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SIPA Paranormal Chronicles S1 E10 UFO Investigator Chris Styles
19 Plays21 days ago
In this week's episode, we are delighted to talk to Chris Styles, an active UFO researcher who investigates classic and select current UFO incidents that have occurred in Atlantic Canada.
He is best known for his work on the 1967 Shag Harbour Incident and has presented at several MUFON symposia in both Canada and the US.
He has appeared in several US, UFO specials, such as “Canada’s Roswell” and “UFOs II, Have We Been Visited?” In 2019 Styles appeared in an episode of “Ocean Mysteries” with Celine Fabien Cousteau.
Chris is the co-author of two UFO books on the Shag Harbour Incident, “Dark Object” (Dell Bantam) with Don Ledger & “Impact to Contact” (Arcadia House) with Graham Simms.
In 2023 MUFON Canada presented Chris with an honorary membership in recognition of his lifetime achievement in Ufology.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to SEPA Paranormal Chronicles
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Okay, welcome everybody to another episode of SEPA Paranormal Chronicles. And i am joined today by my regular co-host, Megan. Say hello, Megan.
00:00:22
Megan anderson
Bye.
00:00:23
Lee Hatfield
And our
Chris Stiles' Journey into UFO Research
00:00:24
Lee Hatfield
special guest today is Chris Stiles, who is a UFO investigator and a UFO researcher. Welcome, Chris.
00:00:35
Chris Styles
It's good to be here, Lee.
00:00:37
Lee Hatfield
Perfect. So i know that you're extremely... yeah Famous, if we can say that, with about the ship the Shag Harbour incident.
00:00:45
Chris Styles
Well,
00:00:48
Lee Hatfield
But before we get into that, can you please tell me how you first got involved with UFO investigating?
00:00:48
Chris Styles
but
00:00:55
Chris Styles
well It was in the early 90s. It would have been April 1992 that led to me coming in. And what it was was, strangely, I'd always had a general layman's interest in it, as many people do, you know, in the topic, right, over the years, but it never belonged to a group.
00:01:15
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:01:15
Chris Styles
You
Investigating the Shag Harbor Incident
00:01:15
Chris Styles
know, I would read have read classic books like The UFO Experience by Alan Hynek, you know, treated the premise, you know, the questions very seriously, but had no direct involvement. But in 1992, I was watching a rerun of Unsolved Mysteries with a girlfriend.
00:01:33
Chris Styles
And this was the first time, believe it or not, I'd heard of the Roswell incident. And, uh, it was that segment that was on there that involved people like Kevin Randall, Stanton Friedman, et cetera, in the production.
00:01:45
Lee Hatfield
right there.
00:01:46
Chris Styles
And we watched the story and when it was over, uh, my friend said, do you think such a thing's possible? Like, is it? And of course I had my memories of the Shag Harbor
Challenges in UFO Investigations
00:01:57
Chris Styles
incident. And I said, I know it can be because it happened here.
00:02:01
Chris Styles
And I started telling my story and she encouraged me. She said, you know, the fellow that was on there, the nuclear physicist, which of course was the late Stanton Friedman. She said he lives in Frederick in New Brunswick now.
00:02:12
Chris Styles
Her parents and her family were from there. So I'm like, well, yeah. And she said, you should call him. I said, yeah, I'll do that. And she knew me well and said, no, you won't. You say that, but you'll never get around to And she grabbed the old landline, you know, and set it in my lap and I have to say, Double Dog dared me to call him.
00:02:34
Chris Styles
Well, in those days, without having, a course, a cell or a computer, what I did was call the long-distance operator, ask if there was a number for Stanton.
00:02:35
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:02:44
Chris Styles
To my surprise, there was a listed number. I took it.
00:02:48
Lee Hatfield
help.
00:02:48
Chris Styles
I called the number and I was immediately answered by a human answering service. And they told me that it was out of town, but if it was an emergency, they had a contact number.
00:03:00
Chris Styles
And before I could answer the girlfriend hollered that it was, we'll take the number. And I called the number and Stanton and it turned out, never checked, you know, the number of the location or area code. I was phoning Austin, Texas.
00:03:14
Chris Styles
And, He was about to leave a hotel and go to a Mufon symposium to do a presentation.
00:03:21
Megan anderson
Thank
00:03:22
Chris Styles
Flying Saucers Are Real. But he took the time out right there and talked to me for almost half an hour. And I told him my memory.
00:03:29
Lee Hatfield
you.
00:03:31
Chris Styles
I didn't have a date or anything of the
Personal UFO Sighting Experience
00:03:33
Chris Styles
Shag Harbor incident. And when I more or less got through my my story, he said, Chris, I think you're in luck. You sound like the sound kind of guy that might pursue this.
00:03:44
Chris Styles
And he says, that should be easier than what I did at Roswell. And he gave me some very simple pointers. And I said, why is that? And he said, fishermen don't move.
00:03:55
Chris Styles
you know, the real basic investigative things.
00:03:56
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:03:58
Chris Styles
and he gave me a number of pointers like that and said, i have some friends that might remember the case. He didn't remember it. Never heard, but Stan Freeman, you know, crashing arrows had never heard of Shag Harbor.
00:04:10
Chris Styles
That's how it had slipped into what I call the dustbin of history. So anyway, I did all the things he he told me. He sent me an application to the Fund for UFO Research.
00:04:22
Chris Styles
Things happened quickly. i was on my way to Ottawa for two weeks, found a bunch of paperwork, and I was out of the blocks. And that was how, and it just kept building momentum from there.
00:04:34
Lee Hatfield
So would you say that you are one of the top specialists in Canada with regard to UFOs?
00:04:45
Chris Styles
I'm perhaps one of the most successful in terms of getting, you know, the paper trail out, you know, and interviewing, getting people to talk to me face-to-face.
00:04:52
Megan anderson
Thank
00:04:56
Chris Styles
I had a background in market research, and I used to do a lot of major clients for some of the big companies here in terms of, and I think that was a good sort of, you know,
00:05:08
Chris Styles
you know, preparation for what I did. Because the next thing you know, I was able to talk and sit down to people like top Canadian admirals, the the former head of Canada's air desk, you know, squadron leader William Bain in Ottawa, and where other people had failed to engage with them, right?
00:05:21
Megan anderson
Thank
00:05:25
Lee Hatfield
Thank
00:05:26
Chris Styles
I had a lot of face to, you know, COs of bases, defense ministers, you know, I seem to be very lucky and, you know, get them to open up to me.
00:05:37
Chris Styles
So between that and the paper trail, I was unearthing on cases like Shag Harbor and not just Shag Harbor. That's what I'm best known for. But there were many satellite cases and things since like in my, you know, in my,
Approach to UFO Investigations
00:05:52
Chris Styles
sort of a blurb, I always say that, you know, I am known for that, but, you know, I also look into classic cases like in current ones too. But the thing is with the classic cases, often you have a great starting point because we have a great thing in Canada here, you know, there's a heritage of RCMP involvement and, you know,
00:06:09
Megan anderson
Right.
00:06:14
Chris Styles
They don't do anything on the force without generating paper, right? You know, you fill the gas tank, you fill out paper.
00:06:18
Megan anderson
right
00:06:20
Chris Styles
And unlike, say, a county sheriff of the state of Maine or something, you don't have this option.
00:06:25
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:06:26
Chris Styles
You can't, you know, when you get a call, I love some of the early reports actually say they start at the top and it says complaint of UFO. You know, when somebody has a landing case or a close encounter complaint, you know, but they come in as a disinterested third party and investigate as seriously as they would if it was a murder, armed robbery, etc., you know, serious car accident.
00:06:49
Megan anderson
right
00:06:50
Chris Styles
And it's a great heritage and a great paper trail that I find I've been able to exploit because I start with that. particularly the early reports are great because before the Privacy Act, they don't blow out phone numbers, addresses, names, right?
00:07:05
Lee Hatfield
Perfect.
00:07:05
Chris Styles
And I often track these people down or the surviving relatives, quite often the people themselves, and sit them down and reinvestigate in depth and ask the questions that weren't asked, you know?
00:07:06
Megan anderson
right
00:07:19
Chris Styles
And it's it's an advantage that I think Canadians have and, you know,
00:07:21
Lee Hatfield
and
00:07:26
Chris Styles
It's helped me.
00:07:28
Lee Hatfield
perfect
00:07:30
Megan anderson
How do you find from when you first started investigating UFOs until now, how do you find the different in like reportings and sightings nowadays?
00:07:40
Chris Styles
well the it's it's it's all too easy now isn't it you know people can go online right and in a sense i i can remember in the beginning i used to find the odd researcher that was you know starting to say things like oh it's too easy or there's too many reports and and i used to say well how strange i didn't understand that but now i do you know
00:07:46
Megan anderson
Yes. Right.
00:08:05
Megan anderson
Right.
00:08:06
Chris Styles
It used to to be a great filter, like before the internet. I don't know for many people now that sounds funny, but I remember before there was an internet, but it wasn't really useful.
00:08:16
Chris Styles
Actually, I remember before the internet too, but, you know, to be fair, I'm 69 now, you know, I remember when there wasn't, on like except within the military.
00:08:17
Megan anderson
right
00:08:25
Lee Hatfield
Are you welcome?
00:08:28
Chris Styles
But yeah, the thing is, You know, in the old days, there was a great filter and a number used to hear all the time in UFO research, which was that perhaps when you get a report like a police report or a military report and you it gave a number and like for like, let me just go to Shag Harbor course, where initially there were seven witnesses that night.
00:08:49
Megan anderson
yeah
00:08:51
Chris Styles
They called the nearby RCMP detachment, variant of passage from different locations. Well, you would take that number and you could safely assume that there were at least 70 witnesses. You would multiply by 10.
00:09:03
Chris Styles
This is before the internet because not everybody would have the gumption or know to pick up that phone and dial the rescue coordination center or the RCMP or, you know, police, right?
00:09:15
Megan anderson
Right.
00:09:16
Chris Styles
Or a nearby military base or even a radio station.
00:09:17
Megan anderson
Right.
00:09:18
Lee Hatfield
I'm completely gone.
00:09:21
Chris Styles
Whereas nowadays you can just click, you know, Google something up
Revisiting Classic UFO Cases
00:09:24
Chris Styles
and file a report.
00:09:26
Chris Styles
You know, you're connected to the world. And, you know, it'll search and and do whatever.
00:09:26
Megan anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:30
Megan anderson
yeah
00:09:32
Chris Styles
So it's hard to say the numbers have less meaning that way. But it's not that they don't have meaning. You know, but it's a lot harder to interpret. In a way, it's almost too easy.
00:09:43
Chris Styles
So everybody will report what they think they've seen. And to go back to another old adage, which I certainly found to be true in my work, is that people are great observers, but they're bad interpreters.
00:09:56
Chris Styles
You know, people see things all the time.
00:09:56
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:09:59
Chris Styles
And you would be surprised, you know, even people who you would think would be good at interpretation.
00:10:05
Chris Styles
I've had many professional and commercial pilots call and report something. And here I am now, wow, using the internet. And while I'm talking to them on a telephone call, I'm opening a program, excuse me, like heavensabove.com.
00:10:05
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:10:21
Chris Styles
And I'm saying,
Shelburne USO Case Breakthrough
00:10:21
Chris Styles
what time was that again? Oh, yes, I wrote it down. I was looking in this direction. I say, well, you saw the ISS pass over. Are you sure? They go, oh, yes, I'm sure, you know.
00:10:33
Chris Styles
And they'll tell me something like, well, it rose, you know, in the southeast and went northwest, and there was no cloud cover they go in.
00:10:43
Chris Styles
I was flying in at, you know, 10,000 feet, and I could see that this thing was going across the sky, and it was bright as could be.
00:10:48
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:10:51
Chris Styles
I could see every star. There was no cloud. And all of a sudden, it very quickly faded out when it got three-quarters of the way across.
00:10:58
Chris Styles
i What did it do? Did it go stealth, or did it burn up, or? I go, it entered the earth's shadow, you know? So, uh, you know, again, you would think, but I mean, so it's not just a question of people that know little to nothing about it, you know?
00:10:58
Lee Hatfield
is
00:11:15
Chris Styles
And often when you look at the classic cases, here's another thing I got to find. And I think sometimes researchers, and you know, in good research is generally run into these limitations. We all have, I've certainly made mistakes, you know,
00:11:30
Chris Styles
It happens. It's just so easy. But when you go back, for example, like say you got a case and it's looking good and you find old media reports and you're reading the newspaper, the two amateur astronomers, you know, observed this for however long.
00:11:45
Chris Styles
You track down and find the two amateur astronomers and you find, in fact, they were just two men with a telescope. Not the same thing.
00:11:55
Chris Styles
Okay, so that's right.
00:11:55
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:11:56
Lee Hatfield
hundred percent
00:11:58
Chris Styles
So you have to sift through that. And, you know, it's one thing to have the data, but often when mistakes are made, they get eternally passed on through media, through books, through, you know, second, third treatment sort of thing.
00:12:11
Chris Styles
So you have to go back, even in classic cases, and question everything. This is something I quickly learned, you know, the pitfalls, right, of the mistakes of others. They accumulate, they snowball.
00:12:23
Lee Hatfield
That's it. And it's it's very easy to misinterpret nowadays because you've got the yeah the SpaceX train once the satellites have been launched.
00:12:32
Chris Styles
Sure.
00:12:34
Lee Hatfield
You've got Chinese lanterns. You've got drones. And people are people are far too quick to say, oh, that's a UFO, where there's a natural explanation for it.
00:12:37
Chris Styles
That's right.
00:12:43
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:12:45
Chris Styles
Yeah. Yeah. and And, you know, here on the coast, I live in what I call the tailpipe of North America, better known as Nova Scotia. And I've seen things myself that for a day, it took me some time to figure out. I'll tell you one real quick, strange little one that it was in the winter. And I remember, i can't remember what year it was. It was about, oh, it would have been in the eighties now.
00:13:13
Chris Styles
And I was coming in the Lawrence town road here along the coast. And I got up in a big hill and I looked out to see, and I could see the horizon. And it was coming into dust, right? There was still, you know, diffuse light on the horizon.
00:13:25
Lee Hatfield
Why did I do that?
00:13:26
Chris Styles
You could see things quite plain, but it was getting dark, you know, it was near sunset.
00:13:29
Lee Hatfield
Where? Friday? You're not good.
00:13:31
Chris Styles
And I'm looking east, so the sun's not my eyes. And I see a horizon, but then I see a second horizon above it. And I could clearly tell, you know, and I watch things all the time and living on the coast here, you know, a fog bank.
00:13:43
Chris Styles
you know, a cloud bank, you know, you know, I've even watched a total eclipses here over the years and that, you know,
00:13:44
Megan anderson
Thank
Publicizing UFO Evidence
00:13:50
Chris Styles
but it was really striking.
00:13:51
Chris Styles
And when you stood on that hill alone and I looked at it, was almost disorienting. You know, the brain didn't want to accept what you were seeing, but here here were two perfectly straight horizons, right?
00:14:02
Chris Styles
One about the other. Well, I thought, you know, could be some kind of a,
00:14:08
Chris Styles
You know, trick of light or whatever, but, you know, it puzzled me. got in the car, I drove away and I had no idea what it was and was trying to think the next day, get up and was trying to figure now, how will I figure out what that was?
00:14:15
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:14:19
Chris Styles
they like what What are the possibilities? And grabbed some books. But when I opened my living room window that also provided a view of the ocean and I looked out,
00:14:28
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:14:28
Chris Styles
like the harbor, something I'd never seen and nobody, even people that were in their eighties and nineties and it's saying the Halifax Harbor was filled with pack ice. We'd never had it here.
00:14:40
Chris Styles
You know, we're the Northern most ice free port. And it was a freak of wind pattern that blew it down from Iceberg Alley. And it blocked us in for about three days. The Coast Guard kept running in and over the harbor in case a naval ship had to be dispatched on a mission.
00:14:51
Lee Hatfield
but
00:14:56
Chris Styles
I'd never seen it. You know but in the distance, it just looked like two lines, right? A true anomaly, but quite natural, right?
00:15:01
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:15:04
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. So, so Chris, so obviously in this day and age, everybody knows how vast the universe is. And this may sound a really strange question, but Why do you think that these UFO cases, obviously we don't, we don't get reports from other planets.
00:15:24
Lee Hatfield
So that's kind of a little bit of a, like a unknown entity there.
00:15:28
Chris Styles
Oh, we have one from one.
00:15:32
Chris Styles
We do. Yeah.
00:15:32
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:15:33
Chris Styles
I mean, and NASA acknowledges that. Back, it was the one of the first what were the pair, not an opportunity, the other one, Spirit, right?
00:15:33
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:15:44
Chris Styles
On Mars. it It captured a shot of the atmosphere and there's something streaking across and they don't believe it was a meteor whatever.
00:15:45
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:15:56
Chris Styles
And at the time, there were only 10 man-made objects ordering orbiting Mars, you know, various surveyors and, you know, rocket boosters or whatever, right?
00:16:07
Chris Styles
and right on the nasa website you know in this shot you see it it says first ufo picture from another world and they could not account for it and they were quite clear that there were only 10 objects and you know the orbits were not would not account for any of these and that is how and that's why i say that so there's the case there was a shot taken by spirit and according to nassau they said they don't know what it is and couldn't figure it out and they called it a ufo
00:16:16
Lee Hatfield
Oh, wow.
00:16:39
Lee Hatfield
That's cool.
00:16:40
Megan anderson
That is.
00:16:41
Chris Styles
hmm but but yeah no no go right ahead i love the questions
00:16:43
Lee Hatfield
Go, Megan.
00:16:44
Megan anderson
So do you think that, oh sorry, go go on.
00:16:45
Lee Hatfield
so Sorry. Sorry. Carry on, Chris.
00:16:50
Megan anderson
Do you think that UFOs and aliens are frequently coming to Earth and coming and going, or do you think they've already settled on Earth, I should say?
00:16:51
Lee Hatfield
us
00:17:01
Chris Styles
that's the big kind of question you know that used to really engage me and puzzle me and drive me and it no longer does
00:17:11
Megan anderson
Okay.
00:17:11
Chris Styles
because
00:17:16
Chris Styles
it's all interesting when you think about it, either possibility. You know, look, if you just answer, and and I'm not ducking this at all, I'm going to come back to it more specifically.
00:17:24
Megan anderson
No.
00:17:26
Chris Styles
But if you ask the biggest and simplest of questions like, are we alone? There's two answers, isn't there?
00:17:33
Megan anderson
yeah
00:17:33
Chris Styles
And both of them are diametrically opposed, couldn't be further apart. One is we are alone. and the other is no we aren't and both of these are daunting they are just the implications run deep either way it's just as deep if we're alone you know what a waste you know human behavior and all the budgets on earth that are spent toward defending invisible borders that have little to no meaning other than to cause hardship and death and destruction uh terrible
00:17:45
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:18:07
Chris Styles
way And of course, if we are alone, if we are not alone, where do we fit into the picture? you know and And are they here? And I certainly think that that's possible. And it's easy to think it's likely.
00:18:22
Chris Styles
I've been lucky enough to have two significant personal sightings in life. and And even that number is significant. you know Most people I talk to that had a great sighting or an experience, right?
00:18:34
Chris Styles
When you meet them. One of the questions I always ask is, do you think you'll be lucky enough? Do you think it'll happen again? And most of them say, no, I don't think so. I don't feel that lucky. Well, I was one of those. And I was lucky enough on September the 15th, 2018, to be on Cape Sable Island here in Nova Scotia.
Vivid UFO Sightings and Belief
00:18:52
Chris Styles
And in the daytime, I started receiving numerous calls. It began, I was in Yarmouth, about half hour drive away. And I got to the area and the numerous calls were telling me that there was a UFO over the island moving around.
00:19:07
Chris Styles
Now this is three o'clock in the afternoon, not a cloud in the sky. The last great sunny summery day that year we had in 2018, right? So I make my way as quick as I could to the area.
00:19:17
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:19:21
Chris Styles
And when I get there, the objects still there moving around and what i'm seeing is basically what we think of now as one of the go fast things that have been reported from the deck of the carrier the theodore roosevelt there and what was it 2014.
00:19:36
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:19:37
Chris Styles
and we had pictures and video taken we have a sphere with a cube inside and i got there for the last seven minutes of it and twice while
00:19:42
Megan anderson
yeah
00:19:48
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:19:49
Chris Styles
making the observation it disappeared and reappeared and would come closer to us. And I was lucky enough. I had a good pair of Steiner focus re binoculars with me. And on the last appearance, I had them right on and could look into this thing.
00:20:03
Chris Styles
And this was clearly, you know, not, uh, be a long list of what it wasn't. It was certainly not any kind of a drone or, you know, it was just,
00:20:15
Chris Styles
It was staggering. And we had about 60 people on the beach watching this on a bright sunny day with without a cloud in the sky. And every, and when it would reappear the whole crowd, we'd all hear people go, Oh, you know, when it would reappear, it was very dramatic.
00:20:22
Megan anderson
Hmm. Hmm.
00:20:30
Chris Styles
They got a lot of press coverage here at the time. And I'll tell you, you know, it's the oldest cliche in the book, Zian's believing. But if you had any doubts at that time, you know, they would have been all washed away if you've had you been there, right?
00:20:45
Chris Styles
And the interesting thing is it that seven minutes, and by the way, the total elapse of the sighting was an hour and 20 minutes. I got there for the last seven minutes and it ended.
00:20:57
Megan anderson
Wow. Wow.
00:20:57
Chris Styles
And in that last seven minutes, it was very dramatic. And I got to the point where I started observing the people around me, the various reactions. And it ran the full gambit and watching it. You know, you need two things for a UFO experience.
00:21:12
Chris Styles
You need a UFO. You need a witness.
00:21:14
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:21:15
Chris Styles
And when I looked around, it really, it was just as interesting to watch the people and the reactions. Some people shrugged and walked away. Others were terrified, dropped their belongings on the beach and ran for their car.
00:21:30
Chris Styles
Others became like almost oxygen drunk, hyperventilating and were excited and euphoric.
00:21:32
Megan anderson
Right. Right.
00:21:38
Chris Styles
You know, it was it was very dramatic what was going on around me. I was so lucky to be there and take this in, right? And some people,
00:21:45
Megan anderson
right
00:21:48
Chris Styles
When I did follow up on this, like we're unable to go back to work for a few days and, you know, you can see strong psychological impact. I wrote it up and reported it to MUCON and other UFO groups.
00:22:01
Chris Styles
And like to say, it received some press down here and attention. But the trouble is nowadays, you know, there's so much stuff on the Internet and, you know, some would say, well, there's so much better videos and pictures than what you guys talk.
00:22:14
Chris Styles
Well, and by the way, when this thing got in close proximity, all that stuff went down.
00:22:16
Megan anderson
Thank
00:22:20
Chris Styles
Like there was an EM effect, right? You know, we do have some pretty fair video of it and that, but when it went down, you know, that was it, right?
00:22:25
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:22:27
Chris Styles
When it got close. And ironically that year, that summer I had filmed a documentary, uh,
Evaluating Witness Credibility
00:22:37
Chris Styles
nearby on the southwestern shore with the Cousteau grandchildren there, Celine and Fabian, right?
00:22:45
Chris Styles
And one day when I wasn't needed on the shoot, somebody called to report a UFO to me and they told me the same kind of thing and took me to the same spot on a rainy day that day and told me, and this is someone who actually left her job in the community because of the trauma of the sighting.
00:22:56
Megan anderson
Wow. Wow. Wow.
00:23:02
Chris Styles
She was all alone on the beach at the time on an early summery day. And as this thing come close to her, she felt paralysis and that was it. She was done with Cape Sable Island and Southwestern Nova, you know.
00:23:15
Megan anderson
wow
00:23:15
Lee Hatfield
wow
00:23:18
Chris Styles
So, but, but to catch it myself, you know, it really recharged my batteries too, you know, and you know, I could tell you so many academic type reasons and things in my research compelling reports.
00:23:25
Megan anderson
Thank
00:23:31
Chris Styles
you know, people of high stature, politicians and defense ministers and people like that telling me their story. But, you know, there again, the old cliche scene is believing. And with the knowledge I've gained through the years, reinvestigating cases, being up close and, you know, try and keep in control, like to say, between watching the reaction on people, you know, the MFX and what I was seeing, you know, with the binoculars I had and, you know,
00:24:00
Chris Styles
It just, it's, you know, and I almost want to say it made me young again, you know, but it sparked me, that's for sure.
00:24:08
Lee Hatfield
For sure. Yeah.
00:24:10
Chris Styles
And I needed that at that point, you know?
00:24:12
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:24:12
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:24:13
Chris Styles
Yeah.
00:24:13
Megan anderson
When you receive UFO and alien USO activity, how do you approach the reports when you get them?
00:24:24
Chris Styles
Well, you mean current reports or cold cases or
00:24:27
Megan anderson
Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, any report will case any when you get them, like when someone reports it to you, how do you go about it?
00:24:35
Chris Styles
Well, the first thing I do is is try to determine, well, I take two things. First thing I try to figure out how many of the people are accessible or around, right? How much follow up can I do, right?
00:24:49
Chris Styles
Because there's nothing like pressing the flesh and doing a face to face interview. You know, if you can't do that, you do it by telephone or Zoom or whatever, right?
00:24:49
Megan anderson
Yep.
00:24:55
Megan anderson
Right.
00:24:59
Chris Styles
If you can't do that, then you do an email.
00:24:59
Megan anderson
Right.
00:25:02
Chris Styles
But the more up close and personal it is, the better. And I can give you you know just a really great example, like I don't know how our time is, but there's a case that taught me this lesson better than anything.
00:25:17
Chris Styles
In Lower Sackville, Nova Scotia, happened in the 1970s. By the time it got in my hands, I found it in Stanton Friedman's basement, by the way. he needed never had time to look into it. And when I started looking into it, it turned out to be the case.
00:25:32
Chris Styles
It's actually my favorite UFO case that I ever investigated. And few people know of it.
00:25:36
Megan anderson
Okay.
00:25:37
Chris Styles
I mentioned it in my last book there, Impact, I'm sorry, my last, the latest book, which is Sweep Clear Five about the Shelburne USO incident, right?
00:25:48
Chris Styles
But when I see this, but but what happened in this case was I read it and it's kind of a one-page report where the Mounties get a call from a woman, Mrs. Percy Webster, she's named in the report, so I'll use her name, it's all public.
00:26:02
Chris Styles
And she said, could you send someone to my house? There's a UFO over my house, a Mountie, a Constable Ferrandez, dispatched to it. He knocks on the door. And he opens and he goes, yes, we'd like to come up in the lawn with me. He goes, actually, there's three UFOs over your house.
00:26:18
Chris Styles
And they step out. The RCMP officer stays for two hours. They're saying a three-section kind of tic-tac-shaped craft.
00:26:27
Chris Styles
And the middle section is like a tea strainer. And you can see into it. There's green lights moving around. No so sound. After two hours and drinking coffee with her, he says, I got to leave on other duties.
00:26:27
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:26:40
Chris Styles
He said, if you feel threatened or gets closer, call us, we'll come back. So it's still there over the host, the three of them. The officer estimates them to be 500 feet above. Again, no noise.
00:26:50
Chris Styles
While he was here, he called the nearby radar tower at Halifax International, as it was known then in the Sherwater base, the Naval Aviation Station there.
00:26:59
Megan anderson
Thank
00:27:01
Chris Styles
And they were painting nothing on radar. He writes his little one-page report, which is what I have in my hand. And at the end, he mentions there's two neighbors, Mr. and Mrs. Robert Bedford next door, who also witnessed the event.
00:27:14
Chris Styles
So one day, i had the report with me. I knock on Mrs. Webster's door in Lower Sackville. She opens up, and I tell her who I am. Oh, she said, I'd love to talk to you. She tells me the story without embellishments, pretty much as it was in the report.
00:27:28
Chris Styles
I asked her, have we ever seen anything since?
00:27:29
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:27:30
Chris Styles
No, we often thought we did. But no, I don't think I'll be that lucky, that expression. So anyway, I said, do your neighbors still live next door to the Bedford's? And she says, oh, yeah, but I think they're away right now. And she said, it would do no good to talk to them. Why? She said, oh, they belong to some kind of Christian cult, and they wouldn't say what they've seen that way. And I said, well, I think I'll give it a try. I said, I like to be complete.
00:27:58
Chris Styles
She said, think they're away. They usually go for the summer. I knocked on the door and got no answer. So when I went home, I kept calling the number.
00:28:03
Megan anderson
Thank
00:28:04
Chris Styles
And three weeks later, Mr. Bedford, Robert Bedford, answered the phone. And I told him who I was and what I was looking for. And he says, well, I'll stop you right there. And i said, yeah, why?
00:28:15
Chris Styles
And he said, because I've never seen UFO or anything like that. Well, said, well, your name's in an RCMP report. How would it get there? And he said, fella, when did you say this was? And I said, well, it was, so you know, October, you know, 1976. And he's like, I don't think we lived here then. I think we were still in Ontario.
00:28:40
Chris Styles
So I hear him holler for his wife and she comes out.
00:28:41
Megan anderson
Thank
00:28:44
Chris Styles
He's on an old landline in the hallway, right? A wall phone, as I will discover later on follow-up. And he's saying, dear, and she goes, who is it? What is it? He goes, oh, the Webster saw a UFO or something. He goes, when did we come down from Ontario? She said, oh, you know, in the summer of 76. Well, he says, yeah, I guess we were there. Oh, oh, he goes. And he he suddenly, like something dawns on him and he covers the phone. I can hear all this muffled talk.
00:29:10
Chris Styles
He comes back on and he says, yes, I know what you're talking about now. I'm sorry.
00:29:15
Chris Styles
And I shouldn't have said that about her neighbors. But he says, understand this. We don't get along. I didn't tell him I've been warned by Mrs.
00:29:15
Megan anderson
Thank
00:29:21
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:29:22
Chris Styles
Webster. Now this is all connected real soon here, as you'll see the significance. I said, yes. I said, so you did see a UFO? He says, no, I did not. Well, I said, you're going to have to explain that. He says, I'll be honest with you. He says, I really did forget. He says, I've been trying to forget since this happened.
00:29:41
Chris Styles
But he says, and I'm not very proud of it, but the wife and I were upstairs hiding under the bed when this happened.
00:29:47
Lee Hatfield
wow
00:29:48
Chris Styles
And I said, hiding.
00:29:48
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:29:49
Megan anderson
Right.
Investigative Philosophy in UFO Research
00:29:49
Chris Styles
under the bed, i said, from what? I don't know, he says, but it was low over the house. It was so loud and the host was shaken like an earthquake. Now next door, remember these people are on the lawn, they hear nothing.
00:30:05
Chris Styles
The RCP officers watch it. He radioed other cars in the distance that watched it from distant places on hills and drove by. Think about this, right? Pretty crazy, I'm saying shaken.
00:30:17
Chris Styles
I said, yeah, go on.
00:30:18
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:30:18
Chris Styles
And he said, well, it just went on and on and on. He says, I thought we were going to die. And he says... Let me tell you, he said, I'm a naval architect for the Canadian Navy. I designed the buildings at the Shelburne base and he's going on.
00:30:32
Chris Styles
He said, I fly in Sea Kings and Labradors all the time, but I don't know what it was. I knew it wasn't from here and it was close and we were terrified. And I was just so glad that it ended. And I said, and how did it end? He goes, that's a crazy thing.
00:30:46
Chris Styles
It went on and on and on. He said, and then there was just like somebody flipped a switch and it stopped. He goes, and that's when I heard somebody knocking at the door. And I go down and it was the RCMP officer.
00:30:58
Chris Styles
He wanted me to step out. He said, I looked past him and I could see the Webster's on the lawn so I wouldn't come out. So he said, no, I did not see anything. But that's how I remember it.
00:31:10
Chris Styles
So I ask you, what was that?
00:31:10
Lee Hatfield
Wow. Exactly.
00:31:11
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:31:13
Chris Styles
Now, if I had just been communicating by email, i would this case would not have opened up, right?
00:31:13
Lee Hatfield
exactly
00:31:13
Megan anderson
yeah
00:31:21
Megan anderson
Right.
00:31:21
Chris Styles
i would not have heard the wife trying to say no dear we're you know that was the night that you see what i'm saying better still face to face so i went over after that and did follow up there's the one of the biggest lessons i ever learned in investigation the more intimate the more personal by far you're better off right so when a case comes i try to get as close as i can i try to find the other the two big things i do that's one the second thing is this i try to find out
00:31:22
Megan anderson
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:31:40
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
00:31:40
Megan anderson
yeah
00:31:50
Chris Styles
What else that you wouldn't think of that would back this up? Like if something happened at the coast, is there a life ah is there lighthouse record?
00:32:00
Chris Styles
Are there ships that pass by? You know, would there be log book entries, right?
00:32:05
Megan anderson
right
00:32:06
Chris Styles
Residents that lived here at the time, I've gone around and knocked on doors. Here's a real quick example, quicker than the other one, of what that tells you. I
Challenges and Skepticism in UFO Research
00:32:16
Chris Styles
tried to follow a cold case
00:32:16
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:32:19
Chris Styles
about these close encounters of orange orbs on the beach that were paralyzing people and interacting with them and children in that area of Nova Scotia.
00:32:29
Lee Hatfield
Thank
00:32:29
Chris Styles
i knocked on doors trying to do a general survey of people that were living there at the time. One of the first places I knocked at a woman opened the door and has a baby in her arms. He was crying and she's like I tried to explain to her who I am and what I'm doing.
00:32:44
Chris Styles
And she says, oh, God, it's all you hear down there is UFOs.
00:32:45
Megan anderson
right. right.
00:32:47
Chris Styles
And then she says I'm sick to death of hearing about them. She goes, I've never seen a UFO, and I don't know why people get all worked up about this. She says, I just know what my mother always taught me is when the orange balls are on the beach and you see them, you don't go near them.
00:33:00
Chris Styles
Have a good day. Wish all the best. Goodbye. It was actually that area. It was so common, you know, that it was part of, you know, general safety for kids that you told.
00:33:12
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:33:13
Chris Styles
Yeah. I mean.
00:33:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. so
00:33:15
Chris Styles
This is not what you see like on TV or on the X-Files or the many specials you see. But when you get out of the armchair and you engage with the people, this has been the experience I've had.
00:33:26
Chris Styles
And, you know, those are the moments you get that tingle on your neck when they're telling you this stuff or more than that when you see it yourself.
00:33:31
Megan anderson
Right. Yep. yeah
00:33:32
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:33:35
Chris Styles
and And, you know, you think about it. Yes, I saw something when I was 12 the night of the Shag Harbor incident, right? And think about that, 29 years of reinvestigating, I finally find that the Shelburne story is a separate case from 1960 and my father was on the mission.
00:33:53
Chris Styles
He took it to the grave. And, you know, one thing connects to another.
00:33:55
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:33:57
Chris Styles
So follow up is everything. And like you say, you know, those are the two big things.
00:34:00
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:34:02
Chris Styles
Find all the sources you can, get as intimate, as personal as you can and leave no stone unturned.
00:34:07
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:34:11
Lee Hatfield
That's perfect. So we've already kind of spoken about misidentification, weather phenomena, whatever.
00:34:19
Chris Styles
Sure.
00:34:19
Lee Hatfield
But how how do you respond to sceptics who argue that there's always a rational explanation for these sightings?
00:34:27
Chris Styles
There isn't. Obviously, these are people that haven't investigated UFOs.
00:34:32
Lee Hatfield
Oh, for sure.
00:34:33
Chris Styles
There is not, obviously, a rational explanation.
00:34:33
Megan anderson
Bye. Bye.
00:34:36
Chris Styles
And they will usually readily admit that, right? But, I mean, I've had cases in the past, particularly with astronomers. There are exceptions. I must admit that when I do presentations, I've often had, at the end, astronomers, you know, who would know the name, come up after me and congratulate me and say they find what I do interesting.
00:34:56
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:35:00
Chris Styles
And they say, you honor the scientific method. And I try to, and I do that, but, you know, you have to go beyond that, too. You know, and, you know, we live in a time when science tries to keep itself pure and it's separate from all these other outlooks, right?
00:35:19
Chris Styles
But I'm
Historical Context in UFO Discoveries
00:35:19
Chris Styles
sorry, Isaac Newton was an alchemist. You know what I mean? Like, like, Sir Charles Darwin was a clergy. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and people were much more complicated uh much more accepting back than that you could have wear are these different hats right and in trying to keep it so pure and that but i mean if you go and investigate the ufos what you understand what you can discern and uh account for through science well is going to very soon be challenged right listen most cases are misidentification
00:35:39
Megan anderson
Okay.
00:35:46
Lee Hatfield
Thank
00:35:57
Chris Styles
natural phenomena probably accounts for the lion's share that's rare conditions and poorly understood. but if you get out there, it's like the case I described, you know, in Lower Sackville there from the 70s. I call it the Webster case.
00:36:10
Chris Styles
I mean, come on. You know, nobody knew I was going to knock on the door. These people didn't get along. You want to talk about pure? That case is pure, open, and unsolved, right?
00:36:18
Megan anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:22
Chris Styles
And science will not solve that, right?
00:36:23
Megan anderson
Right.
00:36:25
Chris Styles
That's that's how I look at it. Yes, you have to account for science. You have to use that approach. And I would suggest that if you, you know, once you get out in the field to do the work and meet these people and see something to yourself, if you should be so lucky and really go through the record, you're going to find that you have to go beyond science.
00:36:45
Chris Styles
But no, you can't leave it behind.
00:36:46
Lee Hatfield
Good job. 100%.
00:36:47
Chris Styles
You have to account for it. Right.
00:36:50
Chris Styles
Yes.
00:36:50
Megan anderson
right
00:36:50
Lee Hatfield
hundred percent 100%. Okay.
00:36:51
Chris Styles
That's that's my that's my view. Yeah.
00:36:54
Lee Hatfield
okay
00:36:55
Megan anderson
Are there any recurring patterns of behavior of UFOs that get reported to you?
00:36:59
Lee Hatfield
you
00:37:03
Chris Styles
Yes, and I find that, you know, i bumped into a lot of patterns that are not reported, strangely enough, right?
00:37:12
Megan anderson
Okay.
00:37:13
Chris Styles
For example, one thing, i one expression I often encounter is when people just try to describe the light given by a UFO, particularly if it's something like an orb, and it's small and they're close, but it could be a large craft, as they'll say.
00:37:14
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:37:26
Megan anderson
Right.
00:37:29
Chris Styles
It gave off a really bright light. but it didn't light anything.
00:37:34
Lee Hatfield
Thank
00:37:35
Chris Styles
It didn't illuminate anything, you know, and they struggled to describe the quality of the light.
00:37:38
Megan anderson
on
00:37:41
Chris Styles
They go, it was a really bright light, but it, it, it didn't, it didn't help. It didn't give any light, you know, like I hear that all the time. Right.
00:37:51
Chris Styles
Yeah. And, and then you'll, you know, orange orbs are certainly a big thing, white, you know, or, you know, I mean, you see things like that, but often to describe some of the features, right, which is one of the reasons why sometimes, too, you have to avoid language.
00:38:02
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:38:08
Chris Styles
I mean, when, you know, it's good to take one of those graphs where you have all the colors that are possible and shades in it, and when I ask them what color is, I get them to point that out rather than just rely on, oh it was sort of a moldy purple, right?
00:38:22
Megan anderson
oh
00:38:23
Lee Hatfield
That makes sense, yeah.
00:38:24
Chris Styles
Little things, yeah, you know, and some of these practical things can happen quite a bit because my yellowish orange might be your orangish red or something, you know, like, yeah, yeah.
00:38:24
Megan anderson
yeah
00:38:34
Megan anderson
Yes, yes, it's true.
00:38:36
Chris Styles
So, you know, little things like that, some things you can't correct that way easily. But, you know, it's all a challenge, yeah.
00:38:46
Lee Hatfield
OK.
00:38:47
Megan anderson
What are your thoughts on like USOs and the water underwater base for
00:38:48
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:38:55
Chris Styles
Well, I mean, my biggest case so far is the Shelburne USO case from October 1960. And I've only known that that was the date since 2022.
00:39:03
Megan anderson
Right.
00:39:07
Chris Styles
And it was almost 2023. But on the during the holidays, I finally made the breakthrough. I've been looking for 29 years to make sense of that case.
00:39:17
Lee Hatfield
Remember now.
00:39:17
Chris Styles
And most people thought it was actually part of Shag Harbor and the ending of it, something I never quite accepted and kept searching. Right.
00:39:26
Megan anderson
right
00:39:26
Chris Styles
And like to say, just a few years ago, I finally got to the bottom of it and found that in 1960, at Shelburne Harbor, there was a NATO mission but eighteen with uh, yeah, 18 warships.
Shelburne USO Mission Details
00:39:42
Chris Styles
yeah eighteen warships 10 U S eight Canadian plus a name, uh, Canadian diving platform. and I can name all the ships and, uh, the ship's log for the command ship, which was HMC as Cape Scott, which my father was a medic on the ship at the time.
00:40:01
Chris Styles
He never told me the story kept it from me. And, uh, what I discovered was in this case that, uh, these men went down. and found two USOs sitting on the bottom at the Multishelburn Harbor out beyond McNutt Island.
00:40:18
Chris Styles
And they were doing a mine-sweeping training mission, and they went down for some strange sonar returns and to check it out. They were in only 40, well, six fathoms of water, just over 40 feet.
00:40:33
Chris Styles
And they claimed that there were two USOs sitting there with live aliens in the water and that they filmed them.
00:40:41
Chris Styles
and this was turned over the Defense Research Board on Grove Street in Dartmouth.
00:40:42
Megan anderson
That's so cool. Yeah.
00:40:46
Megan anderson
yeah
00:40:47
Chris Styles
And that, you know, i've been I've been hearing this story from various sources for 99 years, but it was then that I found the name of the mission, the ships that were involved. and you know, the book I wrote, Sweep Clear Five, which is named from the name of this mission,
00:41:05
Chris Styles
it's a very complex case. And, you know, the first Full half of the book is just all the things I did that failed and and how hard it was to track this down.
00:41:13
Megan anderson
Right.
00:41:16
Chris Styles
Because unlike Shag Harbor, i mean, these cases are very different. They involve water. One is a purported crash of a USO offshore that had multiple witnesses, RCMP and Canadian divers involved.
00:41:21
Megan anderson
right
00:41:29
Chris Styles
It was a headline story back in its day across North America, right? including the Chronicle Herald, which was the first to run the headline, and that was Canada's most conservative broadsheet. You usually don't see UFO, USO stories on the cover.
00:41:44
Megan anderson
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:44
Chris Styles
But as I talked to the men over the years in the reinvestigation, this Shelburne story kept going, and whereas everybody would talk openly about the Shag Harbor, when you touched on the Shelburne case, they quickly became fearful or slammed the door in your face and said, man, we can't talk about that one, you know.
00:42:04
Chris Styles
But I heard all the stories. I interviewed the divers and some of the Air Force personnel involved and others. But, you know, you could not, none would divulge the name of a ship or, you know, the date or whatever.
00:42:04
Megan anderson
yeah
00:42:18
Chris Styles
And it took me 29 years to get to the bottom of it.
00:42:20
Megan anderson
Right.
00:42:21
Chris Styles
So sit through Canadian Naval Records and find it.
00:42:21
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:42:24
Chris Styles
And to be honest, it started with a single sentence in an article on Wikipedia that I'd missed. Here's another good point. investigation lesson for your audience or wannabe researchers or the real ones for that matter.
00:42:38
Chris Styles
Always remember that wikis change and update on the internet, unlike a book, right?
00:42:43
Megan anderson
right
00:42:44
Chris Styles
They update. And when I looked up, I had this dream. and And, you know, over the holidays, I described this in great detail in the book of when I was five years old.
00:42:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:42:59
Chris Styles
And it was just a recounting of a real event. And I remember hiding under a table, listen to sending them my dad's and able friends talk about this. But you know, you're five, right?
00:43:10
Chris Styles
It's all kind of soft, not fully understood, but it was there.
00:43:12
Megan anderson
Right. All right.
00:43:13
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:43:17
Chris Styles
And when I woke up, I thought, stupid dream, you know, and I didn't put any credence in it or the showburn story. And I'd probably had variations of that over the years since.
00:43:28
Chris Styles
Now, remember, when I'm 69 now. When I'm hearing this, I was five, right? But but what I did wonder about, because I'm meticulous about naval history and understanding it, is I thought, my God, what was Dad's boat at the time?
00:43:44
Chris Styles
What was the category? I knew it was a supply ship, but it was more than that. It was some kind of floating naval command center, and it was, you know, Canada still had a 60-ship navy. I know it had other function, and it was a large ship.
00:43:57
Chris Styles
So I went to Wikipedia and just flipped the laptop open, put in HMC as Cape Scott, and it comes up and I'm reading about it. And at the end of the paragraph where it talks about the service history of the ship, there's one sentence that says, in 1960, HMC as Cape Scott took part in a NATO military exercise in Shelburne Harbor known as Sweep Clear Five.
00:44:10
Megan anderson
Thank
00:44:24
Chris Styles
That's all it said. But as soon as I saw that, I knew. and the reason I knew is because I'd spent years going through naval records and not once could I find the, I went through the whole Navy and I went back as far as 61. Yes, I stopped at 61 because I didn't think it could be earlier.
00:44:45
Chris Styles
you other researchers had had helped me with this, you know, for sure over the years from Don Leger to Graham Sims to whoever. And I got back that far and,
00:44:56
Chris Styles
I saw this and I knew right away because in all those years, I'd never found a ship's log, put a Canadian naval ship in Shelburne Harbor. So now here, just in the single sense, I'm hearing there's a NATO mission with 18 ships and shout I say, oh my God, that's it.
00:45:11
Chris Styles
So where do you go from there? And ironically, this is during the time of COVID and between the holidays, everything's closed, right? But a few days later, there was an old secondhand bookstore in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia here that was open. I went there.
00:45:25
Chris Styles
I went to roll copies of the Crow's Nest, right? That was a Canadian Naval magazine. And I figured, you know, in those days, take a month or two to get And I kept going back and I found a copy from December, 1960. The cover of it had the bounty on it, HMS Bounty, from the movie made with Marilyn Brando and whatever, they built a replica ship in Lunenburg.
00:45:51
Chris Styles
And when I open up and I go through the book, I find this article and it names all the ships in Sweet Player Five and what the mission was. And yeah,
Future Plans for Shelburne USO Investigation
00:46:01
Lee Hatfield
wow
00:46:01
Chris Styles
in this Naval magazine, no mention of USOs or aliens, right?
00:46:06
Chris Styles
It basically said, and a good time was had by all we love working with our American friends on these missions and blah, blah, blah. You know, the shtick, you know, the typical. However, when I went back to Wikipedia and looked up the service history of some of the American ships involved, like USS Yazoo.
00:46:26
Chris Styles
Well, it wasn't quite the same story there. First thing I read is that the command ship on this mission ran into into trouble. Engine failure was going to run aground and Shelburne Harbor had to be rescued.
00:46:37
Megan anderson
Thank
00:46:37
Chris Styles
They were ordered out of the harbor immediately, you know, and, you know, totally at odds with this Canadian article, the U.S. coverage.
00:46:48
Chris Styles
When I looked at ships that were listed, they weren't all listed, but USS Yazoo.
00:46:53
Chris Styles
which rescue Cape Scott and, you know, another ship that was in trouble trouble that had suffered material damage and casualty. And then you had, you know, yeah, quite a discrepancy.
00:46:53
Lee Hatfield
you
00:47:06
Chris Styles
Same with USS Orleans Parish, you know, a big ship, you know. So anyway,
00:47:10
Megan anderson
Thank
00:47:11
Chris Styles
mike Then I began the process through COVID and that was hard dealing with the government department. Normally but within 30 days, you can get a ship's log or whatever. And I request the log from the timeframe. It took seven months to get it.
00:47:25
Chris Styles
And when I get it and start sifting through it and going through all the naval jargon and entries of a ship that's commanding 18 ships, and we were in command because we were in Canadian waters, right?
00:47:27
Lee Hatfield
I don't even how to treat.
00:47:36
Chris Styles
Well, I get to the time where I can remember the divers when they told me the story saying, look, when we were just starting to to sail through the sweat passage, they'd laid a field of dummy mines eight miles long at the entrance of Shelburne Harbor, and they had to get the
00:47:37
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:47:57
Chris Styles
The mission would be a success if they got the Cape Scott and the Orleans Parish, the two biggest ships, to sail through them and not get hit by a dummy mine that would record it would have exploded.
00:48:09
Chris Styles
He said, we only got an hour in the mission. and And the way the divers kept telling me, all hell broke loose.
00:48:15
Megan anderson
Thank
00:48:15
Chris Styles
You know, we went down. They didn't believe us when they told us on the surface what we're seeing. So we started to film it, you know. And i I knew the men and the names of the men. I remember them coming to the house and visiting my dad because he used to dive with them.
00:48:29
Chris Styles
But he wasn't a diver by trade. He was a medic. Anyway, so I get back to the point where the mission's all set up, the ships are getting ready, and I wait for them to start entering the passage. so I figure this must be the day they're talking about when the encounter occurs.
00:48:46
Chris Styles
And I can remember these guys saying, now when they're telling me the story,
00:48:50
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm.
00:48:50
Chris Styles
by the way, and that was back in 1994. It's already 33 years old. It's now over 60 years old. But I remember quite well I took notes, right? And, you know, I see that, look, an hour in, they say all hell breaks loose.
00:49:05
Chris Styles
But their memory is three.
00:49:05
Lee Hatfield
where
00:49:06
Chris Styles
So I went 60 minutes in. I'm looking at all the log entries. Nothing. So I keep going. I'm starting to get a little disappointed. I get to around 90 minutes into the mission, and And I see something.
00:49:18
Chris Styles
I must have read it 20 times before. I'm thinking, checking with a magnifying glass, but no, the log entry is clear. It's not smeared or whatever. And I see something supposedly has never happened in history.
00:49:34
Chris Styles
They declare DEFCON 1. 1.
00:49:37
Lee Hatfield
Wow.
00:49:38
Chris Styles
what Yeah. Now, if you go back to Wikipedia or something more scholarly, you'll find, if you just put in a read about the DEFCON system, you put DEFCON in and capitals and read about it and the history of it, the highest we've ever been is two.
00:49:49
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:49:52
Chris Styles
Like movies usually get it backwards one to five, but it five is peacetime, all things at their lowest level, right?
00:50:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:50:00
Chris Styles
And if you look at it, and of course, the only times you were at two was during things like the Cuban Missile Crisis, right?
00:50:06
Chris Styles
Pretty serious incident, you know, which was two years after this. And by the way, handled in the Canadian Navy by the same admiral who handled this mission. He was flown out from maritime command to the ships when this occurs.
00:50:06
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:50:20
Chris Styles
That's in there. But again, nothing about USOs or why they declare DEFCON 1.
00:50:23
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:50:26
Chris Styles
And the captain puts a special stamp in has to sign for it. Well, supposedly, that's never happened. DEFCON 1. I mean, you're good to go. That's like you're ready for nuclear war if need be. right You know, why?
00:50:41
Chris Styles
Why? And those ships don't move for a week. They just sit there over this spot from there.
00:50:46
Lee Hatfield
wow
00:50:47
Chris Styles
Right? So, you know, I knew this was the incident that lined up with all the various stories, and I had to go back and do it. And that's what the book is about, and that's what it's about. And right now, I'm working on a project where I actually hope, and yes, it's a long shot, but I've been lucky with long shots where it
00:50:58
Megan anderson
Thank
00:51:06
Chris Styles
I hope to engage the security systems of our Five Eye partners, and I'd like to think that somebody wants to retrieve this film from the Canadians here, right, which they've not admitted to holding.
00:51:19
Chris Styles
I know who shot the film.
00:51:19
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:51:20
Chris Styles
I can name the man. I know what doctor they gave it to at the Defense Research Board on Grove Street, and these kind of details that aren't in the book, some of them, I'm going to pass along shortly.
00:51:31
Megan anderson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:51:32
Chris Styles
I'm working on a project with somebody else who's helping me with it, and we're going to submit this to all the Five Eye partners and think that, you know, these kind of things should be shared at least among them, if not with the public. And well that's perhaps another step to it there.
00:51:49
Chris Styles
But,
Belief in Public Disclosure of UFO Evidence
00:51:50
Lee Hatfield
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:51:50
Chris Styles
yeah, I think I'm prepared to have egg on my face on this.
00:51:55
Chris Styles
But you know what? I believe these men. I believe the veracity. I believe that, you know, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and you need DEFCON 1,
00:52:04
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:52:04
Chris Styles
on a diving mission in Shelburne Harbor in 1960, there had to be a good reason.
00:52:09
Chris Styles
You know, and all the questions that arise, like, could it be a Russian sub? No. In 40 feet of water, you could have probably reached over the side knocked on the conning tower. You know what I mean?
00:52:10
Lee Hatfield
absolutely
00:52:19
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:52:19
Chris Styles
Like, I mean, these things just don't hold up. The other thing is the penalties are so severe for not reporting an enemy ship near a NATO operation like that. It's right in the flap of the book. And I,
00:52:32
Chris Styles
I've got copy of that and the rules and what happens. And yeah. So, you know, everything old is new again. People say, Shag Harbor, what does it mean?
00:52:45
Chris Styles
I'd like to say, why did you do it?
00:52:46
Megan anderson
Thank
00:52:46
Chris Styles
Why'd you put yourself through it? I'd say, well, I think Shag Harbor was a success, that case. And I'd like to prove there's life after high school. I'm not an academic. I had no post-secondary, but I can do it.
00:52:56
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:52:57
Chris Styles
And I said, and they go, what about Shelburne? I go, I'd like to prove there's life after Shag Harbor.
00:53:04
Lee Hatfield
Perfect. So, Chris, we've we're coming to the end of the podcast, but I've got one more question for you.
00:53:08
Chris Styles
but
00:53:11
Lee Hatfield
So recently we were interviewing a Bigfoot investigator. And we asked him what would he do if he had definitive proof that Bigfoot existed?
00:53:23
Lee Hatfield
So I'm going to kind of twist that question a little bit because yeah he did say that he didn't want to jeopardize the species so he wouldn't make it public where he saw, found, whatever.
00:53:34
Lee Hatfield
So if you had categorically evidence that an alien basically, yeah you were face to face with one, you'd be able to communicate. How would you deal with that? Would you make it public or would you keep it to yourself?
00:53:50
Chris Styles
I would make it public. I don't see why I wouldn't, you know, because i would make it public and let the public do with it as they would.
00:53:53
Megan anderson
Right.
00:53:59
Chris Styles
I mean, the thing is, you know, I mean, i don't bend any arms. You know, people can believe, they can not believe, they can embrace or not embrace. You know, some people, even then, won't care.
00:54:15
Chris Styles
You know, yeah there are people who walk amongst us and some of them it's hard to understand.
00:54:15
Megan anderson
right
00:54:19
Chris Styles
I've certainly encountered them. I've encountered them on these missions where, like, they don't care.
00:54:23
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:54:24
Chris Styles
You know, I'd say, well, what did you think about this when you're on the mission? And when I talked to one of the admirals or the captain of the ships, and I have interviewed them, and they're like, well, we just turned it over to the defense research board. The eggheads came. we handed them the data. You know what I mean?
00:54:40
Chris Styles
they they don't I said, you don't care. know If it didn't interfere with the mission, I don't care. I'm a Navy, you know.
00:54:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:54:48
Chris Styles
That's how some people view it, you know, that it's not significant. I know in the field and and scientists, we tend to say, you know, we take this approach, you know, even like people like Carl Sagan, who was a closet ufologist, I believe, in a way, you know, they're they're like, you know, everything will change and it's profound and it defines who we are.
00:54:50
Megan anderson
yeah
00:55:02
Megan anderson
Thank
00:55:10
Chris Styles
But there are many people that don't feel that way. The world will go on, it'll change, you know, if we do definitively. So I think what I'm saying is, if i what you're saying really is, Chris, if you had the kind of evidence that would convince any skeptic, you know, in that alone, I'd have to have that fun and release it.
00:55:25
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:55:29
Chris Styles
But I think we should all know and weigh it for ourselves. Those who care will care.
00:55:33
Megan anderson
Right. Right.
00:55:33
Chris Styles
Some will care more. A lot of people won't care. Life will go on. We'll still mistreat others. They'll be the problems of the world.
00:55:40
Lee Hatfield
Oh, for sure.
00:55:41
Chris Styles
For some people, it will enhance their life and their outlook and that. Will it change? Makes me think of that old science fiction story. I think it was Stanley Weinbaum, the day after the day the Martians came, you know, and you see all the same old problems and prejudices and everything go on, you know.
00:55:59
Megan anderson
my
00:56:00
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:56:00
Chris Styles
it is
00:56:01
Lee Hatfield
Well,
00:56:01
Chris Styles
It will it'll be profound to some, not to others, right?
00:56:05
Chris Styles
And I'll let them decide, but why why should I hold it as a person?
00:56:05
Lee Hatfield
for sure.
00:56:05
Megan anderson
right
00:56:06
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:56:09
Chris Styles
That's what's wrong all around.
00:56:10
Megan anderson
right
00:56:11
Chris Styles
That's what's been whatever, you know.
00:56:13
Chris Styles
It's been held, and who has the right? I've seen people take some pretty profound things I've found out to the grave with them. And listen, I respect, look, in at the introduction to my books, We Clarify, say how much I respect the men, you know, that were on these missions, that dealt in the Cold War with these things, that had to encounter and deal with the unknowns.
00:56:13
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:56:35
Chris Styles
while not being allowed to acknowledge its very existence, right? And I just as equally honor those who decided to take their secrets to the grave.
00:56:40
Megan anderson
Thank
00:56:44
Chris Styles
You know what I mean? It was a different time, a different thing.
00:56:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:56:48
Chris Styles
And there is more difference in this world between 1960 and 67 than 67 and now. By
Conclusion and Appreciation
00:56:54
Chris Styles
67, the Americans in the world had lost its innocence. You know what mean? After the assassination of Kennedy and his brother and, and you know,
00:57:04
Chris Styles
Martin Luther King. It was a different world, right? Nobody was blinded.
00:57:08
Lee Hatfield
Now
00:57:08
Chris Styles
In 1960, people respected and believed their government. You can't even imagine that now.
00:57:13
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:57:15
Chris Styles
Don't ask what you... Yeah, very different world. You have to see these things in context.
00:57:15
Lee Hatfield
that's very.
00:57:19
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:57:19
Lee Hatfield
for sure.
00:57:21
Megan anderson
Yeah.
00:57:21
Chris Styles
Study the UFOs, but study the humans too.
00:57:25
Lee Hatfield
Oh, 100%.
00:57:26
Chris Styles
And the context.
00:57:27
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Okay, Chris, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
00:57:31
Megan anderson
Yes. Thank you.
00:57:33
Lee Hatfield
i think Megan's definitely learned a lot because she's such a big UFO buff.
00:57:33
Chris Styles
Yeah.
00:57:35
Megan anderson
I did. I love it.
00:57:38
Lee Hatfield
So i'd love to thank I'd like to thank you again for coming on to the show. And we thank for your
00:57:44
Chris Styles
Well, thank you for your interest.
00:57:44
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:57:46
Chris Styles
it's It's always, you know, I never tire of it, you know. And, you know, it's good to see young people in the field coming in on that, Megan. And I know there's somebody in Halifax I'm hoping to engage with on this project recently, probably about your age range and female that I'm looking forward. You know, we need fresh blood in this field and a fresh outlook, you know.
00:58:07
Lee Hatfield
Awesome.
00:58:08
Megan anderson
Thank you.
00:58:08
Lee Hatfield
Well, thank you very much for your time.
00:58:08
Megan anderson
Bye-bye.
00:58:10
Chris Styles
Yeah.
00:58:11
Chris Styles
Thank you.
00:58:11
Megan anderson
thank you
00:58:12
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:58:12
Chris Styles
Take care. Bye-bye.
00:58:13
Lee Hatfield
Bye. Bye.