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Scarcity Brain Replayed - Chapters 11-Epilogue
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We’re approaching one full year of the Books Brothers Podcast! As we prepare for the next book, we look back at some of the highlight discussions from the past year. Today’s episode is our last episode from Season 2, when we read Scarcity Brain by Michael Easter.
- Chapter 11: “Happiness” - (4:24 - 41:15)
When would you say that you’ve been the happiest in your life? (4:24 - 20:46)
When have you relied most on prayer in your life? How did that make you feel/increase your faith? (20:47 - 33:09)
What did you find particularly interesting in the Benedictine monks’ view of work and purpose? (33:10 - 41:15)
- Epilogue: “What We Do Now” - (41:16 - 1:06x:07)
Our next book is Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae by Steven Pressfield. You can buy the book on Amazon by clicking here.
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See you next week! Until then - read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Podcast Anniversary and Highlights
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, this is Adam. We are approaching one full year of the Books Brothers podcast. As we begin reading and recording our next book, Gates of Fire, for season six, we thought we'd replay a couple notable episodes from this past year. This week is our last episode from season two when we read Scarcity Brain by Michael Easter. You can find all of our Scarcity Brain discussion episodes wherever you listen to podcasts.
Revisiting 'Scarcity Brain' Discussion
00:00:22
Speaker
This was a great book and we hope you enjoy revisiting part of the Scarcity Brain conversation with us.
00:00:46
Speaker
We hope you also get something out of our discussions.
Conference Success and Networking
00:00:49
Speaker
The Books Brothers are currently reading Scarcity
00:01:31
Speaker
How was your conference? It was really good. I was actually working on writing a recap. We met with 28 team buyers like the Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, Pittsburgh Steelers, stuff like that. We met with over 15 universities.
00:01:48
Speaker
10 licensing organizations for retailers, including Target, Sam's Club, and Amazon. It was just super busy. It was just a really nice booth. It was the first year we had gone with a very high end, like made and ah tens of thousand dollar type investment in a nice booth and it paid off. It was a really good. It was definitely cool to see you there, man. It was Yeah, man, it was great. i'm I'm really glad it worked out. I was like, all right, we get to hang out. And I'm like, oh, it's not going to work out. And then like, yes, it's going to work again. Yeah. So I was really happy that ah that it worked out. Yeah, that it was cool. but Yeah, it was good. It was fun, too, listening to
Social Media and Product Safety Issues
00:02:28
Speaker
Tuesday's episode. I forgot how much we talked about Stanley, which again, I don't know if you're I don't know if you're keeping up, Thomas, but yeah, the letter. hey man
00:02:39
Speaker
Dude, you keep up with it well, man. You know exactly what ah where I was going with that. So you heard about that? I think it's more of like kind of just a witch hunt. It doesn't sound like anything serious. But yeah, I mean, it's it's not good. It's not good optics for sure.
00:02:55
Speaker
No, I mean, to me, I'm like, how trustworthy are lead tests? And you know, from Amazon, lead could come from anywhere you could roll back, a you could roll by a certain field and some dust could blow on your cup and there could be lead in it like you just never know.
00:03:12
Speaker
what the conditions are when you do a test like that. But that's good for you guys to have some news like that. If you guys don't know, there was a lead-based paint that somebody on TikTok or Instagram found on the outside of a Stanley Cup that's so popular. And oo of course it made the news because, well, Stanley Cup, of course. Stanley Cup. Exactly. Yeah. and just it's great It's so cool to see everyone is so into hockey right now.
00:03:42
Speaker
Yeah. Like all these little girls in middle school. It's so weird.
Sports Talk: Kansas City Chiefs
00:03:46
Speaker
So what do we think about the chiefs in the Superbowl? I couldn't believe it. I was pretty, I cannot believe they're in it again. The second half, the second half of that game was kind of boring. The second half of the 49ers lions game was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Even though I kind of wanted the yeah lions to win. Yeah, me too.
00:04:14
Speaker
I'm not going to go back though. Excited that they made it this far. Yeah, I'm pretty stoked. Pretty stoked.
Finding Happiness: Insights from Monks
00:04:23
Speaker
Welcome back to the Books Brothers podcast. This week we will be unpacking chapter 11, happiness, as well as the epilogue, what we do now in Michael Easter scarcity brain. As a fellow Catholic, I'm excited to lead this one.
00:04:39
Speaker
This week we tune in as Michael Easter finds himself at the edge of New Mexico's Gila National Forest to meet with the brothers in Brown, the Benedictine monks of Our Lady of Guadalupe Monastery. Easter is intrigued by how simply content the Benedictine monks live and how they have essentially cracked the code when it comes to wellness and happiness.
00:05:03
Speaker
His scientific journey and research leads him to the monastery where he spends a week living amongst the Benedictine monks following the rule first initiated by Saint Benedict. The rule at first glance might appear as a list of dos and don'ts. However, the rule is a guiding compass to life and was established by Saint Benedict in a time of hardship as the Roman Empire was crumbling.
00:05:27
Speaker
Saint Benedict fled Rome and took camp in a cave in Italy to find solitude, austerity, and sacrifice. He found happiness in the spiritual contrary to his fellow secular and earthly Romans. Many came to find that the answer to happiness is in a life of solitude and the way to live.
00:05:46
Speaker
At the core of the scarcity loop is a perceived and fleeting happiness that is to be achieved and or received. We are living in a way and making decisions based on the belief that those decisions will ultimately make us happier. That getting the next, whatever next is, will truly fulfill us. However, research shows that the more we have, the less happy we actually are. So Matt,
00:06:13
Speaker
I want you to lead this one off for us.
Sharing Personal Joyful Experiences
00:06:15
Speaker
When would you say that you've been the happiest in your life? There are a few moments. Number one, getting married. Number two, getting engaged. Number three, when my daughters were born. And number four, probably when I got my driver's license.
00:06:42
Speaker
feeling of freedom and driving a alone by myself for the first time ever, the windows down, cranking some music, smoking a cigarette yeah back when cigarettes were cool. Those are probably the happiest moments of my life. You so you said number three was your the birth of your daughters. So you have two daughters. So which one is higher on the list?
00:07:11
Speaker
Hey, Stalin. You got a favor, don't you now? No comment.
00:07:19
Speaker
Was there anything crazy about like, obviously not, you know, super specific, but was there anything like crazy about the birth, like the birth stories? We didn't find out gender before Emily gave birth. So finding out that gender was a complete surprise to both of us. In that moment,
00:07:38
Speaker
as soon as our first daughter Lucy was born. It was just such a big surprise and wonderful moment to find out that it was a healthy baby and that it was a girl. We had names picked out for both boys and girls, because we just didn't know which one we're going to have to choose. We were going back and forth.
00:08:03
Speaker
on a girl name. we were It was between Lucy and Annie, and Annie ended up being our second daughter's name. When Lucy was born, we just hadn't agreed on what name to choose. Whenever Lucy was born, we were like, okay, we got to pick a name for her now. We asked each other what we were feeling for names, and I said Lucy, but Emily said Annie at the same time.
00:08:31
Speaker
So we were still undecided, but then immediately after Emily was, she just said, okay, we'll just go with Lucy. Like, okay, that's her name. And you got them both now. Now we got them both. Yeah. Nice. It was really fun. That's just the whole process of going through pregnancy, not knowing what gender you're going to have. And then finding out in that moment was,
00:08:58
Speaker
Really fun. I think one thing that's cool about all of those happiest moments, and it's totally in line with this chapter and Rob, I'm sure you had more to expound on it, but that those things aren't associated with items, possessions. Yeah. Money, essentially. I mean, even like getting your license, it's like, it's not getting a car, it's getting your license. Those are great answers, Matt. I totally forgot about that feeling of getting your license.
00:09:25
Speaker
that is definitely up there for sure probably for most people I guess Thomas what about you I would have to say yeah probably getting married is definitely just that whole day was amazing watching you guys get married was fun too traveling has been awesome moving having basically like a whole new world of possibilities open up when you kind of like settle yourself in a new place and start to realize like what it could be like and how you could sort of grow into this new life. I had a blast in college too, hanging out with all you guys and doing all the events and being social. And I think that that that three or four years of my life, except maybe like junior year when my studies were super hard, were just packed with fun. I can't name a whole lot of like real specifics, but
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah man, i I was surprised like us longboarding around at like one in the morning wasn't before your daughter's being born. and I figured that definitely way, way higher. and That was, and yeah, those were definitely up there. It's okay. You probably just forgot when you're making your list. I was impressed how quickly you rattled the list off the mat. Well, thank you. I came a little bit prepared. I'm sure there's more moments that I am not thinking of, but yeah.
00:10:49
Speaker
Longboarding at 1am was definitely one of the most fun moments of my life. I think a lot of happiness is unexpected. So it's hard to remember the happiest moments because so many of them are just so random. I think a lot of happiness has to do with maybe the way that you've positioned your expectations before a certain situation you get in or event. So like when I mentioned traveling, i just you know I feel like it's almost never the things that you have planned out on your itinerary that you look back and say, oh man, that blew me away. It's usually the things that just kind of happen along the way you don't expect that really blow your mind and make you feel that feeling. Again, which which has nothing to do with money like you guys were saying. You can't you almost can't plan
Adventures and Happiness
00:11:35
Speaker
happiness. It kind of just
00:11:36
Speaker
It has to happen to you in a sense. You can put yourself in a better position, I think, and like change your perspective to have a higher likelihood of experiencing it. Sometimes I feel like the more people try to plan it, the farther away they get from it, you know? Yeah. Garrett, I know you're a happy fellow over there. I'll try to take a different spin on the answer because obviously getting married, my kids being born,
00:12:05
Speaker
A lot of interactions with my children are some of the happiest moments. I'm thinking as it pertains to scarcity brain with the previous chapter, talking about gear rather than stuff and how some of the most memorable experiences are not when we had every tool to solve every problem, but when we were put in a bind and we came out on the other side successfully.
00:12:34
Speaker
successfully I think of several experiences where in the moment it may have not been literally fun or I was experiencing happiness per se, but there's some of my most fond memories to think back on. For example, when I was in Thailand, we went to a snake show.
00:12:59
Speaker
where they just had a bunch of snakes, local snakes from Thailand. And this isn't like going to the zoo in the US where you sign waivers and there's 20 feet of space between you and every animal exhibit. There were, gosh, what kind, of there were cobras, there were boa constrictors, everything, and they would pull them out and they would do crazy stuff. They would grab the venomous ones and go up to the guys in the stands and put them right by their nuts and stuff. And we were literally, we were up running around on the stands to get away from the performers.
00:13:45
Speaker
And we look back on that and we're like, that was so crazy. Why did we do something like that? But then at the same time, it's one of the most fun stories to talk about where we held boa constrictors and we were five feet from these cobras. And I think of this was definitely not fun or happy in the moment, but again, they're fun and very fond memories to think back on.
00:14:11
Speaker
When you're 24 years old and you experience something like that, it's very formative. We were in, this time we were in Vietnam and Ho Chi Minh and we had asked where to go out of the airport to get a taxi.
00:14:26
Speaker
And we went to the place that the information booth told us. And long story short, it was a thief. It wasn't an actual taxi, but we didn't know that because we had never ridden in a taxi car before. So a guy greets us, says he knows the hotel location we need to go to runs off or like, that's weird. Why isn't he just by his car? He drives up a vehicle and it's got ID on it. It's got stickers on it that make it look like a a real taxicab. And it was like a literal magician. He
00:15:03
Speaker
is exiting the parking lot and he asks us for a dollar to pay for parking, which I thought that was strange because we just got picked up. You don't typically do that. And I reach out my wallet and he had grabbed he grabbed it from my hand and pulled out a one a US $1 bill. But what he had done, literal sleight of hand had taken ale a equivalent of like a $20 bill, but in Vietnam currency and like slit it down is his shirt or something. It was incredible. and but I'm not stupid. No one takes your wallet, but it was a surreal moment because if I'm about to accuse someone in another country of stealing from me, I need to be darn sure.
00:15:44
Speaker
and the mental hoops and am I sure that I actually withdraw that much from the ATM? He ended up hearing my conversation with Brooke and stalled, quote unquote, his car. he yeah this All of a sudden his car stalled and I ended up confronting him and he gave me my money back. oh no But we were in the middle of Ho Chi Minh City and ah I told Brooke, get out of the car. Don't don't lose anything out of your pockets on the way out. We're never seeing this car again. And we just started walking. We ended up finding a bank with a security guard. We're like, just get somewhere where there's someone that it looks like security. And when we got in a real cab, we noticed subtle differences, but we didn't know that getting in. we're like Oh, wow. We totally got faked out.
00:16:31
Speaker
That was not fun in the moment, but telling that story and the experience and how we, it was it was so fun and it brings back, like obviously I'm smiling as I'm telling the story. So those were definitely not the times I'm the happiest in my life, but in thinking of this book, scarcity brain, abundance brain, pushing through hard times,
00:16:56
Speaker
giving us a sense of endurance, Misogies, Misogies, whatever. Those are things that I'm thinking about as take as a different take to answer your question, Rob. That's a good one. You just described a bunch of adventures, really. Yeah. Yeah. And those adventures brought a lot of happiness, for sure. Remember when you were a kid, everything kind of felt like an adventure, even if it wasn't.
00:17:22
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Going in the backyard. Yeah. I mean, as you guys continue talking, I kept thinking about how easy it was to find happiness as a kid, just like playing around. We always used to go down to the lake for the Fourth of July with my extended family, and those were some of the happiest times for sure of my childhood, which you might argue that level of happiness is different than like an adult happiness, if you will, because It's maybe just easier to be in the moment as a kid. Yeah. I mean, getting to that to that point, I was talking to floods about this that tonight. I think anytime I'm in like the present moment, like I'm truly leaning in to the present moment. It's like the only time where you're free from, say, anxieties of the past and of the future. and
00:18:14
Speaker
You can truly soak in. So there's been times on retreat where I'm fully present in it and and fully into the experience and reflecting upon looking out at scenery or having an in-depth conversation with somebody and experiencing true bliss and joy are some significant moments for me. Also those times I think we've all hit on it with family and friends. so my bachelor party, for example, and I'm sure we can all relate that feeling where like everyone's there. You're waiting for like those last few buddies to come in and then they fill out the tribe and all of your people are in the same roof or under the same roof and everybody's there just makes me yeah super happy when those moments happen and weddings are examples of that too.
00:19:06
Speaker
I remember, I know you guys probably recall Scott Watson. He officiated our wedding. I recall when it came to our wedding, he had said that your wedding it's, it's like your all-star game. It's all the people who love you the most and like are all on your team in your life. And I remember that that's something that's really stuck with me. And every time I met someone's wedding, I think I recall that statement and how it's like, yeah, every, all these people are here just like surrounding supporting this person.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, no, I mean, you're sitting at the church or whatever and you see people walk in and you're like, oh, snap, he's here. yeah Oh, dang, I haven't seen that dude in forever, you know? yeah And it just makes for a fun celebration for sure. But no, it's good to reflect on on those times of happiness. And I think we all hit on it, especially coming off of the other chapter that it's not getting that new car or getting that new, whatever it's, it's those experiences with the people that we, that we love and and cherish that matter the most. Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Are you tired of getting getting the nervous squirts right before a big interview? Or do you have a problem sitting still right before a big first date? Now introducing Jitter Juice.
00:20:27
Speaker
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00:20:46
Speaker
And so Easter integrates in with the Benedictine community, learning and participating in their way of life. He learns about aura et labora, which translates prey and work. The benedic Benedictines have found that four hours of work a day is the sweet spot for productivity, which leaves a healthy balance between hard work and adequate rest.
00:21:11
Speaker
The brothers are able to have their work be a form of prayer and devotion to God, but have chosen to prioritize prayer and rest so as not to be overburdened by their work.
00:21:22
Speaker
I don't know about you guys, but I particularly enjoyed the story on page 260, where it described that the brothers initially built beautiful, solid furniture. And even though the demand increased tremendously for their handmade furniture, the brothers gave it up because they were not going to be demanded of by the world.
00:21:43
Speaker
For that would contradict their way of life, putting work over prayer in their motto. This freedom to choose their relationship with God over the world is a beautiful testament to their vow of poverty.
00:21:55
Speaker
for the brothers spend hours in prayer every day because it is in silence that they and we can truly hear. I also love the quote, I think Michael Easter made it, but on page 266, it isn't how you are praying, but that you are praying. I kind of found like the dynamic between like his interpersonal battle of like, I don't, like I've kind of been Luke, like hot and cold on this whole like God,
00:22:26
Speaker
you know, relationship within his life and it was cool to see maybe a secular person go into this type of community, but the brothers find solace and are connected to their origin and the father through prayer.
00:22:40
Speaker
for how we could, then for how could they find greater happiness and anything that the world could provide when the author of true and everlasting happiness provides it to those who seek him?
Faith and Resilience in Tough Times
00:22:52
Speaker
So my second question, Garrett, we'll have you lead this off. When have you relied most on prayer in your life? How did that make you feel slash increase your faith?
00:23:06
Speaker
I would imagine my answer is similar to others. when I have the most felt needs, when things tangibly feel most out of my control. So whether it's trying to get through a hard season in a relationship with someone, whether it's being either figuratively or literally backed into a corner, I think of my first year of marriage,
00:23:40
Speaker
I've been someone that by and large, if I try hard enough, I can accomplish what I set out to accomplish. And first year of marriage, going from dating long distance to moving in together and our first house or our first home together as a married couple being overseas. That's quite an adjustment and there were just a lot of challenges.
00:24:10
Speaker
That was the first time I had a very felt experience of no matter how hard I try, I keep screwing something up. I keep having outbursts of anger or impatience or not being sacrificial enough or something fill in the blank. I finally got to a point where I came kind of to the end of myself, really trying to lean into truly asking for help. So i'd I'd like to say I rely on prayer in both the positive and the negative times, but that's not my reality. I would imagine it's not most people's reality as aspirational as that is. And for me, that that is part of my story. When things have been the hardest, when I've felt kind of in the biggest ditches, that's when I've relied on prayer the most. and
00:25:10
Speaker
gotten through those times by God's grace and I don't think there's any coincidence in that of his faithfulness and that relationship with him growing stronger. So yeah, it it definitely increased my faith and in those regards. Thanks Garrett. Yeah, I can relate to what you're saying about how it really is those times where we have the greatest needs or we do find that we're praying the most and It definitely makes you feel selfish when you notice that or you take a step back and realize that. The times that I can think of, really just the biggest trials that I went through, first one I can think of is back when I was in high school I had broke my, like I had a stress fracture in my back and then I had all these allergic allergic reactions where I was getting like hives and then
00:26:03
Speaker
because of what I was taking to help with the hives, like they thought that like I developed shingles. And so I had this back brace on because I had a broken bone on my back. I couldn't play soccer, which is where I found a lot of my joy. And I was itchy and just miserable. And it lasted for like, felt like months. I don't really recall exactly how long it was, but that was a tough time. I would say other times, you know, going through trying to challenges with school, getting into graduate school or the the challenges of graduate school. And then probably the one that sticks out more recently in recent years is Ruth and I going through infertility. You know, we're really super thankful and blessed that we have a daughter. But yeah, it took three three years to get pregnant and a lot of prayer, a lot of
00:26:52
Speaker
tough times with that, a lot of frustration. I would say similarly, I, you know, grew my faith, but it was the reminder that just cause I want something doesn't mean that can make it happen. Cause I think sometimes it can feel like that where if you work hard enough, you can get something done and that's just not always how things work.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, there's a part of the Christian faith or Catholic faith, Ignatian spirituality, which is basically based upon periods of desolation and consolation, the highs and lows. And a lot of it is based upon desolation, getting out of it. It focuses a lot on on prayer during that, but yeah, I mean, Stalen and I can relate to all of you guys, especially with the marriage piece, but even I was the last of us five online to get married.
00:27:49
Speaker
I prayed a lot for my wife. I received a nice compliment like a month or so after I got married when I put my picture of my wedding day on my desk at work. And one of my coworkers said, you can tell how much a man prayed by how pretty his wife is. And I was like, wow, that's such a compliment because I prayed a lot for my wife.
00:28:15
Speaker
And I prayed a lot during the times when I wasn't with her as to how I can become a better man for her, how I can end a relationship, heal from a relationship to find her. So I think definitely within my vocation has been a period where I've really focused on prayer the most. And then, you know, getting back to Garrett, what you were kind of saying about applying it to the scarcity brain, following the loop, right? The opportunity, the unpredictable, the quick repeatability.
00:28:45
Speaker
Getting sucked into like the addiction of pornography carrying that through high school college post college and wanting to curb ah kill that addiction and hating the senate so there was a lot of begging and pleading of.
00:29:04
Speaker
trying to run away from the devil in that sense and and choose God over that. Many people find themselves in times of distress, trying to focus more on prayer. But to your point, Garrett, it's how do we focus on the good times? And that will continue our faith and allow us to be super grateful and blessed for what we do have. Well, sad rap. Things are sharing.
00:29:33
Speaker
I think I'm similar in that I have relied on prayer on the darker times of life where I'm needing something. So I can relate to that. In college is when I relied on prayer the most. Trying to find my identity in faith and wrestling with why I believe and what I believe. I did i took a lot of religion classes because I was my major at a secular school at Missouri State and it was very challenging because it looked at the Bible from a secular historical point of view with zero faith involved and it was pretty challenging wrestling with some of the things that we talked about relying on prayer in those moments and through those years
00:30:31
Speaker
really helped me with my faith and what I actually believe in and defining why I believe and what I believe in. Not just because that's how I grew up. I grew up in a Christian household. I think college is when those beliefs are really challenged. And I had to say for myself, this is what I believe in and this is why.
00:30:58
Speaker
relying on prayer in those moments and not just the bad times, but the good times as well. That's when I felt most connected through prayer. Did you guys find it interesting? I guess I can relate a little bit with Michael Easter's feeling about the ways religion maybe is used or whether you know he's skeptical of some of these things. I feel like as I've moved around and been to different places where different religions are the majority, I've questioned things in a way that made me more open-minded for sure. I still have the same faith, but it is hard, like Matt was saying, wrestling with like, oh.
00:31:39
Speaker
I've always believed this because I was in the bubble of it. But if you leave the bubble, like why do you believe what you believe specifically? That's always a difficult thing to figure out. I feel like it was really interesting. I think Michael Easter was talking about some statistics, wasn't he? About the benefits of prayer or meditation or some of these other things that are that are benefits that have been observed secularly outside of the realm of faith.
00:32:08
Speaker
You know, there is something to this, even if you're not someone who's faithful, look at the facts. And I found that pretty comforting, I guess, as somebody who has questioned a lot of things and wrestled with those questions, just to look back and say, wow, this is an ancient practice that is here for a reason, because it actually has real tangible benefits that can be measured in people's lives.
Prayer, Meditation, and Secular Benefits
00:32:34
Speaker
So I thought that was pretty cool that he threw that kind of stuff in there.
00:32:37
Speaker
Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Are you a senior citizen but have perfectly good hearing? Do your kids, grandkids, or people out in public yell at you thinking that you are hard of hearing even though you can hear them just fine? Now introducing the I can hear you sign. Pull this sign out of your back pocket when people are yelling at you when they don't need to. I can hear you sign. It's kind of like flipping the bird to people who like to age discriminate.
00:33:07
Speaker
And now back to the show.
Solitude: A Path to Growth
00:33:09
Speaker
The chapter kind of concludes with just focusing on solitude, taking yourself outside of society, outside of where the scarcity loop really lives and how we can really grow by limiting the noise of the world so that we can actually think for the first time ourselves and not be distracted. i know I have another question here, but for the sake of time, maybe I'll just wrap up this chapter and then we can move on to the epilogue.
00:33:42
Speaker
Could we talk about work a little bit? I just had some thoughts. Yeah, I like i like the idea of that. I mean, yeah, because there that was one thing about the monks that I also was like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. What did you find particularly interesting, Thomas?
00:33:55
Speaker
ah Well, I've just thought about work a lot and i've I've gone through swings where I'll think about money more than I think about my work because that's that's been my ultimate goal that I feel pressure to make a certain amount of money. I'm never as happy to tie it back to happiness. I'm never as happy when I'm in one of those cycles of, okay, i really have to I really have to figure out a way to make more money this year, or I really have to get a promotion, or I really, you know, I have to get a new job. When I'm thinking about the aspects of work I can be better at, or the ways that I can improve my workplace, or just focus on those intangible things that you develop at work, like your skills, or your character, or your patience. Yeah, definitely. I'm actually
00:34:45
Speaker
I feel like I'm actually more effective at work, which leads me to eventually getting more money by default. But I also feel happier and I feel more more fulfilled at work. And I just wanted to bring up a big part of the chapter, which was Michael Easter talking about the rise of what he called bullshit jobs.
00:35:04
Speaker
And he mentioned that they did a study on jobs and whether those jobs are fulfilling to people in the sense that they look at the job as purposeful or as them having a mission that actually impacts someone in a positive way somehow at their job. And how like, I don't know, I think it was 30 to 40% of people in the survey said,
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really think my job and contributes anything to the greater good. I was not surprised at all. Like I've worked jobs like that and it's soul sucking. And I just feel like that's one thing that a lot of people could probably ah relate with as it pertains to work. Because I mean, we spend so much of our time at work.
00:35:48
Speaker
shouldn't we expect to be able to, is it too much to ask to be happy most of that time, right? Isn't it crazy that they just focused on, they thought four hours of work was the best because obviously they wanted to prioritize prayer over work. Oh yeah, they said after four hours a day, you pretty much you pretty much have lost your you're mojo and you might as well not work after four hours, right?
00:36:18
Speaker
Well, and I mean, I think if you would look at people, if you were to ask people how much of the day do you really work? Oh, yeah. There's a lot of jobs where four is maybe a high number, even though they're at work. At first, I just want to note it is. um I am happy to see that they switch from chair making to coffee ah coffee roasting. That truly is that truly is God's work.
00:36:41
Speaker
ah ah Yeah, no wonder I know why he went to that one That's why he went to visit that one to take it back to like even Thomas I love what you're saying and how you relate it to your your jobs you've had But to take it back to like I'm even a macro level How do people live for the weekend or they live for retirement? This is an example of a people and I think there's lots of examples like this where truly working hard gives more like a higher level of satisfaction than not someone who isn't working hard. So know the idea that, okay, I'll make all this money so way I can like have this all this time easier one day. As you're mentioning, Thomas, it's really of like, can you find purpose in what you're doing? And then the work should be fulfilling. We're made to be a work to working people, you know,
00:37:35
Speaker
And I think perspective has a lot to do with it. yeah If I go into a job thinking already that it's a bullshit job that's not going to fulfill me and that doesn't produce anything of value, of course it's going to be.
00:37:49
Speaker
really difficult for me to enjoy that, right? if if I don't know. I i guess when we traveled to Asia and went to some kind of more third world areas, I watched folks sweep sweeping the street and being passed by fellow citizens that lived in the same area and they were doing work that was valued by literally anybody. You know, like it could have been a doctor or somebody passing by and it was like, oh, thank you for doing that. We're kind of in a caste system in terms of like society looking at different jobs as being either worthy jobs or good jobs that it's like, okay, well you're successful and they're not. But in reality, we're all contributing to something that's valuable or else it wouldn't, the job wouldn't really exist. Perspective means a lot, like it it helps a lot.
00:38:43
Speaker
I think it's the encouragement too of, okay, maybe you don't love what you're doing, but can you find something and that you're passionate about in what you're doing? You know, how can you do doing the best to your best, your ability, because that's going to help you be a happier, more rounded person. There's nothing wrong with.
00:39:01
Speaker
a relaxing day of nothing every once in a while. But if you string three or four of those together, that doesn't make you feel any better about yourself. But if you have three or four good days of like working hard at something, those days usually make you feel more proud and proud of yourself and you'd feel better. I mean, they were just moving rocks too, right? Michael Easter and the other guy. Yeah. The brother and yeah, that brother seemed like the most popular guy around and it sounded like they had an awesome time together and they had that community together and it didn't really matter what they were doing as long as they recognized the purpose behind it and the mission that they were after. So I thought that that was cool. but Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
00:39:52
Speaker
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00:40:21
Speaker
The chapter concludes detailing a conversation that Easter and the priest of the monastery have while on a walk through the wilderness, how we live in a world of fleeting happiness, of one upping our neighbors, of pursuing the next thing or even challenging our bodies. But we have to challenge our mind and our souls much more than our bodies. That's one thing I think the brothers really focused on or Michael took away from his time with them. One of the answers to growing our souls is through solitude.
00:40:51
Speaker
Solitude brings about great peace, joy, and happiness. The mind is sharper and keener in seclusion and uninterrupted solitude. How by getting to know ourselves and our creator in a private and intimate way will bring about an everlasting happiness.
Overcoming Scarcity and Embracing Vulnerability
00:41:08
Speaker
That's how the chapter ends. Chapter 11 definitely encourage everybody to go and read that one. We enjoyed it for sure. Finally, we close with the epilogue focused on what we do now. The chapter details Michael Easter's reflections over the past two years of his studies and research on the scarcity loop to write scarcity brain topics as Topics such as having the will to survive, how the awareness of death makes us feel more alive and appreciative of what we do have, and how we are how we have to overcome the loop by solving our problems in a different way moving forward. We have to take personal control to limit, slow down, resist, shift, and seize out the things that grab our attention and take hold of our lives.
00:41:56
Speaker
how we can turn scarcity loops into abundant loops that rewrite the script in a positive way. I personally enjoyed how this book ended. It felt like Easter was having his own mask of masculinity moment, a moment of true vulnerability, recognizing the shades of stoic and the invincible mask in his life.
00:42:17
Speaker
So we conclude with the last chapter of scarcity brain and Thomas, I'll have you lead this one off for us. What's one way that you can actively fight against the scarcity loop today to create a loop of abundance? That is an excellent question. And I like that you said all that. I think the fact that you looked in the mask of masculinity was was pretty cool and the stoicism and everything. I i think you're right.
00:42:50
Speaker
I would say, can you guys remember what the scarcity loop steps are? One, two, and three. The first one is opportunity. The second one is unpredictable rewards. And the third one is quick repeatability. Those are the things I feel like I took away from this book. Like if I can just remember those three things, I can identify and hopefully act on these things that we do without even thinking about the fact that we are doing them. And before you know it, we've done something that we didn't really want to do for like 30 minutes and wasted our time and just pretty much set ourselves up to be conditioned to do that in the future even easier. So if we can remember those three things, if we can create a little bit of space between the time we see an opportunity and identify it as a scarcity loop opportunity,
00:43:49
Speaker
and the time we act, that's gonna be so helpful. I personally think that for us, like small things like social media add up, small things like being distracted via really anything on the internet, but it could be other stuff we talked about like food. It doesn't seem like that big of a deal in the moment to fall into these loops. But if you take that and you extend it out for years and years on end,
00:44:19
Speaker
What kind of a life path is that gonna lead you on long-term? How much more could you have done in the direction that you wanted to live your life? You know, on your death bed looking back, are you gonna look at all of your time spent on Instagram and Facebook? Or even when you just- I would have just scrolled one more page. Yeah, if I would have just been able to argue with that one other guy who didn't have the same opinions- I have more friends. I could have changed the world.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i mean it's it's really like taking it from the small picture here in each little loop that only takes a matter of seconds to the big picture as it pertains to like our human nature to just keep doing those things over and over again. That's what I really take away is that like this stuff really matters big time. And the farther we get in the future, the more people are going to be able to manipulate us into falling into these things.
00:45:15
Speaker
harder and faster. And so we better nip it in the bud now. That's how I feel about the whole thing. So maybe to summarize for one way. So it sounds like just a conscious awareness and I would say that to it and trying to actively fight against it is.
00:45:34
Speaker
Is what you would say. I'm curious. I think you shared at the beginning of us starting the book that you had downloaded a UI app that would basically dumb down your phone and you were a week or so into that. I'm curious.
00:45:51
Speaker
over the course of this book or month, how has that journey been for you? And have you noticed yourself decreasing in your usage of social media, other loops that you've been known to fall into? ah I actually was gonna mention that. Thanks for bringing that up. I have kept it on my phone. I didn't went out and like go back to the old version. So like my phone lock screen and home screen and my app.
00:46:22
Speaker
window that brings up all the apps. It's all just black and white words. There's no icons or anything. So anytime I have to pull up an app, I have to search for it basically, which I think it's really changed. I still can get to all the apps that I would want to use scarcity loop wise like YouTube or something like that is still easy enough to get to for me to sit on it for 15 minutes without really thinking. But it's like the grabbing for your phone in a random moment for no reason that has really been diminished. Like I don't really do that anymore. So that's pretty cool. That's good. Yeah, because I have to spend time thinking as soon as I open that screen and look at the words in black and white, I have to be like, I have to think like, what is the app I'm looking for? And then half the time I'm just like, or more than half the time, I'm like,
00:47:15
Speaker
Ah, nevermind. It's not worth it. You know what's terrible? You know what's terrible? Is when you delete an app and then sometimes you're your app organization like shifts a block and then it's like, oh, this app used to always be there. You know, the fourth one over, second one down and then like your phone goes there and then it's not there and you're like, oh wait, what am I doing?
00:47:43
Speaker
Were you open a different app that you were meaning to open? Yeah, it's like I don't want to look at dictionary dot.com right now. You would have that app. Garrett, what about you, man? What's one way you're going to fight against the loop?
00:48:03
Speaker
Similar to what Thomas said, but I will incorporate Easter's other book, Comfort Crisis. I think I shared, I was not able to meet with Easter when I was out in Vegas last week, but I did not know that a few weeks ago. So I got Comfort Crisis trying to read that since you all already read it to be prepared in case I did get to meet with him. I'm still reading it. I'm not all the way through. I'm probably a third of the way through but and right now I'm in the caribou hunt section. And he talks a lot about boredom. And he made a really good comment instead of trying to get off of social media, spend less time on social media or spend less time on our phones. What are we losing when we do that? And he pressed into it like a positive goal of trying to have more boredom.
00:49:03
Speaker
because of what happens when our mind has nothing to do and the creativity that comes from that and the kind of the rest that our brain gets and the reset that it gets. So similar to what Thomas was saying, the only thing I would potentially add is really questioning and really pressing into why I just so much default pick up my phone. I put the kids to bed, boom, pick up the phone.
00:49:31
Speaker
I get up from my desk at the office to go to the bathroom, boom, pick up my phone, yeah read it on the way to the bathroom, to the break room, whatever. And not just those things, but then also I get the kids to bed, maybe I'm not on my phone, but then I'll go turn the TV on. And it's not just the phone, it's potentially screen time at a macro level, a holistic level of,
00:49:58
Speaker
What are ways that I can press into, you know what? I don't need to just fill this time. I don't need to just fill this space. Similarly, as we're all working on decreasing the amount of ums and likes and I thinks that we say through this podcast, it's similar. Those minor tiny gaps in time. Even on the car ride home, I don't need to listen to a podcast the entire drive to feel quote unquote productive.
Work-Life Balance: Fulfillment vs. Success
00:50:27
Speaker
I can just sit in that silence on the drive or sit on the couch, pull up a book, pray, like we're talking about. Those are things that I'm trying to actively fight against. The opportunity is always there. The remote, the phone, there's unpredictable ah ah rewards, right? Which new notifications do I have in Slack from work? Which new emails did I get?
00:50:57
Speaker
text messages, and then the quick repeatability with these smart TVs now. There's every app, every streaming service you could ever want right at your fingertips. That just really gets you into a scarcity loop, like the mindless scrolling that we've talked about.
00:51:18
Speaker
I think for me, the big one is my phone also. And I was listening to a song the other day that it's by Bastille, one of my favorite bands. Song is called Doom Days. And some of the verses in there, the whole song is just very relevant to everything we've been talking about throughout this book. And Some of the verses he says, I think I'm addicted to my phone, my scrolling horror show. I'm live streaming the final days of Rome. One tap along, it's pornographic. Everybody's at it. No surprise. We're so easily bored. Let's pick the truth that we believe in like a bad religion. Tell me all your original sins. So many questionable choices. We love the sound that our voice makes. Man, this echo chamber is getting loud.
00:52:14
Speaker
And then at the very end, he says, when I watch the world burn, all I think about is you. So I put my phone down and fall into the night with you.
00:52:25
Speaker
And I think that is so relevant to today. You should check out the song. If you haven't heard it, it's called doom days, but it's a good song either way. But I think he puts it there so well.
00:52:44
Speaker
we are We have access to so much information, addiction just from our phone. We can watch anything, almost anything at any point in the world. And it's messing with our brains. And so I love at the end when he says, I'm just gonna put my phone down and fall into the night with you.
00:53:13
Speaker
Put away the phone, put away the distractions and just be with the people that you want to be with. Find that connection, develop those relationships, work on those relationships and enjoy the moment with the people that are around you that you love and care about. Thanks for sharing that. It's awesome. Yeah, that's good. That's a big one for me that I'm trying to work on is just putting my phone down and spending time.
Healthy Lifestyle Changes
00:53:42
Speaker
quality time with the people that I'm with. One thing that I would like to do is do that Semené food challenge for a month or so. Anyone else you want to do that with me? che and a Yeah, man. I'd be down. I think our next book's going to be interesting on some of the food topics. I mean, getting to that to that topic, I found myself looking more at ingredients on foods. Yeah, me too. And trying to stick more to the less than five ingredients or single ingredient foods. So eating more vegetables, fruits, things of that nature, marians. Kind of on this kick right now too of just trying to make some lifestyle changes that will help us be healthier. So that is one thing that I'm noticing myself that
00:54:41
Speaker
I, I've been a big snacker and I want to snack less and be healthier and watch my intake. Yeah. Daphne, we've been having her doing like eating more food in the last month or so. And I have thought about that diet a lot because that's her diet right now. She eats single and ingredient foods. She's so healthy. Way to go.
00:55:10
Speaker
One of the funnier, just a funny quote I thought in relation to what we're doing as he ended the book, he goes back to that conversation he's having and Baghdad, and he tells the guy he's talking to that he's writing a book. So he tells the guy that he's writing a book, and the guy's response is, we don't read many books here. We have problems. Books are people who have relaxed lives. But it was really interesting Michael Easter included it because it was a funny comment of sorts. But I think it's almost ignorant to look at things that way. And obviously here we are, a group of people doing book club, right? But i I see reading books and discussing books as being a very enriching, deep thing that really helps one live life more.
Books as Tools for Growth
00:56:03
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know any thoughts on that. but I just, i was I was, I kind of was irked by that a little bit.
00:56:07
Speaker
I just took it as where he, that guy lived. They had so many problems. They didn't have time to read books. But I think my thought to that though is you have, if you don't value learning, you don't value education. You're going to continue to have problems. Oh yeah. I don't know. and maybe have taken we don't have to We don't have to include this part obviously, but like to me, that's like something where it's like, I don't know. I think that, I think when people say,
00:56:38
Speaker
When people say, oh, I just don't like reading books, like, it's just not fun. It's like, it's not always supposed to be fun. That's kind of, I don't know, as it comes to like the Scarcity Loop stuff, that's something that I think about. You don't have to do things that are fun. Like not everything you have to do has to be enjoyable or fun. Yeah, it's ah it's something to develop your mind. Yeah. It can be. Matt, I think you would not be.
00:57:05
Speaker
I think you had said something about books have been a level of scarcity loop for you, right? Like you don't know yeah what's, what's going to come in the book. Maybe it, maybe that comes with the genre of book. For me, it's definitely the genre of book. If I'm just reading for fun, yeah, it's just going to be fantasy books that I enjoy, but I'm not getting, I'm not learning anything.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not developing the mind. It's just pure entertainment.
The Role of Faith in Happiness
00:57:38
Speaker
Sure. I was just gonna mention how I found myself questioning happiness as being the ultimate goal, like we've been taught. I don't think it should be. It's in the Declaration of Independence, though, Thomas. That that's what's crazy is like the whole country was kind of set up to believe like, well, finding happiness is really one of the most high forms of living, right? Like chasing that, chasing that goal. And I don't know, like, like I was saying earlier, I just feel like that kind of almost sets you up for failure to expect to be able to control the happiness outcome. There's just so many unknowns in life, so many things that can come at you. And that's where prayer comes in. Like we were talking about earlier, like, I guess I didn't say, but like,
00:58:29
Speaker
The more unsure I am about what's next or hopeless or helpless I feel, the more likely I'm probably going to be praying about it. you Jumping back to the last chapter, a thought that I had as I was reading the whole monastery thing is I don't think we hear enough about monks and monasteries.
00:58:55
Speaker
in what we're taught. Rob, I don't know if that's different for me, for you growing up in the Catholic faith, but for me, I never heard anything about monks and monasteries. ah Really, the only thing I heard about them was Buddhists or people in Asian countries i become monks and they just sit there and do whatever it is they do, meditate.
00:59:23
Speaker
but In the history of the Christian church, monasteries have been monumental in the way that we have our modern life and society set up. Yeah. para point A lot of what we hear about the Middle Ages, Dark Ages, Renaissance, whatever, is the Crusades and how the Christian church people in power have abused their power and fought wars, which is true. I'm not diminishing that whatsoever. But you don't hear about the good things that the Christian church has done. Christians were the first people to develop monasteries, which became the first hospitals and community outreach centers, education system, education, health care people started the process of caring for their communities.
01:00:23
Speaker
and providing care, health, food, whatever it was, whatever that was needed to the people around them. Even the calendar, the Gregorian calendar. Yeah, there's so much that we, I never really learned about as a kid. I learned about it through my religion classes in college, but Yeah, I just wanted to point that out. Yeah. No, I appreciate you saying that. I think obviously over the past five, 10 years, I've grown in the faith and realized everything that's out there, how rich and deep
Scarcity Brain: Spiritual Growth Themes
01:01:03
Speaker
it is. And I thought it was cool. Obviously I'm a little biased, but I thought it was,
01:01:09
Speaker
I know, Garrett, like we had talked about it in the Mask of Masculinity, how I wish that Michael Easter would. In order to define masculinity, you really have to like speak to Jesus Christ and his life. and The spiritual mask of was something that we talked about maybe wanting to see. and I thought that it was cool that Michael Easter wanted to go this route with how the book ended. I was encouraged by that. and It showed the tug at his heart. I just thought it was really cool how he how we came around to look at some of these topics. Any final concluding thoughts, gentlemen? I enjoyed the book. Definitely, Thomas, I agree with you. Just that situational awareness and recognition, I think, for me, setting limits too on the phone. I know we spend a lot of time on that, but I have
01:02:04
Speaker
limits on Facebook or Instagram, and I click out of them every time the 15 minutes elapsed or reach that limit. So how do I stick to that? For example, if I'm going to set my alarm clock, how do I not press snooze? How do I not do the things that I know that I don't want to do, similar to Garrett, what you mentioned about the Apostle Paul. Any concluding thoughts, gentlemen?
01:02:31
Speaker
What about the fact that we know about the scarcity loop, but a lot of people out there don't really know how it all works. Well, you can follow us at book brothers podcast on Instagram. We'll feed you. No.
01:02:46
Speaker
yeah for sure, man. I know, man. yeah You're trying to get it to bed. But I was just gonna say like, it could really increase our level of humility and grace. I'm trying to be more kind this year. And my thoughts about anybody else that I might come across and maybe judge, judge a book by its cover. If you see somebody struggling with anxiety, maybe they don't know about the scarcity loop in their their focus is off and they have a hard time quieting their mind. Maybe it's almost like, well, you can't blame them. They're in this type of environment where they're just constantly bombarded with all these different things that they have to focus on. Or you see somebody struggling with their weight. Maybe the first thing you think isn't, well, they're just not disciplined, but man, they must have fallen into a loop that they have a hard time getting out of. So.
01:03:40
Speaker
I guess I'm going to take that away too. It's just like, how can I look at the outside world in a way that's maybe a little bit more giving people a break in terms of how we're all affected with this thing. And that's a unifying trait that we all have. Even though it can be negative, it can also be something that we look at and give people a break. Yeah, I like that. That's a great call. I like that insight, Thomas. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, very wise.
01:04:06
Speaker
I also just like the book as a whole. Yeah, I think this was Flaz's and maybe you, Stalen. I think you two were promoting this one. Did it live up to your expectations? Yeah, it was good. I mean, you know you all know I really enjoyed Comfort Crisis and I thought this was really good. follow up I feel like it was cool to see some really relatable stuff. talking you know As you talked about some of his own you know, issues with alcohol in the past, as well as kind of some of his inner thoughts. I think it's always encouraging whenever you see another male thinking through those things, talking through those things, because I think a lot of men don't. And I think it's, that's the encouragement that I get. And obviously that's why I love doing things like this, because the whole idea of helping yeah other guys to and encourage them to speak up with like things we're thinking and really helped to try to, to their,
01:05:03
Speaker
become better man, better people. I'm also excited. Real quick plug into the next book that we're going to read blue zones. Hey, some of the stuff that I've enjoyed with this book, talking about the chimene tribe and just getting out of our, what is it called? Ethnocentrism that these other areas of the world, other people groups, we don't know everything where we live.
01:05:33
Speaker
Something that's kind of ingrained in our culture is America's number one kind of mentality, whether we say it or think it, it can, it's kind of at a subconscious level, whether it's from sports or GDP, whatever it is. Yeah. There's a lot we can learn from so many people all around the world. And I'm excited that.
01:05:54
Speaker
This is another, this new book, it will kind of evolve and play off of that, of learning from tribes like the Chumeines on how to have better diets and how to live longer, things like that.
01:06:12
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this replayed episode of the Books Brothers podcast. We'll return next week for season six and the start of year two of the podcast. We're pivoting topics and we'll read a historical fiction book called Gates of Fire, an epic novel of the Battle of Thermopylae, which is the battle that the movie 300 was based off of. We'll post a link to purchase the book and the show notes so you can read along with us.
01:06:35
Speaker
If you have enjoyed listening or benefited from our conversation, please subscribe, give us a review, and share with a friend