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Episode 61: Create Shared Meaning (Principle 7)
22 Plays3 days ago
Garrett leads the discussion of Principle 7: “Create Shared Meaning” and the Afterward from The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, PhD.
0:31 - “They Don’t Make ‘Em Like They Used To” - Video Games
Principle 7 Discussion - “Create Shared Meaning”
4:50 - Which Shared Meaning pillar is the most robust in your relationship? Explain why.
11:30 - Which Shared Meaning pillar do you want to develop most, and why?
25:28 - Robb previews our next book: Becoming a King: The Path to Restoring the Heart of a Man by Morgan Snyder
That wraps up Season 8! We’ll take the next month off. When we return, we’ll read Becoming a King: The Path to Restoring the Heart of a Man by Morgan Snyder.
You can buy the book on Amazon by clicking here.
You can also borrow it at your local library. Don’t have a library card, or unsure where your local library is? Search on Google Maps, or find your local library by clicking here.
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Email us at connect@booksbrotherspodcast.com
Please subscribe and give us a review! We would really appreciate it.
Until next month, read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:06
Speaker
I'm Matt. I'm Steven. I'm Floz.
Season Finale & Book Discussion
00:00:35
Speaker
Today is the last episode of season eight. We are wrapping up seven principles for making marriage work by John Gottman. We'll recap and discuss the seventh principle, create shared meaning and recap the book as a whole.
00:00:49
Speaker
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00:00:54
Speaker
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00:01:45
Speaker
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00:02:01
Speaker
That's good. calls your mom. That's next level.
Nostalgia for Old Video Games
00:02:08
Speaker
I want that to write. Thank you to Smart Loop. Let's kick things off with our first segment. They don't make them like they used to. this got brought up last week. Video games.
00:02:19
Speaker
I'm going to steal everyone's answer. I'm going to say NFL Blitz. Matt, I feel like you always win at video games, so you probably played a lot as a kid.
00:02:29
Speaker
What were some of your video games you were a fan of as a child? Well, that's a loaded question because some of the video games that I loved as a child, they still have remakes that are out today, like Super Smash Brothers.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah. That was an incredible game on 64 GameCube, but they have a current version for the Switch. So with that said, one of the ones that I really miss is Star Fox 64. Oh, yeah. That one was so much fun.
00:03:00
Speaker
I'm going to have to go with the original 007 Goldeneye. Ooh. Get us a like odd job. Did you know that was like the first first person shooter video game?
00:03:14
Speaker
I just learned that recently. I did know that. That game kind of like transformed video games. Yeah. so Classic. I don't think I knew that. so Halo, the original Halo and Halo 2. Those are great. With online matchmaking. ye Sitting in that matchmaking lobby.
00:03:33
Speaker
Waiting your turn. Simpsons Road Rage? oh i played that one that's a good one i'm trying to think of some random ones broader not necessarily a proger video game but computer games the sims hmm such a random one i get a lie when you said the simpsons i was like is that i thought of the sims that's probably what i thought of it yeah yeah kingdom hearts that was a fun one Oh, yeah. Matt, I bet you probably played that one.
00:04:06
Speaker
It's like all the Disney characters and stuff. Oh, this was a computer game, Age of Empires. Yeah, I love those games. yeah Huge fan. Yeah, good one.
00:04:17
Speaker
Do you guys, any of you guys have the experience? I remember going to my grandparents' house and they had like the original, original video game system. i don't remember what it was called, but you'd like Pong and Duck Hunter.
00:04:31
Speaker
It's obviously not really from our, yeah, not from our generation, but also like, I don't think you could play those games on those systems anymore. If it's the Atari, they make, they have like a modern version of one.
00:04:44
Speaker
Wow. That's cool. That's pretty neat. Okay.
Creating Shared Meaning in Marriage
00:04:48
Speaker
Let's wrap up the book and talk about the last principle, create shared meaning. This is where we take marriage beyond just managing conflict and keeping the peace.
00:04:58
Speaker
This is about building a life together that actually feels rich, connected, and full of purpose. It's the difference between just being roommates and truly sharing a life. Gottman says that strong couples don't just share a home and bank account.
00:05:11
Speaker
They create shared meaning through four key pillars, rituals, roles, goals, and symbols. So rituals, these are the little things that give your relationship rhythm.
00:05:22
Speaker
Maybe it's always making coffee for your spouse in the morning, Friday date nights, or how you celebrate birthdays. These small habits create stability and connection. Roles. Who does what in the relationship?
00:05:35
Speaker
This is not just about chores, but roles in life. Are you a protector, a cheerleader, the comedian, the dreamer? Understanding and honoring each other's roles give a sense of belonging.
00:05:47
Speaker
Goals. What are you working toward together? Maybe it's raising kids a certain way, traveling the world, or starting a business. Couples with shared goals have a sense of direction that keeps them bonded.
00:05:59
Speaker
And lastly, symbols. These are the deeper meanings behind things in your relationship. Maybe your wedding song, family heirloom, or even an inside joke. Symbols remind you of your unique story together.
00:06:11
Speaker
So how do couples start creating shared meaning? Goblin suggests talking about these four areas intentionally. What traditions do you want to build? What roles do you each play? What dreams are you working toward?
00:06:23
Speaker
And what symbols hold meaning for you? While those questions are rhetorical in this recap, I do want to ask you guys, which pillar is most robust in your relationship and why?
00:06:37
Speaker
I think for us, the one that probably stuck out to me the most is roles. Yeah, I think maybe it's the phase of life that we're in right now, but it just feels like there's a lot of this needs to be done, that needs to be done. and so I think understanding how we work well together is a part of that. And think that helps us be connected. Just tonight, think,
00:06:59
Speaker
We Ruth and I went to, just did a little shopping with Daphne. And when we got to the store, we were shopping for some like shirts for me. And when we got there, I ended up having like a couple of work things that came up. And so ah basically i ended up having to take these calls and figure some stuff out. Well, there is little bit like anxiety producing from the sense of like, it's kind of the evening and I'm, I'm trying to like shift into time off, but there were some things that needed to get done.
00:07:25
Speaker
And, um, I felt fairly like guilty about how I wasn't like as engaged and involved in that moment being with Ruth, being with Daphne, which although that's true after I was able to finish my work stuff, I kind of shared Ruth. Hey, I apologize. had to do that. You know, um she was like super gracious with me to say like, Hey,
00:07:44
Speaker
this is how your work is. And I appreciate you working for us like this. And it was really fun. We rarely buy Daphne random stuff at the store. It's been pretty rare so far, but we decided to get her like just a little like princess style while we were there. And I think Ruth was able to like tie back like, Hey, like I'm not working right now. You're working right now.
00:08:05
Speaker
And so because you're working, we can get, our daughter,
Roles and Goals in Marriage
00:08:09
Speaker
nice things. And so even though that was a stressful experience for you, like I'm thankful you, for you, where I felt like I'm thankful for you, Ruth, for being able to essentially help a calm me down, but more importantly, spend this quality time with Daphne and be kind of like the caretaker in the moment.
00:08:24
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah. A couple of things come to mind for goals. And I know I said, what's one, but I'm going to share it two goals. I would say Brooke's career and With a specific time horizon, and you all know, but I've shared before, just with her scholarship that she received, we knew going into it that it would be and at a minimum an 11-year commitment to this path with four years of med school, at least three years of residency, and then four years. It'll be a little bit longer because of maternity leave.
00:09:00
Speaker
but four years of fulfilling that scholarship contract. So that has very easily provided a roadmap of where are we going And all of that, like filtering a lot of our lives through accomplishing that goal and getting her through school and into her practicing medicine debt free.
00:09:23
Speaker
But now getting closer to that point where maybe she does want to take some time off work in a couple of years or go part time. You know, that's fun to kind of approach the end of that goal and think about what would the next goal. And then symbols.
00:09:39
Speaker
I have two examples. One is a personal family one that started with my great grandparents, but I have a family ring. It's not an heirloom. It's not like a family crest, but it's a ring that we have the mold for our family does and every man in the family gets one when He turns 21 and I'm very excited to give that to my sons when they come of age.
00:10:05
Speaker
But Brooke studied abroad her fourth year of med school in France. in the city that she studied in. She went on like a little weekend trip and got some sort of art. It's it's like the size of a coaster. It actually looks like a coaster, but it's a painted view of a cool cliff in the town that she studied in.
00:10:29
Speaker
And when she came back, She said, hey, whenever I am pregnant with our first child, I want this to be what I give you to like, surprise, I'm pregnant. And then I want to put it in the baby's room.
00:10:43
Speaker
And so we have kept it and now going on, what, six years now because she got pregnant with our first child around six years ago right now. And we have it in the baby's room for this third child that she's about to have.
00:10:57
Speaker
So whenever I see that, I call it a coaster because I don't know what else to call it. But whenever I see that coaster, it reminds me of that before we even had kids. And it just elicits a lot of really positive memories because it's like yeah that's she got that right before she got pregnant with our first and it's a symbol of us having kids together and uh in the baby's room now it where it's the realization and the actualization of that meaning a long time ago that's cool it what pillar do you want to develop more and why pillar to develop more i would say goals for me
00:11:37
Speaker
for us.
Exploring Rituals and Traditions
00:11:38
Speaker
Emily and I have goals and we talk about them often. One of the big goals for us is getting our house remodeled. And i just don't enjoy doing housework.
00:11:50
Speaker
Emily doesn't either. So we've been putting off things like remodeling, painting for years
00:12:00
Speaker
And would be really nice to have it done, but we don't want to put the work into it. It's messy. We'd have to send the kids somewhere else for a weekend or otherwise it'll be messy for like a month.
00:12:15
Speaker
Uh, popcorn ceilings is one of them. One of our goals is to have those all scraped off. We just have three rooms left. One is a small hallway that leads into the laundry room.
00:12:26
Speaker
And one is our dining room, but the other one is a kitchen. So if we start that, we wouldn't have our kitchen for at least a couple of days. And if our kids are in the house, then with all the mess, it would probably be a lot longer.
00:12:41
Speaker
If you've ever done it, it's so messy and dust gets everywhere. It's awful, but it would just be really nice to have those things done. So we have goals, but actually working on them, that's where we need to work on them.
00:12:54
Speaker
Yeah. I would say our most robust would probably be rituals. We've set a really good schedule that works for our family.
00:13:06
Speaker
A weekly rhythm of meal plans, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Dinner switches up, but lunches are typically the same throughout the work week and school week for the kids.
00:13:18
Speaker
We have set rhythms, set things we do, set things... and like certain nights of the week, maybe every other Tuesday. And we always try to do bigger celebrations, like the major holidays and birthdays and make them consistent and all that fun stuff. So.
00:13:38
Speaker
It's good. It's good for the girls as well to have a rhythm that they enjoy. What I was going to say, I feel like you could combine your area to work on with your popcorn ceilings with a ritual and and call it a restaurant week where you do all eating out for one week when do your kitchen.
00:13:58
Speaker
That would be memorable. We could. It would. I'll crawl a restaurant crawl. There you go. We do like going up lot. I feel like your kids would remember something like that. Like, that was fun.
00:14:10
Speaker
i mean, you could paint it that way. Yeah. So on that note, for me, I feel like the ritual side is something that I do want to work on for us. ah You know, you talk about kind of like your weekly rhythms and we definitely have some of that.
00:14:23
Speaker
We have like our schedule, but I feel like what I, the desire that I'm would want to express is that like to inject more intentionality into certain things. And i mean, you guys have heard me talk at length about kind of my goals and how the habits that I form and stuff.
00:14:39
Speaker
But I think to, to put in certain ritualistic rhythms throughout the year that are associated with dates and holidays and that kind of thing. I think would be something that would just be really cool. I feel like whenever we do those kind of things, there's like lot memory associated with it.
00:14:55
Speaker
One thing that we do as far as rituals go, it' only one I can really think of that is like outside of our normal routine is that's like a planned thing is like always in December, we have like certain movie Christmas movies that we watch.
00:15:10
Speaker
And then a lot of people do that, something like that. But for us, it's always been like a kind of very meaningful time where we um are more intentional about resting and more intentional about watching silly old movies. And I think having some of those things in place to of, kind of as, you know, Garrett, you were mentioning like the art that Brooke gave you where you kind inject a lot of meaning into moments that can be small, but you make them bigger through that. Yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
but you slept Right now, Sarah and I are all about goals. you know It's mostly just goals right now. I feel like goal to learn how to handle conflict better, conflict resolution, like um to set us up for success for when we get married.
00:15:56
Speaker
and and then I have like all these goals for her house to make it look cooler and literally... like I used ChatGPT to recreate the front of her house and it is badass. Like, it's so cool. We're going to do it. We're going to do it like to a T. I took a picture of her, the front of her house and I put it in the ChatGPT and I said, make this look cooler.
00:16:22
Speaker
and then I did like a few more prompts. and And it looks awesome. And then had to list out instructions of how to do everything and the cost involved and everything.
00:16:33
Speaker
So that'll probably be the first thing that we do because that'll be the least you know least costly. um The backyard will be really... Yeah. You start doing like a patio and laying concrete and stuff like that. It gets pricey. But then like her basement...
00:16:49
Speaker
even her basement um i was like there's boxes everywhere this is like the smallest ceiling i've ever seen and the shortest ceiling i've ever seen not a ton of space i took a picture of it and jet gbt turned it into this badass speakeasy it looks really cool so we're gonna do that now and then uh Yeah, thats said and I don't know. just still used to like a lot of things I look forward to like that. um And i look forward to establishing more rituals together as we get like further along in our relationship and are, you know, living together more.
00:17:29
Speaker
But I guess, you know, in dating or keeping up with doing something different here and there on the weekends and stuff like that. And I go to her barn usually once a week to hang out with their horse.
00:17:41
Speaker
I think rolls is something that we'll probably have to learn more about as we kind of continue on. um Symbols, I guess one symbol I can think of is like, came up with the word pineapple for when usually me oh is flooded.
00:17:59
Speaker
Pineapple means like, this isn't going anywhere good. Let's just take a break for a second. So have yet to implement that, but it's, you know, it's there as needed.
00:18:10
Speaker
yeah That's great. That's good, man. Yeah.
Reflections on Marriage Book
00:18:15
Speaker
Gowan concludes the book by sharing the magic number to a happy and healthy marriage.
00:18:21
Speaker
Six. Not sex. Six. These principles can feel daunting to implement. So where do you start? How much and ah of an investment will this take to have the marriage you want?
00:18:33
Speaker
Well, but doing a handful of things throughout the week that totals up to six hours, such as a weekly date, showing affection as you leave for work and returning from work, and having a State of the Union meeting, which totals six hours, you will see improvement.
00:18:49
Speaker
What recommendation of the six hours of time that he broke down do you need to work on the most? I can start a state of the meeting. Sounds difficult. I like it. I like planning. i like organization.
00:19:02
Speaker
Sometimes too much formality you can overwhelm Brooke. Like do I do our finances in our home and we've worked out lot. It's not a sticking point, but we've worked out a plan where we talk quarterly, but I have to, I can just like dive into ROI and this and that. Charts and such.
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And you got a laser pointer. She's like, what are you, what is this? I made a deck. No. And so I think having a state of the union is, I think she'd be like, no, let's just, let's just hang out and just chat over dinner. And I'm like, well, no, I want to like go one day at a time. Look at the calendar.
00:19:41
Speaker
And so i think I think that would be like the most challenging one. But it could also be very helpful. i Like Nat already does that. So I should just call you offline and get some advice.
00:19:53
Speaker
I don't do charts or graphs. We just talk. Of course. Yes. It's good to know though. I think showing affection for me is what I need to work on most.
00:20:06
Speaker
I just get caught up in what needs to be done, but the next thing is. And yeah, it's just something I need to get better at as showing affection.
00:20:17
Speaker
Little things throughout the day. Little things.
00:20:22
Speaker
sayings or and i don't know, just show that I appreciate her more, more than I do. don't, I don't but't really recall the exact examples or kind of categories that he gave, but like the one thing I would, I would probably think of is Just like extremely intentional conversation.
00:20:46
Speaker
um i think he kind hit on that in a few different categories, but just to say like, Hey, let's talk for it like even lead it with, let's talk for five minutes here. Like let's talk for 10 minutes here instead of kind of the conversation happening well.
00:21:00
Speaker
As we, um, as we go about doing something else. So like a very focused, intentional, maybe it's after we put Daphne to bed and we, a five, 10 minute quick conversation of kind of addressing the day. I think that's something I know Ruth is, she likes stillness. She likes kind of peacefulness. And I think for me, it's hard to sit and talk. I want to like be working on something or doing something together, but more intentional conversation.
00:21:30
Speaker
So I guess in, uh, something that we do do, do as a ritual is every morning, Sarah will call me like seven 30, eight o'clock when we're both kind of getting ready for work and we'll just talk as we're getting ready.
00:21:48
Speaker
That's every morning. I i like have like, had to look forward to that.
00:21:55
Speaker
That's cool. Yeah. But as far as which one to work on the most, maybe having like a better weekly date. i feel like sometimes it can get easy to just settle with a like a movie or show and eat food at home.
00:22:10
Speaker
Maybe as the temperatures are warming up, we'll be better at getting out again more. you know, go doing, going and doing things again. So I feel like it's like, it's such a cheap date, just like sitting on a chair and like staring at a screen in front of you. It's like the least, think the the worst way to try to connect with somebody.
00:22:32
Speaker
You're not even like looking at each other and talking and just staring at something. So just like, it's such a cheap date. So like, whereas like, we're hopefully going to go pop-up golfing, but like pop-up golfing, you're like talking shit against each other.
00:22:48
Speaker
Talking smack. Sorry. Is that better? oh Yeah, you're communicating. You're interactive. you know It's like ah fun. yeah so I feel like we could be better at more intentional dates like that than just watching TV sometimes. but yeah Area of improvement, I guess.
00:23:09
Speaker
The last time Emily and I went on a putt-putt date, she got sick halfway through when I was winning.
00:23:22
Speaker
of losing.
00:23:26
Speaker
No, she actually did throw up that night. Was she pregnant? No, wasn't. did you Did you put something in her food to make her not play as well?
00:23:41
Speaker
you can answer off air. You can answer off. I'll take that one out. That's funny. Oh, man. Right on. Yeah, today ah Brooke came home and she was like she was like a six second kiss.
00:23:56
Speaker
I appreciated that. Any other thoughts on the book as we wrap up? I think it was a good one. Recommend to all who are married or trying to be get be married to read it.
00:24:10
Speaker
You've heard me share some throughout and hopefully you guys had a similar experience where i feel like it's been very foundational marriage book and Ruth is going through it here the first time. that's been kind of fun. Yeah. I mean, so many good tools in this book. I'm going to have to read it again for sure.
00:24:25
Speaker
just to kind of grasp all of it and be able to try to apply all of it or some of it for sure. Yeah, it was good.
00:24:35
Speaker
Good book. Had some really good tools, like you said, Flez. Just a matter of thinking of those in the moment and applying them. It did provide some really good questions to ask each other, especially when Emily and I went on our trip to Aruba.
00:24:51
Speaker
I broke out some of those questions and we went through them. That's cool. It was a really good just talking through them. yes Yeah, going through it together has been really special. brooke Not every week or whatever, but Brooke's been listening. She just finished it yesterday. And I mean, I joked, but it it was really cool. Like the six seconds and talking through some of the questionnaires and listening to the podcast. She's really enjoyed hearing other guys' perspectives too in their own marriages. So it's been a really good two months.
Episode Wrap-Up & Next Book Teaser
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah. So thank you for joining us in our discussion. That's a wrap on another book. We'll take some time off. But when we return for season nine, we will start reading Becoming a King, The Path to Restoring the Heart of a Man by Morgan Snyder.
00:25:43
Speaker
Rob, you recommended this book. Can you share why and what you're looking forward to the most about it? Yeah. So back when I was getting married a year, I guess from the time that I got engaged to the time that I got married, I did monthly marriage prep with a couple, but then I did spiritual direction with one of the priests that married us. And and I was asking, I was like, Hey, I just want to, you know,
00:26:12
Speaker
become a better man before i get married and do you have any resources that uh you would recommend and so he recommended this book becoming a king it's it's for a christian audience so it's not necessarily for for catholics necessarily but yeah so i i got into this book right before i got married And the foreword for the book is by John Eldridge, which is, you guys might remember him from, ah what is it? wild heart heart heart Wild at Heart, which is like one of the most, I don't know, famous books around like Christian masculinity, I feel like.
00:26:53
Speaker
But there were a lot of like good people that had quoted this book like Christopher West, Steve, e or the Eldridge guy as well, and some other folks. But yeah, just the insert of the book, how do you become the kind of man, the kind of king to whom God can entrust the kingdom?
00:27:13
Speaker
So it really focuses on just different traits of authentic masculinity probably a lot of good things that we've already talked about but ah with us being christian men with with values where we want to follow the life of of christ how do we weave this all back into jesus and and what he's called us to and The keys to the kingdom, right? Of how do we become a king, someone worthy enough to inherit the kingdom. And there's a lot of good things in here. I mean, just looking at the book um with some of the chapters, there's the references around...
00:27:54
Speaker
Becoming a son, becoming true, becoming the man you were to be, becoming a generalist. This one's kind of interesting. I remember this. It's like rather than being super good at a few things, just being like being okay at a number of things. and just i I think we might enjoy getting into that just since we have talked about some of that stuff. Becoming a warrior.
00:28:17
Speaker
becoming good soil, deep roots, like-hearted, and becoming a king. So just kind of like recognizing our true identity and how we can really uphold the responsibility that God has given us as men and how do we become that and live in that fully authentically. So...
00:28:40
Speaker
Excited to get into this with you guys. I think, yeah, masculine masculinity had some good topics around masculinity, but I think that was a more secular view and this this will get us more down the faith component side of things. So excited to get into it with you guys.
00:28:57
Speaker
That's great. Thanks. Yeah, I know we've talked offline a lot about getting into secular specific or more explicit Christian or spiritual bent book.
00:29:08
Speaker
So I'm very excited about this. Thanks for... recommending it. It looks like he has a podcast, podcast Become Good Soil. And he's only written this one book, which is interesting. He wrote wrote it about five years ago.
00:29:22
Speaker
So excited to get into it. Thanks for recommending it, Rob. we're We're really excited to get into that book. And yeah, thank you again for listening to and reading along with us for this book.
00:29:35
Speaker
ah Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Books Brothers Podcast. Again, we'll be taking the next month off, but when we return, we will start discussing Becoming a King, The Path to Restoring the Heart of a Man by Morgan Snyder.
00:29:50
Speaker
If you've enjoyed listening or benefited from our conversation, please subscribe, give us a review, and share with a friend that you want to connect deeper with. Lastly, we would love to hear your thoughts. You can reach us by email at connect at booksbrotherspodcast.com or on Instagram at booksbrotherspodcast.
00:30:08
Speaker
Until next month, read, reflect, and connect.