Transcript
Speaker: Hey friends, welcome back to a surprise episode of Artists of the Way.
Speaker: I'm John, the host.
Speaker: Today, it's a surprise episode with the creative team of Godspell.
Speaker: I thought it would be cool in the week leading up to our opening, just to have a conversation with these guys, talk about what they love about the show, what's important to them, what they've enjoyed about the process.
Speaker: So we're inviting on our assistant director, Anna Eaton.
Speaker: Our music director, Abby Plesher, and our choreographer, Ellie Knobloch, along with myself, just to talk a little bit about the show.
Speaker: It's a wonderful discussion, an extra long episode, so surprise episode and a longer episode, so you're getting...
Speaker: You're getting your full of artists of the way this week.
Speaker: This will be our last episode before we take a month-long break through the month of August, and then we'll jump back in in September with some more episodes.
Speaker: But it's been a wonderful journey to get to Godspell.
Speaker: I'd love to see all of you guys come out and see it, and I can't wait to share with you some of my heart and some of our team's heart behind this show.
Speaker: So how are the three of you guys doing today?
Speaker: Good!
Speaker: Oh, we're starting right now.
Speaker: I'm not really... I had something right now.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm doing great.
Speaker: I'm doing okay.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: I'm good.
Speaker: Sweet.
Speaker: Goods all around.
Speaker: So this episode's a little bit different from normal episodes because I...
Speaker: kind of want to focus in on the experience with Godspell.
Speaker: Normally I ask two questions, which is what are you working on right now and how's God using art in your life?
Speaker: The what are you working on question is going to be like the whole episode.
Speaker: So I guess I didn't, I didn't warn you guys about this question, but I'll ask it and we'll see if it goes well.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: What are some ways that you guys feel like God's using art in your life right now?
Speaker: Either as you create it, or as you teach it, or as you take it in.
Speaker: Specifically pertaining to Godspell?
Speaker: Just in general.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I...
Speaker: I usually, I listen to so much musical theater, just like on a regular basis.
Speaker: And I've been listening to Godspell so much at like rehearsals.
Speaker: I'm like, I cannot listen to anything else that sounds like this.
Speaker: And not that I don't usually listen to worship music, but I've been listening to a lot more worship music just because it's like, that's my next go-to.
Speaker: And then like my third is usually like Christian rap and that's my whole Spotify.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: It was like those three.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: It's just been a lot of like, uh, I don't know.
Speaker: It's, it's hard for me to say worship music is art, but I guess it is.
Speaker: Well, I mean it is, but it's, it's a different thing and it's, it's intentionally made to be like,
Speaker: a hand of God in your life.
Speaker: But it's been nice to kind of like, instead of kind of zoning out on my way to work and having something to like listen to and think about it like throughout the day and stuff.
Speaker: I should do this.
Speaker: Well, there's a reason that there's worship music and not like worship speeches.
Speaker: Because... Yeah.
Speaker: Isn't that sermons?
Speaker: That's not the same thing.
Speaker: No, it's not.
Speaker: Like you don't feel as worshipful during a sermon because you're learning...
Speaker: in a different mode.
Speaker: Whereas worship, I feel like it needs kind of that artistic outlet.
Speaker: Not necessarily, but it accesses a different part of you, like a different part of your spirit, I feel like.
Speaker: I do think to jump off that a little bit, I don't want to do this, talk about it too much.
Speaker: No, I mean like my thing, because I'm about to say something.
Speaker: I think the podcast has heard before.
Speaker: But I do think artistically worded
Speaker: prayers or speeches can be because I found in the Anglican church now as I've just been speaking things, the like part of me that's an artist as an actor is able to worship in the truth of the words that I'm saying and the journey that that takes my soul on.
Speaker: which is very interesting it's very similar to poetry almost it is a speech it's like a spoken performance but it is art at the same time another thing is like I don't know have you guys ever heard of the street lights app no I don't think so yeah it's I think they're based in Chicago and it's just like a word for word reading of
Speaker: the Bible, but they do it to like, like music and soundscapes and like speak it in rhythm.
Speaker: But it's like, it's all the, like they don't change any of the words so that it like rhymes or anything like that.
Speaker: Like it's, it's, I think they do the NLT.
Speaker: I'm going to be your commercial buddy.
Speaker: What was it called?
Speaker: That's streetlights.
Speaker: Anywhere you get your apps.
Speaker: But that's very nice.
Speaker: Cause sometimes like, I'm not always the best at like sitting down and focusing on like reading my Bible, but then like, yeah,
Speaker: to listen to the guy on the bible apps like yeah john 11 and there's this weird like sort of audio yeah and so this is just like just engaging enough that like turns on a different part of my brain but it's still like the word of god yeah that's awesome that's it for me ellie or abby any thoughts on how god's using art right now
Speaker: I'd say similar to Anna.
Speaker: Like I've been like when I work on musical theater a lot, like most of my year.
Speaker: And I love it.
Speaker: It's like one of my absolute favorite things.
Speaker: But every once in a while I'm like, I need to not.
Speaker: And so then I'll put on, yeah, like worship music or oftentimes I'll...
Speaker: Because my brain has a very hard time shutting off and focusing on when I'm either reading my Bible or praying.
Speaker: I do a prayer journal, so I'll write it out.
Speaker: And I do it at the end of the day.
Speaker: A lot of people do their Bible time in the morning, and I do mine at night.
Speaker: And my brain is always, especially after rehearsal, that I'm just like, oh, I can't stop thinking.
Speaker: about it yeah um and so then i like i have a playlist of like worship music and i'll put that on while i do my um like either praying or reading my bible and that that helps me focus because then even like what i'm like consciously thinking about which is either like what i'm writing or what i'm reading then even my subconscious is listening to the music so the white noise yeah also yeah yeah
Speaker: is without it yeah the only thing that's coming to mind for me right now is having nate doing the role of jesus and of course like we go home and talk about that and stuff if you don't know nate is ellie's husband yes he's on the last episode of the podcast question mark he's on every other episode of the podcast
Speaker: He is my most frequent guest now.
Speaker: I think, yeah, he's been on three times.
Speaker: For you all that have not gone back in the archives, I think it's the second episode you're on together.
Speaker: Yes, we are.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: They weren't pregnant, so I hope so.
Speaker: I honestly couldn't remember how long ago that was.
Speaker: I was like, maybe they were still just engaged.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Sorry, we interrupted you.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: But Nate is Jesus.
Speaker: All relevant.
Speaker: All relevant information.
Speaker: Yes, but with Nate as Jesus, it's been interesting just kind of talking...
Speaker: in a different way about who Jesus is and about like how to portray him and how there's a little bit of him in each of us.
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: Yeah, and so just that interesting thing about theater where you have to bring a part of yourself into the show.
Speaker: And I think you do that even no matter what you're doing.
Speaker: Like if you're doing music or if you're directing, you bring a part of yourself to the show.
Speaker: And it becomes way more meaningful and way more impactful if you are...
Speaker: bringing the Jesus part of you.
Speaker: That sounds right.
Speaker: Rather than just the worldly part of you or the flesh part of you or the whatever.
Speaker: And you don't have to
Speaker: create something out of nothing you can pull from within and not in like that weird modern way of like everything you need is inside of you but the holy spirit is inside of you and so it is true but in a different way for a christian that's awesome cool um
Speaker: So let's focus, shift to Godspell now.
Speaker: Would you guys go around, we'll start with Anna, and share for our listeners who you are and what you're doing in the show.
Speaker: Yeah, we'll start with you.
Speaker: Okay, my name is Anna, and I am assistant directing.
Speaker: Do you want to know anything else about me?
Speaker: Why did you want an assistant director?
Speaker: Oh, good question.
Speaker: Because you haven't done it before.
Speaker: I haven't done it before.
Speaker: I did a little bit of theater when I was younger.
Speaker: I did a lot more in middle school and elementary, and then...
Speaker: I didn't really.
Speaker: I love musical theater in an experiential, intellectual way.
Speaker: But I think it was talking to you, and you had—we talk about a lot of different things, just because we're cousins.
Speaker: And you were like, hey, can we get coffee?
Speaker: I want to talk about some stuff.
Speaker: And you kind of laid out your vision for the show and had different questions and stuff.
Speaker: And were like, I'd love to bounce some ideas off of you and think about that.
Speaker: And I was like, sure, that sounds like a great time.
Speaker: And it was a really good conversation.
Speaker: We had a lot of fun talking about it.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, that's very interesting.
Speaker: Because I didn't really know a lot about it, the show.
Speaker: I hadn't seen a staged production of it.
Speaker: And I hadn't seen the movie.
Speaker: Because I had been told a long time ago not to.
Speaker: But I think that's just because it's very sad.
Speaker: Aunt Sheila being like, this show that your aunt loves.
Speaker: Don't watch the movies.
Speaker: No, I don't believe it was my mother.
Speaker: I think it was somebody who was just like, well, you've got to see the show.
Speaker: The movie is not as good.
Speaker: You know, like that sort of thing.
Speaker: That is it.
Speaker: And I think it's just because it was the 70s and the movies were kind of,
Speaker: It was stylistically pretty.
Speaker: It's a very 70s movie.
Speaker: Well, and different people that do God's Belt.
Speaker: It can be done very reverently or very irreverently.
Speaker: So you have to be careful which one you see for sure.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And I didn't, I don't think I'd even heard any of the music for it.
Speaker: And so you were having to explain to me, it's like, oh, so this is the show and then this is my vision for it.
Speaker: And I, yeah, so I enjoyed that conversation.
Speaker: I was like, great, tell me when you actually do it and I'll come see it.
Speaker: And this was like August last year.
Speaker: You were like in pre-pre-production.
Speaker: You were still just like getting... Seeing if it could happen.
Speaker: Your ducks in a row type of a thing of like, okay, well, what would that cost and how would I do that and that sort of thing.
Speaker: And I was like, great, see ya.
Speaker: And see ya Thanksgiving.
Speaker: And then you texted me like two days later and was like, hey, I'm having a really hard time finding an assistant director who's on board with my vision.
Speaker: And I was like...
Speaker: I can't imagine why.
Speaker: Which we can talk about if you want to.
Speaker: But you're like, would you like to do it?
Speaker: And I was just like, that would be really
Speaker: challenging and different and kind of a creative outlet I don't really have.
Speaker: I work as a paramedic right now and that's just very, there's a huge emotional piece to that but it's not artistic at all.
Speaker: And I've never really like, I wasn't really sure if I was artistic.
Speaker: Until I was like, I would love to, but I'm also like an adult with a mortgage now.
Speaker: So like I. Once you get that, you're no longer artistic.
Speaker: Well, no, but it's like I, it wasn't something I was going to really seek out because it would, it would be a hobby, right?
Speaker: Like I, I definitely was never going to be like my career of any kind.
Speaker: And so it was something that I'm like, oh, maybe I'll, you know, run lights for master arts again at some point.
Speaker: Cause I'd done that a couple of times and yeah.
Speaker: I was like, that'll be fun, and I'll get a free ticket.
Speaker: Dope.
Speaker: But it's been really cool.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Sweet.
Speaker: I'm on my necks for skipping you.
Speaker: If you don't know me, I'm John.
Speaker: I'm the host, and I'm the director, and I decided to do all this madness.
Speaker: Perfect.
Speaker: He let us all come into his home and sit together.
Speaker: At this very, very small table.
Speaker: But on camera, it looks great.
Speaker: Does it?
Speaker: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: I haven't seen it on camera.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Oh my goodness, I'm sorry.
Speaker: Are we saying our names as well?
Speaker: Yeah, I forgot the questions.
Speaker: Who are you and what are you doing?
Speaker: If you want to take who are you in a really existential way, I guess we could go there.
Speaker: But you could just stick with your name.
Speaker: Don't make me go there.
Speaker: Start singing, who am I?
Speaker: Too many songs called Who Am I. That's true.
Speaker: Okay, to get back to the question.
Speaker: Yeah, sorry.
Speaker: I'm Ellie, and I'm the choreographer.
Speaker: And this is the first show that I've choreographed.
Speaker: So I've done ballet since I was nine and made the pretty smooth transition into becoming a ballet teacher.
Speaker: And in most realms, that includes at least a little bit of choreography.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Because you're at least putting something on the little kids so that they can show their parents they learned something.
Speaker: And so I've done bits of that everywhere from teaching two-year-olds to dance for a minute to a princess song.
Speaker: To teaching high schoolers how to make a dance worth paying to sing.
Speaker: So a little bit of a range there.
Speaker: But that was all ballet.
Speaker: And I've been in musical theater.
Speaker: I know what it's like, but I have never had an opportunity to choreograph a theater show before.
Speaker: So it's been a lot to take on.
Speaker: Like, I don't have an assistant choreographer.
Speaker: I'm doing all of it.
Speaker: Unless you want to count Baron as your assistant choreographer.
Speaker: He technically will be listed.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: We discussed this, that Baron, Ellie's one-year-old, will be listed as assistant choreographer.
Speaker: He's come to every rehearsal with him.
Speaker: He has, and he's also danced through many of those.
Speaker: So come see the excellent work of this one-year-old prodigy who's assistant choreographer.
Speaker: He was really helping them with their clapping.
Speaker: He was.
Speaker: Getting them on beat.
Speaker: It's very on beat.
Speaker: It's like about a half beat after Baron goes,
Speaker: But at least he's consistent with that half beat.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: He knows there's a beat somewhere in there.
Speaker: Somewhere.
Speaker: I'll find it.
Speaker: And he found the grace note.
Speaker: But yes, and so it's been really cool.
Speaker: I wanted to be involved, first of all, to have the opportunity to choreograph a show because I love musical theater.
Speaker: And so that's been really cool.
Speaker: I trusted you and I trusted your vision for it because, yeah, I mean, you can do God's Bill so many different ways that it's a little like when you look at what's out there, it's like, do I want to be a part of this or do I not want to be a part of this?
Speaker: But I think also you sent me a... A bootleg.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There was one that I was like, this is kind of close to... Yeah.
Speaker: And I could tell that they were at least being fairly respectful to the actual story, which was good, but the choreography was crap.
Speaker: And I was like, I can do better.
Speaker: Most filmed version of any show on the internet, the choreography is bad.
Speaker: There were so many that I found that were just like in a church and I was like, I'm glad you're doing this for a Sunday morning, but it is a little painful to watch you guys walk down the aisle and try and sing Tower of Babel on a Sunday morning with a bad sound system on a carpeted stage.
Speaker: The music itself is so gorgeous.
Speaker: If you don't do it justice, and that includes the dancing, like it really does.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: then it's just so sad because you had a great thing to work with and you just skipped maybe.
Speaker: Well, and I feel like you had to around.
Speaker: Yeah, I feel like that's what's hard about this show is because it is so vocally demanding.
Speaker: Like everybody is on stage the whole time.
Speaker: Everybody sings every show.
Speaker: I feel like a lot of times productions of this show, they're like, well, since singing is so hard, we just won't make their dancing that hard.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Which is nice.
Speaker: And I have had to think about that, right?
Speaker: Like, I'm not having them leap across the stage or run up and down.
Speaker: Except for maybe once.
Speaker: Well.
Speaker: But you have to come see to find out.
Speaker: Oh, wait.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: But yeah, so it is a challenge to combine those things, to combine difficult vocals with something that's actually interesting and engaging to watch.
Speaker: Especially when you're dealing with musical theater people, and usually dance is not their strongest part, because then they'd be in the dance world.
Speaker: Especially people who come out for Godspell are usually going to be more singers than dancers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's a balance, though.
Speaker: I feel like you...
Speaker: Struck?
Speaker: Yeah, struck really well.
Speaker: And even watching you work with them as they learn the songs vocally, and then you're like, okay, now we're going to run this one.
Speaker: And someone will be like, hey, so I'm going to sing a crazy high note for a really long time.
Speaker: Do I have to be running in a circle?
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: And be like, no, what we're going to have you do is you're going to stand over here.
Speaker: You're going to do this, and you're going to kind of sway.
Speaker: But then it still looks cool.
Speaker: It's not like, yes, you can go stand on the stairs and just sit there so that you can get good breath control.
Speaker: It's a bounce.
Speaker: Yeah, because in that particular song, she still dances a lot.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But there's certain moments where it's like,
Speaker: Okay, in this moment, now that the ensemble is singing a lot more, she can be more over here and doing a little bit less.
Speaker: And then at this very moment, we'll have her just kind of climbing the stairs for the end pose, and here we go.
Speaker: Finding that balance of looking nice, but also not making it so...
Speaker: difficult that they can't do the singing.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: You've done a great job with like things.
Speaker: Because you choreographed it prior.
Speaker: I believe for the most part.
Speaker: There were a couple things that I suddenly found out.
Speaker: Oh, I couldn't hear that in the soundtrack.
Speaker: You're singing that?
Speaker: Oh, let's not have you clap offbeat and sing onbeat.
Speaker: That, no.
Speaker: Oh, gosh.
Speaker: Now I'm like, I want to try it.
Speaker: The part with the triplets where they're like clapping off.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: And there's like a lot of doot doots.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: All on different beats.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't have you clapping at that point.
Speaker: That's just torture.
Speaker: That's too much.
Speaker: Yeah, you're not getting paid to be here.
Speaker: That's not fair.
Speaker: You're not a paid actor.
Speaker: We can only put you through so much torture.
Speaker: You're a volunteer.
Speaker: But that is an interesting thing about choreography that I feel like is different than what you guys are doing and what you're doing and the vocals is you get the music and you have to let it tell you what to do.
Speaker: Because you can come in with a vision, but if that's not what the music is doing...
Speaker: There's not too much manipulation you can do to make the dancing take over.
Speaker: Because you always dance to music.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so therefore, you're matching something.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And I just think that that makes it a very cool art form.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it's kind of that whole thing of like with acting, you have to match reality to a degree.
Speaker: And so there's something real that you're striving for, even in a like...
Speaker: a synthetic setting.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: There's to be some element of truth there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: The setting is fantastical.
Speaker: It's like an abstraction of the reality and truth that you're portraying.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So dance, the truth is the music.
Speaker: And you have to find the movement within the music.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if you think about music, there's a lot of movement turns in it anyways.
Speaker: So there's just a lot that you just have to rely on that.
Speaker: And yet the cool thing is different choreographers can listen to the same song and find different truths within the same music.
Speaker: And you just know that you're not a good choreographer if it doesn't work with the music.
Speaker: Like you're not finding the truth in the music.
Speaker: Uh-huh.
Speaker: That is cool.
Speaker: That's very funny.
Speaker: Abby, I'll throw it to you.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: My name is Abby, and I am the music director.
Speaker: I, again, forgot what the...
Speaker: follow-up question to that was.
Speaker: I think that was... What do I do in the hashtag?
Speaker: And then I just talked about my role.
Speaker: Because you both kept talking and I was like, I don't remember what that question was.
Speaker: My sort of like sub-question, which kind of got partly answered, which was going to be the next one.
Speaker: It's like, how did I get involved with the show?
Speaker: Yeah, and like, why?
Speaker: I still kind of have that question.
Speaker: Because for several of you, I'm still not sure why you said yes.
Speaker: And particularly you, Abby, I was very much like, there's never, there's a snowball's chance in a really hot place
Speaker: would say yes to this show and there's something about just this show in particular and that was like my thing with like every single person I was asking I was like there's no way they're gonna say yes and basically everybody I asked to like be involved in the behind the scenes said yes and I've never asked why so I have an opportunity on the podcast now to be like why did you guys say yes to this show wow that's so funny I love it
Speaker: Now you get to find out.
Speaker: Okay, I mean this in a really nice way, and I don't feel bad.
Speaker: No, it's not what you... Okay, so there's two reasons.
Speaker: There's two reasons.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The first one is I would say... Because, John, you've helped me with every show that I've directed.
Speaker: So I very much felt... Well, yeah, because you helped me with Singing in the Rain.
Speaker: And then with Pirates, you were on crew.
Speaker: And then the woman, you helped move the piano.
Speaker: Like, we had to get that piano moved in.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: And you gave us your Christmas tree, and...
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: I forgot about that.
Speaker: So on varying degrees, you've helped me with everything that I've done.
Speaker: I just got more and more involved until I got to assistant director.
Speaker: So I very, very much felt like, okay, I should definitely help John with his project, but not to make me feel like I was obligated to get more busy.
Speaker: I was turning in my car.
Speaker: And then also, I was involved...
Speaker: Well, I'm... Okay, there's lots of reasons.
Speaker: I primarily work with kids.
Speaker: Like, I teach 5 to 12-year-olds most of the year.
Speaker: And so every once in a while, it's very refreshing to work with adults.
Speaker: Not that I don't love teaching kids, but just the retention ability of adults is much higher.
Speaker: It is nice.
Speaker: And the finished product is usually much better.
Speaker: So every once in a while, that's really refreshing.
Speaker: And then I was in a production of Godspell when I was like 15.
Speaker: And it definitely could have been better.
Speaker: So I was excited to do a production of it and know that with the team that you had already that it would definitely probably be better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Those were all of my reasons.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Anna, did you have a reason that made you say yes other than just, I want to dive into assistant directing?
Speaker: Was there something about that show that interested you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: I think she said all of her reasons.
Speaker: Well, I don't know if you want to talk about it.
Speaker: Oh, that.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: We should leave some surprises for the audience.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, I'll say this.
Speaker: You're tackling a lot of different things and you wanted the show to be very real to life in the way that the church is very diverse.
Speaker: And yeah, I just really, I loved your vision for it and I really wanted to, I was like, I...
Speaker: I know John has the heart, but maybe not always the knowledge to know everything about every group of people and subgroup of people.
Speaker: Yeah, that's incredibly fair.
Speaker: Because I don't.
Speaker: But I'm like, in certain particular areas, I know different things.
Speaker: Yeah, and we're kind of have experience in different circles.
Speaker: Yeah, and I was like, I would really love to try and do this as well and as God-honoring as possible while honoring people's lived experiences.
Speaker: Right, because that's...
Speaker: For any who haven't heard me talk about Godspell a million times leading up to this, it is very much like if it's in the modern day, I was like, okay, then let's bring Jesus into the modern day or more bring the modern day into contact with Jesus and see what happens there.
Speaker: Which then means, okay, you're dealing with real people's lives and...
Speaker: issues that are at the forefront of our minds in the election season, which I didn't think about when I planned on doing this in 2024.
Speaker: We still have a few months.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm sure we'll figure it out.
Speaker: But that's... So it's been... All four of you, I guess I included myself.
Speaker: Yeah, all of us.
Speaker: I feel like there is a really nice sort of broad, diverse perspective amongst us, but we're all very grounded in Jesus is the Lord of our life and we love him.
Speaker: And so that has just been really great that I feel like it's been able to like iron sharpen iron and make the show better and make sure it's really aligned with...
Speaker: the truth of the gospel and the heart of Christ, um, while also like bringing in these different viewpoints that can flesh out the story and the world and make it richer and deeper and truer.
Speaker: So that's been really cool.
Speaker: And you've been a great part of that.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Also, uh, do you want me to turn that off?
Speaker: Turn one off.
Speaker: The thing that keeps beeping outside.
Speaker: That's my phone.
Speaker: And I can turn that off.
Speaker: I don't know if... I only heard it once.
Speaker: I doubt the microphone can hear it.
Speaker: It's probably fine.
Speaker: I think it's okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We're good.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Listen for it.
Speaker: You might hear it.
Speaker: You never know.
Speaker: Comment.
Speaker: Tell us how many times you heard the phone ring.
Speaker: Also, how many times?
Speaker: I look right at the camera.
Speaker: Do the gym look.
Speaker: I feel like you're not supposed to do that.
Speaker: I do it a fair amount.
Speaker: I think the podcast is different.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: You're the fifth person at this table, random listener, viewer.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: According to Anna, you're excluded.
Speaker: Just turn off the podcast now.
Speaker: No, you're a silent observer, and that is different.
Speaker: That's different.
Speaker: Ellie, did you have any more reasons why you said yes?
Speaker: See, I was just trying to answer your whole big, broad question.
Speaker: I didn't realize we were just answering part of it.
Speaker: That's fine.
Speaker: Yeah, I think we answered it, too.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: That's why I was like, I feel like there's more questions I'm supposed to answer, because they answered, like, four.
Speaker: I was just trying to.
Speaker: I'm the music director.
Speaker: I'm the music director.
Speaker: Say everything.
Speaker: Yes, that is my problem.
Speaker: If you get me talking, I will just keep doing it.
Speaker: So we'll probably end up doing it all.
Speaker: You didn't have sent us these questions ahead of time because now we're like, okay, we're answering them.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: I did write down a bunch of answers while I was at work today.
Speaker: I'm like, what are resources for artists?
Speaker: Don't jump to the end.
Speaker: We're only halfway through.
Speaker: I guess you'll have to wait in my house.
Speaker: Keep listening.
Speaker: Skip to time, go two hours and 50 minutes.
Speaker: It's just me in this room.
Speaker: We've all laughed.
Speaker: Signing off.
Speaker: We give Anna all of our resources.
Speaker: We're like, when you're done, share these.
Speaker: Did you have a specific reason why you said yes?
Speaker: I think my reasons were that I trusted your vision for it and I wanted to see it come to life.
Speaker: And also I wanted to do the songs justice and choreograph something good.
Speaker: Which you've got.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I wanted to see if I could do it.
Speaker: If I could choreograph a musical theater show.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it's just a different thing.
Speaker: And you don't know if you can do something until you try.
Speaker: So it was like, this is a great opportunity.
Speaker: I'm going to take it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Unfortunately, we didn't make something blasphemous with it.
Speaker: So far.
Speaker: I guess we have three weeks.
Speaker: We can still.
Speaker: Well, and I didn't know you hadn't choreographed for musical theater before.
Speaker: Because I have seen you in things before.
Speaker: Because you and John have been in a lot of similar things together.
Speaker: But I hadn't realized that until I got your bio for the program.
Speaker: And I was like, I know that.
Speaker: She's doing a great job.
Speaker: This is my debut.
Speaker: I think for both of you guys, though, I don't feel like either of you have missed a beat in the new roles that you guys have stepped into.
Speaker: I've been thinking about being an actor under your assistant direction or under your choreography, and I'm like, if somebody told me this was their first show, I would not believe it at all.
Speaker: Well, you told Lisa the other day, and she was incredibly surprised.
Speaker: Flabbergasted.
Speaker: Either that or...
Speaker: which is probably why we cast her.
Speaker: She's a good actor.
Speaker: Well, which is actually like a compliment because I think it's a very, a very common misconception in the performing arts world that if you are good at something, then you are also good at teaching it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which, I mean, seems like that would make sense, but it's really not the majority of the time.
Speaker: Like you can be a good dancer, but that doesn't make you a good choreographer.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: And so the fact that you guys are is great.
Speaker: Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker: Well, and I...
Speaker: Granted, I haven't acted in a long time, but I am not a good actor.
Speaker: Well, see, sometimes it's like that, too.
Speaker: Well, that's true, because think about Hollywood.
Speaker: None of the movie directors hardly ever act.
Speaker: There's some, but most of them are very focused.
Speaker: They are great at getting their actors to give a performance and helping them explore that.
Speaker: A lot of the choreographers for professional ballet companies are the ones that weren't good enough to be professional ballerators.
Speaker: That's so sad.
Speaker: But that is that saying, right?
Speaker: And they know what makes it good.
Speaker: And they can bring it out of people and they can create something beautiful on other dances.
Speaker: Yes, and people can like visualize it better than they can do it.
Speaker: I couldn't make my body do it, but I know it needs to look like this.
Speaker: Which I feel like I...
Speaker: I can bring a lot of social skills.
Speaker: Of working with people.
Speaker: Because I work with people all the time.
Speaker: Which I do not have.
Speaker: Which I love about you.
Speaker: There is something about... That's why we round out this team very well.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I have to say, one, when I first met you... Oh, no.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: Well, I had met you before.
Speaker: Did you think I didn't like you?
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Well, also, I'm sure I'd met you at different times.
Speaker: At least when you and John were in Mary Poppins.
Speaker: I'm sure I met you then, because I saw that show.
Speaker: You introduced me to everybody.
Speaker: Yeah, probably.
Speaker: Yeah, because our whole freaking family was there.
Speaker: We were right next to each other, and there was a crowd, so that makes sense.
Speaker: And this is my cousin, and my other cousin, and he's that cousin.
Speaker: That one's related to us, I think.
Speaker: But then, yeah, I wasn't sure.
Speaker: And then we were casting.
Speaker: I'm working on it.
Speaker: I love it because I there's two big things I don't one I don't remember what I said but the first time I like really made you laugh I was like she likes me it's gonna be okay and then the other time is we were we were talking about casting we were sitting in the coffee shop like okay where is this gonna be and there was a couple of different times where you're like
Speaker: I mean this in the nicest way possible.
Speaker: And then said something incredibly direct where I'm like, that wasn't mean, but that was so helpful.
Speaker: Like that was so needed to just like, instead of us being like, well, but maybe we could get them there.
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: And we beat around the bush sometimes.
Speaker: And you were like, but they can't sing.
Speaker: Which is great for me who beats around the bush.
Speaker: They cannot sing.
Speaker: It's like, but we could put them here.
Speaker: Like it was very like, and so there's moments where you're like,
Speaker: I mean this in the nicest way possible.
Speaker: And I'm like, this is going to be the truth.
Speaker: And I love it.
Speaker: It's helpful sometimes.
Speaker: Yeah, and I feel like we bow to each other.
Speaker: I feel like Anna, you and I are very blunt and honest.
Speaker: Yes, that can be.
Speaker: And then John and Ellie are very, very polite.
Speaker: They say the blunt thing, and then we push it around.
Speaker: They're like, that was really great.
Speaker: And I'm like, but... But also, I know, we were doing the...
Speaker: doing the costume parade on Thursday.
Speaker: And I'm like, I thought to myself, there's a very specific reason me and Abby are behind the table.
Speaker: Yes, John was in front of the table with the costumer.
Speaker: And they were like being very like, okay, so this is working, this is not working.
Speaker: And then Anna and I were like behind the table.
Speaker: Just like a little peanut gallery.
Speaker: Just so many reads.
Speaker: I'm like, this looks like a pastor from the 90s.
Speaker: My favorite one was we put Molly in a different shirt and all of a sudden I was like, she went from like,
Speaker: attractive like professional woman suspicester so fast we can't let her wear that shirt we can't do that to her she like grabbed me and was like john john john she cannot wear that shirt i was like why what am i missing she comes out molly comes out in her second shirt and john and john's like yeah okay that's like a nice different color and i was like she cannot wear that shirt
Speaker: And part of it was the colored lips she was wearing as well.
Speaker: I'm like, I think we could have probably changed.
Speaker: We could have made it work, but she just looked so much older.
Speaker: The other one, I think, is a different character.
Speaker: Well, and that just happens.
Speaker: Because I'd say everybody in a directing team gets there at some point.
Speaker: But it's just so much more stressful if you get to that point at like final dress or even the week of.
Speaker: If you can be, if you can, I know that you need to be rude.
Speaker: I don't feel like we're rude.
Speaker: Sometimes my face looks rude, but I don't act rude.
Speaker: Sometimes that's because you've had oral surgery.
Speaker: I'm like, that's not fair.
Speaker: You're like, my nose is killing me.
Speaker: I literally can't smile.
Speaker: At auditions, Abby had just had sinus surgery.
Speaker: Sinus surgery.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: And she's like, I usually smile more, but I physically can't.
Speaker: So I will just stare daggers at you during auditions.
Speaker: Yeah, I was very serious.
Speaker: Very scary.
Speaker: But it's, it's, if you, I mean, like, and I say we, we, we speak the truth still in love, but very, very more straightforward.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it saves so much stress if you can do it ahead of time.
Speaker: Like, don't lie to yourself the whole time that I like this color shirt.
Speaker: And then on final dress, look at your customer and be like, she can't wear that shirt.
Speaker: Cause then now you're stressed and she's stressed.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I think a lot of times you just have to learn to like, I'm just going to say the thing as the director that's the true thing that needs to happen in this situation.
Speaker: And as much as I care about this person and would like to work through the emotions that this note may cause or something, I just need to say it and then they need to deal with it.
Speaker: And they can talk to me afterwards if there's something more to unpack.
Speaker: But a lot of times you just kind of have to say the thing and be like, not to be like traumatizing.
Speaker: Don't Stanley Kubrick it, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker: Don't be mean.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But there's a point where it's like, I'm just going to say the direct thing.
Speaker: Well, because also, as an actor, I trust my director to not let me look stupid.
Speaker: Whether that's in what I'm doing, what I'm singing, what I look like.
Speaker: And I've been in shows where I don't trust my director to not let me look stupid.
Speaker: And that's terrifying.
Speaker: I've walked down the stage and been like, I know I look stupid in this costume.
Speaker: There is no world that this costume does not look bad on me.
Speaker: And it does not fit in the show.
Speaker: And it does not.
Speaker: Or like...
Speaker: You know, like I'm playing a scene or I'm trying to be funny and I feel like I'm just floundering because no one's telling me if it's funny or not.
Speaker: Where I would, I would, and I think that gives me freedom as music director or as any part of the team to be more blunt because I know I appreciate that as an actor.
Speaker: Don't tell me I'm good if I'm not good.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: Like I'll quit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and that is just such the hard...
Speaker: The hard thing of working with people is because people take it in so many different ways.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like, I have a friend who she coached collegiate women's basketball.
Speaker: And... I forgot about sports on a theater podcast.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I'm so sorry.
Speaker: I'm not going to understand a word you're about to say, but that's okay.
Speaker: You will because I don't understand basketball at all.
Speaker: Collegiate.
Speaker: For a while she was the assistant director of college basketball at GVSU for a few years.
Speaker: And it was very interesting because she also did other things around the athletics program and stuff.
Speaker: And she was like, it was so funny because every once in a while I would get pulled into the men's practice to just like, hey, can you take this group over and run drills or whatever.
Speaker: And she's like, it's so interesting coaching men versus coaching women.
Speaker: And it's not all the same, like, because there's obviously different kinds of women.
Speaker: Like, you and me are very different in how we, you know, direct people than like Ellie or John does.
Speaker: And they're not even both women.
Speaker: So like...
Speaker: Thanks for calling your back.
Speaker: So it's not like a, it's not an across the board thing.
Speaker: She's like, but like generally like guys, especially in sports, guys just want to be told like, don't do that.
Speaker: Do that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Yes coach.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: Whereas women you have to like, she's like at least in, in basketball in that particular like arena, you had to like kind of stroke it a little more of like, you're doing really well.
Speaker: I see that you like putting in a lot of effort, but what we really have to work on is the particular,
Speaker: basketball jargon right yeah that's what i usually get lost but uh and she was like it was so interesting because you couldn't just be like that was bad don't do that because like they would then they would like they would take it so seriously to heart that then they couldn't do well right right and that's such an interesting thing working with people because i'm the way my brain works because i'm way too black and white so often it's just like i would just like to be like
Speaker: no, let's fix that.
Speaker: It's like, don't do that.
Speaker: And it's like, that's just not how people work.
Speaker: But I think that's why it's good to have a team of directors because then you can kind of have both and you can find that balance.
Speaker: And I'm just saying the same thing.
Speaker: Maybe people respond better to you than they do to you.
Speaker: Like, I'm not very good at directing my brother most of the time.
Speaker: I would think that would be an odd dynamic.
Speaker: Which is why I'm here.
Speaker: That is.
Speaker: Because it goes into a relationship.
Speaker: It's funny directing my husband in a way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I wondered about that.
Speaker: It's been actually kind of fun.
Speaker: Because I... It's been very fulfilling.
Speaker: No, but it's just funny.
Speaker: Because I switch into a completely different mode.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Like teacher mode.
Speaker: And I'm much more willing to be like, no, don't do that.
Speaker: True, damn.
Speaker: Right, where at home you're like, that was great, honey.
Speaker: No, this isn't burn at all.
Speaker: So it's just a different thing because it's a completely different scenario.
Speaker: And then you're looking at people in a different way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because you're not really looking at them in a relational way in the same way you are when you're like interacting with them the rest of the time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because it is that thing where you all are trying to create something.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Ideally, you have a team of people, you have a team of actors.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And like a team of directors that all want it to do well and are all for the most part on the same page of what you're going for.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So then it's so much easier to tell somebody, hey, you've got to stop doing that because it's pulling away from this and this is important because of this.
Speaker: And they're like, ah, OK, great.
Speaker: Because I want that to work because I want this show to work and I want this to be good.
Speaker: So it's not about, oh, I'm doing a bad job and taking it as a personal thing.
Speaker: But it's like, oh, that's not serving the story we're trying to tell.
Speaker: I can adjust and that's actually me doing a good job.
Speaker: Yeah, totally.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What about the show Godspell is important to you guys?
Speaker: I feel like it's probably going to be similar for all of us, but what about it has been important for you to draw out?
Speaker: I don't know what I'm going to start with.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: You said Jesus.
Speaker: You get to go first.
Speaker: You get to go first.
Speaker: Dang it.
Speaker: It's like nose goes.
Speaker: Nose goes.
Speaker: You'll have to come see the show.
Speaker: It felt like a bingo card that everybody can bring to the show and be like, oh, they referenced that in the podcast.
Speaker: They referenced this in the podcast.
Speaker: I heard Anna's phone go off of me.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Godspell bingo.
Speaker: That would be so fun.
Speaker: That would be fun.
Speaker: I feel like, what would the prize be, though?
Speaker: You get brought up on stage.
Speaker: Yeah, right.
Speaker: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker: For some people, that's so not a prize.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: It's happened to me a couple of times in rehearsal, and, like, it's just rehearsal.
Speaker: No one else is there, and I've hated it.
Speaker: But also, like, love it a little bit.
Speaker: Or it's that weird thing of, like, don't look at me.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: Have you ever seen, I'm going to go on a small tangent.
Speaker: Have you ever seen that SNL sketch with Kristen Wiig where she's like at a Christmas party and there's a piano but no one's playing the piano.
Speaker: And she like drapes herself across the piano.
Speaker: She's like, oh, it's here.
Speaker: Don't make me sing.
Speaker: Oh, someone's going to ask me to sing.
Speaker: And everyone is like, no one is.
Speaker: No one even wants music playing.
Speaker: And then just the whole thing is her just being like, don't make me sing.
Speaker: actually.
Speaker: I know, I know.
Speaker: Piano in sight.
Speaker: It's like the one ring.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just like, I can't.
Speaker: And every once in a while, there's that little moment, and then I remember I have terrible stage fright, and I don't like that at all.
Speaker: So is that what's important about the show for you?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, what is important about the show?
Speaker: Jesus and being brought up as an audience member.
Speaker: Those are the two things.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: Well, see, I would say that if we had a bingo card, I've got to finish all these loops.
Speaker: The prize would be tickets to the show, but then the show would be over.
Speaker: So that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker: We'll workshop it.
Speaker: I, it's just been, it's been hard.
Speaker: They're like, we've definitely had a lot of like, what I can only describe as logistical nightmares, but that I have legitimately had like bad dreams about.
Speaker: But, and like different moments and like, and some like hard conversations, but like for the most part, it has been just an incredibly like joyful experience to be like, even when like,
Speaker: they're just trying to get through the choreography.
Speaker: They're not smiling.
Speaker: But they're worshiping God.
Speaker: I'm like, I don't know if they actually in their hearts are at that moment.
Speaker: Because they're just like, is it my left or my right?
Speaker: What is happening?
Speaker: But to me, watching it... They're running around looking so stressed.
Speaker: Like, bless the Lord!
Speaker: Bless the Lord!
Speaker: And then there's me who's sitting there not sweating and just listening to the music and watching the activity and just being like...
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: I have so many moments where I'm just like... I feel just kind of blessed to be there.
Speaker: And just to see kind of... Because it can be such... There's so many great moments in the show that are just truly very joyful.
Speaker: That I think only... Sometimes only musical theater can kind of get to that level.
Speaker: Because so often in other art forms, it's like, that's too cheesy.
Speaker: But like...
Speaker: so much about like me trying to explain my faith to non-christians sounds so cheesy it's like i don't know he changed my life and i love him like yes and they're like this guy you can't see who i don't think is real like yes you know like like and it's it's so much more complicated than that we can talk theology if you want to but i it is just something like it can be so heightened to have like
Speaker: you know, what is it, like six, sometimes eight part harmonies while dancing this huge elaborate thing.
Speaker: And then you're, it's just like joy overflowing and it's directed at a God who deserves it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Which is just, so like, I've just, yeah, I feel like I've just gotten to...
Speaker: Just to even be there for it feels like a huge blessing to watch it and watch them put it together.
Speaker: Even really early on, music rehearsals, they'll be like, oh, OK.
Speaker: They're learning all the parts.
Speaker: And it's like, oh, that sounds really rough because it's week one of learning Stephen Schwartz music.
Speaker: But there'd be a moment where me and John are sending emails to everybody.
Speaker: in the back and like writing up lists upon lists of lists to remember lists.
Speaker: I was like, what was the deadline for that?
Speaker: I'll add that to the other list.
Speaker: And then all of a sudden they were just like, they would just have a moment where you could hear the chord and we would like look at each other and be like, oh.
Speaker: I think they'll make it.
Speaker: I think it's coming.
Speaker: They're gonna make it, guys!
Speaker: I think it's coming together, and it's like, it's April, we have so much time.
Speaker: Of course it will, but like... Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: So it's just been, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: For me, it's been very joyful for the most part.
Speaker: Ellie, what's been important about the show for you?
Speaker: Well, I mean, my answer is also Jesus.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: It is cool that we get to see Jesus within a community that's more familiar to us.
Speaker: Because like you guys touched on earlier, you see real people going through real problems with real conflict.
Speaker: Some of the conflict is silly, but most of the conflict is real.
Speaker: There's definitely one conflict that we've made very silly.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But I love it.
Speaker: No, you need that.
Speaker: And so it's cool to see everyone come together to create that picture because obviously Jesus isn't just a standalone person who existed.
Speaker: He came down to earth for a reason because he came down to show who God is in a unique way that God...
Speaker: couldn't do in the same way from heaven.
Speaker: Obviously, there's a lot of reasons Jesus came, but that is one of them.
Speaker: And so it's cool to bring that into a modern day context, but then also with the joy of musical theater and the life that that brings to it.
Speaker: It's very unique and it's cool to see...
Speaker: how much power it can have.
Speaker: And it's also cool to see a bunch of different people who all have different thoughts, different opinions, different lives coming together to do this show.
Speaker: Because really, within the cast and our production team, you don't feel like a lot of conflict.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is wonderful.
Speaker: And I think that that just shows... And not always usual in theater.
Speaker: Yes!
Speaker: No, it's not.
Speaker: Unfortunately.
Speaker: But I felt that during this show that it feels...
Speaker: like very united which you know then you know that it's not just the Jesus in the show but actually Jesus in the room um and that even though not everyone acknowledges him in the same way or to the same degree or at all in our cast um
Speaker: he's still there and he's still using everyone and he still placed everyone in this show.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's something that I think is really remarkable about our cast, if I can praise them for a second and just things I appreciate about them.
Speaker: It's very mixed religiously, but they have all like 100% committed to the thing that I said out at the start, which is I, you know, we care about this gospel as a true thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I've never had a time where I've given a piece of direction that is very much like, you're feeling this way because Jesus is coming to set all things right because that's what Jesus does.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Where somebody's been like, okay.
Speaker: Like, they've all just 100% been like, yeah, we are on board that that's the story that we're telling is the Christian story of Jesus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: you know, and for whatever that means to them in different ways.
Speaker: But they've all are very united, I think, around that theme.
Speaker: And that's been really neat to see because I'm not I don't think I've experienced a lot of like casts that are this mixed in their walks of life and beliefs and stuff be as unified in that sort of the story that they're telling and the themes they're addressing as this one is.
Speaker: It's been really cool.
Speaker: It has been.
Speaker: Abby, what about for you?
Speaker: Um, I'd say a lot of the same things.
Speaker: I would say the, the doing it reverently is very, very important to me.
Speaker: Um, I will say that was something that was done well about the one I was in before, um, was it was done reverently.
Speaker: Cause it rarely is.
Speaker: We, the group I was in with it before, like we had a cast reunion.
Speaker: We're like, let's go watch this college version of Godspell, which was a very big mistake.
Speaker: Very not reverent.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Which is difficult because I know it's not written by Christians.
Speaker: The person who conceived it was.
Speaker: But Stephen Schwartz is not.
Speaker: So John Michael Teblak, who was the original director and writer, he was because he was either going to go become an Episcopal priest or go into the theater.
Speaker: And then he was gay and he was like, well, I don't think they want me in the priesthood.
Speaker: So I guess it's theater.
Speaker: But then in returning to the church, he was like, this feels really not joyful on Easter Sunday.
Speaker: And it's Easter.
Speaker: If there's a day it should be joyful, it should be Easter.
Speaker: So that was like the thing that kicked it all off.
Speaker: So he was, I don't know if he remained a Christian for his whole life.
Speaker: He may have...
Speaker: straight or drifted into some other beliefs but but like most yeah like the original producers and people on broadway and it's not usually really been done with that in mind yeah so there's definitely um but there's some parts of the script that are like actually from scripture and there's definitely some lyrics of songs that are
Speaker: from scripture a lot of it is actually directly from scripture or christian tradition in some way so that's been really important to do it well and i've even talked about um like working on vocals like how do we even just like emphasize it the right way when we're singing it that it's sung sung reverently um because that's really hard when it's i feel like it's it's a lot easier to take um
Speaker: like other there's like other stories from the bible that people have rewritten to do in like modern modern settings and i feel like those all translate fine and it's not irreverent but something about like jesus and jeans can often be not done well yeah um i actually don't know if jesus is wearing jeans i don't know what he was sick on costume parading so i don't know what he's wearing but um fishnets
Speaker: Let's just go with jeans.
Speaker: Yeah, I would like to clear that up.
Speaker: I'm 90% sure he's wearing jeans, and I'm 100% sure he's not wearing jeans.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: So that's been really important to me, even from committing to it.
Speaker: I know I would do the music side reverently, but I was very purposeful in talking to John, making sure all elements of it were before I committed.
Speaker: That Jesus would not be in fish nets.
Speaker: That Jesus would not be in fish nets.
Speaker: That was the big one.
Speaker: Hours of conversation.
Speaker: And also, I think just making sure it's done well, because that's a big thing.
Speaker: even especially in the college world, of it's either done by Christians and done, even not just gospel, but theater in general.
Speaker: It's done by Christians and it's appropriate and whatever, but it's terrible performance quality.
Speaker: Or it's great performance quality, but it's raunchy stuff and inappropriate.
Speaker: And I very much believe that using your gifts...
Speaker: As long as it honors God and it's not, you know, your gift isn't murdering somebody or something.
Speaker: But, like, I don't think that's a gift he gives people.
Speaker: But it's... I don't know.
Speaker: David was pretty good.
Speaker: Got all those forscations.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: But using your gift...
Speaker: I think in some way is most often a form of worship.
Speaker: Like I, even if I'm like when I'm playing music in the pit for Cinderella, is that about Jesus?
Speaker: No, but I'm using my gifts and I'm giving it everything I've, I have because I'm giving it as a form of worship.
Speaker: So I think I don't have, I literally have no idea where I was going with that sentence, but I think it's, um,
Speaker: It's important to me that we do it well in terms of production quality and performance, what we're doing, and also reverently because as an audience member, I'm not going to notice the reverence and the message if they sing terrible.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: Like, that's going to be distracting.
Speaker: It's kind of like how Jesus fed them and then he also preached to them because they're not going to listen if they're hungry.
Speaker: It's like, if you only spend time, like, you know, building a community with your actors and making sure, like, we're quoting this scripture correctly...
Speaker: Like, that's not going to matter if it's not also, like, with talent.
Speaker: So I'd say that is important.
Speaker: So even though it's like, you know, the music is not written by a Christian, I think us doing it well is...
Speaker: still a form of worship.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And to Ellie's point, again, I've said this, I feel like a thousand times, but it does have just so much of rich Christian tradition where so much of it is either scripture or hymns that have been passed down for a long time.
Speaker: So it has been really...
Speaker: cool because I feel like there's a way in which doing it in musical theater can breathe new life into these things that people have heard over and over and over again but usually it's not done with the intention of like man this hymn is so rich and raw and a great expression of biblical truths so let's refresh it and make it cool not make it cool but like you know
Speaker: Make it new.
Speaker: Yeah, new in a machine-y way.
Speaker: And I'd say that.
Speaker: And that's kind of, I feel like we've done that to a degree.
Speaker: And I think other ones have in the past.
Speaker: Yeah, and everybody sings it different.
Speaker: And every song is almost a completely different style of music.
Speaker: And so even though it's like, oh, I know this hymn, or I know this psalm, or I know this passage of scripture, just even the style of the music makes you feel it differently.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: I think it's great.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I'm going to try and wrap us up here because we're drawn towards an hour.
Speaker: I want to ask quickly before we jump to my classic resources question.
Speaker: What are things that you guys hope people will take away from the show?
Speaker: We'll go to Anna because Anna hasn't answered your question in a minute.
Speaker: Anna always has to go first.
Speaker: She had to go first at the last one.
Speaker: That's fair.
Speaker: Should we start with Abby?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: What is it that you hope people will take away from the show?
Speaker: Oh, yes.
Speaker: I feel like we've been dancing around this the whole time.
Speaker: So I just feel like I'm going to summarize it.
Speaker: Do it.
Speaker: A fresh look on familiar passages for those who know the Bible.
Speaker: And a fresh look at Jesus and the life and community that he can bring really for everyone.
Speaker: Because I don't think anyone in America right now has never heard the name of Jesus.
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: I'd be surprised.
Speaker: Let's just put it that way.
Speaker: And so we all have an impression of him.
Speaker: And I would go as far to say that none of us have a completely accurate impression of him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I think there's always a new facet of his character that can be explored.
Speaker: And I think Godspell, the way we're doing it, hits one of those facets that's not always...
Speaker: talked about or seen or experienced when you're just experiencing him through the church.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Are we going to go left or right?
Speaker: I'll go.
Speaker: Stare down.
Speaker: What do I hope people take away?
Speaker: I mean, I would hope that people take away that Jesus loves them.
Speaker: And I think what – I hope this doesn't give too much away.
Speaker: But what you have incorporated and part of your vision is that everybody has a different thing that they're coming with that Jesus asks them about.
Speaker: to lay down in order to follow him.
Speaker: And I think that's really, really important.
Speaker: I think a lot of, I think it's gotten a little gray.
Speaker: Definitely, it's gotten a lot of gray over the years of
Speaker: you know, come as you are, which is true, but, but the, the phrase is not come as you are and stay that way.
Speaker: Um, it's yes, you don't have to be perfect.
Speaker: You don't have to be, you don't have to have it all together.
Speaker: You don't have to be cleaned up to come to Jesus, but you have to be willing to open up your hands.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You have to let go of what you may not know was a sin or, um,
Speaker: you from Jesus.
Speaker: Like he wants you to come, but then you have to do what he is asking you to do.
Speaker: And I think that's a, I think that's an important piece that you have incorporated into the show.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: And it's cause he cares about us.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not cause he's mean, right?
Speaker: He's like, you can't have that toy, but it's also like, but you can't have that flamethrower.
Speaker: Right, yeah.
Speaker: Right, it's like you don't know what's bad for you.
Speaker: That's like, sin doesn't look bad to you.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And some of it too, as I've been pondering this and because I've been thinking a lot about God's love over the last month or so.
Speaker: It's kind of been my meditative thing.
Speaker: Is we aren't just doing that just because it's what we're supposed to do or it's because it's what he says to do, but also because we love him.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we know what he's done for us.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Because I just had this question, like, why do I love God?
Speaker: Do I love God well?
Speaker: How am I doing that?
Speaker: And it is by opening, like, letting him have the stuff of your life and then tell you what to do with it is in and of itself an act of love and a response to just...
Speaker: The unending incredible love that he has.
Speaker: Even if it's not a sin that he's asking you to give up, but something that you like maybe idolize too much or that you are prioritizing.
Speaker: You're like, oh, I think my life is going this way.
Speaker: I'm going to be a race car driver.
Speaker: And so I'm going to do everything.
Speaker: We don't have any race cars in the show, but I'm going to be a race car driver.
Speaker: So I'm working really hard to be a race car driver.
Speaker: But he's like, no, actually, I want you to work at the grocery store.
Speaker: Like even if it's not a sin, but something he asks you to give up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's from Abby's own life when she was being
Speaker: She works at Family Fair?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: None of that is true.
Speaker: Testimony of God's grace.
Speaker: None of that is correct.
Speaker: Ooh, clean up on aisle four.
Speaker: I'd be a terrible person.
Speaker: Clean up yourself.
Speaker: Anna.
Speaker: Hmm?
Speaker: What do you hope people take away from the show?
Speaker: Yes, my name is Anna.
Speaker: I have been taught from a young age to respond to that.
Speaker: We're doing that Pavlov programming and you're just the name.
Speaker: Working very well.
Speaker: I'm already salivated.
Speaker: Isn't that what it was?
Speaker: Like the dog who like said I heard the bell out?
Speaker: I didn't even go to college.
Speaker: Um, I, what do I hope people take away from the show?
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Gosh, yeah, it's more of just the same, but it's that thing of... I do really hope that Jesus' heart for people and the...
Speaker: what I find incredibly confusing in my human brain, this combination of grace and truth that he holds and asks of people and gives graciously to people will really be seen and resonate with people.
Speaker: I'm hoping that because it's a modern setting and it's different enough from like
Speaker: you know, when you have Christmas or Easter and you always like read these passages and like, it's like, I can, I have them memorized.
Speaker: I know, you know, Luke too.
Speaker: And like, and so they went to Bethlehem and, you know, it's like, I know all the words.
Speaker: And so I know what's coming.
Speaker: And so I'm not really thinking about,
Speaker: the meaning behind that or the importance of it or what does that mean for my life or whatever.
Speaker: It's like, oh yes, I know the story.
Speaker: He died and he rose and there was the women and the linens and the angels and the, you know, it's like, yeah, I know all the things.
Speaker: And so I'm hoping like this is different enough and the addition of the music I think helps because that stirs the emotions, which brings in a whole different part of your brain even just to look at it scientifically.
Speaker: And I'm hoping that like for those that know the story that they are challenged or at least reminded of what they've been gifted and for those that either don't know the story or don't believe it's true or don't have that
Speaker: relationship with Jesus because that's what it all comes down to yeah right it's not the knowing of it which is kind of what you were talking about with uh surrendering things because you love him right like you can't you can't surrender things especially things that you hold very dear or things that you feel like are very much integral to who you are as a person uh either it be your your job or your marital status or like whatever it happens to be of like well but I'm a
Speaker: I'm a mom or I'm, I'm, I'm married or I'm single or I'm like, or, you know, I'm a race car driver.
Speaker: I like, it's incredibly hard to, to surrender those things or have those look different than you expected them to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Just because it's the right thing to do.
Speaker: Like I find that very, I've found that very difficult in my life because I am a very, it can take you to a,
Speaker: to a point.
Speaker: It can.
Speaker: But it can't take you all the way.
Speaker: It can't take you all the way because I grew up a very black and white person.
Speaker: And I pretty much still am.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I got this haircut, but that's fine.
Speaker: And honestly, this is pretty vanilla at this point.
Speaker: I've never dyed it.
Speaker: But that is pretty black and white.
Speaker: I broke him.
Speaker: I broke him.
Speaker: he's gotten to this point a couple times.
Speaker: I have.
Speaker: I know, I know.
Speaker: But there was definitely this oldest child syndrome of like, yes, well, what is the right thing to do?
Speaker: Let's do that.
Speaker: My parents like to tell the story of, well, Anna really followed the parenting book.
Speaker: It said, if they're doing this, you do this, and then it fixes it.
Speaker: And it did.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that's how people work.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, and then, yeah.
Speaker: And then they had other children that are like, Oh, not all children do that.
Speaker: It's like, yeah, that's, that's how people are.
Speaker: Uh, but like I was that person and like that did get me so far and like kept me out of probably a lot of trouble I could have gotten into.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, when it came to a certain point in my life of having to like surrender what I thought my future would look like and like,
Speaker: you know, at first thinking I would be married and have kids and have a life that looked a lot like my parents and then being like, oh no, I'm gay, what do I do with that?
Speaker: And like, okay, well then, and knowing intellectually, really from the time I realized I was gay, knowing intellectually, I'm like, I don't think this is God's best for me.
Speaker: I don't think I can theologically get on board
Speaker: with like dating and marrying a woman.
Speaker: I just don't think I can even just on a mental level get myself that far.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, but like emotionally I'm like, but that's going to be really hard to live the rest of my life that way.
Speaker: And like then having this realization of like, I don't think like, I don't know if I know Jesus.
Speaker: I know a lot about him and I,
Speaker: But him just telling me no is not even close to a good enough reason for me to continue to live a celibate life.
Speaker: And so then that kind of led into this whole thing of like, well, what do I believe about Jesus and who is this person and how do I actually...
Speaker: get to know him and have a relationship with him and talk to him and how do you listen to his voice in your life which is a whole thing that takes that I'm still learning how to do and like and then like learning how to trust him with those things and like then it became so much less about my sexuality and it was so much more this thing of like
Speaker: okay, I think this is an important person I need to know and I need to figure this out instead of like, I gotta figure out what to do with this gay piece.
Speaker: It doesn't fit in any of my closets.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: There's a shelf for this.
Speaker: I guess it sounds like a closet.
Speaker: Bitch.
Speaker: But yeah, but then like having like a small community of people that like listen to me and let me like
Speaker: through things and having a mentor that like prayed with me and pushed me to pray and be like I would come in like crying and be like do you want to pray about it I'm like no I wanted to whine to you about
Speaker: But then having that support and slowly growing and learning and meeting him, I really did fall in love with him and the person that he is.
Speaker: That's so cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And after several months of just doing that really basic core work,
Speaker: then being able to have that conversation with him of like, Jesus, what do you want me to do with this?
Speaker: Cause this is, this is something I experienced, which I, it doesn't seem like you really want to change or is going to change.
Speaker: So how do, how do I live like this in an honoring way?
Speaker: And like, I believe that like the question I kept asking was like, what, uh,
Speaker: why, why would I choose to live this way?
Speaker: Why would I choose to live a celibate life?
Speaker: And like the answer that I got from him and was enough for me because I knew him and loved him was just like a very gentle, cause I'm asking you to, I'm not telling you to, and I'm not saying that I'm going to leave you if you don't,
Speaker: but I'm telling you this is what's best for you.
Speaker: And we've spent these last months and months you learning how to take small steps and listening to me and trusting me and learning to love me.
Speaker: And that's why you would, because I'm asking you to.
Speaker: And I don't think you can get to that point until you know him.
Speaker: So, to put a pin in this, now that I've given my testimony.
Speaker: How dare you.
Speaker: Talk about what Jesus did in your life in this podcast about a show about Jesus.
Speaker: But I'm really hoping that, like, it's enough to get people kind of, like, shaken out of certain, like, patterns and stuff to try and to at least, like, question certain things in their life or be like, well, I got to think about that.
Speaker: I have to pray about that.
Speaker: Oh, I have to interrogate what I think and feel about that.
Speaker: And hopefully that's a...
Speaker: Just like a small push in whatever God's already doing in their life.
Speaker: That's what I hope.
Speaker: And that's a big hope.
Speaker: I hope people also enjoy it because I think it's very fun.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: But that's mostly Jesus.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think that my follow-up to that would be I would encourage people to come to the show looking for that.
Speaker: Because if you know Godspell, then you're just like, oh, this is going to be funny.
Speaker: Like, I'm just going to sit here and laugh for two and a half hours.
Speaker: But we, and I say we like I've done something.
Speaker: I just...
Speaker: clunked out harmonies on a piano.
Speaker: But I mean, I haven't done character stuff.
Speaker: I mean, the we collectively, as in John and Anna.
Speaker: And Ellie.
Speaker: And Ellie.
Speaker: And the actors.
Speaker: Of...
Speaker: John's vision was to put those pieces in the show.
Speaker: And so I would encourage people coming to look for that because you might miss it.
Speaker: Um, cause it's subtle and cause it's not in the script.
Speaker: Um, so it's all, yeah, it's all subtext.
Speaker: None of that is spoken.
Speaker: But some of them are pretty powerful, so I would encourage you to come observant for that.
Speaker: Don't just look at the surface of, oh, this is funny.
Speaker: Well, and that's my hope, if I can answer my own question.
Speaker: I think I say this in my director's note, but I really hope people will let their walls down and not to me or to us or to the show that we're putting on because there are going to be uncomfortable things in it because it's Jesus meeting our life and that...
Speaker: makes everybody uncomfortable, but to let their walls down enough to ask what this means for their life if the gospel is true, or what this story means to them, or ultimately what I believe, what Jesus is saying to them and what they need to talk to him about.
Speaker: And I don't think people are going to leave with answers because that's not good art usually.
Speaker: Yeah, you leave with questions.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so I'm hoping...
Speaker: that people come to a show that's really confounding and leaves them with a lot of questions about who Jesus is and how he engages with our life and leave, hopefully, with a lot of fodder for more conversations with Jesus where they can get to know him better and where they can let him, like you said, interrogate those things and tease out things in their life.
Speaker: And maybe, you know...
Speaker: It's entirely possible that my perspective on what I'm doing in the show is not what Jesus wants to do in the life of somebody, you know.
Speaker: But I hope that as people walk away from it, it's able to be a little seed in...
Speaker: whatever the next step is in their relationship with God.
Speaker: And also that just artistically, hopefully they leave with a decent picture of who Jesus is and what he's about and what he does mean to them personally as a person who...
Speaker: really does impact and engage our life today.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Well, one thing that I think is cool, because you touched on, I hope that people don't just come to laugh, but that they actually feel impacted by the message behind it all.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Laughing is actually super disarming.
Speaker: And so not only is that a service to our show and to getting the message across.
Speaker: We got you.
Speaker: Please laugh.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: If you don't laugh, I will just be so... I was saying this before we started.
Speaker: I'm so self-conscious about the humor.
Speaker: So please laugh at it and make me feel like we did something fun.
Speaker: And don't be like me who just sits here.
Speaker: Don't laugh silently.
Speaker: Because that's how I laugh.
Speaker: This is us pleading for you to laugh.
Speaker: You don't make noise when you laugh?
Speaker: Not usually.
Speaker: Like, it depends.
Speaker: Fascinating.
Speaker: Does air come out?
Speaker: Like, you exhale?
Speaker: Do you just cease to breathe?
Speaker: Or is it just... No, look at her!
Speaker: She's laughing right now!
Speaker: No, it does come out.
Speaker: Well, I didn't know... Some people...
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: There's a whole song in Mary Poppins about this.
Speaker: Oh, in the laughing song.
Speaker: I was so sad that that wasn't in the show.
Speaker: Because some people do, like, they're laughing, but they stop breathing.
Speaker: Like, there's not air coming out.
Speaker: I know when I'm laughing.
Speaker: I can do that sometimes.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: But I didn't know if you just kind of, like, things closed up and you started shaking.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Did you just have a seizure?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, you're unconscious when you have a seizure.
Speaker: Well, unless it's a focal seizure.
Speaker: There's different kinds of seizures.
Speaker: We don't need to talk about that.
Speaker: And now our podcast is about seizures.
Speaker: The intersection between Christ and seizures.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I could make a sermon on that.
Speaker: I feel like we keep interrupting Ellie.
Speaker: She's the most interrupted member of this podcast.
Speaker: Because she's so kind.
Speaker: Ellie, it's your chance to be blunt.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Here we go.
Speaker: This is it.
Speaker: This is your moment.
Speaker: What I'm talking about is not something to be funny.
Speaker: It's being funny.
Speaker: It's the whole point that like Jesus used humor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we don't always get that because it's a different context now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We have a different kind of humor.
Speaker: Translation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's a different culture and a different time.
Speaker: And it's like, I don't even know what we're talking about.
Speaker: And they're like, this is hysterical.
Speaker: And we're like,
Speaker: What's happening here?
Speaker: Like, I think I got the message.
Speaker: No, it's supposed to be funny.
Speaker: But so not only does the show utilize humor to send a message more clearly than without humor, but actually I think it's a little insight into who Jesus is, is that he's a human who uses...
Speaker: human communication tactics, like humor, to communicate something.
Speaker: And he enjoys humor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And laughed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I think that that kind of summarizes all of our points of this show's a different side of Jesus.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that the humor of the show actually lends itself towards that and enables that, um...
Speaker: deeper level of communication.
Speaker: Yeah, totally.
Speaker: Well, I think it's funny.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: So if you guys don't laugh, at least Anna and I are having a rip-roaring time over here.
Speaker: No, because some of the script is hard to translate from the 70s clown kind of aesthetic that it started with.
Speaker: And so I think because it's such a show of like, this is what we did.
Speaker: You can kind of do whatever you
Speaker: That was not funny.
Speaker: Or maybe it was then, but it's very specific references to a very specific time.
Speaker: And now it's like, well, that's not really relevant.
Speaker: And no one's going to find it really funny now.
Speaker: So I think you've adapted it very nicely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's been great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think it's very funny.
Speaker: Our cast has done a lot of that work, too.
Speaker: They're funny.
Speaker: They're great.
Speaker: Sometimes I just look at Spencer's face and I lose it.
Speaker: Spencer's hilarious.
Speaker: Spencer's so funny.
Speaker: He's so stinking funny.
Speaker: Come twice.
Speaker: Once you can watch Spencer the whole time, because his character's just so funny.
Speaker: And then just any time Emily's in a parable and she does that voice that's like... She hands it up.
Speaker: It's kind of British, but it's not.
Speaker: And it's just, I...
Speaker: I laugh every time.
Speaker: Or at least smile to myself.
Speaker: That's fantastic.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: To wrap us up here, one of the things I like to do is build a resource library because I needed resources as a young artist.
Speaker: I think everybody does.
Speaker: So what are resources you guys would recommend to somebody who wants to grow as an artist or to deepen their Christian faith?
Speaker: I don't know who I'm going to start with this time.
Speaker: I guess it's Abby's turn.
Speaker: I'll go first.
Speaker: I'll go first.
Speaker: Don't make me.
Speaker: No, don't take me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: um just in general as a performer i would say like reading scripts is really great like i have probably seven or eight scripts that i'll literally like sit down and read like i'm reading a book because it's it gets your like create yeah it's very cliche but your creative juices flowing do you usually read musicals or do you read straight plays i'm just curious now because i know you usually i
Speaker: I would say musicals is more what I read.
Speaker: That is interesting, because sometimes the book of musicals is
Speaker: Sometimes they can be very underwritten.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that's, but, but I, that I think that has trained my brain to like pull moments out of it because it's not, yeah, it's not, I'm used to reading it.
Speaker: It's like another language.
Speaker: Like you got to find what's interesting.
Speaker: Cause they're just like, and then the mom said, and then it's like nothing interesting.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So I say that.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: You've got to create all the... The subtext is often... Sometimes scripts have too much stage direction.
Speaker: Where you're like, I don't need a description of what the set piece looks like.
Speaker: If you ever get tired of stage direction, read Shakespeare.
Speaker: There's never a stage direction and you will be lost.
Speaker: Right, and then when there's not, it makes you figure it out yourself.
Speaker: So I think that's really good brain work.
Speaker: And then I'd also say, like, take classes and take lessons.
Speaker: Like, that's my... Like, I still take voice lessons and I...
Speaker: would take other classes if I had more money.
Speaker: But like, because performing is so much, it's like you physically, like you need someone to tell you what it looks like and what it sounds like.
Speaker: Like you can push yourself, but I think it's very, very helpful to have an outside opinion.
Speaker: Those would be my two performing recommendations.
Speaker: It's not really a resource you can post somewhere.
Speaker: That's okay.
Speaker: Take less, just in text on the website, take lessons.
Speaker: Take lessons.
Speaker: Anna or Ellie.
Speaker: Sure, yeah.
Speaker: I don't really have... I thought about this a little bit today.
Speaker: Even though I had these questions earlier.
Speaker: I don't really have a lot of artist recommendations because I don't really think of myself as an artist and I don't have a lot of resources, but I came up with...
Speaker: With a couple of things, if you're, like, trying to grow your faith.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One, I think, like, you have to do it in community.
Speaker: And ideally, like, also, like, finding a mentor.
Speaker: Or at least having older Christians or more mature Christians in your life.
Speaker: Like, having those people that will, like...
Speaker: who will love you and also speak truth to you of like, hey, like, we got to talk about this.
Speaker: Oh yeah, I've been taken out to coffee before and you're like, oh, great.
Speaker: I thought you just wanted to buy me coffee, apparently.
Speaker: Apparently there's something I need to know.
Speaker: We're going to talk about stuff.
Speaker: Which sometimes can feel like really hard and very daunting, but it's definitely worth it.
Speaker: Doing and worth finding those like solid people and there they are out there And then the other two things I was thinking of one I mentioned already Because like I am such a person that like has a really hard time keeping to like routines and to like
Speaker: just like doing those daily rhythms that you'd like need so like uh like when i talked about street lights which is very helpful because i can like listen to it in the car i can have it on in the background while i'm doing dishes and it's just like
Speaker: Sometimes I zone out and I'm not always listening, but then other times, like, when I am listening, I'm, like, I'm hearing, like, the actual words of God, which is very helpful.
Speaker: And then the other one is, there's an app called the Pause app, which is done by... I think I've heard of that.
Speaker: That one's done by John Eldridge, which I don't love all of his stuff, but some of it's very interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: And that's really good because it's... You can do it in, like, one, three, five, and ten minute increments, where it just, like...
Speaker: the way you set it up on your phone is like you won't get like notifications during that time and it just like walks you through kind of like and you're gonna take a deep breath and like do all this and then like and it's like and you're gonna center yourself and like know that Christ is in the space with you and like be cognizant of like you are about to be like addressing God so just like okay dear Jesus you know but like getting into that mindset of like I'm actually talking to
Speaker: God and who is that person and then like taking and so like a lot of them are very much just like think about what you're stressed about today what are you carrying today or just like what are the things that are in your life today and it's like I and I I
Speaker: give everyone and everything to you, God.
Speaker: And like, just taking like that time.
Speaker: And that's nice to have on my phone because then it's with me.
Speaker: And it's also just like a quick, like, okay, I can take one minute and just pray and just be like, just remember that like, I can only do what I can do.
Speaker: And all of this is in
Speaker: God's hands.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, so those are my recommendations.
Speaker: Sweet.
Speaker: Ellie.
Speaker: If you want to be an artist, I don't know, talk to John.
Speaker: Listen to this podcast.
Speaker: You're good?
Speaker: I caught it.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: It's good.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It was reflexes.
Speaker: Spider-Man.
Speaker: I feel like I'm really bad at trying to pinpoint your resource because...
Speaker: Different things speak to different people.
Speaker: And so it's really hard to be like, this will help you.
Speaker: Because there's a high percentage chance that it won't.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That parenting book Anna talked about.
Speaker: It'll work for one third of your children.
Speaker: You'll have to get to know your other children.
Speaker: You should put that on the website.
Speaker: I have no idea what it was.
Speaker: It was probably folks on the family or something.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I have no idea.
Speaker: But I guess this is not a resource, but just try things.
Speaker: Because as I've started choreographing this, I had a decent amount of self-doubt of like,
Speaker: I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker: I've never done this before.
Speaker: Does it all look like ballet?
Speaker: One of them certainly does.
Speaker: It doesn't either.
Speaker: It's what John thinks ballet looks like.
Speaker: I just drew pictures and was like, this is what a ballet looks like, right?
Speaker: Can you make this look like this?
Speaker: She's like, wow, this is awful, but it'll be funny.
Speaker: I can make it look like that.
Speaker: It won't be ballet.
Speaker: But yeah, like just try things because if you've been around art and you know your thing, whatever it is, you just need to get out there and try it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And your first time at anything is not going to be great.
Speaker: But the more you try, the more you do, the more you find, oh, I have a natural instinct in this way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, oh, here are my weaknesses that I need to watch out for and compensate for.
Speaker: But you're never going to find that out if you don't try.
Speaker: So try whatever setting is available to you.
Speaker: That sounds good.
Speaker: Just do it.
Speaker: First time I try to play...
Speaker: well, after church plays and stuff, a community theater play, I had a very important line where I was like, I really should cry at this line.
Speaker: And I was on stage prior, and we were all narrating these little bits.
Speaker: And I was like, I bet if I look in the light, I'll cry.
Speaker: And then I didn't realize that everybody else would be staring at me just staring at the light really wide-eyed, trying not to blink, trying to make myself cry.
Speaker: And then my mom and brother came out and were like, what was that about?
Speaker: I was like, oh, you saw that?
Speaker: You're like, yeah, because you know you were standing there staring out at the audience.
Speaker: You know how you were on stage?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We all saw you.
Speaker: Like two people away from center stage in a black box theater where there's like 70 people.
Speaker: You saw me?
Speaker: I was like, what?
Speaker: So, you know, you can't do worse than that.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Learn from John's mistakes.
Speaker: That's the resource we recommend.
Speaker: Don't do what John does.
Speaker: Or if you do, have a brother and mom that will be honest with you.
Speaker: No, that is true.
Speaker: I would highly, highly recommend having someone who can be brutally honest with you come to your stuff.
Speaker: Because again, ideally your director will help you not look stupid.
Speaker: But if you're in a show without one,
Speaker: Don't invite your nice friends to come see you who will also tell you you did great when you didn't.
Speaker: That was when I know that I had succeeded in playing Quasimodo was when you liked my hunchback.
Speaker: So it's like, I know Abby also loves this show and Abby is blunt.
Speaker: So if Abby said I did good, I think I did okay.
Speaker: That is a great show.
Speaker: That was fun.
Speaker: I love that show.
Speaker: You did do good.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: That's a good performance.
Speaker: But that's a, that's a, it's an anecdote to establish what Abby's saying, not for Brace.
Speaker: But yes, blood friends are helpful because then they're like, oh, they'll see my things and tell me if I need to improve.
Speaker: Like I have a list of friends that I'm like, if they tell me I did great, I'd be like, yeah, okay.
Speaker: Sure, whatever.
Speaker: And then I have a list of friends that tell me if I did great, I'm like, oh, it was actually good.
Speaker: Are these mentalists?
Speaker: Or do you want friends?
Speaker: I don't have those ones written down.
Speaker: I have a lot of other lists written down, but that one's not written down.
Speaker: There's so many lists.
Speaker: Well, thank you guys for coming on to the podcast and chatting a little bit about the show and stuff.
Speaker: It's been really great.
Speaker: I've had a great time.
Speaker: Hope it was productive.
Speaker: Yeah.
