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Shadowlands, Returning to Theatre, and God's Provision
56 Plays11 months ago
In this episode Jon invites his friend Walt Williams onto the podcast to discuss his recent return to theatre and God's provision for Master Arts Theatre in the last year.
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Transcript
Walt's Return and New Role
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello friends, welcome back to Artists of the Way.
00:00:04
Speaker
I'm John, the host.
00:00:05
Speaker
Today, I'm very excited to have my good friend, Walt Williams, on the podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
Walt is the artistic director over at Master Arts Theatre.
00:00:13
Speaker
He just returned there in 2023, no, 2024, excuse me, after a long time stint over in Florida.
00:00:22
Speaker
It's been really great to have him back, and so we just wanted to sit down and chat about what it's been like jumping back into the theatre after all these years.
00:00:31
Speaker
and just sort of what has he been learning, what's he been discovering in this new role over at Master Arts Theatre.
00:00:38
Speaker
This is going to be an audio-only episode just because I had to travel and bring the gear, so we weren't able to get a video recorded, but it is a wonderful discussion.
00:00:47
Speaker
I'm really excited to share it with you guys, so thanks for joining us.
The Power of Art in Faith
00:00:54
Speaker
So how are you doing today?
00:00:58
Speaker
Besides the throat infection, I'm doing good.
00:01:00
Speaker
Which is a great thing to have for a podcast.
00:01:04
Speaker
I know.
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, I'm really excited to talk to you because, well, A, it's just great that you're back now and doing things in this area and in this community again.
00:01:16
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:18
Speaker
But yeah, I just am excited to talk to you about what's going on in your life, artistically and spiritually.
00:01:24
Speaker
So I have a couple questions I'll ask everybody at the start.
00:01:26
Speaker
The first one is, how is God using art in your life right now?
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Speaker
Either with you creating things or you as an audience or partaker of the art, just sort of receiving it.
00:01:39
Speaker
For me, art is a door.
00:01:42
Speaker
It's because art is something that can open up the door to so many things, so many people.
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Speaker
It's a common ground that...
00:01:55
Speaker
that many people will come and watch or come and participate and come.
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Speaker
And it gives me the opportunity to meet new people.
00:02:05
Speaker
It gives me the opportunity to worship with new people because that's definitely been a thing here at Master Arts.
00:02:12
Speaker
And to tell people,
00:02:15
Speaker
And to give people hope, give people confidence.
00:02:19
Speaker
And for me, it's a door to God.
00:02:25
Speaker
It really is.
00:02:27
Speaker
Because people come to see a play when they won't come to see a sermon.
00:02:32
Speaker
So you can bring them to a play and bring them to a spot where they'll actually...
00:02:37
Speaker
Be your friend because you're in theater.
00:02:41
Speaker
Do you find do you find it true for you, too, that when you're going and watching a play or something that that can reach you differently than a sermon maybe can, even if we I know we both love sermons, but.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, oh, definitely.
00:02:56
Speaker
Definitely.
00:02:57
Speaker
I remember Pris telling this story.
00:03:00
Speaker
One of our longtime supporters was vehemently against theater and church.
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Speaker
And he, Pris took a traveling troupe to his church and he was not happy, not happy at all.
00:03:14
Speaker
But by the end of it, he told her, he said, look, you've changed my mind.
00:03:19
Speaker
You were able to reach people where most sermons couldn't by that piece.
00:03:26
Speaker
And I believe that's true.
00:03:27
Speaker
I believe people...
00:03:29
Speaker
they're more open to lessons when it comes in theater form than they are.
00:03:35
Speaker
Right.
00:03:36
Speaker
Jesus knew that.
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Speaker
They're called parables.
Walt's Current Projects
00:03:39
Speaker
Well, and Lewis talks about that too.
00:03:41
Speaker
I don't remember if it's Narnia specifically he's talking about, or if maybe he's talking about his own experience coming to Christ, but he says...
00:03:50
Speaker
for him, stories seem like a way to steal past watchful dragons in people, like these dragons that are just on the lookout for these morals and these sermons.
00:03:59
Speaker
But in a story, when we relate to the characters or we find it fun or funny or something of it is true and resonates with us, then that kind of disarms us and can work on us in some sort of subtle, mysterious way.
00:04:18
Speaker
ways that i don't know that we always even register are are working on us in those ways but they do shape us without a doubt without a doubt i believe that's true i've seen it happen so much are there stories that like that you could point to for yourself that you feel like have really shaped you in that way
00:04:39
Speaker
I'm not sure I can give you just one.
00:04:42
Speaker
I know there's many times where in watching a story or watching a play or watching that I'll actually, whoa, that's true.
00:04:54
Speaker
I knew that's true, but to apply it in that way, I never put it that way.
00:05:00
Speaker
And all of a sudden it's like, okay, yeah, I can apply it that way in my life.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:06
Speaker
That's interesting because it's kind of, I know I experienced this a lot, at least where a lot of times like I'll intellectually know something, especially about my faith.
00:05:12
Speaker
It's like I intellectually understand this about God
Balancing Theater Roles
00:05:16
Speaker
or about his love or about his mercy or justice or mystery or whatever category, but it doesn't always travel down to the heart.
00:05:24
Speaker
And it's like, well, I keep acting in the same pattern or being insecure or this or that or the other thing.
00:05:30
Speaker
But yeah,
00:05:32
Speaker
And I don't, for me, at least I don't know that it always sticks in my heart, but at least for those moments, a lot of times it's like, and for a little bit after my heart can believe it because it's seen it lived out, even if it's in the context of a story, but it helps contextualize that on that heart level.
00:05:49
Speaker
Well, because a lot of times, and I mean, I was an assistant pastor for five years.
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Speaker
So a lot of times sermons are full of, here are the... And I know this is not blanket, but it's the truth.
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Speaker
A lot of sermons are, here are the rules.
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Speaker
Here's what God says.
00:06:09
Speaker
Right.
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Speaker
And sometimes there's not a lot of application.
00:06:13
Speaker
Right.
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Speaker
Where theater is, here's the application.
00:06:17
Speaker
Guess what?
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Speaker
You just learned a rule.
00:06:18
Speaker
Right.
00:06:18
Speaker
There's a rule back there somewhere.
00:06:20
Speaker
We're not telling you what it is.
00:06:21
Speaker
It's all subtextual.
00:06:22
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:24
Speaker
That is really cool.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:29
Speaker
I'm having an abstract thought, but abstract thoughts don't pair well with podcasts because I need to keep talking.
00:06:34
Speaker
So that's interesting.
00:06:37
Speaker
Well, I feel like that's even great as an actor because it will surprise me a lot of times or as a director.
00:06:44
Speaker
I think a lot of times what's going on behind... Well, like, I'm going to talk about Hamlet again, which I feel like I've talked to death about on the podcast.
00:06:51
Speaker
But I think just by... When I was approaching that text, there's a lot of religious references in that text.
00:07:02
Speaker
Shakespeare is playing a lot with...
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Speaker
things going on in the church at his time.
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Speaker
And that is like near the Reformation.
00:07:11
Speaker
So that's all in the hearts and minds
Unexpected Leadership and Providence
00:07:13
Speaker
of everybody.
00:07:14
Speaker
Wittenberg is literally where Hamlet studies near the time of the Reformation.
00:07:19
Speaker
And none of that is...
00:07:21
Speaker
is said, and then Hamlet himself is dealing with a lot of questions about what's right or wrong, and specifically in the context of justice and eternity, and am I just and going to heaven, or am I evil, and is his uncle that he is trying to get revenge on, is he forgiven, or is he not forgiven, and he doesn't want him to be forgiven, so it's very complex, and just the more that I sort of delved into this, the more I...
00:07:49
Speaker
Just started to think about how much this is about God's grace and somebody else's perspective on Hamlet would be different This is my version of Hamlet that I played but I was just very sympathetic to him and by the end he has this beautiful speech that just surrenders to God's sovereignty and I think it's the core sort of pivotal speech for his character which I don't know that it quite redeems everything that he does because he does some not great things but
00:08:17
Speaker
I was just looking at the arc of that character and I was just like, holy crap, this is just a story of him learning to just surrender to God's sovereignty and mystery and trust that.
00:08:27
Speaker
And then I think receiving God's grace and finally not having to earn it and be the perfect man to get there.
00:08:36
Speaker
And especially because it's Shakespeare, it's so dense that all of that is very much subtextual.
00:08:42
Speaker
Like it's not coming out and saying this is what's happening.
00:08:45
Speaker
But it surprised me and is probably one of the most beautiful works of art I think I've gotten to do because of that.
00:08:55
Speaker
So on top of it being Hamlet, I also got to play this journey that surprised me of a man who was wrestling with
00:09:04
Speaker
Am I good enough?
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Speaker
And then learning I don't have to be good enough because I'm not good enough.
00:09:09
Speaker
But God is good enough to still forgive me and give justice and to, I believe, give Hamlet grace.
00:09:17
Speaker
I know his last line is debated about what it means.
00:09:19
Speaker
But I just think it's crazy how we can just, we ourselves, even as the storytellers, are disarmed and then surprised by the art.
00:09:29
Speaker
And I think that's so cool.
00:09:31
Speaker
That's one of the things I like about acting in theater is you can actually step out of your own shell and step into somebody else's shell and see and feel their journey and be part of that journey that's
Post-COVID Theater Revival
00:09:47
Speaker
written down on paper, but it's a whole story.
00:09:50
Speaker
It's a whole different person being in there.
00:09:53
Speaker
Right.
00:09:54
Speaker
And then that, at least I think for me, that shapes me as a person.
00:09:57
Speaker
Right.
00:09:59
Speaker
There's subtle ways where I feel like when I'm playing a character, it affects me.
00:10:02
Speaker
Like if I can notice if I'm deep in rehearsals, I might be walking more like the character sometimes, which is funny.
00:10:09
Speaker
But just those deep journeys of those characters, because you rehearse those emotions every night, it affects you as if you've lived through that to a degree, which is crazy because you haven't lived through that, but also you kind of have.
00:10:23
Speaker
And yeah, that's just an insane...
00:10:27
Speaker
fascinating character growth thing.
00:10:28
Speaker
Especially if you do the show like we do.
00:10:31
Speaker
You do 12, 16 performances.
00:10:35
Speaker
By the end of it, you're wore out.
00:10:37
Speaker
I know.
00:10:39
Speaker
Oh, it's so cool.
00:10:41
Speaker
So I'll jump to my next question here.
00:10:46
Speaker
You're obviously now the Artistic Director of Master Art, so you've got a lot on your plate.
00:10:51
Speaker
Artistically, what are the things you are working on right now?
00:10:56
Speaker
What are you creating?
00:11:01
Speaker
We just finished with a traveling troupe.
00:11:03
Speaker
We did eight performances of Christmas Simitie parts.
00:11:08
Speaker
And that is, we're looking at the next traveling troupe, which we're going to bring back seven last words of Christ.
00:11:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:19
Speaker
For anybody who doesn't know like the premises of those, would you mind sharing those?
00:11:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:25
Speaker
The thing about the Traveling Troop, this Traveling Troop is called the Emissary Group.
00:11:30
Speaker
Our goal is to put together a piece that could replace a sermon, which we did with Crystal's Many Parts.
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Speaker
Crystal's Many Parts is a story of – the storyline is that four people show up at a church,
00:11:47
Speaker
And the other eight people are stuck in Atlanta.
00:11:51
Speaker
And so these four people tried to redo the Christmas story by pulling Usher out of the audience.
00:11:57
Speaker
And the five of them tried to take all the parts.
00:12:01
Speaker
And Jeanette Cliff George wrote that, and she's amazing at taking a scriptural story, giving you full of belly laughs, and never once looking bad at scripture.
00:12:13
Speaker
Scripture always shines as this is truth and this is important.
00:12:18
Speaker
And so that was a lot of fun to do.
00:12:21
Speaker
The seven last words of Christ are eight pieces.
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Speaker
There are seven monologues in another piece.
00:12:27
Speaker
And they're based on seven people, and they tell their story based on one of the last words of Christ.
00:12:35
Speaker
There's Matthew.
00:12:36
Speaker
There's an adulteress that was caught.
00:12:40
Speaker
There's a rich young man.
00:12:42
Speaker
Some others, I forget when they were on my head.
00:12:47
Speaker
And those will be fun to redo because we did that.
00:12:50
Speaker
You and I did that just before COVID.
00:12:54
Speaker
We had it all set up where we could do it.
00:12:56
Speaker
We did like three performances, I think.
00:12:59
Speaker
And, yep.
00:13:00
Speaker
So I got, well, I'll get permission to do again.
00:13:04
Speaker
So I'm excited about it.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
So that's happening.
00:13:09
Speaker
I'm acting.
00:13:09
Speaker
I'm in Shadowlands.
00:13:11
Speaker
I play Joy's doctor.
00:13:13
Speaker
Nice.
00:13:13
Speaker
Nice.
00:13:14
Speaker
And so I have a fun role there.
00:13:19
Speaker
So I'm acting again, which I thoroughly love.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker
I'm directing again because I'm going to be directing In His Steps.
00:13:28
Speaker
Nice.
00:13:30
Speaker
And for those who don't know the story of In His Steps, it is the original novel that WWJD came from.
00:13:37
Speaker
The storyline is that a tramp comes to a church,
00:13:41
Speaker
And literally steps up to the pulpit and says, he says, you say that you're Christians, but you don't act it.
00:13:49
Speaker
And so four people in the church decide they're going to start their new life by starting everything with every decision with what would Jesus do.
00:13:58
Speaker
And the struggles, the persecution they get, not only from the outside, but even from the inside of the church for what they're doing.
00:14:07
Speaker
It's a very powerful script.
00:14:10
Speaker
I'm directing that.
00:14:10
Speaker
That goes up in April, May, somewhere in there.
00:14:16
Speaker
I just, well, I've been writing a piece called, we just call them the parables.
00:14:23
Speaker
And there's about 15 pieces in there that all deal with different parables.
00:14:29
Speaker
The play selection committee has already agreed to do it.
00:14:33
Speaker
And I've been working on it since.
00:14:36
Speaker
So the copy they have is different from the copy that's going to be done.
00:14:40
Speaker
But that's okay.
00:14:41
Speaker
We'll get there.
00:14:43
Speaker
You're always writing until the last moment, I feel like.
00:14:45
Speaker
Always.
00:14:47
Speaker
Let's see.
00:14:49
Speaker
I'm getting ready to do two You Summer Stocks again this summer.
00:14:53
Speaker
Nice.
00:14:53
Speaker
We did two last summer.
00:14:56
Speaker
So I'm directing, teaching, acting, writing.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
I'm...
00:15:03
Speaker
I did props for, I was one of the people who did props for White Christmas.
00:15:08
Speaker
I helped do lights for White Christmas.
00:15:12
Speaker
I helped me with costumes for Shadowlands.
00:15:15
Speaker
I'm doing quite a bit.
00:15:16
Speaker
Living a very artistic life.
00:15:17
Speaker
And loving every minute.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yep.
00:15:19
Speaker
How do you approach it differently when you're in a different role?
00:15:23
Speaker
If you're approaching, like, directing a traveling troupe versus...
00:15:27
Speaker
like working with the kids in summer stock are there different ways that you prepare for that ahead of time or how do you navigate those environments
Art and Faith Intertwined
00:15:34
Speaker
differently when you're working on those that's an interesting question or do you or do you just kind of handle it the same way well i there's
00:15:45
Speaker
There's different aspects of each of them.
00:15:47
Speaker
For instance, when you do a traveling troupe, you direct and you block and you train the actors to be versatile because you never know where you're going to get into.
00:15:59
Speaker
Right, yeah.
00:16:00
Speaker
You don't know if your space is going to be 10 feet wide or 20 feet wide or, you know, what thing you're saying.
00:16:06
Speaker
So you direct with that concept of, you know, and I tell them, I say, okay, everything is directed around this piece, a prop that you're going to put on stage.
00:16:16
Speaker
It's how far you are from that distance and how you're left and right in that distance.
00:16:21
Speaker
The kids, different.
00:16:23
Speaker
I love the kids.
00:16:24
Speaker
I love working with them.
00:16:26
Speaker
They're different than for them directing adults.
00:16:29
Speaker
And I'm going to be blunt here.
00:16:30
Speaker
Kids will listen to you.
00:16:33
Speaker
They want to learn.
00:16:35
Speaker
They're eager to try things new.
00:16:37
Speaker
They don't come up to you and say, no, I don't think so.
00:16:39
Speaker
My character should do this.
00:16:41
Speaker
Which actually have people who have told me that.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yep.
00:16:43
Speaker
That I've directed.
00:16:45
Speaker
And so I love working with the kids.
00:16:47
Speaker
I did it for 20 years straight and then went away for a couple years and I got to do it this summer.
00:16:52
Speaker
So I'm excited.
00:16:53
Speaker
So that's a different approach because it's...
00:16:56
Speaker
As much play time as it is work time, I have to admit that.
00:17:03
Speaker
Directing adults is different.
00:17:07
Speaker
It's a whole concept of when you're directing adults, you really have to be focused on the entire play at once.
00:17:13
Speaker
You've got to know every aspect of it at all times.
00:17:17
Speaker
And you'll get some great ideas, but that person hasn't read the rest of the play, so they'll understand it.
00:17:24
Speaker
So you've got to say no to people like that.
00:17:27
Speaker
So it is, yeah, everywhere you go.
00:17:29
Speaker
And acting, I love acting is different.
00:17:32
Speaker
Acting is different in a way where I don't have anything to worry about but my character.
00:17:36
Speaker
Right.
00:17:36
Speaker
That's it.
00:17:38
Speaker
And so it's a relief.
00:17:42
Speaker
And I love directing.
00:17:43
Speaker
I really do.
00:17:44
Speaker
But there's a lot to hold in your head when you're directing.
00:17:47
Speaker
It is.
00:17:48
Speaker
We're acting.
00:17:48
Speaker
You just focus on your own little thing and that's it.
00:17:51
Speaker
And I love that.
00:17:53
Speaker
So, yeah, there's different approaches and different thoughts going into each aspect like that.
00:17:58
Speaker
That's fun.
00:18:00
Speaker
So it's been, when's the last time you were in a show?
00:18:04
Speaker
I was trying to think about this and I can't remember.
00:18:07
Speaker
I literally, I think it was Lying the Witch of a Mordrobe.
00:18:10
Speaker
Wow.
00:18:11
Speaker
So it's.
00:18:11
Speaker
That was a long time.
00:18:13
Speaker
Six years then since you've acted.
00:18:15
Speaker
That's a long time.
00:18:16
Speaker
How is it?
00:18:18
Speaker
Oh, you go.
00:18:18
Speaker
I was just going to say, when I moved away to Florida, I moved three times while I was there.
00:18:24
Speaker
I mean, I lived in three different places while I was in Florida.
00:18:27
Speaker
So there was never a time to establish myself anywhere.
00:18:30
Speaker
And I didn't have a car, so that made it harder.
00:18:34
Speaker
So for two years, there was just zip.
00:18:36
Speaker
I mean, it was absolutely nothing.
00:18:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:18:39
Speaker
I did work on parables while I was there, but not a lot.
00:18:42
Speaker
There was just nothing to do.
00:18:43
Speaker
And writing scratches a different itch than acting.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
And so when I came back, I was like, let me in.
00:18:51
Speaker
Let me do it.
00:18:53
Speaker
And so I've had a chance to be in smaller pieces.
00:18:58
Speaker
I was in the mosaic, so I had a couple small pieces.
00:19:01
Speaker
The Christmas traveling troupe that I just did, I had to step in for a role.
00:19:07
Speaker
Excuse me.
00:19:08
Speaker
So I actually took a role in there.
00:19:11
Speaker
So now I'm kind of excited to be in a full-length play.
00:19:14
Speaker
This is the first one since I think, literally I think Lion, then which world was my last.
00:19:19
Speaker
That's crazy.
00:19:19
Speaker
It's been a long time.
00:19:21
Speaker
How has it been, I guess, stretching those acting muscles again?
00:19:25
Speaker
Has it felt like riding a bike or has it felt like kind of have to, I don't know, readjust or kind of work to get some stuff back?
00:19:35
Speaker
Seriously?
00:19:36
Speaker
And I know this is weird, but...
00:19:39
Speaker
It's like the years between didn't happen.
00:19:45
Speaker
I really feel like in all of my theater experience, even coming back to Master Arts Theater, it's like I know those years happen, and I know they're in my head, but they don't feel it.
00:20:01
Speaker
Getting involved in theater, doing the lights, doing all the things, it's just like I've been doing it ever since.
00:20:07
Speaker
Right.
00:20:07
Speaker
Right.
00:20:08
Speaker
I fit back into that shoe so quickly and so easily that it was like, I know those years exist.
00:20:17
Speaker
I remember them.
00:20:17
Speaker
I remember Haiti not being in theater.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yep.
00:20:20
Speaker
But it was like stepping in, you know, stepping into a warm, comfortable pair of pajamas and keep going.
00:20:28
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:20:28
Speaker
And it really feels great.
00:20:31
Speaker
That is exciting.
00:20:32
Speaker
Has your role in Shadowlands been fun?
00:20:34
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:20:35
Speaker
Cool.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, I actually have two roles.
00:20:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:38
Speaker
I'm one of C.S.
00:20:39
Speaker
Lewis's friends when they have – they eat together and drink together a lot.
00:20:44
Speaker
And I made that sound bad with saying to drink together a lot.
00:20:47
Speaker
That's what I meant.
00:20:49
Speaker
I mean, they went to pubs.
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:53
Speaker
And that's a small role that I start with and end with.
00:20:56
Speaker
But the main role is actually the doctor in between with all the stuff they do.
00:21:01
Speaker
So it's been fun.
00:21:03
Speaker
I'm horrible at accents.
00:21:05
Speaker
That's been the hard part.
00:21:08
Speaker
They say I'm doing pretty good, but it's still, it's a struggle, struggle for me.
00:21:14
Speaker
But I'm enjoying it.
00:21:16
Speaker
I'm loving it.
00:21:17
Speaker
It's been interesting trying to memorize it because in the middle of that, I had to memorize the piece from the Christmas thing, which is a totally comedic character compared to this very non-comedic character.
00:21:29
Speaker
Right.
00:21:31
Speaker
And I'm still struggling with it.
00:21:33
Speaker
But I'm getting there.
00:21:34
Speaker
And the British do not talk like Americans at all.
00:21:36
Speaker
Right.
00:21:37
Speaker
It's very different.
00:21:38
Speaker
Because just even phrasing things, you know, like I would never say it in that order.
00:21:45
Speaker
Ever say it in that order unless I'm on stage being somebody else, being the doctor.
00:21:50
Speaker
So it's been a struggle.
00:21:52
Speaker
But...
00:21:53
Speaker
A good struggle has been fun.
00:21:55
Speaker
It's one of those struggles you're like, okay, I'm ready to stretch this one.
00:21:59
Speaker
So that's been a lot of fun.
00:22:00
Speaker
How often is the doctor on?
00:22:02
Speaker
Because Joey's not sick for all of it.
00:22:04
Speaker
How many scenes are there?
00:22:05
Speaker
I have three scenes with her.
00:22:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:07
Speaker
With her and him.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
Mostly with him.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah, mostly with him.
00:22:13
Speaker
I have more scenes with him than I do with her.
00:22:15
Speaker
Oh, and I guess I should give a summary, too, for anybody who doesn't know.
00:22:19
Speaker
Shadowlands, if you don't know, I just kind of assumed people would know, is the story of Louis and his wife, Joy, who were only married a short time before she fell ill and then passed away.
00:22:32
Speaker
And so it's kind of their love story, but then also the story of his grief and wrestling with that.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:40
Speaker
But playing the doctor in that situation has got to be an interesting, meaty role.
00:22:47
Speaker
Well, it's interesting because in the part, the doctor himself never says the word death or dying, even though that's obviously what's happening.
00:23:01
Speaker
And Lewis even says at one point, he says,
00:23:04
Speaker
Doctor, use words that I understand, like dying, getting better, getting healthy.
00:23:10
Speaker
And my line back to him is, those words don't meet the case.
00:23:16
Speaker
So it's been interesting because the doctor...
00:23:20
Speaker
avoiding those harsh words, playing that, feeling coming from that perspective.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
You know, because I'm the kind of person who want to hear, I want to hear death.
00:23:33
Speaker
I want to hear dates.
00:23:33
Speaker
I want to hear this.
00:23:35
Speaker
I want to hear those words.
00:23:35
Speaker
Cause that's what I understand.
00:23:37
Speaker
And that's what CS Lewis keeps telling my character.
00:23:41
Speaker
but playing it from his, I don't know if he's trying to, I think he's trying to be compassionate in what he says.
00:23:50
Speaker
So it's been interesting trying to play that compassionate being asked not to.
00:23:56
Speaker
So it's been a, it's been actually, it's been a fun role to play because it's not just a doctor saying, okay, here's the numbers, here's the stats, I'm going to walk out.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:05
Speaker
It's been somebody who has... He has a real depth of a character.
00:24:09
Speaker
He's a real character.
00:24:10
Speaker
He's more than just one-dimensional.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker
And he's been fun.
00:24:14
Speaker
That's cool.
00:24:15
Speaker
That's a fun dynamic.
00:24:17
Speaker
That's neat.
00:24:18
Speaker
So...
00:24:20
Speaker
Not long after you came here, you were asked to step into the artistic director position at Master Arts.
00:24:27
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:30
Speaker
That was a surprise.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:33
Speaker
Coming back to Master Arts thinking I'm going to get my old job back, which I did.
00:24:37
Speaker
For a little bit.
00:24:38
Speaker
For a little bit.
00:24:41
Speaker
Literally, you're talking from January 8th to January 27th.
00:24:46
Speaker
19 beautiful days.
00:24:47
Speaker
19 beautiful days.
00:24:49
Speaker
And, I mean, they gave me a call on a Saturday.
00:24:53
Speaker
I was literally at Wally's Treasures looking through an antique store.
00:24:58
Speaker
And I get this phone call.
00:24:59
Speaker
And they're like, where are you?
00:24:59
Speaker
I told them we're at.
00:25:00
Speaker
And they're like, you have to be at this meeting now.
00:25:02
Speaker
I'm like,
00:25:03
Speaker
excuse me, we're going to come pick you up.
00:25:06
Speaker
That's how I found out things were going, that Tim was going to resign and how that was going to happen.
00:25:13
Speaker
So major changes.
00:25:15
Speaker
And then they asked me to be, they said, we want you to be the intern for now.
00:25:22
Speaker
And I said, as a totally honest, I do not want this job, but it's obvious how God has set this up.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:32
Speaker
You know, that I came in the time I did and that it was me and just it's obvious that God set this up.
00:25:39
Speaker
So I'll do whatever has to get done.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
The best thing that happened was literally every single person on the board stepped up and helped.
00:25:49
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:25:50
Speaker
You know, seriously, every single one of them were doing something and that started to help with something.
00:25:56
Speaker
So that made that transition a little easier.
00:25:58
Speaker
And then once, because Luke was on the board and once they asked Luke to be the executive and they voted on that, that separated the job.
00:26:07
Speaker
Luke is now the executive and I'm the artistic director.
00:26:09
Speaker
Right.
00:26:10
Speaker
And that made things easier because I am the artistic person.
00:26:14
Speaker
Right.
00:26:14
Speaker
I have zero business sense at all.
00:26:17
Speaker
I mean, just none.
00:26:19
Speaker
And Luke is perfect for that because he has no artistic sense at all.
00:26:22
Speaker
He'll admit it.
00:26:24
Speaker
You know, he'll totally admit it.
00:26:26
Speaker
He doesn't.
00:26:26
Speaker
But he is a business person.
00:26:28
Speaker
And so he and I worked well together.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
What's it...
00:26:35
Speaker
What's it been like, I guess, leading in this time of transition for the theater?
00:26:40
Speaker
Obviously, we've talked about how much God is blessing and leading as well.
00:26:45
Speaker
But what's it been like for you being in that position during this transition time for Master Arts?
00:26:51
Speaker
I have seen God bless and do some amazing things this year.
00:26:58
Speaker
If I was to write down 10 stories of my life at Master Arts, five of them at least would be this year.
00:27:06
Speaker
Because God has changed and done so many things to the Master Arts this year.
00:27:11
Speaker
It's just...
00:27:14
Speaker
It's shocking and it shouldn't be.
00:27:19
Speaker
So it's been wonderful.
00:27:22
Speaker
It's been, and I tell people that I look at things and decision-making and I shake my head and go, but this has never been done this way before.
00:27:33
Speaker
Then I grab some of his coattails and just ride through the door with them because so much has changed and so much has been fixed and taken care of.
00:27:40
Speaker
I mean, just all the things that have happened this year, the donations have just been out of this world helping.
00:27:47
Speaker
And I think, I think we're seeing finally, master artists finally seen after COVID effects.
00:27:57
Speaker
For instance, I,
00:27:59
Speaker
The touring team.
00:28:00
Speaker
We did not know if it would even be feasible.
00:28:03
Speaker
People would want touring teams back to their churches.
00:28:05
Speaker
Well, and we'd even tried a little bit.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:08
Speaker
And it hadn't really picked up.
00:28:10
Speaker
Uh-uh.
00:28:11
Speaker
But we had eight, and the team said, that's it.
00:28:14
Speaker
We can't do more than eight.
00:28:16
Speaker
I had to turn away people.
00:28:17
Speaker
That's great.
00:28:17
Speaker
For Christmas, which is... Well, not good.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:20
Speaker
But it's cool that there's that much demand.
00:28:22
Speaker
So it surprised us.
00:28:24
Speaker
This summer, when the Youth Summer Stock was happening...
00:28:28
Speaker
Luke comes to me and says, we need to put a cap.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I was like, you know, we never get more than 30.
00:28:34
Speaker
We can do 30.
00:28:35
Speaker
He's like, let's at least put a cap on 30.
00:28:36
Speaker
I'm like, okay.
00:28:38
Speaker
So then we put a cap on 30, and we get a bunch of people that said, I was in it the last two years.
00:28:44
Speaker
How can I not be in it this year?
00:28:45
Speaker
So we opened another.
00:28:47
Speaker
So we ended up with 20 in the second one.
00:28:51
Speaker
So we ended up with 50 kids this summer.
00:28:53
Speaker
Gosh.
00:28:54
Speaker
And so I think we're really seeing it and what audiences we're seeing it.
00:28:59
Speaker
We literally have heard multiple stories of people said, this is the first show I've seen since COVID.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
And so I think Mass Arts has finally seen the release of the COVID curse, whatever you want to call it.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:17
Speaker
And that they're finally coming back.
00:29:21
Speaker
And not just patrons, but even actors.
00:29:28
Speaker
Cheaper by the Dozen, we've got three adult actors who haven't been in our theaters for literally 10, 15 years in acting.
00:29:36
Speaker
And they're back.
00:29:37
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I know there are others.
00:29:39
Speaker
Because one of my old friends...
00:29:42
Speaker
came and um auditioned he didn't get a part but he auditioned and he hasn't been involved in master arts for almost 20 years wow and so we're seeing we're seeing a resurgence of of wanting people wanting to see shows and that and we're blessed at that we've we've hit that wave this year that's awesome you know so that's been exciting
00:30:04
Speaker
What lessons do you feel like you've been learning or just what have you kind of been learning and discovering in this new role and in this new season for yourself and at the theater?
00:30:15
Speaker
It's a lesson that I've taught.
00:30:17
Speaker
You know how you teach a lesson all your life and all of a sudden God has to teach it to you?
00:30:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:21
Speaker
You know, and stop putting God in a box.
00:30:25
Speaker
Stop saying God can't do this.
00:30:29
Speaker
Just the finances that my brain said, it's never been done.
00:30:33
Speaker
There's no way we're going to do it.
00:30:34
Speaker
And we've done it.
00:30:36
Speaker
You know, and just multiple things like that.
00:30:39
Speaker
How God has just blessed every day.
00:30:41
Speaker
And the thing about all these blessings is...
00:30:45
Speaker
God has been wonderful at doing it in such a way as we have to just look at amazement and say, there's no other way but God who could have done these things.
00:30:57
Speaker
Period.
00:30:58
Speaker
He's given us a blessing in such a way we can't give credit to anybody but him.
00:31:04
Speaker
And that's been exciting.
00:31:05
Speaker
And that's been a good lesson for me to stop putting God in a box and stop saying, it can't happen because it never happened before.
00:31:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:31:14
Speaker
And like I said, I've taught it, but I've had to learn it this year.
00:31:20
Speaker
Big time.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
That's so cool.
00:31:23
Speaker
I definitely, I think something cool about seeing God act in that way too.
00:31:29
Speaker
For me, when I see that, I think it reminds me that these things are really his.
00:31:33
Speaker
I've had that with Artists of the Way and with Godspell as well, where as I was leading up to Godspell, I was like, okay, if this happens at all, it's because God provided for this to happen.
00:31:44
Speaker
Because there's no way that I as a 20-something can raise the...
00:31:50
Speaker
large amounts of money that Godspell ended up costing relative to like me and what I earned income.
00:31:55
Speaker
And I think relative to community theater show production, like it was expensive.
00:31:59
Speaker
I was like, if this goes forward at all, it's God.
00:32:02
Speaker
And then seeing him come through
00:32:05
Speaker
you don't feel an ounce, maybe an ounce, but that's the ego talking.
00:32:10
Speaker
But outside of that ounce of your ego that you have to shut off, you look at that and you're like, okay, I didn't get us here.
00:32:18
Speaker
God got us here.
00:32:19
Speaker
This is God's thing.
00:32:21
Speaker
And whatever he's doing with that next is God's thing.
00:32:24
Speaker
And I'm so blessed to be in the position God's put me in with it and to be a steward of it in some ways and his servant in that way.
00:32:33
Speaker
But,
00:32:34
Speaker
It's always ultimately his.
00:32:36
Speaker
And so I just, even beyond seeing him do amazing, incredible things that are wild and successful and cool, then just the reminder of he is God and we are humans.
00:32:49
Speaker
And everything we accomplish, we actually don't accomplish, we receive from God, which is crazy.
00:32:57
Speaker
It's a good way of saying it.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's true.
00:32:59
Speaker
And we're still active participants, but we still...
00:33:04
Speaker
just receive it.
00:33:05
Speaker
And I just think, and I've seen that a lot at Master Arts this year in the places I've been involved with Godspell, with my own personal life.
00:33:17
Speaker
Just the way God provides and the reminder that he's really the one that sustains it and provides everything.
00:33:25
Speaker
And I love that.
00:33:26
Speaker
I love the fact that it's God doing it.
00:33:30
Speaker
You know, I really...
00:33:35
Speaker
Am I in the right space where I'm supposed to be?
00:33:38
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:33:40
Speaker
You know, and I have it so good.
00:33:42
Speaker
And I have it so good only because God is their blessing constantly.
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, he's constantly blessing.
00:33:50
Speaker
And not just theater life.
00:33:53
Speaker
I mean, in my own personal life, he's been blessing like crazy.
00:33:56
Speaker
And that's been, it's the best place to be.
00:34:01
Speaker
You know, it really is.
00:34:04
Speaker
That's great.
00:34:06
Speaker
So I wanted to ask as well, you are one of the people with the most seniority in the Christian theater community here in Grand Rapids.
00:34:16
Speaker
I feel like of the people heavily involved right now, there's probably only a couple others I can point to.
00:34:22
Speaker
Maybe Brad Garnott is one who has a similar amount of like...
00:34:27
Speaker
experience and consistency of having been in it for so long over the years.
00:34:32
Speaker
What do you think is important about having Christian theater and a Christian community theater?
00:34:40
Speaker
Um...
00:34:44
Speaker
The thing about Christian theater is I think we work both directions.
00:34:51
Speaker
We let Christians know that there's a safe place to come and practice your arts.
00:34:57
Speaker
And we let non-Christians know that they are safe to come into a position here.
00:35:05
Speaker
So we're kind of a...
00:35:09
Speaker
a meeting place between the two without giving up God at all.
00:35:16
Speaker
Because I know there's a lot of places that pretend to be Christian and draw you in and they're really not.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I know it's vice versa.
00:35:25
Speaker
I know it goes both directions.
00:35:27
Speaker
Where as Christian theater, we give...
00:35:34
Speaker
We give people, I don't know how to say this word.
00:35:39
Speaker
I don't know what word to use.
00:35:40
Speaker
But we give people a focus, a place to look at and say, okay, this feels like some place I can go.
00:35:48
Speaker
And I can feel wanted.
00:35:50
Speaker
I can feel...
00:35:54
Speaker
Needed.
00:35:56
Speaker
Because that's something we've learned this year, too, is people need to feel needed.
00:36:04
Speaker
They need a place where they can come and not be criticized because...
00:36:10
Speaker
Their character is too loud or whatever.
00:36:14
Speaker
They feel like they want to work here.
00:36:16
Speaker
They want to be part of the MassDarce Theater because we treat them like they're people.
00:36:21
Speaker
There's no bullies here.
00:36:23
Speaker
We make sure that.
00:36:25
Speaker
There has been, yeah, there has been, but God is blessing, and we make sure that gets taken care of right away.
00:36:34
Speaker
We are a place where people can...
00:36:39
Speaker
where we can reach out to the non-Christian world and say, hey, just, you know, we're not going to proselytize you, but come and find out how Christians really act, not how somebody tells you they're acting.
00:36:54
Speaker
You know, the media has this image of Christians, and most of those are serial killers.
00:37:01
Speaker
You know, I mean, I'm sorry, but that's what happens in movies.
00:37:06
Speaker
And we're not.
00:37:07
Speaker
Come find out.
00:37:07
Speaker
We're not, you know.
00:37:10
Speaker
And then also Christians that are afraid to get out there to actually find out, to actually practice their talents.
00:37:21
Speaker
Here's a safe place for you to come and practice your talent.
00:37:23
Speaker
Here's a place where there's other people who are talented like you, and we'll talk.
00:37:27
Speaker
talk like you and talk about plays and talk about acting and talk about that kind of stuff.
00:37:33
Speaker
So we have both as a Christian theater.
00:37:35
Speaker
We have both.
00:37:35
Speaker
We have giving Christians a place to practice and have fun and giving non-Christians a place where they can come and have fun as well.
00:37:46
Speaker
You know, and find out that some of us aren't as bad as what you saw are, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:37:51
Speaker
So,
00:37:52
Speaker
I love that.
00:37:53
Speaker
I feel like that is just a microcosm of the church in some ways.
00:37:59
Speaker
Like when it's functioning as well as it should be, but in this sort of niche artistic focus.
00:38:05
Speaker
Like...
00:38:06
Speaker
And I think that that's true for most Christian arts groups, but that we are the church and we are living as the church in this artistic way.
00:38:17
Speaker
But we're also trying to serve the world and be available to the world and create a place where people from the world can come and be safe and be loved and be accepted as people.
00:38:30
Speaker
Right.
00:38:33
Speaker
But then we're still able to still operate in a very distinctly Christian way.
00:38:39
Speaker
And those two don't have to go against each other.
00:38:42
Speaker
And I think theater especially is uniquely equipped to be sort of that middle ground between the church, I guess, like institution and the world.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
In a ways that like if the church were trying to do this outreach, it wouldn't.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like we had conversations with,
00:39:02
Speaker
When we were doing Godspell, because at one point it looked like we might lose our performance venue.
00:39:09
Speaker
And so we were talking about, well, where else could we do it?
00:39:12
Speaker
And we talked about maybe trying to see if we could do it in the church we were renting for rehearsal spaces.
00:39:17
Speaker
And my assistant director was like, I really think if we do that, we're going to lose some of what we're trying to, some of the opportunity we have for ministry.
00:39:26
Speaker
Because
00:39:27
Speaker
As soon as we're connected to a church or doing it in a church, a lot of the people we want to come see this show are not going to come see this show.
00:39:35
Speaker
It's true.
00:39:35
Speaker
But by it being sort of its own standalone artistic thing, even as it's Christian, I think...
00:39:42
Speaker
there is some more level of comfortability or approachability there, which is interesting.
00:39:48
Speaker
But then it can still be just as distinctly the church, the people of God doing what the people of God do.
00:39:54
Speaker
And I think that's just such a cool, unique opportunity for ministry for everybody involved.
00:40:00
Speaker
It is.
00:40:02
Speaker
It's a great place to be.
00:40:05
Speaker
For me, it's the best place to be.
00:40:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:40:10
Speaker
Well, we're getting near our time here.
00:40:13
Speaker
One of the questions I forgot to send you, but I always ask at the end, so I don't know why I forgot to send it to you.
00:40:20
Speaker
But I always ask, what are some resources you'd recommend for people who want to either grow as artists or grow as Christians?
00:40:28
Speaker
Because I've really relied on some self-study and things that I've sort of gleaned by being in shows and from people, but I don't have any resources.
00:40:37
Speaker
super formal artistic training.
00:40:39
Speaker
So I try and create a catalog of those resources for people.
00:40:44
Speaker
So what are things for you as a writer or director or actor or as a Christian that you're like, these are core things, core influential things?
00:40:52
Speaker
Well, when I research any kind of thing that I'm going to teach here, I go to the internet because it's so full of stuff.
00:41:01
Speaker
So I don't have any, like, one specific person to look to.
00:41:08
Speaker
There are a few people that you hear names over and over, Udhagen, Stanislavski.
00:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, I can't say that word.
00:41:16
Speaker
Stanislavski.
00:41:17
Speaker
Thank you.
00:41:19
Speaker
People like that who have some great...
00:41:23
Speaker
insight to acting in the theater.
00:41:28
Speaker
Somebody to say like how to run a Christian theater, I don't think there's a good book out there yet.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:34
Speaker
Because I don't, I mean, I've been involved, I've been involved since 1994.
00:41:38
Speaker
So I've been involved a while.
00:41:39
Speaker
30 years now.
00:41:40
Speaker
Wow.
00:41:40
Speaker
It's been 30 years.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:47
Speaker
I'm going to make you feel old live on radio.
00:41:51
Speaker
Wow.
00:41:53
Speaker
It has been 30 years, hasn't it?
00:41:54
Speaker
That's true.
00:41:58
Speaker
That just broke my brain.
00:42:00
Speaker
I didn't think of it like that.
00:42:05
Speaker
But I don't think I could even write a book right now.
00:42:09
Speaker
Because there's so much to it, and it's so much of a God thing that it's hard to put.
00:42:19
Speaker
There's no path.
00:42:21
Speaker
You just follow God.
00:42:22
Speaker
And he's clearing a path through all of this.
00:42:25
Speaker
Well, I think that's true even just for a theater in general.
00:42:29
Speaker
I feel like any theater and how it's run, unlike...
00:42:34
Speaker
probably regional or below level.
00:42:37
Speaker
It's just like, well, this is the way we did it.
00:42:39
Speaker
And that somehow worked for us.
00:42:40
Speaker
And as Christians, that's the way God provided and made it work for us.
00:42:46
Speaker
But it's just, and it's the landscape's constantly changing too.
00:42:51
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:42:53
Speaker
It's great.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:57
Speaker
Re-ask your question.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:42:59
Speaker
So as far as for people who want to grow as artists or people who want to deepen their Christian faith, are there resources you'd recommend?
00:43:12
Speaker
For me, that's two separate issues, but not kept separate.
00:43:21
Speaker
I wouldn't go to the theater to...
00:43:27
Speaker
Enhance my faith to learn more about God specifically.
00:43:30
Speaker
Right.
00:43:31
Speaker
That you need to find a good church.
00:43:33
Speaker
And good churches are hard and few.
00:43:36
Speaker
Between.
00:43:37
Speaker
You need to find a good church.
00:43:40
Speaker
Theater, to grow in theater, you need to just get involved.
00:43:45
Speaker
Because you can read all the books you want.
00:43:51
Speaker
You can say all the words you want.
00:43:54
Speaker
But until you actually step on that stage in front of an audience, you won't learn it.
00:44:00
Speaker
Right.
00:44:00
Speaker
Well, then everything that you are going to read in a book, you have to apply to actually figure out how it works.
00:44:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:44:08
Speaker
There's an application.
00:44:10
Speaker
And until you get the application, we used to say that, like, I worked at summer camps for like four summers when I was going to college.
00:44:20
Speaker
And I used to tell people that I spent nine months learning knowledge and three months at camp learning wisdom.
00:44:28
Speaker
Nice.
00:44:29
Speaker
And that's what it is.
00:44:30
Speaker
You can learn the knowledge from both sides, but you have to come together and be on stage for the wisdom.
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:38
Speaker
Now, keep those two separate things, learn you from two different directions, and bring them together.
00:44:44
Speaker
That's where Master Arts is open for you.
00:44:46
Speaker
Because you can come here and you can pray with us.
00:44:49
Speaker
And you can come here and you can be on stage and be C.S.
00:44:52
Speaker
Lewis's Joy Davison.
00:44:54
Speaker
I can't remember how to pronounce his name.
00:44:57
Speaker
Davison's?
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah, I can't remember.
00:44:59
Speaker
I don't think that's right.
00:45:00
Speaker
It's like Dave said.
00:45:02
Speaker
I don't know.
00:45:03
Speaker
Anyway, you could be her doctor.
00:45:06
Speaker
So there's two separate things we have to learn, but then come back to Master Arts and be through the wisdom of those two separate things that you've learned.
00:45:14
Speaker
Let's see it in application.
00:45:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:16
Speaker
And they're not separate.
00:45:19
Speaker
I say the word, but that ain't what I mean.
00:45:21
Speaker
They're two important things, but this is where you get to come and bring them together.
00:45:26
Speaker
Especially as an artist, a lot of times I think learning about both would be separate.
00:45:32
Speaker
But if you are a Christian, that should be the core thing about you.
00:45:38
Speaker
And if you are an artist in any capacity...
00:45:41
Speaker
God has built you that way, which I think everybody has certain capacities of that, but then God has built you that way.
00:45:47
Speaker
So for you to be a Christian is also to be an artist.
00:45:50
Speaker
Like it's just unavoidable.
00:45:52
Speaker
I've always, I've probably talked to you about this before, but in navigating my calling and where I'm going vocationally, I've always felt like, oh, well, I'm called to ministry.
00:46:01
Speaker
But every time I focus too much on the ministry thing, God's always like, hang on, John, remember I made you to be an artist.
00:46:06
Speaker
You need to create things.
00:46:07
Speaker
And then anytime I over-focus on that, God's like, well, hang on, John, I'm calling you into ministry.
00:46:12
Speaker
And I'm like, wah!
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:13
Speaker
What do you want me to do?
00:46:14
Speaker
You're pulling me between two.
00:46:15
Speaker
And he's like, yep, they're both important.
00:46:17
Speaker
They're both important.
00:46:17
Speaker
You have to find something in the middle and he'll help.
00:46:21
Speaker
And not very many people understand that.
00:46:24
Speaker
They don't.
00:46:26
Speaker
The church that I'm involved in, they have three pastors and there's a long thing about that.
00:46:33
Speaker
So I actually took each pastor individually out to dinner and let them know who I was because they didn't know who I was.
00:46:39
Speaker
Right, because you've been out of town.
00:46:41
Speaker
Right, I've been out of town for a while.
00:46:43
Speaker
and and then explain my connection to master arts theater and they they need to understand that um i i love the church and i'll i'll do everything i can with them but master arts is my ministry right start is my home master arts is where i worship master arts is where i have my friends master arts is my job yeah it's my job too that's right
00:47:11
Speaker
And that's me.
00:47:14
Speaker
I have an advantage.
00:47:17
Speaker
I'm not married.
00:47:18
Speaker
I have kids.
00:47:19
Speaker
So I don't have a wife that I have to take care of.
00:47:22
Speaker
Kids that have to be taken care of.
00:47:26
Speaker
So I work here 40 to 60 to whenever things get done.
00:47:34
Speaker
But I don't complain.
00:47:35
Speaker
I love it.
00:47:36
Speaker
This is my play as well as my work.
00:47:40
Speaker
And so, yeah, I understand that.
00:47:43
Speaker
For me, people don't understand that sometimes.
00:47:47
Speaker
My father is always like, you could do much better working someplace else.
00:47:51
Speaker
I'm like...
00:47:53
Speaker
No, I can't.
00:47:53
Speaker
But I don't want to.
00:47:54
Speaker
I can probably make more money, but I couldn't do better.
00:47:58
Speaker
You know, because this is where I... This is every ounce of me.
00:48:02
Speaker
Right.
00:48:04
Speaker
That's cool.
00:48:06
Speaker
Okay, well, there's other things I would love to say, but I'll cut our time here and we'll keep talking after the next hour.
00:48:14
Speaker
But thank you.
00:48:15
Speaker
Thank you so much for coming on.
00:48:16
Speaker
It was great to finally have you on the podcast.
00:48:18
Speaker
Thank you for asking.
00:48:19
Speaker
Get to chat with you.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:20
Speaker
It's been fun.