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From Control to Connection: Rethinking Independence for Your Neurodiverse Teen
33 Plays2 days ago
How can Relationship Development Intervention (RDI) help neurodiverse young adults become more independent?
In this episode of The Healthy Mom, we sit down with Brooke Wagner. As the host of the Finding Hope on the Spectrum podcast, Brooke specializes in helping families navigate the complexities of autism and neurodiversity.
This episode dives deep into Relationship Development Intervention (RDI) and how shifting from "static" rules to "dynamic" thinking can transform a teen's ability to navigate the real world. This conversation is essential for moms of neurodiverse teens and young adults who feel like they are "tiptoeing" around their child and are ready to rebuild a connection based on guided participation rather than constant power struggles.
Key Conversations in This Episode:
- The Shift to Dynamic Intelligence: Why teaching neurodiverse teens to manage uncertainty is more important than teaching them to follow rigid rules.
- Restoring the Parent-Guide Role: How to move away from a "controlling" household dynamic and back into a healthy leadership position as a parent.
- Declarative Communication: The power of using "I notice" or "I wonder" statements to invite your teen into the thinking process instead of just giving commands.
- Redefining Success: Shifting the focus from behavioral compliance to long-term quality-of-life markers like meaningful employment and self-regulation.
Common Questions About Moms Of Teens and Autism/Independence:
Question: Why does my neurodiverse teen struggle so much with changes in their routine? Answer: Most traditional approaches teach "static" thinking—if X happens, do Y. However, the real world is "dynamic" and messy. By focusing on dynamic intelligence, we help teens learn to process uncertainty and non-verbal cues so they can adjust to changes in real-time rather than feeling overwhelmed by them.
Question: How do I stop my teen from "ruling the roost" without causing a total meltdown? Answer: It starts with "righting the ship" of the parent-child relationship. Through guided participation, you move away from being a "manager" who dictates every move and toward being a "guide." This helps the teen feel safe and competent, which naturally reduces their need to use controlling behaviors as a defense mechanism.
Meet Our Expert, Brooke Wagner:
Brooke Wagner is an RDI® Program Certified Consultant, the founder and owner of Therapeutic Approach to Growth (TAG), and the host of the podcast Finding Hope on the Spectrum. With over 20 years of experience, Brooke is dedicated to empowering parents of individuals with autism and other neurodevelopmental challenges. Her approach focuses on the Relationship Development Intervention (RDI) model, which emphasizes building the foundation of a guided relationship to foster emotional connection, flexible thinking, and long-term independence.
- Connect with Brooke on Instagram: @jessturner.coaching
- And on Facebook: Therapeutic Approach To Growth
- www.findinghopeonthespectrum.com
- www.tagforgrowth.com
Resources From Laura Ollinger
- Coaching: Let’s Work It Out!
- Connect On Instagram: @positivelyhealthycoaching
- Rate This Podcast!
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Guest
00:00:00
Speaker
And every family is at a different place when we start. Sometimes these kids can um become very controlling because that's how they feel safe and comfortable. So they're always trying to control everything. And sometimes, and then the parents can allow that because they, they you know, this whole situation has kind of thrown them through a loop and they're not, and so now they're in this rhythm of allowing their child to control and they don't even know it
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast. I'm your host, Laura Olinger, teen and young adult wellbeing coach and founder of Positively Healthy Coaching. Today, I am so excited to introduce you to Brooke Wagner, who is an RDI consultant. She is the founder, owner and founder of Therapeutic Approach to Growth and is the host of her podcast called Hope on the Spectrum, or sorry, Finding Hope on the Spectrum. So Brooke, welcome to the show.
00:00:52
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yes, me too, me too. So, all right, so first let's explain what all that means because I just said a whole bunch
Understanding RDI and Empowering Families
00:01:00
Speaker
of stuff. So just kind of tell us what you do. Sure, sure. So I am an RDI program certified consultant and RDI stands for Relationship Development Intervention. And um this program was created for individuals with autism. And um although it can benefit other diagnoses too, we certainly have supported other diagnoses, um but mostly we specialize in autism. And um in RDI, um the original focus of the program and and overall big picture is to support parents. And we really believe in the power of guiding our clients, and that would be our parents that we're working with, And um supporting them to feel competent and successful in understanding their child and understanding how to you know create meaningful opportunities in the moment during natural lifestyle opportunities with their child. So it's really about a mindset shift for them and understanding you know what their child doing. challenged with and and what what what they're capable of and and learning about what autism is too. So we really want our clients to feel empowered to understand, you know, how to set their child up for success, how to effectively guide them during natural moments and giving them opportunities that feel authentic and motivating.
00:02:20
Speaker
So, you know, when we see that our parents in this program are feeling successful and feeling empowered, You know, that is going to transfer over to their children and really going to help their children to feel um more likely to go towards invitations to participate in interactions. So we really support the whole lifespan. We have clients that are two up to in their fifty s and Certainly have tons of teens because, you know, that's, you know, a big area of life that many people need help with. and so we support, you know, that population as well. Sometimes we work directly with the clients ourselves as consultants, especially with those teens um and adults and help guide them and through opportunities. and Things like going into the community, going, you know, into even supporting the school system, of course, being in their home as well. But the nice thing about this program is that it can be done um remotely. So many of our clients meet with us over Zoom and can receive the guidance and then apply it and kind of reflect on how they how they think things went.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Wow. It's so cool. And I know you and I just have this cool synergy because we're all about empowering the whole family, the parents, giving them the skills to support their child. And, you know, because when you think about it, they're with their child. Yeah.
Transition from ABA to RDI
00:03:39
Speaker
all the time i i just work with a team for example it's it's i get them one hour a week but then the parents might not have the skills to support what i've taught the team so i'm really big and they're like bringing the whole family and the parents specifically and kind of vetting everybody for success and then really allowing them to do the work and then come back see how it went what needs tweets what went well so um how did you get started in this approach Yeah, that's it was so many years ago. i was in the field of autism. i just fell in love with working with kids with autism um in college and um started an ABA, which is more traditional behavioral therapy. And at some point we had Dr. Gutsy and Dr. Sheely come to San Diego and put on a two day conference. And the company I was working for at the time brought them in. And I started to realize from this conference that I was missing things.
00:04:35
Speaker
And um although I loved what I was doing, I really felt like there was so much more we could do for our clients. And once i learned about it, I just couldn't go back. I just went full force and focused all of my attention on this kind of approach. And so one of the main things that I learned about was dynamic intelligence. and you know how important it is to work on things in a dynamic way so that our clients can be able to problem solve and be flexible and handle the messy world that we all live in right? It's so unpredictable. And so um at that time, I was working on more static thinking and and learning. And I realized that You know, then these kids were having a hard time socially because social interactions are so dynamic and require you to be in the moment and make adjustments and, you know, realize what went wrong and fix it or what went well and why. And we weren't working on it that way. we were working on it in much more static way. Things like that. look at me, you know, with eye contact. This was very traditional back then. I don't, I don't know if it's used anymore, maybe, but, um but it, it wasn't helping them to think through these moments and when they're in these social settings.
00:05:48
Speaker
And so that, what I saw, I remember going to this classroom, I went to this preschool classroom and I saw this little girl and And all like everybody thought, oh, she's got so many skills. She's so capable. But I just had this different lens. And I noticed that she was looking around and trying to figure it out, but not quite sure what all the kids were doing at the little table.
00:06:07
Speaker
And she was masking. You know, now people know masking. But back then we didn't know what that was. That wasn't a term we used. Then I realized, oh, she is fully putting on a show and acting like she gets it, but she doesn't.
00:06:19
Speaker
And so i was like, oh, I'm doing her disservice if I don't, you know, work on these things and continue to learn myself and grow. so that's when I learned about it. And that was about 20 years ago or more. And I just have loved it ever since. It's just had such an impact on so many lives, just being in this world and seeing other people's work and my work and just what what can happen with the parents really get involved and and work on things in a more dynamic way.
Client Success Stories and Dynamic Intelligence
00:06:45
Speaker
Hmm. I love that approach. Just kind of like seeing things through that different lens that, you know, sometimes old school ways are great and sometimes they're missing something. And so it sounds like you were able to fill in that gap there with that. And so and would love to zoom in a little bit more because, you know, as you know, my specialty is teenagers and young adults. And so walk us through an example of a family success story or kind of a typical client that you've seen an amazing transformation with.
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so many. I can think about, you know, teens. You know, we've had teens um at my practice, Therapeutic Approach to Growth, that hit major milestones. What we're looking for is quality of life markers. We want our clients to have a high quality of life.
00:07:31
Speaker
So when you look at, you know, what is quality of life for people? In general, most people will say meaningful employment, you know, having significant others. We know that having meaningful relationships is a huge factor for happiness in life. You know, through research has been proven that we all need to be within community and we need to have meaningful relationships where we feel valued. We feel like somebody values us and we value them and it's mutual.
00:07:58
Speaker
And so that could be friendships. It could be parent-child relationships. It could be significant others. Yeah. And we have had the beauty of it is that we get to so close with our families that um the parents stay in touch with us and they share future milestones that their children achieve.
00:08:16
Speaker
So we have had so many clients as teens that we've worked with. Sometimes they're, you know, a little bit younger, like 10 when they start. And then the we help we help them through that whole teenage journey. experience, which is complicated and hard for everybody, yeah um but especially for them.
00:08:31
Speaker
And we have had families come back and share that their children have meaningful employment. um They, you know, can work at Legoland in San Diego. Legoland's pretty big. um And they can work at many different positions on the park, which is really significant because that means that they're able to think flexibly and adjust to the different roles that are required for the different positions within the park. And these are kids that we know were really static and really rigid in their thinking. So that is a big deal that, that that you know, you get to that level where you can receive guidance from a mentor at the park and learn the skills needed for each of the different physicians. We've had many clients go to college and um thrive and be successful in college, which also you know equates to independence. You know you have to have self-regulation. You have to have self-awareness. you know You have to initiate all these things that were challenging when we started.
00:09:27
Speaker
We've had kids, clients have gotten married, um which is huge. sure You know, we get the wedding pictures, which is like the ultimate celebration all of our staff celebrate when we when we get those things. And those are big, huge milestones, right? We celebrate the little wins, too. You know, some of our clients, when we start, are um really stuck in their homes and not wanting to leave their bedrooms and because of the anxiety they're experiencing. Yeah. And so, you know, we may start with just walking to the community pool and back, you know, just taking a walk.
00:10:02
Speaker
That's a big win sometimes. You know, we can't underestimate how challenging those little things can be for our clients. Right. And how powerful they can be. Yes. And so, you know, we really just want to focus on what is just the next level of challenge that they can be competent and successful with.
00:10:19
Speaker
And then we can then give them feedback on very specific feedback about what was successful and more importantly, why was it a success? And and and and and then expand it from there. And to slowly over time, all these little wins lead to changes in how they think about things, changes in how they process things, better a better sense of self.
00:10:38
Speaker
a better self-identity of who they are as a competent person. Because it's one thing for another person to feel that way about you. But if you then start to feel that way about yourself and you feel as like you can handle things and you are a person that can um respond to challenge and be flexible, then you're going to be more likely to go towards opportunity when it's presented to you in the
Challenges and Personalized Programs in Autism
00:11:00
Speaker
future. and so um it's a really, sometimes we say it's a marathon, not a sprint. Right. really want to say it's like it's a slow process but but if you continue to stay on the path you will achieve success no matter what it will happen it just in their own time and whatever their own potential is to reach you just want them to reach their potential
00:11:21
Speaker
o I was thinking it might be helpful. Not everybody totally understands autism, like what it is, what the spectrum is, like what the different levels are. i was thinking maybe it would be helpful too if we talked about that. So tell us what it is and what it isn't, because I know so many people have these misconceptions. And I find, you know, I've worked with many clients on the spectrum as well. And I find, um not their families, but like that just in general, the public is not really fully aware of what it is. So I'd love to hear your feedback on that.
00:11:52
Speaker
Sure. i think from my perspective, it is really, um there are some core challenge areas that many experience. it's But it's so important to mention that, you know, every individual with autism is so different.
00:12:06
Speaker
So every program has to be highly individualized for that person. and And based on their life experience, based on their family values, um you know, so that's important to mention. But overall, I would say um that dynamic intelligence is a huge factor. Many individuals, their brains are not processing information in a dynamic way, the way that a neurotypical individual would. So when information is coming in, they are not using all the various parts of the brain to make a dynamic decision, to notice what's important, what's not important, what to ignore, what not to ignore. And that process happens so quickly in the moment for all of us, we don't even realize it. We just are rapidly thinking through all the contextual cues. And so when you have a hard time doing that, you're not gathering all of the necessary pieces to make a good decision.
00:12:56
Speaker
yeah And it's not even like the right decision. It's just a good enough decision because this is such a dynamic process that we go through. So and that neural integration is a huge breakdown. And we've been able to see that through MRI studies that individuals um oftentimes have a stronger pathway to certain parts of the brain, but they lack the integration.
00:13:17
Speaker
So that's why it's really incredibly important to work on. So I would say dynamic intelligence is a big area that is a challenge for many that can be worked on. That's going to lead to also not necessarily processing those nonverbal cues.
00:13:31
Speaker
And so That's why you see a lot of eye contact avoidance, you know, or none at all. And um and if you're miss if you're not able to process um those nonverbal channels, so gestures, facial expressions, body orientation, even prosody, which is, you know how we emphasize things. If we say, if we bring attention to certain things as we say it, or we look surprised at something, um something like a car crash happens and we're like, you know, like that means something, that sound means something.
00:14:01
Speaker
So if you're not, that's about 60 to 80% of our communication. And if you're not able to reference those nonverbal cues, so noticing them and then processing in them for me for meaning, then you're missing out a lot on what's going on in your environment and the communication. So I'd say they oftentimes have a very hard time processing nonverbal cues. um But again, not all, but many do. Yeah. um also memory because if you're not processing things in a dynamic way you're not memory you're not you're not going to encode um those experiences the way that you should so we see a lot of challenges with episodic memory and that is the type of memory that has emotion some kind of like some kind of emotion component you also remember the the pieces of the the experience like the semantics of it but then you also understand what you learned from the moment like Oh, that did feel good. I'm not going to do that again. When I said that, that really offended the person. Or, you know, I jumped in line and that guy did not like that I jumped in line. i am not going to do that again. You know, that that kind of memory um is often lacking.
00:15:03
Speaker
So it's because their memory is so strong and static, it kind of can overtake it. So they feel very black and white in their thinking. And so i would say and then and then, of course, you know emotionally connecting, you know understanding perspectives is a big one. So being able to understand your partner's perspective and understand why their perspective is what it is based on their who they are and what you know of them and your own perspective and being able to connect on an emotional level, that emotional entombment. Mm-hmm. So that is another area that can be really challenging for individuals.
00:15:36
Speaker
And so, of course, when you feel such a high level of uncertainty in these areas, these are really complex things that we do yeah neurotypical individuals, and you can't and you don't feel successful doing them, then you are going to shut down.
Handling Uncertainty and Emotional Misconceptions
00:15:50
Speaker
know You're going to be anxious. You're going to shut down. You're not going to want to go towards those opportunities. And it's not for a lack of not wanting to. Like they they want, of course, they want to have meaningful relationships and they want to feel successful, but they don't feel successful as anybody would do. Right. We would shut down.
00:16:08
Speaker
If there's something we feel like we're feeling at over and over, we're not going to go towards that. yeah I'd be like, I'm done. and This is way more comfortable being over here than keep trying this thing that makes me feel so uncertain.
00:16:19
Speaker
a you And so when you can have that lens, then you can work on those things rather than working on the behaviors. yeah The behaviors are just a symptom of all that uncertainty.
00:16:30
Speaker
Right. So if you don't work on those things, then you can really, you know, support them to feel successful and competent. Then the behaviors start to dissipate. You know, working with kids, kids have behaviors. that''s That's different than what I'm talking about. The behaviors that are in response to such a high level of uncertainty that they're experiencing. Mm-hmm.
00:16:53
Speaker
Hi everyone, just a quick pause before we get back to the episode. I'm so glad you're here. A lot of you know me as someone who helps teens feel more confident and less overwhelmed, but I also support parents who are trying to navigate all this with more calm, clarity, and connection.
00:17:11
Speaker
My work includes teen and young adult coaching, parent coaching, and support for the parent-teen relationship. So whether your teen is dealing with anxiety, self-doubt, or pressure, or you're trying to communicate better at home, I'm here for that.
00:17:26
Speaker
You can connect with me at PositivelyHealthyCoaching.com slash booking so we can talk more about your confidence, resilience, stress, and healthy family dynamics.
00:17:37
Speaker
My goal is simple, to help families feel more connected and more equipped to handle what life throws at them. I hope you'll join me. Now back to the show. Yeah, I love that you describe it that way because really that is what anxiety is. It's just uncertainty of, you know, what's happening and what the future is and what the outcome is going to be. And when that becomes kind of the space that you're living in, yeah, that's that's exhausting. It's stressful. Any...
00:18:05
Speaker
um Anybody would struggle with that. So I'm glad you highlighted that. And then the other part I'm really glad you highlighted too is just um kind of that exchange of sharing emotions. Because that was kind of where I was going with this is there's that common misconception of people on the spectrum don't have emotions. It's like, that's not true that they do have emotions. Right.
00:18:27
Speaker
And so I'm glad you kind of like brought light to that. It's just kind of that exchange and kind of understanding someone else's feelings and emotions, what they're experiencing, and then how to communicate your own. And
Improving Family Dynamics and Interaction
00:18:38
Speaker
so, um yeah, how does that play into like this building of relationships? Because to me, that's a huge part of it.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's incredibly important, right? Because it goes back to the meaningful relationships that are, that is what makes us happy. So, and there was such a misconception. And also that they don't want to have friends. They're fine alone. That's such a misconception. I've heard that from professionals, you know, oh, They just want to go STEM. They're fine. i'm like, no, they, of course they want to have relationships. They don't look successful. Right. well Not that they, not that like STEMing is very regulating and not that there's not a place for it, but let's not discount that they, they do. And we want to presume what we call in our field is presuming competence. We want to presume competence, which means that we believe they're capable of it.
00:19:25
Speaker
We believe they would want it because they're human. Like, yeah. They're human. They're not, you know, not human. So let's go with what research says that this is what equates to happiness. So um so it's really about this is the beauty of what we get to do is start with the parents and helping the parents build the meaningful relationship with their child. And every family is at a different place when we start.
00:19:47
Speaker
Sometimes these kids become become very controlling because that's how they feel safe and comfortable. So they're always trying to control everything. yeah And sometimes, and then the parents can allow that because they, they you know, this whole situation has kind of thrown them through a loop and they're not, and so now they're in this rhythm of allowing their child to control and they don't even know it. um And sometimes the parent becomes really controlling, trying to prompt them and give them direction all the time to get get a response. And so we have to kind of teach the parents on how to slow down, create meaningful roles for them and for their child within a meaningful interaction. But it could should be very natural and authentic, like cooking together or playing ball together. it You know, and it should feel should not feel contrived. and
00:20:33
Speaker
It should feel like something they both mutually would enjoy. Science experiments, an art project can be anything, just what feels meaningful and authentic to them. and slowing it down so that they can feel successful within that more structured framework. Sometimes it varies per child or per individual. And so some need it more structured and some are fine with you know more loose kinds of interactions. But most of our clients are gonna need at least to understand their role, their partner's role within the interaction. And when you can work on that and it feels good and successful, then it gives you a starting point to build from.
00:21:08
Speaker
And then you just build from there. But you start with this guided participation relationship between the parent-child, where the parent is guiding, the child's an apprentice, and they feel successful as in that role. And they they trust their parent because their parent is giving them meaningful challenges that feel important, that feel age-appropriate, that are challenging, but not too challenging. So just the right level of challenge where they feel like they're overcoming it's something that we can help them create these moments.
00:21:37
Speaker
And then we expand it to peers, to teachers, you know, we kind of expand their world so they can have opportunities with others, speech therapists, OTs, whoever wants to be involved will help, will work with them and, and, ah and help them to apply these, this approach. If they're not, maybe they're, some of them may already have some of this kind of concept, but, but yeah, so that's how we build those meaningful relationships. It has to be in a way that we know we're going to set both parent and child up for success. Quality over quantity.
00:22:02
Speaker
So you have slow it down, make sure that they're really successful, they empower, they know what to how to handle when things go awry, because they will, they always do. um It's just how it goes. If you have to make adjustments, especially in the potentially beginning, right? Like you think something's going to work and it just didn't go as planned. So we make adjustments. And I think the most important thing for families to understand that it's not about being perfect or having just like that exact moment we were hoping for. It's about staying in so in a state of appraisal, always reflecting and being like, oh, oh, that actually went better than I thought or that didn't go as well. And now I'm going to make an adjustment next time.
00:22:36
Speaker
And if you could stay there, then you learn to do that in the moment when natural moments occur. And you continue to help your child and through many, many opportunities have these moments of growth throughout the day.
00:22:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um Appraisal, I'm assuming you mean versus judgment. That would be the opposite of appraisal. and this Yeah. So, yeah. So it's kind of always kind of staying in the reflection state.
00:22:58
Speaker
it's It's kind of, you know, and not being critical, you know, just like, it's just information. Yeah. Yeah, it's not good or bad. It's just information. Right, right. I would love to go back to something you said um because it's something I am seeing.
00:23:12
Speaker
I work with the families a lot when things get lopsided where there's not, there's kind of some leadership lacking within the parents. And, you know, through no fault of their own, they just hadn't learned that skill yet. And so what happens is the family goes sideways. And then suddenly it's the teen, I mean, because I work with teenage families, and the teenager is then the one kind of ruling the roost because their emotional outbursts or their shutdowns or their whatever, that's then controlling the family. So then everybody's tiptoeing around so they don't trigger the teenager. And so then it's just like, part of what I do is help
00:23:48
Speaker
like right the ship and get the leadership back where it needs to be because the teenager there's like ah a void or a i always say that it's going like fill a vacuum like if there's a void somebody's going to get in charge right and it's like reminds me of like that's like just like so you know so like a vacuum cleaner like something's going to get get sucked up and so usually when that team doesn't feel safe they're the ones that go to the top so when we write the ship i loved what you said and i wanted to pull this part out is where the parents don't need to control either nobody needs to control anybody like right it's not about control i always say it's about collaboration not control so i'd love for you to go a little bit more into that when your parent the parents are leading um you know is there anything you have to elaborate where so they are not like you said being super directive and controlling like what what else happened there Yeah, well, we have to work a lot on their communication style because, you know, a lot of times when they go into that really controlling mode, they're using a lot of directives, which is places demand on the child and can be overwhelming as well. And it doesn't allow what's most important more than anything is it doesn't allow the child an opportunity to think for themselves differently.
00:24:55
Speaker
and to problem solve and contribute. And we want them, so we want the parents to give them opportunity to be able to understand that their opinion has value, that their um they have a meaningful contribution to the interaction, and and that we want to hear it. We don't want them to think, what does my parent want me to say right now? Because that's often what happens when you're like,
00:25:16
Speaker
constantly demanding and putting those prompts on your child. then the child starts to think, well what do they want me to say right now? And we don't want that. We want them to want to share and we want them to understand how to authentically do so and the and have it be meaningful for them. So we work we work on declarative communication a lot.
00:25:35
Speaker
And that is a style of communication where it's more invitational and you're more curious and you're sharing your opinions and your perspectives Um, sometimes we might use indirect cues.
00:25:47
Speaker
So instead of saying like, oh, I'm so like, instead of saying, um, I, you know, which, which pizza topping do you want? Let's say they're making pizzas together. Which one do you want? You know, do you want pizza, do want pecoroni or do you want mushrooms? And it's very directive.
00:26:01
Speaker
We might say, oh, I can't wait to see which one you would like. and follows Oh, Yeah. And give them processing time because the processing time is another huge thing that most individuals with autism need um because their brain needs to do that work to integrate.
00:26:15
Speaker
And so it's it's challenging. So they need that time over time. They need less of it. But in the beginning, oftentimes our clients say we say up to 45 seconds of processing time. So we might say that and then we might pause for an extended period of time, again, presuming competence that they are going to be able to process it and they are going to be able to contribute. They might point to it. They might share it.
00:26:38
Speaker
um They might look at something. You know, there's lots of different ways they can communicate. And then we can follow up. but I love hearing what you had to share. i didn't know which one you were going to share. And I'm so excited to hear that you want the pepperoni. i didn't i didn't know which one you'd want.
00:26:53
Speaker
Then you're sharing your perspective, but you're also sharing the value of the contribution because it feels good to me to hear your ideas is a near and you're in meaningful relationship with me. And so you're important. Your opinion matters. It's a value to me.
00:27:06
Speaker
I love
Connecting with Brooke Wagner and Conclusion
00:27:07
Speaker
that just because it's so open and so broad. And then that's kind of just like, it seems like a easier dialogue, a back and forth dialogue, because there's like, there's not like a right and wrong. It's just yeah whatever is great. Thanks for sharing. And now i share, it right? Like it just feels really collaborative. I really yeah that's a beautiful approach.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, it feels good. You know, when we when we feel ah we when we feel of value and we feel like our opinion matters to another person and they and they appreciate that, it feels good. And that leads to more internal motivation to want to do it more.
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, Brooke, I know for just absolute fact, this is just the tip of the iceberg. um You have so much to share. And so um let's just refresh. How can people find you and um share the name of your podcast again?
00:27:56
Speaker
Sure, yeah. So we you can find me at um tag, T-A-G, 4-F-O-R, growth g-r-o-w-t-h dot com so that's therapeutic approach to growth's website and that's the best way to reach out we have complimentary presentations of families want to learn more about rdi they're live they're small so you can ask your questions and get real answers right then and there you can see videos of families um sharing video, you know, practicing this approach as well. And then also the website for the podcast is findinghopeonthespectrum.com.
00:28:30
Speaker
Super easy on there. There's links to the podcast. um We also are on Instagram and those are all linked on that website and Facebook and Therapeutic Approach to Growth is mostly on Facebook. I would say pretty simple to search the name of the business and and you'll find it.
00:28:46
Speaker
Okay. Well, Brooke, thank you so much for taking the time. This was just like a fascinating conversation. i love it. um So thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Thank you so much for having me. it was wonderful.
00:28:56
Speaker
All right. Bye.
00:28:59
Speaker
When you get a chance, please go to the show notes and click on the link ratethispodcast.com slash TPHmom to give my podcast a rating and review.
00:29:10
Speaker
And if this episode resonates with you, be sure to share it with your mom friends who are going through the same things. Be sure to tune in for next week's conversation. Until then, keep up the good work.