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EPISODE 115: GASLIGHTING IS TERRIFYING!
913 Plays9 months ago
Victims of gaslighting are made to feel as though they’re going crazy— but make no mistake, it’s emotional abuse. Join Matty and Andrew as they explore this strange and terrifying topic.
HORROR IN THE MOVIES
You’re not going crazy… we really are chatting about LET’S SCARE JESSICA TO DEATH and THE INVISIBLE MAN!
WHATCHA BEEN WATCHIN’, BITCH?!
Listen in to hear what we’ve been watchin’... bitch!
HOTTIE OF THE EPISODE
Who is the hottest of them all? Listen in to find out!
–
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Frage the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud, independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frage13.com. Welcome to Frage the 13th Romantic Comedy Podcast. My name is Matty. And I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time listening to this podcast, this is the podcast where we talk all about romantic comedies in the movies and romantic comedy in real life. You heard that right, and that's how we've always done it.
00:00:27
Speaker
And that's how we always will. It's episode 115. Gaslighting is terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom. I'm Marjorie Greene and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China.
Gaslighting as a Cultural Phenomenon
00:00:53
Speaker
We are life. Doubters, the Doomsters, the Gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. They're not their memories. Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna run? Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now! Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh?
00:01:24
Speaker
I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning.
00:01:35
Speaker
What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. Gaslighting. Merriam-Webster has named gaslighting their word of the year for 2022. They explained, quote, in this age of misinformation of fake news, conspiracy theories, Twitter trolls and deep fakes, gaslighting has emerged as a word for our time.
00:01:57
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Friday the 13th Horror Podcast. My name, this time it really is Maddie. And this time it really is Andrew. We were pulling a prank on you, right? We were gaslighting you. We were gaslighting your ass. We'll talk more about that very soon. Listen, if this is your first time with Friday the 13th Horror Podcast,
Political Commentary and Age in Leadership
00:02:17
Speaker
we're not a romantic comedy podcast. No, we were joking. We were gaslighting you again.
00:02:22
Speaker
Instead, we are the podcast that talks about horror, horror in real life and in the movies from an LGBTQ perspective. This is our 115th episode and we're talking about gaslighting today. So we've got a good show cooked up for you and a couple of really great, this is actually one of my favorite duos of films we've ever had. The Invisible Man from 2020 and Let's Scare Jessica to Death from 1971.
00:02:51
Speaker
Um, it was just really fun to watch these. Yeah. I will totally, I mean, we'll get into it, but like, I've never been like so excited to watch the movie podcast. So like, yeah, I guess we should do that more often. I don't know why we torture ourselves, but you know, it's like, actually, you know, for listeners, if there just happens to be a new listener right now,
00:03:14
Speaker
Obviously, you know, welcome to the podcast. What we do is we talk about, you know, a particular theme, which we're doing gaslighting today. And then we choose two horror films that connect to to that theme. So these ones, they just fit perfectly. And we'll we'll get into that very soon. But first, Andrew, we'll start the episode as we always do with the certified terrifying corner. Yeah, we the first thing we'll talk about is we'll talk about this one first, because it'll probably be pretty quick.
00:03:42
Speaker
An elderly man with poor memory is how Joe Biden was described in a summary from special counsel Robert Herr of the Justice Department just this week with diminished faculties in advancing age, quote unquote, not great for an election year for an 81 year old.
00:04:01
Speaker
So wait, where did where did this come from? So this was a summary brief. So there was an investigation into how Joe Biden was handling top secret documents. And like, OK, this is this kind of happens to most presidents, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It happened to Donald Trump with the big news of Mar-a-Lago. He had boxes and boxes of them. But like, as far as I know, nearly every president has had some sort of issue with like
00:04:28
Speaker
documents they probably shouldn't have in a particular place. And so don't take anything home, you guys. Just like leave it in the fucking Oval Office. Anyways, um, some kind of investigation that they would have questioned president Biden. And this was the main special counsel investigator. He wrote in the summary brief that he's an elderly man with poor memory with diminished faculties and advancing age. So of course,
00:04:55
Speaker
This is a big deal in an election year. And like, look, it's, you know, look.
00:05:02
Speaker
It's not new news. I'll tell you that. Right. I don't want Joe Biden to lose this election, given that we only have these two, these two as a choice, these two, these two. Exactly. But like, look, I mean, this is I mean, like, are we all done? Like, we knew that this was going to happen. We knew it was going to happen. And like, whether or not he is like, he's he's actually good or not, because honestly, Andrew, you and me, we don't fucking know. We don't know what actually is going on. Whether or not he's good or not.
00:05:32
Speaker
This was always going to be an issue. And now it's really in the forefront because ostensibly a guy like Robert Herr, who was supposed to be completely, you know, nonpartisan here, wrote this and it's all over the news now. So President Biden got pissed and did a little that he mentioned it some in some speech. And then I did see some spokesperson for the White House do do a press conference and that dude was pissed. He was. Yeah. So, you know, it's wild.
Personal Reflections and Podcast Milestones
00:06:02
Speaker
What I will say is something something happened that made me a little bit freaked out. And I was listening to a podcast and they had AOC on as a guest and they had the guffaw basically to ask, hey, if something happens to Biden, given his advanced age,
00:06:27
Speaker
does the Democratic Party have a plan? And even AOC was like, I don't know. And I was like, that's not good, you guys, like, come on, like. It's not good at all. I mean, look, it goes back, I would say two elections ago, you know, instead of constantly looking at who is the mainstream moderate candidate, the Democratic Party has not developed the younger part of its party.
00:06:53
Speaker
And so I totally agree. I think that that we have a wealth of knowledge in our Democrats that don't that don't extend that down. I completely agree with you. And so here we are now with, you know, an 80. I mean, like, look,
00:07:08
Speaker
No matter what you think about him, he is 81 years old. We're lucky to make it to that age. I don't want an 81 year old as president because, yeah, look, my mom is well over 80. I remember when she turned 80.
00:07:24
Speaker
the woman shouldn't have been president. Do you know what I mean? So my grandma just turned 80 last year. And guess what? Shouldn't be president. Yeah, exactly. So I mean like this is how it is. Anyways, that's that. Next one here is
00:07:40
Speaker
This is really really interesting. A mother in Michigan, Jennifer Crumbly was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter after her teen son's murderous rampage at Oxford High School in 2021. If I remember, that's not too far outside of Detroit.
00:07:58
Speaker
Um, she will serve nothing in measures. Well, I mean, you know, it might've been in the UP or something. It's a big state, Andrew. Nothing happens in the UP. It's a very, it's a very big state. Uh, look, uh, she's going to serve 15 years and she is the first parent to be convicted in such a case. Good. Yeah. It's listening, listening to the, the facts of the case.
00:08:21
Speaker
so wild. And like this kid, I mean, look, the kid, the kid deserves to be punished for the rest of his life for what he did. That, that, that goes at that same. However, this is a, this was a child that was reaching out for help over and over and over again. His mom actually, did you know this? The mom laughed at him when he said that he wanted to go talk to a psychologist. She laughed at him.
00:08:45
Speaker
This is what I'm this is I think I've kind of like alluded to this, you know, many times on the podcast. But if if we're going to. If we're going to say that, like, oh, we got to protect the kids, we have to protect the kids from the drag queens, we have to protect the children, they're so they're so precious. We have to protect the children. He's going to have folks. He's going like we have to hold the parents accountable then.
00:09:10
Speaker
I agree with the territory. I don't know what to tell you. The parent, the parents did not get the child help that he needed. And not only did they not get him help, they literally bought him a gun for Christmas. They bought him a gun like fuck. Are you fucking are you fucking dumb? Like your kid clearly has fucking problems.
00:09:31
Speaker
and you buy him a fucking gun. You're an asshole. And you know what? The dad, his child's gonna come up soon too. I hope his ass goes to jail too. Good night. Hope you go to jail. Yeah. Okay, that's that. And finally, this episode will be our sixth year anniversary. So Andrew, happy six years.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, six fucking years, more than some jobs I've had. For real. It's wild. We tell the story often, but we'd never thought we'd be doing it for more than 10 episodes and 145 episodes later from those first 10. Look at us, we're still going out, 145. I just did the math wrong. Well, no, I mean... 105, 105.
00:10:17
Speaker
Well, I mean, with all of our special episodes and interviews and everything, we're probably right around there. So. So, yeah, folks, this is our sixth year of doing podcasting and doing of doing this podcast, of course. Now we're looking forward to doing a whole lot more for you. So thanks for being with us for the ride. And let's get on with our sixth year right now with episode 115. So, Andrew, and that being said, you should leave us a review on Apple podcast. Good night. Hello. Thank you.
00:10:44
Speaker
So, Andrew, we're talking about gaslighting today. You've gotten the definition for it. Why don't you read it for us?
Gaslighting: History and Techniques
00:10:53
Speaker
Yes, so the Merriam-Webster definition, which was just added actually not too long ago, I think it was in 2021, of gaslighting is a psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts.
00:11:12
Speaker
perception of reality or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence, and self-esteem. Uncertainty of one's emotion or mental stability and dependency on the perpetrators. Sounds like a lot of managers that I've had for real past.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say that the only umbrage that I take with, it's not even umbrage, the only criticism that I would have of the definition is that it does sort of put emphasis on a longer term thing. And I think that gaslighting can also be short term too. Oh, of course. So there's sort of like two lengths of it. It can happen in little blips or it can happen over a long length of time.
00:11:54
Speaker
I mean, we wouldn't have reality TV without gaslighting. Yeah. And in either case, it is abuse. And it happens all the time. It happens in families. It happens in relationships. It happens in friendships. It happens in professional relationships. And it's something that I'm really glad has been named in recent years.
00:12:20
Speaker
because I feel like so many of us have been victims of it and never had a word for it. And then you have the word and then you're like, Oh, yeah, that's what happened. That's what it is. It's really interesting.
00:12:31
Speaker
Yeah. So do you know where this actually, this term comes from? I know a little bit, but tell me more. So this term actually comes from a British play turned into a film in the 1930s, which I've never seen. Um, the play was called Gaslight and the plot is about a husband who mentally and emotionally manipulates his wife into believing that she is crazy by changing the intensity of the gas lamps within their home. Oh my God.
00:12:57
Speaker
He does other crazy making things like knocking on the walls or moving and disappearing items around the house It's basically like you know that it's what the term is but I actually didn't know that it came from like a play like and like the fact that it actually comes from like gas lamps, which I
00:13:18
Speaker
Listen, we have a little kerosene lamp coming up in the movies very soon. But I just thought that that was very interesting. I had never heard that that actually came from a term that someone made up. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. It's really interesting. I haven't seen... I've heard of gaslight before and I sort of knew that the term came from it, but I've never had the occasion to watch it yet.
00:13:43
Speaker
Can you imagine having the time and the energy to manipulate your partner in that way? Because seriously, you know, it's it's wild. I think that, you know, I mean, have you ever had a partner gaslight you?
00:13:58
Speaker
I think I have definitely had partners and or friendships that have tried to manipulate my thoughts into a certain way. Obviously, we have so many things going on in the world and
00:14:15
Speaker
You're you have to be careful of what is conversation and what is manipulation. And I think that that's that's something like really an example. No, I mean, it's just when you when you're talking about like anything, really, I mean, anything we talk about on this podcast, you have to like come at it from like an analytical standpoint instead of just like, oh, I agree with you standpoint. You know what I mean? Interesting.
00:14:44
Speaker
I think that that's a really hard thing to do in life because I think that we as humans are just accustomed to, you know, roll with the punches and just kind of agree, agree to disagree. Like all those terms that we're, instead of just like being analytical about it and really like putting our own thoughts behind it, I think that's really hard to do if I'm being honest.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that in friendships, it's it's really easy actually to be manipulated. Yeah, totally with gaslighting, because I think it's a lot less about this, like sort of like like discussion and more about like the way that people make you feel. Yeah. And like the way that people mold you into thinking that you've done something wrong or that, like, I don't know that that you just like shooting down your confidence, like, or you need to feel guilty about something or whatever like that. That stuff is that's happened a lot.
00:15:40
Speaker
And, you know, like there are, I mean, there are definitely people like even from the last few years that I don't talk to anymore because I don't, I don't need that in my life period. And it's really easy to fall under that spell too. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I do know what you mean. Yeah. I mean, I can tell you my, in my relationship with my ex fiance and we don't have to go too deep into it, but like,
00:16:02
Speaker
Definitely a lot of gas lighting going on and like there was there was a lot of codependency to begin with So I was sort of like already really vulnerable And really really sort of like coded to be ready for it almost if that makes sense But I can tell you the the gas I think that it did to me I would not have been on the antidepressant that I was on if he had not gaslit me and
00:16:26
Speaker
Ben literally made me believe that I needed to go see a psychiatrist and get on a pill. And I did. And I did. If you were there, you remember this. When I look back on it now, it's wild to me because I think most people would think that I'm a really strong person, that I'm really extroverted, that I'm really confident, all the rest of it. That's what people would normally think about me.
00:16:54
Speaker
But I was in such a state in that relationship that he knew he could manipulate me and look why he did that I have no fucking idea and I'm never gonna know but he did and That was the first time that I really realized when somebody finally told me that that's what was going on I was like, oh my god, you're you're fucking right and I just didn't I didn't realize it, you know, yeah
00:17:15
Speaker
I definitely had a lot of boyfriends like early on after I came out that just said like, oh, you you're too emotional or you're too. Oh, my God. Like you're too you fall too hard or like you're like you you like me more than I like you. And like those type of situations where I was like, I I'm sorry. Like I can't help that. These are just the way I feel. Yeah, I don't know.
00:17:45
Speaker
It's so manipulative for somebody to be like, oh, you like me more than I like you. Instead of just being like, I don't like you. And walking away from it. Can we just be frank about it? And just be like, hey, I'm not really into this. I mean, like, okay, I guess not. Absolutely crazy. It was just, honestly, it was so refreshing when I met Michael, who is now my husband, is just
00:18:09
Speaker
we were very just upfront about our emotions and just like, hey, like I like you. Hey, I like you. Like it's it's not that difficult. I don't understand why people feel the need. I don't feel like I don't understand why people feel the need to play these like games with emotions. It's it's wild.
00:18:30
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think that gas lighters are typically going to be probably people who have their own set of mental issues that they need to deal with, right? And they have their own, they are people, you know, like hurt people, hurt people.
00:18:48
Speaker
And I would say that most people that gaslight are people that have been hurt themselves and they've learned it from somebody else. It just keeps going on and on because that's how abuse perpetuates itself. And so, you know, that's, that's what happens. But I think too, like it happens in even smaller ways, you know, like, um,
00:19:04
Speaker
For me, I was somebody who was always told that I was an anxious person. And this is my family, my friends, by fucking everybody. And so if I was ever just like reacting to something, like that in a way that my body inside just reacted, right? Like my body's just doing what it's doing and my brain is doing what it's doing.
00:19:24
Speaker
the number of times people have told me, just calm down or just take a breath or it's not that big of a deal or whatever. I don't think people understand how much that is gaslighting and how much that makes the person that is experiencing it, i.e. me, feel even worse about the situation and feel like I'm in some kind of a hole that I can't get out of because I'm just experiencing what I'm experiencing, you know what I mean? And that's just it.
00:19:52
Speaker
And it wasn't until I had a therapist, the best therapist in the world, Carrie, I miss you. It wasn't until I had a therapist tell me, you know what, Maddie, you don't have an anxiety problem.
00:20:05
Speaker
It wasn't until she told me that, that I realized once again that I was being gas lit by people. It's a crazy thing how gas lighting works. Absolutely wild. And honestly, like I said before, it's really easy to fall into. My God, yes. It's so easy to get inside your own head and just be like, yeah. It's like fucking Taylor Swift saying, I'm the problem, it's me. No, maybe it's not. Maybe it's somebody else.
00:20:34
Speaker
Right. Now, Andrew, I know that you've got some examples of gaslighting. Do you want to tell us about them? Yeah. So, so there's basically like, this is five, but I only put four because I thought the other one was kind of dismissive. So I only have, there, there are kind of like four main types of gaslighting. So the first one is coercive or coercion. So that's a really hard word for me to say right now. Coercion. Coercion.
00:21:00
Speaker
I'm not going to say it anymore. That word, gaslighting, is the manipulation of a person's reality in order to persuade them to do something by using threats or force. So this can take many forms, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, physical abuse, and even financial abuse. Usually there's nothing wrong with the victim.
00:21:21
Speaker
the coercion is the abuser's way of hiding something in themselves that they struggle with. That's it right there. There you go. It's kind of like saying, like for an example, it would be like someone being like, oh, we never have sex anymore. But they're really like dealing with like a sex addiction. Like that, you know what I mean? Like, it's that kind of a
00:21:44
Speaker
I'm going to take my problem and put it on you. You know what I mean? You're the cause for my problem. You are. Exactly. So the next one is outright lying. I think that we kind of understand what this is. So the gas lighter will use lying in order to establish power and control by positioning the grasp on reality as the superior to the victim. This can take many, many forms. In my opinion,
00:22:12
Speaker
unless you're dealing with a... How do I say this? Unless you're dealing with something that's very traumatic to a person that doesn't understand, I think lying is the worst thing you can do to a person because it makes them question their own reality. I think that sometimes people that are struggling with a
00:22:34
Speaker
a really devastating thing like sometimes maybe not telling them everything is okay because you don't want to gaslight them in a different way. There's a difference between not being selective in how you
00:22:50
Speaker
express something or maybe leaving out a couple of details that are, maybe you leave them out for a highly personal reason or maybe it's traumatic for you to tell them or maybe you just don't want to tell somebody about something and that's okay. You don't have to do that. But lying is something different. Lying is somebody asks you something and you deliberately tell them a falsehood.
00:23:14
Speaker
And that is the, it's breaking one of the most essential parts of what makes us human, which is, well, what makes us human in community, I should say, which is trust. You know, how can you trust somebody if they're lying to you? And the reality is, once somebody lies to you in one way, how do you know they're not lying to you in a thousand others? And that's the thing.
00:23:41
Speaker
I can't stand a liar. I'm gonna be honest. I understand why people feel the need to do it sometimes because they feel a certain guilt or like whatever, but like you need to come with the truth. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. I mean, yes.
00:24:02
Speaker
Anyway, we could have a whole, a whole episode about that. I know. All right. The next one is scapegoating. So I think we kind of all understand scapegoating, but scapegoating is the deflection of blame away from the responsible party and onto another person. I think we can kind of leave it at that. I think that we all kind of understand that.
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, um, yeah, I maybe did this thing but they did this really worse thing, right? Very popular in games like werewolf or Mafia title type of things And then finally the last one and probably the most manipulating one and I've never had this happen to me I don't know if maybe you have but like I
00:24:42
Speaker
really reality questioning. Reality questioning and manipulation are what people typically think of when they hear the term gaslighting because this is kind of the basis for what the term was coined. It's kind of what the whole movie in play is based on. But this is basically like using your psyche to really think that people
00:25:05
Speaker
are not that they believe something that's not there or that they like remember something that didn't happen. Like it's it's it's it's creating an alternate reality for somebody. Yeah, it's within the matrix. Yeah. Like and you know, like the what you said earlier about about the movie Gaslight, like, I mean, it makes sense. Like, you know, he's using, you know, different different different levels of the gas lamp to make her think that maybe and I haven't seen the film, but maybe she thinks that that she she adjusted it, but she didn't or something like that. Right.
00:25:33
Speaker
And I think that that's probably where where gas I think becomes the most sociopathic most likely is it's just I mean imagine actually like taking the time to do that to somebody like that's it's it's it's evil like that that is that is insanity right there.
00:25:49
Speaker
If that is your definition of a relationship, then you need to think differently. Well, I mean, that that's just the thing, though, is I think that for some people, like that is how they love. And yeah, no, that's that's the scary thing. And
00:26:04
Speaker
You know, it takes time as you grow in your life to learn that you have to really get to know somebody before you attach yourself too quickly. We've all made mistakes in that way. We've all gone too fast in certain relationships and found out that... Some people never learn, though.
00:26:23
Speaker
Well, some people never do. But I mean, it's, you know, most of us have, if you haven't, you know, cheers for you, but like most of us have. And you find out eventually that somebody is not really who you thought that they were or maybe who they said that they were. And that doesn't always mean that they're a gas lighter, I'm not trying to say that. But it does often mean that you can run into some pretty disturbing things and gas lighting might be one of them. And so, go ahead.
00:26:49
Speaker
No, and I just wanted to say I see this so much in a lot of my... I don't know how to say this without making a... Go ahead. Yes, I see a lot of straight girl relationships where they just assimilate to whatever their partner thinks. Yeah.
00:27:17
Speaker
I've had so many relationships with straight women, and I'm sorry, this is not all women. I'm not trying to say that. I've had so many relationships with straight women that once they get in a relationship with a kind of toxic guy, they just fall into this
00:27:39
Speaker
like way of thinking that when I knew them, they would never think this way. And it is so disheartening, and I've lost a lot of friends this way, to where I'm just like, you're not the person that I was friends with anymore. And I have to let that go if you're gonna continue down this road. And it's really heartbreaking.
00:28:05
Speaker
I had someone in that was supposed to be my wedding party that basically was not my wedding party because she went with her husband's way of thinking. So, you know, it sucks. And I want to just encourage people to just think for yourselves and just make sure that you let me ask sure that you're with a good person. Do you think that she was gaslit or do you think she believed that?
00:28:32
Speaker
No, she's definitely gaslit for over a long period of time. Is she still with that person now?
00:28:38
Speaker
Um, I think so. I've heard rumblings, though, that that's not working out. But oh, really? God, I wonder why. I don't I don't talk to that person anymore. So it's only here. Say so much for the sanctity of marriage. Right. Right. Yeah. Look, I mean, we've I'm going to stop saying we've all because we haven't all. But those of us who have had relationships with either people that are friends,
00:29:04
Speaker
or partners, or even in your family. This is extremely common. You know how painful and how abusive it really is. And you put together a good list here of popular phrases that might be a sign that you're being gaslit by somebody.
Coping with Gaslighting
00:29:20
Speaker
Why don't we have a look at these? Yeah, you go first. Sure. Let's see. You're at fault. Or you're so sensitive.
00:29:31
Speaker
Uh, heard that one about a million fucking times in my life. You, you must be confused again. That's a, that's a good one. Um, you're being trapped. Isn't that, isn't that one interesting? She's backbiting. Uh, I had to look up what this word meant. Um, so just for people that don't know what backbiting means, it's kind of like talking about someone behind their back.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yeah, basically. You're upset over nothing. Oh, God, I've heard that. You're you're remembering things wrong. It has to be so fucking manipulative to hear someone say like, no, you're remembering it wrong. Like, well, I mean, so here's here's the thing. Right. Is like what's interesting about about some of these phrases, though, is like they can be both ways. Right. It's it's a two sided sword. So like you're at fault, for example.
00:30:20
Speaker
Motherfucker, there's plenty of times somebody at fault. I'm going to tell your ass you're wrong or or for example, you're remembering things wrong. Like, no, no, I remember how it was, my friend. And you're lying right now. But but it's just it's it's the way that a gas lighter will manipulatively turn these phrases on their head at at at at at at any subject.
00:30:44
Speaker
to make them believe that they're doing something wrong. That's when this stuff becomes crazy. Some other ones here are, it's always something with you. You need help. You're overreacting. And my personal favorite, calm down. Yeah. You need help. That's...
00:31:05
Speaker
We all need help. Let's be honest. I will tell you, there was a professional interaction just this week where somebody told me to take a breath and I said,
00:31:18
Speaker
And I had to text a friend who was actually in the conversation and I was like, do not tell me to take a breath. Like I am actually fully calm over here. This is a situation that needs to be dealt with. So like telling me take a breath as though I'm like freaking out when you can't even see my face right now. Do you know what I mean? It's like,
00:31:36
Speaker
How about no? This was over a call? It was virtual. We weren't talking to each other in real time. It was a situation going on and someone told me and another couple of people to take a breath.
00:31:52
Speaker
as though we were freaking out, and I'm like, we're not freaking out. This is just a thing that we have to deal with, so maybe don't do that to people. I would never start the conversation going, or I would never respond to somebody and go, all right, take a breath, everybody. We have to be calm here. No, I'm going to assume that you're coming at me with the best of intentions instead of thinking that you're something else. Do you know what I mean?
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, or making somebody feel that you're like that you're being too anxious by bringing something up. Like, come on, dude. And in most of those situations, the thing that you guys are actually like talking about is probably so banal.
00:32:32
Speaker
Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, actually, I don't really care, but I'm trying to care. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, you know, you don't just because you think somebody is always anxious and always is always, you know, live wire, like that isn't necessarily true. Like sometimes it's actually your own bias that's making you believe that. And you want to control the situation so much that you're just gaslighting somebody to believe that they are. And that's I think that's wrong.
00:33:00
Speaker
And I think especially in professional situations, you shouldn't do it. Yeah, I love when people are like, so in my profession, when people are like, if this could be escalated, that would be fantastic. And I'm like, well, everything is escalated. Just like, you know what, you guys, like everyone just for real, like everyone, everyone, let's just look at the reality of the situation and figure it out.
00:33:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, meet somebody else as a human and not as somebody to just do your bidding. Exactly. So, look, gaslighting is pretty terrifying. A title of the episode. And there's so many more examples that we could go through. I mean, I would just say that if you think that you're the victim of gaslighting, you know, think about it. Go talk to somebody. If you're feeling weird about the interactions that you're having in a relationship and you feel unsafe, go try to go to a therapist. And if you can't go...
00:33:56
Speaker
If you can't go see one, look for one online. Andrew, talk to them. I've got a coffee, it's water. No, you can go basically anywhere or you can go on betterhelp.com. No, we're not sponsored, but yes, you can go to that place and figure out who to talk to and understand that you are not alone in the experience because
00:34:18
Speaker
Literally, probably everyone in the world has faced this probably at some point in their life, some point in time. So just stay vigilant people and stay yourselves because I think that that's the real manipulation of gaslighting is to make you feel like you're not yourself and that yourself is wrong.
00:34:41
Speaker
you know what? Sometimes we are wrong. Sometimes we are wrong, but you know, stay vigilant, be yourselves and make sure that you are upholding your values in, in all these situations. And also Andrew, stay hydrated in this dry, this dry season of allergies. It feels like a desert in my throat right now. My goodness. I will recommend the LaVolt cold
00:35:05
Speaker
a steam machine if you can find one. I need to get that. We run it every night and it doesn't make your room feel like a sauna, so it's great. Love it. Yes. Andrew, anything else on gas lighting you want to chat about?
00:35:19
Speaker
No, I think we're good. I think, you know, this is going to come out right after Valentine's Day. So happy Valentine's Day to those who celebrate. Be careful on that date, babe. Yeah. So listen, we'll end this first segment here and we'll be right back with what you've been watching, bitch.
Film Reviews and LGBTQ+ Themes
00:35:39
Speaker
Let's all go to the lobby Let's all go to the lobby Let's all go to the lobby To get ourselves a treat It's time for everyone's favorite segment It's what you've been watching, bitch What you've been watching, you gaslighting bitch
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah, if you were going to do it, I was going to say you lying bitch. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, well. But if this is your first time in the show, this is the part of the show where we literally talk about what we've been watching, reading, listening to all the things, even all of it, even though it's called what you've been watching. Sometimes we.
00:36:17
Speaker
are watching books. Yeah, right. Yes, exactly. Oh, boy. Maybe one day anyway. So, Maddie, tell me what you've been watching, you little bitch. Sure. So actually, one of the things that I watched was the original The Invisible Man. We're going to. Yeah, we're going to be talking about The Invisible Man from 2020 as one of our
00:36:44
Speaker
one of our choices for
00:37:01
Speaker
I got like the big pack of universal monsters on Apple TV or whatever. So that was just one of them. I just never got around to watching it. So it was the perfect time. Look, if you've never seen The Invisible Man from 1933, it's wonderful. Claude Rains stars as The Invisible Man to quote Rocky Horror Picture Show. And it's really good. It's campy as hell. But it's interesting because the special effects in it
00:37:29
Speaker
really hold up so well. They go for it if I remember right. Oh my god, from 1933, it's like it's kind of amazing that they pulled this thing off. So really, really interesting stuff. Clarence from It's a Wonderful Life is in it. Hello. And I just I had a lot of fun watching it. So
00:37:49
Speaker
Well, if you have not seen it, watch it. It is wild. The invisible man himself is so fucking weird. He's a weirdo. And doesn't he murder like an entire train of people? Yeah. And like he he laughs a lot with this really very odd laugh. But it's it is it's fun. It's interesting. And if it's if it's one of the one of one of the horror canon that you two have missed,
00:38:14
Speaker
Go watch it right away because it really is quite good. The Invisible Man from 1933.
00:38:20
Speaker
Cool. My first one is Dance Life on Amazon Prime. I love me a good dance show. And this one did not disappoint. This is about a dance school in Australia, in Sydney. And this is not like your typical dance school. Like this is like you drop out of high school to go to this dance. Wow. This is like your entire life. Like
00:38:47
Speaker
And I think they did like a statistic and it's like 95% of the professional dancers in Australia and the like, uh, like sub Asian, you know, down, you know, down in that area, like anyone that is like.
00:39:04
Speaker
in some sort of like professional dance company or music videos or like whatever, like 95 percent of them went to the school. So it's like it's intense. It's like the what do you call that? What's that school in New York? It's like Juilliard. Yeah. For Australia, essentially for dance. And these kids are so fucking talented. Like I cannot even describe. And it kind of just follows basically like
00:39:32
Speaker
After coming out of COVID, it covers that next semester, essentially. Figuring out how we get back to normal. I think that COVID was very different in Australia because of what they did to mitigate, so a little bit different than America.
00:39:54
Speaker
But they got back to normal much quicker than we did. And this was just very interesting to watch. And the kids that they follow, it's just a really good little documentary series. I highly recommend it. I hope it comes back. It's on Amazon Prime.
00:40:12
Speaker
Um, if you like any of those kind of like dance type shows, you're going to love this. It kind of filled a little hole for me, um, that I was missing. I don't know if you remember this, but like there was a show on Netflix. It was a fictional show. It was called tiny, pretty things. Yeah, sure. And it was about a ballet company in Chicago, actually.
00:40:33
Speaker
And it got canceled because of the pandemic. And this was kind of felt like a almost like a sequel to that show, but like just like a real documentary about it. So I highly recommend it. It was uplifting. I think it's only like eight episodes. So you don't have to like devote a lot of time to it. But if you like dance, you'll like the show dance life on Amazon Prime. Interesting.
00:40:57
Speaker
Um, my next one is called all of us strangers. Have you heard of this yet? Um, I want to see this movie so bad. Okay. Um, it was in limited theaters here, but I just learned that it's going to be on Hulu on February 22nd. So was it, was it like, was it like music box?
00:41:16
Speaker
Yeah, it was like at select theaters. Okay, gotcha. Okay, so all of us strangers came out. Well, it just recently came out. Fun little facts. The premiere of the movie happened right by my house at Lighthouse Cinema.
00:41:32
Speaker
And it was funny, the day that it came out, so I'm a Loyalty Plus member at Lighthouse Cinema. One day they will sponsor us. But Loyalty Plus members got to enter a contest to attend the gala premiere. And so of course, I entered it immediately. And there was a party, and Andrew Scott was there, and Claire Foy was there, and Paul Meskal was there, and the director was there. And all the big LGBT people of Ireland were there, and the UK, everyone came over.
00:42:02
Speaker
Really really cool premiere. I was I went to a cafe Really close to the cinema that that very dated It's like get some work done and I had forgotten that the premiere was going on because I didn't win the contest of course But as I was walking by to go get dinner I saw the red carpet out and people were standing there and there were there were photographers everywhere and I was like, oh my god
00:42:23
Speaker
they're gonna do a red carpet. So I got to stand at the red carpet and I met Paul Meskal and Andrew Scott at the program. Wow. And I got some selfies with them. They are, man, they are salt of the earth people. Like they are genuinely fucking nice people. It was really cool. I also met the director Andrew Hay.
00:42:43
Speaker
So, all of us strangers, it's really good. I really can't wait to see it again. If you have seen Andrew Hay's Weekend, which God, I can't remember when that came out. It's at least five or six years ago now. Maybe like 2016, something like that. Yeah, it's been a while.
00:43:06
Speaker
a great movie, wonderful film. And it's just sort of about like these two guys that meet in London and spend a weekend together. That's all that it is really. And it was a very, it was maybe one of the first like real modern, like just takes on like everyday gay life basically. All of us strangers is very much in the same style. Paul Mescal is our main character and he plays a guy named Adam.
00:43:32
Speaker
Adam is a screenwriter, he lives in London, and he lives in this sort of new apartment tower where nobody else lives. And he is writing a screenplay about his family, or kind of about his family, you're not entirely sure, but as part of it, he goes back to where he's from, which is not too far outside of London, and he revisits the home where he grew up.
00:43:59
Speaker
And the movie sort of is just, it just kind of goes from there. He meets up with his mom and dad, and he also meets a guy named Harry, played by Paul Mescal. And so there are these two main relationships that he sort of is juggling between throughout the entire film. I don't want to give too much away because it would give too much away, to be honest. But what I would say is that, you know, the...
00:44:28
Speaker
I didn't leave the cinema hopeful, is what I would say, right? Oh, no. Well, but no, that's okay. I don't think it's supposed to be. And I don't think I'm alone in this take, although people do have different takes. And you should be careful what you're reading about this, because if you read too much, you will get the twist and you don't want to have that happen, trust me. So don't read too much about it.
00:44:53
Speaker
What I can tell you is that this is a really good observation of like sort of gay reality. And I think it's really good into a fantasy while also sort of being a fantasy. And it's kind of hard to explain. But once you see it, I think you might get what I'm saying.
00:45:10
Speaker
Um, so, you know, I didn't, I didn't leave thinking, you know, Oh my God, I have so much hope for the world now or so much, so much more hope for my life. I think I just felt like this movie is one that maybe saw me as, as a gay person. Um,
00:45:26
Speaker
as a queer person, and I really appreciated that. So I enjoyed it. I'm going to end it there. Just go see it whenever you get the chance, whether you get to see it in a cinema or on your TV. I would say if you get the chance to see it in a cinema, you should. There are just some good cinematic moments where a really big screen is going to help you just kind of live into it even more. But even if you don't, it's okay. Watch it at home. That's what I plan to do as soon as I can get it streaming.
00:45:55
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, this one's a little bit harder to get to, especially if you don't live in like a big city. Yeah. But I do know that by the time this comes out, it will be almost on Hulu. So it's going to be on Hulu on February 22nd. Nice. So we'll look forward to watching it. Speaking of one that I missed in the theaters, but finally got to see because on Peacock, one that you talked about a couple of episodes ago is the Holdovers.
00:46:26
Speaker
Paul Giamatti, a bunch of people. But basically the plot, if you didn't remember what Maddie told us, is basically there's these kids that are at a school and they can't go home for Christmas break. And there is a teacher and a cook that stay behind and kind of take care of these kids.
00:46:46
Speaker
And it goes from there. It's a coming of age story, if you will, no matter if you're in your teens or in your, I guess for Paul Giamatti, he's probably in his fifties, for like 40s, 50s. Yeah. Really enjoyed this film. I thought it was very poignant. I wasn't so on board with the kid if I'm being totally honest.
00:47:10
Speaker
Um, I thought that his story was fine, but like the adult stories I thought were really, really thoughtful, especially the, especially the cook. I thought that her story was like Jesus heart wrenching basically. Um, yeah, no. And you know what? I,
00:47:29
Speaker
I kind of joked about this movie a little bit as we were watching it, because like it is kind of funny because like they kind of hit you over the head with like, hey, did you know this takes place in the 70s? It's the 70s. Did you know? Yeah, like I thought that that was kind of funny for like an Oscar nominated film that they had to like really like, hey, every once in a while we're going to hit you with a record drop from the 70s. But overall, I had a good time with it.
00:47:58
Speaker
I don't know how I feel about the ending, but I'm glad that
00:48:04
Speaker
I'm glad that Paul Giamatti's character got something out of out of like what he was trying to do, how it came to be. I'm not totally square with, but I'm going to leave it at that because I don't want to get, you know, I listen to a podcast. It was what is it called? It was fresh air on NPR and Paul Giamatti was was the guest and and he was talking about how
00:48:31
Speaker
He was talking about playing this character as opposed to playing probably the other character that he is most known for, which is Miles in the movie Sideways. Or Sideways. Sideways? Sideways. It's plural, right? Yeah, it's plural. Which is another movie that I really, really love from of course. Cabernet. Yeah, from of course the same director, Merlot.
00:48:53
Speaker
Um, and, uh, and like he, he was saying about how much, how much more fun it was to play this character, how, how much richer it was and how playing miles in, in sideways was like miles is just so miserable. And like, and even, even like near the end, he's still, he's still kind of miserable. Well, he's very smug. Like, yeah, it will end smug, but it, but it comes from, it comes from a place of deep misery inside of himself.
00:49:20
Speaker
Yeah. And like, you know, in this character, you know, it's it's there are a lot of similarities to Miles, but he was talking about how just more redemptive this guy was. So it was it was interesting to hear. But I'm glad you liked it. I thought it was a really good movie.
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah, I liked it quite a bit. Like I said, I'm not like totally on board with the resolution of the film, but but still enjoyed the ride getting there. Yeah. My next one is Masters of the Air and Masters of the Air is on is on Apple TV plus. If you've seen Band of Brothers and the Pacific, this is the next installment in that in that in that series, right?
00:50:01
Speaker
Band of Brothers, I absolutely love the Pacific, pretty much about the same level of love. I mean, really just two shows that were exquisite. And I talked about them both before actually in the segment and in some earlier episodes.
00:50:20
Speaker
And just did a great job of really accurately portraying the horror of World War II and how awful it was. But then also too, just how much American soldiers gave up and how much they sacrificed. I use the phrase liberally here, but to save the world from the evil of the Nazis.
00:50:39
Speaker
And Masters of the Air is about, of course, like the airborne. And so the guys who are flying bombers over Germany to drop the big bombs that helped to win the war. I haven't watched the whole thing yet. Nobody has, of course, because it's only on episode four. I just finished episode four last night. Masters of the Air
00:51:00
Speaker
has a lot of great people in it, just like the other series did. Austin Butler is in this, Callum Turner, Anthony Boyle, Barry Keogan, and a whole bunch of other really good-looking men. So they're all cute, just like in all of the other ones, too. Banded Brothers, they were hot. The Pacific, they were cute, too. And Meshes of the Air, they're really good-looking.
00:51:22
Speaker
Um, the only thing though, with this one is it's just not catching me in the same way. And like, I don't know if it's maybe going to pick up or, and I really can't even put my finger on what it is. Like it's filmed. Well, it's, there is some excitement. I don't know if it's, if it's the dialogue, I don't know if it's the acting, I can't figure it out, but it's just not hitting my nerve in the same way that the other two did. So, you know, look, we're only on episode four. I'm hopeful that with, I think.
00:51:51
Speaker
I think there's probably four more, maybe five more, maybe six, that with the rest of the episodes, it's gonna turn it around for my little heart. But even if it doesn't look, it's a monumental thing to make, and it's an important story to tell. So I'm sort of like half and half on this one. I would say if you've watched the other two, Band of Brothers in the Pacific, like yeah, you should watch this, there's no reason not to. But we'll see how it turns out, I don't know. Do you feel like it's maybe being forced a little bit?
00:52:21
Speaker
They maybe didn't maybe they didn't have enough time to develop like the story, because I feel like the Pacific just came out like not too long ago. And between Band of Brothers and the Pacific, that was a long period of time. So I mean, the Pacific came out at least 10 years ago, I want to say.
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah, but in between, though. Yeah, I know. You know what I mean? But this one, like, I don't know. Look, I mean, it's it's Carrie Joji Fukunaga. Like, I mean, this and like and the actors that I just listed. Right. I mean, like Austin Butler. I think Austin, but besides being good looking like Austin Butler is a fantastic actor. Fucking his Elvis was insanely good. And Callum Turner is a fantastic English actor. Anthony Boyle from Northern Ireland, I think, is really, really good. Barry Keogan. We know how good he is.
00:53:07
Speaker
So, like, that's all solid. The direction is solid. Maybe it's just the writing. That might actually be it. I don't know. But I just find myself getting bored with these episodes. And that is just with a show like this, that's not where you should be. So, I don't know. We'll see. I don't know. All right. Well, my next one is The Trust, a game of greed. I've heard of this.
00:53:31
Speaker
Um, so listen, so this, this, this show is a reality show on Netflix and here's the basis of the show. So there are 10 people, I think 10, um, maybe 12. I'm not sure. I can't remember, but, uh, they basically go on this show and they are all told you've already won. Here's, uh, I think it's $250,000. You can all split it.
00:53:56
Speaker
all good, like all good to go. Or you can vote people off and split it amongst less people, basically. And so like the premise of the show is like not all that interesting, if I'm being honest, like it's kind of like, OK, like people are going to backstab, whatever. But the thing about this show is the people that they cast are
00:54:23
Speaker
Wild really insane like there is one little twink on the show That it basically comes on and it's like oh my god. I love brunch. I am a millionaire State and I come from privilege and I understand that I come from privilege, but I still want more money and oh my god And then the kicker I've been with my girlfriend for six years what?
00:54:54
Speaker
And then there's this other woman who is like, yes, I found myself during the pandemic and left my husband and became a super bitch. There's just like, what the fuck is going on here? I don't know where they found these people.
00:55:09
Speaker
But they are insane. Oh, my God. And honestly, that's what makes the show. So the show is honestly not all that interesting, like the premise and like how you like kind of navigate the show. Sure.
00:55:25
Speaker
It's no traitors, if I'm being honest. But the people that they cast, congratulations. You did a great job of pulling together some of the craziest people I've maybe ever seen on television. So if you would just want to see some weirdos play for money on Netflix, I recommend The Trust, a game of greed. That sounds ridiculous. My final one, Andrew, is Groundhog Day because Groundhog Day just recently happened.
00:55:55
Speaker
Yeah, you didn't see his shadow, so we're getting early spring. Thank God. But in this version of Groundhog Day from 1993, one of the best years for movies of all time, might I add, Punxsutawney Phil does see his shadow over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseam because that's the story of Groundhog Day starring Bill Murray. Woodstock, Illinois, baby.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yep. Look, I love this movie. I've loved it from the first time that I saw it. I've seen it countless fucking times. Like I'm sure a lot of us have. I watch it every year and I realize I didn't watch it on Groundhog Day. So I got it in last night actually. And I just fucking love it. It's so good.
00:56:36
Speaker
It's Bill Murray, you know, and just that classic Bill Murray era when he was just doing movie after movie that was just really fucking funny. Andy McDowell, as usual, being Andy McDowell, that curly haired bitch, Chris Elliott being himself as he always is. When is he when is he ever anybody like Chris Elliott? Harold Ramis is in the movie, you know, on and on and on. It's just it's such a great movie. And I really forgot
00:57:03
Speaker
like some of the smaller moments that are really funny in the movie. Yeah. So like if you remember, like, OK, so it's like he's he's he's woken up at this at this point, like at least 100 times. So he knows everybody in town. And they're there at breakfast and he's trying to tell Andy McDowell's character, like, this is what's going on. And let me prove it to you. This is this guy. This is this girl. This is this guy. And the waiter comes by and he's like, I forget what I forget his name. He's like, this is Tony. He hates his job. And he's gay. And the waiter goes, I am.
00:57:33
Speaker
It's so funny and I forgot that even happened. And it's just, it's lovely. It's a great movie. It's a great movie about love and in a very, very weird way that only I think a Bill Murray comedy could do. But God, I love it. And it was just so much fun to watch again.
00:57:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. AMC now does this thing every year where they just play Groundhog's Day all day long. Sure. Groundhog's Day. So it was on. Michael happened to be off that day. So we love it. And I kind of forgot like.
00:58:06
Speaker
that like this is almost it's borderline is almost about like obsession over love. But like it's it's a it's a weird one. I think it's I think it's a great comedy. But when you start to get below the surface, you get a little bit like, oh, is this weird? You know, like like like most of the things in the 90s were I know.
00:58:33
Speaker
All right, so my last one is Dicks, the musical. I can't wait to watch this. This is currently on Max or HBO, Max or HBO, whatever, whatever it is to call it. This was recommended. I listened to Las Culturistas, which is Matt, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang and Bowen Yang is in the movie. So of course he's talked a little bit about it. So I was like, piqued my interest in seeing this movie and then it was on Max. So I was like, yeah, we'll watch it.
00:59:04
Speaker
Oh my God. I got to tell you, this is right up my lane when it comes to humor because it is so satirical and so dry and so ridiculous.
00:59:17
Speaker
that like, let me just tell you this. Megan Mullally plays one of their, so basically the premise of the movie is that these two twins are working at a company that merges together and they discover that they are brothers.
00:59:34
Speaker
and so then it's all about them figuring out like hey you look like me hey you look like me we're twins and then they go and then they do like kind of like a parent trap thing where they go to like meet the other uh mother slash father because they split up when they were kids
00:59:50
Speaker
Um, that's like the loose premise. Listen, that's very loose because this movie doesn't rely on like a lot of like, it's, it's more ridiculous. It's think like wet, hot American summer. The musical. Like, okay. Got it. Um, like for instance, Megan Mulally plays the one of the mother and literally her pussy fell off. What? Oh my God. Jesus Christ.
01:00:17
Speaker
And Nathan Lane plays the father and he has sewer creatures as pets. So just listen, that's all I'm going to say. I don't want to give too much away, but I have to tell you, we watched this on a Sunday afternoon and I was crying, laughing so hard. Like it was so. And listen, my sense of humor tends to fall on the more sarcastic, dry, ridiculous side of things. So like if you like that kind of thing,
01:00:47
Speaker
You gotta run, not walk to go see Dicks the Musical. I love it, yes. Well, Andrew, I think that's it for what you've been watching, bitch. You brought us Dance Life on Amazon Prime, The Holdovers on Peacock, The Trust, A Game of Greed on Netflix, and Dicks the Musical on Max.
01:01:09
Speaker
And Maddie brought us The Invisible Man 1933, which you can probably find pretty much everywhere in a lot of places. Yeah. All of us strangers, which I think is in current limited theaters, but will also be on Hulu soon. Masters of the Air on Apple Plus and Groundhog's Day, which is currently streaming on Netflix. So folks, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode. Let's scare Jessica to death.
01:01:38
Speaker
Let's have a seance. Why not? Don't you believe in spirits? Nothing's ever completely dead. I'm calling on the spirits of everyone who ever died in this house. If you're present, give us a sign. Give us a sign.
01:02:08
Speaker
All the dead come to us. I didn't do it. I didn't do it.
01:02:35
Speaker
Well, Jessica is your good friend and you're being really mean to her because you're going to scare her to death. So that's it, Andrew. Just tell us about the movie.
01:02:45
Speaker
Nightmare or sanity, which is which? Newly released from a mental ward, Jessica hopes to return to life the way it was before her nervous breakdown.
'Let's Scare Jessica to Death' Analysis
01:02:54
Speaker
But when Jessica moves to a country house with her husband and a close friend, she finds a mysterious girl living there who may or may not be a vampire. That's giving a little bit away, but
01:03:07
Speaker
Jessica's terror and paranoia resurface as evil surrounds her, making her wonder, are the visions real or is she slipping back into madness?
01:03:18
Speaker
Directed by John D. Hancock. Wow, is that really his name? Yeah, that's funny. That's like just like the signature. Written by John D. Hancock and Lee Calchum. Production and distribution were handled by this was so funny. I saw this in the thing and I was like, this is a real thing. The Jessica Company and they're out. Jessica is played by Zora Lampert. Emily is played by Marle Claire Costello.
01:03:47
Speaker
Marie Claire. Oh, sorry. I saw an L instead of an I. Duncan is played by who I thought was Doug for the longest time in this movie. Duncan is played by Barton Heyman. Woody is played by Kevin O'Connor. Girl is played by Gretchen Corbett. And Sam is played by Alan Manson. This is rated GP, which is now PG. It comes in at 89 minutes. It was released on August 27th of 1971.
01:04:14
Speaker
filmed in Connecticut with a budget of about $250,000 and a opening weekend profit of about $48,000. That's unfortunately the only budget we have for the movie at this point anyway. Maddie, have you seen Let's Scare Jessica to Death before and what are your initial thoughts? No, it's my first time seeing it and I hated it.
01:04:41
Speaker
No, I'm lying. I loved it. Let's Go, Jessica to Death is a really great little film. It's an absolutely bizarre, bizarre movie. But also like a warm hug. Oh, it's so eerie. The atmosphere is incredible. And there's very little wrong with this movie. I'll just say that.
01:05:05
Speaker
The movie begins with a line that is Jessica getting out of the back of a hearse because these people have a hearse. It happens sometimes. They're hippies. And she runs out of the back of the hearse into a graveyard that they come upon because she's going to go do a grave rubbing. And what she says, this is the first line of the movie is, I'll just be a minute. And then the next line of the film
01:05:33
Speaker
is Woody, which is the close friend that we heard about in the plot, talking to Duncan, who is Jessica's husband. And he says, don't worry, the farm will be good for her. And I think that those two lines really sum up the movie in a lot of ways when we think about the lens here of gaslighting, right? So you've got a woman who's just come out of being in an institution for her mental breakdown.
01:06:02
Speaker
We don't really ever find out exactly what exactly happened to put her into that state. But she was there for six months. Yeah, but we don't necessarily need to. We hear a little bit about her father dying. Maybe that might have had some sort of influence on what happened to her. But regardless, there's just something about this woman that is now back in the world.
01:06:28
Speaker
And she says, I'll just be a minute, just sort of taking her time. And then two men saying, she'll be good on the farm. There's something about that that just frames all of it up for me when I look a little bit deeper into this movie. They go to this very odd trio. They go to a farmhouse in what you sort of believe might be either Connecticut or upstate New York. The car's plates are in New York.
01:06:58
Speaker
but it was filmed in Chester and East Haddam, Connecticut. The house, by the way, is still there. You can go see the house. And from what I understand, they've added a widow's walk onto the roof. Oh, let's go. Yeah, I wish we had known about it for our trip last year.
01:07:17
Speaker
But an incredible movie that does a great job of creating atmosphere, maybe better than most films if I'm being honest. The way that it takes you through the autumn in New England is just exquisite. The people in this little town, they are their own special little monsters. We'll talk about that later.
01:07:39
Speaker
But even the way that the director just creates this group of people in that little town, it's just cool. Everything just feels authentic in this movie. Even though it feels so bizarre, even though it's very clearly highly stylized at some moments, it still manages to feel super authentic. And even with, if we're being honest here, Andrew, the very,
01:08:08
Speaker
Bizarre acting from Zora Lambert. It's like, I mean, her voice does some things. Oh, my goodness. And like her. She has a very unique vocal quality to her. And the way she her octaves are like 10 times lower than everybody else in this movie. Very interesting stuff. And, you know, I don't I don't know Zora Lambert. I really don't. I've never seen anything else that she's in. I don't know if that's her normal vocal quality.
01:08:36
Speaker
or if this is just put on for this particular character. And I do think
01:08:41
Speaker
that maybe a little of it must be. You know, she was sort of playing the vocality of somebody who's just coming back into the world after being sort of sucked out of the world for six months, which is pretty traumatic for anybody if you think about it. So I kind of went with that interpretation of her vocal range in this film, but it is bizarre. There's no way that you watch this in 2024 and think that like, oh, she's just speaking normally.
01:09:09
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but even that doesn't take you out of it. Like instead for me, it really sort of drew me even further in. I don't know if it did that for you or not, but like it made me get even more in sync with her character and how she was sort of.
01:09:26
Speaker
I don't know, like in her own orbit and these other people weren't. And obviously the gaslighting that takes place with her from everybody in the movie is just wild. Everyone tells her that she's not seeing this thing or that nothing's wrong or that she's going crazy again, none of which is true. And the story itself, I think, is really bold. I mean, they go to this house in the middle of nowhere
01:09:54
Speaker
appears to be a very, you know, pastoral sort of house out in the country. It's big. It needs a lot of work, but, you know, it's kind of cool. And they get there and there's this woman there that obviously shouldn't be there, and they end up keeping her around. And the stuff that happens after that is just crazy. It's so wild. And honestly, you don't, like, you can't see the story happening ahead of time, if it's your first watch. Like, I don't think there was any way to, like,
01:10:23
Speaker
know that, oh, yeah, Emily's a fucking vampire. Like, yeah, you should go into this with as little information as possible, which is what I did. And it worked out well.
01:10:36
Speaker
So you get me the this is my second time seeing this movie. I blind bought this movie at a horror con on Blu-ray because I had heard about it and had wanted to see it. And man, I got to tell you, this might be one of my favorite movies that we've watched. Yeah, it's so good.
01:10:57
Speaker
I don't know what to say to like, really, this just felt like a cozy, warm blanket of a movie. And and for how crazy it is, that's something to say, like the plot is insane. But there's just something about the way they filmed this. And there's just something about
01:11:20
Speaker
the way that they do certain scenes, like when they're at the kitchen table together or when they do the impromptu seance, which is insane because I guess it's 1970 and we just do seances now, but there's just something...
01:11:36
Speaker
These actors must have been around each other a lot during the production of the movie because you just feel like they get each other in a weird way. Just understand each other's emotions or how they emote. I don't know, there's just something about it that draws me in. Then we get the creep factor of
01:12:00
Speaker
Abigail and how she was drowned in the cove behind the house. Yeah. And those moments where Jessica sees Abigail in the water and the way that I don't know how they filmed that in 1970, but I can only imagine it's just like a woman out of the water. But it's it's it's so eerie and so scary if I'm being agreed.
01:12:25
Speaker
that you're just like drawn in and then by the end when you learn like the entire plot and you learn that the entire town is in on it and you start to see like all the scars and like all finally because like you kind of are like led to believe like hey did you see like why are all those men bandaged and like all these things and like
01:12:47
Speaker
And then by the end of the movie, you even see that the truck driver that takes her to town when she's in distress, even he on the other side of his face that she can't see has a scar. And then you learn that this fucking lady is a vampire. Emily is Abigail.
01:13:07
Speaker
and she's a vampire that's been there for ages because they ask her when she first, when they first get to the house, they're like, Oh, how long have you been here? And she just, she says something like very benign. Like she says, Oh, I've been here for ages. Yeah. And it is just the plot of this movie. I don't know how they came up with it, but
01:13:27
Speaker
It is. It's great. I fucking love this movie. Yeah. I think that this is a perfect installment for gaslighting because there are such moments in like at the very beginning where she sees the blonde girl in the graveyard and in her own because you get a lot of like inner dialogue with Jessica. Yeah. She says, don't tell them. Act normal.
01:13:53
Speaker
And then later on, she's like, she sees, I forget what she sees, but in her own inner monologue, she says, don't tell them they won't believe you. There's a lot of that. So she's been trained to think that she's crazy. And she probably does have some faculties loose, but
01:14:12
Speaker
It's not all made up in your head, Jessica. And you do have like something going on. And it takes too long for them to believe her until they're all fucking either a vampire or dead in the case of Woody. And there is something quite subversive to about, you know, analogizing gas lighters to be in vampires. And and it just makes sense. Good point. Yeah. It makes sense when you think about it like they are
01:14:40
Speaker
They can be either energy vampires or in some cases even physical vampires. And that just spells it out right there for you. So I think you're right. It's such a good choice for thinking about gaslighting in a film context. I thought it was... Some of the reactions of the main actress of Jessica, I thought it was so funny when they first go in the house and she thinks that she saw someone
01:15:08
Speaker
And then Duncan basically says like, no, I saw her too. And Jessica like gets excited. I know that she's like, oh, my God. Yes, I did see something. I'm not crazy. And I'm like, OK, you're going to get killed here in a minute. The funniest part of the movie, what's not funny, but like the strangest part of the movie for me was actually something very little.
01:15:28
Speaker
And it's when they're at the dinner table and fucking Emily is just like, oh, I'm going to play my fucking loot here real quick. Yeah. And that bitch is not. Let's just put this out there right now. She is not playing that loot. Yeah.
01:15:43
Speaker
Her fingers are not even moving on the fretboard and like like her fingers on like like where you would actually play the thing are like Barely moving and like there is this intricate lute song going on and I'm like number one Where did your ass get a lute in the middle of nowhere? It's a lute It's not a banjo not a guitar motherfucker got a lute
01:16:07
Speaker
And then he has like a full on like cello. Oh, and yeah, it's it's a stand up bass. He brings it. I'm like, what the fuck? Jesus. He's with the Philharmonic. Oh, gosh. Yeah, that that seems. And then there's some weird stuff in that scene, too, where she's like, he wants her. Yeah. And then when she sees the steak on the plate and she's like, it's blood, Jessica, blood like.
01:16:39
Speaker
There's another part two where they're at the dinner table and Emily is making up the story about a killer cake in Scotland. Do you remember this? It's very odd, I do, yes.
01:16:53
Speaker
And when the cake, it swallows people, it's kind of like the blob, it swallows people up and she's talking about this and then she has this line where I just like laughed out loud because she goes, when it gets to the door, it knocks on the door and it goes, I'm not the cake. Like what the fuck?
01:17:13
Speaker
Like that is part of the charm of the movie, too, is like this is just a little hippie. Yeah, host. It's a post 60s, 71 like peek into what sort of like free love kind of turned into in the 70s. I mean, they're bathing in the in the lake.
01:17:34
Speaker
Yeah. And one of the little trivia points, too, is that they they filmed this in like late autumn. And so they were saying that like the water was really cold for all of them. And so like the first time that they do it, when Jessica's in there, she's like, OK, I'm done. Like, I think like she was actually just fucking cold. She's like, actually, no, I'm fucking the actress. Get me fucking out of here.
01:17:54
Speaker
Um, and you're right. You mentioned the water parts earlier. The water parts are done so well. That coming out of the water. Holy shit. My God. There are two scenes that made me so uncomfortable in this movie. The first one is where Duncan and Jessica are in bed and they're just having like this discussion about like,
01:18:18
Speaker
where Duncan is like, I can't do this anymore. Like you go see a doctor again, blah, blah, blah. And then Jessica's just like, well, fine, leave me, leave me, leave me. And just like they have like it's it's so.
01:18:32
Speaker
just like accurate. Like it feels like just like two people. Like it doesn't feel like it's like scripted. And then the other part that was really uncomfortable to me was where Emily and Jessica go to the lake because Emily says like, you need some sun, like you need some fresh air.
01:18:51
Speaker
and she's like putting lotion on her and then all of a sudden she's like putting lotion on her face and then Jess is like okay I'm good like all good like don't eat anymore and then Emily pushes her in the water and then she's like dunking her in the water yeah and then she's like and then she's like oh sorry I didn't mean to scare you I was just trying to play around and I was I was like
01:19:11
Speaker
I don't know about you but like as a kid that was like bullied in this specific way sure yeah i got really uncomfortable i was like what is happening like this is really freaking me out yeah it was it was it was uncomfortable to watch it really it really brought you into the scene.
01:19:30
Speaker
And you felt the distress that Jessica was feeling because I mean, yeah, I mean, people have done that to me before. And you know, Andrew, that I'm terrified of the water in a lot of ways still. Like, don't do that to people. And it's interesting the way that Emily played with her.
01:19:46
Speaker
You know, if you get right down to it, Emily could have just killed them all, right? She could have just done it. She plays a long game. She plays a long game, but somewhere in there, she gets pleasure from drawing the entire process out. So it does make you think like, it's not just that like, okay, I'll take it back a little bit first.
01:20:08
Speaker
and just say what a unique vampire movie this is. We've never seen a vampire like this before. A vampire who doesn't use their teeth, they use a knife and they have to slice a part of you open to get the blood, I guess. That's what it is. Have you seen a vampire like that before?
01:20:26
Speaker
Um, I can't think of anything. I can't think of any. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe there was, but that's, that's new in itself, not, not 1971. I'll tell you that much, but I mean, like maybe Emily also is like an energy vampire, like maybe like playing with her prey first. Like she's sucking that energy out of them. Maybe she's getting some something out of that.
01:20:44
Speaker
too. Well, she she plays with all of them in certain ways. She does a lot of it. A lot of it is seduction between like Woody and Duncan, but also with Jessica. It's all about manipulation and making her feel crazy. I guess like it's just like her her pleasure in this process. Get that vampire bitch off. You know what I mean? She is getting off on it.
01:21:07
Speaker
I do love the turn of Emily, too, though, like when Woody comes back from like spreading the pesticide and he's like all disheveled and he comes back and he's like, Hello, Jessica, Emily, but and he comes back in the house and she just comes down the stairs in that wedding dress and she is like.
01:21:28
Speaker
You're just like, Oh God, she has changed. Like, because up until that point, you know, Emily seems like a very, I don't know, until she seduces Duncan, she seems like a very innocent bystander.
01:21:44
Speaker
She just seems like a hippie chick who just kind of goes along with everything. And I think that's part of it. For our modern context, we're not used to that kind of thing. We're not used to pulling up to the house you just bought and there's fucking somebody there. There's somebody spotting.
01:22:01
Speaker
No, no big deal. Hang out for dinner. You know what I mean? And then to go even further to say, you know what? We've all talked about it and you're going to stay with us like that would never happen today. You know what I mean? And none of us can even imagine that context. But like, look, some of my sisters, you know, they're of that generation. They could imagine it. You know, it's it's it's really it plays with with with our own reality of how we believe these things could happen.
01:22:27
Speaker
Yeah. And then towards the end, you know, I love when she runs up to the ferry and the guys just like fairies not running for you. Oh, and then you see his scar, too. And then everybody there. And then what does Jessica do? She gets her own damn boat because she's an independent woman.
01:22:46
Speaker
Yeah. And then, you know, and then, of course, you know, we have to believe that that Jessica survived all of this because she's telling us at the end, I can't, you know, as I sit here, I can't believe everything happened. Yeah. Right. And so so she does get away after she, you know, kills the vampire of her husband, I guess. We're not entirely sure about that, basically.
01:23:04
Speaker
I don't really think anybody dies except for Woody. He's the only one that really gets killed. Everyone else has turned into another vampire. And like even even him, maybe he maybe he's a vampire later. Who knows? I don't know. Well, I will say there is a.
01:23:21
Speaker
If you watch this movie, pay specific attention to the part where Jessica finds Woody on the pesticide tractor, because it is hilarious how she is getting pelted by that liquid. I was watching it again today and I was like, wow, just maybe you can.
01:23:40
Speaker
I don't know if you'd noticed it but like so there's the initial part where she's running up behind the tractor and she's obviously getting hit by the liquid but then there's also the part where she finds the body and she's out of the liquid but then she stands still so the tractor catches up and she just gets
01:24:03
Speaker
I can't imagine that this actress understood what was about to happen because her surprise when she just gets like pelted by the liquid. It's so funny. You know, there are a lot of people on Letterboxd who are saying that this would be a good double bill with Messiah of Evil. Have you seen that movie? Yeah, I have seen that. How do you how do you feel about that?
01:24:27
Speaker
I think that this is a better structured movie than Messiah of Evil. I think this movie makes more sense than Messiah of Evil. It definitely is of the same ilk. Yeah. But Messiah of Evil, I tell you, I saw it last year at the Davis when they did their horror movie marathon. That's a fucking weird movie like it does not.
01:24:55
Speaker
It does not string together as well as this movie. That's all I'll say. Interesting, interesting. Huh.
01:25:02
Speaker
But, um, yeah, I just, I don't know. This is a comfort movie for me. I really like it. It makes me feel like, Oh, I could go live on a farm and get my cell phone in a drawer and you have to look at it ever again. Right. Right. And I was telling Andrew before we started recording that I bought the film because it was only a dollar more than renting it. So I think I bought it for like 4.99 on Apple.
01:25:27
Speaker
And I'm really glad that I did, because this is one that I know I'm gonna come back to many times. And I'm already anxious to watch it again. I might even watch it again tonight just for fun, because there's just a lot of little points in it that I wanna return to. It's a movie, I think you're right in saying that it's a comfortable film. And I think maybe the reason why it feels comfortable is because we're people who love fall,
01:25:53
Speaker
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And like it does so well at like just being in the fucking autumn in New England, which is just, which is lovely. And nobody, nobody is like, I don't know how to say it, but like everyone's acting is like, just like, Oh,
01:26:11
Speaker
It's it's it's a very quiet film and like and and I Maybe it's just me getting older now, but I gotta tell you like I really appreciate quiet films I appreciate films where I don't have to be banged over the head with everything. Do you know what I mean? Right? Yeah, and like that's how
01:26:28
Speaker
That's how so much of modern film is now. It's loud. It's in your face. It never ends. It just keeps going, going, going, going, going. But this is a slow burn. And it's really quiet most of the fucking film. It's not really until the last act that things pick up in such a way that you're like, holy shit, what's going on here? The rest of it is just like, ooh, easy pacing, getting there. And it's just bringing you into the insanity that Jessica feels. Not that she is, but that
Film Rating and 'The Invisible Man' Review
01:26:57
Speaker
she feels.
01:26:57
Speaker
And then before you know it, bam, you're in it too. Yeah, totally agree. So here at Fraggy the 13th Horror Podcast, we judge on a seven stripes scale for the seven stripes, the good, good old gay rainbow. Maddie, what do you give us? Let's scare Jessica to death. I gave it a six and I said that this film nails it on so many levels. It's bizarre, it's eerie, and it's honest to goodness, terrifying.
01:27:22
Speaker
I also gave it a six. I said, this movie is like a warm blanket of terror. Bizarre, scary, and all around just a solid mystery horror. So folks, that does it for Let's Scare Jessica to Death. Stay tuned, and we'll be right back with The Invisible Man. As the attorney representing Adrian's trust, I'm required to read a prepared statement. Cecilia, although our relationship was far from perfect,
01:27:52
Speaker
I thought that you would talk to me rather than run away. Are you okay? What happened to him?
01:28:01
Speaker
He cut his wrists. Per his final wishes, you're getting five million dollars. Contingent, of course, on the fine print. He can't be ruled to be mentally incompetent. It just doesn't make any sense. What? Adrian wouldn't kill himself. Listen, you're getting your freedom back, okay? Don't let him haunt you. Hello?
01:28:34
Speaker
I'm scared. You'd have to be scared of him anymore. He was a sociopath, completely in control of everything. He said that wherever I went, he would find me, walk right up to me, and I wouldn't be able to see him. Are you okay? Someone's sitting in that chair.
01:28:59
Speaker
I found something that can prove what I'm experiencing. You need help. Adrienne is dead. I went to his house today. He's not dead. I have a pile of ashes in the box that would disagree with you. He has figured out a way to be invisible. The only thing more brilliant than inventing something that makes you invisible
01:29:25
Speaker
This is coming up with the perfect way to torture you, even in death. Adrienne's true genius was how he got in people's heads. Don't come any closer, hey! I'm not crazy. Hello? I can hear you, but I can't see you. You must be invisible.
01:29:49
Speaker
Maddy, tell us all about the Invisible Man. What you can't see can hurt you. When Cecilia's abusive ex takes his own life and leaves her his fortune, she suspects his death was a hoax. As a series of coincidences turn lethal, Cecilia works to prove that she's being hunted by someone nobody can see.
01:30:12
Speaker
The Invisible Man was written and directed by Lee Wanall. Produced by Blumhouse and Screen Australia, distributed by Universal. Cecilia, played by Elizabeth Moss. Adrian, by Oliver Jackson Cohen. Emily, by Harriet Dyer. James, by Aldous Hodge. Sydney, by Storm Reed. And Tom, by Michael Dorman.
01:30:37
Speaker
It is a rated R. It's 124 minutes. Comes out of Australia and the U.S. Released February 28th of 2020. God, seems so long ago now. What a time. Really, God, it really is crazy. Filmed in Sydney, Australia. The budget was $7 million. Made a cool $145 million. Not a surprise. Obviously, this is not a first-time watch for either of us. But Andrew, this time around, what'd you think?
01:31:04
Speaker
Yeah, so actually, famously, The Invisible Man was the last movie I saw in the theater before COVID. Oh, was it really? I didn't realize that. So. So wait, did you see it like that February 28th weekend? I think I must have either that or the weekend after. So that's wild. Wow.
01:31:21
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I think that this movie, it kind of took me by surprise because I think at this day of bloom house, because our bloom house, however you want to pronounce it, I think I've heard, I think we've been correct stuff. Whatever, whatever. Um, um, also, by the way, Andrew, can I just say we have some lovely people that love to correct us on things and they love it. When we get your messages, we're always like, thank you. Thank you for this. Yes. Yes. Always love it.
01:31:51
Speaker
But so I saw this movie, really liked it. I forget where I was going with this, but like, I think that like this time around, I still really loved the movie. I think that for me, in the modern sensibility of when this movie takes place,
01:32:12
Speaker
I just wanted Cecilia to take more action. We can talk about when we get into it, but she did frustrate me a little bit. She gets it by the time she goes into the nursing facility. She understands the assignment, but there are a number of times where I'm like, Cecilia,
01:32:34
Speaker
You have a phone, take a picture, take a picture, take a video, text somebody. Like, you know what I mean? Like a little bit frustrating. But overall, I just I think that this is a very well deserved like place in this kind of like.
01:32:52
Speaker
dark universe or whatever that they're trying to do with like these old um characters from like frankenstein and invisible man and the old universal monsters yeah like this is the right way to do this you know what i mean like yeah to make it more modern and i think that
01:33:09
Speaker
the limited amount of use of special effects work really good in this movie. For how fantastical of a movie it is, it makes sense in a weird way. I have a ton of fun with this. I think Lee Whannell, if you've ever seen Upgrade,
01:33:28
Speaker
Um, if you like this movie, you should watch upgrade because there's like an extended like, uh, action sequences just like in the God, it's not a police station. It's the like nursing home. I can't really think it's like a corrective facility that she's like the action sequence that happens in there. That's so good. Yeah.
01:33:49
Speaker
I mean, like, the movie is so incredibly well made. Like, this is probably the finest. And it looks good. Oh, it looks incredible. This is the finest bloom house or bloom house, whatever you want to say. The finest bloom house out there. That's what I was going to say. Sorry, I got off track.
01:34:04
Speaker
I mean, it's just, it's, it's, go ahead, go ahead. But no, back in the day, like back in the day when you saw Blumhouse or Blumhouse, so however you want to say it, you thought quality, like you were like quality and like slowly over time, that feeling has kind of dissipated like a lot as a lot of things go. But then like this comes out and you're like, Ooh,
01:34:25
Speaker
They're back, baby. Truly, absolutely incredible. It's made so well. For me, there's very little wrong with this movie, to be honest. There are certainly some things that frustrate you, and I think that's almost by design. I wonder what you were saying earlier, like not using the phone or whatever.
01:34:46
Speaker
I wonder if part of that is is like literally what what she was planning, you know, and by she, I mean, I mean, the director. I think like the the the way that, by the way, oh, he he sorry, the way that the whole opening sequence just just rolls with it. Right. Oh, this is does not.
01:35:07
Speaker
to pull any punches. It gets right to the point. But the way that it begins and the way that Cecilia has to escape this complex of a home, it's so well done because it shows you this woman. It's obvious. I know it's elementary when we think about the movie, but it's important. This is something that she has been planning
01:35:28
Speaker
not for like a day, not for a week, not for a month, but she's probably been planning this for like a year, maybe even longer. There are so many complicated steps to take to get out of this place. And she is clearly so terrified, but she has finally made the moves to get the fuck out of there.
01:35:45
Speaker
We don't know what's happened, but in some ways it's almost better that we don't. She is so clearly terrified of this man that she is willing to sacrifice her own body to get the fuck away from him.
01:36:00
Speaker
And it's just so well done. And that's just one scene. And this movie is a collection of scenes that are masterfully done. You just said it right there. The whole action scene at the corrective facility. Incredible work. The scene where Sydney gets slapped. Incredible. The dinner with the sister. Oh my god.
01:36:21
Speaker
fucking shit. I remember when I first saw this movie, whenever that was, that scene blew me out of the fucking water. When that knife slits that throat and winds up right back in her hand, holy fucking shit. Incredible. One of the most intense moments I've seen in cinema in a long time.
01:36:44
Speaker
And and then and then also the final scene itself when she finally when we get one of the greatest comeuppances in in in film, when she executes her plan to kill this motherfucker and not just get revenge, but to get fucking justice is what she really does. Surprise. Oh, my God. It's incredible. And the way that she does the phone call and then immediately gets off the phone and just watches him die.
01:37:10
Speaker
Oh, my God. So, so good. The only thing I will say about that at the end, because I was I was thinking about it this time, it was I was like, is she not going to wait for the police? Like, because she called 911. So I'm like, isn't that going to seem a little weird that she fled? But I'll be a little bit, but whatever. But by the end of it, you're so happy that she actually wins the day.
01:37:33
Speaker
that it's wonderful. And, you know, look, it's back to our gaslighting theme here. This is a great film of showing just how gaslighting can happen in family. I mean, really, this is all family in the end, even if whether it's extended or by marriage or whatever. But like the way that her sister and the way that her entire family gaslights her
01:37:55
Speaker
even even when they don't even mean to, you know, like they just don't believe her. And that's and that's gaslighting, too. Yeah. So I have a question and I don't know if you have the answer, but I will pose it anyway. So so so James, the the cop who she's staying with after she escapes, did
01:38:18
Speaker
I didn't quite understand that relationship. Did she know him before? There's an implication that when the sister comes over, she basically says to the sister, hey, you can't be here because he knows where you live and he could follow you. That's when she tells him that he killed himself.
01:38:41
Speaker
They seem so comfortable together like James and the girl and our main character Cecilia. It felt like they were like old friends but like that doesn't make any sense given that she's there to be protected. You know what I mean? To me it felt like they were family and so I think that
01:39:04
Speaker
I mean, and I was actually it's funny that you're saying this because I was thinking of it too. I was like, was that relationship actually ever codified? Right. I think in my head, I was thinking that the sister and James were together and that Sydney was like her niece. That's how I read it unless I'm completely crazy.
01:39:22
Speaker
I don't know. So I think that that maybe is maybe the one flaw of the movie is like we don't truly understand the relationships. And I think that that's like, honestly, to me, that's the it's the biggest flaw of the movie, but it's it's only a little flaw, in my opinion. Yeah, sure. Is that like, I don't truly understand all of the relationships outside of her and her sister. And even with her sister, I kind of don't really understand the relationship because when she picks her up,
01:39:50
Speaker
literally on the side of the road at the beginning of the movie, she's like, what's going on? What's happening? And I'm like, you didn't tell her about this. Like you just said to her, pick me up on the side of the road at three a.m. Like, I mean, the way that I read that is that she is in such a state of surveillance that she can't say anything.
01:40:12
Speaker
yeah i get it i just i kind of think that like i wish we just got a little bit more on the relationship side of things because this movie is really about at the end of the day relationships and trusting people and understanding like
01:40:29
Speaker
I think that that maybe misses the mark just a little bit for me. I think that understanding the relationship between Cecilia and Adrian because we don't really quite understand. I mean she says to us like he was physically, emotionally abusive. I just wish that like
01:40:48
Speaker
We got a little bit more understanding of what that relationship was like because literally the opening of the movie is her escaping. So Lee actually talks about that and this apparently comes from the commentary and the note that I have here is Lee Whannell chose not to have an opening establishing Cecilia's predicament with Adrienne and this is quote,
01:41:08
Speaker
because I wanted to just drop the audience into Cecilia's situation without any backstory and make them feel everything through her. Luckily, I had Elizabeth Moss, who is very good at communicating a lot to the audience without saying anything. That damn Scientologist. I know, right?
01:41:26
Speaker
But I mean, like she's good. For me, I think it works. And another thing that I was thinking about today, because I do feel you on this. But one thing I was thinking about as I was getting ready for the episode was like, there is something interesting about like, OK, we don't know really what happened. But when we're thinking about a woman who's saying that she is in grave danger, do we do we believe her or not? Sure. No, I don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you're that you're. No, no, no. But like,
01:41:56
Speaker
I'm it is it is interesting to think about just in context of the story like oh wait a minute if this were like if this were my sister or if this were my friend or whatever and like I didn't know anything but they were like I'm in trouble help me like how would I feel about it you know like what I would I question them what I think like what the fuck is going on or would I just be like okay I got you let's go you know what I mean
01:42:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, I I can see it both ways. Like, yeah, sure. I think that it's only my my internal structure is I want to know more like I always want to know more. So like, that's like that's why a movie like this is challenging for me, but I still. Sure.
01:42:34
Speaker
So I still totally enjoy it. Like I can't. Well, the other thing, too, is I actually forgot how long the movie was. I mean, it's it's two hours, two hours, two hours and four minutes. And it doesn't feel that way. They don't waste any time. They don't waste any time. But also, too, like, I mean, it's almost like if if he was going to establish more relationship stuff, it'd be even longer. We probably need another half hour. You know, and I think that that that's where it would probably get too long.
01:43:01
Speaker
I would imagine. Then it's like a TV show. It's a great way to put it. You would almost need it to be episodic so that you could keep the rhythm of it going almost. It would almost just be too much for one movie, I feel like. Yeah, I feel you on that. A couple of things I have in my notes.
01:43:21
Speaker
I put in this one, I really like the credits at the beginning. Like when the waves are splashing up and you kind of get like the silhouette of the of the credits. I thought that was really, I mean, listen, motherfucker put me and I will live in that house all the live long day. What an amazing place. Bring it on. If I could hear those waves all night, I probably would be able to sleep. Yeah, for real. Incredible.
01:43:44
Speaker
I also wrote at the house, by the way, in the opening sequence, I said, oh, my God, just leave the dog. Like, I get it. He's got a collar on, but motherfucker, just go run. Leave the dog. That's that's off the alarm. What do I have? It's like, why do I have this in my notes? You are close to him. He's.
01:44:06
Speaker
Oh, I liked that part with the brother where she goes to meet with him the first time and she's like, not really believing that he's dead. And the brother is like, uh, she's like, he feels like close, you know, like he feels like all he is. He's in that turn right there. I love that.
01:44:24
Speaker
And I do like the swerve of the brother being in the suit. I do too. When she shoots him in the house. I think that that's a really interesting way to like subvert the audience's expectations. It's unexpected. Yeah.
01:44:41
Speaker
Because you do have a moment where you're like, oh, shit, it was the brother the whole time. Like he was like getting revenge or whatever. And then you kind of get the last scene of the movie. But I just thought that that and the manipulation of the news in this movie, too, is so interesting because it really does show that like with enough money, you can make anything happen. Like, I mean, honestly, wild.
01:45:08
Speaker
Like if you're a person who has enough money, you can solve pretty much any problem in the world in which we live right now, which is terrifying in itself. Yeah, I don't know if you notice this, but like when she goes to the hospital for the first time after she faints at her job interview, there's a man that's wheeled out in the middle of the hospital and he's bandaged just like the original.
01:45:33
Speaker
Oh, no way. I totally miss that. Yeah, he's like he's like wheeled out and she kind of like makes eye contact with them and they show him and he's bandaged up just like the original. I guess I want to watch it again for me. Another one that you have in our notes here is that Adrian's door code is 1933, which was when which is great. Love that. I think that that's I love little things like that where they don't hit you over the head with it. But it's like if you see it, you see it like I don't know what to tell you.
01:46:01
Speaker
It's funny to like, apparently, Armie Hammer and Alexander Skarsgard were the were the top choices for for the for the for the titular role. Can see both. I think that Alexander Skarsgard is a little bit on the nose because of not pretty little liars. Big, big little lies. I think that that's a little too on the nose. It's funny. I mean, I've seen the movie before, of course, but I totally forgot that Oliver Jackson Cohen was was the person.
01:46:29
Speaker
And I really did in my head think it was army hammer. So reading that note, I was like, Oh, there you go. That's funny.
01:46:36
Speaker
Um, I think that, uh, when she takes down, um, the brother and she's like, Oh, I just realized something about you. You're just like him, but you're the jellyfish version of him. No spine. And I was like, damn girl. And she like throws the, she throws the papers on the floor and then grabs the pen. And then that ends up being like a whole other thing. But I was like,
01:47:00
Speaker
That's when I really get on board with Cecilia, because then she finally like takes action into her own hands and like fucking does the job because there's a part, especially like where she gets an Uber or a Lyft all the way to the house to go try to figure out what's going on. She finds the suit, she activates the suit, she watches the suit activate and then she hides it. And I was like, girl,
01:47:28
Speaker
just either take the suit or like put it on or take a video of it or something because this is your evidence like yeah no i agree that part frustrated me and i'll just say like that was the only scene in the movie where i was like girl what are you doing because like
01:47:44
Speaker
there's so many parts where she's so smart where she like there's the part where she thinks she like sees something so she grabs that can of paint and like throws it on him and you see the invisible man for the first time like she's a smart character yeah so like that part i was like what are you doing and obviously it pays off at the end because you get that awesome scene where she you know kills the guy but like
Superpowers and Technological Themes
01:48:08
Speaker
That part for me was like, what are you doing? Yeah, no, I do get it. You know, I wonder to like. And it's like I'm trying to find ways to defend her almost like. Yeah, I wonder. I wonder. It's like she was living in such a like a.
01:48:25
Speaker
I don't know what the word I'm looking for is. But yeah, a state. She was living in a state for so long, and I don't really know how long, but clearly for a while. And it's almost like I wonder how much of her faculties were diminished because of it. Like, sure.
01:48:40
Speaker
Yeah, when you live under somebody's thumb for so long, it's almost like you don't really know how to live in the world. So it makes you question like, OK, well, how often was she really able to take photos? Was she able to text people that often? Was she able to do this, that and the other thing? It's like it's it's almost interesting to like if you take your frustrations with the film and sort of pin them back to Adrian, it like almost like enhances the quality of it, if that makes sense.
01:49:06
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I get I get. Yeah, I think it's just like my own. I get it. Yeah. I mean, because there has to be something frustrating about a character or there wouldn't be the tension there. Yeah, I cannot say no. You mentioned the suit. Like just to talk about that, the suit is fucking cool. I like that this is like a real thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Because in the original Invisible Man, if I remember correctly, it's like a potion. Yeah, or something like that. Yeah.
01:49:36
Speaker
I like that this is explainable. You know what I mean? I do like that about it and I think that's what gave such a mystery about the first time watching it is you're like, is he a ghost? What's going on here? And by the time you get to what's actually going on, you're like, wow.
01:49:57
Speaker
Actually, that actually seems like it could happen in the near future. Exactly. It seems plausible. And I was really thinking about that on this on this watch because I haven't watched. I haven't watched this in at least a year and a half, maybe even longer, like.
01:50:13
Speaker
It's it's something that I see the suit that's made of cameras and I don't know how it works whatever but like my first thought was oh god that could come out like next year like for real like that's that's where we are in the world now and that's that adds to just to the to the horror of the film knowing that this is something that actually could happen.
01:50:33
Speaker
And there's always that question for kids. If you could have one superpower, what would it be? Could you fly? Would you have superhuman strength? Or could you be invisible? It's something that for many of us gets posed to us as a fantasy question when we're really young.
01:50:54
Speaker
But like, think of the havoc that you could create if you really were invisible. Think of the the terrible things that you could do. Think of also the good things that you can do. But it's it's wild to think that like, I don't know. It doesn't seem that impossible to me anymore, that like in a couple of years, there might be a fucking invisibility suit. Who the fuck knows? You could also turn into hollow man. Yeah, right. Oh, my God. Hollow man. We'll get that into the show somehow. We'll see.
01:51:20
Speaker
Oh, anyway, I personally would choose telekinesis because I'm lazy. So good point. I don't know what I would choose anymore. I got to think about that. Not sure. I just want to be Carrie. So that's fair enough. Yeah, make fucking I'm going to light shit on.
01:51:36
Speaker
Fire baby, fire. Anyway, Maddie, we think we've talked this movie to death. What do you give The Invisible Man 2020? It is a double six in this episode for me, another six here. I said I love this film. It's a masterful take and reboot on the original. It takes one through the terrifying motions of everyone thinking one's insane, only to deliver one hell of a satisfying end.
01:52:02
Speaker
I'm almost there with you. I gave it a five point five. I said, I wish there was a little bit more context around the relationship, but this movie still rocks. Solid effects, intention building compounded by a solid action revenge flick. Nice. Well, folks, that does it for The Invisible Man. We'll be right back to close out the show.
01:52:21
Speaker
Shante, you stay. Shante, you stay. Shante, you stay. Shante, you stay. Shante, you stay. All right, folks, that does it for episode 115. But before we let you go, we are going to close it out with a game, very complicated. It's called a Hottie of the episode. And it's where Andrew and I tell you who we think in either one of these films, who is the hottest. So Andrew, I will let you go first.
01:52:48
Speaker
My hottie of the episode comes from The Invisible Man. Tell us. And it is James Aldis Hodge. I think that that is a very muscular, very good looking man. And you can be my personal bodyguard any. Nice. Mine's also from The Invisible Man, but it's not who you're thinking. Who do you think it is, actually?
01:53:17
Speaker
I would think you were going to go with Adrian. So actually, no, although he's a very attractive person. Funny enough, I actually think that the brother is really kind of sexy. Oh, OK. So Michael Dorman is his name. And I haven't actually watched a lot of the movies that he's been in, but I'm going to watch more of them. It's very like it's very like succession of you. Yeah, it's it's weird. I like I wouldn't normally make that choice, but something about him just I don't know. It makes sense to me. So that's my hobby of the episode.
01:53:46
Speaker
Cool. Well, that's our game for the one. So a little couple of things just to close out the show. You know, if you thought that the last hour and a half slash two hours of this conversation was worth your time, you know, consider maybe a little.
01:54:03
Speaker
gift to the pod. You can either do that by buying merch or joining Patreon for a dollar, literally a dollar. So you get basically every episode for 50 cents because we have two episodes a month. So it's a dollar people. Like we, I know that it doesn't seem like a lot, but to us, it does really mean a lot. So maybe just consider it easy. You can do so by going to frag a 13.com slash support or look us up on Patreon.
01:54:29
Speaker
And folks, if you if you've already given to us or if that's just not on the cards for you right now, no big
Podcast Reflection and Listener Appreciation
01:54:35
Speaker
deal. We understand. Do us a favor. Leave us a review. We've been out for six years as of this episode, and we don't have enough reviews, quite frankly, to to match that if I'm being honest. So if you are one of those people, one of our loyal listeners who has not yet left a review or if you're new to the show and you like what you heard, please go leave a review. If you didn't like what you heard,
01:55:00
Speaker
Don't go fuck yourself. Just just just stop listening is my advice to you because this is what they always are. No, but for real folks, look, well, I think we'll end the show this way just by saying it's it's you know, we had our we had our big five years last year and our hundredth episode and our big trip and everything. You know, this year it's it's just nice to come to it to yet another anniversary, six years of having a great time together, creating a show that we really love.
01:55:26
Speaker
and doing it for you. And at the heart of it all, we've said this a bunch over the years, but I'll say it again, is that we get to be in community with all these people around the world who also love horror in the same way. So thank you for being a listener. Whether it's your first time or whether you've been here for all six years, we really, really appreciate it. Andrew, you want to say anything?
01:55:52
Speaker
No, I just want to say I appreciate you and I appreciate that we still make the time to do this because given the vast amount of changes that have happened in our lives over the last six years, I can't believe we kept this boat afloat. So me to me to totally agree. And it's something that we're really proud of. So we hope that we hope that you really love it because we love making it for you.
01:56:20
Speaker
So folks, as always, we're gonna end it with a phrase that we love to tell you every single time that you listen to the show. And that is, Andrew, that we want everyone here to go and get slayed.