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Is Your Teen Calculus Ready? The 'Five-Four' Rule for College Prep
89 Plays5 days ago
Are you sitting at the kitchen table with your teen this week, staring at a course registration sheet and wondering, "Does this actually matter for college?" In Part 2 of our deep dive into the college admissions landscape, host Laura Ollinger continues her conversation with Jenna Schebell, founder of The College Navigators. While our last episode focused on the "limbo" of senior year, today we’re looking at the strategic foundation every student needs to build long before they hit "submit" on a college application.
The "Five-Four" Rule & The Calculus Goal
Jenna breaks down the gold standard for high school course selection: The "Five-Four" Rule. We discuss why staying in the five core academic subjects—Math, Science, English, History, and World Language—for all four years is the secret to a competitive transcript. Plus, we tackle the big question for future STEM and Business majors: How do we get to Calculus?
Admissions are Evolving (AI & Video Prompts)
The game is changing. As AI begins to influence (and read) college essays, universities are fighting back with high-tech "hoops." Jenna reveals a new trend: on-the-spot video prompts in student portals. We discuss how these interviews are becoming the new trend for admissions officers and how they mirror the modern corporate hiring process.
Why This Matters for Parents of ALL Ages
If your student is still in middle school or just starting high school, this episode is for you. Understanding the "math trajectory" and the business mindset of admissions early on allows you to help your child reach their goals without the last-minute panic of senior year. Whether you are signing up for courses this spring or just beginning to think about the future, Jenna’s insights will help you trade "application anxiety" for a clear, manageable plan.
Inside This Episode:
- The Five-Four Rule: Why consistency in core classes beats "niche" electives every time.
- Calculus Readiness: How to map out a math path that keeps elite colleges interested.
- AI vs. The Human Factor: How video prompts are replacing (or supplementing) the traditional essay.
- The Business Puzzle: Why a 3.8 GPA looks different depending on your specific high school "profile."
- Comparison Trap: How to help your teen "stay in their lane" and focus on personal fit over prestige.
Connect with Our Guest:
- Jenna Schebell: The College Navigators | Instagram: @thecollegenavigators
- The Navigator Network: Join Jenna’s month-to-month membership for virtual college counseling and expert webinars.
Connect with Your Host:
- Laura Ollinger: Positively Healthy Coaching | Instagram: @positivelyhealthymom
Recommended
Transcript
Parental Influence on College Decisions
00:00:00
Speaker
sometimes So many times I'll see parents like really upset about a decision that comes out and I'm like, but is your student upset? Because if they're not upset, don't project this on them. They might be totally yeah fine with the decisions. And then from the student aspect, I think the biggest thing is just not to compare yourself to other people in the process. I think it's so easy.
00:00:19
Speaker
to get kind of like an imposter syndrome and like start looking at what everybody else is doing and thinking you're behind or you should be doing something else. And it's just, I guess, because we're older, right? And we can see down the line, like the people that sometimes look like they have it all together really don't. And then you might feel like you don't, but actually everything's lining up just the way it should be.
Introduction to Episode with Jenna Chabelle
00:00:45
Speaker
Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Positively Healthy Mom. I'm your host, Laura Olinger, teen and parent wellbeing coach and founder of Positively Healthy Coaching. This week, we are picking up where we left off with Jenna Chabelle, founder of the College Navigators. If you missed our last episode, be sure to start there. Now onto to the show.
New Steps in College Applications
00:01:07
Speaker
A new trend that I've noticed this year, a lot of colleges, and you might have experienced this yourself, seem to be like hiding more steps along in the process after applying. Meaning like students submit their applications in October, November, and then after they hit submit, there's like surprise supplements that pop up in the portal. Yeah. Or once a student gets deferred, there's another surprise like, well, if you want to continue on, then you need to do this video for us or you need to do another essay for us. And so it just seems like there's so many more like things that are like adding to jump through.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yes, more hoops to jump through. And I think it's just so they can try to figure out who's really interested. But I think it's just a lot on
AI's Role in Admissions
00:01:50
Speaker
the students. um But I've also seen videos creeping in more. So that's part of like, will that be part of a change with, you know, kids use AI for essays. Essays are being read by AI in college. So like I noticed some schools this year with defers had students log into their portal. And when they did, it popped up a question. It was a video prompt. And essentially you had 45 seconds to read the question and then boom, it would start recording your response. No way. Yeah. And so and if you didn't like answer that question and you like backed out and you logged back in, they'd give you a new question. So it's not like you could like get away and think about it longer. So they really wanted to see how people, I guess, were on their feet and answering questions. So like I always kind of wonder how admissions might change going forward because of, like I said, I.
00:02:37
Speaker
Essays seem to be like, i don't know, are they as good and credible as they were? So many hands touch them. Like I said, AI is reading them. So it'll be interesting to see how some of this gets reimagined. But I can see that some colleges are already kind of testing with some of this stuff.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yes. And so you started even to a topic that I've been curious about, it which is AI. And I hear there's an algorithm. And so there's not actually a person looking through every single thing. It's just that it knows what the threshold is that it sets. And it can you fill us in? Because, they you know,
00:03:11
Speaker
We don't live in this world. Like, we don't know how it works. Can you, like, shed a little bit more light on that? Yeah. I mean, it it very much varies by college. I mean, there are colleges that don't use AI in any sense of the form. Like, they will literally read every single thing in the application. They will, like, hand calculate. Like, there are schools that still do that. But when you start thinking about... The schools that are on a much larger scale, it's just, I mean, in order to get through all of those applications, they have to use it in some capacity. i would say probably the most popular at this point would be more for like transcript review. And especially, i don't know if your daughter applied to any of the schools that use STARS, which is the- Oh, yes, itself he didn't we have bring it out but when things get-
00:03:56
Speaker
funneled into a system where it's very easy to like, I mean, you literally said it's a math course. It was honors level. It was this grade, this credit, like those can easily feed into things to be able to decipher like what courses were taken, if requirements were met, you know, you've got schools like Tennessee, for example, like you have to have 16 core classes that they're looking for. And so it can easily weed out kids that maybe don't have, you know, if they didn't meet certain requirements to like pull them out. Um,
00:04:24
Speaker
Some schools are using them for reading essays, right? Virginia Tech was very forward and said, we're going to have one human reviewer and an AI reviewer. So they'll read them, put notes, some score, you know, depending on how they use it in their admissions process. I do think colleges are using it more than they admit to. I think like when Virginia Tech said it, I think they caught a lot of heat, but we were just being honest versus like something we are doing it and not saying it. Yeah.
00:04:53
Speaker
But I think it just completely varies by school. And I think it it goes back to admissions, too. Like some some schools are very GPA and SAT driven. You probably saw that with Auburn, like in their early action rounds. Like they're very straightforward. These are typically the GPAs and SATs that we admit. These are where you get deferred. And then they say, like, if we defer you, then we take the time to read your application, to read your essay, to look at your activities. We don't do that in the early action round.
Video Prompts and Technology in Admissions
00:05:20
Speaker
We just are scanning for GPA and s SAT. or ac So, again, every process is different by colleges. But, yeah, with AI being able to speed up, I mean, it's a huge cost-saving factor. um
00:05:33
Speaker
Virginia Tech last year didn't get decisions out until February 15th. They came out last week. So, they I mean, it moved up decisions three weeks. So, i mean, there's there's definitely pros and cons to using it, but it does take out some of that personal aspect.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's making me think about like when you said the video prompt and that you have 45 seconds, like that might end up being like the whole new way of doing it because students so much rely on AI to help them write. I have assume all them i know my daughter not use any it. She did not.
00:06:09
Speaker
She was afraid. She didn't want to get caught using it. She wanted to change her voice. But I have a feeling that most kids use it to some extent. I don't know. mean, i mean One, I question, like, would it be a bad thing if kids use it? Not that I'm advocating it, but if an AI is reading it, wouldn't they pick up on their own AI better? Like, part of me, like, questions that part of it. um But I do think it would be helpful to have, like, a human component, like a video, like you said. It's funny because i had posted a video about it talking about Fordham doing it. and And people got upset in the comments, like, well, my student wouldn't be good at this. And what if they have, like, a learning disability and all these...
00:06:49
Speaker
And it was funny because the rebuttal from a lot of people in the comments, I just let people fight it out, was, um you know, my company uses this. This is how we do our first initial round of interviews. So it's kind of like even if you don't like it from a college perspective, if this is the reality of the real world now and this is how companies are screening applicants and doing their first rounds, I mean,
00:07:12
Speaker
this is reality now for our kids. You know what I mean? Maybe they're not filling out resumes in the same way, or maybe this, you know, you're not getting a phone call for your initial, you're doing these screenings. So it's, I mean, we have to kind of in some ways evolve with the world, even if it makes us uncomfortable, it's what helps us grow.
00:07:29
Speaker
True. And kids are so used to doing little videos of themselves. Anyway, that's how they communicate. And that's how social media. And it's funny because I remember the first time I even like took a selfie or did video for my social media. I'm like, this is so awkward. I feel like I'm talking to a little...
00:07:46
Speaker
screen and a little lens and nobody's there. They do it all the time. You it every day. It's like, yeah, it's just, you become more and more part of your life. So I understand there are the kids who might feel awkward. I, of my four children, I've used four children,
00:08:02
Speaker
one is less extroverted and I can see that child of mine struggling a little bit more with that. So it might be a personality dependent, but at the end end of the day, if that skill is what's required to get a job, then it might just be something you have to work harder at, right? Right.
00:08:18
Speaker
And sometimes like those are the kids that surprise you because they wouldn't go stand in front of a class and do it. But they'll if it's just private in their you know room and they have to get a camera. They're like, all right, like nobody's going to laugh at me. It's only going to, you know, who else is going to see this. So sometimes those are the ones that surprise you, too.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. Who knows? There's going to be like a whole new part of maybe your coaching business and my coaching business where we're coaching kids on their video skills, right? Like on the confidence, on the speaking, on the whatever, that' connecting through that lens, because that is a skill to like, yeah. connects through a lens, right? Where you're not acting like a robot or you're reciting your lines, but they have time to prepare, but like, you just have to like, let your personality shine through. And so, um, you
Viewing College Admissions as Business
00:09:01
Speaker
know, who knows? Like, there's just so much unknown at this point. It's kind of like when the internet was first starting and and we had no idea at that point what that would entail. And now we had no idea, of like we're still at the beginning of AI. We don't know how, like what's going to happen from here and how, colleges are going to utilize technology and to change that admissions process. So, um okay, next question I'm going to let you ask, like what, not ask me, but ask yourself, like, what do you think we should know? Like, we've covered a lot of topics. You know, we've talked about majors. We've talked about the environment. We've talked about that admissions process, the psychology of it. Like, what else? Because I know you're in this world every day. So you get so much. Like, what can share with us?
00:09:44
Speaker
um i think it goes back to what I always preach is that college is a business. So I think that's one thing that I just always hope I can educate people with that so much of what goes on is just not about you. It's about them and you're just a little tiny piece of their puzzle that they're trying to fit together to build their class. um And I think once you take that perspective, it helps soften some of those disappointments and decisions because, again, these are things that are outside of your control. What works
Impact of High School Context on GPA and SAT
00:10:14
Speaker
for one school, you know, may not work for another. And and that's OK. I think once you understand that.
00:10:19
Speaker
Like I said, it helps soften some of the hurt and disappointment. um The other thing that I would say is I think a lot of people, I would say one of my most popular kind of like DMs that I get on a regular basis, and it's always after like big decisions. So like last weekend, for example, after all those came out, end of January, I got bombarded. And they all say this, my son or daughter had, and then it's always like fill in the blank, 3.8 a and they didn't get in.
00:10:47
Speaker
Like that literally tells me nothing. But it's one of those things that I think people don't understand that GPA and s SAT alone don't make or break admissions, right?
00:10:57
Speaker
People could have those same exact stats. One gets in, one gets deferred, one gets denied. That they need to understand, one, that it's all in context to where you went to school, right? So a 1,400 SAT at your high school might be really good or it might be expected, you know depending on school you go to. Same thing with the GPA. At 3.8, you could be the top of your class at one high school. At another, it puts you maybe in the bottom 50%.
00:11:23
Speaker
So it's always very important for students and parents to understand what their transcript looks like in context to the school that they go to, because that plays into it. When colleges are evaluating students, that's what they're looking at. They're sitting down with The transcript, the school profile, and that's what they're looking at. Not saying, oh, we've got, you know, Jenna at this school and then Laura goes to the private Catholic school down the street and like we're going to compare them. But yet Laura could only take two APs because that's all her school offers.
00:11:56
Speaker
Jenna could have taken 15. You know, so it's like. They're not comparing apples and oranges. They're looking at you and how much rigor did you take advantage of at your school? What does the average student look like at your school? How do you compare to that?
00:12:11
Speaker
And that's really where decisions are coming in. So I'm always trying to like say to students, you know, yes, you see these average stats, but so much more goes into it, into the admissions decision.
Balancing Academic Load
00:12:23
Speaker
And that's why you simply can't just say like, I had a 3.8 and a 1400 and I was denied. It's like, okay, but somebody else got in with those, you know, it's like, so that I think that's where it becomes very hard for people to understand the why in decisions.
00:12:37
Speaker
Yeah. So We're at the time of year where my kids are picking out classes for next year because, when i have a freshman and sophomore, two boys in high school, and then I also have a seventh grader. And it's like, do I take the AP? Do I take 4AP?
00:12:51
Speaker
Or do I try to get the 4.0 with just on level? And it's just constant conversation. And then my son who's a freshman, do I take Spanish 3? Because he took it in middle school. That counts as a high. So it's like all of these things. Yeah.
00:13:05
Speaker
Is there any way to give blanket advice on just like your average student on how much to challenge themselves versus like overloading themselves with like an incredibly hard academic schedule?
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, I would say if you wanted, if if it's just blanket advice, I would say the easiest thing to just prepare, especially if you don't know what you're going do, is kind of what people refer to as like the 5-4. So every year for four years, do your five core academics. Do a math, a science, an English, history, a world language.
00:13:36
Speaker
Do that all four years. That is what the most competitive colleges are going to expect. Four years in those five core subjects. Okay. If you think you have a child that will go towards STEM fields or business, so any science, technology, math, business, the goal should be to get to calculus because most colleges are expecting calculus. So I would say, especially being in seventh and eighth grade, that is really the only advice that I give them at that point is,
00:14:10
Speaker
looking at where you are right now in math, do you see a pathway to get to calculus? If you don't, and you are kind of good, if you are good at math, then how can you maybe double up or take something over the summer so that you can get to it? um If you're not good at math, then that's part of that bigger conversation is, you know, are there are other fields that you could go into that you'd still be able to work in that, but you don't have to necessarily have like Calc BC.
00:14:33
Speaker
um I will say when I do meet with colleges, a lot of them just want students that are calculus ready, they're not as worried about, is it regular? Is it honors? Is it AP?
00:14:45
Speaker
I mean, granted, if you can take the higher levels, take it, but they would just like to see a student at least be at that calculus level to show the readiness because that's going to be expected for them when they get there.
00:14:56
Speaker
But that would be like my main advice. Like just take those five academic courses all four years. Take that traditional approach with biology, chemistry, physics, if you don't necessarily know what you want to do. And then if you can challenge yourself with honors or AP, do it. But do it in a way that you're building trajectory each year. Don't go in guns blazing and have to like go back levels because you overwhelmed yourself.
00:15:25
Speaker
mean and So you did say fat foreign language, and I um i didn't know that. like i do know some higher level schools do expect that, but is that like blanket advice you would give to try to give yourself ah a competitive advantage?
00:15:37
Speaker
Especially if you're looking at the highly selective colleges, then yes, I would try to get in four years. It's not that it's a requirement, But most that is that's what the applic applicant pool is going to look. So I think that's where sometimes parents and students get confused, too. Do I have to do it? No. But what are like most other applicants in the pool taking? They're going to have four years. If not, take three. I always say, too, like if you're just a student that.
00:16:04
Speaker
like you and more languages don't get along, then I would replace at least with another academic core class. So like maybe instead of that, you pick up, say, an economics or a psychology or, you know, another AP, whatever, comp sci, government, something where it's still an academic. You're not just swapping it out for, say like P.E.,
00:16:25
Speaker
or
Alternative Paths to College Success
00:16:26
Speaker
knitting or something. Not that that's an awful one. I get what you're saying. Okay, so let's do a fun question now. What are some fun success stories that you have to share some of your clients? Obviously it's confidential, so not asking for any real detailed information, but who can share some like really great stories?
00:16:45
Speaker
Well, I have a couple. I mean, I definitely have some fun students. Like I had a student go through the whole entire process last year and then decided to do a gap year to play sports abroad.
00:16:55
Speaker
So I thought that was pretty cool and and a very maturing experience. So I always say like, it's okay if you go through this process and you decide that maybe what you thought ends up changing. I mean, that's just part of life and we pivot and I think that's great. And The student now is going to be coming back next year and has, you know, colleges to choose from. But I think it doesn't always have to be that linear path.
Choosing Personal Fit Over Prestige
00:17:17
Speaker
So, again, trying to keep that option open. The other thing is, too, I think so many students, I'll get back to the question, but I don't want to miss this, is like there are so many different pathways when we're talking about like life being linear. Different pathways to get to where you want to be. So if like students are really just like, I want to go to whatever it is, University of Georgia, University of Florida, there are other ways to get there. So applying as a freshman is always the most absolute competitive. But so many of these colleges now have guaranteed transfer pathways or as long as you get a minimum GPA, SAT as a transfer.
00:17:53
Speaker
Then they're kind of just like, come on in. Like, it's so much easier as a transfer. So I always say keep that kind of in the back of your head. and then I'm trying to think success stories with some other students. I think...
00:18:06
Speaker
I think where I find my success is we always have a working relationship where students kind of know where they stand in terms of like realistic expectations. Like that's my biggest thing is I want them to understand like the realities of kind of just the college admissions world and their list. And so I think when they get some nice surprises, some unexpected wins, think.
00:18:27
Speaker
That's what feels really good about it. And then just being able to figure out what's the right fit for them, too, to be able to weigh their options. I think sometimes when students, say, get deferred out of an early decision, I'm like, that's actually a blessing because now you have all your decisions to weigh that are on a table. Like, try to reframe that. And then if you get in later, great. But now you have all the choices that you want. So,
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. I know I said that was the last question, but I have another one. No, ask away. What are some big mistakes that you see the kids or their, I know their parents are very involved in this process, obviously as well. You're like, no, but they're not listening to you. Like, what are some things that they're like, ah, stop, please make it stop.
00:19:11
Speaker
I think the Biggest mistake I see parents make is sometimes just not listening to their student. Like I think sometimes like what the parents have in mind and what the students have in mind can be two completely separate ideas. And I do think financially you should be on the same page, right? Because obviously if the parents are helping pay, you want to be the same page. But I think there's like...
00:19:34
Speaker
nothing's worse than seeing a student, because I've had this happen before. I had a student who really didn't want to apply early decision to a school, like really wanted to have the options out there. Parent pushed them because they thought that's the only way they'd get in. And of course, student was hoping kind of secretly they would get rejected and they got in, you know? So, and then it's like, then the parent's super excited, you get to go. And then the student's kind of like, I don't know if that's where I wanted to go, you know? So like, right that can be a tough thing. Cause I think,
00:20:04
Speaker
Sometimes things are bigger deals to you than they are to the student, you know, when it comes to this. And even sometimes so many times I'll see parents like really upset about a decision that comes out. And I'm like, but is your student upset? Because if they're not upset, don't project this on them. They might be totally yeah fine with the decision. So um and then from the student aspect, I think the biggest thing is just not to compare yourself to other people in the process. I think it's so easy to get kind of like an imposter syndrome and like start looking at what everybody else is doing and thinking you're behind or you should be doing something else. And it's just,
00:20:44
Speaker
I guess because we're older, right? And we can see down the line, like the people that sometimes look like they have it all together really don't. And then you might feel like you don't, but actually everything's lining up just the way it should be. So it's just, if you can just kind of tune all that noise out and just stay in your lane and just focus on your own happiness, because at the end of the day, you're the one that has to go to the school. You're the one that has to put in the work for the four years. And so you want to pick a place that you're going to thrive in. And it doesn't matter what everybody else thinks, you know, about where you're going. um I think there's so much emphasis on the same 20, 30 schools now, but yet you can go to lots of other schools and still have really, really great outcomes, sometimes better outcomes, you know, depending on certain opportunities that are at
Services Offered by College Navigators
00:21:30
Speaker
schools. So,
00:21:31
Speaker
I think if people can just focus more on the fit for themselves instead of what everybody else thinks of it, um they'll be much happier in the end. That's such great advice. Okay.
00:21:43
Speaker
So well um how can people find you and how can they work with you? Sure. So they can find me. um I would say probably the easiest is on Instagram at thecollegenavigators or they can go to thecollegenavigators.com, either one, and they can just start following along. And then if they ever want, they can join. I always start in junior year for students, the Navigator Network, which is a virtual kind of college counseling. I do live webinars and walk you through the entire process. So that's a really kind of neat thing that I do. And I try to like very intentionally talk about every session, a private school and a public school that is
00:22:17
Speaker
or a target school for most that is affordable, that offers great merit, just because, again, I can kind of open people's eyes to more opportunities that are out there, i think it'll just help them make better decisions as they go. And is that like a membership? It is a membership, yep.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah. by the year? No, not even. It's month by month. So I always say you can get in. You can try it if you like it. Stay as long as you'd like. It starts in January of junior year and runs through May of senior year. So you're more than welcome to stay as long as you want. um But if you just want to get in and use a little bit there, I mean, there's courses that will walk you through. Certain parts of the application, there's all kinds of worksheets and guidebooks. It's very comprehensive um for students. And the students that have gone through it, like I just, I i don't know if you saw the other day, I posted a girl that went through it. She got full tuition, full ride to Miami on her scholar. So it's like, you don't have to spend tons of money on college counseling. And so that's kind of my goal is to try to help as many people as I can by offering like great information at hopefully like whatever they can afford, meaning like that you can stay in as long as you want or get out.
00:23:26
Speaker
Hmm, that's such a great program. And then as far as your, I assume you do one-on-one also. So i'd tell us a little more about that. I do one-on-one as well. I only, I limit myself each year just because I'm running the network as well. So the one-on-one is obviously much more comprehensive. And then I also do like application review services. So I always say like, you don't want to join a network and you don't want to do one-on-one, but you want a set of eyes on your application before it gets sent out, you can always just do kind of everything independently. And then send over your application for a review. And I do two revisions. So you'll get tons of feedback. So at least you feel confident in what you're submitting as it goes out.
00:24:02
Speaker
Awesome. Well, I love the service you're providing. I love the social meeting you put out there. It's such an important time to have someone like you helping with this because we know asked if we were left for our own devices, like we would be a disaster without professional support and guidance. We wouldn't probably tailspinning and fighting a lot more, to be honest, right? Because they would be like, Mom, did you do this or powder Or did you do that, right? And um professionals like you are so and invaluable in the team.
00:24:27
Speaker
And I appreciate you on the show so that we can just like have conversation and like we got a ton of value out of this. So again, thank you having time with us. No, thank you for having me. I love it coming on.