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S6.E8 - Gates of Fire - Book 8
24 Plays1 month ago
Garrett leads our discussion of Book 8: “Thermopylae” from Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of The Battle of Thermopylae by Steven Pressfield.
- Recap of Book 8 (0:48 - 4:29)
- What does it say about Rooster’s character arc starting from his repeated denial of being offered to become a Spartan citizen because of his hatred of them to ultimately becoming a Spartan captain? (4:30 - 9:00)
- What can we learn from the Spartans and their culture of building resolve around certain values that never crack and dissolve when faced with inevitable pressures in life? (9:01 - 11:43)
- Which character do you most identify with? Which character do you want to most identify with? (11:44 - 20:33)
- The guys share their favorite parts of the book and any final thoughts (20:34 - 25:11)
- Thomas previous our next book, Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage written by Alfred Lansing. (25:12 - 27:31)
That wraps up Season 6! Our next book will be Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing.
You can buy the book on Amazon by clicking here.
You can also borrow it at your local library. Don’t have a library card, or unsure where your local library is? Search on Google Maps, or find your local library by clicking here.
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See you next week! Until then - read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Ziones' Survival Tale
00:00:48
Speaker
book, In this book, Ziones details the final battle at the hot gates where every Spartan and Thespian perish. save Siones himself, since he is recounting the entire book. At this point in the book, the Persians are now losing the battle at sea. Siones' health is failing, but he has strength to tell one last story, how Leonidas chose the 300. We had not learned his methodology for choosing, and the Persians really wanted to know themselves at this point.
00:01:23
Speaker
The scene shifts to Lady Paralea's home, where Leonidas and his wife, the Queen Gorgo, visit her in her grief. Paralea had just learned that both her husband, Olympias, and her son, Alexandros, were selected as two of the 300. So that means she'd lose both of them simultaneously.
00:01:44
Speaker
Leonidas shares that he, quote, chose them, the Spartan men, not for their own valor, but for that of their women. When the 300 die and all of Greece look at Sparta, they will look to the women's response. If they are steadfast and embrace the honor of what the battle stood for, then all of Greece will respond accordingly.
00:02:08
Speaker
Ziones then dies. In a twist, Orantes, the Persian captain, who is overseeing his capture, his captivity, he ends up paying three Greeks in the city that they're in, who are plundering the ransacked city because again, the Persians are losing the battle.
00:02:27
Speaker
Things are just in mass chaos. The Greeks are taking back the land. And Orantes pays these guys to stop ransacking the city and return Ziones' body to the same convent that Diamache lives in. He pays them handsomely and they do it. The book ends with the story focusing on the historian who wrote down Ziones' retelling of the entire story, which is this book.
00:02:57
Speaker
The Persians fall, Xerxes retreats, and the historian's station was overrun by Greek helots. Right as the historian was about to be killed, in his desperation, he started yelling out every Spartan name he had learned from Zionis' story. The helots stop from killing him and bring him to a Spartan rooster.
00:03:23
Speaker
Rooster corroborated the historian's claim that he knew Zionis, as Zionis' body and as as ashes indeed were returned to Lake Damon by a priestess of the temple. So I presume that is Diamaki herself.
00:03:39
Speaker
The last paragraphs detail how after the war, Spartan women were taken to the battlefield afterwards to gather any remains of the fallen Spartans and pay tribute. At the battlefield, an epitaph was engraved in stone that said, quote, Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie.
Character Arcs & Themes Discussion
00:04:04
Speaker
End quote.
00:04:06
Speaker
So with that, we have read another book. Book eight, Thermopylae was moving and gripping to the very end with several different storylines being tied together.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I wanted to first focus on the storyline of Rooster, which in this book actually they call him by his actual name, Deckton, which I think says something about him. So first, what do you all think it says about Rooster's character arc? That in the end, he is a Spartan officer who leads two battalions of armed helots to a victory over the Persians. And for context, if you haven't read the book or listened to previous episodes,
00:04:47
Speaker
Rooster, throughout the book, denied the offer to become a Spartan citizen and was banished to fight in the Persian army because he hated the Spartans so much. And in episode seven, we learned he had a change of heart, helped attempt to assassinate Xerxes, and Leonidas granted him Spartan citizenship and his freedom. So he has completely done a 180.
00:05:13
Speaker
So what do you all think about how that the story ended with Rooster's character development? I think Rooster, kind of on a lighter note, Rooster is like the guy who plays for your your team, whatever team you're supporting. And he starts talking bad about your team because they're not giving him the contract he wants or something like that. So then he ends up on a different team. He doesn't do as well on the other team. He starts complaining about the other team and then he eventually comes back to your team and he he kind of is like, oh, like, I feel like I missed out on You know, I didn't understand really the the privilege I had. The example I think of with this is like if Tyreek Hill were to come back to the Chiefs, you know, right now Tyreek Hill with the Dolphins, it's like he clearly doesn't actually think to us that a better quarterback than Patrick Mahomes, but he's got to say that right now. and so
00:05:58
Speaker
I think that's the example I think of, which is obviously way lighter. But it is a not very common plot line for people in general to have this big of a like redemption turnover and that kind of thing. I think it's cool to see. I think, again, we know with what the Persians thought versus what the Greeks thought. and you know He was so excited to go to the Persians because he was looking forward to like essentially killing Greeks. But then you see like he's like, oh, freedom is actually pretty cool. And being like a so under a slave or and a warlord is It's not ideal. So we can all agree Rooster was the hunchback in the movie 300.
00:06:36
Speaker
Right. Except that apparently he was a specimen of a man. So not quite the hunchback. That sounds right. He kind of did all the same things. The hunchback doesn't ever actually come back. Okay. Minus the hunchback. But he always wanted to be a Spartan in a sense. And then he went to the other side. Yeah. I just wonder how they came up with that character from a story like this. Yeah. Zack Snyder.
00:07:01
Speaker
I love a book with a good character arc, character development, whether that's going from a really good person to an evil person or vice versa. And I think Steven Pressfield does a great job with character development in this book.
00:07:17
Speaker
If you're on Goodreads or read reviews on any book, really, one of the categories that people often talk about is character development and seeing Roosters arc end up this way. It was just such a triumphant moment.
00:07:34
Speaker
Really cool to see that he came from being this bitter spoiled little brat of a man who became a traitor. And then out of simply the grace of Leonidas, he got into citizenship. And then we see him fighting against the Persians. It was just very cool to see. Very inspiring. And also probably somewhat relatable. Not all of us are the Dionychis of the world where We're just living the most honorable life all the time. A lot of us have our faults, but there's always room for redemption. That's good. Flos, you got any thoughts? I think his transformation just shows how loyalty and honor and respect can reshape someone's life purpose, not how he's initially so critical of the way the Spartans are. And then eventually he embodies those values. I think it's just kind of cool how he changes so much.
00:08:30
Speaker
What about you, Thomas? There's a lot of roosters in Hawaii, right? Ton of roosters, man. They don't have much character development, though. Unfortunately, they kind of do the same stuff all the time. Just peck around and run in front of cars and stuff. Cock-a-doodle-doo. Classic.
Lessons on Resilience
00:08:50
Speaker
All right, this story showcases how the commitment to a cause by a small number of people can overpower a large number of fractured groups of people.
00:09:01
Speaker
The Battle of Thermopylae was likely the figurative straw that broke the Persians' camel's back. So what can we learn about this and apply to our own lives today to build a consistent lifestyle committed around specific beliefs and values to ensure we ourselves don't crack and dissolve when pressure inevitably comes?
00:09:24
Speaker
I think of faith, obviously. Our foundation is our faith. That's kind of the ultimate cause that we're all fighting for. And so like when pressure comes in our lives, do we just crack or do we turn to God? Do we turn to Jesus? That's just what I think of our right off the bat. I'm sure that we can all relate to that.
00:09:44
Speaker
For sure, I think just really simply the idea that when you stand firm for your values, you're not just doing it for yourself. Other people see it and it can inspire, it can change them.
00:09:57
Speaker
I think we saw this in the previous books where discipline and habit come into play. One of my favorite quotes from the Hobbit movie is Gandalf says, I've found it as a small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay.
00:10:20
Speaker
So little disciplines, little things that you do every day build habits. And so whenever hard times come, you have that habit formed from doing these little discipline things every single day. And yeah, when the, when the pressure comes, when the stress comes, you're already mentally prepared because of the habits that you've been doing. That's good. This question reminds me of the quote, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
00:10:48
Speaker
And I do feel like in today's day and age when everybody has an opinion, and everybody has a point of view and they're kind of just spraying it around everywhere else. um It is hard to stay on track and you have the word fractured and you're talking about fractured in terms of groups of people in this case, but I think at least personally, my attention gets fractured easily in terms of what I choose to focus on most or what I choose to pursue is like my main goal in life. And it is hard to stay committed to
00:11:21
Speaker
a particular cause over a long period of time, which is really what gets you the furthest. And especially if you're in a group and and you guys are all kind of doing the same thing. So I think that's key. but Which character do you most identify with? And perhaps another way to answer it or part two of the question, which character do you want to most identify with? And I'll start it off. I would say I most identify with Alexandros.
00:11:50
Speaker
I think he is kind of the odd duck of the 300. It kind of chronicles how he's like part of the group, but he's just like a little bit different.
00:12:02
Speaker
And I, I've shared with you guys sometimes I like, I can feel like that where it's like, yeah, man, I can, I can play sports. I can fit in and most ways, but then there's a lot of ways where I i can kind of feel like a fish out of water or just different. Right. And Alexandra's example, he was always a truth teller, never went along with like the sarcasm line. He was just like, no, I'm going to tell the truth. I, I hate death. It scared me.
00:12:29
Speaker
and he liked art and stuff. I'm not super artsy, so I'm not saying I i align with all of his personality types, but more of just like that, like I was the guy in the football locker room that was just kind of felt like the the odd man out or whatever. And so I identified with a lot with that, and I really enjoyed how he pushed through some of his barriers of like, man,
00:12:53
Speaker
War. That was tough to see. But this is what I'm called to do. So I'm still going to do it. I thought that was really cool. So I really like to Alexandra's. All right, Garrett, your other question, though, which character do you want to most identify with? Yeah, I feel like that one's probably going to be a little bit more unanimous. People are going to say Leonidas or Diana Keys or something like that. But answer however you want. Yeah, this is the the mic is yours.
00:13:19
Speaker
I am Leonidas, actually, reincarnated. The Gerard Butler version, though, not the old man version. I think, ah for me, probably Zione's. I think that Zione spends a lot of time thinking about what he wants to become and doesn't necessarily do that. I think that he he has these goals and aspirations, and I think that sometimes kind of gets in the way of actually being those things and doing those things. He seems to be a little bit of a follower.
00:13:48
Speaker
I still think that he has like some, you know, noble and good values, but I think that compared to the other um individuals, I don't think that he stands as strong with things. And then I think for me, probably Dionychis is like the one where I would say like I'd aspire, like want to be like, and really it has probably most to do with, and I think I talked about it a couple of weeks ago.
00:14:11
Speaker
I think he truly represents and in this telling of the story like a whole man, like a well-rounded man, masculinity in strength, intelligence, wisdom, but also like emotional intelligence. Yeah, I mean, Diana Keys, from like a mentorship perspective, his wisdom and how he just kind of had good perspective on situations and how he cared so much for Alexandros as his mentor, as well as his girls, as a father, as a husband, how he was willing to take the fall to spare Rooster's baby, things like that. it was There were a lot of things that it's like, yeah I want that to be true of my life. I want to be known as someone who mentors and raises up other men not directly related to me, but then also really cares about my family.
00:15:02
Speaker
and is willing to perhaps have some stains on my public reputation if it means living with integrity and doing the right thing deep down. Let's say I relate most to a readie. Just kidding. Man, I thought you were about to say something serious, Fles. I would probably say Xerxes because he's a badass and he's the king of everything. Because he's a god.
00:15:32
Speaker
What about the wake up to these? Anyone relate to that guy? I think that was my character for Thomas. I think Thomas could be that guy. He's the vendor that goes around the Spartan camp and just is making everyone laugh. And he has that sign on his caravan or whatever that's like.
00:15:53
Speaker
the best prices for you, my foreskin, name my friend, he says, wake up to these. I thought you were going to say that the guy they called tripod.
00:16:08
Speaker
No one could take him down. That's, that's why, that's why. Anyone else laugh at the name elephant Tynos? Yeah. No, but seriously, I think I relate mostly to Ziones just because of his dedication and loyalty. I think I'm a very loyal person and feel like ah he's very relatable. So it's easy to relate to that character the most.
00:16:30
Speaker
You know, he's just very loyal and dedicated to preserving like those around him. He's just a really cool character, but, uh, I really want to strive to be like Pauline Kees. Yeah. Hey, he's the, he's the fastest of all of them. a Yeah. I just want to be super arrogant and then, you know, finally break down and cry. He's totally a bro. A lot of people would think you're cool. Are you being serious though? It's okay if you are.
00:16:58
Speaker
I'm serious about Zione's. I'm not serious about Pauline Niki's. I mean, he was a he was a really i mean an awesome character. And again, at the end, I thought it was really cool. Some of the things he did, I don't view him poorly. Yeah, I don't either. That's the book that I discussed. I've led was Pauline Niki's. So I thought it was cool. But I mean, I have to go with Leonidas. It's just his wisdom, obviously. The book version, not the movie version. His servant leadership, for sure.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah. So for the record, both Adams, you don't identify with zionis because you had very hardcore crushes on any of your cousins as a teenager.
00:17:39
Speaker
I mean, we all had, you know, me wanted to give you guys the opportunity to clear the air. We did both grow up in Fenton, so you never know.
Character Traits & Respect
00:17:51
Speaker
What are we talking here?
00:17:56
Speaker
I can't say who I feel like I'm most like, but I would say I thought Bruxious was an awesome character. I'm not gonna lie, I'm drawn a blank. Who was that again? He was the slave. The very beginning, like the mentor. The uncle. Yeah, I thought it was pretty amazing that as a slave, everybody gave him the most respect, shows how humbly he was.
00:18:18
Speaker
despite the fact that he was more skilled in a lot of ways than the folks that kind of ruled over him. They still respected him a ton. And he took those kids under his wing, you know, regardless of the circumstances as if they were his own. And I thought that was pretty cool. But if I had read more of the book, I would have a better answer. I think it's a great call, though. I forgot about him. And yeah, what he did, like, he saved those ZMAs and Diomache's life. So that's awesome. I've been going back and forth.
00:18:47
Speaker
But I probably had to land with Ziones. It was going to be Alexandros, but thinking about Ziones and his faith, how devoted he is to his faith and his love for archery. I'm a sucker for for a bow and arrow, and but he's just so loyal and devoted to the things that he cares about. And I admire that he's always trying to get better at what he does. He's athletically gifted.
00:19:17
Speaker
and talented and also a badass. He goes on that night raid, try to kill Xerxes, and yeah, he's just a really cool character. If I had to choose what I want to be like, there were two characters that were barely mentioned. They were like the brothers Alpheus and Maron, I think is their names.
00:19:39
Speaker
They were like up there with Paul Nikes as he's Olympic level athletes, incredible warriors, and they got to fight alongside King Leonidas. So I don't want to be in an actual leadership position. I'd rather have the honor of fighting for King Leonidas. That's why I wanted to ask that question because I felt like each of us might get different answers because there's so many characters with so many different legit character development. Love it. Love the diversity of answers.
00:20:10
Speaker
Thresiones and Alexandros and Abreuxius and then Aspire we had ah Diana Keys, Leonidas, Alpheus. I love it. I love that there's multiple characters to pull from.
00:20:24
Speaker
Just to wrap this up, any final thoughts on the book? Maybe share what your favorite part of the book was or anything, anything just to kind of summarize or recap the book and bring it to a conclusion. Yeah, I just thought this was such a really, really good book. I think my favorite overall part of the book was just overall imagery. You could just really get into the scenes of the book so easily and they're very vivid and descriptive and like the scene where alexandra's gets his hand chopped off it's like you can literally like he puts you in that scene and you can see it happen it's like an almost in slow motion that scene that's how it was for me at least i would go with the imagery i really like the realism which i've mentioned before but
00:21:08
Speaker
how the author just makes it seem so real and physical. You really get to and understand how exhausting fighting in a war is and all the preparation that goes into it. And I think my one of my favorite parts is when Leonidas shows his servant leadership by just starting to build that wall.
00:21:32
Speaker
This picks up a stone and starts stacking him in the midst of everyone else quarreling and arguing. He shows his leadership just by doing.
00:21:43
Speaker
There's so many to choose from. One that stands out was Diana. He's handling of the three people that tried to flee from the Spartan camp to their own safety in the reverse psychology that he put not just on them, but on the entire army of calling out what was going on in their, everyone's hearts and how everyone doesn't want to be there. They'd rather be safe and sound, but then also letting them desert the camp.
00:22:12
Speaker
and then letting anyone else desert the camp. And I think I can be a fairly controlling person where I'm like, I know what's best.
Leadership in Action
00:22:21
Speaker
If things just happen this way, whether it's parenting or at work or anything like that, I can just kind of be like, this is how it should be. So I'm going to try to puppeteer these people to do what I want because I know what's best.
00:22:36
Speaker
And Diana Keys basically gave up all control and he was just like, all right, anyone can leave. And by doing that, he gave people the freedom to choose and the people that stayed, you knew they were the most loyal. They were there because they wanted to be.
00:22:53
Speaker
And they chose honor like you just knew who was there who had your side. And that just really spoke to me of like the paradoxical nature of that event of by seemingly releasing control was actually the best thing that could have happened from that point on for the Greeks and being unified in the fight from that point on.
00:23:17
Speaker
I was just impressed how in a book he was able to split up kind of the different times in which the, and and I guess the narration of it in a way that was so easily to understand. Because I think sometimes when storylines hop from time period to time period, or you you're in like kind of a space where the story's being told in present versus, you know, as a story.
00:23:43
Speaker
in the future. Sometimes it can it's easy to get lost, but I didn't necessarily feel like that was the case with this book. Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. I think one part that sticks out to me was, I think first to say, not typically the style of book that I read, definitely a challenging read for me. But one thing that stuck out to me was the exchange that Damaki and Zione's had whenever she's like off living in like the convent of sorts. And really where she's talking, and I talked about this a couple weeks ago, but where she's kind of talking about how there are these virtues, essentially, there's these things that
00:24:17
Speaker
are in the world, but they're not really of the world. And I think that it just fits well with the whole concept of the book of there's a lot of virtues that are discussed that are pretty high level virtues that we can't attain for a whole lifetime, but, you know, we can attain in moments or time periods. And I think too, with that but just the idea of like suffering with your like kind of current law, I think I want to be content. And I think that contentment is very hard to deal with.
00:24:47
Speaker
People always want something different, want something better, but the idea of like being content with what I have and knowing that like your current situation is like shaping you into the person you're supposed to be. That's great.
Season Finale & Future Plans
00:25:00
Speaker
Thanks for sharing, guys.
00:25:02
Speaker
All right, so with that, that wraps up season six of the Books Brothers podcast. Join us for season seven, where we will read Endurance, Shackleton's Incredible Voyage, written by Alfred Lansing. This is a book recommended to us by Thomas. Thomas, can you share why you recommended this book and what you're looking forward to reading together?
00:25:30
Speaker
ah Yeah, I feel like we all really enjoyed reading River of Doubt, which was another historical ah story based on a true story um with a lot of details of of what actually happened to to some of these wild explorers back in the day. And I believe this is actually set in ah pretty close to the time that the River of Doubt was was also happening. He referenced it in River of Doubt, actually, she referenced it.
00:25:56
Speaker
Right, so I kind of got turned on to the idea of reading this book by Stalin actually because he said it was like one of the best stories that he had ever read in terms of like um stories about explorers. And to kind of sum it up, I'll just kind of read the synopsis here. In August 1914, polar explorer Ernest Shackleton boarded the Endurance, became locked in an island of ice. Thus began the legendary ordeal of Shackleton and his crew of 27 men.
00:26:26
Speaker
When their ship was finally crushed between two ice flows, they attempted the near impossible journey over 850 miles of the South Atlantic's heaviest seas to the closest outpost of civilization. Which just sounds absolutely brutal. So I feel like it should be a pretty intense book. And I also did a book report on Ernest Shackleton in third grade. So I've got to learn more about this guy. He was a pretty cool guy, I think. So yeah, um I'm excited for it.
00:26:55
Speaker
talk about full circle bringing it back hopeful everybody enjoys it. Do you have that report? Could you read it to us to start off season seven? I'd love to hear a book report written by Thomas Dunstman as a 10-year-old. I might have it. My mom might have it at home. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Well, we're excited to read it. Excited for another book. River of Doubt was incredible, so if this is anything like it, it's going to be a really fun read. Yeah, absolutely.