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Disability, Community Theatre, and Christian Movies with Andrew Gommesen
21 Plays2 years ago
In this episode Jon talks with Andrew Gommesen about his podcast and the way he has pursued art through that, the value and pitfalls of Christian movies, and his experience in continuing to pursue storytelling and acting with his disability.
Andrew has hosted the Speaking4Him podcast for eleven years, where he discusses theology and culture. He regularly pursues creative endeavors through his podcast, including radio theatre productions, and has worked with Master Arts Theatre as an assistant director and actor. You can find out more about Andrew at his website here:
http://speaking4him.com/index.php
Sign up for our newsletter: https://www.artistsoftheway.com/contact.html
Find out more about Godspell: https://www.artistsoftheway.com/godspell.html
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Transcript
Getting into Character: Ghost of Christmas Present
00:00:04
Speaker
Ghost of Christmas Present was by far the biggest role I've ever done on stage and so the fact that she was willing to say well the crowd can suspend belief and you just have to make yourself believable in the character and I really do feel that as the show went on I got more and more into character I was not able to pull off the British accent I always tell people I was probably every fourth word was British and if that was okay with people that was fine but
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello, everybody.
Meet the Guest: Andrew Gommason
00:00:36
Speaker
Welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm John, the host.
00:00:38
Speaker
Today, I'm joined by a good friend of mine, Andrew Gommason.
00:00:43
Speaker
Andrew is a traveling preacher with his organization Speaking for Him.
00:00:47
Speaker
He's done the Speaking for Him podcast for almost 11 years now.
00:00:51
Speaker
You're coming up on your 11th anniversary next month, right?
00:00:55
Speaker
Probably this month by the time this is posted.
00:00:57
Speaker
Correct.
00:00:58
Speaker
October 12th will be the 11th anniversary.
00:01:02
Speaker
That's exciting.
00:01:04
Speaker
With that, you've done a lot of cool creative projects.
00:01:08
Speaker
I know you've done a lot of readers theater.
Acting and 'Christmas Carol' Involvement
00:01:11
Speaker
And then Andrew has also assistant directed several productions with Master Arts as well and recently took the stage in Christmas Carol, which was really cool to see.
00:01:19
Speaker
So how are you doing today?
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm doing really well.
00:01:22
Speaker
I'm excited to be here.
00:01:23
Speaker
I've really enjoyed your podcast thus far.
00:01:27
Speaker
I just told my brother the other day that I feel like
00:01:31
Speaker
You're farther along in your podcasting acumen than I was 11 years ago.
00:01:37
Speaker
So it's kind of cool to see.
00:01:39
Speaker
Thanks.
00:01:39
Speaker
I mean, I am assisted by the advent of technology and podcast is much more in the zeitgeist now than it was 11 years ago.
00:01:48
Speaker
So there's a lot of resources out there for sure.
00:01:51
Speaker
That is very true.
00:01:52
Speaker
That is very true.
00:01:54
Speaker
Awesome.
00:01:55
Speaker
Cool.
00:01:55
Speaker
Well, I want to dive
Podcasting and Playwriting Passion
00:01:56
Speaker
right in.
00:01:56
Speaker
I've got a couple questions that I ask every guest that I've got on here.
00:02:00
Speaker
First, what is it that you are working on right now?
00:02:06
Speaker
Well, right now I am continuously working on the podcast and I'm actually in the process of writing a full-length passion plate
00:02:19
Speaker
that's kind of based on some of the monologues that I've done for my podcast.
00:02:24
Speaker
John is familiar, but for several Good Fridays, I've done one-person monologues that gave a first-person perspective on a major character.
00:02:37
Speaker
From the passion story, one time I did Simon of Cyrene and our mutual friend, Greg Apel,
00:02:46
Speaker
did that role for me and you played the apostle john for me one year i had a friend play mary mother of jesus one year so i've just had a lot of fun with those type of things and i decided to take up the challenge of writing a full cast recording uh well a full cast play based on those monologues and the research that i did there and hopefully i
00:03:16
Speaker
be able to present it to Master Arts at a future time.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:03:22
Speaker
Cool.
00:03:22
Speaker
That's exciting.
Faith and Art: Influence and Representation
00:03:23
Speaker
I'm excited to see because I really enjoyed when I did that.
00:03:27
Speaker
That narrative was really cool.
00:03:28
Speaker
And I've enjoyed listening to them.
00:03:30
Speaker
They've always been a cool
00:03:33
Speaker
a unique artistic thing to kind of get you in the shoes of the people that are experiencing what was happening in the, in the gospel time.
00:03:40
Speaker
So I feel like a, a wider show based on that could be really sweet and would be, would be great in a black box setting.
00:03:47
Speaker
So that would be awesome.
00:03:49
Speaker
Sweet.
00:03:49
Speaker
So as you're working on those things, or maybe as you're just in taking art, as we all do, what are some ways that God's been using art in your life right now?
00:03:59
Speaker
Well, I think some people will say,
00:04:02
Speaker
Because I actually recently heard a clip from Vadi Bakam who was talking about Jesus and the portrayals of Jesus.
00:04:11
Speaker
And someone asked him, do you encourage your people to take down images of white Jesus?
00:04:21
Speaker
Because, you know, there's this controversy that Jesus wasn't actually white.
00:04:24
Speaker
And so our portrayals of him fall short because he wasn't white.
00:04:29
Speaker
But actually, I don't think he was black either.
00:04:31
Speaker
So that's kind of an interesting conversation for another time.
00:04:35
Speaker
But what I'm getting to is he said, well, I don't really think of images of a white Jesus or a black Jesus because I think any portrayal of Jesus is a violation of the second commandment.
00:04:47
Speaker
That's essentially what he said.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I, I don't think so because I think that God is the author of story.
00:04:54
Speaker
And I think Jesus used stories to teach lessons.
00:04:58
Speaker
And so I think we should portray him with humility.
00:05:03
Speaker
We should portray him with awe.
00:05:05
Speaker
We should be sure that we are being biblical about it.
00:05:08
Speaker
But I think showing him as flesh and bones on stage is actually a good thing and a great opportunity.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:17
Speaker
One of my friends who I've had on the podcast, John Taylor, graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary.
00:05:23
Speaker
He's very sharp theologically and has a huge passion for like multi-ethnic ministry and things like that.
00:05:33
Speaker
He really wants at some point in his office to like commission a painting of four different Jesuses across different ethnicities because he and I both feel...
00:05:46
Speaker
that there's a certain beauty in a culture being able to look at Jesus and take some ownership of this is my Messiah, you know, not that he, not to disrespect that he was obviously Israeli.
00:05:59
Speaker
He was a Jewish man, you know, so he was obviously Middle Eastern heritage, but the idea that people can look at Jesus and be like, yes, that's, that's my Jesus.
00:06:10
Speaker
That's my savior who came to save me regardless of the ethnicity or the culture I think is,
00:06:17
Speaker
can be a really cool act of worship for cultures.
00:06:20
Speaker
So, yeah, I think it's cool to see the ways people can kind of, not reinterpret that, but I guess they're different perspectives on the Christ, you know?
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:06:34
Speaker
I think that, as I said, I think it needs to be with regard and respect for the biblical source.
00:06:42
Speaker
You and I have talked before this about
00:06:45
Speaker
how I kind of bristle as some of the more modern interpretations, because when I, when I portray Jesus through the podcast, my desire is to portray the biblical Jesus.
00:06:58
Speaker
And if I do add something, quote unquote, to the story, it's something that is plausible.
00:07:04
Speaker
I very much take the same approach in my mind, as I feel that Dallas Jenkins takes with the chosen where he's not trying to
00:07:14
Speaker
reinvent the story but he's just asking the question what are the people around jesus going through what are their thought processes we know that peter had a wife for instance because jesus healed his mother-in-law so what was that husband and wife dynamic between peter and his wife and how might that have influenced his writing of
00:07:37
Speaker
Peter when he says husbands, uh, love your wives and give reference to them as onto the weaker vessel.
00:07:45
Speaker
Obviously he was speaking from experience.
Theater Love and Master Arts
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:07:50
Speaker
Awesome.
00:07:51
Speaker
Cool.
00:07:51
Speaker
So I want to, I want to dive in, um,
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really, I want to talk to you about the podcast some too, but I also want to talk to you about some of your involvement in Master Arts and what kind of led you there.
00:08:04
Speaker
And then also, I didn't mention this because I don't think of it as a major defining thing of you, but you also have disability, you're in a wheelchair.
00:08:14
Speaker
And so I feel like that affects us, I mean, it's a big part of your life.
00:08:18
Speaker
So it certainly affects you.
00:08:20
Speaker
the way that you can do art.
00:08:22
Speaker
And so I'm definitely curious into diving into some of those things.
00:08:27
Speaker
But to start, I guess, with theater, because you definitely have a huge love for master arts when we've talked about it.
00:08:35
Speaker
You've assistant directed several things.
00:08:37
Speaker
And again, we're able to be on stage in Christmas Carol, which was so fun.
00:08:42
Speaker
What was it that kind of led you first into wanting to get involved
Challenges of Theater with Disability
00:08:46
Speaker
in theater?
00:08:46
Speaker
And then I guess with master arts in particular, even beyond that?
00:08:56
Speaker
Well, what's interesting about that story is I've always had an actor's bug in me.
00:09:02
Speaker
From the time I was like seven, I thought, well, what I really want to do is I want to do commercials and I want to eventually start my own sitcom.
00:09:13
Speaker
When I started watching Full House as a kid, I was like about the third or fourth season.
00:09:18
Speaker
I was like, how cool would it be if I got to be on Full House and then became a series regular and got to hang out with
00:09:26
Speaker
all those wonderful people on that show.
00:09:29
Speaker
And Jody Sweeten was one of my first crushes, TV crushes.
00:09:34
Speaker
So I always thought it'd be cool to hang out with Stephanie.
00:09:37
Speaker
But I just always have enjoyed the idea of acting.
00:09:42
Speaker
I went to civic theater as a kid and,
00:09:46
Speaker
to see several productions and then I found out about their acting camp.
00:09:51
Speaker
So I went to the civic theater acting camp in 1992 and 1993.
00:09:57
Speaker
We discovered master arts actually in 2003.
00:10:02
Speaker
I guess my parents had known a little bit about them before that, but we, we discovered them as a family in 2003 because my brother, Matthew,
00:10:11
Speaker
um was asked to come out and fill a gap they needed people for pirates and pen vans and i was actually talking to brad garnett when i went and saw jane air just this past weekend because he was in the first production of
00:10:32
Speaker
that I saw at Master Arts 20 years ago, and he was in Jane Eyre.
00:10:35
Speaker
So this September marked 20 years of being involved with Master Arts.
00:10:40
Speaker
And so, so far, Brad Garnott has bookended that experience for me, which I think is kind of awesome, actually, to think about.
00:10:51
Speaker
But I've been to almost every show that Master Arts has done since then because I just really enjoyed it.
00:10:59
Speaker
And the day that I saw...
00:11:01
Speaker
Pirates of Penzance.
00:11:03
Speaker
I remember coming into the building that we have there for Master Arts and being like, how are they going to pull off Pirates of Penzance in this space?
00:11:10
Speaker
Cause they'd already seen it at a college and it's a big show, but they did.
00:11:17
Speaker
And over and over and over, we asked that question and over and over and over, we pull it off.
00:11:23
Speaker
I mean, I think the biggest surprise, even though I knew it was possible,
00:11:28
Speaker
I was still shocked when I worked on Sound of Music and realized that we could do a 38-person cast and pull off the Sound of Music in that small space.
00:11:40
Speaker
But thanks to Pris' ingenuity, Pris McDonald, the late founder and executive director of Master Arts for many years, thanks to her ingenuity and her vision, we pulled it off and it was one of the most
00:11:57
Speaker
amazing experiences I've ever had in theater.
00:11:59
Speaker
It's still probably my favorite production I've ever been involved in.
00:12:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:12:04
Speaker
What was the first project that you did at Master Arts or that you were involved with?
00:12:09
Speaker
The first thing I did at Master Arts was to portray Sam Wainwright in It's a Wonderful Life in 2005.
00:12:16
Speaker
Because there was just one scene that he did and it was one half of a phone call they showed
00:12:24
Speaker
both halves of the phone call on stage, which is actually really challenging because we were talking to each other across the stage, but we couldn't look at each other.
00:12:33
Speaker
I always wanted to look at them, but you can't look at somebody who is on the phone with you in the 1930s because they didn't have FaceTime.
00:12:42
Speaker
So that was the challenge, but it was really fun.
00:12:49
Speaker
At the time that we did it, there were five Gamma Sins,
00:12:54
Speaker
five of my family in it.
00:12:55
Speaker
And there were five Van Lopics, which was another mainstay family at Master Arts.
00:13:01
Speaker
And so when they did a newspaper article about us, they focused on those two families.
00:13:08
Speaker
And back at that time, there were several years where they reprised their Christmas show the next year for a shortened weekend at outside venues.
00:13:18
Speaker
And so we did It's a Wonderful Life.
00:13:20
Speaker
you know, six and the inside joke was that there were six Gamasens and five Van Lobbicks the next year because my brother, Matthew, married somebody from the cast.
00:13:30
Speaker
And so she became a Gamasen.
00:13:33
Speaker
And, uh, so that was exciting.
00:13:36
Speaker
That's fun.
00:13:37
Speaker
What do you feel like have been, I guess, some of the challenges and maybe if there have been some of the blessings of working in theater with disability, um,
00:13:50
Speaker
Cause it's, well, I definitely think involved.
00:13:54
Speaker
Well, I definitely think that the challenges are finding a place, you know, I do enjoy assistant directing.
00:14:02
Speaker
I hope to sit in the main director's chair someday.
00:14:05
Speaker
Uh, but my passion is actually the stage.
00:14:09
Speaker
Um, I wish there
Theater Adaptations and Accessibility
00:14:11
Speaker
were more roles I could do that were believable and,
00:14:14
Speaker
I'm really proud of Lorna Torres for believing in me and allowing me to be in the show as the ghost of Christmas present and putting it on the audience to suspend belief.
00:14:27
Speaker
Because at first when I, when I was going to do it, I had this thought that we would use my manual chair to be less conspicuous than my electric chair, but that would have made it extremely difficult for me to move around.
00:14:42
Speaker
and have somebody push me, especially since it was such an involved role, like the ghost of Christmas present was by far the biggest role I've ever done on stage.
00:14:51
Speaker
And so the fact that she was willing to say, well, look, the crowd can suspend belief and you just have to make yourself believable in the character.
00:15:01
Speaker
And I really do feel that as the show went on,
00:15:04
Speaker
I got more and more into character.
00:15:06
Speaker
I was not able to pull off the British accent.
00:15:09
Speaker
I always tell people I was probably every fourth word was British.
00:15:13
Speaker
And if that was okay with people, that was fine, but.
00:15:18
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:15:19
Speaker
No, it was really cool to see.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I feel like audiences in more recent years, I just think, I think in general in theater, there's more of a movement of trying to accommodate for disability on stage.
00:15:32
Speaker
Like there was a production of Hunchback.
00:15:36
Speaker
Oh, I don't even remember where it was, but it was, they had a deaf and mute actor playing Quasimodo.
00:15:43
Speaker
Um,
00:15:45
Speaker
And then one of the gargoyles would like sing for him.
00:15:47
Speaker
I think he still said the lines, but he was completely deaf.
00:15:52
Speaker
And so there's definitely been a lot of movement into how can we integrate disability into people with disabilities into theater and give them the opportunity to portray stories and be on stage because there's people like you who have a passion for it where there maybe necessarily hasn't been a great amount of space before.
00:16:11
Speaker
And so I think it's cool that
00:16:14
Speaker
theaters in general are trying to move that way and I think audiences are are getting more on board with it and they're like oh yeah I can kind of suspend my disbelief and the ghost of Christmas present can just kind of be floating around and that just you know it worked it worked in the context of the story and so that was really cool to see well I think that one of the challenges is that most theatrical pieces are period pieces like we don't usually do
00:16:38
Speaker
a play set in 2023 and so everybody's modern so everybody has cell phones or or electronic wheelchairs that just doesn't happen and so that's part of it is you're telling a story that is actually very old and so you want to be true to the story but at the same time yes i'm just so thankful that
00:17:04
Speaker
Chris saw beyond that and was like, we can use this guy.
00:17:09
Speaker
I think part of it was that there weren't a lot of people that would do that small of a part.
00:17:14
Speaker
So I think when you're willing to do any part, you get more opportunities.
00:17:17
Speaker
And that's the way I've always been because truth be told, being in theater is for the most part about getting to spend three months with a group of people and getting to know them.
00:17:29
Speaker
So regardless of whether I'm,
00:17:31
Speaker
behind the curtain or center stage, I'm having a blast the whole time.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:17:38
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:17:39
Speaker
So you've kind of, excuse me, spun out of, um, some of the experiences you've had in theater and acting and assistant directing and taken that into your podcast with some readers
Radio Theater and 'Pilgrim's Progress' Adaptation
00:17:52
Speaker
theater.
00:17:52
Speaker
So we've talked a little bit about the gospel pieces, but I know, um,
00:17:56
Speaker
just recently, well, recently, a couple years ago in COVID, you did Pilgrim's Progress as well.
00:18:02
Speaker
What's it been like working on those radio theater kind of productions?
00:18:06
Speaker
And do you, like, what's special about those for you?
00:18:11
Speaker
I like the radio theater thing because I could play any role for one thing.
00:18:18
Speaker
You know, my wheelchair doesn't limit me if I'm using my voice.
00:18:23
Speaker
The thing for me is I struggle with
00:18:26
Speaker
changing my voice and as i already said i struggle with accents so pretty much i mean with with a few solid vocal inflections here and there pretty much my voice is what you hear i'm never gonna be this crazy guy like jim carrey or somebody like that that can just change up their voice totally and you're like i know i know that guy but i don't know where from you'll always know it's me
00:18:51
Speaker
But I like the fact that that radio theater or even animation maybe someday is a venue where I could play any part because my legs don't matter.
00:19:04
Speaker
I think one of the cool things about Pilgrim's Progress was that I wanted to do it for like five years.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I was thinking about doing it in the studio of JQ99 because for those who don't know, my first seven years of podcasting were in a radio studio.
00:19:23
Speaker
And then every time we started to think about scheduling the times so I could recruit actors, then it got pushed off.
00:19:32
Speaker
I had like two or three times where I was going to host it and then there were problems with my co-hosts.
00:19:40
Speaker
And then COVID happened and you think, well, that just closed the door entirely.
00:19:44
Speaker
But actually it opened it wider because the ability to have people come together on Zoom in their own homes and produce a radio theater production of A Pilgrim with Progress was really amazing.
00:19:58
Speaker
And I was able to have an easier job of adapting it because it was already done.
00:20:04
Speaker
kind of written like a play in a lot of places in the story.
00:20:08
Speaker
And so I just took it and basically word for word, there were a couple of things that I changed because it is in the public domain, uh, that wouldn't necessarily be as kosher today.
00:20:19
Speaker
Um, or it would be unclear, but for the most part, I wanted to keep the wording, uh, because I think it's a powerful story and I was able to do it and it was really a great thing.
00:20:30
Speaker
And it's, it,
00:20:31
Speaker
Spanned 10 episodes of my podcast.
00:20:33
Speaker
So that made it easier from a production standpoint of having to come up with new stuff every week.
00:20:39
Speaker
And I really had a vision to do it once a year, but that hasn't worked out because once COVID was over, people were busy doing live theater and they weren't as available to do the radio theater thing.
00:20:51
Speaker
I'm still hoping to do some more.
00:20:54
Speaker
I actually have Anna Green Gables all scripted out and ready to go.
00:20:58
Speaker
As my next production, if I can pull people together, but it's been a struggle to do that, but that really made 2020 a special time, even though it was also a time when I was kind of pulling my hair out.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:21:13
Speaker
It was really interesting to see.
00:21:14
Speaker
And I think Pilgrim's Progress was one of the more, as I look back on it, one of the more special ones.
00:21:19
Speaker
But just all the ways that artists adapted to the challenge of we can't do our art together.
00:21:26
Speaker
And so, like, there were so many, like, virtual script readings just for fun that I was...
00:21:33
Speaker
invited to be a part of like everybody was creating these different little online communities but it was really special with pilgrims progress to just dip in and then dip out because i played a couple different roles there um and i think i was probably only in like half the episodes but it was cool to dip in and dip out and be a part of the broader project that was also like accomplishing something we weren't just doing it
00:22:00
Speaker
for our own enjoyment of it, like a lot of the COVID production things.
00:22:04
Speaker
But that one was like, we're putting out a piece of art actually still, even with all the restrictions that we have going on and everything going on in the world.
00:22:14
Speaker
And so that was really cool.
00:22:16
Speaker
And it is available for free of charge on my website to this day, but I am hoping that eventually I can
00:22:24
Speaker
figure out how to do a storefront where I will sell probably at a donation rate just the dramatic parts because I always do intro stuff and at that time I was doing current events and news reaction at the top of every show.
00:22:42
Speaker
Now I've split that off into two podcasts so I actually do a news and information from a Christian perspective podcast called Culture Watch every Monday and then I do my
00:22:53
Speaker
Speaking for Him podcast on every Wednesday on the same podcast stream.
00:22:58
Speaker
So if you subscribe to Speaking for Him, you'll get both.
00:23:01
Speaker
But you have a choice because I actually had some people really bristle at my political stances, even that were involved in that project.
00:23:14
Speaker
So that was kind of a challenge, too, that you don't anticipate, because I think part of me
00:23:22
Speaker
naively thinks that because someone's a Christian, they're going to agree with me on what I consider to be the major moral issues.
00:23:31
Speaker
Right.
00:23:32
Speaker
And that's not necessarily the case.
00:23:34
Speaker
So that was definitely a culture shock of sorts for me.
00:23:38
Speaker
And just trying to love people within that space, but then also stay true to what I know, I believe has been a challenge.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, and that's definitely a challenge of... I just think Christian art in general is how can we be ecumenical, but also not have to feel like we're not being true to what we believe, you know?
00:24:03
Speaker
So I think because there's Christians from every political walk of life and different viewpoint, and we definitely, in the work I've done at Master Arts and stuff, we definitely...
00:24:15
Speaker
I mean, Master Arts is even broader.
00:24:18
Speaker
We're blessed to have a lot of non-Christians that come and enjoy creating art there as well.
00:24:22
Speaker
But I just think, yeah, it's interesting to navigate if, you know, you're called to be a preacher, that's a core part of your calling and, you know, implementing sort of the reaction, news reaction and political commentating sort of side to your podcast.
00:24:41
Speaker
You know, how do you
00:24:43
Speaker
Navigate that while also navigating these ecumenical relationships of people from different walks of life.
00:24:50
Speaker
I have no answers there.
00:24:51
Speaker
I'm just pontificating.
00:24:53
Speaker
I think that's an interesting aspect of art, too, is because I know some people, as the Kendrick brothers started coming out with movies, I know of a particular acquaintance that I have who said, well, their movies are just too preachy.
00:25:08
Speaker
Because they always talk about the gospel.
00:25:10
Speaker
They always bring people to decision.
00:25:12
Speaker
That's the way their stories work.
00:25:14
Speaker
But the point of that and the reason for that is because the Kendrick brothers were all pastors before they started making movies.
00:25:25
Speaker
So they're going to make a movie from a pastor's perspective.
00:25:29
Speaker
And you and I have talked, you kind of have a pastor's heart too.
00:25:33
Speaker
So when you make art, I'm sure that comes into your thought process of how you make art, that you kind of make it from a pastoral perspective, whereas somebody else might not.
00:25:45
Speaker
The Irwin brothers aren't quite as preachy with their movies as the Kendrick brothers are, even though the Irwin brothers tell true stories.
00:25:56
Speaker
Because I know my dad and I,
00:25:59
Speaker
went and saw American Underdog one of the things he said that was the Kurt Warner movie for those who don't know the story of Kurt Warner who went from stocking grocery shelves to being a Super Bowl champion quarterback with the St.
00:26:12
Speaker
Louis Rams but my dad came away from that saying well they should have talked more directly about his faith because his faith is very important to him and I think what the
00:26:24
Speaker
erwin brothers do is they tell a story and they hope that it encourages you to investigate the true story more you know they're not necessarily there to shove the message down your throat but they want you to find out more about the true story yeah and and like there's value in both because god created and shaped both and so you know and i mean you've got the whole spectrum like even to um
00:26:51
Speaker
like actors that are deeply Christian, but it doesn't really like, so like, uh, my brain went all scatterbrained there.
00:27:00
Speaker
Let me reset my sentences.
00:27:04
Speaker
I grew up on a show called Star Wars, The Clone Wars, which is a Star Wars show set during a particular time period in Star Wars.
00:27:12
Speaker
I don't need to geek out about Star Wars right now.
00:27:14
Speaker
But it was an animated show, and all three of the lead actors, at least at the time, if not still, were all Christians.
00:27:22
Speaker
And if you look on their social media, that's definitely very evident.
00:27:26
Speaker
But since it was the world of Star Wars, it's...
00:27:29
Speaker
their faith was not necessarily a part of the story they were telling blatantly, but like they're still able to, through the community that they're in impact people, they're still able to, through the positive elements of the stories they're telling, God can use that.
00:27:46
Speaker
And so I think through that whole spectrum, God has created people that he wants to use in different avenues.
00:27:56
Speaker
Cause I've been,
00:27:58
Speaker
impacted by Star Wars The Clone Wars and by those voice actors and their performances.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I enjoy that.
00:28:03
Speaker
It brings me a lot of joy.
00:28:04
Speaker
And a lot of those characters are very inspiring to me.
00:28:07
Speaker
And I've also been impacted by a Kendrick's Brothers movie, even though they're kind of more preachy than I would want to make a story personally.
00:28:16
Speaker
I've gone and seen a movie and it's hit me where I was at in my life.
00:28:19
Speaker
And I was like, wow, OK, that was preachy, but that was encouraging to me, you know.
00:28:24
Speaker
And so I think God can really use
00:28:28
Speaker
his people on any side of that spectrum.
00:28:31
Speaker
Well, I was already doing speaking for him and ministry things, or at least on the cusp of speaking for him when courageous came out, but courageous really, uh, as an example, solidified, uh,
00:28:46
Speaker
my desire to continue doing what I'm doing and to broaden my efforts to bring people back to the blueprint of God's word because that was the goal of the Kendrick brothers when they made the film and it really spoke to me and you can argue that they make their movies largely for Christians and not as much for non-Christians but sometimes Christians need to be encouraged too and sometimes it's not
00:29:14
Speaker
you need to repent and believe the gospel.
00:29:16
Speaker
Sometimes it's, well, if you believe the gospel, you need to start living like you believe the gospel.
00:29:22
Speaker
And I really feel like that's my main calling with speaking for him too.
00:29:27
Speaker
I have a heart for the lost.
00:29:29
Speaker
I want everyone to come to know the Lord Jesus and to come to know the powerful presence that he is and can be in their lives.
00:29:38
Speaker
But when I started speaking for him, it was because I saw so many people in the church
00:29:43
Speaker
living milquetoast Christian lives and saying, you know, we could do so much more for God if we would be sold out and 100% passionate for him.
00:29:53
Speaker
Do I hit that mark every single time?
00:29:55
Speaker
No, I don't.
00:29:56
Speaker
But I think aiming high, even if you miss a mark when you aim high, you still hit a higher mark when you aim low.
00:30:03
Speaker
And I think there's so many areas in life where people are victimized by the soft bigotry of low expectations, and they just
00:30:11
Speaker
don't set high marks for themselves.
00:30:13
Speaker
They set low marks and they're like, Oh, I reached my low mark.
00:30:17
Speaker
I'm not going to go any further, but we need to be better.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, I totally agree.
00:30:22
Speaker
And there's great value in that.
00:30:25
Speaker
And I think there's a lot of people that would... And I mean, I'm guilty of this.
00:30:29
Speaker
I mock the stereotypical Christian movie, because there are some very bad ones that try and be preachy and are just not well done in any sense, just because they're bad movies.
00:30:41
Speaker
But I think...
00:30:43
Speaker
There's value for us as an audience and as artists who can get really passionate about things to take a step back and be like, okay, well, that person does have that particular calling to that particular group of people to this particular theme.
00:30:57
Speaker
And that's what God's placed in them.
00:30:59
Speaker
And if that's where God has them, even if that's their...
00:31:04
Speaker
sort of realm and it's not where I would necessarily go, I can be grateful and glad that they're functioning well in that lane, even if it's not what I'm interested in, even if aesthetically it's not something that I would even necessarily enjoy, I can see the good that it's doing and say, okay, that's not for me necessarily, but God has them working well in the lane he has them in.
00:31:28
Speaker
And so I'm happy for them and praise God for that.
00:31:32
Speaker
Well, that brings up an interesting point too.
00:31:34
Speaker
And that is, I think with particularly the pure flicks, God's not dead franchise.
00:31:41
Speaker
I saw the latest one.
00:31:43
Speaker
God's not dead.
00:31:44
Speaker
We the people.
00:31:44
Speaker
And I was like, this is a powerful movie, but I feel like it would be even more powerful if it wasn't part of the God's not dead franchise.
00:31:53
Speaker
Because trying to squeeze in the same pastor character and,
00:31:59
Speaker
a couple other characters just to tie it in.
00:32:02
Speaker
I feel like it made it a weaker film.
00:32:05
Speaker
And whenever they come out with a God's Not Dead movie, the first thought in my mind is, we know God's Not Dead.
00:32:12
Speaker
Why do you keep telling us that?
00:32:14
Speaker
And so I think that there's something to be said for making a movie with a powerful story, but not having to tie it into another franchise.
00:32:24
Speaker
Well, and that's even, that's going to be even a entertainment industry wide issue of
00:32:30
Speaker
everything is trying to franchise, at least in the film world.
00:32:34
Speaker
I feel like it's very rare to get a just really original idea that people latch onto.
00:32:42
Speaker
But that's what audiences want.
00:32:44
Speaker
I think that's why...
00:32:45
Speaker
Barbie and Oppenheimer did so well, which granted Barbie's a franchise, but like it was just an original movie that wasn't, didn't have to come with baggage that people were able to just step into, enjoy a story and then step out of.
00:32:57
Speaker
There's definitely value in that, which I think theater does really well.
00:33:00
Speaker
Like theater, it's kind of probably because it's hard for theater to franchise, but it's pretty good at being like, let's present a new story and step into that story for a temporary time and then it's done.
00:33:10
Speaker
And then we move on to another one.
00:33:12
Speaker
But I think film struggles to do that.
00:33:13
Speaker
There's only,
00:33:15
Speaker
There's only a couple of theatrical places where there actually are sequels.
00:33:20
Speaker
I know there's three Sanders family plays and there's actually, um, a play that Nate and Ellie Knobloch who were on the show, uh, they did last year that they're going to continue that story in another play.
00:33:37
Speaker
So there's a couple of them, but for the most part, you're right.
00:33:40
Speaker
Plays are kind of a one and done.
00:33:43
Speaker
And if there is a book series, they will do like one, one movie or one play that's based on the whole series.
00:33:52
Speaker
Like they did with that home in Midford, which was a bit of a stretch and a little hard to watch for that reason, even though I did like it.
00:34:00
Speaker
But then there's also like the Chronicles of Narnia where they basically everybody shows the lion, the witch and the wardrobe and not very many people have staged the other ones.
00:34:09
Speaker
So I find that very interesting about theater.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like when there's a sequel in theater, with the exception of the sequel to Phantom of the Opera, because I think that's creatively bankrupt.
00:34:23
Speaker
I didn't even know there was one, so this could be another discussion.
00:34:27
Speaker
My brother likes it, so I shouldn't speak too poorly of it, but he also doesn't listen to the podcast, so I could bash it and it'd be fine.
00:34:35
Speaker
But it undoes a lot of the story.
00:34:38
Speaker
Andrew Lloyd Webber write another musical?
00:34:41
Speaker
He did.
00:34:41
Speaker
It's not good.
00:34:43
Speaker
It undoes a lot of the original one, and I think it was just made to make money.
00:34:50
Speaker
But that's a conversation for another time.
00:34:53
Speaker
Outside of that one, I feel like, when sequels happen.
00:34:55
Speaker
It's interesting that you mention that, because I was just talking to my brother last night about whether anybody had ever made a movie out of the book that wasn't a musical.
00:35:06
Speaker
Because it is a book, the musical.
00:35:09
Speaker
musicals based on which i've never read by the way i'm not gonna sit here and say that i read it um my my brother matthew was in a non-musical play production of it which was pretty interesting um and i love the music i love the musical but i feel like there'd be more chance for the storytelling if you did one that was a non-musical
00:35:31
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like there were some classic movies about it, like back in the 20s and 30s, when there was all the big universal movie monsters and all that.
00:35:41
Speaker
I feel like that was one of them, but I can't remember for sure.
00:35:47
Speaker
But yeah, I do feel like usually play sequels are done for the art of the thing.
00:35:54
Speaker
They have a story they want to continue, which I think is...
00:35:57
Speaker
is cool because theater just in general doesn't usually make money so it's more for the for the art of it well another another sequel on the do not watch list which i haven't watched but my uncle told me absolutely do not watch this is hamlet 2 i've heard it's very irreverent and
00:36:17
Speaker
just played comedically.
00:36:18
Speaker
Obviously everybody died in Hamlet.
00:36:20
Speaker
So the only way you're going to have to play it comedically, but it is an actual movie.
00:36:25
Speaker
Oh no.
00:36:26
Speaker
I'm like, how do you even continue that story?
00:36:29
Speaker
Oh goodness.
00:36:31
Speaker
Hey friends, I hope you're enjoying today's episode.
00:36:33
Speaker
I just wanted to take a second to share with you guys the exciting project that's in the works here at Artists of the Way.
00:36:39
Speaker
We're going to be staging a production of Godspell in 2024.
00:36:43
Speaker
Godspell is a musical based on the Gospel of Matthew.
00:36:46
Speaker
The script is comprised mostly of excerpts from the Gospel of Matthew.
00:36:51
Speaker
And the songs are mostly old hymns or straight scripture, which has been recomposed into kind of a rock musical theater style song.
00:37:00
Speaker
It's a wonderful show.
00:37:01
Speaker
I grew up on it.
00:37:02
Speaker
It's been a passion project of mine to direct for five years, and I'm so excited to tackle it.
00:37:07
Speaker
If you want to know more about that, you can visit our website, artistsoftheway.com, and visit our Godspell page.
00:37:14
Speaker
There you'll be able to find show details and information on fundraising if you're interested in helping support the production.
00:37:20
Speaker
If you want to stay up to date with everything regarding Godspell or our podcast, sign up for our email newsletter.
00:37:27
Speaker
We have a newsletter that goes out every two weeks.
00:37:29
Speaker
We'll let you know when new episodes are posted.
00:37:31
Speaker
I'll share some thoughts that I've had over the last couple weeks, and we'll be keeping you guys up to date on everything Godspell related.
00:37:38
Speaker
Thanks.
00:37:39
Speaker
Enjoy the rest of the show.
00:37:43
Speaker
I'm curious, kind of looking at your faith life and touching again on the topic of disability.
00:37:49
Speaker
What are some ways you feel like your disability has impacted your relationship with God in your spiritual life in some negative ways and maybe in some positive ways that he's used that to your benefit?
00:38:04
Speaker
Well, it started out very negative.
00:38:06
Speaker
And by that, I mean, I was raised in a Christian home.
00:38:09
Speaker
My parents always told me that God does things for a purpose.
00:38:14
Speaker
They knew that God had a
00:38:16
Speaker
special plan for my life.
00:38:18
Speaker
They told me that from a very young age.
00:38:20
Speaker
I remember one time my mom pointed out the scripture in Deuteronomy that talked about how the firstborn are to be dedicated to the Lord.
00:38:28
Speaker
And she said, I take that seriously.
00:38:30
Speaker
I dedicated you to the Lord.
00:38:32
Speaker
I believe that you're going to do marvelous things for him.
00:38:35
Speaker
And so that was the upbringing that I had, which was good.
00:38:39
Speaker
And I came to know the Lord personally right before my fifth birthday because my great grandfather died.
00:38:46
Speaker
I asked my mom, I said, did he go to heaven?
00:38:49
Speaker
And she said, I don't know.
00:38:51
Speaker
They don't know what he did with Jesus.
00:38:53
Speaker
And it was at that point that I realized I needed to make a personal decision about who Jesus was in my life, not just who he was in the Bible.
00:39:04
Speaker
And I made a commitment to follow him.
00:39:09
Speaker
But the next day I still couldn't walk.
00:39:11
Speaker
The next day I still had to grapple.
00:39:13
Speaker
with the idea of being a disabled young man who couldn't do a lot of the things I wanted to do.
00:39:21
Speaker
So the next nine years were really a journey of bitterness and confusion and struggle with the way God made me.
00:39:30
Speaker
And I think everybody struggles with identity.
00:39:33
Speaker
I think as we see these issues crop up, particularly in the gender field,
00:39:40
Speaker
I'm not going to get too far into left field with that.
00:39:42
Speaker
But I think a lot of it stems from the fact that God created us with a particular identity and we all struggle at one time or another with how he made us.
00:39:52
Speaker
And so for nine years, that was the struggle.
00:39:55
Speaker
God, if you would heal me, then I could serve you.
00:39:57
Speaker
If you would heal me, then I could do great things.
00:40:00
Speaker
But since you haven't, since my temporary assignment stinks, I'm just going to be mad at you.
00:40:07
Speaker
And when I was 13, I,
00:40:09
Speaker
My three-month-old baby brother died of sin.
00:40:14
Speaker
He went to bed for a nap and never woke up.
00:40:16
Speaker
And at that time, I remember weeping multiple times in my mom's arms saying, why did God take my healthy baby brother and leave me when I'm completely useless?
00:40:29
Speaker
That was my perspective on my life was that I was completely useless.
00:40:34
Speaker
And so what followed was a really bad year for me.
00:40:37
Speaker
where I was angry at God.
00:40:38
Speaker
I never walked away from God.
00:40:41
Speaker
I really struggle with people who say that they totally walked away from God or failed to see that God existed because I feel like when God does a work in your spirit, you can't truly walk away from him.
00:40:56
Speaker
But I was definitely mad at him, but I was arguing with him a lot.
00:40:59
Speaker
So you can't argue with someone that you don't believe in.
00:41:02
Speaker
So, but that was my journey.
00:41:05
Speaker
And,
00:41:06
Speaker
When I was 14, about a year later, I went to a conference and one of the sessions was on 10 things you can't change about yourself.
00:41:15
Speaker
And one of those was the way you're made physically.
00:41:17
Speaker
And I was just faced between the eyes with this idea that God made me for a purpose and I have to be thankful for my disability because it was God's plan for me.
00:41:29
Speaker
And it was at that point that
00:41:33
Speaker
I committed to getting off the throne of my life and letting God take full control.
00:41:37
Speaker
And again, it's not an issue of being perfect from that point forward, but it's definitely the day that the mission was set in my heart to lead people closer to Jesus.
00:41:51
Speaker
My parents always told us that they gave us names to live up to.
00:41:55
Speaker
And the first passage that you see with Andrew is him running along the beach.
00:42:01
Speaker
and going to find Peter and saying, we found the Messiah.
00:42:05
Speaker
And so that is really, in a nutshell, my desire, as I do speaking for him, is to let people know we found the Messiah, and he loves you, and he wants to have a close, intimate relationship with you.
00:42:20
Speaker
I still struggle.
00:42:21
Speaker
I still have bad days.
00:42:24
Speaker
Particularly, it's been a struggle for me being 44 and being still single.
00:42:33
Speaker
I kind of half joke about it, but I'm also serious that I kind of thought that by this point I would have a minivan with at least, you know, two booster seats and a car seat in the back and a wife that I could share my ministry with.
00:42:49
Speaker
I'm still praying for her.
00:42:50
Speaker
I know that she's out there somewhere.
00:42:54
Speaker
But so I still struggle with that because I
00:42:57
Speaker
I see other people having successful relationships and I know it's not easy.
00:43:04
Speaker
I know that there's a lot of struggles in relationships.
00:43:06
Speaker
I know that relationships sometimes end and end horribly, but I also believe that God intended for marriage to be a picture of Christ and his church.
00:43:19
Speaker
And I am trying to encourage as many married couples as I can to,
00:43:25
Speaker
well, I'm single to continue to maintain that goal, to realize that they made a commitment to each other, but more so to God.
00:43:33
Speaker
And, and I take that very seriously, especially when I go to a wedding because, because for instance, in your case, I was there when you made your commitment to your wife.
00:43:44
Speaker
So if I notice anything going on, I probably won't be afraid to call you on it.
00:43:51
Speaker
And, and I won't, I will always do it in love.
00:43:55
Speaker
But I am not afraid to say tough things.
00:43:59
Speaker
And I always hope that I have friends that aren't afraid to say tough things back.
00:44:04
Speaker
So that, that's my story.
00:44:06
Speaker
You know, God has been faithful.
00:44:09
Speaker
Um, there are still days when I struggle.
00:44:11
Speaker
I was actually texting your wife the other day and I told her that I have a little bit of struggle with the seasons changing because I thrive in the summer because you don't have to move around very much to stay warm in the summer.
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:25
Speaker
But then the late fall and the winter comes in and it can be a real struggle for me to stay warm and to stay not depressed.
00:44:33
Speaker
But I know that after winter comes spring.
00:44:37
Speaker
So I look forward to that every year.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:41
Speaker
Awesome.
00:44:41
Speaker
That's beautiful.
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:44
Speaker
You're just the way you've...
00:44:49
Speaker
what's the word?
00:44:50
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:50
Speaker
Tackled the struggle, I suppose.
00:44:52
Speaker
Just the way you still do life and the way that you've continued to live out a calling that God has for you and made space to do the things that you're passionate about, including theater and in what you've built with the podcast and was speaking for him is just, I think, so beautiful to see and inspiring to see.
00:45:14
Speaker
And I just...
00:45:17
Speaker
love to see that you're able to so successfully live an abundant life.
00:45:24
Speaker
Like Christ says he, he desired for us to live even in the wake of you're in a wheelchair and there's, there's things that others can do that you're not physically able to do.
00:45:36
Speaker
But I feel like you still have fulfilled, like you're, I think is still a picture of that abundant life that Christ has.
00:45:46
Speaker
calls and says, this is what I want for you.
00:45:49
Speaker
And, and a picture of somebody who does chase down that calling that God put on them and, and owns it and does it.
00:45:57
Speaker
And so that's just really inspiring to me and really beautiful.
00:46:01
Speaker
So I'm glad that you're doing what you're doing and keep it up, man.
00:46:04
Speaker
Cause it's awesome.
00:46:06
Speaker
Well, I appreciate that.
00:46:08
Speaker
I've seen articles, I think particularly from secular people in wheelchairs that say that it annoys them when people say that they're inspiring because they're just out there living life.
00:46:21
Speaker
And I can see that from a certain perspective.
00:46:25
Speaker
Um, cause every once in a while somebody will be like, well, it's good to see you out.
00:46:28
Speaker
And I'm like, just at the grocery store or just at the bookstore.
00:46:32
Speaker
Like it's not, not this monumental thing, but I kind of just chuckle.
00:46:36
Speaker
I'm book shopping.
00:46:36
Speaker
Cause I'm just like, well, are you here because you like books?
00:46:41
Speaker
Cause that's why I'm here.
00:46:44
Speaker
No, Andrew, I go to the bookstore to inspire people.
00:46:51
Speaker
There have been a few of those moments, but you know, that's another thing that I'm kind of unfolding on YouTube.
00:46:57
Speaker
Actually, I've started to do YouTube videos on the Fridays that I don't have a sermon to post.
00:47:06
Speaker
And I'm talking about walking through disability.
00:47:09
Speaker
The newest video that I just posted yesterday on my speaking for him YouTube channel is about parking and the adventures that I've had there.
00:47:20
Speaker
which is something that a lot of people probably don't consider.
00:47:22
Speaker
But I've had some really interesting experiences trying to find a decent parking spot, especially after I got my latest vehicle because the ramp is really, really long.
00:47:34
Speaker
Oh, yikes.
00:47:36
Speaker
And then you've got like the ones that have like the little narrow handicap section.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:42
Speaker
As a matter of fact, we, we usually try to get to master arts plays, for example, really early.
00:47:48
Speaker
Cause there's really only like one space in the winter that I can use when it's nice weather.
00:47:55
Speaker
I can park in the back of the parking lot and it doesn't bother me.
00:47:58
Speaker
But when it's winter, you have to get close.
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:48:03
Speaker
Awesome.
00:48:04
Speaker
Well, this has been lovely.
00:48:05
Speaker
We're getting close to wrapping up here, so I'm going to ask you our final question.
00:48:10
Speaker
What resources would you recommend to people who are wanting to grow in their faith or grow as artists or grow as both of those together?
00:48:21
Speaker
Well, I think I would definitely recommend just...
00:48:29
Speaker
going to like sermon.net and listening to sermons there of a variety of different people.
00:48:40
Speaker
Also, I'm trying to think of what the other one is called, but there's several different places where you can listen to sermons.
00:48:50
Speaker
And I really like the fact that you can do that at any time of the day or night.
00:48:57
Speaker
it's never been easier to grow your Christian faith that way.
00:49:02
Speaker
I think that C.S.
00:49:03
Speaker
Lewis is a really...
00:49:06
Speaker
inspiring guy and I really like his material.
00:49:10
Speaker
I had the opportunity to go see a one act, uh, play of his, um, further out and further in, uh, this past summer at the DeVos place.
00:49:22
Speaker
And it was really well done.
00:49:23
Speaker
Max McLean does these one, one act, uh, one person shows where he plays CS Lewis.
00:49:31
Speaker
And there's a lot of richness in, in CS Lewis.
00:49:34
Speaker
Um,
00:49:36
Speaker
And I really appreciate him.
00:49:40
Speaker
I appreciate Charles Spurgeon.
00:49:45
Speaker
He's a good person to look up as far as growing your faith.
00:49:52
Speaker
As far as acting resources, I don't really have a whole lot on that scale.
00:49:57
Speaker
But I will say that the play John His Story by Jeanette Cliff George is
00:50:04
Speaker
is one of my favorites and I've seen it a couple of times at master arts and it's always very powerful.
00:50:12
Speaker
Again, it's telling the stories from the Bible, from a fresh perspective, usually from the audience perspective of what they're going through when they are observing the things that Jesus did.
00:50:27
Speaker
And I just think that's, that's a really powerful thing.
00:50:30
Speaker
I really like,
00:50:34
Speaker
If you want something fun, but also to challenge your faith, I would say that if you look up the Wally Show podcast, Wally is a morning show host out of Nashville, Tennessee.
00:50:47
Speaker
And he is very funny, but they also have serious conversations about faith issues.
00:50:57
Speaker
And they also really try to help people walk through difficult things.
00:51:02
Speaker
So I really like that.
00:51:03
Speaker
podcast and I do periodically do podcast episodes about my favorite podcast so that's another topic that you can look up when you are looking through my podcasts and I will say that on my audio storage site you can pull down the sort options and find the series list and you'll find a bunch of series there and one of them
00:51:32
Speaker
is my Good Friday shows.
00:51:34
Speaker
So you can just go right to those and hear John and many other friends bringing Good Friday to life.
00:51:41
Speaker
So I haven't really read a whole lot of books about acting or art, but maybe I should read more.
00:51:49
Speaker
I need to get on your resources page.
00:51:51
Speaker
There we go.
00:51:52
Speaker
So I can have a recommendation next time.
00:51:55
Speaker
There we go.
00:51:56
Speaker
Awesome.
00:51:57
Speaker
Andrew, this has been super great.
00:51:58
Speaker
If people want to find out more about you or your podcast, where should they go?
00:52:04
Speaker
The best place to go is my website, speakingforhim.com.
00:52:10
Speaker
That's speakingthenumberforhim.com.
00:52:13
Speaker
You can go to my YouTube channel at speakingthenumberforhim on YouTube.
00:52:21
Speaker
And please subscribe.
00:52:23
Speaker
As I said, I'll probably be posting videos two or three times a month.
00:52:29
Speaker
And I really want to grow that subscriber base.
00:52:32
Speaker
So give it a watch.
00:52:34
Speaker
And I always appreciate feedback too.
00:52:37
Speaker
This is something that as a podcaster and as a content creator, I don't get a whole lot of feedback.
00:52:44
Speaker
But I really, I know people are listening.
00:52:46
Speaker
So if you are listening, don't be afraid to actually give some feedback.
00:52:50
Speaker
I'm sure John feels the same way.
00:52:52
Speaker
Yep.
00:52:56
Speaker
Awesome.
00:52:56
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for coming on, Andrew.
00:52:58
Speaker
This has just been a lovely discussion.
00:53:00
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:53:01
Speaker
I appreciate it, John.
00:53:03
Speaker
I am always up to be on the podcast.
00:53:05
Speaker
That's for sure.