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Judge Lynn Toler Holds Court with The Queens
36 Plays4 years ago
The Honorable Judge Lynn Toler is this week's guest! Mother, Author, TV Star - former presiding Judge of Divorce Court and current host of Hip Hop Bootcamp. She shares with us her tips for raising HV sons, working through relationship woes, and advice for women facing divorce.
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Transcript
Introduction and AMA Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up, Queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
This is your host, Savannah.
00:00:03
Speaker
And before we begin the show this week, I have a special announcement.
00:00:07
Speaker
I am pleased to announce that I'll be taking part in an Ask Me Anything during the first week of August, sponsored by FTS, for our Patreon subscribers at The Queen Shit and The Level Up Tears.
00:00:17
Speaker
You can ask me about how I like my tea, British weather, it's not great, British gentlemen, or anything else.
00:00:24
Speaker
No topic will be off limits.
00:00:26
Speaker
To take part in the AMA, please sign up to our website at www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com and then send us a message on our Patreon www.patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy to receive your special Patreon badge for the website.
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to reading and answering your questions and I cannot wait to hear from you all.
00:00:49
Speaker
On to the show.
Interview with Judge Lynn Toler
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest-only female podcast on the internet.
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm your host, DeRoe.
00:01:02
Speaker
And this is Savannah.
00:01:03
Speaker
And this is Willa.
00:01:05
Speaker
And today we have a very special guest, the Honorable Judge Lynn Toler.
00:01:10
Speaker
You may know her from Divorce Court as well as the current host of Hip Hop Marriage Boot Camp.
00:01:16
Speaker
She is also the author of My Mother's Rules, A Practical Guide to Becoming an Emotional Genius.
00:01:21
Speaker
Judge Lynn Toler.
00:01:22
Speaker
Hi, how are you?
00:01:24
Speaker
Hello.
00:01:24
Speaker
Hello.
00:01:25
Speaker
Good to be here.
00:01:28
Speaker
Glad to have you here.
00:01:29
Speaker
It's good to be here.
00:01:30
Speaker
It really is.
00:01:31
Speaker
So as we were discussing before we started hitting record, you have had a cross-continental influence because Savannah was the person who was like, hey, we got to get Lynn Toler on the show.
00:01:43
Speaker
Because she absolutely loves your show and has learned so much about relationships from it that we also talk about here on the podcast.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:01:52
Speaker
100%.
00:01:52
Speaker
Because I found Female Dating Strategy in about 2019.
00:01:55
Speaker
And I've been watching Divorce Court since about...
00:02:00
Speaker
2015.
00:02:00
Speaker
It was my older sister who introduced me to Divorce Corp.
00:02:04
Speaker
And it's very similar to FDS in that it doesn't... It's very straight talking, isn't it?
00:02:11
Speaker
That's what I really loved about the show.
00:02:13
Speaker
And I felt like the women who appeared on that show
00:02:18
Speaker
They went away empowered, even though the answer to their relationship problem may not have been, you know, what they wanted to hear, such as, you need to leave this dude.
00:02:26
Speaker
But, you know, it was your entire approach to helping them to understand, to put themselves first and to not...
00:02:33
Speaker
to not basically accept any like crap just to keep a man.
00:02:37
Speaker
And that's what really, really resonated with that.
00:02:38
Speaker
Right, right.
Historical and Modern Views on Women's Self-Worth
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:39
Speaker
You know, I did talk to a lot of young women on the show and actually older women as well.
00:02:44
Speaker
And I think women often find that their sense of self-worth is so intricately intertwined with their status as far as being married or not married.
00:02:54
Speaker
And sociologically, of course, that's what we're going to do because for millennia, it was like you were defined by whether you're
00:03:02
Speaker
what male you were attached to.
00:03:04
Speaker
And now that we are in this new age where male attachment is not necessary to function in society, nonetheless, we still like having them.
00:03:13
Speaker
We still enjoy them.
00:03:15
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:03:17
Speaker
We want to touch one and bring him home.
00:03:19
Speaker
So, or bring him home and touch him.
00:03:21
Speaker
I think that's a better order for things.
00:03:25
Speaker
So we have to figure out how to navigate this new normal.
00:03:30
Speaker
And,
00:03:32
Speaker
Love our relationships, enjoy our relationships, pursue our relationships, but don't be defined and destroyed by them.
Dating Advice: Avoiding Overcommitment
00:03:39
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:03:41
Speaker
I mean, so just feeding off from that, like Judgeline, in your time on divorce court and on the bench, what would you say are the biggest mistakes that women make when it comes to dating and to being in a relationship with a man?
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:58
Speaker
Too much too soon.
00:03:59
Speaker
That's number one.
00:04:01
Speaker
I mean, we're, you know, dudes, I said this on a show once, dudes do a wonderful thing.
00:04:07
Speaker
They go out on a date and they enjoy the date.
00:04:10
Speaker
We in the middle of the day thinking, huh, well, this is looking good.
00:04:15
Speaker
That box is checked off.
00:04:16
Speaker
No, I don't like that.
00:04:17
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:04:19
Speaker
Is he the one?
00:04:19
Speaker
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:04:20
Speaker
We tend to do that a lot.
00:04:22
Speaker
And I would like you to enjoy the date just for that.
00:04:26
Speaker
We're big on that with female dating strategy.
00:04:29
Speaker
And we actually advocate for women to get in the habit of dating, if you can, like multiple guys so that you can stay in the moment when you're on a date rather than always every new man that you see, like projecting the future onto him.
00:04:41
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:04:44
Speaker
It leans itself sometimes to women over committing themselves to men who haven't committed themselves to the woman if they don't kind of look at their dating pool in a broad way.
00:04:56
Speaker
Right.
00:04:56
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:04:57
Speaker
And we need to dabble more.
00:04:59
Speaker
And I mean, you can dabble with your clothes on.
00:05:01
Speaker
You don't have to do a whole lot of... Yes.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:05
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yes.
00:05:06
Speaker
You can wait before sex.
00:05:08
Speaker
Come on.
00:05:09
Speaker
And it's like...
00:05:11
Speaker
You're like, I don't need that.
00:05:12
Speaker
I don't need you, but I'm checking you out.
00:05:14
Speaker
I'm checking you out.
00:05:15
Speaker
What's happening over here?
00:05:16
Speaker
You know, always be honest, always be true.
00:05:19
Speaker
Hey, I'm just trying to find what I like here.
00:05:23
Speaker
And men will sit there and like, you know, like you become hard to attain.
00:05:29
Speaker
And that makes them competition for one another as opposed to you're seeking to cuff one up and lock him down.
Gender Dynamics in Marriage
00:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, he should be the one trying to cuff you, not you trying to cuff him.
00:05:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:05:45
Speaker
Exactly.
00:05:46
Speaker
That's how we do here.
00:05:47
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:05:48
Speaker
And it's, you know, when you get married, it's such a boon for the guy.
00:05:55
Speaker
Most divorces are started by women, statistically.
00:05:58
Speaker
The vast majority, 70 to 80 percent, depends on the time, depends on where, are started by women.
00:06:04
Speaker
And typically, women are far less likely to remarry.
00:06:10
Speaker
Because they don't want to, because we tend to give so much in the marriage relationship.
00:06:14
Speaker
I'm responsible for all of the health care.
00:06:17
Speaker
You know, I worry about his food.
00:06:19
Speaker
I look at him.
00:06:20
Speaker
What is he doing?
00:06:21
Speaker
Men live longer when they're with us.
00:06:23
Speaker
We do so much in knitting together that relationship that you ought to feel like I'm going to give you so much if you get me.
00:06:34
Speaker
You got to work to put me in that position.
00:06:37
Speaker
Absolute facts.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
There's so many tangible, intangible benefits to having a woman in your life.
00:06:46
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:06:47
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:06:48
Speaker
Like best case scenario, he'll have a medium or neutral effect on your life, but in more cases than not, he'll have an actively harmful effect on your life.
00:06:56
Speaker
So I always say I need a wife.
00:06:59
Speaker
I got a husband.
00:07:01
Speaker
I need a wife.
00:07:03
Speaker
I need somebody to to worry about it and and wonder about eventualities.
00:07:07
Speaker
What are you doing tomorrow?
00:07:08
Speaker
Do you have it?
00:07:10
Speaker
We do all of that.
00:07:12
Speaker
And it's funny because when I started traveling for divorce court because I was living in Ohio and we've taped out in L.A.,
00:07:20
Speaker
My husband had a whole new, because I'd be gone for two weeks, and he'd come back.
00:07:24
Speaker
He was shell-shocked.
00:07:26
Speaker
He had no idea what was going on while I was there.
00:07:30
Speaker
Just none.
00:07:32
Speaker
So we do a lot at the crib, and you've got to remember that.
00:07:36
Speaker
And so it's funny that we're the ones always wanting to lock down a committed relationship, but they benefit far more from that committed relationship than we do typically.
00:07:47
Speaker
Not always or exceptions, but typically.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's what we want to turn on its head because it makes no sense for men if they benefit more from relationships.
00:07:56
Speaker
It makes no sense for women to be the ones who are constantly trying to lock it down.
00:08:00
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:08:00
Speaker
And we were talking about that with the pandemic about how much more labor women are putting in right now because they're the ones a lot of times that are taking less hours at work so they can take care of family.
00:08:11
Speaker
Not just their children, but like their larger extended family, which may be sick.
00:08:16
Speaker
A lot of that kind of work and emotional labor and work on developing the family falls on women.
00:08:22
Speaker
And it's been really, really, really clear this past year and a half just how much that's true.
00:08:27
Speaker
Absolutely true.
00:08:28
Speaker
I was talking to a girlfriend of mine not too long ago and her mother was, you know, older and she left town and left her brother in charge.
00:08:36
Speaker
And I said, and he said, well, you know, he's a dude.
00:08:40
Speaker
So he did about a third of what he was supposed to do because he didn't even think that way.
00:08:46
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:08:47
Speaker
We think in layers and layers and layers and layers and layers.
00:08:50
Speaker
And this isn't a negative thing on that.
00:08:53
Speaker
It's just how they do business.
00:08:55
Speaker
They do this one thing along the line while we're like they're like a laser and we're like photon bursts.
00:09:02
Speaker
We take care of a whole lot of stuff all at once.
00:09:05
Speaker
And you don't really realize how much we do because we do so much of it so quietly.
00:09:11
Speaker
that you don't see it.
00:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's so bizarre to me how men simultaneously undervalue the work that women do, but are also so dependent on it.
00:09:20
Speaker
So dependent on it.
00:09:22
Speaker
Just, I mean, just so dependent on it.
00:09:25
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:09:26
Speaker
They know it when it's gone.
00:09:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:28
Speaker
They realize it when it's gone.
00:09:31
Speaker
My sister's a doctor and she's a neurologist.
00:09:35
Speaker
And when she has a guy and he's got a wife, she won't let them come to an office visit without the wife because the wife does all the talking.
00:09:47
Speaker
The guy will always say she'll ask them how they feel and they'll say fine.
00:09:52
Speaker
And a lot of neurological changes can be small, aphasias and different things that are signs that men will either ignore or simply don't want to say I'm weak or this, that or the other thing.
00:10:04
Speaker
So she always says, listen, if you've got a wife, bring her because she's going to give me better information than you are.
00:10:09
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:10:11
Speaker
No, that's so true.
00:10:12
Speaker
I have so many.
00:10:13
Speaker
I had a great uncle who died of bladder cancer because he didn't tell anyone that he was peeing blood for like two years.
00:10:21
Speaker
And it was only when his wife found out that she dragged him to the doctor's office.
00:10:26
Speaker
But by then it was too late.
00:10:27
Speaker
It was like stage four.
00:10:30
Speaker
If he told her like two years earlier, it could have saved his life.
00:10:34
Speaker
And it was interesting when I, my husband had a gallbladder surgery once and I was sitting in the waiting room and everybody who came in, whether it was a CEO or a construction worker, if a dude, if it was a dude coming for a procedure, the woman came up to the front desk and did the business and they stood back.
00:10:55
Speaker
They stood back.
00:10:56
Speaker
And it was because, and that's what I did.
00:11:00
Speaker
When I came in, I said, he's here for this, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:04
Speaker
And, you know.
00:11:05
Speaker
No wonder they don't live as long as we do.
00:11:07
Speaker
God.
00:11:07
Speaker
So this kind of lends to our next question, because so often these kinds of tasks are taken care of by women.
00:11:17
Speaker
Why it's important for a lot of women to ask for marriage and get married.
00:11:21
Speaker
Because having this ability is a lot of times precluded on you actually being this person's wife and actually having a legal piece of paper.
00:11:30
Speaker
Whereas, you know, if you're sick or he's sick and you don't have marriage, it's a little bit trickier.
00:11:35
Speaker
What kinds of things in your...
00:11:38
Speaker
lifetime and in your career that you've observed, maybe disadvantage women by not getting married?
00:11:45
Speaker
Or what would you say are the biggest advantages of marriage?
00:11:48
Speaker
And are you pro-marriage?
00:11:49
Speaker
Do you believe in marriage?
00:11:50
Speaker
I guess I should have asked.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:52
Speaker
Why is it bad to be a forever girlfriend?
00:11:54
Speaker
Or is it bad to be a forever girlfriend?
00:11:56
Speaker
Not even.
00:11:57
Speaker
Not if you're cool with it.
00:11:58
Speaker
I got a girlfriend from high school, never got married, been with this guy longer than I've been with my dude, and she's fine.
00:12:04
Speaker
She doesn't have a problem with it.
00:12:06
Speaker
They live in New York.
00:12:07
Speaker
They're both high-powered, this, that, or the others, and she's cool with it.
00:12:10
Speaker
She doesn't want it.
00:12:12
Speaker
I like being married, first of all.
00:12:14
Speaker
I like the fact that
00:12:15
Speaker
You know, you go into the hospital and he's your boyfriend.
00:12:17
Speaker
Doctor don't know you from Adam.
00:12:19
Speaker
You're nobody.
00:12:19
Speaker
You're a legal stranger to him.
00:12:21
Speaker
He gets he's comatose or something.
00:12:24
Speaker
His parents can decide what happens to him and you're going to be the one taking care of him.
00:12:28
Speaker
But you don't have any legal rights because because you're not married.
00:12:33
Speaker
If he dies suddenly.
00:12:35
Speaker
You know, all that stuff he's got, you're not legally attached to him, economically attached to him.
00:12:41
Speaker
None of that.
00:12:44
Speaker
My husband's an accountant.
00:12:45
Speaker
There are tax reasons why marriage is a good thing.
00:12:50
Speaker
If you do have children, it is a good thing to have that.
00:12:54
Speaker
What a marriage often does, like for years 18, 19, and 20, I ain't like my husband at all.
00:13:03
Speaker
Do you hear me?
00:13:05
Speaker
I, you know, I just soon shot him and said hello to him.
00:13:10
Speaker
But we had kids and I'm like, look, they're teenagers.
00:13:15
Speaker
I can't, I can't raise them boys by myself.
00:13:19
Speaker
And we made it work.
00:13:23
Speaker
And I called my mother and she told me how to change the situation.
00:13:26
Speaker
I took
00:13:28
Speaker
17, 18 years to get me in this mess.
00:13:29
Speaker
It took me like three years to get out of it, but we figured it out.
00:13:32
Speaker
But marriage is like, look, I am committed to the proposition of staying with you.
00:13:38
Speaker
And that means we're both going to have to work.
00:13:41
Speaker
And when you have that kind of commitment, when you put it on paper, when the law knows it, when, when medicine knows it, uh, it makes you feel better.
00:13:53
Speaker
And if it's such a not, not big a deal, uh,
00:13:56
Speaker
As they say, well, what's the piece of paper?
00:13:58
Speaker
What value is it?
00:14:00
Speaker
If it makes me happy and feel secure, what's your problem?
00:14:03
Speaker
Exactly.
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:04
Speaker
The piece of paper thing makes me so mad.
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:07
Speaker
It's just a piece of paper.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:08
Speaker
You want to go.
00:14:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:09
Speaker
If you're looking to stay single so you can go without any technical problems and I don't want to deal with you because I don't want you up and rocking off.
00:14:17
Speaker
Because it's easy for you to do.
00:14:20
Speaker
If that's the only reason you don't want to get married.
00:14:22
Speaker
But if you say there's no reason to get married other than the fact that it makes you safe, secure, happy, and sound, and you can't do that for me.
Financial Risks in Relationships
00:14:33
Speaker
Thank you.
00:14:34
Speaker
Next.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, because it seems like people do everything that, you know, would be done in a marriage, such as they'll buy a house, they'll have kids together, they'll be together for 15 years, and then they'll say, I've been engaged for eight years, and you're just like, this just...
00:14:54
Speaker
Especially with millennials.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I talk about.
00:14:57
Speaker
I tell people, I call it an installation violation.
00:15:00
Speaker
And what it is, is you're installed in his life as the most convenient appliance he has.
00:15:07
Speaker
It's sexually gratifying.
00:15:09
Speaker
You make meals, you take care of him, all the health, the cleaning, the cooking, all of that stuff.
00:15:15
Speaker
We call that a mommy McBang maid.
00:15:17
Speaker
Same thing.
00:15:19
Speaker
Little vulgar.
00:15:20
Speaker
It's a great name, though.
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:22
Speaker
But that's exactly what it is.
00:15:23
Speaker
That's exactly what it is.
00:15:25
Speaker
And that's a woman's fault.
00:15:26
Speaker
If you install yourself into his house and then wonder why he's not going to give you a ring, you know, that's just silly.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:32
Speaker
So many millennial and I've even seen this in the mainstream media talking about this.
00:15:36
Speaker
So many millennial women now have committed to buying homes with guys.
00:15:40
Speaker
It's like, why?
00:15:41
Speaker
Sometimes.
00:15:42
Speaker
these homes are just money sucks.
00:15:44
Speaker
Like they're not even feasible fixer uppers that they're going to be able to flip in a short amount of time.
00:15:49
Speaker
And then they break up before they have a chance to even capitalize on the house that they had.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I'm like, what's the point of buying a house with a guy and you don't have some kind of stable long-term commitment?
00:15:59
Speaker
A mortgage is 40 years, right?
00:16:00
Speaker
34 years.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
I worked in finance for a long time and this was a tale as old as time to the point where the mortgage advisors would tell me, like, on the down low that don't buy a house with someone you're not married to.
00:16:13
Speaker
They couldn't say that to customers.
00:16:15
Speaker
But we'd get, you know, we'd get people who are 20, 21 buying a house with their boyfriend.
00:16:21
Speaker
And I just think in those years, because in the UK, it's very much like people look down on you if you don't own a house by 25.
00:16:29
Speaker
Really?
00:16:32
Speaker
You're basically vilified.
00:16:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's a massive, massive, you need to get on the property ladder ASAP.
00:16:37
Speaker
People look down on you if you rent.
00:16:41
Speaker
It's very much a mortgage culture.
00:16:43
Speaker
And for many people, the only way they can afford a mortgage is if they buy a house with...
00:16:48
Speaker
with their partner two folks yeah and that's the only way they can get one but the problem is they're pushing this on young people when you're what 21 22 your life will change so much over the next five years and we'd see it all the time where they'd buy the house a year later he you know he wants to leave and she will be thousands of pounds out of pocket because they're in negative equity
00:17:09
Speaker
And it was really, really sad.
00:17:11
Speaker
If there's one thing I, yeah, if there's one thing I would really want to tell young women and the book I wrote, Dear Sonali, Letters to the Daughter I Never Had.
00:17:18
Speaker
I had six sons.
00:17:19
Speaker
So, and I never got a little girl.
00:17:21
Speaker
Dang, four sons.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, isn't it?
00:17:24
Speaker
And I married a guy with four sons.
00:17:27
Speaker
I had two more boys.
00:17:28
Speaker
He clearly can't do girls.
00:17:30
Speaker
I gave up.
00:17:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:17:31
Speaker
But the one thing that I would say to them is don't fall in to the river of culture because it's a rushing river that will have you all the way down and land you in an ocean you never intended to be on just because everybody's doing it.
Challenging Societal Norms
00:17:49
Speaker
And we share what I mean from the moment we get up in the morning to when we go at night, we share everything we do.
00:17:57
Speaker
And once we start doing that, everybody starts.
00:18:01
Speaker
getting ideas about what we ought to do as far as, oh, this is what we do in the dating scene.
00:18:07
Speaker
This is what we do about a house.
00:18:08
Speaker
This is what we do about this.
00:18:09
Speaker
This is what we do about that.
00:18:11
Speaker
And the minute you start doing that, you end up doing stuff because it's culturally appropriate as opposed to personally acceptable.
00:18:21
Speaker
You know, it's not the best thing for you.
00:18:23
Speaker
My sister never got married.
00:18:25
Speaker
She just didn't.
00:18:26
Speaker
And she's a doctor and...
00:18:30
Speaker
It just and now, you know, the guys can't keep up with her.
00:18:33
Speaker
You know, she'll get a guy and she'll keep him for a while.
00:18:36
Speaker
And the minute he causes her trouble, she fires him and moves on.
00:18:40
Speaker
Queen.
00:18:41
Speaker
Queen energy.
00:18:42
Speaker
Nice.
00:18:45
Speaker
That point is very interesting about the river of culture or the wash.
00:18:53
Speaker
I'm trying to remember how you phrased it, but like the how culture pushes women in a certain direction that a lot of times isn't beneficial to us.
00:19:00
Speaker
And if you don't stop and look around and think, where am I?
00:19:04
Speaker
Why am I in the water?
00:19:06
Speaker
What am I doing in the water?
00:19:07
Speaker
Is everybody in the water doing what I want to do or do I want to do something else?
00:19:11
Speaker
And can I swim upstream while everybody's going downstream?
00:19:16
Speaker
Often it's a matter of just sitting back and acknowledging, oh, this is what pushed me to do this, as opposed to, well, this isn't...
00:19:25
Speaker
You know, just, oh, I'm going to go along with it.
00:19:27
Speaker
You have to take a step back from what you're doing and decide who decided that you would do it.
00:19:34
Speaker
Was it you or was it the people around?
00:19:37
Speaker
So true.
00:19:38
Speaker
And that honestly is why I think female dating strategy has had the resonance that it has and picked up the audience that we did is because a lot of us who were involved in the subreddit,
00:19:49
Speaker
started to stop and take a look at our lives and realize where are we getting all these cultural messages that are pushing us towards things that when we start to take like an actual factual inventory of our lives have not been beneficial to us.
00:20:03
Speaker
Right.
00:20:03
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:04
Speaker
We mostly focus on dating, but there's so many other things around that.
00:20:11
Speaker
We already kind of touched on some of those themes like buying property with men you're not married to.
00:20:18
Speaker
Makes no sense.
00:20:19
Speaker
Too soon.
00:20:20
Speaker
Committing too soon with guys.
00:20:22
Speaker
And another thing that we rail against is how what we would call...
00:20:26
Speaker
Feminist culture sometimes pushes women to be way more sexually promiscuous than a lot of women are comfortable with, especially at young
Impact of the Sexual Revolution
00:20:35
Speaker
ages.
00:20:35
Speaker
There's a big push right now for girls to get involved in OnlyFans, thinking it's going to be get rich quick, thinking it's going to be a money-making avenue for them.
00:20:43
Speaker
Can I say this very unpopular thing?
00:20:46
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:20:46
Speaker
We love unpopular opinions.
00:20:48
Speaker
You may.
00:20:49
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:20:50
Speaker
The sexual revolution bus was nice to be on.
00:20:56
Speaker
But it backed over us in the end.
00:20:58
Speaker
When we detached that sex thing from marriage, it gave us a harder road to hoe.
00:21:06
Speaker
Now, no pun intended.
00:21:10
Speaker
I like that it happened, and I like that we have the right to be sexual beings, and I like that I didn't, you know, that I allowed myself to be a sexual being before I got married.
00:21:22
Speaker
Having said that, I was very persnickety about it.
00:21:28
Speaker
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:21:30
Speaker
No hookups, no none of that.
00:21:32
Speaker
Sex is good, and you could get carried away with the joy of, oh, this one, that one, the other one.
00:21:38
Speaker
But I think that if you're not careful, and it sounds like, oh, women need to be modest and have a small body count.
00:21:46
Speaker
I hate that body count business.
00:21:48
Speaker
I think you should have as big a body count as you want, but you have to understand what you do and where you want to be.
00:21:56
Speaker
You can't have all of this and want all of that and expect it all to come at the same time.
00:22:03
Speaker
We're big on curating sexual experiences that actually we think are going to be beneficial and enjoyable.
00:22:08
Speaker
The problem with the hookup and the fast sex is that a lot of guys just aren't good at it.
00:22:13
Speaker
I mean, there's no nice way to say it, right?
00:22:16
Speaker
So, you know, the way that we...
00:22:18
Speaker
that we recommend with our strategies is to take it slower, but it's not because we think like, oh, women need to be modest.
00:22:23
Speaker
We need to look virginal to men so you can get a ring or anything.
00:22:26
Speaker
It's because- It's for our own benefit.
00:22:29
Speaker
We make them wait for our benefit.
00:22:31
Speaker
Create boundaries.
00:22:32
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:22:34
Speaker
And awaited sex is better than the hookup sex.
00:22:37
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:22:38
Speaker
You have to get that anticipation, that weight on both of you.
00:22:42
Speaker
It's more fun that way.
00:22:44
Speaker
It's exciting.
00:22:46
Speaker
It's, you know, maybe tonight, maybe not.
00:22:49
Speaker
You know, you got to enjoy the whole ride.
00:22:53
Speaker
And the whole ride isn't just the rumpy bumpy when you're naked.
00:22:57
Speaker
The whole ride is getting to the rumpy bumpy.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:00
Speaker
I hate how it's considered abnormal nowadays to go on a date and not like hook up on the first or second or third date.
00:23:07
Speaker
I think that's crazy.
00:23:08
Speaker
I think, I think it's very, I don't like how when I go on a date at the end of the date, uh, I mean, sometimes guys are okay about it, but a lot of the times they act like shocked.
00:23:17
Speaker
Like, why would you be on online dating and not hook up with me the first time we meet?
00:23:21
Speaker
Some of them want a hookup before even the date.
00:23:24
Speaker
Like they
00:23:25
Speaker
It's just crazy.
00:23:26
Speaker
Just crazy.
00:23:27
Speaker
They want, they want sex without even taking you on a date.
00:23:30
Speaker
Like just come over.
00:23:33
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
Netflix and chill.
00:23:35
Speaker
I mean, it's just like, come over.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:37
Speaker
Can I grab a piece?
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
Come on over.
00:23:39
Speaker
It's 2am booty call.
00:23:40
Speaker
I don't believe in none of that.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:42
Speaker
It's like they treat women like, you know, pizzas for delivery or something like that.
00:23:46
Speaker
And so I don't like how I'm considered a prude or, you know, you know, backwards for not liking that or not wanting to do that.
00:23:55
Speaker
And if you don't, and if you can get it that easily, you don't really feel like you got to deliver.
00:24:01
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:24:02
Speaker
If you could just have sex with the, you know what I mean?
00:24:04
Speaker
Now, if you've been waiting to have sex with me for three months, four months, you're going to come in there like, man, you know what I mean?
00:24:11
Speaker
Excited and anticipation.
00:24:13
Speaker
And you're going to make it, you really want me and desire me.
00:24:17
Speaker
And it's going to be an experience as opposed to, you know, ain't nothing on TV.
00:24:22
Speaker
Let's do it.
00:24:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker
And a lot of guys, I mean, we call them low value men.
00:24:25
Speaker
So, you know, you don't want to be having sex with them anyways, but a lot of guys are low value and think that, oh, if she doesn't have sex with me on the first, second or third date, then it means she's not interested in me.
00:24:34
Speaker
Like if she makes me wait for sex, she's not worth it.
00:24:37
Speaker
And they move on kind of thing.
00:24:38
Speaker
So a lot of women feel pressure to put out sooner than they would feel comfortable with just to maintain his interest.
00:24:44
Speaker
And it's, that's a bad move.
00:24:46
Speaker
It's a bad calculation.
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:48
Speaker
They're being hyped up by a lot of these male dating coaches who I won't name.
00:24:53
Speaker
I won't give the dignity of naming.
00:24:55
Speaker
Oh, don't, don't get me started.
00:24:57
Speaker
I will.
00:24:58
Speaker
But that's, I mean, they're getting that kind of advice where if she doesn't have sex with you by the third date, she's not into you.
00:25:04
Speaker
You need to next her.
00:25:05
Speaker
Right.
00:25:05
Speaker
And so then they miss out on actual connections because they're so concerned about the fast hookup and don't,
00:25:11
Speaker
It's like they didn't teach them how to read attraction signals from women.
Individuality in Dating
00:25:16
Speaker
They just look at it like a formula, like this is the way it is.
00:25:18
Speaker
And if she doesn't put out right away, then she doesn't like you.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
This is what women... We are in a society where we are such big fans of labels.
00:25:27
Speaker
This is a woman.
00:25:28
Speaker
This is how women think.
00:25:29
Speaker
This is a man.
00:25:30
Speaker
This is what men think.
00:25:32
Speaker
And we're actually individuals.
00:25:33
Speaker
And it's really difficult often, sometimes, for men to think of us as individuals.
00:25:38
Speaker
We are a pool of...
00:25:41
Speaker
People.
00:25:43
Speaker
And especially when they're younger, they don't see us as much as individuals.
00:25:48
Speaker
As you age, the guys get more knowledgeable about that, which is a wonderful thing.
00:25:56
Speaker
Yeah, I find like young guys nowadays are, I don't know if it's always been like that because I am young, but younger guys just seem to have this really intense like hatred of women or very like bitter or feeling like women owe them stuff or if women don't do this or this, like, or they just think all women are the same and are kind of bad and
00:26:21
Speaker
It's become so combative on both sides.
00:26:23
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:26:24
Speaker
It's just very, you know, you go on to clubhouse and you go into these rooms and it's just, it's horrifying.
00:26:32
Speaker
You know, the assumptions that both sides make about the other side, they demonize the other side.
00:26:37
Speaker
They take the two or three experiences that they've had with men or women and they universalize it and saying all women are this and all men are that.
00:26:46
Speaker
And we're coming to each other as...
00:26:48
Speaker
you know, labels and assumptions and presumptions, and we're not seeing each other as people.
00:26:57
Speaker
And I remember one time there was a whole lot of people in a clubhouse room talking about, you know, what do you want in a woman and what do you want in a man?
00:27:04
Speaker
And they were talking that high value nonsense.
00:27:06
Speaker
I want a guy over six figures.
00:27:08
Speaker
How foolish is that?
00:27:09
Speaker
I want a guy over six figures.
00:27:11
Speaker
What you want is a guy that's got a future, a guy that gets you, a guy that knows where you're weak and won't walk on it.
00:27:19
Speaker
I mean, there are so many things that make a good husband that got nothing to do with the dollars or the looks or the sex.
00:27:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think we have a different use of high value, low value.
00:27:29
Speaker
Like if a guy is rich and has a huge dick and is tall and handsome and everything, but if he's abusive, he's low value.
00:27:36
Speaker
Exactly.
00:27:37
Speaker
Exactly.
00:27:39
Speaker
The value is like the degree to which he positively or negatively impacts your life.
00:27:44
Speaker
Impacts your life.
00:27:45
Speaker
That's right.
00:27:46
Speaker
If he has a good influence on your life, improves your quality of life, even if he's not rich, we would consider that person high value.
00:27:53
Speaker
A low value man, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:55
Speaker
I'm the primary breadwinner in my house, have been for years.
00:27:59
Speaker
But that man, you know, when I'm depressed, he knows what to do.
00:28:06
Speaker
When I'm upset, you know, I haven't filled my gas tank in years.
00:28:11
Speaker
He just, and he knows where I'm, you know, when I say to him,
00:28:15
Speaker
You know, I love you, don't you?
00:28:16
Speaker
And he goes, what's wrong?
00:28:17
Speaker
Because I say that when I'm nervous.
00:28:19
Speaker
And so it's his job to keep me upright and feel good.
00:28:24
Speaker
It's his job to ride my weird with me.
00:28:27
Speaker
And you got to get somebody that gets you and willing to ride your weird with me.
00:28:32
Speaker
He's super high value to me because he keeps he allows me to function freely and comfortably in a world that I find quite intimidating.
Maintaining Healthy Relationships
00:28:41
Speaker
So could you give us a little bit more insight about long-term relationships?
00:28:45
Speaker
Because we mostly focus on the dating stage, but we have had some of our users request like, okay, once you're in a relationship, especially when it's spanned the decades that yours has spanned, what kinds of...
00:28:57
Speaker
advice would you give to women who are in long-term relationships about how to maintain it?
00:29:01
Speaker
You know, what kinds of things, what kind of challenges to look out for?
00:29:05
Speaker
And get in the habit of going to marriage counseling early.
00:29:08
Speaker
A lot of people go to marriage counseling as a, as the last ditch effort and the sip is already sinking.
00:29:13
Speaker
They're on the Titanic.
00:29:15
Speaker
Suckers broke in half.
00:29:16
Speaker
Everybody going down.
00:29:17
Speaker
We all know that.
00:29:19
Speaker
It's a Hail Mary.
00:29:20
Speaker
But my husband and I, and this was his idea, he says, let's go to a marriage counselor before we got married.
00:29:27
Speaker
And we went to a marriage counselor.
00:29:28
Speaker
We took a battery of tests.
00:29:30
Speaker
We talked and talked.
00:29:31
Speaker
And then he sat down and talked to us about where we're going to struggle based on who I was and based on who he was and based upon our compatibility with the state of marriage.
00:29:42
Speaker
He told us what to look out for.
00:29:44
Speaker
That's one thing.
00:29:45
Speaker
And having done that in the beginning made it easier when we came on rough times to go again.
00:29:50
Speaker
It didn't seem like a horrifying thing.
00:29:52
Speaker
It didn't seem like, oh, I'm saying the relationship's almost over.
00:29:55
Speaker
This is something we do just like going to get a physical yearly to make sure that our bodies are fine.
00:30:01
Speaker
We make sure our marriage is fine, not yearly, but when things get difficult, we go in and we know.
00:30:07
Speaker
And I know his name was, I'll never forget him, Dr. Willie.
00:30:12
Speaker
And he saved our marriage twice because we would go in.
00:30:16
Speaker
And, you know, after a while, we learned to do it ourselves.
00:30:19
Speaker
But we made a habit of it.
00:30:22
Speaker
That's number one.
00:30:22
Speaker
Number two, you've got to learn how to have a conversation.
00:30:27
Speaker
And everybody says communication is key.
00:30:29
Speaker
It is.
00:30:30
Speaker
But you got to learn.
00:30:32
Speaker
There are specific rules about having an effective conversation that you are least likely to obey when you are at home, because that's where you feel you should be free.
00:30:44
Speaker
You should be able to say what you want to.
00:30:46
Speaker
But if you're going to have a discussion that.
00:30:51
Speaker
provides you with clarity and closure and compromise, you have to really understand how to have an effective conversation.
00:31:01
Speaker
And most people don't.
00:31:02
Speaker
Most people come home and emote.
00:31:04
Speaker
And that's why you can't do it.
00:31:06
Speaker
I mean, you have the right to emote and all that kind of stuff.
00:31:09
Speaker
But when you're trying to solve, you got to know there are methods by which to solve that a whole bunch of emotionality will not assist.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, you have to be strategic in how you go about communicating to get the result that you want.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:25
Speaker
The best conversations have the most pauses in them because that's where all the thinking happens.
00:31:30
Speaker
And you're not stepping on each other to talk, to get your point across.
00:31:35
Speaker
You are taking in what they said, thinking about it, determining where you can meet them halfway, and then you come back with something.
00:31:45
Speaker
That's so interesting.
00:31:47
Speaker
And I also find it interesting that you guys did marriage counseling pretty early on in your relationship.
00:31:52
Speaker
I remember that used to be, and I grew up in the church or whatever, so I remember that used to be kind of standard before you got married is like you would go see like the church counselors or like, and I know with Catholics, they do that too.
00:32:05
Speaker
But it's interesting to see that you guys did that as well, but with like an actual licensed therapist.
00:32:11
Speaker
Right.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:12
Speaker
A really good way to kind of really figure out where you guys would both stand on certain issues and how that would affect you down the line.
00:32:20
Speaker
That's actually, that's really, really great advice.
00:32:22
Speaker
What I'm trying to say is that's really, really great advice.
00:32:24
Speaker
And I find that interesting that that seems to be a cultural concept.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:26
Speaker
If there's only one thing I could say to stay married, that would be the one thing to do early and continue to do.
00:32:34
Speaker
Makes it easy.
00:32:35
Speaker
My parents are divorced, and that's what my dad said to me.
00:32:37
Speaker
He's like, well, if you ever get married, make sure to get marriage counseling before you get married and not after.
00:32:44
Speaker
Don't do what I did.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's too late.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's too late, Dad.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, prevention is always better than cure, right?
00:32:52
Speaker
Exactly.
00:32:53
Speaker
I just wanted to just to branch off slightly.
00:32:56
Speaker
So here at FDS, we are really, really big on on vetting, or as you call it, you know, for example, watching your man, you just keep watching him.
00:33:06
Speaker
Um, how do you think women can continue to watch or, or vet a man, um, especially as the relationship becomes more serious because it's easy to vet in the beginning when, you know, there's fireworks and you're like, I'm going to go into this with queen energy.
00:33:23
Speaker
But from my experience and the experience of other women, it becomes more difficult the more you get invested into, um,
00:33:30
Speaker
into the man and into the relationship.
00:33:32
Speaker
So how can we maintain, you know, the, the, the watching him attitude whilst also enjoying the relationship at the same time?
00:33:42
Speaker
You have to maintain some distance.
00:33:44
Speaker
Stop doing that soulmate search.
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, it's... Yes.
00:33:50
Speaker
filling in those boxes and we're always, Oh, I can work with this.
00:33:53
Speaker
I can work over this, you know, and I, I, I, well, I don't like that, but he's doing this.
00:33:59
Speaker
So all that, you know, be, be particular.
00:34:01
Speaker
Don't be afraid that he's going to go off.
00:34:04
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:34:05
Speaker
Don't be afraid that he's going to leave.
00:34:07
Speaker
Uh, it's just not, I remember when, when my husband and I were dating and he came to pick me up at my office and
00:34:19
Speaker
And he wasn't there.
00:34:20
Speaker
So I wasn't there.
00:34:21
Speaker
So he called me.
00:34:22
Speaker
I was at home and he says, why are you home?
00:34:23
Speaker
And I said, well, you said you were going to pick me up at five and by five 20, you weren't there.
00:34:28
Speaker
So I just went home and he says, well, I'll pick you up there.
00:34:31
Speaker
And I said, no, I'm not going to go anywhere with you now because it's five 20.
00:34:36
Speaker
I'm home and take my stockings off back in the day.
00:34:40
Speaker
And I ain't getting up.
00:34:43
Speaker
He was never late again.
00:34:44
Speaker
Nice.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah, you got to be tough with men.
00:34:48
Speaker
You got to teach them your boundaries early.
00:34:50
Speaker
But that taught me something, that I expressed a need, timeliness, because I'm a monster on time.
00:34:59
Speaker
I expressed a need, and that brother met it.
00:35:03
Speaker
That says a lot.
00:35:04
Speaker
So just I mean, just don't get too attached too soon, you know, and the more people that you date casually, the less likely that you are to do that.
00:35:13
Speaker
Not only because you're not putting all your eggs in one basket, it also allows you to compare and contrast.
00:35:22
Speaker
You know, this one guy might be a great conversationalist, but another guy, you know what I mean?
00:35:28
Speaker
So you can decide what you need more of and what you want more of.
00:35:32
Speaker
Because the perfect guy for me might be a guy to drive you crazy.
00:35:36
Speaker
So there are no...
00:35:38
Speaker
set things to look for.
00:35:40
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:41
Speaker
I'm really glad you say that.
00:35:43
Speaker
Cause again, we are a huge fan.
00:35:44
Speaker
We did an episode on, on, on rotational dating a few weeks ago.
00:35:49
Speaker
We are a huge fan of that.
00:35:52
Speaker
Just keeping a rotation of men, at least in the early stages.
00:35:55
Speaker
Just so.
00:35:55
Speaker
And can I say this as women, we kind of like don't use our power to,
00:36:03
Speaker
Well, if we were, I remember I said on the show once a long time ago, wouldn't it be wonderful if we just had a no-nookie Tuesday?
00:36:12
Speaker
And like women were just saying, we ain't giving it up on Tuesday.
00:36:15
Speaker
Every woman in the world don't give it up on a Tuesday.
00:36:19
Speaker
And first of all, you can see how okay it is to do without it and just to...
00:36:27
Speaker
how much they want to have sex with us is a powerful thing.
00:36:31
Speaker
And if we don't, if we, if we remove ourselves from the chase and sit and let them chase, and we all do that, then we'll all have to up their game.
00:36:43
Speaker
Do you understand what I'm saying?
00:36:45
Speaker
But we have to not be in competition with each other so we can establish a floor for these people to meet.
00:36:56
Speaker
And the thing is, when women do the chasing or they don't put these boundaries, they end up compromising too much and being unhappy.
00:37:02
Speaker
And that's the race to the bottom with what women are willing to do to keep a man.
00:37:07
Speaker
But like, I would think the point of a relationship is to be happy most of the time or feel like it's fulfilling you most of the time rather than just having a man around.
00:37:15
Speaker
It sort of defeats the purpose.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, I've had a number of women on the show.
00:37:20
Speaker
He cheats, he runs around, he doesn't work, he doesn't cook, he doesn't clean, and he won't marry me.
00:37:27
Speaker
And I said, why are you seeking to be attached long-term to a guy that makes you miserable?
00:37:33
Speaker
And it's such an unexamined desire on our part to marry me.
00:37:43
Speaker
just to be married.
00:37:45
Speaker
And I know I like being married.
00:37:46
Speaker
I love being married.
00:37:47
Speaker
It is a very good state of being for me.
00:37:50
Speaker
But I had to marry somebody that would make my life better, not simply tolerate somebody so I won't be alone.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, all these women that are like, yeah, my husband cheats on me and he does this and this and this horrible thing.
00:38:04
Speaker
But he's like the best person ever.
00:38:06
Speaker
And I love him so much.
00:38:07
Speaker
And I want to marry him.
00:38:08
Speaker
I'm like, what are you doing?
00:38:10
Speaker
What are you doing?
00:38:12
Speaker
And marrying him don't make it better.
00:38:14
Speaker
It makes it worse because they know you're stuck.
00:38:17
Speaker
Exactly.
00:38:17
Speaker
Like, why do you want to marry someone like that?
00:38:20
Speaker
I mean, I think there's also that element of, you know, women have been, you know, sold the idea that if you struggle for a man, eventually on some unspecified day in the future, that it will pay off and he will treat you like a queen.
00:38:34
Speaker
Because I remember seeing the woman you've described on the show and you could tell that the reason why they were hanging on for dear life onto this no good man was because they hoped that one day he would just transform into a prince.
00:38:50
Speaker
And obviously he, that, that day would never come, but I think there's also that aspect as well.
00:38:57
Speaker
You would think people would reciprocate with, if you're uber good to them, that they would reciprocate that way.
00:39:03
Speaker
But often what happens is if you're uber good to somebody, I don't know what it is in human nature.
00:39:08
Speaker
And it's not just men, it's everybody.
00:39:10
Speaker
They, they,
00:39:12
Speaker
They presume that they're entitled to it and want more and more and more, as opposed to being grateful for having it and giving in return.
00:39:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:22
Speaker
So value yourselves, ladies.
00:39:25
Speaker
So another question we had, since you have six sons, we've been asking this question of a lot of our guests because we do not have children and also we've never
Raising Respectful Sons
00:39:35
Speaker
been boys.
00:39:35
Speaker
So what kinds of character traits do you try to instill in your sons and what kinds of things do you think influenced your sons to be good partners and what kinds of things should we even look for?
00:39:48
Speaker
I think a lot of it was having a father in the home that was very dedicated to the proposition of treating his woman right.
00:39:56
Speaker
I mean, we didn't get along for a while there, you know, those three years and everything.
00:40:00
Speaker
But at the end of the day, we never took it outside the house.
00:40:04
Speaker
We weren't on the internet.
00:40:05
Speaker
We didn't do a lot of things.
00:40:06
Speaker
And they saw even when we didn't get along, he protected and defended me.
00:40:12
Speaker
And I think they see that as primary.
00:40:15
Speaker
And it was interesting.
00:40:19
Speaker
It's just a matter of culture.
00:40:20
Speaker
Like I remember one time I took my son, he was like eight or nine, to a specialist doctor for something.
00:40:27
Speaker
And the doctor was a dude.
00:40:30
Speaker
And my son looked at me and he said, he can't be a doctor.
00:40:32
Speaker
He's a guy.
00:40:34
Speaker
Because my sister's a doctor.
00:40:35
Speaker
My gynecologist is a doctor.
00:40:37
Speaker
His pediatrician was a doctor.
00:40:38
Speaker
And they were all women.
00:40:41
Speaker
So he thought women, only women were doctors.
00:40:45
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:40:46
Speaker
Cause it, and I, it never occurred to me, but my gynecologist was a woman.
00:40:50
Speaker
My gynecologist was a woman.
00:40:51
Speaker
My sister's a doctor.
00:40:53
Speaker
His auntie was a doctor and his, his doctor was a woman.
00:40:56
Speaker
So he thought that, and women take care of you when I'm at home, when he's sick, I was the one taking care of him.
00:41:01
Speaker
So he thought that's what women did.
00:41:04
Speaker
And it wasn't a judge.
00:41:05
Speaker
It wasn't a male job, but, uh, so it's a batter.
00:41:08
Speaker
It's about how they are raised.
00:41:11
Speaker
Um, I think that, uh,
00:41:14
Speaker
A lot of it they learn from watching their father.
00:41:18
Speaker
They really, really do.
00:41:19
Speaker
It's very important.
00:41:21
Speaker
You know, they don't want to hear you talk to them at all.
00:41:24
Speaker
Every time I open my mouth, everybody running from the nearest available exit.
00:41:29
Speaker
They're just how they are.
00:41:30
Speaker
You know, and they're your kids.
00:41:32
Speaker
They don't want to hear from you, but they watch everything that goes on.
00:41:37
Speaker
And I think it makes a difference when they have a good example.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I think the women friends that I have are very professional and we live in a very married community.
00:41:58
Speaker
And, you know,
00:42:01
Speaker
I don't know.
00:42:02
Speaker
They just learned from their father.
00:42:03
Speaker
And I remember the first time when my youngest was turned 21, he went to a strip club.
00:42:10
Speaker
And I tend not to be...
00:42:16
Speaker
What do I call it?
00:42:17
Speaker
I tend not to be judgmental.
00:42:19
Speaker
I tend to let them do what they want to and see where they go with it.
00:42:23
Speaker
And I said, so what'd you think?
00:42:24
Speaker
He said, got to tell you, mom was a little rapey.
00:42:26
Speaker
And I said, okay.
00:42:28
Speaker
And then I left the room and like, yes, yes, yes.
00:42:31
Speaker
I did my job.
00:42:32
Speaker
I did my job.
00:42:33
Speaker
I did my job.
00:42:34
Speaker
He thought it was rapey.
00:42:37
Speaker
You know?
00:42:37
Speaker
That's so amazing.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:43
Speaker
You couldn't have told me nothing that day because I had done it.
00:42:48
Speaker
And so I attribute all of that mostly to my husband.
00:42:54
Speaker
And I was a...
00:42:57
Speaker
I always thought I was a liberal mother, but I told that to my oldest once, and he said, who are you talking about?
00:43:04
Speaker
Everybody, even our friends, knew not to mess with you.
00:43:06
Speaker
So I was strong but fun.
00:43:10
Speaker
And my husband was dedicated to the proposition, and they watched the right show.
00:43:16
Speaker
It's really interesting, actually, that you mentioned the strip club analogy with your son, because a few weeks ago we had Dr. Gail Dines on the show, and she also has a son as well.
00:43:27
Speaker
And he had a very, very similar experience with a strip club that she shared with us as well.
00:43:33
Speaker
So I don't know if asking a guy's opinion on strip clubs is a good vetting strategy.
00:43:38
Speaker
The good ones just seems like the good ones are rightfully repulsed by it.
00:43:47
Speaker
Just a little uncomfortable with the entire scene.
00:43:50
Speaker
And, you know, I never really, you know, was like, this is this.
00:43:54
Speaker
But his father was very important.
00:43:56
Speaker
He had old school values about how you treat a woman.
00:43:58
Speaker
Like whenever he would leave town and I would be home alone, ever since my kids were three and four, he would say, look after your mother while I'm gone.
00:44:09
Speaker
And when my son turns 16, he goes, look after your mother while I'm gone.
00:44:15
Speaker
And he turned around and said, Dad, what does that mean?
00:44:17
Speaker
I can't tell her what to do.
00:44:19
Speaker
I can't.
00:44:20
Speaker
I'm not in charge.
00:44:21
Speaker
So what does it mean, look after her while I'm gone?
00:44:25
Speaker
He says, remember what I told you and left.
00:44:29
Speaker
And when he left, I
00:44:31
Speaker
I decided to paint the wall and the wall was like two stories tall.
00:44:36
Speaker
So I get this paint and I'm going to, and my son comes out and says, what are you doing?
00:44:41
Speaker
And he says, I said, well, I'm going to paint it.
00:44:42
Speaker
And he said, no, no, you're not.
00:44:44
Speaker
I'll do it.
00:44:45
Speaker
And he got up on the ladder and he painted the thing.
00:44:48
Speaker
And then he got down and I said, and that is what your father was talking about.
00:44:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:54
Speaker
He wanted his wife returned to him in the same condition he left her.
00:44:59
Speaker
And it was my son's job to make sure I didn't fall, break nothing, get hurt, get scared.
00:45:06
Speaker
And that's what he taught him.
00:45:09
Speaker
That's so beautiful.
00:45:10
Speaker
I like my husband.
00:45:11
Speaker
I like your husband too.
00:45:13
Speaker
I didn't even know him.
00:45:14
Speaker
I like your husband.
00:45:16
Speaker
We had a rocky morning, but yeah, I like him.
00:45:21
Speaker
Is your son single by any chance?
00:45:24
Speaker
Would he like a British girlfriend?
00:45:26
Speaker
Actually.
00:45:27
Speaker
I mean, are you going to ship him to the UK?
00:45:31
Speaker
I want to.
00:45:34
Speaker
I can travel.
00:45:34
Speaker
It's fine.
00:45:35
Speaker
I like travel.
00:45:36
Speaker
I got one that's 29 and I got one that's 26.
00:45:39
Speaker
Neither one of them has a girlfriend.
00:45:42
Speaker
They're single.
00:45:46
Speaker
I can't wait for them to find the right woman.
00:45:49
Speaker
cannot wait.
00:45:51
Speaker
The baby's very monogamous, but he wants to find the right one.
00:45:56
Speaker
I remember he was dating this girl longest time, and then there was a gorgeous woman walking across.
00:46:02
Speaker
I mean, just gorgeous.
00:46:04
Speaker
I was like...
00:46:07
Speaker
And he said, yeah, it's a shame.
00:46:08
Speaker
Women, all women are so pretty.
00:46:10
Speaker
And I said, well, is it a shame?
00:46:13
Speaker
He said, I'm taken.
00:46:15
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, I'm taken.
00:46:17
Speaker
You know, I don't look at other women because, you know, I'm taken.
00:46:21
Speaker
That's what that is.
00:46:23
Speaker
If I got a girlfriend, I don't mess up.
00:46:25
Speaker
So that's one of the main differences between like, um, like a high value man and a low value man.
00:46:30
Speaker
The low value man would say it's natural for men to stare at other women.
00:46:34
Speaker
It's biology for me to want to cheat on my girlfriend.
00:46:37
Speaker
Right.
00:46:38
Speaker
It's, it's, it's, it's biology.
00:46:40
Speaker
I'm just looking, I'm not doing anything, but he, you know, was respectful.
00:46:44
Speaker
He acknowledged that she was beautiful, but, but that was it.
00:46:47
Speaker
He wasn't, but that was it.
00:46:48
Speaker
It was just like, you know, I'm taken, I got my, I got my lady.
00:46:52
Speaker
So, you know, I don't know.
00:46:55
Speaker
don't know how they got that.
00:46:56
Speaker
I just think they got that way watching their father.
00:46:58
Speaker
I don't really know.
00:46:59
Speaker
My oldest, the oldest, oldest married two kids.
00:47:03
Speaker
Second one, not.
00:47:05
Speaker
Third one, with the same girl since he was 14 and she was 15.
00:47:10
Speaker
And they're in their mid-40s.
00:47:14
Speaker
And then the two babies, 20, 26, and 29.
00:47:16
Speaker
Unmarried.
00:47:20
Speaker
So another question I had to go along with that is, do you think there's a massive difference for women who are dating who are above 40?
00:47:29
Speaker
Because our audience is mostly young, but we do occasionally get questions from women who are a little bit older about how to apply the strategies when I think dynamics change.
00:47:39
Speaker
You know, people have kids or a lot more people are married if you're over 40.
00:47:43
Speaker
What advice would you have for women over a certain age?
00:47:47
Speaker
I'm not really sure it'd be perfectly frankie.
00:47:49
Speaker
Cause I never dated out of my twenties and I don't really know.
00:47:52
Speaker
Fair.
00:47:53
Speaker
You know, and I just, I don't, you know, I don't trust people who have an answer to everything.
00:47:59
Speaker
So I don't really, I don't really know.
00:48:02
Speaker
I just, everything's so different now than when us older women, well, I'm in my sixties, so it doesn't really, I mean, I'm really outdated, but, uh,
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's the recurring joke or meme or idea or whatever that the older you get, the lower your standards have to be or something like that.
Maintaining High Standards and Autonomy
00:48:24
Speaker
When you're in your 20s, you can make all these demands of men.
00:48:27
Speaker
And then there's a lot of memes, pictures going around like, oh, once you're 30, you're willing to settle for a guy who's got some convictions or who has this and this and all these flaws and stuff.
00:48:39
Speaker
And I don't think that's true.
00:48:41
Speaker
I think regardless of age, you should always have high standards.
00:48:45
Speaker
You know, my sister, I will tell you, she used to date, date, date, and then she got more and more picky.
00:48:52
Speaker
And, you know, as she got busier and her bank account went up, the less she was willing to put up with.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah, like you should get more picky as you get older, not less.
00:49:01
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yep.
00:49:03
Speaker
She just wasn't willing to put up with anything.
00:49:05
Speaker
Plus, I think, you know, you know what you like and you have your life settled in a way that you like.
00:49:10
Speaker
You know, you're more confident about leaving things behind that don't serve you.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
And we really need to have our – my parents never talked to my sister and I ever about what you look for in a guy or what you look for in marriage.
00:49:25
Speaker
All they talked about was –
00:49:27
Speaker
which college we were going to, what kind of businesses we were going to run.
00:49:32
Speaker
He started investment accounts for us when we were teenagers.
00:49:37
Speaker
And it was about being fully actualized individuals because when you're a fully actualized individual, the love piece is only a piece of you and it's not definitive.
00:49:51
Speaker
You know, it makes men optional and not definitional.
00:49:55
Speaker
And...
00:49:58
Speaker
I think you work from a place of power and strength when you do that.
00:50:03
Speaker
And you also date with the sense of I'm okay without desperation.
00:50:09
Speaker
And you're able to, you have so many other things, so many other layers that are doing well or not doing well, that a man is just a piece of it.
00:50:17
Speaker
You know?
00:50:18
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:50:19
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:50:20
Speaker
So I think we are just about wrapped up.
00:50:23
Speaker
I think I wanted to close out with asking you what your most memorable divorce court case was, just because we're messy and we're curious.
00:50:32
Speaker
What was the craziest moment?
00:50:35
Speaker
Well, if we're messy.
00:50:37
Speaker
Now, one of my favorites was the one about what 20 is for us.
00:50:42
Speaker
For fine dudes that don't act right.
00:50:43
Speaker
That was clearly one of my favorites.
00:50:45
Speaker
And I had another favorite where a guy in there was bipolar.
00:50:51
Speaker
And I was telling him about being crazy and how to handle you crazy.
00:50:55
Speaker
And Tisdale versus Johnson, where this was a black woman who had that angry black woman syndrome, quote unquote, above her head.
00:51:05
Speaker
That's what her man was calling her.
00:51:07
Speaker
And we came to terms about her fears because she was afraid.
00:51:12
Speaker
And by the end of the show, she cried.
00:51:14
Speaker
And I loved that one.
00:51:17
Speaker
But it wasn't messy.
00:51:19
Speaker
Do you want messy?
00:51:20
Speaker
I think it's good to show women just, you know, working through their issues.
00:51:23
Speaker
Like we do talk about that on here too.
00:51:26
Speaker
Not just about men and like all their issues, but, you know, helping you to bring yourself to a place of centeredness and happiness so that you can be, you know, the right person for the right person.
00:51:35
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:51:37
Speaker
And it's not going to be perfect, but you know, you shouldn't be, you shouldn't tolerate, you know, if they spewing nothing but dark in your direction, you do not need that.
00:51:47
Speaker
I mean, I can remember watching a divorce court compilation of like the worst excuses given when men cheat.
00:51:57
Speaker
That was one, he was like, it was an accident.
00:51:59
Speaker
I cheated.
00:52:01
Speaker
And your face was like, no.
00:52:05
Speaker
I slipped into her vagina.
00:52:06
Speaker
Yeah, I was in bed with her, but nothing was going on.
00:52:09
Speaker
I don't know how that happened.
00:52:11
Speaker
I don't know how she got there.
00:52:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
one last question actually um judgment what are some ways that because i don't know if you're familiar with the the betty broderick case but i'm really into like true crime oh yeah and i don't know if you watch the show on netflix but the whole time watching it it's so painful because i'm like sis this is not how you divorce a man and come out on top like what are some common mistakes have you seen the uh interviews i'm i'm
00:52:44
Speaker
Immersed in Betty Broderick.
00:52:47
Speaker
Have you seen her interviews with Oprah in prison?
00:52:49
Speaker
No, I haven't yet, but I'm going to go.
00:52:51
Speaker
Go on YouTube and look that up.
00:52:54
Speaker
That woman is so sick that even in jail, she thinks she did the right thing.
00:53:03
Speaker
She cannot admit to anything going wrong.
00:53:06
Speaker
She doesn't talk to her children because she's still fanatical about that.
00:53:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:13
Speaker
crazy yeah i think the most upsetting thing about that case is like she essentially left her kids orphans because then she's in jail the breadwinner dan is is is dead but the whole time i'm like i'm looking at that case through the analysis of like okay once you realize that something's up your husband's cheating on you that's when you need to find a lawyer that's when you need to get two steps ahead because he the interesting thing to me is how he finessed the divorce
00:53:40
Speaker
such that she would get like nothing financially and, um, and, you know, essentially maximized his own benefit.
00:53:48
Speaker
And she went about it, like in all the wrong ways, like not getting a lawyer for herself, dragging her feet, um, you know, the, leaving the voicemail, like the crazy voicemails and, you know, uh, vandalism of his property and stuff.
00:54:01
Speaker
And I'm like, sis, all of these things are things he's going to be using against you.
00:54:04
Speaker
Like, this is not strategic.
00:54:06
Speaker
Right.
00:54:06
Speaker
So what are some of the, like,
00:54:08
Speaker
I mean, Betty Broderick is an extreme case, but what are some of the more common mistakes that a lot of women make when divorcing that ends up where they end up screwing themselves over and how can women make better choices there?
00:54:20
Speaker
I think it's important to understand why she did that.
00:54:23
Speaker
She did that because she was raised in a culture where she was defined by who she was married to.
00:54:31
Speaker
She was Mrs. Broderick and her whole life was defined that.
00:54:35
Speaker
So she had no desire to get money or to get ahead of things.
00:54:39
Speaker
Her whole her whole being didn't want to get divorced.
00:54:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:43
Speaker
No, she did not want to get a divorce.
00:54:44
Speaker
She wanted to fix it.
00:54:46
Speaker
And other men in that culture, they have affairs and you get past it.
00:54:52
Speaker
And you stay.
00:54:53
Speaker
And you get past it.
00:54:54
Speaker
She thought that's what's going to happen.
00:54:56
Speaker
And since that defined who she was as a person, she could not let it go.
00:55:01
Speaker
Yeah, so that's what I learned there.
00:55:03
Speaker
It's like, don't define yourself based on... You have to be willing to walk away because if you're in that situation where... And that's the thing that's so fascinating about it is because, you know, he's cheating on you.
00:55:13
Speaker
He's doing all these things.
00:55:14
Speaker
Why do you want to still be with that guy, right?
00:55:16
Speaker
And yes, she was raised that way.
00:55:18
Speaker
But, you know, if you're sensing something's wrong, that's when you have to... You got to be willing to walk away as a woman.
00:55:26
Speaker
Like, if your husband is being...
00:55:29
Speaker
you know, a cheater or is like treating you badly or, you know, controlling you or whatever, you know, she, you gotta get ahead.
00:55:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:38
Speaker
You gotta go in strong.
00:55:39
Speaker
You gotta go in strong.
00:55:40
Speaker
You gotta go in strong.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:42
Speaker
You can't be like, pick me.
00:55:44
Speaker
No, you know, pick me.
00:55:46
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:55:47
Speaker
I've made it, you know, ha no, it's not like that.
00:55:50
Speaker
Betty Broderick is an extreme case, though, but what are some common mistakes that women make?
00:55:54
Speaker
I mean, not luring up is probably one of them, but what are some mistakes that women make when divorcing?
00:55:59
Speaker
How can we remedy that?
00:56:01
Speaker
Well, they make a mistake during marriage if they are not well acquainted with the financial circumstances of the home.
00:56:10
Speaker
And sometimes, especially if the male is the primary breadwinner, they allow that financial piece to be completely on his table.
00:56:19
Speaker
And so you don't know what to look for.
00:56:22
Speaker
You have to go find a forensic accountant or something to find that money because you don't know what's going on.
00:56:28
Speaker
Another thing is don't fight over the sentimental stuff.
00:56:30
Speaker
You know, this was a business, you know, a business.
00:56:35
Speaker
divorcing is the end of a of a relationship but getting a divorce is a business transaction and if you get how you feel confused with the money that you need you're going to fight over all the wrong things yeah yeah like she was fighting over the china and like you know yeah sentimental because it meant something and how could he this is when i and blah blah blah that's not it
00:57:00
Speaker
It's business.
00:57:00
Speaker
And you got to remember it's business.
00:57:03
Speaker
You got to be ruthless.
00:57:04
Speaker
Can't get caught up in your feelings for sure.
00:57:07
Speaker
Feelings are called the attorney.
00:57:11
Speaker
$500 an hour for him to hear your angst.
00:57:13
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:57:15
Speaker
You know, that's for girlfriends.
00:57:17
Speaker
And you can't take any of that stuff with you.
00:57:18
Speaker
I mean, you could get all that china and then just drop it on your way into your house.
00:57:24
Speaker
I mean, it's not that important, but you, you know, you, you get confused when you're in it because you just cannot believe he would do it or she would do it, you know?
00:57:36
Speaker
So you get emotional about it and then you start doing dumb things.
00:57:41
Speaker
Is there any just, you know, general final words of wisdom that you'd like to give to our listeners, Judge Lynn?
00:57:49
Speaker
If you're a young lady, just be a fully actualized individual.
00:57:55
Speaker
You know, don't make sure that your intellectual life is very busy and puts you in a whole lot of different pools of people so you can be in different circumstances and cultures and everything.
00:58:09
Speaker
You meet a whole bunch of different kinds of guys and don't just, you know, and the whole thing is...
00:58:16
Speaker
to live as much of life as you can.
00:58:20
Speaker
And so don't laser focus on any one particular aspect of your life to the detriment of all others.
00:58:28
Speaker
You are a fully actualized individual with a whole lot of depth and interests.
00:58:35
Speaker
And if you're not, it's your job to become that.
00:58:38
Speaker
Words of wisdom.
00:58:39
Speaker
Thank you.
00:58:40
Speaker
Judge Lynn Toler, everybody.
00:58:42
Speaker
Thank you.
00:58:43
Speaker
I had a ball, ladies.
00:58:44
Speaker
You have a wonderful evening.
00:58:45
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:58:46
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:58:48
Speaker
And that's our show.
00:58:49
Speaker
Please check out our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com as well as our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy where you can hear weekly bonus content as well as Roast to Scroats.
00:59:01
Speaker
Also, please follow us on Twitter at fem.strat.
00:59:03
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
00:59:05
Speaker
And for all you Scroats out there, this episode is adjourned.