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Simplicity, Humility, and Presence as Christian Artists
59 Plays9 months ago
In this episode Jon and Nate discuss the value of simplicity in our faith and art, and how that intersects with humility and being present with God and with those around us.
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and Format Change
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm John, the host.
00:00:06
Speaker
I'm Nate, the co-host.
00:00:07
Speaker
He is.
00:00:08
Speaker
I just went into my script there and I was like, that's not correct anymore.
00:00:11
Speaker
I have a co-host now.
00:00:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hopefully you're used to him by now because you'll have had three episodes.
00:00:17
Speaker
Our last episode is more serious because we had somebody else on.
00:00:21
Speaker
That's how that goes.
00:00:22
Speaker
Good to behave.
00:00:23
Speaker
Get ready for shenanigans.
00:00:24
Speaker
We just talked for 20 minutes about randomness that's going to be tacked on at the end of the episode.
Bonus Content Discussion
00:00:30
Speaker
Bonus content.
00:00:33
Speaker
It's mostly me rambling about a video game, but we thought it was funny.
00:00:40
Speaker
If people really like us, they might listen.
00:00:43
Speaker
Listen, if you really like us, we know who the true fans are slash friends who listen.
00:00:51
Speaker
France.
00:00:53
Speaker
France!
00:00:54
Speaker
We're back!
00:00:55
Speaker
We talked about France on the video game section!
00:00:57
Speaker
It's coming full circle!
Simplicity in Art
00:01:00
Speaker
What we're actually going to talk about today is simplicity in art.
00:01:05
Speaker
So Nate's proposal was that we say one word every 30 seconds to really simplify.
00:01:10
Speaker
Dude, I thought that.
00:01:13
Speaker
That's how synced up we are.
00:01:17
Speaker
Oh, I broke it.
00:01:20
Speaker
R. There we go.
00:01:25
Speaker
You're like, come on, John, work with me.
00:01:27
Speaker
In the bonus content, they can listen to us singing Holy, Holy Denmark.
00:01:34
Speaker
We sounded nice.
00:01:35
Speaker
We did.
00:01:35
Speaker
We said some of the same words.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:38
Speaker
I think it was good.
00:01:39
Speaker
That's our new hymn is Holy, Holy Denmark.
00:01:43
Speaker
I don't need to get onto this.
00:01:44
Speaker
Nope.
00:01:44
Speaker
Here we go.
00:01:44
Speaker
We're into the real podcast.
00:01:46
Speaker
Serious stuff now.
Analysis of Modern Fantasy Storytelling
00:01:48
Speaker
So...
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, this topic came up because I was watching a YouTube video about fantasy storytelling.
00:02:00
Speaker
And it was about how modern fantasy isn't as good as classic fantasy.
00:02:06
Speaker
And it was specifically analyzing Star Wars The Last Jedi and The Rings of Power.
00:02:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:14
Speaker
And talking about how those don't seem to be capturing the essence of the original things that they are mirroring.
00:02:23
Speaker
You can agree or disagree.
00:02:24
Speaker
I happen to like both of those things, which is a highly controversial opinion.
00:02:29
Speaker
You like one of them.
00:02:31
Speaker
I don't know if you like The Last Jedi.
00:02:33
Speaker
Is The Last Jedi Episode 8?
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:37
Speaker
There's parts of it I don't like, but overall I think I like it.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
I watched it and I liked it.
00:02:45
Speaker
And then the more I thought about it, I was like, wait, this wasn't good.
00:02:51
Speaker
I think there's one of the plot lines that's good.
00:02:57
Speaker
which features the protagonist.
00:02:59
Speaker
So I think that's maybe
Inspirations from Tolkien
00:03:00
Speaker
why I like it.
00:03:00
Speaker
Sure.
00:03:01
Speaker
Cause that's what sticks out as I'm like, what's the story of last Jedi?
00:03:04
Speaker
It's this, but then there's another like 45 minutes of it that I'm like, Oh, there's that part.
00:03:08
Speaker
And it's not as good.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
Um, but I really liked that other like hour or hour and 15.
00:03:16
Speaker
Why are those bad, though, according to this YouTuber?
00:03:21
Speaker
So he was saying fantasy is inherently an elevated genre, and they are trying to make it realistic.
00:03:29
Speaker
And thus making it too complex, which I thought was an interesting take that I don't know that I agreed with, but it did make me think, because I'm writing my own fantasy series.
00:03:40
Speaker
And I am very heavily...
00:03:45
Speaker
inspired in my artistic work by Tolkien and what he crafted there and really the work of all his contemporaries and just that sort of vibe.
00:03:56
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So I care about if and how I'm emulating that, I suppose.
00:04:02
Speaker
And so I was like thinking about it.
00:04:03
Speaker
And so he was like, Lord of the Rings...
00:04:07
Speaker
has like these almost archetypal characters.
00:04:12
Speaker
Right.
00:04:13
Speaker
With less moral ambiguity.
00:04:16
Speaker
And he's like, when they're trying to make it realistic, they're trying to add all these complex layers to these characters and things that don't fit with this genre.
00:04:27
Speaker
I don't know that I agree with that.
00:04:31
Speaker
100%, but I also agree to a degree.
00:04:34
Speaker
Because I was thinking about... Sorry, I'm picking up my lip.
00:04:39
Speaker
There's... Two of my favorite fictional characters are what are called flat characters who don't really go on an arc and just kind of are, which is Captain America and Aragorn.
00:04:51
Speaker
Aragorn goes through an arc in the movies, but not as much one in
Flat Characters in Literature
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Speaker
the books.
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He's just like, yep, I'm the king.
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Speaker
I'm here with my sword that says I'm the king.
00:05:00
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And I'm going to... Read the sword.
00:05:03
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Read the sword and see the Christ-like imagery that is maybe not intended to be on me.
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I have a beard.
00:05:08
Speaker
I have a beard.
00:05:10
Speaker
I'm going to lead some ghosts.
00:05:11
Speaker
Piercing eyes.
00:05:13
Speaker
Piercing eyes.
00:05:15
Speaker
Ooh.
00:05:15
Speaker
Oh, he took many captive.
00:05:18
Speaker
What's the passage?
00:05:20
Speaker
Set the captives free.
00:05:22
Speaker
That's another one.
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:26
Speaker
I think I was thinking of a different one.
00:05:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:28
Speaker
But no, that's... Comment the passage down below.
00:05:31
Speaker
No, yeah, I hadn't thought of that parallel.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:34
Speaker
So... Descended into Hades.
00:05:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:05:37
Speaker
Wow.
00:05:38
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:05:39
Speaker
That whole, like, chapter where he's, like, leading the army of the dead to Minas Tirith, I'm just like... And everybody's like, whoa, it's the king.
00:05:46
Speaker
And he's terrifying, but also amazing.
00:05:48
Speaker
I'm like, this is just...
00:05:49
Speaker
I don't know if you meant for this to be Jesus Tolkien, but it does feel pretty Jesus-y.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker
Wow.
00:05:55
Speaker
That's cool.
00:05:56
Speaker
But so Aragorn and Captain America are both basically flat characters.
00:06:01
Speaker
They don't change.
00:06:02
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I think they go through things and I think they're challenged, but they don't really change.
00:06:06
Speaker
They don't like everything that happens to them.
00:06:08
Speaker
They don't.
00:06:09
Speaker
They're not like, yay.
00:06:11
Speaker
But they are just like...
Do Flat People Exist in Real Life?
00:06:13
Speaker
Who is Aragorn?
00:06:14
Speaker
Well, he's the king of Gondor and he's a ranger, which means he's great at everything.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker
But he's also sensitive, but he's also strong.
00:06:23
Speaker
And who's Captain America?
00:06:24
Speaker
Well, he doesn't like bullies and he's basically perfect.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:32
Speaker
And they're just like, but somehow it works.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:37
Speaker
That is interesting.
00:06:38
Speaker
It got me reflecting on that.
00:06:40
Speaker
Do you know any flat people that you really like?
00:06:47
Speaker
I don't know if I believe there are flat people.
00:06:52
Speaker
Well, I have a drawing here for you.
00:06:54
Speaker
Oh!
00:06:57
Speaker
Oh, he's in two dimensions!
00:07:00
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Believe!
00:07:02
Speaker
Unless I see the granite markings in his hands.
00:07:12
Speaker
Unless I see the lack of shading below his forearm.
00:07:18
Speaker
And see the strange proportions in his nose and face.
00:07:21
Speaker
I will not believe.
00:07:24
Speaker
No flat people, though.
00:07:25
Speaker
There's less dramatic people than others.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it.
00:07:33
Speaker
I think there's less dramatic people than others, but I don't think there's less flat.
00:07:36
Speaker
There's people who are steady.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yes, but I think they still have...
00:07:43
Speaker
things that they're wrestling with they're just maybe not as a parent they don't tell us about them in a different way yeah yeah um which isn't well no that is kind of the same as flat characters because a lot of times if you're doing storytelling we're just going to zoom in on storytelling for a little bit and then we can zoom out but uh the way to write a flat character generally is considered to be
00:08:08
Speaker
the world around them tries, like, challenges them
Flat Characters Facing External Pressures
00:08:12
Speaker
to try and make them change.
00:08:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:14
Speaker
Cap is a really, really good example of that because his first movie just establishes who he is.
00:08:20
Speaker
And that's it, basically.
00:08:22
Speaker
And he has to fight Nazis.
00:08:24
Speaker
It's simple.
00:08:25
Speaker
It is simple.
00:08:26
Speaker
And then his second movie, it's like, okay, he's Captain America, so, of course, he's working with America.
00:08:32
Speaker
But it's a very different America, and it's all full of spies.
00:08:35
Speaker
It also has Nazis.
00:08:37
Speaker
It also has Nazis in there.
00:08:39
Speaker
So he's like, I don't know if I like working with Nazis if they have my name.
00:08:44
Speaker
But he's challenged on every level.
00:08:46
Speaker
He has to go rogue.
00:08:47
Speaker
He has to fight his best friend.
00:08:49
Speaker
But he can do that all day.
00:08:51
Speaker
He can do that all day.
00:08:52
Speaker
But he has to question...
00:08:57
Speaker
If if his like code still works and that question is raised and he says yes my code of ethics does still work it just maybe doesn't map on to onto you guys right it doesn't map on to the country the same way I thought it did or this organization or agency the same way I thought it did.
00:09:16
Speaker
in the world of the story.
00:09:18
Speaker
And so he's like, okay, I'm, I, and he ultimately does stay true to who he is.
00:09:23
Speaker
And then Civil War takes it another level where it's like, okay, what if your found family is going to put pressure on you?
00:09:28
Speaker
It's like, oh shoot.
00:09:29
Speaker
Well, now my found family wants me to change my code of ethics.
00:09:32
Speaker
I'm going to stay true to my code of ethics again.
00:09:36
Speaker
And so it just continually puts the pressure on.
00:09:38
Speaker
And so that's kind of what you would do with a flat arc.
00:09:41
Speaker
So in theory, I guess there, see, but I don't,
00:09:46
Speaker
I don't know if I believe that people don't change when they're under pressure.
00:09:51
Speaker
Hmm.
00:09:54
Speaker
Not necessarily.
00:09:55
Speaker
That they cave.
00:09:57
Speaker
Right.
00:09:57
Speaker
They can get more resolute.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:00
Speaker
And like the way they handle situations might shift a little bit.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:06
Speaker
But not in like motive, but in like tactic, you know?
00:10:10
Speaker
Sure.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
For example, I went through a lot in 2024, which has made me a bit bolder, I think.
00:10:18
Speaker
But I don't know that my values around things have changed in 2024.
00:10:25
Speaker
But I think I am bolder in how I'm navigating situations and in talking to people about different things.
00:10:32
Speaker
That's really cool.
00:10:34
Speaker
It's been cool.
00:10:35
Speaker
But does that make sense?
00:10:39
Speaker
On flat people?
00:10:40
Speaker
Do you disagree or do you agree?
00:10:42
Speaker
I think I agree.
00:10:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:47
Speaker
I think people can stay true and stay the course.
00:10:53
Speaker
It doesn't mean they're any less people for not having less fluctuating and it doesn't mean they have...
00:11:01
Speaker
like, like their relationship with God is any less real.
00:11:07
Speaker
Um, but I think there's people just that are just doing their thing faithfully.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:17
Speaker
And so there's part of that where I'm like, well, flat characters aren't necessarily inherently, I think flat characters are more complicated to write actually than, um,
00:11:28
Speaker
complex characters.
00:11:29
Speaker
So from a creating art standpoint, I don't think it's simpler.
00:11:35
Speaker
Because you have to do it well.
00:11:36
Speaker
That's why people think that Superman is boring is just because there haven't been
00:11:41
Speaker
many stories in the public, like widespread public view that have challenged him in an interesting way.
00:11:49
Speaker
Because he's like the ultimate flat character where he's like, I almost always have a perfect morality unless you're destroying everything about Superman as a character.
00:11:57
Speaker
His morality is generally pretty fixed.
Complexity vs. Simplicity in Art
00:12:00
Speaker
He can like have questions about things, but he's pretty like he's always going to do the right thing.
00:12:04
Speaker
And he's also invincible and super strong and can do everything because he was the first superhero.
00:12:10
Speaker
And he's a Jesus character.
00:12:11
Speaker
And so is Jesus actually, is he a flat character?
00:12:15
Speaker
Is Jesus a flat character?
00:12:17
Speaker
Well, he doesn't, by definition, yes.
00:12:19
Speaker
Because if you're looking at it in fictional terms, he does not go on an arc of change.
00:12:25
Speaker
He does not change.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:28
Speaker
Or grow, he is challenged and pressures put on him.
00:12:31
Speaker
Or the growing happens.
00:12:34
Speaker
Well, Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, but we don't really see that part.
00:12:37
Speaker
That happened off screen.
00:12:38
Speaker
That was off screen.
00:12:41
Speaker
So I guess maybe he wasn't a flat character.
00:12:43
Speaker
I mean, that's a big theological debate of...
00:12:47
Speaker
uh how did he grow up how did he grow in wisdom did he did he do a stupid thing and then have to learn from it or was he always perfect in that regard that's kind of a big theological debate um of like the humanity and divinity back and forth of jesus right which probably gets into the weeds but um
00:13:08
Speaker
But I think a lot of times those flat characters are things, and this was something the video said and I agree with, are things we either strive towards or strive away from.
00:13:20
Speaker
So, like, we've got Captain America is a character that is very inspirational to me, and I strive towards that kind of living.
00:13:29
Speaker
And Voldemort is a flat, evil guy that people are going to be like, I don't really want to put my soul into a thousand different objects and kill people.
00:13:37
Speaker
That was exaggerating.
00:13:39
Speaker
Oh, that's true.
00:13:40
Speaker
Seven different objects.
00:13:41
Speaker
There you go.
00:13:41
Speaker
Thank you.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:47
Speaker
And so in that way, Jesus also fits into that quite well, I guess, because he should be the ultimate thing we're striving towards.
00:13:56
Speaker
But he's also, he's probably the only flat character in the Bible.
00:14:00
Speaker
I mean, unless you're going to parse the Trinity into different characters.
00:14:03
Speaker
Right.
00:14:05
Speaker
I mean, yeah, probably technically, but like maybe narratively wise, are there like Daniel?
00:14:15
Speaker
Daniel?
00:14:19
Speaker
Oh, maybe Daniel is a flat character.
00:14:22
Speaker
Does Daniel make a mistake ever?
00:14:24
Speaker
I don't think he does.
00:14:25
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:14:26
Speaker
You've squashed my point.
00:14:28
Speaker
Well done.
00:14:28
Speaker
Thanks, buddy.
00:14:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker
Nope.
00:14:32
Speaker
I think Daniel's pretty solid.
00:14:33
Speaker
I guess Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, too, then.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah, they're just in one story, though.
00:14:37
Speaker
Two stories.
00:14:38
Speaker
That's true.
00:14:38
Speaker
That's true.
00:14:42
Speaker
But they're fewer in the Bible.
00:14:45
Speaker
I feel like the Bible almost always is like, here's this really great dude.
00:14:49
Speaker
They did a really messed up thing.
00:14:56
Speaker
But yes, so yeah, I don't know.
00:15:00
Speaker
It was just interesting to me because when I think about art, when I'm creating,
00:15:05
Speaker
I feel like I'm always trying to delve down a layer into complexity and realism.
00:15:10
Speaker
And I'm always trying to see what's underneath this layer and what's underneath this layer.
00:15:16
Speaker
And in writing my own fantasy story, like I'm trying to, it's really all about redemption, which means I'm trying to make it very complex because...
00:15:27
Speaker
we can go incredibly far into the depths of depravity and still be redeemed, you know?
00:15:36
Speaker
Um, and so I, there's a lot of sort of complex psychological things happening there to those characters and their growth to the point where they need to be redeemed from something and then they get to that point of redemption.
00:15:52
Speaker
But then I'm like, is that, is that less inspirational to people?
00:15:58
Speaker
Like ironically.
00:15:59
Speaker
Right, because you would think in creating something that's more complex and makes people relate to it more, that that would be inspirational.
00:16:09
Speaker
You know, if I can see somebody fall and get back up and see how God can redeem us, I feel like I should be really highly inspired by that.
00:16:19
Speaker
But I don't think that that kind of story is ever going to hit me the same way that Aragorn or Captain America do.
00:16:24
Speaker
In the sense of just a simple sort of paragon.
00:16:28
Speaker
Right.
00:16:30
Speaker
Probably the answer is that a mix is nice when it comes to characters that we're looking at that we have that we can identify with the ups and the downs and see the lessons learned from that because we're an up and down, but also the aspirational is inspiring as well.
00:16:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:50
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:16:52
Speaker
And then finding what fits best with which story.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, or having characters of both.
00:16:59
Speaker
Or yeah, both in the same story.
00:17:01
Speaker
Which has been something I've been thinking about too of like, well now I'm just talking about my own book.
00:17:06
Speaker
But can there be like examples of what these characters could be that they're falling short of and could be restored to that point later on?
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
I feel like I interrupted something you were about to say.
00:17:17
Speaker
No.
00:17:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:18
Speaker
If I did, I forgot.
00:17:20
Speaker
Well, I'm just that good.
00:17:22
Speaker
I make him forget he even wanted to say something.
00:17:24
Speaker
I don't even want it.
00:17:25
Speaker
I never want to talk.
00:17:27
Speaker
I don't want to listen to what you say.
00:17:31
Speaker
Are there some examples of simplistic art that you can think of that have been really meaningful for you or really great or stuck out?
Artistic Style: Dr. Seuss's Simplicity
00:17:40
Speaker
Dr. Seuss.
00:17:42
Speaker
Oh, that's a great one.
00:17:44
Speaker
Thank you.
00:17:45
Speaker
Why?
00:17:47
Speaker
Well, let's start with what I thought of and I'll see if my thoughts keep going.
00:17:50
Speaker
But the art for one thing is in a way very, can be very complex with the character design.
00:17:58
Speaker
But also you'll notice in some Dr. Seuss books, it's very colorful.
00:18:06
Speaker
And in some Dr. Seuss books, you think it's very colorful, but it's actually not.
00:18:11
Speaker
But it's like say Horton for instance or Cat in the Hat.
00:18:17
Speaker
There's usually in books like that only a few colors going on per page like two or maybe three.
00:18:25
Speaker
And they do different shades of the color but there's also a lot of white.
00:18:30
Speaker
The whole page isn't flooded with color but they put color in certain spaces and it's not even always a super vibrant color.
00:18:42
Speaker
And yet, you know, Dr. Seuss is portrayed as a super colorful figure in art.
00:18:51
Speaker
And some of his stuff was very colorful, did the full flood.
00:18:54
Speaker
And his fine art that he did was very colorful.
00:19:01
Speaker
But there's something about those books, I think...
00:19:05
Speaker
I'd be willing to say that I think his most successful and famous books were pretty low in color palette.
00:19:14
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:19:15
Speaker
I was watching another YouTube video.
00:19:17
Speaker
I'm just going to reveal how much time I spend watching video essays on this episode.
00:19:22
Speaker
But I was watching one that was like talking about...
00:19:25
Speaker
A lot of movies today are like, we have to be colorful and pop.
00:19:28
Speaker
And it's like almost oversaturation and looks ugly now, even though they've been trying to.
00:19:33
Speaker
And they're like, well, where did all this start?
00:19:34
Speaker
We think it started from Guardians of the Galaxy.
00:19:37
Speaker
Oh.
00:19:38
Speaker
And they were like, because Guardians of the Galaxy is super colorful, right?
00:19:41
Speaker
And it's similarly not.
00:19:44
Speaker
It just uses color in moments that make that color pop and make it feel colorful.
00:19:49
Speaker
Oh, is that right?
00:19:50
Speaker
But it's actually a more simple color palette of like, we've got some like browns and grays and blacks, and then they're all in yellow jumpsuits.
00:20:00
Speaker
Right.
00:20:00
Speaker
And her skin is green.
00:20:02
Speaker
Right.
00:20:02
Speaker
And so that pops.
00:20:03
Speaker
So they're like, they use it very deliberately, but it's not as...
00:20:10
Speaker
overly saturated with color as you'd think, but then people are trying to mirror that and are just getting way overboard because the key is focus where, where, how is focus being brought?
00:20:22
Speaker
And I think that's, I can be a benefit of simple art is that you're not being distracted everywhere, but your eye is being joined to write into the thing that is important, which can be done.
00:20:33
Speaker
I think in any of the forms.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker
Um,
00:20:37
Speaker
I'll talk about it a little bit later, but Come From Away, my wife and I just saw in Toronto.
00:20:43
Speaker
And that was just like a cast in a very simple set.
00:20:47
Speaker
And it's a pretty sprawling story it's telling, but it's just like...
00:20:53
Speaker
10 people, eight or 10 people, a company of like eight or 10 playing several different characters, but it just locks you in.
00:21:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:01
Speaker
And it's just so simple.
00:21:02
Speaker
Like a black box can do that too.
00:21:04
Speaker
No, I think this is a lesson I need to learn as a graphic designer.
00:21:09
Speaker
Cause I,
00:21:10
Speaker
my intuition can be that to do a good job, I'm going to fill this base on the canvas with as much, um, intentionality and design essentially as meant not necessarily as I can, but you know, um, when a lot of really excellent design, I see, um,
00:21:36
Speaker
leaves like, you know, just a simple white background with its solid layout kind of thing.
00:21:41
Speaker
And I need to be humble enough and willing to do that myself.
00:21:47
Speaker
Um, I think it's also scary too, because I feel like you have to really trust it.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:53
Speaker
Like you have to trust whatever the simple thing is that you're putting out there is enough.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:59
Speaker
I think that's,
00:22:02
Speaker
in general, hard for me in life to, to believe that the simple thing that I'm putting out there is enough.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:10
Speaker
Um, I think that I'm actually doing it in the book that I'm illustrating right now.
Illustrating with Minimalism
00:22:19
Speaker
The, the scenery is, is very simple.
00:22:21
Speaker
There's actually like hardly any trees.
00:22:24
Speaker
It's just like kind of rolling Hills and some water often.
00:22:28
Speaker
And then like the pop of color is like the main thing.
00:22:31
Speaker
character yeah and i've wondered if i'm like ah this is my first book i'm illustrating and am i doing enough to make it like a good illustration by like filling out this part with like better landscape and trees but i think i think it can exist in this space in this fantasy world and that it's it's it's pretty in its simplicity i think i agree
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like we were talking about that with, like, the grass or something.
00:22:56
Speaker
I don't remember if I said that.
00:22:59
Speaker
There was something where we were like, I, like, liked the color of it.
00:23:02
Speaker
And you were like, yeah, looking at this color by itself, you would think it would be weird here.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
But, yeah, but then it does draw our focus, but then you also have to trust, like, okay, is what I've done here in the important part, like, enough?
00:23:17
Speaker
Right.
00:23:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:19
Speaker
Which I feel like translates to everything in the arts.
00:23:23
Speaker
But it's intimidating.
00:23:24
Speaker
Because you're like, oh, I don't have a great magnum opus where they can look and find details that are spectacular.
00:23:33
Speaker
I just have to kind of trust that it's enough.
00:23:38
Speaker
Just let it be.
00:23:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:45
Speaker
Interesting.
00:23:46
Speaker
I feel like we're both learning a similar lesson.
00:23:50
Speaker
No, this has been a lesson, a big lesson of my life and continues to be.
00:23:54
Speaker
Where in your life are you learning that?
00:23:56
Speaker
I think in my acting.
00:23:57
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:24:02
Speaker
I don't know.
00:24:02
Speaker
Like, as we're talking, I'm thinking back to Hamlet.
00:24:08
Speaker
Who, to be fair, Shakespeare does... Take a drink, everyone.
00:24:10
Speaker
Take a drink.
00:24:15
Speaker
No, I'm fine with you mentioning Hamlet.
00:24:16
Speaker
It's just... I know.
00:24:18
Speaker
I do say it a lot.
00:24:20
Speaker
No, it's a lot there.
00:24:20
Speaker
It's like Hamlet, liturgy.
00:24:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
What would it be?
00:24:25
Speaker
I feel like I need one more.
00:24:26
Speaker
Hamlet and liturgy and rhythm.
00:24:31
Speaker
I feel like I talk about rhythm a lot.
00:24:32
Speaker
I do?
00:24:33
Speaker
Like rhythms of life.
00:24:34
Speaker
I feel like I do.
00:24:35
Speaker
Oh, maybe.
00:24:36
Speaker
I think about it inwardly at least.
00:24:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:40
Speaker
If there is a quote from you, it would be, I'm having an abstract thought.
00:24:43
Speaker
That is true.
00:24:45
Speaker
Podcasts don't lend themselves well to abstract thoughts, though, because they can't just sit there while I silently pull the thought from the back.
00:24:51
Speaker
I have to just talk while it happens.
00:24:52
Speaker
You have to stall.
00:24:53
Speaker
I just, like, hit his knee terrifiedly.
00:24:56
Speaker
I'm like, Nate, Nate, Nate, stall.
00:24:59
Speaker
Stall for me.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
Hamlet, yes.
00:25:04
Speaker
Like I'm thinking back to Hamlet and I'm like, oh, I had so much in that character.
00:25:08
Speaker
Nobody probably saw half of it and it would be a lot more important for me to just show up on stage and just be available.
00:25:16
Speaker
Just be emotionally available and just let stuff happen.
00:25:19
Speaker
Without thinking about all this great stuff you produce inwardly.
00:25:22
Speaker
And I think that stuff still matters.
00:25:24
Speaker
Like, I don't think we should not do the background work as actors.
00:25:28
Speaker
Like, I think we need to know all that stuff.
00:25:31
Speaker
But then I also think we need to let it go.
00:25:32
Speaker
Right.
00:25:34
Speaker
Which I think I'm learning.
00:25:35
Speaker
I think the class helped.
00:25:37
Speaker
I think, uh, and I, I heard John Rhys-Davies say that in like talking about his part and that's what he does for acting.
Acting: Being Present vs. Overthinking
00:25:46
Speaker
He does all the background work and then just kind of lets it go.
00:25:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, because the important thing is the other person.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
The important thing is the other person.
00:25:59
Speaker
That's true in life, too.
00:26:02
Speaker
Because I think even in acting, you're like thinking about like, how am I doing right now?
00:26:07
Speaker
Like constantly for me.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yep.
00:26:09
Speaker
And it can be that way in life too.
00:26:12
Speaker
Like, how am I doing in my interaction with this person?
00:26:14
Speaker
Am I serving them well?
00:26:16
Speaker
And, and how, how am I looking and such like that?
00:26:21
Speaker
I'm hungry.
00:26:22
Speaker
What am I making for dinner?
00:26:27
Speaker
What am I eating after dinner?
00:26:29
Speaker
Could I steal that Camaro?
00:26:32
Speaker
I probably could.
00:26:34
Speaker
No, I feel like simplicity and presence maybe go together.
00:26:39
Speaker
Simplicity doesn't work well if you're not there and aware and intentional.
00:26:48
Speaker
But...
00:26:50
Speaker
Because it's a single focus.
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
But it also, I think simplicity helps you to be present.
00:26:55
Speaker
Like I've been thinking the last couple of days about just like, I feel like I can be a fairly obsessive person sometimes.
00:27:02
Speaker
Like I feel like I can lock into a thought or lock into an activity, like setting up this studio.
00:27:08
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker
If you're listening.
00:27:12
Speaker
Why?
00:27:12
Speaker
No, turn us off.
00:27:15
Speaker
This is horrible.
00:27:16
Speaker
We set up a new studio in the corner.
00:27:19
Speaker
It was John, but he messaged me about it.
00:27:21
Speaker
That's true.
00:27:21
Speaker
Nate helped.
00:27:23
Speaker
I guess this is our break to explain the studio, and then I'll talk about true spots and stuff.
00:27:30
Speaker
We have art on the walls.
00:27:32
Speaker
So some of it you've seen before.
00:27:33
Speaker
Some of it is new.
00:27:34
Speaker
Like behind Nate is an art piece that I don't think...
00:27:38
Speaker
was ever in view.
00:27:39
Speaker
This was made by my lovely wife and I love it.
00:27:42
Speaker
That one right there, right?
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:43
Speaker
I get to look at it during the podcast.
00:27:45
Speaker
It's really good.
00:27:46
Speaker
I love that piece.
00:27:47
Speaker
She made it when we were in Hunchback.
00:27:50
Speaker
She does.
00:27:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
I love this work that she does.
00:27:52
Speaker
And I think that's one of my favorites.
00:27:53
Speaker
For those who can't see, it's a canvas with a painting with like a starry sky to the left and then fades down with yellows and blues down to a firiness at the bottom and sewn into the painting is Notre Dame.
00:28:10
Speaker
That's really cool.
00:28:11
Speaker
And then we have my favorite droid in Star Wars.
00:28:13
Speaker
Oh, I bumped my mic.
00:28:14
Speaker
We have BD-1 right here to keep us company.
00:28:16
Speaker
Which one is he in again?
00:28:18
Speaker
He's in the video game.
00:28:20
Speaker
Oh, the video game.
00:28:21
Speaker
He's in Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor.
00:28:24
Speaker
He's so cute, Nate.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah?
00:28:26
Speaker
He's so cute.
00:28:27
Speaker
He looks cute.
00:28:28
Speaker
In the side here, he has little health packs, and he'll shoot them to you, and then you can grab him.
00:28:33
Speaker
And he just rides right on your shoulder.
00:28:35
Speaker
Oh, I think you've shown me that.
00:28:36
Speaker
He's just like a little puppy.
00:28:37
Speaker
He's so cute.
00:28:38
Speaker
Is that his size?
00:28:39
Speaker
Basically, yeah.
00:28:40
Speaker
This is basically one-to-one size.
00:28:42
Speaker
You should strap him to your shoulder for Halloween.
00:28:45
Speaker
That would be great.
00:28:45
Speaker
Oh, that would be a great Comic-Con costume.
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
Oh, that would be fun.
00:28:49
Speaker
And he's poseable, so we can do that.
00:28:53
Speaker
We can make him look up.
00:28:54
Speaker
He's inquisitive.
00:28:55
Speaker
Maybe each episode will make him do a different pose.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:59
Speaker
That would be fun.
00:29:00
Speaker
Look out for that, folks.
00:29:01
Speaker
Come back.
00:29:01
Speaker
You want to watch the video so you can see what Pose BD1 is doing.
00:29:06
Speaker
So I was like, how did I get here?
00:29:09
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I can obsess to a thing.
00:29:11
Speaker
And yesterday, I feel like I just latched onto I'm going to make the studio.
00:29:15
Speaker
And then it took over my entire day.
00:29:16
Speaker
And I'm like, what's happening in my brain?
00:29:18
Speaker
And so I'm starting to be like, that's just so complex.
00:29:24
Speaker
And not all of that matters.
00:29:25
Speaker
My brain's going to do a thousand different things.
00:29:29
Speaker
And that doesn't mean that it's reality or that I have to listen to it.
00:29:34
Speaker
I have a luxury that some people don't.
00:29:36
Speaker
I'm not depressed or anxious clinically, so it's not seeping into everything of me, but I can just be like, okay, my brain is doing all of this.
00:29:46
Speaker
I'm just going to be present.
00:29:47
Speaker
I'm not going to worry about the intrusive thoughts, the further layers of complexity and of me trying to investigate this.
00:29:54
Speaker
There's a place for that.
00:29:55
Speaker
They don't own you.
00:29:56
Speaker
You don't owe them.
00:29:57
Speaker
Right.
00:29:57
Speaker
Right.
00:29:59
Speaker
And so maybe this is an interesting idea that, um, does sometimes
00:30:09
Speaker
does either our art or our desire to be great or it could be both because i kind of think art has a life of its own to a degree i don't think it literally does but figuratively it sure does like it feels like the characters in my book just do whatever and i'm like what are you doing this surprises me frequently they'll just do a thing and i'm like well this just changes everything why did what um
00:30:34
Speaker
No, I feel like in my art, too, like, this is how it was meant to be.
00:30:40
Speaker
Right.
00:30:41
Speaker
I'm just kind of trying to make it that way.
00:30:43
Speaker
But I wonder if maybe sometimes there's value to us pulling a tighter leash on our art.
Should Artists Impose Limits?
00:30:50
Speaker
To say, actually, this is all you need to be.
00:30:56
Speaker
Which also is probably putting a leash on our own ego and need for greatness and saying, no, I don't need to write the next Lord of the Rings.
00:31:04
Speaker
This is all this needs to be.
00:31:05
Speaker
Or I don't need to paint the next...
00:31:07
Speaker
I was going to say the Mona Lisa, but I think the Mona Lisa is just fine.
00:31:10
Speaker
I wanted to think of a better, what's a better piece of art?
00:31:13
Speaker
It's just mid.
00:31:14
Speaker
It's just a portrait of a lady.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:18
Speaker
Rembrandt.
00:31:18
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:19
Speaker
The next Rembrandt or the next Sunflowers, you know?
00:31:23
Speaker
You think that's better than Mona Lisa?
00:31:26
Speaker
Ha ha ha ha ha!
00:31:31
Speaker
Sidebar.
00:31:34
Speaker
I think I would.
00:31:35
Speaker
Well, I don't love still lifes, but I like the field of flowers that Van Gogh does.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:39
Speaker
Usually I'm going to like landscapes better than a portrait.
00:31:42
Speaker
Do you like seascapes?
00:31:44
Speaker
Yes.
00:31:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:31:46
Speaker
That's good.
00:31:47
Speaker
No, but that made me think of, I was talking with a coworker last night and was talking about the book that I'm working on illustrating.
00:31:54
Speaker
And she said that she has a friend who is writing a children's book and that my coworker is supposed to illustrate it, but this friend won't finish it.
00:32:06
Speaker
She's been working on it for 10 years.
00:32:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:32:08
Speaker
And it's just a little children's book.
00:32:11
Speaker
But apparently she's not like a creative normally.
00:32:15
Speaker
And it's just like so precious to her that she just can't finish it.
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:22
Speaker
So that can happen.
00:32:23
Speaker
It can.
00:32:24
Speaker
I relate to that.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:27
Speaker
I think...
00:32:29
Speaker
I think there's a risk too in the longer that you hold on to your art and don't send it out into the world.
00:32:34
Speaker
I think the more you're at risk of that.
00:32:36
Speaker
Like, I feel like I'm on the verge of that with my book.
00:32:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
Because I've had, and it needs more time.
00:32:43
Speaker
The prose is not there.
00:32:45
Speaker
I'm needing to learn more.
00:32:47
Speaker
It deserves more time, like just for the whole work of it.
00:32:50
Speaker
Because it's just not good yet.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
But I feel like it's on the way to good from what I've been hearing on feedback.
00:32:58
Speaker
But I feel like I can easily see how I could keep getting further and further and do like, well, there's this author that I love and this work is so beautiful and my work is not there yet.
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
And especially because the world of this book I've lived with for 10 years that I'm like, well, if I'm going to finally do it.
00:33:18
Speaker
Right.
00:33:19
Speaker
Oh my gosh, Nate.
00:33:20
Speaker
What?
00:33:20
Speaker
What?
00:33:22
Speaker
The bonus stuff we were talking about is about to come into play.
00:33:26
Speaker
Oh, no, it is.
00:33:29
Speaker
Now you have to listen to the bonus stuff.
00:33:33
Speaker
Oh, my word.
00:33:34
Speaker
This is a video game that John's very interested in that is supposed to be released almost 10 years ago, and it has not yet.
00:33:40
Speaker
They just keep on making it better and better, but never release it.
00:33:42
Speaker
That's what this is about.
00:33:43
Speaker
And they've raised $700 million.
00:33:45
Speaker
We talked about that for 15 minutes.
00:33:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:50
Speaker
Nate's like, don't rush.
00:33:53
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:33:54
Speaker
But it's like that where it's like... We could be making a lot of money by not releasing our stuff.
00:34:03
Speaker
Let's not release this episode until it's perfect made.
00:34:06
Speaker
Oh!
00:34:08
Speaker
But, okay, no, that's a great example, though.
00:34:11
Speaker
This was recorded in 1998.
00:34:13
Speaker
We've been talking since then.
00:34:17
Speaker
Before I was born, Nate was an age.
00:34:20
Speaker
I don't remember how much older you are.
00:34:22
Speaker
I was six.
00:34:24
Speaker
That's one of my favorite John Van Dusen songs starts that way.
00:34:26
Speaker
Now you've got it stuck in my head.
00:34:28
Speaker
Nice.
00:34:30
Speaker
No, but like that game, it's supposed to be like a game about being in space and stuff.
00:34:37
Speaker
Go on.
00:34:40
Speaker
Now you're egging me on, Tarant.
00:34:44
Speaker
It's like a sci-fi... Think Star Wars or Star Trek, right?
00:34:47
Speaker
And so they're just trying to create that universe.
00:34:49
Speaker
What they've already made is so much better than most things on there.
00:34:54
Speaker
If they just polished it up and put it out there, it could be great.
00:34:58
Speaker
If they were just like, what we have is enough, it doesn't need to be everything.
00:35:03
Speaker
But either because it's been so long or because...
00:35:07
Speaker
There's a sense of like ego and greatness that they feel like or maybe because it's made so much money that they're like we owe something because there's there could be an obligation side.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, too.
00:35:18
Speaker
I feel like of like my art has to be so good that it has to be worthy of all this money of all of this.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker
Like like the flip side of ego, like an inferiority complex kind of thing.
00:35:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:29
Speaker
That stops it from being put out there.
00:35:33
Speaker
And so there's which is, I think, a blessing that theater has of usually if you're doing a show, at least in the amateur world, it's different if you're like workshopping it or something like that.
00:35:45
Speaker
But it's like, okay, you have the date that you're opening that was set a year ago.
00:35:50
Speaker
So you've got until then and you've just got to figure it out, you know, or if you are already an established author, and you have like a deadline, it's like, well, you've got to get the book out at this point.
00:36:00
Speaker
But when you're your own master, that can really spiral.
00:36:06
Speaker
that's interesting that'd make it hard to be like a artist that you that didn't work for anybody yeah we need patrons back yeah yeah no yeah go ahead no you you were about to say something because i was about to change the subject
00:36:29
Speaker
No, I just want to kind of bring it back to everyday living kind of thing, too.
00:36:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's great.
00:36:37
Speaker
So when you're walking the dog.
00:36:39
Speaker
Just do it.
00:36:40
Speaker
Simply.
00:36:41
Speaker
Simply walk that dog.
00:36:42
Speaker
Left, right, left, right, left, right.
00:36:45
Speaker
If you're thinking about it, you're doing it wrong.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:47
Speaker
Stop thinking about which foot is going for.
00:36:49
Speaker
We know you're walking the dog while you're listening to this podcast.
00:36:51
Speaker
Listen, you who are driving right now, listening to this podcast, don't overthink your driving.
00:36:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:58
Speaker
Right.
00:36:59
Speaker
I thought our audience was just the walking the dog people.
00:37:04
Speaker
Nate alienates.
00:37:05
Speaker
That's 50% of it are car driving people and 50% are dog walking people.
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:11
Speaker
Whichever category you
Spiritual Simplicity and Biblical Teachings
00:37:13
Speaker
land in.
00:37:13
Speaker
Sorry, I've derailed it for the sake of a joke.
00:37:15
Speaker
But what about... You must be perfect as my Heavenly Father is perfect.
00:37:24
Speaker
True, but we can't do that on our own strength.
00:37:27
Speaker
So...
00:37:31
Speaker
I feel like that's where presence and simplicity.
00:37:34
Speaker
I feel like humility is an undertone of this that we haven't named, but is there.
00:37:38
Speaker
Humility.
00:37:39
Speaker
We've named it now.
00:37:41
Speaker
Good job.
00:37:41
Speaker
I'm shaking your hand a lot.
00:37:43
Speaker
I'm shaking your hand too long.
00:37:44
Speaker
Captain America.
00:37:46
Speaker
Wow.
00:37:47
Speaker
I know you too.
00:37:48
Speaker
You're great.
00:37:50
Speaker
I like a little friendly formality and friendship.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:57
Speaker
Next time I'll salute you.
00:37:58
Speaker
Next time you make a really good point.
00:38:00
Speaker
That'd be great.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:01
Speaker
And all the audio people will miss it.
00:38:05
Speaker
Oh, my word.
00:38:06
Speaker
Humility.
00:38:07
Speaker
Humility.
00:38:08
Speaker
Yes.
00:38:09
Speaker
I feel like we need to be willing.
00:38:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:14
Speaker
Well, sometimes this was like a lesson I had to learn.
00:38:21
Speaker
I think a lot of times we can think like sanctification, the path to holiness is this really difficult thing.
00:38:28
Speaker
And it is, but it's not.
00:38:30
Speaker
We're thinking correctly, but it's, but we're not achieving it.
00:38:34
Speaker
Right.
00:38:34
Speaker
God is.
00:38:35
Speaker
Right.
00:38:35
Speaker
And that's a crazy, simple concept.
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:38
Speaker
Where God is like, Hey, if you're,
00:38:43
Speaker
if you're, it's in Romans, I'm forgetting the passage because it's been a minute since I really deep dive studied it.
00:38:48
Speaker
But it's like, you died to sin and now you are alive in Christ.
00:38:52
Speaker
So you are living in the spirit.
00:38:54
Speaker
So just give it up.
00:38:55
Speaker
And just say, just trust that God is going to do this.
00:38:59
Speaker
The flesh, which can try to do good and does not do as good as living in the spirit.
00:39:06
Speaker
Uh-oh, I need to talk.
00:39:11
Speaker
I think
00:39:13
Speaker
It looks like you had a thought.
00:39:15
Speaker
So I was like, I can buy time.
00:39:16
Speaker
My thought was like, oh no, I need to talk.
00:39:22
Speaker
See, no, I can, I can talk when I don't need to talk.
00:39:25
Speaker
Just like I can live well in the spirit when I'm not trying.
00:39:29
Speaker
Why aren't you looking this up?
00:39:30
Speaker
I'm talking.
00:39:31
Speaker
Quick, use this time while I still have a thought that's leaving.
00:39:40
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:39:42
Speaker
He's getting close.
00:39:45
Speaker
I just need to revert back to commentating.
00:39:47
Speaker
No, but he's like, you're a slave to righteousness.
00:39:49
Speaker
Like, it's like, there's no other choice we have almost.
00:39:54
Speaker
We've been set free from sin and are slaves to righteousness.
00:39:58
Speaker
Right.
00:39:59
Speaker
Sin shall no longer be your master because you're not under the law, but under grace.
00:40:03
Speaker
You're like living in that.
00:40:05
Speaker
And so it's this weird, simple thing to just open your hands and say, I'm trusting not just my justification and salvation to God.
00:40:18
Speaker
Future.
00:40:19
Speaker
And my like ability to be a good person I'm trusting to God.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yes.
00:40:25
Speaker
And I'm going to believe that he's giving it to me.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:40:30
Speaker
And that's been.
00:40:31
Speaker
And that he loves you.
00:40:33
Speaker
Enough to do that.
00:40:35
Speaker
Enough to do that.
00:40:37
Speaker
And through the fumbles.
00:40:39
Speaker
Of which there will be.
00:40:41
Speaker
It's kind of like, I'm going to bring it back to the art.
00:40:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:44
Speaker
It's like acting.
00:40:45
Speaker
One of the things I tell people all the time is like, don't stop if you make a mistake when you're in rehearsal or something.
00:40:51
Speaker
Don't tell me that you did it wrong.
00:40:53
Speaker
Just make a note of it in that run.
00:40:55
Speaker
And next time, don't do that if you didn't like it.
00:40:58
Speaker
That was such a problem with me when I was playing piano growing up.
00:41:02
Speaker
If I'd make a mistake, I'd want to go back a couple notes, then do it right, and I'd just have a... That was the piano song.
00:41:10
Speaker
It didn't sound good.
00:41:13
Speaker
But to just be able to go through the foibles and trust God, it's a very simple concept.
00:41:25
Speaker
And it requires us to be present with him and humble and embrace our own limits and be simple people.
00:41:39
Speaker
What's that mean?
00:41:42
Speaker
To embrace our limits, to be simple people.
00:41:43
Speaker
Simple people.
00:41:46
Speaker
Like, I'm nothing greater than what God's grace gives me.
00:41:51
Speaker
Like, at the end of the day, all of my life boils down to what God's grace gives me.
00:41:56
Speaker
Nice.
00:41:56
Speaker
At the end of the day, that's what animates me.
00:42:00
Speaker
Not in a motivational way, in a literal, like,
00:42:07
Speaker
literal, spiritual, physical sense.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yep.
00:42:11
Speaker
We're dust.
00:42:13
Speaker
If he wasn't holding us together right now, we would dissipate.
00:42:17
Speaker
Quite literally.
00:42:21
Speaker
It's a grace each moment, each breath.
00:42:23
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:42:25
Speaker
Thank you.
00:42:26
Speaker
See, and that's... I don't need to... I was about to veer towards the liturgy.
00:42:30
Speaker
I was like, Hamlet?
00:42:32
Speaker
No.
00:42:33
Speaker
The other drink.
00:42:34
Speaker
The drink of wine, the Eucharist.
Eucharist: Complexity in Simplicity
00:42:37
Speaker
Which we all know is... The blood.
00:42:43
Speaker
But, no, there's even... Well, it is... It's such a simple thing.
00:42:47
Speaker
Say it.
00:42:48
Speaker
Eucharist.
00:42:49
Speaker
Communion.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
Jesus said, whether you're taking it as like... I just read that today.
00:42:55
Speaker
That passage?
00:42:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:42:57
Speaker
I think whether you're taking it as God wants me to take this moment to pause and think about his grace, or you think he is really present in this, or you think it literally becomes the body of Christ when it enters your mouth, regardless, I mean, that one's a little more complex, but Jesus did the most astronomical...
00:43:17
Speaker
thing that is incredibly complex has been studied for two thousands of years by theologians and what did he give Christian people as regulative practices as signs of that insane crazy thing
00:43:35
Speaker
If you're a Protestant.
00:43:37
Speaker
So any Catholic audience members may say there's more sacraments.
00:43:41
Speaker
And I think there's sacramental things in those.
00:43:45
Speaker
But anyway.
00:43:46
Speaker
But the two that Jesus gave us in Scripture that Jesus said that came directly from his mouth was...
00:43:54
Speaker
Go and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:58
Speaker
Which is fairly simple.
00:44:00
Speaker
Despite the debates, it's a simple command.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:04
Speaker
And then he gave us a meal to eat.
00:44:06
Speaker
That's nice.
00:44:07
Speaker
And that, like Christ came.
00:44:10
Speaker
Be clean, be fed.
00:44:11
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:44:13
Speaker
And he said... And go on.
00:44:15
Speaker
In this meal...
00:44:17
Speaker
The words he said is, this is my body and this is my blood.
00:44:22
Speaker
It's such a simple thing, but it's also the most mysterious, crazy thing.
00:44:27
Speaker
And what do we do with that?
00:44:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:30
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:44:30
Speaker
But for me, it's this beautiful touch point of every week.
00:44:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:35
Speaker
You just accept it.
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:37
Speaker
And you eat it.
00:44:39
Speaker
And it nourishes you bodily and spiritually.
00:44:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:43
Speaker
And it's so simple.
00:44:45
Speaker
And it's a reminder that Christ is always doing that.
00:44:49
Speaker
It's a touch point.
00:44:51
Speaker
If you believe he's present in that spiritually or physically, then it is a tangible touch point of Jesus is here.
00:45:02
Speaker
Even as he's always with me, it's so simple, but it's so complex.
00:45:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:08
Speaker
And I think there's value probably to delving into the complex.
00:45:13
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:45:14
Speaker
But at time in life, I think there's a lot of value of just accepting the simplicity.
00:45:21
Speaker
And the mystery.
00:45:21
Speaker
And the mystery.
00:45:22
Speaker
We're bringing another thing in.
00:45:24
Speaker
What?
00:45:25
Speaker
So if you're taking notes, simplicity, presence, humility, and then mystery.
00:45:32
Speaker
We need a vowel so it can spell something.
00:45:36
Speaker
Simplicity, presence, humility, mystery.
00:45:41
Speaker
So that's S-P-H-M.
00:45:47
Speaker
What can we spell with those?
00:45:48
Speaker
Nothing.
00:45:48
Speaker
There's no vowel.
00:45:51
Speaker
And awareness, maths.
Mystery and Imagination in Simplicity
00:45:54
Speaker
M-A-P-H-S, maths.
00:45:57
Speaker
So anyway, about simplicity.
00:45:59
Speaker
Hamps.
00:46:02
Speaker
That's better.
00:46:03
Speaker
If we get an E, it can be hampers.
00:46:04
Speaker
Hamps.
00:46:09
Speaker
Remember hampers.
00:46:13
Speaker
The key to art in the Christian life is hampers.
00:46:17
Speaker
You think on that.
00:46:18
Speaker
I'm going to talk.
00:46:19
Speaker
Eucharist.
00:46:21
Speaker
It's a little specific.
00:46:22
Speaker
That's a lot of letters.
00:46:25
Speaker
No, E could be Eucharist.
00:46:28
Speaker
Oh, I see what you're saying.
00:46:31
Speaker
That works.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:33
Speaker
I'll take it.
00:46:34
Speaker
Ampers.
00:46:36
Speaker
I'm like, you don't have to sell me on the Eucharist.
00:46:38
Speaker
I'm all there.
00:46:41
Speaker
But it's Jesus.
00:46:45
Speaker
Comment down below and have a crazy theological day.
00:46:49
Speaker
We need the engagement.
00:46:50
Speaker
We need the engagement.
00:46:52
Speaker
Get us more views.
00:46:55
Speaker
No, but there's, I think, and in art, I'm thinking about really simple works.
00:47:01
Speaker
They create mystery when there's things left out.
00:47:05
Speaker
And it's just there.
00:47:06
Speaker
And, yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
As an actor, you bring yourself to the stage and it's simple and the audience doesn't see everything, but there's, there's mystery and it makes people want to know more and go deeper, which may reflect back on themselves or may drive them to something beneficial.
00:47:26
Speaker
Um, there's a mystery.
00:47:31
Speaker
that can surround simplicity, I think, because there is more.
00:47:35
Speaker
Right.
00:47:36
Speaker
There is more.
00:47:37
Speaker
Right.
00:47:37
Speaker
That landscape that you've, the landscape you've created in the children's book, there's more to that world.
00:47:45
Speaker
There's some blades of grass that we're not seeing.
00:47:47
Speaker
Right.
00:47:48
Speaker
But like, I feel like there's this sort of,
00:47:54
Speaker
mysterious magicalness to that.
00:47:56
Speaker
You know?
00:47:59
Speaker
It's a place.
00:48:00
Speaker
It's not all places.
00:48:02
Speaker
And like a black box show where it's like just the actors in some boxes.
00:48:05
Speaker
If it's done well, the imagination...
00:48:09
Speaker
runs wild with what we don't see.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:11
Speaker
And is drawn in by the mystery.
00:48:14
Speaker
And the imagination is drawn in in spiritual ways too, I think, in spiritual practices and things that are simple but full of deep, rich meaning.
00:48:23
Speaker
Yep.
00:48:23
Speaker
We weren't built to know everything.
00:48:26
Speaker
No.
00:48:26
Speaker
Our brains don't have the capacity.
00:48:28
Speaker
We weren't meant to eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
00:48:34
Speaker
We were meant to eat from the tree of life, which Christ has renewed for us in the Eucharist, I think.
00:48:39
Speaker
Oh, not completely, but I think there's a connection.
00:48:43
Speaker
Now I'm going to get into a weird niche theological thing.
00:48:46
Speaker
I don't need to.
00:48:48
Speaker
Do I need to?
00:48:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:48:49
Speaker
I feel like it piqued your interest.
00:48:50
Speaker
I'll tell you off the air.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:52
Speaker
And then if people want to know, they can comment.
00:48:53
Speaker
I think you've told me, but I need a reminder.
00:48:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:55
Speaker
I'll tell you off air.
00:48:56
Speaker
I'm like, I don't need to go.
00:48:58
Speaker
They're probably interested now.
00:48:59
Speaker
I know.
00:49:00
Speaker
Now I've made a big deal.
00:49:03
Speaker
I always do this.
00:49:04
Speaker
I'm like, I start to say a thing and then I draw attention to the fact that I started to say a thing, but don't need to.
00:49:10
Speaker
And then people are like, what is it?
00:49:12
Speaker
What's the connection?
00:49:13
Speaker
Um,
00:49:14
Speaker
I'm going to streamline it.
00:49:15
Speaker
Theologically, in my theological framework from an Anglican perspective, I believe that Christ is really present in the Eucharist.
00:49:21
Speaker
And so he sustains us with his grace and offers us something of his life in the same way he sacrificed his life for us.
00:49:29
Speaker
So we are sustained by the life and grace of Christ.
00:49:33
Speaker
There is, it was the Bible Project podcast.
00:49:37
Speaker
I was listening to it with a friend and they were talking about the Tree of Life and they were talking about how, I don't remember where exactly they were, it was something in the language or the literary context, but they were like, it seems like
00:49:50
Speaker
this tree would be God giving life to Adam and Eve, to his people.
00:49:57
Speaker
And so the Eucharist, I don't think is like complete one-to-one analogy to that, but I think there's something, yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
Or like a mid, like a, like a, like it sustains us for now sort of idea of like, right.
00:50:11
Speaker
There was this perfect tree and then we messed it up.
00:50:13
Speaker
We, we can't get that perfectly.
00:50:15
Speaker
Is there mention of that tree in heaven?
00:50:17
Speaker
Isn't there?
00:50:18
Speaker
I feel like maybe regardless, like we get resurrected bodies, we certainly receive like life from God, whether it's in the form of the tree of life, which I feel like it mentions, but I can't remember for sure, or if it's in another form.
00:50:33
Speaker
And so I think narratively, that's a really beautiful sort of.
00:50:38
Speaker
trajectory and cool connection point of tree of life.
00:50:42
Speaker
We leave it.
00:50:43
Speaker
Christ sacrifices himself and then reestablishes the very thing that he hoped for us to get in a sort of
00:50:51
Speaker
Faded is the only word.
00:50:52
Speaker
Tangible, yeah.
00:50:52
Speaker
Yeah, tangible way that is not fully complete.
00:50:55
Speaker
It's already, but not yet.
00:50:57
Speaker
Right.
00:50:57
Speaker
Like the kingdom of God.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:59
Speaker
That both looks back and gives us something of the grace of God and looks forward to the completion of that.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah, I was just reading Jesus said that he was very much looking forward to eating this meal with his disciples and that he would not eat of it again until he ate it with them in the kingdom.
00:51:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:51:18
Speaker
So it was kind of in your framework kind of like a touch point there.
00:51:23
Speaker
It's like a prefiguring of that.
00:51:25
Speaker
It's a preview.
00:51:26
Speaker
It's a trailer.
00:51:28
Speaker
The Eucharist is a movie trailer for heaven.
00:51:32
Speaker
In a world where you can eat with Jesus.
00:51:38
Speaker
Somebody ate from the wrong tree.
00:51:41
Speaker
Ruined most everything.
00:51:45
Speaker
This feels like it's now, now I want it to just be a 90s comedy and it like smash cuts to James Franco as Adam.
00:51:54
Speaker
In New York City.
00:51:57
Speaker
Bet you wouldn't believe it, but I ruined everything for everybody.
00:52:03
Speaker
Oh.
00:52:06
Speaker
I wanted to talk about some times that simplicity is bad in art, but we've gone a really long time.
00:52:11
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:52:12
Speaker
Maybe we can do that later.
00:52:14
Speaker
This podcast is getting complex.
00:52:17
Speaker
It's a two-part on simplicity.
00:52:19
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:52:21
Speaker
We can't name it that.
00:52:23
Speaker
We can't do it.
00:52:23
Speaker
It's a complex podcast on simplicity.
00:52:25
Speaker
Oh.
00:52:28
Speaker
Hypocrites.
00:52:29
Speaker
Hypocrites.
00:52:29
Speaker
We'll revisit it another time.
00:52:31
Speaker
Because I would love to talk about that.
00:52:32
Speaker
I had like Marvel TV shows written down as things that did like simplicity draws it back into redundancy sometimes.
00:52:42
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:52:43
Speaker
And not being rich.
00:52:44
Speaker
So I think we should talk about that sometime.
00:52:46
Speaker
And I'm sure that there's like visual art and different things where somebody tried to be simplistic.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:51
Speaker
Boring.
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:52
Speaker
Or overdid it.
00:52:53
Speaker
And yeah.
00:52:54
Speaker
So we'll talk about that another time.
00:52:58
Speaker
So if you want to hear more of us talking way too long about simplicity.
00:53:04
Speaker
They loved it.
00:53:05
Speaker
They loved it.
00:53:06
Speaker
But yes, if you want to hear that conversation, if you want to hear other conversations, subscribe.
Encouragement to Engage with the Podcast
00:53:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:11
Speaker
Or follow.
00:53:12
Speaker
We have an email newsletter that you can sign up for on our website.
00:53:16
Speaker
We will let you know when podcasts go out, whenever exciting things are happening with the organization.
00:53:20
Speaker
which some things will be coming out soon-ish.
00:53:24
Speaker
I don't know the exact time frame, but at some point in the coming months, some exciting announcements of what Artists of the Way is doing is going to come out.
00:53:31
Speaker
And if you want to like and share and leave a review... Leave a review.
00:53:35
Speaker
That helps...
00:53:37
Speaker
Algorithms.
00:53:37
Speaker
It does help the algorithm.
00:53:39
Speaker
It also helps me.
00:53:40
Speaker
It's been nice to read the couple times that there's been reviews.
00:53:42
Speaker
I'm like, oh, there is something that's being offered here.
00:53:46
Speaker
I know what we're doing well and what we're not doing well.
00:53:48
Speaker
I just joined the podcast.
00:53:49
Speaker
So now leave another review so I can read it.
00:53:51
Speaker
Right, because now it's different.
00:53:53
Speaker
And it's also the only way that we can reach new people is by people sharing it.
00:53:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:57
Speaker
Because I only get so far by sharing to Facebook.
00:53:59
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
Social media, man.
00:54:04
Speaker
It sucks.
00:54:05
Speaker
People don't care.
00:54:05
Speaker
But share us on social media.
00:54:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:08
Speaker
Let them trust your opinions.
00:54:10
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:10
Speaker
Even if they don't trust ours.
00:54:12
Speaker
I'm biased.
00:54:13
Speaker
Of course you should listen to my podcast.
00:54:15
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:54:17
Speaker
I'm talking.
00:54:19
Speaker
Who doesn't want to hear me talk me?
00:54:22
Speaker
Now you have to listen to it twice because I have to edit it.
00:54:25
Speaker
Oh.
00:54:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:27
Speaker
Like, what's there to edit?
00:54:28
Speaker
It was good.
00:54:31
Speaker
Well, the 20 minutes of preamble.
00:54:34
Speaker
Just a little cut and paste.
00:54:37
Speaker
Speaking of that 20 minutes of preamble, you can listen to it in a minute if you want to.
00:54:43
Speaker
Now.
00:54:46
Speaker
Now.
00:54:48
Speaker
Thank you guys so much for joining.
00:54:49
Speaker
We so appreciate you guys tuning in every couple of weeks.
00:54:53
Speaker
That's nice.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:55
Speaker
Blessings.
00:54:56
Speaker
Have a great couple of weeks.
00:54:57
Speaker
Thank you guys.
00:54:59
Speaker
Enjoy walking simply with God, knowing that he is simply walking with you as your shepherd right beside you.
00:55:05
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:55:17
Speaker
Welp.
00:55:21
Speaker
Welp-um.
00:55:22
Speaker
Welp-um?
00:55:24
Speaker
Welp-um to our show of the way.
00:55:26
Speaker
Did you see the joystick I have now?
00:55:29
Speaker
No.
00:55:30
Speaker
Oh my gosh, dude, this is... I'll show you after the podcast.
00:55:33
Speaker
We're friends after the podcast.
00:55:36
Speaker
Is it a flying game?
00:55:37
Speaker
It can be for flying games.
00:55:39
Speaker
It's not for any game in particular, but that's... Well, now I'm just telling you.
00:55:43
Speaker
But yeah, it's... I use it specifically for like space games.
00:55:48
Speaker
Flying in space.
00:55:49
Speaker
There's like Star Wars Battlefront 2.
00:55:51
Speaker
You can play on the ground and in space.
00:55:52
Speaker
So...
00:55:53
Speaker
When I'm in space, I'll break that out.
00:55:55
Speaker
And I've got like a space sim game that I've been playing recently, which is fine, but it scratches an itch.
00:56:00
Speaker
I love space sim games.
00:56:01
Speaker
I wish that they were more popular.
00:56:04
Speaker
What is that?
00:56:04
Speaker
Or bigger.
00:56:05
Speaker
It's like, they're like, let's try and emulate like Star Trek or something like that.
00:56:10
Speaker
Or like that kind of vibe.
00:56:12
Speaker
Is it where it keeps generating more and more planets kind of thing?
00:56:16
Speaker
Depends on the way you do it.
00:56:19
Speaker
So there was, when I was 15,
00:56:23
Speaker
15 14 or 15 something like that there were several big games that were like we're going to be the next big space sim game and we're going to be first person and you're going to get to do all these things and they were no man's sky elite dangerous and star citizen okay and they were all taking a slightly different approach where elite dangerous was like we're like a space combat oriented game yeah um so you're like a soldier and
00:56:47
Speaker
You're fighting each other.
00:56:48
Speaker
You can explore the galaxy.
00:56:49
Speaker
You can do trading if you want.
00:56:51
Speaker
But it's like we're first person.
00:56:52
Speaker
You're inside your ship and it's first person.
00:56:54
Speaker
And you can fly around and stuff.
00:56:56
Speaker
But we're trying to have really good combat.
00:56:58
Speaker
And then No Man's Sky was like, we're just trying to make Minecraft but in space and 3D.
00:57:03
Speaker
So it's very whimsical.
00:57:05
Speaker
But they like, that's a crazy story.
00:57:08
Speaker
Because they initially overpromised.
00:57:11
Speaker
They were a very small game studio that had only done mobile games.
00:57:16
Speaker
And then they announced this game and it looked really good.
00:57:19
Speaker
And then they started saying more and more things about it that were not really true.
00:57:24
Speaker
Like that it was going to be multiplayer.
00:57:27
Speaker
And it was not multiplayer at all.
00:57:30
Speaker
That's different.
00:57:31
Speaker
It is.
00:57:31
Speaker
I don't know.
00:57:33
Speaker
But incredibly, since that launched...
00:57:38
Speaker
Their team doubled down and was like, okay, we need to make this what we promised.
00:57:42
Speaker
Really?
00:57:43
Speaker
And they've added that all for free.
00:57:45
Speaker
No paid DLC or anything.
00:57:46
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:57:48
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:57:49
Speaker
And now it's a great game.
00:57:50
Speaker
I don't love it just because...
00:57:53
Speaker
just because it's great but i don't like it i own it i've played a little bit but just the style of it is not what i want from like a space game okay and then there's star citizen which is my pie in the sky what i wanted it's not i don't think it's ever going to come out it's raised oh it's not happened yet well it's complicated have you ever heard descent
00:58:20
Speaker
This was back in when I was a little kid.
00:58:24
Speaker
It was a computer game.
00:58:26
Speaker
And it involved flying in a spaceship type thing.
00:58:33
Speaker
I don't think you're usually in space.
00:58:34
Speaker
You're probably usually on a planet.
00:58:36
Speaker
I can see it.
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:39
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:58:39
Speaker
I think we played like descent two and three.
00:58:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:58:42
Speaker
And yeah, it was pretty sweet.
00:58:43
Speaker
And we had a, we had a joystick for that.
00:58:47
Speaker
And it's really, so those are so cool.
00:58:49
Speaker
That's kind of the vibe, but now imagine you can like get out of your ship.
00:58:53
Speaker
Right.
00:58:54
Speaker
And,
00:58:55
Speaker
walk around in the world and like pick a job that you want to do.
00:58:59
Speaker
It just keeps sounding more and more boring.
00:59:03
Speaker
Imagine you could then do your taxes.
00:59:07
Speaker
I once spent an entire hour of my life just doing chores in Red Dead Redemption 2.
00:59:15
Speaker
What kind of chores?
00:59:17
Speaker
Shoveling cow poop.
00:59:20
Speaker
Raking...
00:59:22
Speaker
the hay out of their stables, the horse's stables, grooming my horse, carrying some feet across the yard.
00:59:33
Speaker
Did you enjoy that?
00:59:34
Speaker
I did.
00:59:35
Speaker
Nice.
00:59:36
Speaker
If I ever played GTA, which I technically have played the online version with Sam, but if I ever played it, I would probably frequently take taxi rides.
00:59:47
Speaker
Because I think it's kind of fun.
00:59:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:50
Speaker
It's like all this like crazy stuff going on around you.
00:59:53
Speaker
And then the music slows down to like elevator music.
00:59:56
Speaker
You in a taxi.
00:59:58
Speaker
To see a car flying overhead.
01:00:00
Speaker
Players shooting police officers.
01:00:02
Speaker
Sitting pleasantly and saying like to the driver.
01:00:06
Speaker
So how's your day?
01:00:07
Speaker
How long have you been in this country?
01:00:13
Speaker
But I have always been fascinated with games that can emulate your living a life type vibe.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:20
Speaker
So the idea of being able to go to space and just try my darndest to be a bounty hunter and probably not do it very well.
01:00:29
Speaker
And end up having to do some trading along the way.
01:00:32
Speaker
And then maybe there's other players out there and they're pirates.
01:00:34
Speaker
So I could go try and capture him and then bring him into my ship.
01:00:38
Speaker
And then I have to physically drag him into my ship.
01:00:41
Speaker
But like in a video game, so digitally, physically drag him into my ship and try and lock him up and fly and do all of this and not skip anything.
01:00:49
Speaker
No load screens.
01:00:50
Speaker
I'm like, that sounds fascinating.
01:00:52
Speaker
especially in like a space game context yeah it's like i'll never experience that you know so star citizen is like its goal was to be like that like a persistent universe with an in-game economy that could shift and change based on what players did and like different like factions so you could really like impact the world and make choices and
01:01:19
Speaker
But then they were like, we have to build our own engine, which is like the thing the game runs on.
01:01:26
Speaker
So they're like, we're going to build our own engine because we're trying to build this all so that it's always, always running.
01:01:31
Speaker
There's no load screens.
01:01:32
Speaker
It's not separated into different things.
01:01:34
Speaker
Does that mean it needed its own console?
01:01:38
Speaker
Console?
01:01:39
Speaker
console no it wouldn't need its own console so the engine is like the system like a program that the game runs on that you like build the game in oh oh oh right right right yeah so they need to build one of those that can handle what they're trying to do so they have raised guess how much money okay um 17 million more it's been going since 2015
01:02:08
Speaker
Oh, and it hasn't happened yet?
01:02:11
Speaker
You can play some of it.
01:02:13
Speaker
What they've done is they've released some modules.
01:02:15
Speaker
So there is a solar system you can play in, but it's technically considered an alpha stage.
01:02:22
Speaker
What's an alpha stage?
01:02:24
Speaker
The first stage of a video game.
01:02:26
Speaker
There's alpha and then beta is right before it comes out.
01:02:28
Speaker
Is it 34 million?
01:02:30
Speaker
It's a lot more.
01:02:31
Speaker
117 million?
01:02:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:36
Speaker
A lot more.
01:02:40
Speaker
Oh!
01:02:40
Speaker
What?
01:02:41
Speaker
$392 million?
01:02:42
Speaker
A lot more.
01:02:43
Speaker
What?
01:02:44
Speaker
A billion?
01:02:45
Speaker
A lot more.
01:02:48
Speaker
No!
01:02:49
Speaker
What are they doing?
01:02:50
Speaker
Why can't the money make it happen?
01:02:52
Speaker
I'm pretty sure.
01:02:53
Speaker
$5.6 billion and a couple cents.
01:02:56
Speaker
Oh, no, I was wrong.
01:02:57
Speaker
You went up to billion.
01:02:59
Speaker
You were right.
01:03:00
Speaker
Go back down.
01:03:00
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:03
Speaker
Wait, is it more or less than billion?
01:03:05
Speaker
It's less than a billion.
01:03:06
Speaker
Oh, well.
01:03:08
Speaker
Okay, 749 million.
01:03:09
Speaker
Close, 700 million.
01:03:10
Speaker
Oh, see?
01:03:11
Speaker
Wow!
01:03:14
Speaker
It'd be a really high-grossing movie if it did that.
01:03:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:03:19
Speaker
So the way they monetize it is one of their big selling points is their ships.
01:03:25
Speaker
The ships are so cool, dude.
01:03:27
Speaker
And you can go inside and walk around all of them.
01:03:29
Speaker
Some of them you can fly with your friends.
01:03:31
Speaker
They all fly a little different.
01:03:34
Speaker
If you wanted to, you could set course on your ship and then go into another room and sleep in a bed.
01:03:40
Speaker
That's cool.
01:03:41
Speaker
I know.
01:03:42
Speaker
But all of the ships cost real world money.
01:03:45
Speaker
Oh, really?
01:03:46
Speaker
And the cheapest ship is $40.
01:03:48
Speaker
No.
01:03:49
Speaker
The most, hang on.
01:03:50
Speaker
Man, why do people keep on giving them money in like a Kickstarter sort of way?
01:03:58
Speaker
Do they need it?
01:04:00
Speaker
They do need it because they have staff that they pay.
01:04:02
Speaker
They're a whole company that are doing this and are crowdfunding it.
01:04:06
Speaker
So they do need to be able to pay their staff.
01:04:08
Speaker
How big is this company?
01:04:10
Speaker
I don't know.
01:04:12
Speaker
And they are also developing a lot of tech.
01:04:15
Speaker
There's some people that say it's a scam, and I don't think it's a scam because they are doing stuff.
01:04:20
Speaker
I just think it's been so successful that now they're kind of like, we don't need to release the game yet.
01:04:29
Speaker
People are still buying ships and paying money.
01:04:32
Speaker
So let's just make this everything that it could possibly be to the ultimate degree.
01:04:40
Speaker
So, I'm seeing what the most expensive ship is.
01:04:43
Speaker
Do they have... Do they have they said?
01:04:45
Speaker
It's going to release in 2026.
01:04:48
Speaker
The original release date was 2016, 2017.
01:04:52
Speaker
And it's just been bumped back and back.
01:04:57
Speaker
There's also...
01:04:59
Speaker
A single player campaign that's supposed to come out starring Henry Cavill, Gary Oldman, Mark Hamill.
01:05:07
Speaker
What?
01:05:08
Speaker
Just so many big names.
01:05:10
Speaker
Oh, my.
01:05:12
Speaker
As of 2023, I think there's a more expensive ship now.
01:05:16
Speaker
But as of 2023, the most expensive ship package was $48,000.
01:05:23
Speaker
my word yeah i think it's egregious this might be a scam or just or just their consumers are well they're yeah there's a lot of rich and nerds who will like just play video games which i could i feel like if i were not if i didn't care about the arts and i had unlimited amounts of wealth
01:05:48
Speaker
I'd be like, this sounds awesome.
01:05:50
Speaker
I could pour my life into this.
01:05:52
Speaker
And it has a solid community from everything that I've heard, like in the game.
01:05:56
Speaker
A lot of games have really toxic communities.
01:05:58
Speaker
A lot of very hopeful people.
01:06:00
Speaker
I know.
01:06:00
Speaker
So it's nice.
01:06:01
Speaker
If you're really depressed, which maybe you are if you're just a gamer who stays inside all day, then you go and they're all like, it's okay, man.
01:06:08
Speaker
There's hope.
01:06:09
Speaker
There's a God.
01:06:10
Speaker
Star Citizen will come out in two years.
01:06:12
Speaker
Someday.
01:06:13
Speaker
Someday this will be a full game and not an alpha.
01:06:17
Speaker
Wow.
01:06:18
Speaker
I don't know if any of this is going to be in the podcast, but it's 13 minutes that we have recorded on Star Citizen now that none of our audience will.
01:06:26
Speaker
They might not care.
01:06:27
Speaker
I don't think they'll care at all.
01:06:32
Speaker
we'll listen to this playback.
01:06:34
Speaker
Maybe I'll put it as like a little bonus at the end.
01:06:37
Speaker
Be like, if you care about John's feelings and the things that John cares about.
01:06:42
Speaker
Well, I, we could continue that.
01:06:44
Speaker
Cause I'm like, there's been sometimes when a video game has like captured me and it's just like, Oh, this experience that I had within the game is something, but I, I've not had that for like years though.
01:06:58
Speaker
For the most part.
01:06:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:59
Speaker
Um,
01:07:02
Speaker
No, I guess I get it.
01:07:03
Speaker
So I don't know if I have a real question because it's definitely a thing.
01:07:06
Speaker
It just couldn't really draw you in.
01:07:08
Speaker
Just that's not currently an interest to me.
01:07:11
Speaker
I think I've noticed it be less of one as I've gotten older.
01:07:14
Speaker
I don't think that's the case for everybody.
01:07:18
Speaker
But usually now what draws me into a game is the narrative if I care about the characters.
01:07:24
Speaker
There's gameplay where it's like I really enjoy playing this game.
01:07:30
Speaker
But I don't think...
01:07:33
Speaker
I'll get sucked into strategy games too, but then there's a narrative in my brain.
01:07:36
Speaker
Like I have a game called Crusader Kings 3 where it's like a, um, it's, do you know the civilization games?
01:07:45
Speaker
I've heard.
01:07:46
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:46
Speaker
They're like turn-based, like,
01:07:50
Speaker
zoomed out strategy games oh yeah you run like a kingdom right right and you make like red alert political decisions yeah but like zoomed out so on like a country like a worldwide level like you are france and you're working with you're doing politics with all these people shall we kill thee uh uh
01:08:16
Speaker
My brain's like, I can't say any people group.
01:08:19
Speaker
Or I'm saying we should kill a people group.
01:08:26
Speaker
But it's like that, but it's in real time.
01:08:27
Speaker
So you're like, and you will like, you get to like make your king.
01:08:32
Speaker
And then when your king dies, he plays his heir and you keep going.
01:08:35
Speaker
You can like go from like being like a count all the way up to an emperor.
01:08:40
Speaker
And so I started playing as Denmark because Hamlet.
01:08:43
Speaker
And I was like, let's see if I can recreate Hamlet.
01:08:46
Speaker
And I did.
01:08:46
Speaker
But then Hamlet lived.
01:08:47
Speaker
And I was like, yay, this is best.
01:08:49
Speaker
Wow.
01:08:50
Speaker
And then I created the Empire of Denmark because I went and conquered Norway.
01:08:54
Speaker
So did you have some of the story points from Hamlet?
01:08:58
Speaker
I did.
01:08:59
Speaker
I don't know how I pulled it together.
01:08:59
Speaker
Did you kill your uncle?
01:09:01
Speaker
It was my... I think it was my...
01:09:09
Speaker
I think one of my sons I had disinherited and he was like not a great guy.
01:09:15
Speaker
And then I died.
01:09:16
Speaker
Oh, you're the uncle.
01:09:18
Speaker
No, I was like their dad.
01:09:22
Speaker
And then I think I played as my grandson, but my uncle became... It was confusing, but somehow I had contrived it so that... Oh, no, I remember what happened.
01:09:34
Speaker
So the like murder part happened while their like dad was alive.
01:09:38
Speaker
So I was like the king and then my one son murdered my other son.
01:09:41
Speaker
And then I played as the dead son's nephew and got revenge on the uncle who had killed him after the grandfather died.
01:09:49
Speaker
So there was like a grandfather figure that wasn't in Hamlet, but I basically did Hamlet.
01:09:55
Speaker
Could have been.
01:09:56
Speaker
There could have been a grandpa.
01:09:58
Speaker
But then I created the Empire of Denmark, and I was very invested in the Empire of Denmark.
01:10:02
Speaker
Wow.
01:10:02
Speaker
Because I was like, we beat Sweden.
01:10:04
Speaker
We beat Norway.
01:10:05
Speaker
We're working on these tribes to the right here.
01:10:08
Speaker
Everything's great.
01:10:09
Speaker
I want to start conquering the Holy Roman Empire next.
01:10:13
Speaker
Oh, is that when we are?
01:10:14
Speaker
Yes.
01:10:15
Speaker
We're like in the collapse of the Holy Roman Empire era.
01:10:18
Speaker
So they're like waiting.
01:10:20
Speaker
And so I was like, I was like, let's make a really holy like empire in Denmark.
01:10:25
Speaker
And then let's use that to conquer.
01:10:29
Speaker
We are more holy.
01:10:31
Speaker
So we're more deserving of the Holy Empire.
01:10:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:34
Speaker
So we will be the Holy Empire of Denmark.
01:10:37
Speaker
And we will take over the Holy Roman Empire.
01:10:40
Speaker
It'll be holy yours.
01:10:41
Speaker
Yes.
01:10:43
Speaker
But then the, um, the like Denmark, we're taking your land now.
01:10:57
Speaker
But then the Mongols came up and they were terrifying.
01:11:01
Speaker
They took up so much land.
01:11:02
Speaker
But so that like had a story in my brain that was like constructed.
01:11:06
Speaker
Um,
01:11:08
Speaker
So that drew me in.
01:11:09
Speaker
But I don't feel like I get like addictedly drawn into games right now unless I'm into the story and I'm like, I need to know what happens next.
01:11:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:11:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:24
Speaker
I feel like I should start the actual episode now.
01:11:26
Speaker
Let's do it.
01:11:27
Speaker
And this will all be bonus.
01:11:28
Speaker
I'll be like, do you want a bonus 20 minutes of John and Nate talking about video games?
01:11:32
Speaker
And you won't care about 13 minutes of it because it's John talking about Star Citizen and Space Sims.
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah, at the end of the episode, we'll have to say...
01:11:40
Speaker
You don't have to keep listening.
01:11:42
Speaker
They'll be like, why is this an hour and a half long episode so exciting?
01:11:45
Speaker
Well, 20 minutes is me telling you about a game that raised $700 million and promised me that I could be a bounty hunter.
01:11:53
Speaker
And then it didn't give that to me.
01:11:57
Speaker
I mean, I never gave them any money.
01:11:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:00
Speaker
But they promised the world and you're part of that.
01:12:03
Speaker
I am part of the world.
01:12:04
Speaker
Because we're part of it.
01:12:07
Speaker
We're part of this world.
01:12:08
Speaker
Aren't you?
01:12:09
Speaker
Aren't you?
01:12:11
Speaker
Oh, goodness.
01:12:13
Speaker
Wow.
01:12:14
Speaker
Groating rings of power.
01:12:16
Speaker
Doesn't happen often.
01:12:20
Speaker
I quoted Lord of the Rings.
01:12:23
Speaker
When is that in Rings of Power?
01:12:26
Speaker
Oh, is that a hobbit lady?
01:12:29
Speaker
I think so.
01:12:30
Speaker
I was quoting a different hobbit.
01:12:32
Speaker
I thought I was quoting Lord of the Rings.
01:12:34
Speaker
Where is it in Lord of the Rings?
01:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, when Mary's talking to Treebeard.
01:12:38
Speaker
And they're like, we cannot stop this world.
01:12:42
Speaker
Oh, maybe that was what I was quoting.
01:12:44
Speaker
But you're part of this world, aren't you?
01:12:46
Speaker
I feel like Hobbit Girl from...
01:12:52
Speaker
I feel like Hobbit Girl from Rings of Power said something like that too.
01:12:57
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised.
01:12:59
Speaker
They're like, let's get... Where are the rings when I'm just listening?