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S2 E15 Dr Ann Winsper - Parapsychologist, Ghost Hunter and co-founder of Para-Science
10 Plays1 day ago
Today i am delighted to have with me Dr Anne Winsper. Anne is a Parapsychologist, ghost hunter and co-founder of Para-Science Psychical Research and Investigation.
From premonition experiences as a teenager to earning her Degree and PhD, Ann has been fascinated with the Paranormal and time slips for most of her life. She is now a Council Member with the Society of Psychical Research, and specialises in time slips.
I asked Ann, what are time slips, and how do they occur?
We discussed the differences between a timeslip and a haunting, and Ann spoke about how Bold Street in Liverpool England is a hotspot for time slips.
We then discussed a couple of interesting cases that Ann has investigated, as well as one of Ann's personal experiences in Holland.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Anne Winsper and Paranormal Beginnings
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of SIPA Paranormal Chronicles. to Today i am delighted to have with me Anne Winsper. Anne is a power psychologist, ghost hunter and an expert, hopefully, on time slips. Anne, welcome. Thank you for joining me today.
00:00:33
Ann
Thank you very much for inviting me.
00:00:36
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and we've got two Brits, so if we might have to put subtitles for some of the North Americans.
00:00:40
Ann
Oh, yes. incredible
00:00:43
Lee Hatfield
So, Anne, before we go into the subject of time slips, can you just give us a bit of a background and how you really got first involved with Paranormal for me, please?
00:00:55
Ann
Sure. I'd always been en interested, even as a child, really. I think i there were two things that made me look at it more seriously.
00:01:06
Ann
One was an edition of Reader's Digest, which had an article about Arrigo, the surgeon with the rusty blade.
00:01:16
Ann
He used to do surgery, you know, how they sort of wave their arms about and suddenly they have what appears to be an organ in their hands. And I thought, gosh, that's interesting.
00:01:28
Ann
Then I started collecting the unexplained and then I thought, yeah, I've really got to do something with this.
Academic Pursuits and Research Focus
00:01:35
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:01:35
Ann
I had some premonition experiences as a teenager as well. And that started me off and I started ghost hunting.
00:01:45
Ann
So I started going to conferences. I was very interested in looking at the academic side of it as well as the ghost hunting side. Then I realised that nobody takes a ghost hunter seriously.
00:02:00
Ann
I was always shoved in the corner as though that's just a ghost hunter. So I went to university and did a psychology degree looking at electronic voice phenomena.
00:02:11
Ann
And I thought, this will do it. And they so started saying, oh, have you not got a PhD? So I thought, here we go again. So I went and did a PhD, also looking at electronic voice phenomena. So they tend to listen to me now, which is nice. Obviously, I'm a council member on the Society of Psychical Research. and I'm part of their spontaneous cases committee. I'm actually a bit old for sitting in haunted houses all night nowadays. I'm getting on a bit and I'm a bit creaky, but I still look at paranormal events.
00:02:45
Ann
And one of my big specialties is time slips.
00:02:49
Lee Hatfield
which we're going to get on with in a minute but i've just been distracted by a picture behind you because i'm also a fan
00:02:59
Ann
da fantastic. Yeah, got the TARDIS blueprints behind me.
00:03:02
Lee Hatfield
i'll up it up it yeah up it up until last weekend i've got all my doctor who stuff here but it's now below the computer on the other side so you can't see it but
00:03:15
Ann
I notice I've got the same book as you, the ghost's one.
00:03:18
Lee Hatfield
yes so about I saw that in a shop.
Paranormal Interests and Experiences
00:03:21
Lee Hatfield
I was doing a public event and they wanted they'd got the some cosplayers that were doing the Ghostbusters, but they wanted the real McCoy. So our team got invited with some of our equipment.
00:03:34
Lee Hatfield
And it's a one of these kind of like a junk shop kind of things. And they had a book section and I saw it and I thought, I don't care how much it costs. I want that book.
00:03:45
Lee Hatfield
And because we were there, they said, okay, you can have it for half price. But, yeah, that's my pride in place, that book there.
00:03:52
Ann
Yes, I must have brought mine about. 20 years ago from a books an actual bookshop.
00:03:56
Lee Hatfield
Oh, wow.
00:03:59
Ann
So, yes, it's it's there in amongst all the Harry Prices and and stuff.
00:04:05
Lee Hatfield
Oh, man, now I'm going to come down to your house and take all your Harry Price stuff off you, definitely. Yeah.
00:04:11
Ann
Oh, I've got this this whole bottom shelf in front of me, all six foot of it, is all the old books. So, first edition Phantasms of the Living, first edition Harry Prices, all that kind of stuff.
00:04:23
Lee Hatfield
Oh, wow. Yeah.
00:04:24
Ann
Yeah.
00:04:25
Lee Hatfield
And for those people that don't know, he was the guy that investigated Borley Rectory, correct?
00:04:30
Ann
He was indeed very contentious figure, but very worth reading about.
00:04:35
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, when I when I did my first course on the paranormal and ghosts and hauntings, I had to do a little not a book, essay, for want of a better word.
00:04:50
Lee Hatfield
And it was on something that you grew up with. And I, being from England, Borley Rectory was always on the top of everybody's radar. Okay, burnt down in the 1940s, but it was always that that key haunted location.
00:05:08
Lee Hatfield
But then when I started to go into it, I was really disappointed to find out that there's a lot of hoaxes that were involved, like Harry Price putting pebbles in his pockets and yeah and stuff like that. and I was traumatized. i was so upset because I loved that location. And I was thought, yeah, that'd be something. yeah Because like i said, I grew up with it.
00:05:31
Lee Hatfield
But then to find out that half of it wasn't true, oh man, my world ended. It really did.
00:05:37
Ann
I can make you very jealous. Our group was invited to spend a day and a night in one of the bungalows that was built on the site.
00:05:48
Lee Hatfield
Oh, right wow.
00:05:49
Ann
So we did we did full 24 hours ghost hunting on the site. And we also did a little bit of digging because the bungalow owner said, oh, yeah, we were doing some work to build a wall and we found a load of bricks down there.
00:06:07
Ann
Looked like old bricks from a wall. So we said, can we have a bit of a dig? And they went, yeah, sure, help yourself. So I i may well have an original Bawley brick.
00:06:19
Lee Hatfield
Yes, but when people come out with, I'm going to make you more jealous, I'm just going to hit that stop button and go, nope, that's it. That's it. Everything's over with. So he said that when you were younger and to be fair, there's not, I don't think much age difference between both of us. what, how did you kind of get involved with your first ghost hunting and and that kind of thing?
00:06:46
Ann
There was a local ghost hunting group And I thought, yeah, I'll join them. I want to get on. I'd done sort of, when I say investigations, looking at things, but not actually sitting in people's houses before that. And obviously speaking to people and finding out their experiences where I thought I'll join a ghost group and go and do proper ghost hunts.
Forming Parascience and Investigation Methods
00:07:11
Ann
Then after I'd joined, I realised that there was a lot of shenanigans going on in the group. And then Steve Parsons joined.
00:07:25
Ann
He's another very well-known ghost hunter. And between us, we realised that the group were actually hoaxing a lot of the events.
00:07:33
Lee Hatfield
Oh, wow.
00:07:34
Ann
So we thought, we can do this far better than this. And that's when we formed Parascience and started doing it ourselves. So that's when I really got into Parascience. sitting in haunted buildings.
00:07:48
Ann
In fact, there was one place we must have gone there for a two or three years, spending time there at different times of the day, night, the year. So we don't we take it quite seriously. we don't We don't do a hit and run.
00:08:05
Lee Hatfield
And you have to, because our team, we if we're going to go on an investigation, obviously it's not always possible because you've got these pay-to-play events, as I call them.
00:08:17
Ann
Thank
00:08:18
Lee Hatfield
But if you're going to go to a private residence, You have to do your due diligence. You have to rule out everything that's normal before you start thinking about the paranormal.
00:08:31
Lee Hatfield
So we have like black mold detectors. We have carbon monoxide detectors. we have I've even got like a a carpenter's bubble wall thing to make sure that doors are hung properly.
00:08:45
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, so we all would go through all that kind of technical stuff first. Yeah, i'll obviously we use EMF readers and so such like, but you have to go through all that first to rule out natural phenomena before you can even contemplate.
00:09:03
Lee Hatfield
and Unless you walk in and like things are floating past you as you walk past. Yeah. It's like, okay, this is haunted. We're going to crack straight on it. But you have to roll out the natural before you can think of anything paranormal.
Defining and Exploring Time Slips
00:09:18
Ann
Absolutely. Although your last statement does amuse me because the number of times... We've walked into places and things have happened in front of us while we've got kitten bags and nobody's looking properly.
00:09:33
Ann
And it's like, oh, yes, that will be a ghost that's just walked past.
00:09:38
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and same thing happened to us. and I won't tell you too much about the story right now because it's connected to the reason why you're here. But we were setting up for an investigation and this cabinet, he's got a big TV and this cabinet just creaked open.
00:09:55
Lee Hatfield
And like we'd got no cameras working or anything. And then we spent the next 40 minutes trying to replicate this. the the cabinet door and we couldn't get it to reopen no matter what we did we're banging the side of it we're jumping up and down the floor we could not get it to reopen and it's like okay rule number one guys minute one yeah ever at least someone's got to have a camera going and you wasn't yeah you always learn the hard way don't you so
00:10:21
Ann
Yes. Yes. We learned that lesson as well.
00:10:29
Lee Hatfield
Going back to what you were saying, you mentioned, can't remember how you worded it, but spontaneous. were Were you referring to spontaneous human combustion when when you mentioned that?
00:10:41
Ann
No. Although that was one of the things that absolutely fascinated me when I started looking at it. But no, when I use the word spontaneous cases, I just mean things like ghosts, poltergeists, time slips, just...
00:10:54
Lee Hatfield
OK.
00:10:56
Lee Hatfield
Right. Because it's funny because back in when I lived in the UK, I've i've only been over here for 13 years. There was a magazine coming out. I think it was weekly called The Unexplained.
00:11:11
Lee Hatfield
And I've actually found a link to where you can work reread all those like editions on. la Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:18
Ann
Two flats on the shelves behind me.
00:11:20
Lee Hatfield
yeah Yeah. And spontaneous human combustion was in the first edition. And I thought, oh, I'm going to be experiencing this like every day of my life. and it's It's like the mirror a triangle. yeah It's just like nothing happens. it's so yeah Everything disappears. But I thought it was going to be like something that's really common.
00:11:39
Lee Hatfield
No, I was very much mistaken.
00:11:39
Ann
Yes. Yes, i I did go through a few years of, I'm a bit scared here, just in case I suddenly go up in flames, but...
00:11:49
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:11:50
Ann
what
00:11:51
Lee Hatfield
No, that's exactly it. So let's go along to the reason why you're here. We're going to be talking about time slips.
00:12:00
Ann
Yes.
00:12:00
Lee Hatfield
So for anybody that doesn't know, what is the definition of a time slip?
00:12:08
Ann
For me, it's usually an anomalous experience where someone seems to have moved or travelled into a different historical time. It's usually the past, but it's sometimes the future.
00:12:23
Ann
It's a bit of a general term and it's it's like other paranormal experiences. When you try and pin it down, it gets very difficult to pin it down because there's a bit of a grey area between a haunting and a time slip. So for me, I go by the definition that a haunting is usually a figure or a group of figures, whereas a time slip the scene the actual scenery around the person changes.
00:12:52
Ann
So a ghost might appear as a figure in a location, but in a time slip, the whole location and all the people in it seem to be solid, but from a completely different time.
00:13:03
Ann
People can also interact with figures in a time slip. And there are reports, including one that I investigated, of objects being brought back from these time slips.
00:13:18
Lee Hatfield
I love the the concept of walking down a road or walking down a lane and history basically not well not history changes but your environment changes to something in the past and it's sort of like what can cause that it's something that yeah you could walk down this lane 20 times and nothing happens and then on one occasion everything changes.
Notable Time Slip Cases
00:13:47
Lee Hatfield
So how would you explain the fact that you can go down a lane 20 times, nothing happens, and then on this one occasion, everything changes?
00:14:00
Ann
Well, unfortunately, it's one of the great unknowns, isn't it? What what causes a time slip?
00:14:05
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:14:06
Ann
So what so what what i tend to think and it might not be true is that some of the cases are just hallucinations when i say hallucinations i don't mean somebody's having a mental event it's just something that can happen to any of us our view on reality isn't quite as grounded as we like to think it is. Some people have been to an area and know the area and people are sometimes daydreaming when they go into these events.
00:14:49
Ann
But the fact that people can interact with other people There are reports of people going to shops and buying things. There are reports of people staying overnight in buildings that a few days later aren't there anymore.
00:15:09
Ann
I think it's got to be more physical and we need to start looking into things like parallel universes and that kind of idea.
00:15:20
Ann
Because there's something physical going on.
00:15:23
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:15:23
Ann
It's not just something nebulous. It's physical and there at the time.
00:15:31
Lee Hatfield
That's it. And if yeah even if you've got a vivid imagination, you're not going to be walking down a street, a lane or whatever, interact with somebody from a different time. And like you just said,
00:15:48
Lee Hatfield
purchase things or stay over. That's not really how the mind works to that extent. Yes, you can have a dream. Oh, yeah, when you're asleep, but you tend to forget that as soon as you wake up or within a few minutes of you waking up.
00:16:03
Lee Hatfield
But with time slips, from what I've read, people tend to be really clear in what they've seen, who they've spoke to, what they've done.
00:16:14
Lee Hatfield
So there's got to be more into it than just, oh, somebody was daydreaming or someone's got a vivid imagination.
00:16:23
Ann
Absolutely. i mean, there's there's one case that i investigated very closely. It was part of a really big investigation that included ghosts and poltergeist type phenomena and a saint or somebody who group of people were trying to make a saint. It was a very complicated and fascinating case, but one small part of it, the couple involved,
00:17:03
Ann
were trying to get hold of a printing die. So they found a leaflet with the address of the printers. So they went to the address and it was a bit odd. It was in Liverpool, on the outskirts of Liverpool.
00:17:20
Ann
When they got to the house, the area was under redevelopment. So if there was only this one house left standing. When they got there,
00:17:31
Ann
A man appeared and he said, I've been expecting you. You've come for the printing dyes, which was a bit odd because obviously they hadn't contacted him beforehand. Then he handed over this parcel.
00:17:46
Ann
And they said, thank you very much. And the man had disappeared. So they got back into the car and said that was really strange. But they drove home. And as they drove home, the packaging that was around this printing die started collapsing. You know, like it was really old, like paper just starts disintegrating and stringing.
00:18:08
Ann
disintegrates so on the following Monday the man was back at work and he said to one of his friends oh I was around your area the other day in this particular road and the man laughed at him and said are you seeing things and he started joking with all his workmates saying oh don't talk to him he sees things he went to a house that isn't there So we said, OK, on the way home, I'll get a lift with you and we'll go the same way and I'll show you the house that we went to. And of course, when they got there, there was nothing there. The whole area had been demolished about five years previously.
00:18:45
Lee Hatfield
That's crazy.
00:18:46
Ann
So I've actually held that printing die as well. And something even more peculiar, I've The couple, after the man died, the lady said to us, oh, have you got that printing die? Because I'd like it back. And said, well, we never actually took it, held it in the house, but it was too valuable for us to take. And after the man died, the printing die just vanished. It's never been seen again.
00:19:18
Lee Hatfield
That's ridiculous. right hol
00:19:22
Ann
if if i hadn't been involved and seen it and spoken to this lovely old couple who didn't have a lying bone in their body then i just wouldn't have believed if you told me that story i'd say no it's a load of rubbish he's making it up but i can absolutely guarantee you it's a true story
00:19:31
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:37
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, yeah, exactly. yeah
00:19:42
Lee Hatfield
And you kind of answered that question already, but I'm going to see if we can get a little bit more out of it. You mentioned about the printing die that as they were coming home, deep the wrapping was deteriorating. Has there been other occurrences where people have bought stuff and when they've got it back, it's either yeah in a more disheveled case where it's gone through time? Or is it still as new as what it was when they purchased it from this time slip location?
00:20:19
Ann
It entirely depends. There have been other cases, not ones that I've investigated personally, but other documented ones where people have had things, envelope things looks start to look suddenly really old.
00:20:40
Ann
But then there's other things. I'm just trying... I can never remember this guy's name. Here we go. Ray Allen. Do you remember Ray Allen, the TV entertainer?
00:20:49
Ann
He had a puppet.
00:20:50
Lee Hatfield
What? A very twerk quiz. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:52
Ann
Yeah, that's one.
00:20:53
Lee Hatfield
but Lord Charles, Lord Charles, won't it?
00:20:53
Ann
That's one. Oh, Charles, yes. So he went to a shop. He was on tour and he went to a shop with one of his friends to get some cigarettes, bought the cigarettes, went back to the hotel.
00:21:10
Ann
The next day said, oh, think I need some more cigarettes. I'll just nip to the shop again. And there was no shop there. And he did speak to one of the neighbouring shops and there had been a shop there and the woman who served him fitted the description of the lady who used to work there but was now deceased.
00:21:34
Lee Hatfield
Wow. i just
00:21:35
Ann
Yeah.
00:21:35
Lee Hatfield
ye There's no way that that's vivid imagination. yeah If you're bringing something away from it, It can't be imagination. And I'll i'll jump in by, i' like i said at the beginning, about the story that I've got.
00:21:50
Lee Hatfield
We went to do an investigation at a place called the Braylock Inn in New York State. And it's an old, little old, oldy-worldy hotel. yeah you You walk in there and it's got the wooden beams and all this, and it's a beautiful location.
00:22:07
Lee Hatfield
They've had reports of two rooms being haunted, so we rented both the rooms. And it's got this nice big sweeping staircase to go up to the rooms. And we were talking to the owner and we actually interviewed her.
00:22:20
Lee Hatfield
And she said a few months previous, some people, a couple came walking down the stairs. at the bottom of the stairs, there was a big black door. and this couple said oh there's a black tie a dinner and dance going on they were looking for the owner so oh the owner's probably at the at the event will come back down later but the door was open they could see people in like say you know jacket shirt and tie and they just turned around and went back upstairs came down a few hours later
00:22:57
Lee Hatfield
The door was closed. They saw the owner. And so so they're going like, how is the event? And she goes like, what event? Well, the the dinner and dance that we saw through this black door. It's like this black door has been sealed for like 50 years.
00:23:12
Lee Hatfield
And if you walk a little bit further down the corridor and walk into the dining room, you can actually double back on yourself. And the black door is now part of the wall of the opened up dining room.
00:23:26
Lee Hatfield
but somebody actually saw it open and and an event, and that's happened twice in that location.
00:23:31
Ann
Yeah.
00:23:33
Lee Hatfield
And it's like, yeah, i i want that I want that to happen to me because, like, because I now know what I know, if I feel that that's happening, it's like notebook.
00:23:34
Ann
Fascinating.
00:23:44
Lee Hatfield
Okay, I'm going to start writing stuff down just to see what yeah what I can remember.
00:23:50
Ann
Yeah, i I may have had one myself. We were staying, my husband and I, we were staying in Sertogenbosch in the Netherlands. We'd gone there because it was the birthplace of Hieronymus Bosch, you know, the painter who does all the weird paintings. And they gathered nearly all of his remaining paintings together and they had trails with big statues of figures from the Garden of Earthly Delights and stuff.
00:24:22
Ann
And there was lots and lots of events on. And we'd had we were actually staying just down from Bosch's house on the Town Hall Square. we were right on the main square.
00:24:34
Ann
And we'd had breakfast one day, gone back up to our room, and we were on the top floor of the hotel. And we only had little windows because it was the top floor. But I was sort of peeking out of the window and we were saying, oh, what are we going to do today? Where should we go?
00:24:53
Ann
And I heard the sound of a parade. Now I will do anything for a parade. If I can be in a parade, I will be there in costume. If not, I will go down and watch it. So and then I saw there was a number of side streets and from on the side streets, I saw a parade coming down. and There was people at the front playing musical instruments and there was a banner and there was a crowd of people coming down behind them. And I said to my husband, a parade, there's a parade, I've got to go to the parade. So we ran out of the room into the lift. The lift was there, took us straight down. We ran out of the lift into the square and there was nothing
00:25:34
Ann
I said, well, I don't think they can have moved out of the square in the time it took us to come down because it's a parade.
00:25:37
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:25:41
Ann
They're not running at top speed. And he said, well, maybe you got the wrong street or something. So we looked down all the side streets and there was nothing, absolutely nothing. Now, when I'd been upstairs and I saw it, I put my phone at the window and took a photo.
00:25:59
Ann
And that photo never came out on my phone.
00:26:04
Lee Hatfield
That's very strange. and so How can you explain that? It's weird. So if you watch a TV show and say they probably they they probably more more relate to it as being time travel or yeah they don't kind of refer to them as time slips and you get their kind of the atmosphere changing, it gets foggy or whatever.
00:26:30
Lee Hatfield
Do you find that in the people that you've interviewed that there's been that kind of scenario before they go into their time slip?
Characteristics and Anomalies of Time Slips
00:26:41
Lee Hatfield
Or is it just a case of, you modern time history?
00:26:46
Ann
Again, it entirely depends. on A number of witnesses have described how sounds go really quiet and the light seems to dim.
00:27:00
Ann
And I thought for a while, we're on to something here. This seems to be something that defines a time slip. But then there's been others where people haven't noticed anything at all different. So it entirely depends on the time slip.
00:27:16
Ann
There was one, I really got onto to time slips because there's an area in Liverpool, a street called Bold Street, and we were getting report after report after report of time slips from this one single place. So I'm going to go.
00:27:32
Ann
I was doing a radio show at the time for the BBC, local radio. So we asked for people to phone in with their experiences and we started getting so many. And there was one area at the bottom of the street where it seems to be happening regularly. So one of the typical ones from there, lady had gone out for a lunch, sat down on a bench.
00:27:57
Ann
She described how the lights seemed to go dim and the sounds seemed to go dim but man sat on the bench next to her so they just started chatting like you do with a stranger you're like oh look at the weather and oh aren't there a lot of people that kind of thing and she did say that he appeared to be wearing what seemed to be old-fashioned clothes She had a sandwich and there was a bin right next to her. So she just turned slightly, put a sandwich wrapper in the bin, turned back and he vanished.
00:28:36
Ann
Nowhere to be seen. And the light came back and the sounds came back. So that's one. But then slightly further over in Liverpool, Castle Street, going up towards the town hall, there were two ladies who told me about... they'd gone They didn't know the city at the time, but they'd gone to meet their friend who was working at a solicitor's office. So they asked directions when they got to but to the bottom of the street and they were told just go straight up and turn right. And it was raining so they had a brolly up.
00:29:14
Ann
So they started walking up the street and they said everyone seemed to be dressed in suits and bowler hats and they said gosh this is this is a bit weird.
00:29:24
Lee Hatfield
As do.
00:29:25
Ann
We didn't think people still dress like that, even though it's the business area, but they thought, never mind. So they actually carried on walking up the middle of the road and it was all cobbles.
00:29:36
Ann
They got to the top, turned right, met their friend and went went off for lunch. And they said, oh, it's a bit odd the way people dress nowadays. And the friend, of course, said, don't be stupid, if no one dresses like that. Now, the road they walked up,
00:29:53
Ann
at the time was actually tarmacked road and not only that there was traffic on it there were buses going up and down there were cars and taxis going up and down how did they manage to walk up the middle of a cobbled road without getting run over
00:30:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:30:12
Lee Hatfield
That's weird. So out of all these people that you've interviewed, and we're going to go into some locations, even though you've mentioned Liverpool already, that was going to be my next part.
00:30:24
Ann
Sorry.
00:30:25
Lee Hatfield
it's like Okay, 100 lines, i must not interrupt.
00:30:26
Ann
Yeah.
00:30:28
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:30:29
Ann
I must.
00:30:31
Lee Hatfield
But have you noticed... that people have actually lost time themselves or has there been no time lost?
00:30:41
Lee Hatfield
What's the kind of ratio?
00:30:45
Ann
For those events, there doesn't seem to be any time lost at all. It all seems to happen in real time. However, there different kind of what I still call time slips, where time itself does seem to do odd things.
00:31:06
Ann
But we can we can move on to those, if you like. But for these time slips we've been talking about, everything seems to happen in the time you would expect it to happen.
00:31:16
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:31:16
Ann
It's not like somebody walks onto a street and suddenly reappears. However, I do have a case of that happening.
00:31:26
Lee Hatfield
Quick note to myself, ask about this in a second. yeah So let's go back to your previous sentence about time changing and time stopping. Let's let's elaborate on that.
00:31:41
Ann
So, gosh, where do you want me to start? In people suddenly reappearing or...
00:31:48
Lee Hatfield
You're the expert. hi
00:31:50
Ann
So I call these experiences. There's the one you've made a note of, which I'll tell you about in a minute. But the others are disappearing cars and reappearing people.
00:32:05
Ann
Now, these are things that I think are happening on a day to day basis, but people just aren't noticing them. I think they're happening a lot more often. So the disappearing cars, again, there's certain areas.
00:32:22
Ann
There's one area in America, which I can't remember off the top of my head where it is now, but this has been reported a lot by commercial drivers as well as just domestic drivers. So you'll be driving along.
00:32:39
Ann
Someone will come up behind you, indicate to overtake, pull out to overtake you. You check over your shoulder and they've vanished.
00:32:49
Lee Hatfield
Wow.
00:32:50
Ann
yeah The other one is you're driving down a road and you can see someone coming towards you and then you go round a bend and they vanished. And these seem to be really common.
00:33:03
Ann
I so really think they're happening more often than people realise. And the other one, the reappearing people. So this will be when you're just walking through the shops or down the road and you see someone quite distinctive coming towards you. So you notice them and they walk past.
00:33:23
Ann
And a few minutes later, they come walking towards you again. You think... OK, how did they do that?
00:33:30
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:33:31
Ann
There's no way they could have done that. Now, that I think has happened to me. And I have I did notice it at the time as being really strange. where It was actually somebody on a push bike, one of these middle aged men in Lycra.
00:33:49
Ann
So I was stuck behind him on a country lane. I actually had Steve in the car with me and we were stuck behind him for ages, getting really frustrated. So I know exactly what he looked like from behind. Then as we overtook him, Steve leaned out of the window and shouted something at him, which I was very cross about. I said, don't you ever dare do it again in my car in case somebody reports it. But because he'd stuck his head out the window, he saw the front of the guy as well.
00:34:20
Ann
So we carried on, crossed around about, turned right, went down another country road and he was in front of us again. Now, I know those roads like the back of my hand and there is no way he could have got in front of us.
00:34:35
Ann
So we either had an identical twin who was riding two miles in front of him or something a bit strange happened that day.
00:34:45
Lee Hatfield
Uh, but it's funny how we mentioned earlier that we're both Doctor Who fans because there was a Doctor Who episode that involved a time slip with Christopher Eccleston.
00:34:56
Ann
Yes.
00:34:57
Lee Hatfield
vi When, uh, what's her name? Billy Piper character. Can't remember what, when her father got killed. Yeah, that's it Rose. When her father got killed and that would be the perfect example of a time slip.
00:35:14
Lee Hatfield
sos yeah So yeah you've got actually on TV in front of you of how a time slip would actually interact with with normal life.
00:35:25
Ann
Yes.
00:35:26
Lee Hatfield
But let's go on to some of the locations because you mentioned Bold Street in Liverpool. And if you Google time slips, Bold Street is one of the first ones that always comes up.
00:35:32
Ann
Yes. yes
00:35:39
Lee Hatfield
So why do you think that Bold Street is such a such a important location for time slips, if it if if important is the right word?
Liverpool's Bold Street and Verification Challenges
00:35:52
Ann
There's a few things to unpick here and I've got to be very careful what I say. So the first the first thing is we tried to investigate and we haven't come up with any rational explanation as to why there are more time slips in that particular area.
00:36:11
Ann
We came up with a lot of theories. We came up with the theory that it might be something to do with the Underground Railway. We dismissed that theory, but it got picked up by people on the Internet and people now bandy it round as if it's an actual proper ironclad theory. But it isn't. We looked at it. We dismissed it.
00:36:32
Ann
The other thing that sort of interferes in it is there's a local author who writes about the paranormal, who embellishes.
00:36:46
Ann
Is that a good word? So, yes.
00:36:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, know what you mean.
00:36:50
Ann
So it's sometimes difficult to unpick the fact from the fiction. But there certainly does seem to be one area where I've had more reports
00:37:06
Ann
given to me and that is this particular spot in Bold Street. Now I should say I've been up and down Bold Street hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times every time I go shopping in Liverpool and nothing has ever happened to me and it's a lot more difficult nowadays because people dress how they want to dress now a lot more, which is great, but it means you're far more likely to see a
00:37:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:37:39
Ann
a 1920s character or a 1940s character, particularly walking down the streets. And it could well just be somebody who dress like dresses like that normally.
00:37:50
Ann
I live just outside Chester and that's a nightmare because it's full of Roman centurions and people in hunting gear and there was a whole load of regency ladies there yesterday so every time we walk past one my husband goes time slip i'm fairly sure it isn't okay
00:38:10
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. do Do you go up to them and start pinching them to see if they're real? So one of the places that's not far from me is is Gettysburg in Pennsylvania. When I say not far, it's yeah it's about an eight-hour drive. So, yeah, it's far enough.
00:38:27
Lee Hatfield
But I do find that places like that, they don't just encounter a ghost in the description that we provided earlier.
00:38:39
Lee Hatfield
They do kind of get the environment changing as well. So would you class that as a time slip with the characters involved, or would you just count it as a residual energy where the ghost has brought some of the surroundings with them?
00:39:02
Ann
Generally, i would class that more as a haunting. Obviously, we have very similar in Culloden in Scotland.
00:39:10
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:39:11
Ann
That's an incredible place. As soon as you walk on, you can feel the atmosphere. I took my son when he was 15 and he had his friend with him and they were typical teenagers. They going, oh, don't want to do this. And they walked on the battlefield and went silent and went, this is just something completely different. But so i even though there's an atmosphere and you see a whole scene. It's not.
00:39:46
Ann
Interactive. you're not actually part of it and interacting with those people.
00:39:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:39:51
Ann
So I would class that as a haunting rather than a time slip. I mean, that's only my definition.
00:39:56
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:39:57
Ann
and It's no full argument.
00:39:57
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, for sure. And that's it. And that would make sense because like you say, the time slip definition is, know, most of the time physical interaction with your surroundings rather than just seeing, you a platoon of soldiers or whatever walking past.
00:40:18
Ann
i mean, a lot of the time people don't even know they've had a time slip till later.
00:40:23
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:40:23
Ann
It's always later when they go back somewhere and go, hang on a minute, where's the place I was in last week? And it's just not there any anymore.
00:40:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. But
CCTV and Evidence of Time Slips
00:40:33
Lee Hatfield
somewhere like Bold Street, I've not been to Liverpool, so I can't really say, but I imagine in this day and age, there's a lot a lot of security cameras and, you know, because they're outside a lot of shops nowadays for for safety reasons.
00:40:53
Lee Hatfield
I wonder if someone experiences a time slip on, let's just say bold street, that if it's a personal experience or it's recorded on any of these security cameras.
00:41:13
Ann
At the end of every talk I do, i always say, if you have an experience, tell me straight away so we can get you to get the CCTV.
00:41:23
Ann
Because obviously I can't ask for the CCTV because a GDPR, but the person who's in it can ask for it. So that's that's always been my plea, but we've never managed to get that to happen, unfortunately.
00:41:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:41:40
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, because like, yeah, when you're paranormal investigating and my job over here includes a lot of access control and CCTV cameras and stuff like that. So yeah the footage is absolutely everywhere.
00:41:59
Lee Hatfield
But I think if someone's experiencing a time slip, they're going to be more confused and like, what the hell's going on kind of thing, rather than worried about, oh, I must go and get a camera.
00:42:17
Ann
Yeah, exactly. I mean, some of the people who've spoken to me, they had an experience 50 years ago and they've never told anyone else because they were too afraid that people would just say, you had a breakdown or something.
00:42:32
Ann
So, like you say, pett some people will come straight to you and go, something really weird happened, but a lot of people won't. that
00:42:41
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:42:43
Ann
I think if you have a genuine experience, it's... It's something, it feels quite fundamental, if you understand where it what to mean by that.
00:42:52
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:42:54
Ann
So you your first thought isn't, oh, I'll get proof. It's, I'm just going to try and rationalise this in my brain for a year or so.
00:43:04
Ann
Because it's...
00:43:05
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and it's the same as it if you see a spirit if you or if you if you hear one. I had an experience just before Christmas where I i was at a haunted location and I had felt the sensation of my hand being held.
00:43:20
Lee Hatfield
So your rational head goes, was it cobwebs? Was it yeah a breeze? Was it X, Y, and z But then you also think, well, hang on a minute. yeah Am I going nuts?
00:43:31
Lee Hatfield
Am I...
00:43:32
Ann
Yeah.
00:43:32
Lee Hatfield
yeah But in this day and age, there's more people that are coming out and speaking about it. You're getting more people speaking about UFOs, about Bigfoot yeah and and yeah paranormal experiences. We go to conventions and people go, let me tell you the time when.
00:43:50
Lee Hatfield
So yeah more people are speaking about it now.
UFOs, Lost Time, and Time Anomalies
00:43:55
Lee Hatfield
But there's still in the back of the mind, if you're a rational human being, you're going to go I'm not telling anybody because they're going to put me in a straitjacket.
00:44:05
Ann
Absolutely.
00:44:05
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. So.
00:44:08
Ann
It's funny you should mention UFOs because there may well be some crossover. some Some of the reports aren't of people going somewhere different.
00:44:23
Ann
They're just of them losing time or gaining time. One example, somebody got in touch. he'd He was a commercial truck driver and he stopped.
00:44:41
Ann
It was an overnight stop. He stopped overnight, a stop he knew very well. And there was a... I guess we'd call it a mountain, but over in America, they call them hills because everything over there is bigger than over here.
00:44:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, exactly.
00:44:56
Ann
And there was a trail and he thought, well, I'll go for a walk. It's a nice day. And he walked up, had a cigarette. And then as he was walking down, he met one of the rangers coming up who said, gosh, you've been up there early this morning. And he was like,
00:45:18
Ann
No, I haven't. It's the afternoon. And he'd walked up to the top and walked back down again. But when he walked up, it was the afternoon. And when he walked back down, it was the following morning.
00:45:30
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, how can you answer that?
00:45:32
Ann
And the other one that I did want to tell you, the one that I said made a note make a note of, this was very similar. This was actually on a ghost hunt we did. It was outside at a church and it's a church in the middle of the Cheshire countryside. So there's nothing around, but there's there's tales of the devil carriage coming up the drive and stuff. It's a very unusual place. Every time we've been there, it's felt it's felt like a place out of time.
00:46:06
Ann
It's been there forever.
00:46:08
Ann
a thousand years on the site, there's been a church of some form or another there. And because there's none of the modern day around it, it just feels different.
00:46:24
Ann
But there was been there's been reports of sounds coming from inside the church when it's empty. So we'd decided we'd walk round one side of the church put a it was actually a tape recorder an old tape recorder put the recorder down and started playing and see if it would pick up any of these sounds of music from the church so pressed play on the recorder steve was there he lit a cigarette walked back around the side of the church
00:46:59
Ann
He'd just about finished his cigarette, so it was only a couple of minutes, and it started to rain. Went back round, stopped the tape, got back in the car because there was thunder and lightning and rain and all sorts.
00:47:15
Ann
Then one of the other guys said, well, put the tape in anyway. I want to see if there's any EVP or anything on it. So played the tape.
00:47:26
Ann
And it was just the sounds that you'd expect to hear. There was birds singing and the wind in the trees. It went on for about 20 minutes.
00:47:39
Ann
Right, well, that's really weird because we only recorded for two.
00:47:46
Ann
So... that obviously the tape was examined afterwards and making sure it was the right tape and it wasn't stretched and all the rest of it. But we've never managed to explain why we've recorded 28 minutes of sound when it was only recording for two.
00:48:00
Ann
But at the same church, we had a child with us who was getting a bit fed up being there.
00:48:11
Ann
So she was told, run around the church, see how long it takes you.
00:48:11
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:48:16
Ann
So she ran to that corner of the church and instantaneously reappeared at this corner of the church. It was like... okay that was a bit strange run around the church again and she ran around it again but it took the amount of time you'd expect the second time we said well was there anything a bit odd when you ran around the first time and she went no just ran around the church like okay that was very strange
00:48:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and it's it's not something that you can immediately explain. It's like you said, that was weird.
00:48:56
Lee Hatfield
So
00:48:56
Ann
so one of those things all you can do is file it you can't reproduce it
00:49:01
Lee Hatfield
that's it. And yeah, out of all the investigations we've done, we never categorize, unless we see something literally like floating in the past in front of you and you've got it on video, it's never that was the spirit, that was a ghost. It's always unexplained.
00:49:18
Lee Hatfield
unfortunately that pile's getting bigger and bigger and bigger so out of all the investigations that you've done with regard to time slips apart from the ones we mentioned are there any that really if you get asked the question you what's your favorite or what which one stands out the most do you have any particular that really yeah you are completely flummoxed over or sort of like find interesting
00:49:45
Ann
Yeah, there's one that I still haven't quite got my head round.
Historical Perception and Time Travel
00:49:53
Ann
It's it's another, just sounds so like a normal time slip, but it happens not far from here on the Wirral, which is the other side of the Mersey from Liverpool.
00:50:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:50:05
Ann
And the lady had just moved there and she decided to take her daughter out for a walk in the pushchair and have a look at the surrounding area.
00:50:17
Ann
And she went down a lane and she said it was Cobbled Lane, lots of little cottages down the side. said it was really nice. She went past one house and there was a child who seemed to be wearing quite old fashioned clothes.
00:50:34
Ann
who looked at her a bit strangely and then ran back into the house and she said she could actually feel the heat coming from the house as the door was opened. There was a man standing in his garden who said good morning to her and she said good morning back.
00:50:52
Ann
There was a pile of rubble on the side of the road, like something had collapsed. But it had been there a while. But she said all these beautiful cottages and there were flower beds and flowers. And she only spoke to the man and the girl, I think. Then as they got down to the bottom of the road, there was the five bar gate and beyond the five bar gate was rolling fields. So she decided to turn around and go back home.
00:51:22
Ann
And a couple of months later, her mother came to visit and she said, oh, let's go out for a walk. I had a lovely walk down this old cobbled road. I'll take you there.
00:51:34
Ann
And they went there. And of course, it was a tarmacked road and the cottages weren't there anymore. And when they got to the bottom of the road where the five bar gate had been, it was a full housing estate.
00:51:51
Ann
Now, when I started looking into the history, there had been a windmill on that site. but it had collapsed in a storm and left the pile of rubble on the side of the road.
00:52:06
Ann
However, that was at a different time period to when the cottages were there. So the cottages had been there exactly as she described them, and there had been a windmill where she described this pile of rubble, but they were from different times.
00:52:24
Lee Hatfield
Wow.
00:52:24
Ann
So that one really intrigued me because she was like she almost had a double time slip.
00:52:29
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, that is, yeah, is that that would blow your mind for sure. So while you were telling me that story, something came into my mind.
00:52:42
Lee Hatfield
You've already mentioned that people in our time have interacted with people in the time slip. Have you actually had any occurrences where somebody in the time slip has said to the person that yeah like you're wearing strange clothes or yeah it's it's been kind of like the opposite, the person in the time slips noticing the time traveller, so to speak?
00:53:11
Ann
There's been a few where people have said, gosh, i'm looking a bit odd and the people have looked back at them. Nobody's ever said anything to them, but they've looked back at them sort of a bit.
00:53:24
Ann
oh They look a bit strange. So what's frustrating for me is that I can't find anything in the literature I would expect somewhere, somewhat someone to have written, oh, I had a report from somebody who said they saw these strangely dressed people walking down the street, but I've never found a corresponding account from years ago to match up, which is frustrating.
00:53:54
Ann
But certainly the people in the time slip do seem to be reacting to the people who are having the time slip.
00:54:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:54:03
Lee Hatfield
Interesting. And have you recorded or noticed if there's any similar time periods that occur in the time slip? Or is it random periods of time where one person could be walking through a Roman camp or, you know, there's a different, vast difference in in time periods?
00:54:31
Ann
It's very difficult to tell with time periods because many years ago i tried to do a small replication of Phantasms of the Living. I got quite a lot of answers back, but I've lost them now on an old hard drive, unfortunately.
00:54:48
Ann
But one of the questions was, if you've seen a figure, what period of history were they from? And people are very, very bad recognising the dress of historical people.
00:55:03
Ann
So somebody's wearing a long robe, they're a monk. You know, so... It's very difficult to say if there's a specific time period because people are quite bad at recognising what time period dress is from.
00:55:20
Ann
But they do seem to be mostly within the last 200 years, I'd say.
00:55:27
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:55:29
Ann
Although one of my friends had an experience that I still don't know whether to classify it as a ghost or a time slip. I'm tending more towards ghosts now, but he ended up in the middle of a load of Roman soldiers who were walking down the road.
00:55:46
Ann
okay
00:55:48
Lee Hatfield
So like, OK.
00:55:52
Ann
He said he could actually, he could smell the leather of their armour and he could smell the horses and the breath from the horses.
00:56:03
Ann
He said it was completely interactive.
00:56:07
Lee Hatfield
Wow, that's crazy. And, yeah, it's a similar kind of thing that we've just been talking about where people never see ghosts of dinosaurs, do they? yeah So, Anne, we are coming towards the end, but I do have one more question for you.
00:56:24
Lee Hatfield
Has there been any, apart from Ray Allen, has there been any celebrity time slips of what we're aware of?
00:56:39
Ann
yes, somebody reported one and I can't remember who it was.
00:56:43
Lee Hatfield
Not Ray Allen.
00:56:45
Ann
Not Ray Allen. His was in the newspaper.
00:56:50
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
00:56:52
Ann
I'm sure there was somebody else recently famous who reported one.
00:56:57
Ann
No, I'm going to have to pass on that one. Sorry.
00:57:00
Lee Hatfield
I said, well, I'm getting my own back. I'll call you out right at the very end.
00:57:06
Ann
The thing is, I know that there was one. I remember someone saying to me, oh, did you see such and such saying they had a time slip? And I just cannot for the life of me remember who it was.
00:57:17
Lee Hatfield
You do realize that
00:57:18
Ann
What happens in old age, you know?
00:57:20
Lee Hatfield
yeah realize that as soon as we stop caught recording, you're going to remember this, aren't you?
00:57:26
Ann
Of course I am, of course.
00:57:27
Lee Hatfield
It's that person.
00:57:29
Ann
Damn,
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:57:29
Ann
I wish I'd said that.
00:57:30
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. And it's it's a subject that I love talking about because I'm fascinated with my with my history.
00:57:40
Lee Hatfield
I've got autographs from the Sharp TV series here and behind the screen. But I love my history. And for time slips to be involved with the paranormal, I think it's absolutely fascinating.
00:57:53
Lee Hatfield
But for now, thank you for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure. And if you remember, you must let me know what that person who that person was.
00:58:02
Ann
I will do. Thank you for inviting me.
00:58:05
Lee Hatfield
You're most welcome. you You have a great rest of the day. Take care.
00:58:08
Ann
Thank you.