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S2 E25 Wendy M. Kok - Paranormal Author
19 Plays9 days ago
Tonight I'm delighted to have Wendy Kok with me.
Wendy is a Michigan-based author known for her atmospheric Northwoods thrillers that blend romance, paranormal show romance, paranormal mystery and small town suspense and she's also the host of Juicy Pear podcast.
Wendy has always had an interest in the Paranormal, especially after hearing unexplained noises, in her local woods, and she would know about things before they occurred.
We discussed how AI, interferes with so many pictures and stories in this day and age.
We spoke a little about her Twins having a kind of Twin Telepathy, and how she feels that the paranormal has took her down the road of writing about the subject.
Wendy finished off by telling me me about her podcast, the Juicy Pear Podcast, and one of her favorite subjects the Mothman.
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Wendy Coke
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of SEPA Paranormal Chronicles. Tonight I'm delighted to have Wendy Coke with me. Wendy is a Michigan-based author known for her atmospheric Northwoods thrillers that blend romance, paranormal show romance, paranormal mystery and small town suspense and she's also the host of Juicy Pear podcast.
00:00:37
Lee Hatfield
Wendy, hi, welcome and thank you for joining me.
00:00:41
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, thank you, Elise. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's great to be here.
00:00:46
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, i' say I know that we've been talking offline and it's like it's taken a few weeks to get you here, but you're here and you're not going anywhere until you're done.
00:00:56
Wendy M. Kok
I'm not going anywhere. here. i know. we I appreciate you being flexible. And yeah, I'm glad to be on your show finally. Yes. Love it.
00:01:05
Lee Hatfield
That's it. And that and that's all that matters. You're here now. So you were going to be talking about some of the books that you've written and we're going to be talking about the your your
Paranormal Childhood Experiences
00:01:15
Lee Hatfield
podcast. But first, how did your paranormal road first occur and how did all that develop?
00:01:24
Wendy M. Kok
Well, I have to say that it started when I was young. I grew up in a small town in Northwoods, Wisconsin on a lake resort. My parents you know just had a really nice resort. It had eight cabins along the lake. you know I didn't realize how good I had it back then. i don't live on water now. I wish I did. But it was just a great idyllic place to grow up.
00:01:48
Wendy M. Kok
But in the same token, it was also, there was a lot of eeriness there. We had paranormal activity out in the woods, meaning we heard a lot of strange noises. my mom saw a UFO in the area and, it was, it's just, it's peaceful there, but there just seems to be an undercurrent of supernatural activity.
00:02:10
Wendy M. Kok
So anyway, I felt that that would be, great place to, where I have, it's just front and center in my books. So when I was a young girl, i kind of had a sixth sense as well. And I wanted to add that into the books.
00:02:26
Wendy M. Kok
And that's what's really the theme behind a gray resort, which is my first, which is the first book.
00:02:35
Lee Hatfield
Awesome.
00:02:36
Wendy M. Kok
It took eight years to write, by the way.
Challenges of Writing Her First Book
00:02:41
Lee Hatfield
Quite quick then, really.
00:02:44
Lee Hatfield
And why do you think it took so long? Was it was it a case of that you weren't happy with what you'd got down, so you changed it? Or did you just do a little bit, go away, do a little bit more, go away, and that kind of thing?
00:02:59
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, no, I, so I have two sets of twins. Okay. And they're in their twenties and the oldest set is 22 and the youngest set of twins is 19. So, you know, eight years ago i was in the throes of parenting. You know, I really didn't have the time or the wherewithal. I was trying to keep all four kiddos alive, but I always love to write. And, would just kind of, was also a great,
00:03:26
Wendy M. Kok
way to escape. It was a nice escape for me. And I just had a journal and I kept it with me. You know, if I was driving in a car, i would have it. And if there was flashes of inspiration would come, or if I'd get an idea, I would write it down.
00:03:42
Wendy M. Kok
And yeah, it took eight years and I didn't know anybody in the publishing industry. I didn't really know what I was doing really. I had to just start from the ground up, half my manuscript just, you know,
00:03:59
Wendy M. Kok
my laptop wasn't working and it just kind of ate up half of my manuscript. That was, that really took me off track. So that took a while to recover and, you know, just little things like that. I'm like, I didn't let that stop me because I thought the story was pretty, you know, pretty interesting and I wanted to get it out there and I was going to stop at nothing.
Inspiration and Creative Process
00:04:19
Wendy M. Kok
So I'm glad it did, but it was, it took a while.
00:04:21
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, for sure.
00:04:25
Lee Hatfield
The fact that you mentioned that you when you're driving and you've got your notepad, I can just imagine sort of like swerving down the road, right trying to write on your knee, sort like I've just had an inspiration. I'm just going to, oh, I'm on the wrong side road. Come back.
00:04:39
Lee Hatfield
I imagine that did not happen.
00:04:40
Wendy M. Kok
it's him No, but I, you know, sometimes you just never know where you're going to inspiration.
00:04:42
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:04:48
Wendy M. Kok
And also I learned that to keep a notepad right next to your nightstand, you know, because if you get up in the middle of night or if you have a dream and it's like, oh, that's very interesting, that would be really cool.
00:04:59
Wendy M. Kok
And oh I'll write it, I'll remember it. Nope, you wake up. And at least for me, I never would remember my dreams. So, that's that's a good thing to do as well if you're looking for something to write about or need needing some kind of inspiration.
00:05:14
Lee Hatfield
Well, they do.
00:05:14
Wendy M. Kok
But I
00:05:15
Lee Hatfield
Sorry, carry on.
00:05:16
Wendy M. Kok
no i was just going to say, I never really lacked for that. I've always had a you know the people say, gosh, you know, Just I don't know where it comes from when i set aside time to write. It's just like a stream of creativity. just coming I have no problems coming up with stuff.
00:05:39
Wendy M. Kok
My issue is putting it together in a cohesive way. That's my challenge. And that was another reason why it took so long as well.
Writing Style: Embracing Spontaneity
00:05:48
Lee Hatfield
That makes sense. And it's funny you should kind of just say what you did because when we have our lunch at work, we we have Netflix on yeah in our lunchroom.
00:06:00
Lee Hatfield
And at the moment, we're watching Breaking Bad. And it's sort of like, where do these people get these ideas from? Because I don't know if you've watched the show, but some of the things that happened it are absolutely crazy.
00:06:09
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:06:12
Lee Hatfield
And it's like for somebody to actually sit down and write that story, It's like, where do you get this, like, all this information and, like, this storyline from?
00:06:22
Lee Hatfield
And, like, anybody that writes, I have full praise for. Because, yeah, I think I've tried it in the past, but it's still somewhere on my computer. It's like, I might go back to it one day in the future, but...
00:06:33
Wendy M. Kok
perfect It sort of takes a life on its own. You know, i never really know. I'm sort of a pantser. I just kind of fly by the seat of my pants when it comes to stories and, you know, trying to figure out I don't need to have a rough, you know, thing of the beginning, the end.
00:06:52
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:06:52
Wendy M. Kok
And I just don't like to do that because to me, i guess for my ADHD brain is that it's just that's a little mundane and I don't like that. So I just kind of go, go, go.
00:07:04
Wendy M. Kok
And then yes, the process is harder when I have to come back to it and edit it and organize it and, you know, take it to an editor and they're like, what in the heck is going on with you? But I just find that that's the way I like to write and that's how it's worked out for me.
00:07:20
Wendy M. Kok
So I'm just going to keep doing it that way. I mean, sure I could, I'll probably do some more outlining on my next book a little bit, a little bit maybe, but for the most part, I just like to keep it the way I've been doing it.
00:07:34
Lee Hatfield
and That sounds so cool. so Let's just go back a little bit. yeah You said that you had some paranormal experiences when you were younger. Can you give us an insight into into what happened?
00:07:47
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, sure. So when I was younger, and it's in the beginning of my first book, A Great Resort, and it really just kind of how it kind of takes off, I would know about things before they occurred. And it was the first really kind of jolt of it was with my grandparents. My grandmother in particular, I was very close to her.
00:08:10
Wendy M. Kok
And they my grandparents were going to go to Florida. And, you know, she was, she's never been to Florida and she was all excited about it. And I was about six or seven at the time.
00:08:25
Wendy M. Kok
And she's like, oh, it's okay. You know, I'm, I'll go and pick out some shells for you. And, you know, and, you know, we'll be together, we'll come visit. And I'll be back up here in about two weeks. And I just remember when she was saying that to me, I just had a very strong sense of,
00:08:42
Wendy M. Kok
this was going to be the end. If she goes to Florida, I would never see her again. And I just, I just, the feeling was so strong and I didn't know where it was coming from. And, and we were quite close and I just felt compelled to tell her that. because I just didn't know how else to address it.
00:09:01
Wendy M. Kok
it's like the elephant in the room. And I just said, no, grandma, if you go to Florida, you're going die over there. And, My grandfather just kind of you know, everyone was in shock. They were like, oh, you know, my parents were there. And they're like, why would you say a thing such a thing? and And because I just kind of knew it, and that's what ended up happening. So that's the beginning part of our Gritty Resort.
00:09:30
Wendy M. Kok
So, yeah.
00:09:32
Lee Hatfield
Wow. so And it's it's weird that you mentioned this kind of sixth sense because yeah yeah some people can get deja vu. Some people can recognize a face that they've never met the person before, but they feel like they they know that person already.
00:09:50
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, for sure.
00:09:50
Lee Hatfield
So it's interesting how
Societal Shifts in Paranormal Perception
00:09:52
Lee Hatfield
these kind of things come about, and that adds to the unexplained pile of things that we don't know why it happens, when it happens, or how it happens.
00:10:02
Wendy M. Kok
right.
00:10:05
Wendy M. Kok
And it's so isolating too, because back then, that you just didn't talk about anything like how it is today. I mean, the paranormal is just like, everybody's talking about it.
00:10:17
Wendy M. Kok
Back then, you just didn't, you didn't talk about that subject.
00:10:20
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:10:20
Wendy M. Kok
you That was a big, big no-no. You know, if you were left-handed, you had like the devil in you kind of thing. That's how, and I'm left-handed. And I just, you know, the way they treated that sort of thing back in the day is so starkly, vastly different than how it is today. And I just thought I was, I didn't know where this information was coming from. And it scared me, you know.
00:10:45
Wendy M. Kok
I wouldn't like it.
00:10:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and I've had similar conversations with people that have got mediumistic skills and they've literally said exactly the same as what you've just said. Yeah.
00:10:58
Lee Hatfield
They either don't know where it come from or if they mentioned it, they were told to shut up or go and sit in the corner or or the family would go, okay, you've probably got something wrong with you.
00:11:04
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:11:09
Lee Hatfield
We're going to get you tested.
00:11:10
Wendy M. Kok
Right. Right. You're crazy.
00:11:11
Lee Hatfield
i
00:11:11
Wendy M. Kok
You know, don't let, we don't talk about it.
00:11:12
Lee Hatfield
Exactly.
00:11:13
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:14
Lee Hatfield
Exactly. But... over the last, let's be modest here and say 15 to 20 years, that coin has 100% flipped. Yeah.
00:11:25
Wendy M. Kok
Absolutely.
00:11:25
Lee Hatfield
we've had We've had UFO release yeah records released.
00:11:29
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:30
Lee Hatfield
with a meia And all these,
00:11:31
Wendy M. Kok
Isn't that crazy? What's weird about that.
00:11:34
Lee Hatfield
yeah, but
00:11:36
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, no, I don't, I just want, what's weird about that is with AI all over the place. Now, if they release it there, you know, you can say, oh, that was just AI.
00:11:46
Wendy M. Kok
So there's just so much gray area that it really isn't, you know, the shock value isn't going to be there really. I don't know.
00:11:54
Lee Hatfield
That's it. Yeah, no, you were you're absolutely right. And, yeah you know, if you follow all these Facebook pages or you watch some of these TV shows, you literally don't know what's real and what's not.
00:12:07
Wendy M. Kok
I know. And don't like that. I mean, I'm not completely opposed to AI.
00:12:10
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:12:12
Wendy M. Kok
I think it's fantastic as far as marketing and things like that. Would I let AI write my books? Absolutely not. No. Would i use it to help market them?
00:12:24
Wendy M. Kok
For sure. You know, save me some time there.
00:12:26
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, yeah, you've got to know when to use it in the correct instance.
00:12:27
Wendy M. Kok
But yeah.
00:12:31
Wendy M. Kok
Right.
00:12:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and like, yeah, we've watched some of these shows where instances are caught on camera. yeah. And a lot of them, you just go, okay, what's behind the door or yeah, somebody threw something off camera.
00:12:48
Lee Hatfield
But then when you see like a, a three year old having a tug of war with an invisible entity, it's those that are more difficult too to, to like fake because you can't tell a three year old to be a mime artist.
00:13:03
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:13:07
Wendy M. Kok
right
00:13:08
Lee Hatfield
And it's and and it's it's ones like that that absolutely fascinate me. And I remember reading a book a few years ago, and it was about the afterlife.
00:13:19
Lee Hatfield
And it was a story of, I think, about three or four-year-old kid in the US, and he was having nightmares that he was on fire. He then told his kid.
00:13:31
Wendy M. Kok
Is this the popular one where he, is this where he was an airplane airline pilot or like, i yes, I love that story.
00:13:33
Lee Hatfield
Say that again, sorry?
00:13:37
Lee Hatfield
That's the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Soul Survivor, I think it's called.
00:13:44
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:13:44
Lee Hatfield
so Yeah.
00:13:44
Wendy M. Kok
I, it's fascinating.
00:13:45
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like the fact that he went to that reunion and he could name people. It's like, okay.
00:13:55
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, there's no way that little kid would know all the
00:13:57
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. makes find now
Intriguing Paranormal Experiences
00:13:59
Wendy M. Kok
details of that particular plane.
00:14:01
Wendy M. Kok
Yes, that story fascinated me as well.
00:14:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:14:04
Wendy M. Kok
There is no, there's no way that he would know all that his parents never talked about it.
00:14:04
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:14:09
Wendy M. Kok
You know, yeah he couldn't get access to it. I mean, I'm sure he could. I don't know. just, there's no way.
00:14:17
Lee Hatfield
No, exactly. And yeah it's it's those kind of stories that I absolutely love.
00:14:23
Wendy M. Kok
Yes.
00:14:23
Lee Hatfield
So the fact that you've got two sets of twins, have you noticed any, what's the word I'm looking for, like instances where they know that the other's been hurt or the the other's not happy, that you know that kind of thing? Because yeah they say that twins have got intuition.
00:14:43
Lee Hatfield
Have you noticed anything with with the twins?
00:14:45
Wendy M. Kok
I haven't had anything like that, which is strange, but my girls do have some sort of that sixth sense. not all of them, but, couple of them have sort of the same insight where they know when things are going to happen.
00:15:01
Wendy M. Kok
Well, no, I take that back. I think with my younger set, my boy, girl, twin, I think when the other was sick, the one would know it and be sick as well. And they would be, you know, not even in the same classroom or whatever. They would feel that same sickness, things like that for sure.
00:15:20
Wendy M. Kok
But other than that, not too much.
00:15:20
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:21
Wendy M. Kok
of
00:15:22
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. And again, that's something that you can't explain. it it It's so cool that we can't explain it because if everything that we that was unexplained, we could explain, OK, life's boring.
00:15:35
Lee Hatfield
We don't want to play anymore.
00:15:35
Wendy M. Kok
No, you know what? There's so much. There's so much out there that we don't know about. And I feel like there's stuff flying around unseen, both good and bad. I mean, that's that's that's reality and energy. You know, when you walk into into a room and you can just feel that's all real stuff.
00:15:54
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, for sure.
00:15:55
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. i And it's interesting because i was interviewing a friend of mine who's, she lives in Cleveland. She's a medium. And I'm asking her all the all the yeah the same kind of questions that she probably gets asked thousands of times.
00:16:10
Lee Hatfield
What happens when you see? What happens when you feel, when you hear? describe that to me describe that and she's talking through all that and then at the end of the interview she goes oh by the way your grandmother's here on your father's side i'm sorry what yeah and it kind of it just kind of throws you and it's like yeah
00:16:23
Wendy M. Kok
Oh,
00:16:26
Wendy M. Kok
wow. Crazy. Yeah. It's like, who are you? I wish I had that an ability. I don't have any of that where I could see them and maybe sense have a sense of it, but I've never seen and into the air thing like that.
00:16:38
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:16:41
Wendy M. Kok
No.
00:16:42
Lee Hatfield
What's your opinion on astral projection and that kind of stuff?
00:16:48
Wendy M. Kok
That's a wild one. I don't know. I mean, I haven't totally closed the door on that. I mean, that's pretty wild. I feel like, I mean, who am I to say that it doesn't exist, right?
00:17:02
Wendy M. Kok
I'm not going to shut down somebody's experience.
00:17:02
Lee Hatfield
OK.
00:17:04
Wendy M. Kok
I think it's quite wild. Didn't the military kind of play around with that a little bit?
00:17:10
Lee Hatfield
They did.
00:17:10
Wendy M. Kok
The Philadelphia Project or Experiment, I think it was called.
00:17:10
Lee Hatfield
They did. You're right.
00:17:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:17:15
Wendy M. Kok
They played around with that. You know, i don't, I don't know. It's very, i don't know. What do you think?
00:17:22
Lee Hatfield
Well, I'm going to tell you a story and you're going to love this story.
00:17:25
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, okay.
00:17:26
Lee Hatfield
And this is somebody that you should get on the podcast as well. So I'm interviewing this girl. She's in California. I'm in Canada, she's one side of the country, I'm the other side of the country. We've never met, she's never been to Canada, and she said that she could astral project.
00:17:45
Lee Hatfield
So went, okay, yeah and this is live, this is live on under the, okay, do it.
00:17:45
Wendy M. Kok
yeah.
00:17:51
Lee Hatfield
So she went, yeah, she said, okay, yeah, sit comfortably, put your feet on the ground. And I went, well, I'm 13 floors up, but I'll i'll do my best. And then she goes, I'm stood next door to some dinosaur figures.
00:18:05
Lee Hatfield
And we have a lot of LEGO because like me and the wife love lega LEGO because it's so therapeutic. And over there, diagonally opposite, so there's no way that you can see it from any reflection.
00:18:13
Wendy M. Kok
yeah
00:18:19
Wendy M. Kok
So she wasn't, she couldn't see it or anything on your screen.
00:18:21
Lee Hatfield
No, there's two dinosaur Lego things. and i'm lie
00:18:26
Wendy M. Kok
That's crazy.
00:18:27
Lee Hatfield
And I'm like, okay, okay, I'll give you that one. So then I said, what's down here in front of the monitor? And she went, i don't want I don't want to sound stupid, but it looks like you've got some toys that are soldiers. And I'll show you what I've got.
00:18:44
Lee Hatfield
I've got some Lego, like...
00:18:46
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, wow.
00:18:47
Lee Hatfield
like Victorian, not Victoria, put Napoleonic war soldiers. And then finally, i said, because i I can see the bathroom from where I am, I went, describe my shower curtain. And we have two shower curtains, one for inside, one for outside.
00:19:02
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:19:02
Lee Hatfield
said to her, what's the inside? She went, it looked like it's polka dot. I went, okay. And it was actually, of it's like water droplets all over it. So
00:19:12
Wendy M. Kok
Okay. Yeah. Oh, okay.
00:19:14
Lee Hatfield
And then, so then I said, what's the outside one?
00:19:14
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:19:17
Lee Hatfield
She went, I don't watch these kinds of movies, but it looks like a castle from Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings. It's actually the castle from Harry Potter on the outside.
00:19:26
Wendy M. Kok
Wow.
00:19:30
Lee Hatfield
it's like with you, with the fact that you interview a lot of people on your show, yeah different like walks of life, there you
00:19:39
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:19:40
Lee Hatfield
Now I'd like you to explain that to me, please.
00:19:43
Wendy M. Kok
That's crazy.
00:19:45
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:45
Wendy M. Kok
That's amazing that you could do that though. That that's amazing. Does she just like pretend like not pretend, but just sort of like project herself.
00:19:49
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:54
Wendy M. Kok
Your, your space.
00:19:54
Lee Hatfield
Well, that's the impression. Yeah. And i'm I'm talking to her like I'm talking to you now. There's no difference in her persona. She doesn't change.
00:20:00
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:20:01
Lee Hatfield
She doesn't close her eyes or anything.
00:20:03
Wendy M. Kok
Wow.
00:20:03
Lee Hatfield
she looks She's just talking to me like I'm talking to you now. And she's like, yeah, there's that. There's things. And it's like, okay. Good.
00:20:11
Wendy M. Kok
That's crazy. I don't know.
00:20:13
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:20:13
Wendy M. Kok
That's, that's an ability. that'd be cool ability to have.
00:20:17
Lee Hatfield
Oh, yeah, 100%. So, yeah, so I did ask her if if she kind of like, yeah, when she knew where to draw the line. So, like, yes.
00:20:27
Wendy M. Kok
Right. So did she seem very confident though?
00:20:28
Lee Hatfield
and she went hundred percent
00:20:30
Wendy M. Kok
She didn't like seem like, wow, that's something.
00:20:33
Lee Hatfield
100%. 100%. Yeah. i I'll pass you her name as well.
00:20:38
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, I would love that. My gosh.
00:20:40
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. So. You had a couple of experiences when you were when you were younger. You got the got your sixth sense. So how did that progress to you becoming, well, you kind of touched on it already about becoming an author, but when did you decide what kind of genre of writing that you wanted to concentrate on?
Author Journey and Storytelling Focus
00:21:07
Wendy M. Kok
I didn't even like entertain that thought at all. I just had this story in me and I thought I am just, it's just gonna, I'm just gonna have it come out. I didn't like, oh, I'm gonna write in this particular genre. I'm gonna have this and in this particular way. I just wrote, you know, I wanted to write the story. I thought it was compelling.
00:21:29
Wendy M. Kok
And then, it started progressing, I wanted people to, you know, experience what it was like on that resort. You know, it was during the 70s and 80s. So completely different from today's world.
00:21:42
Wendy M. Kok
You know, my parents had these wonderful parties and they're, you know, good, wholesome parties with picnics and stuff. And everyone would come into town like if they would get wind that, hey, you know, this fish oil resort is going to have a party that People from in town would come. We would have all people all over the place.
00:22:03
Wendy M. Kok
And we never ran out of food.
00:22:06
Lee Hatfield
so
00:22:07
Wendy M. Kok
And they were just, you know, they were great. they were great hostesses and hosts. And it was just, it with the backdrop of the Northwoods, and then with the eeriness of the paranormal stuff that would happen, I thought, okay, I'm going to write this. i want I want to capture this time.
00:22:24
Wendy M. Kok
And I think I did that. i
00:22:26
Lee Hatfield
so
00:22:27
Wendy M. Kok
I write very kind of atmospheric and I wanted to, I wanted people to keep turning the page. You know, I wanted to make it very enthralling and the best thing they've ever read really. And I think I achieved that. So, and also I, you know, I wanted to have confidence. I didn't, you know, I had it to, I had a bunch of different people read it and, you know, and I was going to stop at that book.
00:22:56
Wendy M. Kok
And I got a small little following from it and they're like, no, no, don't stop. Keep going. So that's why I made it into a series. So yeah, when I wrote the book, I thought it was just going to be one and done. But no, so.
00:23:08
Lee Hatfield
So hope it kind of, know, the description is that you blend romance, paranormal mystery, and then small town suspense.
00:23:18
Wendy M. Kok
Yes.
00:23:19
Lee Hatfield
So how do you kind of blend that all together?
00:23:26
Wendy M. Kok
Well, it's sort of like oh if Stephen King were to stop at a lakeside bar and share a couple of his dark stories, it's kind of so kind of like that.
00:23:31
Lee Hatfield
Thank
00:23:37
Wendy M. Kok
you know Northwood's thriller, I always feel like it's very interesting, the unseen or you know something that can be so peaceful, but on the flip side of that can be the the quite dark.
00:23:53
Wendy M. Kok
And, you know, there's a lot of different things that happen in small towns, too, you know, murder and all that other stuff. And I just thought, you know, I'm going to I'm just going to keep writing and see where it goes. And I'm glad I did the series. I'm glad I didn't stop it. The first book, even though it was quite wasn't easy.
00:24:14
Lee Hatfield
So I'm going to be really philosophical now. It's not very often I can say big words, but I just I just mastered that one. Because of the paranormal nature, do you think you're being led down any particular road with your writing?
00:24:34
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. When I'm writing and I get into the flow, it only takes a few minutes and it just, I don't know where it comes. I can just get flashes of inspiration. I start writing.
00:24:47
Wendy M. Kok
And, you know, when I'm like, when my hand's shaking, like, oh my gosh, this is going be so good. You know, and I can actually feel it. That's like, i don't know. It's very good for the soul. I mean, it's just, it,
00:25:01
Wendy M. Kok
It's got to be coming from, you know, another place. I don't know where I don't know where I get it, but I love it. And but it doesn't happen every day. i tell you that it's not like every single day I write and every single day that I write like three or four pages. That's not the case either. It's either sometimes I'll go weeks without writing and then I'll sit down and I'll write a lot You know, I've had where I've written all night. I've had a couple all night writing parties, you know, just to get, because I didn't want to stop kind of thing, which is a little ridiculous, but. Great.
00:25:43
Lee Hatfield
But if you enjoy doing it and yeah you think that this is the right time to put pen to paper, then you can't stop just because it's like three o'clock in the morning.
00:25:54
Lee Hatfield
yeah You have to go on.
00:25:55
Wendy M. Kok
What's weird is I enjoy doing it, but at the same time, it's like the vein of my existence. Because it's like, it's just, I enjoy doing it, but sometimes it can get, you know, can be very, can be overwhelming.
00:26:01
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:26:09
Wendy M. Kok
And I don't know when to stop, you know, it's like, got to stop. But don't
00:26:14
Lee Hatfield
You never do. you just keep carry it going and going.
00:26:17
Wendy M. Kok
know. Yeah.
00:26:19
Lee Hatfield
Okay. So we can talk about some more of the book, but what I want to talk about is, uh, the podcast.
00:26:28
Wendy M. Kok
Yes.
00:26:28
Lee Hatfield
So, because obviously you interview, okay. I just got a thing on my phone. So this is spam.
00:26:37
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:26:38
Wendy M. Kok
love that I love that. love that.
00:26:41
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, well, my phone's connected to my headset because I walk to work, so I have my music on. So it's a bit just nice.
00:26:46
Wendy M. Kok
Gotcha.
00:26:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, so you talk to a lot of different people from yeah lot of different walks of life. But, yeah, I want to concentrate on the paranormal people that you spoke to. So, number one, I think you kind of mentioned it earlier, but let's go into a bit more detail of how your podcast came about and if you want to share some of the stories that you've you've heard and sort like, i I always find it interesting when I kind of, someone tells me something and I just go, what?
00:27:20
Lee Hatfield
And you just kind of like, okay, you've just told me something so astounding that I've got, I don't know what to say next.
00:27:22
Wendy M. Kok
Right.
00:27:26
Lee Hatfield
So you've got to have a quick second to, yeah, exactly.
00:27:27
Wendy M. Kok
It's like this belief, like what? Yeah.
Starting the Juicy Pear Podcast
00:27:30
Lee Hatfield
So let's talk about your podcast, Juicy Pear Podcast.
00:27:34
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah. So, I started the juicy pair podcast originally, my friend, Sean, it was during COVID and, It was really kind of my baby. I really wanted something.
00:27:46
Wendy M. Kok
was sick of the incessant negativity during that time. It was like like a great big dark cloud just stopped and it would just never go away. And it was always the news was horrible. you know, you go to the store and that was horrible. you know, they were.
00:28:02
Wendy M. Kok
you know giving you directions on what direction you need to what aisle you needed to go down first in the grocery store and i just thought oh my god this the world is gone completely bonkers wanted to find a little bit of joy i wanted to make it fun to be alive so uh really i just so sean and i hosted And we had a bunch of people on the show. i wanted to spotlight creatives, other authors. And then it just kind of branched out from there.
00:28:34
Wendy M. Kok
Shawn, after a few episodes, decided that that wasn't quite her wheelhouse with podcasting. And I said, that's that's fine. you know And that ended am amicably.
00:28:43
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:28:46
Wendy M. Kok
And I kind of liked podcasting more anyway. And she's like, just go ahead you you know just go ahead and do it by yourself. It's fine. and So I did.
00:28:54
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:28:54
Wendy M. Kok
So I just continued on and I kind of gravitated towards the paranormal. I always found that the pretty interesting. The UFO elements is always fascinated me. My mom had seen a UFO when she was younger and in that area in northern Wisconsin.
00:29:14
Wendy M. Kok
And I always found that interesting. so I've had several people on the show that have experienced UFO abduction, which they like to call UFO experience. They don't like to call it abduction.
00:29:28
Wendy M. Kok
And I had them on the show and they kind of, you know, told of what happened. And I just, I will always find that fascinating to me. I mean, why would you put, you purposely put yourself through that? I mean, and you're open to ridicule. You you wouldn't, you know, they want to be famous or they want, no, I don't think that really is the case.
00:29:51
Wendy M. Kok
So I just find just those types of stories very fascinating.
00:29:55
Lee Hatfield
so
00:30:22
Lee Hatfield
So.
00:30:27
Wendy M. Kok
I find that interesting. I've gone to the Mothman conference or whatever they have every year. That is so much fun. i went a couple years ago in West Virginia, Point Pleasant.
00:30:40
Wendy M. Kok
That was a blast. Had people about the mothman on the show. had psychics on the show, near death experiences and DEs. That's always fun.
00:30:54
Wendy M. Kok
Just really, if you've got a fun story, uh, I, I love to have that person on the show. If it has a paranormal element, that's a plus, you know,
00:31:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
Interest in Mothman and Unexplained Phenomena
00:31:04
Lee Hatfield
And from what I recall, the Mothman is in your neck of the woods, a lot with a lot of sightings.
00:31:11
Wendy M. Kok
Chicago Yeah, he's been spotted in the Chicago area around the airports around there. Very fascinating. In fact, if someone's ever seen it or, you know, I wouldn't mind having them on the show just to talk about it because that is, that's crazy.
00:31:28
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and well one thing that I've been trying to do recently is if people are listening, don't take this the wrong way. But Bigfoot and Sasquatch researchers, investigators are all over the place.
00:31:47
Lee Hatfield
load There's loads of them. But when you want to talk about the dog man or the moth man, yeah or yeah a few of the other more lesser known ones there's less people around that you can actually speak to and tracking them down it's like catching fog sometimes it's extremely difficult
00:32:08
Wendy M. Kok
Right. Right. The Michigan dog man is that's a thing up in Northern Michigan. There's a couple of really interesting stories about people that have experienced the dog man while camping.
00:32:20
Wendy M. Kok
No kidding up in the UP area that I'd love to have them on the show as well. I haven't had them on, but I think that would be a fantastic story.
00:32:32
Wendy M. Kok
Right.
00:32:33
Lee Hatfield
I think I have somebody that you could do.
00:32:36
Wendy M. Kok
Cool.
00:32:36
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, i've got I've got somebody that won't pass names over here because other people might find out.
00:32:42
Wendy M. Kok
Right, right, right, right.
00:32:43
Lee Hatfield
So out of all the different subsections of the paranormal, ghosts or UFOs or cryptids, psychics, you know, clairvoyant, all that kind stuff, what would you say is your favourite subject?
00:33:03
Wendy M. Kok
the mothman is number pretty high up there. Another one that's quite interesting too is, and I've, I'm sure you've heard of this is, uh, what is it?
00:33:08
Lee Hatfield
So,
00:33:13
Wendy M. Kok
The four one, one there's stories on it where people are disappearing in state parks all over the U S and under very sketchy circumstances.
00:33:29
Wendy M. Kok
that I find interesting as well, like the One in particular, he was a hunter and he was with like eight, nine other people.
00:33:35
Lee Hatfield
So,
00:33:42
Wendy M. Kok
And they in the his friend behind him said he was just like four or five feet ahead of me. And this weird, weird fog rolled in. And it was like he just, you know, disappeared.
00:33:58
Wendy M. Kok
And, you know, they scoured that woods and they just could not find him. I find that really odd. Like what happened to him? Did he fall into a sinkhole?
00:34:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:34:09
Wendy M. Kok
Did he enter another dimension? on That's, you know, interesting too. You know, people who have claimed that they've stepped into time and then come back. Yeah. But there seems to be a lot of different circumstances like that in the national parks of the United States.
00:34:24
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:34:31
Wendy M. Kok
In particular, what, Yellowstone, there's a couple very strange stories. And I'm like, huh, do I want to go camping out these parks?
00:34:40
Lee Hatfield
a yeah
00:34:41
Wendy M. Kok
I don't know about that. I mean, I've been to the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone and stuff. They're beautiful. But I don't know. and don't know. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable.
00:34:52
Lee Hatfield
So,
00:34:53
Wendy M. Kok
and I know that sounds kind of strange just kind of walking around at night. I surely wouldn't. I don't know.
00:34:59
Lee Hatfield
well, I'm a paranormal investigator. I sit in dark rooms all the time and talk to myself. so
00:35:08
Lee Hatfield
But it's really... fun to talk to these people. Yeah, these guys, because i yeah I'm a country boy from the UK, but I live in a city now.
00:35:21
Lee Hatfield
I'm not a city boy in any way, shape or form. But when you live in the countryside, you get used to the noises that the forest makes, the noises that the animals make. you You get familiar with your surroundings. And all these people, or most of these people that come out with these reported sightings of whichever cryptid we want to talk about and on any particular night, they know damn well that what they're experiencing
00:35:59
Lee Hatfield
is something that's not normal in that particular area.
00:36:04
Wendy M. Kok
Right.
00:36:04
Lee Hatfield
So what is it they're experiencing? Yeah, that's the classic question.
00:36:09
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah. I just think there's things that can't be explained. the West Virginia area, beautiful, but haunting as well. I, you know, I, I really liked it when I went down to the Mothman festival.
00:36:24
Wendy M. Kok
And I could just kind of sense there's that sort of aura of mystery in that area. It's beautiful, rolling hills and things, but I don't know, there's just something there.
00:36:34
Wendy M. Kok
There's just a lot of lore there and I wouldn't be a camping out by myself there, never.
00:36:37
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. didn yeah yeah I I do find that There is too many sightings of, whether it be cryptids, UFOs or whatever, there's too many sightings for it to be like misunderstood.
00:36:59
Lee Hatfield
yeah it's It's something that's normal that people mistake for.
00:37:00
Wendy M. Kok
For
00:37:05
Lee Hatfield
There's too many sightings for that kind of thing, for there not to be something.
00:37:11
Wendy M. Kok
for sure.
00:37:13
Lee Hatfield
But what that something is, we still have to figure out.
00:37:17
Wendy M. Kok
The one thing that gives me pause, and I'm not saying I don't believe leave it, but it's, it's just it's not that it's far fetched, it's just that it's hard for me to wrap my head around is lizard people or whatever. you know I don't know what you what your take is on that.
00:37:32
Wendy M. Kok
you know I've heard a few stories from out west California and it i don't know I don't know what to think about that. I've read a couple stories that was seemed compelling, but in the same token, I don't know.
00:37:47
Wendy M. Kok
were they
00:37:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah. it's that's That's one of those really. But then if you want if you want to flip this coin and this coin's ending up with having more than two sides right now.
00:38:02
Lee Hatfield
When people talk about aliens, they're talking about reptilians as being one of the races. So is that something that they're that they're experiencing or is it a cryptid that looks like a lizard?
00:38:12
Wendy M. Kok
I can see that.
00:38:22
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, I mean, It's possible for sure. What was that? I read the book are communion by Whitney can't think of his last name, but there is a movie about have you seen communion?
00:38:31
Lee Hatfield
I don't think so. and Don't remember that.
00:38:37
Wendy M. Kok
It's really good. It's it's about a family. He's a writer and he has a cabin in upstate. I think it's New York or you know out east. And they go there for the weekend to their cabin.
00:38:50
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, he had quite the experience. Yeah, I'll just say this. He experienced something that was very scary. And, i you know, it I mean, it's he said it's a true story.
00:39:07
Wendy M. Kok
You know, he saw an alien in his house or whatever, and these bright lights. And I guess I don't know, one weekend, he, they brought another couple with them.
00:39:18
Wendy M. Kok
And the couple got so scared. They're like, you know, the next morning they're like, did you see these lights? They were all over the place. And they're like, no, it's the moon. He's like, no, it's not the moon. And they get upset and they leave early because they were scared.
00:39:31
Wendy M. Kok
But yeah, he had a bunch of abduction experiences. Yeah.
00:39:35
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. And it's quite funny in one sense that when people go to me, yeah when you're in a dark room in the middle of the night, do not get scared.
00:39:36
Wendy M. Kok
yeah
00:39:45
Lee Hatfield
It's like, look, 20 years ago, i was running into house fires when everybody else is running out.
00:39:46
Wendy M. Kok
and
00:39:51
Lee Hatfield
A noise in the dark is not is not going to scare me, trust me.
00:39:56
Wendy M. Kok
Well, that's why you got into that field. you must like, you know, to be scared or whatever, right? and You want to kind of, you've got questions. You want to find the answer.
00:40:03
Lee Hatfield
Oh, I'm Yeah, i'm just yeah oh I'm just I'm just like, oh, there's a noise. It's like if you've got a murderer in the kitchen, like in all these movies, and you know the murderer's in your house, you don't go, hello, is there anybody there, do you?
00:40:18
Lee Hatfield
But they all do that.
00:40:20
Wendy M. Kok
They all do it. I don't know. You think they can, but they never do.
00:40:22
Lee Hatfield
It's like, and fun no, yeah, and if you'd watched this movie...
00:40:24
Wendy M. Kok
It's like, you might as well open open up the drawer and get the knife out for them here and just hand it to them. You know, it's like, come on.
00:40:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and that's exactly sort of like, yeah. And it's the same for cryptids or ghosts and spirits. If I hear something, I'm going to oh, let's go to see what that is.
00:40:43
Lee Hatfield
Some people go, nope, nope, nope.
00:40:44
Wendy M. Kok
I would be hiding. I wouldn't be seeing, looking for them, but,
00:40:48
Lee Hatfield
It's like, when where's Wendy gone? Yeah.
00:41:18
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, I'm pretty proud of it it. came out late last year.
00:41:20
Lee Hatfield
What?
00:41:21
Wendy M. Kok
It's the third book in the series. I kind of tried to to make it a standalone where you wouldn't necessarily have to read the first two. But, you know, it's called The Choice and it stems from it all starts out 1968 Memorial Day weekend.
00:41:39
Wendy M. Kok
Because of that event is why this town, the town I grew up in, which I changed the name of the town, why some of these things are acting the way they they are.
00:41:50
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:41:50
Wendy M. Kok
So, yeah.
00:41:51
Lee Hatfield
And it's interesting that you said that you scared yourself because we did an investigation.
00:42:00
Lee Hatfield
It's got to be almost two years ago now. And it was a work colleague who was also an author. I think he was writing either his second or his. And the story that he was writing was on demonology.
00:42:12
Lee Hatfield
And he was saying that whenever he started to write, he would hear things in his basement.
00:42:19
Wendy M. Kok
Oh shoot. Stirring up some stuff.
00:42:21
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah. So he caught me in when he found out that we were investigators. And we're driving down towards his house.
00:42:33
Lee Hatfield
There's a graveyard on one side of the road. There's a cemetery on the other. And when we're pulled into his driveway, his house is kind of in two parts. One part of it was built in 1875.
00:42:45
Lee Hatfield
eighteen seventy five and the other power yeah And the other part was built in like the 1940s.
00:42:48
Wendy M. Kok
Ooh, lot of history.
00:42:53
Lee Hatfield
And he showed us where the basement was, and we we got one of these phone apps that we don't usually use, but we just thought we'd give it a go.
00:43:04
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:43:06
Lee Hatfield
And the first thing it came out with was graveyard, cemetery, 1875, come and find me. come and find me
00:43:17
Wendy M. Kok
Oh my
00:43:17
Lee Hatfield
it my It's like, what? But, yeah, we then look at these kind of things to go, okay, are they listening like some AI devices can, but it wasn't switched on at the time.
00:43:32
Lee Hatfield
So we're a bit dubious, but it's still quite cool. the fact that it yeah We haven't mentioned the fact that there was a cemetery or a graveyard, but it just came straight out with all those kind of things. So the fact that he was actually quite scared, he actually gave up writing that particular story because of what was going on in his basement.
00:43:53
Wendy M. Kok
close to home. Yeah.
00:43:54
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah. And like i even I don't know if he's if he's carried on or if he's finished it now, but it's it's it's so weird. So out of all the people that you've interviewed on the Juicy Pear podcast, what do you have any favourite stories or is there one particular story that really stands out for you to go, wow,
Memorable UFO Experiences
00:44:22
Lee Hatfield
I can't believe that happened?
00:44:22
Wendy M. Kok
yeah, I think we talked about it off camera or yeah, off recording, but I won't say her name, but, I feel like it was when she had a UFO experience, I found her story to be very compelling.
00:44:26
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:44:43
Wendy M. Kok
she described it in such vivid detail and, was. it was, pretty astonishing. And, was just like, wow. was very compelled. won't say who it was, but, UFO story really, that's probably one of my favorite ones.
00:45:02
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:45:04
Wendy M. Kok
like.
00:45:05
Wendy M. Kok
she was right on, just, you know, some of the abilities that these people have is just amazing. You know, She was always fun to have on my show. And I'll give you her name too. I've got a couple people that you probably would like to have on your show as well.
00:45:26
Lee Hatfield
Cool. See?
00:45:27
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah.
00:45:27
Lee Hatfield
And that's it's all about collaborating when you're talking to other podcasters because it's like, you would like this person.
00:45:31
Wendy M. Kok
Oh, for sure.
00:45:34
Lee Hatfield
And okay there was, OK, swap one name for one name. And I remember talking to an author last year. I think she's coming back on in about a month because she keeps, like, I wrote a new book. Can I come back on? Yeah, sure.
00:45:47
Lee Hatfield
Oh, you disappeared. Hello. i look
00:45:49
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, no, it's like, sorry, no, it's like, it says your thing is running low and I'm like, I better plug that I'm not plugged in something, but yeah, we're good.
00:46:01
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, okay. Yeah, and she like i she was she was saying the same thing. i I had to ask her to stop after the 15th name that she gave me. And it's like, wow that's crazy.
00:46:10
Wendy M. Kok
That's cool though.
00:46:11
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it was. And that that kind of helped me.
00:46:14
Wendy M. Kok
That's a good problem to have too many people.
00:46:17
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it was to the point where in July of last year, I had to do two a week for a month just to catch up.
00:46:24
Wendy M. Kok
Wow.
00:46:25
Lee Hatfield
It was ridiculous, but in a good way.
00:46:25
Wendy M. Kok
Okay.
00:46:28
Wendy M. Kok
Good.
Connecting with Wendy and Her Books
00:46:28
Lee Hatfield
So...
00:46:29
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah,
00:46:30
Lee Hatfield
Wendy, we are coming to the end, unfortunately. So if you can tell people where they can buy your books, in fact, if you haven't mentioned one of the books, let's mention the titles. Let people know where you can buy them and where they can find your podcast.
00:46:39
Wendy M. Kok
yeah.
00:46:44
Wendy M. Kok
Thank you so much. First, i just want to thank you so much for having me on the show. It's been so fun talking with you. i just, yeah, it was easy and I love it. I love the paranormal and thank you.
00:46:55
Wendy M. Kok
I appreciate it
00:46:57
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:46:57
Wendy M. Kok
Yeah, so my books, either my first one is called A Grey Resort and they're available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Book Baby Bookshop. You can go wendymcokeauthor.net. My website talks about more in depth about, my books. And so a great resort is the first one. The second one is an awakening.
00:47:22
Wendy M. Kok
And the third one is the choice and the choice just recently came out last year.
00:47:26
Lee Hatfield
What?
00:47:28
Wendy M. Kok
And, they're all available on Amazon Barnes and Noble and on my website. And, Yeah. Did I miss anything? i'm on the show I'm on the socials. My Instagram handle is Wendy Coke 4.
00:47:41
Wendy M. Kok
I always love new readers and love meeting new people. So yeah, I read my books. I love it.
00:47:50
Lee Hatfield
And that's an order. Read Wendy's books. Otherwise, you'll she will hunt you down. Wendy, it's been an absolute pleasure. We've had some good laughs.
00:48:00
Lee Hatfield
And it's i've I've learned some more about the Michigan, Wisconsin area, which I didn't know before. I know where it is, but that's about it. But thank you for your time.
00:48:08
Wendy M. Kok
of course.
00:48:10
Lee Hatfield
We'll definitely be talking again because I think we've got something else lined up. But for now, thank you very much. You have a great rest of the evening.
00:48:19
Wendy M. Kok
Thank you.
00:48:20
Lee Hatfield
Take care. Bye-bye.