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It Ain't a Strong Back that Breaks a Shovel but a Weak Mind
53 Plays3 months ago
In this episode Patrick and Andrew are joined by Braxton McCoy to discuss his time in Iraq, trauma, PTSD, authenticity, writing, and the wisdom that comes from age.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
and the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins as surely as water will wet us as surely as fire will burn the gods of the coffee book headings with terror and slaughter returned
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the Copybook Headings podcast. If you're a new listener, just joining us for the first time. This show is inspired by the poem by Rudyard Kipling called The Gods of the Copybook Headings. And every week we take an old saying proverb or maxim and we break it down to see what we can learn from it and see if there's still any ancient wisdom that's relevant today.
Guest Introduction: Braxton McCoy
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm your host Patrick Payne, and with me as always is my co-host Andrew Stevens. Andrew, how are you doing, bud?
00:00:54
Speaker
I'm doing great tonight. Excited. Yeah, me too. We got to got an interesting guest. We've got the great Braxton McCoy joining us. ah Author, ah cowboy and veteran and all around interesting guys. So Braxton, thanks so much for coming on, man. Thanks for having me, brother. It's um it's it's not actually, I get invited to podcasts here and there. It's not every day that I get to do a podcast with a guy that's actually a friend. you know So that's pretty cool.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Heck yeah, man.
Proverb Insights and Personal Reflections
00:01:26
Speaker
I'm very glad we've been, we've been like threatening to do it for a long time and I'm glad we finally, able but finally put a put a day on it. And so. we're able to come do it. so yeah This is going to be a fun one. this is um we always we always ah um I think it's fun when the guest picks the pro picks the proverb, and I had a couple maybe in mind for you, but then you you threw this one at us, and I thought it was super cool. so um The proverb that we're doing this week, well, Braxton, you want you want to tell us which one you you picked picked for us?
00:01:56
Speaker
ah Yeah, ah I remember I was somewhere around Nine years old eight ten somewhere in that ballpark. It's it's hard to it's hard to remember exactly but we were Building fans and I was starting to get a little like a little be you know starting to have a little ah ah Traps or something, you know what I mean? like my back was starting to fill out maybe a little tiny bit and ah I busted this shovel and
00:02:26
Speaker
digging this post hole and I thought that was going to be like pretty cool. oh You know, I thought the man would be like, dang, that kid's strong or whatever.
Life Challenges and Resilience
00:02:37
Speaker
And my grandpa wrote over and um he said, ain't a strong back, breaks a shovel, but a weak mind. Yeah, excellent. Thought about that for Decades it applies, to i mean you know, it's it's very much a You know construction man ah yeah yeah You know, it's very much like pleb ah Sort of like pleb
00:03:07
Speaker
I don't know, like pleb proverbs, but... Yeah, pleb wisdom. Yeah, yeah, pleb wisdom maybe is the way to say it. Yeah, yeah. ah But it does apply to a lot of shit and you start like thinking a little bit more about it and it's helped a bunch of times, you know.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, so no, I think it's a great one. um So I'm excited to kind of dig into that one a little bit and talk about kind of some other ways. It's always it's kind of relevant in life. um But well, I probably should back up and just have people maybe introduce yourself. Tell tell people a little bit about who you are and your background and and kind of get to know who you are before we before we go too much further into it. um I grew up on a horse ranch in southern Utah.
00:03:52
Speaker
um
00:03:55
Speaker
grew up kind of cowboying down there and then I joined the army and I wrestled in high school and played some baseball and then and then I coach wrestling for a while and yeah I had some experiences in the army I got pretty screwed up and I got wounded pretty good and they retired me and I kind of had to start over and I think one part that gets a little bit missed sometimes every once in a while and And sort of the storytelling is I spent a few years working in on the corporate side, mostly doing like outreach and inside sales stuff. Cause it was all I could do. I was on two canes. I could barely move around. And, uh, I had a and NCO, a non-commissioned officer guy.
00:04:48
Speaker
and really helped me out and hooked me up with a company that was willing to hire me and give me, give me a shot to do some of that work that I had absolutely no business doing. Cause I didn't, you know, I had no work experience of any kind, uh, sort of in that venue. So I, or in that vein and I got pretty lucky and I did some years doing that a few, uh, three, four or five years, something like that. And then, um, finally got,
00:05:17
Speaker
a little bit better and physically and was able to kind of go back to, you know, to, um, what I know and, and still love, even though like it's, it's been this last dude, this last, um, like 12, 12, 14 months has been a little bit difficult. I, I busted my back again last year ah and, yeah, freaking broke the,
00:05:48
Speaker
the little transverse processy off of my I think it's my L2 or something. Geez. The bust of that off and I bent the rod in my left my left hip got a ba so bend myself. It's like it's been a little bit of a this year's been kind of a It's been like a how old are you moment?
00:06:09
Speaker
i But yeah, so I guess that's the background is just kind of getting my life back to where I i like it night, you know, um I still maintain whatever it takes to be able to have three meals a day with my boys and watch them learn how to read and and write and just I'm not going to quit doing what I do, but yeah. Anyway, the sacrifices can be real, I guess, in some and some ways. but Yeah, man. It sucks. I never had ah as big of an injury as you had, but i've I've had back and neck problems for most of my life from doing stupid stuff when I was younger and I had a freaking neck surgery, two neck surgeries in the last 12 months and it's been freaking no fun.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, I remember you you were texting about rolling. and i'm I'm like, bro, we're old as shit, dude. You trying to roll with a neck brace on?
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, I was just into jujitsu the other day, and and my coach was like, man, you keep disappearing on me. He's like, I can't promote you. And if you you don't show up more, you're too good for your belt rank currently, but you're beating up on all
Proverb Application in Life
00:07:25
Speaker
the younger guys. But I was like, man, I've come in when I can. but So I don't know. We'll see if I can get in there. and It doesn't matter, I guess belts don't matter, but um anyway. um Yeah, I want to kick kick it over to Andrew. Had you ever heard this proverb before or how familiar were were you with it? No, I've not heard this one. i think the I think the sentiment is familiar, you know, the maybe work smarter, not harder type of thing. um But I'm really curious on this one, like, you kind of got into where you heard this one, like, how did you
00:08:01
Speaker
Like, how did you receive it when you were a kid? Like, how did you it influence you? And then through stages of your life where you were, you know, debilitated compared to what you've been able to do physically when you were younger and then getting that back, getting your, your, your physical abilities back. Like at what at different stages, like how did you relate to this proverb? so yeah First of all, let me apologize for my dogs. I don't know how to make that no do that.
00:08:30
Speaker
um that's a uh I I was oh my goodness um that was not helpful uh so I was young oh I could say like 10 um and my grandfather it was actually my great-grandfather that come and said that he I'm gonna walk in this house and just hold this computer and hopefully that will be At least we won't have to hear the dogs barking. um and And that great grandpa, I'm gonna pour some coffee actually as we talk about this, that particular great grandpa was a pretty neat guy. He's a Mormon guy. I know Patrick's more a Mormon guy, I don't know i know about you sir, but um he was a Mormon guy, pretty neat feller.
00:09:25
Speaker
he his very first job ever was a Indian fighter. I mean, he didn't do any Indian fighting, but that's what, that's like what the label was. He was working for Bennett Red Ranch, you know? yeah And gosh, he was a neat, he was just a neat guy. um And he was not a big guy. He was a pretty, pretty small, you know, fairly small, fairly small guy.
00:09:56
Speaker
um But, you know, so he's not like a guy you'd think of as like a big, strong, whatever guy who would talk like that or something. Um, but when he come over and said all that, he was, it was, uh, I don't know. He was the kind of guy you listened to when he talked, you know, um, he he wasn't a big talker. Uh,
00:10:23
Speaker
Yeah. So when he said something, you kind of, you kind of listened up. And so at the moment, I think I was too young to, and maybe I'm making more out of it. Hey, you know, I'm, I'm freaking 40 now, you know, so maybe I'm making more of it than it was. But, um, at the time I was probably too young to appreciate what he was actually saying. So when he rode up,
00:10:51
Speaker
I thought like, man, look how strong I am. I just broke this hickory shovel handle, you know? And for him to say that was like, okay. So I went from feeling like, look how tough I am or something to, uh, I'm retarded. You know, I like to take away. So it impacted me very bigly at the, in the moment for sure.
00:11:17
Speaker
Uh, and then years later, I thought about it over and over again, like even in Iraq, there'd be moments like when we were, uh, so there was a ah period of time where we were living with our IP team, our Iraqi police team in this little compound. Uh, it was basically on fog, Ramadi, but it was like the very, uh,
00:11:45
Speaker
you know, like at the very edge, you know, sort of south, let's see, southwestern edge of fall Ramadi is like basically abutted to five kilo. We were in this little place and there'd be times where I'd be like trying to communicate with the via interpreter, you know, trying to communicate with our IP guys. And they would be bragging at me about like,
00:12:11
Speaker
yeah are Me and and Johnny and some other people would like trying to brag at us about certain things they did in that quote would go through my mind like from over cant like this is I know you think that you're telling us something very cool.
00:12:31
Speaker
But had you had like, had you thought about this a little bit more, it wouldn't, you know, it wouldn't
Writing 'The Glass Factory' and Authentic Storytelling
00:12:38
Speaker
seem as cool. And I know that seems like disjointed, but maybe, maybe for me, I guess, um in retard speak that stuck with me forever. And like you said, it was, uh,
00:12:51
Speaker
a bit of a sort of rehashing of work smarter, not harder. But yeah, it stuck with me for a long time, because it would be moments where you'd be like, yeah, don't break the shovel handle.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, there are a lot of proverbs that are like similar to another one. And we kind of like here on the show, we kind of like the oddball one sometimes. So work smarter, not harder is what everyone's heard. But I like this one. I think this is a, this is kind of a cool twist on a cool version of it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't break the shovel handle, dude. ah Sorry. I didn't mean to curse. I i apologize for the the edit. issue probably We can edit that in post. Yeah. Don't break the shovel handle, man.
00:13:35
Speaker
It's it's I see this with like training Colts and I I've we've tried to hire a couple of kids and some of them have been pretty good. Right up until like, you know, something been good. I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to bash because they they'll probably hear this and so I but they struggle with ah ah they'll try to get forceful at times when it's like not time to be forceful.
00:14:05
Speaker
you know, like time to like, you're not proving anything to me by being forceful. Like, you know, if that's what you're doing. And I think that's what grandpa was kind of saying is like, you because why else would I have been proud, right? Yeah, I wouldn't have been proud if it was just me alone in the desert. You know, so only thing I'd have been proud about was talking about like being a stronger kid or something. The only thing that would have made me feel like that is if somebody else saw it.
00:14:35
Speaker
you know, and the only people I'd have cared about had been like grandpa, you know, and so for him to come in is like he's saying like, you're not, it's also part of, part of it is also like, uh, you know, I'm pressing me behaving like that. And same kind of deal with some Iraqis every once in a while would do, do stuff. And it's like, well,
00:14:59
Speaker
like I guess ah yes perhaps that plays well ah down at the Anbar Carp market but like over here like yeah don't do that again please you know so it's a broader you know plays broader than yeah I think some of the some of the sense of this one for me is like, you know, you're using you're using your tool incorrectly, right? You're doing it wrong. If you're breaking your shovel, you're doing it wrong. um You know, are there and and so it's trying to I'm trying to think and i you guys have some some ideas ah of ah times in your life where where that is the case, right? Where
00:15:44
Speaker
that That shovel's made for just moving the dirt. It's not for necessarily made for breakin breaking the the rocks or anything, right? like There's different tools for that. And so it's just picking the wrong tool and using it incorrectly. Yeah. And please don't ask my old man what that big ass bar in the back of the truck is called that you all be canceled if you hear what that is talking about.
00:16:14
Speaker
Yeah, I like this one. I mean, you obviously work with horses a ton. You talk about the the guys you hired on, the young kids. I mean, I think that's pretty common for young young especially young men to to kind of behave like that. and And it's just something you have to learn with age and with wisdom. And having a grandpa or a great grandpa to kind of give you that I think is awesome. i mean I mean, just training my dog, same thing, I think. you know Having a little bit of a, being a little wiser, a little bit of a gentler hand versus being forceful. Heck, man, raising boys, raising kids, same thing.
00:16:42
Speaker
um I've beaten my head against the wall trying to scream and yell at them and tell them they're doing everything and then sometimes just taking a step back and and Having a cooler head being a little calmer being a little wiser about it can can make a big difference So yeah, I think this applies in a lot of areas Yeah, i mean absolutely even even There's times even in like gunfights. There's times where it's it's like, yeah Are you being performative right now or are you helping, you know? um
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I've seen both, so. Andrew, did you have something you want to wanted to throw in? Yeah, just you you remind me also, I think of something something you've you've talked about before with with new guys that at the Jiu Jitsu gym who are trying to to to brute force you know their way instead of instead of using finesse and using skill and and um and just how that ends and disaster it can end in disaster either for for them or for the person they're
00:17:52
Speaker
They're you know sparring with that can injure someone because they don't have the skill necessary to hold back Yeah, yeah, the the meme about the spazzy white belt. That's that's true. We've all been there You know, we don't know know what you're doing and but if you go with someone good, I mean That's why you know, sometimes like my buddy when he teach right at jujitsu class He's like man. They put me was like some really good like Dude, it was like a brown belt. I'm like, that's what you want. Like, you don't want to go get some other white belt. You guys are hurt each other. Like, the brown belt's not going to hurt you. He's just going to play with you and make you tired. And you're going to use all your force. And you're going to get exhausted. And he's going to kind of show you how the ah the you know ah thinking man plays the game. Because it's a you know it's ah it's it's a game after all. And so there's a there's a cerebral element to it, for sure. but Yeah, that was a blessing, whether you realize it or not, for sure. Yeah, yeah absolutely.
00:18:46
Speaker
So how old were you when you, when this experience happened to you, when your grand granddad taught you this for your great grandpa? ah So like around 10, nine, somewhere in that ballpark, you know, so like just just starting to get like testosterone kind of stuff. Like it not quite into puberty, but just somewhere more right around then. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I wanted to back up a little bit and talk about your book just cause a lot of people maybe haven't heard of it or, and I think, I think we should, we should talk about it. You wrote a book called the glass factory. You want to tell us just ah a little bit about it and and maybe some of your experiences interact that kind of prompted that. Uh, yeah. Um, the glass factory was, um,
00:19:32
Speaker
so I didn't have, so at that time I had a, I had like a Facebook page, but it was like one of those Facebook pages where it wasn't like, like a true Facebook account or something. It was like a page where I would like post stuff every once in a while and like maybe 1500, 1000, 600, I don't even remember, but a very low amount of people, um, followed it and I would, I would post things here and there, whatever. And I was like working through,
00:20:05
Speaker
writing this book. When I started writing the book, it was ah I was working as a hunting big game hunting guide, elk, deer, mountain lion, bear,
00:20:28
Speaker
oh and then and riding horses in the summer, helping my old man out um with with his stuff. He's got some back problems. So I was helping him and I started writing this book and in I guess the genesis of that was I kept seeing, i was a I was a big fan of Jocko at the time, and I still am, he's a great guy. I've been blessed enough to become like friends with him now, and I would have never thought that back then. This would be like 2014,
00:21:08
Speaker
15, something like that. But what I was seeing was like all these guys were writing books and none of them like it's no offense to any of those guys at all but like none of them felt reflective of what what they all they all felt contrived and what not real you know they just didn't feel So these guys were writing these books and I was like, well, I'm, I'm looking at like, we came home and of course we were not like seals or whatever, you know, uh, but we came home and, um, I was watching like most of my friends do pretty good, but then some people that I really loved were struggling like bad.
Impact of COVID-19 and Social Media
00:22:00
Speaker
Um, we had, uh, like one guy died by, uh, suicide by cop and, um,
00:22:09
Speaker
one of our gunners who I love dearly to this day has had like a whole bunch of struggles and uh you know just watching all that happen and then I wasn't like doing super hot by 2015 I was doing pretty good but for you know some a significant portion of time between uh oh oh six and um 15 I was my brain was pretty, you know, turnt. And I just didn't see anybody writing those kind of books. And so I just tried to write a book as honest as I possibly could. And I know like there's a significant portion of the right wing that has decided they really hate Hemingway. And I get why. I really do. And
00:23:06
Speaker
But Hemingway said some things in some of his books that were pretty compelling. And one of the things that he talks about in, I can't remember if it's in that book about bullfighting, which is really a book about riding. Can't remember the name of that book. Can't remember if it was in that or if it was in Greenhills of Africa, where he talks a lot about riding. But he said like his life's goal was to write one true sentence. And that was,
00:23:37
Speaker
Dude, i I'm not trying to pretend that I somehow wrote what the most honest GWAS manifesto or something. i' I'm not trying to, not trying to pedestal anything, but at least that was the effort. It was like, I'm going to do my very best to just like tell the truth about all this stuff and comfort it out there and it will go where, where it will go. Um,
00:24:02
Speaker
and just kind of do it. And so I published that book in 2015 when I was still guiding full time and all that and it went nowhere. I think I sold like three, 400 copies, something like that, maybe 500 or something. um Mostly family and friends like any you know, self published deal. But I put it out and left it out there. And then I got on Twitter. And the reason I started to engage full time in Twitter was, when COVID started, I had dicked around on Twitter a little bit, but never like used it. Like when I was in that cabin, it'd be like two o'clock in the morning, and I would like
00:24:58
Speaker
talks and get an AOC or something, but I'd never like to use Twitter. you know yeah And then we got, um so it was like March. I could almost tell you the day. I can't, I don't think I could get it exactly right, but It was like March 16th or something, or maybe May 16th. I was supposed to be speaking in Vegas at a conference. And we got a call at five o'clock-ish on Friday evening saying the whole speech had been canceled. And the way these things work is like,
00:25:43
Speaker
They pay a deposit beforehand and then they have 12 months to, you know, and so we already had like a bunch of, kind for the year, like contract signed and then it got like axed all of them right in a row. So we get that call like Friday and I'm like, Oh, it all right. And at the time this was making up like roughly 25% of our annual.
00:26:09
Speaker
You know, I still, is like now, still riding Colson as the majority of our income, but 25% is pretty solid hit, you know? yeah And so we were kind of, you know, like sort of reeling. So that as the week progressed, the other ones kind of canceled out. and And so the way it really plays out is as that was happening, I was just like, whoa, I have kind of hidden my views on politics and a bunch of other things for years, because I was worried that I wouldn't get like speaking contracts that help feed my family. Um, and if all of those are canceled, then I guess I'll just get on, you know, I guess I'll just go all out on Twitter and just tell everybody where I really think about this. And then, you know, it it certainly didn't blow up, but it, you know, uh, hasn't Twitter popularity.
00:27:08
Speaker
Um, Bill off of that. And then, so I went from like being the very quiet guy who rides colts for a living to being kind of the really loud guy who rides colts for a living. And I went from like.
00:27:24
Speaker
500 books sold to somewhere in the neighborhood, like 14, 15,000 books now, nice which as a self-published guy, I got turned down by a whole shitload of publishers, you know? yeah And so like being the self-published guy and being on that stage now, it's like, like now people want to buy the next book and so on. And it's like, yeah, it just,
00:27:50
Speaker
It kind of it it grew into something that I did not think it would and would do, but being honest about yourself or whatever at least in in my case, being honest about yourself really and blew everything.
00:28:06
Speaker
Like blew a lid off of all the rest, I guess is what I'm trying to say. I hope I answered your question. I'm over here rambling. it like No, that was great. you the ah the I think the main point there is the the being genuine and the honesty. And that's a theme I mean i hear over and over. I just saw that um Tucker Carlson's podcast just passed Joe Rogan's is the number one, which I thought is crazy because he hasn't even had it all up very long. Obviously, he had a big following at Fox, but he his his kind of what what makes him unique as opposed to all these other guys is just you know he he comes across as just so genuine. you know And and and hell he'll he'll tell you what he thinks, and you can agree or disagree. but But he's not like one of these cable news guys that's clearly reading a line. He's just telling you what he thinks, and for better or for worse. so You believe him when he tells you something. yeah like That's the thing. like Maybe he's wrong, yeah but you still believe that he means it. Maybe he's wrong, but he's not lying to you on purpose.
00:29:09
Speaker
yes Yeah, he's telling you what he really thinks and you can you can sense that and you know Like I said just past Joe Rogan But Joe's got some popularity for I think a lot of the same reason like he he wasn't some he wasn't trying to put on errors he was just he was who he is, you know and just and and And had real conversations with real people didn't script it didn't you know? And so yeah, I think I think this I know you're on twitter. Can I ask you? I but i apologize to flip this around but uh Did you see that fisher king? I like that fisher king guy. I don't know what your take on that guy is, but I like him. um Did you see the tweet he wrote about? ah
00:29:46
Speaker
how he thinks that Tucker's a recent rise in popularity can be explained by Tucker as having controversial right-wing people on his show and like kind of playing the fringes in some sense. And um Joe fell off when he started interviewing like ah comedians every other episode. Did you see how to tweet?
00:30:14
Speaker
I didn't. That's interesting, though. That's an interesting point. I'll have to look at it. Look at it. think Yeah. All right. Well, sorry to sidetrack you. I thought I was... I think that's that struck me as true for whatever it's worth.
00:30:30
Speaker
think that's right. Yeah, people like people like to hear from from out, you know, outside people who like to hear interesting perspectives, especially when you couple that with with Tucker, who was, who was like so mainstream for so long on on Fox, and also paired with that he just really will tell you what he thinks. I think it's an interesting combination. Yeah, and Tucker is so he's so well positioned to deal with the like being the internet guy because the videos that come out of him not like that non scripted videos like for example the one where he's like trying to fly fish and
00:31:14
Speaker
in Brooklyn or what the heck it was. Oh yeah, the guy comes up and yeah. He just comes across as so likable. Like wow, this guy rules. like yeah He's even better than I thought. you know i Even if I disagree with him about X or Y, he's he's a good
Personal Growth and Faith
00:31:33
Speaker
guy. So he's pretty well positioned um on that stuff I feel like as well. Yeah.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, and he's he's ah I mean, he'll talk to a lot of different interesting people. I mean, you mentioned the thing about the comedian, but he actually did have what? Who's that guy? Ari Shafir on his podcast recently, which I thought was interesting. I thought that was kind of on of an offbeat take for him to have a comedian like that on. Oh, talk yeah. Yeah, I loved that. I and so I've been oh Ari fans since he did the Amazing Racist videos. On twitter or on ah YouTube, I'm sorry like years ago. Did you ever see those? No, I didn't I heard about them. Holy shit They you've got to go back and watch them. They are so freakin funny Yeah, I thought that was great for what it was worth like don't take my word for it Go back and watch Ari's amazing racist videos. They're absolutely freakin hilarious Yeah, he's clearly a really bright guy
00:32:29
Speaker
Um, I did want to ask, oh, um, so, so your, uh, yeah. So your book started doing a little, started doing better once that, once you started getting a little bit of the the Twitter, um, just, just for people who haven't read it, your, your injury was, uh, was an explosion, right? It was a, was it a suicide vest that a guy was wearing or. Yeah. It was suicide bomber. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Suicide bomber. And then, um, don't know for sure, but.
00:32:58
Speaker
I've got a pretty good chunk taken out of one of my femurs that pretty sure was an AK round. It's really kind of hard to say. There's so many holes, like pretty hard to say. And if it was an AK round, it's probably an round. but And if it was, it was probably one of the IPs that did it. And it gets into like a lot of questions. But so yeah, it was just hit with an SFS. You think it was one of the IPs that did it on purpose or because he doesn't know who he's shooting at? I don't know, dude. It's pretty hard to say. My favorite IP
00:33:45
Speaker
ah I freaking love that dude. First of all, he's the tallest Iraqi I've ever met in my life. But the guy ruled. We got to be pretty good friends. As good friends as you could be through a language barrier. You're roughly the same age. I really liked him. He got hit when I got hit. He got hit at the same time.
00:34:15
Speaker
So he freaking, you know, he died in it and sucked, but, uh, yeah, I don't know. I, it's hard to say. I don't know for sure, man, but definitely suicide bomber, lots of, uh, lots of shrapnel holes, ball bearings, mostly, uh, almost mostly ball bearings, you know,
00:34:39
Speaker
All the stuff in my face and neck is like small bits of, for me yeah I had a freaking, one time I pulled a tooth, piece of a tooth out of my neck. It was super weird. that's weird Yeah. Some other dude in my neck. Yeah. so like It's like, it was mostly just, you know, people getting shredded by an SFS and then
00:35:08
Speaker
you know, trying to move it off. So one thing and I noticed about your book when I was reading it is the your time in Iraq was just, it was real brief, like it just talked about I mean, the the explosion happened, and then this story really began. It seemed to me like at Walter Reed, when you were trying to recover, which is not what I expected when I when I picked up the book. Yeah, because the goal was not to write a war book, like, yeah, I got I got wounded, I think about nine months in ish, I can't remember exactly how many months, but it something like that. um Like roughly nine months into a 14 month deployment. But like there's a million war books, but no one talked about no one ever talked about like life afterwards, you know, from like the bros, you know. ah Because dude, I was one of 50,000 guys going through some version of the same thing. And
00:36:06
Speaker
and no one was writing a book for them. I was just like, yeah, like let's wait. So we you know I talked a little bit about, it's definitely not a war book. So anyone who thinks that's a war book is is misinterpreting what, it's not a book about war, it's a book about like trying to get your life together again after a bad or a traumatic event, I guess. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and it's excellent.
00:36:33
Speaker
um and Can I tell something? Because we're friends on the rail. One of the things I'm most ashamed of and embarrassed of, and I think this will probably resonate with you, um one of the things I'm most ah ashamed of and embarrassed of is I spent like somewhere in the neighborhood of like six years-ish as a
00:37:06
Speaker
as like an atheist character. you know um I don't know if I was ever really an atheist, but but at least I definitely projected that. yeah um It's hard to say whether I actually was, but it's a thing that I'm like deeply ashamed of. And I went through like, I think probably like mad at God. and Anyway, it's a thing that I really, really
00:37:36
Speaker
it really, really bugs me that I went through that. You know, now it's like, um, and I think a lot of guys deal with that too. Like they come home and they're so confused and, and no one ever says like, yeah, I'm super ashamed of my time as a straight up acting like a dumb ass atheist type character. And I did it like, um,
00:38:07
Speaker
that That reminds me of ah a story in the in the New Testament um where there's a ah guy who owns the like a vineyard and he hires a bunch of guys. and Some guys he's hired in the morning and he says, hey, I'll pay you X amount of money for the day. It was work. and They said, yeah, yeah, fair. and Then some guys come at like noon time.
00:38:28
Speaker
And he's like, hey, I'll make the same deal with you. I'll pay you this much for the day. And they say, great. And they come. They work the rest of the day. And some guys come coming late afternoon. He makes the same deal with them. and And the first guys get pissed off, and they're like, hey, you know these guys came just a few hours ago, and we've been working all day, and you paid them the same amount. And he's like, I've dealt justly with you. You know you you agree to this deal. I paid you for a day's wage. what What I do with them is, so that's kind of what that reminded me of, when people have experiences where they drift away, or they're not sure where they're at, and you know um you know matters where you end up. Hopefully. I think. Yeah. yeah
00:39:07
Speaker
No, yeah I think I hope you're right. you know ah I spent a lot of time asking for forgiveness because I was a dumb ass, because there's also other verses that are, you know, if if you led a single person astray, it'd be better to have a millstone cast across your neck. And I hope I didn't do that. I i may have. and
00:39:33
Speaker
I deserve that fate if I did, you know, um, which sucks, but yeah. So it's been, it's a lot of, it's a lot of thinking, you know, as you age. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't shut off.
Veteran Resonance and Feedback
00:39:50
Speaker
Sometimes as I wish you could. Well, and then there's a part of you that's like, well, Saul, right? Yeah. yeah has kind of a Yeah. Well, hopefully so.
00:40:05
Speaker
um Yeah, I wanted to throw it back over to to to Andrew. I know I've been ah been kind of talking a lot, but did you have anything ah you wanted to ask Andrew? Braxton, I want to know how like how has your book been received? like What kind of feedback have you heard from people, especially you know with the goal of writing a different kind of book um that's true to your experiences? Have have you gotten feedback that it's you know true to other people's experiences as well?
00:40:31
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, I don't want to like horn to hear whatever, but, um, it's basically been universally positive, um,
00:40:47
Speaker
among like veteran guys. So it's it's that's been pretty cool. And there's no, like, there's no braggadocio shit in there. And I think that's part of it. Like none of it is, um,
00:41:01
Speaker
dude, I was not a cool guy. I'm not a cool guy. I'm just a regular guy. So like trying to write a book from, uh, and, and, and not trying to be pretend to be something else. I think it's probably helpful, but, uh, no, it's been, don like I don't want to overstate it, but it's been mostly, uh, the vast majority of it has been Mostly dudes who are it's been one of the highlights of my life to hear from dudes that I really respect and admire whether it's via email or You know, maybe Twitter DM or something like that and they'll be like hey I'm so glad you wrote this that really reflected The way I
00:41:51
Speaker
It reflected my experience, you know. It's been very cool. I haven't had i've had a lot of Uh, talk for what that's worth. ah I have had people try to talk, but it was always people that didn't breathe. I've seen your Twitter. I know people come at you for the stupidest of reasons. so i think i and i absorb it so like i try who you know to uh uh combative about it. I'm definitely combative but I try not to be over the top because I deserve the stuff I get back most of the time but I don't get a lot of that from veteran people because I had I mean I saw like I'm for pretending to be some you know uh Delta guy, CAG guy or
00:42:45
Speaker
you know, seal six guy or something like that. I was certainly not tier one. i you don't mean but So yeah, it's mostly good for whatever that's worth. Uh, Daryl Cooper Mar made, uh, yeah. yeah a fan of and have been blessed enough to be brief pretty friendly with. And I know he's a little bit contentious now, but he's a very good man as an individual for whatever it's worth. He said the other day is like,
00:43:19
Speaker
one of those feathers in your cap that you never expected to have, you know, he said on Twitter that I wrote one of his favorite memoirs from the war. So that felt pretty good. You know, I'm like, I'm not trying to be like a braggart or something, but um from a guy like that, it felt pretty good. And so mostly I get stuff like that.
00:43:43
Speaker
It's a very different book. um And I mean that in a complimentary way that even just the title, The Glass Factor, is not something you would expect. It's not a war book, which is what I would which is what i expected. ah Even even it' like the cover of it is is different and refreshing. I think it's i think it's really, really good reading. and I encourage people to to read it. um I was curious how what your life's been like. but Can I say, ah could you mention the cover? I'm sorry, Patrick. Yeah, go ahead.
00:44:08
Speaker
One of the coolest things is ah the guy that designed the cover is one of my good friends who was a medic that was there with me at the time. um he He was a medic that worked on you know a whole bunch of different shit. He didn't quite Well, I don't know, maybe he did, but I don't think he, were I don't remember him working on me, but he worked on, there's a lot of people wounded, right? So he was kind of scrambling, and he's a good artist. and
00:44:40
Speaker
interesting character, his name's Matt, and interesting character in and of himself, and he's the guy that's on that cover, and I thought it was amazing. so he's awesome It's a personal touch, I guess. Yeah, yeah yeah it's a great cover. I wanted to ask you kind of what it would what it was like Once the book started taking off, you kind of start gaining a big following. Sorry, I mean, big is relative, you know, who what's big, I guess, but, you know, you start gaining a following a little bit and and you kind of become like this internet niche micro celebrity, as they say, right? Like, what what was that like to kind of to kind of do people, has people ever recognized you?
Social Media and American Identity
00:45:19
Speaker
I mean, you've been on some big podcasts, haven't you? I mean, we're little, but you've been on some decent sized ones. Dude, the only time I've ever been
00:45:29
Speaker
like you actually recognized by a what ah a person that I'd never met before was I was speaking in Fort Worth at a thing that was a charity event for one of my my friends, very good friends, South African guy for like his, it's called Blood Origins. It's like a sort of pet project that my buddy runs. And I got off, I was a keynote that night And dude, and but she's gonna be so mad at me for sending this book. like My wife doesn't drink, but she she's not a drinker, like ever. But that night she drank a couple, you know it was like ah they made some cocktail of some kind and it was like, out of whatever the heck it was. She drank a couple of these cups and is at a very expensive place and you know it's like a small room. She felt safe and should have or whatever anyway. She drinks a couple and this guy who now I'm like good friends with like or at least I were poor friends and I really like him. Anyway this guy leans over to her
00:46:49
Speaker
as I'm like coming off stage and and he goes, is he on Twitter? ah She was like, oh my God. She like turns, she's like blushing, and like hoping this is not happening, you know what I mean? And I walk over.
00:47:06
Speaker
And he's like, dude, are you on Twitter? And I was like, uh, you know, I'm like kind of experiencing the same thing. What did I say? yeah And, uh, anyway, um, we find out he's followed me on Twitter for a long time. Uh, and he works ah for like, he's pretty high up and like Chevron and and ten God, God bless you. If I screwed you up, I hope not, sir.
00:47:34
Speaker
But ah that was the only time I ever got recognized from Twitter. And it was a super bizarre experience, you know? But then we ended up just friends, like it was all good. it was like He's like, Oh, yeah, for we want Twitter my life anyway. So no, like that never happens. Other than that one time, which was
00:48:00
Speaker
Yeah, still weird. Um, still strange, but no, it never, it never happens. Like ever. The reason I ask that is because like, you're just, you know, your background, ranching. I mean, you're just like such a down to earth, like salting the earth kind of guy. It just seems like it would be extremely uncomfortable for so someone like you. Worst. Like, the the I, yeah, it's the worst. Yeah.
00:48:27
Speaker
um Like ah yeah a couple days ago, Lafayette Lee, who's a true good friend of mine, like been a good friend of mine for years. Yeah, we met him on the show. He's awesome. He probably doesn't even like people knowing that we're friends. i get and He's a true, dear friend of mine.
00:48:48
Speaker
um
00:48:51
Speaker
He posted the other day that it was my birthday and I was like, oh my gosh, dude, why don't you please don't do that? And then a bunch of people, you know, um yeah, I don't like it. i I know I'm trying to be like honest with the world. Like it's not fair to say I don't like attention. Otherwise, why the hell do I have a Twitter account? Right. like My brother in law does not have a Twitter account. He hates attention.
00:49:21
Speaker
You don't know what I mean? yeah oh like he He actually for real hates it. and ah like i I hate it, but I like it when it's the attention that I want to have. Does that make sense? like Trying to be as honest of a broker as I can here. like I don't want people to be like, happy birthday. like Who cares? I'm a dumb ass. My kids love me, and that's what matters to me. And so why I like that part.
00:49:50
Speaker
um I don't like people. I don't know. It's so weird. It's hard to to lay this out in a way that's accurate, you know? I like people who laugh at my jokes. That's what it is, dude. Like, yeah I like people who laugh at my jokes. That's it. I don't actually like anything more than that. Like, twitter to me, dude, Twitter is like one giant open mic. Yeah. it I'm just making goofs 99% of the time. I'm just making a goof.
00:50:22
Speaker
you know, like, and I want people to laugh at it. and If they don't laugh at it, it's like, Oh, I screwed that up. And, you know, I'll readjust my joke. to exyme or something But I don't want any of them to care about me as a person. Yeah.
00:50:38
Speaker
You shouldn't. I'm just an idiot. ah like No one could ever... I don't know. It's hard to... Does this make any sense? It's like, hard to... That's why you're so relatable, because you're just an idiot like us, Braxton. I mean, you're not... We're all just in the same boat.
00:50:54
Speaker
day, for sure. like but Like when you come up to the Fourth of July thing, it's like so fun to hang out. It's like, Hey, you know, like, where's buddies throwing guy like, uh, little gosh, dang, um, golf balls at a freaking PVC ladder. And then of course she's like, yeah, I don't know. I,
00:51:21
Speaker
For whatever it's worth, I tried very hard to not ever have some delusions of influence or something. I know people say that. I um don't buy into that. I don't think that's real. Like, I think that's mostly bullshit, you know? And anyone who's striving for that is like the worst person on earth. yeah like I don't like that person.
00:51:49
Speaker
Like anyone who's trying to use whatever social media app to, to like actually influence some other guy, whether it's his like political choices and God forbid, like his actual life. That's not a person that I, I don't know, I cannot relate to or be friends with that guy. Like I've had, I've had friends that are, um,
00:52:19
Speaker
You know, on the celebrity scale, they will text me and say like, hey, dude, you got to be careful. Like you you're t tweeting in such and such a way or whatever. And I'm like, bro, I know I'm not playing this game. I'm going to continue to tweet as if there are five people listening. i try I'm not. You're not going to suck me into your Bohemian Grove.
00:52:48
Speaker
We ain't doing no owl effigies. and i
00:52:55
Speaker
I'm going to keep having fun. And I don't know. You know what I'm trying to say is like, I just won't. I don't know. I don't like that. Micro niche. slippy I don't believe it. I don't think it's true.
00:53:08
Speaker
Well, to to to circle it back to the proverb, man, that might just be people kind of trying to break their shovels. They're they're pounding away. They're trying to they're trying to you know gain a following rather than trying to you know do something meaningful. And then sometimes the following just comes, right? Dude, I'll tell you a thing. I can't i know this is the worst thing ever to do on a podcast, but I'll tell you a story privately. um I've had people reach out and ask to do sort of thanks and so far as like, but ah yeah, I'll tell you that story privately. Yeah, yeah I don't, I don't do that kind of shit. But I also think it's also gay.
00:53:50
Speaker
when people were like, um, Oh, I'll never take a corporate sponsorship or something. It's like, dude, I just took a corporate sponsorship, but it's like a super cool company that does nothing but like super hippie ass products. It's like, it's like beef tallow freaking, um, uh, sunscreen and not fluoride fluorideed charcoal toothpaste.
00:54:16
Speaker
It's like the most AJ you've ever heard in your life, but it's it's run by a guy that I've become friends with and it's like Yeah, I'm gonna take that sponsorship all freakin day every every day a week because this is true I will put on my children, you know, I mean, um, but yeah, you're not gonna get me to oh No, you're not gonna get me to do whatever happens that Bohemian Grove or whatever, you know what I'm saying? So it's kind of like, go um anyway, I'm rambling, as you know, I'm about to pour myself another cup of coffee. yeah yeah but No one's gonna believe that. but
00:54:58
Speaker
yes if i told which company made the coffee everyone would just say oh yeah you're gay so i remember that desktop yeah i'm very good friends with the guy who happens to own that company now so um know go So yeah, well, hey man, we've we've taken a lot of your lot of your time. Andrew, any anything anything else you want to want to ask or mention? Yeah, i just ah before we go, I'm i'm curious like if you're working on anything right now, writing-wise, what kind of projects do you got going on?
00:55:37
Speaker
Dude, I am so, I am. I've been working so, I'm such a dumbass. I tried to write this book. I had this idea that I was going to write this book that was like, here, let me explain the ethnogenesis of America. I thought I could do just the most hubristic act.
00:56:02
Speaker
and like I thought I was going to be able to do this. um And it has gotten to be quite the project because wrong, not capable of doing that. And there's a reason there's like hundreds of books trying to do this. So ah my idea had always been, I'm not going to make this superficial. I'm going to condense certain stories in such a way that I can like give this to a ninth grader and they can understand like how we became what we are. Because my my main contention, and this remains true, my main contention is that if you were to ask a person who actually understands, or even 50 years ago, what it is to be an American, the attributes and stories that they would ascribe slash describe to you are
00:57:01
Speaker
ah persevering A lot of it is like Mormons crossing the plains type stuff. They're going to describe what, you know, hard luck, perseverance, um carving a country out of bedrock, you know, which is true in many cases, actually. And we should be super proud of that as a nation, um you know, ah like working our way through certain Anyway, so I thought I could write this book, but it turns out you can't actually do that in an honest way. You can't actually do that in an honest way in one ah readable book. Like no one reads a book over 270-ish pages, right? So you've got to land somewhere in that ballpark. So I am working on this new book, but the
00:57:56
Speaker
it's sort of like the way we've or the idea of how to like fix that I can't actually do that in the way I want is we're gonna put the book out but as we go through that um I'm gonna do a this this podcast I'm working with that company that I told you about very cool company it's called Papa Bear Naturals by the way you should check it out um Patrick is like straight up right up your alley, like very cool. tom I'm going to do an interview podcast, which I'm hoping to have you on since you're not too far away. you be um And then in between,
00:58:42
Speaker
I'm going to take chapters of this book that we're supposed to kind of make it into the story and sort of retrofit them into kind of a Daryl Cooper style, just tell that story because it can't actually fit into the book anymore. So it's basically like writings that will not make it into this book, even though I've You know, dude, like I spent about two weeks going down this rabbit hole of poison arrows and their usage in the pre-Columbian because I was like trying to figure out how to tell America's story accurately. Well, it turns out that's not going to make it into the 260 day or 260 page book. of why you know So we're going to roll those stories through the
00:59:29
Speaker
or at least those writings through the podcast and just kind of dump them because they won't work. So yes, new book, but we're going through heavy editing on this side because my dumb ass was like, here's 2000 pages.
00:59:48
Speaker
she
00:59:50
Speaker
That sounds exciting. That sounds sounds really interesting. yeah i have about the attention span to write about one tweet if it's long form maybe i don't know maybe ah maybe a couple of three threads a couple thousand pages that's uh that's good that's impressive bro you gotta you gotta zin max that's what it is I'm going to, one day I'm going to disturb you. Okay. so Okay. So freaking, ah like they they it diagnosed me with ADHD as a kid, right? They tried to put me on Adderall. I didn't, you know, I didn't like it all that stuff. But all of the data is saying that nicotine is the best like medicine for that. Like legit, they're even, pharmaceutical companies are working on ah trying to get a pill
01:00:32
Speaker
based from nicotine, they're just trying to make it not addictive and they're not having success with that. So that's the problem. not Like that part snog it up, you got to write that part off. Yeah. You're gonna be a addicted dude, like for sure. I'm sure it would help me focus. But yeah, probably never you can stop. But yeah, well, hey, this cast might be the best evidence against though, because like, look how focused I am. And I've had a of 6 milligram in since we started. Does the coffee help with that or work against it? I don't know. I actually don't know the answer to that either. It might be the coffee company that everybody hates. That's the problem. i that's that's ah That's right there. yeah If it had been stocking mill, you'd be all different. It'd be different. It could be.
01:01:20
Speaker
be Hey Braxton, thank you so much for coming. This was a really good conversation. any Any last things you want to plug or tell anybody where to find you? No, sir. I just I appreciate you. and I don't miss next fourth of July. That was Gary that you missed this one. Yeah, I'll be there next time. We need to get together for a fight. Absolutely. All right. Well, hey, thanks so much. And Andrew, good good chat with you. And thank thank you for listening, everybody. We'll see you guys all next week. I'll see you. There are only four things certain since social progress began. The dog returns to his vomit and the sow returns to her mom.
01:02:01
Speaker
and the burned fool's bandaged finger goes wobbling back to the fire. And that after this is accomplished and the brave new world begins, when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sin, as surely as water will wet us, as surely as fire will burn, the gods of the copy were hideous, with terror and slaughter at her.