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Season 2- Episode 32- Well Done Kiwis (Super Rugby Aotearoa Week 1)
30 Plays5 years ago
Back into the swing of things, you can expect to be annoyed by us on a weekly basis for a little while, fun right? On this episode of TFRY, we have a look at some player movements and talk about a chunky former fly-half affirming the suspicions that Sam Burgess divulged in the previous week. We have another quick talk about the potential World Rugby Calendar and of course we cover the bases on the opening weekend down in New Zealand. Also, you may have herd of quarterbacks being ranked in tiers, we decide, why can't we do that with some of the world's best number 9's. All this, the usual banter and shenanigans from your favorite Stateside rugby bums.
Ask us questions via Twitter: Jarrod- jdyke8man & Ben- admrablsnackbar. Send us your thoughts for the show and questions for upcoming shows via e-mail fantasyrugbypodcast@gmail.com. Of course we welcome feedback via e-mail, twitter or by rating/reviewing the pod on Apple Podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:08
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome back. It is the Fancy Rugby Games. My name's Jared Dyke. I'm Ben Glauser. Hey, we had rugby this weekend in case you forgot. I was so excited. Live rugby with the crowd. Yes, I know. Real cheering, not piped in. Yeah, bite me, Fox Sports. Yeah, that was awesome.
00:00:25
Speaker
Oh man, I love that. And what a representation of rugby it was too. It's not even that there was rugby, it was excellent. There's good rugby too, yeah, totally. Yeah, that made me smile, that's for sure. Couldn't smile bigger.
00:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, well, yeah, we both get a little bitter smiles on both our faces. Yeah, that's all right. I'll take it. Nothing's going to make me mad. I think we, we kind of have, have, I think I settled on the right word this weekend.
Rugby as an Exhibition Sport
00:00:56
Speaker
It finally took no, but it's an exhibition. Like this is just an exhibition. I mean, not so much this one, definitely the, uh, the rugby Australia. I guess we'll get to that.
00:01:04
Speaker
But yeah, what's coming with there? We'll go to that one in a second. Yeah, like definitely. But it was also interesting because they're playing with the enforcement of the rules. Both matches had a significant number of penalties because they're asking players to do some different things. But yeah, so it's kind of like they're testing things out. I like it. Yeah, we'll talk and we'll definitely get into that deeper for sure. Yeah. How's your beer?
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, so is mine. Let's solve that. Obviously, if you haven't figured it out yet, we are on all the favorite places to find your podcasts. Google Play, Spotify, Apple Pod. You're so inclined to listen to it on YouTube because you don't want to use any of those other methods. We're there too.
00:01:53
Speaker
And our live pod's still up there, too. Oh, cool. So that recording's up there for whatever that... Oh, it's a fan favorite? I notice you're still going with the pouring method, even while we're separate, even in isolation.
00:02:12
Speaker
I can't I can't I can't lose that that practice yeah I'm gonna suck when we get back to life yeah just been just been trying to keep the habit going you know
Acknowledgments and Support
00:02:32
Speaker
Obviously, as always, we want to say thank you to our friends at both, first of all, George, the fancy rugby geek. He's the man. He's always got some good stuff. He's always sniffing out what's going on with fancy rugby as well.
00:02:46
Speaker
Obviously, we found out this past weekend that FRD did not get a competition together because it really just didn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah, just wasn't gonna happen. And then the rugby mat, the rugby magazine might actually have been an okay one though. So it's too bad that they couldn't get any, they're super rugby off the ground. So those of you that are looking for fancy rugby stuff out there, pay attention to these guys next time, please. But yeah, they take care of us. A little more love for them. And we love them. So yeah.
00:03:15
Speaker
and the guys over there do a good job.
Support for Social Issues
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah. As we spoke of last week, the fancy Ruby Inc supports wholeheartedly Black Lives Matter. This is not a competition.
00:03:30
Speaker
No, that shit. I don't want to hear it. Okay. That also includes proper attribution of the subject of a photo. If you're a newspaper or some sort of BBC, what are you doing? Oh, yeah.
00:03:45
Speaker
That's so bad. That was so bad. I saw someone say they're freaking Curry twins and they never get it wrong. Yeah, that's bad. If you can tell Tom and Ben Curry apart, then you should be able to tell Ellis Genshin and Lewis Loveland apart. Come on, man. That's so shameful. And I'm starting to see other people are posting other
00:04:09
Speaker
Other instances. Yeah. And it's just like, guys, come on. Come on. Get it right. How is it? Oh, your finger up. And that's not just to point that finger over there. That happens plenty in the US, too. No doubt. It's just that's the culture. It's like, oh, whatever. Yeah, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't be right. Don't be first. Come on, guys. Let's go. Let's get with it.
Player Movements and Transfers
00:04:33
Speaker
We have a little bit of player movement that we hadn't recapped yet.
00:04:39
Speaker
laws going over to France for a year after signing his extension at Saracens. So that'll be interesting. Yeah. He'll do well at Montpellier. Yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
they'll get him playing a little bit more open, get him maybe a little bit used to more expensive rugby than playing it safe. Yeah, there's definitely no, there definitely won't be any structure involved. Yeah. Not over there. So get ready, just go whenever, whenever you get the ball on your hands. That's like, that's really his missing piece. He's not, he's, he's good when you give him like a clear job to do. But all of a sudden it's a little bit razzle dazzle and he's kind of, that's not his, that's just not his game. So hopefully maybe he can learn from this.
00:05:19
Speaker
Right.
Unified World Rugby Calendar Debate
00:05:21
Speaker
We have the world. So today was supposed to be a meeting. I don't know if any notes have come out of it yet or if anything has been talked about yet. It was supposed to be a meeting about potentially putting together a world rugby calendar. Talked about it a little bit last week. You just wanted to kind of revisit it. And you know, this is somebody, I was listening to House of Rugby and Tyndale made a really good point.
00:05:41
Speaker
this is a chance for rfu and premiership to get on the same page so that they can make you know you look at the two the two countries that i think about the top my head that you know really have their shit together in terms of you know player players being paid well enough and also one stay home in our island in new zealand
00:06:03
Speaker
They both want, they both, and yes, you have to, according to their selection for these, you have to be playing in those countries and for those teams, but it's a dual contract. So they have to, RFU and promotion will never have dual contracts, but they have to work out something as close as possible in order to see them both succeed. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, it's just a good opportunity to get everything,
00:06:29
Speaker
Going at once and to get those breaks though. I think that was the big one that maybe we didn't emphasize enough last week to get those international breaks where you can get everybody to go to play for their international teams too, like I would love to have For the arc. I would love to have aj and tt and you know, all those guys available for every game there You know rumin to Haas like all those guys. Yeah, because that way they can actually you know, bring what they have
00:06:56
Speaker
learn and what they've been developed to do back to the US squad more than once every four years.
00:07:06
Speaker
at least a lot more regularly than that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And getting them to play more together regularly is only going to help these clubs and these squads. So, you know, you want to get some fresh blood into these knockout stages, which we're all begging for, because right now, you know, Japan just broke through, thankfully, but they had to do some pretty extreme stuff to make that happen. If you ever looked at Squidge's video about what the Japanese team did,
00:07:32
Speaker
It's very interesting. Go go have a look at it. Maybe we can get squidge on here one day. That'd be awesome That'd be I'd love to hear maybe like a year ago. That would have been really easy Yeah, not anymore. He's a tough cat now Dude probably cost money Can't say I blame him. Oh, so yeah there was that and then the I Don't know if you if you had anything additional on the world rugby calendar um
00:08:01
Speaker
not so much for now. I think that they need to get the, the, uh, the leaders, I guess of world of the world, different world would be, you know, unions and whatnot together with the NFL and, and like, and I mean, like as a, as a learning experience, like what did you guys do to, to improve your base from where they were?
Rugby vs NFL: Growth Strategies
00:08:23
Speaker
Cause like there's a, you know, the, the,
00:08:27
Speaker
There was a hesitance on the part of a lot of NFL owners to give up something to make the NFL great. And eventually the NFL was able to convince them of that and it worked out. That had that similar aspect has to come into
00:08:43
Speaker
the, the different geographical unions, especially if you, um, like you need to give up some things and let the game grow. And it's like to look at the longterm benefit. Yeah. Yes. If you might not get as much in the short term, but over the long haul, it's going to make the product sustainable, which is really, everybody's talking about rugby has to be sustainable. That's the way it's not sustainable when
00:09:08
Speaker
there's higher resources allocated to specific teams. It's gotta go, it's gotta be distributed more equally and it's gotta be like develop the game and make it. Yes, you won't, maybe England won't be in the top, you know, maybe they won't make the knockout stage one year because other teams are good. Not because, right, not because they're like, they're losing out. It's that, you know, yeah, that other teams are good enough to make it.
00:09:37
Speaker
and earn it on their own work, but they need the resources to do that work. Absolutely. They do. They do. They do. So hopefully everybody can play nice for a little while and then let it take and we can see what kind of goodness comes out of it.
00:09:56
Speaker
Let that one marinate. But speaking of New England not making a knockout stage, sounds like Andy Good has echoed some of the same things that Sam Burgess has brought up.
00:10:10
Speaker
I am with Mike Ford. So, I mean, all I can say is if he's saying it and he's saying... I'm genuinely shocked that Goody said that. I have such a fucking love-hate relationship with him. A lot of us do. And this kind of reminds you of why there was definitely a lot of, like, Goody shut the fuck up, like coming the last couple of months to the point where I have kind of not bothered to keep up with the pod because I'm just like,
00:10:40
Speaker
I don't really want to hear him right now. A lot of people. Yeah. And so I think maybe that's involved in why he's saying it, but at the same time, it's big. He's also one of the guys who's like, wouldn't keep it mom and not air dirty laundry.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, but if he's saying that then it says a lot. Yeah completely. So it says way more than people think so. Yeah, it's I think they're so needless to say there's something to Mike Ford and Sam Burgess and all the things that were talked about on that house rugby podcast now I would I would mind hearing the Ford's side of it and then just comparing notes, but
Super Rugby Aotearoa Overview
00:11:22
Speaker
I'm good. I've, I've, I've, I've, I'm kind of done with the Fords. I mean, I've come to my, I've come to the conclusion I'm going to, but if I, if they were to do it, I'd listen, but Oh, I'd probably listen. I'm just saying to my, I've come to my answer. Yeah. Like I, um, there's a re there's, there's, there is a reason why George Ford is a starting 10 for England and it's not because he's the best fly half in England. So what the fuck?
00:11:50
Speaker
So that that's that's my that Yeah, that's my issue with it and so i'm kind of like yeah i'm good if I never see him again Like I right this last world cup and then especially the six nations i'm like, you know i'm done Go away. There's a lot of there are a lot of errors that he made especially in that first game against france
00:12:08
Speaker
Yep, yep, yep. So yeah, no surprise to anybody here. All right, let's talk about the actual rugby on the field since we finally had some. Super Rugby Ateroa. I hope I said that right. Yeah, Ateroa. Yeah, nice. All right, I'm not a complete helmet. So
00:12:29
Speaker
Game one, Forsyth Bar, it was rocking down in Dunedin, and we got the match we were hoping for in terms of entertainment value. That is for sure. All the way around. All the way. Right down to the wire. I mean, really, it's unfair.
00:12:49
Speaker
to, it's almost obscene to air a young man fucking his own father on international television. Very black mirror. Oh, man. Oh, man. Yeah, I was like, is that? Oh, that's Bryn Gatlin. Oh, he hit it. Oh.
00:13:08
Speaker
But here's the conspiracy theorist in me, is that Mitch Hunt had a terrible first half. How many kicks did he miss? How many points was he responsible for keeping it close? Only for him to come off in the second half and have Bryn Gatlin come back on.
00:13:33
Speaker
And it wasn't supposed to be Gatlin either. It was supposed to be, Josh Arani was supposed to be on the team and he got dropped on Thursday. So yeah, it was, uh, it wasn't supposed to be that way. So there you go. Uh-huh. It was, I mean, Hey, it was, it was a great game, you know, and going to the Damien Mack kick kick. And you know, we talked about this, I think, who was it? Um,
00:14:02
Speaker
Was it, was it France that hit one early that we talked about against like Argentina or something like that? And I was like, Ooh, is this one of those situations where that might've been just a wee bit too early? Yep, it was. And this, yeah, I thought the same thing this time. I was then they talk about, you know, they had only mentioned Damien McKenzie setting up for the droppy right as the past was coming. It's like, no, it, you know, they, the guys on the field had to listen to the, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, it's too early. And, and you see the way that, um,
00:14:33
Speaker
That the highlanders just the end of the game like Four forwards on one side. All right, we're gonna pop a little pop pass take down you three of them just bowl over to like how hard is that would that have been for the Chiefs to do and then give DMACC the Easy drop goal with the the clock read like hmm. That was way too early easily easily admitted too early definitely definitely early probably
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, but I have to say there was a point for the Highlanders, they obviously fixed it. I felt like they were overplaying the middle of the field a little too much. And just, there was a point where I was like 10 phases midfield and they ended up giving it away. I was like, damn, what are you doing? Just send it the other way. Like you've played 10 phases. You are not going anywhere after 10 phases if you haven't yet. Just send it down the other direction before you screw up and they take advantage of it.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yep. So, oops. I mean, great stuff all around. It was. Yeah, I thought that the Chiefs, aside from that, though, I thought the Chiefs lacked a lot of discipline in certain areas, especially in attack.
00:15:45
Speaker
There they gave away a lot of of cheap opportunities like Who is it? So Akula him rolling in tackle. He had a bad game get a very bad game He made up for it in some ways, but not not nearly I mean that he had the kid a huge crunching tackle and open like there was a Open play and he just Lit someone up. I can't remember who it was And like
00:16:15
Speaker
It was like, so he did a couple and he did some other things, but yeah, he, he fucked up. He couldn't stop himself a few times. Yeah. I was like, no, no, you shouldn't have done that.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, and they were and we talked about we alluded to it before like a lot of penalties in this game because the I think at New Zealand, are you has come down at the very least if not world rugby has come down and said police the breakdown properly not a lot like double movements that might have slid were not getting let go at all. They were automatic penalties.
00:16:48
Speaker
Guys coming enough feet. I mean, you know from the side the gate It was you it usually has a wide berth This did not have a wide berth at all like 10 degrees outside of where you usually are and that's it like you got Zero room to come in from the side. So if you didn't hit it, right you definitely got popped so yeah, this is the this is the well, this is the referees cracking down and now the players have to adjust and adjust this game or this week and
00:17:15
Speaker
So they will it's it's it's a lot of you know getting back into things They've had but yeah, they're all rusty right rusty as hell even if they've been trained for a little bit right so that even the referees were a little rusty it was it was a But I thought it was it was well done in the end I didn't I thought that there were the
00:17:37
Speaker
I thought it was a little, it's weird. It was uneven except for the yellow cards. So the yellow cards kind of brought things into balance with the referee. Like I thought he'd let the Highlanders get away with a little stuff. Yeah, so it was a great game. Highlanders took it. I was at 3027.
00:17:56
Speaker
But yeah, it's, it was a great 28 27 was one point 27. Okay. So it was, I mean, kicks were on the second point. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great, it was a great game. You know, this was, this was the type of rugby that we were all craving, obviously.
New Zealand's COVID-19 Success
00:18:09
Speaker
Um, and just to see the fans all just like together and smiling and happy. It's like,
00:18:17
Speaker
the rest of the world. Can we get our shit together, please? Oh, well, that was the best part, the football spiking and before the match. Look at all the work.
00:18:29
Speaker
We did as in New Zealand, we beat COVID, we're the first ones back. And they talked about all the different areas around the world where they're playing the match. Look at all these countries that don't have live sports right now, but here we are in New Zealand. And then- Yeah, let alone live sports, let alone watching, being able to watch it in person. Every bit of it was like getting kind of punched in the face, like patriotically. Yeah.
00:19:02
Speaker
Then they talk about, oh, we also want to take into account that 22 people lost their lives and their family and friends are still in pain from this. And we need to give them cheer for their sacrifice. And I'm like, 22 people. Fuck.
00:19:20
Speaker
you and I doing this podcast, 22 Americans are going to die. How the fuck did we fuck up so bad? It's embarrassing. I mean, great for them. Any knock on them, they did it right. They did it well. No, they were fine. They don't owe the world jack. No.
00:19:43
Speaker
But like that their number, they are right now, they're the best country right now. They win. They win. Yeah. It's, um, yeah, I mean, it's definitely a little toot in their own horn, but they totally deserve it. They deserve it. Toot away. They totally deserve it. So it was a, it was a great, it was a great site. And then, you know, the next night, uh, come to find out Eden park has sold out.
00:20:06
Speaker
for Blue's Hurricanes, I was like, whoo, this'll be fun. I mean, the atmosphere wasn't super raucous like I thought it would be, but it was still a very good, it was still a very positive atmosphere. The game kind of let it lay it down a little bit.
00:20:22
Speaker
hurricanes, their line outs were horrendous. And that didn't matter who was throwing, whether it was Coles or Amua, both were awful. And credit to the Blues, they were on top of the hurricanes line out all day. They were stealing it. And the difference between overthrows from Coles and Amua and the Blues reading it well and being able to put up a jumper to take it away, and more often than not, that was the case. So it's more of a credit to the Blues.
00:20:51
Speaker
Hurricanes do have to figure their shit out, but that's definitely a credit to the Blues and their line-out coaching in there
00:20:57
Speaker
and their jumpers of being able to figure out what was going on with those. And we got to talk about, you know, Sam Nock and Oteri Black to... Both pretty good. Both really acquitted themselves well. Black was kicking. You have Bowden fucking back. I was like, why is Oteri Black kicking? I was a little nervous for the Blues. I was like, uh...
00:21:23
Speaker
Black's checking? Okay, whatever. And he showed some clangers. He hit every single one. He hit them all before he came out. I think they missed one after he came out. Shocker. I'm sure it was probably Harry Plummer that hit it. I don't remember. Nothing important because it didn't matter.
00:21:45
Speaker
It was over at that point. I mean, unfortunately the end was just kind of, it was a little anticlimactic because there was nothing really on the line. There were, the Blues had to get two more tries to get a bonus point. So that was kind of gone. And you know, the Hurricanes were going to have to score 10 more points in order to get a bonus point. So really it was a no, that match was in no man's land for the last 10 minutes.
00:22:06
Speaker
Yeah. I was, you know, TJ Paranar was playing 10. I was like, geez, this is, I was like, Oh, this is not good. This is very bad. This is very bad. I was like, okay, this better not be the team we do in Wellington and this coming weekend here. We've gone way too long in this discussion of this match without mentioning the, the, the,
00:22:27
Speaker
best front row try of the season. And then, and then the celebration where they, have you seen the video of the two of them kind of pushing it back and forth?
00:22:44
Speaker
No. Cole's waxed Bowdoin a little late while the Blues had the ball. And then Bowdoin chases him down, just gives him a little shove in the back. I mean, you can see this kind of smirk on both their faces, so it's no big deal. Somebody called it a cheap shot. I'm like, I think this is the two of them having a good time. I don't think it's a cheap shot. No, yeah, they're cheap shot. You'd make sure you felt it. Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
So it was good. It was just good stuff for the Blues. They played very well. I thought that, again, another case of overplaying in the wrong areas of the field. Hurricanes were definitely guilty of it. Blues did a pretty darn good job of getting the ball out when they needed to. So it just created to them like Tom Robinson had a pretty darn good game. Two people had a really good game for them. Obviously, we talked about knock, black, Talia.
00:23:39
Speaker
and Clark together. Yeah. So it's, they had, they had, they had a lot of good guys clicking for them. He was only noticeable. Um, he was, it was noticeable when he didn't do anything. You're like, Oh, Oh, 13's got the ball. He didn't do anything. Oh man. Not this time. That's all right. He's going to get it again in like five minutes and we'll see something awesome.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah, so this is a great performance for the Blues in front of a big crowd at Heaton Park, which they don't necessarily get that often. So really, in the end, for New Zealand rugby, that was huge as a whole. And then afterwards, the crowd stormed the field, which was awesome to see because they were just elated to have live sports and be able to just enjoy each other's company for the first time in a long time, really. It was great stuff.
00:24:35
Speaker
Okay, I mean I gotta give the blues a ton of credit hurricanes did not show up. No, Jordy Barrett did not help Already came off the bench, but he it was way too little too late when he came off the bench I'm sure he was on a pitch count of some sort. So that's why he didn't get too much too many minutes But the guys that needed to show up for free fee. Yeah. Nope. He was nowhere to be found really. Yeah
00:24:57
Speaker
So I don't know, maybe they stick already at seven and keep Gareth Evans at eight next week. Yeah, Dewey did not show up to play very well, of course. TJ was TJ, he's a competitor and tries like hell always.
00:25:13
Speaker
And then you got the referee. He's always barking. You know, it's him. Yeah. Well, he was, he was, he was putting his place pretty well. Um, but yeah, that's that. That's again, that, that, I liked that refereeing, you know, like I know, yes, you're TJ Parinara, but I'm the referee for this match. So.
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, calm yourself there buddy. And this match again, like the other one, had quite a few penalties. No shock, but the night before had a lot of penalties and you could only suspect that that was maybe the same thing. So it was definitely going to be a big emphasis as they talked about.
00:25:56
Speaker
Yeah, both games were a little sloppy, but also a little impressive. I feel like they were trying for some knockout blows. They were out to score tries.
00:26:08
Speaker
you know, when they could and really be aggressive. And I think that made it more fun. So it's like when they hit, when everything was clicking, Oh, that was so much fun. And then if it wasn't clicking, it was ugly and penalty filled. Oh, for sure. No, no doubt. Yeah. They, you know, and, you know, things that
00:26:27
Speaker
might've been legal and we talked about some other things like we talked about the coming from the gate, but even like the hands-on like, man, if you weren't, if you even slightly arrived off your feet, you got nailed. There were a lot of guys that, you know. I just get the feeling that like in three or four weeks, we're going to see like 50 to 40 scores. Like it's just going to be,
00:26:49
Speaker
Don't it seems like a very attacking style Yeah for the occasion. I would I would love that that continues. Yeah one wouldn't make me sad by any means. Yeah Yeah, so it was it was it was a good spectacle for the work for the world. It was on the Jerks at ESPN finally came through for us and got us guys got us what we needed so we could watch the match If you're in America and you have ESPN to set your DVR
00:27:17
Speaker
because it'll be way too early or way too late for you to watch it, likely, unless you're one of those people, which is no hate, no judgment here. But yeah. I tried to stay up for the late game on Saturday. I couldn't. It was not happening. I could. Crash hard. I was doing housework and did it all day long. So I was like, yep, good night. A couple of beers in me and I am down for the counts. Yeah, I made it close, but I was like the kid waiting up for Christmas.
00:27:46
Speaker
No, it's like it's almost 11. No, no, no, no. Yeah. So unfortunate. But yeah, blues, blues take the win and they, uh, they start off right. They, uh, who's on the by this week? The hounders on the by we'll do, we'll talk about that when we do pick them a little bit. Um, so we had, we had some very good scrum hats on display this weekend, one that even acquitted himself. That wasn't necessarily in a high end category as well. But, um,
00:28:16
Speaker
although I have to say that's the one thing on the Crusaders that they don't have is a very good scrum half.
Ranking International Scrum Halves
00:28:23
Speaker
Everything else they're good though. They'll hear you. Everything else they're fine. Nobody say anything. People can rank certain
00:28:39
Speaker
Certain positions certain scrum after they do it here over here with quarterbacks and the NFL all the time number one number two Listen, it's hard to say because it's super subjective. It's super You know in the moment like at this moment right now Right the best and people you know, I mean for right now you know and all the all the all that's just you know, pretty subjective so it's like
00:29:03
Speaker
but you can do, so I see a lot of people just go with tiers. I was like, Oh, we could do this. We're like scrum halves easily. Yeah, definitely. I figured we could have a wee bit of a conversation about this because there's more than enough scrum halves in the universe that we at least know about. I agree. That we could probably pin into one to probably about six categories here, depending on which one you're looking at here. Um,
00:29:32
Speaker
So I think without without question, so I'll read down the names of who we have and they're not necessarily in any particular order. Seeing as we just played in his watching New Zealand rugby, Aaron Smith, TJ Paranara, Brad Weber, England's Ben Young's, Wales, Reese Webb and Garrett Davies, Ireland's Connor Murray and John Cooney, France's Antoine Dupont and Sebastian Basie, Scotland's Ali Price.
00:29:57
Speaker
Australia's Wilgenia and Nick White, South Africa's Ursula Yanchis, Fafte Clerc and Cobus Reinach, Tonga's Tani Takalua, Argentina's Felipe Escura, and then Italy's Tito Tabaldi.
00:30:12
Speaker
So I mean, there's some names in there that you can say, okay, they definitely don't belong with others. But you know, you could probably put them somewhere near other others as well. So yeah, because there's others on this list that like Ben Spencer is what is like an honorable mention to this list, but
00:30:29
Speaker
I think he'd be higher. I think he'd be more than that if he actually could get a look from England rugby. Yeah, I would agree. He just hasn't got the game time recently. And, you know, you and I both are a little biased to Ben Spencer. But we've also seen him do amazing things. I think he is a better scrum, the best scrum half, one of the best scrum halves in England. No question in my mind.
00:30:51
Speaker
You know, we'll see what happens when and nobody else getting time. So I mean, we're not putting Willie Hines on this list. He's good But it's not like no. No, I don't think he's that good. You know, I don't think he's worthy of this list Honestly, especially if we're talking about yes, we could probably put him in the same categories as a couple guys on here But you know really do you need to add another name just to add another name, right? Right. He's not in the top tier. He's at the lower tiers. Right so for me I Think Aaron Smith goes in the top tier for sure. I
00:31:21
Speaker
No question. I think he's peaked, but he's still there. He's still there. He's still there. He might have peaked, but he's still there. I'm just saying, he used to be better, but now he's still at the top tier. Oh, yeah. Understandable. And then probably Conor Murray is right there with him.
00:31:42
Speaker
Yes, I agree. Both of them have their, their career trajectories or they're on the back nine, but, but they're both quite good. Um, is there anybody else that you think would be worthy of a top tier in the, in this conversation? Um,
00:32:00
Speaker
No, not unless I was just going to be biased for guys. I really like to watch. So no, right. So I think we can probably establish that as the top tier as just like your, your bet. If you want to scrum half, you go with, and then yeah, you go with one of these. You're starting a team. You can pick whatever scrum half in the universe. You want no bar none.
00:32:21
Speaker
you're probably going to pick one of these two guys. Cause if I'm thinking long-term, like if we want that, you know, again, the peaked guys, but you also want the up and coming guys. Cause I'm looking at, you know, Herschel Yankees and Antoine DuPont as in three or four years, they're going to be. They'll replace them for sure. They'll definitely see, unseat these guys. So like if I'm starting a team, I might want that. I might want to say, you know what, I'll take, I'll take the inexperience, but
00:32:49
Speaker
the broad talent over the full-on experience, but you only get like a year or two out of them. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people that are talking that Aaron Smith will definitely be playing in France in 2023. Yeah. Which wouldn't shock me whatsoever. So if we were to go
00:33:10
Speaker
How many guys do you think are in the second tier down? I can think of probably three. So we went, we had top top two guys. Um, and then when the next, yeah, if we want to go round out like a top five kind of thing, yeah, go three guys. So I could think of as in the second tier DuPont goes in there for me. Um,
00:33:33
Speaker
Man, I think I got to put TJ in there as a second, which is bonkers to think because he's the backup for the All Blacks, but he's the backup for the All Blacks. It's really hard to not. Look, I'm looking to put somebody else in there that's got even more off the wall than that because I'd go Reineck. You know, I might be inclined to say that too.
00:34:00
Speaker
You know, and that's just, that's just objective. The only other name that I would put close to those three would be Webb. I'm not sure he's there only because, here's the thing. I would put him there if he had played a lot more for Wales recently.
00:34:17
Speaker
I think if he had played a lot more for Wales recently, and that's not his fault, that's Wales being stupid. I think if that was the case, if that were possible, yeah, I think he, you could make the case for him, I bet. So I would do that. So we have TJ Paranar, Antoine Dupont, and Kilbus Raunak as our twos, as our second tier on their own. So three probably definitely consists of Reece Webb.
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah, to me and both the remaining South Africans. Yeah, yeah, and she's in declared. Right. Who else do we put into there? Do we put... I put Ali Price in there. Yeah. I like Ali Price. I do too. I... Cooney, like Cooney too.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, so it's like a five five players that we got one three Five makes sense. Yeah. Okay, so cuz it's a group. It's gonna be it's arguable at that point, but yeah Totally put an upper and lower limit on that
00:35:22
Speaker
Yeah, so So yeah, so that's one two Yeah, there's five there. So then next down probably has to include the likes of Garrett Davies Nick white Nick white. Yeah. Yeah So put him as four Garrett Davies is a four Have we approached Ben yams yet? No Okay. No young young is gonna be lower than that. Young is gonna be
00:35:51
Speaker
I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe that's, maybe it is kind of like a little, like this is almost three B. Yeah. Is, is Webber, is Webber above youngs? Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. So we probably have to put, we probably have to put the, so we're putting both the Australia guys maybe in this one. Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that. And then I don't think, I don't think five, I don't think we can just, justifiably put, um,
00:36:21
Speaker
We almost have to put Bezi and Young's in their own category with five and then put the ones that are a little bit outside. I just kind of put them all in because really like Takalua plays pretty damn well when he was in the premiership or when he was in the premiership. Oh, I had no argument on me. And I thought he acquitted himself really well at the World Cup, but I think he'd look a lot better on a more organized team in both. Likely.
00:36:48
Speaker
And, you know, again, same thing with Tabaldi. Like, I can't rate him low based on the fact that maybe he's better than he acquits himself. And again, carrying that over to Escura. So I think those are the guys who are like... Ben Young's we know is not the guy for... If you're a national side, he's not your scrum half if you're interested in winning a championship. You know that. Do you know that if about...
00:37:15
Speaker
Tenetakalua, not really, but they're good. They're kind of about on the same page. So that's kind of why I would basically everyone else would be in that last year there. And I'll say this, Ben Young's, when he used to take off and when he used to do those snipes around the rock, made himself super effective. And that led to those taxi lines that we talked about. And that made him effective in a lot of ways.
00:37:43
Speaker
And he stopped doing that. And with him, he stopped doing that. His service isn't good enough to make him the next level. And maybe it's his age, I don't know where it is. So if Ben Young's is in form and playing like the person that got him noticed to be in an England shirt. The way he played against the Kiwis, really?
00:38:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean he had we just watched that with my uh with with our rugby club Yeah, yeah, and he had him and I I talked smack about him before but this was his this I was like, this is why Everybody hates ben young because this is what he could be and it's right not This is yeah, he's he's definitely a coach's nightmare for sure Yeah, he is like one of those ones like i'm gonna tear my hair out right now because this guy should be so much better
00:38:34
Speaker
But he is just not helping me right now. So yeah, and you could put that and then you could put, let's see, what's the luster Italian scrum, Brailly, you could put him as an honorable mention on here too, we talked about Ben Spencer as well. So he could be in this list, but again, we're gonna start. Yeah, we're looking at the net. I think when he gets his,
00:38:58
Speaker
When he is more of a chance with Italy, it'll be, it'll be a little bit more obvious. Um, so yeah, that's, that's where it is.
Argentinian Player Contracts
00:39:05
Speaker
Um, speaking of, um, you mentioned the skirt before, I guess, uh, the Argentinian team, uh, the Jaguars have basically told that those players can go pursue contracts elsewhere if they wish. So I don't know if that's like the demise of the Argentinian team or if there's something else going on. Um, yeah, I saw that. I thought I saw someone signed some, I thought I saw that, uh, some sort of,
00:39:28
Speaker
someone signed in within super rugby might have been with a South African team or maybe even an Australian team. Um, and I was like, Oh, what they already, so yeah, I was definitely thinking about what's happening in the headquarters. We could lose both unfortunate, both the, uh,
00:39:44
Speaker
Um, the new entrance to the super rugby. Yeah. The non sans our teams. Yeah. Uh, yeah, it'd be, it'd be really unfortunate, especially as, as, as well as it did, you know, as the, as well as I performed last year. Yeah. Into the final and playing really hyped up therapy for a lot of it. Right. And, and that's, I don't know, I think that's helped them get to this point as a, as a country, Argentina, that is like, you know, the, the,
00:40:13
Speaker
a team to be feared internationally. Yeah, you can't sleep on ROT anymore. No, I think that's helped them get to this point. I don't know if they need it to continue. I'm hoping they can though. It might be a year or so, but I think they'll get back to where they are now. I really hope so. I feel like that should be part of the plan is to get that Japan, get the Sun Wolves,
00:40:38
Speaker
back in. Yeah. Have a plan to get them back in. Not just, not just let them back in, but have a plan to make them viable. Yeah. And not make them pay so much fricking money to be a super rugby franchise. Come on now.
00:40:51
Speaker
That was so bogus when I found that out. I was like, what the shit? And you're kicking them out, like, come on, man. Yeah, I mean, there's two ways to go about with the Japanese franchise. You could do that, or you could go and develop that Japan Super League a little bit heavier. We saw the frigging way guys were destroying that, like, R his name. Because the players are just...
00:41:18
Speaker
They're not huge. They're they're not the same level. Yeah, so you could yeah, you could develop the sunwalls into a buy a more viable option or The other route is okay. No sunwalls, but you make the the japanese super league a bigger a better product And make it something that people want to watch right? Well its own Like build that as a like because I really do think if we get the super the thumbs are the world rugby calendar worked out Yeah, it'll be
00:41:48
Speaker
like we'll have we can have some sort of club championship so you can have it a league in japan and if they qualify maybe on different tiers maybe there's like uh like exactly how they do the uh the the european champions cup
00:42:03
Speaker
there's a champion's cup, there's a challenge cup, like, maybe there's a champions league, or not league, but, you know, a playoff. Yep. Final. Yep. Right. And they could do a champions, a challenge, like things like that. And that way you're still playing quality club teams, even if you're not on the international state, like all that stuff. Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
but that would help grow the game in someplace like japan to the point where they would have a dominant club and they would have good public yeah right grow the game locally and bring it global i will say that the the international stars of yesteryear do speak glowingly about playing in japan they they say they enjoyed it they say that they speak well of it
00:42:45
Speaker
I think part of them enjoying it is also because they, the train is not that rough. That might be why. And they usually fairly well compensated as well. So maybe that's why, but, um, you know, to, to the Japanese leaves credit, I will say that they definitely, um,
00:43:04
Speaker
Sounds like they do right by those guys when they go there. Yeah. Like it's not like certain other countries that players go to for the money and then get miserable. Cause there's no structure to it and no anything. Yeah.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you don't want to go into your guys talk shit about going to France. They're like, yeah, I went for the money. So nobody says I went to, nobody says I went to Japan for the money. It was, I went through meant for the money, but they also had a lot of fun. Like, yeah. Sounds like that was a good experience. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, you can, you know, and I go back to big Jim and he says, yeah, when I went to,
00:43:44
Speaker
where'd he go, Bordeaux or something like that, or whatever it was, Montpellier, whatever it was. He said, yeah, that was 100% about the money. And even in Ashy, Chris Ashton, he went to Toulon totally for the money, but he hated it there. That's why he jumped ship afterwards. He's like, cool, I set the record in the league for tries. I'm out, later. I'm good, you guys have fun, I'm out. I guess it's super clicky.
00:44:12
Speaker
which in a way kind of makes sense. So yes, yep, there's a lot of good to be had by the road rugby calendar getting reset and being able to take a look at leaks separately. But all running concurrently or as concurrently as possible, obviously there'll be a little bit mismatch here and there. And I go back to the,
00:44:35
Speaker
I hammered it earlier, the breaks, to have actual international windows. Because what happens is, here's the thing, when you have a legit international window that would be sanctioned by World Rugby, they have it for FIFA, they have it for soccer, they have it for football. Do you have an international break?
00:44:55
Speaker
You get to have your, you know, a rewind the clock, your Linden Donovan's, your Clint Dempsey's in your team for those friendly matches that are being played over here. You put butts in seats.
00:45:08
Speaker
And you also, and you also put out a good product as well. So, you know, cause I remember it's a, it's a double edged sword. So it's huge and I can't emphasize enough. So I'm okay with this, this idea. And you know, those that are turning off with her, the likes of Steven Jones that are an old fart that's still stuck in, you know, 19th century. So like I've said before, I got to see TT Lamos Atelier play, um, against the, the Marielle blacks.
00:45:34
Speaker
And like where everybody was like, look, make sure you see him and make sure you watch him play. Cause you probably never going to see him play live again. And it's like, yeah. What you did.
00:45:48
Speaker
Have I? Yeah. Did he play it? I think he played for the Saracens when they were over here. He must have. All right. Well, there. But that's cheating. We got lucky. We got lucky. We got very lucky for that. We got lucky. But yeah, we had to, because they're going to play the Yanks. There's no way they wouldn't. But yeah, it's just kind of annoying that, yeah, if I want to go see the Eagles play, it really wouldn't be their best side.
00:46:16
Speaker
No, no, not unless you wash your makeup. You're stuck enough when they have their best side. Facts, facts. Don't do that to me. Like, let me see the best. No, I mean, I mean, and yeah, I got lucky and I got to see that. But that was like, that's not everybody doesn't get to do that. No, you know, everybody, you know, I got to see
00:46:42
Speaker
Manoa play. Holy God, is that dude big? He busted his hand too. I was just like, good game, man. And he was going around shaking hands. He's like, yeah. And he like kind of gave me a half this pound. I was like broke. He's like, yeah. I was like, Ooh, that sucks. He's like, uh-huh. They're gonna, you just transferred, you just signed with too long.
00:47:03
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, they're going to be bad. I was like, I bet. Yeah. So yeah, it doesn't happen where people get that opportunity all the time. You know, again, I was.
00:47:15
Speaker
One of the few lucky ones that got to watch that team in full-fledged, and there's others that are in the same boat, but that's a small percentage, not the other way around. We need to fix that. We had people go over to Japan, but that was not even anywhere near as good a team.
00:47:34
Speaker
No, I thought, yeah, I thought the team we put together for England was a little better. Yeah. Personally. And that's just, that's just me putting that out there. Um, so yeah.
New Rules in Australian Rugby
00:47:44
Speaker
Um, and while we, before we get too, too, uh, we do still have to do pick them, um, quick thoughts on Australia, rugby's competition. Uh, when do, do we know when it's kicking off yet?
00:48:01
Speaker
Uh, July 3rd. Yes, we do. Okay. That'll be Reds versus Juartas and Brumbies versus rebels. I guess, I don't know if I was, if they're implementing the 2250 rule, I don't know how much I want to watch. Oh, I'll watch some. I mean, I'll watch it. Maybe I'll give it a game. Maybe I'll give it a game. Look, there's a, there's a lot of rules. I, yeah, I, I almost tried. I tried. No, I did try. Value and effort, my friend.
00:48:30
Speaker
I'll continue the effort to completion so that at least you understand where I was going with it. But the latter rules, changes that come into play, even the Scrum law changes, people kind of bitched about it first, but then you see the result and you're like, oh no, in the end, it's a better game because of it. And I'm like, but this doesn't really change, and it does, it changes a lot.
00:48:52
Speaker
Cause it changes how you're going to have to defend. You're going to have to drop people back. It's going to be what, what I'm actually interested in seeing is, is there going to be almost like off an American football type defense where you have a first layer, a second layer, and then the seat, like the, the back three. That'll, that'll, that'll frustrate me personally. And yeah, I'm not, I'm not trying to watch rugby or football. I'm trying to watch rugby. The flat line defense is what I want to see.
00:49:22
Speaker
Uh, I don't want to make it a kicking tennis type type game. Although I do find, I do find the, the rule about the, the 22 50 that I find better. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing that in action. Not so much the 50 22, because that's too much of an advantage. If you have a team running all around and then you can just kick it down and have your own line out. Like that's a little much, but like, if you're, you're in your own end or you, you turn the ball over quickly and you can kick it up.
00:49:51
Speaker
you know and and get ahead of the defense um yeah that's a little different that's kind of cool that that creates more attacking rugby i like that i want to see that the the 50 22 i could i could live without yeah totally yeah i could live with the the 22 50
00:50:08
Speaker
But the other way around, I'm not into it. Right. So I hope that they use this to give both. And I'm kind of glad they're doing it because they're recognizing that, yeah, this is pretty much exhibition. We're going to get back to sports as normal.
00:50:24
Speaker
at some point. So for now, this is the best we can do. So let's do some things. Let's make some changes and see if we can make the game better in the end. And I think the 2250 rule actually has some legs to it. I'm looking forward to that. But
00:50:40
Speaker
Unfortunately, I have to do with the 50-22 rule also. Yeah, and that one I could do without personally, so yeah. But at least it'll be interesting to see how it affects the game. What happens if you actually like, oh, you know what? It kind of makes sense. I kind of like it. I'm scared. It does change the game. That's what I don't like. The Scrum Law didn't change the game. It just put more emphasis on playing rugby, not the Scrum. Right.
00:51:08
Speaker
This doesn't really put emphasis on the things that we're doing as rugby players. The 2250 rule kind of does, but the 5022, I know it just changes too much. I just want, yeah, if we're going to resort to that one particular, I'd rather we just get better coaching and teach more open play and stop with the...
00:51:31
Speaker
Nobody is proposing the Caterpillar Ruck change yet. Like, come on. Come on. Of all the things that they're proposing, they're not proposing the Caterpillar Ruck. Come on, man.
00:51:49
Speaker
Killing me. Killing me softly over here.
Match Predictions
00:51:52
Speaker
Okay. All right, let's do pick them. The whole lot of two. No change in our lead. We had matched. We are still a dead even because Ben and I both picked incorrectly last week, both matches. So back to square one, shall we? All right, so Chiefs Blues first up.
00:52:14
Speaker
your Chiefs going back home and welcoming the Blues after their big win? Right. I think the Blues, that was as good as you're going to see them. Yeah, you think so? They played really fucking well that game. They did. And the Chiefs, that was not as good as you're going to see them. And plus the Chiefs are now at home. So I'm going to go with the Chiefs. Because I think both teams ended up winning last week.
00:52:43
Speaker
Both teams, uh, both home teams did end up ending up winning the last week. So I'm going to get, you know, unlike, you know, the Bundesliga soccer, which I watched quite extensively. Um, home advantages, obviously no more because there's no fans. Uh, so here there are fans. So it's actually coming in handy. Um, yeah, I think, I think I have to go with the chiefs. Um,
00:53:07
Speaker
They made some correctable mistakes that lost that game. That's really where I am. Yeah, they only lost it by a point. It's not like they got smoked. And they did not play at their best. They have a bugaboo about the Highlanders. Yeah, and Aaron Cruden did not start that game. No. I would bet they would perform better. Granted, he's a little older. He's not going to finish any games either. I would put 60 minutes on Cruden and then let's see what happens with that, personally. That'd be me.
00:53:37
Speaker
Okay, to Wellington, and the Crusaders get their first bit of action, and the Hurricanes gotta lick their wounds a little bit. I don't know the status of Jordy Barrett, so that's the only thing that has me concerned. But, man, I gotta believe Artie Savia is starting this game. And that might be enough to be able to shove it over. I mean, it's a tough ass. Crusaders are, they've played really well, obviously, before COVID hit.
00:54:07
Speaker
It's gonna be a lot tighter, I think, than people think. Yeah, well, I think that the Hurricanes have the experience now. So we talked about the penalties. That's true. The Hurricanes have the experience of, here's what we can and can't do. The Crusaders, for all you can coach about it, nothing takes the place of having to do it in a match. True.
00:54:33
Speaker
Even for like a week they could spend this whole week working on proper support in the rock, but they're still gonna come in from the side They're still gonna take that extra role in the tackle. So It's just kind of one of those things you don't untrain your brain from
00:54:48
Speaker
You've got to actually experience the negative consequences. Yeah. First, you can't just be like, okay, that's a penalty. Like I get it. No, it doesn't work that well. Yeah. Brains just don't work that well sometimes like that'll work for the first 10 minutes. And then, and then they'll go back to instincts, which aren't good at the moment. So.
00:55:08
Speaker
So yeah, I'm gonna go with the Hurricanes. Yeah. Actually, you helped talk me into it because I was gonna go with the Crusaders to pick up a game on you, but then I realized that no, actually, this makes sense. Yeah. I know. It's, well, I mean, we're dead even, so. Yeah. Yeah. Hoof lunches first. Right. Yeah. I think the first couple of weeks, we're gonna probably be chalk and go same.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah. Pretty much the whole way through. Maybe, maybe next week, but yeah. We'll start figuring it out. And once super rugby is back in, that'll, you know, we'll have multiple matches. Oh yeah. Once Australia rugby kicks in as well, that'll, that'll definitely help us with our sorting ourselves out.
00:55:49
Speaker
We're going to have to find a point where we actually separate season one and season two because we might run into our quote unquote season three, season three rather. Yeah. We have season one finale was one of the most listened to podcasts until we did our
00:56:10
Speaker
until we did the permission preview and then we did the live draft. Wow. Those two overtook it. But yeah, I was actually surprised that we had that many downloads of our, of our finale. Who knew? Yeah. We did the, you know, the, with the walking dead used to do that mid season.
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah. Break. Now that's what we kind of just, that'll kind of be our season break. Yeah. Yeah. I know we're going to have like fricking two weeks. Um, also I just like, I know there are listeners out there that are downloading this in California, Pennsylvania, Michigan, like consistently. So we see you folks. Thank you so much for being awesome and doing that consistently. Um, feel free to drop us an email, fancy podcast at gmail.com. We just want to know what you think.
00:56:52
Speaker
Um, anybody else can do that too. But yeah, definitely you guys that are out there consistently downloading the sucker. We want to hear what you think. Um, that'd be awesome. Um, but yeah, other than that beer
00:57:03
Speaker
That's as close as we can get is the states. So we know we know what state you're from out there. Other than that, no idea. Hands up. Um, yeah, Hey, we're, we're back into the stronger than kids here. Uh, two, two and two now. So here we go. I'm off from running there, boys. It's great to be back. Yes, it is. Um, so we'll have, we'll probably have more information on the world rugby schedule when we come back next weekend. And well, I'm sure there'll be all the talking points that have been,
00:57:31
Speaker
mulled over as well. And then obviously we'll have more rugby to talk about. It's going to be a great day. But other than that, thank you very much guys for stopping by. Follow Dunnoir on Twitter. We appreciate you guys very much. And until next time, good guys. We'll catch you guys later.