Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S7.E2 - Endurance - Part 2
18 Plays1 day ago
This week Garrett leads our discussion of Part 2 from Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing.
- 1:50: In what ways do you feel caught up in life’s fast-paced environment and miss out on the pleasures of the ordinary and the mundane?
- 12:55: What amenities do you take for granted? In what ways could you grow and develop in self-reliance?
- 32:40: What is it about losing faith or hope that is so important to the human psyche? What can the Endurance story teach us in this regard about the everyday moments of our lives at home and at work?
Next week we’ll discuss Part 3 (pages 123 - 174).
You can buy the book on Amazon by clicking here.
You can also borrow it at your local library. Don’t have a library card, or unsure where your local library is? Search on Google Maps, or find your local library by clicking here.
Follow us on Instagram @booksbrotherspodcast
Email us at connect@booksbrotherspodcast.com
Please subscribe and give us a review! We would really appreciate it.
See you next week! Until then - read, reflect, and connect.
Recommended
Transcript
Shackleton's Leadership and Crew's Survival
00:00:21
Speaker
Part 2 recaps the first two months of living life on the ice flow. The crew abandoned ship after the ice crushed it and ended up being another three and a half weeks before the ship actually sank to the bottom of the Weddell Sea.
00:00:38
Speaker
This book details various crew members' personalities, from men who were scared of starving to death, to others who signed up for the expedition for its scientific purposes and not prepared for wilderness survival, and how Shackleton led and managed through all of this. It also details how the men survived by hunting and killing seals to maintain their food supply.
00:01:03
Speaker
Most importantly, it detailed how they planned to survive at all. They initially attempted to hike through the flow to the edge of it with their boats to sail on open waters to the nearest inhabited island more than 350 miles away.
00:01:19
Speaker
But because of the summer heat, the melting ice pack and unfavorable landscape made it literally impossible to pick up and move their camp anywhere.
Finding Joy in Simple Pleasures
00:01:30
Speaker
Prior to the sink shipping, the men made several trips back to the endurance, gathered as many supplies as humanly possible, and set up camp on the flow with no end in sight to their journey and no firm plan of escape. So With this book, there were a few parts that really stuck out to me. Chapter five of part two had a lot of really reflective and impactful comments that I wanted to hit on for today's discussion. One man journaled on the boredom and just like the lifestyle of day in and day out hunting, living on the ice flow. And he says this life quote has its attractions.
00:02:15
Speaker
I read somewhere that all a man needs to be happy is a full stomach and warmth, and I begin to think it is nearly true. No worries, no trains, no letters to answer, no collars to wear, but I wonder which of us would not jump at the chance to change it all tomorrow." End quote. but do you guys like To what extent do you agree with this statement?
00:02:39
Speaker
And along with that, in what ways do you feel caught up in the current pace of your life and are missing out on life's pleasures in the more mundane parts of every day?
Being Present in Daily Life
00:02:52
Speaker
I mean, I can agree with what he's saying there or what that quote is about. I got hit with this thought the other week where it was like, I want to be surprised by the ordinary.
00:03:04
Speaker
I think so many times in my life, like I go about and I do kind of the same thing every day. And so there's a lot of like monotony or repetitiveness in the things that I am doing. so I don't know, I was walking and I was just like, man, I want to be surprised by the ordinary. And so it's like, when you when you can look at the sun setting and you can see all the different gradients in in the sky, or you you know now that we're by water, ah so we take a lap around part of the lake. and
00:03:37
Speaker
You can see birds coming in, landing on the water, flying away. And it's just kind of amazing to watch. We also live by a airport too, but sometimes we get these like fighter jets that come by and they make these crazy loud sounds and it's just like stopping and looking at them and feeling like a kid. it's It's really cool to stop and be present to the things around you.
00:04:01
Speaker
kind of like a kid with curiosity, but ah otherwise it would be like, I'm going to be on my phone or I'm going to call somebody and have the AirPods in and I'm going to miss all of these things that are happening around me that might seem like normal things ah that I might miss if I'm kind of living in the mundane repetitiveness of my day.
00:04:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think that's good, Rob. I think I can relate to a lot of what you're saying about just enjoying kind of the small things. As he talks about this quote that you bring up, Garrett, I found myself, as I was reading this quote, thinking kind of envying this, envying the guy writing this. and I don't remember who what the name of it he was, but then he gets to the very end and he's like, yeah, but we would all like leave this if we could.
00:04:50
Speaker
And I'm like, yep, yep, I feel that too. like I definitely get that sense of I envy the contentment, but then also the escape kind of side of it. And I think like with what Rob is saying, I think that there's a lot of times where I might like be about doing something and I might get a thought of like, oh, it would be really nice to like just go like sit over there on the ground for a long time. And I don't do it usually.
00:05:16
Speaker
never really do it, but kind of the idea of being content in a moment and enjoying a moment. And I think it's something that I've never been great at. I think I've always kind of wanted to like move on to the next thing. um you know As you guys know, I do a lot of hiking as well as trail running. And I think you see people when they get to a peak, they just do things differently. Some people, they get to a peak and they stay there for a while. They might have lunch. they you know They sit around, some people they turn around right away. um I think I've always been the turn around right away kind of person. There's maybe been just a few times in my life where I can really look back to like a hike where it was really sitting and enjoying the moment at the top. And again, especially since I'm doing a lot of this for fitness, it's the goal isn't to enjoy it, enjoy the views at the top, but rather to get the task done. But I think Rob's got there something we said about kind of enjoying those ordinary moments.
00:06:10
Speaker
That was actually something I tried to press into during our hike in the grand canyon. Yeah. As we recapped it earlier this month, just, uh, there, were there were some times when I would get up ahead and, um, when you all were doing your like interval gamification or whatever.
00:06:29
Speaker
I'd be like, all right, I'll wait for him to get caught up. And while I did that, I was like, let's be intentional to like sit here and look at the Grand Canyon while the sun is setting because. Yeah, I was, I'm a very big achiever and the goal is to accomplish the hike. And I'm definitely someone who can get to the destination and turn right around. And it was really good to take those moments to just kind of drink in.
00:06:57
Speaker
the view and take it in something that I don't always do so I can relate with that. I think naturally I am terrible at being content. I get really uncomfortable with comfort, which I don't mean that and like ah don't mean that in a good way. I'm not trying to be like a David Goggins. i mean like It's more of in a self-sabotage type way where I have all that I need now like and what I want and let's screw it all up somehow.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, seriously. So I have to do like intentional practices to find content in it. I don't know. I have to meditate in order to be able to sit and kind of enjoy things at a much slower pace.
00:07:46
Speaker
I think having community with that is is helpful. I don't know if you feel that way, Adam, but reflecting on things. And I think after after I'd kind of shared, I'd shared gear at something you said reminded me of this. Just today, I had a really light work day. Ruth was home, wasn't working today, and she was taking a nap, and Daphne was wanting to play and stuff. So I just went outside and like Daphne went up and down. the like We have this like little tiny slide, and Daphne played on the slide for like 20, 30 minutes. and I would say for like the first half of it, I was very like, okay, let's see how long it takes until she's kind of like tired of this and we can like do the next thing. and I tried to, and I'm not going to say I was good at, but like just trying to like
Technology's Impact on Presence
00:08:30
Speaker
be with her like the second half. and It was much more enjoyable for me and I would imagine much more enjoyable for her too.
00:08:37
Speaker
Can you relate to that as a parent, Garrett? like Rob used the term kind of enjoying the ordinary. Do you feel like it's you struggle with that being a parent? Because I think kids, they can find such joy out of such simple things.
00:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, I think I can't not think of anxious generation yeah and other things like in my work and how we're creating content on TikTok and different consumer bases. And it's like, yeah, our, our attention span is shortening and shortening and shortening. And.
00:09:08
Speaker
It is a it's paradoxical, but we'll be on our phones more because we're bored. But yet what that does is it creates and in us an easier ability to become bored.
00:09:21
Speaker
um So it actually doesn't solve any issues. So with like our boredom, we have to be comfortable with sitting and like not being entertained all the time. I feel that a lot when it comes to spending time with my kids because it's a different pace, especially when they're younger, like Daphne's age, like one. And yeah, I i try to set rules where it's like, I'm not going to be on my phone when I'm spending time with my kids and.
00:09:48
Speaker
When I'm with them, because I think as we're getting older, they're playing more and more by themselves. And so like my time I'm spending with them is slowly but surely becoming less and less in a way, you know, they go to school now and daycare. So my, my thought is like, when I'm with them, be unbelievably present, like just present with them, whether if they want to wrestle, let's wrestle.
00:10:10
Speaker
If they want to play a game, but I really feel it because they're very much in their creative mode where they just make up stories with their Legos and stuff. And they're like, Dad, you be this and make a fire station with us. And it's yeah, it can be very hard for me to.
00:10:28
Speaker
not want to like look at the college football scores or whatever while I'm playing with them because I'm like, yeah. And it's like, no, be present. And it definitely, it pays off. You can't always see the ah ROI per se, but it's more fulfilling when you're present, but I totally feel it.
00:10:46
Speaker
I appreciate that though. I think it's a good encouragement. Yeah. One of the best compliments I've received from Sarah recently was that I'm never on my phone. Nice. It's like sitting out at the brunch. She's like, you know, one thing I really like about you is that you're never on your phone. It's nice. It's good. It's nice.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah super nice just presence. One thing I thought of when I wrote this question was my time living in China and how we took public transportation everywhere and in the city we lived in, you know, it's one of the highest populated cities in the world.
00:11:25
Speaker
And at a minimum, you're going to spend 30 to 45 minutes going one way somewhere. And like when we went to our church, if we got there quickly, it was 45 minutes. It would take closer to an hour typically. And that sounds so long. Like, Oh my gosh, that's how much time are you wasting just traveling places? But.
00:11:50
Speaker
What I realized when you're spending time committed to like literally transit or commuting, you have to say no to a lot of other things. And our, our life was not as busy and we had more like intentional time with our friends. Cause it's like, Hey, let's go eat dinner. Okay. We'll see you in an hour. So when you get there, that's, that's why you're going.
00:12:13
Speaker
And we haven't gotten there yet, but as our kids get older, when we enroll them in sports and practice learning an instrument, and it just seems so easy to just get into the blocking and tackling of life and accomplishing to do lists. And it's like, man, I kind of liked that simpler life of only had like one or two things planned a day when we lived in China. Cause that's all we had time for. Cause it took so long to get anywhere.
00:12:42
Speaker
And yet, I'm like, I kind of like this. And then when we move back to the US, it's like, all right, who wouldn't just want to change it tomorrow? So yeah, we
Self-Reliance and Modern Conveniences
00:12:50
Speaker
just jump back into it, have something planned every night, things like that. OK, so along similar lines, continuing in that chapter, the book is like a couple of pages later, the book states that quote, and the men had been forced to develop a degree of self-reliance greater than they had ever imagined possible.
00:13:09
Speaker
After spending four hours sewing an elaborate patch on the seat of his only pair of trousers, Macklin, one of the guys, wrote, What an ingrate I have been for such jobs when done for me at home.
00:13:22
Speaker
Greenstreet felt, another guy, felt much of the same way after he had devoted several days to scraping and curing a piece of seal skin to resole his boots. He paused in the midst of his task to write in his diary, one of the finest days we have ever had, a pleasure to be alive, end quote. So it's a somewhat similar question, but it's got some differentiators. What amenities and conveniences do you take for granted in life?
00:13:51
Speaker
And do you all think it's important to develop self-reliance when more and more things in our everyday lives like chores, tasks, and I mean, even parenting responsibilities can be outsourced. And, you know, if you think it's important to develop self-reliance.
00:14:09
Speaker
Like car maintenance is one that comes to mind. Like, why do you think that is important? And like, what areas do you need to develop self-reliance in more? So several questions there.
00:14:23
Speaker
Well, before getting into the this, Garrett, the question reminds me of when they first get on first get on the ice, and because they're essentially a stripped down of all of all of their materials. So they lose all their materials and they have to basically simplify everything to the chorus value. And one of the quotes in this book that I just loved is, so Shackleton is encouraging all the men. He's like, hey, you guys have to get rid of everything. I think the number was two pounds.
00:14:49
Speaker
they could get down to two pounds of weight of personal items, which is an absurd number to think about. but So anyway, so he's encouraging them to get down to two pounds of weight. So after he had spoken, he reached under his parka and took out a gold cigarette case and several gold sovereigns and threw them into the snow at his feet. So he literally grabbed gold and just threw it on the ground getting rid of gold. Then he opens the Bible that was given to him by Queen Alexandra and he ripped out the phyleth of the Bible that had a personal note that she wrote him and then he also ripped out the page containing the 23rd Psalm and a page from the book of Job. The verse that was on this page was, out of whose womb came the ice and the hoary frost of heaven who hath gendered it. The waters are hid as with the stone and the face of the deep is frozen.
00:15:36
Speaker
I just like love the quote, just because it's like, he here he is, they're stripping all of their, basically, items that remind of back of home. And here he chooses to keep ah just a couple pages from the Bible, 23rd Psalm, great, great choice there, but then a page that truly just reminds him of his situation. I mean, if you you know if you look more into the book of Job, the book of Job is all about, Job essentially faces this big trial.
00:16:01
Speaker
huge trial in his life where ah the devil, like, Satan tempts him and he essentially comes out better on the other end through this trial. So I just love this because it's that sets the stage for how he wants his men to be, you know, kind of to embrace this opportunity. So kind of a long, long intro to this, but Garrett, what you asked just reminded me of it.
00:16:23
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. That was one of my favorite parts as well. And yeah, again, my questions are just a ah guide to the conversation. So I, I love that you, you took your own avenue with that, but he definitely had some Leonidas dining. He's qualities where he, he did all the grunt work chores like the crewmen.
00:16:44
Speaker
He wasn't above that. And then, yeah, he's like, hey, you guys need to strip down to two pounds like you were saying. And here's a Bible given to me by the queen of England and gold. And I'm putting it in the snow. yeah And I can't I couldn't find a quote, but.
00:17:02
Speaker
this really resonated with me and just my boy scout like i mean i probably look like so silly i had like three layers on at the start of the hike and i was i like had stripped down the shorts like not even a quarter mile and i had to carry that weight the rest of the time and i'm like let's be over prepared for any scenario And he goes, I find that the people who make do with little, just like to straight up survive, do better than those who pack and plan for every sort of scenario. And I'm like, gosh, that is so good. That's the quote I thought you were going to say, Stalen. Those burdened with equipment to meet every contingency fared worse than those that had sacrificed preparedness for speed.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's good. That kind of brings it back to this question that Garrett's asking. And I think I definitely feel like I take for granted things, um you know, as far as like things with my home, you know, I'm not the most handy when it comes to my home. I've never worked on my car.
00:18:07
Speaker
I'm not even at this point not even doing my own like like yard like landscaping stuff and It definitely I think it's something that at times it maybe I feel self-conscious about some of those things I think though in like the modern world essentially It's like when you can choose to outsource certain things you have the ability to, it definitely feels worth it if you're you know getting your time back from the places. But to go back with like what maybe what Rob kind of that quote references a little bit is, but can I do what I need to do and accomplish what I need to do in these kind of scenarios? And at this point, I would say no. If I was in like a crisis scenario, I don't think that I would handle it the best. And and it's something to definitely think about.
00:18:50
Speaker
There's a guy that works for my company that I talked to a couple weeks back, about a month back. He lives in um Asheville and he had to leave where he lived because of like the flooding and stuff, all the storms, that kind of thing.
00:19:06
Speaker
And in that conversation, he just is like, Hey, do you mind if I share a few things that I learned like from this, like emergency situation? And it was really interesting. And it was something where he was like, I didn't, these are things I didn't think about that. Good to be better prepared for. And I think it's definitely something to go through and, you know, talked about with your family.
Daily Disciplines and Gratitude
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah. So what, what amenities and conveniences do you take for granted in life? So I've i've got a couple of things that came to mind when I was thinking on this one, I'm doing a, the advent season just started right now for the days leading up to Christmas. So I joined a like a men's group through My church, my buddy invited me. There's like 10 of us guys. So we're doing daily disciplines, like eight daily disciplines. And we're checking in with each other from an accountability standpoint. But one of them is taking cold showers two days a week.
00:20:04
Speaker
So today was my first one that I had to take and I, you know, I've done this before cause I did it for three months before I got married. But the last time I had taken a cold shower was in the month of October and now it's December. So that cold shower hits a little different. I tell you guys, no joke. I literally like rolled to work an hour later, still cold. My like circulation was still coming back. like I tried to make it quick. but So warm water is definitely one you take for granted when you're when you're wanting to shower, for sure. But electricity too, like we were going to host a party. matt Matt was there, like a housewarming party. and That morning, our power had gone out. until like
00:20:49
Speaker
We were like, oh my gosh, like are we gonna have to cancel the party or whatever? But just just the fact that like, oh, thank goodness I parked my car outside and not in the garage so that we could like still go places, but just not being able to get like ready in the light, those types of like inconveniences, we definitely take for granted. and And when your car goes down too, it's like you gotta rely on people for rides.
00:21:14
Speaker
Those were some of the things that I thought about, but definitely more of the handyman chore things. I hear you, Stalen. I know we've we talked about this in Mask of Masculinity where it's like I look to some guys because they can do all these things and they can fix all these things and that doesn't necessarily make them more man than me.
00:21:35
Speaker
But there are definitely times where it's like, man, I want to be able to fend for myself better, especially when you have people counting on you like a wife and kids. And so, yeah, just growing in reliance so that you can carry your troop along as well. So I want to dig into that real quick. And it's a safe space.
00:21:59
Speaker
But and I think a lot of this conversation I had with a friend from Crewe in Springfield, and he was talking about maintaining his home and how he's, he this is like 10 years ago, which shows how, it what he said stuck out to me. He was talking about how he was working on his home and his next door neighbor.
00:22:25
Speaker
was a Christian guy, was like two generations older, like could have been his grandpa kind of age and would encourage my friend to do his own maintenance, to fix his own cars and talked about it. And he said like, this is part of growing as a man. ah It was part of your manhood, developing self-reliance.
00:22:51
Speaker
more or less. So you said, Rob, because someone can do more handyman things, that doesn't make them more of a man than me. I'm not saying you're less of a man. What I want to know, like sometimes deep down, if I'm honest though, I'm like, I feel like I kind of agree with my friend's neighbor though, where it's like Brooke, like a tense thing that we have every Christmas is I want to hang up our Christmas lights and we could pay to have it done.
00:23:18
Speaker
But I think of my friend's neighbor's quote, and I'm like, no, I'm going to do it. I am physically able. I will be safe. yeah It will save us money. I'm going to do it. And it's like purely like a pride thing. Like I'll admit it, but it's also maybe it's something about unique about being a man. But when I do it, I'm like, I had like so much more satisfaction when I look at the lights on my house. I'm like, I did that.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah. for sure i'm just like me To what extent is like, like, yeah, our identity is not in what we can accomplish ultimately. But I do wonder, I'm like, should I be pressing in? Like I don't do my car maintenance anymore. I used to change the oil, um, stuff like that. And now I'm just like, gosh, the mechanics right down the street. I'm like super busy with work.
00:24:07
Speaker
I got two kids. I want to spend my weekend with them. Not, you know, what do you guys think? I think we're stealing. You've hit on it. One of the reasons you don't do your lawn care is because that time to do it, you'd rather spend 25, 50 bucks, whatever it is to pay somebody so that you can get that hour of your time back because time has value and your time is worth more than $50 or whatever it is because you want to spend it doing x, y, or z with your family, right?
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah. So Garrett, I think for me, my comment around that was like kind of getting back to the mask of masculinity a little bit where it's like if some guy can fix his car, but he goes inside and beats his wife and beats his kid, he's an alcoholic. He doesn't know the things that are going on wrong in his life. He's not a man. He's not more man than someone that doesn't do those things, but can't fix his car. If anything, that, that guy's more of a childish,
00:25:13
Speaker
Yahoo, you know, so I think it's, I think terms with like, just looking at it from a holistic standpoint and saying like, Okay, you put it two people side by side and one can't change the car oil, but the other can't. It doesn't necessarily mean that the one that can't is less of a man because he probably has other strengths that the other one doesn't, right? But I also do get what the individual is saying, like your friend, because those things, when done, they definitely do
00:25:51
Speaker
generate a sense of pride and accomplishment and the be and to be able to serve in that way and to provide for your family is similar as being able to go to work and bring home a paycheck and provide for your family that way. So I think when you look at it that way, it's they're just different ways of providing and taking care of. But one gets associated more with be a man, which we've debunked that Yeah. Plus, what do you think? Yeah, I get, I get what are your neighbor is saying, but.
00:26:28
Speaker
Would you rather make a million dollars a year and pay somebody to put up your Christmas lights or make like 30K a year and have to do it because you're broke? I don't know. i just I'm just trying to think about it in a different way because I agree with Rob. I think it's toxic. I think that the it's a toxic i hate using this this word or this phrase, but I think it's it's a version of toxic masculinity to say that you're more of a man because you are a handyman.
00:26:58
Speaker
you I think that's toxic. I think that- I think it really has to do with how much chest hair one has. That's my understanding. Yeah. And I mean, you're going to tell me that, you know, I can deadlift, I could deadlift 700 pounds, but I couldn't change my own oil. But then you're going to tell me that the dude at the car service is more of a man than me because I didn't change my oil. Definitely, dude. I like how you use that. I like how you use like an ever, like also like overlay toxic mask. Yeah.
00:27:36
Speaker
little whimp I I think that on that list, though, I think ah car mechanics ranks above weightlifting abilities. ah ah In terms of manliness, that's so funny. In terms of manliness, we'll up a scale. We'll develop a scale. We'll put in the show notes.
00:27:56
Speaker
How manly are you? I think maybe what I, cause I agree with everything you guys are saying. I think sometimes it, it might just go back to the comfort crisis thing. Yeah. Is it, am I just trying to create a world where I just am more comfortable and then I like take, yeah, life's pleasures for granted because yeah, I mean, we,
00:28:15
Speaker
We have like a house cleaner who comes once a month. Uh, it's, it's two women actually, and they do a really good job, but it took me a long time to like mentally be okay with that because I'm like, guys, we can clean our own toilets and vacuum our own floors. Right. And with two kids, trust me, we still do that, but it's very nice knowing once a month, we're going to have a full house clean, you know? And so it's like, okay, like.
00:28:43
Speaker
Some of it's pride in the opposite direction where it's like, no, I can do everything. And then what I do is I just like that achiever goes on overdrive and then I'm not fun to be around because I'm always on like turn into a drill sergeant. We got to do everything ourselves. So yeah, I, it's not like a Boy Scout Maribach of like manhood where you you check certain boxes. It's more of maybe it's just like a perspective or a mentality that I think about of like.
00:29:10
Speaker
Am I pressing into the discomfort and there's some value in that, but I don't have an answer. That's why I wanted to ask. Yeah. I think Garrett, he said, though, maybe it's the reminder to take inventory of, are there things that you're actively seeking? This isn't, I mean, this question to myself and to everyone, but the things in your life that you're choosing to do.
00:29:32
Speaker
that are intentionally uncomfortable or you're you're doing something and you you don't necessarily want to do it. And I think that if we have very minimal things like that in our life, that's probably an issue. Like there probably should be some things in our life that we don't want to do. Do. Yeah. Do do.
00:29:49
Speaker
precitated I take for granted but like living in an apartment complex, you know, I take for granted, you know, not having to fix anything because if something breaks, I can just call Mike, the maintenance guy. Hey.
00:30:05
Speaker
Hey, and clog the toilet again i unclog it it's funny adam i mean you bring that up. Like there's stuff that I would put under the category of house maintenance that I would not have put under the category of house maintenance before. And it's things that just seem like very simple things, but they just take time and they're, they're not things that are fun to do. And the example that I think of is when I moved in our house, we changed out all of our light switches.
00:30:32
Speaker
And we moved in in the summer. And so it was like our basically turning the power off and on our house getting very hot and changing out light switches. And it was just, yeah, it's the little things that there's so many stupid little tasks with owning home.
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah. Fun story on the topic of calling Mike the maintenance guy. The first time in my life, two weeks ago when I was in LA, I had to go to the front desk on my way out as I was heading to meetings and I'm like, hey, when you're like cleaning the rooms, can you can you unclog the toilet?
00:31:11
Speaker
It was so embarrassing. and I kid you not. I kid you not. She's like, yeah, I'll go ahead and put in like the maintenance request. Like it wasn't under housekeeping. It was maintenance and I kid you not. I get home at the end or I get back at the end of the day and there was a letter in in the bathroom from the maintenance scene like ah Dear valued guests, we have completed your maintenance request. That was like so embarrassing. We think you should go to the doctor because what we saw is not normal. It was pretty embarrassing.
00:31:54
Speaker
speaking of China, real one more story on that clogged a toilet in China and just had to go get, had to go get a plunger. That was like the only thing I needed. So I'm in this Chinese grocery store and I check out and like, no, no food, just a plunger. And I didn't know the Chinese word for plunger. So I was just like,
00:32:15
Speaker
csu Thank you. and Just walk down with a plunger. It's like, there's only one reason why this guy is here. Oh man. All right. We're speaking of pooping in the Antarctica did not sound fun having to wipe with ice. Yeah. Yeah. It's brutal. Bringing us back to the book here. Um, let's move away from poop and get back to the book. So still in chapter, I think it was five. Great segue.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah, segueing out of defecation, when discussing the topic of leading the crew, now living on the ice, ah in chapter five, the author notes that Shackleton, or quote, Shackleton was concerned of all their enemies, the cold, the ice, the sea. He feared none more
Hope, Faith, and Managing Fear
00:33:03
Speaker
than demoralization, end quote.
00:33:06
Speaker
I thought that was just fascinating and accurate. So what do you guys think it is about losing hope or faith, losing optimism in life that is so important to the human psyche and flourishing? And and like, what what can this teach us not about not just like the most extreme life-threatening circumstances that like Shackleton and his crew faced, but also in the everyday moments that we live at our jobs with our families, et cetera.
00:33:35
Speaker
I think we always think, and I don't know if it's a figure of speech or what, but we always think that things are like the end of the world. Like we say that like, Oh, this is the end of the world. Or we kind of over exaggerate situations in our heads and make them be like, this is the worst thing ever. Or, you know, like when you're going to have a tough day at work,
00:34:00
Speaker
Like maybe you're getting back from vacation and you know, you're going to be slammed and it's like, Oh, I'm going to be slammed. This is going to be the worst day ever. But like for me in those situations, it's like suck it up. It's going to be eight, 10 hours of literally sucking. But guess what? By the end of the day, I'm probably going to be caught up and everything's going to be okay. It's not life or death. And tomorrow is like the sun will rise and it'll be okay.
00:34:28
Speaker
I think sometimes having viewing the small things as being these big blown out things is really what makes that can make that worse, kind of that almost like the spiraling of things. and I know for me, there's been times where I've just gotten stressed out, worked up over just like stupid little things.
00:34:46
Speaker
And I think that's where it's been like helpful to have like um have Ruth have a partner to you know kind of reassess and recenter me on a situation. And Rob, as you mentioned, I think having had a little more life experience now than say maybe 10 years ago, I think going through more stuff, you you kind of come to this these challenges with a little bit more wisdom and a little less fear. Because I think for me, it's fear a lot of times that causes lack of optimism and feeling really negative and and spiraling. As you're asking this question, Garrett, I think it's a great question. It's just such a deep thing to consider. It really reminded me back to working with patients in the clinic.
00:35:25
Speaker
And, you know, working with people who've had chronic back pain, you know, for example, so chronic back pain is like, it's the most common reason people call off work um is back pain. It's the biggest expense of all medical expenses in America is back pain. And having worked with so many people that dealt with that, I would say at any given point, that population is probably 30, 40% of the people that we're seeing are coming in for chronic. And what I mean by that is like one year longer back pain.
00:35:53
Speaker
And I really saw, and the research really points to this, that any time someone has chronic pain, you know, so pain lasting six months, a year or longer, ah there is a huge component of psychological issue component of it. um And by that, I mean that there is other life factors that play a role that kind of cause this negative perception, these ah really just lack of hope, fear for the future. There's so many patients that kind of mind when I think of think about this, but All these patients had unique things that and challenges they're facing, but a lot of commonalities, you know, troubled marriages, difficulty with their kids or with their parents, financial issues. And so I think that kind of the compounding effect can really
00:36:40
Speaker
you know, these things are contributing to their pain. And I think about that it as it relates to this, just because I feel like I worked with a lot of people who just had very little hope and faith in life. And it wasn't big catastrophic events that had happened. It was usually just a series of small things. Yeah. Interesting that having no hope can prevent healing.
00:37:03
Speaker
Did you guys think about man search for meaning at all during the summer? I was going to bring that up. I was going to say, I wish Matt was on the call because I feel like he'd bring it up. So I'm glad you joined the call, Thomas. Yeah, me too, man. Yeah, no, I was reminded a lot by the, uh, I mean, man search for meaning is a book that really delves into the psychological aspects of hope.
00:37:24
Speaker
and how hope is a lot of times what keeps people alive more than any other factor in circumstances that seem impossible to survive. You know, the fact that Shackleton's main concern here is a morale of the team and the fact that he was so good at picking out personalities that seemed to gel together pretty well. I think that's probably key in these guys as a group, kind of being able to stick it out.
00:37:52
Speaker
know I also think of anxiety and how I, in my own personal experience, I can have physical manifestations of pain or symptoms of illness or injury that I don't actually have because it's in my head, like my anxiety.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah, just like how, how the, I get mean, it's a silly analogy, but I think of the movie, the matrix or it's like, if you die in the matrix, you die for real. And, uh, the guys like the body cannot live without the mind. You know, it's like hope human psyche is like affects everything.
00:38:31
Speaker
Anything else on this book? I mean, just just wild. like You have limited ammo. So it's like, guys, instead of shooting these seals, go up and smack them on the nose and then take your pickaxe and brain them to death. Wild. Like, hey, these puppies that you've been living with for a year, go around the corner, put your pistol in their in their jaw and shoot them.
00:38:54
Speaker
like Whoa. I mean, like true. Like we are about survival. Like you're eating the boys were built different. Yeah. I mean, really just to just quickly note on what Tom is saying, it does feel like they were built different. It doesn't feel like there's very many people in our world that could do this. Survive this, that is.
00:39:17
Speaker
At first, everybody hates the cold weather and the physical hardships, but I think the mental toll after that long on the ice with nothing to do, no different things to see, having to put down your dogs, like man, that would be really, really difficult.