Transcript
Speaker: Hey friends, welcome back to Artists of the Way.
Speaker: I'm John, the host.
Speaker: Today my friend Nate and I are chatting with Christine Hall from Alive Theatre.
Speaker: They have an upcoming production of Pride and Prejudice, which Nate especially was really excited to talk to Christine about.
Speaker: Sounds like it's going to be a really great show.
Speaker: If you guys can make it, you absolutely should.
Speaker: It sounds like they have a phenomenal cast and a really exciting script.
Speaker: And then I wanted to chat with Christine because her and I have chatted a little bit before about kind of a shared passion around
Speaker: mental health in theater.
Speaker: We've both had experiences, both ourselves and with people close to us, where we've seen positive and negative sides of theater and its effects on mental health.
Speaker: So I was really excited to have that conversation, and it was really, really wonderful.
Speaker: I'm so incredibly excited to share this with you guys.
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker: So yeah, so I guess especially background for you, Nate, on this conversation, because Christine and I had, we'd done an episode previously, and then we were talking recently, and the subject of mental health and theater came up.
Speaker: And you especially, Christine, are really passionate about that.
Speaker: So I wanted to pick your brain some more about that and chat a little bit about
Speaker: what you're currently doing at Alive and all of that stuff.
Speaker: But yeah, I just think that's an important conversation, mental health and art in general, just because we use our minds a lot with art and so seeing the ways that that affects us.
Speaker: So I'm excited to pick your brain about it.
Speaker: We did chat a little bit about it and then our computers failed.
Speaker: But then we're going to chat about it some more and I'm excited.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: We're here.
Speaker: Technology, man.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: So first, can you tell us a little bit about what you're working on right now and how that is going?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So Alive Theater is working on its second show ever,
Speaker: and it's pride and prejudice and we just had our auditions i just cast the show and last night actually we had the read through so tomorrow tomorrow's another rehearsal we have like a four-hour rehearsal tomorrow um wow but yeah so how many rehearsals are you doing for that
Speaker: We're doing one a week, but then we have one Saturday a month and it's the first Saturday a month.
Speaker: That's a good way to do it.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I think that's really nice, especially for adults as life gets busy.
Speaker: It's like, I want to do theater, but it can be hard with like many nights a week.
Speaker: So that one night a week thing is really nice.
Speaker: Yeah, that's part of my vision and the way I brand the theater is I'm talking about being kind of like a family friendly theater because we accommodate family schedules like me as a new mom, like I can't commit to a lot of theaters around here.
Speaker: They rehearse like up to four or five times a week.
Speaker: It's crazy.
Speaker: And I'm like, and they do a show with it in like two months.
Speaker: And I'm like, I just, that's just too much commitment for a mom.
Speaker: I can't get away from my baby that much and get a babysitter every night, you know?
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: You know, ours is a little bit more spread out, but it works for people's schedules.
Speaker: And there's a lot of people that, you know, work nights that can't get every night of the week off.
Speaker: So I remember when I was younger, I was like, if I want to be in theater, I have to have a day job because it's just not accommodating.
Speaker: And so, you know, I feel like now with Alive and there's other, I think Midway is similar to, I think they just do once a week.
Speaker: Like it's nice to have theater options for people with all schedules.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've done midway before and that once a week was nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's, yeah, it's a, it's a different pace, but it's, it's really helpful.
Speaker: And I feel like you can still make it work in such a way where you're able to put in the work that you need to for the show.
Speaker: Um, so I, it's been cool to see different places be willing to like experiment with what that format looks like.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that actually kind of ties into, um,
Speaker: we've talked about before with like mental health, I came up with this schedule because I mean, because I had to do it, but really I wanted to reach out to so many people that have especially loved theater in the past, but then life's gotten busy, families, you know, things happen and they just, they don't feel like they have a place in there.
Speaker: They don't have an opportunity to be in theater.
Speaker: And so already
Speaker: you know, directing the show and giving me an opportunity to do theater again, I just finally feel alive again.
Speaker: And like that kind of comment over and over again, hearing that and then just knowing myself that after having the break of COVID, you know, with all of us performers, we couldn't perform for like a couple of years.
Speaker: When I got back on the stage, I was like, I forget how much this makes me feel alive.
Speaker: So I always told myself, if I'm ever going to start a theater company, because I never really planned on starting it.
Speaker: It's kind of...
Speaker: God called me to it.
Speaker: But I was like, I'm going to call it a live theater.
Speaker: That's what I'm going to call it.
Speaker: For a question, that's what I wanted to name the theater.
Speaker: That's lovely.
Speaker: Are there any shows or roles that have made you feel alive?
Speaker: Or is it just the act of theater in general that you feel like?
Speaker: I think it's really just this.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's just like the theater in general, like the whole thing, you know, the show week, the community, you get to spend time with the actors.
Speaker: There's nothing as specific I can think of of the show itself.
Speaker: Some shows are obviously better than other shows and some casts are better than other casts.
Speaker: But, you know,
Speaker: Um, in general, it's just, yeah, I just something about the magic of theater and, and the community it brings.
Speaker: It's, it's, I think it really does help people's mental health.
Speaker: And I think it, it can help with just self-confidence and all of the things that we can get into it.
Speaker: But, but yeah, I just know it personally.
Speaker: And I've just seen it so many times in other people's lives.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: That's really cool.
Speaker: I'm curious, before we delve a little further into the mental health side of things, what is it now that you're past the read-through?
Speaker: Is there anything that you're really excited and hopped up about with this show in particular that you guys are doing?
Speaker: I was excited to hear that John said that your script is based on the 95 Pride Prejudice movie, which is like one of my favorite pieces of media ever.
Speaker: It's so good.
Speaker: It's so good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm making John watch it with us right now.
Speaker: Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker: I was like, oh my gosh, this is perfect timing because we're about to have this conversation with Christine about this script that's based on this and I'm just starting to watch it.
Speaker: Yeah, because John never seen it before and it's like my favorite thing.
Speaker: So my wife and his wife and I.
Speaker: Just, well, I think we're halfway through the second episode.
Speaker: So like Mr. Collins has rolled up and has started doing Mr. Collins shenanigans.
Speaker: So yeah, not super far in, but I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far.
Speaker: It's interesting to me how similar the characters still feel to the movie, which is the only, that's really the only Pride and Prejudice I've delved into.
Speaker: The 2005 one?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, but I think it's interesting.
Speaker: I just feel like usually when I see actors play roles, those characters feel very different.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: they felt, especially Lizzie, I think, like they felt very similar as people.
Speaker: Like there were differences still, but it felt like essence-wise, they still felt the same.
Speaker: I thought that was interesting.
Speaker: It's not always that way because Ellie found a version from like the 80s on YouTube that she'd seen before.
Speaker: We started watching it and it was not good.
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: She was saying it looked like maybe their first, like the 95 version, because the scenes are very similar, but maybe this was just their first run-through, read-through of it.
Speaker: It was quite bad acting.
Speaker: And so it was kind of fun in that way.
Speaker: It was interesting because it's like, wow, I didn't realize how good the 95 version was until you compare it to something bad.
Speaker: It's like, oh, you just take some of the good for granted sometimes.
Speaker: Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Do you have a favorite character?
Speaker: There's so many characters I love.
Speaker: I don't know how to pick a favorite, but I will say
Speaker: Mrs. Bennett is just hilarious.
Speaker: Like, and the 95 version, the series, she's my favorite.
Speaker: Like, I'm going to tell my Mrs. Bennett, like my cast, I'm like, hey, can you just like emulate her?
Speaker: Can you just like study her?
Speaker: Because everything she does is so perfect.
Speaker: I like her so much better than the movie version, the 2005.
Speaker: Because she's just so much more...
Speaker: real like I feel like she's like actually just that's how she is it doesn't feel over dramatic or active even though she's completely over dramatic and active it's not that like yeah they're like real I don't know I love I love how she plays her I watched some behind the scenes from the 95 recently and it was interesting to see that actress as a regular person it's like oh that's not who you are just because she played it so convincingly yeah yeah that's awesome
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, there's a lot of great characters.
Speaker: I mean, I think personally, and you said they were similar essence for sure, but the Collins, I think are very different in a way, like between the movie and the- I see that.
Speaker: Just like a little bit.
Speaker: I mean, it's still, they're both obviously Collins type.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: type personalities and i'm trying to figure out even with my my cast just hearing the read through last night i'm like okay how am i gonna this is probably what i'm most excited about to answer your question is like hearing everybody finally together and reading after you like piece together the auditions because it was a huge turnout we had over 50 people signed up for auditions amazing and um i have like 20 characters i had a cast
Speaker: And so it was a lot of older people too.
Speaker: Oh, that's great.
Speaker: You gotta find a show that has like older ladies for Lansing because there's a ton of them out there that apparently wanted to come out for Lady Catherine.
Speaker: Steel Magnolias.
Speaker: I love Steel Magnolias.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But yeah, I'm just hearing like everyone talking and thinking already through like how I'm going to pull like, oh, like there's so much potential.
Speaker: There's so much good right there.
Speaker: Like I'm just going to pull into that and like make these characters even more
Speaker: you know, by the time we perform, it's going to be so much fun to like work with them.
Speaker: And even like the Collins, like how do we, because Collins is such a comedic character that you, that I'm like, okay, like comedic timing is everything with him.
Speaker: And like finding that like genuine, okay, this is a real person, but this is how they act, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And not being overacting.
Speaker: Because that's one thing I always.
Speaker: I'm big about that as a director.
Speaker: I'm like I don't want to see that you're acting.
Speaker: And if I see that you're acting.
Speaker: I'm going to call it out and be like stop acting.
Speaker: Because I can tell you're just playing a character.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well and I feel like the best comedy.
Speaker: Is when you're just real.
Speaker: And it feels like real life.
Speaker: I mean there's slapstick in vaudeville.
Speaker: That's funny too.
Speaker: But like I feel like.
Speaker: focusing on the truth of comedy and that's why I feel like a lot of comedians are really good actors when they actually try and do dramatic acting is because they've succeeded because even in their comedy they've just been focused on the truth of the thing it's interesting how they can be like way bigger than life and like how Collins is and Mrs. Bennett is but still feel like no you're that's a real person right there and like they're just being true and not acting
Speaker: Yeah, our Mr. Bingley is kind of like that.
Speaker: We're like, he's actually Mr. Bingley in real life.
Speaker: Like his personality is just so nice.
Speaker: He's like so helpful.
Speaker: He's like, can I help you like, put the chairs away?
Speaker: Can I, you know, and like, he's like a golden retriever personality.
Speaker: Yeah, that's Bingley.
Speaker: And it was just, it was funny because I felt like I didn't have like all that many options for Mr. Collins.
Speaker: And then he shows up and he had Mr. Darcy on his form.
Speaker: And then like halfway through,
Speaker: he came back up and up to us and he's like, no, no, no.
Speaker: I want to be Mr. Bingley, not Darcy.
Speaker: Mr. Bingley is my preferred.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, you got it.
Speaker: And he was just so cute.
Speaker: I'm like, he's great.
Speaker: I'm so excited because he's very new.
Speaker: This is only his second show ever.
Speaker: He's new to theater and I'm just really excited to like work with him.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: I think that's cool too when you have like a younger or newer actor.
Speaker: I think when it's something that's closer to them, you can get more nitpicky about things because they're not trying to inhabit something totally different.
Speaker: So you can just really strip away and be like, okay, you already are very much embodying this character.
Speaker: So now let's just make it more raw.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that's cool.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's going to be awesome.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: I'm excited to see it.
Speaker: I'm going to jump into mental health here some.
Speaker: Sad.
Speaker: I could talk about pride and prejudice all day.
Speaker: That's good for my mental health.
Speaker: Now we see a positive example.
Speaker: i want to hear nate though like once you're yes like you said so many are great but as we were talking my mind is on mr bennett he's just so funny in a different way that um and specifically again in the 95 version but i think the book too um
Speaker: And he's hilarious.
Speaker: The way that he just enjoys the ridiculousness of people.
Speaker: It's like, oh, good.
Speaker: I get to laugh at these people now.
Speaker: It's just, it's really great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel like I see Mr. Bennett-ness in you.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I'll take it.
Speaker: He's not like the most admirable character, but he is fun.
Speaker: So I'll take that.
Speaker: I mean, it might be better than being like, oh, I see Mr. Darcy, because he's pretty much not very friendly for a while.
Speaker: He kind of sucks.
Speaker: I played Mr. Darcy in like a, it was like a sequel to Pride and Prejudice.
Speaker: It was called Miss, Miss, Christmas at Miss Pemberley.
Speaker: Yeah, it was Miss Ben at Christmas at Pemberley.
Speaker: So it focused on Mary.
Speaker: But she came and visited Darcy and Elizabeth.
Speaker: It was actually a really solid script.
Speaker: Yeah, it was really good.
Speaker: Surprisingly good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know how well I inhabited Darcy, but it was a blast.
Speaker: I thought you did good.
Speaker: Well, thanks.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That would be cool to see.
Speaker: I'm really curious about that script now.
Speaker: Oh, it's fun.
Speaker: It's really well written.
Speaker: It's got the Jane Austen vibes and language to it.
Speaker: Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Speaker: They feel true to the characters.
Speaker: Isn't that... There's a new character in that too, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Is that guy a new character?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So the main male protagonist is a cousin of Darcy's named Arthur.
Speaker: And so him and Mary get together and they're both like nerdy people.
Speaker: But he just feels like he fits right into that world.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's very, you can tell the author, the writer put a lot of care into that to try and make it feel true to the essence of it.
Speaker: And it's fun because Anne de Berg shows up and she thinks that she's supposed to marry this Arthur guy, just like she was supposed to marry Darcy and causes all kinds of trouble.
Speaker: Oh, that's hilarious.
Speaker: Lots of fun.
Speaker: So Lady Anne actually speaks in your script where she doesn't speak in my script.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: She's rather pushy and obnoxious, really.
Speaker: Which is that part's different.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you're gonna love our Mr. Bennett.
Speaker: I will say he is amazing, especially considering he's never done theater.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Like, probably...
Speaker: If I have to think about people that don't have any notes, it's probably him right now.
Speaker: Just based off of the read-through, I'm like, he's so good.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: You were just the instincts, man.
Speaker: Nobody sent him this episode, though.
Speaker: Don't tell him he has no notes or he'll be like, I'm perfect.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: No, he's so humble.
Speaker: But I'm just going off of the read-through.
Speaker: I'm sure I'll have lots of notes for him later.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I do often feel like I get to like a read through or like a first blocking rehearsal where the only thing in my head has been blocking.
Speaker: And I'm looking at the cast and I'm like, oh, shoot, they're already doing everything I was thinking of right now.
Speaker: I don't know what I have to tell them now.
Speaker: And then something comes up.
Speaker: I always have this little panic moment early on.
Speaker: Too good.
Speaker: Am I just useless?
Speaker: Oh, no, I think that's probably maybe not normal.
Speaker: I feel like as a director, I have that feeling sometimes too.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, no, like, what if like they don't like what if when I'm directing them, they don't understand what I'm trying to like say.
Speaker: And then they just look at me like, what are you saying?
Speaker: Do you even know what you're doing?
Speaker: And like, it's like the insecurity of like a director comes out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: especially adults.
Speaker: I feel like kids are easier to work with, but adults, it's like, well, kids don't know anything and adults think that they know everything.
Speaker: I'm like, if I try and direct an adult, they're going to be like, um, uh, I know.
Speaker: Cause I'm an actor.
Speaker: And sometimes I go, he's a really good director though.
Speaker: He's directing me in a show right now.
Speaker: Yeah, it's great.
Speaker: So I'm curious, delving into the mental health aspect, are there like specific benefits that you see from theater in mental health, either in your own mental health or in other people's like ways that it's been helpful to them?
Speaker: Yeah, so...
Speaker: I've also studied this a little bit.
Speaker: And statistically, there is like the science of it or whatever you want to call it, surveys, you know, like
Speaker: a huge percentage, I think it was like 89% say it helps with self-confidence, which I thought was really cool.
Speaker: And then like 52% says it helps with anxiety.
Speaker: So just doing like the arts, like helps that much of those two things that I think are such a huge thing when it comes to mental health.
Speaker: Obviously you want to have some self-confidence in yourself.
Speaker: You don't want to have anxiety.
Speaker: But for me, I think a lot of it is,
Speaker: just an outlet to be so creative with other community, other people that are like-minded and in the community of it.
Speaker: And also I just feel like it helps you.
Speaker: Like it helps think about other things other than yourself and your own, whatever you're struggling with.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like you can kind of even hopefully lean on your cast a little bit.
Speaker: If you're close to them, you can, they can kind of like family and it can become just a really safe place to, um,
Speaker: to be yourself, I think, and not to feel, at least for me, like I've always felt like theater, I belonged.
Speaker: Whereas like, or even in high school and stuff, I was never like the popular person.
Speaker: I always kind of felt like I was like, I didn't fit in with anybody.
Speaker: I just, I was friends with everybody.
Speaker: So I didn't really have like a clique or club or anything.
Speaker: But there was theater and that kind of was like my thing.
Speaker: That's where I belong.
Speaker: That's
Speaker: where I felt like I could be myself and it wasn't, I wasn't judged for being this dramatic teenager, you know, whatever.
Speaker: But yeah, it's just, it's a very, I feel like it can be a very comforting place in the right type of setting.
Speaker: Like, obviously I think there's some theaters, maybe they aren't, they don't make you feel that way, but, but in my experience, a lot of productions and places, it's been really nice to just,
Speaker: to just feel like you're kind of, I always say, I'm with my people, my theater people, my people that, you know,
Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: So the community for me is a lot of that.
Speaker: Sorry, that was kind of a long answer.
Speaker: No, you're good.
Speaker: That's beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah, it makes me think I just did an acting class.
Speaker: I finally got to take, I feel like maybe we were talking about this last time we talked, but I finally got to take an acting class on Meisner, which I love.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: But I've never been able to actually do the exercises and things myself.
Speaker: So that was really great.
Speaker: But there was a really big emphasis placed by the teacher on...
Speaker: saying this is a safe place and we're going to take a little bit of time to like get to know each other at the start of each class and talk about what's going on in life.
Speaker: And we're going to make sure that we know that what happens here emotionally kind of stays here emotionally, not in a negative sense, but in like, it's okay to walk through it.
Speaker: You're not making each other uncomfortable, but whatever you're bringing to the table here is allowed.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: And it was great.
Speaker: And he was like, this is like a laboratory setting, which is a phrase I stole.
Speaker: But it's just like this idea of like, we're just going to come and we're just going to bring ourselves and experiment with acting and with our emotions and know that it's okay to just be.
Speaker: Um...
Speaker: And I think that that's beautiful.
Speaker: I think that's beautiful in any community.
Speaker: Like, I think, I think a lot of times a Christian community when done well can be that and should be that.
Speaker: Where, you know, come as you are type.
Speaker: of idea, but I think the arts embodies that really well, especially when you have a director and a leadership team that's really intentional about putting that forward and saying, we're going to create this environment.
Speaker: where it's okay for you to fall down and cry because we've got a cushion here and we're all here to hold you and walk through that and experience that here.
Speaker: And then just let it be okay, both here and outside of here and beyond.
Speaker: I think that's really amazing.
Speaker: Oh, for sure.
Speaker: I know I talked about it last time a little bit, that we talked, but...
Speaker: There's been, there was one episode while I'm on TV, one show I did where you've been in the podcast world enough that was seeping into you.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: So there was a show I was doing, I was directing actually.
Speaker: And, um, um,
Speaker: It was basically like, it was such a hard time.
Speaker: And I taught this friend of mine, I actually talked to her.
Speaker: I'm like, if I bring this up ever, like, is this okay in public?
Speaker: And she's like, oh yeah, completely.
Speaker: So I just want to say, he's okay with me sharing this personal thing that happened to her.
Speaker: But a friend of mine lost her brother to suicide.
Speaker: And it was like two or three weeks before our read through.
Speaker: So like the whole show was like cast already and like we were all planning on it.
Speaker: And it was Little Women, actually, the show.
Speaker: And so, and she was playing Joe.
Speaker: And Joe loses her sister in the show.
Speaker: And I was thinking, like, I cannot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And on top of it, she's, like, best friends of this brother of hers.
Speaker: Like, they're, like, besties.
Speaker: It's a younger brother.
Speaker: He was only 17.
Speaker: It was like tragic, right?
Speaker: And we all were like, and we were all doing this show as like a work.
Speaker: It was kind of like a show workshop.
Speaker: It wasn't like an official thing where we would like performed it and sold tickets or anything like that.
Speaker: It was like a workshop thing, but we were like loved the show.
Speaker: We wanted to work on it and we hadn't done theater in years.
Speaker: So, um,
Speaker: We were all friends pretty much.
Speaker: And so this whole, this death like affected all of us as we're all like mourning this for this family and for people that knew him so well.
Speaker: And so I was like, yeah, we're not doing this show.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But she literally texted me like that week and was like, don't even think about canceling.
Speaker: I need this show.
Speaker: Like I need to do it.
Speaker: And I was like, okay.
Speaker: That's what you want.
Speaker: Like, I actually said, don't even think about that right now.
Speaker: She's like, nope, nope, I need to think about it.
Speaker: And it was an interesting, like, shift in my thinking of like, oh, no, it's not.
Speaker: It's not that she can't do theaters that she needs right now.
Speaker: Like, and that was like so.
Speaker: It ended up being such a healing and crazy time because it wasn't just her.
Speaker: It was like everybody else in the show had different reasons they were doing this workshop.
Speaker: And there were some really, let me just say, I had really talented people doing this workshop thing that just had missed theater and they needed to be in it.
Speaker: So, you know, and that was where I got this idea of like mental health and alive and where I was going to call a theater one day.
Speaker: And because for myself, I was going through a lot of depression because I was going through a miscarriage at that time.
Speaker: And there was just it was just a lot.
Speaker: It was like that was going on.
Speaker: Somebody hadn't done theater in years because they had major back problems and they got to be in it.
Speaker: But through that, it was like seeing the cast like work through like the characters feelings, but then also like the emotions and the feelings of obviously what
Speaker: personally, especially the person that played Joe is going through.
Speaker: And I remember her and Marmee, the girl who played Marmee, she told me, she was like, she was able to actually pull out some like raw stuff that like I needed to process.
Speaker: Like theater and the show and these characters, like helping these people process and get through such a hard time and pouring themselves into something instead of
Speaker: I was just like, you're doing this theater thing.
Speaker: So I don't know.
Speaker: After that, I was just like, wow, like, like theater is so important.
Speaker: And like, it became really important to me to keep giving people an opportunity to have a safe place and to
Speaker: to grow through the experience and to process what they need to process.
Speaker: And I saw that again when I directed Peter Pan Jr. So it was a bunch of kids, but there was things at the end of that show when there was a girl that's like, I lost one of my best friends and this show has been such a comfort for me just to be part of during this hard time.
Speaker: And she was like, I just wanted to say thank you.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: It's like those moments you're like, this is so much more than just performing.
Speaker: Like this is about community and like people and people's hearts and they just, they matter and like we need each other.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: I just wanted to share that because I think it really demonstrates like the importance of how it can help mental health.
Speaker: That's huge.
Speaker: It makes sense because it seems like kind of the perfect collision of things because, like you said, it's a community, a community of love if a leader is setting that up.
Speaker: But it's also we're interacting with a story and our own lives are stories.
Speaker: And so that makes those things real.
Speaker: cross paths with each other so that you bring up those processing things, but then you're processing it in an environment of love.
Speaker: And so that's really beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's every time you've brought up the mental health aspect of theater, there's been, I feel like you and I have talked about maybe that I feel like it's that little women experience that's brought it to mind.
Speaker: Cause I think we've talked about it a couple of times before, but I,
Speaker: I'm going to talk about Hamlet, which my audience will love because I talk about it every other episode, I think.
Speaker: He was in Hamlet.
Speaker: I was, in case you didn't know.
Speaker: But my wife played Ophelia in Hamlet, which was very exciting.
Speaker: But there were a few people who were like,
Speaker: is this a good idea?
Speaker: Because she struggled with some pretty intense depression.
Speaker: And Ophelia, if you know the story, if you don't, I'm going to spoil it.
Speaker: Sorry, audience.
Speaker: Probably committed suicide.
Speaker: And so it's like,
Speaker: You have to walk through things that kind of intersect with some of your heaviest moments.
Speaker: Is that going to be good?
Speaker: And she was like, oh, it's going to be great.
Speaker: She was just 100% convinced that it was just going to be wonderful, that she would have no issues with it, and that it would be cathartic.
Speaker: And it absolutely was.
Speaker: There was something about...
Speaker: walking through even like the intersection with some of the darkest times she's ever had.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That for her was really healing and important and cathartic.
Speaker: Like important enough that we've talked before, like if we ever had a daughter, she's like, I wouldn't name them Ophelia because of the connotations.
Speaker: But if it weren't for the connotations, I would name them Ophelia.
Speaker: Ophelia.
Speaker: And so I just think it's so remarkable.
Speaker: And I've seen that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: go wrong before where it intersects with the darker side of one's life.
Speaker: I feel like we talked about that last time.
Speaker: Maybe we'll talk about it in a little bit.
Speaker: So I've seen where that can not be beneficial to somebody.
Speaker: But for her, walking through parallels to her own dark, challenging, emotionally harrowing times
Speaker: it seemed to give her strength and, um, yeah, it just let her confront it in a new way.
Speaker: I think that was really beautiful and, and new and really cool to see both as her husband as, and as an actor.
Speaker: Um, yeah, it was really neat.
Speaker: So yeah, I, it is interesting that way that
Speaker: Because my instinct a lot of times as a director too is to be like, if this is too much, let's just leave it.
Speaker: But yeah, I think a lot of times being pushed towards those uncomfortable things.
Speaker: So you can push through.
Speaker: Yeah, it can be a healing thing.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Do you have any experiences where for you doing a show or doing something was growing for you either for, I don't know if there's specific examples or anything, so if not, that's fine, but ways in which you've grown and benefited from a particular experience in theater?
Speaker: I'm sure there is.
Speaker: I just think of like a moment or an example of
Speaker: A show you mean or just like any?
Speaker: Could be any.
Speaker: I think a show is what I had in mind, but it could be anything.
Speaker: It could be watching a show.
Speaker: Doing props for a show.
Speaker: It's going to be pretty emotional.
Speaker: I mean, sorry, what did you say?
Speaker: I was just saying it could have been while you're doing props for a show because that can be pretty emotional.
Speaker: She made me say it twice.
Speaker: It was that good of a joke.
Speaker: It was that good.
Speaker: Okay, so let me think.
Speaker: I think like.
Speaker: There's definitely, I think some of the more serious roles I've played, I definitely can see how I've been inspired by the roles, like by the characters.
Speaker: And so I can say, grow through that experience of, you know, the character.
Speaker: Like I obviously think of Shining Lives because it was a true story.
Speaker: You're great in that.
Speaker: Oh, thank you.
Speaker: It was very much a passion project.
Speaker: Like I've always wanted to do that show.
Speaker: I'm a big history person.
Speaker: Like I love to tell history and to, especially anything that has like a message that needs to be told.
Speaker: It was, it was one of those things where like, to give the audience some context, she ends up, you know, dying from,
Speaker: radium poisoning through her job.
Speaker: She was in the 1920s and she worked in a shop.
Speaker: And so Catherine Donahue is a real character.
Speaker: You can look up and research all about that story.
Speaker: But what was crazy is that she has scenes like with her husband, with her kids and having to face the reality when she finds out that she's terminal, she can't, there's no cure, like she's going to die.
Speaker: um really was like just a lot of like things that it feels and i know like there's this is a very these are one of those roles where i know a friend of mine who actually had to not play the character she was asked to play the character she's an amazing actress and um she ended up through the rehearsal process she started to
Speaker: she started to decline to decline the she's like, I can't do it.
Speaker: Um, she said it was too triggering for her.
Speaker: It reminded her of some near death experiences.
Speaker: I think she had, and because she had the scene with the kids was too much.
Speaker: Um, and it's totally like, and that's where it's like, yeah, as a director, you need to respect that.
Speaker: Like if that's too much.
Speaker: And she's telling you that because the director wanted her to do it because she's a really great actress.
Speaker: Um, and so me playing that same kind of character, I can totally understand.
Speaker: that for me, it was such a fun challenge to like represent this character and to bring justice to her story and to, you know,
Speaker: I definitely think the second time I, cause I got to do it twice.
Speaker: We did it in Lansing and then we did it with master arts.
Speaker: And the second time it was definitely a more powerful, I think performance on my part.
Speaker: And I really think everyone's part in some ways, but my part, especially, um, I think having, cause I was pregnant with the first and then I had the baby by the second show and, um, he was only three, but he's only three months then.
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: um so it was i was probably like i was like crying like you know acting but it was a lot easier i feel like to reach in and just pull some tears out as like a mom now myself and some of those scenes and i don't know i don't even know why i'm getting to this but i guess all that to say like um i really was like you know what life is short and we need to like i feel like i grew as a person and just in the sense of like
Speaker: appreciating what we have and our families we have because we never know how much time we have and oh that story is just it's so tragic but it's also so like beautiful and it's like the most one of the most well-written script scripts i've ever read and so i had to do it i was like it's such a good script um but but yeah it was it was a it was yeah it's such a cool story to be part of because it was such a important
Speaker: thing where people is like really still happens today right people get greedy people cut costs and they don't think about how it affects our health how it affects so many things right and so i'm just really passionate about that so i was like we need to tell the story and so i remember the last show we did in grand rapids last time i'll ever play that character um i guess i was getting emotional like christine was getting emotional at the very end of it and i started to find this
Speaker: like i need to keep it together one more line but i was like doing the final monologue of katherine donahue and it was like it's such a powerful moment um but like how special as as us as actors that we get to experience that like that's beautiful are there any negative
Speaker: aspects to theater that you've seen as far as people's mental health times where it's not been good.
Speaker: I guess we kind of touched on a little bit with your friend who didn't want to go and play the role of Catherine because of how it was almost triggering and hit like some things that she was like, yeah, this is not healthy for me to step into.
Speaker: Are there times for yourself or with other people that you've seen that happen?
Speaker: Um, I can't think of anything that's like, besides that example, I, um, I do feel, I feel like actors need to be careful, definitely be careful of like knowing themselves, knowing what's good for them, what's not good for them when it comes to diving into a character.
Speaker: I mean, we've seen
Speaker: we've seen examples in TV with actors.
Speaker: I won't even name.
Speaker: I'm sure we're all thinking the same person where it's like, you go a little too crazy, you go a little too much into character.
Speaker: And it's like, that does happen.
Speaker: And it's understandable as actors that we get so involved in it.
Speaker: And then it's like, okay, let's not, let's not actually have this affect our personal life.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, you know, I do a couple of things to kind of always keep, I always talk about my character as like, this is her character.
Speaker: this is what she's doing.
Speaker: I don't say me or I, at least I try not to just because it's very separate and I like to keep things that separate.
Speaker: But I do think that actors need to be careful.
Speaker: They need to know their boundaries.
Speaker: So there's that aspect of theater that, yeah,
Speaker: that for sure you can you yes for sure you need to be careful but then there's also another aspect that i wanted to talk about because it's also really important and that is the you know we talk about how it makes us feel alive and everything and when it's a community we belong but there is a sad part of theater and it's when you you get to an audition you do your job and you do you do a good job and you feel great about it but you don't get cast
Speaker: feeling of rejection and that can be really painful and um especially if you have a number of them in a row or you know maybe there's a streak where you're not getting in shows or maybe it's just a show you're like really loud like it's your favorite show and you get to finally audition for it and you don't get in i mean that can really wreck you and really make you sad so i think i mean i think a lot of actors can relate like
Speaker: That's hard.
Speaker: It's been hard for me.
Speaker: I mean, I've definitely had moments of crying over not getting a show before, especially when I feel like I had it.
Speaker: I was like, what happened?
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: But it's where it's like, okay, we need to remember that our identity and who we are as people and people with talent and gifts, like that isn't everything.
Speaker: Like we have other qualities and we have other things we can do with ourselves when we're not acting.
Speaker: And so just remembering to like have that balance of,
Speaker: Like, okay, yes, I got rejected, but that's okay.
Speaker: Like there's probably around the corner and trying to keep that positive mindset.
Speaker: Because I mean, I just had to say no to 30 people that I would have loved to work with.
Speaker: And a lot of them actually were people I know personally too.
Speaker: And all of them reached out and they're like, yeah, I'm having a really hard time.
Speaker: And I'm like, it's like awkward for me because I'm like, I'm sorry.
Speaker: But like, also like, no, it was not, you know, it was a hard like show to get in.
Speaker: And so yeah,
Speaker: Yeah, I just encourage actors, like, remember that, like, your identity is not all wrapped up in theater and you are more than just not getting the show, right?
Speaker: Like, there's other shows out there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That can be a downside that can really get depressing and frustrating, especially if you struggle with depression already and you're looking for something to, like,
Speaker: help distract you that's that can be really scary when it's like i'm gonna put all my distractions to this and if it doesn't work out or even if it does work out like you need to have a balance right we need to have some of that so yeah i think that's that's important for you to hear john because someday you might not get the lead part i've already not gotten the lead part usually though i'm just josh you kind of
Speaker: Does Johnny even understand what she's talking about at all?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I think that's important.
Speaker: There was like a season where...
Speaker: I made the mistake of telling God one day.
Speaker: I was like, God, if you ever want me to not do art for a while, then I won't.
Speaker: Because God's supposed to be the most important thing.
Speaker: And then there was a stretch of a year where it's like, okay, John, you're only going to do backstage and you're only going to do bit parts.
Speaker: And it's going to come right off of your two best roles that you've done so far.
Speaker: After those two roles, it's going to be like a year and a half of nothing for you.
Speaker: Have fun.
Speaker: You're going to specifically get the roles you didn't want to get.
Speaker: But I think that was helpful because I had to say, okay, I'm not just these characters that I play.
Speaker: I'm not an actor.
Speaker: That's not all that I am.
Speaker: I act.
Speaker: I love to do that.
Speaker: That is a core part of how I live my life, but it's not the bedrock of it.
Speaker: I feel like it's similar to how I've been describing...
Speaker: I've like landed in a denomination now, which is weird for me because I've generally been a fairly like anti-denominational person in the faith.
Speaker: But recently I've been like, oh, shit.
Speaker: You've given that up, though.
Speaker: I've given that up.
Speaker: Now I think that my denomination's the only one and you're all hate.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: He still talks to us, though.
Speaker: I'm still over here in the floating, like, I love... You know, we're all working together.
Speaker: We're all the body.
Speaker: And that's really where I am theologically.
Speaker: And so as I've been piecing this together, I'm like, okay, how do I parse out?
Speaker: I'm kind of falling in love with this...
Speaker: denomination or this tradition but also i don't think it's the it's not the bedrock i want to build my life on yeah so i've been talking about this is the way that i'm christian but it's not it it this isn't my religion
Speaker: Yeah, it's your way of the way.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I think art can be similar.
Speaker: That's actually why it's called artists of the way.
Speaker: Because it's the name of the podcast.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: But I'm like, we should all have our bedrock on Christ.
Speaker: And the path that we are walking is that path.
Speaker: the path of Christ that Christ laid out for us.
Speaker: But if he made us to be artists, we're going to do that artistically.
Speaker: And so as we go, we're artistic, but it's not what all of our hopes and everything is resting on.
Speaker: We do it as we go, but some seasons we may do it less.
Speaker: Some seasons we may do it more.
Speaker: Some seasons we might be a lead.
Speaker: Some seasons we might not be a lead.
Speaker: Some seasons we might be able to write.
Speaker: Some seasons we may not be able to.
Speaker: Whether because we don't feel inspired artistically for some reason or because we don't have space.
Speaker: So I think that that's important to differentiate because you can still own that it's a core part of you without making it like everything, you know, and putting all of your worth on it.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: That's important.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it could be sweeter for holding it with an open hand.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: What are...
Speaker: I'll start nearing us near a close, I think, because we're getting close to our time.
Speaker: But I wanted to ask, before we go, are there any ways that you think directors in particular or people who are leaders in an artistic space and creating an atmosphere, are there things that you think they can do either in the atmosphere they're creating or things that they can do to prepare themselves for
Speaker: to work well with people's hearts and minds and emotions as they're walking through this and creating with these people?
Speaker: I mean, I don't have like a book I've written or anything, but I would say like, yeah, it's important for directors to realize that, you know, if you're going to start to like,
Speaker: kind of pull things out of them or pick at, you know, the characters and like try to reach into like, tap into different emotions and stuff.
Speaker: Just realize you might, there might be stuff you uncover where it could be maybe too much for them, or it could be a place where you can come alongside and help them heal and grow through something in their life.
Speaker: And I think that
Speaker: A director, a good director, I would hope, would realize that it's not just about an excellent show.
Speaker: Obviously, that's very important, and a director wants to find the best show they can, but it's also about the people that you now have under your care, in a sense, that are your cast, and you want to take good care of them.
Speaker: So, you know, be compassionate, be understanding.
Speaker: I think that's a big thing, is that it's kind of a lost art, is some people aren't compassionate and understanding anymore, and they're just...
Speaker: they think it's okay to be how they are, but I always think it's like, okay, understand that people are different and people have different things they're dealing with.
Speaker: And so, you know, even if you're not the right person, maybe having like an assistant or a stage manager, if you know they're more compassionate person, like maybe they can help out, you know, I don't know.
Speaker: Just, I think it's just good for directors to realize like we're working with human beings here and there's going to be times when, you know, they're, they might be holding back on a character because they don't want to go explore that area of their life.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: just really thinking through how that, how that could be a great opportunity for you to help them.
Speaker: Um, but also I think just being knowledgeable about, yeah, like the mental health side, just that it's there, it's always going to be there.
Speaker: You're working with people and you're working with emotions a lot of times and stuff with that.
Speaker: I love the phrase under that they're under their care.
Speaker: That's a great way of putting that.
Speaker: Because, yeah, we've talked about this together before, too.
Speaker: And I'm talking with, as there's conversations around Artists of the Way and where that's going, that's a big conversation piece is who are the directors we're getting and if we're doing that again and what does that need to be.
Speaker: And I think...
Speaker: Yeah, there's a huge responsibility just for anybody in leadership.
Speaker: But recognizing as somebody leading in the arts, you're not just caring for the art.
Speaker: You are also caring for the people.
Speaker: They are under your care.
Speaker: Because it is such a sensitive thing.
Speaker: Yeah, that's wonderful.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker: This has been a really, really fun discussion.
Speaker: I'm glad that our last conversation didn't work out so that we can have this one again because this is another great conversation.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it really, really has been special.
Speaker: So we can talk all night about it, I'm sure.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Thank you so much, Christine.
Speaker: Thank you again for making the time.
Speaker: I really, really appreciate it.
Speaker: Yeah, of course.
Speaker: Thank you so much for inviting me on your podcast.
Speaker: And yeah.
Speaker: You guys have to come see Pride and Pride just in June.
Speaker: Oh, we should.
Speaker: We should do a date.
Speaker: Unless I'm laid up with my wife because our due date is at the end of May.
Speaker: So we will see.
Speaker: But if we're able to make it.
Speaker: That could be tough.
Speaker: When's the show?
Speaker: Go ahead and plug it.
Speaker: When is it?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: It's June 20th, 21st, and 27th and 28th.
Speaker: And we have two shows on Saturday, 2 o'clock and 7 p.m.
Speaker: Or the 7 p.m.
Speaker: is for all the evening shows.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: We'll put information in the description so people can find it.
Speaker: And if it's at the end of June, maybe I can be there.
Speaker: Yeah, you know, you have a month-ish.
Speaker: But you never know.
Speaker: She could be late, she could be early.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: I would like to get there.
Speaker: I would love to see it.
Speaker: So fingers crossed.
Speaker: Applesauced.
Speaker: And applesauced.
Speaker: Cool.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Thanks again, Christine.
Speaker: Bye.
Speaker: Good to see you.
Speaker: Bye.
