Transcript
Speaker: Hey friends, welcome back to Artists of the Way.
Speaker: I'm John, the host.
Speaker: Today we're resuming our conversation between myself, Nate Knobloch, and Jordan about our experiences playing Jesus.
Speaker: So we continue to unpack some of the impact that had on ourselves and unpack a little bit of what those two are doing at Godspell, their character dynamics, and just what their experience has been working on the show.
Speaker: Thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Should I tell stories?
Speaker: Sure, go for it.
Speaker: You got a story.
Speaker: I do have a story.
Speaker: I have a couple stories.
Speaker: Matthew narrates the whole thing and he was sick our first weekend and could not sing and he had most of the solos, which was crazy.
Speaker: A lot of, for me,
Speaker: I was 17 and I said when I was doing it, somebody asked me what the experience had been like.
Speaker: And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker: I think I'm too young to grasp what I've just done.
Speaker: And I think that in years to come, I'm going to look back and be like, wow, that was really profound.
Speaker: And that is definitely true.
Speaker: Because I had a sense that I was doing the most important acting thing that I would ever do.
Speaker: But I also was like...
Speaker: 17 and I'm doing a musical, you know, but so a lot of my experience I think was just seeing the presence of God in it.
Speaker: One of my prayers early on, cause I was not sure about accepting it cause I was young and was in a mad place spiritually.
Speaker: Like I was connected to God, but I was like, I'm not like living the best life.
Speaker: Um, so I like took a day to pray about it and I was like, Lord,
Speaker: I just felt peace about it, which is usually my okay.
Speaker: And I was like, Lord, I would love if you just basically puppeted me because I cannot do this.
Speaker: I'm not a good enough actor to do this.
Speaker: I'm not a good enough singer to sing this music.
Speaker: I'm not, I, I, I can't do this myself.
Speaker: So it would be great if your Holy Spirit just basically puppeted me.
Speaker: And I legitimately think sometimes that that happened, but
Speaker: Not like puppeted me, but like in the sense of for every Christian, the Holy Spirit works through them.
Speaker: I think he was faithful in that.
Speaker: So one of like just he was so present.
Speaker: So our lead was sick.
Speaker: Couldn't sing most of his solos, but our lead was also like.
Speaker: We were like asking him, do you need somebody to like cover your songs?
Speaker: And he was like, I'm just going to try and we'll just see what I can sing.
Speaker: And we were like, okay.
Speaker: And his voice was literally like this.
Speaker: And we were like, okay.
Speaker: And so we would get to a song and he would start a song and not be able to sing it.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: the cast would, somebody would jump in and we never had two people jump in at the same time.
Speaker: It's the smoothest I've ever seen anything ever covered because nobody talked about who was going to do what beforehand.
Speaker: The entire cast would just recognize he can't do this.
Speaker: Something else needs to happen for the show to keep going.
Speaker: And somebody would do it.
Speaker: And I think maybe only, I guess one time, I think we had somebody start something at the same time, but that was it.
Speaker: It looked like that was how the show was supposed to be.
Speaker: It was like craziness.
Speaker: And then everybody was just dying of sickness.
Speaker: So that was rough, too.
Speaker: There were nights where I got to the other end of the show because we had a stomach flu.
Speaker: And then our first weekend and our last weekend, we had a horrible cold.
Speaker: So for like a week and a half in shows, we had like either a stomach flu or a horrible cold that just...
Speaker: knocked us all down so there were nights i got to the end and i was like i don't know what i just did or how i did that i felt like i blacked out seriously sometimes that happens like i don't know if it's just i mean because i've heard that it happens with just normal theater things but sometimes that definitely happens playing jesus you're just like i don't know how i did it and then sometimes that's the show where everybody's like oh my goodness that was yep that was great and you're like
Speaker: One me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But thank you.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: That was true.
Speaker: I think my coolest moments of realizing the heart of God, there were some cool moments with like fellow cast members, um, just like loving them.
Speaker: And some of the things I talked about with like the triumphal entry and, and looking ahead and things like that.
Speaker: Um, um,
Speaker: And just seeing people and be like, I created them.
Speaker: I love them.
Speaker: I did realize all my reactions were wrong very early on.
Speaker: Because I was just like, I'm just going to have natural reactions.
Speaker: And man, the disciples are idiots and really annoying.
Speaker: And especially in Gothenburg, they do a lot of annoying things.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: they would do an annoying thing and I would get annoyed.
Speaker: And I was like, hang on a second.
Speaker: I do a lot of annoying things and Jesus never says he's annoyed with me.
Speaker: So I, I very early on, I was like, I need to have the opposite reaction that I'm naturally having.
Speaker: So I'd have my reaction.
Speaker: I'd be like, Nope, it's actually this.
Speaker: Um, but it was, it was weird.
Speaker: Cause I was like, every human reaction I have needs to be thrown out the window.
Speaker: So, cause there was like, there is one song, um,
Speaker: called We Gotta Get Organized, and Peter comes up to Jesus and is like, all right, so we got a plan.
Speaker: We're going to get you on TV.
Speaker: We've got somebody who's going to organize your political campaign.
Speaker: We're going to get you elected.
Speaker: It's going to be amazing, and we're going to sing a song about it.
Speaker: And then they sing this whole song about all the things and the PR things that Jesus needs to do, and I'm just sitting there like, we're literally about to go to Jerusalem for me to do the thing that I have to do.
Speaker: And my John reaction is just like,
Speaker: shut up yeah but i'm like jesus also probably does not enjoy that they're missing the point but it's not shut up it's more like i really wish that they understood yeah i'm gonna just bear with them let them get through this yeah and try and get the idea across and that's a very different reaction yeah i i
Speaker: had moments like that too where you're just like because like even just reading the scriptures you're just like these guys how did they not get it they were there with him he's like i'm about to die and they're like but can we sit at your right and left hand though when you're ruling so you're like you're like you're just like the human part of you is just like you're missing it but then like playing jesus you're just like
Speaker: I had to find in those moments.
Speaker: It's kind of like when you see a kid being dumb and you kind of find it adorable.
Speaker: So they come in and they have a good heart, but they're not doing it right.
Speaker: And that was my go-to kind of as Jesus.
Speaker: When they're like, oh, I'm going to do this thing.
Speaker: It's just like... Like when my Peter would come up, he'd be like...
Speaker: Like, even though they will all turn away, I will not turn away.
Speaker: And I'm just like, you will deny me three times.
Speaker: Like, that's kind of the energy.
Speaker: Like, it didn't go fully that.
Speaker: It was like there was still some sadness in it.
Speaker: But it was kind of a little bit of that, like, oh, buddy.
Speaker: No, you won't.
Speaker: That's cute.
Speaker: But like... Like the little kid that's like, I'm never going to get married.
Speaker: And you're like, no.
Speaker: Like eight or nine times out of ten.
Speaker: You're like, you probably will.
Speaker: Come on.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did you guys have trouble at all portraying like the angry, righteously indignant side of Jesus at all?
Speaker: I didn't because I love being angry on stage.
Speaker: So when I got to the... I loved the overturning the money changer scene.
Speaker: Because I just trashed the stage.
Speaker: And I was like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm having fun with this.
Speaker: I did have a hard time...
Speaker: The two I had a hard time with was Get Behind Me, Satan, because that was just so harsh at Peter.
Speaker: And now I get it more as an adult.
Speaker: But as a teenager, I was like, that's just such a sharp reaction.
Speaker: So I had a bit of a hard time motivating that.
Speaker: And I always struggled with our production put in something I don't know that I've ever seen any other...
Speaker: adaption do, which is when his family comes to visit him.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: And they say your mother and your brother are here.
Speaker: And it's after they've been thinking that Jesus is probably a little bit crazy.
Speaker: And he says, who is my mother and my brother?
Speaker: These are my mother and my brothers.
Speaker: That was really hard for me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That was a hard line.
Speaker: So that was probably the harder one for me is just that like radically different view of family and community that Jesus had.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I really enjoyed getting it.
Speaker: Because I feel like we associate anger so often so much with sin.
Speaker: And so how do we do that in a non-sinful way then?
Speaker: I think it was always very under control for me.
Speaker: I was playing Mr. Banks at the same time.
Speaker: So they have two very particular outburst moments in Jesus and Mr. Banks.
Speaker: And Mr. Banks, he becomes a bull in a china shop and destroys his family.
Speaker: But Jesus, I felt like it was all very focused and channeled.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This is the evil.
Speaker: And so it was like the one that like...
Speaker: loud boisterous like drunk angry vibe versus when you see someone get really angry and they just get completely still and quiet and you're like oh snap but it was it was like that and i grabbed a sledgehammer and i i didn't think i did anything with the sledgehammer and i just went and i just did the things and pushed people out and then i did a slight brush so it was all like very channeled
Speaker: Because I don't think he would let it run away and control him.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And there's like love behind it too because like you people are hurting people I love so much.
Speaker: And I love you and you're not getting it.
Speaker: And you're really dishonoring my father who deserves all honor and glory.
Speaker: And this is not right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There was one night we almost missed that because our Matthew skipped over it initially.
Speaker: So I went over and grabbed the sledgehammer and picked it up.
Speaker: And then he skipped to the after it.
Speaker: And then I put it down and walked back.
Speaker: And then he circled back and I went back and picked up the sledgehammer.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: We're going to do that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What about for you, Jordan?
Speaker: I didn't really...
Speaker: I was going to say, I don't think I necessarily got angry.
Speaker: You're after that part.
Speaker: Because it was the passion.
Speaker: But even, I feel like that's always the moment that we look at when we're like, see, Jesus got angry.
Speaker: But I feel like there are more moments, because like you were saying, get behind me, Satan, or just like that stuff.
Speaker: So, and I think the one moment I can think of is when, during the arrest of Jesus, I had this one moment where,
Speaker: where I necessarily didn't get angry.
Speaker: But I took authority.
Speaker: Because I was like, it's the part where I'm like, whom do you seek?
Speaker: And they're like, Jesus.
Speaker: And I'd say, I am he.
Speaker: And they'd all fall down.
Speaker: And so in that moment, I always just took a stronger stance.
Speaker: It was like,
Speaker: like asking like the Jesus that I had been, whom do you seek?
Speaker: I am he was just so much of a stronger, like I lowered my voice.
Speaker: I just, I did it kind of like when you're, you know, I use like the dad voice.
Speaker: You know, I was like, I am he, like, you know, just really projected.
Speaker: And I think that's as much as I was able to do with the thing that I had because yeah, just this, the section of Jesus's life that I was dealing with,
Speaker: Even the people that we would normally be like, oh, he should have been angry at that.
Speaker: Like, it was just, again, just so much compassion.
Speaker: Like... Yeah.
Speaker: The way I... The one friend I had to look at with compassion a lot because he played Judas and Pilot and, like, all these other characters and just...
Speaker: Every moment that it was like my instinct to be angry as a person of like, why are you doing this?
Speaker: I just had to like find the love and compassion in that of like, you know, pilots say like my friend always commented every time he'd say, what is truth?
Speaker: The look that I would give to him because originally I just like looked away or something and then I changed it to a look at him.
Speaker: And he's like that look you do just reads out.
Speaker: like so much heartbreak in that moment.
Speaker: And he's like, I can tell what you're doing.
Speaker: Like I can feel the...
Speaker: Like, I'm not saying anything, but he could feel, what is truth?
Speaker: Oh, you poor man.
Speaker: Like, just, ugh.
Speaker: And he's like, I can see the heartbreak in your eyes in that moment.
Speaker: And I'm like, that's cool.
Speaker: Good, because that's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker: But yeah, so I didn't really get a chance to fully play into the righteous indignation of Jesus.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: Yeah, kind of had my moments of like authority.
Speaker: Even that authority and confidence part is like a little difficult to me.
Speaker: Something I want to get better at in our rehearsal process because...
Speaker: I think – I know at least me and probably like most people have like a part of them who doesn't in normal circumstances think that people completely respect them or want to hear what they have to say.
Speaker: And so can maybe put on a little bit of like trepidation or fear in how they talk.
Speaker: or even how they hold their body.
Speaker: I think I need to get better at standing up straighter.
Speaker: Yes, you didn't know that.
Speaker: Let me give direction.
Speaker: Well, you've done that though.
Speaker: We had a moment, there's this wonderful moment where there's this big conflict on stage and you...
Speaker: initially were very like bendy and like almost pleading like please stop fighting yeah and all i had to say was just like you have authority be confident and stand up straight and immediately and it just carries so much power yeah that your posture really does because i i think i did that too in those moments where like i'm not necessarily like i have terrible posture the whole time but like okay this intrigues me i'm relaxed because he's you know fully human but like
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I was just like, I was just like, he's just, he's just there and he's just not, um, anything like in a way he's really special because he's Jesus.
Speaker: But you know, I, I always found it interesting.
Speaker: Humble too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I just found it very interesting the way people like,
Speaker: sometimes forget and like this, this is the thing I always try and remember about the life of Jesus is
Speaker: he, like it specifically says in the Bible that he didn't stand out.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like the thing that stood out about him was not how he looked.
Speaker: He didn't stick out like a sore thumb.
Speaker: He looked like, I had this joke that I made with somebody.
Speaker: I was like, Jesus was a five at best.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like he was, he was just your average looking guy.
Speaker: And like went so long unnoticed by like, there's that huge chunk where there's nothing about Jesus because he didn't do it.
Speaker: He just like lived life as a Hebrew.
Speaker: For most of his life.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then all of a sudden, the things he does and the heart that he had for people, that's how he stuck out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, like, that was, like, a whole thing of, like, I didn't necessarily, like...
Speaker: have an amazing posture and try to look like i was just like hanging there with my guys and then you know in the moments that i needed to be firm and strong or like when i'm revealing myself to the the the trial like when the when the priests are asking are you the son of man and i said son of god yes i am like in those moments like i'd straighten up as much as i could even though i'd just been beaten like i'm like
Speaker: I'm like exhausted and hunched over and I take that moment to regain my strength to say, yes, I am the son of God.
Speaker: I always had.
Speaker: I usually have a default posture for a character.
Speaker: That is like my fallback.
Speaker: It's a little bit of checkoff in there.
Speaker: Except instead of a gesture, it's like a posture type thing.
Speaker: I always had my hands on my hips because I had this vibe, not in like a sassy way.
Speaker: My Jesus was sassy.
Speaker: Southern sassy.
Speaker: Southern sassy Jesus.
Speaker: He's a southern bell.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I do declare that I am the son of God.
Speaker: But I had this image of a worker in my brain.
Speaker: The guy that you see that's always ready to jump in and get his hands dirty.
Speaker: If there's an issue, he's like, oh, I can fix that.
Speaker: And they're always at the go.
Speaker: He's always in a shovel with you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm ready to dig a hole anytime for you.
Speaker: A hole is not the solution to everything.
Speaker: But there was like a strength in that, but like a common strength too, where it was like you don't want it to be.
Speaker: He was a king, but he was, like you said, gentle and lowly.
Speaker: And anytime he saw a need, he jumped in.
Speaker: I hit the thing again.
Speaker: I think that portrayed well when you did it from my memory.
Speaker: I didn't see it, but I'm sure it did.
Speaker: I have pictures.
Speaker: I have a really crappy recording of two thirds of it.
Speaker: I'm really bummed I didn't see it, but I don't remember what I was doing.
Speaker: But it's funny that you brought up that you were like, it was during Mary Poppins.
Speaker: It was.
Speaker: I literally went from that and two weeks later was Mary Poppins.
Speaker: Were you in Mary Poppins?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Who were you?
Speaker: You were a plant.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Bush.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That was before we knew each other.
Speaker: Kind of.
Speaker: I didn't because I was a lead.
Speaker: Which is horrible for an introvert.
Speaker: And I was a bush.
Speaker: You're not even one of the president's bushes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I was a bush.
Speaker: I'm sure you were a great bush.
Speaker: I remember seeing you and I'd be like, I think that was Logan's younger brother.
Speaker: Oh, look, he's a bush.
Speaker: Yeah, that's when I was still Logan's younger brother.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Gross.
Speaker: the second bleep I have in the podcast is saying your brother's name.
Speaker: Who's the first?
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Sophia Medawar accidentally quoted somebody using the F-bomb.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: I think I meant this episode.
Speaker: Oh, in this episode?
Speaker: I missed it.
Speaker: Don't you remember when you dropped the F-bomb, Nate?
Speaker: I didn't think you noticed, though.
Speaker: It was so quick.
Speaker: I'm going to keep going.
Speaker: It's a really long episode, but I'm going to go.
Speaker: What were ways that your relationship with God or your own spiritual life was impacted by playing Jesus or is being impacted?
Speaker: How are you impacted by performance?
Speaker: By your performance?
Speaker: Although that's a good question too.
Speaker: I did want to make a comment about all this stuff that we're talking about.
Speaker: I love how right now in this moment, while you're going through this journey, I'm going through a separate journey of having to flip everything I did before.
Speaker: Yeah, we can talk about that.
Speaker: Any of the moments where you get to enjoy it.
Speaker: I didn't think it was going to be that hard.
Speaker: For most of it, I do pretty fine.
Speaker: There have been some moments where I'm like...
Speaker: I can't find that funny.
Speaker: Okay, my favorite.
Speaker: Oh, I can't.
Speaker: I don't want to spoil this joke.
Speaker: But there is one joke that's my favorite joke that I've crafted in the entire show.
Speaker: And it broke you.
Speaker: And I was like, yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But so for people who don't know, Jordan is playing a random ensemble member who also happens.
Speaker: Also happens to be.
Speaker: His only lines are tempting Jesus.
Speaker: Legally, he's only an ensemble member.
Speaker: Put those together.
Speaker: And what do you get?
Speaker: So that's been a very interesting character switch for you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, in some ways it's easy because I just had to focus on... With Jesus, I was just focusing on anything that's good and holy and pure.
Speaker: And then for ensemble number nine, I just had to do the opposite of that.
Speaker: Because there's just a profound lesson that I got taught one time about...
Speaker: because there are people who will be like i should like to like fight off the devil i should study the devil and like know how to like defend against that and this got one guy was like don't do that because you're gonna get into things that is gonna mess you with you and hurt you and i'm glad i heard that because then i got this role and i was like okay i know exactly how to attack this and his whole thing was like study god
Speaker: And then if you want to know about the devil, study God and it's just the opposite.
Speaker: Literally 1A is literally everything's opposite.
Speaker: God is love and he's pure and he's just.
Speaker: The devil is not pure and not lovely and not just.
Speaker: Just flip everything on its head.
Speaker: So just trying to have to portray that.
Speaker: There's still like instincts that are opposite.
Speaker: Like with Jesus, like the opposite instinct is there are times where I'm like, oh, you're so stupid.
Speaker: But then they're like, oh, no, I'm Jesus.
Speaker: I love you.
Speaker: But then there's times where I'm like, like, I want to be like, I am a decent human being, hopefully.
Speaker: god willing so um but then in the show it's just i just have to be the worst yeah i can't enjoy any good thing like the only times i find enjoyment is somebody in pain or in suffering which is rough because everybody else has some moments of enjoyment at least even our ensemble get to share in some of the joy that abounds in the show they're just humans yeah they're people and i'm like
Speaker: A being of just darkness.
Speaker: Which is so interesting putting that in Godspell.
Speaker: Because I think it's just... Don't sing it.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: You have to buy tickets to hear it.
Speaker: But it is... I was very intrigued when we were going to put you in.
Speaker: Because I hadn't thought about...
Speaker: just the radical change it would be to the show to put you in.
Speaker: In my brain, it was more just like, yeah, we're going to put together some of the show, and then the show will be incomplete, and then we'll get Jordan in, and then it will be complete.
Speaker: But what actually happened is we built this really fun, joyful show, and then we threw you in.
Speaker: And it's really different.
Speaker: I didn't think it was going to be a problem until I, because I didn't know the show, and I was like, yeah, okay, we can put in an ensemble number nine presence.
Speaker: and that classic biblical character classic biblical character and but then i get into the rehearsals and i hadn't really been doing much but i started like seeing what you guys were doing and i was like oh this is like a fun like i kind of thought it might be a little weird because i knew certain things about the shows it's usually like a troop of actors or like we're in a like a fun like newer setting and we're
Speaker: And then I'm hearing the songs, and it's all these parables, and they're doing fun, corny things, trying not to give away things.
Speaker: But if you know Gatswell, they're doing all these fun, zany character kind of things.
Speaker: And Jesus is just having a lot of fun with his disciples, which is so cool to see.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, yeah, they're just all having fun and enjoying each other's company.
Speaker: And then there's just this guy.
Speaker: I feel like I'm that dude at a party that you don't want around.
Speaker: But like, it's just so interesting, especially with Act 1.
Speaker: It's all just fun and joy and games and there's some heavy moments, but like, we come back to it and it's just, but there's just this serious presence that doesn't fit.
Speaker: Fully let up.
Speaker: Which I think works so well.
Speaker: It's a fly in our way.
Speaker: It just, it doesn't, it doesn't sit right.
Speaker: And that's the world.
Speaker: Yeah, that's the whole thing.
Speaker: um and i think it's just so interesting the and i and i appreciate that even inputting ensemble number nine into the show you didn't you didn't like put him through the lens of godspell like it kind of feels like he's from a different show yes yeah you're like like you like you definitely could have still put this character in there but like
Speaker: hammed him up and you're like oh he's ensemble number nine but you like we didn't we're like this is that's an appropriate like i'm trying to think of like ensemble member number nine like i feel like in some ways don't take this offense to any of this but i feel like god's felt like the rest of the cast is like living in like
Speaker: doing spongebob the musical yeah and i'm over here like uh like freaking the only one i can think oh is like sweeney todd but that's even a comedy so like but now like here i come being like king lear yeah king lear yeah yeah that's a good that's better it's like a shakespeare like it's coming in it's like it's like oh we're over here we're doing and i'm like
Speaker: is this a dagger which I see before me?
Speaker: But see, that's so great because there's these moments in the show that are like that and that should be like that, even if you're doing it from a secular perspective and not worrying about the resurrection or anything.
Speaker: Act two is even so much more dour than act one, even removing a spiritual aspect from it.
Speaker: So then having this kind of constant of the darkness that things dip in and out into, I think,
Speaker: ties it all together really well and gives the whole thing attention that I really wanted.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So we got really, that's fine.
Speaker: But that was, we can count that as a commercial break for, I don't have to record an ad now.
Speaker: And now to find out more, buy tickets at www.at the website you're on right now.
Speaker: Probably.
Speaker: Unless it's YouTube, he can't write text.
Speaker: It's a podcast app.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What was the actual question you were supposed to answer?
Speaker: The spiritual impact.
Speaker: Yeah, what's been the spiritual impact for you of playing Jesus?
Speaker: Do you want to go first?
Speaker: Oh, we've not got there at all yet?
Speaker: No, we haven't.
Speaker: We completely derailed into talking about our song.
Speaker: I don't remember how we got.
Speaker: I'll probably listen to this episode and go, what?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We're on like an hour and a half.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: This is going to be the longest episode I've ever done.
Speaker: I could do two episodes.
Speaker: That would be great.
Speaker: More content for me?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Come back for part two.
Speaker: In fact, the break will have been half an hour ago.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: So, yes.
Speaker: Will they return in the sequel?
Speaker: We're in the sequel right now.
Speaker: So, yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We just had that idea halfway through the second part.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Meta.
Speaker: I can go though.
Speaker: Okay, go ahead.
Speaker: I was going to go, but you can go ahead.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: If you got some.
Speaker: No, if you got some.
Speaker: So I'm hoping that spiritual impact will just keep on revving up for me with this since we're just still in it.
Speaker: But even just like walking through the scenes and reading from the book.
Speaker: I found that there's a difference from, you know, reading the Bible and you're usually reading quietly and reading Jesus' words.
Speaker: And for me, I've always struggled with... The Bible is written very kind of straightforward and there's not a whole lot of...
Speaker: like modern literature, just the like the putting in of oh, and their heart was going like this during this moment and this.
Speaker: There's some of that, but not as much.
Speaker: And it can be easy, at least for me, to read Jesus as rather severe.
Speaker: But when you have to read it out loud and you're thinking about this is the most loving person there is, it just changes the way the lines come out of your mouth.
Speaker: And it's like, oh, that is not how I instinctively would read these lines if I'm just reading the Bible by myself.
Speaker: But if this is a...
Speaker: person who's saying this who is so loving and so just and and real then oh he's maybe maybe he was saying this a little different than I thought
Speaker: And so that's a helpful thing to get to experience that.
Speaker: And yeah, I'm just, we're, we're, we're coming into off book next week and just the deeper we get into it, the more things will become natural and less worrying about blocking and stuff.
Speaker: And so are you saying you want to be less concerned about the word of God, Nate?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker: I'm saying I want it.
Speaker: That sounds like a heresy reason for me to kick him out right before we open and need to step in.
Speaker: Oh, for all shows, like I kind of get to know the character better towards the end.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Of it.
Speaker: I often annoy directors because as soon as I possibly think I can try and get off book, I try.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: And everybody else has a script in their hand.
Speaker: Like, John, why?
Speaker: We have...
Speaker: And then, uh, usually it's just a little bit too early.
Speaker: Like John, get your script back.
Speaker: I'm like, okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I'm wanting like the things that Jesus is doing to, I want to apply them to Mike.
Speaker: This is how Jesus feels about you, Nate.
Speaker: And, and this is how, this is how he is.
Speaker: And so this is how maybe you should treat people and think about people.
Speaker: And so I'm just wanting more of that.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Jordan.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Yeah, it's very similar to that of how it affected me was just, like I said, focusing on compassion, just realizing the need for that in my life with others and also accepting compassion from others.
Speaker: And just seeing the world very differently and kind of just seeing people differently as like...
Speaker: loved by Jesus so much more.
Speaker: Obviously, I love people the way that we're supposed to, but that just became so much more real.
Speaker: I think the other aspect that really grew was just a desire to know Jesus even more and deeper, because I feel like we can fall into that trap of like,
Speaker: I think I know Jesus pretty well.
Speaker: Like I've read the Bible enough.
Speaker: I get it.
Speaker: But then just like you were saying, like those words just become so more real.
Speaker: And like, um, especially with a show where it's like, it's just straight up scripture.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, just being able to, uh,
Speaker: just like that, just like sitting in scripture like that was just so powerful, um, and eyeopening in that area.
Speaker: And then I think the last, the last thing that I thought of was, um, I think probably was the start or still very early on in this journey.
Speaker: It's still a journey I'm, I'm,
Speaker: not necessarily struggling with now, but it's, it's something that the Lord is still teaching me and still working on me and is just, um, trusting his timing and his plan and his like just surrendering things.
Speaker: Um, because with the show, like playing Jesus, um,
Speaker: Like I had my reservations, but I went in and I did the work and I was being a good actor, being a smart actor and doing what I felt like I needed to do.
Speaker: And then we get to the time where we're opening, we're needing to do shows.
Speaker: And I don't know if you guys have felt this way with playing Jesus, but I feel like when you're playing Jesus, it's much worse than any other character.
Speaker: Because sometimes you'll feel this with other characters, but I feel like with Jesus, it's even more where you're like,
Speaker: no, I'm not ready.
Speaker: Like I haven't gotten there yet.
Speaker: Like I haven't gotten to where I need to be.
Speaker: And I definitely felt that of like, I was like, I know all the words.
Speaker: I know the intentions I'm supposed to be playing.
Speaker: I know how this is supposed to go.
Speaker: But I'm like, I just don't feel like I'm doing enough.
Speaker: I had that a lot in like reverse because afterwards I did Mary Poppins and I felt like even just at the end of getting past Mary Poppins, I was like, I feel like I'm like,
Speaker: even already a much better actor than I was in Cotton Patch.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm like, ah, already.
Speaker: That's the, it's already not my best work.
Speaker: That's, I think one of the hard things as an actor is I feel like every show you're just like, oh man, if I had known this last show, it would have been so much better.
Speaker: Um, so that's a downfall, but just one of the beautiful things was like, sadly it didn't start right away for performances for this.
Speaker: But I finally came to this realization of like, I don't need it to be perfect because I can't be perfect.
Speaker: What I can do is go out there and do my best, do it for the Lord.
Speaker: And I kind of had this prayer that I would pray before each show to kind of calm my nerves about playing Jesus.
Speaker: And it was just like, just praying for the Lord to fill me with his spirit.
Speaker: working on like just like I'd be like I give this performance to you whatever happens whatever line flubs whatever scratchy notes whatever wrong notes happen
Speaker: I just want to be a reflection of you.
Speaker: I know I can't be a copy or a clone, but I just want to be a reflective surface to just reflect you to the audience and use whatever happens tonight to speak to people, to touch hearts, to reach people.
Speaker: um the people in the audience and that that helped a lot um because even some of my most often my worst nights performance aspect would be the nights where people were just so touched and like that's just like because yeah and and even some of the nights that like i would black out like i'd some like i'd black out until i made a wrong note or said it said something kind of funny and
Speaker: And then that pulled me out of it.
Speaker: I was like, oh, no.
Speaker: And then I was just like, Lord, use it.
Speaker: And then, you know, I'd get done.
Speaker: And, you know, just seeing people that sometimes it's it was the thing of like, oh, I didn't even notice.
Speaker: Or sometimes they would just see in that.
Speaker: the real humanness and that would just make Jesus more human to people.
Speaker: Jesus wasn't a perfect actor either.
Speaker: This is great.
Speaker: He flubbed his parables all the time.
Speaker: I think his parables were perfect.
Speaker: I think his timing was probably amazing.
Speaker: Probably the best comedic timing ever.
Speaker: He's probably like... He's the creator of time.
Speaker: And you know what happened?
Speaker: You know what happened to the prodigal son?
Speaker: He like...
Speaker: He wanted you with a pig's egg.
Speaker: Whoa!
Speaker: Perfect timing.
Speaker: That is something that was, I think, really profound for me, though, and has been profound.
Speaker: A, I was super... All of us were really sick, so, like, the story that I told was, like, our cast was clearly weak and struggling throughout the show.
Speaker: But then you're thinking about portraying Jesus, and as we've all said, you can't do that perfect.
Speaker: So I think it's a really crisp, hard...
Speaker: something of what's the word I'm trying to think of I don't know it's a crisp hard cracker that I don't know it's the body of Christ it's more than a cracker Nick it's more than a cracker it really hits you with the reality
Speaker: Of, in my weakness, you are strong.
Speaker: We cannot, we never can do what he wants to accomplish through the presence of his son or like the words of his son ourselves.
Speaker: But if we just open our hands and trust him in our weakness and accept, I will not do what I want or need to do, but in God's grace, he can get me there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel like this kind of thing, it makes me think of your last podcast episode, which you've all heard before.
Speaker: I don't need to recap it.
Speaker: Unless you have it.
Speaker: Unless you have it.
Speaker: Usually the ones that are just me don't do as well.
Speaker: So they may not.
Speaker: You should listen to it, guys.
Speaker: It was really helpful to me.
Speaker: One of the things John talked about was doing art with God.
Speaker: And I think that this, the role of playing Jesus is just like, okay, you really need to kind of be doing it with God.
Speaker: And so it forces you into that place, which is beautiful.
Speaker: Like you've talked about Jordan and, um,
Speaker: And yeah, just like, okay, maybe we should have this kind of be for other things we do too.
Speaker: That, okay, if anything good happens, it was God in that too, even if you're not playing Jesus.
Speaker: And then bring it out further, even if you're not acting in a show, but you're just trying to go through life.
Speaker: Nothing that we can do will work on our own.
Speaker: And if it works out, it's because God was in that and he wants to be in all of the moments of life with us.
Speaker: Because essentially we're all always kind of playing Jesus as like little Christs.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we're not going to do it perfectly.
Speaker: But that doesn't mean he's going to leave us or be disappointed or mad at us because we're not doing it perfectly.
Speaker: We just need to do it with him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The best we... I just realized, I don't think it still is, but I thought it was when you said Little Christ because that used to be in my Instagram bio.
Speaker: It was Lil Christ.
Speaker: Lil Christ.
Speaker: Uh-huh.
Speaker: Like L-I-L?
Speaker: Like L-I-L.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Like Lil Christ.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: And that's good.
Speaker: I made my thing public for acting.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I was like, that's a little unprofessional.
Speaker: Follower of Jesus Christ.
Speaker: That's better.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: But yeah.
Speaker: Noah, what you were saying, as we've all been saying about how much we need the spirit to portray Jesus correctly, it'd be really interesting to hear from non-believers who have portrayed Jesus.
Speaker: Like how they... Let me call Willem Dafoe.
Speaker: He's my other famous actor on speed dial.
Speaker: Let's just find that out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Willem Dafoe is a five at best.
Speaker: Ah!
Speaker: Of all the men that have portrayed Jesus, Willem Dafoe may be best captures the physical look of Jesus.
Speaker: Though, I do love looking at Willem Dafoe.
Speaker: He's just so interesting.
Speaker: And his face is so engaged.
Speaker: It's so engaged.
Speaker: So not a hive.
Speaker: So he did stand out, so he wouldn't look at Jesus.
Speaker: That is interesting.
Speaker: We'll come back next week when we decide who would play good Jesus.
Speaker: We're going to give you the perfect Jesus casting right here, right now.
Speaker: Because we've clearly stated several times that it's not the three of us.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That does interest me a lot.
Speaker: There's a lot of times I'm watching a show either about Jesus.
Speaker: Oh, man.
Speaker: Okay, so when... Can I say a sentence?
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: Go for it.
Speaker: You have a podcast, so I sure hope so.
Speaker: Um, one of the times, I think it was the third time I saw Godspell was at a high school.
Speaker: Um, and somebody who went to my church was the musical director, not the music, was the theater director there.
Speaker: Um, and it was a huge cast.
Speaker: It was like 30, 40 something cast.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: It was huge.
Speaker: They had a giant ensemble.
Speaker: That was what made me think, Oh, we could do something with the background characters in this.
Speaker: Um, um,
Speaker: But they put the resurrection back in and I knew the heart of the director and it overflowed the spirit of the gospel, even in this weird, crazy, wacky.
Speaker: It almost felt like Seussical in its colors and design.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Like, not necessarily in the makeup, but just in it.
Speaker: I was like, I feel like I'm in a Dr. Seuss world.
Speaker: It was crazy.
Speaker: Now I'm just picturing it and it's interesting.
Speaker: But one fish, two fish, thousands of fish.
Speaker: Ha ha ha!
Speaker: I was going more along the lines of like the opening number instead of Seuss.
Speaker: I was like, God, God, God, God.
Speaker: Like, I was like, oh, okay, that's all the things you believe.
Speaker: All the things you believe if you're willing to try.
Speaker: Think of man rising from the dead.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Beautiful city.
Speaker: City.
Speaker: City.
Speaker: City.
Speaker: But I was watching it and I was like, the gospel is overflowing.
Speaker: Does the kid who's playing Jesus...
Speaker: realize that and I don't know if and I like went up and I was like did you interrogate him I didn't interrogate him did you realize son I just walked up to him and I was like boy do you understand did a Harrison Ford point you a Christian but I did I did go up to him afterwards and say I've played that role I know how profound and
Speaker: important it is and it means a lot to me.
Speaker: Jesus means a lot to me and you did very good.
Speaker: And he just kind of gave me like a stock like thank you I've done a show type answer.
Speaker: I was like that's a little sad.
Speaker: But I was like
Speaker: And I frequently wonder that when people do shows that are so baked in the Christian faith.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's several that I've seen where I'm like, do you understand the profound, eternal, divine message that's coming through this?
Speaker: And if you don't, what are you experiencing right now?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it often breaks my heart because I think sometimes people are like, this is a great show.
Speaker: And it means, you know, love, which is a good thing or something else.
Speaker: But there's just...
Speaker: such a deeper richer truth that's waiting for people to find yeah it's interesting when biblical stories get turned into shows that are secular because you're like yeah there's truth in that but also like
Speaker: Like there's just a shoot.
Speaker: And this may just be because of like all my experiences with sight and sound shows, which are like Bible stories written by Christians that are like, there's specific lessons that they're honing in on the teaching as opposed to like Jesus Christ Superstar or Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor or Godspell.
Speaker: But there's like, there's things in those.
Speaker: My show that's avoiding the truth.
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, but like, at least with like Godspell, there's like a clear, like, like, and they make it clear that like, this is a show about community.
Speaker: That's what we're trying to like hone in on.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But then like,
Speaker: I mean, maybe there is, but I don't know of one in Jesus Christ Superstar other than them being like, let's sing super high notes and... Make Judas empathetic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Make people feel bad for Judas.
Speaker: Which is valid.
Speaker: Judas is sad.
Speaker: But, like, I guess I'm searing in on something that's not even Jesus.
Speaker: You may not want to include this in a Jesus podcast, but, like, with Joseph, I was just thinking about it, like, when people do Joseph, like, yeah, you get the story of Joseph, but, like,
Speaker: you can't really hone in on any like real lessons there.
Speaker: It's just like, here's the story.
Speaker: But like, nobody really touches on the lessons that are learned.
Speaker: How, how Joseph is like pointing to Jesus the whole time.
Speaker: Don't you realize that lesson is any dream will do.
Speaker: What does that even mean?
Speaker: It's kind of sad.
Speaker: It's a beautiful song, but also like, any dream will do.
Speaker: Just pick a dream that might be or grab it and go.
Speaker: Did we just say the same thing?
Speaker: We're starting to get in sync as Jesus actors.
Speaker: I've seen Joseph three times, and two times it was done by believers.
Speaker: And when I saw those ones, I was like, all right, cool.
Speaker: I didn't hate it.
Speaker: I had fun with it.
Speaker: I mean, I've seen Joseph...
Speaker: Well, I've seen Joseph once.
Speaker: I've done Lights for Joseph once.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so that means I've seen it thousands of times.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And one was by a believer and one wasn't.
Speaker: One was more show-stopping and I kind of enjoyed it a little bit more.
Speaker: And then one, I was like, oh, good.
Speaker: You found, like, some message in this.
Speaker: Like, you found a way to use this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is great.
Speaker: And that's great as believers is, like, finding a way.
Speaker: And even in the show-stopping non-Christian one, like...
Speaker: there is still truth in that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Which is, which is why I'm not necessarily totally against the people writing Bible musicals.
Speaker: I just go watch them and I'm like, you kind of missed it though.
Speaker: Like, isn't that, you didn't, you didn't get it.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Cause it's like the, the wisdom of God is foolishness to man.
Speaker: And the foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man.
Speaker: And no man can come unto God unless the spirit draws him.
Speaker: And it's just like,
Speaker: That seems like, but it's right there in the book, in the Bible.
Speaker: You can just read what it's about, and yet they still just can't get it.
Speaker: Although sometimes, like Prince of Egypt is an example of some time where it nails that on the head.
Speaker: Yeah, but there's still even some things in that where they're like, okay, yeah, you didn't completely get it, or you're trying to stray away from the stuff.
Speaker: But then what's great is in stories that are not Bible stories, I've noticed it more...
Speaker: Once I realized it, I now look for it in secular musicals.
Speaker: Because the Bible is the greatest story ever told.
Speaker: And Jesus has his hand in everything.
Speaker: You can always go to the default.
Speaker: It's about redemption.
Speaker: That's a biblical theme.
Speaker: But there are some shows where now that I've opened up my eyes to it, I'm like...
Speaker: They didn't even know it.
Speaker: And this is a biblical tale.
Speaker: Yeah, it's about man-eating plants, but there's truth in this.
Speaker: And that's just the amazing thing of still being able to see God using things that we would be like, oh, he can't use that.
Speaker: And he's like, let me prove you wrong.
Speaker: Continue to be bigger than what you can imagine.
Speaker: Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker: I guess we should wrap it up because we're nearing two hours.
Speaker: So longest episode.
Speaker: Well, longest two episodes, I guess.
Speaker: But we were joking before the podcast started.
Speaker: The normalest two episodes.
Speaker: What an average length for two episodes.
Speaker: Shoot, that means you're still ahead.
Speaker: But as far as like, so what we were talking about before the podcast started.
Speaker: We'll just split it into two.
Speaker: No, then he's still ahead.
Speaker: Wait, is he?
Speaker: No, yeah, he is.
Speaker: We were sharing before the episode that Nate has now been my most frequent recurring guest because I wasn't expecting to cast him as Jesus and then I didn't.
Speaker: It's been an amazing choice.
Speaker: He wasn't expecting it.
Speaker: He wasn't thinking about it at all.
Speaker: He knew I was auditioning.
Speaker: Nate walks in and he's just like, oh, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, you sure you want to do this?
Speaker: I think there's a sheep that we're going to be in the show.
Speaker: You might be able to be a thin sheep.
Speaker: Ensemble number nine, actually.
Speaker: No, that's not really true.
Speaker: Literally, that's true?
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So there was competition.
Speaker: I was like, I feel like I'm the only one.
Speaker: Well, for years, I've wanted to do this.
Speaker: And one of the people that I talked to about this a lot was Nate.
Speaker: And I told him about my entire concept of that.
Speaker: And he was like, that's a pretty cool concept.
Speaker: And I was like, I feel like you would do really good at that.
Speaker: So in the back of my head.
Speaker: And I'm like, that'd be cool to play Jesus.
Speaker: I know he wants me to be on someone number nine.
Speaker: That'd be cool too.
Speaker: We'll just swap roles over there.
Speaker: We could do that.
Speaker: I don't know the show at all, but we'll just swap.
Speaker: Every night, that'd be like that Frankenstein thing that Benedict did.
Speaker: Or like Waiting for Godot.
Speaker: Was that right?
Speaker: Yeah, they've done that before.
Speaker: I don't know Godspell at all.
Speaker: I'll just wing it though.
Speaker: You have to stop.
Speaker: It's basically improv.
Speaker: Scripture and improv.
Speaker: Sweet.
Speaker: I'm great at both of them.
Speaker: um why does i say oh so the joke that i'm explaining to our audience is that nate's my most recurring guest now and then jordan was really sad that nate is ahead of him so but now jordan you do have more like time on the podcast than anybody else other than me and nate so that's something
Speaker: It's not enough.
Speaker: It's not enough.
Speaker: I just gotta figure out another topic to talk to you.
Speaker: I think maybe that ensemble member number nine-ish greed is starting to... What are you talking about?
Speaker: How scared?
Speaker: Thank you guys for coming on the podcast again.
Speaker: It's been a really great chat with you guys.
Speaker: Oh, it's been awesome.
Speaker: Thanks for having us.
