Transcript
Lee Hatfield: Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of SEPA Paranormal Chronicles. Tonight I'm delighted to have Wendy Coke with me. Wendy is a Michigan-based author known for her atmospheric Northwoods thrillers that blend romance, paranormal show romance, paranormal mystery and small town suspense and she's also the host of Juicy Pear podcast.
Lee Hatfield: Wendy, hi, welcome and thank you for joining me.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, thank you, Elise. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's great to be here.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, i' say I know that we've been talking offline and it's like it's taken a few weeks to get you here, but you're here and you're not going anywhere until you're done.
Wendy M. Kok: I'm not going anywhere. here. i know. we I appreciate you being flexible. And yeah, I'm glad to be on your show finally. Yes. Love it.
Lee Hatfield: That's it. And that and that's all that matters. You're here now. So you were going to be talking about some of the books that you've written and we're going to be talking about the your your podcast. But first, how did your paranormal road first occur and how did all that develop?
Wendy M. Kok: Well, I have to say that it started when I was young. I grew up in a small town in Northwoods, Wisconsin on a lake resort. My parents you know just had a really nice resort. It had eight cabins along the lake. you know I didn't realize how good I had it back then. i don't live on water now. I wish I did. But it was just a great idyllic place to grow up.
Wendy M. Kok: But in the same token, it was also, there was a lot of eeriness there. We had paranormal activity out in the woods, meaning we heard a lot of strange noises. my mom saw a UFO in the area and, it was, it's just, it's peaceful there, but there just seems to be an undercurrent of supernatural activity.
Wendy M. Kok: So anyway, I felt that that would be, great place to, where I have, it's just front and center in my books. So when I was a young girl, i kind of had a sixth sense as well. And I wanted to add that into the books.
Wendy M. Kok: And that's what's really the theme behind a gray resort, which is my first, which is the first book.
Lee Hatfield: Awesome.
Wendy M. Kok: It took eight years to write, by the way.
Lee Hatfield: Quite quick then, really.
Lee Hatfield: And why do you think it took so long? Was it was it a case of that you weren't happy with what you'd got down, so you changed it? Or did you just do a little bit, go away, do a little bit more, go away, and that kind of thing?
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, no, I, so I have two sets of twins. Okay. And they're in their twenties and the oldest set is 22 and the youngest set of twins is 19. So, you know, eight years ago i was in the throes of parenting. You know, I really didn't have the time or the wherewithal. I was trying to keep all four kiddos alive, but I always love to write. And, would just kind of, was also a great,
Wendy M. Kok: way to escape. It was a nice escape for me. And I just had a journal and I kept it with me. You know, if I was driving in a car, i would have it. And if there was flashes of inspiration would come, or if I'd get an idea, I would write it down.
Wendy M. Kok: And yeah, it took eight years and I didn't know anybody in the publishing industry. I didn't really know what I was doing really. I had to just start from the ground up, half my manuscript just, you know,
Wendy M. Kok: my laptop wasn't working and it just kind of ate up half of my manuscript. That was, that really took me off track. So that took a while to recover and, you know, just little things like that. I'm like, I didn't let that stop me because I thought the story was pretty, you know, pretty interesting and I wanted to get it out there and I was going to stop at nothing.
Wendy M. Kok: So I'm glad it did, but it was, it took a while.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, for sure.
Lee Hatfield: The fact that you mentioned that you when you're driving and you've got your notepad, I can just imagine sort of like swerving down the road, right trying to write on your knee, sort like I've just had an inspiration. I'm just going to, oh, I'm on the wrong side road. Come back.
Lee Hatfield: I imagine that did not happen.
Wendy M. Kok: it's him No, but I, you know, sometimes you just never know where you're going to inspiration.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: And also I learned that to keep a notepad right next to your nightstand, you know, because if you get up in the middle of night or if you have a dream and it's like, oh, that's very interesting, that would be really cool.
Wendy M. Kok: And oh I'll write it, I'll remember it. Nope, you wake up. And at least for me, I never would remember my dreams. So, that's that's a good thing to do as well if you're looking for something to write about or need needing some kind of inspiration.
Lee Hatfield: Well, they do.
Wendy M. Kok: But I
Lee Hatfield: Sorry, carry on.
Wendy M. Kok: no i was just going to say, I never really lacked for that. I've always had a you know the people say, gosh, you know, Just I don't know where it comes from when i set aside time to write. It's just like a stream of creativity. just coming I have no problems coming up with stuff.
Wendy M. Kok: My issue is putting it together in a cohesive way. That's my challenge. And that was another reason why it took so long as well.
Lee Hatfield: That makes sense. And it's funny you should kind of just say what you did because when we have our lunch at work, we we have Netflix on yeah in our lunchroom.
Lee Hatfield: And at the moment, we're watching Breaking Bad. And it's sort of like, where do these people get these ideas from? Because I don't know if you've watched the show, but some of the things that happened it are absolutely crazy.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: And it's like for somebody to actually sit down and write that story, It's like, where do you get this, like, all this information and, like, this storyline from?
Lee Hatfield: And, like, anybody that writes, I have full praise for. Because, yeah, I think I've tried it in the past, but it's still somewhere on my computer. It's like, I might go back to it one day in the future, but...
Wendy M. Kok: perfect It sort of takes a life on its own. You know, i never really know. I'm sort of a pantser. I just kind of fly by the seat of my pants when it comes to stories and, you know, trying to figure out I don't need to have a rough, you know, thing of the beginning, the end.
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: And I just don't like to do that because to me, i guess for my ADHD brain is that it's just that's a little mundane and I don't like that. So I just kind of go, go, go.
Wendy M. Kok: And then yes, the process is harder when I have to come back to it and edit it and organize it and, you know, take it to an editor and they're like, what in the heck is going on with you? But I just find that that's the way I like to write and that's how it's worked out for me.
Wendy M. Kok: So I'm just going to keep doing it that way. I mean, sure I could, I'll probably do some more outlining on my next book a little bit, a little bit maybe, but for the most part, I just like to keep it the way I've been doing it.
Lee Hatfield: and That sounds so cool. so Let's just go back a little bit. yeah You said that you had some paranormal experiences when you were younger. Can you give us an insight into into what happened?
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, sure. So when I was younger, and it's in the beginning of my first book, A Great Resort, and it really just kind of how it kind of takes off, I would know about things before they occurred. And it was the first really kind of jolt of it was with my grandparents. My grandmother in particular, I was very close to her.
Wendy M. Kok: And they my grandparents were going to go to Florida. And, you know, she was, she's never been to Florida and she was all excited about it. And I was about six or seven at the time.
Wendy M. Kok: And she's like, oh, it's okay. You know, I'm, I'll go and pick out some shells for you. And, you know, and, you know, we'll be together, we'll come visit. And I'll be back up here in about two weeks. And I just remember when she was saying that to me, I just had a very strong sense of,
Wendy M. Kok: this was going to be the end. If she goes to Florida, I would never see her again. And I just, I just, the feeling was so strong and I didn't know where it was coming from. And, and we were quite close and I just felt compelled to tell her that. because I just didn't know how else to address it.
Wendy M. Kok: it's like the elephant in the room. And I just said, no, grandma, if you go to Florida, you're going die over there. And, My grandfather just kind of you know, everyone was in shock. They were like, oh, you know, my parents were there. And they're like, why would you say a thing such a thing? and And because I just kind of knew it, and that's what ended up happening. So that's the beginning part of our Gritty Resort.
Wendy M. Kok: So, yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Wow. so And it's it's weird that you mentioned this kind of sixth sense because yeah yeah some people can get deja vu. Some people can recognize a face that they've never met the person before, but they feel like they they know that person already.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, for sure.
Lee Hatfield: So it's interesting how these kind of things come about, and that adds to the unexplained pile of things that we don't know why it happens, when it happens, or how it happens.
Wendy M. Kok: right.
Wendy M. Kok: And it's so isolating too, because back then, that you just didn't talk about anything like how it is today. I mean, the paranormal is just like, everybody's talking about it.
Wendy M. Kok: Back then, you just didn't, you didn't talk about that subject.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: you That was a big, big no-no. You know, if you were left-handed, you had like the devil in you kind of thing. That's how, and I'm left-handed. And I just, you know, the way they treated that sort of thing back in the day is so starkly, vastly different than how it is today. And I just thought I was, I didn't know where this information was coming from. And it scared me, you know.
Wendy M. Kok: I wouldn't like it.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, and I've had similar conversations with people that have got mediumistic skills and they've literally said exactly the same as what you've just said. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: They either don't know where it come from or if they mentioned it, they were told to shut up or go and sit in the corner or or the family would go, okay, you've probably got something wrong with you.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: We're going to get you tested.
Wendy M. Kok: Right. Right. You're crazy.
Lee Hatfield: i
Wendy M. Kok: You know, don't let, we don't talk about it.
Lee Hatfield: Exactly.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Exactly. But... over the last, let's be modest here and say 15 to 20 years, that coin has 100% flipped. Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Absolutely.
Lee Hatfield: we've had We've had UFO release yeah records released.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: with a meia And all these,
Wendy M. Kok: Isn't that crazy? What's weird about that.
Lee Hatfield: yeah, but
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, no, I don't, I just want, what's weird about that is with AI all over the place. Now, if they release it there, you know, you can say, oh, that was just AI.
Wendy M. Kok: So there's just so much gray area that it really isn't, you know, the shock value isn't going to be there really. I don't know.
Lee Hatfield: That's it. Yeah, no, you were you're absolutely right. And, yeah you know, if you follow all these Facebook pages or you watch some of these TV shows, you literally don't know what's real and what's not.
Wendy M. Kok: I know. And don't like that. I mean, I'm not completely opposed to AI.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: I think it's fantastic as far as marketing and things like that. Would I let AI write my books? Absolutely not. No. Would i use it to help market them?
Wendy M. Kok: For sure. You know, save me some time there.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, yeah, you've got to know when to use it in the correct instance.
Wendy M. Kok: But yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Right.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, and like, yeah, we've watched some of these shows where instances are caught on camera. yeah. And a lot of them, you just go, okay, what's behind the door or yeah, somebody threw something off camera.
Lee Hatfield: But then when you see like a, a three year old having a tug of war with an invisible entity, it's those that are more difficult too to, to like fake because you can't tell a three year old to be a mime artist.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: right
Lee Hatfield: And it's and and it's it's ones like that that absolutely fascinate me. And I remember reading a book a few years ago, and it was about the afterlife.
Lee Hatfield: And it was a story of, I think, about three or four-year-old kid in the US, and he was having nightmares that he was on fire. He then told his kid.
Wendy M. Kok: Is this the popular one where he, is this where he was an airplane airline pilot or like, i yes, I love that story.
Lee Hatfield: Say that again, sorry?
Lee Hatfield: That's the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Soul Survivor, I think it's called.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: so Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: I, it's fascinating.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like the fact that he went to that reunion and he could name people. It's like, okay.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, there's no way that little kid would know all the details of that particular plane.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. makes find now
Wendy M. Kok: Yes, that story fascinated me as well.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: There is no, there's no way that he would know all that his parents never talked about it.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: You know, yeah he couldn't get access to it. I mean, I'm sure he could. I don't know. just, there's no way.
Lee Hatfield: No, exactly. And yeah it's it's those kind of stories that I absolutely love.
Wendy M. Kok: Yes.
Lee Hatfield: So the fact that you've got two sets of twins, have you noticed any, what's the word I'm looking for, like instances where they know that the other's been hurt or the the other's not happy, that you know that kind of thing? Because yeah they say that twins have got intuition.
Lee Hatfield: Have you noticed anything with with the twins?
Wendy M. Kok: I haven't had anything like that, which is strange, but my girls do have some sort of that sixth sense. not all of them, but, couple of them have sort of the same insight where they know when things are going to happen.
Wendy M. Kok: Well, no, I take that back. I think with my younger set, my boy, girl, twin, I think when the other was sick, the one would know it and be sick as well. And they would be, you know, not even in the same classroom or whatever. They would feel that same sickness, things like that for sure.
Wendy M. Kok: But other than that, not too much.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: of
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. And again, that's something that you can't explain. it it It's so cool that we can't explain it because if everything that we that was unexplained, we could explain, OK, life's boring.
Lee Hatfield: We don't want to play anymore.
Wendy M. Kok: No, you know what? There's so much. There's so much out there that we don't know about. And I feel like there's stuff flying around unseen, both good and bad. I mean, that's that's that's reality and energy. You know, when you walk into into a room and you can just feel that's all real stuff.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, for sure.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. i And it's interesting because i was interviewing a friend of mine who's, she lives in Cleveland. She's a medium. And I'm asking her all the all the yeah the same kind of questions that she probably gets asked thousands of times.
Lee Hatfield: What happens when you see? What happens when you feel, when you hear? describe that to me describe that and she's talking through all that and then at the end of the interview she goes oh by the way your grandmother's here on your father's side i'm sorry what yeah and it kind of it just kind of throws you and it's like yeah
Wendy M. Kok: Oh,
Wendy M. Kok: wow. Crazy. Yeah. It's like, who are you? I wish I had that an ability. I don't have any of that where I could see them and maybe sense have a sense of it, but I've never seen and into the air thing like that.
Lee Hatfield: yeah
Wendy M. Kok: No.
Lee Hatfield: What's your opinion on astral projection and that kind of stuff?
Wendy M. Kok: That's a wild one. I don't know. I mean, I haven't totally closed the door on that. I mean, that's pretty wild. I feel like, I mean, who am I to say that it doesn't exist, right?
Wendy M. Kok: I'm not going to shut down somebody's experience.
Lee Hatfield: OK.
Wendy M. Kok: I think it's quite wild. Didn't the military kind of play around with that a little bit?
Lee Hatfield: They did.
Wendy M. Kok: The Philadelphia Project or Experiment, I think it was called.
Lee Hatfield: They did. You're right.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: They played around with that. You know, i don't, I don't know. It's very, i don't know. What do you think?
Lee Hatfield: Well, I'm going to tell you a story and you're going to love this story.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, okay.
Lee Hatfield: And this is somebody that you should get on the podcast as well. So I'm interviewing this girl. She's in California. I'm in Canada, she's one side of the country, I'm the other side of the country. We've never met, she's never been to Canada, and she said that she could astral project.
Lee Hatfield: So went, okay, yeah and this is live, this is live on under the, okay, do it.
Wendy M. Kok: yeah.
Lee Hatfield: So she went, yeah, she said, okay, yeah, sit comfortably, put your feet on the ground. And I went, well, I'm 13 floors up, but I'll i'll do my best. And then she goes, I'm stood next door to some dinosaur figures.
Lee Hatfield: And we have a lot of LEGO because like me and the wife love lega LEGO because it's so therapeutic. And over there, diagonally opposite, so there's no way that you can see it from any reflection.
Wendy M. Kok: yeah
Wendy M. Kok: So she wasn't, she couldn't see it or anything on your screen.
Lee Hatfield: No, there's two dinosaur Lego things. and i'm lie
Wendy M. Kok: That's crazy.
Lee Hatfield: And I'm like, okay, okay, I'll give you that one. So then I said, what's down here in front of the monitor? And she went, i don't want I don't want to sound stupid, but it looks like you've got some toys that are soldiers. And I'll show you what I've got.
Lee Hatfield: I've got some Lego, like...
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, wow.
Lee Hatfield: like Victorian, not Victoria, put Napoleonic war soldiers. And then finally, i said, because i I can see the bathroom from where I am, I went, describe my shower curtain. And we have two shower curtains, one for inside, one for outside.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: said to her, what's the inside? She went, it looked like it's polka dot. I went, okay. And it was actually, of it's like water droplets all over it. So
Wendy M. Kok: Okay. Yeah. Oh, okay.
Lee Hatfield: And then, so then I said, what's the outside one?
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: She went, I don't watch these kinds of movies, but it looks like a castle from Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. It's actually the castle from Harry Potter on the outside.
Wendy M. Kok: Wow.
Lee Hatfield: it's like with you, with the fact that you interview a lot of people on your show, yeah different like walks of life, there you
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Now I'd like you to explain that to me, please.
Wendy M. Kok: That's crazy.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: That's amazing that you could do that though. That that's amazing. Does she just like pretend like not pretend, but just sort of like project herself.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Your, your space.
Lee Hatfield: Well, that's the impression. Yeah. And i'm I'm talking to her like I'm talking to you now. There's no difference in her persona. She doesn't change.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: She doesn't close her eyes or anything.
Wendy M. Kok: Wow.
Lee Hatfield: she looks She's just talking to me like I'm talking to you now. And she's like, yeah, there's that. There's things. And it's like, okay. Good.
Wendy M. Kok: That's crazy. I don't know.
Lee Hatfield: yeah
Wendy M. Kok: That's, that's an ability. that'd be cool ability to have.
Lee Hatfield: Oh, yeah, 100%. So, yeah, so I did ask her if if she kind of like, yeah, when she knew where to draw the line. So, like, yes.
Wendy M. Kok: Right. So did she seem very confident though?
Lee Hatfield: and she went hundred percent
Wendy M. Kok: She didn't like seem like, wow, that's something.
Lee Hatfield: 100%. 100%. Yeah. i I'll pass you her name as well.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, I would love that. My gosh.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. So. You had a couple of experiences when you were when you were younger. You got the got your sixth sense. So how did that progress to you becoming, well, you kind of touched on it already about becoming an author, but when did you decide what kind of genre of writing that you wanted to concentrate on?
Wendy M. Kok: I didn't even like entertain that thought at all. I just had this story in me and I thought I am just, it's just gonna, I'm just gonna have it come out. I didn't like, oh, I'm gonna write in this particular genre. I'm gonna have this and in this particular way. I just wrote, you know, I wanted to write the story. I thought it was compelling.
Wendy M. Kok: And then, it started progressing, I wanted people to, you know, experience what it was like on that resort. You know, it was during the 70s and 80s. So completely different from today's world.
Wendy M. Kok: You know, my parents had these wonderful parties and they're, you know, good, wholesome parties with picnics and stuff. And everyone would come into town like if they would get wind that, hey, you know, this fish oil resort is going to have a party that People from in town would come. We would have all people all over the place.
Wendy M. Kok: And we never ran out of food.
Lee Hatfield: so
Wendy M. Kok: And they were just, you know, they were great. they were great hostesses and hosts. And it was just, it with the backdrop of the Northwoods, and then with the eeriness of the paranormal stuff that would happen, I thought, okay, I'm going to write this. i want I want to capture this time.
Wendy M. Kok: And I think I did that. i
Lee Hatfield: so
Wendy M. Kok: I write very kind of atmospheric and I wanted to, I wanted people to keep turning the page. You know, I wanted to make it very enthralling and the best thing they've ever read really. And I think I achieved that. So, and also I, you know, I wanted to have confidence. I didn't, you know, I had it to, I had a bunch of different people read it and, you know, and I was going to stop at that book.
Wendy M. Kok: And I got a small little following from it and they're like, no, no, don't stop. Keep going. So that's why I made it into a series. So yeah, when I wrote the book, I thought it was just going to be one and done. But no, so.
Lee Hatfield: So hope it kind of, know, the description is that you blend romance, paranormal mystery, and then small town suspense.
Wendy M. Kok: Yes.
Lee Hatfield: So how do you kind of blend that all together?
Wendy M. Kok: Well, it's sort of like oh if Stephen King were to stop at a lakeside bar and share a couple of his dark stories, it's kind of so kind of like that.
Lee Hatfield: Thank
Wendy M. Kok: you know Northwood's thriller, I always feel like it's very interesting, the unseen or you know something that can be so peaceful, but on the flip side of that can be the the quite dark.
Wendy M. Kok: And, you know, there's a lot of different things that happen in small towns, too, you know, murder and all that other stuff. And I just thought, you know, I'm going to I'm just going to keep writing and see where it goes. And I'm glad I did the series. I'm glad I didn't stop it. The first book, even though it was quite wasn't easy.
Lee Hatfield: So I'm going to be really philosophical now. It's not very often I can say big words, but I just I just mastered that one. Because of the paranormal nature, do you think you're being led down any particular road with your writing?
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. When I'm writing and I get into the flow, it only takes a few minutes and it just, I don't know where it comes. I can just get flashes of inspiration. I start writing.
Wendy M. Kok: And, you know, when I'm like, when my hand's shaking, like, oh my gosh, this is going be so good. You know, and I can actually feel it. That's like, i don't know. It's very good for the soul. I mean, it's just, it,
Wendy M. Kok: It's got to be coming from, you know, another place. I don't know where I don't know where I get it, but I love it. And but it doesn't happen every day. i tell you that it's not like every single day I write and every single day that I write like three or four pages. That's not the case either. It's either sometimes I'll go weeks without writing and then I'll sit down and I'll write a lot You know, I've had where I've written all night. I've had a couple all night writing parties, you know, just to get, because I didn't want to stop kind of thing, which is a little ridiculous, but. Great.
Lee Hatfield: But if you enjoy doing it and yeah you think that this is the right time to put pen to paper, then you can't stop just because it's like three o'clock in the morning.
Lee Hatfield: yeah You have to go on.
Wendy M. Kok: What's weird is I enjoy doing it, but at the same time, it's like the vein of my existence. Because it's like, it's just, I enjoy doing it, but sometimes it can get, you know, can be very, can be overwhelming.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: And I don't know when to stop, you know, it's like, got to stop. But don't
Lee Hatfield: You never do. you just keep carry it going and going.
Wendy M. Kok: know. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Okay. So we can talk about some more of the book, but what I want to talk about is, uh, the podcast.
Wendy M. Kok: Yes.
Lee Hatfield: So, because obviously you interview, okay. I just got a thing on my phone. So this is spam.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: love that I love that. love that.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, well, my phone's connected to my headset because I walk to work, so I have my music on. So it's a bit just nice.
Wendy M. Kok: Gotcha.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, so you talk to a lot of different people from yeah lot of different walks of life. But, yeah, I want to concentrate on the paranormal people that you spoke to. So, number one, I think you kind of mentioned it earlier, but let's go into a bit more detail of how your podcast came about and if you want to share some of the stories that you've you've heard and sort like, i I always find it interesting when I kind of, someone tells me something and I just go, what?
Lee Hatfield: And you just kind of like, okay, you've just told me something so astounding that I've got, I don't know what to say next.
Wendy M. Kok: Right.
Lee Hatfield: So you've got to have a quick second to, yeah, exactly.
Wendy M. Kok: It's like this belief, like what? Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: So let's talk about your podcast, Juicy Pear Podcast.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah. So, I started the juicy pair podcast originally, my friend, Sean, it was during COVID and, It was really kind of my baby. I really wanted something.
Wendy M. Kok: was sick of the incessant negativity during that time. It was like like a great big dark cloud just stopped and it would just never go away. And it was always the news was horrible. you know, you go to the store and that was horrible. you know, they were.
Wendy M. Kok: you know giving you directions on what direction you need to what aisle you needed to go down first in the grocery store and i just thought oh my god this the world is gone completely bonkers wanted to find a little bit of joy i wanted to make it fun to be alive so uh really i just so sean and i hosted And we had a bunch of people on the show. i wanted to spotlight creatives, other authors. And then it just kind of branched out from there.
Wendy M. Kok: Shawn, after a few episodes, decided that that wasn't quite her wheelhouse with podcasting. And I said, that's that's fine. you know And that ended am amicably.
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: And I kind of liked podcasting more anyway. And she's like, just go ahead you you know just go ahead and do it by yourself. It's fine. and So I did.
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: So I just continued on and I kind of gravitated towards the paranormal. I always found that the pretty interesting. The UFO elements is always fascinated me. My mom had seen a UFO when she was younger and in that area in northern Wisconsin.
Wendy M. Kok: And I always found that interesting. so I've had several people on the show that have experienced UFO abduction, which they like to call UFO experience. They don't like to call it abduction.
Wendy M. Kok: And I had them on the show and they kind of, you know, told of what happened. And I just, I will always find that fascinating to me. I mean, why would you put, you purposely put yourself through that? I mean, and you're open to ridicule. You you wouldn't, you know, they want to be famous or they want, no, I don't think that really is the case.
Wendy M. Kok: So I just find just those types of stories very fascinating.
Lee Hatfield: so
Lee Hatfield: So.
Wendy M. Kok: I find that interesting. I've gone to the Mothman conference or whatever they have every year. That is so much fun. i went a couple years ago in West Virginia, Point Pleasant.
Wendy M. Kok: That was a blast. Had people about the mothman on the show. had psychics on the show, near death experiences and DEs. That's always fun.
Wendy M. Kok: Just really, if you've got a fun story, uh, I, I love to have that person on the show. If it has a paranormal element, that's a plus, you know,
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. And from what I recall, the Mothman is in your neck of the woods, a lot with a lot of sightings.
Wendy M. Kok: Chicago Yeah, he's been spotted in the Chicago area around the airports around there. Very fascinating. In fact, if someone's ever seen it or, you know, I wouldn't mind having them on the show just to talk about it because that is, that's crazy.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, and well one thing that I've been trying to do recently is if people are listening, don't take this the wrong way. But Bigfoot and Sasquatch researchers, investigators are all over the place.
Lee Hatfield: load There's loads of them. But when you want to talk about the dog man or the moth man, yeah or yeah a few of the other more lesser known ones there's less people around that you can actually speak to and tracking them down it's like catching fog sometimes it's extremely difficult
Wendy M. Kok: Right. Right. The Michigan dog man is that's a thing up in Northern Michigan. There's a couple of really interesting stories about people that have experienced the dog man while camping.
Wendy M. Kok: No kidding up in the UP area that I'd love to have them on the show as well. I haven't had them on, but I think that would be a fantastic story.
Wendy M. Kok: Right.
Lee Hatfield: I think I have somebody that you could do.
Wendy M. Kok: Cool.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, i've got I've got somebody that won't pass names over here because other people might find out.
Wendy M. Kok: Right, right, right, right.
Lee Hatfield: So out of all the different subsections of the paranormal, ghosts or UFOs or cryptids, psychics, you know, clairvoyant, all that kind stuff, what would you say is your favourite subject?
Wendy M. Kok: the mothman is number pretty high up there. Another one that's quite interesting too is, and I've, I'm sure you've heard of this is, uh, what is it?
Lee Hatfield: So,
Wendy M. Kok: The four one, one there's stories on it where people are disappearing in state parks all over the U S and under very sketchy circumstances.
Wendy M. Kok: that I find interesting as well, like the One in particular, he was a hunter and he was with like eight, nine other people.
Lee Hatfield: So,
Wendy M. Kok: And they in the his friend behind him said he was just like four or five feet ahead of me. And this weird, weird fog rolled in. And it was like he just, you know, disappeared.
Wendy M. Kok: And, you know, they scoured that woods and they just could not find him. I find that really odd. Like what happened to him? Did he fall into a sinkhole?
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Did he enter another dimension? on That's, you know, interesting too. You know, people who have claimed that they've stepped into time and then come back. Yeah. But there seems to be a lot of different circumstances like that in the national parks of the United States.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: In particular, what, Yellowstone, there's a couple very strange stories. And I'm like, huh, do I want to go camping out these parks?
Lee Hatfield: a yeah
Wendy M. Kok: I don't know about that. I mean, I've been to the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone and stuff. They're beautiful. But I don't know. and don't know. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable.
Lee Hatfield: So,
Wendy M. Kok: and I know that sounds kind of strange just kind of walking around at night. I surely wouldn't. I don't know.
Lee Hatfield: well, I'm a paranormal investigator. I sit in dark rooms all the time and talk to myself. so
Lee Hatfield: But it's really... fun to talk to these people. Yeah, these guys, because i yeah I'm a country boy from the UK, but I live in a city now.
Lee Hatfield: I'm not a city boy in any way, shape or form. But when you live in the countryside, you get used to the noises that the forest makes, the noises that the animals make. you You get familiar with your surroundings. And all these people, or most of these people that come out with these reported sightings of whichever cryptid we want to talk about and on any particular night, they know damn well that what they're experiencing
Lee Hatfield: is something that's not normal in that particular area.
Wendy M. Kok: Right.
Lee Hatfield: So what is it they're experiencing? Yeah, that's the classic question.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah. I just think there's things that can't be explained. the West Virginia area, beautiful, but haunting as well. I, you know, I, I really liked it when I went down to the Mothman festival.
Wendy M. Kok: And I could just kind of sense there's that sort of aura of mystery in that area. It's beautiful, rolling hills and things, but I don't know, there's just something there.
Wendy M. Kok: There's just a lot of lore there and I wouldn't be a camping out by myself there, never.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. didn yeah yeah I I do find that There is too many sightings of, whether it be cryptids, UFOs or whatever, there's too many sightings for it to be like misunderstood.
Lee Hatfield: yeah it's It's something that's normal that people mistake for.
Wendy M. Kok: For
Lee Hatfield: There's too many sightings for that kind of thing, for there not to be something.
Wendy M. Kok: for sure.
Lee Hatfield: But what that something is, we still have to figure out.
Wendy M. Kok: The one thing that gives me pause, and I'm not saying I don't believe leave it, but it's, it's just it's not that it's far fetched, it's just that it's hard for me to wrap my head around is lizard people or whatever. you know I don't know what you what your take is on that.
Wendy M. Kok: you know I've heard a few stories from out west California and it i don't know I don't know what to think about that. I've read a couple stories that was seemed compelling, but in the same token, I don't know.
Wendy M. Kok: were they
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. Yeah. it's that's That's one of those really. But then if you want if you want to flip this coin and this coin's ending up with having more than two sides right now.
Lee Hatfield: When people talk about aliens, they're talking about reptilians as being one of the races. So is that something that they're that they're experiencing or is it a cryptid that looks like a lizard?
Wendy M. Kok: I can see that.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, I mean, It's possible for sure. What was that? I read the book are communion by Whitney can't think of his last name, but there is a movie about have you seen communion?
Lee Hatfield: I don't think so. and Don't remember that.
Wendy M. Kok: It's really good. It's it's about a family. He's a writer and he has a cabin in upstate. I think it's New York or you know out east. And they go there for the weekend to their cabin.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, he had quite the experience. Yeah, I'll just say this. He experienced something that was very scary. And, i you know, it I mean, it's he said it's a true story.
Wendy M. Kok: You know, he saw an alien in his house or whatever, and these bright lights. And I guess I don't know, one weekend, he, they brought another couple with them.
Wendy M. Kok: And the couple got so scared. They're like, you know, the next morning they're like, did you see these lights? They were all over the place. And they're like, no, it's the moon. He's like, no, it's not the moon. And they get upset and they leave early because they were scared.
Wendy M. Kok: But yeah, he had a bunch of abduction experiences. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. And it's quite funny in one sense that when people go to me, yeah when you're in a dark room in the middle of the night, do not get scared.
Wendy M. Kok: yeah
Lee Hatfield: It's like, look, 20 years ago, i was running into house fires when everybody else is running out.
Wendy M. Kok: and
Lee Hatfield: A noise in the dark is not is not going to scare me, trust me.
Wendy M. Kok: Well, that's why you got into that field. you must like, you know, to be scared or whatever, right? and You want to kind of, you've got questions. You want to find the answer.
Lee Hatfield: Oh, I'm Yeah, i'm just yeah oh I'm just I'm just like, oh, there's a noise. It's like if you've got a murderer in the kitchen, like in all these movies, and you know the murderer's in your house, you don't go, hello, is there anybody there, do you?
Lee Hatfield: But they all do that.
Wendy M. Kok: They all do it. I don't know. You think they can, but they never do.
Lee Hatfield: It's like, and fun no, yeah, and if you'd watched this movie...
Wendy M. Kok: It's like, you might as well open open up the drawer and get the knife out for them here and just hand it to them. You know, it's like, come on.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, and that's exactly sort of like, yeah. And it's the same for cryptids or ghosts and spirits. If I hear something, I'm going to oh, let's go to see what that is.
Lee Hatfield: Some people go, nope, nope, nope.
Wendy M. Kok: I would be hiding. I wouldn't be seeing, looking for them, but,
Lee Hatfield: It's like, when where's Wendy gone? Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, I'm pretty proud of it it. came out late last year.
Lee Hatfield: What?
Wendy M. Kok: It's the third book in the series. I kind of tried to to make it a standalone where you wouldn't necessarily have to read the first two. But, you know, it's called The Choice and it stems from it all starts out 1968 Memorial Day weekend.
Wendy M. Kok: Because of that event is why this town, the town I grew up in, which I changed the name of the town, why some of these things are acting the way they they are.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: So, yeah.
Lee Hatfield: And it's interesting that you said that you scared yourself because we did an investigation.
Lee Hatfield: It's got to be almost two years ago now. And it was a work colleague who was also an author. I think he was writing either his second or his. And the story that he was writing was on demonology.
Lee Hatfield: And he was saying that whenever he started to write, he would hear things in his basement.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh shoot. Stirring up some stuff.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah. Yeah. So he caught me in when he found out that we were investigators. And we're driving down towards his house.
Lee Hatfield: There's a graveyard on one side of the road. There's a cemetery on the other. And when we're pulled into his driveway, his house is kind of in two parts. One part of it was built in 1875.
Lee Hatfield: eighteen seventy five and the other power yeah And the other part was built in like the 1940s.
Wendy M. Kok: Ooh, lot of history.
Lee Hatfield: And he showed us where the basement was, and we we got one of these phone apps that we don't usually use, but we just thought we'd give it a go.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: And the first thing it came out with was graveyard, cemetery, 1875, come and find me. come and find me
Wendy M. Kok: Oh my
Lee Hatfield: it my It's like, what? But, yeah, we then look at these kind of things to go, okay, are they listening like some AI devices can, but it wasn't switched on at the time.
Lee Hatfield: So we're a bit dubious, but it's still quite cool. the fact that it yeah We haven't mentioned the fact that there was a cemetery or a graveyard, but it just came straight out with all those kind of things. So the fact that he was actually quite scared, he actually gave up writing that particular story because of what was going on in his basement.
Wendy M. Kok: close to home. Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah. And like i even I don't know if he's if he's carried on or if he's finished it now, but it's it's it's so weird. So out of all the people that you've interviewed on the Juicy Pear podcast, what do you have any favourite stories or is there one particular story that really stands out for you to go, wow, I can't believe that happened?
Wendy M. Kok: yeah, I think we talked about it off camera or yeah, off recording, but I won't say her name, but, I feel like it was when she had a UFO experience, I found her story to be very compelling.
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: she described it in such vivid detail and, was. it was, pretty astonishing. And, was just like, wow. was very compelled. won't say who it was, but, UFO story really, that's probably one of my favorite ones.
Wendy M. Kok: like.
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: she was right on, just, you know, some of the abilities that these people have is just amazing. You know, She was always fun to have on my show. And I'll give you her name too. I've got a couple people that you probably would like to have on your show as well.
Lee Hatfield: Cool. See?
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah.
Lee Hatfield: And that's it's all about collaborating when you're talking to other podcasters because it's like, you would like this person.
Wendy M. Kok: Oh, for sure.
Lee Hatfield: And okay there was, OK, swap one name for one name. And I remember talking to an author last year. I think she's coming back on in about a month because she keeps, like, I wrote a new book. Can I come back on? Yeah, sure.
Lee Hatfield: Oh, you disappeared. Hello. i look
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, no, it's like, sorry, no, it's like, it says your thing is running low and I'm like, I better plug that I'm not plugged in something, but yeah, we're good.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, okay. Yeah, and she like i she was she was saying the same thing. i I had to ask her to stop after the 15th name that she gave me. And it's like, wow that's crazy.
Wendy M. Kok: That's cool though.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, it was. And that that kind of helped me.
Wendy M. Kok: That's a good problem to have too many people.
Lee Hatfield: Yeah, it was to the point where in July of last year, I had to do two a week for a month just to catch up.
Wendy M. Kok: Wow.
Lee Hatfield: It was ridiculous, but in a good way.
Wendy M. Kok: Okay.
Wendy M. Kok: Good.
Lee Hatfield: So...
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah,
Lee Hatfield: Wendy, we are coming to the end, unfortunately. So if you can tell people where they can buy your books, in fact, if you haven't mentioned one of the books, let's mention the titles. Let people know where you can buy them and where they can find your podcast.
Wendy M. Kok: yeah.
Wendy M. Kok: Thank you so much. First, i just want to thank you so much for having me on the show. It's been so fun talking with you. i just, yeah, it was easy and I love it. I love the paranormal and thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: I appreciate it
Lee Hatfield: Thank you.
Wendy M. Kok: Yeah, so my books, either my first one is called A Grey Resort and they're available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Book Baby Bookshop. You can go wendymcokeauthor.net. My website talks about more in depth about, my books. And so a great resort is the first one. The second one is an awakening.
Wendy M. Kok: And the third one is the choice and the choice just recently came out last year.
Lee Hatfield: What?
Wendy M. Kok: And, they're all available on Amazon Barnes and Noble and on my website. And, Yeah. Did I miss anything? i'm on the show I'm on the socials. My Instagram handle is Wendy Coke 4.
Wendy M. Kok: I always love new readers and love meeting new people. So yeah, I read my books. I love it.
Lee Hatfield: And that's an order. Read Wendy's books. Otherwise, you'll she will hunt you down. Wendy, it's been an absolute pleasure. We've had some good laughs.
Lee Hatfield: And it's i've I've learned some more about the Michigan, Wisconsin area, which I didn't know before. I know where it is, but that's about it. But thank you for your time.
Wendy M. Kok: of course.
Lee Hatfield: We'll definitely be talking again because I think we've got something else lined up. But for now, thank you very much. You have a great rest of the evening.
Wendy M. Kok: Thank you.
Lee Hatfield: Take care. Bye-bye.
