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S7.E7 - Endurance - Part 7
15 Plays2 hours ago
Stehlin leads our discussion of Part 7 from Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage by Alfred Lansing.
- (3:59) What were your overall thoughts on this section and the book as a whole?
- (9:42) Which stage of this survival journey sounds like the hardest part for you?
- (13:57) What are situations in your life where you had to exhibit extreme physical or mental resilience?
- (28:16) What were your thoughts on Shackleton leading the rescue efforts and seeing the rescue of the entire crew all the way through?
That wraps up Season 7! Our next book will be The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, Ph.D.
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We’re taking next week off, so we’ll see you in two weeks! Until then - read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Introduction & Ad Spot
00:00:28
Speaker
This episode of the Books Brothers podcast is brought to you by Wine and Wine, the official book club survival kit. Are you tired of pretending you read the book while secretly skimming Wikipedia five minutes before the meeting? Do you need just enough alcohol to sound intellectual but not so much you accidentally call Tolstoy a hack? With wine and wine, we've got you covered. Each kit includes a bottle of pretentious wine labeled, pairs well with the literary bullshit, pre-filled note cards,
00:00:58
Speaker
With vague, impressive phrases, like, it really explores the duality of man, and I love the pacing of the third act. And a single Xanax for when Karen won't stop mispronouncing, buildings Roman. Wine and wine, because every book club deserves a happy ending, whether it's in the novel or your glass.
'Endurance' Book Discussion Begins
00:01:18
Speaker
We are excited to have you join us this week as we close out the book endurance, the true story of Shackleton's incredible voyage to the Antarctic by Alfred Lansing. This week we read under discussing the final section book seven. This was actually my second time reading this book and I really enjoyed it. And I hope you guys enjoyed reading it as well. Uh, I thought this is awesome in a super fun winter read. Uh, each time I opened the pages, I felt like I was transported to the cruise sub Arctic, uh, or sub zero Arctic world, even though I live in Phoenix and it's like 65 right now.
00:01:48
Speaker
Let's get into a summary.
Challenges on South Georgia Island
00:01:49
Speaker
So we last left off with Shackles and his crew of five others landing on South George Island after a 17-day grueling trip to the Drake Passage on a 22-foot long boat. The remaining 22 men are left waiting on Elephant Island for the hopeful yet unlikely rescue. South George Island is this extremely remote island in the Arctic that happens to have one of the most southern whaling stations. Landing here means one step closer to rescue, only problem is they land it on the west side of the island and the port is on the east side, which they are unable to sail to.
00:02:16
Speaker
This means that the last step of the journey is to traverse the 29 mile distance over nearly 10,000 foot peaks of unknown terrain on foot. The crew splits up again, having three men stay back and three men, including Shackleton, start the long journey, bringing only food for six meals, a 50 foot rope and a carpenter's axe.
Rescue and Survival Journey
00:02:34
Speaker
It was the typical freezing, cold, strenuous, miserable, and unknown journey that we have become accustomed to in this expedition. The men hiked up multiple thousand foot mountains only to have to turn around and try another another route because of the sheer cliffs and impassable terrain.
00:02:47
Speaker
They used the rope to tie themselves together. So in case one fell, the others could save him. At one point, they found themselves atop a 4,500 foot peak as night approached and realized that slowly hiking down was not an option because of the cold. So Shackleton determined that the only option was to hold on to each other and slide down the hill, toboggan style.
00:03:08
Speaker
Finally, they see the whaling station. Shackleton and the two other men, who had been all but dead to the world, walk up to the station supervisor and the fearless leader of the endurance, simply states, my name is Shackleton. They had been gone at this point for nearly two years and had just completed a 36 hour trek across South Georgia Island.
00:03:25
Speaker
But the story does not end here. There are still three men stranded on the other side of the island and another 22 men 870 miles away. After a mere three days of rest, recovery and celebration, Shackleton sets out for Elephant Island. On a much larger and equipped ship now, they are able to cross the Drake Passage again but more easily and eventually get to the Castaways, although it takes multiple attempts to secondary the ice. So on August 30th, 1916, the remaining men were rescued and the whole ordeal lasted just under 21 months. Somehow all 28 men originally on board the endurance survived.
Leadership and Camaraderie
00:03:59
Speaker
So what were your guys' overall thoughts of this section and the book as a whole? I thought this section was the most exciting to read. I don't know if it was
00:04:13
Speaker
because it was more relatable just being on land versus the sea. But the journey of them traveling across those mountains was just insane. And I think there was a there was a different feel to it because they were they were being hurried. They were rushing the entire time. And you can tell that there's like if they stop, they will freeze to death or they will die of hunger.
00:04:42
Speaker
So reading about their endurance for that part alone after they had gone through the Drake Passage, experienced everything that they had done before was just incredible.
Endurance Reflections
00:04:54
Speaker
And then that part where they're climbing up the super steep mountains, Shackleton has to chisel out each step because it's just too icy and too steep. And then he's like, we got to slide down. It's our only hope.
00:05:11
Speaker
That was pretty epic. And then just the relief after this part ended, where they get to the whaling town, just realized that they made it and they got through, they pushed through. It was pretty incredible. Yeah, I enjoyed the last part of the book the most. And then overall, I enjoyed the book a lot. I think it just seems like a whole different life, whole different type of man.
00:05:40
Speaker
to be able to do those things. If I were to go on that expedition, I would be miserable the entire time. I just can't imagine going through what they went through and surviving, but pretty incredible story. And it didn't happen that long ago, just over a hundred years ago.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, I was curious. i you matt Matt, you mentioned the sliding down the hill. so In the book, it doesn't say how long it is and how long it took. It doesn't say anything more detail-wise. I was left wondering, ah so I was curious. i like I ended up looking it up. and It's all all estimates because you don't really know because of what they did, but what would you guys guess? How far?
00:06:19
Speaker
how How big of an elevation change do you think that they did in the slide? 3,000 feet. 2,000? So it was 1,000 to 1,500. That's what it i was thought to be. OK. But I mean, if you think about it, like so we did Grand Canyon.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I think that was 4,000 feet, 4,400 feet. So I thought, can you imagine sliding one third of that distance on ice insane? I mean, it would take, and I mean, it would take like a minute of sliding. I would think, I don't know, be fun. Matt, I agree with you. This chapter was definitely more Thrilling for me, I think there were parts of the book that maybe were a little um slower just due to where they were, whether it was kind of stranded at sea or on land kind of waiting. And this had the most suspense, you know, with me when I read, I kind of pre-look ahead to like, oh, how long is this section?
00:07:25
Speaker
And it was like eight pages. And I was like, okay, we're gonna figure out a lot in these next eight pages and the book's gonna end. And so I was just really enthralled with the story. It definitely was a quicker read at the end and just ah a good read overall too. I really did enjoy it. I mean, it to to your point, Stalen, it's crazy that nobody died. I mean, it's been like in the negatives here in Kansas City the past like week.
00:07:55
Speaker
And just being outside in the wind, it's like, oh my gosh, I can barely do like 30 minutes outside. And that's with gloves and you know extra layers. And these guys are already soaking wet and they're frozen. And it's just like, how did they do this for two for practically two years? And also to like journal throughout that whole process.
00:08:20
Speaker
Like, gosh, the last thing I would wanna do would be like, whip out a pen and try and document it and do a million other things too, but. I can't imagine what it felt like for Shackleton and those guys when they clean shaved, when they took that shower, when they basically got fresh for the first time. I mean, they had to have stunk in whatever shower they took one in.
00:08:50
Speaker
but Yeah, overall, I mean, I think, yeah, we we only know our limits based on what we put ourselves to. And so it's like our potential is so uncapped in what we can actually do.
00:09:06
Speaker
versus what we really put ourselves to. So if you think about it, you know, these guys probably got pretty dang close to maxing out the potential of what they were capable of. And you compare that to like everyday people, it's like, what are we realizing 10, 15% of our capacity in terms of like what we can actually accomplish under extreme conditions. It's just kind of interesting to think about makes you really want to push yourself harder and kind of test the limits and see what you're capable of.
Personal Challenges & Resilience
00:09:41
Speaker
know What challenge specifically for you of the survival story do you think would be the hardest part and why? Like what stage of whether it was sitting on the ice or waiting on Elephant Island or the hike at the end here crossing the Drake Passage, what do you think for you would be the hardest? Waiting. We talked about last time just sitting there waiting. Pretty brutal.
00:10:05
Speaker
Not knowing if anybody's coming back or not. I think that would be the hardest part for me because at least with Shackleton and the other two guys, they're at least marching forward with the destination. The other people are just sitting there.
00:10:18
Speaker
Well, I guess, you know, if that's to survive another day, maybe somebody will be there tomorrow. I don't know. That would be hard for me. Eating penguins and seals. Yeah.
Camaraderie vs. Isolation
00:10:29
Speaker
For me, I believe we talked about it last time too, but the part where they successfully crossed the Drake Passage and land is in sight, but they still can't land, that would be awful.
00:10:42
Speaker
It's because there's nowhere safe to land and the wind was driving in the wrong direction. It's like we did it. We crossed the sea and now we can't even get to land but and it's literally in sight and you can't do anything about it. Yeah, that would be so frustrating.
00:11:01
Speaker
I think one thing that's really interesting about this expedition is it seems like each step of the way, it got a little bit harder. So they got stuck on the ice and they had to survive on the ice in a boat. And then they had to leave the boat and had to survive in the ice and tents. And then they had to sail to an unknown island. And then they had to sail to a further away unknown island, these crazy waters. and And then after that, then they had to hike this crazy long hike.
00:11:28
Speaker
with these huge peaks. And you know when we think when we hear a 10,000-foot peak, we think about in Colorado where you start a hike and you're starting at 8,000 feet and you're hiking up to 10,000, but these are like peaks where you're starting at zero and having to go over something that's 8,000, 9,000 feet. And it's just crazy to think about that. And again, like Matt mentioned, it's like they had a race against the clock. They had no hardly in any food. They didn't bring anything to sleep. And so it's like, all right, we're either gonna make it there or we're gonna die.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, talk about the ultimate gamble there. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it would probably be the conditions or the just the frustration of being so close or thinking you're going in the right direction and then not, I mean, just kind of losing your patience or hope in those situations. I already have like a poor circulation.
00:12:24
Speaker
So it's like rain odds if you guys aren't familiar with that. So I get super cold pretty easily. And, uh, I would be pretty miserable in that for sure. But I'll tell you what wouldn't be hard is the camaraderie. Yeah.
00:12:39
Speaker
watching some of those survival shows like Alone, where they basically put you, you know, put 20 people out, they're all alone in different spots in these remote locations. Typically, why most people bow out of the competitions is because of being alone of having you know missing people having no human interaction sure you get to the guys or the people that last eighty a hundred days and their body starts to lose so much weight that it's unhealthy for them to continue to compete so they have to basically forfeit at that point
00:13:18
Speaker
because of their body condition but eighty percent of the people they bow out because of the isolation component but doing it with twenty guys. I mean can you imagine the next time they got together. You know after getting home kind of getting their lives back together. And then they meet up in like you know six months after imagine the stories they were telling.
00:13:45
Speaker
the camaraderie, the laughter. I mean, that's that's what made it. That's how they survived, you know, is getting each other through it. Yeah, for sure.
Personal Stories of Adversity
00:13:56
Speaker
Well, Rob, you kind of spoke on this a little bit earlier. um But to me, what really amazed me most about the story is the resilience of the crew, both mentally and physically, it truly inspires me.
00:14:06
Speaker
um seeing how these individuals, they really push themselves to like the outer edge of what seems humanly impossible, of what you know what humans can endure. um So on that note, what are some situations in your life that you've had to demonstrate extreme mental and physical resilience?
00:14:23
Speaker
So I was thinking about this earlier. There was a time when we did a nine hour drive from here to Denver or here to Colorado, whatever it is, eight and a half, nine hours. And we brought Wolf and he was struggling with a major panic attack in the car at like hour two.
00:14:48
Speaker
And it was the worst, one of the worst experiences of my life in terms of like trying to drive down the highway, Marianne wrestling him, he's scratching, he's going crazy in the back, he wants out of the car, we make stops, we get him back in, he doesn't sleep, just hair flying everywhere.
00:15:11
Speaker
I mean, really just unsafe driving um situation with just a dog trying to get in the middle of it all. And I mean, it was one of those moments where it was like, we're going to make this drive. It is literally going to be hell, but we're going to make it and we're going to get there.
00:15:33
Speaker
And I just remember that being like one of those situations that I don't know if you could pay me $5,000, $10,000 to do that again, just because of how miserable it was. Just one of those situations where it's like, oh, you can't wait for it to be over. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds tough. Did he eventually like settle like whenever you got like at all in the car? and not Not really. How long did it take him to come afterwards?
00:16:00
Speaker
I literally was in the backseat, not the backseat, the trunk of the Jeep, just trying to like calm him down just so that there was a space so that Marianne could drive in the front seat.
00:16:15
Speaker
But we had never done well, I had done many long drives with him before, but I don't know what was going on at that point. But and to what was cool is the whole reason he was coming out there was because we were going to do a hike outside of Boulder.
00:16:33
Speaker
for a couple of nights in the mountains. And Wolf had never been like on an overnight hike in the snow. It ended up being like a top three experience that we've had with him, which is particularly important right now as we record this just because he's really old and kind of on his last leg. But, you know, I wouldn't trade the experience of getting him out there and getting him in the wilderness. And I've never seen him just so on guard, ready to go. I mean,
00:17:01
Speaker
he was living his best life while we were there. So that made it all worth it um just to see him kind of in the wild like that. So I was going to say, so five years ago today would be my day five of seven for me and the ICU. So I took 12,000 milligrams of caffeine all at one time and thought that I was going to die. And I somehow didn't.
00:17:30
Speaker
which is a miracle, but that's the hardest thing I've ever i've ever had to overcome is just being that low. And shipping away, throwing away all the performance enhancing stuff that I was doing when I was powerlifting, stopping using cannabis, stopping drinking, doing counseling, taking in the correct medications, building a strong support system, establishing all these healthy habits to kind of never get back to that place again. The hardest thing I'll ever overcome. Love you brother.
00:18:04
Speaker
Happy new look at you now, man. yep Do you feel like you recall much of the ICU experience? Uh, most I remember I was having like, it's called a mixed episodes. You're like kind of manic, but kind of depressed at the same time.
00:18:20
Speaker
So it's kind of hazy that time. It's kind of hazy in general. And then I had 12 grams of caffeine in my system. no But I just remember like my dad coming home, knowing something was wrong and I couldn't lie to him. And then basically I remember him putting my jacket on me, driving to the hospital.
00:18:44
Speaker
getting there. And then I remember going into the room and I immediately started vomiting a bunch of black stuff. And then I don't remember much after that. And then I remember bits and pieces like of the ICU like waking up and having a ton of IVs in me. I had several multiple IVs in me. And ah they were just flushing me with different electrolytes. And I was just looking back on my blood work during that time. It's crazy.
00:19:11
Speaker
They were putting like pain medication into me, like anti-nausea medication into me, like all these different electrolytes. So I remember waking up and having to pee constantly because they were just I was just being flushed. No, so much fluid. stuff Yeah. and a Not really being able to sleep that well because it's the ICU and it's just the like lights and sound constantly. and And again, I had to get up and pee all the time.
00:19:41
Speaker
And then I remember a nurse, like when I started to feel a little bit better, I ended up, but I like did a couple of laps around the ICU with one of the nurses just to get up and walk around.
00:19:53
Speaker
That's about it, though. I don't remember much else. I remember the doctor coming in and saying that I had acute kidney failure and rhabdo in my lysis. And if the creatine kinase levels didn't start to go down, then I might have to have a double kidney transplant. yeah yeah crazy My kinase levels went up to like I think it was 8,000, which normal is between 0 to 200. So that's just a marker of kidney function. And mine was like, that's like, so I mean, you can't even do that math. It's a large number. It's a large number. But you know it's the the amazing thing is like walking away from that and not really having any serious long-term consequences.
00:20:44
Speaker
I mean, I even throw it in the chat GPT and it's like, Hey, is it crazy that I survived this? And it's like, yeah, I don't know how you did. It said it's like a miracle chat GPT said it was a miracle. You should ask chat DPT if they can give you a percentage. That's a good idea. I'm going to go do that now for sure. Chat GPT is like, are you sure you're actually alive? Yeah, right. Check this box if you are not a robot.
00:21:16
Speaker
We've net out of all the questions we've been asked. This is the craziest question. But no, like that, that whole experience and then just coming back from that to where I am now is for sure. Hardest thing I've ever overcome. yeahian it's Glad you're here. Thanks for you guys help. Absolutely brother. To be more of a downer this episode.
00:21:45
Speaker
The only thing I could think of is going through a miscarriage with my wife. We had one before we had any other kids and just the feeling of helplessness as a good guy and not being able to do anything at all to help your wife, the person that you love, go through such a hard time.
00:22:13
Speaker
physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, the only thing you can really do is just be there for her. You can't make it better. You know, as a guy, I think our tendency is to try to fix the problems, but you can't do that in that situation. You just have to be there, be there for emotional and spiritual support. But yeah, just the helplessness of not being able to do anything or fix anything.
00:22:43
Speaker
The the lasting sadness that it has on both of your lives I mean I get sad thinking about it still it was almost seven years ago now Yeah, I know a lot of other people go through similar situations and None of it's ever easy yeah Yeah. So, I mean, I think for me, one of the, I mean, one of the things that I would, that first comes to mind is going through mayoral conflict with Ruth probably been six years ago now um where we just had a period of a lot of conflict as a result of really my moral failures.
00:23:25
Speaker
I feel like it I had to really work hard at it. It did require a lot of resiliency to gain with trust back, to work through some kind of deep rooted issues that I had. I think I've always been someone that I've had a lot of pride. And I think that ah that was something that I had to work through a lot in that time period. And what was challenging in working through um when we were going through this conflict is that I had to like talk and confess my areas of failure and that kind of thing. And, you know, for me, it was super fruitful. um I mean, like I wouldn't change it, honestly, to this day. I feel like I'm a much less prideful person because of kind of the journey that I went through. I'd like to think I'm a little more humble. I'd like to think I'm a little more compassionate. um And I'm just super thankful for Ruth. I feel like the through the process, it made me appreciate Ruth more.
00:24:17
Speaker
you know ruth Ruth had some expectations of some ways that she um wanted me to change and grow, and those were in really good good areas. and I'm thankful for her in that, and it took a while to kind of get there, I would say. I would say it felt like about a year and a half of struggle for us both to kind of work through it, deal through it, and be really a happi happily married couple. And I think with that, ah what's interesting is I remember a lot early on when we were dealing with the conflict is that
00:24:52
Speaker
I remember just thinking like, I want things to go back to normal. I want things to go back to normal. And I can't remember who it was, but someone told me at one point that like normal wasn't good. Like normal was like you being a liar. That's something to say to me. Normal was like you having ah to work on things. And normal was your you and your wife not being connected and your wife not trusting you.
00:25:15
Speaker
And so that's where the first thing comes to mind. I feel like it definitely had to have a lot of kind of strength endurance to get through it. And I think on the back end, again, Ruth and I are better for it. Another thing I think about is with ah just having a kid, like I love Daphne. Daphne is really great, but there are some pretty challenging times. I feel like I remember there were some pretty challenging times in the first like six weeks of just like not getting sleep. And you're just super exhausted.
00:25:43
Speaker
and your child can't sleep and your child is crying and they're trying to look to you for comfort and you can't help them. That's like a pretty, pretty awful feeling. And, you know, similarly, it's another situation where you can kind of choose two ways to go with it, like use it and kind of grow through it and or essentially complain, get sad, get upset, you know, get, you know, feel like you're being like punished for what's a really a beautiful gift and um Really, it was just earlier, this not that this was like the most required, like the most like endurance so far, but over December, Ruth and I were both pretty sick, and it was the first time since we've been parents that we were both sick. So our daughter Daphne, ah she's... 18 months now, so she was like 17, 16, 17 months when this happened. And being a parent when you're both sick and your kid, thank goodness, wasn't sick, is like so hard. I think it made me like really respect single parents so much more because being sick and parenting is very challenging.
00:26:48
Speaker
I'm sure Matt, you can speak to that too. um But yeah, it was just super tough because it was like Ruth and I just felt like laying on the couch and laying in a bed all day and Daphne was like, let's play.
00:26:59
Speaker
And because you didn't, she would be like crying and screaming and yeah. Yep. Been there. this is tough I think I told Ruth there was like one week with it where I was like, I honestly think that that was like the hardest week of being a parent so far was when we were both, we were both sick for about two weeks, but one of the weeks in particular was really challenging. I think the hardest thing I've done endurance wise was run a five 30 mile high school. Yeah, buddy.
00:27:27
Speaker
ah so Taste and blood. That's crazy. That's so slow for like, you know, some of the best runners. It's so slow. It's just crazy. I mean, you feel like you're flying. Other than that, I'm more of a strength guy, you know, get used to deadlift 700 pounds. You know,
00:27:48
Speaker
shot up I haven't been waiting to say that for a way too long. Are you sure it was in six days? I feel like, you know, we've got the Instagram page. I feel like I'm going to say, like, we got to prove it. I feel like we got to have a video of this happening.
00:28:06
Speaker
used to he doesn't post those heavys I don't post anything anymore because I don't have an account anymore. And we're not going to start with the books. All right. Last question. So Shackleton displays extreme ownership and how shortly after arriving to the safety, he embarks again to save the rest of the men that were stranded. I would think that nobody would blame him at this point if he didn't join for this journey, but yet he leads the rescue mission.
00:28:33
Speaker
What were you guys thoughts on this? And how do you feel like we can apply this to our lives? I mean, there was no ah way around it. I mean, they had to go back, right? But you think that he had to you think I would think that someone else could maybe I'm wrong. I don't think at that point, at that point it's like running a marathon and stopping at mile 25. It's like he had gone all this way. So it's like,
00:29:08
Speaker
He's the kind of guy that was going to see it through. It's not like, all right, guys, I got you half, you know, I got you 98% of the way there. I'm, I'm a chill here. Come back and get me when you get the boys, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you probably, you're probably right. I mean, to me, but it just seemed like he wouldn't have had to, but maybe I'm wrong in assuming that dude, I would have been taking a bubble bath.
00:29:36
Speaker
It's so funny that when they could, when the ship was coming at them, the author said like, and they could tell because of his square frame.
00:29:47
Speaker
or whatever that they knew it was Shackleton just based on his body type, which kind of reminds me of, you know, in college when you'd be walking to him from class and you'd like see a brother way off in the distance and you could recognize him based on his walk alone.
00:30:06
Speaker
Like, we all have our own walks. Like, I remember Shane Sullivan, I could spot his walk from 50 yards and I'd be like, that's Shane Sullivan just by how that guy's walking. Maybe, maybe I was the only one that... No, I know what you're talking about. Where are you looking when you're watching them walk, Rob? Just the pep in the step, boy. Is it the hips that tell a story? It's the whole motion. I have heard the hips don't lie. You know, as they say, the motion...
00:30:36
Speaker
in the motion. Do you think that he I mean he obviously has a strong sense of responsibility for these guys so he has to go back and get them and it's like an honor thing almost like he's the captain going down with the ship type thing like he's got to go back. I would think so too he has a responsibility to these men that he was captain of for however long it took So I'm not really surprised that he went back immediately. I'm a little surprised that he went back and failed. Well, like five times, something like that. Yeah. All the new ships that he got kept breaking. Dude, bro got ships from like five different countries. It's like, who is he calling?
00:31:22
Speaker
ah Well, where are you going to find another endurance ship? That was the best one that was made. I know. I know. But it's just like, what did he door dash Uber eats this thing? Like, yo, bring me another ship. That's exactly what happened. Any other thoughts on that or kind of application to life? With great responsibility comes great responsibility.
00:31:52
Speaker
Rob, you just you're just a poet tonight, aren't you? I'll say what my wife's grandparents told us at our wedding. They were the ones who had been married the longest. You know the thing where you're like, have you been married for one year? Stay standing. Five years, stay standing. I think there are 50 or 60 years. And so her grandpa's advice was do what she says.
00:32:20
Speaker
And her advice was hang in there. Just hang in there. There you go. That's it. There you have it. ah you have it All the advice you need as a married man. You've been doing as she says, Matt. Maybe. I hope so. Any other thoughts on the book in general?
00:32:43
Speaker
I really enjoyed having the pictures with it. Like I said, it it made it really enjoyable that to read. And it helped break apart the book for me. Yeah, my toddler is like the same thing. I think that this is a book that we should teach.
00:33:02
Speaker
in elementary school, because I think that it really shows human capacity in a way that I think a lot of kids don't get, they don't ever learn. And so I think you reach a certain age and then you're talking shows this and it's almost like you're like, Oh, you pass the window in which you could have really like kind of pushed yourself. Cause I mean, I really think that obviously this is very physically challenging, but I think the mental ability to get through something like this, I think is really what's amazing.
00:33:32
Speaker
I think this book should have replaced should of replaced Jane Eyre in AP Literature class in high school. That way I might have actually read a book. Yeah, that are like aon height nine eleven or or Lord of the Flies. It's like nobody cares about the conch. Tell them about Shackleton.