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Episode 57 - Turn Toward Each Other Instead of Away (Principle 3)
29 Plays15 days ago
Robb leads discussion of Principle 3: “Turn Toward Each Other Instead of Away” from The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, PhD.
(1:55) - “The One Thing”
(2:30) - “They Don’t Make ‘Em Like They Used To” - Best 90s TV Shows
Principle 3 Discussion - “Turn Toward Each Other Instead of Away”
(8:25) - How have you ever caught yourself thinking hatt taking a vacation is the key to improving your marriage, instead of focusing on everyday connections? Why do we tend to glorify vacation instead of the beauty of everyday life?
(18:30) - Guys share recent examples in their relationship where they have not turned toward their partner
(31:07) - How do you see stress-reducing conversations play out today with your spouse? Are there any steps in stress reducing that you consistently succeed or fail at?
Next week, we’ll discuss Principle 4: “Let Your Partner Influence You” and chapter 8: “The Two Kinds of Marital Conflict” (pgs. 115-159).
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Until next week, read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Books Brothers Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome back to the Books Brothers Podcast, podcast where longtime friends spread across the country reconnect through the pages of good book.
00:00:20
Speaker
Whether you're a big reader or a little reader, Or just enjoy listening in on our discussion. Join us as we explore insightful topics and narratives while connecting each week.
Meet the Hosts: Rob, Adam, Flez, and Garrett
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm Rob. I'm Adam. I'm Flez. And I'm Garrett. And now a word from our
Humorous Dishwasher Ad
00:00:38
Speaker
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00:00:44
Speaker
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00:00:57
Speaker
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00:01:09
Speaker
That's amazing. What do you do when they're both dirty? What's the solution there? You get a third. You get a I remember, ah I think it was...
The Clean/Dirty Dish Indicator Story
00:01:20
Speaker
Ruth's junior year and at Missouri state.
00:01:24
Speaker
Um, her, it just makes me think of this every time I think of like clean, dirty dishes and stuff, but they had a, uh, their dishwasher. They had like this Jesus magnet. And if the Jesus magnet was on the dishwasher, it meant that it was clean.
00:01:38
Speaker
And then it's really funny. i on there it was was dirty If what was on it, the devil one, the devil, that would have been, that would have that would have made sense.
00:01:49
Speaker
You dirty dish.
Responding to Emotional Bids in Marriage
00:01:52
Speaker
All right. The one thing. So the third principle, turn toward each other instead of away, emphasizes the importance of responding positively to a partner's emotional bids for attention, affection, or support.
00:02:06
Speaker
How or rather whether we respond to emotional bids can play a significant role in determining the outcome of our marriage. In the love lab, couples who stayed married responded to bids 86% of the time, while those who divorced responded only 33% of the time.
00:02:23
Speaker
So this stuff really matters. Let's get into
Nostalgic Dive into 90s TV Shows
00:02:27
Speaker
it. But first for our next segment, they don't make them like they used to. We are going to dive into the ninety s were the golden age for the best TV shows and cartoons.
00:02:40
Speaker
Here are some standouts that you were sure to enjoy. Rugrats, Hey Arnold, The Simpsons, Pokemon, Friends, Full House, Saved by the Bell, and Home Improvement.
00:02:52
Speaker
What were some of your guys' favorites? I think I mentioned it. you you know You mentioned Saved by the Bell, and I think I talked about it last week because... You know, I think some things have such a time and a place you think about.
00:03:04
Speaker
And i only ever remember watching Say by the Bell before school. And I think it was like specifically like late elementary school and then middle school. And so it's just kind of funny think of that memory of that.
00:03:15
Speaker
One that um I would say was probably an all-time favorite of mine was Boy Meets World. And um interestingly, ah Ruth and i probably in like 2020, 2021, you know, like during like the COVID time when you were like,
00:03:31
Speaker
watching way more movies or TV shows and stuff, right? Yep. So we we went back and watched it. She had never watched it. And so we went back and watched Boy Meets World. And I would say, I would say it still holds up.
00:03:42
Speaker
um I think it's like funny to think about now. And there was one thing that we noticed in that, but also in, we rewatched um Monk. I don't know if that was nineties. That might have been early 2000s. Boy Meets World's the one with the, the, um what was it? The kid, Matthew's kids.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, but Ben Savage, I think, was the actor. Yeah, yeah was Corey Matthews and Topanga Lawrence and Eric and Feeney. Feeney was the big one. Mr. Feeney. The guy who somehow taught them from like third grade all the way through college, I think. I don't know how that works. Promotion as the kid. seriously Hey, you're getting promoted to fourth grade next year. But so one thing with watching that and then also with watching Monk that you just never see in TV anymore was ah kind of a similar trend of in Boy Meets World.
00:04:35
Speaker
One of the actors changed like it was the same person, but they had a different actor playing him in a different season. But it was still the same name and everything. And then the same thing was somewhat true with Monk because we went back and watched that too during that time period.
00:04:51
Speaker
And with Monk, ah you you know, it was a super long running show. It was like these like 30 episode seasons. and There was probably like 10 seasons. and some of the like villains come like come back as a different person. So the same actor, but playing a different person and and vice versa where they had like someone was supposed to be this person, but a different actor in the next season.
00:05:13
Speaker
So you never see that anymore in like the era of streaming. But back then where it was like, oh, we're not going to run a rerun for a couple of years. It's like you could probably get away with it.
TV Shows' Casting Changes and Streaming Era
00:05:22
Speaker
fla what about You were a big friends guy, weren't you?
00:05:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I've seen each episode at least 10 times, I would say. 10 times? Yeah, no, I'm not kidding either. yeah How many seasons were there? How many episodes were there? There's 10 seasons.
00:05:39
Speaker
10 might be exaggerated a little bit. At least like 15. yeah hurt Yeah, I'm probably like that with The Office. Like I've watched The Office through probably five times now. You know, I actually now present time, i like The Office more than Friends, but I just have happened to have seen Friends more than The Office for sure.
00:05:55
Speaker
But I always felt too too young for it. But I mean, i think it makes sense. You've got the older siblings. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. year older brother and 15 year older sister. But what about That 70s Show? And did you guys watch Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?
00:06:12
Speaker
That was a good one, too. That was a good one. Oh, yeah. I just looked. There were 236 episodes. you've seen That's so much. 3,600 episodes.
00:06:24
Speaker
Easily. No, 2300. 23,000. I didn't have cable in college. So, you know, i think another one another good one I think about is all that.
00:06:36
Speaker
It was like SNL for kids. It was just great. What about even Stevens? ah get this i think know i watched it but at the same time though it's like none of the characters were really likable yeah because like shia labeouf was just like a little punk in the show and it's like yeah his sister was like obviously super cute but she was like made like a major nerd she was we all we all knew it what was her name i don't know we can't forget about We can't forget about a couple.
00:07:07
Speaker
South Park. Yeah. Classic. then a different angle here is the Magic School Bus. Oh. Yeah. Just like, you know, the world would not be the same.
00:07:18
Speaker
Well, and i you know, I think a Magic School Bus, that brings back a little bit more nostalgia from the component of the teacher wheeling in the TV and you're going to watch the Magic School Bus something else. But like the TV on the cart concept. Yeah. like Right. It's kind of funny to think about now. It's hilarious.
00:07:34
Speaker
You got to love home improvement, though, with the ah the neighbor. You never got to see his mouth yeah you know until like the last episode. Well, ah um that's like old school. what a Oh, he was in the last episode. I didn't know that.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, he finally came out and you got to see his mouth, I think. I mean, that's like kind of like Charlie Brown-esque where like you never see the parents. You know what's one show I never really, my dad watched it I watched a couple episodes here and there, but it's like the one of the more famous ones is Seinfeld.
00:08:04
Speaker
I never really got into that. I never got into that. like too early. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a little too early for us. Yeah. yeah Yeah. i I think it's on something though. I feel like i should i feel like we should go try to watch it and see how it is.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, I wonder how some of those ones hold up. All right, good stuff. Walk down memory lane, boys.
Everyday Moments vs. Vacations in Relationships
00:08:23
Speaker
All right, so we'll jump into the third principle of the seven principles of making marriage work by John Gottman. This one is... turned towards each other instead of a way And this one, like I said, focuses on emotional bids.
00:08:40
Speaker
ah So emotional bids are attempts made by one person to seek attention, connection, or emotional support from another. These bids can be verbal or nonverbal and may include things like sharing something personal, asking a question, or even making a playful gesture.
00:08:57
Speaker
Turning towards a partner means encouraging and respond to responding to these bids with attentiveness and care. So turning towards each other refers to responding with interest, care, or empathy.
00:09:09
Speaker
But turning away happens when a person ignores, dismisses, or responds negatively to their partner's bids. Consistently turning towards some to turning towards your partner strengthens the emotional bond in a relationship.
00:09:24
Speaker
And then, you know, the really the importance is on small moments. So small everyday moments of connection can make a big difference in a long term satisfaction, right? Like if you're not consistently responding to your partner's emotional bids.
00:09:40
Speaker
um It doesn't really allow for that intimacy or connection or friendship to really grow. And that Gottman also shows that a five to one ratio of positive to negative interaction predicts a strong, happy marriage.
00:09:55
Speaker
um And we should avoid the four horsemen as well. So turning away from your partner can lead to criticism, content, defensiveness and stonewalling um the four horsemen that predict divorce. So it is important to be mindful of turning towards each other to help avoid these destructive hat patterns.
00:10:15
Speaker
So getting into some of the questions here on page 89, I found this quote very um relatable or just interesting.
00:10:27
Speaker
So the first step in turning toward each other is simply to be aware of how crucial these many moments are, not only to your marriage's trust level, but to its ongoing sense of romance.
00:10:38
Speaker
For many couples, just realizing that they shouldn't take their everyday interactions for granted makes an enormous difference in their relationship. Remind yourself that being helpful to each other will do far more for the strength and passion of your marriage than a two-week Bahamas vacation.
00:10:55
Speaker
Vacation. So my question is, have you ever caught yourself thinking that a vacation is the key to improving your relationship or marriage instead of focusing on how to strengthen everyday connection?
00:11:08
Speaker
Why do we tend to glorify vacation life over the beauty of every day? life. think that a vacation just gives you time to pause. So you think that, you know you're going to have a vacation, going have time to pause and be more present with each other.
00:11:21
Speaker
so I feel like that's kind of, i feel like it would be easy to have that thought, but obviously it's best to have intentional practices of pausing and everyday life because we don't always get vacations. If we're just waiting waiting for a vacation, then does that mean we're going to only give our partner attention once or twice a year. so yeah, i mean, it's definitely should place importance on the everyday aspect of pausing and, you know, placing attention on the other person. So,
Balancing Career and Family Life
00:11:51
Speaker
yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good question, Rob. I, I definitely fall into this category. Um, and, and, and the thought that once Ruth and i get out, get away, um, things will be better, can go better. I don't, I don't feel like, I think maybe in the past there's been times where I've perhaps viewed it as a, as a crutch of sorts. Um,
00:12:13
Speaker
But I think generally speaking, um my thought comes from a place of I, as what like Adam is saying, is it's a more intentional time to kind of pause and get away.
00:12:24
Speaker
And to clarify, too, when i'm when I when I refer to like vacations, What I'm thinking of is like a weekend camping trip or ah day trip up to like Sedona or ah Flagstaff or um something where we're spending time outside.
00:12:38
Speaker
But, you know, again, as Adam, as you mentioned, really what I'm what it is, is that intentionality. And I think. I've always kind of had an issue with like being in the moment. I always am more of someone who I get really excited about what the future is.
00:12:52
Speaker
And then when the moment actually comes that I've been looking forward to, I'm like thinking about like, Oh, is this fun? Are you enjoying this? Is this what you want it to be? yeah, I think combating that has been always challenging, but I think especially now that we have, you know, a daughter and, you know, life circumstances are changing. You know, Ruth is um now ah a full-time state-of-home mom.
00:13:15
Speaker
And i think some of these things, it's like, I've just felt my my ability to attend to things is has gotten worse in the last year or two. and I've tried to combat that.
00:13:28
Speaker
And one thing I've tried to do is making a goal to have one intentional like family time in the week. And it doesn't mean like I'm not spending other time with my family, but like one, like, hey, we're going to go...
00:13:41
Speaker
do this specific outing or this specific activity. And I think that has been helpful because again, it's like really it's I know this is a me problem where I can't again, as you mentioned, Adam, be intentional and kind of be in a moment. Why do you think it's been the more of a struggle over last year?
00:13:57
Speaker
I think probably like, and you and I have chatted about this some, where I think I feel a little more pressure when it comes to like my role in supporting the family.
00:14:08
Speaker
um You know, we've all talked about, you know, the age of your 30s for guys being an era where we get it's hard not to get really career focused. And i remember like on a, it was like on, um, art of manliness one time he talked about how like the thirties for men tends to be their most like sad or depressed time of their life, which I'm like, yep, I see that. Like that's been true of me. Um,
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah. So I think it's that. and then it's also, you know, with Daphne now, like, I think like learning how to learning how to be intentional in a different way and kind of understanding the concepts of what being a good father looks like.
00:14:46
Speaker
But I mean, you hear dads all the time say like, oh, I just really look forward to whenever they're an age where they can do this or they can do this. And like, really, I've thought that I've maybe even said that. But really what you're saying in that is like, or at least for me, it's like, I'm not really good at this stage. I'm excited for the next stage. Not I think I'm better.
00:15:02
Speaker
but and Yeah, I think it's tough. I mean, um yeah, I think it's tough. Have you felt that similarly as I described with work, with your kind of work and career changes over the last couple of years or not as much?
00:15:14
Speaker
As far as being able to stay more present and and being intentional in my days? Yeah. I think that because I place so much attention on like my rituals, yeah you know my rituals are meant to be good at being intentional. you know you're meant to like They're meant to improve that in me, my ability to be intentional.
00:15:37
Speaker
I think that I've been able to maintain it a little bit better than probably most people because Sarah's saying things like, early on in dating, like you, she said like the compliment of, you know, I never bring out my phone when we're hanging out and it feels good that you're like always being attentive whenever we're hanging out.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah. and I don't think I would have been that way a few years ago before I started all of my, know, being more mindful meditation practices and all that kind of stuff and yeah being intentional about it But yeah,
00:16:08
Speaker
It's definitely, you know, moments of greater stress yeah definitely makes it harder for sure and times. But, you know, we're all human. it's ah But I'm not that, you know, as deep into a relationship as you guys are. So we're still in kind of like a honeymoon phase for sure where it's like yeah even if some if like one instance was – lacking attention.
00:16:31
Speaker
i don't know. We haven't even really run into that yet. So yeah, hard to, hard to speak on that aspect of it, but, um, and I don't have kids, so I can't, I can't empathize with that. Yeah. And I think, I think too, it's like, I think all too often. And again, I really don't want to come across as like being complaining. I love having a daughter. It was something we prayed for and hoped for for years, but yeah, it's, it's definitely like,
00:16:55
Speaker
made us have to be more intentional about spending time together yeah so yeah rob what about you in terms of that same question of do you view vacations that way sometimes um not sometimes we haven't i mean we've gone on a couple trips but we haven't been traveling at superton over the past year but we're we're about to get into some travels too but it it's not like oh my gosh i can't wait to like yeah you know grow with you like this is so necessary yeah really excited to spend more time together so we we struggle i think with the falling into the trap of um almost like delaying growth because not delaying growth but like we fall into the trap of you know our schedules sometimes can be like ships in the passing night you know with yeah like i'm going her on throughout the day and then
00:17:51
Speaker
By the time I get home, like my wife is getting ready to go and rehearse and and be in a show. Right. And so it's always like this. Oh, I can't wait until like our schedules align and then we can kind of be more like we can focus more on our marriage. And there's like immense truth to that. Right. Because. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:12
Speaker
There are days where we don't see each other, you know, but 30 minutes. So, like, there's really not a ton of time to, like, physically work on our marriage in those times. But, you know, when we get to the weekend or, like, when we do have, um you know, more time together, it's, like, that crutch of saying, like, oh, I just can't wait until, like, we're both on the same schedule. Like, that's kind of...
00:18:34
Speaker
Out of out of the window at that point, because like at that point we are on the same schedule. So just how do we maximize, um you know, the time that we do have together with the variability in our schedules is something that, you know, we just have to really be super intentional and maximize on. Otherwise,
00:18:53
Speaker
If we were to be like, oh, I can't wait until summer, you know, when or I can't wait until when you're not in a show, then it's like, you know, then you then you miss out on all the opportunities to grow up until that point. Right. And to your point, Stalen, it's like there's so much pressure.
00:19:09
Speaker
on those moments that it's kind of this built up expectations of, oh my gosh, like here we are, you know, like this has got
Humor in Relationship Advice Ad
00:19:18
Speaker
to be perfect. And then, you know, maybe you find yourself fighting or or whatever. And it's just like, you know, you put too much stock into yeah um waiting to grow rather than just growing, you know? Yeah.
00:19:32
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:20:07
Speaker
No need to schedule an appointment. He's always there. And now back to the show. So on page 91, the author mentions two obstacles that can get in the way of turning towards each other. Missing a bid because it's wrapped in anger or other negative emotion such as Why don't you ever load unload the dishwasher when I loaded it?
00:20:29
Speaker
What your spouse is really saying is, could you unload the dishwasher tonight? um So like that, that was wrapped up in like some anger or negative emotion of like, why don't you?
Obstacles in Turning Towards Each Other
00:20:39
Speaker
And then being distracted by the wire, wired world. The author says that the old hiding behind the newspaper is now the equivalent of being on your phone. So the question is, have you encountered any recent situations where either or both of these obstacles prevented you from turning towards each other?
00:20:59
Speaker
mean, I think for for Ruth and i so I mentioned a a bit ago that she's now, she's been in the state home mom thing now for about a month. And she was, it's been a very atypical month.
00:21:13
Speaker
ah She, the first week we had a friend in town and then Daphne got pretty sick and was like sick most of the week with like fevers. And then she had a week where she was fine. And then she got the, she had the flu all last week.
00:21:25
Speaker
And I feel like it's not that we've, And I think at times individually, like been kind of like giving into the wild world. But more recently, it's been both of us like, hey, let's just like, let's just watch TV tonight.
00:21:38
Speaker
Let's watch to show. And it's been out of just like the comfort of it. Like, OK, it's been a tough week, which I think that is OK. And I think I need to be more open to like, hey, using evenings to relax. But I think it's been something where it's like it's gotten For me, I think it's been, you know, a kind of ah we've been using that too much just to kind of veg out as instead of connect when we've had ah pretty challenging couple weeks.
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah. um I think so. One of the things, so today's Ash Wednesday, so it's the start of Lent. So um one of the things that I'm giving up is, or trying to focus on, I'm actually doing one of the exercises from the first principle. It was like the seven week program of,
00:22:21
Speaker
Oh, nice. Um, of fondness and admiration. So yeah, yeah it's like ah sorry, it's like a seven week program. So I started day one today, um,
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, I've just been noticing that I've been missing bids because my wife will be speaking to me and I'm you know wrapped up in, oh I just got home, but I'm finishing up a conversation and or and then I missed out on some texts. So then I'm like tending to those.
00:22:52
Speaker
when she's trying to like welcome me and, and, uh, be received by me when I come in and it's like, I'm, I'm distracted or, you know, I'm not fully present at the dinner table. So I'm really trying to adhere to some of the limits on, um, like my phone and,
00:23:09
Speaker
really being intentional about um you know connection with the time that we do get. um Also, you know there have been bids around, for example, Marianne's like least one of her least favorite things to do when she wakes up on a weekend is come downstairs and see dishes in the sink, right?
00:23:30
Speaker
Especially if we've like if she's cooked on Friday night, for example. So, you know, I've learned and she has stated and she also hasn't stated, but it's like it's nice to be able to um anticipate and know that that bid has been placed there.
00:23:50
Speaker
And how can i you know, help set her up for a lovely Saturday morning by Making sure that we take care of those either that night or you know I'll wake up early and get going on breakfast and then she'll come down and she won't you know have to do anything like that. so Yeah, that's good.
00:24:09
Speaker
Those are some recent situations. That's good. Anything for you, Flez or Garrett? I relate to this on both sides of the coin, whether it's saying something with a little bit of passive aggressiveness or...
00:24:25
Speaker
wanting to address something or talk about something, but... a TV show or the phone can just be an escape on, on either side. Yeah.
00:24:36
Speaker
I think in reading this and you, you hit on, you hit exactly what I'm going to reference Rob, where um he mentions there might be a negative emotion tied to essentially a request or a question.
00:24:50
Speaker
The question might be as simple as like um fold the laundry or like switch the laundry over. But if there's a negative emotion tied to it, it, I am more prone. I think people in general are more prone to get defensive, to attack back, and that kind of thing.
00:25:04
Speaker
And I think the reality is, and we've all, I'm sure, experienced this, if instead you take that negative comment and say like, oh, it sounds like you want me to do this, you do it.
00:25:15
Speaker
The next time, it's not as negative. And it's more like... I think it's, I mean, your goal is not to inspire guilt and your partner with that, but it can. And that's not a bad thing. I think that sometimes like, you know, a little, Ooh, maybe I was a little harsh. There can be good to experience as a spouse because then we're like, okay, like I came on strong, they're caring for me. They're loving for me. And I think for me, it's like, that's a really good reminder of keep it objective.
00:25:40
Speaker
Like, You know, if there's a request in the negative emotion, like just focus on the request, try to honor the request. Because it's like, again, at the end of the day, and like, I think you mentioned the very beginning, it's like the problem is the problem. Like your the problem is never your partner.
00:25:54
Speaker
You know, you you're trying to grow together. You're trying to be happy together. And so if you can objectively like, OK, it sounds like you want this. Can I do that for you? Yeah. And then it's important to not double down once you did it, right?
00:26:07
Speaker
Where you're basically like, hey, there you go. Hope you're happy, you know, or something like that. But it's important, right, to to recognize that, oh, you know, maybe they didn't actually mean to come off so harsh or, ah you know, just truly loving would just be.
00:26:27
Speaker
you know, doing and not expecting like, um, you know, praise or admiration, but you know, I know that, you know, there is some, the respect component as well. So, but yeah, at that point, and I think it's
Growth and Understanding in Relationships
00:26:41
Speaker
tough. It's like, yeah, whenever you or feel like you're getting yelled at or treating unfairly, it's like, it's not always easy to be like, yeah, sure, honey. i think that's going to be true.
00:26:49
Speaker
Whether you're the wife or the husband, I think that's going always be the case. Yeah. i mean, if both both pete folks are um you know they they're willing to look you know and in the mirror and recognize when they could have done something better, um yeah you know then it allows for growth on both sides. Even if one partner does slip up in negativity and doesn't do five to one, as Gottman recommends, but it's a, ooh, maybe this week I was...
00:27:21
Speaker
one-to-one or maybe even one-to-two, right? Like I was more negative than I was positive, but just being able to take a step back and want to see growth in it too.
00:27:32
Speaker
Trying to relate to this from my standpoint of being in a relationship for six months, still being in the honeymoon phase, but so I can't really relate to like the dishwasher thing because we don't live together, but yeah, that's good. Yeah.
00:27:49
Speaker
and Hell yes. Amen. What did say? Hell yes. Hell yes. a But like being distracted by the wild, wired world, kind of ironic me saying and i was on my phone the other day after just talking about how I'm on my phone.
00:28:08
Speaker
snap. Hear me out. Hear me out. Hear me out. All right. So I get a text from my mom and she's like, hey, don't forget to... submit your expenses for your FSA from last year. and i'm like, so it was like a light bulb in my brain. And when I have a task that I have to do, I like have to do it and get it yeah done right then and there.
00:28:31
Speaker
And so like, I just immediately pulled out my phone and I was at Sarah's. We were hanging out the morning. She was doing something else though. So I feel like there's kind of like a little leeway here, but I got on that app and I just started taking screenshots of receipts and uploading it into the app to get reimbursed for my FSA and all that stuff. And,
00:28:50
Speaker
I was telling her as I was doing, I was like, yeah, this is awesome. i just got back $60 from last year. and ah And then it was like $50. I was like, yeah, this is awesome. in a And I got done with it. And she's like, yeah, it's great. I just wish you maybe, if I were you, I probably would have waited until later to do that while we're hanging out.
00:29:12
Speaker
I was just like, I'm in the scarcity loop. So Herb. I'm in the slot machine right here. High repeatability.
00:29:24
Speaker
High repeatability, unvariable or variable reward. This last receipt was $1.80.
00:29:33
Speaker
like I gotta to go again. I gotta go again. But, uh, no, it's okay but yeah I mean, that hits on exactly like that's her bed. Her bed is like, Hey, like I'm here. But, but I will say that like, she's like, you know, I know how you are.
00:29:50
Speaker
Like, I know how you get hyper fixated and hyper focused on things. And like, So she started off with like, she knows me. So like, I feel known. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then she says what she wants, which is like, I highly respect that. Like, I think a lot of men and women oftentimes get into the habit of not saying, you what they want in a clear and respectful manner and like you know what i mean like she wasn't passive aggressive she said it in a loving way you know what i mean and uh he was really healthy so it's a good experience for us i'm laughing at that because there's definitely been times with ruth and i where i am frustrated and upset about something and end up having this like
00:30:36
Speaker
like conversation that's filled with conflicts and it's like two hours into the conversation. And I'm like, Oh, now I know what I wanted from this. And it's like, I, and I know it's, you know, it's funny.
00:30:48
Speaker
Cause I know that's, again, that's me. Like, that's not me. Like I have an emotion. i get frustrated, upset. And then it's like, I can't pinpoint it. And so I just express frustration um,
00:31:02
Speaker
I think, yeah, it's it's I feel like you have to just like learn and relearn that all the time. Yeah. ah All right, gents. let's Let's move on to the final question of the chapter four.
Enhancing Communication with Partners
00:31:17
Speaker
So exercise two, starting on page 97, focuses on how to have stress-free or stress-reducing conversations that encourage active listening.
00:31:27
Speaker
It guides you on how to respond to each other's venting with empathy and without judgment. The series of steps goes as follows. Take turns, so give each other the floor. Show genuine interest. Stay focused on your partner and ask questions.
00:31:42
Speaker
Don't give unsolicited advice. Be a shoulder to lean on, not the problem solver. Communicate your understanding. Let your partner know you emphasize empathize with them.
00:31:54
Speaker
Take your partner's side. Express your support. Express a we against each other's we against others attitude. This basically expresses solidarity to make sure your partner knows they are not alone.
00:32:07
Speaker
Show affection, such as holding your partner, telling them that you that that you love them. And finally, validate the emotion. Let your partner know his or her feelings make sense to you.
00:32:18
Speaker
So what did you guys think of this section? How do you see these conversations play out in your marriage or relationship today? Are there any of these steps that you consistently succeed or fail at?
00:32:30
Speaker
A lot of these deeply resonated in my life. The first one on the recipient side of listening is don't give unsolicited advice.
00:32:42
Speaker
That is probably layup answer. Yeah. With guys wanting to be problem solvers. And it took me a while to understand that. I still am not perfect. But when Brooke is talking about her day or a difficult patient or ah how she's just feeling being pregnant, a lot of times I can just default think of. Hey, we'll have you talk to your supervisor about this or I can try to get in. well How can we make your, how can we strategize to make your day less stressful?
00:33:18
Speaker
And that's not the idea. It's just listening, empathizing, supporting. i also think of on my side of things, feeling part five and six, take your partner's side and express a we against others attitude.
00:33:35
Speaker
That's really big for me, just feeling like I have someone in my corner, especially if I'm dealing with anxiety or recognizing that I'm not thinking through something probably the most normal.
00:33:48
Speaker
Or just even if I've made a mistake, if I'm frustrated about something that happened at work and I'm partially or in the majority at fault, still knowing that she's supportive on my side, that really just means a lot to me.
00:34:06
Speaker
So there there were a few that really stuck out. And then I would say validating. And I think that's on both sides. I think a lot of times it's like, oh, yeah, the woman's the emotional one.
00:34:18
Speaker
Guys, you know, we've talked about it. We're not as good with emotions, but it does really mean a lot when you're feeling a certain way and your spouse responds and is like, oh, yeah, that I totally get that.
00:34:31
Speaker
That makes a ton of sense. That can be a very relieving experience. So I really enjoyed this section. now Now, let me ask you this. the so So expressing a we against others attitude that you said that was big for you.
00:34:46
Speaker
If your wife is seeking that, but you are the problem solver and you're like, oh, well, maybe I think you should have done this differently or um that person, other person may be wrong. Is it harder for you to like do that when you don't necessarily agree with maybe how your wife, like the situation that your wife's dealing with or how she handled it or whatever? Like, is it harder to be like, yeah, that guy's a turd when he might not actually be a turd?
00:35:17
Speaker
You know what mean? get i get it And It's that's hard for me sometimes. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Something that immediately came to mind was that conversation can take place, but perhaps waiting to have it for a later time.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think as it relates to this, Garrett, I'm going release a really similar page to you where I think that I give too much advice right off the bat. And I think that i really appreciate that we versus others. And I think Ruth does a really good job of that. ah If I'm not doing well, I'm upset about something. Ruth is awesome.
00:35:52
Speaker
ah Coming to my side and supporting in that. And like even just in this conversation, I'm like, yeah, I don't... i In giving advice, I'm doing the opposite, as you mentioned, Rob. And i'm you know at times, I'm taking the side of like, well, maybe they...
00:36:06
Speaker
but their thought that, you know, with the, the way they responded though, can you understand where they're coming from? And it's like that, that doesn't help Ruth. And so, um, you know, I think I, I see that in a better job. I think the two of the thoughts I had with, with kind of this list here was the, it's a great list.
00:36:23
Speaker
It's great concepts. Uh, It's almost like you need to review some, like we can all agree with this by the way. Like I think this is, yeah, it makes sense. But it's like, it'd be really great to read five minutes before you have the conflict. Right. Cause you don't think this way when you're upset about something. um Yeah.
00:36:44
Speaker
But I remember reading it. Even after reading it day later, I was like, okay, what did I read again? yeah yeah whats What's the first thing I need to do Stop yelling at Marianne. um the What it reminds me of though too is my, ah in doing physical therapy, I think that the the best like continue education course ever I ever did was a course on interviewing and it was patient interviewing.
00:37:13
Speaker
and you know, kind of think motivational interviewing and that kind of thing. And a lot lot of it, it was along these lines of empathize with your patient, like take the side of your patient. Like if they want to like be upset about something, be upset at it with them.
00:37:27
Speaker
And I still remember before that class started, it was a guy within my company at the time, which was a big national company and great communicator. And I remember him saying this class, I believe won't just help you.
00:37:42
Speaker
in the clinic, but it will also help you in your homes. And I was like, yeah. And I think like, you know, here we are, it's probably been six years ago. And I still think like, yeah, some of the things we said were I still, the one I always, yeah I always go back to is like, you know, and if a, if a patient, and again, we're going to compare it to like your spouse is like telling this awful scenario or something sad or that upset about whether you think it or not, like the right answer is that sucks.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like i I, try to incorporate that. Like I don't do it excellently, but try to be like, yeah, that's, that's, that really sucks.
00:38:18
Speaker
I'm sorry. I need to focus on, I mean, yes, the unsolicited advice, but the step before that shows genuine interest. Stay focused on your partner and ask questions. i I think sometimes because I go, like I'm very objective. So I'm hearing the story. i'm I'm trying to root cause, corrective action it already where it's like, Like, like we could have done this or that.
00:38:45
Speaker
What do you think about this? And so in that processing, I'm losing interest in everything that comes like after a point, you know, and then with that, I can't communicate my understanding because she might already be talking about.
00:39:01
Speaker
x y and z but i'm still focused on ab b c d e f you know and so i think this was this is helpful and yes dale and i agree it it almost feels like i should just you know keep it in my back pocket at all times uh but i'm motivated by you know reading this and yeah it's good I want to look forward to the next conversations that we have where I can really implement this. Not not as like a checkbox, like I got to do it, but just yeah like being able to really be there for your spouse when they need them and to show up. and
00:39:42
Speaker
Sometimes I think a lot of our um fights or frustrations can start from you just You just weren't present in that conversation yeah and you didn't show up for me. and And that's what our spouses need is someone to show up with them so that they can navigate life together and not you know be a bunch of problem solvers that never empathize with them.
00:40:07
Speaker
That's good. Yeah. Good. Well, as anything to add into there, brother? You know, I don't have like specific situations that you guys do because you've been with your spouses for a long time. You know, im we're in the honeymoon phase, like, and don't live together. and But I think that love Sarah. You're in the love bird stage.
00:40:25
Speaker
I think that some of the reasons why I love her is because I respect her so much. I think she's got like, like she works directly with her company's CEO and CIO daily and like does things for them. And they like praise her. She's really smart. She is very wise.
00:40:41
Speaker
You know, I'll say something and she'll, have like a perfect answer for it or like in a text message or or whatever whatever if I'm having a bad day she makes it she makes it easy to do things like take turns because I find her what she does for work so interesting you know It's easy to just sit back and listen to her talk about it. And then in the past, I think with combination of just having like a little bit of ADHD type stuff, I feel like I tend to want to like jump in whenever I feel like I'm thinking the same thing as the other person and I want to finish what they're saying.
00:41:15
Speaker
You know, I think everybody does that a little bit, but it's something I've had to work on, not in like relationship stuff, but in general. um And so and don't do that with her.
00:41:26
Speaker
ah Definitely show genuine interest. She does that with me. um and Unsolicited advice. i would say that I Definitely probably do that.
00:41:37
Speaker
I just can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head right now with her. um and think we all probably do that to an extent. um Empathy, I could definitely do better with that for sure.
00:41:50
Speaker
a Sometimes it's just like if I like have a moral like conviction about something, i just can't not deviate from that.
00:42:01
Speaker
ah ah Yeah, I think that we right now do a good job of listening to each other. it's good. Validating each other's emotions. Sometimes I have emotional dysregulation and and I'm not that great at it, but most of the time i am.
00:42:17
Speaker
So I think we're on a good path. Good. Right on.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:42:21
Speaker
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Books Brothers Podcast. Join us next week as we discuss books.
00:42:41
Speaker
Lastly, we would love to hear your thoughts.
00:42:50
Speaker
Until next week, read, reflect and connect.