Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to the Books Brothers Podcast. I'm Flez and I'm here the bros. I'm Matt. I'm Rob. Garrett. And I'm Thomas. What started as a casual book club somehow turned into a podcast and at this point we're just rolling with it.
Speaker: Today we're diving into Principle 5, Solve Your Solvable Problems and Coping with Typical Solvable Problems from The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman and Ann Silver.
Speaker: But before we get started on that, for this week's segment of They Don't Make Them Like They Used To, let's talk about some snacks from the How about Dunkaroos?
Speaker: Anyone like Dunkaroos?
Speaker: Wait, this is sad. I have to look what this is up. You don't know Dunkaroos are? I got look them up too. Oh, they're the cookies of the frosting combo. Oh, wow. I don't know if I ever had those.
Speaker: What? Rob, tell me you had some Dunkaroos. Oh, man. i don't know, man I can tell you what I did have, though. What'd you have? SpaghettiOs. oh Oh.
Speaker: Y'all know about some SpaghettiOs, man? I used to turn down real dinner for SpaghettiOs. I still eat SpaghettiOs with my kids. But the side of fruit roll-ups and gushers or what?
Speaker: That was all about the ho-ho. Oh. Ho-ho. I don't know this where you were. What?
Speaker: Wow. ah Wow. I would try to always take like the outer coating off. like I would just try to savor it for a long time, which kind of explains why...
Speaker: My son is the way that he is. We'll eat like grapes and he will like sometimes just peel off the grape skin before eating the grape. I'm like, dude, just eat it.
Speaker: I guess he got that gene from me. and I'm making connections in real time here. The synapses are firing. On all cylinders. Clearly. I don't know if I've ever actually eaten Dunkaroos.
Speaker: I don't think I have. Do they still make them? If so, you need to order some. Google says they were discontinued in 2012. Man, missed out. But then there's something that says their second run. So first run was 1990, so you hit it perfect, the 90s.
Speaker: And then the second run was 2020. Dunkaroos made a comeback in 2020 with fans requesting, calling all 90s kids Dunkaroos. You can order them from Amazon for 10 bucks.
Speaker: Do it. Vanilla cookies. Do it. Your kids will love you.
Speaker: yeah So in our office, we do a lot of like snacks. You know, we had pies for pie day. We have a lot of pizza, a lot of like unhealthy things. So I've been trying to.
Speaker: Way to brag, Rob. What? Way to brag. No, I've been trying to focus on healthier snacks in the office. So we've been doing some parfait days.
Speaker: Build your own parfait with fresh fruit and yogurt. But the other day or the other month, I got some Go-Gurt for some of the Gen Zers in the office. So we had some people slurping on some Go-Gurt.
Speaker: Go-Gurt. Be careful on that yogurt though. like It has more sugar than you would think.
Speaker: But I guess you work at chocolatier. How do you say it? Confectionary. Confectionary. So it's probably 22 grams of sugar. Oh, 22 grams of sugar will keep a pediatrician away, man.
Speaker: That's almost half a soda. What about Capri Sun? How much sugar is in Capri Sun? Dude, don't tell me we'll have to return them for Clark's birthday. Uh-oh.
Speaker: Rob, any time someone says parfait, I just think of Shrek. Yes! When Donkey's like, you know what everybody loves? Parfait. ah Parfait? You don't have no parfait. 8.8 grams of sugar.
Speaker: Ooh. her
Speaker: ah All right. Moving on. And... Principle five. Now, look, every relationship has arguments. Some fights, totally unsolvable.
Speaker: never going to agree on whether You're never going to agree on whether pineapple belongs on pizza, and that's fine. But other fights, completely fixable if you handle them the right way.
Speaker: And that's what today's discussion is all about. How to stop having the same dumb fights over and over again and actually solve them. So let's get into it. Breakdown principle five, how to solve solvable problems. Gottman lays out a five step playbook for handling everyday arguments without making things worse.
Speaker: And let's be honest, we've all made them worse at some point. First step, soften the startup. Ever start a fight like you're trying to win an Oscar for best drama? You never listen to me. You always do this.
Speaker: Yeah, Gottman says 96% of the time, the way a conversation starts determines how it ends. Instead of throwing verbal grenades, start with an I statement and explain how you feel.
Speaker: Example, instead of, you never help her around the house. Try, i feel overwhelmed with chores. Can we figure out a way to split them more evenly? I'm sorry. ah All right, for our first discussion question.
Speaker: Who's guilty? Let's be real. Who here started an argument like an explosion? What happened next? If you had softened the startup, do you think the fight would have ended differently?
Speaker: I can't recall a particular recent fight where I've started out saying you, you, you. I'm sure I have. But after reading this chapter...
Speaker: I have been trying much more intently to one, because he talks about like relating to your partner in the I comment. Like, I know that this is hard or I know that I can struggle with this too, but do you think we could do X, Y, Z instead?
Speaker: So I've been trying to focus on that and that has been a little uncomfortable. So I definitely know that I've been saying probably you statements. But just focusing on trying to do the i and doing that softened approach over the past couple days, because I just read this chapter literally a couple days ago, I can tell that I have some learning and growing to do based on really stopping and and trying to focus on this.
Speaker: Yeah, same for me. After reading these chapters... seems like you need to be more in tune with how you're feeling right in the moment to make it a good constructive argument.
Speaker: But yeah, I'm certainly guilty of of blaming Emily for things to start the argument. And I know she like has started arguments the same way of blaming me. so it's something that we both need to work on.
Speaker: But I think for me, one way that I could work on it is if she is dealing with any kind of any kind of problem, my brain immediately goes to figuring out how to solve the problem.
Speaker: So I'll say, you should try this, or you should try this. For example, she's been having some neck and back pain. recently for really no apparent reason might be stressed might be our mattress might be her pillow but I just immediately try to go to solving the problem like you should try this instead of maybe I should be listening and trying to figure out how she's feeling first if that makes sense
Speaker: Totally. I just texted Sarah today and i was like, do you think i have a good balance of like listening to you versus trying to provide advice?
Speaker: She's like, thank you for asking that. You like you do a decent job of that. But she's like, whenever you do provide advice, I know it's because you're trying to help and because you like because you love me.
Speaker: So that's helpful. I mean, that was like helpful for sure. But yeah, I think it's a struggle for probably all of us to want to like immediately provide advice when we're supposed to just like listen and hear how they feel and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. We actually came up with a code word for if one of us is feeling overwhelmed in a conflict. And we're going to try that out.
Speaker: But it's pineapple. So if like when if I feel like physiologically overwhelmed and I'm like, for sure not. Like if I want retreat, it's like pineapple and then. like Okay, yeah.
Speaker: I'm feeling overwhelmed, so there's probably not going to be a good result coming from this right now. So then we'll pause. um But we're going to try that out and see what happens. Let us know how it goes.
Speaker: Let you know how pineapple goes. yep Does it belong on pizza or no? I say no, but it can be. I'm not totally against it.
Speaker: I say yes. and Moving on to step two, make and accept repair attempts. A repair attempt is when one person tries to lower the tension Whether it's a joke, a peace offering, or saying, that's not what I meant.
Speaker: But here's the catch. If your ego is in the way, you won't recognize it. For example, your mid-argument and your partner reaches for your hand. That's a peace offering. If you pull away, congrats, you just escalated the war.
Speaker: Discussion question number two. Think about your last argument. Did either of you try to throw out a repair attempt? Does it work? Or did the other person ignore it? How would your relationship change if you got better at catching those peace offerings?
Speaker: Well, first off, I really like that you describe a marital conflict as a war being escalated. that really paints the picture. Yeah. Does that do it for you? Yeah.
Speaker: I think I should use that term more when we're fighting. Like, oh, you want to escalate this into a war?
Speaker: You might win the battle, but I'm gonna win the war. In like 60 years, we're gonna see who won most of the battles. and We'll tally them all up.
Speaker: Yeah. I ignored a repair attempt over the weekend. I'm not gonna lie. Definitely did. i knew it. So what was repair attempt? Intentionally you did? Uh-huh, yeah, because I just was retreating. give us You lost the war, so you had to retreat.
Speaker: yeah For sure, yeah. What was the battles the repair attempt, and then why did you not? It was just ah stupid. We were in the car. I misread a signal, so then I got out, and I was upset, so then I took off in my car, which we were going to go separate ways anyway. I'm not stating a lot of context, but...
Speaker: She called and said to turn around that we could figure it out in person because we're good at figuring things out in person. And I was just like, you know, already kind of in my physiological. Pineapple.
Speaker: Pineapple. I needed pineapple then. um But I just kept driving. The repair attempt was her trying to get me to turn around and come back and like, let's figure it out. And I just ignored it.
Speaker: Yeah. And so that escalated that escalated it I mean, it could have been solved right there. But yeah, stupid. Lesson learned.
Speaker: Catching the repair attempt and then accepting the repair attempt would obviously be ideal. I feel like this particular action works if both people do it consistently and it's not always one-sided, right? Because I feel like I've been in places where it's like,
Speaker: One person's in a particular spot for a while, maybe in a season of life where they don't have the capacity to try to like repair every situation or the other person maybe is in the same situation.
Speaker: And it's like, if you try to feel like you're always the one throwing out repair attempts, it gets tiring, right? So feel like as a couple, you kind of have to both share that in a sense. Yeah, I feel like I've gotten really good at the, what is what you said? the That's not what I meant.
Speaker: I feel like more it's, I'm trying to communicate something. It's not landing. and I'm realizing that it's not landing. And therefore I say, oh, well, that's not what I meant. What I meant to say was this.
Speaker: And I feel like it's me trying to re-communicate my statements better or my feelings better. The classic one is when you say something that's slightly offensive and you say, it was just a joke.
Speaker: but Yeah, we talked about that one, didn't we? But that's like way after the fact. Yeah, geez, calm down. It was just a joke. Right? That's like the weakest cover-up that everybody sees through every single time.
Speaker: But I did really appreciate the getting the message through. he gave like, what, 15, 14 things of ways to say, like, I feel X or I need to calm down or sorry.
Speaker: I like the one, sorry, number five. Tell me what you hear me saying. I highlighted that one just because, i don't know, I feel like when you get into your feelings and you're communicating something, what you might think you're saying is something totally different than maybe what your partner's hearing.
Speaker: Like maybe quite literally or the perception or the interpretation of it. So I found that one good and we highlighted that for, you know,
Speaker: each other to use. What I think you're saying is blah, blah. blah And then once you confirm that or reestablish what the person's saying, then I feel like you can better tackle the situation at hand.
Speaker: I don't know if you guys can relate. Yeah, that in the moment, it's hard to be that logical sometimes. You know what I feel like this particular question reminds me of is the age old question that men get asked all the time and always answer wrong, which is like, what do you think looks better for tonight? Or what what should I wear tonight? Or do you think these look good?
Speaker: And it's like, no matter how you answer that, You might be stepping in like a a pit of snakes. And if if they get mad, you don't want to throw out a repair attempt because it's like you asked for this.
Speaker: I just answered your question, honestly, and you you were in the type of mood that I couldn't tell whether it was you wanted the the truth or you just wanted to like make the decision and go out and whatever I said, like it was fine. you know But in those moments, it's hard to throw out a repair attempt because you feel like it was a setup from the get-go.
Speaker: you know Yeah, that's why we typically don't leave the house, you know? you You just go back and forth about what to wear for like an hour until it's it too late, and you're just like, all right, let's go to bed, I guess.
Speaker: It happens. All jokes aside, it does. i don't know if I'm good at repair attempts, but I certainly try them.
Speaker: Whenever Emily and I have a big argument, I think both of our love languages is quality time and physical touch. So a lot of times if she is really upset about something, we'll both in bed and she is like turned facing the other way and I'll try to rub her back or something.
Speaker: while we talk about it. And oh sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Like sometimes she'll actually turn around and face me and talk about it.
Speaker: And sometimes she turns around and kicks. Yeah.
Speaker: You don't know. but you don't know until a couple of seconds later. You never know. Depends on how she's feeling. So. No, sorry. Go ahead, Matt. Small gestures like that.
Speaker: Like trying to let her know that I'm here for her. I want to work it out. I want to talk through this and we can get through it together. i I'm here for you. Sometimes it works. Sometimes I don't. Good stuff.
Speaker: That's good. So for step three, I've got men's five-step playbook for handling everyday arguments. Hmm. It is soothing yourself and each other.
Speaker: If your heart rate is climbing, your face is getting hot, and you're debating whether you should flip the table, you need to take a step back. Gottman suggests taking a few deep breaths, pausing, or literally saying, let's take a break and come back to this.
Speaker: Step four is to compromise. Real talk, if you have to win every argument, congrats, you're going to be single. Godman suggests making two lists. What's non-negotiable, so core values or big priorities, and then what's flexible, things you can give a little on.
Speaker: Step five is to address emotional baggage. Ever had a tiny argument that somehow turned into a full-blown fight about every past mistake ever made? That's because some arguments aren't really about what you're arguing about.
Speaker: For example, a fight about dishes is not really about dishes. It might be about feeling unappreciated. If a fight feels way bigger than it should be, ask yourself, what's really underneath this?
Speaker: And then moving on to the next chapter, which is coping with typical solvable problems. Let's talk about applying this to real life stuff. Money, chores, sex, parenting, in-laws, and yeah, porn, because we're going to go there today.
Speaker: So for money, money fights are not really about money. They're about control, security, or freedom. For example, one person sees money as security. The other sees it as opportunity.
Speaker: Boom, instant tension. Question number three. In relationships, there's always a saver and a spender. Which one are you? And do you think that's ever caused arguments?
Speaker: Yeah. I have been the saver. No.
Speaker: oh You're probably the most frugal one of all of us. So I'm not surprised. Yeah. But here's the thing though, is I've had to unlearn a lot of that more recently or not necessarily unlearn.
Speaker: Just recognize that now is the time for the spending. And this is the these are the moments for why I have saved. right like We know are eight months into a house.
Speaker: We've obviously done some improvements to it along the way. right The down payment was a good chunk of savings that we had to say goodbye to. We've had some higher expenses as of recently with like our car, both of our cars, our house, medical things, et cetera. And so we have been spending more.
Speaker: And so, I mean, we're totally ready to do that. But even like tonight, right, we're discussing, okay, what future things are priority for us? Do we want to invest in the yard? Do we want to invest in gardening? Do we want to invest in kitchen improvements, whether that be appliances or bench seating or whatever, right? So tonight, oh, it was okay.
Speaker: we've We've spent a lot of money recently, more more than maybe we would have liked to with some of the car things. but we do want to invest. And so it's just that level of what takes priority, what is necessary, when do we spend, but also recognizing you know, for me that, Hey, this is year one into the house.
Speaker: There's going to be a lot of things that we're going to do initial investment in that are going to kind of hit all at once. And so that's a lot to stomach right out the gate when you've kind of put a lot into the house already put a lot of the things, but I continue to tell Marianne, it's like, Hey, hopefully we're just investing into our cars, into, you the house for for years to come so that we can really make do with what we have so that we can extend the longevity of of the things that we do own.
Speaker: It's been a tricky balance of just not the verbiage I used tonight was like not wanting to get over and over our heads with things, but also recognize that we've saved for a reason.
Speaker: and we need to continue to save for a reason. But how do we balance just the investment component versus kind of the extreme of, well, let's just spend to spend, which isn't necessarily what I would categorize us as?
Speaker: Yeah. Brooke's been really good with helping me just evaluate the purposes that money can serve. I'm more of the s saver, but Brooke is not a big spender herself, but I've really grown to appreciate her perspective when it does come to things like vacation.
Speaker: Sometimes I can really try to find a more cost-effective method for travel or where to stay. And she's just helped me think through, we can save and save and save, and there's values in investing and things like that. But There's also the present and there's memories to be made, things like that. I had a good story example and it is escaping me now, but our marriage has had a lot of problems.
Speaker: Money actually has been one that has never been an issue, almost ever. um Back when we were on missionary salaries to today, it's just, we've had pretty similar mindsets and for all the challenges that we've gone through finances actually have not been one.
Speaker: I mean, i kind of had similar stuff as what you guys talked about. I'm generally pretty conservative um with money. And luckily, I really like learning about all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So I think that gives Camille a lot of confidence to just let me do my thing with with our finances. But I will say it has taken me a while to get to the point to where I understand like there's there's a purpose that money can serve that's very practical. And then there's a perfect purpose that money can serve that's related to kind of living the life that you aspire to and and accomplishing the thing the things that you aspire to even if to some people that might seem a little bit um unnecessary right like you can always do something cheaper you can always go on a vacation and cut some cost here and there and eventually you get to the point to where you're like well
Speaker: why am I even going to go on vacation or why am I even going to try and fix this thing in my house or do a, you know, renovation or something is because at a certain point you just need to do what you, you want to do.
Speaker: Right. So I think finding that balance has been something that has been tough to justify. Right. But over the last couple of years we've traveled more and I feel like it's been really cool being okay, letting some of that go.
Speaker: ah And, and as a couple kind of like discussing how to think about it instead of feeling guilty to spend money on memories that will last a lifetime or experiences that will affect you both together. I'm celebrating that, you know, that's good.
Speaker: Actually, I have a question on the money topic. Do you all share a singular bank account in your marriages or do you all manage your income and stuff separately.
Speaker: Singular. We have both. on Emily and I share everything. It's just one. Singular. Account. Yeah. You said you have both, Thomas? Yeah. In what way? We have a joint account that almost everything has.
Speaker: happens in. Yeah. And then we have separate accounts that we already had had in our names before we got married, but we kept that don't do a whole lot. And they're, they're actually captured.
Speaker: We can both see everything in our, it's like a service that basically consolidates and analyzes all of your accounts. So we have that, that, that syncs up to all of our accounts and we can both see each other's accounts, but they're not necessarily in both of our names just because it wasn't,
Speaker: a necessary step that we needed to take because they're both kind of like just small checking accounts we don't really do much with. So functionally, it's all together. Yeah. I mean, it's... it Yeah. I guess there there has been a point at which Camille's been like, man, I can't surprise you with anything because you can check on whatever I spend on all these accounts, which, you know, from time to time, it is kind of like, oh, man, I guess I better go pay cash for this thing or whatever if I want to surprise you.
Speaker: So and so, right? So sometimes that is ah kind of like tricky if you can see each other's accounts. But yeah for all intents and purposes, it's basically, you know, all stuff that it's not like because some people have issues in their marriage with somebody being in debt and never telling the other one. And and all of a sudden it's like a big issue. But yeah for us, it's that hasn't been like a concern, I guess, for either of us.
Speaker: Yeah, I didn't know that couples didn't share bank accounts. it I didn't know it was not a given that they did that and until about seven or eight years ago. I had a coworker.
Speaker: We went to lunch and I Venmoed him. And i so you know how you can see people's Venmo history? Yeah, yeah. saw that his girlfriend had Venmoed him for dinner.
Speaker: And I asked him about it almost like jokingly. His girlfriend? What? His girlfriend or his wife? His girlfriend, but they live together. Okay. And they literally split dinner.
Speaker: And i it was like I couldn't comprehend. And the more I've learned, I've learned it's not just a, that's not a given. my I grew up, I didn't even know that people didn't do that, didn't share accounts.
Speaker: So I've learned that it's not automatic. And I've had Friends tell me about their parents who they were grown up, like would describe themselves Christians. And it caused huge marital conflict because especially I don't know what you call more traditional American marriages.
Speaker: ah mom stayed at home, then it could be a power play ah with the husband. Or if they both did work, I've heard stories where, hey, I'll pay the mortgage.
Speaker: You pay childcare. And it is like a literal fighting point because if things rubber mitt meets the road, one spouse can use the argument of I pay for more bills than you do.
Speaker: And i I was never raised that way. We've never done that. We just view each other's money as ours. and I just don't assume anymore that people do that because I've heard that in the faith and outside of the Christian faith couples that don't share accounts and don't share their money and split things and whatnot. So i was curious.
Speaker: Yeah, and I could understand a little bit more on a boyfriend and girlfriend situation like you were initially saying. But yeah, I know of a couple married people that Venmo each other and that's just, it's weird.
Speaker: I could never, it'd just be so weird waiting for like your spouse, like, yo, why haven't you Venmo'd me for the rent yet? Like, what? It's so awkward.
Speaker: Like, it just doesn't create a we... mentality. and There was a really special moment, I'd say. So I'm very pro sharing bank accounts um and viewing money as ours. And there was a really special moment, I would say, the first probably two years of our marriage. one we were talking about engagement rings earlier, Thomas, before you joined and how much we had spent on ours.
Speaker: And I don't remember the exact amount of mine was, but all I know is I literally used up my entire savings account. I did not have a lot in savings and it was not like it was a super expensive ring it.
Speaker: I think it was under $5,000. So I just, I just did not have a lot of savings. And I remember after I said paid for it, I had less than a thousand dollars in my name.
Speaker: So I like to say emptied the bank account for my wife or whatever, but ah year and a half in our marriage, I decided to go back to school and I don't have any money.
Speaker: And I didn't, I wasn't really interested in taking loans and she had a bunch of savings. And even though I had said, yeah, you know, what's yours is mine. Mine is yours.
Speaker: Some of it, I still kind of felt like, oh, that was money before you were married to me. And she's like, no, like use it for your school. And that was really formative for me of really seeing her not just say what's mine is yours and yours is mine, but living it out and That made a huge mark in terms of truly viewing your salary as our salary, my salary, you know making decisions together. My savings is yours and your success is my success. And I think that's only for the only for the benefit in marriage, because money is one of the top two or three reasons of marital issues and divorce. So having a shared mindset, I think, is critical.
Speaker: Yeah, money's a big deal. And I think there might always be one party, unless both parties have really similar careers and incomes that feels maybe almost guilty or worried that they're like, oh, we're using a lot of the other person's money to do things, even though the other person might have no issue with it whatsoever, because they have that sort of mindset of, you know, what's mine is yours.
Speaker: Yeah. I could see how that'd be really common.
Speaker: Yeah, ah my wife knows pretty much everything about our finances. She has no idea the value of all the Pokemon cards I have.
Speaker: That's my ace in the hole if I ever get in trouble.
Speaker: Sell the Charizard. it first edition? No, I'm just kidding. I don't have that. No one rob me, please. No Just put on the Iron Man suit.
Speaker: I have nothing. Housework, Flez. Housework. um Ever had someone say, just tell me what to do? That's a trap. Don't fall for it. Housework fights are really about fairness and feeling appreciated.
Speaker: If one person feels like they're doing all the work, resentment builds and fast. Sex and pornography. All right, let's talk about porn. Gottman found that porn use...
Speaker: Often leads to secrecy, unrealistic expectations, and emotional disconnection. A lot of people use porn to cope with stress, boredom, or emotional distance, but it usually makes things worse.
Speaker: The fix? Honest conversations, no shame, and no defensiveness. Next question. Porn is a massive relationship issue, but people avoid talking about it.
Speaker: Why do you think that is? Do you think it's more about secrecy, shame or unrealistic expectations? Zinger. So, I mean, I think we've all kind of shared that we've had like good conversations with like spiritual groups around this topic, right?
Speaker: I know, I think Garrett, you have. and know Stalen has. I have. I feel like this is the topic that is probably the most talked about amongst men groups, at least that i'm I've been around.
Speaker: You go and ask a Catholic priest what the sin he probably hears the most is from... um you know different groups and it's probably looking at porn, masturbation.
Speaker: And even with the teens that I volunteer with, that's one of the things that I hear the most about. um So I think there's definitely ah awareness and I think the shame component is real to where it's felt.
Speaker: But I think people really want to break through the bondage that it has on them more than they do of suppressing it. Because at least I feel like they've suppressed it for so long that they are really ready to talk about it and air it out and be done with it.
Speaker: Uh, obviously it's harder to be done with it because of how addictive it is. But, um, Yeah, I don't know. And I think I was talking specifically between a married relationship talking about it.
Speaker: Was that the intent of your question, Flus? You say people avoid talking about You mean people avoid talking about it in general or with their spouse? Yeah, with their spouse, for sure. Matt, what do you think about this? It's a tough question.
Speaker: I just know... Personally, having those shortcomings with looking at pornography has severely affected my relationship with Emily in a negative way.
Speaker: So no matter where you're coming from, if you're in a marriage or committed a committed relationship with values that reflect the Christian life, pornography is going to affect your relationship in a negative way.
Speaker: From the standpoint of just me personally, yeah, I feel shame. I feel the guilt. I feel like I can't talk about it because i feel like I need to be a better person.
Speaker: And at times I just can't control my urges, even though I know I should. And that makes me feel like a terrible person. And then on Emily's side, it feels like to her that I'm breaking the vows that I made on our marriage day.
Speaker: And it feels like she's not wanted. It feels like I'm she feels like I am putting someone else in front of her. So regardless of all the nuances If you're in this type of relationship or marriage, it's going to hurt.
Speaker: And it's going to take a lot of talking through it, using the principles in this book of now not trying not to blame the other person, but come to a point of understanding for both sides.
Speaker: And it's going to be a long conversation. I'm not saying that Emily and I have found the solution, that we're 100% past everything at all. It's a conversation that she needs to understand.
Speaker: I've struggled with this since I was, I don't know, 11, 12 years old. And it's something that she's never had to deal with. So trying to understand from her perspective,
Speaker: how someone can be doing this like 20 plus years, she just doesn't understand. How can you understand? On the flip side, how can I, who has been struggling with something like this for 20 plus years, how can I understand her perspective when she's never had that problem at all?
Speaker: So it takes a lot of conversation and civil conversation and with the mindset that We're trying to understand each other so that we can move forward together.
Speaker: And that's, it's really hard to explain that. So it's, it's a long ongoing conversation. I don't know if that answers the question, yeah any of those questions, but. That's good. It's good.
Speaker: I am grateful that this is not an issue for me. And only time where it was, was right after my divorce. And I think I thought that it might help me move on.
Speaker: You know, like looking at that might help me move on from that. And obviously it didn't. But definitely became a habit that I had to break for sure.
Speaker: um I can somewhat relate. I can't relate to being addicted to it for a long time. But I definitely had to put roadblocks into place for a while to kind of get rid of the habit.
Speaker: And yeah, I think it negatively impacted my ability to have a relationship, like to get back out into dating and talk to women and have actual conversations. And I think what helped me and was thinking about it in terms of what it does to your brain, you know, just completely destroys dopamine.
Speaker: So for me, as someone who's like, I would consider myself, this is douchey, but like a high performing person, like I have a hard job. I like to be very disciplined and I like to get stuff done. And well, doing that literally hinders that almost like when you do that once and your dopamine shot, your motivation goes out the window for a lot of things.
Speaker: So it's not just like negatively impacting one aspect of life. It's impacting so many different areas, you know? So for me, having that realization,
Speaker: made my motivation of stopping the habit much easier. um this has been years ago, but the other benefit is that Sarah and I are both very strong willed and like to get things out there.
Speaker: so we've already talked about this and thankfully it's not an issue for either of us. I think that if I did look at porn, I think that it would hurt her for sure.
Speaker: don't think that would help by any means. um But I do feel safe to where if I did, i do feel safe enough to tell her at this point, which is good. It's a good place to be in um Thankfully, I don't have to be there because I don't have don't struggle with it. But don't know, working on getting to a point where you feel safe to share something difficult like that, I think it is for sure.
Speaker: Important. Yeah, I've definitely found again, i think what you were saying, Flez, I, I, I did not take what you were saying earlier as relativism, but understanding your partner and her needs for Brooke, what she's communicated is she wants me initiating conversations if I'm struggling.
Speaker: And what I've found is even if it's on a scale, So just bear with me and put in an air quotes, even if it's something minor. If I'm sharing that minor thing, it can hurt her for a moment.
Speaker: But the hurt will be way worse if I didn't say anything and then let it prolong. Because in the past, it's like, oh, I got away with it. And then she either finds out on her own or she asks or something progresses to something worse.
Speaker: And then that, you know, so it's like it's like if you can just I don't know what a good analogy is. Trim the weed before it overgrows the whole garden. It's still painful to cut it, but it's going to be way more painful if you let that grow.
Speaker: That's something I've been learning in the last year and a half. that proactivity and being the one that can initiate the confession. Yeah. I think that's great, Garrett. and Just to clarify, my whole relativism comment was, I thought was maybe what you were saying was, well, it's whatever your spouse is okay with.
Speaker: Like if your spouse is okay with porn, then it's okay. Right. Like that's relativism because porn is not okay. Right. I think more what I meant. You're here advocating for it.
Speaker: No, more what I meant was for sure if she's not okay with it, then it's like for sure should be like a goal to not be doing it. you know like yeah Yeah. Anyway.
Speaker: But no, I mean, Garrett, Matt, I know you guys shared deeply there. I appreciate you guys sharing that, Matt. I mean, you know, it's ah that's a cross I carried for 15 years of my life too, you know.
Speaker: It takes hold, man. And... you know Obviously, this book is for maybe more marriage relationships, but even if you're not in a relationship, right how do you try to overcome it right so that it's not a problem but in whatever stage of your relationship? but Thanks for sharing, guys. I appreciated all that.
Speaker: Yeah, man. Yeah. one One other thing we didn't ask about it, but you, you recapped earlier, Flez under 0.5 about addressing emotional baggage.
Speaker: What's really underneath this. Another book that is specific on this topic, it's called unwanted and it's a play on like a double entendre. i think was the term where it addresses unwanted sexual behavior.
Speaker: And unwanted sexual behavior typically is a result of feeling unwanted. And he just kind of dives into like what is going on underneath. And that's typically a big thing with it is when we're making those decisions, when we're clicking on those videos or whatever, there's something deeper going on or something isn't being filled or there's something about our identity of Whether it's in our own marriage, maybe we don't feel good enough or desired enough or wanted enough and porn can help you feel that way. Or maybe it's not feeling fulfilled enough in work or as a father or contributor to society, society whatever it is.
Speaker: There's things going underneath that going on underneath that are driving us to something to cope. And porn can be a very false thing.
Speaker: sense of a coping mechanism. It's good. There's also the thing that I think about too, when we're talking about motivation and Fuzz, I think you can fully appreciate this because you know more about it than any of us, but there's also the factor of How much of the actual behavior stems from biological, almost uncontrollable ah chemical reaction that occurs in men's bodies during certain situations versus, oh, my motivation or my like my thought process or like my guardrails, like Garrett was saying.
Speaker: That's the whole question that a lot of times I feel like is super gray and it's a super person to person type answer. You know what i mean? Because that is a powerful thing throughout every man's life.
Speaker: Yeah. I think that's the big aspect of it is somehow trying to control the physiology of it. Like exercise is a good outlet. Cold exposure is a good outlet. There's some, a lot of good outlets that change your body's physiology.
Speaker: It could help. So for sure, one aspect of it. I mean, we talked about how all the social media industries continue to keep and grab people's attention, advertising.
Speaker: Every algorithm out there, if they realize that you're a male who is heterosexual is going to try to use that against you, a sense, that part of your brain to keep your attention glued to whatever it is they want you look at.
Speaker: So I got to pull the plug, man. So that I feel like that's a great, I mean, that's a great decision. Really. I'm kind of considering it myself. Do We can start our own social media.
Speaker: Doesn't have any of that on there. What's it going to be called? Nothing good. So some things we learned today. Some fights are solvable. Some aren't. Knowing the difference is key.
Speaker: How you start a fight matters. Softening in the startup can change everything. Catching repair attempts can stop a fight from spiraling out of control. Money, housework, sex, parenting, and in-laws are some of the most common conflicts. Handling them right can make or break a relationship.
Speaker: Challenge for the weak. Try softening the startup next time you argue. Pay attention to repair attempts. Are you ignoring them or recognizing them? Next time, we're diving into principle six, overcome gridlock.
Speaker: How to handle those deep-seated, never-ending disagreements. Follow us on Instagram at BooksBrothersPodcast and tell us your thoughts. Thanks for tuning in to the Books Brothers Podcast.
Speaker: Until next time, keep reading, keep reflecting, keep connecting. We'll catch you on the flip side.
