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FAQs about Feminism, Double Standards, Men Who Are Still Friends with an Ex
80 Plays4 years ago
The Devil's Buttcheeks. FAQ and AskFDS grab bag.
00:00 - Is FDS Feminist?
12:37 - Do you care that FDS promotes double standards?
31:00 - Do LVM Change?
47:00 - Dating Men Who Are Still Friends With Their Ex
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Transcript
Introduction and FAQs
00:00:05
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:00:10
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:00:11
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:12
Speaker
And this is Lilith.
00:00:13
Speaker
And we have some great stuff coming up for you today.
00:00:16
Speaker
Today, we're doing some FAQs that we get a lot on the subreddit.
00:00:21
Speaker
And finally, we're going to take some questions from our Ask FDS subreddit, where you can get some insight live from some FDS strategists.
00:00:30
Speaker
Sounds like a good deal.
00:00:31
Speaker
Awesome.
00:00:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:33
Speaker
All right.
00:00:34
Speaker
So first up, FAQs.
00:00:36
Speaker
This is a question we get over and over and over.
FDS and Feminism
00:00:39
Speaker
And I feel like a lot of times it's in an accusatory tone.
00:00:43
Speaker
And the question we get often is, are you feminist?
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, obviously.
00:00:51
Speaker
Is FDS a feminist subreddit?
00:00:53
Speaker
Is it a feminist group?
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you guys.
00:00:56
Speaker
We're feminist, but I think the caveat is that we don't necessarily 100% adhere to any one school of thought when it comes to feminism.
00:01:06
Speaker
We're more feminist in the way that we believe in the advancement socially, politically, economically, and legally of women.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:15
Speaker
Especially in the context of, you know, relationships where women have been conditioned pretty much as we came out of the womb to constantly neglect and forego our own needs and wants and desires as well.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:27
Speaker
I think people who say, you know, that we're not feminist, first of all, it's mostly like...
00:01:32
Speaker
male people, you know, saying you're not real feminists because you don't serve my interests, which is to be expected from people with competing interests from us.
00:01:40
Speaker
I actually think that we are the most distilled, pure form of feminism because we don't, we cut all the other shit, okay?
00:01:48
Speaker
We are just about the ruthless advancement of women, bar none, without any other considerations.
Challenges of Gender Equality
00:01:54
Speaker
And that was what feminism was originally about, right?
00:01:57
Speaker
Before the third wave came in and started this whole, you know, split down the middle, we're just like men, 50-50, yeah.
00:02:05
Speaker
And it's like, well, I mean, in theory, that sounds like the end, you know, good solution to our problems to go 50-50.
00:02:14
Speaker
But in reality, you know, we can see that that just doesn't translate at all.
00:02:20
Speaker
It ends up a lot of times, disadvantaging women to pretend there are no sex based differences or to kind of keep it.
00:02:28
Speaker
A lot of times it feels like there's a lot of pressure on women to climb that corporate ladder, do everything the boys can.
00:02:35
Speaker
And while it's clear that we can do those things and we're fully capable, what is it costing us and how can we make society better suit the specific needs of us as women?
00:02:45
Speaker
I think there's been a huge eye opening awakening.
00:02:49
Speaker
From a lot of working mothers because of this pandemic where they're kind of like, hey, I really thought I was, you know, this staunch third wave feminist.
00:02:57
Speaker
I was very focused on my career.
00:03:00
Speaker
And then as soon as the pandemic hit, I am stuck at home with my children all the time, who they, you know, they very much love, but raising children is a lot of work.
00:03:07
Speaker
And they're realizing that, okay, I don't have any support.
00:03:11
Speaker
I'm not getting a ton of support from my job.
00:03:13
Speaker
I'm not getting support from my husband.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I think where FDS comes in is like, we're really trying to at least help to screen men for their ability to be supportive of you.
00:03:25
Speaker
And I mean, genuinely, when it comes to...
00:03:27
Speaker
Housework, child rearing, household management, those kinds of things that I think a lot of feminist thought leaders have been complaining about for a while.
00:03:36
Speaker
But there hasn't really been any type of discussion about how do we change that?
00:03:41
Speaker
Or it seems to me like, well, you need to start making those demands up front.
00:03:45
Speaker
And you need to start vetting men to make sure they have that capability than waiting till a tragedy hits like this.
00:03:52
Speaker
And then suddenly the entire world collapses on you as a woman.
00:03:55
Speaker
And some women are breadwinners.
00:03:56
Speaker
I think there's been a lot of women that have been pushed out of the workplace through layoffs or they've left voluntarily because they can't afford childcare.
00:04:03
Speaker
But for those women who they wanted to stay and they're now at home and they just have no resources to work with, and that's just not a great position to be in, even women who otherwise would be economically safe.
00:04:15
Speaker
To add on to that, I do think that people tend to get caught up on the definition of feminism as equality.
00:04:23
Speaker
You know, we all know the definition of feminism as the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, men use it to weaponize it.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, men
00:04:30
Speaker
tend to use that to like gaslight women yeah they weaponize the word equality and they go like well what about men and like we're oppressed too and it's crazy because they'll do terrible things to women and then when we do the same thing they point at us and go like well you're a hypocrite and therefore i'm allowed to continue doing my terrible thing but you're not allowed to do your terrible thing basically fds is just about being like you know what we don't give a shit about equality
00:04:56
Speaker
Because equality, you know, let's be real, you know, equality between the sexes, it doesn't exist.
Critique of Modern Feminism
00:05:02
Speaker
But let's be real.
00:05:03
Speaker
The double standards between behaviours and expectations from, you know, between men and women are not even the same.
00:05:11
Speaker
I mean, we're physically different.
00:05:12
Speaker
You know, we're physically different.
00:05:13
Speaker
And even, you know, things like our sexuality, how we're perceived, you know, when we're, you know, our sexual beings is totally different.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:22
Speaker
Like you can't go 50-50 on childbirth, right?
00:05:25
Speaker
Like if a woman is, like a woman is pregnant and giving birth and like breastfeeding her child, right?
00:05:31
Speaker
There's like, the man has to really step the fuck up if he wants to come even close to, you know, he's, in fact, first of all,
00:05:40
Speaker
Not possible for him to go 50-50 on that.
00:05:42
Speaker
He can put a ton of effort into it and maybe it'll be like 70-30.
00:05:47
Speaker
But that being said, because women are so vulnerable because of, you know, oppression based on reproduction, I think we'd get to aim for the stars.
00:05:56
Speaker
I don't give a shit what men think.
00:05:59
Speaker
The other thing I think to recognize too is that it's not as if feminism has always been one monolithic way of thinking.
00:06:08
Speaker
There's always been varying schools of thought about what quote unquote equality looks like, how to go about said equality.
00:06:16
Speaker
And I think that sort of the mainstream girl power consumerist feminism has become the most popular kind of feminism, or at least the one that's been co-opted by
00:06:27
Speaker
again, our capitalist overlords that basically decide all these movements.
00:06:31
Speaker
I have a similar beef with the way they co-opted Black Lives Matter and took a lot of the bite out of it.
00:06:37
Speaker
But I think it's important to discuss the fact that this is an ongoing conversation.
00:06:42
Speaker
It's not like, this is what feminism is.
00:06:45
Speaker
This is settled.
00:06:46
Speaker
And that's it.
00:06:46
Speaker
When there's always been dissenters on certain schools of thought.
00:06:50
Speaker
And so people calling us, oh, you guys aren't real feminists.
00:06:53
Speaker
It's like, well...
00:06:54
Speaker
What the heck is a real feminist?
00:06:56
Speaker
You're just taught.
00:06:56
Speaker
It's the same thing as saying, well, you guys aren't real conservatives or you guys aren't real liberals or you guys, because quite frankly, even within the Democratic Party and the Republican Party that's in the United States.
00:07:11
Speaker
This podcast is so US centric because I, and I keep forgetting about our foreign friends.
00:07:16
Speaker
But okay.
00:07:17
Speaker
But just think left wing versus right wing parties.
00:07:21
Speaker
And, you know, there's dissent within those parties.
00:07:24
Speaker
It's never, it's never like everyone here believes in the exact same thing.
00:07:28
Speaker
There's general principles that people believe in, but the execution of which there's always dissent, that there's always discussion about how to make adjustments when new information comes in.
00:07:38
Speaker
That's just the nature of,
00:07:40
Speaker
the beast.
00:07:41
Speaker
It's a constantly moving post.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:46
Speaker
And the other thing is, you know, feminism has to constantly evolve because as we evolve, so will misogynists.
00:07:53
Speaker
And I just feel like the past 10 years on the internet, there's been a constant arms race between like, you know, men who hate women and women being like, hey, wait a fucking minute.
00:08:02
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
And this is what really, really irritates me sometimes about our critics.
00:08:08
Speaker
I don't know if they just rather bury their head in the sand, but I always want to point out, in case you guys have not noticed, these guys are building an army of pissed off, radicalized men who are going out into the
00:08:24
Speaker
the dating world and deliberately attacking
FDS vs. Red Pill Community
00:08:27
Speaker
us, right?
00:08:27
Speaker
Or trying to manipulate us.
00:08:28
Speaker
And this is not like the cutesy pickup artist stuff, like from back in the early 2000s, where you kind of wanted them to win because you feel like, okay, they're kind of awkward guys and they just need some help talking to women.
00:08:39
Speaker
I think
00:08:40
Speaker
I think a lot of times people just thought like Red Pill and MGTOW and all those types of things, that those are those guys.
00:08:46
Speaker
Those guys, these new Krapa Manosphere weirdos, they are deliberately hostile and they're trying to make... They're trying to change things socially, politically, economically to basically create a return to patriarchy.
00:09:01
Speaker
And it's... Yeah, I mean, there are guys...
00:09:04
Speaker
There are guys on FDS who straight up root for climate change because they want, like, a Mad Max situation where, you know, society collapses and they can reinstate patriarchy.
00:09:15
Speaker
That's what we're up against.
00:09:16
Speaker
Guys on the red pill.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah, red pill are incels, that kind of stuff.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, MGTOW as well.
00:09:20
Speaker
They'll say, like, oh, I love China because they put people in concentration camps.
00:09:24
Speaker
Like, that is what we're up against.
00:09:25
Speaker
So when people say that FDS is, like, red pill for women...
00:09:29
Speaker
It's like looking at any situation where someone is being attacked and saying, oh, the person being attacked is just as bad.
00:09:35
Speaker
Man goes out and rapes a woman and is like, oh, you know, her not wanting to get raped is just as bad as him wanting to rape her.
00:09:42
Speaker
Like, that's exactly what it means when people say we're just red pill for women or whatever.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's completely disingenuous.
00:09:50
Speaker
And I think it's an extremely lazy comparison considering the vastly different goals between the two and the vastly different strategies.
00:09:58
Speaker
And, you know, we don't really promote any kind of sociopathic manipulation.
00:10:03
Speaker
I think if you saw that kind of stuff on our subreddit, it would look like a very different thing, right?
00:10:08
Speaker
If we were sitting there sharing strategies on how to, you know, trick guys into children that aren't theirs, how to get out of...
00:10:17
Speaker
I don't know,
Relationship Strategies
00:10:18
Speaker
but something like that.
00:10:18
Speaker
Take us to the cleaners during divorce.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
00:10:21
Speaker
We don't strategize about that.
00:10:22
Speaker
Although sometimes we do.
00:10:24
Speaker
We take us to cleaners during divorce if he deserves it.
00:10:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
And we also talk about like prenups, but more from the angle of, you know, women need, especially if, you know, women are accomplished, have assets.
00:10:35
Speaker
It's more to protect the woman, not necessarily like just to rinse the man.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah, we're not, I mean, we're not out here making these sociopathic type strategies for the intent purpose of subjugating them.
00:10:49
Speaker
And in fact, like, anything that we do is really, like, the things that red pillars and MGTOW types do is for their own advancement over...
00:10:58
Speaker
is just basically like, fuck you, I got mine.
00:11:00
Speaker
It's solely for their own benefit.
00:11:03
Speaker
The stuff we talk about on Female Dating Strategy benefits women as a whole, and it also benefits our children.
00:11:09
Speaker
Like, when we expect a guy to pay for dates, we're asking him to prove that he can be not just a good partner, but also potentially a good father.
00:11:17
Speaker
So it's not just about, you know, the benefit of us as individuals.
00:11:22
Speaker
It's the benefit of women as a whole and children.
00:11:26
Speaker
Precisely.
00:11:27
Speaker
And I'm really glad you touched on that point about, you know, we want to make sure that, you know, our kids have good fathers.
00:11:34
Speaker
I think, again, women, you know, have been, you know, vetting or taught to vet for partners, but then they quickly find that when kids come into the mix, they find out that their partner is actually very, very useless as a father.
00:11:47
Speaker
And that will have...
00:11:49
Speaker
a very negative impact on the children children understand the relationship dynamics the potential for there to be damage done in terms of like multi-generational damage done it's so important that women get the decision right as well not just for themselves like you said but for their children and their grandchildren and and great great great grandchildren as well
00:12:10
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:10
Speaker
When red pillars are out there trying to game or whatever, all they are thinking is of that night.
00:12:17
Speaker
They just want to get their dick wet that night.
00:12:19
Speaker
And they're not thinking at all further into the future, right?
00:12:22
Speaker
Women are thinking not just, is this person good relationship material, but is this person someone who will step up to the plate in the event of, say, a pandemic or some other tragedy, and who will really step up and go the extra mile as a parent and not just as a boyfriend.
00:12:38
Speaker
So that kind of brings us to our next FAQ, which is, do you care that FDS promotes double standards when dealing with men?
00:12:46
Speaker
The short answer is no.
00:12:48
Speaker
And I'll explain why, because ultimately, you know, FDS isn't an equality strategy.
00:12:54
Speaker
It's an equity strategy.
00:12:56
Speaker
One thing that makes FDS unique is that we understand that the dynamics between men and women are inherently, they're not equal.
00:13:05
Speaker
As much as, you know, liberal feminism likes to say equality between the sexes, we know that does not exist.
00:13:11
Speaker
Therefore, we need to switch to equitable strategies in order to have somewhat of a chance against the unequal dynamics that society has essentially generated between men and women.
00:13:22
Speaker
So, for example, you know, let's say...
00:13:25
Speaker
You know, FDS, a teaching is that we don't share our sexual histories with men, but it's important to have an understanding of a man's sexual history.
00:13:34
Speaker
So things like, does he watch porn?
00:13:36
Speaker
You know, his views on casual sex.
00:13:38
Speaker
And for me personally, I thought that was a huge double standard until I came to understand that the reason why that is, is because...
00:13:45
Speaker
The sexualities of, say, men and women are judged very, very differently.
00:13:50
Speaker
A promiscuous man is not judged anywhere near as harshly as a woman who's even slept with two men.
00:13:57
Speaker
And that's just the way it is.
00:13:58
Speaker
So, in short, no, because, I mean, double standards sometimes exist for a very good reason.
00:14:04
Speaker
And, you know, the reason that we have is that we don't live in equitable society
Critique of Sex Work Narrative
00:14:12
Speaker
for women.
00:14:12
Speaker
Like, we just don't.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
Liberal feminists will try to...
00:14:16
Speaker
you know, create this narrative that even mentioning the difference in how men and women are treated sexually, that itself is perpetuating patriarchy, and that's what makes us unfeminist.
00:14:28
Speaker
But the thing is, is there's nothing patriarchal or anti-woman about acknowledging, like, the reality of the world that you're in, right?
00:14:36
Speaker
You don't, you're not advancing women by sleeping with every man you see, you know?
00:14:40
Speaker
You're only hurting yourself.
00:14:42
Speaker
You're not actually doing anything to harm patriarchy.
00:14:44
Speaker
It's not beneficial to
00:14:45
Speaker
for women to pretend like we already live in a world that's equal and just sort of turn a blind eye to all the ways that it's not.
00:14:51
Speaker
These are the same kinds of people who think that we're perpetuating patriarchy when we ask a man or expect a man to pay.
00:14:57
Speaker
These are the same people who think there's nothing wrong with, you know, having an OnlyFans.
00:15:01
Speaker
Like, why is it considered patriarchal for a guy to pay for your dinner, but not for him to pay for your OnlyFans or for your, you know, to pay for your porn services?
00:15:09
Speaker
To see you also, yeah.
00:15:11
Speaker
It makes sense!
00:15:14
Speaker
or us out, yeah.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's been ridiculous to kind of see them tie themselves in knots to always excuse what I've now come to understand as left-wing patriarchy.
00:15:27
Speaker
I think it's really easy to point fingers at the traditional conservative and say, look at those women over there, how they're being exploited and held back from their potential.
00:15:34
Speaker
But then look at all the women who have turned to sex work out of economic dependency or serious emotional and physical damage.
00:15:41
Speaker
And it's like they never want to focus on those cases.
00:15:43
Speaker
They always want to focus on sort of the pretty woman...
00:15:46
Speaker
uh, voluntary sex workers or the, or the sex workers that make the most out of this industry and not what it takes out of them.
00:15:52
Speaker
But I feel like it's just in, just ingenuous to do that as it is for, I think, traditional conservatives to always highlight like the really, really good marriages where it really works or the, where the wife stays home and the father is the patriarch of the family and then ignore all the carnage from the women who, for which that arrangement led to a lot of abuse.
00:16:11
Speaker
So I think for us, when we're talking about, uh,
00:16:15
Speaker
double standards between men and women, you're looking at essentially a divide on the right and the left where there's still double standards.
00:16:24
Speaker
You're still seeing women being exploited for reproductive and sexual labor.
00:16:29
Speaker
But for whatever reason, liberal feminists have decided to coin that as empowerment or say that is the future.
00:16:37
Speaker
And we're just not buying it, essentially.
00:16:39
Speaker
And we're saying, I don't know about that.
00:16:41
Speaker
But even men have said that, you know, things like OnlyFans, if you ask, if you go into any, if you type into Google, experiment for the listeners and Google, would you date a sex worker Reddit?
00:16:53
Speaker
Almost unanimously, they'll all be saying no.
00:16:56
Speaker
But then how many of them also watch porn?
00:16:58
Speaker
It's very Madonna-Horry complex with sex workers.
00:17:04
Speaker
And it's like, if it was truly empowering, the people making the most money would be men.
00:17:10
Speaker
Men have managed to dominate pretty much every industry on earth, partly because of female disenfranchisement.
00:17:17
Speaker
and you know putting up barriers to women entering the workplace so we can compete on an even level but men have managed to dominate pretty much all of the highest paying professions politics engineering you know science you know you know at the top you'll see a man if it was truly empowering why don't we see yeah like why isn't bill gates out there stripping you know like i want to see i want to see donald trump out there in a g-string okay
00:17:42
Speaker
Gyrating is just for money, okay?
00:17:44
Speaker
Like, that's real empowerment.
00:17:49
Speaker
I mean, have you guys seen what the Coomers who run Pornhub look like when they did that?
00:17:54
Speaker
They were in some kind of Canadian, I think, Parliamentarian review.
00:17:59
Speaker
And it struck me that think of all the women that have gone through Pornhub and
00:18:05
Speaker
And there was no females at the top making the big bucks off all that sexual exploitation.
00:18:10
Speaker
So when they're talking about empowerment, I'm like, you're talking about basically a big pool of labor for men to exploit.
00:18:18
Speaker
It doesn't particularly look to me that they're getting the power positions, even in this industry, that women are most of the labor for.
00:18:25
Speaker
Even the CEO of OnlyFans is a British male.
00:18:29
Speaker
He's a man.
00:18:30
Speaker
If it was set up by a sex worker and she was, you know, taking the coins, I'd be like, fair play.
00:18:35
Speaker
You know, that is, I'm not sure I'd call it empowerment, but it's something, progress, right?
00:18:38
Speaker
But it's still owned by a man who's basically profiting off the bodies of hundreds of thousands of women around the world.
00:18:45
Speaker
I mean, that's the same thing with strip clubs.
00:18:47
Speaker
Any place where you see women being the product,
00:18:52
Speaker
It's always owned by a man.
00:18:54
Speaker
Always.
00:18:56
Speaker
I think even the strippers sued some of the strip clubs in New York because they were doing a lot of underhanded illegal things.
00:19:01
Speaker
They were trying to cut them out of money they were entitled to as independent contractors, and they would hit them with a bunch of random fees and say, okay, well, you didn't close your locker all the way, and so we're going to hit you with $20 off your tips that you get from stripping.
Empowerment Strategies
00:19:16
Speaker
So
00:19:16
Speaker
It's still, even with the women that work in this industry, very unfair.
00:19:20
Speaker
And I know we kind of went off on a tangent here on the sex work thing, but I mean, ultimately, comprehensively looking at how the world actually works and what is actually benefiting women, what is actually getting women into power positions versus what is just making us easier to exploit, you start to realize that...
00:19:37
Speaker
trying to pretend that we're going to have equal outcomes when we have a completely unequal demand and unequal risk is just a losing strategy.
00:19:46
Speaker
And so I think with FDS, again, because we're more about equity feminism than just equality as some nebulous concept that's achievable, we're looking at
00:19:56
Speaker
What can we actually do that's going to further the largest cross-section of women and put some real power, economic, social, and legal, and political power in their pockets?
00:20:06
Speaker
And sometimes that does mean having double standards when it comes to men, especially since we already know men are going to exact double standards on us no matter what we do because it benefits them.
00:20:17
Speaker
It benefits them to control us sexually.
00:20:21
Speaker
And I can't remember who coined this phrase.
00:20:23
Speaker
Um...
00:20:24
Speaker
that conservatives see women as private property and liberal men see women as public property.
00:20:31
Speaker
But, you know, if you're being exploited on both these ends, it's time to kind of change your strategy up and start to look at it like, you know, what is going to be most beneficial to me?
00:20:41
Speaker
Right-wing people like to promote this idea of female empowerment as, like, being a good wife and mother.
00:20:47
Speaker
And left-wing, you know, misogynists like to promote the idea of empowerment as, you know, being a hooker.
00:20:55
Speaker
Easily available sexually to men.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, like, not even being a, like, an actual prostitute, but being, like, a free prostitute.
00:21:02
Speaker
Like, just going out there and sleeping with men.
00:21:05
Speaker
I know.
00:21:06
Speaker
Free of charge, right?
00:21:09
Speaker
I mean, where is the lie?
00:21:10
Speaker
Because they get an attitude if you demand they pay for dinner, right?
00:21:14
Speaker
So they really are out here like, you should love me for me.
00:21:17
Speaker
For free.
00:21:19
Speaker
You should serve my sexual interest 100% on my terms for free.
Double Standards in Dating
00:21:25
Speaker
That will empower you.
00:21:27
Speaker
I'm also gonna judge you if you do it though.
00:21:29
Speaker
I'm also gonna get mad at you and also the entire culture because some of you are having sex with other guys that aren't me before you meet me.
00:21:36
Speaker
Because you're only supposed to jump in bed the first night with me specifically.
00:21:40
Speaker
It's basically like somebody on the subreddit basically summed it up as you know men, you know, they have an attitude of basically you know, give me what I want and we'll see if it works out for you.
00:21:50
Speaker
That's their general attitude towards women.
00:21:53
Speaker
Just give me what I want and we'll see if it works in your favour.
00:21:56
Speaker
It's like, I'm going to do what I fucking want to do.
00:21:58
Speaker
Y'all get in where you fit in.
00:22:00
Speaker
We'll get back around to whatever you need.
00:22:02
Speaker
I don't know if, again, nature versus nurture, but men look out for number one.
00:22:07
Speaker
They learn that they are going to have to fight for their own interests early.
00:22:11
Speaker
So they're not thinking about
00:22:12
Speaker
about society and how it affects us.
00:22:15
Speaker
They're just like, oh, y'all wanted something?
00:22:18
Speaker
Right-wing people will be like, oh, you have to be a Madonna.
00:22:20
Speaker
Left-wing people will be like, you have to be a whore.
00:22:23
Speaker
FDS is over here saying, you don't have to be either, ladies.
00:22:26
Speaker
You are a whole-ass human being, okay?
00:22:28
Speaker
You don't have to do either of those things.
00:22:30
Speaker
You can do what you want.
00:22:31
Speaker
Because guess what?
00:22:32
Speaker
When you're a woman, you're going to be hated no matter what you do.
00:22:34
Speaker
If you have sex on the first date, you're a whore.
00:22:37
Speaker
If you don't have sex on the first date, you're
00:22:38
Speaker
You're a prude.
00:22:39
Speaker
So you may as well do what is going to advance your interest the most.
00:22:43
Speaker
And what I find so funny is, you know, men who have that attitude of like, do what I want and we'll see if it works out for you.
00:22:49
Speaker
Those same men get so pressed when they see FDS when we say pretty much the exact same thing, like buy me dinner and maybe I'll sleep with you three months from now kind of thing.
00:22:59
Speaker
They get so offended when we give them even 1% of the treatment that they give us.
00:23:05
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:23:06
Speaker
They don't like it.
00:23:07
Speaker
The fact that they think it's unjust when we do it just reveals the fact that it's unjust when they do it, period.
00:23:13
Speaker
And so if they're going to continue doing that to us, we get to protect ourselves.
00:23:17
Speaker
That's just life.
00:23:18
Speaker
And I get tired of the inaction too, because the other thing is that they, for some reason, believe that if we just all keep writing think pieces and informing men and educating men that they're suddenly going to see the light and start being more fair and equitable to us, it's
00:23:34
Speaker
And I just don't think that's how power works, especially not between men.
00:23:40
Speaker
A lot of times how power works with men is how you, if you have the type of social, economic, legal, or political power to leverage it in your favor.
00:23:50
Speaker
And so this idea that if we just write a million think pieces about how certain aspects of the culture are unfair, that suddenly men are all going to see the light seems to me to be really, really naive.
00:23:59
Speaker
Like you have to enforce consequences.
00:24:02
Speaker
And sometimes those consequences are
00:24:04
Speaker
They're around things that are thought to be double standards between men and women, especially around sex, which means that as women, we need to privilege ourselves in this area.
00:24:13
Speaker
You can't worry about how men feel about you turning them down for sex.
00:24:17
Speaker
Who cares?
00:24:17
Speaker
They don't really care how you feel about a dick pic that you got.
00:24:21
Speaker
Some guys care.
00:24:22
Speaker
And we would call a lot of these guys that actually make the effort to understand women high-value men.
00:24:27
Speaker
But how many men just like...
00:24:29
Speaker
you know, start with sexual innuendo, do all these things that are really highly threatening or make women uncomfortable and just don't have a care in the world about that.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
Like, about the whole million think pieces thing, it reminds me, I feel like as a culture, we've adopted this, like, same attitude.
00:24:44
Speaker
You know when you're in a relationship with, like, a low-value, really shitty man and you're trying to, like, communicate with him, like, yeah, I'd really like if you could, like, you know, reply to me faster than, like, 10 hours or, you know, I'd really like if you could remember...
00:24:57
Speaker
Could you give a single solitary fuck, please?
00:24:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:00
Speaker
Just one.
00:25:01
Speaker
It would be nice if you could, like, remember my birthday.
00:25:04
Speaker
Or I'd be lucky if you just give a shit about me, basically.
00:25:07
Speaker
Can you spare a fuck, my friend?
00:25:10
Speaker
Like when you're as a woman in a relationship, having to beg for like basic human decency, respect and acknowledgement, we know that that doesn't work.
00:25:17
Speaker
If you have to do that, just break up with them.
00:25:19
Speaker
Right.
00:25:19
Speaker
And that's why like as a culture, we just need to break up with men.
00:25:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:23
Speaker
Like if they're, if they're not going to listen to good faith, a standing ovation in the background.
00:25:28
Speaker
Thank you.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:30
Speaker
Women as a sort of union, so to speak.
00:25:33
Speaker
I'm very like pro-union, right?
00:25:34
Speaker
Like women as a union need to collaborate and demand, you know, better working conditions.
00:25:42
Speaker
It just seems to just regress when you've literally got women on Reddit, you know, asking how they can tell their boyfriend to wash their ass properly.
00:25:49
Speaker
Oh God.
00:25:49
Speaker
I have PTSD from those posts.
00:25:51
Speaker
I really do.
00:25:52
Speaker
I have secondhand PTSD.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:54
Speaker
That shit makes me go like,
00:25:55
Speaker
Okay, ladies, we need to have a general strike.
00:25:57
Speaker
Preach!
00:25:58
Speaker
Okay, we need to cut them off, okay?
00:26:01
Speaker
We're gonna Liza Strada the shit out of this issue, okay?
00:26:04
Speaker
I'm like halfway mad at her, because I'm like, sis, you need to hold the line.
00:26:08
Speaker
I'm mad at you right now.
00:26:09
Speaker
No!
00:26:10
Speaker
Nobody should have to beg a person to be washed.
00:26:15
Speaker
To be washed!
00:26:16
Speaker
That's where we're at in the gender wars.
00:26:18
Speaker
Begging them to wash themselves.
00:26:21
Speaker
And to not have shit in their ass crack.
00:26:23
Speaker
And that's actually such a good point because, you know, people will look at FDS and think that we're misogynists because we get mad at other women sometimes for accepting stupid shit from men.
00:26:34
Speaker
No, that's union politics, okay?
00:26:36
Speaker
Like, if someone crosses a picket line...
00:26:38
Speaker
You know, historically speaking, if someone crosses a picket line, they get fucking beat up, okay?
00:26:43
Speaker
Like... Grand allergy.
00:26:47
Speaker
You know, like, union members do not take kindly to people who break the strike and go to work anyways.
00:26:52
Speaker
As women, we get to feel angry at other women for, you know, kind of essentially being traitors to, you know, women as a political entity.
00:27:01
Speaker
And it isn't even anger at the woman.
00:27:03
Speaker
It's just, it's also for me, it's a profound sense of sadness that this woman doesn't realize that she's just fucking herself over in so many ways for a guy who doesn't wash his ass, who doesn't text her back.
00:27:16
Speaker
Like, it's so sad.
00:27:18
Speaker
The answers are so patronizing because it'll be like, hey, have you tried sprinkling a trail of soap crumbs to the bathroom?
00:27:24
Speaker
Or you can shower together, make it sex.
00:27:26
Speaker
I was like, what?
00:27:27
Speaker
You know, what is sexy about washing shades out of a guy's sunscreen?
00:27:33
Speaker
What?
00:27:35
Speaker
What?
00:27:37
Speaker
Give him a sponge bath when he's sleeping because then he'll know you're really in it to win it.
00:27:41
Speaker
That's how he'll know you're a ride or die chick is if you give him a, give his butthole a fucking sponge bath while he sleeps.
00:27:48
Speaker
That's how he knows you're wifey, wifey material.
00:27:51
Speaker
What?
00:27:52
Speaker
Like, ugh.
00:27:53
Speaker
Maybe he's depressed.
00:27:54
Speaker
You don't know what he's going through.
00:27:56
Speaker
I can't tell you how many posts I've seen on Reddit of like, my boyfriend doesn't brush his teeth.
00:28:00
Speaker
My boyfriend only showers once a week.
00:28:02
Speaker
My boyfriend never does laundry and wears the same pair of underwear like 20 days in a row.
00:28:08
Speaker
Like, do you remember the bed nest post where like the boyfriend slept in the nest and wanted her to sleep in the nest?
00:28:20
Speaker
on the floor and he would have had to sleep with it yeah women don't do that fucking shit and this is why we have the double standard because the things that men want for women is outrageous and the things that we want from men is to regularly clean themselves men want us to fuck like a porn star or whatever but uh women just want you to wash your butthole and your mouth okay
00:28:43
Speaker
The entire butthole.
00:28:45
Speaker
The entire butthole.
00:28:47
Speaker
The outside.
00:28:48
Speaker
All of it.
00:28:49
Speaker
If you can see it or feel it, you should wash it.
00:28:53
Speaker
If you can touch it, see it, or feel it, wash it, my friend.
00:28:57
Speaker
It is not gay to wash your own asshole.
00:29:07
Speaker
These are the things we're talking about.
00:29:11
Speaker
How are we going to be equal in this market where we are nowhere near the same standard?
00:29:17
Speaker
There's just no way.
00:29:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:19
Speaker
I think we had a post a while ago.
00:29:20
Speaker
A while back, that was like, talking about the 80-20 rule and how like, oh, 80% of women only go for the top 20% of guys.
00:29:29
Speaker
And we were basically like, no, the reality is that 80% of women are quite literally equal in value to 20% of men.
00:29:39
Speaker
It just so happens that 80% of men are trash and inferior to those 80% of women.
00:29:45
Speaker
And then, of course, we got all the like, oh my gosh, that's my century.
00:29:49
Speaker
You're saying that women are superior.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yes, that is exactly what we are saying.
00:29:54
Speaker
Women are superior.
00:29:56
Speaker
Say it loud and say it proud, ladies.
00:29:59
Speaker
Feel it in your spirit.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:00
Speaker
We deserve so much better than that shit.
00:30:03
Speaker
And it's only when you organize in a union, you know, in a place like FDS, that you really, really see just the bar is so, so low for men.
00:30:12
Speaker
And a lot of them still can't reach it.
00:30:15
Speaker
The bar is low for men.
00:30:17
Speaker
It is low.
00:30:19
Speaker
Low.
00:30:20
Speaker
The bar is being flossed through the devil's butt cheeks right now.
00:30:25
Speaker
And it came out with skid marks.
00:30:27
Speaker
Like Hades in hell is using it to do the limbo.
00:30:32
Speaker
That is how low the bar is.
00:30:34
Speaker
And he's literally like sliding on the floor.
00:30:37
Speaker
Yeah, so all these people going on about double standards.
00:30:40
Speaker
I'm like, get fucked, okay?
00:30:41
Speaker
Do you know?
00:30:42
Speaker
Have you seen men?
00:30:50
Speaker
Oh, my abs hurt from laughing.
00:30:51
Speaker
Great segment.
00:30:52
Speaker
Great segment, ladies.
00:30:53
Speaker
Great segment.
00:30:56
Speaker
High quality content.
00:30:57
Speaker
This is what the people come to hear.
Potential for Change in Men
00:30:59
Speaker
So on this segment of the female dating strategy podcast, we are going to take some questions from ask FBS, the subreddit and answer them live and have a little live discussion.
00:31:12
Speaker
So we have a question here that says, do low value men change?
00:31:18
Speaker
The poster is thinking about this as she was reflecting on and laughing about, because if you don't laugh sometimes you'll cry, right?
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:51
Speaker
Or is the concept of high value something that's pretty stable and embedded in a man's character?
00:31:58
Speaker
So essentially, the poster is asking, do low value men change once they're through with you?
00:32:04
Speaker
And I'm going to go on a limp here and say...
00:32:07
Speaker
It's possible for people to change.
00:32:09
Speaker
But in the case of low value men, I think is extremely unlikely.
00:32:13
Speaker
A lot of their habits, beliefs, and behavioural patterns have been embedded in them for a very, very long time.
00:32:21
Speaker
And
00:32:22
Speaker
if you think about, say, if you have a, you know, like a bad habit, right?
00:32:26
Speaker
Say, I mean, because I tend to, for example, I tend to rock in chairs, which don't have a back.
00:32:32
Speaker
I was called rocking horse in school.
00:32:34
Speaker
It was a subconscious thing, but I rock in chairs.
00:32:37
Speaker
I didn't even notice until my friend said it.
00:32:38
Speaker
But anyway, if I was to try and stop that habit, it would be very, very difficult because it's something I've been doing for a very, very long time.
00:32:48
Speaker
And, you
00:32:49
Speaker
It's ingrained in my movement pattern.
00:32:51
Speaker
So if you think of something like that, and then you try and apply that to say, a man who has been treating me badly for a very, very long time, he didn't learn that behaviour when he was with you.
00:33:05
Speaker
Those thought patterns were there already.
00:33:07
Speaker
And even if I was reading, you know, Why Does He Do That by Lindy Bancroft, we often like to say, well, men should just go to therapy.
00:33:16
Speaker
But actually therapy, it doesn't necessarily fix a man.
00:33:20
Speaker
It can actually make him worse because...
00:33:23
Speaker
It gives him the ammunition to justify his abusive nature, essentially.
00:33:30
Speaker
So that was a very, very long-winded of saying, it depends, but I think it's very unlikely.
00:33:35
Speaker
And, you know, we only, especially on social media, we only see the highlights of people's relationships, you know.
00:33:41
Speaker
This is why when people or celebrities break up, everybody acts shocked because...
00:33:48
Speaker
they're only posting the highlights of their relationship.
00:33:50
Speaker
We don't actually know what's happening behind closed doors.
00:33:54
Speaker
And social media is very, very much about smoke and mirrors.
00:33:59
Speaker
So...
00:34:01
Speaker
It might be true that he's married with a child and others in relationships, but it doesn't actually mean that he's changed fundamentally.
00:34:09
Speaker
I think what happens with a lot of these low value men is that they just find a woman who is willing to overlook a lot of their poor behaviour and hence why they settle down in quotation marks.
00:34:23
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:34:25
Speaker
What do you guys think about that?
00:34:26
Speaker
I definitely agree with that.
00:34:27
Speaker
People can change.
00:34:28
Speaker
It's just not likely.
00:34:29
Speaker
And it also depends on what the character trait was that made him low value.
00:34:36
Speaker
And also their age, right?
00:34:38
Speaker
I think if they're over 40, forget it.
00:34:40
Speaker
There's no way.
00:34:41
Speaker
Like at that point, you know what I'm saying?
00:34:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're expired goods if you're over 40.
00:34:46
Speaker
And you still got to tell them like basic stuff.
00:34:48
Speaker
And this is why I would even argue maybe over 35 because we talk about a lot of these guys in their mid to late 30s or even early 30s who suddenly want to get a much younger woman because they have not matured their entire teens, 20s, and now their 30s.
00:35:03
Speaker
And so they're still trying to find women who they are at age.
00:35:06
Speaker
you know, emotionally and mentally.
00:35:08
Speaker
I think, I think a man has to want to change and have to, has to demonstrate that he's changing because he has a level of empathy or actually wants to be in a position where he can be a better partner.
00:35:22
Speaker
I think it actually really depends on his mindset about it.
00:35:26
Speaker
Like there's a lot of guys that make superficial changes just because their ex-girlfriend used to nag about it.
00:35:30
Speaker
And, and those are the guys that,
00:35:33
Speaker
They haven't really changed.
00:35:34
Speaker
They've just learned how to virtue signal a certain way to make it look like they're a better person because they'll be like, well, my ex-girlfriend used to nag all the time that I never used to do the dishes.
00:35:46
Speaker
So then the next thing they do is they post the one time that they did the dishes on Instagram, you know?
00:35:52
Speaker
And they do stuff like that because they're trying to look like I'm not the problem or I've changed or I'm better than this.
00:35:58
Speaker
But fundamentally, the girlfriend still has to ask them to do that.
00:36:01
Speaker
They haven't really started doing this more because they feel like they should pull their fair share.
00:36:05
Speaker
They're just trying to prove a point and or do it to be antagonistic to their ex-girlfriend and or try to deny that they're the problem.
00:36:13
Speaker
Right.
00:36:13
Speaker
I think stuff like that is the inability to empathize with women or work with them.
00:36:19
Speaker
work with us as complete people, that's something that's really, really, really hard for a man to change if he is not in the habit of doing that and he hasn't gotten in the habit of doing that and listening to that young.
00:36:30
Speaker
I agree 100%.
00:36:31
Speaker
I think we're all on the same page because the behaviors that cause a man to be low value are things that he's probably learned since childhood.
00:36:38
Speaker
And additionally, there are behaviors that largely benefit him, right?
00:36:43
Speaker
And so another thing that Lundy Bancroft says is that the reason why abusive men or, you know, shitty men are the way that they are is because it's beneficial to them.
00:36:52
Speaker
They are incentivized to continue to be that way.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, it gets them what they want.
00:36:56
Speaker
It gets them what they want, which is either, you know, female attention or servitude or sex or, you know, not having to do work or it gets them out of having to do chores or whatever.
00:37:07
Speaker
And so, so long as they continue to benefit from being that way, they, there is no incentive for them to change.
00:37:13
Speaker
Very few men will change just because it's like the right thing to do.
00:37:18
Speaker
They just don't think that way.
00:37:19
Speaker
They don't think the way that women do.
00:37:22
Speaker
Even something like the NoFap movement, right?
00:37:24
Speaker
We think it's a wonderful thing that men are quitting pornography.
00:37:28
Speaker
But if we delve into the reasons as to why they're doing it, very, very few of them are quitting pornography because of the abuse of women.
00:37:36
Speaker
You know, they're quitting it because, you know, they've got erectile dysfunction or they can't perform sexually or it's impacting their work relationships.
00:37:44
Speaker
It's never really because...
00:37:46
Speaker
You know, they've sat down and thought, this is actually a really, you know, shitty thing to happen to women.
00:37:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:37:51
Speaker
And that's why, you know, abusive men, for example, are fundamentally to their core are abusive people.
00:37:58
Speaker
And they might not act like that with every single person they meet.
00:38:01
Speaker
They will only act like that with the people that they think that they can get away with it.
00:38:05
Speaker
And so when you see, you know, say you break up with someone who's abusive and then you go on to see him, you know, having a great relationship on Instagram, don't look at that as though, oh, like he was abusive to me, but now he found this better woman and now he's like changed for her.
00:38:19
Speaker
No, chances are behind closed doors, he's probably just as abusive to her as he was to you.
00:38:24
Speaker
And so you shouldn't let yourself feel bad about that because you're not the problem.
00:38:28
Speaker
He is.
00:38:29
Speaker
100% and you can notice like for example men don't wake up one morning randomly and start thinking oh I'm really gonna treat Savannah like shit like this is learned this is pattern behavior they've they if you show me a low value man I will show you a string of women he has damaged and abused you're not the random mutation relationship where it all goes wrong from you that's that's not
00:38:54
Speaker
I mean, even though they may want you to believe that you're the problem, but you're not actually the problem.
00:38:58
Speaker
The problem is them.
00:38:59
Speaker
Exactly.
00:38:59
Speaker
Abusive men will actually say like, you're the only person who makes me treat you like this.
00:39:04
Speaker
Oh God, it's a liar.
00:39:06
Speaker
oh that's what my ex used to say that's what my ex he was always like i never it's only with you like i i only get aggressive with you and i believed it for a long time but then i thought you know i met him when he was 25 you can't tell me that i all of a sudden made him like shouty and abusive at 25 and another
00:39:24
Speaker
thing I've noticed is a lot of women seem to think that, you know, low value or abusive men, they think that they're like these, like calculating, conniving, that they're doing, that, you know, in their mind when they're, say, gaslighting you or love bombing you or whatever, that in their head they're going, I'm going to gaslight you to cause you to question your perception of reality and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:45
Speaker
No, they're not consciously doing it.
00:39:47
Speaker
These are all, like, habits that they've developed because it's served them in the past.
00:39:51
Speaker
It's a behavior that's yielded them positive results,
00:39:54
Speaker
in the past.
00:39:55
Speaker
And so they're just going to continue to do that.
00:39:57
Speaker
I think a lot of abusive people don't even seem to realize that they're abusive.
00:40:01
Speaker
They just think that that's normal.
00:40:03
Speaker
And so, you know, when you tell a guy like, oh, you're gaslighting me or, oh, you're love bombing me or something like that, they'll actually be confused because they are not that aware of their behavior.
00:40:15
Speaker
There are some guys, granted, there are some guys who are actually calculating like that, like the true, like, narcissist, the true...
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah, the true Connors, the true narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, but they're like, what, 10% of the population or something?
00:40:30
Speaker
We can't just keep pretending like, oh, it's only a small percentage of men who are bad.
00:40:34
Speaker
Like, I'd say 80% of men are low value or just like emotionally abusive simply because...
00:40:41
Speaker
That's just what they've learned to be normal.
00:40:43
Speaker
Our culture incentivizes that.
00:40:46
Speaker
And more specifically, a lot of these guys learn from childhood that they can get away with the barest.
00:40:52
Speaker
And I mean the barest of minimums when it comes to investing in their family, investing in other people.
00:40:59
Speaker
And I think a lot of that has to do with how a lot of our sons are raised to be these kind of consumerist actors.
00:41:07
Speaker
I mean, they spend so much of their time worrying about themselves.
00:41:11
Speaker
And then we talk about this sometimes, too, where a lot of times women and girls are socialized to worry about the family and the group very early on.
00:41:18
Speaker
But for whatever reason, this last crop of men didn't get that.
00:41:22
Speaker
It's not the same as maybe back in the olden days where...
00:41:26
Speaker
both men and women worked on the farm and they got up at the crack of dawn and there was sort of a well-rounded investment in community.
00:41:36
Speaker
I've kind of noticed that women are still investing in community and family and a lot of times men have just become...
00:41:42
Speaker
consumers.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I think once these guys get these consumer mentality where I can contribute, I don't have to clean my room or I'm only going to clean it when my mom yells at me.
00:41:50
Speaker
I'm only going to like play video games all the time and watch porn.
00:41:54
Speaker
You know, they don't necessarily snap out of that kind of mindset, whereas everybody else, everything just happens magically around them and learn to connect with people and how to have reciprocal relationships with their immediate family, as well as their community at large.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:12
Speaker
The other thing I want to point out is like with abusive people, Savannah brought up Lundy Bancroft.
00:42:17
Speaker
The other point with Lundy Bancroft that really blew my mind.
00:42:19
Speaker
And Lundy Bancroft, for people who didn't know, that's the author of the Why Does He Do That book about men who are abusive, right?
00:42:27
Speaker
Why Does He Do That?
00:42:28
Speaker
Understanding the Minds of Angry Men, I think is the title.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
But at the core of an abusive person's psyche is entitlement.
00:42:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:39
Speaker
They think that they are entitled to your deference, to your servitude, to your attention, to have sex with you, whatever it is, right?
00:42:49
Speaker
They feel entitled to own you.
00:42:51
Speaker
And they feel that they are entitled to use any means necessary, whether it's through, like, emotional manipulation or even going as far as physical abuse, right?
00:43:01
Speaker
He's not physically abusive because, you know, his mom didn't hug him enough as a child.
00:43:06
Speaker
He's abusive because, you know, Lundy Bancroft goes through
00:43:10
Speaker
um, and debunks all of these myths, right?
00:43:13
Speaker
And then finally gets to the point of like, no, they are like that because they feel entitled.
00:43:18
Speaker
They feel entitled to use any means necessary, even force in order to continue to get the things that benefit them.
00:43:23
Speaker
And that is why ultimately like low value and negative value men will never change because at the core of their psyche is entitlement.
00:43:31
Speaker
And nobody who is super entitled just wakes up one morning and goes, you know what?
00:43:36
Speaker
I've been a bad person.
00:43:37
Speaker
You know, I'm going to do right by all the people I've hurt in the past.
00:43:40
Speaker
I'm going to change and become a better person.
00:43:43
Speaker
No, like if anything, they'll just adapt and become better manipulators.
00:43:46
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:46
Speaker
They don't change the fundamental character flaw.
00:43:49
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:43:50
Speaker
In order to change who you are as a person, you have to admit that you're wrong.
00:43:54
Speaker
You have to want to change.
00:43:56
Speaker
You have to be willing to put in the work, not just going to therapy, but actually like in your outside of the therapy session, your day-to-day life, you have to want to change those things.
00:44:05
Speaker
And based on what I see in men, that is a very rare personality trait.
00:44:10
Speaker
Especially if they get in a relationship shortly after they break up with you.
00:44:14
Speaker
Like he's not magically better for that woman he's dating three months after you guys broke up.
00:44:18
Speaker
I mean, that's impossible.
00:44:19
Speaker
It would have to be a year at least to me between your relationship and the next one where you can see this person actively.
00:44:27
Speaker
Not that you should be stalking your ex's social media anyways, girl.
00:44:31
Speaker
Log off, first of all.
00:44:33
Speaker
But anyways, if you...
00:44:35
Speaker
But let's say you were, you would have to see, you know, close to a year of this guy making, I'm going to therapy.
00:44:43
Speaker
I'm working on my physical and mental health, like a dedication to self-improvement with, you know, it's a lot of times, very few men are, even if they are doing it, are willing to admit it publicly anyway, but also most men aren't doing it.
00:44:56
Speaker
So if you don't see anything that's indicating any of that, there's just no way.
00:45:01
Speaker
A lot of guys will get straight up hostile if you imply that they need to improve.
00:45:07
Speaker
Like incels, for example, get angry when they're like, oh, like you keep telling me I have to improve my personality.
00:45:14
Speaker
Like, this is why you're full of shit for telling me I have to improve.
00:45:17
Speaker
Like, they actively do not want to improve.
00:45:20
Speaker
And just the feedback I get from men on Reddit, it's like they're so lacking in empathy.
00:45:24
Speaker
I mean, yeah, granted, like not every, the average man is not the same as the average redditor.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yeah, they're bottom barrel men.
00:45:31
Speaker
Redditors to your men.
00:45:32
Speaker
Um, but, uh, you know, the feedback that I get from men is very much like, I don't have to change.
00:45:39
Speaker
I'm perfect just the way I am.
00:45:40
Speaker
I don't feel any empathy for you as a woman.
00:45:42
Speaker
All the rest of my girlfriends didn't have a problem with this.
00:45:45
Speaker
I don't know what your problem is.
00:45:46
Speaker
And also if that was true, then where are they?
00:45:50
Speaker
If they didn't have a problem with you, where are they?
00:45:52
Speaker
Why aren't you married?
00:45:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:53
Speaker
Why didn't you marry them?
00:45:54
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:54
Speaker
This is the first time I'm hearing of this.
00:45:56
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:45:58
Speaker
Exactly.
00:45:59
Speaker
And that's the, when they say this is the first time I'm hearing of it, probably they have heard it before, they just chose not to listen.
00:46:04
Speaker
Right.
00:46:04
Speaker
This is the first time I'm choosing to listen to this.
00:46:07
Speaker
It's the first time I've heard it from you, more like.
00:46:10
Speaker
The from you is silent.
00:46:11
Speaker
And then they have a memory of a goldfish, so they'll probably go on to the next girlfriend and, like, totally forget about all of the things that she said, unless it's to serve his interests, right?
00:46:19
Speaker
Right.
00:46:20
Speaker
And the other thing that's important to remember is, like, men and women are socialized very differently to value, like, improvement.
00:46:26
Speaker
Like, women are raised to be very self-critical, to always put the blame on themselves.
00:46:30
Speaker
And while this is harmful, at the same time, it means that women are capable of, like, admitting fault and improving when it is necessary.
00:46:38
Speaker
Men are socialized to not scrutinize themselves.
00:46:41
Speaker
They're socialized to externalize blame, blame other people.
00:46:45
Speaker
They're always the good boy in their mind or whatever.
00:46:48
Speaker
And so, I just don't think they're mentally capable of doing what it takes to improve.
Friendships with Exes
00:46:54
Speaker
They've crippled themselves psychologically.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:46:58
Speaker
On to the second question.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yeah, let's go to the second question.
00:47:01
Speaker
How do you feel about a man who is friends with his exes?
00:47:05
Speaker
So this user is saying that I think her boyfriend is using the logic that they've moved on and are dating other people.
00:47:14
Speaker
So the boyfriend and the ex have moved on.
00:47:16
Speaker
And they also share the same friendship circle.
00:47:21
Speaker
The poster is saying he also talks to women that he used to fuck.
00:47:27
Speaker
And she's also, and she finishes with, I bet he wouldn't be okay if I talk to my exes regularly.
00:47:34
Speaker
Now being friends with an ex is a tricky topic.
00:47:39
Speaker
I'm not saying, I mean, I wouldn't say it's impossible to be friends with an ex, but I would say at the minimum,
00:47:48
Speaker
A lot of time it needs to have passed where you have no contact.
00:47:52
Speaker
I'm talking years, not months here.
00:47:53
Speaker
Especially if you shared a romantic relationship or even if you have sex with a person, I think the dynamics of the relationship are forever changed.
00:48:02
Speaker
It can't just go back to what it was pre-sex.
00:48:05
Speaker
And I am a bit weary of men who keep exes around like he is the sun and all the planets orbiting around him.
00:48:13
Speaker
I mean, I've been stung by the whole, I'm just friends with my ex before.
00:48:17
Speaker
And it turned out he was sexting her whenever we had an argument.
00:48:20
Speaker
So I'm a bit jaded by the whole thing personally.
00:48:24
Speaker
But I also think that, you know, the main question this woman needs to ask is, okay, what is his...
00:48:31
Speaker
you know, rationale for being friends with, you know, with an ex.
00:48:35
Speaker
Like, what is keeping him tied to this person?
00:48:38
Speaker
If you're just looking for friends, then you can easily find more friends.
00:48:42
Speaker
I think, you know, what is, you know, tying him to this person in particular, that is what she needs to investigate.
00:48:48
Speaker
But even still, like, if she's not comfortable with it, I think it is a very, very valid boundary to have, especially if, you know, the boyfriend and the ex have slept together and they were in a relationship.
00:49:01
Speaker
I think it's dodgy territory.
00:49:03
Speaker
Personally, I think exes can be civil, but having a close friendship for me is a no.
00:49:11
Speaker
It's just a no.
00:49:11
Speaker
Like if a guy I was talking to was in regular contact with his ex, I would probably swerve that, to be honest, because...
00:49:19
Speaker
The drama's just, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
00:49:22
Speaker
The potential for drama and the constantly, you know, second guessing, what if it's more, what if it's more.
00:49:28
Speaker
It's just not worth it to me.
00:49:30
Speaker
And I don't, and I don't speak to any of my exes either.
00:49:32
Speaker
So I think that's a fair boundary, um, to have if I'm not doing the same.
00:49:37
Speaker
Yeah, I get really confused by these types of questions because after I break up with someone, I never speak to them again.
00:49:43
Speaker
I don't even care if we have mutual friends.
00:49:44
Speaker
If they choose that guy over me, I dump the whole friend group.
00:49:48
Speaker
I just move on and I just make new friends.
00:49:50
Speaker
Just get the scissors, chop chop.
00:49:52
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:52
Speaker
I just, like, I've never hesitated to cut people off if I have any kind of, like, negative emotional association with them whatsoever.
00:49:59
Speaker
The only situation I can think of where it would be okay to be friends with an ex is if you have a child with them and you have to have, like, a co-parenting relationship.
00:50:08
Speaker
Like, that's the only...
00:50:10
Speaker
The only, like, logical... Like, but that's because you have a child holding you together, right?
00:50:14
Speaker
If there's nothing else holding you together, like, why?
00:50:17
Speaker
Why would you do that?
00:50:18
Speaker
But even then, though, Lilith, like, if we look at some of the step-pairing subreddits, even those situations go to complete hell, because when the woman is the step-pair, she quickly finds that, you know, the man often prioritizes the ex or the mother of his children above her as well.
00:50:35
Speaker
So even that situation, it's...
00:50:38
Speaker
understandable why they would be friends or close, but is it advisable to get into that situation?
00:50:44
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:50:45
Speaker
Yeah, I guess there's a difference between having a friendly co-parenting relationship and like still having feelings for your ex.
00:50:52
Speaker
Like if he's putting his ex-wife over
00:50:55
Speaker
If he's putting her over the girlfriend in the sense that it's for the benefit of the children, okay, I can see that.
00:51:04
Speaker
But if it's just not for the benefit of the children, it's just because he still has feelings for her or whatever, then yeah, next that guy.
00:51:10
Speaker
What?
00:51:10
Speaker
There's always the other thing about being quote unquote friends is what exactly does that mean?
00:51:15
Speaker
Does that mean he's calling and texting them?
00:51:17
Speaker
If that's the case, then absolutely not.
00:51:19
Speaker
If they're just if it's some person he dated in high school that he's had on his Facebook forever or something, and, you know, he's now in his 30s.
00:51:27
Speaker
I don't know that I'm necessarily as...
00:51:30
Speaker
I don't know, bothered by it.
00:51:32
Speaker
But again, when we say friends, I think we're trying to say someone who's actively engaging still with a person they used to date.
00:51:38
Speaker
And I think that is impossible.
00:51:40
Speaker
I think that's a situation that definitely, no, you can't still be invested in a relationship with a person that you used to have sex with and then try to invest in a relationship with a new person who you are now having sex with and expect those interests not to compete at times.
00:51:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah, it depends how close they are as friends.
00:51:58
Speaker
If it's just Facebook friends, like, they don't talk that often, then yeah, okay, that's fine.
00:52:03
Speaker
But if, like, I actually did date a guy whose best friend, like, top, like, best friend since elementary school was also a woman he had, like, dated for five years.
00:52:12
Speaker
Like, they were best friends since elementary school, they dated for five years, and then they broke up, and then he started dating me.
00:52:18
Speaker
And just the emotional baggage of that just...
00:52:21
Speaker
No, I, we only dated for like two months, but it was just creepy to see, like actually hung out with them as a group.
00:52:27
Speaker
Like he invited me to hang out with his friends a few times.
00:52:30
Speaker
And just seeing the way that like they sat next to each other, like she would like put her hand on his thigh and like, just they would like touch each other and just like, I don't know, I just felt so I felt like the third wheel in that situation.
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, period.
00:52:41
Speaker
actively still engaging with each other in that manner, I think that's not a tenable situation.
00:52:46
Speaker
I don't think you can be friends with your ex in that capacity.
00:52:49
Speaker
I think it's only if, yeah, like you guys already said, if they have a child or if you're like cursory acquaintances, like say they work in your industry or something and you have them on your LinkedIn page, stuff like that where...
00:53:03
Speaker
they're sort of peripheral people that you didn't necessarily actively go and remove from all your social media, but they're not people you're talking to, right?
00:53:12
Speaker
And I think that's what you really have to gauge when it comes to friends with an ex.
00:53:17
Speaker
Because I don't think you can, I think you can be acquaintances, perhaps, especially, and also I think there's a city slash rural divide on this one, the more I think about it.
00:53:26
Speaker
Because I think if you live in a large city, it's really easy to make all these small connections with people that you're,
00:53:33
Speaker
Oh, follow my Instagram, follow my Facebook, follow my LinkedIn.
00:53:35
Speaker
You go out to the club, you meet people through work events, and you have all these cursory peripheral friends on your Facebook.
00:53:44
Speaker
But I think if you are in a smaller town or you have a close-knit group of friends you've always known, it gets a little weirder to try to extricate yourself from that situation.
00:53:53
Speaker
I think it's easier to cut off...
00:53:55
Speaker
acquaintances that you're not that close with than it is sometimes with people you've known for a very, very, very long time.
Trusting Women's Intuition
00:54:01
Speaker
And like you have a smaller community.
00:54:03
Speaker
Yeah, in a big city, it's easier to cut people off.
00:54:05
Speaker
It's easier to make new friends in a smaller community.
00:54:07
Speaker
That's not the case.
00:54:08
Speaker
So that's another exception.
00:54:10
Speaker
But as a general rule, I'd say it's a red flag.
00:54:13
Speaker
And it isn't even just the ex, though.
00:54:16
Speaker
He also talks to women he's had sex with as well.
00:54:19
Speaker
So, yeah, this guy sounds like he's collecting a harem of women, to be honest, because he's also talking to women he's, like, shagged casually.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's a no from me, dog.
00:54:30
Speaker
This is a no.
00:54:31
Speaker
Abort.
00:54:32
Speaker
Abort.
00:54:33
Speaker
The other important thing to remember is that it doesn't really matter what the situation is between them if it's making you uncomfortable.
00:54:41
Speaker
This.
00:54:41
Speaker
If your intuition is saying like, this is kind of shady, like this doesn't sit right with me.
00:54:46
Speaker
If it makes you uncomfortable, you know, don't subject yourself to that.
00:54:50
Speaker
Oh, are they or aren't they kind of thing?
00:54:52
Speaker
Like, just just move on.
00:54:53
Speaker
There's plenty of fish in the sea.
00:54:56
Speaker
100% like I wish you know I had acted on that when my ex told me he was still talking to his ex I remember I felt really weird about it like at the time and he was all why are you weird about it um it turns out my intuition was correct so yes don't be like me and if it is making you feel uncomfortable that is reason enough to set your boundaries you don't necessarily have to catch them in anything before you know your spidey sense goes off like
00:55:23
Speaker
women need to stop gaslighting themselves like they need to be like spider-man like when you know spider-man spidey sense went off even if he was in a situation that looked harmless he always acted on it i'm really into spider-man at the moment i just thought that was a good analogy but yeah be more be more like spider-man when your spidey sense goes off
00:55:43
Speaker
you know, you need to be on alert.
00:55:44
Speaker
That is when you have to really, really assess your surroundings and see if everything is really what it seems.
00:55:51
Speaker
Because a woman's intuition is so important, for any women listening to this, I just want to reassure you that, you know, you're not crazy.
00:55:59
Speaker
You know, your boyfriend or whoever is probably going to try to, like, gaslight you and be like, oh, you're being irrational, you're being crazy, like, nothing's happening, blah, blah, blah.
00:56:07
Speaker
Like, chances are, if you think that something is wrong, there probably is something wrong and you don't need to be gaslight and you definitely don't need to gaslight yourself.
00:56:17
Speaker
And the friend should know better too, because I've had male friends before and when they got in relationships, I backed off and nobody had to tell me.
00:56:24
Speaker
I just sort of realized like, okay, I like this person.
00:56:27
Speaker
It's the person I want to see happy and in a good relationship, meaning like they're truly my friend and it's not about me and all the attention they can give to me.
00:56:34
Speaker
Now, sometimes it meant like...
00:56:36
Speaker
Oh, you know, if I had something I wanted to do or talk about that I would normally be like invite, you know, my male friend, maybe some female friends and I would back off.
00:56:43
Speaker
But, and I would think, man, it would be really nice if they would come.
00:56:45
Speaker
But I also would understand, you know, this person, they're building a new friend group with the person that they're dating.
00:56:53
Speaker
And I think you have to allow people that you love the space to grow, you know, in their own direction.
00:56:57
Speaker
So I think even...
00:56:58
Speaker
You know, if you're on the other side and you're a woman, you have a male friend and you see that he's getting into a new relationship, I think if that's really your friend, you need to back off and let that person grow in the direction that they need to grow.
00:57:09
Speaker
And that's an important point about friends is that it should be about, like, if you're truly friends, you should have the emotional maturity and wherewithal to, like, put the other person first when appropriate.
00:57:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:57:22
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:57:23
Speaker
And on that note, that's our show.
00:57:24
Speaker
Please make sure to visit our website at thefemaledatingstrategy.com as well as our new Patreon, patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy.
00:57:33
Speaker
Thank you for listening, queens.
00:57:34
Speaker
And for all you lurking stay-at-home sons, die mad.
00:57:38
Speaker
And we'll see you next week.