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Emrys Goldsworthy on GNM, Nervous system, Movement, Pain, Art, Shock Wave Therapy, EMFs, and More!
620 Plays2 years ago
This week we're joined once more by Emrys Goldsworthy for an extra-long episode! We delve into various topics, promising you'll glean something new! It's bound to ignite fresh ideas!
We kick off with German New Medicine and Cancer, segueing into the nervous system's role in healing. Dopamine's significance and the implications of our modern world follow suit.
The vagus nerve takes center stage next, linking with bacterial and fungal systems. Evidence supporting GNM is explored, alongside its connection to the vagus nerve.
Biomechanics and movement patterns take the spotlight, emphasizing that there's no such thing as bad movement. Pain and inflammation's role in healing, osteopathy, and chiropractic are also touched upon, leading to discussions on neck stability, chewing, jaw development, and infantile suckling.
We dive into Dance, drawing from Emrys' extensive ballet background, as well as modern art, art's broader significance, and music.
A thorough examination of shockwave therapy and its implications follows. EMFs and their impact on the nervous system are discussed, segueing into a vital conversation on extremism, fear, stress, and worry. The role of diagnoses and identity in individual health is explored, with a nod to Psychotherapy.
In Emrys' closing remarks, the importance of steering clear of ideology is stressed, offering crucial insights for advancing the terrain model.
Enjoy this enlightening episode!
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Transcript
Introduction to Emerus Goldsworthy and His Work
00:00:02
Speaker
everybody to another episode of the Beyond Train podcast. We're joined again by Mr. Emerus Goldsworthy. First time we have the same guest on and I believe it's certainly warranted. This man's work is really, really amazing. I was fortunate enough to read his book and I highly recommend it.
00:00:25
Speaker
Gives a great overview of the nervous system, the connections that I play, especially the vagus nerve, of course, central to our discussion last time. Uh, I'm really excited. I'm back on today. Uh, last time was, was one of the, one of our greatest discussions I think we've had on, on the podcast so far. And I'm sure we're going to have another great one today. This event is, is definitely, I think going to be central, uh, when we look back in a, you know, 50, a hundred years.
00:00:52
Speaker
So I'm really, really grateful that we are able to chat with him and have him share his wisdom with us. So, Amherst, thank you so much for coming back on today. Always a pleasure. Really happy to talk today about this subject and wherever we go, it'd be great. Yeah.
Exploring German New Medicine and Emotional Traumas
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah. So we were just chatting there before the episode started on one of the topics that I want to bring up today.
00:01:19
Speaker
Something that we've been talking about a lot was that of German New Medicine. I think there's a lot of discussion, whether it be from Dr. Hammer and the people who have followed his work, or whether it just be the discussion of the connection of the mind and our reality.
00:01:40
Speaker
how our emotions can get stored in our body and the effect that that has, the effect that our conflicts or our traumas have on our body, on our physical health. I think it's a really interesting topic. I think it's something that for me, it's hard to escape from, you know, because when I'm looking upstream, you know, I'm seeing, I'm looking and you can always trace it back to a behavior and emotion or something of this nature. Like, you know, if you're eating,
00:02:11
Speaker
too many toxins or too much food, you know, there's a gluttony aspect there and it may boil down to greed, right? It comes down to, I think, these psychological components. So I'm really eager to hear your thoughts on this and the connection and, you know, because we always mention the nervous system in passing when discussing the mind-body connection. So I think you're the right man to ask this question to.
00:02:39
Speaker
want to kind of hear your thoughts on that. Well I definitely think that Germany medicine is going to be critical in the terrain paradigm if you want to call it that. Germany medicine is probably the the best explanation of cancer that I've ever seen. Other explanations have been you know it's like a toxin reservoir or a
00:03:07
Speaker
kind of a pseudo liver. I've heard that research as well where blood goes through the tumor comes out cleaner and maybe all of this is correct. You know maybe German New Medicine is and I may kind of bastardize this a little bit. It explains it as a point where different tumors in different regions and of course this is more relating to brainstem related problems in biological conflict systems.
00:03:36
Speaker
that these tumors are a way of the body, a way for the body to kind of deal with the trauma. Almost in a way store it there and then basically over time eliminate it. And of course there may be a variety of ways of explaining it but that essentially these tumors or cancers are
00:03:57
Speaker
a response to a trauma, and they're a way of dealing with it, and that there are these two phases, the sympathetic and vagatonic.
00:04:10
Speaker
phases and I do think that those are very interesting ideas. I do think that they are more than likely correct.
Cancer Misconceptions and Vagus Nerve Role
00:04:18
Speaker
That the body has a way of dealing with emotional trauma that we don't fully appreciate and it is a brain to body connection in the literal sense.
00:04:29
Speaker
There's a lot of this talk of brain-body connection or mind-body connection and they talk about it in a very kind of, not very descriptive way. It's kind of a bit vague and I think the problem is that it is more literal and once we get to the understanding of how literal it is as it's seen in German New Medicine, we can then better
00:04:59
Speaker
assist people going through these diagnoses. And I think the problem is also the diagnosis, you know, there's the shock diagnosis and shock biological conflicts as well, where people get the diagnosis of cancer and then can develop cancer from that itself. And we also have a problem in the world where people see cancer as something that kills. And, you know, I've always struggled with this
00:05:28
Speaker
because although I get told this million times in the textbook tells you cancer kills, it doesn't always explain exactly how.
00:05:37
Speaker
And of course we know that if someone gets something like chemotherapy, the chemotherapy can kill them. That's, I don't think that's arguably, that's easily shown in the literature. Radiation as well. And of course surgeries can kill for numerous reasons. And one of the things that I think is very interesting is that, you know,
00:06:04
Speaker
They'll always say to me, well, what about pancreatic cancer? That kills people within months. I said, well, what exactly kills them? That's my question. And if you read, if you look it up, the majority of cases they say are due to liver failure. Pancreatic cancer causes liver failure and neither due to the tumor going into the liver or other reasons. And here's what I mean. If you were to ask someone, how does the cancer kill you?
00:06:36
Speaker
they wouldn't really be able to answer that. It's not a clear answer. So that brings up, and then maybe people will have lots of ideas and they'll say, oh, no, it's because of the X, Y, and Z. Can they really prove that?
00:06:51
Speaker
You know, they used to, you know, we've been dealing with that a lot with germs. And unfortunately, the evidence for how cancer kills, I'm not saying it doesn't kill, but how it kills is not always that clear. Because it's full of a lot of convoluted issues in that it's full of drugs. It's full of emotions. It's full of other therapies that have been in, in, has been utilized to treat said cancer. We don't really know.
00:07:19
Speaker
Like, what was the end point and how? And a lot of people will say, like, for example, my mother allegedly died of cancer. But the problem is, is that when I watched the way that she died, it was nothing to do with the cancer. It was actually iatrogenic. And if you are to observe many people in these situations,
00:07:45
Speaker
The treatment is the thing that ends up killing them a lot of the time. And then how many people really die of the actual cancer? And I'm not saying they don't. I don't mean to go around circles, but it's not as clear. So when you're going to say the work of Dr. Hammer and he says it's an emotional origin and that it needs to go through its course and there are reasons why it may be stored in the process
00:08:15
Speaker
antibiotic use.
Impact of Toxins on the Nervous System
00:08:16
Speaker
It's as soon as we intervene. Really, the truth is, is that if we don't intervene or we don't get in the way, there may be ways of which, and this is what I'm looking into, ways of which we can assist in the process. And I think that's where the vagus nerve does come in.
00:08:32
Speaker
Dr. Hama didn't place huge role on toxins, although he does mention it many times. I've read a lot of the work on his Tontoxins and at least he will say that toxins damage the nervous system. And that is definitely my view. This is where toxins really hurt you. They hurt you by damaging the nervous system. And many people will say, oh, you know, it damages the intestinal epithelial cells and that, you know, creates some kind of dysbiotic response.
00:09:02
Speaker
and that that's the dysfunction and the inflammation that's produced is what's causing your disease. Well, there is absolutely no evidence that any of that causes the disease. Um, if you have nerve damage, you will get epithelial cell damage or it won't repair. A lot of people don't understand this without the nervous system actually functioning with the organ that we're talking about, that organ doesn't repair adequately or at all.
00:09:31
Speaker
Everyone thinks it's all about blood flow alone. Well, it's actually also about the amount of the nervous system activity in the organ. Okay. You know, so there are numerous studies where we do vagus nerve, electrical vagus nerve stimulation as a way to research it. It's a valid way to do that and we can create kind of more electrical activity than normal.
00:09:55
Speaker
and we see that organs repair at a much faster rate if we stimulate the nerve that goes to the organ. And this is if we damage the organ in experimental models because this is really the only way to do so. They're animal models and they are valid because if it works in an animal then it does almost certainly work in us as far as the nervous system is concerned.
00:10:21
Speaker
And so another one is like glands. So if we damage the thyroid gland, and then we electrically stimulate the vagus nerve, little branch that goes to the, to the thyroid, then that thyroid heals in a much, much, much faster rate. And it may be the determining factor. So the nervous system plays a key role in the repair of structures. And so if we've got things where damaging the nervous system, it's unable to do so.
Understanding Nerve Behavior in Health and Disease
00:10:52
Speaker
So the toxins can be a neurological block, blockade, you could say, and also a healing block. And that's one of the main reasons. It may not be the only reason, obviously, but it's certainly a main reason. And when we're getting more and more into the field of the energy of the human being, you know, the nervous system and the electricity and the energy and the light systems that seem to be so critical
00:11:20
Speaker
in our bodies to maintain health, then I don't see how you can put anything other than the nervous system on top of that as the leading kind of instigator of change in the body and the receiver of all this information, you know, whether it be any kind of energy. And I think that's why
00:11:44
Speaker
in certain circumstances, you can then lean on different idea. Like you can pretty much utilize German new medicine in most situations. And I think their only caveat to that and something that maybe Dr. Hammer did think of, but didn't necessarily elucidate, um, is that the V when the Vegas nerve or other nerves of a similar value,
00:12:10
Speaker
There are others that act similarly in the system, mainly glossopharyngeal and trigeminal nerves. They are almost similar to the vagus nerve in the whole grand scheme. When they get damaged from toxin exposure or radiation,
00:12:31
Speaker
They no longer have the ability to function optimally or at all. And they may behave in one of two ways. They may behave in an aberrant or compensatory way that means it becomes hyperactive. And there's numerous models of demonstrating this and it's well accepted. And I don't think that it's like germs in this way.
00:12:55
Speaker
Hyperactive behavior of nerves is well accepted because we can see it, we can test it. Somebody feels more sensitivity in that nerve when it's been damaged and their muscle tone goes up. So everything's in elevated state and that's one manifestation. And it does mean that in some ways you might see an organ of the vagal innovations become hyperactive under toxin exposure.
00:13:25
Speaker
So for example, uh, you might see the heart rate go right down and we might say in the terrain paradigm that everything has a reason. Okay. But I think that in some circumstances like this and others, which I'll mention the terrain paradigm can't be utilized in the same way it is. And this doesn't go against terrain at all. It's just to add to the understanding.
00:13:54
Speaker
If a toxin damages the vagus nerve, we have a very different situation. Okay. We have a situation where the body will try to repair it, but in the meantime, we've got some symptoms that are problematic, which are not in any way useful to us. Okay.
00:14:14
Speaker
Bradycardia really low heart rate actually doesn't help with the healing rate. It's not helpful in many cases. It may kill us. People can die from vagus nerve damage. They can. It's not common and it does tend to be iatrogenic.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, like you can overstimulate the vagus nerve during intubation. And when you do that, you can lower the heart rate so much that they die. And that's not the only way you can do it. And I think that that's something to consider. Obviously that fits into the terrain paradigm, because we're intervening. And so we kill ourselves in that way. But coming back to all the ways in which the nerve can become hyperactive,
00:15:02
Speaker
Gut motility, for example, diarrhea, right? This is a hyperactive activity of the vagus nerve, constipation being underactive. And we would say normally diarrhea is a detoxification mechanism. And in this situation, it would help because damage to the vagus nerve actually, when it goes hyperactive into a hyperactive state, it will create diarrhea.
00:15:31
Speaker
And it would also do that to detoxify. And in this circumstance, this is appropriate in both situations. It's not an aberrant, like say low heart rate, which can kill you. Diarrhea, as long as we maintain our hydration, won't kill us. And so that's a good example of aberrant behavior that isn't really aberrant. You know, quote unquote, aberrant. And there are other situations like this.
00:15:59
Speaker
in certain circumstances, the hyperactivity can be bad. And certain circumstances, hyperactivity can be good. And then after a while, if the damage is big enough, or long term enough, enough to damage the nerve to the point where it can no longer behave in a hyperactive state, which can only really occur in low damage states, it will actually become underactive.
Phases of German New Medicine
00:16:26
Speaker
And this is this is a situation where
00:16:29
Speaker
Um, if you know, look at German new medicine, they'll say that the initial phase of the trauma is an underactive vagal state. In other words, it's a sympathetic state. It's a stress state. And this, there's, they're not symptomatic during this time. And I, I'm looking into kind of investigating what is the role of the vagus nerve in this situation.
00:16:52
Speaker
We do have this tendency towards thinking of the vagus nerve as something we want to have active all the time, but that's really not the case and It's not as simple to say a vagus nerve is active in all areas of the body at all times when it is it can be active at the same time as the sympathetic nervous system and It can be active in the gut and not in the lungs and active in the gut and not in the heart so
00:17:21
Speaker
gets a bit more complicated. And it's not so clear anymore. You know, and unfortunately, people will say it's black and white, but it's completely and utterly many, many shades of gray. So it's not really clear. So my my add on to that, sorry to go around circles, though feels that way, is that it's likely that
00:17:46
Speaker
The main thing that we need to do during the process that is German New Medicines going through the initial phase of the shock, then the phase of the healing, which is the second phase, the vagatonic phase, you can look this up online. There are numerous sources about how German New Medicine works. And if you don't understand what I'm talking about, read that first and then listen, because then it will make more sense. We don't want to spend an hour talking about just German New Medicine. You've had guests on about that.
00:18:17
Speaker
And during this phase, or both phases, it's likely that the general health of the autonomic nervous system is important. So it's also important to understand that in many cases of vagal damage, there is sympathetic nervous system damage too.
00:18:34
Speaker
And that also the preceding factors to vagus nerve compression, which is something we haven't mentioned yet, can also compress the sympathetic nerves as well. They're not far away. And they also can compress the nerve that goes to the diaphragm, which will alter the breathing patterns of people, which may have come up in other lectures you've done. So a lot of people conflate them.
00:18:57
Speaker
and misunderstand that it's the general health of the autonomic nervous system that matters. You know, it's not like sympathetic nervous system bad, vagus nerve good. It's more that both need to be able to function optimally. And many people who present to me and they say my vagus nerve is shot, actually have low sympathetic nervous system activity too, or it's actually being misrepresented as vagal.
00:19:24
Speaker
And so that's what I think we need to consider is that the entire autonomic nervous system needs to be repaired sometimes before any of these two phases can go through full to their end point and achieve their goals. So that might be one of the kinks in the armor of the person. They might be that they
00:19:54
Speaker
have got a damage to the autonomic nervous system and they cannot go through each phase fully. And that might be due to toxin exposure preceding it or during it. So that's probably where I would put it. I mean, it's complicated.
00:20:10
Speaker
But I do think it comes back to toxins. I do think we need to consider toxins more. At this stage, that's what I think. And that might change like all signs or changes based on the evidence. But I don't think we can leave behind some of these toxins. I think that they damage the nervous system and then they leave us high and dry for us in our ability to detoxify.
00:20:31
Speaker
So as soon as the vagus nerve gets damaged by these toxins, which it does, I've said clinically, I see it in clinical testing and I explain how that can work. And then what happens is we aren't able to detect them at the same rate because the vagus nerve is the primary detection system of toxins in the gastrointestinal system, in the respiratory system, in the throat, along with glossopharyngeal and trigeminal nerve. And if we don't detect it, we can't then initiate an elimination pathway.
00:21:02
Speaker
Sorry, I went on for ages there. No, that, that was, that was great. And, uh, yeah, probably a lot to take in for the listener, but, uh, I think they can hang on to that. I'm sure. Um, I think it's really interesting, the points that you brought up, like negating, we don't necessarily need to negate the physical, like there's a certain amount of information that we can learn from the physical. We had a fellow on Paul Lee endorsed and he mentioned how cancer actually manifests as a fungus.
00:21:31
Speaker
you know, how it's actually the body rotting out. And he, um, was a little bit critical of the mechanisms and almost philosophy of German new medicine. Although, you know, his root cause of, of cancer was psycho emotional, uh, always 100% of the time. And, um, this seems to be a reoccurring topic that, you know, these, these traumatic events or these conflicts
00:22:00
Speaker
And to explain it in as the Biggleson brothers would, you know, that there's this scarring in the body that allows for us to hold onto these toxins, you know, so the body can't store and hold onto these toxins without having that psychological damage, having this damage in this respect. And so I think you had an interesting piece to the puzzle that there may be direct nervous damage inhibiting this healing process and, you know, perhaps
00:22:30
Speaker
I'm kind of just tying in a few episodes here, but you know, perhaps the, the nervous system is almost acting as this microcosm of the body, right? Whereas it's being stored in the nervous system, you know, so the nervous system can hold onto these toxins as well. Um, which in turn is hurting the organ in question or whatever, it made the tissue, uh, allowing the tissue to hold onto these toxins as well. And you know,
00:22:59
Speaker
It's interesting because if we lived in a world free of toxins, uh, it wouldn't necessarily get rid of the problem. We might not see, you know, stage four cancer. Uh, it may be, you know, less deadly, right? I know we're questioning that a little bit here, but, um, you know, because our bodies do produce a certain amount of toxins just in our general metabolism, um, that perhaps we can hold on to with the psycho emotional damage as well. So.
00:23:30
Speaker
But there is an interesting case that, you know, we're, we're in indated with these neurotoxins, you know, like these heavy metals, these MSGs, you know, like the aspartame's all, all of these different toxins that are known neurotoxins, right? We're plagued with them and we're plagued with our neurotoxic phones, the dopamine constantly hitting us all the time. So, uh, it's certainly inhibiting our,
00:23:56
Speaker
nervous system's ability and maybe that is the direct infraction. Maybe that is the infraction on the nervous system that is inhibiting our healing mechanism. There's a few things to discuss there. One is the use of things that seem to enhance our dopamine activity, right?
Bacteria's Role in Healing and Tumor Management
00:24:14
Speaker
In the literature, you can see that when you electrically stimulate the vagus nerve, your dopamine neurons fire at a much, much faster rate.
00:24:22
Speaker
the same for serotonin noradrenaline all of which are neuromodulating type neurotransmitters they go to drive the brain but in particular interest is the frontal lobe and they essentially switch on the frontal lobe. Obviously dopamine has more functions than that that are specific to dopamine and
00:24:44
Speaker
I do wonder whether someone who constantly goes to the phone to feel a sense of dopamine or a sense of anticipation of something, you know, that's how dopamine works. It's the anticipation more than the actual getting of the thing that is enhancing dopamine activity, whether that's just a little bit like using cigarettes to enhance the fagal tone, because that's what cigarettes do. They give a sort of partial, small amount of vagal activity because of the nicotine.
00:25:14
Speaker
and it's like self-care, it's self-treating this low vagal situation because low vagal tone does tend to be represented in the brain as low dopamine activity and low serotonin often as well and does depend on the situation and sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes it's inappropriate just like we said about the heart and the gut.
00:25:37
Speaker
Now I do think that the missing piece with a lot of these discussions and I would say that it's my bias. I love the vagus nerve but I do think that because people don't really have a clear neuroscience background, they don't understand the degree of which the vagus nerve
00:25:55
Speaker
is present in the toxin interface with the body. In one way it's good and one way it's bad. One way it's good because the system is able to communicate better amongst one nerve group, right? And it's more efficient whether we believe that the nervous system is one structure or a group of nerves. Either way, they're closely linked
00:26:22
Speaker
when that nerve group gets damaged you do have a higher proliferation of bacteria and fungi more than likely fungi but that's not always tested in a lot of these research papers but the bacteria becomes quite prevalent towards pathogenic but pathogenic is not how I look at it
00:26:45
Speaker
So for example, I think we mentioned this last time, most of these so-called bad bacteria that proliferate in high numbers once the vagus nerve is damaged. You see it in vagotomy when they cut the vagus nerve studies, which they used to do for reflux. You see it in when they actually damaged the vagus nerve and you see it in cases of head trauma where the brainstem has been damaged, the vagus stem as a result.
00:27:12
Speaker
You see that the gut microbiome goes towards pathogenic. When I say that, I mean, you know, uh, opportunistic bacteria get, go higher in levels and things like Klebsiella, Citrobacter, um, Vibrio in certain circumstances, you know, all sorts of things go elevated. And you'll see this on people's stool samples. They'll have.
00:27:41
Speaker
you know, all sorts of symptoms and they'll see that their gut microbiome is towards pathogenic. And they'll say, well, that's why you've got the symptoms. No. And it's may not be because of vagus nerve damage, mind you. Okay.
00:27:55
Speaker
I think what occurs is when the vagus nerve gets damaged by the toxins, the body goes, or by a trauma, the body goes, we don't have the same system available to us to selectively eliminate because the vagus nerve produces mucus, we can eliminate toxins that way. We can capture them and eliminate them through diarrhea that way. And if the vagus nerve is damaged, we can't necessarily go through full diarrhea responses in the same way. Although there are some local mechanisms for this,
00:28:23
Speaker
It may be the case that the body goes, screw it, we're going to go for pathogenic bacteria because these bacteria are the best dealing with these toxins. And that's the truth. There is so much more ability for these bad bacteria, quote unquote, bad bacteria, these heavy duty militaristic bacteria. They're way more able to buy remediate and transform or eliminate sequester.
00:28:51
Speaker
these heavy metals and other toxins, including plastics, then, you know, your lactobacillus or bifidobacteria, you know, these aren't able to do that so well. Although they have a role to play in that picture, that's why they don't completely go. You see the shift for a reason.
00:29:11
Speaker
And nothing is done for no reason. You know, this is not done for some random reason. Like the body is now pathogenic and we must kill these bacteria to cure them. You know, that's not how this works in my opinion. So the body is trying to get out of the situation as in, and that's why these fungi Candida overgrowth occurs. Then you'll see,
00:29:35
Speaker
bacteria overgrowth and bacterial networks that wouldn't normally be there suddenly emerge. And that would be the pleomorphic effect. Or they were hiding in biofilms, which is fine. As far as I'm concerned, everyone goes on about biofilms. They look at it in the wrong way. You know, I really do think that and then enter H. Pylori. I look back to Pylori. And one of the reasons I think that emerges is to deal with the damage that has occurred
00:30:03
Speaker
to the stomach lining. I don't think, I think that it's an actual stomach lining reparative organism. I don't think it causes the disease itself, obviously. It's so easy to point the finger at the wrong thing. You know, if it's present in high amounts, it's, it's always that fireman at the fire principle. Like nearly all of these, not one of these situations has been
00:30:26
Speaker
uh, created in an experimental model or an experimental human versus control, you know, so no one's being given these things and how to control. And then seeing that it causes disease relative to the control. I mean, they just haven't. And even if, even if it causes diarrhea, why is that bad? Like this is the problem, you know, we've, we've misrepresented symptoms.
00:30:53
Speaker
So, you know, bacteria, it might be the case that a lot of people get confused and a bit sort of distracted by the fact that fungi are in high numbers. And we'll say that it's what cancer really is. But, you know, Germany medicine says that fungi and particularly bacteria are needed to kind of degrade the tumor. And so they'll go really proliferate and they'll probably say they've got an infection.
00:31:21
Speaker
and then they'll get them antibiotics and then maybe they'll die as a result of that because they are, we're getting in the way of the bacteria's real role and that's to eliminate the tumors or that might be the fungus's role. Although that's not, that tends to not be how it's described in Germany medicine from my understanding. That's more in the repair of structures. So I, yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think that it's,
00:31:48
Speaker
I don't, the way you've mentioned it, the way other guests have talked about it, I personally don't see it that way, um, because it's not clear. It's not very clear and it's not based on very, very clear evidence other than experiences. And so we can create any idea out of our own experiences because we don't really know what's doing it. But I do think they're in the right direction. Yeah. But I think we can explain it through the Vegas number. I do think that that's probably, I would say the missing piece.
00:32:18
Speaker
of the puzzle in this terrain paradigm. That's what I push at least. Um, and that, you know, you can have changed in the brain that are in some ways, um, not ideal for the organism. And that's due to Vegas and damage too. So it doesn't always have to have meaning behind it. Yeah. I think we can get caught up in ideologies where
00:32:45
Speaker
We're rejecting one. We are, we're rejecting germ theory and we're rejecting, I've certainly reject autoimmunity. I don't believe that is a real thing. That's what, that's not what's causing that condition. And certainly inflammation has a cause of disease. This is, this is trash science. There is nothing about it that is logical.
00:33:11
Speaker
possibly cancer as far as German medicine is concerned, because I think that's the best explanation. As we're going through this, do we reject everything and start a free, you know, I don't think that's, that's the logical way to do this. I think we need to, we need to peel back the layers one by one and see which ones remain. And at this point,
00:33:37
Speaker
the nervous system is, I think, absolutely critical, particularly the autonomic nervous system, which is also known as the survival component of the nervous system. Without the autonomic nervous system, we literally die. And so it is, it is the thing that keeps us alive through our vital organs, through our central nervous system regulation, um, and cognitive components of cerebral. And if we,
00:34:05
Speaker
If we don't include that, we basically don't get to the answer. That's my opinion. Awesome. Yeah. And so I'm feeling compelled. I was having a conversation with a guy there a couple of days ago about German new medicine. You know, he was, he was taken back a little bit that, you know, I was looking into German new medicine.
00:34:32
Speaker
when we are talking a lot about logic on Instagram and scientific method. How would you approach that sort of situation? Because to be quite honest, I don't know the evidence for German New Medicine enough to be able to criticize it in that respect.
00:34:59
Speaker
You seem to have a great understanding of it. So how would you approach, how do you approach that? How do you, I think there is good evidence. No, I think the CT scan representations of the body, um, these sort of so-called non, non, not necessarily disease lesions, but like visible changes in the brain and particular areas of the brain that correspond to particular areas of the body.
00:35:21
Speaker
This is what we need. This is, this is replicable. And he's shown in his studies using CT scans that it is replicable, you know, and we're looking for markers and that's what we do in medicine. We look for biological markers of disease. Okay. Well, at least that's a fingerprint or some kind of representation of it in the brain.
00:35:46
Speaker
And most certainly, I think Dr. Hum would say that the brain is a representation of the body. And the body is in some ways manifesting something that's going on in the brain, you know. And we just look at it in a different way. This is the problem. We have a lens. And because we have that lens,
00:36:06
Speaker
everything else seems to be absolutely impossible. Because we do have blinkers on, we have no rep, no comprehension that the brain could manifest something like a tumor in the body. Because we don't understand how it does that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do that. You know, and
00:36:28
Speaker
And also with understanding tumors, we think of them as something that emerges from senescence or things that promotes senescence and then without the ability for our body to kill off that, it just manifests into tumors. Well, it may be the case that all of that is misrepresented. We know that a lot of this behavior in those cells is actually what's going on in the brain.
00:36:54
Speaker
And, you know, there's plenty of that in vagus nerve world, like people misrepresent the vagus nerve every day. They misunderstand it. They miss, and it's not like they have any reason to, the science is there. It's just that they ignore the neuroscience of the vagus nerve. They'd rather treat it like this ethereal thing, which is not far more interesting than that. And this, this, in this case of the say, German new medicine,
00:37:22
Speaker
There's a real unwillingness in people to want to investigate it further. Even though, like he has shown that there are legions in the brain in specific places that are replicable, meaning if it's this organ that's affected, then it's this part of the brain and it's consistently shown in that one part of the brain. That has meaning.
German New Medicine vs. Conventional Oncology
00:37:42
Speaker
And we may not have all the pieces yet, but we're getting, we, we, if we don't investigate it further, then we're not going to get to the point where we understand it. We're just going to throw in the trash and we shouldn't think we would be very devastating for humanity. And the problem also is that he's dealing with oncology and oncologists are not experts, experts in the nervous system. And this is a big issue.
00:38:08
Speaker
Another oncologist would want to talk about in this way because that would go against everything they've been taught. And the other problem is that you're using gym, Germany medicine is that you're likely to have issues with government and law because of the big role that big farmer has with, with cancer.
00:38:28
Speaker
anything that anyone trying to say they're going to cure cancer, and I've never made that representation of that, but anyone who is saying they can cure cancer is liable. And so we've seen that time and time again. Anyone who's tried to cure cancer or said they could got done. They don't mean, you know, and they, um,
00:38:55
Speaker
That's why everyone's a careful with this stuff, this topic, you know, cause no one really cares. If you say you can cure Hashimoto's disease, no one really cares. You know, that's obviously it matters, but no one's going to knock on your door and say, you know, you're, you're being arrested for false information or for whatever reason they might say. Um, and so I think that's where it goes a bit wrong for people. And that's why it's a contentious subject, but it can be talked about.
00:39:24
Speaker
I think at an academic level, we need to consider it.
00:39:28
Speaker
Um, at least when, you know, the, the safer area to talk about is the role of higher order brain systems and how it can manifest in conditions of degeneration and, uh, where tissues have declined. So osteoporosis, for example, or arthritis. And so, uh, he has good explanations for that. Um, they're not, they're of the new brain or the old brain, things like that. Um,
00:39:57
Speaker
And it's interesting because we've got studies now that show vagus nerve stimulation increases the cartilage and repair rates of joints and osteoporosis to some extent. They're all new studies. They're not fully into RCT trials yet, but that's interesting. I think that if we understand the vagus nerve more and more, we'll understand that it's key
00:40:26
Speaker
component of the repair process and that goes with Jooma New Medicine when they say the vagatonic stage is the repair stage. And if we don't have adequate vagus nerve activity during that stage, it could be the case, I hypothesize, that it doesn't adequately go through that phase or it's stalled.
00:40:47
Speaker
that could be the case. And that might be where I step in and say, look, here's what I know about the vagus nerve. And here's how you can really ramp up its activity and deal with why it's damaged in the first place. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I've recorded a really interesting conversation yesterday. Uh, and that would be last week's episode, I guess when it goes up with, um, Dr. Sophie Fletcher. And we were talking about,
00:41:17
Speaker
you know, how the individual's experience can lead to, you know, different, it can manifest in different ways.
Movement and Its Healing Power
00:41:25
Speaker
Um, of course, physically, biologically, you know, the nervous system always, always comes up. You know, a big thing that we were talking about in the healing phase was the somatic component, right? Movement as healing these emotional traumas, healing these,
00:41:46
Speaker
psychological traumas and not necessarily, you know, she takes really interesting stance actually that, you know, but yeah, it's not really about going back and reliving these traumatic events, but more so dealing with them in the here and now, you know, how are our behaviors maladaptive now, how are habits maladaptive, right? Um, and I think this is really interesting perspective, but the component of movement is something that,
00:42:17
Speaker
everybody brings up. Yep. And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. You know, especially relating to the vagal, vagal nerve, you know, vagal stimulation, you know, is there a somatic component to that there too, and the healing process? Can that help expand, like expand on the healing, right? You know, I feel like movement is key. Movement is like a non negotiable. And I have like a list I put up online recently about non negotiable. Um,
00:42:46
Speaker
Before implementing any kind of treatment, you need these in place in order for the treatment to work properly or adequately, you know, and have no expectations that will work until they're there, you know, so. And then if you don't have these non-negotiables in place, then the clinician's job is to get you there first and then we'll get on to. And that may look very similar, but the point of it is, is more of an academic thing that you don't
00:43:15
Speaker
If someone is sedentary and they sit down all day because of their pain or for whatever reason, they might have chronic fatigue. But you've got to deal with that as part of it. You're not going to see healing in someone who doesn't move. I think that's pretty obvious. And that's not only because of blood flow.
00:43:39
Speaker
And it is to do with blood flow. This is why someone gets up in the morning and they've got pain getting out of bed and they move around and all of a sudden that pain slowly goes away.
00:43:51
Speaker
a lot of that is just blood flow. And maybe that's still a structure of water. Maybe that's to do with how much destructuring occurs in certain nerves and that results in pain maybe and moving around restructures water, something like that. It could be the reason we just know that movement is key. And one of the problems in the field and you might have noticed this is that people talk about aberrant movement, or they'll say movement that is incorrect. Like it is done in an incorrect way.
00:44:22
Speaker
The problem is, there's no evidence that any movement pattern is incorrect. You know, like, for example, bending and picking up objects by the waist versus the hips. Okay. There is actually very little evidence that waist-based flexion, so lumbar flexion lifting, is any more dangerous than hip flexion lifting.
00:44:45
Speaker
In fact, people who were told in a study done, I can't remember the author, it was years ago that I read it, they were given two main ways of which they could lift boxes in this study and they were heavy. One was they squat down, straight back and lifted. The other group could just do whatever, bend from the waist, whatever they felt. The one that bent from the waist had far less problems, less pain, less discomfort, less complaints.
00:45:14
Speaker
And this goes to the fact that everyone has different way of doing things. And the problem is we've set all these, these guidelines, you know, there's all these people making a lot of money teaching different movement patterns and fixing your movement. And definitely people have weakness, right? But movement behavior, the way you move, doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the problem. And this is, and a lot of people hate this when I say this, because the evidence does not back up their claims.
00:45:44
Speaker
You know, for example, if you lift your arm and you're a scapula at the back, the scapula does a winging action. If it does that, oh, that's bad. You must have scapula, scapula dyskinesis, which is essentially a movement aberration abnormal movement. And you're going to fix that to get rid of that shoulder pain. And that's absolute garbage science is not true. The likelihood is that you'll see these things
00:46:10
Speaker
Any movement pattern you see in someone, and I know this is not what you were referring to, but I want this to be clear to some people because it's just out there all the time with semantics. People move in a way that is best suited to them at that time. And that doesn't mean it's bad. And if someone does a movement, right? Let's say they walk and they roll their arches and all sorts of things. And you know, oh, that's bad for their, you know, Achilles or their plantar fascia and all this.
00:46:39
Speaker
Don't worry about it. The fact is they're moving. Like that's all that matters. All that matters is people move. And sometimes people will say, well, their abnormal movement patterns are stopping them from doing more or that that's what's causing their problem. No, it's nearly always nothing to do with that. It's nearly always to do with the lack of movement. And, um, you know, this is the problem. Like people create barriers to more movement by creating rules. There are no rules to movement.
00:47:10
Speaker
So, you know, that's my opinion after years of, of doing it the other way, I've had to unlearn and there's a, you know, in terrain, you know, with unlearn germ theory. Well, in my world that I started in, which is in musculoskeletal health, uh, we had to unlearn a lot of these ideas. You know, um, one of them was that tissue types cause different pains, muscle pain versus bone pain versus joint pain and all this, but they're all nerve pain.
00:47:38
Speaker
Without the nerves, you don't have pain. So let's get over that and let's just move on. And then movements. Oh, you've got abnormal movement. We assess movement for hours and then try to fix that aberrant movement pattern. And somehow that's going to fix their problem. Well, it might by chance, but the truth is, is that when it's studied, it just doesn't stack up. Like those movement patterns are seen in healthy people and unhealthy, meaning people with pain and no pain.
00:48:05
Speaker
and those don't necessarily, correcting them doesn't necessarily result in any change in the pain. Treating the pain, people's pain helps them move more. Getting them out of that phase, you know, we go back to German New Medicine, people are in pain, they're in a healing phase. Pain is a suggestion that they're healing because the same chemicals that promote pain are also by and large vasodilators. So, you know, they are a big part of
00:48:34
Speaker
kind of reparative response, and we get in the way. It's interesting, a lot of my therapies, people say, oh, is this work on inflammation? I say, well, technically it's pro-inflammatory therapy. So everything I do that is essentially pro-inflammatory. You put a needle into someone, it's inflammatory. Acupuncture and dry needling is inflammatory. When you use shockwave therapy, everyone knows I use shockwave therapy. Shockwave is inflammatory.
00:49:03
Speaker
Even low-level laser and light therapy is actually inflammatory. So, you know, people think, you know, red light and inflammatory. Well, that's a very narrow-minded way of explaining it, because a net effect is anti-inflammatory, but initially it's pro-inflammatory. Okay. And this is good. This is not bad, right?
00:49:25
Speaker
So that's where I, that's where I come into it. I think people need to move and we're going around so sorry again, but we need to get people to move. We need to get them repairing and movement is a key part of that. If you don't load tissue, they don't think they need to repair, right? If you don't walk and load bear, you're not going to change your osteoporosis. If you don't load, they're not going to change your osteoarthritis. Osteoarthritis is more associated with sedentary behavior than it is with movement. Okay.
00:49:53
Speaker
is that is completely misunderstood and it's well established in the literature now and they'll say that the new caveat is this, they'll say well actually it's more to do with the level of interleukin-1-beta. That's probably more indicative of what osteoarthritis of causes osteoarthritis and that well that could be obesity causing it, diet, lifestyle and I'm like look that just suggests they're repairing. That's all that means and and interleukin-1-beta is a pro-inflammatory cytokine that you know everyone should know about but
00:50:23
Speaker
What it really just means is the body is initiating a repair response or some kind of debris removal, which it may well do depending on the phase it's in. But anything where the tissues have declined tendinopathy or like I've already mentioned osteoarthritis, you've got to stimulate the tissue to get repair in the tissue. So if we're not, if we're going to repair people's nervous systems, coming back to that, you have to use your nervous system.
Challenging Traditional Injury Treatments
00:50:52
Speaker
Okay. And that, and there's nothing more engaging for the nervous system than exercise. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. It's about.
00:51:08
Speaker
Moving more, that's what people do. It doesn't matter what kind of movement it is, just do it. Don't create rules. Everyone's like, oh yeah, I meant to do X amount of these exercises and I really should be going out there and doing this and lifting weights and I'm like, yeah, but can you walk? Is there a reason why you're not going for a walk right now? So you don't create rules for people. Yeah.
00:51:36
Speaker
No, I think that's, that's a really important point, especially as people working as practitioners, right? Trying to create these rules is just gonna, well, you know, I'm reluctant to follow rules. You know, if somebody tells me that I got to follow a rule, I want to break that rule even more. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's a really, really great point. And, you know, even on the topic of,
00:52:05
Speaker
driven new medicine a little bit. We're talking about adaptation too, right? So say you do end up, say you have a condition like you were mentioning osteoarthritis or osteoporosis, you know, your body is going to try and heal that. But like you said, if, if you're not moving, the body's not going to adapt to a moving body, right? The body's only going to heal enough. It's going to keep itself alive enough.
00:52:30
Speaker
to function to sit on a couch or whatever it may be, right? That's exactly right. If you're not getting out there moving, it's not going to adapt to what you want. Same as healing injuries, I'm sure. Like if you tear your Achilles, you know, you want to make sure that you're starting movement as soon as possible, right? Obviously, we're going to be late. I don't know. That's right. You kind of apply that the same way there.
00:52:56
Speaker
I find the best way to deal with the majority of injuries is to commence moving it as soon as possible. And I have no interest in ice. I have no interest in immobilization. There are circumstances where that's not appropriate, like your leg is split in two. Or you've got some pretty insane injury to a bone where it's coming out of the skin and needs surgery. And that does need surgery.
00:53:24
Speaker
But they're really the only examples where it doesn't apply. You know, like if you just sprained your ankle, the last thing you want to do is wrap it up in something and then go and put it up and put ice pack on it. This is literally the last thing you want. And that is an old idea that is, has not completely been eliminated. But many, many people don't believe in that anymore. Many people will say the best thing to do is to keep moving and to keep walking.
00:53:51
Speaker
And I sprained my ankle, this is just an anecdote, but I sprained my ankle about a year ago and it was all swollen. And I was like, screw this. And I went for a 30 minute walk and it hurt the entire time.
00:54:06
Speaker
And just like, you know, I limped through it and, and, and did some other things where I pretended my other leg was injured. And as a little psychological trick, um, listen to music, um, had a coffee, went to lunch. And then I came back and then, um, this is what I was. I am also a choreographer in ballet. So I was, I did it during that. What a surprise. I'm too old for ballet. Um, but then, um, I was just sitting there and I realized this is after half an hour later, 20 after a half an hour after it realized
00:54:36
Speaker
It was really getting swollen. It was sore for a good hour prior to that. Went for that walk, came back. Not 30 minutes later, I realized I don't have any pain. And I know a sprained ankle when I see one. You know, this was, this was at least a grade two, but how am I pain free now? I don't understand. Um,
00:55:01
Speaker
There's a, there's a bit of a longer explanation as to why a lot of people recover so quickly from sprains when they walk. Um, we don't have to go into that, but the point of it is, is that we need to listen to our bodies need to move. Right. And unfortunately we've been trained to think, you know, to wrap it up and, you know, hold it up in the air and do all these things because that's, that's the fear that drives that, you know, it's not natural to do that. It's natural to keep moving.
00:55:31
Speaker
and keep the blood flowing, right? Because if we do that, we actually really halt healing. ICE is a great way to stop healing response. It really does lower blood supply to the area. That's why they use it, right? To stop bleeding internally. But the problem is, is that you're also suppressing a bunch of other things. Actually also suppressing nerve activity. And there's a large study that was done
00:55:58
Speaker
I think it was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine and they said that there is a real problem with ankle sprain icing because there is as considerable a number of these people that are getting fibular nerve damage from it because it gets placed over a nerve and then they're like, and then later they're like, Oh, I've got all these nerve problems. So the treatment, which really isn't effective is actually worse than
00:56:22
Speaker
than the injury itself long term because nerve damage is far more problematic than ligamentis in most cases. Well, because it's going to inhibit that healing, right? Yes. Well, any loss of nerve activity, we went back to that before that people don't appreciate how much nerves do.
Physical Activity and Nervous System Health
00:56:42
Speaker
Nerves release inflammatory chemicals as well.
00:56:45
Speaker
and nerves release a lot of other substances that we just haven't really discovered yet. It's it's very new science. So the nerves are very, very much endocrine structures. I think we could probably tie it into to, you know, the osteopaths work with moving the cerebral spinal fluid through movement, and even body work, you know, and the healing components of that, right, because they're talking about
00:57:15
Speaker
a whole other breathing mechanism of the body through this, you know, the cranial sacral connection and the movement of the cerebral spinal fluid. So how do you connect that in? So this kind of craniosacral approach, um, is quite widespread sitting chiropractic, which I trained in, um, how much of the movement in the therapies does it or versus just walking because walking,
00:57:44
Speaker
You know, they, everyone places a lot of tickling chiropractic. They place a lot on the alignment of the spine as being important to this. And that may be true in many circumstances, particularly upper cervical spine. I think it gets less and less important as you go down personally, um, in my experience, but, um, because the space is greater, but, and the, the degree of the nervous system in the spinal cord is getting less and less. Um,
00:58:11
Speaker
But I think the movement is important in that we have natural movements that do this. For example, like I said, walking, walking undulates the spine, creates pressure gradients as going up and down the spine and it creates change there.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I think one of the interesting things that comes back to this, which seems unrelated, but is the role of cervical stability and the fact that a lot of people are actually really weak in their neck. This is probably the biggest problem I see. And this leads to vagus nerve disruption, sympathetic nervous system disruption. And it also leads to malalignment syndromes in the neck that occur at a much faster rate.
00:58:58
Speaker
may be alleviated by manipulation or soft tissue releases and all sorts of things but are not maintained that way. Any way you can maintain alignment is through adequate strength and good nervous system activity because strength is only garnered by good neural activity to that muscle, right? So
00:59:20
Speaker
So they might well say that alignment of the C1, C2, which is probably the most important one chiropractic, maybe osteopathy to a certain extent, I think it depends on the osteopath, takes a key role in manifesting all these different downstream symptoms. So if you, and this goes to cerebrospinal fluid because a lot of the cerebrospinal fluid is getting sort of stuck there and around the upper cervical region.
00:59:50
Speaker
And my belief is the reason why treatment of the upper neck and mid cervical spine as well results in systemic change, including the brain function of this reverse spinal fluid is likely a component of that. One of the things that really does matter is the role of how the nervous system interacts with muscles.
01:00:12
Speaker
meaning the more electrical activity you have in the neck to the muscles and the more muscle you have, the better it is at regulating the stability of the neck and the ability to flow freely, the cerebral spinal fluid into the brain from the spinal canal. And I think that's probably the best way I would explain it. And I've seen great results with neck rehabilitation exercises, things that you wouldn't expect
01:00:40
Speaker
You know, we already know that neck massage increases digestive activity that's been studied and that's interesting by itself, particularly the muscle, the sternocleidomastoid, if you release that muscle, you by and large will increase digestive activity because you decompress the vagus nerve. The sternocleidomastoid is the main muscle that would compress the vagus nerve in the neck because it crosses it. And when your sternocleidomastoid gets really overactive,
01:01:10
Speaker
It could be one of two reasons. One, the needs of the neck mean that we need more activity in that muscle. So it might be weak. So muscles get tight when things are weak and allows them to be a bit more efficient when they're in a high tone state. And then the other reason might be that the nerve that goes there is damaged or is entrapped and that's the spinal accessory nerve.
01:01:37
Speaker
people often complain of tightness in these two muscles, the muscle here, the sternocleidomastoid and the muscle on top of their shoulder, the trapezius, and they're both innovated by this spinal accessory nerve. And this spinal accessory nerve, funny enough, sits right next to the vagus nerve in the upper cervical region and can be entrapped here along with the vagus nerve. And so all of a sudden it becomes this big circle. You're going to go, where does it start and where does it end?
01:02:04
Speaker
And it could be the case, and I believe so, that the general stability of the neck is a big player. And why are we, why have we got so many people with stability problems in their neck? I think one of the reasons is that we don't behave in the way that we used to. For example, we would be on the ground and
01:02:26
Speaker
we would constantly have to hold our head up in a way that was different to the way we do now. This is one theory I have, and it may not explain every situation, right? And there may be chemical reasons for this as well, which I'll go into, but we don't really challenge our neck the way we used to. That's all I mean in the way that we move because we sit down like this and the neck is not challenged because gravity just stacks the bones.
01:02:51
Speaker
So every other situation where our neck would be challenged would be getting up and down from the ground because we're having to lie down and get up and we use our muscles. And for many years, everyone avoided using their neck muscles, but that is actually quite detrimental. It's far better to be strengthening your neck to protect it than to avoid activity in the neck. They used to do this, hold your head when you do sit ups, otherwise you'll hurt your neck. Well, you'll strain it because it's weak.
01:03:20
Speaker
That's why. But the chemical cause, it could be things that are oestrogenic. So oestrogenic compounds are definitely linked to hypermobility syndromes. So it could be the case that more and more people are getting these changes in movement patterns in their neck because they're becoming more hypermobile. Because of an oestrogenic xenoestrogens
01:03:47
Speaker
And that might be one of the reasons we certainly seeing that with gender. So I wouldn't be surprised that physical manifestations of these compounds that are estrogenic would be present, you know, so that would lead to the neck being more unstable and the sacroiliac joints being more unstable again goes to sacro occipital ideology.
01:04:16
Speaker
these two bones, if the sacroiliac joint is unstable, that is not good for the person because it needs to be inherently stable for the functioning of the hips and lower back. And if the upper cervical and mid cervical aren't stable, although they're already unstable to begin with, then you're going to get problems too. And that's what we've been referring to. So I do think it's possible that we're dealing with a toxicity problem as an origin. And that could be phthalates.
01:04:45
Speaker
So not sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I know it on the, you know, the natural movement to get this cerebral spinal fluid moving too, right? They do a lot of cranial osteopathy is something I've done and, um, something I've heard people speak of, you know, chewing.
01:05:09
Speaker
is a great way to stimulate the movement of the skull now. Yeah. And this is really important. And I think it can be, I think it can be inhibited by poor facial structure. Um, if you don't have a proper bite pattern, you're not going to have the right pressure on every tooth. Right. So I think that can be problematic, but you know, I kind of play around with my dog. Sometimes when he's chewing on something, I'll feel his head.
01:05:37
Speaker
His whole head you can feel is in motion, like on the very top, back everywhere, his neck, everything. Um, I just think that's a really interesting observation. It's more discreet on humans. We have a much bigger skull, obviously than dogs, but, um, these mechanisms are, are homogeneous or they're the same across the board. Um, and I think that's really important and I'm glad you brought the neck thing up. You know, one of my buddies, um, gave me some wisdom one day and
01:06:06
Speaker
He told me that the neck is the only muscle that you can see when you're wearing a shirt. So you better train that muscle. It's the only one you can show off all the time. So I thought, oh, that's a little motivation for all the listeners out there. Training the neck is great. And I love to hear the health reasons behind it. That's a really, really amazing thing that I haven't really heard of before. I mean, I saw you post about it, but.
01:06:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you know, you mentioned jaw, right? Well, there are numerous reasons why people might avoid overuse of the jaw on overuse, but more use than usual, right? So they avoid certain foods and things like that. It might be tooth reasons or for whatever reason. But one is that mechanically, it does really get tight when you have some kind of entrapment of the trigeminal nerve, which is the nerve that goes through those jaw muscles.
01:06:52
Speaker
It might also be mechanical because a stabilisation base, which is the cranium, is not stable on the neck.
01:07:04
Speaker
So a lot of the reasons why people get tight jaws is because they're weak necks. And you gotta look down the line, right? Well, okay, so the drawer, the mandible is attached to the cranium. Well, what's the cranium attached to? And so if there's a chain in, a link in the chain that's in some ways not stabilized, then that's one way of looking at it. But I also think that it's to do with the way we're brought up. We're given soft foods from an early age, we're not given,
01:07:33
Speaker
whole foods, you know, like with my daughter, I did a thing called baby lead weaning, which you give them basically whole foods. Her first food was a lamb cutlet. And she would just like gnaw at it. She didn't have any tea, but she just like
01:07:50
Speaker
use a jaw on it and she would suck the blood out, how caveman of her. But it was very, it was an approach that we took because we saw the evidence and it made sense because it was kind of how historically we would do things. We didn't have a blender.
01:08:07
Speaker
We didn't go and blend food, just so that the baby could eat it, you know, not 1000 years ago, you know, so like, what do we do? And, and, and why have we lost a lot of this jaw activity? Why have you changed our jaw structure so much? We don't chew, you know, we just don't spend a lot of time chewing. And this actually leads on to another thing. Sorry to take another path.
01:08:29
Speaker
in my talk, which I do, which is called Fix Your Gut. This is the talk I do to the general public. One of the things that I explain to people is if you do not chew enough, you will not stimulate your vagus nerve. So chewing is a stimulation of the vagus nerve because the trigeminal nerve is like a very important first point of contact with food. And the trigeminal nerve is very active during chewing and not just the trigeminal nerve, but
01:08:59
Speaker
a lot of nerves. And they're constantly communicating with the vagus and saying, foods incoming foods incoming. And the more you chew, the more neural activity there is. And so the more acid secretion you'll get. So if you're if you're eating a bit of steak or anything, anything, you got to really chew it.
01:09:16
Speaker
to the point where it becomes a paste liquid almost. And then you can swallow it and you're essentially doing everything you need to, but a lot of people do. And I'm guilty of this as well. We rush our food and that goes back to how we eat. We eat on the run.
01:09:30
Speaker
And we don't eat things in a way that we used to or that, you know, the blue zones do. They eat in communal like together. It's a slower process or in France, you know, it's two hours for lunch, something like that. And then I think that's important. I think if we were to take more time with our food, we would have better, better
01:09:50
Speaker
absorption of nutrients, better gut behaviors, things like that. We wouldn't strain our system so much, but we do. And I think that's why the jaw activity is important. But if we're avoiding it, there are other reasons we might look at avoiding jaw movements. Yeah. Yeah. Something I learned from John Rose, who was one of the first guys I started learning about this terrain model.
Development and Growth in Infants
01:10:14
Speaker
He's this guy on YouTube. He's actually been raw vegan for like
01:10:18
Speaker
a very long time, which is interesting. He's in his sixties now and, um, you know, he's seemingly in great shape, high energy eats like only raw vegetables. Uh, really interesting guy used to be a pro tennis player. Um, not that I agree with the vegan approach, but you know, he's, he's got some wisdom that's for sure. And he talked about, uh,
01:10:41
Speaker
You should chew every food until it becomes a juice. That was his philosophy. If you're going to eat solid food, you should chew it until it's juice, right? Because he was a big juicer as well. So he was like, even if you're drinking juice or drinking a liquid, you should swish it around in your mouth before you swallow it. So you're getting this proper activation of the, you know, he, I don't think he mentioned the nervous system, but of, you know, the gut, right? He went right to the gut that, you know, you have to have the signaling process going through.
01:11:09
Speaker
Um, so I think that's really important. And, uh, another thing I want to know was in our conversation with Diana Marshall, she mentioned with babies, the suckling actually of the breast. Stimulates like the suction of the mouth, right? And you can get into the discussion to mewing, but it creates that pressure on proper jaw development as well. Oh, yeah. Oh, without a doubt. You know what I mean? So it's a really interesting connection there. Um, so it's, you know, because you,
01:11:37
Speaker
something I thought of that was, it was like, so we're babies aren't supposed to eat soft foods or they drink milk for years and they can develop fine. But it's very different than drinking, you know, some juice or something out of a bottle than actually having the suckling motion, which
01:11:54
Speaker
almost stimulates in the same way as chewing something like that. Right. So, yeah. And then a lot of people, they, they watch this baby struggling and they go, Oh, that's bad. You know, like they're, they're not attaching properly. They're not doing this. And side note, um, there's a study done, which is amazing where they have newborns and they're premature and they have problems with attachment basically because they've got immature nervous systems and they haven't figured it out. It's like teaching someone to
01:12:25
Speaker
shoot a basketball at the first, not going to get it in the room. They're not going to get it straight away. You know, like it's, it's any, anything where an activity is not being done before. And in particular babies, like they haven't done really anything before. So to expect it to happen straight away is not there, but they, what they did was they had a group of these babies and it's a terrible studying that not all the babies got this, but one group got literal electrical vagus and the stimulation through the ear.
01:12:52
Speaker
one ear, only one, and at a low level and the other group didn't. And there was a considerable difference in the time it took to latch. So the vagus nerve group, they latched at a much, much faster rate. I can't remember the exact rate, but it was quite compelling research. And that essentially is the fact that the vagus nerve is a component of this activity. And once the vagus nerve is more active, they're more able to do suckling or to try to, um, to feed.
01:13:22
Speaker
coming back to feeding itself, the struggle is where it's at. You know, if you don't struggle to achieve something, you're never going to learn to do it, you know, adequately. So people avoid struggle and they see someone struggling and they give them a helping hand. Well, they're never going to learn. You know, if people don't struggle, they don't learn. They don't, they don't develop
01:13:43
Speaker
So we need to see our children struggling for the food, struggling for the thing, you know, struggling to get it where it needs to be to be able to be eaten, you know, whatever it might be.
01:13:56
Speaker
And, but what we do is we just hand feed them, you know, it's just constantly make it easier, make it easier. And that means they don't develop, not at the same rate of which they should. And that's what's happened. I think a lot of these situations where, and also goes to talk, talking. So the more they struggle through eating and baby led weaning as an example, or through breastfeeding, it's more likely that they have the, um,
01:14:22
Speaker
neuromuscular structure to speak at a much earlier time and with better articulation. So these are all the things we need as a human being. We need to be able to communicate, we need to be able to eat, we need to be able to feed ourselves. And I just think that people don't put enough emphasis on that.
01:14:41
Speaker
And it does, it changes the structure of the face because we're getting in the way of the natural, natural progression of things and how things would have been in the past because we have all these things that make things easier. But is it really good for us? It doesn't seem to be. Hmm. Well, I mean, we could see that inside today, right? We are constantly seeking comfort and the expedient route, right? We're always reaching for the phone.
01:15:08
Speaker
rather than pursuing something that's difficult and meaningful in the long term. And you see the repercussions. You see them spiritually, you see them mentally, and you see them physically. Always going for what's expedient rather than what is meaningful. And the meaningful passage is often
01:15:28
Speaker
the more difficult one, right? Oh, without a doubt. And it, the, the net gain is much higher down the difficult route, you know? And, uh, you know, you look at even just on a day to day basis, if you go and do difficult exercise, if you go, go into the outside and you're like, Oh, it's a bit cold. Oh, it's a bit hot. Oh, that sun's in my eyes. You know, all these things, they're difficult, but you build your tolerance to them and we do.
01:15:55
Speaker
And the benefits are exceptional. And then we just don't want to be that lazy, you know, easy life person because we look back and we have nothing to really say and feel proud of, you know, there's nothing. And I look, we're all guilty of it, you know, we're all guilty of not doing what we set out to do or like to do. Because that's innate in human beings, we look for the path of least resistance.
01:16:26
Speaker
But we also have a very clever mind and that mind is able to overall and say, no, this is a better way. Let's do this. So I think we need to remember that. Yeah, I think that's really important. Yeah.
Emerus's Journey in Ballet and Art
01:16:44
Speaker
Yeah. You know, the last thing I kind of wanted to touch on was, was your background in dance. I think that's fascinating how you've,
01:16:53
Speaker
come to where you are now from that background. It's only eclectic, isn't it? Yeah. People don't really know this. Yeah. I was a ballet dancer, classical ballet dancer with a Royal New Zealand ballet. I'm Australian, but I dance there. And I trained at the Australian Conservatoire of Ballet.
01:17:12
Speaker
in Melbourne. That was my life, everything. It meant that I did distance education for the majority of my childhood. That's probably why I think laterally. I wasn't told what to think. I trained full time and then got into New Zealand, but I deliberately went to New Zealand because it was a great
01:17:40
Speaker
ballet company to start with because there's a smaller 32 dancers and my teachers were from there as well and they recommended I go there first and it was really good. It was fantastic. It was like a family there in New Zealand and New Zealand's a lovely place. You ever get to go there. I've been to nearly every single part of New Zealand. I've been there. I lived there obviously and then I traveled back twice again. Uh, for everyone else who's not aware of New Zealand is like this, um, these two islands southeast of Australia that
01:18:11
Speaker
Most of New Zealand is pristine, like it's untouched, although a lot of them, they've removed a lot of the trees, initially farming and grazing. But you know, it's where Law of the Rings was filmed, and it is a spectacular place. And so I lived there, down to the New Zealand Ballet, and then eventually I retired. I retired mainly because I'd lost a lot of passion.
01:18:36
Speaker
um for it at the time and I don't regret it because it's a very difficult field to stay in long term financially because you don't earn a lot of money in the arts uh and physically although I retired just for personal reasons I wanted to have a change and so that's when I went and did my my first bachelor degree after that
01:18:57
Speaker
But in the meantime, I stayed teaching and choreographing, and then eventually I, about in 2019,
01:19:09
Speaker
situation came to the point where a company creating a ballet company would be appropriate. It's weird how things just happen like that. I always wanted to do it, but I didn't see a way to do it or a route to do it, but just emerged. And I started my company, Brisbane Ballet Company, which is my city I live in. And that would eventually be, I renamed it to Ballet Infinity.
01:19:36
Speaker
to make it more internationally palatable. And so my wife is pregnant at the moment, so we're kind of in hiatus at the moment until maybe later in the year, get back into more shows. But I've created about, it's getting close to $15.
01:19:56
Speaker
Yeah, so I choreograph and I've danced a little bit in the last few years or came back. I choreograph ballet and kind of modern ballet contemporary kind of work. Yeah. So it's an interesting field to also be in. It's my artistic expression and it's where I go. That's where my passion goes, although I've got great passion in the academic work and clinical work I do. It's very different to the work you do in arts.
01:20:26
Speaker
Arts is, in some ways, you're never happy with the result, but the process is what you strive for.
01:20:34
Speaker
In arts, for me, it's more about the development of the artwork than the actual appreciation of it thereafter. That's hard for a lot of people to understand. When you go to see a ballet, you think the choreographer generally would say, oh, I'm really happy the crowd loved it. That's what makes me feel good.
01:20:57
Speaker
What made me feel good was developing it and getting it to the closest state that was what I had in mind, which is very hard when you're dealing with people, not a canvas. It's different in choreography in that way. I can't lie. I kind of see it similar in academia and sort of the liberal arts, you know, understanding the natural sciences. A lot about the process because
01:21:27
Speaker
Uh, you know, I, you know, I question a lot whether we can come to a point where we can just sit back and sort of appreciate what we've done. Right. You know, there's always, I think you have to do that.
01:21:39
Speaker
I think you're right. You do have to appreciate where you've come from and how far you've come. Like every day I'm reading papers on PubMed, whether I agree with PubMed as a source of information or not, it's the best go-to at this point. And constantly looking for answers, constantly questioning everything, you know, and that's what I mainly post about. I just constantly putting up things that question the main narrative or enlighten people to what I've learned.
01:22:08
Speaker
And there is a bit of artistry to that in a way because you've got to, you've got to reinterpret information. You've got to reinterpret everything, you know, rather than just accepting things at face value. A lot of people find it hard to break from that. And then there's, they don't see it as the art form that is research. And I think, yeah, for me, like the ballet world is not a world of which I particularly like.
01:22:38
Speaker
Um, it is a politically ideologically driven, um, it's full of very different people to me. I'm, you know, I'm probably in many ways a right wing nut job, um, to them, um, I'm not, I'm agnostic. Um, I'm agnostic about most things, but I, and I don't really sit perfectly into the right side of politics, but ballet is, it is a tendency towards more the left side of politics and more people on the left in the, in ballet.
01:23:08
Speaker
And so a lot of the work that people do is driven towards gender ideology or things like that. And for me ballet has always been pretty much about romance, about love, about the kind of male-female dichotomy. Literally kind of the opposite. It's not fluid at all. And these stories are very old,
01:23:37
Speaker
old ideas and I think that in many ways ballet is quite the opposite to what they think it is.
01:23:46
Speaker
The ballet, unfortunately, is being attacked. It's not any way suited to the majority of Western countries anymore because it is very European and doesn't get a lot of funding because it is so European. It's not indigenous, which has its place, of course, which is a real problem. And in many ways, ballet is becoming a lost art. I think in Germany and France and England, they haven't started doing that. But in Australia, they have.
01:24:16
Speaker
And that's a real shame. And I think in Canada they have too. The United States as well to a certain extent. But we need to keep this art form alive. You know, it is quintessentially European art form.
01:24:33
Speaker
And people love it, but people don't love it being kind of mutated into some ugly form that doesn't really represent them as a society, which it kind of is going through at the moment. Sorry to go off on tangent, but this kind of a lot of people have to appreciate this and other art, you know, people, particularly in this realm and maybe more the right side of politics, they would say art doesn't really represent them.
01:25:00
Speaker
you know, because it's gone really in a weird direction. And that's certainly the case in many situations. Um, and ballet has that as well in dance. Um, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to represent, um, traditional values, uh, reason and understanding in the way that I, I see it, uh, in, in dance. And I truly believe in that. And I think that,
01:25:29
Speaker
Arts is a really good way of expressing it so that it's part of the culture broadly. Yeah. Well, I think we've seen a bastardization of, you know, the fine arts, whether it be architecture, look at the state of architecture compared to what it used to be. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Look at modern art, look at modern art, the modern, I just, I, I decided to be honest with you and, um, same with music. Music is very different than what it used to be.
01:25:58
Speaker
Like you're saying in dance, let's say film, literature as well, right? We're seeing it kind of across the board. And, you know, something that I found really compelling when studying Carl Jung was that he mentioned the arts. He referred mostly painting, you know, because obviously he did a lot of work with painting and drawing or, you know, expression through a creative outlet like painting. You know, he mentioned that, you know,
01:26:27
Speaker
the collective of what is maybe popular in painting or in art is almost representative of the collective unconscious, right? It's indicative of the state of, you know, this consciousness that precedes us all, right? So that was his kind of way of explaining it. And I just thought that was so, so interesting, just looking at the, I would say, deterioration of these fine arts.
01:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, generally we would say my mother was a painter, an artist. So I grew up with art as being kind of at the forefront in my family. She would say that art is anything that that it has an emotional effect on you. That that had more elaboration as well. But I think a lot of art is
01:27:20
Speaker
for shock and value. It's not for emotional value, right? It doesn't develop you emotionally. It just shocks you. And I think that that's where there's some confusion. I'm not against modern art. Mind you, what I call modern art may not be what you call modern art. Definitely a lot of modern art is structural, not paintings per se, and a very experimental
01:27:47
Speaker
And this is mostly just trash, yeah. But looking at the masters of the 20th century, like Jackson Pollock. Jackson Pollock, for many, is modern art. He's my favorite artist. And probably Rothko. Now, a lot of people don't like it because they don't see anything in it, right? And the reason I mention those two modern artists
01:28:18
Speaker
is because what I personally achieve out of looking at them is that I actually can create choreography just by looking at it because it creates an internal spark in me, creative spark in me that other artists don't. You know, I can look at something like Monet or Rembrandt or
01:28:43
Speaker
even Da Vinci, and I don't get anything from it. But visually, it is an exceptional work, right? And many people would have a different experience. This is objectivity of art. Other people will say, I have an amazing experience when I look at that Da Vinci or that Caravaggio or whatever it might be. But I don't, I just see its beauty, but don't get an internal change. But I go and see a Pollock and I go,
01:29:12
Speaker
my entire life has changed. It's subjective. This is why artists are important and variety, not just classicism. We can't just have neoclassical architecture
01:29:31
Speaker
But then there's also modern art, modern architecture that has no, there's nothing on us, no effect on us. I went and I saw Gaudi's church, Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, and I have never had an experience like it. And it is technically modern architecture. It really, it's architecture as art.
01:29:57
Speaker
And it was exceptional. But here is an example of modernization of architecture that has not lost soul, the soul of the art form. And I felt that way about Pollock. But that's just my experience. And so for me, the way that I look at art is if it makes me want to create art,
01:30:19
Speaker
then I should consider it as a way to, if it makes me want to create art, then that is for me the best type of art. Something that gives me, spurs me on to create. And if I see, like my way of creating art is through movement. That's my own way. I'm not a painter, I'm not a musician, I'm not, you know,
01:30:42
Speaker
So if I see movements, as strange as that sounds, if I see movements, listening to music, if I see movement, movement, looking at something or being around something, then this is good art to me. Yeah. Oh, well, I really appreciate that take. And, you know, I'm sitting here kind of psychoanalyzing myself, you know, maybe I read a little too much young, but I'm thinking maybe my hatred for modern art stems from, you know,
01:31:11
Speaker
my quarrels with the modern way of life and, you know, just got it right now, you know? Yeah. They're saying the ballet, like they're a modern, there's modern ballet, modernized ballet that people hate. They hate it. I love it. There's a choreographer called William Forsythe and he did post modern, people hate that term, post modern ballet.
01:31:36
Speaker
And it's the deconstruction and reconstruction of ballet, essentially. And a lot of people just don't get it. And that's fine. It doesn't mean it's a failed art form. And it doesn't mean it's a failed art form for everyone. That's why we need the diversity of art. But I do think the shock value of art is kind of irrelevant. It's all about how much it moves you and changes you, changes your internal milieu or your morphology. If it does that, then it's achieved its goal.
01:32:07
Speaker
So it just may not be for you, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's interesting. That's shock value that you're talking about because, you know, we, it's all about the hook nowadays, right? If we're not looking people on, you know, it's, they're not, they're not getting captured by, you know, I was in Europe recently and you know, we're going through museums and a lot of people are rushing through the museums. You know, they're, they're just having a look.
01:32:37
Speaker
Oh, good. They're rushing. I found that. Sorry about that. I found that in the Louvre, there was so much to see people don't have the time to sit there. And really, every piece of art needs half an hour. It's a modern. Yeah, well, I think it is. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I did the Louvre and it was it was rushed, you know, you can't you couldn't have enough time in there. And
01:33:05
Speaker
you know, my, my favorite museums were the smallest ones, right? Spend the same amount of time or more in them, right? Because you spend more time appreciating the pieces that speak to you as well. Uh, because yeah, I think that's interesting. Not, not every piece spoke to me either. I think that's a really interesting point too, that, you know, it's not just because it's classical either worth a lot of money, you know, but then people's
01:33:29
Speaker
sort of worldview gets intertwined as well. This is the most expensive piece or everyone's there lined up for the Mona Lisa. And look, if you're in the room looking at the Mona Lisa and you're looking around and there's, you know, 30, 50 other beautiful paintings that are seemingly much more intricate than the Mona Lisa, I know there is an interesting story behind it. Yeah. I think, you know, it's just interesting to see, you know, like Musee Adorci. Did you go there? Musee Adorci?
01:33:59
Speaker
No, we didn't actually go. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I'm not an impression, impressionist, artist, fan, personally, I, all I love, you know, by and large, but art needs to really move me, you know, I recently went and saw the master's works, you know, like a lot of the teachings and Caravaggio's and Da Vinci's and things like that.
01:34:22
Speaker
And I got a lot out of it, you know, but it didn't change me. And I don't know whether that's just cultural or my mother's influence because she loved Pollock and things like that. Partly that, you know, I think. And whether their aspirations as to why or why they created that art is different to why I create art. So there could be a correlation there. And definitely artists don't look at art the same way that the general public does.
01:34:51
Speaker
The general public, I think, often will say, oh, that's a famous work, or really proud to be here and see it. That's how they kind of view it. And they walk past Grandmaster's works that they haven't seen before or heard of, so they just ignore them. But they're not famous enough for that.
01:35:06
Speaker
you know, and like that happened at like at the Musee Dorsey, it was all these Edgar Degas, you know, pieces of ballet dancers, and I couldn't care less about it. You know, like, everyone's like, Oh, wow, look at that. Okay. Okay, can we move on? Like, this is, you know, that's just me, you know, and that might be my version of your modern art, you know. But
01:35:29
Speaker
Every situation, every person has a different life experience gets moved by different things. And I think it's fair. Some people love heavy metal. Some people love, for me, awful music. They absolutely love it. It moves them, it makes them feel great. Okay, good. Classical music, we haven't really touched on that, is the music I listen to predominantly, like 90%, which for many people is boring.
01:35:59
Speaker
So, but I have a connection to it is that when I listen to music, I see movement. And so I have this, this add-on, which other people don't have, and it makes it far more interesting. Sit there just choreographing new ballets in my head all the time. You know, one day that might be useful. Um, and that makes it far more enjoyable, far more engaging. Um, but other people just don't have that. So, you know, they will experience it differently. Yeah.
01:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. Yeah. No, that that's really interesting. You know, it's just, it's, it's so individual, right? And we keep coming back to that, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan of that. I love classical, I love classical, but my heart is with the outlaw country, that that's it, you know, old whale jettings. And that is pretty much, that's pretty much it, right? And it's like, you know, you're listening to these songs and it's sad and depressing and oh my goodness, it's all about
01:36:57
Speaker
You know, but the, the stories that, you know, I, I like, it just moves me for some reason, you know, I just think it's the most fascinating stuff to, you know, look at the pain that these people have felt. Right. And they're talking about it. And I think in a way they're trying to, to teach about this pain. They're talking about having the freedom, but you know, freedom comes at a, at a great, great cost, you know, and of course this could require greater discussion, not freedom in a political sense, but
01:37:26
Speaker
You know, to be truly free from all responsibility, you know, you, you have to have absolutely nothing to lose. Absolutely nothing. You know, so I just think it's, it's fascinating, but yeah, that's where, that's where, yeah, that's what I get on to. Well, it's a great thing about nowadays with music, you know, you can access nearly everything, you know, there's not a situation you have to go and search for CDs or, or, um, records in a shop.
01:37:52
Speaker
I have every single known, well, nearly every single known classical piece at my fingertips. It's amazing. Like it never happened before. So we're really lucky we can be exposed to any and everything and take our pick really. And it's a great time to be alive in that way, I think. We're quite lucky. Tell people 30, 40 years ago, our lives, and they would not believe you.
01:38:21
Speaker
they would not believe you. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. That's awesome. Yeah. Oh, this has been a another great chat. I think we covered pretty well everything I want to talk about. Yeah, good. Great, great discussion at the end.
Introduction to Shockwave Therapy
01:38:38
Speaker
Yeah, I really like that. I think, you know, and this might open up a little can of worms. But if you're up for it, to hear a little bit about that, you know, you mentioned earlier, that sound wave,
01:38:50
Speaker
that you use the shockwave sort. Yeah. I'd like to maybe hear you touch on that a little bit. If you don't, if you, if you don't mind, if you have the time, I'd love to hear about that. So shockwave is developed from a device called lithotripsy.
01:39:09
Speaker
And lithotripsy was developed to break kidney stones and is still used, although they also use lasers now with kidney stones. Lithotripsy got repurposed to a product called shockwave therapy. And it's essentially the same, except it's not as powerful. You're going to remember that lithotripsy is under a general anaesthetic. So it's very painful and the amount of shockwave going through the person is much higher and much more pinpointed.
01:39:38
Speaker
to break a stone. But for shockwave, it's broader and it's not as intense. It's using a sound wave. So it's like a, it looks like a gun. And as pressure wave goes through and then it puts a bullet through like a tube and that bullet, it's like really hard and it hits another like panel, which is a, it's called an applicator. And that applicator is made of metal, tungsten,
01:40:08
Speaker
bangs it, and then it creates a sound wave. And that sound wave can be put any frequency you want, and any intensity, and it can be broad or more pinpointed. And traditionally, it was used for things like plantar fascia, tendinopathy, Achilles, things like elbow, you know, and they were like, well, it helps to, you know, enhance repair, things like that, no, with full knowledge that it's inflammatory.
01:40:36
Speaker
And we know that when you test the specimen of, it's in animal models, of course, it's not human models, when you shockwave a specimen, the inflammation levels go right up for the markers go up in the tissue that they've shockwaved. And also the repair enzymes. So all the, whether you believe in genetics or not, the kind of markers of repair activity all go up.
01:41:05
Speaker
And it does another thing, which is really interesting. It creates this weird pressure that forms a thing called a micro bubble. And this is only really ever seen when you create vortexes, vortices, whatever that word is. And so it's clear that the shockwave when applied to tissues, the water itself goes into a vortex due to the pressure gradient.
01:41:33
Speaker
So the pressure, you've got a system and the pressure goes in and the system gets pushed and it goes into this vortex and it probably rotates from there that without the vortex, you wouldn't get these micro bubbles. And so it's my opinion that on top of every other positive thing to do with repair, it also structures water. So I apply it in the same way you would. Many people believe it takes about 30 seconds with a vortex to structure water. There might be other numbers, but
01:42:04
Speaker
And it's hard to say because you can't see the structure internally with a microscope. So you go by feel. Generally, I hold a point for at least 30 seconds to get a change in the structure of the water of the nerves and the cells. And it is my opinion that that is a big part of how it works. Also, why I use infrared light therapies. Infrared is a known thing that structures water, so you do that as well. And it's likely that's one of the main reasons these all work.
01:42:36
Speaker
but shockwave is incredible in that the results are almost immediate. Whereas other therapies, it takes a bit of time, a couple of days, maybe the next day to see results, whereas shockwave is almost immediate change. And that makes me think that it's to do with the restructuring of water because it does that in real time. It doesn't take time to go through the repair process like everything else that's, you know, the repair enzymes will proliferate.
01:43:03
Speaker
and inflammation goes up, and then it goes through a peak in a trough, catabolic, anabolic phases of inflammation and repair, and then that will be a few days later. And people do get a change that is a few days delayed as well, but there is an immediate improvement. And so I use it on vagus nerve issues predominantly, in regards to what we've been talking about, on the nerve itself to help repair it in the areas of which it's likely damaged.
01:43:33
Speaker
It's also improve its neuromobility and to resolve any underlying neuropathies that are there that are contributing to it. I also use it on tissues that are damaged and it's used on fractures as well. So fractured bone is well known to be a difficult thing in certain circumstances like health-related issues that are preventing people from healing or
01:43:59
Speaker
They've failed to heal for whatever reason. Often it's like drinking and smoking, things like that. But either way, you don't even need to consider that. But the point of it is, is that the shockwave can be implemented if you're healthy or not, and it will rapidly increase the healing rate in bone. And so my experience and that's backed up by the research papers is that it generally will halve the time that it takes to repair a fracture.
01:44:26
Speaker
So if it normally would be a three month repair, if it's pretty bad, you shockwave it in the correct way, you could get that down to under two months, a month and a half probably, to full repair. And then there are other factors with fractures, which are to do with the entrapments associated with the scarring and the adhesions, which are separate and they need to be treated accordingly.
01:44:49
Speaker
But the shockwave has got many, many uses. In fact, I've used on endometriosis and have been able to put people in full remission of endometriosis. I think the big one is Crohn's disease and autoimmune conditions. So when you've got tissue that's damaged, say Crohn's intestinal tract, you can apply the shockwave to that tissue and initiate more inflammation and therefore more repair. And every single case I've ever had, I mean, knock on wood,
01:45:19
Speaker
has resolved their Crohn's with shockwave. And this is not just shockwave with Crohn's disease, IBD, and ulcerative colitis as well. It's also that you will do vagus nerve work with them as well. Most Crohn's will also have a component with them, and that's why they got developed in the first place. And dietary interventions are good too. A lot of people try carnivore or carnivore fruitarian,
01:45:46
Speaker
Keto even, or just low grain levels and low fiber. These are useful sometimes. Just reduce the load on the gut. Doesn't have to do as much work during repair. So focus on repair, not on digestion. Other things that I use it on. So I mentioned any damage to organ. So that's very useful. You name an organ, it's likely I've done it and had some success.
01:46:16
Speaker
Um, but even things that you wouldn't anticipate. So one of the ones that I found incredibly interesting is its alternative to using prolotherapy. So a lot of people get prolotherapy.
01:46:30
Speaker
It's an injection of dextrose. And dextrose is an irritant, so it creates inflammation. And the hypothesis is that dextrose irritates the tissue enough to create collagen depositing down and making that joint more stable. So it's used generally for really unstable joints. And a lot of people get that when they've got neck instability, particularly if they can't do neck strengthening. But what's remarkable is that shockwave has the same effect.
01:46:58
Speaker
So you can use shockwave in and around the joints of the neck and you'd think something that's kind of pulverizing someone should actually make it more loose and, you know, all over the place. But actually it stimulates the collagen and the repair. At least for both cases, it's theory with Prolo as well as this. And the neck is more stable.
01:47:20
Speaker
I do wonder whether it's more to do with the nervous system activity, but either way, if you don't have to inject something into you and you just use sound pressure waves, I mean, it can be a bit uncomfortable receiving it, certainly would be a better option because there's less complications. There are many other things that I use it on, probably just forgetting, but for nearly everything, there's an option for shockwave.
01:47:47
Speaker
Yeah, shockwave is just a good, it's a good adjunct, but it's my primary therapy, along with light therapy, needling and other things as well, to just stimulate healing, a change in the nervous system activity, mostly to do with structured water, structuring of the water, and to improve the overall behavior of the person, meaning their muscle activity and pain levels come down. Yeah. Amazing. Is there a worry with EMF?
01:48:17
Speaker
with the sound wave. Yeah. So nerves don't like EMF. Um, I mentioned, I might've mentioned to you the study done with mobile phones in the hand, so it damages the nerve under the hand itself, median nerve. So it's clear that mobile phones are damaging the nerves. Um, that was a randomized controlled trial done. And, um, and they, they could directly attribute it to the amount of electromagnetic 5g, 4g, whatever radiation.
01:48:45
Speaker
And if the phone was on, but I think from memory, if the phone was on and didn't have the, um, data, it was just on the heat. It wasn't enough to do it. Heat doesn't cause damage.
01:49:00
Speaker
One of the things that a lot of people will say about phones is just, oh, it's just a lot of heat. It's not radiation like we're talking about. Yeah, obviously the phone's thermal, but thermal is not damaging, right? So it's definitely the cellular network that's doing it. Other EMFs, it's hard to say. I'm not sure if you talked about this with Daniel Reuters.
01:49:29
Speaker
Where we talk about it all the time, things like, are these the main problems? I am a bit skeptical that 5G is the problem. I know people will say they'll link it up with like metals and they activate metals and body. I mean, it's possible. It's very possible, but there are many, many other explanations. Like German new medicine throws a spanner in the works like a lot, like it throws a lot of stuff out potentially.
01:49:58
Speaker
And my feeling is that it's probably more that. I have a feeling we're far more adaptable than we, when we make out, than we make out. Dr. Harland didn't believe toxins were as bad as people made out as far as these conditions were concerned. He thought we're more resilient than that.
01:50:16
Speaker
And that actually does ring true to me in my gut. It does ring true, but there are certain, certain things that damage the vagus nerve as a primary and not other nerves because they're not at the interface with these, but, and that may be the only kind of example or one of the only things where it doesn't apply. Um, but I do, I don't know about EMFs as far as, um, obviously wifi is a problem.
01:50:41
Speaker
And it's very hard. I'm about to buy something that makes my whole system wired and not, there's no wifi in the house as a result, but there's wifi from next door, you know, and, and if you're in an apartment, well, you just, you've got like 15 signals going through your house. So it's very hard to get away from wifi. And we know that it definitely affects hormonal function and it definitely affects your ability to, to have children. So,
01:51:08
Speaker
Um, what more can it do? I mean, who knows? Um, but I've definitely on the more path with that. Um, but that's as much information that I'm, that I can confirm in my mind. Um, a lot of people will go, I do a whole lecture on it and, um, we'll say it's the cause of everything almost. I don't think it's that, but, um, that's like, I don't think that, you know, um, eating certain foods is bad either. I think.
01:51:38
Speaker
I think that it's, if people want to catch onto one thing and then take it to another level where it becomes the be all and end all, you know, um, that's why a lot of people move out of carnivore and start eating fruit because it's hard to sustain a carnivore diet for a long period of time. Um, personally, and then I understand from a toxin reason, cause it's fun with toxins in grains and vegetables. Then there are, I mean, metals. Um,
01:52:07
Speaker
But it's hard to sustain and I'm not convinced that it's the be all and end all.
01:52:16
Speaker
And it's, it's also a psychological thing. Like if you fear, I did a recent post where we saw that, um, about germaphobes and how they constantly are scared of, you know, constantly wiping their hands, constantly wearing masks and not in completely forgetting the fact that they're being exposed to other toxins, which are far more problematic and probably more real.
The Role of Fear and Diagnosis in Health
01:52:35
Speaker
Um, and, uh, I find that quite ironic. Um, yet, um,
01:52:43
Speaker
I don't want to become a foe too much of everything. You know, like I think there is a psychology to that. You know, if you fear everything, you then develop disease according to, in some ways, going to Germany medicine, like fear is a problem in itself, but maybe just a healthy balance. You know, just try to avoid as much as I drink distilled water for that reason. I only drink distilled.
01:53:09
Speaker
I don't want anything in that water at all. Like I don't want that to be a source of toxicity for me. So I do what I can. I do what I can. I think everyone does try in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a good perspective because you know, fear I think is a universal killer. Whether you fear a vegetable or a certain toxin or EMFs or germs or
01:53:37
Speaker
You know, I do think that the fear is always worse. The fear is all the stress is always worse. I thought there was an interesting, uh, thing I heard once. It was like a happy pizza is better than a sad salad. Now I don't think, you know, they're on the right track with salad being the healthy or option. I agree. You know, I think like I certainly think a healing thing for me is going for Sunday dinner, eating a chicken dinner, and I'm going to eat the vegetables on the side. I'm not going to.
01:54:07
Speaker
fear those vegetables, you know, and I'm eating loved ones. And usually we eat a lot slower as a, you know, when you're eating as a family and in the presence of loved ones, as you were mentioning earlier, being a really important factor. But, you know, there was a time where coming off this sort of germ theory perspective that I had, right, in my earlier years in university, right, I was all raw, raw root, root, modern medicine, germ theory and all that.
01:54:36
Speaker
And then the transition was, you know, now I got to fear all these toxins and I got to fear the chemtrails and the radiation and the, you know, there was even a point, I didn't really buy this one, but everyone was kind of worried about the vaccine shedding and oh, I shouldn't have said that word. You know what I mean? It's different levels, isn't it? It's just different levels of fear and then just innately in us to fear because otherwise we wouldn't survive.
01:55:04
Speaker
Um, I do think at some point we just could live our lives, you know, and, and enjoy it. Um, time to talk, like you said, just family dinner, like who has that, who has that with every meal? I mean, that doesn't, and like, it is a factor. And I, I do talk on health all the time, but they're like, so what should I do? What should I change? You know, like, how am I going to, you know, fix this problem? Like, well, um, firstly, stop worrying about it. Right.
01:55:35
Speaker
If you keep worrying, I mean, it's, it's worse. You know, you can manifest disease that way. It's like people with their injuries. And when I tell them, I say, it's actually not that bad. You need to get rid of that cart, that, you know, moon boot you're got on and start walking normally. You don't need it. And once people unlearn some things about, you know, what's really harming them, um, data has done some good work about, you know, the psychogenic causes of disease and Sydney's book.
01:56:05
Speaker
Um, can you catch cold? Just a bit of a plug there for him. Um, the gave that book away on Instagram. It's great. It's great. It's on the bedside. Yeah, he talked about psychogenic causes and it's amazing. You know, that's probably what happened a lot with COVID and a lot of people got sick just because they thought they should be sick because they got someone was near them and you know, you manifested
01:56:30
Speaker
And we could go in, we won't go into like why that is, but the point of it is, is that if we constantly fear an outcome, a thing like fear cancer, it's great about Germany medicines, like allows you to not fear cancer, which is great. Like it's an amazing thing to remove from your list of things that you're scared of. Right. But if we've constantly fear.
01:56:56
Speaker
We're not really living, are we? We're not really being in the moment. And what's the point anyway? You know, if you're not really being in the moment at all times and enjoying life, enjoying your time with your loved ones, enjoying watching your children grow up, enjoying being with your wife or your husband or part or whatever, or your friends, family, what else is there?
01:57:22
Speaker
You know, and I, I just don't see a lot of the people I work with obsessed. They are obsessed by their health. And, um, there are people who are far sicker, who aren't even bothered by that neither more interested in their family. They're more interested in things and they do far better. They're more interested in their connections and, and, and, um, enjoying their life and they're far more able to change. I can tell you now, um,
01:57:52
Speaker
Even if it's just a starting point, like one of those non-negotiables, like, are you actually putting, you know, the, this diagnosis on a pedestal or are you just moving on and still enjoying every day as it comes? Yeah. Everyone, everyone might say, Oh yeah, but you can't enjoy it if you're in chronic pain. And look, I understand that. And I understand that chronic pain stops you from getting from A to B and doing from, you know, doing things and enjoying.
01:58:21
Speaker
but it does, it does pay to change the way you think about conditions. And that's why when I talk to people and I re explain it in a different way to the way they've been told. Classic one is I've got bone on bone in my hip and that's why I've got chronic pain. And of course that is not true ever. Um, there's no correlation between level of degeneration and pain. It's just a proven fact. It's unrelated.
01:58:50
Speaker
And I say, well, that, that is analogous to wrinkles. The more wrinkles you get on your face, the more degeneration you'll have in your hip. They are from the same cause. It's called aging. It's not because you know, you've got chronic inflammation. It's not because you've got X, Y, and Z. And it's not the reason why you've got pain. Do those wrinkles cause you pain? No. Cartilage doesn't have pain receptors. And then you're saying stuff like that.
01:59:21
Speaker
People then go, oh, well my surgeon said, you know, and I think that's where power in these doctors is too much. And they have a big effect on people and they can lead down the track of I'm not going to enjoy my life until I get this surgery or until I get this drug, until I get over this pain, like they create barriers to living their life. I will not enjoy my life.
01:59:47
Speaker
until I get out of chronic pain or spend the rest of my life trying to fix it. Yeah. There are other reasons for chronic pain. I can tell you now. Definitely. I think the diagnosis is the most problematic part. Exactly. To be quite honest with you, especially with the weight that, the absolute shock. Yeah, but I mean the weight that these, you know, we placed these
02:00:13
Speaker
experts on a pedestal, right? The weight that they carry, their words carry a lot of weight and fuss and a lot of meaning. And, you know, there's an interesting psychotherapeutic technique that I've been looking into a little bit. And we learned about it in school, actually funny enough in my master's and it's the narrative technique. And largely it's, it's concerned with taking your problem and putting it on a chair in the room and acting as if it's a third party.
02:00:40
Speaker
And rather than identifying with these problems that you think that make you as a person, right? Like I'm an anxious person. No, you're not an anxious person. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I am a depressed person. I am, I am a cancer patient. You know, that holds you into that mindset of, you know, you can't be anything else than that at that point, you know? And when I was talking with the Biggleson brothers, it was just so absolutely amazing. They were talking about.
02:01:10
Speaker
you know, how their father healed so many people of cancer. And, you know, it was like a one month intervention and he, this lady came up to him after and she says, okay, well, so when, when do I have to come back? And he says, well, you, you don't, you know, you don't have cancer anymore. She's like, well, what am I going to do? You know, what am I, what am I supposed to do? Like I am a, I have cancer. I'm a cancer patient. Like what I need, I can't come back and see you again. And.
02:01:36
Speaker
You know, he's like, no, you have to go and live your life, you know, and yeah, focus on the relations and the, you know, living. You know, so it's kind of funny how this can really pigeonhole you into this idea of I am this, I am that, whether it be negative or positive, you know, you can see it with first the athletes a lot, you know, they get held up in this idea that they're an athlete, you know, and then school's done and they slip into this depression and they don't know
02:02:06
Speaker
anything about their identity and they have probably, I see this a lot in sort of my age group right now, you know, I think it's really problematic. They come out and they're like, what am I supposed to do? Who am I at this point? They're like having this identity crisis.
Holistic Health: Emotional and Physical Healing
02:02:18
Speaker
So I think that's really interesting. And I think taking the weight off these diagnosis or whatever it may be, you know, we,
02:02:26
Speaker
I think that's, that's half of the battle there. Well, it's got to stop them from getting better. You know, in many ways, I think, you know, going back to Dr. Harmer's work and some initial emotional reason, like I've got cases where something happened to them.
02:02:41
Speaker
It was devastating, but they didn't want to deal with it. And they developed a condition thereafter, and it might be any number of conditions, autoimmune, cancer, degenerative diseases, things like that, or dysautonomia in some cases, it is that. When you breach the subject of what happened,
02:03:06
Speaker
you can tell it's unresolved. It's unresolved. It's not one to go to. And I've found these conditions to, you know, and part of the diagnosis is like, Oh, I've got to finally get a diagnosis for my problem, which further eliminates the need to go back and deal with that emotional problem. You know, and I think that's what diagnostics do. They, they distract from the original cause.
02:03:37
Speaker
I take a broader approach. You know, I explain what that diagnosis means structurally at face value, objectively, what it really means. Does it mean anything at all? Um, and I do think sometimes you can say, look, I will do my best to treat that, but we also need to deal with the original cause. You know, like we need to deal with this emotion that you've not really processed.
02:04:08
Speaker
And sometimes it's, you know, for women, a lot of it's the feel like if they have failed IVF, for example, they may, or they have a breakup men or women, and they might feel that might be the catalyst. I've seen that all so many times a breakup is what I'm not able to have children as a result. And it might present in numerous ways, according to Hama, but, um, I've seen it as a common one for women. And then,
02:04:39
Speaker
They aren't really dealing with that. They don't see the correlation firstly, but then they don't deal with the facts of that because they don't know if they can process it. And I don't think every psychotherapy method really works for everyone. You know, in some circumstances, it might be EMDR, it might be brain spotting, two things I do like.
02:05:00
Speaker
Hypnotherapy is effective for some people if it's done right. Other forms of psychotherapy, more traditional ones as well. But it's not going to be the same for everyone. Not every therapist is going to work well for you. And maybe it requires some actions of your own, some lifestyle changes, some structural changes in who you talk to and what you talk to them about, things like that.
02:05:29
Speaker
And I think if we have that down as a potential root cause, then we don't negate it. And we don't focus on this diagnosis of cancer or diagnosis of something else like rheumatoid arthritis or Hashimoto's disease or whatever it might be. And then you constantly try to fix that. If you only deal with the emotion, I think that is fine. But I also think it might be of greater value to deal with both.
02:05:56
Speaker
to assist the body through these patterns, these sympathetic and vagrotonic phases, whatever, which way you may seem appropriate, deem appropriate. And, uh, that I think that's more holistic. And then they feel like at a non-conscious and at a conscious level, something's being done. And that has a positive effect on the body as well. Yeah. They're hitting in the right direction.
02:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, we've got to have that got to give that to people. And otherwise, I agree. Yeah. And I think we can accelerate these processes. I've seen that. That's my experience. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why I think we can't negate the physical aspect as well. Right. And treating the toxin or the efficiency, whether whatever it is, right. Because, you know, that fellow I mentioned earlier that I was talking with, you know, he said, German new medicine will tell you that you're, you know, you have AIDS and you have a sexual conflict.
02:06:55
Speaker
You know, but it's negating the fact that you're also a heroin addict and you're injecting heroin into yourself, right? Like it's like, um, now I think that's a pretty extreme take on. It definitely doesn't, I don't agree. That's not what Dr. Harmon would say. No. Okay. Well, that's yeah. I think that's just rushing up. Yeah. If you read it one paragraph about German new medicine, you would say that, but you read his topics on toxicity definitely creates a, it's a big factor in the development of diseases.
02:07:24
Speaker
and stops people from going forward. Yeah. Well, that's, I don't think that's contradictory to say that. Awesome. I love it. Yeah. I love it. That's great. Okay. Any final thoughts from you? Anything you want to add or you think you made a mess? I think it was great to talk about journey medicine. I think that was a important, important, um, uh, direction to go in. I think that, you know, we're in a field that is burgeoning.
02:07:50
Speaker
I know it's been around for a long time, but it's now far more prevalent in the psyche of a lot of clinicians. Daniel's book's really helping, and the Bailey's work, Cowan, Kauffman, and others, of course. We've all got our place as far as what we're talking about. My area is the nervous system.
02:08:19
Speaker
I think it's probably a missing piece, but I have that bias. I'll admit it. I think that as we get ourselves into a situation where things are much clearer as to what really is going on in the world of health in regards to the biology of the human being, we
02:08:38
Speaker
We're going to start to see things change dramatically in that people will not see hospitals and doctors in the same way and doctors will have to change. It will change everything if we continue on this good trend that we're in, that we're on. And I think
02:08:57
Speaker
It's going to take a bit of time. I reckon it's going to take 20 years from now before we see it far more mainstream. It might take another 100 to get it to medicine, but we've got to start somewhere and we've got to keep pushing, okay, and keep searching for the truth.
Evolving Health Paradigms
02:09:16
Speaker
even if it means we make some mistakes on the way in our hypotheses. We keep trying to find the truth. And I think like every month after, since I last talked to you, I've learned many, many, many things and I feel like I'm a different person still. And I'll be the same in six months time.
02:09:34
Speaker
I'll be talking about other things on top of everything and saying, oh, what I said was wrong, actually, we've got more evidence now. And so as the evidence emerges, we might have to just reorientate, but we can't stay on an ideology just because it's where we started. We don't, we can change and then understand that the direction that we're going in is the right one, but we will need to pivot
02:10:04
Speaker
as evidence emerges. Be flexible, be flexible. And don't throw everything, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, you know, don't throw the entire lot out. You know, it's a straw man argument to say that, because you got that wrong, everything's wrong. You know, like, I think we don't need to think of it like that. We can just re examine it.
02:10:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't need to throw everything out, but it's valuable to question everything. Exactly. Right. You know, there's no reason why something, if it is the truth, it should be able to face scrutiny, like it to great lengths as well. Like people's life worked trying to disprove something, you know, if it's the truth, it's the truth. Uh, and so there's no reason why.
02:11:02
Speaker
We can't look back and rethink what we even know with the train paradigm, you know? And I think that's important because we don't want to shift from one dogma to the next. No. And we just don't want to become them. We did not want to become them. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's going to be it. I think that's a challenging thing as you evolve in life too. I feel like people tend towards, you know, close mindedness and stubbornness. I think that's, you've got to stay.
02:11:32
Speaker
on the fence about everything and just, and just wait and go, yeah, it's very, everything's possible or never say that's not correct at all. I think we can definitely say that about germ theory though. Um, so this is a post germ theory world. We can say, I say autoimmunity is unlikely to be correct based on what we see. And it's more likely to be more of a reparative process, you know, and
02:11:58
Speaker
You just, and we all fall for it. You know, I fall for being, um, having hyperbole or something like that. You know, um, I, I, the main thing is to just re remind ourselves that we're trying to find the truth. So that means that we have to question ourselves as well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting, like,
02:12:24
Speaker
Uh, I've been looking into viruses a lot lately, again, uh, just kind of going through with fine tooth comb and, um, the idea of a viral particle is not something that's necessarily off the table for me now. Are they self-replicating disease causing particles? I, I think that, you know, that's been disproving quite well. Um, but the idea of a particle like during cellular breakdown.
02:12:53
Speaker
is not necessarily an absurd idea to me, right? Like I think there's still value in these empirical observations that are made, that are used by this modern science, right? I think that there is a certain extent of value in it now. Um, I guess we shouldn't get into this discussion too much, but you know, I think that's what it is. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water. We can keep from the textbooks, right? Like, you know,
02:13:19
Speaker
just a different interpretation, maybe, maybe a different lens. We just different, you know, it's like the microbiome dysbiosis theory. Um, I have a completely different lens on it. Like it's an appropriate change. Um, and that those so-called things that cause it are actually, you know, the remedy is in the change. So, you know, because, because I don't believe that microbes cause disease, I see them as helping, helping us out.
02:13:49
Speaker
Then of course I'm going to look that in that way, right? And of course that isn't itself a bias and it has its problems, you know, logical fallacies, things like that. But something has to contradict the main narrative. We have to have a contradictory hypothesis to prove or to attest. At the moment there is none.
02:14:10
Speaker
There are none. So my contradiction would be that they have a role to play and this is what they do. And here's some evidence for that fact. I have that and that's what I talk on a lot. The bioremediation effects, things like that. And for people to say, that's not possible. They, they cause disease. I said, well, you know, what evidence do you have? We don't have that really. It's all circumstantial evidence.
02:14:37
Speaker
So truthfully, we're all both at the same position where, you know, someone said to me once, you know, you can't, you cannot put a post up unless you fully referenced it. Yeah. But what if no one's ever thought about this? Literally like you, you, you can come up with an idea that is revolutionary and no one's tested. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned. Yeah.
02:15:04
Speaker
because the alternative theory is still hypothetical. It's not proven. So there's nothing to really like, it's not like they have evidence, you know? So yeah, that's why I, I, I get into rumbles with people. No, no, I agree. And I think, uh, like you're mentioning, I think that it is important to, to note that, you know, if you're concerning, if you're concerned with empiricism falsification,
02:15:34
Speaker
is a very valuable method. Now, I don't think the consensus or the modern scientists really adhere to that because we could see that a lot of these theories are falsified, right? And this is the way to objectively look at empiricism because it doesn't rely on any sort of induction. We can see what is wrong now. I do think to a certain extent, we are able to say that something's incorrect.
02:16:03
Speaker
without proposing an alternative hypothesis. Yes, I agree. I do think that there's only one way forward, right? We want it. We're looking for the truth. You need a new paradigm. That is the way forward, but at this point in time, we need to get people on board with a way forward, right? If we're dogmatic in our thinking and close-minded and thinking that there is no way forward, no one's going to go for it, right? So you do need to disprove the earlier paradigm to get people moving towards a new one. So we may not have
02:16:32
Speaker
the empirical facts and observations and inductions that they have in the modern lens, but we're still able to say that this incorrect. Yeah. If I was in a position of high level professor and I made a judgment call on where the research should go, that would have much greater power, even if it's just on pure opinion. This is the problem, right?
02:16:56
Speaker
This is why I think I might have mentioned it last time, not sure if I did. Neuroplasticity was always considered pseudoscience because none of the professors were willing to research it, even though all the younger ones were like, no, this is definitely real. And then it took them all dying out for it to occur and become mainstream. And now we accept that nerves change.
02:17:18
Speaker
because the evidence is there, but it went against their dogma, right? And that's what we need to battle. But at a face-to-face level, when we're talking to someone in a group, we need an alternative explanation. In an argument, you need an alternative. Even though it may not be appropriate, you think, well, academically, you would say,
02:17:40
Speaker
for this argument, meaning to say that it doesn't exist, does not mean I need to give you alternative. And certainly if you're talking to the academic, that is true. When you're dealing with general public who are not academics and don't think in that way, they think more through their own experiences, you need to say, look, here is a better explanation. And that is an alternative explanation. And you can create doubt by showing there are alternatives.
02:18:10
Speaker
And doubt is really important when questioning dogma. If you create doubt, then no longer that dog, that dogma doesn't have the power over you. And so that's a really good way to argue or to convince people.
Integrating Diverse Health Theories
02:18:22
Speaker
I'm not trying to convince people, but I'm trying to give them an alternative viewpoint that it's not as simple as you think. And here, let's make this black and white thing gray. Okay, now it's gray.
02:18:35
Speaker
Here is the alternative explanation and here is the evidence for it. Are you more convinced by that? And here is the current dogma and here's the evidence for it, which is more convincing.
02:18:46
Speaker
And maybe some will have their ideas based on their weird experiences that suggest that, I don't know, it's definitely that because, you know, they have dogma themselves. But I think for a majority of people, they're ready to change, they're ready to get out of that dogma that they're in. And there's dogma in natural medicine, too, like it's for that, like the whole thing, green pharmacy, for example, dysbiosis, leaky gut ideology, all sorts of things which I don't agree upon, agree on.
02:19:16
Speaker
they need to let go of that in order to look at the new theory as possible. Because if that's wrong, it means what they've been doing was wrong. And some people don't want that feeling. They don't want the feeling of I've been doing the wrong thing for the last 10 years or whatever. And that does not feel good for anyone.
02:19:35
Speaker
Um, I certainly, you know, my approach to say like condition called SIBO was different and I would, I would give antimicrobials. I'd give, you know, this whole protocol that I would use based on my training. Now my approach is utterly like flipped and it works. You know, I was wondering, I seem as we are to treat, if you use standardized protocols, it tends to want to come back, you know, and, and you don't really.
02:20:02
Speaker
You don't have the capacity to question it because I don't mean to go into CVO too much, but it's like if you don't have an alternative that's credible and you don't have people telling you that it is credible, you're not going to go down that path.
02:20:19
Speaker
And it took years of unlearning and learning alternative viewpoints to, for me to come to a completely different theory on that. See that for example. And as contradictory as it is, it's a far better approach for me. And I feel so much more able to look at it and go, this feels more right. The other one didn't. It felt wrong doing it, but I didn't have an alternative and just, we're just going to give people alternatives and many will just come to this side.
02:20:49
Speaker
Well, I think that's amazing. I think that's very, very valuable. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I couldn't agree more. And in a way, yeah. We can't fragment. Our group can't fragment. It's already fragmented. And we just got to remember that we're all in it to find the truth. Don't push one narrative as being the be all and end all. You're actually damaging the terrain movement.
02:21:17
Speaker
The key is to stay agnostic about nearly as much as possible meaning open-minded and not falling for one in one way and Looking at all the possibilities and be ready to change at any point You know and and that's why I'm like, you know there's some home truths that we need to accept that we're fragmented and
02:21:45
Speaker
And if we don't unify and work together, then the movement will be destroyed by ourselves. And it is a movement. And Daniel and I work together, you know, um, from very different places, which is what we need. We need to diversify our knowledge bases and then come to a common new idea together and see how all of our
02:22:15
Speaker
our viewpoints come together and how can we create unified theories, a unified theory? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. That's it. That's exactly it right there. Yeah. That's what we need to do moving forward. Yeah. That's what we're working towards. And I just think back to my chat with Phoenix or Elias, like, um,
02:22:40
Speaker
You know, because even coming into this, before starting this podcast, you know, I really demonized the modern ways quite a bit and still do still my bias. Um, you know, even though I'm a little hypocritical because we're here using technology and driving my car and living the house. And, um, you know, uh, he mentioned that we're taking all these theories, these specific theories, all these different branches of science and we need to bring them back together. We need to bring them all together. We can't talk about.
02:23:09
Speaker
the microbiome without talking about the nervous system. You know, we need to have all of the, we need to talk about anatomy. We need to talk about physiology or whatever it may be. It needs to come together. Full integration. Yeah. Yeah. Full integration. I think that's new. Full integration. And so we need to get our heads together. I don't know how we're going to do that, but you know, I'm the nervous system guy. Okay. We've got a, another field, you know, someone who's expert in light, someone who's expert in X and Y and Z and, uh,
02:23:39
Speaker
I think Dan's pretty on to immunology or the lack of and that's his place and nutrition. If we put our heads together and start talking, we actually will just like physicists, whether you agree with physics or not,
02:23:55
Speaker
You know, that's the only way they come to really credible theories, you know, and we're in this theoretical phase at the moment in terrain. Um, you could say you're a theoretical biologist. I'm not sure if that's a real thing, but, um, you know, I think we need to find a new direction and we have to work together, not against each other. And if you work against others, because you say, well, they did, they say this and they say that they're wrong. They're idiots. You know, a lot of people do that. Um, that's not progressing the field.
02:24:25
Speaker
You know, um, it's about, it's not about each one of us, our own opinion. It's about coming together and saying, all right, you say your thing, you say your thing, you say, I'll say mine and let's discuss. Um, and then we can actually get to the bottom of what's going on and maybe we can have good arguments about it, but at the moment they're just not really a mechanism for that. Yeah.
02:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. I'll put Emma Scoldsworthy. Thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate your time. Like I said earlier, I really think that, I think that your vision with this is strong and I think it's very important. And so I appreciate everything you do. Um, Vegas nerve. It's an amazing book. I look forward to reading more work from you, honestly. And, and we have these conversations. It's, it's amazing.
02:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, the next direction will be to convert that book into full terrain ideology. That book is all about getting into doctors' heads and other clinicians' heads in their own language. That's why it's written in that language. But to get them more on this side, you've got to bring them over slowly. You can't speak in a different language.
02:25:57
Speaker
So just be aware of that reading that is aimed to bring people out of the dogma in the direction of terrain. And so next it's about putting together the book on the unified theory and the starting point. You know, it's not going to be the definitive answer. It'll be the start of the hypothesis and the theory.
02:26:20
Speaker
And, and, uh, I think it'll be really helpful. And, um, I just, I want people to, to just have a broader perspective. That's, and that's the aim of bringing this content out. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Thank you again. Thank you for having me. Absolutely.
02:26:43
Speaker
And I want to thank you all for listening. You should know that this is not medical advice. This is for your informational purposes only, of course. But remember, we're all sovereign, responsible beings, capable of thinking, criticizing, understanding everything. I think we really hit that nail on the head in this episode. Go and learn. That's what's empowering. You know, we're the people in the greater forest are together, self healers, self-governable, self teachers, and so much more. Please reach out.
02:27:09
Speaker
If you have any comments, criticisms, concerns, whatever it may be, love to chat about this stuff. Uh, you know where to find me on Instagram beyond dot terrain. Uh, and I really, really appreciate all of you who reach out, reach out to chat, reach out to criticize. It's just as valuable. I appreciate all the criticism just as much as I do the positive comments. Um, yeah, anybody who takes the time to reach out. Uh, I really appreciate and take time to listen to all these podcasts episodes. I think they're so very valuable and I think, uh,
02:27:40
Speaker
We're on the cusp of something amazing here. So I think we're on it already a little bit too. So yeah, if you like this podcast, give us a like, share, comment, review, you know what to do on your platform. And just remember, there's two types of people in the world. Those believe they can, those believe they can't, and they are both correct. All right, guys, take care.