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Billie Eilish & How The Media Groomed A Generation of Girls
33 Plays4 years ago
The Queens discuss the response to Billie Eilish's confessions about porn usage, the details of our own underage exposure, and introduce a sane, actionable, six point plan to reduce porn exposure to children. Oh, and drag sex work twitter yet again.
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Billie Eilish on Porn's Impact
00:02:02
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:02:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:02:07
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:02:09
Speaker
I'm Savannah.
00:02:11
Speaker
And I'm Lilith.
00:02:12
Speaker
This week, we're talking about Billie Eilish versus the porn industry and the fallout from her comments that she made on the Howard Stern show.
00:02:19
Speaker
She made some comments that were a very personal account about how porn has affected her mentally, emotionally, physically, and her relationships, especially the young age in which she was exposed to porn.
00:02:33
Speaker
And we're going to discuss her comments as well as the reaction from our now sparring partners on Twitter, sex work Twitter.
00:02:41
Speaker
Social media, sex work Twitter, who are just a different, yeah, different sparring ground.
00:02:49
Speaker
But first, to what Billie Eilish was saying.
00:02:52
Speaker
So what Eilish said in the interview was, I used to watch a lot of porn, to be honest.
00:02:56
Speaker
I started watching porn when I was like 11.
00:02:59
Speaker
I think it really destroyed my brain, and I feel incredibly devastated that I was exposed to so much porn.
00:03:05
Speaker
So Eilish also admitted that she began watching more and more graphic types of pornography, which warped her ideas about sex and relationships.
00:03:12
Speaker
It got to a point where I couldn't watch anything else unless it was violent.
00:03:15
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I didn't think I was attractive, she confessed.
00:03:18
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I was a virgin.
00:03:18
Speaker
I had never done anything.
00:03:20
Speaker
And so it led to problems.
00:03:21
Speaker
The first few times I had sex, I was not saying no to things that were not good.
00:03:25
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It was because I thought that's what I was supposed to be attracted to.
00:03:28
Speaker
The singer then told Stern that she began watching abusive BDSM porn, which she says causes her to now suffer from night terrors and sleep paralysis.
00:03:37
Speaker
I am so angry that porn is so loved, Eilish blasted, and I'm so angry at myself for thinking that it was okay.
00:03:42
Speaker
Eilish also slammed the porn industry for creating unrealistic expectations of women's bodies.
00:03:47
Speaker
The way that vaginas look in porn is fucking crazy.
00:03:49
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She commented, no vaginas look like that.
00:03:52
Speaker
Women's bodies don't look like that.
00:03:53
Speaker
We don't come like that.
Norms of Early Porn Exposure
00:03:55
Speaker
Brad Salzman, founder of the New York Sexual Addiction Center, said it's not unusual for children to first begin watching online porn at the age of 11.
00:04:02
Speaker
It's actually the norm, said Salzman, who has treated young men suffering from sex and porn addiction.
00:04:06
Speaker
Many of them are in their early 20s, not much older than Eilish herself.
00:04:10
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Parents aren't paying attention and porn exposure can affect them for the rest of the lives, Salzman said.
00:04:15
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It totally colors their perception of what normal sexuality is supposed to look like and it changes the way they think that they're supposed to interact.
00:04:23
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They can begin seeing other people as sex objects as opposed to human beings.
00:04:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:28
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So there's a lot more to this article and they talk to a lot more experts and people who work with people with sexual addictions and porn addiction.
00:04:36
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And overwhelmingly across the board, a lot of them are saying that this is in no way harmless.
00:04:42
Speaker
Obviously not to children, but even can be very, very harmful to adults.
00:04:46
Speaker
I want to say, first of all, like...
00:04:48
Speaker
What she described was almost exactly my early teen years.
00:04:52
Speaker
I saw porn for the first time, I think when I was 12, but I didn't start watching it regularly until I was 14.
00:04:58
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I remember thinking like, this is weird and gross when I was like 12 and not really understanding it.
00:05:04
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And then once I got a boyfriend and he was showing it to me and then thinking, oh, like this is like what she said.
00:05:10
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I was, when I started having sex, I wasn't saying no to things that I should have said no to.
00:05:14
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And, you know,
00:05:16
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Porn is used as a grooming thing.
00:05:18
Speaker
Like men use this to groom women into being like, see, these are totally normal sex acts and you should totally do this for me.
00:05:24
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And if you don't, you're a prude kind of thing.
00:05:26
Speaker
And when you're a young woman and you don't have your boundaries figured out and you don't really have enough like experience with men to realize that a lot of them are fucking scumbags.
00:05:35
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It can be hard, honestly.
00:05:36
Speaker
I don't know what else to say.
00:05:37
Speaker
It's like, but I relate so much to her.
00:05:40
Speaker
I remember being on AOL chat rooms when I was a preteen and grown men sending me porn through AOL chat rooms.
00:05:49
Speaker
And that's how I actually started to look at porn.
00:05:52
Speaker
I was never really super into it.
00:05:54
Speaker
I think at that age, I was more or less curious.
00:05:56
Speaker
And then also comparing myself to how the women looked in porn
Cultural Influences on Sexuality
00:06:01
Speaker
and wanting to be attractive.
00:06:03
Speaker
But I never...
00:06:04
Speaker
I can't really describe why I never fully bought the pornified culture that I feel like was going on at the time, even though I feel like all of my peers did.
00:06:14
Speaker
I think some of that too is just like my heavily religious upbringing.
00:06:17
Speaker
And it wasn't necessarily that I didn't want to be sexy.
00:06:19
Speaker
I didn't want to feel attractive to men.
00:06:21
Speaker
I just sort of distinctly realized like...
00:06:23
Speaker
how to explain it, but I sort of realized a lot of the stuff they were asking was beneath my dignity.
00:06:27
Speaker
And then I just didn't like them like that.
00:06:30
Speaker
Like, I was just like, I don't really, I don't really like you like that.
00:06:33
Speaker
Or I just, I mean, you're talking to scumbags on the internet.
00:06:36
Speaker
Like I was talking to like boys in my class that I liked.
00:06:39
Speaker
No, no.
00:06:39
Speaker
I mean like real boys too.
00:06:40
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I meant real boys too.
00:06:41
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Sorry.
00:06:42
Speaker
I didn't make that clear.
00:06:43
Speaker
So, um,
00:06:44
Speaker
Let me actually clarify that.
00:06:46
Speaker
So the way I actually got exposed to porn the first time was through like AOL chat rooms with grown men or whatever.
00:06:51
Speaker
I would just type in there like, hey, 11F, you know, in the AOL chat.
00:06:57
Speaker
11F, seriously?
00:06:58
Speaker
You're pedo bait, girl.
00:07:02
Speaker
Or I would lie about my age or say I was like 15 or 14.
00:07:04
Speaker
God, I actually got exposed to porn via AOL chat rooms.
00:07:07
Speaker
And then like men via AOL chat rooms would direct message me and like spam me porn.
00:07:11
Speaker
So that's actually how I started getting exposed to porn.
00:07:14
Speaker
You want to know the first porn I saw?
00:07:15
Speaker
Actually, it was actually two girls, one cup.
00:07:17
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:07:18
Speaker
Oh my god!
00:07:20
Speaker
Because it came out in 2007, right?
00:07:22
Speaker
It was like going viral, everyone was sharing it.
00:07:25
Speaker
And I remember seeing this and thinking like, oh, this is a joke, right?
00:07:28
Speaker
Like nobody actually like enjoys looking at this, right?
00:07:33
Speaker
Boy, was I wrong.
00:07:34
Speaker
I am determined to go to my grave and never see that video.
00:07:37
Speaker
I refuse to see that video.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, it traumatized me.
00:07:40
Speaker
I've never seen it and I won't watch it.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:43
Speaker
I won't watch it.
00:07:44
Speaker
And everyone was sending it.
00:07:45
Speaker
And if I cut a whiff that it might be a link to Two Girls, One Cup, I straight up didn't open the email or anybody who tried to send it to me.
00:07:53
Speaker
So yeah, I was first exposed to porn, like I said, through AOL chat rooms.
00:07:57
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Later on, when porn culture really took over and like all the girls who were considered hot at school or all the girls who were considered hot, you know, in mainstream media were really taking on the porn aesthetic.
00:08:09
Speaker
I wanted to kind of look hot.
00:08:10
Speaker
So I would more or less imitate things that guys thought were sexy.
00:08:15
Speaker
Right.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so sometimes I would try to look like them thinking like, oh, I want to like wear the body, body glitter was in that.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:24
Speaker
Like where the body glitter and like the belly chains and all the kind of cute stuff that really came out of like the porn aesthetic.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to put on my low rise jeans and my two top.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:35
Speaker
The early 2000s.
00:08:36
Speaker
What a crazy time.
00:08:37
Speaker
What a time.
00:08:38
Speaker
But yeah, to be fair, that was actually...
00:08:40
Speaker
Also, Destiny's Child was wearing that eventually, and so was Britney.
00:08:44
Speaker
So the porn aesthetic stopped just being porn aesthetic and started just being mainstream beauty aesthetic.
00:08:50
Speaker
I don't know if that's as much of a transference today, but I know distinctly in the early 2000s, the hot aesthetic was deliberately the aesthetic that was coming from porn.
00:09:01
Speaker
And I know that was detailed in the documentary Hot Girls Wanted.
00:09:07
Speaker
with what's her name again?
00:09:08
Speaker
Sorry.
00:09:08
Speaker
With Rashida Jones.
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:09
Speaker
With Rashida Jones.
00:09:12
Speaker
So yeah, TV and pop stars and a lot of the popular pop culture aesthetic was very pornified.
00:09:18
Speaker
But when it came to like actual sex, because I delayed having actual sex because of my, at the time, like religious values, I would sometimes like sex with guys or like sex chat.
00:09:30
Speaker
Chat with them via instant messenger, AOL instant messenger.
00:09:36
Speaker
But otherwise, I didn't really get into that because of the religious thing, but also because I think I just had this instinct that like these guys weren't that great, even the ones that I liked to be like doing all this shit for them.
00:09:48
Speaker
I just sort of...
00:09:50
Speaker
I don't know where that came from, and maybe that's the thing to unpack, but it's kind of sad now for me to hear from my peers that felt really, really pressured to do this stuff, because I at times felt like they would try to pressure me to do this stuff, but I'd be like, well, guys are just forever trying to get in their pants, and they're going to say whatever, so it didn't bother.
00:10:04
Speaker
It didn't force me to try to...
00:10:07
Speaker
do anything that I was necessarily uncomfortable with.
00:10:10
Speaker
Okay, well, that's good for you, Ro.
00:10:11
Speaker
I'm very happy for you that you didn't feel pressure to do things that you didn't want to do.
00:10:14
Speaker
But a lot of girls out there do feel pressure to do things they don't want to do.
00:10:17
Speaker
And that's
Internet Porn: Normalization & Access
00:10:18
Speaker
the fucking shitty thing about porn.
00:10:19
Speaker
I agree.
00:10:20
Speaker
I'm just trying to figure out like, how did the messaging go from this is just porn and that's just porn to this is what you have to do and be as a girl.
00:10:30
Speaker
And where did that come from?
00:10:32
Speaker
The only way I can kind of piece it together is
00:10:35
Speaker
is because of pop culture, like pop culture adopting the porn aesthetic.
00:10:39
Speaker
In addition to... No, it was the introduction of internet porn.
00:10:43
Speaker
I saw a really great thread on Twitter.
00:10:45
Speaker
She talked about Marshall McLuhan, who's this Canadian thinker.
00:10:49
Speaker
He said that the medium is the message.
00:10:51
Speaker
Porn used to be a physical thing that you had to go to a store and it would be at the back of the store behind curtains or it would be covered up in magazines and stuff.
00:11:00
Speaker
And so it was a physical thing that was hidden and the medium...
00:11:04
Speaker
The medium is the message, meaning that the medium in which you consume something affects the message itself.
00:11:11
Speaker
And so in this case, consuming porn, when it's hidden, it's tucked away at the back of the store, it's like, this is shameful, this is not normal, this is something you should hide.
00:11:19
Speaker
Whereas now we have internet porn where it's just one click away.
00:11:23
Speaker
It's the same...
00:11:24
Speaker
browser that you use to check your emails or do a spreadsheet or whatever.
00:11:28
Speaker
Right.
00:11:28
Speaker
And so the introduction or the blowing up of internet porn is what resulted in the normalization of it.
00:11:35
Speaker
It's no longer saying, oh, this is something dirty that you should hide.
00:11:38
Speaker
I guess the question I was trying to unpack is to figure out like when and why and how it became this is no longer a dirty thing to girls have to be doing this.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I mean.
00:11:48
Speaker
It went from something hidden behind a curtain to something that was ubiquitous one click away online.
00:11:54
Speaker
And I think that shift in medium has maybe not is the only thing explaining it, but it's one of the factors.
00:12:01
Speaker
Maybe I'm trying to dig a little bit deeper here, but can you explain like how, because to me, when I saw porn and understood porn, and it could be because of, again, religious upbringing and my parents talking, I actually got caught watching porn once.
00:12:12
Speaker
That's a whole other discussion, but I know.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:16
Speaker
I was way too young.
00:12:18
Speaker
But yeah, it was a very awkward conversation with my mom.
00:12:21
Speaker
I'm laughing just because something similar happened in my family and we were super religious.
00:12:27
Speaker
I remember how that went.
00:12:29
Speaker
It was like a record scratch moment.
00:12:32
Speaker
You want to know the fucked up thing?
00:12:33
Speaker
My parents gave me unlimited access to the internet.
00:12:36
Speaker
They did not have any like parental controls.
00:12:39
Speaker
From the age of like 13 onwards, I had like complete unfettered access to anything I wanted on the internet.
00:12:44
Speaker
And I saw so much fucked up shit.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'd like no adult supervision in my teen years.
00:12:48
Speaker
Okay, I'm actually kind of like pissed off.
00:12:50
Speaker
I actually wish my parents gave enough of a shit about me to get mad at me.
00:12:54
Speaker
I wish my parents gave enough of a shit about me to be mad at me for watching porn, if that makes sense.
00:13:00
Speaker
Well, see, I had internet restrictions and I still access porn.
00:13:03
Speaker
So that's kind of the problem.
00:13:04
Speaker
Is that even... True.
00:13:06
Speaker
Even with my mom's really strict scoldings about internet usage, I was still on AOL chat rooms chatting with grown men.
00:13:13
Speaker
They were still sending me porn.
00:13:15
Speaker
Because when you're that age, you're still curious.
00:13:18
Speaker
So you figure out a way to bypass those things anyway.
00:13:20
Speaker
And the more your parents say...
00:13:22
Speaker
It's bad for you or it's not a thing to do.
00:13:24
Speaker
You figure out a way around it.
00:13:26
Speaker
And my mom actually found my brother's porno stash and he had DVDs and a way more expensive porno stash.
00:13:33
Speaker
She found it one time when she was just... She said she prayed on it and God told her to clean my brother's room for him.
00:13:40
Speaker
And she found it.
00:13:42
Speaker
so good.
00:13:43
Speaker
She claims to this day that God gave her this divine inspiration to clean out her house.
00:13:49
Speaker
It's a whole thing.
00:13:50
Speaker
But she found out my brother's porn, Ash.
00:13:52
Speaker
But I guess the question I'm trying to get at more specifically is how did it come to be that you can have different experiences with porn?
00:14:01
Speaker
Or what was the logic leap from thinking, oh, porn is dirty, porn is for a certain type of girl?
00:14:06
Speaker
Or
00:14:06
Speaker
a certain type of guy.
00:14:08
Speaker
Porn is not something you're supposed to be doing in real life to, I have to do all this porno shit.
00:14:13
Speaker
It could have been parenting, but at the same time, it could have been just like different media consumption, right?
00:14:21
Speaker
Only reason I'm going into it is I feel like it'd be really good for parents as well as
00:14:25
Speaker
women who are maybe young listening to us who are understanding like how their media consumption can start to influence them.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:32
Speaker
Or even if it's just the guys in your class doing this shit.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:34
Speaker
When I was a teenager, I read a lot of LibFem women's magazines and stuff.
00:14:40
Speaker
You know, I got like a subscription to like Teen Vogue when I was like 12.
00:14:43
Speaker
Aha!
00:14:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:45
Speaker
So that's part of it.
00:14:46
Speaker
So I didn't read that shit.
00:14:47
Speaker
So that's why I think that liberal feminism is actually part of the problem and not just the porn industry is because I wasn't reading that shit and my mom straight up would never let me subscribe to those magazines.
00:15:00
Speaker
And I didn't understand why at the time, but now as an adult, I understand a little bit more because they're pushing certain ideas as empowering
Liberal Feminism & Porn's Empowerment Narrative
00:15:07
Speaker
and feminists, et cetera, that actually can be really, really harmful.
00:15:11
Speaker
Now she did it out of a religious reason, but...
00:15:15
Speaker
When we talk about liberal feminism and how kids are making the leap from porn is something that's either for adults or porn is really like harmful or porn is really not to like shame people or whatever, but porn is for a certain type of person.
00:15:28
Speaker
You know, porn is like a dirty thing for certain types of people.
00:15:32
Speaker
And then making that leap to porn is empowering.
00:15:35
Speaker
Porn is something that you should emulate in your life.
00:15:37
Speaker
Porn is going to help your relationship.
00:15:38
Speaker
It seems like it really was to me that liberal feminism was the vehicle by which porn was disseminated into the public.
00:15:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:47
Speaker
The thing with Teen Vogue is it never, the magazines that I read, they didn't really talk about porn or porn being like something that's like a good thing.
00:15:55
Speaker
What they did talk about was like things to be attractive to, how to be attractive to boys.
00:16:00
Speaker
Like look at all these hairstyles so you can be pretty for boys.
00:16:02
Speaker
Look at all these ways of doing makeup so you can be pretty for boys.
00:16:04
Speaker
Like
00:16:05
Speaker
Girls' magazines, I mean, the reason why they make it is, I guess there's a demand.
00:16:08
Speaker
Girls want to be seen as attractive to boys.
00:16:11
Speaker
But yeah, these magazines do reinforce the idea that a young girl should change things or do something to her appearance and to her behavior to attract men and boys.
00:16:24
Speaker
It just sets that sort of the onus on the woman to be sexually appealing to boys.
00:16:30
Speaker
The porn industry creates these...
00:16:33
Speaker
It's disgustingly misogynistic sexual products.
00:16:36
Speaker
And women's magazines create like a passive like person that they can act those fantasies on to.
00:16:43
Speaker
Mainstream media for teen girls tries to repackage the porn aesthetic as sexually attractive or sexually empowering.
00:16:49
Speaker
And then also explicitly tries to talk about pornified sex as empowerment.
00:16:55
Speaker
And then the marriage of those two things created the culture that we have now.
00:16:58
Speaker
Pretty much, yeah.
00:16:59
Speaker
And I've mentioned this before in podcasts and in Twitter spaces, how the education that boys get and the education that girls get is
00:17:06
Speaker
is very different.
00:17:07
Speaker
Like the boys, they grow up watching the, you know, hardcore porn where there's no talk about consent.
00:17:12
Speaker
There's no talk about safe words or anything like that.
00:17:16
Speaker
The women's magazines, the LibFem narratives, they're all about like, well, if you communicate with your partner and if you, you know, stuff about safe words and like boundaries and like, but it's really like soft shit.
00:17:27
Speaker
It's, it's, it's not about like being ruthless or having firm boundaries.
00:17:31
Speaker
It's more about like,
00:17:33
Speaker
coaching girls into like passive acquiescence of whatever the boys want.
00:17:37
Speaker
I think they're actually coaching active acquiescence as well because we've roasted a couple of articles on here that were either really, really bad relationship advice.
00:17:47
Speaker
There's been a ton of articles linked on Reddit to like Glamour and Elle and other women's magazines that really explicitly said that.
00:17:55
Speaker
As well as New York Times, even if you want to avoid specifically women's media, New York Times also has like feminist scholars that are very, very pro BDSM talking about BDSM, talking about porn as some kind of medium in which women are finding empowerment.
00:18:09
Speaker
So the entire mainstream media, to me, conspired to push porn as an avenue for
00:18:17
Speaker
of empowerment for girls.
00:18:19
Speaker
That's coming from both academia as well as like, or more like pop culture magazines, as well as like our run-of-the-mill quote-unquote sex educators from all these people that get sex education certifications from these diploma mills.
00:18:34
Speaker
So the entire mainstream media created that culture.
00:18:37
Speaker
So it actually, interestingly, it actually goes back a lot further than even just the past like 10 or 20 years, like what we're talking about.
00:18:43
Speaker
This whole conversation reminds me a lot of chapter three of Right Wing Women by Andrea Dworkin, where she talks about abortion, but not just abortion.
00:18:52
Speaker
She also talks about how...
00:18:54
Speaker
you know, we live in a culture where that sets up, you know, legally, you know, in the media, in the culture, in social norms and everything, this idea that sex is a service that women should provide to men.
00:19:07
Speaker
And on the right, they see it as like, oh, it's a, it's a marital duty.
00:19:11
Speaker
On the left, they, they kind of like do this weird sigh up where they're like, sex is empowering, you know, women, women enjoy sex, free love, like that kind of stuff.
00:19:20
Speaker
Right.
00:19:21
Speaker
And how, um,
00:19:23
Speaker
Like, men on the left in the 60s basically only supported abortion because they thought that it would be a way to get an easy fuck from women.
00:19:31
Speaker
Like, that women basically, at the time, the only way that they could say no or refuse sex was, well, I don't want to get pregnant kind of thing, right?
00:19:39
Speaker
And so leftist men at the time thought, okay, well, if we get abortion, then we can have, you know, free access to... free sexual access to women without fear of repercussions.
00:19:48
Speaker
We'll take away the only, like...
00:19:51
Speaker
reason why she's allowed to say no kind of thing, right?
00:19:53
Speaker
There's a quote that's like, even so-called women's magazines, you know, conspire to sort of brainwash women, basically, into thinking that there's something wrong with you if you're not like horny all the time and not constantly...
00:20:07
Speaker
interested in sex with men or with multiple basically coaching women into increased frequency of sex increased extreme sex acts and more variety of sex acts and things like orgies and stuff like that and coaching women into being like yeah like don't be like your prudish mothers who were conservative and miserable like the only way to be a free liberated woman is to go out and have a bunch of unprotected sex with a ton of men kind of thing which of course the leftist men loved right
00:20:35
Speaker
So I think it's crazy to me that every generation, it's like feminists have to reinvent the wheel, right?
00:20:41
Speaker
Like this is something that our mother's generation went through and we're going through it again, you know, now, except now it's worse because of the internet.
00:20:49
Speaker
And...
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah, this is definitely a topic for further study.
00:20:53
Speaker
I want to see, I need to read more about, you know, how this went down in the 60s and 70s and how we can maybe have a different outcome this time, hopefully.
00:21:01
Speaker
Well, I'm hoping because of the internet and FDS's growth that there's clearly an audience out there for us and an audience out there for porn critical feminism, which has been completely and totally ignored, if not outright derided by mainstream media.
00:21:17
Speaker
Also, notice how, like, older feminists are always demonized as, like, you know, bad, evil, other TERFs, whatever, right?
00:21:25
Speaker
Like, they're always, or they're SWERFs, you know?
00:21:27
Speaker
I find, in general, the demonization of older women is, like, a deliberate tactic to cut off young women from knowledge of past generations.
00:21:36
Speaker
Even Sarah Dytem, she's a pretty prominent writer for The Independent, The Guardian, Spectator.
00:21:44
Speaker
She was actually responsible for getting Gail Dines deplatformed or uninvited to several sex-positive feminist events.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:56
Speaker
And she's changed her mind.
00:21:58
Speaker
She used to be like a sex-positive pro-porn feminist.
00:22:00
Speaker
She actually...
00:22:01
Speaker
changed her mind.
00:22:02
Speaker
Like literally just type in Sarah Dytam versus Gail Dynes.
00:22:06
Speaker
So it looks like it says why I changed my mind about porn.
00:22:10
Speaker
This is an article from Sarah Dytam.
00:22:11
Speaker
It says a few years ago, I argued against the idea that porn was hijacking our sexuality.
00:22:16
Speaker
Now, as a woman's center tries to ban my opponent, I wonder, are they scared that if people listen to Gail Dynes, their minds might be changed too?
00:22:24
Speaker
So I am Sarah Dytum, the feminist.
00:22:26
Speaker
I do not hate Gail Dines.
00:22:27
Speaker
I was a little taken aback to see the statement on a comment thread.
00:22:30
Speaker
I knew where I'd come from, however, four years ago.
00:22:32
Speaker
Dines and I took part in a debate titled, Is Porn Hijacking Our Sexuality?
00:22:37
Speaker
Dines, a veteran anti-porn feminist, argued for yes, and I put the case for no.
00:22:42
Speaker
In the end, I got the impression that we'd both slightly wrong-footed each other.
00:22:45
Speaker
I didn't use the insinuations of sexlessness and prudery she anticipated, and her argument contained all of the economic and ethical...
00:22:52
Speaker
subtlety I'd foolishly assumed it would lack.
00:22:55
Speaker
The debate dragged out for over a year, then collapsed unsatisfyingly.
00:22:58
Speaker
I wrote a grumpy blog post about it, which led lots of people, most of them, it has to be said men, to declare me the winner.
00:23:04
Speaker
I didn't exactly feel like a winner, however.
00:23:06
Speaker
I knew there were parts of the argument I fudged, especially and shamefully around the racism and sexism that are embedded in the grammar pornography.
00:23:12
Speaker
So the article continues, and we'll leave it in the notes.
00:23:14
Speaker
But yeah, she's an example of a person who started out as like a Vietnamese pro-porn feminist, and as she kind of got older...
00:23:21
Speaker
and got exposed to Gail Dine's arguments started to exist with more, started to respect it with more nuances.
00:23:26
Speaker
How
Suppression of Anti-Porn Voices
00:23:27
Speaker
dare this bitch disrespect our queen, okay?
00:23:29
Speaker
Like, even if she's changed her mind since then, I'm like, I don't know, I'm not a very forgiving person.
00:23:35
Speaker
Like, once someone fucks up or does something harmful...
00:23:38
Speaker
In the past, I don't know, I'm of the view that it takes more than an apology.
00:23:42
Speaker
It takes, like, you know, active efforts to, like, make amends and undo the wrongs of your past.
00:23:48
Speaker
I think, like, just being like, oh, sorry, I was wrong.
00:23:50
Speaker
That's not good enough to me.
00:23:52
Speaker
I interacted with Sarah Dytem on Twitter before, and I didn't know this about her.
00:23:55
Speaker
And so I'm kind of like...
00:23:57
Speaker
kind of pissed off now.
00:23:58
Speaker
She's adjusted some of her views on porn and sex positive feminism over the years.
00:24:03
Speaker
It seems like she has become more radical feminist leaning as she's gotten older.
00:24:07
Speaker
So yeah, there was a couple of instances where Gail Dines was deplatformed or uninvited to public discussions.
00:24:13
Speaker
One of them was a screening of Pornland organized by the group Decording Porn was supposed to take place at the Women's Community Center of Central Texas, Austin.
00:24:21
Speaker
It never happened because the community center
00:24:23
Speaker
cancel the booking on the depressing grounds that it would violate a quote-unquote safe space.
00:24:29
Speaker
Eye roll.
00:24:30
Speaker
We had some folks here in the Austin community say they were deeply uncomfortable with Dine's work.
00:24:36
Speaker
Our staff had not been aware of Dine's history of anti-sex worker rhetoric, and we were grateful to be educated.
00:24:41
Speaker
So literally, they're deplatforming any type of porn critical thought, even within women's centers and women's spaces.
00:24:49
Speaker
And it's coming from feminists because they're always painting porn criticism or even sex work criticism as anti-sex or anti-sex worker.
00:24:57
Speaker
I'm so fucking sick of these liberal feminists being attack dogs for men.
00:25:01
Speaker
for men's penis wants like and i find it's a very very clever trick on capitalism's part to be like oh if you criticize this industry it must mean you hate the the workers right like if i if i am criticizing say the the fossil fuel industry and i want more regulations to you know preserve the climate and stuff and people were like oh so you just hate oil rig workers then right like that would be stupid nobody says that yeah nobody says that
00:25:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:28
Speaker
In fact, like, if fossil fuel companies were evil geniuses, which they are, I'm surprised they haven't used this tactic already of, like, having commercials of, like, look at this poor, like, you know, the, like, sad music in the back of all the Sheryl Crow, like, animal...
00:25:44
Speaker
animal rights ads being like, in the arms of an angel, with like a poor, sad oil rigged worker from Alberta being like, look at this man.
00:25:54
Speaker
His name is Kyle.
00:25:55
Speaker
He's been out of work for the past year because the oil industry hasn't been doing so good.
00:25:59
Speaker
Support our local oil rigged workers.
00:26:02
Speaker
And if you don't, you know, if you are against fossil fuels, it means you hate these poor, innocent victims of...
00:26:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:10
Speaker
You know what I mean, right?
00:26:10
Speaker
Like, it's just so fucking manipulative.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:13
Speaker
They'll frame it like you're trying to destroy jobs.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:16
Speaker
Like, or you're trying to destroy jobs.
00:26:18
Speaker
This is going to affect jobs if you put any regulations on our industry.
00:26:22
Speaker
And it's like, well, couldn't you just make more jobs making sure you follow the regulations, right?
00:26:27
Speaker
Like, there's always quality control people.
00:26:30
Speaker
And here's the thing, like, if your industry would be destroyed by more regulation, that's a good sign that it's a shitty industry that shouldn't exist.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:39
Speaker
Like when they were introducing like anti-child labor laws, yeah, there were a ton of people being like, oh my gosh, do you just want all these children to be unemployed and unable to feed themselves?
00:26:49
Speaker
Like, no, it means that we need to, you know, we need to create a society in which children are not reliant on...
00:26:56
Speaker
child labor to survive.
00:26:57
Speaker
You know, we need to have a better, you know, better social programs and so on, better regulations so that companies can't exploit children.
00:27:06
Speaker
Same thing for sex workers, right?
00:27:08
Speaker
Like, we shouldn't live in a world where women have to rely on selling their bodies to make ends meet.
00:27:14
Speaker
Well, while we're on the topic of making better sexual choices, let's talk about safe sex and the all-important necessity of getting regularly tested for STDs.
00:27:23
Speaker
51% of people don't get tested because they don't want to bring up sex or STDs in discussions with their healthcare providers.
Sponsorship & Critique of Empowerment Narrative
00:27:30
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:27:33
Speaker
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00:27:45
Speaker
So here's how Let's
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Speaker
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00:27:47
Speaker
You simply go to their site, order a sexual health testing kit, and it arrives at your door in a small discreet package.
00:27:53
Speaker
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00:27:58
Speaker
And in two to five days, you'll get your results and a let's get checked nurse will be available to discuss your results with you if you'd like their feedback.
00:28:05
Speaker
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00:28:12
Speaker
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00:28:18
Speaker
So thanks so much for our sponsors.
00:28:19
Speaker
Let's get checked and back to the show.
00:28:21
Speaker
So to tie together our previous threads here and then jump into the response from sex work, Twitter, porn culture exploded because of the internet.
00:28:30
Speaker
It was aided and abetted by liberal feminists, both them painting it as empowering them, having the dominant rhetoric in popular magazines, as well as mainstream media, and also de-platforming unilaterally, even within women's spaces, any type of feminist who is critical of porn, including our beloved clean,
00:28:49
Speaker
Gail Dines, who we have now re-platformed and will continue to platform.
00:28:54
Speaker
I'm going to platform Gail Dines even more now.
00:28:57
Speaker
I want her back on the show for the third time.
00:28:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:59
Speaker
Like amplify her voice.
00:29:01
Speaker
When you read how she was treated for saying entirely reasonable things, it actually really does make your blood boil because I'm like, this should have always been part of the feminist conversation.
00:29:11
Speaker
I understand why men don't want it.
00:29:13
Speaker
women to hear this kind of thing.
00:29:14
Speaker
But I am kind of pissed off at all the pro-sex work feminists and pro-sex posi feminists who decided it wasn't like safe to be critical of the porn industry.
00:29:24
Speaker
How dare you threaten our safe space?
00:29:26
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:29:27
Speaker
Like shut the fuck up.
00:29:29
Speaker
I roll.
00:29:29
Speaker
God.
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, it does.
00:29:31
Speaker
It's infuriating because now we have the situation where you have generations of girls being groomed by this, including Billie Eilish and also Lilith.
00:29:39
Speaker
And like I said, I think the difference between Lilith and I and the messaging we got was literally liberal feminism because I wasn't immersed in that.
00:29:46
Speaker
I still had the perception that porn was something other and that it wasn't something that I had to do.
00:29:52
Speaker
But if I had been immersed in liberal feminist culture at that time, I probably would have really, really like bought into it.
00:29:58
Speaker
And so I think that's also what Billie Eilish was saying, where she was like, she doesn't like how everyone's encouraging people to consume this product that was so obviously harmful for her.
00:30:07
Speaker
And part of that's coming from academic feminists as well as sex work Twitter.
Backlash Against Criticism & Need for Regulation
00:30:12
Speaker
Take it away, Savannah.
00:30:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm ready to hear Savannah's roast.
00:30:15
Speaker
I got into a bit of a kerfuffle with Sex Work Twitter because I, like, rather mindlessly wrote this.
00:30:22
Speaker
I basically said, you know, why am I not surprised that the only people complaining and having a meltdown over what Billie Eilish said was basically Sex Work Twitter?
00:30:32
Speaker
You know, it did the rounds and I started to get sex workers piling in saying, well, it's not the responsibility of sex workers to essentially make sure that children don't see their porn.
00:30:43
Speaker
I found that so disingenuous because it's sex workers that advertise on sites like Instagram, on sites like Reddit, on TikTok, on Twitter that allow minors on the site.
00:30:54
Speaker
So you are advertising on a platform where you know there's minors, but then you're saying that it's the responsibility of parents first and foremost.
00:31:02
Speaker
Secondly, so in the UK, they tried to pass legislation that would mean you would only be able to access a porn site if you had a credit card.
00:31:10
Speaker
Basically, so people over the age of 18.
00:31:13
Speaker
And the porn industry railed against that as well.
00:31:16
Speaker
So when we tried to introduce measures to make it harder for children to access porn on the internet,
00:31:21
Speaker
They didn't like that either.
00:31:22
Speaker
They opposed it.
00:31:24
Speaker
And I'm starting to get, with sex work Twitter, I'm starting to lose my patience with them because it's easy to think that they're all innocent victims of the patriarchy who are just trying to make their way.
00:31:34
Speaker
But I actually reject the idea.
00:31:36
Speaker
It's perfectly possible to be a victim of the patriarchy, as all women are, but also make decisions that perpetuate and enable the patriarchy to continue.
00:31:46
Speaker
And choice sex workers are one of these people.
00:31:49
Speaker
Because I was looking at statistics in Africa, the number of women who are into sex work voluntarily is a lot lower than in countries like the US, where they have things like social security, where women generally have more options.
00:32:05
Speaker
So it's like, this isn't a case of...
00:32:07
Speaker
oh, I'm into porn because I've got no other choice for a lot of these sex workers.
00:32:12
Speaker
They made a choice to go into sex work, and this is why they stringently defend that choice when they are challenged on it.
00:32:20
Speaker
I'm not referring to women who are trafficked or forced into it.
00:32:23
Speaker
That's what I'm referring to.
00:32:25
Speaker
But most of these sex work Twitters, they know what they're doing is seedy.
00:32:28
Speaker
They know that their material is exposed to children, and they just don't give a fuck.
00:32:33
Speaker
Case in point, I actually had a back and forth, I don't know, I asked a question to Buck Angel, who's like a porn star, famously known as the man with the pussy.
00:32:43
Speaker
He's supposed to question like, it's called adult entertainment for a reason.
00:32:48
Speaker
And I responded, being the dork that I am, I was like, hi, Buck, question for you.
00:32:53
Speaker
Do you support laws that would make it harder for minors to access pornography, such as banning porn on websites that minors can access?
00:33:02
Speaker
and introducing strict age verification laws.
00:33:05
Speaker
He didn't respond to me, but he did respond to another reply to, so someone replied to my reply, and then he replied to that reply.
00:33:13
Speaker
So the sort of indirect answer that I got was, oh, we have this like sort of credit card system for certain porn websites.
00:33:20
Speaker
And yeah, there's always creeps on all these, you know, websites advertising to minors.
00:33:26
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, in my head, I'm thinking like,
00:33:28
Speaker
First of all, that's a non-answer.
00:33:30
Speaker
You didn't answer whether you support the laws or not.
00:33:32
Speaker
But I know I was being a little facetious when I asked the question because I know what the answer is going to be.
00:33:36
Speaker
Most porn producers or porn stars do not support age verification laws because they're like, oh, it'll be harder for me to make an income.
00:33:44
Speaker
Good.
00:33:45
Speaker
Honestly, like if you are OK with children having access to porn, that's
00:33:51
Speaker
Because you think that you can make more money that way.
00:33:54
Speaker
You are a bad person.
00:33:56
Speaker
Okay?
00:33:57
Speaker
It's very simple.
00:33:58
Speaker
Like, you're a selfish person, you know, if you are fine with grooming children into the porn industry so that you can make more money.
00:34:04
Speaker
You're complicit.
00:34:05
Speaker
I just think it's really fucked up that sex work Twitter is blaming a literal child for accessing porn.
00:34:11
Speaker
They're like, oh, you were underage, why were you looking at porn?
00:34:14
Speaker
And the reason why we need these laws is because this is a societal problem.
00:34:20
Speaker
It's not a solution to put it on the individual or their parents.
00:34:24
Speaker
This needs to be regulated at the societal level because, you know, what about kids that don't have parents who give a shit about them, right?
00:34:32
Speaker
What about kids without parents, right?
00:34:34
Speaker
So we need to make more of an effort to protect children from this kind of content, even the ones that aren't lucky enough to have parents who care about them.
00:34:42
Speaker
I was getting really annoyed with the reaction, not just on Twitter, but also on places like Reddit, where the first reaction that sex workers has was, oh, is it going to affect my income?
00:34:53
Speaker
Oh, what about me?
00:34:54
Speaker
And just going after Billie Eilish, even though she was speaking about her own experience, for some reason, by social media sex workers, they're the most easily triggered group of people I've ever seen, right?
00:35:07
Speaker
So, and they were just attacking her, even though she herself is still...
00:35:12
Speaker
in many states considered a minor they just thought it was appropriate to attack her for speaking her truth and I was actually quite glad to see porn stars getting ratioed on Twitter for trying to clap back because everyone could see you know what Billie Eilish was saying I don't know how anybody can listen to what she said
00:35:32
Speaker
And then make her out to be the problem for speaking her truth, when actually the problem is that the porn industry is being exposed to children, you know, when they're super, super young.
00:35:42
Speaker
That's the real problem here.
00:35:44
Speaker
And also none of these porn stars have any vested interest in addressing that problem because companies like Mind Geek, who own all the major porn companies, they have a vested interest in getting children addicted to porn.
00:36:01
Speaker
at a very young age because everyone knows even drug dealers know this a young customer is a loyal customer that's what they say mcdonald's does the same thing actually this is like a very and people say oh like i posted this on twitter and someone replied like oh there's no covert conspiracy to you know corrupt the youth of america or something like that and it's not covert it's actually very overt it's like explicitly yeah it's overt they're doing
00:36:24
Speaker
it on purpose.
00:36:24
Speaker
They're doing this on purpose.
00:36:25
Speaker
Like this is explicitly a big part of McDonald's marketing strategy.
00:36:29
Speaker
You know, the whole happy meals with toys and stuff.
00:36:32
Speaker
The purpose of this is to get kids hooked on fast food from a young age so that they become loyal customers.
00:36:37
Speaker
And even I, my parents gave me a lot of McDonald's when I was a kid.
00:36:40
Speaker
Again, I wish they didn't.
00:36:41
Speaker
But even as an adult, if I go into a McDonald's, I have this weird like nostalgia feeling.
00:36:46
Speaker
It makes me feel kind of like, you know, warm and like comfort and reminds me of my childhood and stuff.
00:36:50
Speaker
And it's like, like, I'm
00:36:52
Speaker
fucking pissed off that I fell for their marketing, right?
00:36:55
Speaker
Like, it works, right?
00:36:57
Speaker
It does groom you from a young age into, like, desiring that, right?
00:37:00
Speaker
So the younger you get someone hooked on something, the harder it is for them to quit.
00:37:05
Speaker
And it's a way of guaranteeing a customer for life.
00:37:08
Speaker
And this is what we're seeing.
00:37:09
Speaker
We're seeing these porn addicts on Reddit saying, I've got 12 terabytes of porn and I've been addicted since 11.
00:37:17
Speaker
It also doesn't help the fact that the American Psychological Association doesn't see porn addiction as a real thing.
00:37:25
Speaker
But then you have to remember that psychology has forever been biased in favour of men to the detriment of women, even though men in their 20s are presenting with erectile dysfunction and they are listing all sorts of problems due to porn consumption.
00:37:41
Speaker
So, for example, seeing women as objects.
00:37:44
Speaker
and just not being able to perform sexually, and also the rise of increasingly violent porn that we see in BDSM, apparently it's still not an addiction.
00:37:53
Speaker
Plus, don't underestimate the role of capitalism in all of this, because a lot of the discussion on porn and what porn is doing to the population as a product really, really mirrors what happened with the tobacco industry, right?
00:38:06
Speaker
Same deal.
00:38:06
Speaker
They tried to get kids hooked on it.
00:38:08
Speaker
They suppressed all the research that was clearly showing that causing lung cancer in people.
Capitalism & Media's Role in Porn Narratives
00:38:14
Speaker
They got doctors endorsing.
00:38:16
Speaker
There was a time where they had doctors saying like, oh, yeah, smoke cigarettes, it'll cure your lung cancer, that kind of shit, right?
00:38:21
Speaker
So just because there are sex therapists nowadays saying porn is wonderful and great and healthy doesn't mean that they're right.
00:38:27
Speaker
Like they could just be captured.
00:38:29
Speaker
They did the same thing with sugar.
00:38:30
Speaker
Sugar was actually pointed as the culprit in rising obesity rates as well as diabetes.
00:38:36
Speaker
The sugar industry suppressed all the research on that and to promote the idea that it was fat that was making people fat and not actually increase sugar in products.
00:38:45
Speaker
So...
00:38:45
Speaker
Don't underestimate the role of capitalism in suppressing any type of research that would show the harmful effects of porn, which we're now kind of all looking around and being like, it's so clearly obvious, right?
00:38:57
Speaker
Especially porn use among children, but even adults, as we frequently talked about here, and also the effects of the porn industry on the performers themselves.
00:39:05
Speaker
And so there's a vested interest both from the industry, but also factors behind the scenes of them,
00:39:13
Speaker
Again, once again, sponsoring all these diploma mill sex posi schools where they have all this quote unquote research that shows that porn is good.
00:39:20
Speaker
Porn is enhancing relationships.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, self-reported studies from Coomers being like, I love porn.
00:39:25
Speaker
Porn is great.
00:39:25
Speaker
It's definitely not negatively impacted my relationships at all.
00:39:28
Speaker
I want to hear from the partners of those dudes.
00:39:31
Speaker
Some of it has to do with the way that they actually design the discussion to come out with the outcomes that they want.
00:39:37
Speaker
Meanwhile, a lot of the porn researchers, people like Gail Dines, a couple of months ago, we did the Culture Reframe conference that was full of educators and researchers who could clearly see links between porn use, especially in adolescence, and later sexual dysfunction, as well as all sorts of horrible attitudes towards women, as well as women internalizing the messages from porn and having horrible attitudes towards themselves.
00:40:00
Speaker
So the research is out there, but I cannot tell you how many times where you look at mainstream media and they pretend like it's not there, that, oh, it's only just the religious right that's being critical of porn, or there's no evidence that porn causes harm, and that's just not true.
00:40:15
Speaker
And the eye-opener for me, especially talking with Dr. Dines, is just how much research actually is out there that the mainstream media refuses to cover, right?
00:40:24
Speaker
That the mainstream media is deliberately ignoring, acting like it's an ideological bent, while they still
00:40:30
Speaker
push the ideological idea that porn is going to, the industry is going to turn around and we're going to all participate in ethical porn and that's going to solve all the racism and sexism.
00:40:40
Speaker
Girl, do you want to go off on that?
00:40:42
Speaker
Savannah, go ahead.
00:40:44
Speaker
Go on.
00:40:44
Speaker
Go on.
00:40:45
Speaker
Go ahead, because I have a minute for that on the concept of ethical porn.
00:40:49
Speaker
And like, I just feel like they're fully delusional.
00:40:51
Speaker
But go ahead, Savannah.
00:40:53
Speaker
Then I'll jump in.
00:40:54
Speaker
Ethical porn, where to even start?
00:40:56
Speaker
So I got this argument as well about how there's loads of ethical porn.
00:41:00
Speaker
And I've seen this argument, you know, trotted around by both sexists.
00:41:04
Speaker
by both sex workers and kumas, who seem to believe that when a kuma wants to jack off, they will search for a video, they will find... They'll search feminist porn.
00:41:14
Speaker
They'll search feminist porn, and they'll do deep research to make sure that both actresses really wanted to be in the video.
00:41:21
Speaker
Bull fucking shit.
00:41:22
Speaker
We all know that when a guy wants to watch porn, he fires up Pornhub and cannot give their slightest shit if she consented or not.
00:41:30
Speaker
And also, ethical porn.
00:41:31
Speaker
Like, how can...
00:41:33
Speaker
The porn industry can never be ethical because, like, most women don't grow up wanting to fuck men they're not attracted to for money.
00:41:42
Speaker
I'd say the vast majority don't.
00:41:44
Speaker
So unlike a field like engineering or nursing or being a doctor, even though they do have, like, female shoulders, but anyway...
00:41:53
Speaker
Like most women don't aspire to do that.
00:41:54
Speaker
So how do they feel?
00:41:56
Speaker
Like, how do they meet the demand unless they resort to exploitation, unless they resort to deception to get women in there?
00:42:04
Speaker
This is why there can't ever be such a thing as ethical pornography.
00:42:08
Speaker
It's not like you can have, for example, like the sustainable clothing industry, you know, that's a viable industry because there are people who actually want to make clothes from scratch, who like sewing, who like dressmaking.
00:42:22
Speaker
right?
00:42:22
Speaker
But in the porn industry, there is not- there are not enough women who want to fuck men who look like Ron Jeremy.
00:42:27
Speaker
Right.
00:42:29
Speaker
You know, for money.
00:42:30
Speaker
There's just not enough women who are willing to do that.
00:42:33
Speaker
And also, like, quote-unquote ethical porn, it's just not profitable, right?
00:42:36
Speaker
Like, most men who watch porn, they want to see the extreme stuff.
00:42:39
Speaker
They want to see women being fucking sexually tortured, okay?
00:42:42
Speaker
The racism, the misogyny.
00:42:44
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:42:46
Speaker
Like, the fucked up thing to me is, like, they always talk about this, like, fantasy world as if, like, Coomers only masturbate to videos of, like, men and women, a husband and wife passionately making love in the missionary position kind of thing.
00:42:59
Speaker
No, like, most of the time, like...
00:43:02
Speaker
First of all, I used to watch porn, so I know what fucking shit is out there, okay?
00:43:05
Speaker
So when you defend the porn industry, you're defending all porn, including the racist stuff, including the incest stuff, including the trafficking and everything like that.
00:43:15
Speaker
Like, quote-unquote ethical porn is what?
00:43:17
Speaker
Like, maybe 1% of the entire porn industry?
00:43:20
Speaker
And that's not the kind of porn that's- Not even that.
00:43:22
Speaker
Not even that.
00:43:22
Speaker
Not even that.
00:43:23
Speaker
Yeah, most of it is unethical.
00:43:25
Speaker
When you support the porn industry, you're also supporting the unethical shit.
00:43:28
Speaker
And the porn industry thrives, like Lila said, on pushing boundaries.
00:43:31
Speaker
I remember when I used to produce it myself, there'd be a video of a woman who wasn't showing her face, and
00:43:38
Speaker
obviously i guess for security reasons or to not get doxed or whatever the comments would be full of men saying oh can you show your face can you show your face i'm like what is it about pushing boundaries but then i realized that that is what the porn industry is all about is about pushing women's boundaries this woman clearly didn't want to show her face even though she was showing every other part of her body but that still wasn't enough for men they just had to keep pushing
00:44:02
Speaker
I wish I could find the study and if I can, I'll link it in the show notes.
00:44:05
Speaker
But there was this sex positive porn researcher who was complaining that people of color get paid less in the porn industry and they're often asked to do more degrading acts.
00:44:17
Speaker
And they talked about the average price that a black sex worker or a trans sex worker can demand versus a white female.
00:44:25
Speaker
And then just made it seem like it was an ethical disparity of our time and that we had to support black trans sex workers and black performers.
00:44:32
Speaker
And I'm like, once again, the racism is built into the issue.
00:44:37
Speaker
What exactly are you proposing?
00:44:39
Speaker
Are you supposed to put a white female performer and she's in the middle of a blowjob and then someone comes through and like slaps the dick out of her mouth and puts a black trans woman there?
00:44:47
Speaker
Like, does that even make sense?
00:44:48
Speaker
Like, are you trying to police?
00:44:50
Speaker
How can you realistically police the kinds of things that men masturbate to?
00:44:55
Speaker
Right.
00:44:55
Speaker
They're trying to act like this is some kind of normal product by which you could just like adjust your consumer taste.
00:45:01
Speaker
But that's just not how this works.
00:45:03
Speaker
Like the racism, the sexism, the discrimination is built into the model.
00:45:08
Speaker
Also, I just want to point out that every time like a woman is gang raped in India, her name is always at the top of porn sites.
00:45:13
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:45:14
Speaker
Right?
00:45:14
Speaker
Like they always want to see the videos of women actually being raped.
00:45:18
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:45:19
Speaker
I'm dead serious.
00:45:19
Speaker
You can Google this.
00:45:21
Speaker
Like there was a woman who was like, I think she was like gang raped and then like burned to death and a bunch of dudes were jerking off to the video of her being killed.
00:45:28
Speaker
I'm not even kidding.
00:45:29
Speaker
Like, the things that male sexual depravity knows no bounds, okay?
00:45:33
Speaker
So this idea, and the other thing is, like, in terms of the racism, men will actually, like, specifically search for videos of, like, you know, white slave master whipping black woman, or, like, you know, police officer raping black woman, that kind of shit.
00:45:47
Speaker
Like, they will specifically, and they'll use more degrading language than black women, but I don't want to say that out loud.
00:45:52
Speaker
So...
00:45:53
Speaker
Anyone who says the porn industry isn't racist, I challenge them, double dare them to find me a video of a woman of color in a porn video that is not racist.
00:46:05
Speaker
Find me a title of a video of such a video that is not racist.
00:46:11
Speaker
That is not racist.
00:46:12
Speaker
That doesn't have a racial slur in it.
00:46:14
Speaker
They straight up categorize women by race.
00:46:18
Speaker
I mean, it's right on the front!
00:46:21
Speaker
Eboni!
00:46:21
Speaker
Spicy Latina!
00:46:23
Speaker
Submissive Asian!
00:46:24
Speaker
Ebony whatever!
00:46:25
Speaker
It's absurd!
00:46:27
Speaker
It's actually absurd.
00:46:28
Speaker
And any woman of colour who has dated men will tell you that this fetishisation then seeps into women who are outside the porn industry.
00:46:38
Speaker
They are also fetishised as well.
00:46:41
Speaker
And it's absolutely disgusting.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah, no, for men, the depravity, the oppression, the brutality of it is a feature, not a bug.
00:46:49
Speaker
They remain delusional about that.
00:46:51
Speaker
And that actually is my biggest frustration with liberal, yeah, liberal feminists is because whenever they talk about the sex industry, they keep talking about it like, oh, it's going to be just like therapy or it's going to just be like any other job.
00:47:01
Speaker
And like, then you don't understand the product that they're selling.
00:47:04
Speaker
The product that they're selling is the degradation.
00:47:06
Speaker
The product that they're selling is the abuse.
00:47:09
Speaker
Porn has been legal for decades.
00:47:11
Speaker
I don't know how long, but like for a long time now.
00:47:14
Speaker
And the porn industry and the porn actresses haven't magically become respected members of society, right?
00:47:21
Speaker
They seem to be delusional about the product that sex work is.
00:47:24
Speaker
It is... How I look at it, honestly, I think it's just like sex work, especially like quote unquote full service sex work, aka prostitution, is just...
00:47:32
Speaker
people of means molesting the poor and then buying their silence.
00:47:36
Speaker
Like the entire industry is based on exploitation of the working class, first of all.
00:47:42
Speaker
Secondly, it's also based on the concept that they're paying women to do things that other women would not do for them willingly, right?
00:47:51
Speaker
That's the point.
00:47:52
Speaker
They're trying to buy consent rather than
00:47:55
Speaker
consent given to them willingly and freely.
00:47:57
Speaker
And the people that are incentivized to let their consent be bought are people who don't have money, right?
00:48:04
Speaker
So it is straight up a hostile attack on the working class.
00:48:09
Speaker
And I talked about this a little bit on female political strategy, but a lot of times why people don't understand why like conservative women just wholeheartedly
00:48:18
Speaker
reject a lot of liberal feminist values is because overwhelmingly conservative women tend to be working class and you're not going to convince them that sexual exploitation via prostitution or sleeping around is empowering for them.
00:48:31
Speaker
They're not stupid.
00:48:32
Speaker
And I wish they would stop trying to push this narrative because it does come across like you're just like attacking.
00:48:38
Speaker
You're basically saying, okay, I'm sorry you couldn't cut it in this economy and you're a working class or poor woman, but have you considered sucking multiple dicks
00:48:46
Speaker
Right?
00:48:47
Speaker
For money.
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's completely a hostile form of feminism.
00:48:50
Speaker
And so I just need people to understand that because, or I'm yelling at liberal feminists to like really understand that and really conceptualize why you're not getting support you think you should get from the quote unquote conservative women or the conservative feminists because they're straight up repulsed by this aspect of the culture that you keep pushing because it's going to be them and their daughters that are going to be the victims of this as working class people.
00:49:15
Speaker
I'm so angry.
00:49:16
Speaker
Like my blood is boiling right now.
00:49:18
Speaker
I'm so pissed off.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:20
Speaker
So I want to pivot to kind of a slightly more optimistic discussion, which is what can we actually do to help regulate porn so that children don't have access to it and that we could cut off some of this, cut off some of the more abusive aspects of the porn industry.
Proposed Regulations for Porn Industry
00:49:36
Speaker
We wrote a handy dandy Twitter thread as well as an Instagram post on suggested regulations for porn.
00:49:44
Speaker
So I'll link this in our show notes.
00:49:48
Speaker
I mean, I think it should be banned altogether.
00:49:49
Speaker
I think porn should be illegal, but I think that's going to be a lot harder because of the whole free speech coalition and kind of shit.
00:49:55
Speaker
So we have to find a way of, like, trying to work with the existing laws the best we can, even though the existing laws kind of fucking suck.
00:50:02
Speaker
But...
00:50:03
Speaker
Yeah, let's see.
00:50:04
Speaker
What are some things we can do?
00:50:05
Speaker
My two cents is I think the protection of free speech is so important that I'm not necessarily open to the banning of porn, but that's my personal opinion.
00:50:13
Speaker
We'll discuss it more on female political strategy.
00:50:15
Speaker
Shameless plug.
00:50:15
Speaker
No, I'm pro-authoritarian on this.
00:50:18
Speaker
I'm cool with authoritarianism on this.
00:50:21
Speaker
Send the Coomers to Gulags.
00:50:23
Speaker
Ban porn.
00:50:24
Speaker
That's my political policy.
00:50:26
Speaker
Vote Lilith 2022.
00:50:27
Speaker
But I also think that producers of porn and the models and actresses and those on OnlyFans as well also need to be held more accountable.
00:50:37
Speaker
This whole they're all victims is not...
00:50:41
Speaker
is just not true.
00:50:42
Speaker
And it allows them to ride both horses of being the victim when it suits them, i.e.
00:50:47
Speaker
when they need to be held accountable, and be the empowered women when they're telling everyone to fuck off and let them create their porn that everybody else has to look at.
00:50:55
Speaker
Like...
00:50:56
Speaker
I am personally so sad about how Instagram has gone because I've been on Instagram for years now and I used to follow it just for like the fashion inspo and just for workouts, stuff like that.
00:51:07
Speaker
It's slowly become a soft porn site.
00:51:09
Speaker
Like yesterday I was browsing and it's like, why am I seeing a woman's nipples on my timeline?
00:51:15
Speaker
Like why and how am I seeing her nipples?
00:51:18
Speaker
Why?
00:51:18
Speaker
Instagram is not for porn and they get so, like, sex workers get so angry when sites either restrict their content or ban them.
00:51:28
Speaker
It's like, well, yeah, it's not a porn site.
00:51:31
Speaker
That's not what it was for.
00:51:33
Speaker
So here's our suggestions for common sense porn regulations.
00:51:36
Speaker
Number one, raising the minimum age to appear in porn videos to 21.
00:51:41
Speaker
No more gross-ass pedophile teen category.
00:51:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:46
Speaker
I agree.
00:51:46
Speaker
So this is a way to protect our citizens or the citizens of countries that are manufacturing porn.
00:51:52
Speaker
I'm preempting the argument that I heard from Coomer.
00:51:54
Speaker
It's like, well, other countries, their limit's still going to be 18.
00:51:57
Speaker
So how is this going to change anything?
00:51:58
Speaker
And I'm like, well, no, it's about every single government protecting their consumers as well as their actresses.
00:52:05
Speaker
The point is to protect American citizens, Canadian citizens, UK citizens from being exploited by the porn industry.
00:52:12
Speaker
Now, if they're over 21, I don't know if the over 21 thing will stop men from pressuring women who look really, really young for their age to pretending to be teens.
00:52:23
Speaker
But I don't like the idea that you can literally be in high school and being recruited by the porn industry, which has happened to several actresses who have come out and talked about this, that they started porn their senior year of high school, etc.,
00:52:33
Speaker
It's a vice.
00:52:34
Speaker
It's an entertainment medium.
00:52:36
Speaker
It's not curing cancer.
00:52:37
Speaker
This is not the same as being a soldier.
00:52:39
Speaker
I hate that argument, too.
00:52:41
Speaker
This is an optional entertainment industry that exists solely for men's kumarism.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's wild to be that in the States you have to be you can be 18 and be in porn, which could ruin your life, but you can't have a beer.
00:52:53
Speaker
Right.
00:52:54
Speaker
Like you have to be 21 to drink.
00:52:55
Speaker
That's weird to me.
00:52:56
Speaker
There's a long history about that, but essentially to help cut down on drunk driving and drunk driving accidents.
00:53:03
Speaker
So most vice laws put the age of full adulthood at 21 because of the fact that I think people figured out, yeah, their brains are still developing.
00:53:12
Speaker
under 21.
00:53:13
Speaker
So they're not yet able to, like them consuming these products at that age is actually extremely detrimental for the public health, both for the consumers and for the people who produce the product.
00:53:23
Speaker
So the other reason why I would support this law is because it would also, or it would curb some of the grooming that's been going on.
00:53:30
Speaker
You know, women who get an OnlyFans on their 18th birthday, it's not like
00:53:34
Speaker
she got the idea on her 18th birthday, right?
00:53:37
Speaker
Most likely she'd been seeing, you know, TikToks or, you know, whatever.
00:53:42
Speaker
In fact, I see this all the time on TikTok.
00:53:44
Speaker
You know, so there's a sex worker, OnlyFans girly talking about how much money she makes.
00:53:48
Speaker
There's all these comments that are like, saving it for when I'm, when I turn 18 and these girls are like 12, 13, 14 years old.
00:53:54
Speaker
If you delay it a little bit longer so that they can't have the account until they're 21, it'll maybe either give them more time to think about it
00:54:02
Speaker
Or it'll like make it harder to groom teens into porn, basically.
00:54:06
Speaker
Disincentivize the literal teen categories that they have on porn sites.
00:54:11
Speaker
That's like pedo shit.
00:54:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:12
Speaker
Because they'll have to know anybody who's an American actress has to be 21.
00:54:17
Speaker
Like just ruin that fantasy for them completely.
00:54:19
Speaker
It's gross.
00:54:20
Speaker
And not just that, here's the other thing, is there needs to be a law such that all participants in, like, if it's porn that's being shown on a website consumed in the U.S., there needs to be a law saying that all participants need to be 21 or older.
00:54:35
Speaker
There has to be age verification, even if it's made in another country.
00:54:39
Speaker
Our next one is all porn sites must be behind a paywall, which can only be unlocked for the valid credit card.
00:54:46
Speaker
Doesn't matter if they charge a dollar, make it legally required to pay.
00:54:49
Speaker
No more accidentally letting kids view porn with a click of a button.
00:54:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:53
Speaker
Which when I was younger...
00:54:55
Speaker
Porn had to be covered in like some kind of plastic film so you couldn't tell it was porn.
00:55:00
Speaker
So it's basically doing the same thing for the digital age where the porn has to be behind the counter, right?
00:55:05
Speaker
Behind the counter and the digital age is behind a paywall.
00:55:08
Speaker
I mean, before Kymus said, oh, but privacy, I don't want people to know I watch porn.
00:55:13
Speaker
Well, if you're ashamed of people, if you're ashamed.
00:55:18
Speaker
if you're ashamed that maybe you shouldn't fucking maybe you shouldn't fucking watch it then yeah i mean back in the day there a lot of guys would my dad was telling me how like back in my day when we had magazines uh you know you would keep your eyes if you live if you're in a small town especially you have to like keep your head down and hope nobody saw you you know buying the really fucked up porn because people would judge you for and i'm like good you should
00:55:40
Speaker
Should be judged for it.
00:55:41
Speaker
And there's so many intermediate payment companies now, you know, between PayPal.
00:55:45
Speaker
I know PayPal actually completely pulled out of the porn industry altogether because of them having concerns about the amount of trafficking that was going on.
00:55:53
Speaker
But there's so many of these intermediate and paid companies that you could, you know, you could put it on your bank account, but it'll go through like one of the like... Moneris or something like that.
00:56:00
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:01
Speaker
Yes.
00:56:02
Speaker
New payments, et cetera.
00:56:03
Speaker
So this is just a non-concern that they're using to just once again...
00:56:08
Speaker
thwart the idea i'm a big fan as well of shame i think shame stops us from being from doing stupid shit so i don't care if people feel ashamed that their credit card company is going to find out they watch porn because maybe that means you just shouldn't watch it regulation number three change the domain for pornographic websites from dot com to dot xxx easier for parents and internet providers to block
00:56:34
Speaker
Agreed.
00:56:35
Speaker
So making specific domains for pornographic sites in the same way we have things like.gov or.org for different organizations that are part of the government, etc.
00:56:46
Speaker
Make a specific domain for pornographic websites so that they can be unilaterally blocked.
00:56:52
Speaker
by parents and porn providers.
00:56:54
Speaker
Now, once again, things like VPN, et cetera, there are always ways around it.
00:56:58
Speaker
But the point is to make the accessing of porn more difficult and make it easier for parents to regulate porn use.
00:57:05
Speaker
Because as is, especially, even me as a kid having parents that obviously didn't want me to watch porn and were concerned about it, it was so easy for me to get around it.
00:57:15
Speaker
It shouldn't be that easy for a child to do that.
00:57:18
Speaker
Yeah, it would make it easier for schools and workplaces and so on to ban it, too.
00:57:22
Speaker
You'd be surprised how many dudes masturbate at work.
00:57:25
Speaker
Like, I fired a guy, actually, for masturbating in the bathroom at work.
00:57:29
Speaker
Just want to say that.
00:57:31
Speaker
But yeah.
00:57:32
Speaker
Like, he would take, like, 20 to 30 minute, like, paid breaks, which he wasn't supposed to be doing, and would jerk off in the bathroom.
00:57:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:42
Speaker
Number four, hold porn streaming platforms accountable for their content.
00:57:45
Speaker
If someone uploads trafficking, the site can be legally sued by the person in the video or anyone else who watches it.
00:57:51
Speaker
They can afford it and it will force them to be more stringent about amateur porn and validating consent.
00:57:57
Speaker
So this is kind of sort of what happened once Nick Kristoff did his piece in the New York Times about the fact that there were so many girls who were having their porn involuntarily uploaded to those porn sites, either because of revenge porn or there's, I don't want to, most of them like don't want to sleep, want to be publicly identified, but a lot of them were raped or sexually abused in some way.
00:58:22
Speaker
And that being uploaded to sites, being downloaded by millions of people,
00:58:25
Speaker
when they were underage and there was nothing they could do about it.
00:58:28
Speaker
So in response to this article, credit card companies pulled their support of porn sites and then Pornhub was forced to go in and scrub amateur videos and a lot of the other things that were like outright rape or rape adjacent.
00:58:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
both in the headlines and the description.
00:58:42
Speaker
So I think that publishing laws should be more stringent on porn publishers, right?
00:58:49
Speaker
Or like platform laws too.
00:58:50
Speaker
Like there's a lot of discussion about when does a platform become a publisher, right?
00:58:54
Speaker
This is an ongoing discussion between Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, et cetera, and Congress where it's like, if you start censoring some things or you choose to censor others, when do you go from being a platform to being a publisher?
00:59:07
Speaker
And what is the limits of the Section 230, which perfects
00:59:10
Speaker
which prevents platformers in the United States from being held accountable for the content that's on their site.
00:59:15
Speaker
Increasingly, there seems to be a political will and desire to start to hold these platforms accountable for being for publishing laws.
00:59:23
Speaker
Publishers.
00:59:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:25
Speaker
I like that.
00:59:26
Speaker
Because the fact, and a lot of it's coming in from right-wing media too, because they've been censored, sometimes rightfully so and stuff that's crazy.
00:59:32
Speaker
But the problem is, is like that then becomes a publishing decision as to which kinds of opinions you're allowing versus otherwise, which means that you're no longer a neutral platform.
00:59:41
Speaker
And maybe it was always like delusional to think that these platforms were going to be able to remain...
00:59:46
Speaker
like completely out of any type of editorial curating for as long as they did because of the fact that honestly men are the worst and any type of platform that exists they're going to put some of the most craziest abusive violence they're going to put nazi shit on it that has to be removed yeah yeah nazi shit
01:00:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely disgusting.
01:00:05
Speaker
Remember jailbait porn on Reddit?
01:00:07
Speaker
Like the like the fake jailbait stuff that was just straight up shots of like 14 year olds, 15 year olds said that Reddit actually invited, by the way, the the head mod of that site to one of their like Reddit, like Reddit events.
01:00:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:22
Speaker
So Reddit, like from the beginning has been.
01:00:26
Speaker
under the guise of free speech, platforming predators and platforming people that are sexually depraved.
01:00:32
Speaker
So they're trying to go public now, so they're trying to, quote-unquote, clean some of that stuff up, but not very well.
01:00:38
Speaker
While we're on the topic of the free speech thing, I do want to say that...
01:00:42
Speaker
even when there is free speech, certain types of speech are regulated.
01:00:47
Speaker
Like, for example, consumer protection laws, right?
01:00:50
Speaker
A company can't just make a bunch of false claims about their product and be like, oh, but it's free speech, right?
01:00:56
Speaker
Because they're lying.
01:00:57
Speaker
That's fraud, right?
01:00:58
Speaker
So certain types... The other one is, yeah, literal fraud.
01:01:01
Speaker
You can't just lie to someone to get money...
01:01:04
Speaker
And, like, just take their money and run.
01:01:06
Speaker
You know, you can't make a bunch of promises like that and commit fraud like that.
01:01:10
Speaker
So, yeah, certain types of speech is actually regulated if it's seen as, like, harmful to the general public.
01:01:15
Speaker
And porn definitely fucking fits into that category of being harmful to the general public.
01:01:21
Speaker
So...
01:01:22
Speaker
I'm totally on board with regulating porn in certain types of way.
01:01:25
Speaker
I think banning is where it gets a little bit sticky with our First Amendment rights.
01:01:29
Speaker
But number five, porn producers get a mandatory tax on earnings to help fight human trafficking, just like tobacco gets taxed to make the anti-smoking ads.
01:01:38
Speaker
In the United States, as part of – I don't know if this is what you guys do, but they have vice taxes on certain types of products that are known to be harmful to public health.
01:01:50
Speaker
they mandate that a percentage of their actual earnings go towards disincentivizing people for using their product.
01:01:57
Speaker
So they're like, literally, the tobacco industry can't advertise on television.
01:02:01
Speaker
They're banned from advertising on television.
01:02:03
Speaker
And in addition to that, they have to fund those like truth ads.
01:02:07
Speaker
I don't know if you guys have ever seen them.
01:02:09
Speaker
Maybe not.
01:02:09
Speaker
But they're like, they're literally publicly, they're usually funded by, partially by public funds, but also by the tobacco industry, where they talk about
01:02:17
Speaker
how tobacco is killing people.
01:02:19
Speaker
Good.
01:02:20
Speaker
So... Yeah, no, I fully support that.
01:02:22
Speaker
Porn should be taxed more heavily and they should do advertisements to be like, don't watch porn.
01:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, good.
01:02:28
Speaker
Agree.
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:30
Speaker
So...
01:02:33
Speaker
Yeah, so that's our five-point plan about very reasonable, fairly easy things to do that would massively, massively change the ability for kids to access porn as well as the public.
01:02:45
Speaker
And adults.
01:02:45
Speaker
And adults.
01:02:46
Speaker
And the culture and the ability, the culture around porn as it is.
01:02:50
Speaker
Yes, and we're not saying that if we implement these, absolutely no child will access porn.
01:02:55
Speaker
We know that people slip through the cracks, but...
01:02:57
Speaker
But as it is now, the porn industry is making no effort to safeguard children.
01:03:03
Speaker
And that's deeply problematic.
01:03:05
Speaker
I would put number six, major media platforms that are considering themselves platforms.
01:03:11
Speaker
If they have people under the age of 18 that are users, can't also host porn.
01:03:16
Speaker
I agree.
01:03:17
Speaker
That means hold Twitter accountable, hold Reddit accountable, meaning either make your platform 18 and up or 21 and up, as it were,
01:03:25
Speaker
or keep your platform available for everyone who is
01:03:30
Speaker
13 and up or 14 up, whatever it is now, but ban porn from your site.
01:03:33
Speaker
You can't have both because it's way, way, way too easy for children to access porn as it is.
01:03:38
Speaker
So I think we're going to update our five regulations and make it six and then put that on a carousel on our Instagram so people can see it.
01:03:46
Speaker
Please share and share it around once we post it because I think that everyone acting as if it's impossible to regulate porn is just fully delusional.
01:03:53
Speaker
There's just so many really simple things the government can be doing.
01:03:57
Speaker
Hopefully there'll be some kind of political will.
01:03:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:59
Speaker
To get this done, to protect kids of future generations so they don't have the kinds of exposure and grooming that we unfortunately had.
01:04:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:07
Speaker
Can I just say one last thing about the Twitter thing?
01:04:10
Speaker
Go for it.
01:04:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:11
Speaker
A lot of porn performers, they tend to go like at the idea of them not being able to advertise their services on platforms that include children.
01:04:22
Speaker
And I just want to tell them to go fuck themselves and stop grooming kids.
01:04:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:28
Speaker
Okay, groomer.
01:04:30
Speaker
They're doing it on purpose.
01:04:31
Speaker
Like, they know what they're doing.
01:04:33
Speaker
Or they just don't care, right?
01:04:35
Speaker
And so I don't care if it makes porn stars sad or if it makes it harder for them to get an income or if it makes it harder for them to advertise their services.
01:04:42
Speaker
They're not allowed to advertise their... I don't think that they should be allowed to post adult content on websites that children use.
01:04:50
Speaker
But this shouldn't even be controversial.
01:04:52
Speaker
It's like, just imagine if they said, oh, you know, let's run an ad for Pornhub on Nickelodeon.
01:04:56
Speaker
They'd be told to fuck off.
01:04:58
Speaker
So this shouldn't be controversial.
01:05:01
Speaker
And who is your target audience here?
01:05:03
Speaker
If you're saying that porn isn't for children, then you should be perfectly fine with the idea of only advertising on sites that are 18 plus, unless you want to appeal to children, right?
01:05:17
Speaker
And Twitter is currently being sued for aiding and abetting trafficking on their site.
01:05:21
Speaker
There actually is an active lawsuit about this from women who were trafficked.
01:05:24
Speaker
Which one?
01:05:25
Speaker
Women and men who were trafficked when they were underage are actually in a class action lawsuit against Twitter right now.
01:05:30
Speaker
So we'll see how that ends up.
01:05:32
Speaker
I hope they win.
01:05:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:34
Speaker
If there's the political will.
01:05:35
Speaker
And sadly, sadly, there only seems to be political will coming from conservatives right now, which is really, again, once again, disappointing because it's becoming one of those things where I really wish there would be more bipartisan support on this.
01:05:49
Speaker
I'm looking at the leftists on this one.
01:05:50
Speaker
There was bipartisan support on drug reform.
01:05:53
Speaker
There needs to be bipartisan support on porn reform.
01:05:56
Speaker
Roll up our sleeves.
01:05:57
Speaker
Let's get down and dirty because let's be real, like, men in the patriarchy, they're not going to do this work.
01:06:01
Speaker
It's up to us women and us and fucking radfems as usual to be like Atlas holding up the sky, holding up society.
01:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, so let's roll up our sleeves, lady, and let's get these laws passed.
01:06:14
Speaker
Okay, so that's our show.
01:06:16
Speaker
Please check out our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com as well as our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy for bonus content, merchandise, chit-chat about this episode with us on Discord.
01:06:29
Speaker
Also follow us on Twitter for all the drama.
01:06:33
Speaker
drama between us and sex or Twitter at femdatstrat or our individual Twitter accounts, which you can also find in the link at femdatstrat.
01:06:40
Speaker
So at ro underscore FDS, et cetera, et cetera.
01:06:43
Speaker
So thanks for listening, Queens.
01:06:45
Speaker
And for all you disgusting coomers out there, you don't have a constitutional right to orgasm, to trafficked, abused women or to anything racist.
01:06:53
Speaker
So we're coming for your fat material.
01:06:55
Speaker
Die mad.
01:06:56
Speaker
See you next week.