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Ep. 19: Trusting the Timing: Living With a Stammer in Your Teens
110 Plays4 years ago
Callum Schofield said his own name for the first time at the age of 18 without stuttering. He spent his childhood and teenage years without a voice, which he says had a massive impact on his mental health.
Callum is now a podcast host, motivational speaker and stammering activist raising awareness of the needs of children (and adults) with a stammer. He also advocates for male mental health on his blog and YouTube channel.
Where to get help with a stammer
In our chat, Callum talked about the two organisations that helped him gain control of his speech. He says that every stammerer is different, but these are the organisations he found help from:
- The Starfish Project - for help with the physical aspects of stammering
- Stop Holding Back - works on improving the mindset of someone with a stammer to help them achieve more in life
Where to connect with Callum
Advice for parents on stammering
This is honestly one of the loveliest pieces of advice I've had on the podcast. Callum says "Trust the timing." When his mother tried to help him as a younger child, it just didn't work. It would have been easy to despair, but she persisted in supporting her son, and when the time felt right for Callum, he got the help he needed.
I know this advice to work well for smaller parenting dilemmas too, especially with teenagers.
More teen mental health resources
There are lots more episodes of the Teenage Kicks podcast – do have a browse and see if I’ve covered anything else you might find useful. And if you have a suggestion of something you’d like to see talked about on the podcast please do email me on [email protected] I have loads more fabulous guests coming up to help families navigate some of the most complicated – but wonderful – teenage parenting years. I’ve also got some posts on the blog that might help parents with other teenage parenting dilemmas, so do pop over to Actually Mummy if you fancy a read.
Thank you so much for listening! Subscribe now to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear all my new episodes. I'll be talking to some fabulous guests about difficult things that happened to them as teenagers - including losing a parent, becoming a young carer, and being hospitalised with mental health problems - and how they overcame things to move on with their lives.
I'd love it if you'd rate and review the podcast on iTunes too - it would really help other people to find it. You can also find more from me on parenting teenagers on my blog Actually Mummy, and on Instagram and Twitter @iamhelenwills.
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Transcript
Callum's Childhood Memories
00:00:00
Speaker
I would be in the toilets and some laughs would come in and they wouldn't let me leave until I said my name.
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome to the Teenage Kicks podcast where we take the fear out of parenting or becoming a teenager. I am so impressed with today's guest and I think you will be too.
Callum's Transformation
00:00:22
Speaker
Here's why. At the age of 18, Callum said his own name without stuttering for the first time. He'd spent his childhood and teenage years without a voice and had inevitably developed mental health issues as a result.
00:00:38
Speaker
He says his social life was non-existent and life was looking pretty bleak. That was until he decided to take control and change his future. He says the boy who couldn't speak is now a podcast host, motivational speaker and stammering activist. He advocates for improved mental health for men, something that as the mother of a teenage boy feels overlooked to me and hugely important.
00:01:08
Speaker
So Callum, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me here and thank you for that introduction. It's quite humbling listening to that and thinking how far I've actually come. Yeah, yeah. I honestly cannot imagine what you have been through until the age of 18. When I read that on your bio, I got goosebumps, so I can't imagine how it feels for you.
00:01:32
Speaker
I'm going to dive right in and ask you, sorry about this question if it's a tough one, but stammering activist.
Raising Awareness on Stammering
00:01:39
Speaker
That is a great job title. Tell me a little bit about what you do there.
00:01:45
Speaker
Well, basically, I just work to raise awareness of stammering as unfortunately, it's something that's overlooked, something that's not really known. And as a result of that, compared to other disabilities, other differences, stammering is very much a target for jokes, insults, verbal abuse, and no one bats an eyelid about it really.
00:02:12
Speaker
as if someone was for example marking someone in a wheelchair they would be outraged but it seems normalized to mark someone with a stammer and after growing up through 18 years of struggles with a stammer I thought it's time to actually do something use my voice
00:02:31
Speaker
and try and raise awareness so that's what I do really whether that's through podcasts, writing social media or just talking really the best way to raise awareness for stammering is talking so that's sort of what a stamming activist is for me really. Yeah use your voice I love that after not having used it presumably for such a long time.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah it was a long time coming you could say as you know having a stammer having a stutter it put me off any speaking situation like something as simple as going out for food going to a restaurant I would either make up excuses why I couldn't go or I would be very anxious very nervous throughout the whole experience when I had to place my order I would either excuse myself and get someone else to order for me
00:03:19
Speaker
and you know what when you're 18 and you've got your mother ordering your food for you that's not a good luck so it was a challenge.
Reflections on Childhood Challenges
00:03:27
Speaker
No I can just imagine that in Nando's. Yeah oh my goodness so tell us a little bit about your life growing up you've talked about how you've always had a summer um do you remember anything about how it began or just was it just always there?
00:03:47
Speaker
Well, that's a tricky one, as I want to say it was always there. And I know it developed between the ages of two and four, I think, somewhere on there, maybe five. But I don't have any memories of not stammering as such. Even when I think of memories of school, it's of me blocking of me stammering. And I don't necessarily know if I was at the time or whether I just think I was.
00:04:11
Speaker
a few times I thought I met him I thought was I actually stammering then or was I or do I just assume I was to make it worse so yeah I think well no one knows the real cause of stamina either which makes it worse there's so many unanswered questions but basically it's a they say it's a neurological condition I don't perfectly think it is because I can talk fine now and if it was neurological then
00:04:39
Speaker
there wouldn't be so much variation of stammering, personally, but that's my opinion. But it was a developmental issue at the time, which resulted in getting more severe, you could say, the older I got. So, yeah, overall, I don't have any memories of not stammering, even though I might not have been stammering at the time, if that makes sense.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah totally, so there was nothing traumatic in your childhood, what was your family like? How was life growing up generally? A pretty normal family, like my parents did split up when I was a child but it wasn't a big thing, it wasn't a bad experience or anything, you know there's always bumps in the road as they say but nothing stands out as this traumatised me or anything like that, it was just
School Bullying and Isolation
00:05:26
Speaker
I used to condemn myself as a pretty normal childhood. I was still, despite my stammer, I was still a happy child. I was still enjoying myself. And obviously when you're a young child, you don't see yourself as that different.
00:05:45
Speaker
No, no. I didn't really see the stammer so much as an issue until I got to the end of primary school, secondary school because that's when you start to notice that you are that bit different in a negative way as I always knew I was the only one who stammered in my bubble you could say. Only when you get older you start to think of the negative connotations of that really. I was going to ask actually when did it become a problem for you? What sort of age were you?
00:06:15
Speaker
probably say about around 8 or 10 maybe 9 or 10 I remember actually doing things like answering the register at school. I would always block quite badly when I was right at the end of primary school and certain speaking situations I remember blocking badly and because they were my first memories of blocking badly
00:06:37
Speaker
Then I think after the first time I started, I noticed that it's more serious than I thought. And then going into secondary school, you're surrounded by loads of new people. And as you know, when there's new people who see you as different and don't really know why, then you will get a bit more stick.
00:06:52
Speaker
really yeah and it's all in hindsight really as in primary school i remember there was times when i would be in the toilets and some labs would come in and they wouldn't let me leave until i said my name until they got me to say words like crocodile i thought that's one memory that
00:07:09
Speaker
I always remember they're trying to make me say things and only a couple of months ago it actually clicked that it clicked what was going on as at the time I just was a bit confused I thought why are they asking me to say this but I was sort of oblivious of what was going on and I kind of blocked that from my mind subconsciously until a few months ago when it just came back out with a blue I was literally in bed middle of the night and it popped back into my head I thought
00:07:35
Speaker
I've subconsciously moved that away from my mind because whenever I would go to the toilets I would get, they wouldn't let me leave until I started in front of them, they all had a good laugh and yeah that was quite, that was hard just a few months ago thinking that actually happened and why it happened really so everything's very much in hindsight for me you know at the time I was in in the moment you could say not really realizing but now I look back it's yeah that was a lot more serious than I thought
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's full on bullying. I feel a bit emotional about that, because that's a horrible thing to do. But you didn't feel it as bullying at the time? You felt OK? Or did it hurt you? I think at the time, I did feel a bit intimidated. I did feel a bit like I don't really like the situation, but I didn't put two and two together. I didn't think
00:08:31
Speaker
I remember thinking, this one lad was the ringleader, why did he keep asking me my name? Why did he keep forgetting my name? Because I thought he always asked me, I was happy to say things. I thought, what's he doing this for? So at the time, I think because I had quite a positive childhood, I wasn't really looking for anything bad. I was thinking that I missed his intentions, you could say. I didn't think he'd have bad intentions. Right.
00:09:00
Speaker
And only now looking back, realizing that Em and his gang were sort of in the toilet, stopping me from leaving until I said a list of words I would always stutter on. But it's actually, yeah. So at the time, I didn't really enjoy the situation, of course, but I don't think anything more of it than someone just asking me to say if it works. And did you have friends at primary school?
Understanding the Stammer
00:09:22
Speaker
yeah like the older I got I had mates and I was more social, but I was on my own for quite a lot of primary school for the first few years. For a few years of the junior school so year three year four I think that's coming the exactly but I had the odd friend, but I was.
00:09:42
Speaker
At the time, again, I was very much happy in my own company. I was very much happy on my own. I wouldn't put myself out there to speak. I don't know whether that was because I was, again, subconsciously worried or anything, but I can't remember ever feeling upset that I was on my own for part of primary school reading. As I got older, year five, year six, coming to the end, I did have mates. I was a lot more social again.
00:10:08
Speaker
I still, I know that the main theme throughout my life really has been holding back through school, through social activities, whatever it is, I've always held back, whether that's subconsciously or consciously, holding back has been a thing that's been prominent. And I think even without realizing in primary school, I was holding back a lot. So actually, how bad was it? Because I'm listening to you speak now, and I've heard you speak on podcasts before.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know if I didn't know. So how bad was it back then? It wasn't incredibly severe. It was very temperamental. It was always there. There would never be a sense that I didn't stutter or stammer, at least a little bit on a word. It wasn't incredibly severe like some, but that's not saying it didn't have an impact on me, as I hate that when, for example, when educating Yorkshire came out with
00:11:07
Speaker
Musharraf had a very severe stammer. I had a lot of people saying to me that, what am I worrying about? He did a lot worse than me. And that just made me feel a bit like, oh, so I'm not really, I'm making a big fuss over nothing. Even though it wasn't very severe, speaking to friends was okay. I would block.
00:11:25
Speaker
say a third of the time, half of the time maybe, but anything outside of friends and family, so speaking to strangers, speaking in school, speaking in work, it would be pretty severe. I would either not speak at all or I wouldn't be able to get that first word out, that second word out.
00:11:43
Speaker
And of course I couldn't say my name, I couldn't say my address, I couldn't say where I was from. I remember I went to watch the football at Warsaw, they got family from the Midlands. People were asking me where I was from and I couldn't say Wales. So I tried saying South Wales and I couldn't say South. And it's just, it was very situational as much as it was constant. Any situation where I was caught upon to speak really outside of immediate family and friends, I would really struggle and I would just
00:12:13
Speaker
go to pieces with my speech, really. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess in those situations, you, you, anyone feels a bit nervous and actually anyone stutters and stammers a little bit. It's really, really normal. It just was worse for you. I've heard you say that it's not about being stressed. It is a problem. It's an inherent problem.
00:12:37
Speaker
And that people telling you just to breathe and calm down and just relax, it'll be fine, isn't helpful. And I totally get that. But do you think that in those moments, because those are stressful situations anyway, that might have made it worse? Yeah, definitely is. Now that I've got more control over my speech, you know, I still stam every now and again, you know, there's no cure, don't get me wrong, but
00:13:04
Speaker
At the times, I think the panic and the worry, the fear of stuttering was a very massive factor, the fear of stuttering, the fear of people's reactions.
00:13:15
Speaker
And I think that played a major part as back then, I still did step there when I was happy. It was no time I didn't really step there except on one holiday in Bulgaria when I was in sentry school. I was in Bulgaria for a week and my speech was brilliant. I have no idea why or what caused it, but my speech was really good. Amazing. Yeah, so that was a...
00:13:42
Speaker
I think with anything, not just a stammer, you always had a little moment where you don't really know why it's happening, but it's just happened really, but definitely the mental side of it caused me to stammer more than the stammer itself. Now if I get stressed and of any strong emotions really, I can tell my speech is a bit more wobbly, you could say. I'm not sure that's the best word to describe it, but
00:14:10
Speaker
negative emotions do bring out more stammering because you're not thinking about your speech really. You think about something that's worrying you and that's putting pressure on you and putting those negative emotions on you and everything's interlinked. It's a mind body thing in my opinion. It's all connected really.
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah. And it's pretty subconscious, right? I mean, my nervous responses are to, I don't bite my nails, but I chew my, I chew my cuticles. And I remember my mum from a very young age, just smacking my hand out of my, just trying to stop me, but she didn't want me carrying that into adulthood. And here I am still today, especially when I'm getting ready for a podcast. I always get nervous for a podcast chat until I'm in it. And then I'm chatting and it's fine.
00:14:56
Speaker
But, you know, here I am today listening to you talk about anxiety and I'm picking up my fingers. It's horrible, but it's subconscious. I don't realise I'm doing it until someone makes me think about it. Yeah, absolutely is.
00:15:12
Speaker
At times, even before I went on a speech course last year and sort of changed my life, you know, some of my closest friends would say that they never heard me
Support and Relationships
00:15:23
Speaker
stammer. And I said that was because with them, I was putting on this front, I was
00:15:29
Speaker
acting confident, but the minute you took me out of that situation, the minute you brought in anyone else into that situation, any stranger like ordering food, going to McDonald's, whatever it was, the minute an outside factor comes in that little bubble, my speech would go to pot, literally it would. So unevenly hearing me maybe stammer at the start, it was again subconscious, so I didn't
00:15:55
Speaker
I was the worst covert in the world. You're covert stammers who hide it and you can't tell the stammer and then you got over it were very obvious. And I tried so hard to be a covert. I would swap words, I would not speak, but I was still so obviously stammering that I always describe myself as the worst covert stammer in the world. Because I would try so hard to hide it
00:16:21
Speaker
that it would be even more obvious, if anything. And that's because of the subconscious. I think if I can swap this word by ear, if I can say this out of this, if I can order what I can say rather than what I want, then it's as easy as that. So that's why a few of my close friends never really hearing me. And because they weren't looking for it, because I didn't talk about it and I would never speak openly about my stomach, even to my family, whenever my mother used to bring it up, I would shut it down instantly.
00:16:50
Speaker
Oh really? I would shut it down instantly but I didn't want to talk about it actually because I was you know you get that embarrassment, you get a bit of shame, you get a lot of shame from it I felt personally. Yeah. So I would shut it down and hide it and because I didn't mention it no one else wanted to mention it either it was the elephant in the room really it was that cat's 22. Yeah I get it yeah that makes total sense.
00:17:14
Speaker
I'll have so many other questions in the back of my head from all of this. Actually, you did have good friends that didn't make you feel different or didn't discriminate against you or tried to make you feel bad. Bully you. I'm trying not to say the word bully, but it is bullying. So you had good friends who didn't bully you.
00:17:36
Speaker
The best friends I've had are the ones I've got now, and they've overcome over the last few years, really. Right. And again, those friendships have got stronger through being open and honest, not just about my staff, but if I'm open and honest about myself and my staff and my insecurities, that encourages other people to be open and honest as well. So it's sort of been a learning curve. The older I've got the,
00:18:02
Speaker
more important because they're more special friends I've had who are willing to support me. They're willing to listen to all my podcasts and stuff like that. It's little things like that, which they don't have to do, but they do. And only in the last 12 months, you could say that I've really developed. I've always had friends, but over the last 12 months, even the last six months, this year is when I've really found the people who I can really rely on. They can rely on me, if that makes sense.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah yeah totally yeah and I do think sometimes you're lucky and your school friends are strong and stay with you for the rest of your life but often well actually you know I think you make new and different friends at different stages in your life and they're important to you for different reasons.
00:18:52
Speaker
So I'm interested in the fact that you say you didn't want to talk about it with your family, with your mum. Did your mum try to get involved and help you? She recognised it as a problem.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I went to speech therapy when I was about three or four, and I went back again when I was 10 or 11. But again, it was the wrong time, really, as I wasn't ready to make the change. I was still too young to see it as what it was. So, yeah, but my mum, she's always been my rock, really, and always asked and always will.
00:19:28
Speaker
I feel bad looking back now, trying to bring up my style and talking about having confidence in myself and I shut it down instantly. If I knew then just talking about debt would have taken a bit of a weight off my shoulder, I should have. But having that family support from my man has definitely been instrumental in, I don't want to call it success, but instrumental in what I'm doing now, really, and how I've got to this point.
00:19:54
Speaker
I call it success. Go for it. You've got a great podcast. As I said before, brilliant website. You may be at the beginning of that journey, but it's absolutely a successful journey from my point of view. From the outside looking in, call it success, I'd say.
00:20:14
Speaker
But I normally ask this question at the end, but I'm going to ask it now because it's relevant. What would you say now that you, and we will talk about how you've overcome this, how you manage it now. What would you say to your mum now about, is there anything else she could have done?
00:20:41
Speaker
or anything she needed to know maybe at that point? That's a great question actually. I'd probably sit there with nothing else I could have done and it's all I think if I could have told her something to know that in time I will talk about death you know in time just trust the timing that's something that
00:21:03
Speaker
I've always said, as I don't have any particular regrets about how I've gone about things, but I know everything has happened, especially since turning my life around, you could say making that change has happened at the right time for me. So I would just say, trust the timing, carry on, and we will talk about it openly one day in the future, but it's just going to take that
00:21:25
Speaker
bit of time and that's the same thing i would say to my to my younger self just do what you want to do obviously i would have liked if i didn't hold back as much but in the end it will be all right because if you want something enough and you work for enough it'll be okay you'll you got to trust the timing really is what i'd say to me and my mother however many years ago we've had those conversations i shut down instantly yeah i think there's something
00:21:54
Speaker
really pivotal about that realisation and I think as parents we just want to fix things and we want to fix it as fast as possible because when something happens with our kids that is painful for them or damaging to them we just want the quickest fix and we are prepared to do anything it takes to get it and so I think
00:22:22
Speaker
I think being able to sit with it and let it develop and progress and eventually resolve with your support is not a natural thing for parents to do at all. So I think that's quite a remarkable piece of advice and I think people will find it very hard to listen to and take on board but
00:22:50
Speaker
It's really important to give, I think.
Seeking Help and Finding Confidence
00:22:53
Speaker
And I agree, you're right. I've seen things in my own family just
00:23:00
Speaker
Develop in a way that I'm not happy with and in time. And this is what I do try to reassure the people who are coming to me with asking for advice with almost teenagers. Because people are so, I say this at the beginning of my podcast usually all the time, people are always scared of their children becoming teenagers because of the media horror stories that you hear.
00:23:24
Speaker
And because, you know, it is a very turbulent time, but I always want to reassure them that, yeah, there will be issues, but as in time, they will all, most of them, resolve on their own, and if not, you'll be able to help get involved and resolve them. So I'm talking a lot now, and this is about you, not me, but I think that's such an important point. Oh yeah, definitely is, yeah.
00:23:48
Speaker
So let's talk about how you did go on to get help and turn things around for yourself. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Well it was when I was ready really. I went on a speech course September 2019
00:24:05
Speaker
And I knew if I went earlier, it wouldn't have worked for me. If I went later, I would have had more doubts about it. So in the build up to it, again, I didn't tell anyone. I remember funny. So I was with my girlfriend at the time and the speech course phoned me about my application. And I told people from the course, we call a starfish project. I told them I was in work, so I couldn't talk. And when my girlfriend at the time asked me, I said, who called? I said, work.
00:24:34
Speaker
I panicked. Luckily, if you didn't notice, I told work. I can't talk with them. I mean, work. But I was trying to hide it so much that...
00:24:41
Speaker
I didn't want to speak to the organizers of the course because if I spoke to them, I would have to sort of admit that my stammer is real, it's affecting me, and I need help. And I think that was something that took me a while to admit, but I'm glad I sort of put, it's not your ego as such, but I put those doubts to one side and actually phoned them back and then applied for the September course and got on it.
00:25:10
Speaker
I think what worked best for me was that I did it all myself. It was in Eastbourne, which is about a four hour drive, four or five hour drive from me in South Wales.
00:25:21
Speaker
I drove down there myself. I stayed there four nights myself and that was really important because it was my life and I was feeling that bit of independence as well. I was doing it on not so much my terms but I knew I was ready and I was doing it for myself. There was no one making me and that was a big difference and that speech course staff project taught me
00:25:44
Speaker
a technique called costal breathing, which is a breathing technique that I don't use all the time, but I use it when I block, I use it before a job interview, for example, before something important. And I use it now and again, but I've used it in this interview just separately, just taking a breath in. And that really, when you use a technique right, it's virtually impossible to start. I remember on the first day of the course,
00:26:13
Speaker
I was working with someone opposite who's, everyone that you work with has been through the course, so they know what it's like, they've all got a start on it. I remember looking in this man's eyes and saying, Calms go field for the first time.
00:26:26
Speaker
And I literally broke down in tears at the minute, I did. Because 18 years, 18 years, and I just said my full name for the first time, and even I get a motion to talk about it now. That's not just your name, it's who you are, it's your identity, it's something that, and it's something that has such a big burden and stigma on me for 18 years, not being able to say it.
00:26:47
Speaker
And I say it for the first time. I can't describe the emotions. I literally can't. And that three-day course did teach me a lot. And I straight after, for four months, I practiced every day. I worked on my speech day and day out to reach where I am now. I went back of January this year. I went back to refresh, but you get lifetime membership. So you can go back as many times as you want. And I actually taught the technique to new people.
00:27:15
Speaker
for people on the course for the first time. Oh, how did that feel? And that felt pretty surreal. It felt pretty surreal being back and being on the opposite side of the room. Yeah. It really did, as one of the organizers called Anne Blight. Anne Blight, she runs it, Anne and David Blight, the most incredible people I've ever met. I remember Anne came up to me and said, do you feel ready? Do you think, you know, she said, well, she wants me to teach new people, am I ready? And I can't say no to that.
00:27:44
Speaker
and just that was a very interesting experience as it felt funny being on the other side I took in a lot more I learned a lot more because I didn't have that anxiety that stress and when I was it did feel like cliche but it felt like I was back home going back on starfish seeing everyone again seeing new people it did feel like I was back home really so that's the speech side of things which honestly changed my life then this year I've been
00:28:14
Speaker
I started getting involved with a charity called Stop Holding Back, which is a personal development charity for people who stammer. And they really helped me with the mindset side of things and the confidence, the mindset, the discipline, the dedication. So Starfish really gave me the voice.
00:28:33
Speaker
then stop holding back gave me the mindset and i just got involved with them by chance and now i'm part of the community i run a morning speech club for them which is every day and again i never expected to get to that point i thought i'd just check out this charity see what they're about and now i'm one of the members who actually runs things and everything so it's
00:28:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny how those things turn out, isn't it? So if I'm understanding it right, the Starfish course was about physical things that you can do to manage a stammer. And then the next project was about developing confidence, but around the stammer. Can you just explain how that works?
00:29:20
Speaker
Well it's all you know the way I think you needed the technique you need the starfish technique for me at least as the foundation but going forward you need to have the confidence to use it as when you speak with a costal breath
00:29:36
Speaker
it is obvious at the start you taking a sharp breath just like this and people think you know why don't want to speak like that so it's having the confidence to use the technique and obviously I've had 18 years of anxiety, insecurities and that mentality of avoiding holding back yeah so I've got the technique to speak but it's actually using it and changing this mindset and changing the mindset is the hardest but most important thing and I think you need some form of
Self-Awareness and Acceptance
00:30:05
Speaker
Technique there first as you can't just wake up one morning say I'm going to speak and we're not going to avoid Because if it was that easy then everyone would do it. Yeah, so really yeah starfish it did teach you about the
00:30:20
Speaker
deeper side of stammering as well is more to it, the mental side. But moving on, stop holding back really helped me sort of put principles into practice, you could say, and actually, and again, what do you do when the technique is not working for you, but there's always times when you're in high pressure, stressful situations that you just can't take that breath in. So what do you do then? And that's what stop holding back really taught me.
00:30:47
Speaker
It's a lot of factors at play really. I'm quite lucky that I've focused on the two main factors and both of them have happened to work for me as not everyone would go on starfish and it'll work for them as we're all different. So I'm just quite lucky that I've somehow always been in the right place at the right time over the last 12 months really.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really common though. I think as you say, when the time is right, the right thing comes along and then it's just noticing that it's time to take advantage of that. I'm interested in actually how did you know, because you're quite specific, had it been a few months earlier it wouldn't have been right, had it been later it wouldn't have been right, how did you know that the time was right? Honestly, again it's a cliche but you just know. I literally just knew as
00:31:37
Speaker
So in my head it was, I'm not ready, I'm not ready, I'm not ready, then something just clicked and I was okay, I'm making this phone call, I'm calling him. And I know that I was, you know, I just turned 18, I was working at McDonald's at the time and I kind of adapted to thinking I'll be stuck there for the rest of my life. So maybe that played a factor, like just finished my A-level, I don't go to university because
00:32:02
Speaker
I wasn't ready. I knew I wasn't ready to take the stammer out of the equation. Mentally, I needed this year to sort myself out a bit, you could say. But I just knew that if I wanted to move forward, if I wanted to do something with my life, I needed to take it in my own hands. And I just knew really, I literally just knew that I was ready at that time. Again, it's all the factors, the maturity level, the independence,
00:32:28
Speaker
mindset, all of them happened to sort of come into play at the same time and that's when I knew I was ready for it really. Yeah, yeah. No, I do get it. I know it doesn't make any sense but it is absolutely true. It's a feeling in your bones, isn't it? Something's just right. Talking about the university side, you've said to me already, you're planning to go to university now
00:32:53
Speaker
Yes, yeah, hopefully in September I'll be going to Leeds back at a steady counseling and mental health and this again came to me out of the blue. I'm thinking what do I want to do? I thought I'm good at talking now, I'm good at listening and I want to help people so counseling and mental health seemed like a no-brainer. It was sort of a light bulb moment of why haven't I thought of this earlier?
00:33:16
Speaker
yeah and that's something I will have done prior to this is I think even though I did get as far as applying and accepting an offer for university last year without having this mindset and this confidence now I will have gone to university again I don't think I would have found excuses found reasons to avoid it find reasons to hide from it because I think
00:33:43
Speaker
Yes, my speech played a massive part, but it was my insecurities and mindset alongside my speech, which would have stopped me. But now I've met some people I'm sharing a flat with. I've been on the phone to them. The first night I met these future flatmates, we ended up on a group call and I didn't have any qualms about it. And I know 12 months ago, I would have probably not even
00:34:09
Speaker
went out looking for my future flatmates until I got to Leeds really so it's just it's these little victories you've got to remember you know I wasn't feeling anxiety about calling them and speaking to them in person and just listening because my stammer doesn't matter to me really yeah as even though I might still stutter I might still stammer
00:34:32
Speaker
I've detached myself emotionally, as even if when we're speaking I have a bad block now. Yes, it might sound a bit funny at the time or whatever, I find it sounds a bit bad at the time, but it's not something that'll upset me, it's not something that I'll be emotionally attached to at all. So I'm glad I've taken this year out because I now want to go to university. I'm really excited about it, which I wasn't before.
00:34:57
Speaker
No, well, then there's no point going at that point. There's no point doing anything that you're not excited about, although that's possibly a dangerous thing to say to teenagers. But yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And it is, I think you said little victories. I absolutely love that. It is cumulative, isn't it? Especially when you've got an anxiety problem and you feel
00:35:19
Speaker
When you were talking about doing speeches, I'm thinking about times that I've done public speaking and each time it gets a little bit easier but I remember the first time, absolutely terrified that people would think I was a complete idiot for even wanting to talk about the thing that I had to talk about.
00:35:40
Speaker
isn't it and it's just it's those it's those moments when actually you look at somebody in the audience and you connect and you can see them smiling and so you just look at them for the whole of the talk and then you come off and everyone everyone claps but then 10 or 15 people queue up to talk to you afterwards and then you know and each time you do that that's one of those small victories that says oh
00:36:04
Speaker
actually I'm all right at this, I can do this and people want me to do this and that's you know that you can only get with experience really can't you? Yeah it's a learning curve and you know it's important to fail as well, it's important to have those setbacks, it's important to have things that don't go to plan because
00:36:23
Speaker
Nowadays, I will analyze my speech, for example, in a situation about why it wasn't as strong then, and put that into practice for the future. I'll think, OK, what else was going on? What was my intentions? What was happening? Was I distracted by something else? Was there anything subconsciously going on? So that's important. And then just to focus on those little victories when you put the principles into practice,
00:36:51
Speaker
For me, the best times I've had, the happiest times, the moment I would treasure are those little moments that you don't even recognize at the time, or just sitting down having a few drinks with your friends and all speaking openly.
00:37:07
Speaker
Just little moments like that where it's just having a Chinese with a family on a Saturday night It was just these little things which might not be seen as victories to other people but to you they they mean everything and I think that's really important and it makes you stay grounded like I'm not saying I would
Building Supportive Networks
00:37:28
Speaker
go off. I think I'm better than anyone, but I'm not like that, but just having no that's security and
00:37:34
Speaker
focusing on the small things. It does help you stay grounded and help you understand a lot more I think. It makes me a better listener for one definitely. Gosh yes I bet it does and I think that's what you say there about the small things and not noticing them at the time is really important. I think
00:37:55
Speaker
That's an advert for taking a little bit of time regularly to just think about what's happened in your life and you know that whole business of gratitude journaling? I know that's a middle-aged thing. My kids would not be interested in any of that but equally
00:38:13
Speaker
Just sitting down, not even writing it down, but just sitting down thinking about your day more analytically as you've described, what was good about today, what didn't work so well and what can I change for that situation going forward. I think that's such a great life strategy for anybody actually.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I encourage you, as when I was going through a pretty rough patch at the start of this year, one of my best friends, well she's my best mate, she said, have you tried writing things down? And she sent me some pictures of sentence starters and things like that. I said, every day, just pick one of them randomly and write whatever it says.
00:38:50
Speaker
and that really helped me and it's bad for having that level of friendship that without a set of thoughts you sent me these stuff that she's been doing these screenshots or pictures of you know sentence start as like you know write 10 things today that made you happy and just it puts everything into perspective and I think more than the activity itself knowing that I had a
00:39:14
Speaker
as support, as my best mate, helped if anything more, really, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think it's vital to have somebody in your life that you know you can rely on and trust.
00:39:31
Speaker
And I guess if you don't have that, if you don't feel you have that as a friend then I guess you turn to your parents. I'm thinking of the kids who are really struggling for friendships because of whatever they've got that is different for them.
00:39:48
Speaker
I guess the hope there is that as you say you just keep going because eventually as you mature you will meet individuals who are right for you. You will find the right time and the right people. Actually that's a really common theme in all my interviews is everybody talks about finding their people and finding their thing as being quite a pivotal moment for them.
00:40:12
Speaker
you know, it will happen and that would be my advice. You know, if you're feeling a bit on your own, there's always someone there, whether that is a family member, whether that's a friend, whether that's a family friend even, you know, I know my mother's best friend, her husband has become one of my mates now really, he's a maker man, you know, we talked about football, I did a bit of work for him before. So it's always people out there and just trust the timing that
00:40:41
Speaker
whatever your interests are, whatever you like, you're not the only one who likes that. And even if you think that now, you will find people in the future, as I've created a new
00:40:52
Speaker
So we could say with people who podcast, for example, we will talk about off camera Pedro Pena. Pedro is a very good friend of mine who I've met through podcasting and I got Franco Taylor who hosts the Waffle Shop podcast. And I never thought I'd be in a podcasting sort of friendship group.
00:41:12
Speaker
either so whatever your interests are even if it might feel like it's only you at the moment you will find people who are interested in that as well even when you least expect it i think and you know don't force anything is what i'd say as i went through times when i was on my own and i did feel a bit bad at times but i always had a bit of self belief that it will be okay and that's because again of my family because of my
00:41:38
Speaker
the relationship with my mother and having that trust and knowing it will be okay, really. So trust the timing, but it will be all right in the end, really.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah absolutely. I want to just mention Pedro Pena because that's the podcast I listen to you talking and he has a stutter and his presents to an outsider who doesn't understand it, his presents quite differently to yours. I'm going to put him in the show notes as well just as a link too because I think he's really worth listening to. Though he made me laugh when he said
00:42:12
Speaker
that he remembers very clearly when his stutter began. It was because he was attacked by a giant dog. It was a horrible experience, but the way he explained it just made me smile.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, he has that effect. You know, Pedro, when I was setting up my podcast, he was a bit of a mentor to me as well. He probably got fed up with me texting, said, Pedro, what should I do for this? I did send a lot of messages when I was a bit concerned or what to do. He thought the definition of young at heart as well. Yes. He probably listened a bit in our interview when I said, I'm sure you're not that much older than me. I'm sure he's older than my dad in the end, but we are still getting a lot like two mates and the pebbles up there.
00:42:51
Speaker
Well, isn't that one of the revelations of getting a bit older? It doesn't matter what age the person is that you're connecting with, it matters what you have in common. Exactly, yeah.
Ongoing Management and Acceptance
00:43:02
Speaker
I love it. I want to just ask you before we finish, would you give it back if you could? Would you grow up without it?
00:43:13
Speaker
This is going to be an answer that I know will cause eruptions in the Steppin community. But yeah, I would. Okay. I don't have a question. I know now if you offer me a pill, for example, that would get rid of my Steppin completely. Yeah.
00:43:31
Speaker
I would take it now. I would hands down take it because yes I've learned a lot met some brilliant people but the step in I don't need that in my life it doesn't affect me now so it would just be one less thing on your mind really and it's still always there regardless so now I would definitely take it I remember when I was younger I would always wish
00:43:53
Speaker
that I didn't have it. But that's a tricky one. Now I would definitely say, you know, I'd happily never stutter again if you offered it. But looking back, it's hard because if I never stuttered, I wouldn't have met so many incredible people who are some of my best mates now as well. So maybe I would have been, I've always thought, if I didn't stutter, would I be a person who I wouldn't necessarily like now? Would I have
00:44:23
Speaker
be a bit more of the alpha male ego thing, which I don't really like. It's a hard one. But in retrospect, I've always said I would never want my child in the future to have a stammer. Of course.
00:44:36
Speaker
because I wouldn't want anyone to go through what I've been through. So that is a really, really good question. It's a hard one. Sorry. Actually, do you know what I know why you say it's a controversial answer. And but I also understand it and I would give the same answer. My daughter has type one diabetes and it's incredibly hard work. It's
00:44:58
Speaker
incredibly life-changing and it's forever and I always say that it has made her to some extent who she is and she's incredible at a young age and I do believe that that is because of the challenges she's had to face and the things she's had to deal with and
00:45:19
Speaker
Equally, I know that if she could walk into a hospital tomorrow and be cured, or have an implant that would take care of it, she'd do it. Absolutely, she would take it away immediately. Whereas I know a lot of the diabetes community would say definitely not because it has absolutely made me who I am and given me what I've got.
00:45:38
Speaker
I mean, would you have been more of an alpha male? I've got a teenage boy and I can see you grow up to be who you're going to be. So no, it wouldn't have changed who you are. But maybe it would have changed some of the opportunity in your life. The other question I did want to ask is do you manage it now? It's fine now. It doesn't get in the way of your life now.
00:46:06
Speaker
But is it extra work? Is it tiring to live with? Oh yeah, definitely. It's something, it doesn't happen overnight. You've got to work on your speech for a good few years. I'm still very early on in my journey as I'm just coming up to the 12 month mark in September. So that would only be in a year and a year is in turn the working on your speech very early days.
00:46:29
Speaker
So there is, Tyron, you've got to put the effort in, as it's very much you get out what you put in. If you put in 100%, you get 100% doubt. Because I was mentoring this lad, and he was coming to me saying, it's not working, he can't get his speech, his speech is terrible. I said, how much effort are you putting in? He said 30%. I said, if you put 30% effort in, you're going to get 30% doubt.
00:46:53
Speaker
I said, that's 70% of nothing. And he received all of the clocks turning in his head when he realized that, I don't mind people moaning, but you've got to put the effort in first. And if you're putting in 30% of effort, then you can't come to me moaning. It really is what I say.
00:47:10
Speaker
So it's hard work, but I know it'll be worth it in the long run. How far I've got in such a short space of time gives you that boost as well, meeting people along the way, meeting some of my good mates through the Stepping community. I look at them as mates, I look at them as role models, and it gives you that something to aim for as well. So it's tiring, but
00:47:34
Speaker
I enjoy doing it like the speech club I do every morning seven to eight we have a good laugh every morning we do games we do a bit of everything and it's just you've got to enjoy what you do same with absolutely anything whether it's working on your speech doing podcasting your career you've got to enjoy it so it's tiring it's hard but it's worth it
00:47:55
Speaker
really is worth it in the end. That is such a great attitude. I was going to ask, do you ever feel resentful about the work you have to do and wish, you know, do you ever feel, look at other people who don't have all that work and think, God, just to live a normal life, I have to do all this work and you don't. Do you ever feel like, I'm guessing, I'm thinking you don't. I used to.
00:48:17
Speaker
I used to, but again, the more open I've been about my struggles, the more open other people are. So no one's really got a normal life. Like for example, my two future flatmates, I was open about my stutter. Both of them are dyslexic and they were open about that. So everyone has their own struggles. Everyone has their own skeletons in the closet, but definitely at times I wish, why can't I be like them? Why can't I be like this person?
00:48:45
Speaker
And you know, but don't get me wrong, even though I've said if someone offered me a pill to take away my step drone, I would take it, but that doesn't mean it's because I want to be like anyone else as such. You know, because I wouldn't change anything which has got me to this point really, because, mainly because of people I've met, and the stuff I've done because of it, like without my step, I would never start a podcast, that's for one. And I loved doing my podcast, so that's something,
00:49:14
Speaker
So yeah, definitely at times before I had this new attitude, I did feel resentful of other people. As you go through different stages, you get that anger, you get that resentfulness, you get that denial. So yeah, definitely being through stages like that. But nowadays, yeah, I definitely don't anymore. I'm very much accepting that it's part of me and it's part of me that isn't important to me anymore.
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah, I love that actually. It's the fact that you say no one has a normal life. I think that is a revelation when you realise that you just don't know what other people are dealing with. And it could be anything that they haven't that they've not told anybody. So yeah, no one has a normal life. It's all relative as well. It's all relative as
00:50:05
Speaker
having a step there for someone can be the worst thing in the world. For example, if you've got someone who is a veteran and they have lost a limb, then that might be the worst thing in the world to them. Or you could have someone in a wheelchair, but their anxiety is the worst thing in the world to them. Nothing to do with the fact they paralyzed, for example. It's something where, and that's why you can't compare, like you can't say,
00:50:27
Speaker
I quite if I speak to one of my friends and he said that at times, he would rather have been, he got friend of a power trooper, he would have rather been dropped in the middle of Afghanistan than have a stature.
00:50:38
Speaker
And it's all relative. And then his friend of the paratrooper sort of said, not being a paratrooper is a lot harder than having to step down. It's all relative to the person. I've had people who said to me that my status shouldn't be a problem. Then again, I've had people who said, it's a really big problem and they can't believe I'm doing what I'm doing. So it's all relative to you. And that should be the only opinion that matters to you is how you feel about it. Yeah, absolutely. How you feel. Everything is about how you feel about it personally. Put yourself first.
00:51:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Closing Remarks and Empathy Call
00:51:11
Speaker
Well, I mean, that finishes all my questions. That's the perfect piece of advice. Callum, just tell me also, tell us how we can connect with you if people want to get in touch, if it's struck a chord for them.
00:51:25
Speaker
Well, I've always said that my messages are always open. You can find me on Facebook. I've got a Facebook page called Calm Scofield Stories, I'm an activist. If you look at my website, there's ScofieldStories.com. There's a page for contact. It got my email on there. So reach out. I'm on Instagram and Twitter as the Scofield Stories. And if anyone needs help, or not even wants to talk,
00:51:52
Speaker
wants to talk about anything from anxieties, insecurities, to step during it. You don't have to be stepping related but reach out just look for Calm School Field, all the School Field stories on the media and the schoolfieldstories.com will have everything you need and links to everything as well. Perfect and I'll put links in the show notes and link to the podcast as well. Yeah thank you very much. Yeah no worries Callum, honestly lovely conversation and I wish you so much luck with your university course and
00:52:22
Speaker
Whatever that might lead to, I'm quite excited to see how that ends. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you for inviting me on. I've really enjoyed it. I felt very emotional throughout this interview because it's not often you look back and reflect like this. So, no, I thank you so much for having us, for giving me this opportunity to speak really. You're so welcome. I've loved it. That thing in the boys' toilets is heartbreaking, isn't it?
00:52:51
Speaker
I think if we can teach our kids anything as parents, just one thing, it should be empathy. And wasn't that just the loveliest piece of advice? Trust the timing. I think that is the nicest bit of advice I've had from all of my podcast guests so far, for parents and teens.
00:53:12
Speaker
If you've enjoyed this episode of the Teenage Kicks podcast, I would love it if you'd consider subscribing or giving me a rating and a review on iTunes. It really helps other people to find these amazing conversations about teenage life.
00:53:27
Speaker
There are more parenting teens tips on my blog Actually Mommy as well, so do head over there if you fancy a read. I'll put a link in the episode notes. Thank you so much again for listening. Come back next week when I'll be chatting with another brilliant guest about the fun and games of raising teens.