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Episode 60 - Overcome Gridlock (Principle 6)
22 Plays8 days ago
Stehlin leads the discussion of Principle 6: “Overcome Gridlock” from The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, PhD.
2:12 - “The One Thing” - Robb shares his experience going through some of the book’s activities this month.
4:18 - “They Don’t Make ‘Em Like They Used To” - Common 90s phrases
Principle 6 Discussion - “Overcome Gridlock”
8:10 - What are some dreams or core values that you or your spouse hold that have led to conflict in the past?
25:11 - What are some ways that you’ve sought to overcome some unsolvable problems in the past? What have you found to be successful?
Next week, we’ll discuss Principle 7: “Create Shared Meaning” and the Afterward (pgs. 260-284).
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Until next week, read, reflect, and connect.
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Transcript
Introduction to Books Brothers Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
to the Books Brothers podcast, the podcast where longtime friends spread across the country reconnect to the pages of a good book. Each episode, we dive into what are reading, sharing our thoughts and perspectives, all while enjoying a few laughs along way.
00:00:17
Speaker
Whether you're a big reader or just here for discussion, we're glad to have you join us as we explore insightful topics, narratives, all while connecting each week. I'm Adam. Flez. I'm Garrett.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm Matt. And I'm Rob. We are excited to have
Current Reading: 'The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work'
00:00:31
Speaker
you join us this week. We are currently reading The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman and Nan Sluver. This week we read and we'll be discussing principle six, overcome gridlock.
00:00:39
Speaker
But before we get into discussing that, let's take a break for a word from this episode's sponsor.
Humorous Interlude: BroSpeak Ad
00:00:45
Speaker
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00:00:52
Speaker
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00:01:04
Speaker
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Speaker
She's just a friend means I'm emotionally invested and terrified. Wanna lift means I need connection, but I'll only accept it under a barbell. It even features silent car ride mode with translating four minutes of brooding into I'm not okay, but let's not make it weird.
00:01:36
Speaker
So if your emotional fluency peaks at bet, it's time to level up. Bro speak because somewhere beneath that shrug is a whole lot going on. There you go. It's funny and yet also deep at the same time.
00:01:52
Speaker
So what I'm hearing is that men need to process emotions more. Is that what? I think so. Yeah. It's really for me, honestly. That is really. Well, no now we don't have to because it's absolutely for us. Yeah, exactly. There you go.
Rob's Experience with Fondness and Admiration
00:02:06
Speaker
yeah So for the one thing. So when we talk about takeaways several weeks back, Rob mentioned that.
00:02:14
Speaker
ah Him and Marianne were going to be doing the seven-week course in fondness and admiration that John Gottman had recommended. So Rob, if you want to just speak to little about how that's been going. Yeah, so to clarify, I'm just doing it, but, and so I'm reflecting upon different prompts from the book for a daily kind of exercise, and I'm journaling based on those prompts of fondness and admiration. So, you know, there'll be things like,
00:02:42
Speaker
Think about a time when you surprised your wife and then it says like, go surprise your wife tonight. um Or it'll be, you know your wife isn't perfect. Name one thing that has gotten in the way, but that you've come to appreciate over time. Or you know ah reflect and reminisce on your wedding day and things of that nature. So it's just been good to...
00:03:07
Speaker
to you know I think the chapter was really about like embracing your shared history. And so like that can help you recall certain events in your life, in your marriage, in your relationship that you hold near and dear.
00:03:23
Speaker
And this is just you know there to help us recall those moments in ah in a unique way. Just because you know when there's times when maybe you're in a low in your marriage and your wife or partner can do no right.
00:03:40
Speaker
ah They seem to be doing everything wrong to you or or that you perceive them just because you're in a marital rut. This is an exercise that kind of helps bring out the fondness and and the admiration for your spouse that you you do have, and you certainly once had, and it can kind of help that.
00:03:59
Speaker
i I'm not doing it because we're in a marital rut. It's just a big exercise that I was like, oh, I want to come back to this and actually do this. And so I'm doing it with Lent and it kind of aligns perfectly for the week. So yeah, it's been good.
00:04:14
Speaker
That's awesome, man. Thanks for sharing.
Nostalgia: 90s Phrases and Memories
00:04:16
Speaker
Next, let's talk about how they don't make them like they used to. In this section, we like to reminisce about what it was like growing up in the 90s. So for today's episode, I wanted to revisit some of the common phrases and sayings from our childhood.
00:04:27
Speaker
What are some of the common phrases that you all can think of? And yes, please use them in a sentence.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just chilling. Yeah. Hey, you want to ride your bike to the pool?
00:04:42
Speaker
i mean, two of the ones that I thought of like right away were tight and sweet. When something was cool, you'd be like, oh man, those are some really tight cargo shorts. And you didn't mean that they were like tight on them. You meant they were cool.
00:04:56
Speaker
Home skill. It's a good one. And crunk. Yeah. Yeah. well Well, John was coming into his own. I don't think I ever actually used it, but I remember on fleek. That was a stupid one.
00:05:08
Speaker
Was that? I feel like what when do you feel like that was popular? I feel like that was like late high school. Yeah, probably. Probably late high school. One that I thought of that it just made me chuckle was when you're like signing a kid's yearbook.
00:05:23
Speaker
people would write hack s do you guys remember that so h-a-k-a-s you guys don't know that have a good so they would yeah have a kicking kiss summer now have have a kick and ah remember like just being younger and not knowing what that meant and but thinking like why did all the kids write this in my yearbook but it is kind of funny think about wonder if that's i feel like that there's no way that that phrase is still being used maybe it is i don't know where what what's funny is what i thought you were where I thought you were going with that was remember when people would sign your yearbook and there would be that one guy who wrote, i signed your crack in between the two. thought that's what you were going to say.
00:06:05
Speaker
oh yeah, I know. So, you know, Adam, you you've mentioned before how like i dyed my hair the one year. so there's one yearbook. I remember this was a couple of years ago. Ruth and I were, for whatever reason, going through old yearbooks and all people who like signed them and stuff.
00:06:18
Speaker
And so there's one yearbook and I think it's from seventh grade where like tons people wrote like, I love your hair. Your hair is so great. All these kinds of things. And Ruth was like, oh my gosh, like people really liked your hair. And I didn't realize until it weighs in. It was like I had dyed it like yellow like the day before.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. Your frosted tips are now like Flezz's 700 pounds. But Da Bomb?
00:06:47
Speaker
Oh, man, that was Da Bomb. That's a good one. and i feel like I think that makes me... Bomb.com. Ooh. She says debomb.com. Do you know what debomb reminds me of too?
00:06:59
Speaker
What? Do you what debomb reminds me of too? The greatest play in NFL Blitz. Yes. Oh, hell yeah, dude. Debomb, man. That was a guaranteed touchdown every time. Except bill if you're playing Matt.
00:07:15
Speaker
That's true. Against Matt. It was the worst feeling playing that when you had a breakaway. And for the game was just rigged where if you were going to fumble up around you, it it would slow you down. yeah And the guy is like, there's no way.
00:07:31
Speaker
Not if you were on fire, the guys would drag on you. You'd be dragging them behind you. Just got to play better. I still have that game. Do you? Yeah, on Dreamcast. What system?
00:07:43
Speaker
Do you have a Dreamcast? Yeah. Oh man. I kind of forget about that one. Am I living under a rock? What's a dream cast? Sega. That was like, that was like one. Yeah. My bad. My bad.
00:07:55
Speaker
The first one that had discs. I remember playing like Tekken on that. Like street. It was, uh, was like street fighter. Yeah. Street fighter. Crazy taxi.
00:08:07
Speaker
Hmm.
00:08:09
Speaker
All right, well, let's move forward then.
Understanding Relationship Gridlock
00:08:12
Speaker
ah So as mentioned before this week, we read principle six, overcome gridlock. We discussed the concept of concept of gridlock a few weeks ago, but gridlock is reached when you see the following signs.
00:08:22
Speaker
You've had the same argument multiple times and no resolution. Both parties are unable to address the issue with humor, empathy. The conflict has become increasingly polarizing and compromise seems impossible because it feels like you'd be giving up something important and may even go against your core beliefs or values. Okay.
00:08:38
Speaker
a Gridlock can happen on the topics of religion, finances, desires to have or not have kids, as well as career, but it also can happen happen on seemingly less deep topics like cleanliness of the home or how free time is spent.
00:08:50
Speaker
Gottman mentions that ultimately the goal is to avoid gridlock by being in tune with your spouse's values, desires, and dreams, but sometimes you find yourself in a situation where neither party is willing to move on their stance. He explains that this happens because we feel we are fighting for something deeper than the actual argument taking place.
00:09:05
Speaker
We are fighting for our core values or our personal dreams. An example that he gives a couple that has become gridlocked on the topic of cleanliness of the home. The wife wants a more clean and tidy home and the husband wants to feel more free in his own home.
00:09:18
Speaker
The wife grew up in a chaotic home that was never clean and her parents were not present to take responsibility for making meals or other domestic activities. So from a really young age, she she had all the responsibilities of of taking care of our younger siblings and, um you know, making making sure she was at places on time.
00:09:35
Speaker
Her core value or dream is to not have her kids or family have the same experience that she had. On the other hand, the husband grew up in a home where his mom was overly concerned about appearances and the home looking immaculate.
00:09:46
Speaker
As a result, he was never comfortable in his home. His dream or desire is to feel free and comfortable in his home and not be overly concerned about chores. So in this situation, each spouse's dream situation is in contrast with the other spouse, which has caused gridlock.
00:10:00
Speaker
So we likely all have stories of gridlock ourselves, but the goal is be able to communicate about these differences and acknowledge your partner's dreams and through that seek compromise.
Personal Stories of Gridlock
00:10:08
Speaker
When facing gridlock, Gottman encouraged us to seek to understand and respect our partner's dreams and core values, even when they might be different than ours.
00:10:16
Speaker
So for you guys, what are some of the dreams or core values that you or your partner have that you've seen lead to conflict, potentially gridlock in the past?
00:10:27
Speaker
So one of the conflicts that Emily and I had happened when we were more newlyweds and it was the topic of when to have children.
00:10:38
Speaker
So Emily was the type of person who wanted to children pretty much immediately. She would have been perfectly happy with having kids right after marriage. And I knew that about her going into it, which was fine.
00:10:53
Speaker
I did not want to have kids. right after marriage i wanted to have some more time just to spend with her get to know her build our relationship first um for emily being a mom has been her greatest desire for her entire life and so just kind of talking through that when we were newlyweds it didn't necessarily cause conflict but it's something that we didn't agree on and It probably caused both of us anxiety and worry that we didn't communicate well at that time.
00:11:29
Speaker
And it was a lot of talks of when to have kids, when should we have kids, when should we start trying, because... Everyone knows when you start trying, it's very possible that you will not get pregnant right away.
00:11:44
Speaker
It could be months. It could be years. You just never know. And i had heard from the people, friends, ah influential people in my life that you probably should have some more time just you two being married before you have kids.
00:12:01
Speaker
And so that's where I was leaning towards. Again, it didn't really cause conflict, but There's a little bit of tension every time kids were brought up or yeah other friends had kids and people our age starting having kids.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's like, okay, when are going to kids? So yeah, that was one thing that maybe caused a little bit of gridlock in our relationship. I can share an example. That's perhaps a career based example, something that we would experience often at the beginning of Brooke's career.
00:12:34
Speaker
When she was in medical school, she started medical school. That was her our second year of marriage. And then residency. So these are time commitments that are extremely intense.
00:12:45
Speaker
Residency was like an average of 75 to 80 hours a week of work. That was the average. There were a lot of times where I would Feel that lack a better term neglected.
00:12:57
Speaker
So I think when he's talking in the book about what are your dreams, there's a lot of things like I want to feel like I'm enough that you value me more than anything else.
00:13:12
Speaker
And to a certain extent. Right. That I'm what comes first in your priorities. And there were a lot of occasions where I didn't feel that way in something that our marriage counselor has helped us identify when working through gridlock.
00:13:28
Speaker
is something she calls an infinity loop, where if my wife does something that can upset me, I'll get flooded. I can get upset and be defensive and respond a certain way.
00:13:41
Speaker
And that response is something that can trigger my wife and upset her, cause her to get defensive and respond a certain way. And then we're caught in this infinity loop where we're not actually making progress towards a solution.
00:13:57
Speaker
And I think a lot of times that is what we experienced with her career. I've always been supportive of her career. I've always, at times I've pushed her more than she's pushed herself. i i don't know if I've,
00:14:11
Speaker
ever shared it's not like it's a super big secret but she actually she tried to quit med school uh in her second like she actually tried to quit in the contract payoff i believe it was a miscalculation but it was close to like a million dollars and so it's like oh we're we're in this for the next decade whether you want to be a doctor or not So it like forced her to stay in and she got other help. She was dealing with a lot of anxiety and stuff like that. She got the help that she needed and she's a great doctor. so I'm really glad she's in it. So there were, there's always been the support.
00:14:46
Speaker
It's more of like Flezz's funny ad that actually has a lot of serious. I don't think I did a great job of,
00:14:57
Speaker
introspection and understanding what were my dreams underneath. And yeah there was a lot of, Hey, I i feel like I'm really carrying the torch in a lot of ways to keep the house in order or the marriage going.
00:15:12
Speaker
fill in the blank, domestic duties, financial duties, whatever, got to say duty in an episode. And then it didn't feel reciprocated. And while there was support on my end and understanding the time involvement on her end, there was still some elements where I was like, I need, I need something like a date night or things like that.
00:15:33
Speaker
And I would, i would grow impatient. I wouldn't respond well. And then I would kind of revert to my defensive protective tendencies, you know, one of the four horsemen to protect my hurtness.
00:15:47
Speaker
And and that would hurt her and make her feel like she's not supported in her career and in the marriage. And the infinity loop would continue on. So that was a gridlocked issue that we've thankfully worked through.
00:16:00
Speaker
And I'm also grateful she's not in medical school or residency anymore. It helps when she's only working 40 hours a week. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. isn and It is nice when you can look back at the thing and it's like, okay, we're not in that as much anymore. Like the one I would say early on in our marriage, that would be, it was something that I feel like my dream wasn't being like achieved. And so I've always been pretty active.
00:16:26
Speaker
And so that was something that I always like wanted to be really important in both my life, but also my spouse's wife or a spouse's life. But, you know, Ruth grew up and she was a really good athlete. You know, she was all state and track and played volleyball, swam, went to state for swim She's really good at all these sports and sports.
00:16:47
Speaker
Really, by the time we were married, fitness was something that wasn't like a huge part of her life. She would play sports if there was an opportunity, but exercising routinely is wasn't something that was really a desire of hers. and or it was a desire, but she had the desires that went out. And that was something probably the first two, three years in a marriage where feel like it was like a recurring frustration I had where I would probably know a lot of times not in the best ways,
00:17:11
Speaker
bring guilt upon that topic of like, I, this was my hope is that we'd have this very active lifestyle and maybe we'd be really adventurous and such and go out and do these big backpacking trips and um all these kinds of things. And it really took me honestly, like maturing, i would say for some of those kinds of things to go away. And I think too, to see just that it's okay for her to have different passions, desires. And so It's something that I would say did cause some tension and through time, it's something now or, know, not an issue at all anymore. And, um, but it was definitely for me for a while, definitely something where I was like, feel like my dream wasn't realized in that, but kind of on the opposite, I would say. So, um,
00:17:52
Speaker
Ruth grew up in a family where her dad is like, he's just really wise. He's very biblically sound and he's very much like the spiritual leader. And i think I've always aspired to be that in our relationship, but I feel like just looking at their, their marriage, I feel like i fall short in that. And so that that's one area i sometimes where know, and at least in the past that she's kind of wanting me to like take a more active role in spiritual leadership and,
00:18:18
Speaker
I know I haven't done that been the best about doing that for her. And so with a lot of those subject talks about where communication can be essential, I think, for some of the things that i that I'm describing, it seems like it took time.
00:18:31
Speaker
But I think if we had better tools to communicate, maybe these would have been overcome sooner. so Nice. Yeah, I'll be real quick here. One of Marianne's dreams ever since she was a little girl is to sing and perform, and she is Broadway caliber. I mean, she could be on Broadway today. Easy.
00:18:51
Speaker
easy And so that's always been, cause we met because she was in the middle of the Atlantic working for carnival and then COVID happened and then she came home and then she met me, someone who's stable and has roots in the Midwest and wants to start a family and get a home. And that was not in Marianne's path or her future.
00:19:18
Speaker
Certainly not when, right before COVID happened, right? Like that wasn't something she was aspiring to do. But one thing that I've always told her ever since we started dating and she was very honest about like, hey, I have these dreams and you know, these dreams are really like, I'm not sure if you guys have heard the term soul ties before, but it's like something so deep ingrained in your soul that like, it's like your grandma or like her grandma or her family saying like, don't,
00:19:50
Speaker
don't let you quit. Like what we won't let you quit on this dream of yours. So it's like they stunt you and your 13 year old self and your, your 18 year old self. And, and so do you. And it's like, I'm doing this no matter what, it's kind of like at an all, all costs kind of mentality, but it's, so it can come from a good place of like,
00:20:11
Speaker
You love it so much. And then that's for her. But I've always been very honest about like, hey, you can have both. You can be a wife and you can be a performer. And so um that looks differently now just because she's not in Broadway at Broadway, but she's Staying very actively employed here um with theater. And she gets to have both, which is really cool. She actually, I don't think I've told any of you guys, but there's a Catholic high school two minutes up the road from us.
00:20:44
Speaker
And they were looking for a theater director because... their directors leaving. Marianne has some choreography experience, some leadership experience, but she's never directed herself.
00:20:59
Speaker
um But they offered her a part-time position, which is really cool because now she gets to merge her love for God and the faith into theater, which have been like two starkly like different things that you never would think would be able to be merged together, especially with just the theater scene being super liberal and the faith scene being super conservative.
00:21:25
Speaker
That's been a dream of hers for a long time too. And and it's just cool to see that the continued yeses towards a relationship with me, with God, has like allowed her to realize different dreams.
00:21:42
Speaker
And I've had to remain open and available to supporting her in that. And we looked at Chicago before we bought the house and we we would have been ready to move there if if we both felt it, um but we didn't.
00:21:54
Speaker
we We kind of ruled out New York just based on the extremity of it. But yeah, I mean, hers is just wanting to continue to showcase her talents and and sing for for the gift that God has given given her. And then the dream with me is just to be able to have a family and and have a place. And it's kind of cool to watch how some, ah at times those two things really rubbed up against each other and created for very uncomfortable conversations, but now they they mer they're merging together. And I would still support her if she wanted to go do like a three month stint at some theater in Washington or or whatever, which,
00:22:41
Speaker
She's had opportunities come, but we've just turned them down because they weren't right at the time. But that's kind of what we we've dealt with probably the most. That's cool. can think of an example from today with Sarah and i For some reason, was like I needed a vacation. I'm like really kind of burnt out and just haven't taken time off since.
00:23:02
Speaker
our trip to the Grand Canyon in October last year. But, uh, was looking at some cabins in Arkansas for a couple days and since Sarah, there's some pictures and, then I said,
00:23:16
Speaker
Oh, it looks like they have an opening from April 30th to May 2nd. And she sent that kind of, it was kind of a passive aggressive text of like, oh, that's like your birthday, my birthday weekend.
00:23:28
Speaker
But she, she was implying that like, I shouldn't schedule it then because we're supposed to be doing something then, but she's being a little bit passive aggressive about it. And I called her out on that.
00:23:39
Speaker
and I was like, but we got into this little argument about like, I hate my birthday. i have always hated my birthday. So like me being away for my birthday is not a big deal to me.
00:23:52
Speaker
to her, it's like she the underlying dreams here are, I want to go away because I've never taken a trip, a solo trip, you know, by myself with Nova. It's like this hike adventure thing.
00:24:07
Speaker
So that's like the dream there, I think for me, the dream for her is wanting to have somebody to celebrate milestones with. And so our dreams are kind of clashing at the same time. And obviously we were able to, you know, resolve that.
00:24:23
Speaker
But i don't know. I think that's a pretty good example of like the underlying reason why you want to do something. um yeah Kind of clashing with each other and then a kind of resolving the issue. But So moral story is to schedule the trip another time. exactly Adam, you kind of hit on it there some, but I really enjoyed how Gottman kind of talked about this concept of dreams and how when we have these big disc disagreements, it has to do with like,
00:24:51
Speaker
our dreams, our expectations and values and things. and I think back to a lot of the recurring stuff that Ruth and I've had and everything we we talked about there, it was just like one person thought it was going to be, you know, all you guys' examples.
00:25:03
Speaker
You one person saw one vision for their future and the other person saw something slightly different. yeah I think it's about kind of talking through and working through those things. For sure.
Resolving Gridlock: Gottman's Steps
00:25:12
Speaker
Well, so ah Gottman ends this section with giving the reader an outline for a conversation where you and your partner will work on a conflict that has become a gridlock. It goes as follows.
00:25:21
Speaker
Step one, explore the dream. Seek to understand your partner's why behind their stance. Help them to understand your why. It is crucial not to criticize with this step or blame or bad mouth.
00:25:32
Speaker
So seek to understand any core values or beliefs that might be tied up in the issue at hand. Step two is to soothe. Be mindful of how each of you are reacting to each other in the conversation. If flooding occurs, then you might need to take a short break from the conversation, either separately or doing activities together that you both enjoy and calms you.
00:25:49
Speaker
Step three is to reach a temporary compromise. Each partner should consider their non-negotiable areas and also areas where they are willing to be flexible for their partner. Then come up with a temporary solution that both parties agree to.
00:26:01
Speaker
Since gridlocked issues are often unsolvable problems, the compromise does not have to be permanent, and it's best to plan a time in the future where the temporary compromise will be reassessed. And step four, express your thankfulness and gratitude towards each other.
00:26:13
Speaker
Working on unsolved problems is not easy and it shows your partner that you are in for the long haul. and Show your partner that you are thankful that they care enough to work through these gridlocked issues. So I think that this is a really great framework for dealing with ah some of these unsolved problems that we experience.
00:26:28
Speaker
And I personally hope to implement a process like this in the future. it can take definitely a ton of patience and intentionality, but it's important because marriage is
Hosts' Strategies for Conflict Resolution
00:26:38
Speaker
important. So with that being said, how have you guys, you know so we each kind of shared a little about some of maybe the gridlock experiences that we have, but what are some of the ways that you all have sought to overcome some of these unsolvable problems in the past?
00:26:51
Speaker
And what have you found to be successful? Has it looked like this approach or is it look different? Yeah, I think whenever Emily and I have had conflicts, the steps that we've gone through, i mean, we didn't have them laid out like this, but they look somewhat similar.
00:27:10
Speaker
We probably don't do step one, explore the dream in depth. We probably need to get better at understanding the root of the problem, and understanding the problem in the moment and processing feelings.
00:27:25
Speaker
I think now we need to get to the why of the problem. But number two, soothing. i think that's something we've done since we've been together.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think it's just in our personalities, really, where we're not great at dealing with conflict in the moment. So if one of us is feeling flooded, then we will step out of the room, go to somewhere else where we can take some deep breaths, process a little bit, maybe cry a little bit. It's mostly Emily.
00:27:55
Speaker
Just kidding. It's me. But then after a while, after we're soothed, then we can come back together and talk about it without those high emotions, without anger or bitterness towards each other. It's a very calm conversation overall, very respectful.
00:28:15
Speaker
And just working through it, talking through it, and then... Afterwards, once we've talked through most of the things, we either express gratitude towards one another. a lot of times we end up praying with each other and just taking it to God.
00:28:31
Speaker
So I think having the steps laid out is very helpful. And it's something that I need to be mindful of in the future. Just have those steps in my mind. It's something to memorize and hold on to for future conflicts.
00:28:44
Speaker
I'm probably not going to be thinking about this in the moment. To be honest. yeah Oh, I'm in a conflict right now. I need to explore the dream. Step one.
00:28:55
Speaker
yeah No, that's not going to be happening. It's ah is something that's going to take practice and you have to actually do it before you're going to be good at it.
00:29:06
Speaker
Otherwise, you're not going to be able to think of these steps in the moment, at least not for me. Yeah, I think I totally agree with you, Matt. And it's like, I think we mentioned this was something else a couple weeks ago where it's like, yeah, it'd be nice if you had this right in front of you before it. But I feel like i do this thing where i ask maybe i ask like if it was written down it's the right question to ask but it's the way that i ask it and the defensiveness that i have or like the accusatoriness that i have with it or i'm like yeah that's because i i mean i think we're all probably a little bit like this where
00:29:42
Speaker
Maybe it's just me, but I think I let things bother me for too long and then it builds up and then it's like a lot of emotion. Whereas if I would have like addressed it initially, have been lot less emotion.
00:29:54
Speaker
Totally. Yeah, my stapler.
00:29:59
Speaker
I've never burned any buildings down though. I can say that. We can just talk about it because I know it's a thing, even if it's not in this group, but I would say ah gridlock issue is just sex.
00:30:12
Speaker
So the typical friction point is frequency, but with therapy and being able to talk through the dream dreams behind it, there's a lot of On my end, wanting, I've said it before, but wanting to feel wanted, which kind of gives some background on the med school residency experience where it was like, hey, do you have five or 10 minutes for me?
00:30:44
Speaker
You have all this time for your med schools, whether it was sexual or not. And there was just that element of not feeling that way. And I think that's a lot of, um there's a lot of different things. It's too much to unpack in one evening, but there were just a lot of like, again, talking about the emotions, I think that's, ah and just being honest, I think that's another misconception is that one of the things I like about sex is not just getting off, right? Which is the stereotype guys just got to get off, but the actual talking communication and
00:31:26
Speaker
feeling connection in a lot of different ways. So there's that element of wanting to just be connected and feeling desire, feeling wanted.
00:31:37
Speaker
And when that doesn't happen, then I can look at metrics. So it's like, all right, I'll feel wanted if we have sex two times a week. And Brooke's like, I work 80, 100 hours a week. How is that possible?
00:31:51
Speaker
Like I'm too tired. I can't even like, I mean, I'm exaggerating. So I can't even feed myself when I get home. i just crawl into bed and go to sleep. So then there's elements of we're never going to get over this. And I think with counseling, talking about it, and then another thing, having other relationships. So like the book club, like you guys, there's like, we connect in a lot of different ways.
00:32:15
Speaker
And we can't just have all of our eggs in one basket, which is our spouse, to fill our emotional and relational cup. That's really good.
00:32:27
Speaker
It's hard to fully unpack that gridlock issue, but no one's talked about it. And yet it's like objectively the number one issue, that and money. So someone's got to talk about it. So I will talk about it.
00:32:42
Speaker
And I would say we haven't arrived We made a lot of progress. And then then Matt, I mean, you all can attest since your wives have had babies.
00:32:53
Speaker
Actually, okay. I know I don't want to take up too much more time, but I think pregnancy and having a child is proof that you don't have to have sex all the time to feel full, right? I mean, like the doctor says, no sex for at least six weeks. And at least with our first kid, it was a lot longer than that. Just with how much time.
00:33:13
Speaker
You didn't know that? No, I didn't know that. I'm just being goofy. that Oh, you did know that. Okay. So I did not know that. No. Yeah. Yeah. Like six weeks just to heal up. And then there's tears. And yeah, there's definitely like, what's your expectation? What's mine? Why is that expectation there? And then not taking that personally, because I think that's the hardest part is like, hey, if you don't want to have sex as much as I want to,
00:33:40
Speaker
that means you aren't like interested in me ah or you don't love me, whatever, insert the feeling of response and understanding that that may not actually necessarily be it.
00:33:52
Speaker
There may be other things going on on her end that we just need to soothe, believe the best about each other, understand what's going on, figure out how to reach temporary compromises and yeah, maybe get help. Maybe go see a counselor, talk with your buddies.
00:34:07
Speaker
but You have to, protect that pretty well. It's not like a casual thing when I say chat with your buddies, but yeah. And then expressing thankfulness and gratitude. I think that goes a long way when you focus on the quality of the relationship, those other conversations about sex and you know, what to do during sex and frequency and stuff, those conversations go a little bit easier.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah. That's really good, Garrett. Appreciate sharing. Obviously a lot of good and deep stuff in there. i think one thing just to hit on even further is you talked about specifically just like the importance of...
00:34:44
Speaker
like having relationship with other friends. And so, you know, both as the husband having, you know, guy friends and your wife having female friends be able to like get into deeper stuff with. And I know there was a men's group used to be involved with. And that was something that was like hit on all the time about just don't, you know,
00:35:05
Speaker
One of the major causes of conflict in marriage, too, can be trying to have your wife or spouse to fulfill all your needs and not being able to be open with other guys about stuff. And i mean, I think I've seen that over and over again. And I feel like I even even personally feel now whenever it's been a while when I've connected with some people.
00:35:24
Speaker
guy friends where I feel like, oh man, I, I sense that I'm like trying to fill that cup with Ruth when ah she can't. So that's good. Thanks, man. Yeah, man.
Episode Conclusion and Next Steps
00:35:34
Speaker
ah Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Books Brothers podcast. Join us next week as we close out the book, Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work with Principle 7, Create Shared Meaning.
00:35:42
Speaker
Garrett will be leading our discussion and hope you can listen in. If you've enjoyed listening or benefited from our conversation, please subscribe, give us a review and share with a friend that you want to connect with. Lastly, we would love to hear your thoughts. You can reach us by email at connect at booksbrotherspodcast.com or on Instagram booksbrotherspodcast.
00:35:58
Speaker
Until next week, read, reflect, and connect.