know that you have that to back yourself up and be like, okay, we do have somewhat of a following.
01:12:32
Speaker
Please let us in so we can get more of a following. Yeah, it's it almost makes you guys more legit and in in today's world with with the social media and stuff like that. Like, look, you know, we we are doing something. we People are listening. People are following. You can see that from You know, just YouTube alone. I mean, you guys have gotten quite a few views on on your videos up there. Yeah.
01:12:56
Speaker
So, I mean, people are listening to the music. And and I just need that that that door open a little bit so you can kick it off the hinges and and do your thing.
01:13:09
Speaker
ah you guys do a lot of Do you guys do a lot of the open mics, or do you guys get the opportunity to do a lot of gigs down? Do you prefer, I guess, what is Broadway down there, or do you prefer being off of Broadway and doing some of the other smaller venues or smaller bars or whatever? Well, Broadway's, at this point, just commercial. They want you to play covers covers exactly like they sound on the album. They don't even want you to pay play...
01:13:37
Speaker
your version of a cover they just want you to play a cover exactly how it sounds on the album yeah um which to better worse and i think worse because it's the songwriting capital of the world, but everybody comes here and they just get drunk on Broadway and they just listen. they They could just listen to a jukebox, but they're listening to a live jukebox. But it's crazy because that's what they want. I used to sing on Broadway. Sure. And if you're even doing something remotely a little different, yeah they're like, play this song the way that it... They know it. yeah what
01:14:15
Speaker
Which is fine, but Broadway is not... where you find artists in Nashville. It's rude. You might find a good singer and be like, hey, do you want to be in my band? But like it's usually you're just finding people that are just covering the same stuff over and over. I mean, you go down the strip and it's over and over the same songs. yeah you know But we writers' rounds.
01:14:38
Speaker
We play writers rounds we play places that are smaller like Brown's Diner, you know. And Bukogono's open.
01:14:50
Speaker
Not Donnie's, D's. um There's other small venues. The Underdog, ah the American Legion, stuff like that. Even hotels. Even hotels will like put you on. They'll play covers. But you can play your own stuff in between the covers. It's definitely smaller crowds, but...
01:15:11
Speaker
um You know, if people are here really looking for new artists and looking to hear that sort of thing, then they'll they'll come in and like a listening room sort of sort of thing. um But yeah, I think um most of what you want from audiences, it's a weird thing in Nashville is like,
01:15:36
Speaker
It's over saturated with artists. So the audiences that you're looking for are outside of Nashville. Like you have to go two hours away to get paid for anything.
01:15:49
Speaker
and like a code Because there's so many people who are here who are just, and amazingly talented people, all of them, like for better or worse, really good guitar players, singers, whatever.
01:16:03
Speaker
And they'll take the gig if you don't want it. So that's kind of how they know they can fill it that's kind of how the whole Broadway thing works. It's like, hey, if you don't want to play the song like we want it played, we'll find someone else who will. There's 25 other people that will.
01:16:18
Speaker
So it becomes this thing, until you're somebody... you're nobody you're nobody and you can't you can't really do anything about it yeah you you have to book only these specific places where they're known for new artists and being discovered and being a room where people want to hear that um and there are small venues that don't pay very much um which is whatever um but to like get a big Broadway stage, there's no way they'd ever book you unless you're already at a level where you're well known.
01:16:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:00
Speaker
Even for covers. do you guys do Do you guys do any covers or do you guys solely do mainly your own music? Yeah, we we had a Twitch show like when you know were talking about quitting our job.
01:17:13
Speaker
Yeah, um we had a um ah Twitch show that we would play anywhere from like one to three times a week for like three hours at a time.
01:17:25
Speaker
And we had, i don't know, rotating lists of like 300 songs or something. um was a little easier because obviously it's a Twitch show. So you can like, okay, I don't know if I know that song, but we'll try to play it. And you look it up on the iPad and you're like, this might not go so well, but you know, it's it's not as much pressure as being in, in front of a paying,
01:17:50
Speaker
audience where you're like, let me pull this up on guitar tabs and I'll try to play it, but I might fuck it up. But yeah, we've, we have that experience of just playing a lot of covers and, you know, learning a lot of covers over time and in other bands that I've been in, obviously, she was in a country cover band. So though there are staples that we know really well.
01:18:18
Speaker
um and we used to play sambuca all the time a lot of the good paying shows are cover shows um so we we still do that and even sorry i'm plugging in this charger oh you're good it has such a short charge um and we are not opposed to covers we've released couple covers we have uh Swing Swing by All American Rejects, who I just still absolutely love after all these years. I've always loved them.
01:18:58
Speaker
they're They are like stalwart in the music industry for being like, you know, we need to change things for artists because obviously no one makes any money besides the people at the top.
01:19:13
Speaker
Now the artist, any money, they have a ah new project where it is called, think it's Backyard or Playyard or something like that, where it's it's supposed to um try to get bands in...
01:19:32
Speaker
um
01:19:36
Speaker
basically to pi play at not at venues, but at in like people's yards, like people put on a show, but professionally. And they'll get roadies or whatever.
01:19:47
Speaker
And they all like do the whole thing the same as they would do for any show. But they skip Ticketmaster. And they skip Live Nation. And they just go straight to the artist.
01:19:59
Speaker
Oh, wow. then, you know, obviously the the people who do, they pay the people who obviously bring in the equipment and whatever. But they're skipping the middleman like just the ticket purchaser.
01:20:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um And they did they did a tour recently um that went through Nashville and I thought it was super cool because they're so established, they're famous, like they don't have to do that.
01:20:25
Speaker
But they're one of my favorite bands of all time. we did So anyway, we did Swing Swing by All American Rejects. And recently we did
01:20:39
Speaker
Birds of a Feather by Billie Eilish. Those are both, you can find them on Spotify or YouTube or whatever thing you want to stream them off of. Those are the ones that we have like professionally recorded.
01:20:54
Speaker
Yeah. we video We had a local radio station here in town where I live where they used to do something like that. Backyard. it was a giveaway that they would do for their listeners.
01:21:06
Speaker
and They would get bigger named acts. I think when like Luke Bryan was first coming on the scene and really starting to blow up, they they did one of those, and it was it was a giveaway that they did, and then they would just come set up a full concert in the backyard, and just like, invite your friends and neighbors, and and yeah that always, I didn't realize that the the rejects were doing that, because that's just always, to me, seems like such a really cool idea, you know, to, you know, even with, you know, independent artists, just to bring them together, and
01:21:41
Speaker
like We'll just set up here. you we'll figure out yeah We'll figure out a way to get them paid one way or another. but But it's also a nice nice way for exposure. so two is You mentioned the the Twitch thing. You guys would go live on Twitch and whatnot. Have you ever gone live on any other platforms like TikTok or YouTube or even Facebook and and and done those those those live sessions?
01:22:06
Speaker
We've never done Facebook or YouTube, but we've done TikTok and um There was a couple weeks where we were trying to be consistent with it. it was just difficult with our schedules. um And also we work in the restaurant industry. So it's like,
01:22:24
Speaker
Or in the entertainment industry otherwise. So it's like the times that people are online looking for stuff like that are the times we're working. yeah oh That's kind of like the difficulty because we don't work a nine to five office job.
01:22:40
Speaker
yeah In that case, we could just do it after. so it's always like, okay, well, we're free today from nine to three 30.
01:22:51
Speaker
So if we go live at like, noon 30 or yeah it's like we'll get some people yeah but like most people are at work like so much yeah it's been difficult because we don't we don't have like that friday saturday spot at like 8 30 or 8 o'clock or whatever where everyone can tune in um but we we would like to eventually um or, you know, we've talked about doing more of it in general. We just need to, you know, maybe start doing it consistently and just see what happens and see if we can get
Social Media Strategies for Musicians
01:23:32
Speaker
people. Cause even on certain platforms, you might get people from different countries that it might be a different time.
01:23:38
Speaker
So, you know, even though everyone in America is you know, at work, it might be a different place in it or time in a different country where you know, they might be able to watch and you get get followers that way. So.
01:23:53
Speaker
Yeah, I know there's a couple of guys that I follow that they do. They do TikTok lives pretty consistently. and and And they've started to come over to to YouTube. the hard The hard thing is is that transition one from one platform to another, which is something that I've i've personally dealt with. You get a good following on one platform doesn't necessarily mean that following's lead to another platform. So it's just like, damn, home yeah you guys, it's the same thing.
01:24:23
Speaker
you know The same thing you're watching and you love Just come come over here and watch it on instead of on this one. But, um you know, and and it seems like no matter when some of these guys go, that's why i brought it up to you guys, they get a decent they they get a decent audience in there and people will request songs, especially if you're open and open to do covers and stuff like that and, you know, and and still mix in some of your your original music as well at the same time. Yeah.
01:24:51
Speaker
You know, would be probably, you know, be a little beneficial to you guys. But I get it, you know, trying to find the time. yeah I feel like we found ah a decent following recently too on Facebook, which we didn't really know that we were going to get. It just kind of happened out of nowhere. You know, certain videos have kind of popped off and we're paying a little bit more attention to Facebook.
01:25:15
Speaker
But I do think even talking to my aunt today, randomly, and talk about Instagram, she's like, I don't have Instagram, but I have Facebook. You know, there's a lot of people that don't have all three, four platforms yeah and they use one of them.
01:25:32
Speaker
and it's like, you kind of have to make sure that you're hitting the mark on all of them, which is exhausting. But here we are, you know, there's certain people and the demographic that our songs are hitting, you know, it's kind of like, we want to make sure that we're paying attention to those analytics and kind of paying more attention to the people on those platforms that are more prevalent on certain ones, you know, Facebook versus Instagram and TikTok versus what, you know, you got figure out who's watching what and at what time. And and it's weird how random they are how randomly they pop off because TikTok,
01:26:12
Speaker
We tried forever on Instagram. Instagram still hates us. instagram It's not fan. Instagram will be like 100 to 200 views no matter what we do. Sometimes we'll get 1,000. Every so often.
01:26:25
Speaker
but we Then we finally started doing TikTok, but as millennials, way too late.
01:26:32
Speaker
yeah TikTok... was the easiest like tick tock we at one point 20 one or two posts popped off to like 20 000 views and we like struggled for a whole year to get from like a hundred followers to like a thousand and then all of a sudden over the course of a couple of months we had 12 000 yeah and now we're just all of a sudden recently Facebook was even worse than Instagram.
01:27:01
Speaker
And then one or two posts on Facebook, for some reason, like people just kept commenting on them. And it blew up. And they blew up to like 70,000 views. And then all of a sudden Facebook is like, okay, give us more. And the only one that's never, and and YouTube has always been really consistent about, we've always had consistent views and consistency on YouTube. That's never been a problem.
01:27:28
Speaker
But it's funny because like Instagram wants nothing to do with us. But Facebook all a sudden is like, But it's crazy. We went from like 900 followers to like 6,000 in one weekend.
01:27:45
Speaker
And it's it's just it's weird because you you never know. really and that's why we just keep plug and it And it probably gets annoying for some people and some people, I mean, I feel like content's just not for them when they're like, you're always posting the same thing and I don't like it.
01:28:02
Speaker
It's like, well, this is a discovery platform. So if you see it multiple times and you don't like it, just press the button and say, see less of this or unfollow. Yeah, exactly.
01:28:14
Speaker
Because what we don't, this isn't what we want to be doing. We're musicians. We're not doing this for fun. we just want people, you know, we're trying to find people that like our music.
01:28:26
Speaker
So. No, exactly. You know, and I think that's, I think that's across the board for everybody. You, you, you, you get some sweet spots. Yeah.
01:28:38
Speaker
Nice. Who did you match with? yeah ah Yeah. Which one of us did you match with? Which beard did you match with? Kato is one of our longtime followers.
01:28:54
Speaker
um No. Yeah. It's it's funny how like social media will do that. Like we... I'm in the same boat with Instagram as you guys are, man. I had one video that popped off 600,000 views and I'm like, Oh yeah, we got it.
01:29:07
Speaker
And then the next 200, it's like, come on, man. But you know, our lives, you know, our lives, we might get a handful of people in here. It's the replays where we really, where we, where we really benefit from.
01:29:24
Speaker
on on YouTube. But just recently now it's like everything I put up is getting a couple thousand, you know, reels or whatever is getting a thousand to a couple thousand views. I'm like, Hey, we're finally not on YouTube's doors. Tick tock hates us.
01:29:39
Speaker
That's okay because um never know though so we're not even allowed to go live on tick tock on our tick tock account. I mean, our count that's one thing, but our our podcast account, We can't even go live on there, so I don't even mess with it too much, but yeah it's what it is. um But it's just that funny. You got to find that sweet spot in the algorithm. and and you know take you I don't know if there's if there's a way to replicate it or whatever, but I mean.
01:30:12
Speaker
i don't I don't mind. i actually enjoy if I'm following an artist and and I'm a fan of that artist, if I scroll through Facebook or I scroll through Instagram and I see six or seven your posts in a row, I don't care.
01:30:26
Speaker
Because that means that those social media platforms are pushing it out there for you guys. And they're force feeding people. And that's good. you know And I'm going like every one of them so until they tell me I've liked too many times.
01:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. Jeez.
01:30:47
Speaker
That's because bought You know, the crazy we got, were like within 100, think 100 hours of the 3000 hours that YouTube requires to monetize. And then it reset the clock. we were like within one hundred think a hundred hours of the three thousand hours that youtube requires to monetize um and then it reset the clock like Oh yeah. You gotta be in that. um And then it's just like, jump down and jump down and jump down. I was like, i give up. care
01:31:19
Speaker
I don't care. I don't care. That's that. That's where that, that consistency kind of pays off. We, we benefit from it greatly because it was all sorts. Nice. Uh, we benefit because we, we have live shows seven days a week, basically.
01:31:34
Speaker
Yeah. And in some days, like Saturdays, every other Saturday, we have two shows and, um, during the football season, we have two shows on Sunday because I do a sports show.
01:31:46
Speaker
And then my girlfriend and I do another show with like paranormal true crime and cryptids and stuff like that. um So we benefit from the fact that we're we're live every night during the week to get the two hours, but that's all we really do. There's not a lot of shorts. There's not a lot of videos, but yeah, it and it took us, I mean, it took us a long time to get those 3000 hours.
01:32:10
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's, it's a, it's a, it is an absolute uphill climb. ah It's that, that social media monster that, that that you gotta, anymore, unfortunately, like you guys said, you're an influencer first.
Singles vs. Albums: Navigating Modern Music Releases
01:32:27
Speaker
Yeah. I know that I'm a terrible influence. So nobody wants me in influencing them. think So, what's What do you guys... you guys got anything that you're working on? do you you you want Are you working on maybe an album? Are you going stick with the single? It seems to be the new method for new new musicians is the singles on on the social medias and banging them out there.
01:32:50
Speaker
I mean, honestly, we've wanted to do an album since probably our first song where we're just like, we have all these songs. Wouldn't it be easier to do them all together? And love...
01:33:02
Speaker
do and i love the idea of making an album, like being in the studio, workshopping it, like yeah taking multiple days, just like living there. And like, you know, i
01:33:17
Speaker
there's something about it that's just very music to me, like the the dream or or at least like what I grew up watching like documentaries of my favorite artists of like the sixties and seventies, like,
01:33:34
Speaker
They went to this, you know, Queen went to this place out in the woods and they put together this album and they didn't even have this song wrote, but they had to write another song to fit it in the album. It became their greatest hit.
01:33:49
Speaker
Like that, that kind of like story nostalgia is like something I always think about, but everyone and everyone we've talked to is like, you're not big enough to do an album.
01:34:06
Speaker
Don't do an album. Just do singles. Could we do it? Yes. Not in a mean way. No. It's more like nowadays. Don't waste your money. Nobody cares. If you drop an album, nobody's going to care about it. And then you're going be crestfallen that you dropped like 10, 20 songs.
01:34:26
Speaker
and nobody listened any of them. So you're better off just doing single after single and keeping the algorithm happy, which is all we everyone now we strive to please the algorithm we are yeah algorithm. i We are right there with you guys. Trust me. i mean the algorithm The algorithm is everything. Crazy algorithm.
01:34:52
Speaker
yeah And wish i mean that's just the way of the world. And i take it from our betters to know better than we do and our producers and people who have been doing this for longer than we have who are just like, do yourself a favor.
01:35:11
Speaker
Just do singles until something happens. yeah And the medium is an EP, which would be probably like four to five songs maybe or three to four. And we've definitely hem and hawed about doing one of those and like when the appropriate time would be. And, you know, it's it's really hard because we do want to do that. And actually, at this at the same time, you know, every single has its own album art.
01:35:39
Speaker
Every single has its own everything. So you have to like rinse and repeat, like we've said, every six to eight weeks. And that's exhausting. Yeah. And release an EP and do the waterfall effect where you still release them as singles, but it's the same album.
01:35:55
Speaker
You know, that that's a little bit of a different thing than releasing a whole album because you're not dropping 15 of your songs just like into a bucket that's not going to, you know, get anything from it.
01:36:07
Speaker
So we have talked about an EP. We might do one next year, but right now we're very much like on this. Just feed the algorithm, give it a single every six to eight weeks, depending.
01:36:19
Speaker
and see where we land and hope that something, you know, kind of blows up enough to warrant a new P. Yeah. Well, and that seems to be the, the formula, you know, anymore with a lot of the yeah is that slaves to the algo. Cool band name right there. I might write that down next to your wizard, Harry.
01:36:41
Speaker
Yeah. There you go. A side project. Yeah. That could be our Electronica offshoot. slave Yeah, no that seems to be the formula. I talk to a lot of artists and stuff, and that's like, yeah, you know I'd love to do an album. But like you guys said, this is this is what artists are doing. They're a song here and there. you know Maybe the EP. I have had a few people that I know drop the EPs, and they seem to do pretty well because that's the unfortunate thing is the society we live in, our attention spans have gotten...
01:37:14
Speaker
smaller than a fly's attention span so you know i i'm old i so i miss the days of going to the uh music store yeah release day and getting whether it was the record or the tape or the cd and jumping in my car or going home and putting it in reading the album art, you know, we're looking at to the album art, reading the stories in there and just listening to it.
01:37:42
Speaker
But unfortunately, everybody, nobody does that anymore. You know, they listen to YouTube music, Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, whatever the case may be. And they're perfectly fine getting, um you know, one or two songs every few weeks, you know.
01:38:01
Speaker
I know when freaking Morgan Wallen dropped his album last summer. damn near 40 freaking songs on it and that weekend i had the kids were gone and i was like i'm gonna go to the lake for the weekend and sat there and put my earbuds in and listen to the whole album and i was like well there was my whole day on um on one guy i didn't realize he put so many songs on this album until i i was just like crap man um so yeah you guys that's because every writer in town its like morgan molland do you want to cut this song yeah
01:38:37
Speaker
i don't I don't think the guy can say no at this point. ah Right. We were just talking to a guy, actually one of our audio engineers. Oh, wait, was it Aiden we were talking to? about but like the long Oh no, one of the musicians, about like the long form um like CDs, where it was like the long sleeve CD. Yeah, they used to put them in the case so they'd stick up high enough when they just had albums. when they had like It was like a CD, but a double CD.
01:39:05
Speaker
Yeah, remember it was like a long one. Sometimes they would have It had an art on both. But other times it would just be clear on the bottom and it would just be like an extended case so they would stick out at like Best Buy. And you just jogged a really i didn't even know that was in there long memory for me. fuck
01:39:29
Speaker
In between cassettes and CDs and just like the normal CD that was wrapped in plastic. Yeah. But yeah. When you guys really, you know, you you brought up like the the song art and stuff like
Producing and Distributing Music
01:39:44
Speaker
that. Do you guys sit down and create all that? Or do you have somebody that does that for you? or i'm here and We have multiple friends and a couple family members that are artists. or um The guy who's done all of our music videos, Zach Knudsen, a phenomenal um photographer.
01:40:07
Speaker
um And videographer. And videographer, although, you know, I think he he thinks of himself more as a photographer. and you know, that is what he's like.
01:40:18
Speaker
Passionate His photography is sometimes mind blowing. I've never seen anything like it. Truly spectacular. But he, you know, we were lucky enough to meet him.
01:40:30
Speaker
Paul McDonald, another person in town. and another great artist to check out. The guy, you know, he's just phenomenal.
01:40:41
Speaker
We met him in a clandestine um kind of show we played in New York. Really long story and weird story about how we got there.
01:40:53
Speaker
But we met him there and he introduced us where we asked him, hey, do you know a photographer when we needed photography done, we met Zach, we became really good friends with him and his wife, and he does all our music videos.
01:41:09
Speaker
Um, And where was I going? Oh, the album art. Yeah. We've used some of his photography for like last. That is a photograph he took.
01:41:23
Speaker
Right. That was part of, you know, most photographers, i think our first photographer we worked with was like, I'll do 20 photos for you for like $1,000 whatever.
01:41:37
Speaker
um And, you know, whatever it was, i don't know if it was exactly that, but Zach, like really just like had us come in and have different outfits and like made us feel at home. And like, we were hanging out with a buddy, made us feel really relaxed. And all the photos came out so incredible.
01:41:57
Speaker
We were like, man, you know, you you took 200 photos and we want all of them. But you're going to make us choose this many.
01:42:08
Speaker
You know, because usually a photographer will take all these photos, but they you know then they touch up and do more work on a few. But there were so many that we didn't use for like, we wanted just a couple of photos for like,
01:42:24
Speaker
I don't know, for like press releases and other things like that and like Spotify profile and yada yada, and that we had all these extras. So we've used some of those for album art.
01:42:35
Speaker
And then i have a cousin who's ah Brendan Cooney, who he does spray paint art. He's an incredible artist, um does murals all over the world. We've done cool with him.
01:42:50
Speaker
um And then Margo and joe margot and Joe, who are great graphic artists that they've, they do, you know, basically, I feel like they can do anything, but they usually are just geared to like, whatever we hone them in on.
01:43:07
Speaker
Usually the style too, you know, we we talk about the concept and then we tell them kind of what style we're looking for, if it's more drawn or if it's more artistic or if it's more, you know,
01:43:18
Speaker
abstract or you know they kind of go in any direction but they did a whole you know they had their old videography like a company as well i mean oh yeah they've got a lot of stuff they did our very first music video which was amazing um and then alex westbrook which is um she did the cover art for a previous band that I was in.
01:43:44
Speaker
and she is a good friend of ours as well. She's done one of our, our works. um She doesn't like do that so much anymore. So it's, you know, a little bit of a like, Hey, do you have time to do this? and But also I think she loves it. Cause it's like a fun outlet for her, you know, that she doesn't get to do now. She has kids and, you know, a lot of other things. And,
01:44:09
Speaker
I think it's nice for her to get the the invitation to be creative in that way and get paid for it from someone that she knows and you know, do something that really heartfelt.
01:44:20
Speaker
Ultimately, sometimes we're just like, oh shit, we have a song to release. Sometimes. We get a, we, you know, we have a eight week window, but we get back a the master, like or four weeks from the release. And we're like, and that's when you have to start pitching. ah Nobody, like we can't ask any of our friends to just like spit this out in two weeks or they're busy or whatever. and we're like,
01:44:43
Speaker
Let's just find a picture of something yeah and do it. It's but it has happened. That is the the crux of doing all singles. It's every single song. It's like yeah every time you have to do everything from...
01:45:00
Speaker
Yep. Soup to nuts. You blink your eyes and it's already time to do another one. and You're like, oh. that's That's what we're trying to get ahead of now is to get out of that cycle of constant stress um of like, you know, you go in to track and then you go in to do vocals.
01:45:18
Speaker
Then you wait for the mix. Then you communicate based on what you want to change in the mix. So that can be back and forth one to like five different edits, like, you know, one to three weeks. And then then it goes to master and that could take one to two weeks. And then you get the song and then you have to put it all into the distributor and you have to wait for the distributor to send it to Spotify and to Apple and all the things. And to do that, you have to have the album art. I'm just going to say. You know, you have to put the album art on it. And it's just like, and then Spotify is like, well, you have to pitch to us within a certain amount of time.
01:46:02
Speaker
We're still not going to answer you, but you won't be on release radar unless we get it in time. yeah we're We're not going to ever respond to you or put it in any of our editorial playlists, unless you're someone who we know, but. And then you take a heavy sigh and it's time to do it. yeah And then you're like, finally, i did it all.
01:46:24
Speaker
and then you have time And then you have to make a pre-release, pre-save, message all your friends, email all your followers, promote it Facebook.
01:46:37
Speaker
And then you have to get all your creatives done. And then you have to get all your creatives and put them on meta and set up advertisements. Just you talking about it is exhausting. Would you say every 68 weeks, it's like, oh, it's nice. You get to take a break in between. But you really don't.
01:46:57
Speaker
oh You really don't. well I mean, is what record in the record industry made of like yeah usually you have ah a team that's like there's a person who does for everything so like you as the artists are just like hey you just make music you keep doing what you're doing we love you as an independent artist it's like no one loves you yeah you should think that at all times until someone until we say otherwise yes
01:47:31
Speaker
doing everything Yeah, i chose me I totally understand as a guy who literally does. Like, that was my thought. going start a startup podcast. It'll be easy.
01:47:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah. but no Oh, no there's oh yeah There's a lot. This is a second full-time job that I don't get paid for at all. ah yeah we know we know the deal as well with with you know twitch was like it's all money out no money and we were thinking like oh we could get someone's exposure and we could probably make a little money doing the twitch thing and easy and then it'd be like no just hundreds of hours and we were like what do we make for this but five dollars yeah
01:48:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's that's what I say. you know like you Even TikTok, you can go on there and do a live, and people can send gifts and all that stuff. And it's like, you know I just did a three-hour live you know and got a whole bunch of gifts and stuff.
01:48:28
Speaker
And then you go and look at it, and it's like $3. three dollars and Yeah. answers are so i like Well,
01:48:35
Speaker
And then even put insult to injury, you watch like famous people. They just like start alive and they're just eating a sandwich and people give them like $50,000. And you're like, why?
01:48:48
Speaker
They don't need it. Ella Langley does not need your $50,000. What are you doing? there's there's a again not easy at all there's a podcast that i watch you know we got our super chats we finally got monetized on youtube so people can send super chats and they can send gifts if they want to but um there's a podcast that i watch and they do these long six seven eight hour long shows and in order for them to read kind like
01:49:20
Speaker
if If you want your comment read or acknowledged, you have to send a gift or a super chat of a minimum amount. And I'm watching. I have never watched the full podcast, but just watching clips on YouTube, people are sending in these one, two, three, four, five, six hundred dollars super chats just to get their stupid comment read.
01:49:41
Speaker
And it's just like, man, if that guy's getting in an eight, seven, eight hour show, how many these are, is he getting? Cause I just watched a 10 minute clip and he got like 12 giant super. It's like, like, good Lord.
01:49:57
Speaker
Yeah. What kind of lower are you putting on your line? Yeah. but um That's what I need. That's, that's what I need to do. I need to get to that level. But, um, so, but um so I don't want to keep you guys too late, but i do want to start wrapping this up.
01:50:16
Speaker
Do you guys got anything coming up? Anything that you're out now that you're pushing and promoting or any shows or anything like that that you're going to be doing it anytime soon?
01:50:28
Speaker
We have another release on July 10th. um It's called What's Mine? And a not too long ago, we released Drown Drown.
01:50:42
Speaker
So that's out. um What's Mine will be the next one. And then we play we play a writer's round at Odie's in Nashville in 12 South, right? Yeah, on Tuesday next week. Yeah, Tuesday next week.
01:51:01
Speaker
So those are the main ones. um There's a secret show we can't talk about. In july in July. July. If you don't know, now you know. but with i If anyone's in Ireland, we'll be there end of August, beginning of September. We might play a show.
01:51:27
Speaker
nice. Yeah, we can go. conference can we go yeah we can yeah okay we're booking flights today yeah we have booked for now um yeah i think next year is like a it was this year too but the beginning of the year was not kind so we're trying we definitely want to play out more but we're still like trying to feed the algorithm and like put music out and but live shows we're getting better at getting ahead of the game so yeah right now we have a lot in ah in in our works in the works and in in the log and the idea or the hope is that we stack up releases enough to do all of next year
01:52:20
Speaker
And then we can basically have those pretty much already done and focus on playing live. Yeah. And like reaching out to venues like we've talked about and reaching out to those same venues that we reached out to when we moved here that are like, hey, we don't know who you are. Yeah. You know.
01:52:39
Speaker
And now we're like, hey, we have stuff. We have a following. Like, please let us book your show. And I think there might be more more response yeah than there was a couple years ago when we didn't really have anything.
01:52:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, ultimately, you know, it'll be nice when you guys reach that point where they're reaching out to you. and move Right. here and Reaching out to you. yes well and i mean pierce said it merch merch is everything that is how people make their money these days it's not by touring touring is really expensive that and you right at the top of our list sell merch so it's getting a shop we do have merch on our website need to get a shopify we have t-shirts on there but we're we need to get a shopify going to just be more findable yeah um
01:53:30
Speaker
Well, we needed we needed a fan base, right? Or like a following before anything else. So we're like the building blocks, you know, fan base and then get the merch and play out more and have people buy the merch and just one at a time.
01:53:45
Speaker
Yeah. See, Wally. Pierce is not only my best friend and i one of my oldest friends, but he's also my partner here on the network. He does a couple shows with motorsports. And they have been busting my balls lately about merch.
01:53:59
Speaker
And I'm like, merch costs money. And I have the equipment where I can do shirts and I can do cups and I can do hats and I can do all the things. But it costs money and there has to be a demand for it before i go spend a whole bunch of money. Because again, independent means you pay for everything out of your money. It's in a box, right? You're like, okay, I have all this stuff that no one's buying. Well, we originally did merch. We bought it from someone that we knew who did merch for like bars and restaurants. and
01:54:33
Speaker
And then it just kind of sat. We paid, ah what is it?
01:54:39
Speaker
the hosting platform, Squarespace. Oh, like, yeah, the website, Squarespace. We paid Squarespace like $30 a month. To have like a shop on there. To have a shop on there, but no one bought any of our shirts. So it's like, it was we had a few. I mean, we, yeah, right off the bat, we had family and friends by, you know, by, by like the initial pop was like, okay.
01:55:02
Speaker
But at this point, you know, we've paid, $300 more store we ever Yeah. So it's like, a store than we ever made yeah yeah on the show was like Isn't it a waste of time? We can just do, well, you know, that's why Shopify and stuff like that exists because they just make the shirt when someone orders it and they take it. Right. Which is great. Until it's not sitting at your house. Until such time you have following where you're like playing shows and then you show up with the merch and that's when. And then you sell it all. That's it pays more because you're like, I paid
01:55:42
Speaker
I bought like 800 shirts amount yeah for $8 a piece and I'll sell them for 30 and then make some money. Sure. And that's, that's, that's what I said to you. Right now the the handful of people that want to buy stuff, I'm gonna have to sell a t-shirt for $50 to make any money off of it. Who was buying that?
01:56:00
Speaker
loving that yeah Yeah, exactly. yeah I don't want to do that to people. I wouldn't do it. Somebody's like, yeah, I got a t-shirt here. Well, yeah, okay. Well, I can spend $15 and make the same shirt that you have.
01:56:12
Speaker
Why am I going to buy it for $50? No matter how much I like you and I want to support you, i'm not doing it. I would like the demand to be there to where you know I can still make a little bit of money but also keep them you know at a reasonable price. yeah I'm not out here trying to trying to gouge people to death. But we, the March will come when mer when it's when when it's ready, when it when the time is right. You know, that I think that goes for everybody.
01:56:42
Speaker
When the time's right, so suck it, Pierce. It's the chicken before the egg. All right. Before the chicken. We don't know. Who came first? Yeah, who or what came first? We don't know. That's the...
01:56:58
Speaker
the question that baffles everybody's mind pierce you give up so easily i'm disappointed yeah he does you're not allowed to he tells me every week he quit he quits the network at least 20 times a week awesome so now um before i let you guys jump off here i'll let you go i always ask i know it's kind of cheesy and it's cliche but i don't care um It's kind of a two-part twopart question, two-part answer.
01:57:29
Speaker
um Any up-and-coming musicians or anything like that, what would be some advice that you guys would give them? And also, any piece of life and ah life advice, you know something that maybe somebody told you once upon a time that stuck with you, or as you get older, you've realized things in life and you have your own little philosophy about something.
01:57:53
Speaker
Do want to go first? ah who
01:58:01
Speaker
Life advice. um
01:58:08
Speaker
I would say haters going to We were talking today and this really resonates with me because there are people, i don't know if you read it or if you've seen Reddit, but there are people on there that are not great. I'm not going lie.
01:58:26
Speaker
And there's whatever are promoting people that aren't very great. Right. Or people that think that they're not like, they don't think that those people are great. No matter what those people are still posting and still out there and still doing what they're doing because they believe in it.
01:58:43
Speaker
And to be honest, no one's going to be your biggest fan. If you aren't, And I think that that as hard as it is, it's so hard for me. I'm really bad at motivating myself, at being my biggest fan, at being pretentious. And obviously there's a difference between being pretentious and being like really full of yourself when you don't, you know, maybe you shouldn't be. Yeah.
01:59:11
Speaker
But no one's going to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself. So I think that is a really big life lesson, no matter if it's in music or if it's in just in life.
01:59:23
Speaker
ah I think it shows a lot more integrity if you're just out there believing in yourself and doing what you want to do because you love it and you believe in it and you want to be doing it.
01:59:33
Speaker
Usually everything else follows that. And if it doesn't, you can at least say that you tried and that you did what you wanted to do and no one else, you know, told you that you couldn't and you quit because of that.
01:59:47
Speaker
So I'm, That's my little token. Yeah. Piggybacking off of that, um you can't lose if you don't quit.
02:00:00
Speaker
um And some of some of my like sports idols, like you know Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, just people that had ultimate confidence um is what got them through. And I think if if you lose sight um whatever job you're trying to do, you know maybe you don't call it a job, maybe it's a vision or a dream, but if it's not done, then it's not done, you keep going.
02:00:38
Speaker
And you know once you get over that finish line, you can stop. Want to, or you can keep going. um And as far as like advice for people, musicians just getting started or anything like that is i think one,
02:01:10
Speaker
i guess eyes I say this, but maybe some people should take the advice that that if if you encounter enemies, you're going the right way.
02:01:22
Speaker
it's It's video game logic. I know that's true. I know that's right. Well, because... u But I mean, I guess that's a little bit flawed because maybe maybe you're maybe it it is really just bad. But like she was saying, but like she was saying like people who get hated on and they keep with it is like, there you don't lose unless you quit.
02:01:47
Speaker
Once you quit, you've lost. So if you keep going- You're almost giving power to be like, okay. If you keep going- You beat me down enough. Then there's there's always a possibility- That you win.
02:02:02
Speaker
And that possibility disappears if you quit. Yeah. 100%. Cat Williams has a bit about haters. you know If you've got 14 haters, you're doing something right. Go out and get six more.
02:02:17
Speaker
yeah and I'm a prime example of that. I've been doing this. this podcast thing for, you know, five years. It started out as a complete fucking shit show before we went content driven in the last year and a half, two years and and started doing shows like this one.
02:02:35
Speaker
Come across a lot of hate in my way and and in our, in our journey. And a lot of times it was like, you know what? Fuck it. Why am I doing this? But at the same time, come back to the stubborn time. I'm a stubborn ass son of a bitch. And,
02:02:48
Speaker
I am my greatest fan. I know that I'm the great, you know, the best at what I do. but Maybe a little, maybe a little bit of an ego. so that's helpful.
02:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. So I joke all the time that Joe Rogan ain't got shit on me. And I mean, props to the he's the godfather of podcasting. And, but I, I'll put it out there because eventually one day somebody is going to Joe, there's this weird ass. dude that does a show from his bedroom. I'm going to be on his radar. That's hilarious. Well, I mean, that's the thing too. Even on different platforms, we always joke about
02:03:26
Speaker
you know if we get negative comments we're like look mom we made it you know like it it is a thing if you're not getting negative feedback in some connotation what are you doing you know there's gonna be people that are gonna hate you and it's okay and you have to embrace it and laugh at it and just be like okay i'm confident enough to like laugh at you and be like cool you're entitled to your opinion but i'm I'm the greatest.
02:03:54
Speaker
yeah I'm not laughing at you. like I love the supporters. I love people out there that support us and watch all of our shows and and yeah like what we do and everything like that.
02:04:04
Speaker
and That definitely drives me to keep doing it and being better. But when when a hater comes in and starts talking out of pocket or gets sideways, that's just more fuel to the fire. Like now, now I'm going to prove you wrong. Yeah. Like I said, MJ. And I took that personal.
02:04:21
Speaker
Yeah. We always joke about that. And I took that personal. a Yep, exactly. um You guys are are awesome. I am a fan of the music. One of the cool things that about this show is not only getting to hang out with you guys,
02:04:37
Speaker
But in a small way, getting to go on this journey with you as a fan and watching you guys grow and watching the music and and listening to the music.
02:04:48
Speaker
Anything we can do, don't be strangers. If you got something coming up, new music, send it my way. i run all the social medias. So if you're talking to somebody on social media, it's going to be me.
02:04:59
Speaker
Anything we can share for you guys, throw up in our stories, just let us know. And I would love to have you guys back on again. I love bringing guests back down the road, few months down the road, just to catch up, see what you guys are doing, shoot to shit and hang out again, if that's something you guys would be interested in.
02:05:15
Speaker
But yeah, like don't don't be strangers. you know We definitely want to push out your music as much as we can as well. So I need to get back into the habit. I used to do a thing called New Music Friday, and we just fill our stories full of former guests that have new music out, you know, whether it came out that week or it's been out for a month or so. it's It's new and it's out there and we want to do our part. So whatever we can do, you've got something coming up, a show, we can promote it. We'll absolutely throw it out there socials for you guys or share it or anything like that.
02:05:49
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah. We appreciate it. We, I mean, we had a great time on here. Scorpio, thanks for liking Drone Drum. just wanted to hear that out loud. Because Scorpio is great. He's one of our one of our loyal followers. And he goes, and from the moment he hears who the guest is going to be on Tuesday, he goes and and listens to all the music and comes in and chats about it and say the songs that he like that it likes and everything like that.
02:06:18
Speaker
Love that. That's great. Appreciate you having us on. Yeah. Hanging out with us. Absolutely. Thank you guys again, taking a little bit of time, coming up here and hanging out with me. We'll do it again down the road, I hope. And hopefully, you know, like i said, I'll continue to watch you guys grow and succeed and anything we can do to help. Don't be, don't be shy.
02:06:37
Speaker
Thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much. meet you Yep. Absolutely. I'll let you, if you guys want, you can hang out or you can drop down. I got to my little spiel and Wally, who do you have coming up this week? and I got to do my little closing spiel. So you're welcome to hang out yes or you can drop down. It don't matter.
02:06:53
Speaker
um
02:06:56
Speaker
But thank you guys for hanging out, watching, and listening. Hopefully you guys enjoyed hanging out with Thistle and Oak and getting know them and hearing some of their tunes. Go check them out. Got all their social media in the chat. They're really easy to find. Just put in Thistle and Oak music or Thistle and Oak.
02:07:12
Speaker
You're going to find them everywhere. Check out their music. Blow up their algorithms. but And if you don't like it, you heard what they said, tell us tell them. They'll but us um But make sure you guys check out the rest of our shows this week. Tomorrow night, i got comedian Joe Sirocco coming on, I believe from Jersey or New York.
02:07:39
Speaker
one of those One of those two states up there. Tomorrow night, it's going to a good time chatting with him and hearing about his comedy career. Wally is doing a free-for-all Thursday night. Uh, so that's going to him and Johnny just chatting about whatever's going on in the, uh, in the racing world. It's rough truck season and monster truck season and motorsports season or not motorsport, uh, motocross.
02:08:02
Speaker
Excuse me. So, and then Saturday we've got, uh, Cash's Corner. Cash and I'll be talking wrestling. Uh, that's my son. We're big wrestling fans, so we do ah we do a wrestling podcast together.
02:08:14
Speaker
And then, of course, Saturday night, we got the crazy shit show. So tune in for all the shows. Check us out. Give us follow. Give us a like. Give us a share. Bio.link slash nonsensicalnetwork. And don't forget, we always do have the super chats and all that fun stuff going on in the chatter's box. Saturday nights, the biggest super chatter has the opportunity to, if we reach our goal, has the opportunity to come up on one of the shows throughout the week and co-host with us.
02:08:39
Speaker
so little something we're trying to do. if People are donating money to allow them to come up and be a part of one of the shows as long as they follow the rules and understand that it's not Saturday night. and Unless they want to co-host Saturday night, which that's fine too. I don't care. They have behave themselves.
02:08:56
Speaker
But again, thank you to Thistle and Out, Paul and Lindsay. Thank you guys so much. You guys are awesome. ah And everybody that watches and supports, make sure you go follow them as well. We're going to end the show with a little bit of Oh, if I can get my buttons right.
02:09:12
Speaker
With a little bit of whiskey and wine, because that's one of my favorite songs and it's my show. So thank you.
02:09:23
Speaker
Yep. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. Have a great night and we'll chat again. All right.
02:09:31
Speaker
And you are welcome to back out while this is playing. you don't to stick around or anything like that. I have had some guests go, do I have to wait around for this to be? Like, no, I'm not holding you captive. You're welcome to leave anytime. We're game, so we're going watch. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Have a great night.
02:09:51
Speaker
Thanks, you too.
02:10:09
Speaker
I'll take my chances
02:10:27
Speaker
I'll follow the rest.
02:10:34
Speaker
I'll break my own heart because I do it the best.
02:10:52
Speaker
It's not one
02:10:58
Speaker
So I go back to my whiskey. And you go back to your wine. You take your time now.
02:12:07
Speaker
Let's take our chances.
02:12:56
Speaker
Keep telling white lies.
02:13:06
Speaker
And I'll go back to my wine.
02:13:22
Speaker
So I'll go back to my whiskey And I'll go back to my wine So I'll go back to my whiskey And I'll go back to my wine