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32. A Takedown of "Modest Is Hottest"
17 Plays1 month ago
Teens will always find a way to fuck.
Get ready to get mad again this week! Christina and Molly confront modesty culture as they each experienced it through the Mormon church. Actually there’s a lot of confrontation of trauma at the hands of the church in this episode. So fun!
TW/CW: mentions of adolescent sexual activity, hypothetical SA & domestic violence, the Holocaust, body size discrimination and shaming, adolescent interest in porn, and discussions of “victim blaming” through the lens of modesty culture.
We're so grateful you're here! If you like what you’re hearing, you can find more exclusive content on Patreon: www.patreon.com/soulpodthepodcast. Follow us on Instagram for updates on when the Patreon is live!
You can also follow us on Instagram: @soulpodthepodcast, or email us directly at soulpodthepodcast@gmail.com.
Molly does tarot readings online and locally in Massachusetts: https://www.thehighpriestesscoaching.com/
Christina sells delicious microgreens in the greater Detroit area: https://www.christinasgreens.com/
Hosts: Christina Bell & Molly Wilde
Music: The Confrontation, by Jonathan Boyle, licensed from Premium Beats by Shutterstock
Editing: Molly Wilde
Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is for entertainment and enjoyment. We are not professionals in any regard. We do not have professional knowledge, training, or education in physical health, mental health, or spiritual matters. Any suggestions or recommendations made during our episodes should be independently researched by the listener before considering implementation, or better yet, listeners should ignore everything we say. We cannot be held responsible or liable for anything we say, or any actions taken by any persons as a result of listening to our podcast episodes. Stay safe, stay informed, stay smart.
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Transcript
Escaping the 9 to 5: Introducing Our Patreon
00:00:25
Speaker
but yeah
00:00:32
Speaker
ah we started patreon was that your that was your introduction to that was that was my segue the announcement from lamenting the the fucking nine to five or eight to five god damn it yeah out yeah
00:00:50
Speaker
straight into give us money so i don't have to do that anymore try working 5 25 to 4 but at least your job has some sort of like purpose i guess and you don't have to be beholden to a robot needing to you know too fast or authenticate you 17 times in a row It's so dumb, dude.
00:01:18
Speaker
my god. I'm so... I'm too smart for this shit. God damn it. Let's talk about the Patreon.
Hair Styling and Distractions
00:01:27
Speaker
Patreon! Patreon!
00:01:31
Speaker
Patreon! You know what I wish could What do you want? I wish that I could make your video bigger so I could see you better. Why? i just look like an egg.
00:01:45
Speaker
Shut up. I don't. You do have a sumo bun on top of your head, though. It's not. It's a clip. see from the From the front angle, it looks like a sumo bun. sticking on Yeah, I've been wearing my hair and a clip because I feel like when I wear it in a bun all the time, like a bun with a scrunchie, it pulls all my hair out.
00:02:09
Speaker
So I've been wearing it in a clip.
00:02:14
Speaker
Clippity-dip-dip.
00:02:19
Speaker
We gotta focus, bitch. You didn't tell me I needed to take my Adderall. Come on. Well, if you took it now, you'd be fucked for the night. but so And not in a good way.
00:02:31
Speaker
Right. So what's going on, Patreon? What's up, Patreon? All right, y'all. ah This is... We're recording this ahead of time, but...
00:02:44
Speaker
By the time this episode is dropping, our Patreon should be live. move ah yeah. So we're going to keep a link in the ah description of all the episodes going forward. We're going to share about it on our Instagram, obviously, as well. and y'all should go check it out and support us.
00:03:12
Speaker
I'll Patreon. Can't wait for all you sour pusses to check out our tears.
00:03:21
Speaker
And I don't mean tears of the patriarchy.
00:03:28
Speaker
oh Oh my God. Y'all it's going to like, it's so worth it though. Like we're, we're packing so much value into our, our, uh, benefits.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. At least we think we are. we totally are, though. no like, we we really truly, like, have worked really hard to figure out what we should offer and, like, what sorts of things y'all would like.
Modesty and Purity Culture: Origins and Impacts
00:03:57
Speaker
And we feel really excited about it. Hell yeah! Please support us on Patreon. Please. You won't regret it We need all the support we can get.
00:04:12
Speaker
We really do. Oh, God. Y'all won't have heard it, but I kind of just had a minty bee on recording a bit ago. Because work fucking sucks.
00:04:24
Speaker
To quote Blink-182, work sucks. I know. works i know
00:04:33
Speaker
oh so If you'd like for us to not have to waste our lives working jobs that don't mean jack shit,
00:04:45
Speaker
then Patreon is the way to help us get to that goal. This is not us begging. It's not us begging. Like, we really do have, like, so much confidence in the value that we're offering with the Patreon. Like, really, truly. Like, we wouldn't, this is the kind of thing that, like,
00:05:03
Speaker
we are both so like committed to that. Like you be we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't feel like it was worth it for people to subscribe.
00:05:15
Speaker
For sure. For sure. Yeah. So yeah, go check it out. And we hope to see you over there. We do actually have like a whole actual real episode today.
00:05:27
Speaker
i Oh my God. And we, I don't know what, to I don't know how this conversation is going to fucking go. Me neither. Yeah. I had a couple ideas.
00:05:39
Speaker
Like, yeah, I wrote down a couple questions in my, Business bullshit notebook. I love this notebook. Oh my God.
00:05:51
Speaker
But um yeah, I wrote down a couple of questions that I intend to pose to you, but kind of we're both going to just sort of talk about. stuff that will like both answer them but you know just stuff to sort of help get a little um person not perspective but like offer a view into like where we're coming from on this and so without further ado let's actually tell them what we're talking about okay
00:06:22
Speaker
Um, so subject today is modesty and purity culture. in And don't want to necessarily get into like the, like all the ins and outs of it, but more so like how it has impacted us and lots of people like us.
00:06:42
Speaker
Okay. Because here's the thing that we have been not quiet at all about the fact that we have both come from Mormon backgrounds. But Mormons are not the only religion that hold strict modesty standards.
00:06:59
Speaker
And because of that, or in in consideration of that, I don't want to speak on anything that might insinuate that we know anything about other religions that have modesty doctrine or rules or anything to that effect, because I don't know details about that and i don't understand them me neither so this is not us saying that we understand the purposes of a hijab or you know anything to that effect we don't we're not speaking to those like other religious institutions
00:07:45
Speaker
or backgrounds. We're only speaking from our own experience and also from, you know, learning about recent changes to some things which have been, i don't know, questionable.
00:08:02
Speaker
Really, it's ah no secret that Mormonism is, like, weirdly strict about modesty rules and has always been weirdly strict.
00:08:14
Speaker
And It was like a damaging thing, really, growing up, at least for me and for a lot of people I knew And in 2022, we learned that the modesty standards written as written in the pamphlet for Mormon youth, teenagers, adolescents, were dramatically changed.
00:08:39
Speaker
to exclude any specific verbiage on shorts and skirt lengths whether you should wear sleeves or not or anything to that effect, as well as but removing verbiage about piercings and tattoos.
00:08:57
Speaker
Yeah. and when that, like admittedly, yes, it was in 2022, but it felt like a gut punch that I haven't, I still haven't recovered from. oh Where, like, I'm just like, okay, so did it ever matter?
00:09:13
Speaker
Right. And why was I, like, belittled and punished for things that seemingly must have never mattered? Right.
00:09:25
Speaker
For things to change the way that they but the way that they have. So, with that in mind, um wanted to ask you, Christina. Mm-hmm.
00:09:36
Speaker
What was your experience with modesty and purity rhetoric as an adolescent? I have to try and remember. Cause I know you did not come up in as strict of a household as I did. so me mainly cause I know like your mother wouldn't have really imposed serious rules on you or maybe she did at some point, but she wouldn't have been like consistent about it from what I understand.
00:10:07
Speaker
But like, because you were technically like active in the church, like, did you run into any issues with, from like church leaders, for example, or a friend's parents or anything like that? Like, did you, like, what, what was your interactions with these standards being like, you know, enforced?
00:10:29
Speaker
Well, I mean, I guess I, You know, when you grow up in the church, you learn the standards just by going. And then I wasn't always in charge of buying my own clothing, which I'm sure, you know, as you're when you're a kid, your parents probably bought your clothing and stuff.
00:10:49
Speaker
Right. So as I got to adolescence, I never really had a particular need or want to dress before.
00:11:01
Speaker
in a less modest way. Like you never, like, I mean, was that just because like, that wasn't really what the trends were at the time or like, you just didn't care.
00:11:14
Speaker
don't know. I, I didn't, I guess trends, trends had something to do with it. Like, cause I, if I think about the kids in my high school and how they dress and stuff, everyone was pretty modest.
00:11:28
Speaker
It's just, you know, like seeing big butts and low cut tops on, you know, MTV was relatively new. You know, the, the amount of skin that's shown in like, you know, videos, music videos was kind of shocking. And like, I don't know if it was just me, but I feel like it was pretty much a shift in cultural norms with like the way the videos portrayed women and stuff. But I didn't really know anybody that was, that would wanted to dress like super, you know, immodest.
00:12:06
Speaker
Um, so i don't know.
Fashion Choices and Personal Style
00:12:10
Speaker
I like sweaters and jeans and I like t-shirts and jeans. And I mean, back in high school, I probably didn't wear that many t-shirts because I don't know, t-shirts weren't as big of a standard of clothing, like normal, like everyday wear.
00:12:25
Speaker
so maybe more buttoned down shirts and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. long sleeve button-down shirts that were like you know more girly blouses sweatshirts is what they tend to be kind of yeah they weren't blouses when i was a nah they didn't really call them that when i was a teenager but um only if it was more like fancy yeah then it was a blouse that makes sense um sweatshirts and there was like there was like this store i'm trying to remember the name the brand name of this store that was at the mall that sold these high-end trendy like sweatshirt and sweat pant like tracksuits no
00:13:15
Speaker
Tracksuits are those nylon type materials. who I don't like those. Like the thing is they can be, but also like when I was in high school, the thing that got really popular were the Juicy Couture tracksuits.
00:13:29
Speaker
They literally called them tracksuits. But like, do you, did you ever notice those? Cause you were not ah a teen by that time. i Yeah, I think I did. They said juicy on the butt.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah, and they were, like, all velvet. And it was always, like, matching pants and then, like, the sweatshirt. But it was, like, the zippy zip-up hoodie that was always, like, super tight. Yeah.
00:13:54
Speaker
And, yeah you know, girls, like, that was the trend was to wear, like, the Juicy Couture, like, matching pants and sweatshirt with, like, the, you know, like, a lacy white tank top underneath and like uggs
00:14:13
Speaker
so funny yeah but those they called them tracksuits right right okay so that wasn't that wasn't a thing when i was um yeah no when when you think of tracksuits you probably think of like the old The ones that Oldman wear.
00:14:28
Speaker
any Anything that looks like it's made out of nylon windbreaker material. Right. That has a jacket and pants. That match. yeah That match.
00:14:39
Speaker
That was a tracksuit to me. And it wasn't vulve velvet. It was that nylon, like almost shiny looking shit. Right. I am trying to find the brand name because it was like they had their own store in the mall and everything. Right.
00:14:53
Speaker
But it was like, I don't know how to describe it. That's the problem. use said Okay, but you were saying like matching top and bottoms? It was made out of sweatshirt material. It was all different colors and they had a lot of pastel looking colors.
00:15:07
Speaker
Sweatsuits. Yes. Sweatshirt material, tops and bottoms. weren't standard sweatshirt cuts and sweat pant cuts. Like they had like different design, like slightly different designing to them. like That's weird. If that makes sense.
00:15:23
Speaker
yeah that's very weird that was a thing when i was growing up like a trend but like yeah sort away yeah but you said you were thinking like it's not it wasn't necessarily immodest like as yeah mean they might have had like skirts that were sort of mini like shorter don i you know kneecap length um but basically speaking there there weren't a lot of trends that were like immodest right there might have been some sort of midriff showing stuff but like I don't know I just wasn't into that stuff um so so all that to say you probably didn't run into issues no and the whole thing was that I bought into the the modesty thing and I and i was alright with it and like
00:16:20
Speaker
I never felt a need to like break that because I i was comfortable being covered up and in not showing skin, you know?
00:16:32
Speaker
So I never had an issue. i will tell you though, when I got into my early twenties and started going to clubs, I had wore like my first fricking corset top that made my boobs like stick up under my chin, you know, like that whole like high, I know that I looked good and I wasn't insecure about it, but it was very strange to have people um like looking at me more than I ever noticed before. Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
But yeah. Yeah. and But of course i was in that, you know, at that age, it's like, I'm not under the rule of my parents anymore. So. Right.
00:17:15
Speaker
And like, also though, i feel like it's going to be, or it would be ah dramatically different response from you if we were to only focus on purity culture.
00:17:31
Speaker
Right. Because mean, like to me, they're like definitely intermingled because of the fact that like the rhetoric, the like doctrine that was taught was very much. So like, if you are an immodest girl, then you make young men think impure thoughts about you or in general, just impure thoughts.
00:17:54
Speaker
And if you are ever touched or assaulted, right in the view of the church, you you take the blame for that if you were wearing something that modest.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yep. Yep. So regardless of me not having an issue with modesty standards like for clothing, i was going to say i had some thoughts about that earlier. Yeah.
00:18:26
Speaker
And I remembered the brand name. The brand name was called I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly. O-C-A-T-A-N or Aucaton. Can you spell it? Yeah. a u space C-O-T-O-N.
00:18:42
Speaker
So I don't know if it's a French spelling or whatever, but. Yeah, it is French. Yeah. in In high school, we just called it O-C-A-T-A-N.
00:18:54
Speaker
um So yeah, the thoughts that I was having about the modesty standards how they can impact people and stuff. When you have modesty standards, like really high, high standards.
00:19:10
Speaker
um Or strict, really. strict Yeah. Cause it's like, it's a little different cause it's like high in my, and I don't need to necessarily, this is not, this is maybe stupid, but thinking of high standards just makes me think of like,
00:19:28
Speaker
something having a having a higher quality yeah but like yeah there was nothing higher quality about the the standards of the Mormon church exactly yeah I know I knew where you were going yeah like it's yeah yeah yeah so like anyway so the more strict the the the standards are for clothing and like you know obviously there are other religions that are way more strict than Mormon but um
00:19:59
Speaker
it it basically makes the body completely taboo. And that is so unhealthy because, I mean, I'm sure people have had these conversations and everybody is going to already know what I'm about to say.
00:20:13
Speaker
But yeah it's like the more taboo something is, the more of ah an obsession it can become to other people. yeah So it's like, They're creating the problem by making girls cover up and then boys just get more and more curious.
00:20:30
Speaker
And then, you then they may not have as much control over themselves because the obsession of, you know, needing to know or wanting to see just can overtake them and they don't make great choices.
00:20:45
Speaker
So there's that. And then there was another thing I remember, Back when I was a teenager, my stepdad who raised me told me ah story that I never found out whether it was true or not, but it sounded legit.
00:21:02
Speaker
So I took his word for it. But if you go back to the Holocaust and you're looking at families of Jewish people and what they did to them and they, heard,
00:21:18
Speaker
I heard, i don't know, I don't remember reading this anywhere, like, history book-wise, etc., that they made the family strip down in front of each other, like, take all their clothes off.
00:21:30
Speaker
And then I think maybe as they were walking them to the gas chamber, I don't know, but like, they were, like, making them strip down naked in front of each other, and it caused, like, so much shame embarrassment that it, like, dehumanized them more, you know,
00:21:48
Speaker
Because they're all in front of each other. Like fan whole families. dad Dads and daughters. Mothers and sons. You know what I'm saying? Where are you going with this? I'm about to explain.
00:22:00
Speaker
I was like, what so why would he talk about this? Okay, I don't know why it ever came up. Like what was going on. I think he was trying to make it sound like it should be normal for families to be naked around each other. Because...
00:22:16
Speaker
This is what happened after the Holocaust, Jewish families, from what I understand, and I could be completely wrong, but I'm kind of trying to remember what he said to me. And this is what I remember.
00:22:28
Speaker
Um, that they just started to be able to be nude around each other, around their households on a regular basis so that nothing like that could ever make them feel dehumanized again.
00:22:41
Speaker
So it just became a norm for those people in those families to start being nude around each other. And it was no longer taboo. You know what I'm saying?
00:22:53
Speaker
So it helped to take the taboo weirdness out of nudity. And that may or may not be a completely healthy way to look at living with family family members. But I don't think that naked bodies should be so taboo.
00:23:15
Speaker
You know? Yes. a I had heard about the Holocaust portion of what you were saying. And know that that's a thing that happened.
00:23:27
Speaker
But I don't, I have never heard the point he made before. And like, regardless, I agree with you. Like, it shouldn't be something that's shamed.
00:23:40
Speaker
Especially, well especially among family That should, you know, be, I don't know. i don't know what I'm trying to say. Cause like, I was trying to say, especially around family that shouldn't, that this should be the last people to make you ever feel shame about anything.
00:24:00
Speaker
But at the same time, like, I don't know. i have such a, I think I was just too fucked of a perception about family. Think about,
00:24:12
Speaker
How embarrassing it would be for a teenage girl to have to be naked in front of her brother or father. No, you don't have to. No, listen. You don't have to convince. You do not have to convince me of that.
00:24:24
Speaker
Okay. You do not have to convince me of that. It's not about It's just about... it's such an embarrassing situation. Like, you know, like, and it is, it was for a purpose, obviously, but that's what I mean. It's not like, it's not like they would make you feel ashamed of yourself, but it's just.
00:24:40
Speaker
ah No, but like at the same time, but I think what I'm trying to say is that like my family made me feel nothing but shame all the time. Right. And so I'm like, yeah, families, you shouldn't feel shame around your families for anything because they, they're supposed to support you and love you. But like, that's not what I, that's not what I experienced.
00:24:57
Speaker
Right. So I'm just like, I don't know. I really do have a hard time divorcing my own experiences from like how things should be or what might be normal.
00:25:10
Speaker
But anyway, the ah thing that you were saying, though, about modesty standards being the reason why are have too much of a curiosity.
00:25:25
Speaker
Like it exacerbates their curiosity yeah about bodies in general. i agree. But like a step further beyond that, like that I was thinking of as you were talking was, and this is not an original thought, but like very much boys really just shouldn't be taught that it's not their responsibility to have you know, good, clean thoughts.
00:25:53
Speaker
Hold on. I did a double negative there. Yeah. I'm kind of like, wait a minute. I think that's opposite of what you mean. I think I did a double negative and I got myself all turned around.
00:26:07
Speaker
Boys are effectively being taught that they are not responsible for their own impure thoughts. And the same, like simultaneously girls are taught If a boy has an impure thought about you, it's your fault.
00:26:23
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. And that is not how either gender should be raised, should have ever been raised. Like the way that I was raised to be taught, like if I wear spaghetti straps around the house, my brothers are going to think impure thoughts.
00:26:42
Speaker
Which is absolutely gross. It's fucking bullshit. It's bullshit and gross. Absolutely. Boys are never going to, 98% of the time or whatever, boys are never going to look at their sister in a sexual way. I mean, but also they should be told that they shouldn't be looking at any woman or girl related to them or not.
00:27:07
Speaker
And think lascivious thoughts or, Be like, hey if you're having those thoughts, that's your fault.
00:27:16
Speaker
you Get your mind right. her Like. Yeah.
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah. No, it's so fucked. It's so fucked. And. I think it's, I think it's, this is like less of the main point, but I think it honestly falls in line with the thought of like, these are simply rules designed to control you, designed to control you and your life.
00:27:44
Speaker
No doubt about that. Yeah.
Modesty as Control: Critiques and Hypocrisy
00:27:47
Speaker
Like I talked about um when I mentioned anarchist calisthenics. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:56
Speaker
And the way that um and like ah like dress codes were... like one of those things, modesty standards, especially modesty standards imposed by a religion who really is not veiling any tactics to control you. They're just straight up doing it. And they're not even like being secretive about it.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah. There's no, your eternal salvation depends on this. who You know, it's like how much more gas lady can they get? Right.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah. And then to flip the script, though. Yeah, now they've gone and loosened up all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've even taken the sleeves off of garments. Which is insane.
00:28:42
Speaker
For all you non-Mormons out there, those of the that's the magic underwear.
00:28:48
Speaker
As of, like, November of last year, apparently, they took the cap sleeves off women's garment tops. Yep. and They're like wide tank tops now.
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, why? And they do and they don't even like release a statement about it. It's all like, oh, we're just going to slide this rule, the changes to this rule under the door and not say anything.
00:29:17
Speaker
So here, this is different now. Yeah. I mean, it's not like the top part of your arm is like explicitly sexy. Oh. of a woman's arm oh ah no oh honey oh honey have you not heard the fucking conference talk that was given by some fuck twat whose name i don't remember but has like 17 middle initials
00:29:45
Speaker
Some egg-headed douche canoe.
00:29:51
Speaker
Going on worldwide television to speak to all Mormons and to say that girls, when you wear a shirt that has no sleeves, you are walking pornography. Yeah, bullshit.
00:30:07
Speaker
I don't know one person who ever thought that the top part of a woman's arm was so fucking sexy. Because it's too close to the side boob. That's why. Whatever. As soon as you can see some shoulder, you can also see a tiny, tiny bit of boob.
00:30:24
Speaker
i I usually would just see armpit. And that isn't sexy to me. Sorry. Let's get to know that you don't think armpits are sexy. hit You're a normal person. It's just bit. Just kidding. We don't kink shame on this podcast.
00:30:40
Speaker
Unrelated. Did you know that Mormons at BYU have had an or have in the past had an outbreak of armpit grabs? Ew. Why? yeah
00:30:53
Speaker
ah yeah Repression. That's we're talking about period, period culture, purity. culture
00:31:02
Speaker
We're talking about pureity purity. Purity periods.
00:31:08
Speaker
purity periods purity Period.
00:31:15
Speaker
Period. Period. no. Okay, wait. What were you saying? Armpit crabs. Armpit crabs. Wait a second.
00:31:25
Speaker
Are these girls not shaving their pits in school, in college, at BYU, or what? You don't get crabs if you if you don't have hair, from what I understand. I mean, I wouldn't fucking know because I never had them. Well, boys don't shave their pits.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah, but why would they get the crabs in their pits? Because gay gave repression also exists. Well, I understand that. But I would think that that wouldn't be as prevalent.
00:31:52
Speaker
I don't know. As girls getting better. Maybe they're not shaving their pits. And who cares? The crabs happened still.
00:32:02
Speaker
Oh, God. then You're asking the wrong questions, Christina. That is the stupidest shit I have ever heard in my life. Almost as stupid as fucking soaking. Ew.
00:32:13
Speaker
Ew. Ew. Tell me this guy that I knew BYU thought it was a better solution to have anal sex as a workaround.
00:32:31
Speaker
Okay, wait. I might be able to one-up you. oh no. i don't I don't want to be one-upped, but go ahead. This is the direction this conversation is going. ah First of all, let me tell you that I never heard of any of these things until like the last handful of years.
00:32:52
Speaker
like you know like the last Like these past handful of years or yes the last handful of years before you went inactive? No, I never heard of any of that stuff before. Okay, so this is what I mean. Like you were so not...
00:33:05
Speaker
like really actually Mormon. Michigan Mormons are not that prevalent. Unless they are sometimes somewhere in some of the other parts of Michigan. i don't know.
00:33:16
Speaker
I don't know either, but like not in the Southeast part of Michigan. Well, mean, you wouldn't expect Northern Virginia Mormons where Northern Virginia is Democrat as opposed to the rest of the country. you know And there's a lot of like Democrat Republicans.
00:33:34
Speaker
What the fuck? Democrat Mormons. like of Northern Virginia. in Northern Virginia. but okay And yet the congregations that I grew up in and around were like, apparently a little bit strict in a North or strictly Orthodox.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think you're saying the literal opposite of what I mean. is rily or Like, including the democratic ones. No, like the community is where the Democrats were.
00:34:06
Speaker
Admittedly, that's not like the most democratic Mormon population. Like you want to get democratic Mormons go to Boston. You want, you want to get like the Mormons that are actually atheists go to Boston.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah. What? It's because they're all like smart. They're all what you that? smart there are like so they're all just they're all just what do you call that Pimo.
00:34:32
Speaker
P-I-M-O. Physically in. No. Physically in, mentally out. I guess. So like they go because their families pressure them too, but they don't believe it. Oh no, no, no. That's Pimo.
00:34:45
Speaker
This is the thing is that like Mormons in Boston, they don't go because anybody pressures them too. If they're atheists, then why do they go? um I wish I could answer that question, frankly.
00:34:57
Speaker
it's just, you get like all the smartest Mormons in one place. And unfortunately, usually the smartest Mormons are also the ones who realize that it's not true. So I don't understand why they would go. It's, it's in my opinion, it's like, it's like, I mean, like there's like physically and mentally out where you're like checked out. And then there's physically and mentally out where you're like,
00:35:21
Speaker
still active. Like you still actually like, they do it for the community. they They do it for the community. They do it for the intellectual debates. Like I said, it's a bit of an an anomaly ah in Boston.
00:35:34
Speaker
like And what I mean by... They're not there to just be like, yeah, we're going to sing all like sing all the same hymns and spat all the same rhetoric that we've been told without actually having you know discussed and and gone deep into you know philosophical discussions about it. like It's just not that way in Boston, in the church.
00:35:57
Speaker
And so, like, clarification... When I say they're doing it for the community, I don't mean they're doing it for the betterment of the community. I mean that they're doing it because they like the community. no that's I understood. yeah I know. I want to clarify that for other people. Yeah, yeah. and case Because, like, that's, like, the most of the time when I've heard, like, people, like, say that they've stopped believing, they'll say, like, yeah, I don't really believe it anymore, but i I like the community, so I'm going to stay.
00:36:25
Speaker
And I never understood that. Right. I'm like, the community literally checks up on you about what you're wearing and who you're fucking. So like, why do you need people's noses in your business like that? I would rather have like-minded friends as my community.
00:36:43
Speaker
Yeah. And frankly, you know if you don't believe the people you're in the community with are not like-minded. So yeah exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:54
Speaker
Excuse in my sniffles. I don't know if we got off track here a little bit. Not really. I mean, kind of. I mean, like purity. So like, that's what I'm, I guess what I mean is like, you never know to back up to where you were talking about, like Michigan Mormons being way less strict or whatever. oh yeah. yeah i Like you really can never predict where those like super strict Orthodox Mormon clusters are going to pop up.
00:37:22
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's just the right people need to move into a community and suddenly everybody starts emulating them, you know, like, oh, this person like follows all these rules. Like, let's do that.
00:37:34
Speaker
It's like, even if they're not like the leader of the, you know, community or of the congregation, you know, what do you think it's like a social cultural thing as much as as what I'm trying to say. Yeah, and that makes sense.
00:37:46
Speaker
But I don't know if this is, you know, unique to my area, but because of, like, the big three auto companies being nearby, there was a lot.
00:37:58
Speaker
and And the fact that we have, like... A military base. I don't know if if every state has a military base. I think there are military bases everywhere. There probably are. i think it's i think it more that I think more relevant than a military base would be just the fact that it's Detroit.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah. So like the Detroit area, we were like, you know, my ward that I grew up in was near Detroit, but not actually in Detroit. But yeah. There was always, there were always new families moving in and moving out like all the time.
00:38:31
Speaker
So like you were saying, like, you know, you never know if like that one set of people happened to move into the area and everybody starts emulating them. Well, I don't know because people moved in and out. So gosh darn.
00:38:45
Speaker
Well, right. But like maybe they were, well, that here's the thing. Maybe they were moving in and moving out so fast that they didn't have a chance to like settle in and influence any, of anything. True.
00:38:56
Speaker
like Because it's like whether or not they spend like, you know, so five years, ten years, short short of time, like actually interacting with their community, their congregation that they're with. Like, you know, there's it depends. It depends on like.
00:39:14
Speaker
a whole host of factors, but like those people, some people could be strict, but settle into a community and not actually like have any influence on like what the culture is like there.
00:39:25
Speaker
And another person could have the same for five years and have like tons and tons of influence. Yeah. So you just happen to have an area where like at the very least, even if they weren't strict, they weren't influencing anybody else.
00:39:40
Speaker
Right.
Modesty Standards: Trauma and Evolution
00:39:41
Speaker
Whereas my own family and like, at least ah handful of and other strict families in the congregation really painted a very strange filter over my like entire existence until I was 18 years old. And even, even beyond that, because it took me until like what last fall or like just a few months ago, whenever realize that like Mormons aren't all like that.
00:40:13
Speaker
Right. And like, you know, I was, I was mostly lamenting because of like the changes and modesty standards that have occurred and, and observations I've had with my own younger sister, not facing the consequences i faced for breaking the same rules that she's breaking.
00:40:34
Speaker
Right. I know. I know. And like all of that and just being like, what changed? Why is the church suddenly so Yeah. And it had to be pointed out to me that like most, like the general population of Mormons don't actually care that much, which I can't.
00:40:57
Speaker
It's so ingrained in my DNA, a the way it was hammered into my psyche growing up repeatedly that like to be Mormon is to be unquestioningly the following of all of the rules and not caring What the world was doing around them.
00:41:18
Speaker
Exactly. And that's like ah the identity of a Mormon is to be that way. Mm hmm. be in the world, but not of the world. Oh God.
00:41:30
Speaker
And so it's like so hard for me to, to wrap my head around the fact that that's never been the truth. Even though I felt like it was preached that way from like, you know, the, the church leaders.
00:41:43
Speaker
It was like, are we not all hearing the same message? you know i I mean, you know, when you, when you bring up the modesty standards changing in the last couple of years or three years or whatever,
00:41:55
Speaker
Um, I, I feel like because they, they've been losing membership. Yeah. but And then they're so trying to remain relevant and yeah, they're trying not to like or ostracize or like, yeah, they're trying to walk some stuff back to not be so far outside the norm of like the world.
00:42:18
Speaker
Right. To the point that, and again, I've really not even heard any confirmation of this, but I have heard that like they're starting to be cool with crosses. Oh my God. Yeah. And that, that one annoys me. You'd like really, really bad.
00:42:34
Speaker
Oh, it always bothered me that those were like taboo all the time. You know, I was like, why? It's like a, it's like a nice universal symbol. True. Um, but like what I was taught and you probably have heard this or I know it. I know exactly what you're going to say.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But say it anyway that we the reason that we don't use crosses is because we don't want to be reminded of the the death of Jesus. We just want to focus on his life. like you know Or the resurrection.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah. That's what I was taught, yeah. If your, your like family member was shot and killed with, by a handgun, you're not going to wear a handgun. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like a, it's like a, yeah.
00:43:25
Speaker
It's the reminder of the death. Yeah. They focus on the resurrection.
Religious Symbols and Teachings
00:43:30
Speaker
to Yes, his life or his resurrection. Oh, I know. It was only resurrection for us. don't want specific, like, the cause of death hanging around your neck as a constant reminder. And it's kind of like a downer.
00:43:44
Speaker
You know? yeah so that was what I was kind of taught. and I thought that was perfectly reasonable and acceptable. And it's like, okay, so that's why we don't use crosses. and Yeah.
00:43:55
Speaker
I like, here's, here's my thing. And I don't know if this is more so just the way that I, ah the way that my mind works where i'm like, question everything question authority like rules don't make sense so don't believe them or just get on board with them you know that kind of thing i with the explanation of we don't focus on jesus's death we focus on his resurrection i remember hearing or hearing that and thinking to myself like okay fine but like why do you have to get like
00:44:29
Speaker
strict about it what if a mormon girl does want to wear a cross necklace why why does it have to be a rule that she can't or that it's taboo that she did i mean and the the fact that he died for our sins is driven into our skulls you know, her yeah died for our sins, but then we're not allowed to acknowledge a cross.
00:44:54
Speaker
Right. like He died for our sins. The death is the whole point. Really? Right. If you believe that, Yeah, exactly.
00:45:06
Speaker
Which, like, I was kind of almost getting at, and it was not entirely relevant, but, like, I was going to get at it. was, like, also the fact that, like, people don't, in this day and age, apparently, and I'm not, this is not all Christians, so, okay.
00:45:19
Speaker
But, like, the way that we keep hearing about, like, people going to church now and hearing about literal Christ-like behavior and being like, y'all, they're too liberal for me, you know?
00:45:30
Speaker
And so, like, yeah now people... don't seem to even want to focus on his life because they think about his life as being socialist. Holy shit. You guys, Jesus was a socialist.
00:45:46
Speaker
Big shocker. Yep. He was a fucking socialist. Jesus wanted to help the poor and the needy. and he didn't, he didn't ignore them. Make them go to work.
00:45:58
Speaker
Yeah. Not force them to go to work, you know, to pay back something or whatever. It's like, Yeah. He was never better than anybody else. Yeah. He looks at everyone as his equal.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah. So these pseudo Christian people who think they're like shit doesn't stink. And so everybody should follow exactly what they think is right.
00:46:23
Speaker
Don't even really believe in actual Christianity. Right. It's so freaking stupid. And we have gotten a little off topic. Just a tiny, just a tiny itty bitty bit. bit We've gotten off topic.
00:46:34
Speaker
But like. It's infuriating. It's really infuriating. The whole thing. And it's like, modesty and purity culture is not exclusive to like religion because it also permeates like regular society where like I was listening to a podcast. I can't remember which one last night. And it was stated that like 100% of times women who, you know, commit violence or, or kill someone in self-defense will be put in jail
00:47:08
Speaker
And like women who get pregnant after an assault will be denied health care and a right to choose for themselves in culture. This is outside of religion as a whole. This is what our world looks like now.
00:47:27
Speaker
Yeah. Everything is a woman's fault. Yeah, they blame it on like ah a woman must not be pure for whatever XYZ reason that they think is most relevant
Purity Culture Beyond Religion
00:47:39
Speaker
and therefore has no worth, has no value, shouldn't be cared for.
00:47:44
Speaker
Bullshit. It's all bullshit. Yeah. It really, it really, really makes me angry. Yeah. I mean, last week's episode made you angry. This week's episode is doing the same thing.
00:47:57
Speaker
Oh my God. it's, oh yeah.
00:48:04
Speaker
It's control. Yep. It's all about control. Control over your life by way of what you can do with your body. either how you dress or what you actually do with it.
00:48:21
Speaker
And control over your mind in a way. do you get When you get to something so intense as sexuality, human sexuality, to control that aspect of human life does like actual mental and emotional damage.
00:48:41
Speaker
No matter what sexual orientation you may have no matter whether you're like more or less horny, you know, like no matter who you are, repression on curiosity, experimentation, experiences at all.
00:49:07
Speaker
Like normal. I mean, normal curiosity, like normal, normal curiosity, experimentation. Yeah. It doesn't even have to go to like kink. You know, I'm just talking about, you know, adolescents getting hormones for the first time there. It's natural.
00:49:25
Speaker
my God. Teens are going to fuck you guys. No matter what you say about it or do about it, they're going to find a way to fuck. It's the whole reason that Christina and I even are here right now is because the teens are going to fuck.
00:49:42
Speaker
Oh God. Teens will always find a way to fuck.
00:49:50
Speaker
It's so normal. And it's not only normal, it's healthy. I don't know. i don't know. don't know. No, curiosity is healthy. Oh, yeah. Experimentation with your own body is healthy. With other people who are safe and good is healthy.
00:50:06
Speaker
Like, these things are healthy in the the development of a human being. Yeah, i just I just feel like saying that teen sex is healthy is maybe not exactly where I'm feeling it, but like...
00:50:21
Speaker
It's not exactly the message I want to put out there either. It's like, you know, we're not, we're not here saying, Hey, teenagers that listen to us, go have sex. Don't don't listen to your parents. Please leave me.
00:50:33
Speaker
That is not what we're saying. So not what we're saying, but it is so extremely healthy and normal for you to have curiosity and want to experiment.
00:50:43
Speaker
Yep. yeah And to repress not only the physical action or an acting of on those impulses and urges, not only repressing that, but repressing the way that you think about it.
00:50:56
Speaker
The way that you feel about it. Right. Don't be curious. <unk>t Then you end up with 35-year-olds who can't like have sex with a person that loves them without feeling like they're breaking all the rules.
00:51:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah you don't You don't repress that shit. You don't grow up right. Right. You don't develop right. Like, if that shit gets, like, stamped down, especially if there is actually curiosity there. If a teen is not interested, don I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but, like, if they're interested, they should not be shamed and, like, silenced from asking questions.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, TikTok literally was how I learned about the trauma about our, about our religion.
00:51:52
Speaker
i mean, I didn't know there was so much trauma around purity culture and all that other stuff. I didn't know because I i never felt traumatized by it.
00:52:05
Speaker
I just like, I was comfortable dressing modestly and I didn't have a problem with that. And then you know, shit in my life sucked. So I got curious and ended up experimenting with a boy a little too much.
00:52:22
Speaker
But like, that was just, I always felt like I was just that an individual, like, you know, anomaly. But that's the thing is that like, i I feel like I would have had the same mentality if nobody had literally like screamed at my face otherwise. Yeah.
00:52:40
Speaker
that i might That I might just be like, oh my body is my body and it doesn't make me evil. And it doesn't make me wrong and bad to to have these feelings or to do these things or to want to dress like, you know, wearing short shorts and a tank top.
00:52:53
Speaker
I got screamed it in my face, but it wasn't until I got pregnant that that happened. That's what I mean I was like sneaking around. no I get it. I get it. Yeah.
00:53:04
Speaker
But nobody, nobody made you feel terrible for things that you weren't doing. anyway or you know right demanded or in just like insisted over and over again that an interest in porn is like the worst addiction but like worse than like heroin you know or to have sex outside of marriage is a sin next to death Yeah, that's really fucked up.
00:53:35
Speaker
And this is what was hammered into me, as well as everything about your body is like a threat to men's and boys purity. and you have to cover it up. And if you don't, it's your fault if they falter. yeah How did we have such dramatically different experiences in the church?
00:53:56
Speaker
It boggles my mind. I don't know. I mean... Were you trying to push the boundaries with your clothing as a young teen? Okay. Yeah. So, but it was like, no, was the thing is that's not the thing that made me push boundaries.
00:54:13
Speaker
I pushed boundaries because I wanted to. Because like, to wear short shorts doesn't make me a bad person. And then was berated and screamed at and punished for for breaking the rules that I that i knew were rules.
00:54:28
Speaker
But I was like, these are stupid rules. And it shouldn't matter.
00:54:35
Speaker
so it's like, what I knew I had the right the right message and the right feeling and attitude about it. I'm not saying you didn't. Until was traumatized. Right.
00:54:46
Speaker
But it like stayed. I never ended up like I always had the desire. And it's just a part of my nature. It's part of who I am to break rules and push boundaries. I'm an Aries rising.
00:54:56
Speaker
But like, but like the point being, like, that, urge that interest and that urge never went away, no matter how much I got screamed and yelled at. But it also didn't make me feel good in general, you know?
00:55:12
Speaker
What didn't make you feel good in general? Oh, all the berating, all the, all the punishment. Well, yeah, it shouldn't. It shouldn't have. It's like it, it developed this just like strange, complex, complex trauma, complex trauma around it.
00:55:27
Speaker
Cause it's like, I still like to dress scantily, as you know, um I still like to, but I also have horrible, horrible feelings about my own body. Hmm.
00:55:39
Speaker
And particular, i think that it it also went in the direction of, you know, really intensely feeling like, like my body wasn't attractive enough to be looked at anyway. And so as with my own, you know, sexual activity, like I've, I've developed this complex of being like, you know what?
00:55:58
Speaker
I'm going to prove to you that it doesn't matter and break the rules to prove ah a point to myself that is contrary to the thing that traumatized me or to prove them wrong either way.
00:56:10
Speaker
But this is what I mean is like I had the same the mentality that you did around like modesty not being a big deal because what, you know, it doesn't it shouldn't matter. And like, you know, not really having like a problem with anybody's choices, whether it was modest or not.
00:56:29
Speaker
But I was constantly told I was wrong for that. And it didn't change my behavior, but it sure changed the way that I feel about my own like intuition and my own instincts and moral compass.
00:56:42
Speaker
And if that's how it was for me, i can't even imagine how many other people, whether they're ex-Mormons now or still in the church, how how many other people had that same experience as me, now have the same trauma as me.
00:57:03
Speaker
I'm only glad that it did not take me long to get the fuck out after i left home for the first time. Went out on my own to become tiny baby adult.
00:57:19
Speaker
It took me less than two years. Really, like a year and a half. Yeah, and and I never questioned anything. i never felt like... anything I was learning was, was crazy or unbelievable, you know, to a point where I should be questioning stuff.
00:57:38
Speaker
Right. Like, i think that if you had had people like being more forceful about what you were and were not allowed to do, whether you were still a teen or in your early twenties or whatever, like during the whole time that you were active in the church, you didn't have people like point, like pulling you aside and like having a problem, you know?
00:58:00
Speaker
Like if you had those experiences, no matter what you were wearing, you probably would have ended up with a little more of a closer end result to what I've, what I've got.
00:58:12
Speaker
So it's like, you know, and that's, i I don't know how much of that was circumstantial versus the fact that, yeah, you really didn't wear much immodest stuff when you were young. Cause that wasn't what you were interested in wearing.
00:58:23
Speaker
Like, i don't know how much of it was that versus just like, you know, you just um sort of got lucky with having the right kind of people around you.
00:58:34
Speaker
uh, not, I'm not talking about your family because I the family was actually are the wrong kind of people. Very problematic, but like more like youth leaders and stuff is what I mean. you know, our friends, parents who were in the church or whatever.
00:58:46
Speaker
although yes i right i guess I guess I would look at it like I found a way to express myself through fashion without being immodest.
00:58:57
Speaker
And I liked the clothing that I picked that uniquely expressed me. uniquely expressed yeah So. Yeah. That makes sense.
00:59:08
Speaker
I liked highly tailored things. Yeah. Like, so they were, they fit me correctly and like looked really put together in some ways.
00:59:20
Speaker
Yeah. That kind of stuff. Yeah. um The only thing that I would think that might have gotten any kind of like negative attention is like a pencil skirt, right? Because it, it hugs your curves.
00:59:37
Speaker
And I had curves. I had a butt, you know, and hips and stuff. And like very shapely that in that area where it's like, if I wore a pencil skirt, it might draw attention to my figure.
00:59:51
Speaker
Yeah. but Like I wasn't exposing skin. i wasn't wearing short things or like low cut things. Yeah. But a skirt might have been, considered slightly and it was never skin tight stuff but it was just because of the kind of figure i had that you know yeah and imagine those type of things might have drawn attention yeah and nobody said anything to me you know yeah yeah yeah um in that same vein though like I don't know how much you have run across this because ah clearly it wasn't your experience.
01:00:24
Speaker
Uh, but also like you didn't know about modesty trauma until recently, but like, right. The, the number of complaints I've heard from women who have huge chests who are being told they're expected to like practically wear a shirt with a collar all the way up around their neck to avoid showing too much cleavage.
01:00:46
Speaker
Mm hmm. When it's like literally, it's literally just the shape of my body. Yeah. And I remember. It's not how skin is being shown. And I read into that too. i don't even have huge boobs necessarily.
01:01:01
Speaker
But I've been told, like, and I'm just wearing like a normal amount of chest showing in a shirt. I've been told that my shirts are always too low cut and I'm showing too much cleavage. All the time.
01:01:14
Speaker
I remember a couple of larger chested women in my church that wore dresses that were absolutely acceptable, but their cleavage came up higher because of their boob size.
01:01:27
Speaker
And it was like... You know, I remember noticing that, but like never feeling like it was shameful or. Right. Or inappropriate. That's what I mean. Like it's, you know, it, whether actually, cause this wasn't those experiences of being told, like, you know, I've got too much cleave. We're not exclusive to the church. Like it's been like pointed out to me in like school environments and and work environments.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah. as well you know outside of the church um where it's just like culturally looked at like you know a woman with a larger body or or larger proportions or a simply are more immodest by wearing the exact same outfit that a woman that's like a size four yeah has.
01:02:21
Speaker
Yeah. Like it has nothing to do with the actual physical clothing. It's everything to do with the figure, the body shape.
01:02:30
Speaker
Yeah. I know we talked about that another time. um I mean, I don't think maybe yeah um the podcast necessarily, but like together. Yeah. Where women who are larger wearing the same outfit as another woman who's thinner yeah Like people would describe her as looking vulgar or something like that.
01:02:50
Speaker
Right. It was like that kind of terminology where it's like, yeah, they're just, they're wearing the same exact outfit. It's just a larger sized person. yeah You know, wearing the size that she's supposed to wear, but because she has curves and looks, you know, yeah, whatever, more voluptuous and whatnot.
01:03:11
Speaker
that's considered way more vulgar than like a stick figure woman that's wearing the same exact outfit. It's really fucked up. Yeah. No, it is really, really fucked up. It really is You're right.
01:03:23
Speaker
But yeah, then, then I get married and I've, you know, I'm with a man who like wants to see cleavage, wants to see me wearing stuff that would show cleavage.
01:03:36
Speaker
And I felt like, weird about it like you know ah because yeah it wouldn't wouldn't be that it would be because he's seeing it it's because we're in public and anyone can see it like everyone can see it and like wearing that kind of stuff to make him happy is exposing me to like the whole public like everyone can see my cleavage not just my husband you know so that was a little weird for me Um, for a while. And then I feel like I got to a point where I didn't care anymore.
01:04:11
Speaker
Finally, somehow. And, and I don't, but I just don't really wait. I don't really own a lot of stuff that's like that because my size right now, clothes don't fit me the way I want them to fit me. So I'm not comfortable wearing things like that.
01:04:29
Speaker
hmm. But if I had stuff tailored, then, you know, if I actually paid to have stuff tailored to me, then maybe. But I don't know. There's just not a lot out there for me that I feel comfortable or confident wearing because of my size.
01:04:43
Speaker
Yeah. And that's me. That's just me. But, um you know. I understand it, too. um and Somehow it hasn't stifled the impulse to be a hoe.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yeah. For you? Yeah, yeah for me. Because it's like, you know, while I have basically the opposite experience, I still get what you mean in terms of feeling weird about it with the with the size and shape of my body.
01:05:13
Speaker
Like, you know, just being like, man, i um I don't look the way that i i wish that I did. You know? Or clothes don't look the way I wish that they looked on me.
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah. Like, it's just like the, the image, even with the same article of clothing, with the image I had in my head of how this would look is incongruent to reality. of And, yeah and, and yet, I don't know. Cause like my favorite going out dress of the last like a few years has been that one that I wore to the Colts concert in 2022.
01:05:50
Speaker
you remember? yeah You remember how much skin that showed? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's my favorite going out dress. but i went out When I went out to Temazkala last year for my birthday, like, that's the dress I wore.
01:06:04
Speaker
Because that's what I like. And I don't care. Unless it's, like, a situation, like, court.
01:06:13
Speaker
Court. It, like, shouldn't matter. you know, how much skin I'm showing in a public space. As long as I'm warm enough, I'm fine. You know, you know, so like restaurants or concerts or, you know, festivals or, or fairs or, um, wherever out in public, like to wear that low of a, of a, it's not okay.
01:06:41
Speaker
Neckline. That's the word. Jesus. How did I forget that? To wear that low of a neckline that it's like halfway to my belly button. and be totally fine and yet have this like weird shame at the same time ah like i could certainly i know i i could look better than i do it doesn't make sense but two things can be true at once yeah maybe we should change the name of our podcast and it should just be two things can be true at once but you mean this episode or the podcast the name of our show
01:07:15
Speaker
Because that's all we keep saying every time try to make a point. Yeah. Things can be true at once. Yeah, I mean, no, I can, see I know exactly what you mean. Like, if it's clothing that you like, because it's cool as hell, it's like a cool design, or it's whatever. I know that, like, regardless of how insecure I feel about my body, when I'm wearing it, I know that I'm cool as hell.
01:07:39
Speaker
i know that people are looking to be like, damn, that outfit's cool as hell, you know? And I like that. It's like, no matter how, like, it it's almost like, yes, I think it's cool, but that's not the point. The point is that everybody else thinks that it's cool, too.
01:07:53
Speaker
who You know? Yeah. I think that was kind of like how I felt when I wore like that corset tank top. Yeah.
01:08:05
Speaker
It's like, because you know, you have some corsets that are like completely strapless, but yeah these were, I liked the tank top style. I liked the way it looked. Oh yeah. Yeah. But um that, those drew attention. Well, you got a nicer rack than I do.
01:08:21
Speaker
So yeah. But I didn't then. I was like, I'm bigger now than I was then. But but you've always, funny I mean, like, I guess ah it makes you look flat. Right. Except for on the top.
01:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. They push you down. So you're flat, but they're puffing Yeah. The top of the corset. And right. That's what draws like the looks, you know? yeah Yeah. Yeah. But it was funny because I was dating this guy and his friend came out with us to, to go dancing that weekend. Yeah.
01:08:54
Speaker
And he kept staring at me. Steve was going to deck him i thought ah He came up to me and he was just like, you look really good. there Whatever.
01:09:08
Speaker
oh my God. Gross. Yeah. He was gross. That guy was gross. Well, so was my ex, but still. Yeah. all men are gross that's what we should name our podcast all men are gross
01:09:26
Speaker
oh my god oh i would i would still wear corset top like that if i could find one that fit me right i would wear it and that wasn't like three hundred dollars right right yeah because the one that i found skinny privilege sorry go ahead
01:09:48
Speaker
There was, oh my God. but The first one that I ever wore was like from hot Topic or something like that. And it wasn't a true corset.
Body Shape, Fashion, and Confidence
01:09:59
Speaker
But it was snug and it had some like boning in it, but they it wasn't like super like high quality, you know, boning and stuff like that. And the back had a zipper.
01:10:11
Speaker
But then I, then I got like, I went to a lingerie store sort of like Lover's Lane. If you've heard of Lover's Lane. Yeah, I know. I know. Okay. okay Listen, I'm a slut in this duo here.
01:10:24
Speaker
So I know the lingerie and the sex shop names. I know. Okay. So, but this one was called Priscilla's. Okay. It wasn't lover's lane, but it was called Priscilla's and it was little bit more so scandalous, maybe a little bit more ok naughty, but um they had a rack of those corset tops, like a whole rack of them.
01:10:47
Speaker
And I found one that was so fricking gorgeous. It was like, Oh, Oh, It had panels of silver and black.
01:11:01
Speaker
And the silver part had like black floral embroidery in it or something like that. And it it was a true corset. It had like the the hook and eye, you know.
01:11:14
Speaker
dealio plus the back had the lacing like the you know all the way and uh that one was so freaking cool that one was probably in the 60 or 70 dollar range maybe i don't remember for sure but i don't think i spent over 100 bucks for that yeah well in this day and age corsets are yeah corsets are like triple that but Yeah. And that's probably high quality ones, but like, well, yeah, but like also the the thing that I was going to say was when I was going to say skinny privilege,
01:11:51
Speaker
it's always the larger sized clothing items, especially specialty ones like corsets that end up being the more expensive. And so I was saying skinny privilege is getting to pay completely reasonable prices for straight sizing.
01:12:08
Speaker
That's not available. Like, it's, it's like... It's, like, sure, I could find a... Yeah, I could find, like, a dupe of the same thing in a plus-size, you know, size run.
01:12:21
Speaker
And it'd be, like, significantly more expensive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So... and This is why I need to learn how to sew. la la yeah Make my own shit. No, I've actually daydreamed of...
01:12:40
Speaker
um outfits that i want to make and i bought a bunch of cool material from joanne's last year because i really was actually planning on doing it i was gonna design my own shit i was gonna say good thing you did because you won't be able to ever again joanne's oh no yeah Yeah, it was like Halloween stuff, Halloween stuff, you know, materials.
01:13:08
Speaker
Maybe one day I will actually do that when I have time. Yeah. I'm looking forward to getting introduced to a good tailor in the area.
01:13:20
Speaker
Ooh, yeah, you have a whole thing. thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I haven't heard much about that lately. You have to fill me in. Oh, there's no, there's nothing to fill in. I haven't still haven't my next appointment.
01:13:33
Speaker
Okay. Okay. I need to finish cleaning out my closet and I've been at like 30% of progress on that for, you know, two months now. So there's no time limit though, right?
01:13:47
Speaker
There's no time limit. Um, but I don't want to let, I don't want to leave it for too long. Right. So I got to get on it at some point. I got to, you know what I got to do is just like message her make and make it, make my next appointment and then have that be my deadline.
01:14:01
Speaker
Good plan. And I will tell her like, Hey, I'm still in the middle of this, but I need to, I need to move on. Like I need to have the next thing. Yeah. i Move to the next phase.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah. And so, you know, not be like, I'm not going to be ready by the next time we meet, but to be like, Yeah, I'm in the middle of this, but like, let's plan this so that I can just have motivation to finish it.
01:14:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Break, get around my executive functioning problems.
01:14:34
Speaker
But yeah.
01:14:38
Speaker
In conclusion. Modest is not hottest.
01:14:45
Speaker
That was always the phrase when I was younger. Like when I was, I guess in my teen years, but also in college at BYU. but car is Modest is hottest.
01:14:57
Speaker
Whatever. fuck i never heard that shit. Oh, God. Oh my god. oh you know what? Modest should be a person's choice. Just like you had.
01:15:09
Speaker
You liked it, so you chose it. That's fine. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. What were you about to say? We never went back to the soaking situation. never went back to all of that. And I was going to tell you what I ah what i heard somebody tell me that I was like, I'm going to one-up you.
01:15:29
Speaker
shit. You were talking about the anal. Oh, that's right. Don't want my kid. Yeah. to hear if you if you see him coming tell me i will tell you yeah lean away like you know keep it yeah the chair needs to be pointed that direction so i can yeah have the full view so there there was a girl who moved here to this area from utah And needed a roommate.
01:15:56
Speaker
And this was like a long, long time ago. i was in my mid twenties. And so she moved in with me and she told me, cause she was like dating this guy from you know, she was in the singles ward and she was dating a guy that was from the area.
01:16:12
Speaker
I never knew him before I met her though. And he was also Mormon and he convinced her that if they stand up and he does it from behind with her bent over, that it's not considered intercourse.
01:16:30
Speaker
Even though he penetrated her. That was not considered intercourse. And I looked at her like she was fucking growing a third eyeball out of her face. Wait, was she, was she, okay. She believed it.
01:16:42
Speaker
She was telling you they did it And then she's like, yeah. What I was saying is the the differentiation between, was she like still believing it or had she been told that and believed it for a bit, but then realized that it was bullshit? No, no. I am pretty sure she still believed it at that moment. And so I was looking at her like. This is the problem. You're an alien. What?
01:17:06
Speaker
That's called sex. I don't care how you freaking, what position you do it in. It is intercourse. So she thought she was still a virgin. Oh my God.
01:17:21
Speaker
Yes! There's no education. Dude, so... is This is why we have to know. She was from Utah. And I just looked at her like, are you insane? Are you okay? What the fuck?
01:17:37
Speaker
Dude. Oh my god. yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. No fucking common sense. The naivety is so sad, honestly. very sad.
01:17:47
Speaker
wow And that... Also, i heard that women, before they get married, go to their gynecologist and the gynecologist gives them tools to help stretch their opening.
01:18:06
Speaker
So oh yeah that sex is not painful or whatever. I'm just like, what? I never heard of that shit before either. oh yeah. Yeah. yeah Like how would they know if they have never had sex before, whether it would be painful the first time or not?
01:18:22
Speaker
You know, why are you using these tools? Because they don't ah assume the woman is going to have arousal. oh God. Did you just realize that?
Sexual Education and Misconceptions
01:18:34
Speaker
Oh. Did you just realize that? They were just naive enough to not know that they would accommodate it. Like, 90% of the time, the body can accommodate. Because the culture, whether it's in the church or not Perpetuates that women are not experiencing pleasure and arousal where the body adjusts and accommodates.
01:19:03
Speaker
Because they're not supposed to Because women can't have anything.
01:19:12
Speaker
Women are nothing. God. God. They're not supposed to. And potentially older women that this young woman knows maybe he never have.
01:19:25
Speaker
Like literally they are going to their gynecologists and the gynecologists are telling them this. That is what blew my mind. Outside of, yeah, outside of the church. But it's in the church. It's in multiple churches.
01:19:39
Speaker
Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much weirdness that is going on behind closed doors with this church that I never knew until after I left.
01:19:53
Speaker
Yeah. just like, what the fuck, dude? Yeah. That's insane. Like, I know my mom and stepdad were renting porn from the local video store.
01:20:06
Speaker
Oh, that's right. You told me about that. Yeah. They, and they, they thought they had it hidden. It was up on top of the refrigerator. They went out one time for a date and I saw Debbie does Dallas up on top the refrigerator.
01:20:19
Speaker
god And I was like, what is that shit? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. I put it in there and you know, I watched it. Good girl.
01:20:34
Speaker
Yep. o I'm always pro getting horny.
Media Evolution and Accessibility
01:20:40
Speaker
There was all kinds of weird, like, sex stuff on cable late at night. Yeah. Oh, that was my favorite time of night.
01:20:51
Speaker
Not that I was, couldn't watch the TV in the middle of the night, but, like, at my friend's house, like... At stakeholders and stuff?
01:21:01
Speaker
We get to watch whatever we want. That's awesome. Oh my god, it was the best. Wow, dude. Oh my god. You know what i remember? this is so funny.
01:21:14
Speaker
and Maybe a little bit off topic, but it's still on topic. ok Back in the day, back when cable television was first invented, and I think I was around seven or eight years old,
01:21:27
Speaker
Like maybe it wasn't first invented, but it was like literally first coming into my life, you know, and and we were low income. So I don't know how we afforded that, but they love to talk about what the cable box looked like. It was insane. Okay.
01:21:45
Speaker
okay It was just like weird, weird little square box with all these buttons across the top and like say three rows, yeah three long rows of buttons that were numbered.
01:21:56
Speaker
And if you wanted the top row, you had to flip the little dial to the top position. And then if you wanted the middle row, you had to flip it to the middle position. And then if you wanted the bottom row, you had to flip it down all the way to the bottom. So like you had to do that and then select the button of the channel if you wanted. Okay.
01:22:16
Speaker
But I remember that two of the... cable station names that were like the new one when i was first getting cable oh one like you know how you have hbo and cinemax yeah there's some other ones that i can't remember right now but like those type of things back then it was it and um So IT t is in the channel was called it. And the other channel was called on.
01:22:45
Speaker
Yeah. It was two. So late at night. Yeah. That, ah that i remember. And that, or that we paid for. yeah um But that's so weird. Cause I remember. There might've been more than that, but I don't know. Cause like, I remember my ex talking about growing up where his parents didn't pay for cable.
01:23:05
Speaker
So they only got three channels.
01:23:08
Speaker
Did he remember what they were called? No. Well, one of them was probably PBS, but like he only got three channels and, but it's like, you could pay and have like, you know, a hundred channels or a thousand channels, but you were paying for only two channels or were they not paying for cable?
01:23:29
Speaker
Like, is that like, is that how it started where you had to pay to only get two channels? Yeah. Well, I don't know because I never asked my mother back then, but I know like cable.
01:23:43
Speaker
i mean, you had your standard channels, like normal channels that you would have the rabbit your antennas to get, you know? Yeah. You didn't have cable for like the local channels.
01:23:53
Speaker
Those were... Yeah, the local channels were... Included. Included. Yeah, like but like by default. Yeah. and And MTV was part of the cable system. Okay.
01:24:05
Speaker
Cause that was when it was brand new and like 1982 or whatever it was when i was like seven. And, um, the two cable channels that she paid for, which I don't know if more than those two existed or not, but I remember that those were the first two I ever heard of as a kid.
01:24:24
Speaker
No, it oh on and and on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Those two. And I don't know why I always remember the name of those stupid channels, but like, well, they're so easy. They're pretty easy to remember.
01:24:35
Speaker
But yeah, I mean that, and then there was MTV and I don't really remember if there were any other ones, but anyway, my point was late at night when i think you might've had to pay extra. No, there was no, I think there was a Playboy one.
01:24:54
Speaker
oh I think I think, That must have been another one that you would have pay for, but we didn't obviously pay for that. But like late at night, you could like put that channel on and it would be like scrambled.
01:25:10
Speaker
So basically you could still kind of see images, but it would be like... you know like you like the weird like you know what i'm saying like the whole thing would have these crazy wavy lines through it and shit and be all staticky and weird and but you could still see like naked boobs and stuff and in the middle of the night like just late at night I don't think at any time. I think it was like, it only came on at night or something. Oh, but you could. Like after 8 PM or after 10 PM. sorry
01:25:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You could flip it on and still see stuff. Like it would be all like scrambled and fuzzy and weird. i remember that. So I was like seven or eight and I was looking at that.
01:25:52
Speaker
Oh my god It's so weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's so weird. The evolution of. tv and cable over the years you know so strange yeah now we got porn in our pockets ah yeah like on demand at the drop of a dime yep crazy yeah and free yeah free as long as you're paying for internet shit right oh crazy wild well so well friends
01:26:29
Speaker
purity culture is damaging and yeah ridiculous you're once again if you're feeling some uh anger rising up uh emote that shit process it out of your body by feeling it have an office space moment
01:26:50
Speaker
go beat some shit up with a bat oh my god i'd love to go to a rage room That would be fun. Yeah. We should do it someday. We should invent our own.
01:27:02
Speaker
Once we have our commune.
01:27:06
Speaker
ah like have it were like We could like charge people to come in and use it. oh You know what I mean? As a business. No, I don't care about that shit.
01:27:18
Speaker
You want everything as a business. he What are you, Elon Musk? Multiple streams of income, man. That's the way that you got to do it, especially these days. oh my God. Anyway.
01:27:30
Speaker
anyway
01:27:33
Speaker
Rage Against the Machine. oh my god. i saw something recently that was like, just, well, I can't remember what the post was, but I remember just the comments about Rage Against the Machine being like, I don't know why these these venues and these shows keep booking Rage Against the Machine and thinking that maybe this time they're not going to Rage Against the Machine.
01:28:01
Speaker
Like dial back your performance, boys. Okay. Whatever. And then, fuck you! Don't you tell
01:28:13
Speaker
Once again, because it feels like 500 years ago now, we're going to remind you that we got a Patreon.
01:28:20
Speaker
And you should go and follow it if you'd like to support us in our antics.
Promoting the Podcast and Social Media Presence
01:28:27
Speaker
And also, you get pretty damn good benefits out of it, frankly. Yeah, dude. Yeah. So go check it out. We would love for you to check it out and be there with us there too.
01:28:40
Speaker
Don't be a sourpuss. Subscribe to our pickly tears. Oh my God.
01:28:51
Speaker
That was so weird, but I understood it. I sound so dumb. Because I understood it, it felt ham-fisted, but nobody else understands it, so it's not ham-fisted. What does that even mean?
01:29:02
Speaker
You don't know what ham-fisted means? No. It's basically the opposite of being subtle. Okay. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway.
01:29:17
Speaker
Go check out our Patreon and you'll understand what Christina said.
01:29:23
Speaker
oh my God. Yes. And we also have an Instagram. Christina, tell them what the Instagram is. Do it now. Do it now. Do it now. Do it now. Soulpod the podcast at Instagram.com.
01:29:36
Speaker
I don't know.
01:29:41
Speaker
I don't know. What do you mean? Tell them what our Instagram is. well What is it? ah Podcast. Instagram.
01:29:55
Speaker
know know what an Instagram handle is, you idiot. Come I don't know.
01:30:04
Speaker
I'm almost 50 years old. Give me a break. At SoulPod the podcast. Oh, yeah. Okay.
01:30:13
Speaker
You're unbelievable. Do you know our email?
01:30:19
Speaker
ah Soulpodthepodcast at gmail.com. Good. You better know the email. Soulpodthepodcast at instagram.com.
01:30:31
Speaker
Oh, shit. Shit, shit, shit. My bad. Oh, my God.
01:30:41
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway. ah and those are the only social medias we do. We don't have a Facebook page because fuck Facebook. Even though that I know that they're also owned by Meta, which is also who owns Instagram.
01:30:55
Speaker
I don't care. um we turn We certainly don't have a Twitter because fuck Elon Musk. um ah Fuck X. And Elon Musk.
01:31:08
Speaker
Maybe we'll get a Blue Sky. Although I have a personal Blue Sky. I don't know.
01:31:43
Speaker
No! Help me get out of this episode!
01:31:51
Speaker
Get naked and fuck.
01:31:56
Speaker
Should that be what the title of the episode is? Oh my god, dude. I don't know.
Nostalgic Songs and Episode Close
01:32:05
Speaker
oh my god dude so love so
01:32:14
Speaker
Oh my God. I found the board post. found the post. I found the post. Oh yeah. This is awesome. I just sent it to you. Okay. I'm good. Bye. Bye people.
01:32:25
Speaker
Get naked and fuck.
01:32:31
Speaker
isn it you
01:32:35
Speaker
Listening to you laugh is making me laugh more. Wait, wait.
01:32:46
Speaker
There was a song that was like that song that was like get butt naked in pocket or something like yeah there was there was i'm gonna find that song now oh my god you know i think it's like yeah you know you know it Well, no.
01:33:13
Speaker
know the one that I always loved when I was a kid? What? It's getting hot in here. So take off all your clothes.
01:33:27
Speaker
All
01:33:32
Speaker
right. That's the end of the episode.