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SPC S2 E29 Philip Kinsella - Psychic Medium, UFO researcher, and author
30 Plays17 days ago
Tonight, I'm delighted to welcome back Philip Kinsella.
In this mind-blowing episode, Philip takes us back to his extraordinary UFO abduction experience in 1989. He shares chilling details of mysterious entities, unexplained physical after-effects, and how this life-changing encounter led him to question the true nature of the UFO phenomenon.
Philip explains why he believes UFOs may be interdimensional, intimately connected with human consciousness, and closely linked to the wider paranormal. He also recounts his encounters with Grey and reptilian entities, offering his personal perspective on what these beings may represent.
We also discuss government secrecy surrounding UAPs and the future of official disclosure. Our conversation then explores whether information received through Ouija boards may actually be communicated through the subconscious mind rather than by external spirits.
We conclude the episode by discussing Philip's latest book, Hijacked: The Hidden War for the Human Soul, and what readers can expect from this thought-provoking work.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the latest episode of SIPA Paranormal Chronicles. Today, i am talking to a returning guest. We had so much fun last time. This is Philip Kinsella. Philip is a psychic medium, a UFO researcher and author.
00:00:28
Lee Hatfield
Philip, welcome back, my friend. How are you?
00:00:31
Philip Kinsella
I'm very well, Lee, and thank you very much for having me back on board. I'm delighted.
00:00:36
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and as we were just talking about offline, there's a big, big, big reason why I wanted to have you back. But before we talk about that, it's been a bit of a hot week in the UK.
00:00:48
Lee Hatfield
And you you you mentioned in one of your emails that you were melting.
UFO Encounter of 1989
00:00:51
Lee Hatfield
Is that still the case?
00:00:51
Philip Kinsella
Yes. No, today has been an absolute blessing. It's been a cool 24 degrees. There is a wind and i went outside to the back, put my hands down on the concrete and I bless the ground and the Lord. Because let me tell you, let me tell you, and this is, it has been going up to 35 degrees and that is hot. And all week you couldn't do anything. I mean, there was three days of 35, but it's been a very hot six days. And it's miserable. You just sweat. You can't do anything. You can't sleep. You feel irritable. You can't do anything outside or inside. So today i feel so refreshed. And I felt like that scene with the witch and the wizard of Oz when she started to melt. And it's a wonderful feeling, of course.
00:01:38
Lee Hatfield
Well, if its if it's any consolation, we're getting those temperatures over the next week for seven days. But we have something called air conditioning, and it's it's great.
00:01:49
Philip Kinsella
o all alright Our air conditioning is, for me, is sparkling cold water with a bit of juice in it. And I think I must consume so much sparkling water, it's any wonder I haven't exploded. And and the fans have been ongoing. But we don't win we don't normally have that type of weather here. So, you know, it's very, very rare. But but we survived it. We come through the other end.
00:02:11
Lee Hatfield
So you didn't think that you had to go and sit in the fridge for 10 minutes to cool down?
00:02:15
Philip Kinsella
The... The thought did cross my mind, but I don't think I'd get in it. I'm six foot tall.
00:02:21
Lee Hatfield
Well, we have the big American style one, so we could pull everything out and we probably could fit in it quite easily.
00:02:24
Philip Kinsella
oh yeah.
00:02:28
Lee Hatfield
that would be nice. Anyway, let's go back onto the reason why I'm here. The last time you came on the show, we were talking about UFOs and such like, and you just happened to drop in casual conversation about your abduction in 1989.
00:02:47
Philip Kinsella
Yes.
00:02:48
Lee Hatfield
So if we can start at the very beginning of how all this came about, and then we'll discuss the actual abduction itself, if that's okay. Okay.
00:02:58
Philip Kinsella
Yeah, absolutely, Lee. I mean, the the process of of what happened is quite interesting because people call you lifers or life experiencers.
00:03:08
Philip Kinsella
I don't think I'm an experiencer because I never, you know, wanted to have the experience. I'm not a lifelong apoptie anyway. The 1989 event was the only one that I do fully recall, but Kathleen Martin, dear friend, who's the niece of Betty and Barney Hill, has suggested to me and my identical twin brother that she believes that we had previous experiences in the past, and that does seem to be correct, but I will not add or subtract in any way upon what I know and what I don't know. But the 1989 event we happened, and that was in the winter of that period, and we lived in a cul-de-sac in Marsden-Mortena, a village here in England.
00:03:48
Philip Kinsella
in quite a big house. And then, and it was very strange. It's is a little bit long winded to go into because I've gone through it so many times, but I'll just tell you that there were two parts to this. One of them was on a physical level of interaction where I came back from work on the train from Bedford to Millbrook and walked to the mile or so home, walked through the front door, they're all glass, frosted glass doors, through the hall. My brother was in the very large kitchen diner and to the left was the large conservatory. My sister was there and our dog Benji.
00:04:25
Philip Kinsella
So I literally walked through into the hall, got into the kitchen. So when I laid back against the kitchen counter, what the kitchen bar was in front of me. I could see out into the hall with the open door. And of course, where the door I come through, which was all glass, all of it was glass.
00:04:41
Philip Kinsella
And my brother was standing ahead of me and my sister was to my far left and the atmosphere started to change and our dog reacted to it.
00:04:52
Philip Kinsella
And it was very strange because there was this light that seemed to come up from the driveway. And I thought that our mum had finished her, I was 20 then, our mum had finished her shift early and was coming back early. You know, car lights coming up up to the the driveway towards the garage area to the other side of the the property.
00:05:10
Philip Kinsella
But it wasn't because as the light starts getting larger, the bar the dog starts to bark more furiously. And my brother went into a trance and he just looked up to the ceiling and he said, and I remember the word for word what he said, he said, there's going to be an earthquake or grandma's going to die. And he just froze there. And I thought, there's no earthquake and grandma's not dead. She was still alive at that point.
00:05:32
Philip Kinsella
And the light, as I was looking out to the front of the hallway, my brother seemed frozen. It very quickly, the glass seemed to bend like this with the light. And then this small figure came through, came through the glass. It was about three foot tall, dressed entirely in black. It had an enormous helmet on it hit on its head, what I thought was helmet. And as it came through the door, the door returned to normal and it shot into what was then our downstairs study in bedroom. And there was also a shower room next to that because that we we had a study in bedroom down there. Me and my brother shared because were twins.
00:06:08
Philip Kinsella
And all of a sudden, Rodney came out of his so-called trance. And I can't remember what my sister was doing, but it was all very quick. And then the the whatever it was shot from the left of the corridor across the hall up the stairs disappeared. We couldn't find it. So that was the physical part.
Public Reactions and Media Attention
00:06:27
Philip Kinsella
The non-physical part happened to the early hours of the morning where I found myself in the hallway of where this thing had come through, lying on my back, roughly three feet above the the ground and unable to move. So i'm I'm awake, but I can't move. But I feel like I'm being drawn...
00:06:45
Philip Kinsella
by some unknown force through through the glass of the kitchen door. So it's almost as if I've become translucent. And I'm wondering how the hell is that possible? And as my body is being taken slowly through by some unknown force, head first towards the outside of the back garden, we had a big pond there and the patio. And I was just pulled out, I was arched upwards like this.
00:07:10
Philip Kinsella
And I could see in the sky all these UFOs. And the question was there. Well, they're not then that they're real. They're not a figment of anyone's imagination. But there was one object that wasn't moving. And it was a very large disc-shaped, dirty, silver, metal, bronzy-coloured object. And it wasn't lit up, but I could see it.
00:07:32
Philip Kinsella
And as soon as I... clocked it, I felt myself being pulled towards it very quickly, very, very quickly, like being on a roller coaster upwards. And then before I hit it, I blacked out.
00:07:44
Philip Kinsella
And then there was another two parts to that, which was very disturbing through some, you know, a process, a procedure that was carried out. But interestingly enough, and there were three reptilians. And of course, there was some greys present as well, too, and one at the end that I kind of recognized. I'm not going to go into that because it's it's very long winded. But When I eventually found the courage to find a UFO group and talk about my experiences, most of the people didn't understand about the reptilian link.
00:08:18
Philip Kinsella
And let me tell you, when I viewed them, when I was strapped to this bed, naked, hot in this room that wasn't very large, but it looked like a medical center or something like that, I could see light directly ahead to the left.
00:08:33
Philip Kinsella
but where these guys were were directly to my right. And as I clocked them, this intense horror engulfed me because they looked like, I suppose, smaller versions of a T-Rex, I suppose, three of them. They were dark-skinned and they were very formidable. They they just watched. and They were slightly moving side by side in this strange gate, and they had this thick kind of misty-type stuff around them.
00:09:02
Philip Kinsella
But that wasn't the the main problem. The main problem was what they were, what, what obviously they had done or were doing, although they were there because there was a something that they were, you know they they were doing a procedure.
00:09:15
Philip Kinsella
And at that point I i lost it. So when I joined the UFO group and I came forward, you know, cause I thought, my God, I'm going bonkers. They were like, well, what the reptilians? It's only the greys. And I was quite confused.
00:09:32
Philip Kinsella
And then, of course, I was approached by TV companies who got wind of the story, not by myself. I've never approached anyone for media attention. And I thought, oh I'll go on TV and they might understand. Wrong choice, wasn't it?
00:09:46
Philip Kinsella
National TV, it was a live program. Nick Pope was there, who was lovely. And Georgina Bruni, the author of You Can't Tell the People. She's now sadly no longer with us and neither is Nick.
00:09:58
Philip Kinsella
And I know Nick for a while. I always met him at the conventions when were doing talks, conferences. And interestingly enough, I got involved in the Rendlesham case years later.
00:10:09
Philip Kinsella
That's another whole story. But the abduction, when that occurred, and then when I had been kind of like used as a object of ridicule, so to speak, I couldn't believe it. I was not only only being attacked by the media, but I was also being attacked by people on the street, not physically, but emotionally.
00:10:31
Philip Kinsella
you know in other ways. And even when i i wrote a book that Pat Kaplan Publishing Company Limited in England here decides to publish after my first psychic book, Reaching for the Divine, came out in 2007. And I think, believe, Bridging the Cap Between the Psychic and UFO Phenomena came out in 2009. he wanted me to retract the part in the book about the reptilians because his idea was that they did not fit into the ordinary curriculum of ufology.
00:11:02
Philip Kinsella
and But luckily, I had an article published by someone else about the whole event that described this. So no one would say, oh, you've had your book published and these beings have suddenly appeared in your book that you didn't mention before. So I found myself in a bit of a difficult situation here. But Going back very quickly here, there were two parts, one physical where the being came through the door dressed in black, and then the other part was able to go through solid matter.
Speculations on Extraterrestrial Nature
00:11:32
Philip Kinsella
And that puzzled me. And that, of course, then led me for years and years trying to think about this. In 1996, I wrote an article called Spirits in a Material World, which was published by Alien Encounters magazine. They called it revolutionary within its speculation.
00:11:48
Philip Kinsella
because I wanted to gear more into the greys, what they were doing. And I had this idea that they were, and I had it then extracting the real essence of you from this physical domain and bringing you into their domain. And as we know now, dealing with psychic phenomena, conscious studies, near death studies, and of course the the etheric body,
00:12:10
Philip Kinsella
gives me every reason to believe that these beings or whatever they are, are and could possibly be interdimensional in origin. So that was, it that that's always been then an interest to me. So I started to compose and create this model, around the, the hypothesis of what these beings could possibly represent. So, yeah.
00:12:31
Lee Hatfield
I sometimes when I speak to people, i i have no words. This is one of them.
00:12:38
Philip Kinsella
Haha.
00:12:39
Lee Hatfield
but But it's quite interesting because i interviewed Kathleen Marston a few months ago and an absolute sweetheart.
00:12:46
Philip Kinsella
Wow.
00:12:47
Lee Hatfield
She really is.
00:12:48
Philip Kinsella
She's lovely.
00:12:48
Lee Hatfield
And and we we spoke about her uncle and auntie.
00:12:53
Philip Kinsella
Yes.
00:12:54
Lee Hatfield
So going back to the experiences that you encountered, and I won't i won't go into the procedures because obviously that be quite personal, but when you were on the, let's call it a surgical table or whatever you want to call it, what was you observing about your surroundings with regard to the kind of vehicle that you was in?
00:13:20
Philip Kinsella
Yes, that's very interesting. I was on a very hard bed. There were straps to it. So I was strapped down. The legs were strapped. My arms were strapped. I felt like I could move my body, but my neck was hard for me to move, but I could move my head to the left and to the right.
00:13:38
Philip Kinsella
And where I was positioned, looking to my right, there were these fixtures. They looked like they were molded. There was one of them that's like kind of like curved round. I didn't see too much of what was on there, if there was anything on there. The walls were dark, so most of where I was was quite dark. The only light that i remembered seeing was directly to in front of me to my left, and that turned out to be a small corridor when the procedure had completed its course. the main horror was seeing these, what people call reptilians.
00:14:13
Philip Kinsella
And there were some greys as well too, which were, I didn't really, there was nothing threatening to me about them. I know that people say all this stuff, but they just felt to me like they were workers or they were just like androids or, you know, synthetic being no emotion. But these things here, these guys here, they scared the crap out of me. And I'm sorry I have to use that word because when you're met with something that you've never seen before that you believe does not exist, and
Consciousness and Paranormal Phenomena
00:14:43
Philip Kinsella
while your attention is drawn on them,
00:14:47
Philip Kinsella
And all I got back was no empathy, no love, nothing at all. I'm just a piece of meat on a slab. And while this procedure was taking place with the lower instrument that had been placed into the lower abdominal region, I could feel it within my lower abdominal area.
00:15:02
Philip Kinsella
So it felt organic. And of course, at that point, I lost it because I i just couldn't understand what was going on. And of course... m What's interesting is that people will tell you what happened to you and how it was and what it was. And I will say to them, OK, that's fair enough, but I do not know what happened to me that night.
00:15:26
Philip Kinsella
All I can tell you is that the experience itself fitted the classic description of an abduction. And I did not want to then come forward and say, oh I've been abducted by aliens. There was another part, the last part to this when I was ejected from the ship. I mean ejected. There were two greys that led me down, floated me down to the ground. There was another grey waiting for me.
00:15:51
Philip Kinsella
And I have illustrated, that my brother has illustrated this. this this is This is a theme that's been going on for a long time. And I'm still puzzled. And this grey that's standing in front of me is different from the others and the reptilians. And as it's standing there, it seems to be in a one-piece uniform, has knee-length boots.
00:16:09
Philip Kinsella
It has this stupid pointed hat on its head, but its face is more... not it's like a human but gray it had a very pronounced chin and his eyes were slightly not as wide as a grace but kind of like this and its nose was well there was no nose it's like flat with two dots there but it had its arms folded it looked really smart had its arms folded its chest out it looked well built and it was really angry with me it was really really angry with me and i thought you're angry with me
00:16:40
Philip Kinsella
And i know I wanted to punch it. i like I couldn't move because I thought, you are angry with me, with what I've just gone on, with what's happened there. i And when I asked and people said, did you speak in your mind?
00:16:53
Philip Kinsella
Heck, I just spoke to him. and It was like, here, whatever. I thought I need to ask him a question. How the hell am I able to get through locked and bolted doors? How am I able to get through solid matter? And immediately he looked shocked.
00:17:09
Philip Kinsella
like this, like animated, shocked. And then then what he did was he raised his head slowly to the under underneath, it and there was a smaller craft above him. Sounds crazy, right? But he froze and he started to talk in a metallic, incomprehensible language. And as he froze, I then saw myself coming back with my head facing this way and crashing through the doors. Well, not crashing, they didn't smash, but like with such force and then through and then back into my body, I had a nosebleed. And in the morning, my brother found I had the earth triangular marks behind my right ear. There were three marks on my arm. I had profuse nosebleeds to the right nostril. The doctors were going to cauterize it.
00:17:49
Philip Kinsella
And there's another story about that. But we tried to take the the picture on that day, the next day of the right ear with a self-developing Kodak camera. It did not come out. No matter how many times we tried to take the photograph, my brother took it behind the ear.
00:18:06
Philip Kinsella
Now, Pierce Sabak, another, because Pierce Sabak here in England, he's into symbology. And he said something that shocked me. And this is why with any experience, you do not add or subtract. You keep it exactly, you know, you may have your thoughts and then add no.
00:18:22
Philip Kinsella
He said, Philip, what was the grey doing? the the last part of that experience and i said well it froze it looked stunned and looked up and started to talk and and in in an unintelligible rasp of electronic rafts that reminded me of the voice synthesizer we used to have for our was it is it 81 or i think it was 81 with this 16k ram pack we had anyway he said well what did you what was your brother doing
00:18:45
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
00:18:50
Philip Kinsella
that That evening. And of course, he froze and looked up and said, there's going to be an earthquake or grandma's going to die. It's almost as if what I call the alien being Noddy, although he wasn't Noddy, I just call him Noddy in a blighted character.
00:19:03
Philip Kinsella
What Noddy was doing was mimicking what my brother had done or my brother with him. So this gets into some very deep... very uncomfortable territory in terms of what these beings are, what the force behind it is, what it's doing.
00:19:20
Philip Kinsella
But that kind of shocked me because I thought I never saw it, but Pierce back did. He's written another book all about it and other cases with the symbology about the whole thing. So yes, it was very, very disturbing and something I will never forget, I don't think.
00:19:37
Lee Hatfield
i can I can imagine that you wouldn't forget because something like that can obviously be quite traumatic.
00:19:43
Philip Kinsella
Yes.
00:19:44
Lee Hatfield
So was there any kind of communication between you and the alien now to say to say what why they'd picked you or anything like that?
00:19:50
Philip Kinsella
No, nothing at all.
00:19:55
Philip Kinsella
Nothing, absolutely nothing was communicated. The only thing that was communicated to me was when the three large beings, people call them reptilians, disappeared. They just went.
00:20:07
Philip Kinsella
The small gray that appeared more like a cream
Challenges of Alien Disclosure
00:20:09
Philip Kinsella
than a gray, green colored than a gray, when it came out of the area where that light was to my direct left and towards it ordered me to dress and follow it.
00:20:19
Philip Kinsella
So that was it. and And it wanted me off, out. and there was you know And I didn't know how that was to happen. But then what I thought was a wall opened up to a door. I saw the image of this huge tree.
00:20:30
Philip Kinsella
And then, of course, I was out like these two graves were beside me and I was ordered not to look look at them as I was coming down to the ground. But that's when I saw Noddy standing there waiting for me. So like, hang on just a minute. Now, most people will say, oh, come on. You know, when you have an abduction, it's one event. This is a series of events that occurred that were chron that work that operated in chronological order.
00:20:52
Philip Kinsella
But Kathleen Marden said, because years and years ago when I was a kid, I had some very strange experiences as well. and reoccurring dreams one of them kept repeating itself over and over again and when i went on the last dream of that that i had i had it so i was awake but couldn't open my eyes i let the dream sequence play out i'm in this circle of stones old ancient stones and in the middle of this broken tower and in the dream i'm frustrated every time because i've got to get to each stone at a certain sequence in order to gain entry to the tower
00:21:24
Philip Kinsella
And then I'd wait, then then the dream would end. And when I showed the image to my mother, she said to me, well, this is the property Bignall House where we were kids. We lived on on the grounds of a mansion. And my mother was, you know, served the family. And she'd take us past this point every day.
00:21:41
Philip Kinsella
So it seems as though whatever this is, whatever the phenomena is, it seems to follow you. yeah It seems to be, although it may use different guises,
00:21:54
Philip Kinsella
present itself in different themes, I don't know. But this is what led me then, of of course, the other part I have to add in here, the other area of High Strangers, there's been a few more, trust me, was when we saw the UFO with our maternal grandmother when we were age 13, and in the back of there, they had a big house.
00:22:14
Philip Kinsella
We were age 13 at the time in my twin brother, spent all our vacation periods there with them. And there was a silver orb about the size of a football that came with direct intent from the sky and came over ahead. That's also been well documented. And that reminded me years later of the Foo Fighters that were reported in World War II. And and of course, then we had, when I went to Stockwood High School in Luton, when we lived out there for a brief period, the school teachers were amazing. I can tell you with me and my brother, we were bullied quite a lot, but the school teachers, I loved them.
00:22:46
Philip Kinsella
you know, Miss miss Horton and Mr. Charles, who lent us his entire collection of of paranormal encyclopedias that we could take on on our vacation, because he he learned of of our experience, and he was very open to that. And then, of course, we had lots of others like Mr. Watson, our PE teacher and Mr. David Pryor, who really took a shine to me and my brother. And, you know, and and it's just wonderful times. But living through that as a kid, trying to understand it, you were bullied, not the teachers, but people. They would bully you. You've seen a UFO. You're crazy. You're a liar.
00:23:24
Philip Kinsella
You know, so... Now in our day, it's not because you want any form of reprieve from what's happened with these people.
00:23:36
Philip Kinsella
But now look what's happening. Look what's happening in the world now. And my understanding of the UFO, UAP phenomena has never really changed. I never said they come from another planet or they're aliens from another planet, little green men, or for God's sake.
00:23:50
Philip Kinsella
I think we're dealing with something far more complex than that. And that's why the system that we serve are adamant not to reveal this to the public.
00:24:00
Lee Hatfield
And like like you say, yeah since we've talked last, it's probably
Media Influence on UFO Perception
00:24:05
Lee Hatfield
almost about a year ago, like you've got all these documents that have been released and there's so much information coming out now.
00:24:16
Lee Hatfield
that for people to say, well, what you experienced, Philip, did not happen and you're a liar.
00:24:23
Lee Hatfield
There's so much information and so much different examples from intelligent professional people, the pilots and the aircraft and stuff like that.
00:24:32
Philip Kinsella
Oh yeah.
00:24:34
Lee Hatfield
How can you say that something like this does not exist because there's too much evidence?
00:24:39
Philip Kinsella
o
00:24:40
Lee Hatfield
if We might not be able to explain it, but... It's out there and the evidence is getting more and more each day.
00:24:51
Philip Kinsella
yes absolutely and i think you know people are now talking about disclosure well my take on disclosure is not i mean i do love steven spielberg's films i think he is a master this i i love his him and his work and george lucas as well too you know i love their work they are amazing guys you know but i watched disclosure day and I wasn't quite sure of the ending and and I don't think it would happen the way that it was portrayed within the film. I'm not going to do any spoilers here for those good folk who haven't watched the film. It is a very good film. Yeah, it's a very good film. There's a lot got a lot of very interesting aspects in there, I've got to tell you now. But I think disclosure is going to be very difficult
00:25:34
Philip Kinsella
And it it won't be just the way that information is released, as is happening now, into the public domain, because most people would be asking, well, this is is this genuine or is this not? And if we think about it, Lee, for decades, the media cartel has nothing done nothing but... douse the whole subject matter, you know, pooh-pooh-ing it, making it seem ridiculous. So you've educated the public into this belief, and now suddenly you want them to believe that it's all true. No, no, no, no. Those of you, the powers that be at the top, have to learn that you have educated in your own sly way to the general public exactly how you wanted them to see this subject matter
00:26:18
Philip Kinsella
And then come forward and then say, oh, you know, ladies and gentlemen, we may have to backtrack like our government's doing at the moment and has been for a long time and do a yeah U-turn and say, unfortunately, there is some truth to the matter. But my part here that i i'll I'll add in here is, but...
00:26:36
Philip Kinsella
it's far more complex than we think that you can actually take or understand. So I'm all for disclosure, and you have to be very careful when you're involved in these subject matters because not everyone is, you know, dancing to the same tune and certainly not singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of your phology, cryptozoology, life after death, spirituality, please. You know, dear Lord, you know, some people claim they're spiritual when they're anything but.
00:27:06
Philip Kinsella
So it's a bit of a nightmare. But what I've done and what I've always done is I've tried to keep myself working on certain theoretical models, applications. And, you know, like any other good folk out there, good researcher, because, you know, it's all about all of us. It's about you, Lee, about me and many other thousands of hundreds of thousands of people out there who are doing their own research. We all count I'm not up for the stars and stripes and you know the accolades, although I have had some and I'm very honoured, but it's not about, look at me, I want the top, I want it all, I want the Holy Grail. And people may get upset with me, and I know I've been attacked by some people for saying that, but Lee, it's the truth. I will say to them that we are, each and every one of us, part of that disclosure, as well as we are part of that phenomena. It's not unique to one single individual on this planet.
00:28:03
Lee Hatfield
And I've got so many questions right now. It's sort of like if like if i just came if I just came out with them all all at once, you wouldn't understand a word I was saying because a but they'd come out so quick.
00:28:15
Lee Hatfield
So one thing that I do find fascinating is going back, let's just say 10 years as an example, you used to have the greys or the little green men or whatever, and that was it.
00:28:33
Lee Hatfield
But as time has come closer to modern day, there's so many descriptions of so many different types of alien creature, for want of an easy word, that...
00:28:49
Lee Hatfield
If all this was not real, where would all of these descriptions, and some of them are in a yeah a lot of perfect detail, where would these descriptions come from? So something must be put in that kind of information into people's minds for them to be able to describe that.
00:29:10
Philip Kinsella
And you have said it admirably, you know, put into people's minds.
Existential and Spiritual Implications
00:29:15
Philip Kinsella
Now, in my new book, if I dare, dare promote it here, hijacked the hidden wall for the human soul, which deals with the Gnostic cosmology. But also I came up with a theory called the subconscious gateway theory.
00:29:33
Philip Kinsella
And this may possibly theoretically tie in other elements of what we call the supernatural, the paranormal, ufology. Because you're correct. I mean, you have, I've studied, although Paul Sinclair, my good friend Paul Sinclair, is the the master man behind the dogman or werewolf, you know, research, as well if you have a research in Bempton. But you head let take for instance take, for example, the dogman.
00:29:59
Philip Kinsella
Now, I know and have been in touch with Martin Groves, who had a hor horrific experience out there while he was turkey hunting with one of his partners, his officers, because he was a sheriff there.
00:30:13
Philip Kinsella
Their wives had let them go off turkey hunting. The Land Between the Lakes or the Land Between the Rivers, can't remember which one it is now, but one of those. And when when he described the dogman, you know, you have these glowing eyes.
00:30:25
Philip Kinsella
And there's kind of intelligence behind them. People are asking, well, where where are the dogmen? I mean, most people believe that they're they've got a base underground. Some people believe they're genetically modified for military purposes.
00:30:36
Philip Kinsella
And you've got those who understand them to be supernatural in nature. The same for the Sasquatch. You know, sometimes there's mind speak from them. People experience the tall or you know the tall whites.
00:30:48
Philip Kinsella
and the tall greys, the short greys, the reptilians. I mean, my argument is where are they all? Where are they all hanging out? And this is interesting because when you are touched from a young age, I suppose we could say that, I can only speak from experience, the singularity itself is strange.
00:31:08
Philip Kinsella
And the force that's behind it is able to mold itself in, I suppose, any number of of guises, I suppose is the right word. It could be possible that what we're trying to understand is something far deeper and may deal with a lot more of what we represent beyond the physical nature of our coror corporeal nature of reality in terms of spirit, consciousness, the soul, whatever you want to call it.
00:31:34
Philip Kinsella
Because there's another interesting factor. I know someone mentioned this a long time ago, and I will always give credit. I can't remember the name. I will never take credit for something that's not mine. But what was interesting is when Whitley Strieber's book, Communion, came out, I think it was 1987. I think it was around about time.
00:31:52
Philip Kinsella
a lot of people were captivated by the image of the gray that was drawn on the front cover. They seemed to have some kind of spooky feel to it. And then all of a sudden, a lot of people started experiencing these grays. So when you mentioned, and this is this is mentioned in Hijack, with part of that that's only a small part of the subconscious gateway theory, because if we think about it, beyond the conditioning of the conscious mind,
00:32:20
Philip Kinsella
The system that we serve can program that, can infiltrate that, can suppress it. And beyond the conscious mind is the subconscious mind. And my understanding is when you go beyond the subconscious, that leads into the superconscious. Everything is within. So every single thing within creation comes from within and projected without. So it's interesting how when we see these beings that most notably come on a level of not just high strangeness or in varied forms like the dogman or the Sasquatch or the greys or the reptilians, mean, they they will...
00:32:56
Philip Kinsella
come into our world within physicality because they need to reach this dimension in some way. But what's interesting is that all of this is, I believe, in the superconscious state where everything is created. So it's it I think this opens up...
00:33:13
Philip Kinsella
a lot of areas of suppression of why the system wants to invoke this fear upon the populace, wants to control our consciousness, wants to dumb us down, doesn't want us to know anything more than the fact that you are a biological automaton with a cell by data and that you will obey and be taught what we teach you and anything else to do with ufos or psychic phenomena or cryptozoology or life after death must be poo-pooed because that is a threat to the overall control of the system that we serve so this then let open up another area of of uh of kind of like contemplation for me Because, and dare I claim now, well, I have for a very long time, that I'm a goddamn psychic medium. I thought, dear God, there's the man that deals with UFOs and now he's talking to the dead. Whatever reputation I had, I thought would be flushed down the toilet. But I was adamant to find out what all of this was meaning.
00:34:10
Philip Kinsella
And with the psychic component, again, we're dealing with mind. Oh, you know, this person's a psychic. Well, we're all psychic. You've got a brain. It's a transmitter, recorder, and receiver of information. The brain is merely a portal for consciousness, but it has been hijacked and programmed by the system and, put you know, kind of like narrowed within its full frequency of awareness.
00:34:34
Philip Kinsella
And of course, the system that we serve can project through symbology or other means, psychological manipulation, fear, control. They can control what you, to an extent, they want you to see what you're seeing.
00:34:50
Philip Kinsella
So I believe that there are many, many factors here which are quite interesting. And I think we're dealing with elements of a super conscious mindset that can become anything, absolutely anything. And this is why we are having this problem in trying to establish for all these decades where the UFOs are and where the the reptilians are where the greys are life after death and so on and so forth and i have another part i'll just add in very quickly i also suggested that for this energy to come into our realm it needs to construct itself as it comes into our physical domain it has to build itself up in order to have some kind of physicality as it were even if it's temporary temporary and it reminded me a little bit of the thing do you remember that film the thing lee
00:35:41
Lee Hatfield
in the 70s or 80s with, the yeah, on the the Arctic Circle or whatever it was, yeah.
00:35:43
Philip Kinsella
That's right.
00:35:47
Philip Kinsella
That's right. And where where it could replicate or take on the form of something else. And that was that interested interested me all the way back then. So, yeah, there we have it.
00:35:59
Lee Hatfield
For those people that are listening, I'm now going to do the Mind Exploded
00:36:03
Philip Kinsella
ha
00:36:05
Philip Kinsella
You and me both then.
00:36:08
Lee Hatfield
But that's absolutely fascinating yeah that you come out with that. And the reason why I mentioned about thought being put into you or given to you, I was talking to a guy last week who was talking about Ouija boards.
00:36:24
Lee Hatfield
going going off on a bit of a tangent. And that the amount of people that go, oh, you're pushing
Reality and Religious Implications
00:36:31
Lee Hatfield
the planchette and all this. And he literally came out to say, well,
00:36:36
Lee Hatfield
If you're pushing the planchette and there's three or four of you you, must have all got together beforehand to say, I'm going to spell the word Philip or I'm going to spell the word Lee.
00:36:48
Lee Hatfield
But if you're not doing that and one person decides that they want to spell that word, you're going to be pushing against those other the people. So where is that name coming from? It's got to come from somewhere.
00:37:02
Lee Hatfield
And he was saying that it had that he speaks to like a spirit guide. And he goes, well, we're putting that information into your mind.
00:37:13
Lee Hatfield
So your subconscious can then move the planchette. So yes, technically, it is you moving it. But we're guiding you to move it to spell that particular word.
00:37:24
Philip Kinsella
vck That's correct. And there was another instance that we had experimented. We've done everything, I think. Well, not everything, but a lot of things in terms of our pursuit of of truth. And my brother, myself and a friend, Susan, and this also has been registered a long time ago, we had used a Ouija board. And in order to make sure that we weren't being tricked by any one of us,
00:37:45
Philip Kinsella
we had Susan go out of the room and write something on a piece of paper and put it in her back pocket so that no one would know. She was not to use the board, just me and my brother. So when we asked whatever it was where we had the Ouija board in operation, you know, can you spell out the words that Susan has written on a piece of paper for us it spelt out trickery and we said no we want you to prove that you are what you are that you are because my brother and i i think most people know in ufology we don't stand for any nonsense we're very grounded gentlemen we're very open but not gullible
00:38:21
Philip Kinsella
And, will you know, we we want to know. And, you know, with me and my brother on that board, it's spelt out d a r t h D-A-R-T-H, m a u l Darth Darth Maul, or however that was spelt. Because Susan, and then, of course, Susan looks shocked.
00:38:40
Philip Kinsella
She pulled the piece of paper out of her back pocket and it was Darth Maul. So one of the things I did find with that is that, you know, most people, religious people will tell you you're dealing with the devil. Oh, come on. I mean, there are there are opposing forces, positive and negative forces. I mean, it's not a man in a suit with horns, you know, and a pitchfork. But it was interesting because we felt that with the energy with that, it was not...
00:39:06
Philip Kinsella
pandering to what we were really wanting to know. So, you know, this this is this is very interesting, I think, because it's not just through Ouija boards. I think the phenomena can come through any apparatus, I suppose, if it needs to. I'm not saying they're all bad. You know, if you're using it properly, the Ouija board properly, as we understand, then we always considered ourselves to be protected by love and light, so to speak, and that we would be guided and we wouldn't be harmed and we would use it sensibly and not stupidly, asking stupid questions like, you know, that you shouldn't.
00:39:39
Philip Kinsella
But it was an interesting, so I agree that the force itself will use you as the puppet, rather like a medium, as they bring their thoughts through to you. Sometimes they will use you as their puppet. I'm giving a very, very quick example here.
00:39:52
Philip Kinsella
I remembered many long years ago when I started my mediumship with a medium who used to work for cold case work on cold cases for the FBI in America. She was a brilliant medium as well.
00:40:03
Philip Kinsella
And she i was reading for a lady and she came out, young lady, and her father came through. And, you know, I saw her father. I said, oh, i've I've got your father here. And she said, oh, yes, lovely. And I could see this golden Labrador, not giving it away here, golden Labrador sitting next to him. She said, oh, yes, he had a golden Labrador. And then all of a sudden I took my hand and I covered my eyes and I said, but I can't see anything. I can't see anything at all. And she reached over and she said to me, lovely, he was blind.
00:40:30
Philip Kinsella
So you see, what but disturb what was happening was that the energy of that deceased individual had motivated me to put my hand over my eyes. It didn't feel like I was controlled. It just felt like the natural thing to do. So in going back to what you're saying about your friend, absolutely, they will use you as the instrument or the puppet immediately. in order to relay what they need to. So that that is very interesting. So I just wanted to add that in, a remarkable case with Darth Maul, because the film, the new film that was re-released by George Lucas, the new versions, I still like Star Wars Empire and Return of the Jedi. They're my favorite of all time. But term that was why we'd asked that question.
00:41:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, funnily enough, the guy that played Darth Maul, I've met him three or four times.
00:41:18
Philip Kinsella
but
00:41:19
Lee Hatfield
eat it He's another really nice guy too.
00:41:22
Philip Kinsella
They normally are the the the bad ones normally are in the film industry.
00:41:23
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. like so students So just going back a little bit, because I know we went off on a little bit of a tangent, there's a lot of talk nowadays that...
00:41:31
Philip Kinsella
Yes.
00:41:36
Lee Hatfield
They are not, the aliens, so to speak, are not visiting. They was already here and we are the hybrids, but they are also amongst us, but they're either on a different frequency, so we can't see yeah we can't see them in our normal day-to-day life, or they're kind of moving us forward towards a particular scenario that's going play out so what's your thoughts on that philip
00:42:11
Philip Kinsella
Well, Genesis itself, I've always been interested primarily in Genesis about our human evolution. And you can't tell me through religious ideologies that, you know, suddenly Adam and Eve turned up as if baked out of an oven and then suddenly appeared. There had to be some kind of modification involved with that. And I believe, like many other researchers, that what we call gods were perhaps, they call them extraterrestrials. I think they were here before us. And I think looking into the Gnostic cosmology or Gnostic texts, so to speak, texts that were found in Nag Hammadi in 1945, buried in jars, hidden. Going back in the day, I think that the system didn't want this information to come out because within the ordinary world, biblical passages that we have in the Bibles, it's a very plain version of we have to reach out to something or someone. Yet the Gnostics texts describe a completely different story that everything is within and not without.
00:43:05
Philip Kinsella
And yeah Certainly within the connection with these demigods or these fallen angels, I would rather call them, I believe that they modified the human absolutely through very much through varied models. I also believe the Garden Eden was a processing plant and that we had evolved to certain levels.
00:43:29
Philip Kinsella
But there's there's a spiritual war here, I think. And and they're not not all the ETs are bad. I'm just talking about our creators. the The truly shocking part is that the whole of the religious factions would crumble if the truth, I believe, really came out. I think they would literally fall because they would understand that they were following a false doctrine. Now, they will come forward and tell me and that you are wrong, that you're the servant of Satan. I've been i've been told that before by seven-year-old child who allegedly wasn't indoctrinated into the religious beliefs.
00:43:59
Philip Kinsella
oh yes, I'm a servant of Satan. Well, I'll sit down and like have pack of cards with him and talk about him and see what's going on. Have a couple of drinks with him.
00:44:06
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:44:08
Philip Kinsella
But I believe seriously that there is a huge... conspiracy of silence and of covering of the past. And in terms of where they, so-called ETs, want us to go, well, I've had people also ramming down my throat. They're here to help us. They want us to change our ways. Well, they've had many opportunities to do that within our so our human evolution.
00:44:33
Philip Kinsella
And not once has that happened. Every time we seem to advance, we seem to be pushed back. you know because we know that the past has been rewritten. So I'm not so certain or sure that a lot of them are out for our best interests. I think they're here for what they want.
00:44:50
Philip Kinsella
And this leads us back within Gnostic cosmology with regards to the story, which makes more sense to me in the only clear sense with energies, our ability as the human being
00:44:58
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:45:04
Philip Kinsella
to create, to produce the spirit that we have, and that the gods of old didn't seem to have any of them. They were denied that. And this all leads back to the fall of Yauderbothe, who was the immaculate conception from Pistosophia,
00:45:19
Philip Kinsella
who was the aeon that came away from the monad, the godhead. So you can see centralized themes that seem to be kind of near, but the real main emphasis has been discarded and distorted. So it makes first fascinating speculation.
00:45:35
Philip Kinsella
fascinating theoretical content truth is lee that you and i you know we we can scratch our heads and i don't think we'll truly know the truth of it all but i myself personally i think that some of these themes kind of make sense to me and i'm like oh yeah that you know i i as i said i've seen i said i said to you earlier i've seen the other side
00:45:44
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:45:59
Philip Kinsella
And when I saw it, it wasn't just seeing it. I didn't go down a tunnel or a light. And that's another whole department of of debate there. But when I said, because you can dig your own grave, and I think I've done that. I think I've got three of my own graves dug tonight.
00:46:16
Philip Kinsella
But when I saw the other side, let me tell you, it was a shock because I knew it. And it's not just knowing it, it's being a part of something much larger, another version of me that is the real me.
00:46:29
Philip Kinsella
But while I was having that experience, I'm like, well, what am I doing here? And why on am I in a counterfeit version of this world that with that world is the real world. It is the most remarkable thing. I mean, there's so much attached to this.
00:46:44
Philip Kinsella
that fascinates me. And I sometimes fear that I'm running out of time in terms of earth time, in terms of research and and and trying to work things out.
00:46:56
Philip Kinsella
And there's a lot of brilliant people out there, but I've always chipped away and dug for many, many, many, many long years.
00:47:00
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:47:03
Philip Kinsella
And I think like many others that we are close to kind of like revealing something extraordinary and very different to what we have been programmed to believe. And yet, unfortunately, within UFO department, within cryptozoology, life after death, paranormal, and so on and so forth, for some it becomes religious, and they will not sway, they will not change, they will not allow their consciousness to go through process of transmutation or develop or grow. I always have.
00:47:35
Philip Kinsella
And that is dangerous territory when people are starting to tell you how it is and what it is when we're still stretching our heads. I think we've we've come a long way, though, in terms of theoretical content and in what we may be understanding as factual in terms of, especially with UFOs now, UAPs, in what they may represent.
00:47:57
Lee Hatfield
so but I'm right on the fence now because I either want to talk to you forever oh I want Philip, you've just blown my mind again. Please stop it.
00:48:09
Philip Kinsella
oh I am sorry. I think for me, I'm like a kid. I remember this passage from someone that asked C.S. Lewis, Professor Clive Staples Lewis, wonderful author of the Screwtape Letters and Christian scholar. And I'm not a Christian. I don't profess any faith other than, I hate the word spirituality, but nearing towards the true Godhead. But someone asked him when he wrote The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and the Narnia Chronicles, they said, which would you prefer to be? The...
00:48:44
Philip Kinsella
would you prefer to be the magician or the the boy? And he said, oh, no, i would prefer to be the boy caught in the magician's spell because the boy is then encapsulated in magic and wonder.
00:48:55
Philip Kinsella
The magician, it's boring because he knows all the tricks. And I like i thought, you know what? I really like that. i don't I don't think that's the correct way that I've said it, but it's a roundabout way that he would rather be the boy caught in the magician's spell than the magician casting it.
00:49:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:49:09
Philip Kinsella
And I thought, and he, would you believe... i read've I'm very much interested in in scholars and other authors. And one of his biographers, and this is everything here is fact as we as we know it, said that C.S.
00:49:25
Philip Kinsella
Lewis used to have these experiences as a boy of these moments called joy. In fact, what these moments were was like a glimpse of eternity. And then they would diminish. And I'm like, I've had them.
00:49:37
Philip Kinsella
And he was frustrated because he couldn't get to the bottom of what these were. And he called those moments of joy. But he was confounded as to what they actually represented. And this is why I believe that within our consciousness, I couldn't work out why, if we do elect to come down here and incarnate and go through all this, why we have Mindwipe. Because over when I was there,
00:50:01
Philip Kinsella
sharing the space same space at the same time, but that was more real and I knew it. I could deal with that. People say, oh, it's because you're not allowed to remember because your mind won't be able to deal with it. Hogwash, when you're dealing with the mind, it's a a portal for consciousness.
Reflections and Future Projects
00:50:16
Philip Kinsella
It's a transmitter to other dimensions of reality. We know that, especially through near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences. Robert Monroe with his theories as well too and his experiences.
00:50:28
Philip Kinsella
But what I'm saying here is that you can deal with that but and that changes you because you are knowing that the system doesn't want to let up through all of this barrage and, you know, corridors that lead you to dead ends, religion, you know, science, all these things that bring most people to a standstill and say, oh, I i can't believe in that because i'll be i but I'll be made to look a fool and people will reject me. And you think, oh, what a load of hogwash. So,
00:50:56
Philip Kinsella
Basically, here is interesting. I think there's a reason why we're here. But I think, as I've said in my new book, the system has been hijacked for a very long time. And we're seeing elements of that through political warfare,
00:51:11
Philip Kinsella
disruption within the world nothing's ever changed there at all you know and now with the ufo question where the system or those behind it i suppose they're private companies that are in possession of the non-biologics and the extraterrestrial material they are not wanting to give that information out it's like no no you we're going to keep you in the dark that's interesting
00:51:34
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and it's, you if you just switch on your TV and go to the movie channel, there are so many movies about aliens and, you creatures and magic and, you know, the list goes on.
00:51:53
Lee Hatfield
And for the powers that be to say, know, yes, we do have something, but we're not telling you because you can't handle the truth. Come on.
00:52:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, we've we've seen most of it in TV movies. Yeah, the worst case scenario, like, you Independence Day, for example, when they want to come and destroy the world. So like, so, yeah, if it's not as bad as what that's going to be, then why can't you just come out and tell us?
00:52:21
Philip Kinsella
Yes, that's right. I think, to be honest with you, that they must have some prior knowledge for a very long time. Because I do remember seeing a documentary that was allegedly true, where some American, even Angelists, were asked to go and visit some key members from the military personnel America, very high up. And the military told these holy people that they had to prepare their people to explain to them that there are such things as aliens, reptilians, they mentioned.
00:52:55
Philip Kinsella
And UFOs, they are in possession of you know non-biological entities and non biologics and hardware. Now, what do you think that those priests, if I may use a very gentle word for to use for these good men, because, you know, regardless of our differences, I absolutely honour them.
00:53:13
Philip Kinsella
I think what they're doing, if it helps other people with their beliefs, that's absolutely fine with me. Never upset someone's structure belief systems, but we are digging for that truth that they hope they won't see.
00:53:20
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:53:22
Philip Kinsella
And this will happen because if that the government saw that, well, not so much the government, the systems behind it did reveal to the public, the priests will tell their people and their people will say, oh, my God, this is the work of the devil.
00:53:35
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:53:35
Philip Kinsella
I mean, you' you know, you're not going to win because they're already structured within their mindset of how they see their life, how they see their beliefs. So this is going to be very, very complex territory for a lot of people to understand. So I think disclosure will not happen this way. If it is going to happen, if at all, and I use that word, if at all,
00:53:58
Philip Kinsella
it's going to take a lot it's going to have to take for them to come forward and to reveal themselves but even then if they did it on tv because you can't get to every person people going to say that's a man in suit that's cgi you see where this is coming from so unless some kind of magic is going to happen where they actually connect with each and every one of us here and then do something to us to make us aware of that
00:54:11
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, yeah, sure.
00:54:21
Philip Kinsella
then you're going to have a hard time convincing the public that such entities exist. And that was their program from the very beginning. And I'll just quickly point in out here that the wonderful Abby Loeb, you know, the professor and three-eye atlas that came into our solar system, I think it was last year.
00:54:41
Philip Kinsella
Look at all the fuss that happened there. And the NASA feeds that were cut from the Mars rover when it came into close proximity for a clear visual image of it to be given. And then it went but the live feeds were cut.
00:54:53
Philip Kinsella
And then it was almost as if it just vanished. Now, you know, we have satellite technology that's absolutely incredible. We get grainy images from the moon, and you know, for that but we can have the most amazing images of new stars being born.
00:55:09
Philip Kinsella
So I believe that there's a system in place and it's it's no conspiracy from this system that is deliberately intent in covering the human's eyes from any anything that threatens whatever establishment is running the show here. So, you know, I was praying that 3i Atlas would do a yeah U-turn and come here. Heck, a lot of those in the military establishments were running around like headless chickens because that's exactly what they fit. But what happened?
00:55:35
Philip Kinsella
are they fearing? What are they fearing? That if they came here, whoever they are, whatever they are, that their show would be over? that That, you know, that that that's it? Game over for them?
00:55:47
Philip Kinsella
Yeah, I believe that.
00:55:48
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, that's a an interesting point because it's like, yeah, we have a certain amount of control right now.
00:55:48
Philip Kinsella
really do. I believe that.
00:55:57
Lee Hatfield
If some different species just came and went, hi, we're here, yeah it it would completely change the world as we know it.
00:56:03
Philip Kinsella
Yep.
00:56:08
Philip Kinsella
you got it and i yeah and and everyone will be like oh my god you've lied to us yes you have lied to us haven't you oh but we go but we we can justify that but what's really nasty about this whole thing what's really really nasty it's like in politics you'll never get to the one person or whoever they are behind all of this you'll never get to them and so this shows you in the shadow governments i call them that this is their main operation to silence or to, let's just put it this way,
00:56:08
Lee Hatfield
One hundred.
00:56:42
Philip Kinsella
contain those if they speak too much or they bring too much out in the public domain and the people need to ask if they believe that a lot of this phenomena is love and light and i'm not saying that all of it isn't but the majority of it does not seem to be on that level why do they secrete themselves in the shadows why do not they reveal themselves to us now why haven't they helped us with our the state of our planet and going back people say oh they have well Where is the evidence? It's true to say that we progressed as a species, that we were very advanced, but then it's almost as if the system would collapsed or it wanted us to collapse because we were getting too smart and then sent us back into the dark ages again.
00:57:21
Philip Kinsella
So, you know, there's a lot of questions that need to be asked. And not primarily all dancing around with the greys on the moon or something like that. I think, you know, seriously, you know, getting to the heart of what's really behind this is what we're we're up against. And this also takes into consideration those other disturbing elements that I won't mention here about, you know, that's found around certain paranormal UFO sites.
00:57:48
Philip Kinsella
and which people tend to know just you know pass away as not mere nothing so yes I think we've got a fight on our hands Lee I really do
00:57:57
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it's it's a difficult... I wouldn't say it's a difficult time to be in. It's an... unsure interesting time to be in because we don't know the truth will we ever find it or be given it maybe maybe not but right now we're just being given a few crumbs every now and then just just to keep that hunger at bay and yeah it's yeah if if the things did come out what they say is true yeah i think society would kind of crumble to a certain extent because you've got those people that
00:58:09
Philip Kinsella
no
00:58:36
Lee Hatfield
want it to be true and have so many questions. And then you have certain people going, no, I'm not putting up with this. And then just cut the the shotgun and get ready to go hunting.
00:58:48
Philip Kinsella
Yeah, I will say to you, though, you know, i just want, like you, the truth, the holy grail of what all of this means about what we are, what we represent, where we come from, the creation process, the interesting aspect of interdimensional communication, not only with UFOs or UAPs and aliens, but those other phenomena that grace our planet. and also about the sovereignty of what we represent going beyond that physical nature of reality. When you lose someone, when you lose those you love, there's something that changes in you. Like, you know, just taking one example, and it's like, it's in here, it's in here, right? This is not just here that you're seeing, but in here, that changes you.
00:59:31
Philip Kinsella
And I think that is the most glorious thing, because what I saw over there There's no words because you can't find them. And it's like that is like waking up. So I believe that we're asleep and I believe that it's time for us to awaken to the lies, the deception and the control that's been implemented by these evil, evil, corrupt.
00:59:55
Philip Kinsella
wouldn't even call them humans. I don't think they perhaps are. i mean, what kind of human would would do that to other people? I don't know.
01:00:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and like you say, and that's an interesting point. And, yeah, we are coming to close towards the end, but I've still got so many, so many questions. We have to have to do a part three, Philip.
01:00:13
Lee Hatfield
You know we are. I was speaking to the same guy who was talking about Ouija boards, and I'm going off on a tangent again.
01:00:19
Philip Kinsella
Oh, yes.
01:00:21
Lee Hatfield
And he was talking to a spirit that says that we have certain a amount of of reincarnations.
01:00:33
Lee Hatfield
We have only got like, yeah.
01:00:33
Philip Kinsella
Oh, God help us. god help us
01:00:37
Lee Hatfield
And yeah, he actually said, well, what number am I on? And I'm on number six kind of thing. So the fact what you've been talking about and the fact that you've said that you've kind of been to the other side and you wanted to stay there, what's your kind of concept on reincarnation?
01:00:49
Philip Kinsella
Yes.
01:00:54
Philip Kinsella
I don't know. And, you know, i've I've read it, looked into it. I don't know what happens, how that process is achieved. And I did do some near-death studies in The Eternal Avatar, the book that came out from Brandon Thomas. He's of Expanding Reality in America. and called the eternal avatar.
01:01:11
Philip Kinsella
And there was a case with a guy who had a life between life session. In one life, he was a doctor of medicines, of herbs. He had the perfect life, perfect family, perfect children. And he he was on his deathbed dying.
01:01:25
Philip Kinsella
When he went over to the other side, he saw this council of of souls. And they were kind of pushing him to go back to earth. You've got to push, you've to go because earth is coming into a great time. They'll need your knowledge. So he came back onto the earth plane and he was a patient, one of the patients in Auschwitz. So how can you go from progression from, and just think about this, from being a doctor of medicine and having the perfect life and then coming back and then being a patient yourself. Now, people now the the good friends didn't want to really well understand that part, but I'm like, hang on just a minute. That doesn't make any sense to me. So, you know, I think that there's a lot more that we could talk about some point in the future with regards to the reincarnation, reincarnation process. I don't know how that's done, but the warnings as well that most other cultures have drawn towards those parallels of the reincarnation process.
01:02:20
Philip Kinsella
implementation itself so that's so that's something else i've been looking into quite interesting so i just hope when i get back over there i find the right way to get back because i know i want to get out of here i'm out of here man if it's like that was like the real world that's like oh my god every form of potentiality is linked there or not here i want to get back there again
01:02:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:02:40
Lee Hatfield
See, and that that would have been absolutely perfect if if there were just like a a cloud of smoke and you disappeared. And i was there talking to myself. It's like, wow.
01:02:48
Philip Kinsella
Oh, people will think me cynical.
01:02:49
Lee Hatfield
i Yeah. Well, perfect.
01:02:52
Philip Kinsella
Thank
01:02:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Perfect crescendo. Philip, it it's been an absolute pleasure. I'd like to say that I've learned so much, but you've actually blown my mind yet again.
01:02:59
Philip Kinsella
you.
01:03:03
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:03:04
Philip Kinsella
Well, i I blow mine every time. I always joke. And you're not you i do have a wicked sense of humor. I'll say here quickly. And people like that, you can't say things like that.
01:03:16
Philip Kinsella
I've got a sense of humor, right? That's a human part of me. I said, if you want to see where I am in a couple of years' time, I'll be in a mental institute. So, you know, I'll be i'll be fine. Don't worry about it. I'll be happy there. As long as I've got a a word processor or a computer and you know and my my vape, I'll be happy.
01:03:31
Philip Kinsella
So there we are. That's me, all human. None of this, you I am grounded like anyone else. I'm a human like anyone else. I have my faults. I'm not perfect. I may be wrong in some areas, but I'm i'm trying to hold things together with here and dealing with the stuff that we're linking with. So that's that's that's really interesting and fascinating. And remember, you're just as important too.
01:03:51
Lee Hatfield
i will I will tell the wife that. She might disagree, but I will definitely tell her that. So just before we go, Philip, it you mentioned Hijacked, which is your new book. but you've got something else in the pipeline as well that you want to talk about or do you want to leave it for now?
01:04:06
Philip Kinsella
Yes, no, I am actually, I've just released Hijacked. I didn't go through an ordinary publisher with this because I wanted more control of it. So it's Hijacked, The Hidden War for the Human Soul as ebook and paperback. And that's that's a beautiful, I love this book, it's lovely. And my new book, I i don't have a title. It's about past lives, parallel lives.
01:04:24
Philip Kinsella
time dilations the other side. So I'm working on that now. So that's going to take about year before that gets finished. But I'm really grateful to you, Lee. Thank you so much for having me on board. It's been wonderful. I love it.
01:04:36
Lee Hatfield
Me too. Like I say, I was so looking forward to talking to you again because I knew that you'd blow my mind. And we we'll definitely have you back when when the new book comes out so we can talk about the conversation that we kind of finished with and we'll you'll just blow my mind again. I know i know you will.
01:04:54
Lee Hatfield
But my friend, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure. As I've said, you have a great rest of the day and hopefully England will win the World Cup, but we never know.
01:05:04
Philip Kinsella
Well, like like I can assure you of one thing. There'll be a lot lot of angry people if they don't. God bless.
01:05:09
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, that's very true.
01:05:09
Philip Kinsella
Thank you very much, Lee. God bless.
01:05:11
Lee Hatfield
You're welcome.
01:05:11
Philip Kinsella
Thank you.
01:05:11
Lee Hatfield
Take care, my friend. Bye-bye.
01:05:13
Philip Kinsella
Bye-bye.