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Glamour Mag: If He Wanted To, He Would Is ”Horrible Advice”
53 Plays3 years ago
What. These are fighting words.
Article: https://www.glamour.com/story/if-he-wanted-to-he-would-dating-advice
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Transcript
Introduction & Episode Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:06
Speaker
We're taking a little holiday break, and so we are releasing an episode from our Patreon called Glamour Mag.
00:00:12
Speaker
If he wanted to, he would, is quote, horrible advice.
00:00:15
Speaker
We'll be back next week with new episodes.
00:00:17
Speaker
And as always, you can check us out on our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com, on our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy, on our Twitter at fem.strat, and on our Instagram at underscore thefemaledatingstrategy.
00:00:31
Speaker
See you all with new episodes next week.
Critique of Glamour Article
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome to the bonus content.
00:00:36
Speaker
So what's on the docket today?
00:00:39
Speaker
So this week we have an article from Glamour magazine and it's called, If he wanted to, he would, is horrible relationship advice.
00:00:49
Speaker
I hate it already.
00:00:51
Speaker
I hate it already.
00:00:52
Speaker
I hate it already.
00:00:53
Speaker
This woman's just declared war on FDS and we must show up for this battle.
00:00:58
Speaker
We have to respond.
00:00:59
Speaker
We must fight.
00:01:01
Speaker
By Jenny Singer.
00:01:02
Speaker
I always like to state the author because sometimes, you know, I'll assume the author is a man.
00:01:09
Speaker
Public tarring and feathering Lilith.
00:01:12
Speaker
And then as I was reading this article, I went back and was like, oh, this was actually written by a woman.
00:01:16
Speaker
Damn, like this is sad.
00:01:18
Speaker
Anyways, so let's get into it.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking up her Twitter account just to see.
00:01:24
Speaker
Just to get the dirt.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm just trying to see like what her general political leaning is.
00:01:28
Speaker
And right now she has a Condi union and like a red fist in the air.
00:01:32
Speaker
I guess the Condi Nast employees are trying to unionize.
00:01:35
Speaker
Oh, OK.
00:01:36
Speaker
I guess.
00:01:37
Speaker
Just curious.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, we'll see.
00:01:39
Speaker
We'll see.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker
Like you're trying to see which political bent of pick me.
00:01:43
Speaker
Is she like a trad femme pick me?
00:01:45
Speaker
Is she a rad femme pick me?
00:01:46
Speaker
Is she a lip femme pick me?
00:01:47
Speaker
Like what flavor of pick me are we talking here?
00:01:49
Speaker
No.
00:01:50
Speaker
I mean, it's all about this unionization.
00:01:51
Speaker
So I'm wondering if, you know, if she's still on strike, maybe she wrote this and then she's trying to sabotage the magazine.
00:01:57
Speaker
Is this like a covert sabotage?
00:01:59
Speaker
Psy-op?
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:03
Speaker
If so, based.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
Glamour's owned by Condé Nast?
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:08
Speaker
Pretty much every woman's magazine is owned by Hearst or Condé Nast.
00:02:13
Speaker
Those are the two major conglomerates.
00:02:15
Speaker
Right.
Dissecting Relationship Advice
00:02:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:17
Speaker
So, if he wanted to, he would, begins Caleb, a TikTok micro-influencer.
00:02:22
Speaker
Look, men are not dumb.
00:02:23
Speaker
And then it cuts off.
00:02:25
Speaker
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:02:26
Speaker
Let me stop you right there, Caleb.
00:02:27
Speaker
I have to interject.
00:02:29
Speaker
Would someone please lay me down on a dusty road and use my body as a dirt bike jump so I can enter a relaxing comatose state and no longer have to hear the phrase, if he wanted to, he would.
00:02:39
Speaker
That's a really specific, okay, why the dirt bike reference?
00:02:42
Speaker
It's like, I want to, that's my first thought.
00:02:44
Speaker
That's a very specific sentence.
00:02:46
Speaker
Also, like getting a motorcycle injury is no joke.
00:02:48
Speaker
Like, like you don't want to, it's not a relaxing comatose state.
00:02:53
Speaker
Let me tell you.
00:02:55
Speaker
I feel like this is an attempt at humor, but I can't tell.
00:02:57
Speaker
I feel like she was trying to be funny.
00:02:59
Speaker
It just fell flat.
00:03:00
Speaker
That's why we're not understanding.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, she's trying to be funny, and I'm just like, that's not funny.
00:03:04
Speaker
Lots of people die in motorcycle accidents every year.
00:03:07
Speaker
You shouldn't joke about that.
00:03:08
Speaker
Like, anyways...
00:03:10
Speaker
So the article continues.
00:03:11
Speaker
This platitude has come to be a constant refrain on social media as obnoxious and frequent as a car insurance commercial.
00:03:17
Speaker
It's shorthand for, as this Reddit thread explains, the idea that if a man is interested or wants to be with you, he'll figure a way to make it happen or show a woman.
00:03:25
Speaker
If he doesn't, the woman should move on because if he wanted to, he would.
00:03:28
Speaker
Let me click on this Reddit thread.
00:03:30
Speaker
Oh, it's not FTS.
00:03:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:32
Speaker
I thought
00:03:33
Speaker
Okay, okay, I'm just going to park at this Reddit thread because it's important for context.
00:03:36
Speaker
So this Reddit thread was posted on AskMen and the top comment is that... So the person is asking if he wanted to, he would like culture, is it fair?
00:03:48
Speaker
Basically, this is the idea that if a man is interested or wants to be with you, he'll figure a way to make it happen or to show a woman.
00:03:54
Speaker
If he doesn't, the woman should move on because if he wanted to, he would.
00:03:57
Speaker
The top comment...
00:03:59
Speaker
Basically says, it's pretty unfair.
00:04:02
Speaker
Plenty of blokes are afraid to make a move even if they want to.
00:04:05
Speaker
The cruel question is whether a man who's afraid to make a move is worthwhile.
00:04:10
Speaker
Okay, so you're a coward.
00:04:11
Speaker
No, they're not.
00:04:14
Speaker
No, they're not.
00:04:14
Speaker
And again, another comment is, it puts all the onus on the man, but the woman who sticks to this will probably end up settling for a second or third choice because the man she feels she deserves or wants has looked beyond her.
00:04:25
Speaker
But look, some people don't have a choice.
00:04:27
Speaker
Some people are obligated by jobs or contracts.
00:04:29
Speaker
Finding a way it might not be worth it when it forces you to break a contract or face punitive action to be with somebody.
00:04:35
Speaker
What the fuck does that even mean?
00:04:36
Speaker
He's like, I want to sexually harass my, you know, someone I'm contracted out to or someone I've contracted.
00:04:42
Speaker
And he's mad that he can't sexually harass this woman that he finds attractive at work, probably.
00:04:47
Speaker
That's what I think is happening.
00:04:48
Speaker
So a lot of guys got all up in their feels.
00:04:50
Speaker
Just reeks of laziness.
00:04:52
Speaker
I just find it odd that why did she link this thread of all threads?
00:04:56
Speaker
Because there's only three upvotes on this thread.
00:04:57
Speaker
Yeah, this is just a, how many upvotes are on this?
00:05:01
Speaker
And it's from eight months ago and there's not that many responses on it.
00:05:04
Speaker
So I'm wondering if she just didn't want to link female dating strategy.
00:05:08
Speaker
I mean, but even like some of the more pick me subs on Reddit, if it's female dominated, they would say if he wanted to, he would as well.
00:05:16
Speaker
This author has just clearly gone for selection bias and picked a thread that basically just shows how unfair it is to the poor men to have to do anything to get a woman.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, they had to go on Ask Men to ask all the incels.
00:05:27
Speaker
Even seem like they're that convinced about it because quite frankly, this thread is dead.
00:05:31
Speaker
There's not really that much dissent in it, even though there is dissent.
00:05:35
Speaker
And AskMen is a huge subreddit and there's only three upvotes and 50 comments on this thread.
00:05:39
Speaker
So this was just sort of a thread that got mostly ignored.
00:05:42
Speaker
It's also one of those things where like the guys who are dissenting to it, it's like their opinion doesn't really matter anyways, because it sounds like a personal problem.
00:05:51
Speaker
You know, they're not like saying that the phrase is wrong.
00:05:55
Speaker
They're not actually coming up with a disagreement.
00:05:57
Speaker
They're just saying like, I'm too cowardly to ask out a woman that I like.
00:06:01
Speaker
That's basically, and it sounds like a personal problem.
00:06:04
Speaker
And then you're seeing them trying to like flip it around on women.
00:06:07
Speaker
And I sort of feel like, again, this is where men and women fall into the trap of believing that men and women are equal in every arena.
00:06:15
Speaker
The reason why women don't have to chase is because they usually have more options.
00:06:19
Speaker
So if she wanted to, she would, you know, it doesn't work because women have more options.
00:06:24
Speaker
There's a comment
Empowerment vs. Disempowerment
00:06:25
Speaker
in there saying if she wanted to, she would kind of thing.
00:06:27
Speaker
And it's like, but what if I don't want
00:06:29
Speaker
They're just trying to flip it around and it makes no sense.
00:06:32
Speaker
It just makes no sense as well.
00:06:34
Speaker
They're so lame.
00:06:35
Speaker
They always do that.
00:06:35
Speaker
Just unimaginative.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
But anyway, so moving on.
00:06:39
Speaker
The ostensible purpose here is to like air quotes, help women save time and energy in dating, which it does by way of making them feel both undesirable and stupid.
00:06:48
Speaker
It is very popular.
00:06:49
Speaker
Wait, why would you feel stupid and undesirable?
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:53
Speaker
I'm actually confused by that statement.
00:06:55
Speaker
Like, why does if he wanted to, he would?
00:06:57
Speaker
Maybe she means the men feel undesirable and stupid.
00:07:00
Speaker
No, the woman feels undesirable and stupid.
00:07:02
Speaker
No, she says the purpose here is to help women save time and energy and dating, which it does by way of making them feel both undesirable and stupid.
00:07:10
Speaker
Is it because I'm being, this might be a generous interpretation, but the fact that it's a really, really fucked up way of looking at it.
00:07:17
Speaker
But is she saying that the phrase actually makes a woman feel undesirable and stupid because if a guy's not putting in any effort, then the woman feels like something is wrong or that she's doing something wrong, if that makes sense.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like she's internalizing it.
00:07:31
Speaker
Maybe that's it, like you're saying.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, she's internalizing that.
00:07:33
Speaker
She's basically turning it on the woman when that's not what we mean at all.
00:07:36
Speaker
If a guy's not doing something for you, it's because you're undesirable and or stupid.
00:07:40
Speaker
And that's definitely not true.
00:07:42
Speaker
That's what she's trying to say.
00:07:43
Speaker
Like, he may not be doing stuff for you, but it's definitely not true that he doesn't want you.
00:07:46
Speaker
So yeah.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's dumb.
00:07:48
Speaker
It's stupid, yeah.
00:07:49
Speaker
Again, it's fem cell energy.
00:07:51
Speaker
This is a personal problem.
00:07:52
Speaker
That's dumb.
00:07:54
Speaker
You should feel dumb about that.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:58
Speaker
You should feel dumb about that statement to say that like, oh, just because a guy does nothing for you is not making any effort.
00:08:07
Speaker
Doesn't mean he doesn't really like you or desire you.
00:08:12
Speaker
That's basically what she's trying to say, which is absolute bullshit.
00:08:17
Speaker
Yeah, basically, I don't know if a man's not making an effort, you know, instead of taking that personally and being like, oh, it means I'm undesirable or means I'm stupid, not likable or whatever.
00:08:27
Speaker
You know, he's not putting an effort because he doesn't find me likable.
00:08:30
Speaker
It's like some guys, they're just like low energy like that.
00:08:33
Speaker
And they just like, don't feel any particular strong feelings in any one direction.
00:08:37
Speaker
And that's not your fault.
00:08:39
Speaker
That's just him, you know, so don't take that personally.
00:08:42
Speaker
He's just a low vibrational dude and he'll be a low vibrational dude with any woman.
00:08:46
Speaker
This is why a lot of men end up screening themselves out of the gene pool.
00:08:49
Speaker
Also, quite frankly, like there are some men where like I'll interact with them and I can tell they're attracted to me, but I can sense that they know that they're inferior to me.
00:08:57
Speaker
And so they don't make a move.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, I've had that as well.
00:09:00
Speaker
Because they know I'd reject them.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah, same.
00:09:03
Speaker
It's like he might want to, but he's too scared.
00:09:06
Speaker
Well, he knows you're not on his level.
00:09:07
Speaker
Like it's happened to me in like online dating where a guy would like ask me out because I used to do it a lot on Skype.
00:09:13
Speaker
So he'd ask me out and I'd see the message pop up.
00:09:16
Speaker
When I went to look at the conversation, it was gone.
00:09:18
Speaker
And I actually called a guy out on it.
00:09:19
Speaker
I was like, why are you deleting messages?
00:09:21
Speaker
Because he tried to pretend that he didn't ask me out when he definitely did.
00:09:25
Speaker
And it was because, like you said, Lilith, he just knew he wasn't on my level and he didn't want to get rejected, but he wanted to try it anyway.
00:09:30
Speaker
Understand that the male ego is the most fragile thing in the world and men protect their ego like a broken fucking leg.
00:09:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:38
Speaker
Like they guard that shit like an injury.
00:09:41
Speaker
They will avoid anything that could cause their ego to be bruised or, you know, harmed in any way.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so often like if they're really attracted to a woman,
00:09:49
Speaker
They won't make a move because they know they're inferior.
00:09:50
Speaker
And again, if they're inferior, you don't want to date them anyway.
00:09:53
Speaker
So again, don't take it personally.
00:09:55
Speaker
But moving on TikTok videos with the hashtag.
00:09:57
Speaker
If he wanted to, he would have been viewed more than 155 million times.
00:10:01
Speaker
Reddit hosts dozens of discussions about the phrase again, clicking on dozens of discussions, seeing, oh yeah, it's on our dating.
00:10:08
Speaker
I feel like all these articles now are like trying to pretend like FDS doesn't exist or maybe actually just because we've gone private.
00:10:13
Speaker
So they can't link anything to FDS.
00:10:15
Speaker
Anyways, that's probably why.
00:10:16
Speaker
Anyways.
00:10:17
Speaker
The country singer Kylie Morgan put out a song called, If He Wanted To, He Would.
00:10:21
Speaker
Lyrics include, if he loved you, he would tell you.
00:10:23
Speaker
If he missed you, he would call.
00:10:25
Speaker
The article continues, is this tough love or just the slow grinding messaging that being a woman who dates men is a lifetime of waiting to be picked for a middle school PE team?
00:10:34
Speaker
Some people, okay, that's actually funny.
00:10:36
Speaker
I thought that was funny.
00:10:37
Speaker
I feel like once again, why is she waiting to be picked?
00:10:41
Speaker
Right?
00:10:42
Speaker
It's kind of tough because I feel like with some women, they don't understand the entirety of the phrase.
00:10:46
Speaker
And so they make themselves feel powerless, right?
00:10:49
Speaker
Is it they feel like, oh, a man's not doing anything for me.
00:10:52
Speaker
That must mean that I'm undesirable and ugly, etc.
00:10:54
Speaker
Like,
00:10:55
Speaker
Usually with men, it's just more of a reflection of their general behavior and effort level, right?
00:11:00
Speaker
And in less a reflection of you specifically.
00:11:03
Speaker
Like sometimes it is in the sense of like, obviously if they want to be with you, then they'll make some kind of effort to do it.
00:11:09
Speaker
But it's not as if like, if a guy's just like lazy, that it's bad that he doesn't do anything to like try to keep getting with you.
00:11:17
Speaker
It just, a lot of times just means he's just straight up lazy, right?
00:11:20
Speaker
And it just means like somebody you wouldn't want to be in a relationship with anyways.
00:11:23
Speaker
Exactly.
00:11:24
Speaker
Some people who preach if he wanted to, he would are genuinely trying to be helpful.
00:11:28
Speaker
They're often addressing women who are in relationships with men who treat them poorly.
00:11:31
Speaker
And the gracious explanation is that the advice is meant to alleviate the pain of an extended projection or ghosting.
00:11:37
Speaker
We've all lived in the slow moving horror movie where you watch powerless as a beloved woman loses years of her life to a man with the personality and communication skills of a loose pubic hair.
00:11:46
Speaker
Okay, so that's a little that's a little bit more funny.
00:11:48
Speaker
I think she's right about that, but it's not even just the extended rejection or ghosting.
00:11:53
Speaker
It's just a matter of not rewarding, not like letting men just waste your time.
00:11:58
Speaker
Right.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:59
Speaker
But I feel like it's happening here is that she's taking it as no guy's going to ever do the things that you want.
00:12:06
Speaker
And so this is bad advice because you're going to have to like coax men into doing more things than not like more often than not.
00:12:13
Speaker
which I think is what she's getting at.
00:12:15
Speaker
I guess.
00:12:16
Speaker
I don't know.
00:12:17
Speaker
Like the pubic hair thing.
00:12:18
Speaker
That's weird because when you click on that, it's hyperlinked.
00:12:20
Speaker
So when you click on it, it just goes to a bunch of articles about waxing your pussy hair.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I just feel like that's a weird ad, weird product placement.
00:12:31
Speaker
Like, anyway, she writes, we all want better for our friends.
00:12:34
Speaker
Well, I'm sure the editor was like, you have to have X amount of link backs in this article.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:39
Speaker
And she's like, okay, I'll squeeze it in.
00:12:41
Speaker
Like, this seems like malicious compliance on some level.
00:12:43
Speaker
Maybe this is a troll article.
00:12:45
Speaker
I think this is a troll article, actually.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:47
Speaker
If this is a troll article, like, that's actually genius.
00:12:49
Speaker
But so the article continues.
00:12:51
Speaker
So there's a tweet here linked.
00:12:52
Speaker
It says, if he wanted to, he would.
00:12:54
Speaker
And what he ain't going to do, someone else surely will.
00:12:57
Speaker
And that's just that on that.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, so, but that's not what comes across when we say, if he wanted to, he would.
00:13:02
Speaker
What comes across is that man doesn't want you.
00:13:04
Speaker
Get it through your head.
00:13:05
Speaker
If you keep trying to make something happen with him and he keeps treating you badly, that's on you.
00:13:09
Speaker
Not only undesirable, you're also stupid.
00:13:12
Speaker
She's being very intellectually dishonest here.
00:13:16
Speaker
Nobody is saying that.
00:13:17
Speaker
And oftentimes when the if he wanted to, he would comes in, it's often in the context of, sis, you deserve a man that will do these things for you without you asking.
00:13:24
Speaker
You deserve somebody making an effort.
00:13:26
Speaker
I've not seen the rhetoric being like, if you wanted to, we wouldn't.
00:13:30
Speaker
If you stick around, you're stupid and undesirable.
00:13:32
Speaker
If anything, it's the opposite.
00:13:33
Speaker
That's why the phrase exists really in the first place.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah, it can be hard for women, I guess, who've been conditioned their whole life to value male validation and male attention as like a sort of currency or as like a social currency.
00:13:48
Speaker
And so the realization like that this man just isn't that into you or this guy doesn't want you can be, you know, women also have an ego, right?
00:13:57
Speaker
Like men and women have an ego.
00:13:59
Speaker
So it can bruise the female ego, I guess, as well.
00:14:01
Speaker
But, you know, that's where emotional maturity comes.
00:14:04
Speaker
comes in and just being like, okay, like, he's not that into me, and then just moving on, instead of taking it personally.
00:14:10
Speaker
You know, the way she's talking about it, it's like, this man isn't into me, and now I'm going to have an existential crisis about it.
00:14:16
Speaker
You know, that's just not necessary.
00:14:18
Speaker
And to be honest, in my experience, the women who resist the if he wanted to, he would message the most, the ones who are in relationships where the man is making no effort, and they're trying to rationalize staying.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah, this is also for your friends who are tired of hearing you complain about a man that you're with when you know that that friend is never going to do anything about it.
00:14:40
Speaker
If you've ever been a friend to someone who's going through that, eventually you're just like, girl, if he wanted to, he would because you're tired of hearing them complaining.
00:14:48
Speaker
It's like, well, he's not doing this and he's not doing that.
00:14:50
Speaker
Or what does this mean?
00:14:51
Speaker
And what does that mean?
00:14:52
Speaker
And eventually it's just like, you're spending so much time worrying about it.
00:14:55
Speaker
It's really, really stressful for both you and me listening to it.
00:14:59
Speaker
So I feel like that's just become the go-to advice for tired friends who are tired of holding, hand-holding their friends through bad relationships when they haven't yet seen the light.
00:15:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
So
Personal Needs in Relationships
00:15:10
Speaker
moving on.
00:15:11
Speaker
This phrase centers the power in heterosexual relationships firmly on men.
00:15:15
Speaker
If he wanted to, he would.
00:15:17
Speaker
Stop caring so much about what straight men want.
00:15:19
Speaker
They care enough.
00:15:20
Speaker
Sorry, that's so stupid.
00:15:22
Speaker
Stop caring so much about what straight men want.
00:15:24
Speaker
Like, oh, if they were gay men, would his opinion matter more?
00:15:27
Speaker
I still don't understand how this makes the man more powerful.
00:15:31
Speaker
How does it center the power in heterosexual relationships with
00:15:34
Speaker
If anything, I'd say the power, this phrase actually gives power to women because it helps women realize like, oh, if he's not putting effort into me, I'm going to leave or you should leave, actually.
00:15:44
Speaker
You know, it doesn't say that in the phrase, but the logical conclusion to it is that you should leave or should stop putting effort into men who aren't investing in you.
00:15:51
Speaker
Right.
00:15:51
Speaker
That gives more power to the woman, in my opinion, as opposed to if you didn't say that phrase and, you know, the woman just kept investing in a relationship with a do nothing man.
00:16:01
Speaker
That's actually empowering to men.
00:16:03
Speaker
Like that what gives power to men is women investing in relationships in them where he doesn't have to expend any effort.
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:09
Speaker
So I think what she's complaining about from reading the rest of it.
00:16:11
Speaker
So she says, if you wanted to, he would stop caring so much about what straight men want.
00:16:15
Speaker
They care enough to make up for everyone else on earth.
00:16:18
Speaker
If your friend is in a relationship with a shitty guy, the last thing you should worry about is what he wants.
00:16:22
Speaker
What does she want?
00:16:22
Speaker
Does she want to be with a person who displays deep levels of caring and listening and equal part in all things?
00:16:27
Speaker
What she's saying here is that by saying, if you wanted to, he would, you're making it seem like what the man wants is the thing you should think about.
00:16:36
Speaker
I guess I kind of see her point there.
00:16:38
Speaker
I kind of do.
00:16:38
Speaker
But I guess the point being like, if he wanted to, he would.
00:16:42
Speaker
And then yes, you should follow up with questions about like, is this the kind of relationship that I want where a man is just doing the bare minimum and doesn't want to do nice things for me?
00:16:52
Speaker
No, that's not what I want.
00:16:53
Speaker
And then you move on.
00:16:54
Speaker
Right.
00:16:54
Speaker
Which I feel like that tweet really outlines, right?
00:16:56
Speaker
Like the tweet that we read above was like, if he wanted to, he would.
00:17:00
Speaker
And what he ain't going to do, someone else surely will.
00:17:02
Speaker
And that's just that on that.
00:17:04
Speaker
So basically that's the entire phrase.
00:17:07
Speaker
And it seems like she just took one piece of it and is taking issue with the one piece.
00:17:11
Speaker
It's just more or less to stop yourself from like considering all the reasons why he might not be doing something.
00:17:17
Speaker
And I think she's applying it to other things it doesn't apply to.
00:17:20
Speaker
If you wanted to, he would is basically just saying like, stop worrying about all the reasons he's not doing the things he's supposed to do.
00:17:26
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:27
Speaker
So one good phrase to substitute for if he wanted to, he would is your boyfriend is an asshole.
00:17:32
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:17:33
Speaker
It's not the same concept at all.
00:17:37
Speaker
No.
00:17:37
Speaker
Because someone could actually be a perfectly nice person and not an asshole and still not doing the things.
00:17:43
Speaker
Like what I actually like about if we wanted to, he would.
00:17:45
Speaker
It's like he just doesn't want to.
00:17:47
Speaker
It doesn't make him out to be a bad guy or a villain or anything like that.
00:17:50
Speaker
He just doesn't want to, you know?
00:17:52
Speaker
So again, don't take it personally.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, he either doesn't want to do it for you or he's a lazy piece of shit, right?
00:17:58
Speaker
And either way, that's not your problem.
00:18:00
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:02
Speaker
someone can be lazy but not necessarily a bad person you know yeah so it sort of depersonalizes it which is what i like like your boyfriend is an asshole that's a phrase that would get a woman's backup that's the thing like the woman writing this article is very unskilled in the art of persuasion like if you're talking to a female friend and you say if he wanted to he would she's gonna get that she's gonna understand what that means if you say your boyfriend is an asshole she's gonna be like well fuck you lilith like look at your man the
00:18:31
Speaker
He does this and that.
00:18:32
Speaker
Like, she's not gonna have a positive response to that phrase.
00:18:36
Speaker
Your boyfriend is an asshole.
00:18:38
Speaker
You know?
00:18:38
Speaker
Oh, then she continues.
00:18:39
Speaker
Or if you're worried about alienating your friend, try.
00:18:41
Speaker
It sounds like you prioritize his needs, but he doesn't do the same.
00:18:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
I say stuff like that all the time.
00:18:46
Speaker
That's better.
00:18:46
Speaker
I don't know.
00:18:47
Speaker
It just feels like I'm not really sure what her point is with this article.
00:18:50
Speaker
Is it that the phrase is meaningless?
00:18:52
Speaker
Is it that the way it's being said?
00:18:54
Speaker
Like, I don't get what her beef with this phrase actually is.
00:18:57
Speaker
I feel like this is just an article that's written just to create internet content.
00:19:02
Speaker
Generic internet content.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's just words with a bunch of ads in it.
00:19:08
Speaker
Like it has no actual argument.
00:19:10
Speaker
Or potentially it's a Cope article as well.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah.
Introversion and Dating Dynamics
00:19:14
Speaker
To be fair, I've seen a couple of these floating around, like mainly a certain subreddit where women are waiting to be proposed to.
00:19:20
Speaker
And it's sort of the same, it's the same arguments they're making here.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah, I have to say there's a lot of articles floating around the internet where they complain about some like FDS-ish advice and they're complaining about how like, it's so annoying that like dating isn't the way that I want, but they're also shooting the messenger.
00:19:37
Speaker
Like, it's very weird.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's what's kind of weird about this.
00:19:41
Speaker
It seems like she got triggered because for some reason when people said if he wanted to, he would, she felt like that was saying that if a guy doesn't do things for you, that you must be undesirable.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, she took it as an indictment on herself as opposed to an indictment on the man.
00:19:57
Speaker
She's taking it personally.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, she continues, or maybe I notice he treats his dog better than you.
00:20:02
Speaker
Okay, that's another phrase that probably would get a woman's back up, but sometimes...
00:20:08
Speaker
Honestly, though, sometimes you have to actually did have a friend where her boyfriend was did actually treat her his dog way better than he treated her.
00:20:16
Speaker
And I was like, damn, like, he got his dog this and this and this and he didn't even get you this like, okay, like, I just sort of like, implied like that, you know, he treats his dog better than you kind of thing.
00:20:27
Speaker
And like, yeah, it's fucking sad.
00:20:29
Speaker
Like, don't be in relationships with men like that.
00:20:31
Speaker
Jeez.
00:20:31
Speaker
This article is confusing.
00:20:32
Speaker
Because then right next
00:20:34
Speaker
That sentence, she says, women in shitty relationships do not need emotional bludgeoning by more fortunate women or smug lectures by strange men.
00:20:40
Speaker
But I feel like if he wanted to, he would is way nicer than your boyfriend is an asshole and he treats his dog better than you.
00:20:47
Speaker
Isn't that more emotionally bludgeoning than just saying if he wanted to, he would?
00:20:52
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:53
Speaker
And again, she's shooting the messenger.
00:20:55
Speaker
The woman is in a shitty relationship.
00:20:57
Speaker
How is that, you know, you telling her it isn't the same amount of emotional bludgeoning than her being in it?
00:21:03
Speaker
I would feel worse if someone told me, oh, he treats his dog better than you than if someone had said to me, yo, if he wanted to, he would.
00:21:10
Speaker
If he wanted to, he would.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
Once again, like very confused.
00:21:14
Speaker
He had generic internet content.
00:21:17
Speaker
Generic internet content with no argument, you know?
00:21:20
Speaker
No actual argument, yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, like if my friend said, oh, your man treats his dog better than he treats you, yeah, I'd feel devastated.
00:21:27
Speaker
Whereas if he wanted to, he would.
00:21:28
Speaker
Like, why are you taking that phrase so much more personally, right?
00:21:31
Speaker
That phrase is much more impersonal than he treats his dog better than you, right?
00:21:36
Speaker
That is definitely more emotional bludgeoning.
00:21:39
Speaker
Glamour magazine likes to hire these like fresh out of college, very confused young women to write articles about things they don't know about at all.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, because they can pay them like $20,000 a year.
00:21:49
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the quality that we're getting here.
00:21:53
Speaker
So women in shitty relationships do not need emotional bludgeoning by more fortunate women.
00:21:58
Speaker
Huge eye roll to that.
00:22:00
Speaker
I've met a lot of women in bad relationships where their man doesn't treat them right.
00:22:03
Speaker
And instead of getting angry at their man or having higher standards or dating a different man or literally fucking anything, they'll get mad at quote unquote, more fortunate women and lash out at them.
00:22:14
Speaker
And like, yeah, it's just very sad.
00:22:17
Speaker
We kind of touched on that in our episode about how to level up your pick me friends.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:22
Speaker
I can't remember what the actual title was of that episode.
00:22:24
Speaker
But I mean, that is the risk, right?
00:22:26
Speaker
Whenever you try to help your friends and be like, I think you deserve better.
00:22:29
Speaker
In fact, I know you deserve better and you can do better.
00:22:31
Speaker
And even if on some off chance that you couldn't, it's certainly not wasting your life on this.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, my boyfriend might treat me like shit and neglect me and forget my birthday and he broke my dog's legs.
00:22:42
Speaker
But it's really hurtful of you to point that out to me.
00:22:44
Speaker
Like, women will be in the worst relationships ever in the moment you'd be like, hey, that's not normal or, you know, this is terrible or whatever.
00:22:51
Speaker
It's like, that's what crosses the line is another female friend pointing it out to her that that's not acceptable.
00:22:56
Speaker
Like, yeah, I don't understand it.
00:22:58
Speaker
But...
00:22:59
Speaker
Anyways, back to the article.
00:23:00
Speaker
Often, if he wanted to, he would, is applied to women who are in the early stages of talking or dating men and are still teetering between some form of commitment and total estrangement.
00:23:08
Speaker
It's true that these unlabeled situationships can be infuriating and heartbreaking where lack of communication or intentional manipulation on one person's part can keep the other person hoping fruitlessly for more.
00:23:19
Speaker
But I'm sorry, some of you have never dated an introvert before.
00:23:22
Speaker
Oh my god, okay.
00:23:23
Speaker
No.
00:23:24
Speaker
Oh god, here we go.
00:23:26
Speaker
No, no, here comes the pick me.
00:23:28
Speaker
Okay, I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt up until now, now.
00:23:31
Speaker
Up until this paragraph.
00:23:34
Speaker
But I'm sorry, some of you have never dated an introvert before, and it shows some of you have never romanced a person with a beautiful heart and a debilitating anxiety disorder.
00:23:42
Speaker
If you live by this adage, you will never connect with anyone who is an overthinker,
00:23:46
Speaker
Okay, pack it up and bring it back.
00:23:48
Speaker
Because I feel like, once again, I guess we could talk to Dr. Jess Taylor about this too, but there's a lot of pathologizing that comes from media and, you know, around different types of mental illnesses and different types of disorders.
00:24:02
Speaker
And that's directed towards women.
00:24:04
Speaker
And with women, it's always like, may as an excuse to like discredit you.
00:24:08
Speaker
But when it comes to men, it's always an excuse for why they can't do shit.
00:24:11
Speaker
And it really irritates me.
00:24:13
Speaker
Or to justify their shitty behavior.
00:24:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:16
Speaker
Just either shitty behavior.
00:24:18
Speaker
And this is an example.
00:24:19
Speaker
It's like, oh, he can't call you on the phone because he has crippling anxiety.
00:24:22
Speaker
I'm like, well, how are you living right now, sir?
00:24:25
Speaker
Like, how are you alive?
00:24:26
Speaker
Right?
00:24:26
Speaker
Because if you can't do basic things, then I don't understand how you're going to make it through life.
00:24:30
Speaker
Right?
00:24:31
Speaker
And the thing is, it's completely okay.
00:24:33
Speaker
Even if let's say they did have a debilitating anxiety disorder, it's perfectly okay to not want to deal with that.
00:24:39
Speaker
It's perfectly okay to just be like, this ain't for me.
00:24:42
Speaker
Like, I really hate this narrative that if we have a certain set of standards or boundaries that involves a guy making even a scrap of effort, that we could be missing out on somebody who's got this.
00:24:53
Speaker
I was like, well, I'm not missing out if I don't want it in the first place.
00:24:56
Speaker
I don't want to date somebody who is so crippled with anxiety that they're struggling to get me something for my birthday because they're so anxious they'll screw it up.
00:25:05
Speaker
Fuck that shit.
00:25:06
Speaker
And there's plenty of guys who don't have that who I'll be happy with.
00:25:10
Speaker
So this whole idea that all you might be missing out is nonsense.
00:25:13
Speaker
Also, quite frankly, like, this might make me sound insensitive, but I don't want to date a guy who is that much of an introvert that they can't function.
00:25:22
Speaker
That's completely fair.
00:25:23
Speaker
That's totally fair.
00:25:25
Speaker
And we get in hot water all the time with FDS for saying, like, I don't want to date a man who's mentally ill.
00:25:29
Speaker
Like, just point blank, I don't want to date a man who's mentally ill.
00:25:32
Speaker
And I feel like that's not, like, mean to say, but they're like, oh my god, that's ableist.
00:25:36
Speaker
I don't care if that's ableist.
00:25:38
Speaker
It just becomes a crutch for all of their terrible behavior.
00:25:41
Speaker
I think that's why so many of us are turned off by it because I don't feel like women get nearly as much of leeway to be terrible people because we have any type of mental disorder or mental illness, whereas men do, right?
00:25:54
Speaker
women are actually more likely to have anxiety and depression than men and yet you don't see like when a woman doesn't call a man back or something the man's never like oh well maybe you know she's depressed like men never make excuses for women like this like i don't think we should be making excuses for men like this like men will use their anxiety to sort of be like like i cheated on you because i have anxiety or something right like they'll use it as the most ridiculous excuse and it's not ableist or anything like that to say you don't have patience for that shit it's
00:26:22
Speaker
And I'm an introvert, but even I wouldn't want to probably date another introvert.
00:26:27
Speaker
I think in this case, opposites attract because I think we'll just end up like hermits in the house.
00:26:31
Speaker
I kind of want somebody who's opposite to me and will like challenge me and push me to go outside my comfort zone sometimes.
00:26:38
Speaker
So even I would skip an introvert as, especially an introverted man, as an introverted, as an introverted woman as well.
00:26:45
Speaker
Because again, you also have to remember, like, it's just not equal.
00:26:48
Speaker
Like say you had an introvert.
00:26:50
Speaker
you know, being introverted often comes with, you know, low self-esteem.
00:26:53
Speaker
Not always, but sometimes it does, right?
00:26:55
Speaker
So if you're going out and they're staying at home, they're sitting there thinking, is she cheating on me?
00:27:00
Speaker
Is she looking at that guy differently?
00:27:01
Speaker
Like, I don't want to deal with that shit.
00:27:03
Speaker
Like, I just don't.
00:27:04
Speaker
It doesn't
00:27:05
Speaker
I just feel like those guys are actually in the minority.
00:27:07
Speaker
And then the off chance that that's actually the case.
00:27:09
Speaker
Like I feel what happens is women just assume there must be something else going on and give these guys the benefit of the doubt.
00:27:16
Speaker
Like maybe he's got anxiety or maybe he has all these issues why he can't be the way he is.
00:27:20
Speaker
And like we said, it doesn't really matter if that's, if you need this to be happy and in a relationship, it doesn't really matter what's going on with the guy.
00:27:26
Speaker
It's not your responsibility to try to like fix him or whatever's going on so that you can maybe get some crumbs of attention or crumbs of support that you need in a relationship.
00:27:34
Speaker
Like she's doing all this to like set up the idea that, oh, you might have to romance a guy who's got anxiety and can't do this or can't do that.
00:27:41
Speaker
But it's like, why is that?
00:27:42
Speaker
If you have needs in a relationship, like why is it on the woman always to sacrifice her needs?
00:27:46
Speaker
Because this guy's got emotional problems.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:49
Speaker
Plus, honestly, I just want to state that I have a double standard in this area where I like women who are introverted.
00:27:55
Speaker
I don't like men who are introverted, especially in a relationship.
00:27:58
Speaker
I think dating an introverted man is like just constant.
00:28:01
Speaker
Like, yeah, like Savannah said, like having to reassure him that I'm not cheating on him, reassure him that he's so great, you know, just requires constant emotional coddling.
00:28:10
Speaker
They're boring.
00:28:11
Speaker
They don't want to go out and do things.
00:28:13
Speaker
I feel like there's a difference between introverts and people with low self-esteem, though.
00:28:16
Speaker
Because I've dated introverts, but they don't all have low self-esteem.
00:28:18
Speaker
Like, I haven't had to, like... I mean, some of them do.
00:28:22
Speaker
There's extroverts with low self-esteem, too.
00:28:24
Speaker
That's what I was saying.
00:28:25
Speaker
Don't think because a guy's loud in the life of the party, he doesn't have low self-esteem.
00:28:28
Speaker
Like, I don't know.
00:28:29
Speaker
Maybe this is just because of my own issues.
00:28:31
Speaker
But I can spot a low self-esteem extrovert.
00:28:34
Speaker
True.
00:28:35
Speaker
No, I can spot those, too.
00:28:36
Speaker
But I will say that, like, introverts...
00:28:39
Speaker
do require a lot of emotional intelligence, I guess, to manage in a relationship.
00:28:43
Speaker
In a man, that's annoying to me.
00:28:46
Speaker
In a woman, I feel like women have been conditioned to be more reciprocal.
00:28:49
Speaker
Women have been conditioned to not expect like constant caregiving from other women.
00:28:53
Speaker
And so I just vibe better with introverted women.
00:28:56
Speaker
And in fact, like just in my friend group, I'm usually the loud, obnoxious one.
00:29:00
Speaker
And, you know, going out with the introverted friend, she's usually my voice of reason sometimes, you know, and like gets like opposites attract.
00:29:07
Speaker
Like I said,
00:29:07
Speaker
They're just annoying.
00:29:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:09
Speaker
I'll just give an example of that.
00:29:11
Speaker
I've dated two introverted people, I would say quite introverted.
00:29:15
Speaker
And like both of them one time got genuinely angry with me when I didn't find one of their jokes funny.
00:29:21
Speaker
They literally said it ruined their whole evening and it started a whole argument.
00:29:24
Speaker
Now I think that's, you know, veering into abuse, but I think it's different.
00:29:27
Speaker
Like Lilith said, when it's a woman versus a man, I think, you know, let's face it.
00:29:31
Speaker
Women have more of a reason to be introverted, especially when we're picked apart over anything like more so than men.
00:29:36
Speaker
I just thought it was like, see with introverted guys, I just, just straight up think that that's their personality or like the way that they think it has less to do with mental issues or personality problems or like self-esteem issues.
00:29:49
Speaker
I mean, I don't know.
00:29:49
Speaker
That's my experience.
00:29:50
Speaker
Meaning like I don't attribute someone's introvertedness or extrovertedness to anything else.
00:29:55
Speaker
I just look at it as like, that's just their preferred way of processing information.
00:29:59
Speaker
so to speak.
00:30:00
Speaker
Like what you guys are saying, I'm like, I know plenty of extroverts that way.
00:30:02
Speaker
Like I, in fact, when I think of the relationships I've had, when I've had blowout fights with other extroverts, a lot of times it was over stupid shit like that, where a guy said something to me.
00:30:11
Speaker
I don't know.
00:30:12
Speaker
To this day, I don't know what he said.
00:30:14
Speaker
And I like fell asleep on the phone.
00:30:15
Speaker
I didn't hear it.
00:30:16
Speaker
And like, he was so mad that I like didn't hear what he said.
00:30:19
Speaker
And then I was like, you don't pay attention to me, et cetera.
00:30:21
Speaker
And I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about, man.
00:30:23
Speaker
And like, I'm trying to like both like validate what you're saying, but I'm just saying maybe that's not them being introverts so much as them just,
00:30:30
Speaker
having issues i feel like we're all saying slightly different things but my main point being that like i feel like women who are introverted when you talk to them and ask them questions they usually have like a rich inner world and like intelligent thoughts and like hobbies and opinions and stuff that i want to talk to whereas introverted men are just like npcs they just like don't have anything interesting to say i see what you're saying
00:30:54
Speaker
See what I mean?
00:30:55
Speaker
Like, so many introverted guys, you try to ask them about their hobbies, and they're like, what hobbies?
00:30:59
Speaker
Like, video games and porn?
00:31:00
Speaker
Like, those are their hobbies, right?
00:31:02
Speaker
Like, introverted guys, they don't do shit.
00:31:04
Speaker
They just stay at home and consume media.
00:31:06
Speaker
There's some introverted guys, like, I have met a handful of these guys, and these guys are rare, where, like, yeah, they do take up, like, woodworking or whatever hobbies and stuff.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, that's what I was saying.
00:31:15
Speaker
I know introverted guys with hobbies, like, and I know extroverted guys that are just about the porn and media consumption, and all they do is, like, basically gossip on Twitter, right?
00:31:23
Speaker
Like...
00:31:26
Speaker
So I'm like, I keep hearing that.
00:31:27
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know, man.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:29
Speaker
At least the extroverted guys without hobbies are interesting though.
00:31:32
Speaker
No, but here's the thing is the extroverted guys with no hobbies, they can at least have a conversation about like literally anything.
00:31:37
Speaker
Like you can at least talk to them about like what's going on in the news.
00:31:41
Speaker
Like, I don't know, celebrity gossip, like whatever, right?
00:31:43
Speaker
Like an extroverted guy with no hobbies, right?
00:31:46
Speaker
But an introverted guy with no hobbies can't hold a conversation about any of that shit.
00:31:50
Speaker
And they're boring.
Societal Expectations and Double Standards
00:31:51
Speaker
They don't have a rich inner world, like introvert.
00:31:54
Speaker
women do.
00:31:55
Speaker
I just wanted to get my like casual my Zandria out there out of the way in this episode and then move on.
00:32:02
Speaker
You just had to get your quota for each episode.
00:32:05
Speaker
My daily quota of random man hatred.
00:32:08
Speaker
Anyways, I don't know, man.
00:32:11
Speaker
I'm not willing to sit on introverted guys quite yet, but I've never dated the type you've talked about.
00:32:16
Speaker
I guess I'm seeing as many of the same problems in extroverted guys to the point where I'm like, I'm not sure it's their personality so much it is just other issues.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:32:25
Speaker
A lot of these guys do have comorbidities of other issues, whether they're introverted or extroverted.
00:32:34
Speaker
But like introverted guys just kind of like to observe the scene and they don't necessarily need to be the center of the tension.
00:32:39
Speaker
So trade off is like, you get to be the center of attention because they don't need it.
00:32:42
Speaker
True.
00:32:43
Speaker
If you're an extrovert, you love being the center of attention.
00:32:45
Speaker
And I can see why that would work.
00:32:46
Speaker
So it's like, I don't, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if he doesn't have other shit going on because then he can pay attention to whatever you have and he's happy with that.
00:32:53
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:32:54
Speaker
Once again, I'm sticking up for introverts.
00:32:57
Speaker
I think you're like a hard extrovert.
00:32:59
Speaker
I'm like semi-introvert, semi-extrovert.
00:33:01
Speaker
The people I get along with the best are the people who are similar to me, who are somewhere in the middle as well.
00:33:06
Speaker
So maybe if Savannah's like a hard introvert, you know, opposites attract.
00:33:10
Speaker
And Ro, you're a hard extrovert.
00:33:12
Speaker
I know she unmuted her mic and like ran off because she's tired of us arguing.
00:33:15
Speaker
Savannah, come back.
00:33:20
Speaker
No, I'm still here.
00:33:21
Speaker
I was just clicking around.
00:33:22
Speaker
No, I think I'm somewhere in the middle as well, Lilith.
00:33:24
Speaker
But yeah.
00:33:25
Speaker
Because once again, we have like two extroverts arguing over like whether or not introverts are worth anything in a relationship.
00:33:35
Speaker
And Savannah just disappeared in that argument.
00:33:42
Speaker
I'm just like laughing at all the times when me and Ro are arguing.
00:33:45
Speaker
Savannah's probably just in the background, just like on her Instagram or something.
00:33:49
Speaker
I'm just painting my nails in the background or like kissing my dog.
00:33:55
Speaker
Anyways, we got distracted by the anxiety disorder excuse.
00:33:59
Speaker
We're like mid-paragraph.
00:34:01
Speaker
So she continues, if you live by this adage, you'll never connect with anyone who's an overthinker or a little bit socially awkward, a little bit too much humility.
00:34:09
Speaker
The next sentence, you may miss out on a rich and rewarding experience of being with somebody who is neurotic.
00:34:15
Speaker
What an exclamation mark!
00:34:17
Speaker
She's talking like you're going to miss out on a trip to Disneyland for free.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying this, but men with low self-esteem are people too.
00:34:28
Speaker
I can't deal with neurotic guys because every neurotic guy I've ever met is also, he's also cheap.
00:34:33
Speaker
What does neurotic even mean?
00:34:35
Speaker
It means a little crazy.
00:34:39
Speaker
They're always cheap.
00:34:40
Speaker
I've never met an erratic guy who wasn't like crazy compulsively cheap and I can't deal with it.
00:34:45
Speaker
Like the type that'll like drive around the block for like, rather than just pay for parking, they'll drive around the block, drive around the block, wasting gas.
00:34:52
Speaker
And I'm like, by the time you wasted all this gas, you're going to waste more gas than the parking cost because they don't want to put money in the meter.
00:34:58
Speaker
And I'm like, it's going to be 50 cents at the meter.
00:35:00
Speaker
Like just park at the meter.
00:35:02
Speaker
You might miss out on the rich and rewarding experience of dating a mentally ill man.
00:35:06
Speaker
Like, that's what this literally says.
00:35:08
Speaker
Like, no, thank you.
00:35:10
Speaker
Neuroticism is my least preferred trait in a man.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah, mentally ill is my least, the most undesirable trait in a man is a mentally ill one.
00:35:19
Speaker
Because mentally ill men, they fucking kill women.
00:35:21
Speaker
Like, straight up.
00:35:22
Speaker
I think it's more important that women don't take these types of chances with men than vice versa, because as we can see in the era of the school shooter, that some of these guys that are, quote, mentally ill can cause a lot of damage.
00:35:35
Speaker
And it's not fair to say most mentally ill people cause this type of damage.
00:35:39
Speaker
But like, well, society enables men's behavior.
00:35:41
Speaker
And actually, when we talk about mental illness stigma, I think it is important to like de-sex it, like meaning or segregated by sex.
00:35:48
Speaker
We don't want to de-sex it.
00:35:49
Speaker
We actually want to sex it.
00:35:50
Speaker
We want to sex it.
00:35:51
Speaker
Sex it.
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, you're right.
00:35:53
Speaker
We want to sexually segregate out the discussion of mental illness and how it manifests in men versus women because it can be extremely, extremely different.
00:36:02
Speaker
And this is why we have a lot of male school shooters and pretty much very few, if maybe like two in the entire history of school shootings.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, like a mentally ill woman...
00:36:12
Speaker
might like cut herself or starve herself or commit suicide or something like that.
00:36:16
Speaker
Sorry, that's very harsh, but it's true, right?
00:36:19
Speaker
Whereas a mentally ill man might, yeah, like lash out, go on a school shooting, kill his girlfriend, annihilate his family.
00:36:25
Speaker
He's a serial killer.
00:36:27
Speaker
There's only been like one female serial killer and she was basically pushed into it.
00:36:32
Speaker
So, I mean, there's no comparing between men and women when it comes to how mental illness manifests.
00:36:37
Speaker
And I kind of don't like like how everyone kind of glosses over that.
00:36:39
Speaker
It's like, yeah, date that mentally ill guy.
00:36:41
Speaker
And it's not, you know,
00:36:42
Speaker
It can be actually physically dangerous for women.
00:36:44
Speaker
So I think we just need to acknowledge that.
00:36:46
Speaker
So after that train wreck of a paragraph, she continued.
00:36:49
Speaker
Oh, actually, she wrote the last sentence.
00:36:51
Speaker
You got to read this.
00:36:52
Speaker
I can't believe I'm saying this, but men with low self-esteem are people too.
00:36:56
Speaker
Nobody said that they're not people.
00:36:58
Speaker
First of all, we just don't want to date them.
00:37:01
Speaker
It's quite interesting how, especially, and this tends to come from men in that if you don't want to date somebody, that you see them as less than human.
00:37:10
Speaker
And that sort of line is accepted in the dating world.
00:37:12
Speaker
But if you applied that to anything else, it wouldn't make any sense.
00:37:16
Speaker
Like, I don't want to date, I don't know, like my cousin.
00:37:19
Speaker
That doesn't mean that I see him as less than human.
00:37:21
Speaker
I'm just not attracted.
00:37:22
Speaker
Like, why does it have to be... Who started the linking...
00:37:26
Speaker
the willingness to date somebody to whether you see them as a fully realized human being it was men to emotionally manipulate women into accepting them yeah and once again men's magazines aren't like this right it's all about them always trying to get the really unattainable girl that they don't deserve by any means delusion feeding mass delusion yeah delusional all they do is like fillet men about how hot they are even though they're five foot four and balding right and how they're totally going to get a woman who looks like rosie huntington whitley
00:37:55
Speaker
I honestly think male delusion should be added to the next DSM.
00:37:58
Speaker
I might actually send an email to the psychiatrist.
00:38:02
Speaker
Male pattern delusion.
00:38:02
Speaker
We've talked about this before.
00:38:04
Speaker
We should submit to the DSM 6 male pattern delusion.
00:38:07
Speaker
Women's magazines are like, this is why you should scrape the bottom of the barrel and find yourself a man, sis.
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:15
Speaker
They're literally like teaching you how to dumpster dive for the worst men possible, shine them up and take them home.
00:38:20
Speaker
That's all they're telling you to do.
00:38:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:25
Speaker
contrast this with the men's media where they're like, yeah, you bald, short, ugly, fat, blind in one eye, toothless man, you deserve a supermodel.
00:38:32
Speaker
Like, you know, in fact, supermodels think toothlessness is hot.
00:38:35
Speaker
Right.
00:38:38
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:38:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:38:39
Speaker
So, so I reject this.
00:38:41
Speaker
I outright reject, and you will never see this on FDS, anything that tells you to scrape the bottom of the barrel just to find a man.
00:38:48
Speaker
Like that's why we don't do standard shaming because this is like, this is what you get.
00:38:51
Speaker
Just paragraphs and paragraphs about how you need to give every single guy who don't want to give a chance, a chance.
00:38:57
Speaker
Why?
00:38:57
Speaker
Why is society invested in making us like these guys we don't like, right?
00:39:02
Speaker
Why is it on us to keep forcing relationships with men that we outright like don't want, right?
00:39:07
Speaker
I think it's because society... Here's the thing.
00:39:09
Speaker
Another casual myosandry thing.
00:39:11
Speaker
It's like, I think men... Everybody knows that men are inferior to women.
00:39:15
Speaker
Deep down.
00:39:16
Speaker
We all know...
00:39:18
Speaker
average man has way less value than the average woman are there hideous women are there really hot guys yeah there are people who are outside of the average for sure i'm talking about averages here the reason why all of society is so invested in getting women to lower their standards is because they know that men most men would not meet women's standards like even reasonable like you know not like oh he better buy me a birkin bag on the second date type of standards i mean like just normal
00:39:44
Speaker
I want a guy who's employed.
00:39:45
Speaker
I want a guy who's not ugly.
00:39:47
Speaker
I want a guy who treats me with decency and respect.
00:39:50
Speaker
Not even a guy who's not ugly, a guy that doesn't make your skin crawl and make you recoil when you look at him, right?
00:39:57
Speaker
But even that, they'll be like, attraction isn't everything in a relationship.
00:40:00
Speaker
Like, what is in a relationship?
00:40:02
Speaker
Attraction isn't everything.
00:40:03
Speaker
Money isn't everything.
00:40:05
Speaker
Mattress isn't everything.
00:40:07
Speaker
Having a mental health, sound mind and body isn't everything.
00:40:11
Speaker
So what is it then?
00:40:12
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:40:12
Speaker
Like we all know deep down that women are better than men.
00:40:16
Speaker
Right.
00:40:16
Speaker
And that this is all, all of the stuff around dating is just like hope for, you know, how do we manage down women's expectations?
00:40:23
Speaker
How do we make women who are literal goddesses shrink themselves to be on the same level as these little like worms who are men, right?
00:40:31
Speaker
Like it's much more difficult to take a goddess and force her to shrink down than it is to take a worm and to make that worm become a God.
00:40:37
Speaker
Right.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:39
Speaker
So that's why it's just easier to do that, to bring women down than to elevate men or to make men be better.
00:40:45
Speaker
You would never see this in a men's magazine.
00:40:47
Speaker
You would never see them to go down to the gym and find a woman at the beginning of her fitness journey.
00:40:52
Speaker
Like you said a while ago, Lilith, and be like, yeah, you should go invest in that woman and buy her some new titties and make her into the woman you want.
00:41:00
Speaker
They just don't do that stuff.
00:41:01
Speaker
They don't expect men to scrape the bottom.
00:41:04
Speaker
I'm not saying women like that are the bottom, but they don't say like, go down to your local, I don't know, alcoholic
00:41:09
Speaker
anonymous.
00:41:10
Speaker
Go down to the downtown East Stinks, find yourself a toothless prostitute and, you know, shine her up real good, like my fair lady style, like, you know, take her from the bottom and then, you know, raise her up to your level kind of thing, right?
00:41:21
Speaker
They never tell men to do that.
00:41:23
Speaker
It's so uncommon.
00:41:24
Speaker
We consider it a fairy tale when it happens.
00:41:26
Speaker
It's a fairy tale.
00:41:27
Speaker
They write movies where rich men go and like shine up a girl who, you know, either is either like socially beneath him in some way because she's a prostitute or like is poor
Media Narratives and Fictional Examples
00:41:38
Speaker
or something like that.
00:41:38
Speaker
They write this as it's a fantasy because men would never do this.
00:41:42
Speaker
But for women, it's just a given.
00:41:43
Speaker
For women, it's expected.
00:41:45
Speaker
And like when it did happen, the man always gets criticized for it.
00:41:48
Speaker
Like I know in, I spoke about this on my Twitter account, but in Norway, the crown prince married a woman who had a child with a convict and she took a lot of drugs in her past.
00:41:57
Speaker
And she was, you know, roundly criticized for it.
00:42:01
Speaker
And even he, to some extent, was criticized saying, you know, why did you marry such a woman?
00:42:04
Speaker
But if the boot was on the other foot...
00:42:06
Speaker
It would just be like, you know, yes, Queen, you know, she's made him a man, she's made him a better person.
00:42:11
Speaker
But she literally had to explain her past.
00:42:13
Speaker
It'd be a feel-good story about love.
00:42:16
Speaker
It'll be a feel-good story, but she had to literally explain herself, you know, to the entire nation as to why she dared to have a human past.
00:42:24
Speaker
Don't even get me started on the royals, because I could go in all day right now about Meghan Markle, like how the British press went on her because she's divorced, you know, stuff like that.
00:42:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:34
Speaker
Wallace 2.0.
00:42:37
Speaker
But back to the article.
00:42:38
Speaker
So where would any character from TV, movies, or literature be if they believed in if he wanted to, he would?
00:42:44
Speaker
Harry and Sally wouldn't even be Facebook friends.
00:42:47
Speaker
Oliver and Elio wouldn't... Oh my god.
00:42:50
Speaker
There's so much to say about Harry and Sally.
00:42:52
Speaker
She's referring to fiction to make her point.
00:42:54
Speaker
That's how you know it's bullshit.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:58
Speaker
Oliver and Elio would have never progressed past each other's fantasies.
00:43:01
Speaker
Wait, who the fuck is this?
00:43:03
Speaker
I've never heard of this, but once again, trash clickbait article with a mandatory amount of clickback links.
00:43:08
Speaker
Clickback links.
00:43:09
Speaker
So Harry and Sally wouldn't be Facebook friends.
00:43:11
Speaker
Oliver and Elio would have never progressed past each other's fantasies.
00:43:14
Speaker
The whole premise of Pride and Prejudice, if he wanted to, he wouldn't because his sisters and best friend are psychos.
00:43:20
Speaker
What?
00:43:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:22
Speaker
Wait, Darcy's sister wasn't a psycho in Pride and Prejudice.
00:43:26
Speaker
It was, I don't know, with the other random woman.
00:43:27
Speaker
There was one woman.
00:43:28
Speaker
It was weird, but his sister was quite a nice lady.
00:43:30
Speaker
So this woman clearly didn't even read Pride and Prejudice.
00:43:33
Speaker
Why are you doing a Pride and Prejudice reference when you didn't read the fucking book?
00:43:37
Speaker
Anyways, okay.
00:43:38
Speaker
Jane Austen didn't write, if a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him.
00:43:44
Speaker
What?
00:43:45
Speaker
Okay, Jane Austen didn't write, if a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him and will then be but poor consolation to believe the world equally in the dark just for some vile clout chaser to seduce you with the self-hating doctrine of if he wanted to, he would.
00:44:01
Speaker
Whoa.
00:44:01
Speaker
That is literally like a word salad paragraph.
00:44:04
Speaker
I feel like she was being sarcastic in that line, Jane Austen.
00:44:07
Speaker
If a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him and it will be then a poor consolation to believe the world equally in the dark.
00:44:17
Speaker
Like losing the opportunity of fixing a man?
00:44:19
Speaker
I think Jane Austen was being sarcastic there and she didn't get the sarcasm.
00:44:23
Speaker
That's what I'm getting.
00:44:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:25
Speaker
I'm like reading this, like what it says.
00:44:27
Speaker
So Charlotte says, a woman should not conceal her.
00:44:28
Speaker
This is something I guess Charlotte said.
00:44:30
Speaker
Well, Charlotte is trash.
00:44:31
Speaker
So yeah.
00:44:32
Speaker
So yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
So she didn't get it.
00:44:34
Speaker
Like Charlotte in the book is her best friend who marries her cousin.
00:44:38
Speaker
So Charlotte's the pick me character.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:40
Speaker
Charlotte is literally the pick me character.
00:44:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:43
Speaker
Like, or the spinster, I guess.
00:44:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:45
Speaker
So she's probably missed the like literary tool here where it wasn't supposed to be taken as serious.
00:44:51
Speaker
This woman read Charlotte's line unironically.
00:44:55
Speaker
She read a line spoken by Charlotte as like, this is fact.
00:44:59
Speaker
Like another good Charlotte line is like, oh, I'm older.
00:45:02
Speaker
I have no marriage prospects.
00:45:04
Speaker
I'm older.
00:45:04
Speaker
I have no money and no marriage prospects.
00:45:06
Speaker
That's actually a funny one.
00:45:07
Speaker
But like Charlotte is like, you know, she's kind of the pick me friend.
00:45:11
Speaker
She kind of like married her cousin who's going to inherit the family estate, you know, without telling her.
00:45:16
Speaker
So it's kind of like you're not supposed to take her seriously in a way or like she's a complicated character, but we can have that conversation later.
00:45:23
Speaker
But yeah, just for some vile clout chaser to seduce you with the self-hating doctrine of if he wanted to, he would.
00:45:28
Speaker
Again, man, this sounds like a personal problem.
00:45:34
Speaker
This is Wendy's.
00:45:35
Speaker
Ma'am, ma'am, ma'am, ma'am.
00:45:39
Speaker
I only say sir and ma'am sarcastically.
00:45:41
Speaker
Like, this is something that goes back to my, like, working in a fast food restaurant days where a customer is being unreasonable.
00:45:47
Speaker
One of the ways you could diffuse the situation was by being like, sir, sir, sir, I cannot both give you a refund and remake your drink.
00:45:58
Speaker
This is like when you want to say authoritatively to someone, you know, anyways.
00:46:02
Speaker
Back to the paragraph, or back
Relevance of Traditional Dating Advice
00:46:04
Speaker
to the article.
00:46:04
Speaker
This phrase is almost always directed at women who date men.
00:46:07
Speaker
It's, he's just not that into you updated for the 2020s.
00:46:10
Speaker
It's so regressive that it sounds like it belongs to the 1950s.
00:46:13
Speaker
Maybe in a commercial about the clean, healthy cigarette brand to leave out for your hardworking husband while you scurry along and finish cooking him a steak!
00:46:21
Speaker
The reason why this advice still stands is because men haven't changed, especially not since the 50s.
00:46:26
Speaker
And all the changes they've made have been mostly for the worse.
00:46:31
Speaker
They're mostly worse since the 1950s.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yeah, honestly.
00:46:34
Speaker
Maybe like they know that like beating your wife outright is wrong and they understand a little bit more about things like marital rape.
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:43
Speaker
There's, you know, every crop of men learn some lessons and then loses the other ones.
00:46:48
Speaker
And I think it's deliberate because it's based on the things that are most convenient for them.
00:46:51
Speaker
So they can be feminist because they feel like it's going to benefit them.
00:46:54
Speaker
And then they just drop all the stuff that doesn't.
00:46:56
Speaker
Men will be like, I'm a feminist.
00:46:58
Speaker
I make my girlfriend pay for dates.
00:47:00
Speaker
Right.
00:47:02
Speaker
Yeah, he's just thought that into you.
00:47:04
Speaker
If he wanted to, he would.
00:47:05
Speaker
The reason why women keep saying these things is because they continue to be true.
00:47:08
Speaker
And I understand wanting to progress and wanting to believe in the future and that in some like distant land far, far away, maybe 2050, 30, 50 men are going to be evolved human beings.
00:47:20
Speaker
But if you fundamentally understand that sex differences sometimes put us at odds with one another,
00:47:26
Speaker
then you understand this hasn't really changed.
00:47:29
Speaker
And so this advice continues to be true because that hasn't changed.
00:47:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:47:33
Speaker
So after that train wreck of a paragraph, she continues or she finishes, we have to stop letting people infected by misogyny write catchy phrases.
00:47:41
Speaker
If you wanted to, he would.
00:47:43
Speaker
Paints Women is generally desperate.
00:47:45
Speaker
Speak for yourself, sis.
00:47:46
Speaker
Which is interesting.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know where she got that from.
00:47:50
Speaker
This was like, this is an entire monologue that feels self-inflicted.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:55
Speaker
Just wrapping up her monologue.
00:47:57
Speaker
Which is interesting because if we're dealing in generalization, straight men are the most desperate people in society.
00:48:02
Speaker
Correct.
00:48:02
Speaker
They are, actually.
00:48:04
Speaker
The only true thing she said this whole... That's like the only thing, decent thing she said in this whole op-ed slash copium article slash general filler article.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:15
Speaker
The copium general filler article.
00:48:17
Speaker
There are infinite reasons men might do or not do the things they do.
00:48:21
Speaker
Those reasons are mostly unknowable and uninteresting.
00:48:23
Speaker
What is her point?
00:48:24
Speaker
What point is she trying to make here?
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:48:27
Speaker
That's actually true.
00:48:29
Speaker
Like their reasons are mostly unknowable and uninteresting.
00:48:32
Speaker
So that's why we say he doesn't want to because we don't care.
00:48:36
Speaker
The reasons why.
00:48:37
Speaker
I don't get what her point is.
00:48:38
Speaker
Like, is she trying to say here?
00:48:40
Speaker
Like, that's literally the point of if you wanted to, we would.
00:48:43
Speaker
We're saying that if you wanted to, we would is about him and him alone.
00:48:46
Speaker
And, you know, the reasons why are not your problem because your needs are still not being met.
00:48:51
Speaker
Even if the reason is so-called a good reason in quotation marks, it still doesn't matter because you're not getting your needs met.
00:48:57
Speaker
Exactly.
00:48:58
Speaker
And this is why I really, really hate, like, because I used to think I was anxiously attached and I would go over to the anxious attachment subreddit and just seeing the mental gymnastics,
00:49:06
Speaker
primarily women who had shacked up with a supposed avoidant men were doing to justify remaining in a relationship that clearly was not meeting their needs ultimately it doesn't matter if he's avoidant if he's mentally ill if his cat died when he was 10 he's been traumatized ever since if your needs are not getting met that is a big enough problem the reason why is irrelevant
00:49:27
Speaker
Yeah, she finishes up this article with the question.
00:49:29
Speaker
She says, the question that you can best address is what do you want?
00:49:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's what FDS asks.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah, but she already knows what she wants.
00:49:37
Speaker
That's why she's mad she's not getting it, right?
00:49:40
Speaker
If you're saying if he wanted to, he would.
00:49:42
Speaker
Here's the thing.
00:49:42
Speaker
It's like what you want and what a man can provide for you are two separate things, right?
00:49:47
Speaker
So with FDS, we always say, like, you know, know what you want, have high standards, like next to men if he doesn't meet those standards and stuff.
00:49:53
Speaker
Right.
00:49:53
Speaker
But like these same women will be like, oh, my God, your standards are ableist, classist, racist, exclusionary, whatever, whatever, whatever.
00:50:00
Speaker
She's saying, what do you want?
00:50:02
Speaker
But, you know, this type of author, the sort of pick me author doesn't really care what women want.
00:50:07
Speaker
As soon as a woman starts saying what she wants, they come up with all these reasons for why what she wants is wrong, basically.
00:50:12
Speaker
And it's like, that's, you know, that is the whole, the final sentence sort of, almost like, you know how Tracy Clark Flory, like her final sentence just completely dismantled her whole argument.
00:50:21
Speaker
If women were really focused on what they wanted, they would understand why, if you wanted to, we would, is sound dating advice.
00:50:29
Speaker
Because ultimately, it will then require you to ask yourself, okay, is what I'm getting what I want?
00:50:34
Speaker
No, he can't provide it.
00:50:35
Speaker
The reason doesn't matter.
00:50:36
Speaker
So I'm going to go elsewhere because that's what I want.
00:50:39
Speaker
So her final sentence sort of dismantled her whole apologist stance, you know, for men who don't want to provide for whatever reason or to make any effort for whatever reason.
00:50:50
Speaker
It's very confusing.
00:50:51
Speaker
It's all over the place, but that's become the hallmark of that's kind of become the hallmark of me media.
00:50:58
Speaker
Yeah, pick me media because we had the same criticism of the Cam Girl article where it was like she was trying to make a narrative of empowerment, but it was all very confused.
00:51:07
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:51:08
Speaker
At some point, you have to believe it's deliberate on the part of the editors.
00:51:11
Speaker
Like you have to understand most of these women come from a place of like, I came across FDS or I found this piece of advice that makes me feel personally attacked or makes me feel inadequate or insecure or whatever.
00:51:24
Speaker
They'll find something that gets them in the feels, like, emotionally.
00:51:27
Speaker
And instead of, like, questioning that feeling and, like, exploring that, maybe going to therapy, talking about it with a therapist, like, exploring why that makes them feel that way.
00:51:35
Speaker
They'll write these whole articles with all this, like, weird, intellectually dishonest ideas that don't make any actual sense.
00:51:41
Speaker
Because, again, like, they're arguing from a place of emotion and not from, like, you know, having an actual argument.
00:51:46
Speaker
They're having all these, like, supporting pieces of evidence to back up a non-argument, basically.
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah, it always boils down to I'm not the pick me.
00:51:54
Speaker
You're the pick me.
00:51:55
Speaker
Yeah, like I'm not the misogynist.
00:51:56
Speaker
You're the misogynist.
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, like it's boring.
00:51:59
Speaker
Anyways, I think most people can look at that and be like, that was dumb.
00:52:03
Speaker
You know, thanks for this article that we can roast on our Patreon.
00:52:06
Speaker
Thank you.
00:52:08
Speaker
Thanks for listening.
00:52:08
Speaker
See y'all next week.