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Whose Business Is It? The Power of Selective Vulnerability
41 Plays10 months ago
The Queens break down the myth that women must be endlessly open and emotionally available to be "worthy" of love, and practical ways to vet whether a man is emotionally safe before opening up.
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Transcript
Introduction and Vulnerability Discussed
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only dating podcast on the internet.
00:00:05
Speaker
I'm your host, Diana.
00:00:06
Speaker
And I am Rose.
00:00:08
Speaker
And today we're talking about the big V. That's right.
00:00:11
Speaker
We're talking about vulnerability.
00:00:14
Speaker
Now, if your mind went somewhere else, that's on you, girl.
00:00:16
Speaker
That's a you problem.
00:00:19
Speaker
That's a you problem.
00:00:20
Speaker
Here at FDS, the big V, the most important V of all, is always going to be vulnerability.
00:00:24
Speaker
How much do we have
00:00:26
Speaker
How much should we share?
00:00:29
Speaker
And all of the sort of attendant risks that come with it.
00:00:32
Speaker
And this is something that in our pre-talk, Diana and I were just going over this.
00:00:35
Speaker
Like there's so many different environments where you have to sort of like take these risks, calculated or otherwise, whether it's professional, romantic, et cetera.
00:00:43
Speaker
But something we ourselves have been grappling with since we started the podcast is like, how much do we share with you, the listener?
00:00:51
Speaker
And I think that like that's part of the struggle because I mean, I think we always knew, as did anybody who's going to listen to this podcast, that we are not going to be like the past hosts.
00:01:01
Speaker
And that's just because we're different people.
00:01:03
Speaker
Like that's common sense.
00:01:04
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:01:04
Speaker
It's like we were never going to do it the way that they did it.
00:01:07
Speaker
So if people were expecting that it was just going to be an extension, like they were always going to be left disappointed because
00:01:13
Speaker
we're different people with different life experiences, you know, and we're off a different age, we've had different sorts of careers, we've lived in different spaces.
00:01:21
Speaker
So I think with a podcast like this, like what really helped with the previous podcast is like, I always had a sense of their background, but like their unique experiences was what actually added value for me.
00:01:32
Speaker
If it was just going to be generic dating advice, I don't think that like, I would have latched on.
00:01:36
Speaker
I think part of this podcast is the experience.
Real-life Dating Strategy Challenges
00:01:40
Speaker
like the experience of listening to this podcast, not just like the experiences of the women, but also just like going beyond just the dating and also talking about how this affects like real life.
00:01:50
Speaker
Because I think when we look at everything from a strategy perspective, one of the downsides, like I always think about how like the red pill is so choreographed, right?
00:01:58
Speaker
It's like every guy thinks that he's going to walk in a situation with women behaving in a similar sort of script and everything they answer is like to that script.
00:02:06
Speaker
But in real life, as you probably know, it's not that scripted.
00:02:09
Speaker
You know, like the way that people interact with each other is sometimes really sneaky.
00:02:13
Speaker
Like it's very hard to want to believe the worst of someone when you've been told from a really young age to not think of people that way.
00:02:22
Speaker
And so if you were raised in a sort of Pollyanna-ish, like, you know, believe the best and like look at the best in people, it's very easy to be taken for a ride because you don't want to see that people can have sinister intentions.
00:02:33
Speaker
You know, and that's the thing, like, we can only provide so much strategy as makes sense, you have to apply it to your own lives, because there's never going to be a script.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yes, a lot of men behave in similar ways.
00:02:43
Speaker
That's like a pattern identification thing, like you can definitely spot patterns.
00:02:47
Speaker
But to assume that every single man has the exact same line, like the way they execute that strategy and the way they manipulate you might be slightly different.
00:02:54
Speaker
This is so true.
00:02:55
Speaker
And this is such a good point, Diana, because as somebody who was brought up by the golden rule and like the Catholic doing to others, blah, blah, blah.
00:03:02
Speaker
I did have a very Pollyanna-ish attitude and I still do.
00:03:05
Speaker
And, but I went from the Pollyanna-ish upbringing to deep cynicism and despair.
00:03:10
Speaker
And then
Personal Journey and Privacy Importance
00:03:11
Speaker
I was like, you know what?
00:03:11
Speaker
I got to find a happy medium.
00:03:13
Speaker
I don't want to be despairing of every person I encounter, but I also don't want my Pollyanna-ish nature to constantly be taken advantage of.
00:03:19
Speaker
And I've been very pleased at how I forged like a middle path.
00:03:23
Speaker
where I'm still able to be authentically myself while also having my eye towards the various, you know, rationales and justifications and backgrounds people might be coming into the situation with, right?
00:03:35
Speaker
So I think this is such a good point with having our own backgrounds.
00:03:38
Speaker
I do love how we're always the east, east, west where the sun and the moon, right?
00:03:43
Speaker
Remember our signs?
00:03:44
Speaker
Fire and ice.
00:03:45
Speaker
Fire and ice, right?
00:03:47
Speaker
Like we were such good complementarian people.
00:03:50
Speaker
And I love that we can be both honest about who we are at the same time, understanding, you know, it's not going to apply to everybody, nor should it have to.
00:03:59
Speaker
But for people who are listening here, like you say, part of the journey is simply the unveiling of the hosts as we get to know them over time.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, and we're I mean, we're navigating that as well.
00:04:09
Speaker
Because it's like, you know, we were talking about this in another chat, I think, where we were talking about how everything has become so parasocial, and how people think they know you just based on like hearing a podcast every week.
00:04:20
Speaker
And it's like, yes, sometimes your brain is full of the internet, and you need to be able to be honest with yourself and know when that is okay.
00:04:27
Speaker
If your brain is full of the internet, you need to get out and like interact with people because even on this podcast, like we're very strategic about what we disclose with you.
00:04:34
Speaker
Like everything I say is not a hundred percent honest to my experiences BT dubs because you know, I've been very sneaky on this podcast, just FYI, because it's common sense to be, it's common sense to be, you know what I mean?
00:04:45
Speaker
Like we have private lives.
00:04:47
Speaker
We are entitled to those private lives.
00:04:49
Speaker
And so it goes to show that, you know, when you meet a stranger, like, because again, when we're dealing with an online audience, we don't really know who's engaging with us.
00:04:56
Speaker
But when I meet someone face to face for the first time, you have a living, breathing person in front of you now.
00:05:01
Speaker
And like, it's normal of you to not want to assume that they're sinister, just based on meeting them.
00:05:05
Speaker
Like, I don't go into the world and navigate with men assuming that they're going to be Ted Bundy.
00:05:09
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:05:10
Speaker
Like,
00:05:10
Speaker
I don't think that's a healthy way to live either, right?
00:05:13
Speaker
But that being said, you know, the reason we have a strategy is because it's supposed to be living, it's supposed to be mobile, it's supposed to be flexible, it's supposed to be something that's applicable.
00:05:22
Speaker
In a lot of situations where if you do enough pattern recognition, you can identify the threat.
00:05:27
Speaker
Like, we're not going to give you a script of like, this is exactly what he's going to say.
00:05:30
Speaker
And this is how you respond.
00:05:31
Speaker
Because the truth is that men are smarter than that.
00:05:34
Speaker
I hate to say it, but like, they're sophisticated in their manipulation, because they can be, they're not all going to be like saying the same shit to you.
00:05:40
Speaker
Generally, yes, it will sound somewhat the same.
00:05:43
Speaker
But like, to assume that there aren't going to be newfangled ways that they get one up on us is just like, laughable, you know,
00:05:49
Speaker
It's very naive.
00:05:51
Speaker
It's very naive.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's very naive.
00:05:53
Speaker
And like, that's not how people operate.
00:05:55
Speaker
And also, that's the thing, right?
00:05:56
Speaker
If you are a person who is very empathetic, and a person is like, it's very easy to engage you based on your empathy, based on like, you feeling sorry for people, you're going to get manipulated a lot by people, not just men, because people can see that.
Empathy and Manipulation
00:06:09
Speaker
Hi, I'm raising my hand.
00:06:10
Speaker
I'm raising my hand real high right now, Diana, because that's exactly what happened.
00:06:14
Speaker
You know, it wasn't just men.
00:06:15
Speaker
In fact, I think the hardest part for me was how often it happened with what I assumed were friends, because this is not gender exclusive.
00:06:24
Speaker
This is human encompassing because, you know, everybody has their sort of own agendas and
00:06:29
Speaker
Some people are very happy being the villain in your life story.
00:06:33
Speaker
And some people just, you know, are so hurt, the whole hurt people, hurt people sort of thing that camp that, you know, they can't think of you as somebody who bears recognizing as a fellow fragile human being, right?
00:06:46
Speaker
You're just a means to an end.
00:06:48
Speaker
And so I like that you bring this up again.
00:06:51
Speaker
This is not a script.
00:06:52
Speaker
We're not following a red pill formula.
00:06:54
Speaker
And I think that's why it has been so important
00:06:56
Speaker
enticing to so many women because that's what we all are realizing here.
00:07:00
Speaker
It's like, you know, we have all hoped for and been taught for so long that men are XYZ and women are sort of the Prometheus of the world.
00:07:08
Speaker
We hold everything on our shoulders, but yet we're not in charge of anything.
00:07:12
Speaker
How does that make sense?
00:07:13
Speaker
So I think we're coming to terms and the internet has been helpful with this.
00:07:17
Speaker
We're coming to terms with just like how diabolical the male project has been as concerns women.
00:07:22
Speaker
And of course, like with the last week, as we've seen in the United States, it's such a bunch of fuckery over here.
00:07:28
Speaker
And it's like very obvious that women are the linchpin upon which this whole machinery is based.
00:07:36
Speaker
Right.
00:07:36
Speaker
And anytime we start to deviate from the conventional path, we are endangering the status quo of patriarchy and capitalism, play stage capitalism.
Challenging Traditional Roles
00:07:45
Speaker
So think about this as like our freedom ride.
00:07:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:48
Speaker
This is our freedom.
00:07:49
Speaker
This is our ride to freedom.
00:07:50
Speaker
This is our push towards equity.
00:07:53
Speaker
That was the other thing.
00:07:54
Speaker
Like, there's just like another point I want to add here.
00:07:56
Speaker
Like, I think with the internet, like if you're here in the era of Tumblr and stuff, like we just live in oversharing age.
00:08:04
Speaker
I think a lot of people have gotten really used to pouring their hearts out on the internet.
00:08:08
Speaker
You know, ever since social media has become a mainstay of our lives, it's like what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate is like the lines are kind of blurred now.
00:08:16
Speaker
Because a lot of people will be like, you know, you're being too sneaky and cagey.
00:08:19
Speaker
And like, you're trying to be too mysterious if you don't share things.
00:08:21
Speaker
But at the same time, it's like,
00:08:22
Speaker
Well, for example, like this is the difference between high trust and low trust societies, right?
00:08:27
Speaker
Like, if you live in a low trust society, you are told not to share things with other people because other people will judge you.
00:08:33
Speaker
And so somebody who comes from a low trust society is not going to be very forthcoming with information.
00:08:38
Speaker
But someone who comes from a really high trust society, they're used to having community.
00:08:42
Speaker
And so they don't really think about like, how things are going to negatively affect
Trust Levels and Sharing Norms
00:08:46
Speaker
them.
00:08:46
Speaker
For example, like, you know, if you grew up in a very low trust society, and your family is like a shit show, the last thing you want is for people to know that your family is a shit show.
00:08:54
Speaker
And like, you know, the father's an alcoholic and the mother is divorced and stuff, because these are things that are going to not be advantageous to you, and they're going to work against you.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so people learn to be cryptic and quiet about their personal tragedies and just like have like a facade of, you know, function.
00:09:09
Speaker
In a situation where a high trust society where divorce is really normalized, that might not be something that people think that they need to hide up, you know, so cover up.
00:09:16
Speaker
So it's like what we learn that's appropriate is also very culturally specific, I think.
00:09:22
Speaker
And so, you know, that's the thing that you have to challenge when you meet men, because if you come from a high trust society where that doesn't seem like something strange to share, you'll just share it.
00:09:31
Speaker
But like, we have to talk about like, what is information that is appropriate to share with strangers?
00:09:37
Speaker
Because I think a lot of people assume that because you just started dating someone, it's like, well, I want our relationship to be one of trust and based on trust, which is, again, a very noble intention.
00:09:46
Speaker
But at the end of the day, you're still meeting a stranger.
Stranger Danger in Dating
00:09:49
Speaker
And so I think people think automatically that this is a very good way to bond.
00:09:52
Speaker
And like, if this person really loves me, then it should be okay that I share this really intimate and private detail with them.
00:09:58
Speaker
But like, again, the same safety strategy that would apply for a child being like stranger danger should be applicable here.
00:10:04
Speaker
Like stranger danger is applicable in dating.
00:10:08
Speaker
If you're in a situation where you feel like you have to like open your veins and bleed out in front of them for them to feel like you're truly being authentic, that should already be a red flag.
00:10:18
Speaker
Nobody should be soliciting that kind of information in the early stages of getting to know each other.
00:10:22
Speaker
It should be like,
00:10:23
Speaker
What do you think?
00:10:24
Speaker
White chocolate or dark chocolate?
00:10:26
Speaker
Are you a cat or dog person?
00:10:28
Speaker
Like Chinese or Thai?
00:10:30
Speaker
You know, I'm not saying that you can't have honest and authentic conversations, but like there is no need for you and nobody should be asking you about childhood trauma in the first few months of getting to know you.
00:10:40
Speaker
That's just inappropriate.
00:10:42
Speaker
And I love that you seized upon this word inappropriate and appropriate and high trust and low trust.
00:10:47
Speaker
I was absolutely 100% unequivocally inappropriate when I was coming out from my family home because I came from such dysfunction.
00:10:55
Speaker
And I was so desperate for validation.
00:10:57
Speaker
And I was so desperate to be seen and to connect.
00:11:00
Speaker
I thought that, you know, by sharing how awful my life was, people would also see how honest and noble that I was, how good hearted I was.
00:11:07
Speaker
Some people did and those are really meaningful friendships, but more people were just absolutely turned off and frightened away and rightfully so.
00:11:16
Speaker
But it took me a very long time.
00:11:17
Speaker
In fact, it took me through many years of therapy for me to understand like that was inappropriate.
00:11:22
Speaker
rose, they weren't acting in a rude manner.
00:11:25
Speaker
They were acting in an appropriate manner to somebody who they don't know who's sharing things that never should be shared, at least not at that stage of getting to know someone.
00:11:33
Speaker
So listen, I'm not calling anybody out for something that I haven't had to learn how to call myself out on a million times over.
00:11:40
Speaker
But I think you're absolutely right.
00:11:41
Speaker
Stranger danger is more than applicable.
00:11:43
Speaker
It's more applicable in dating than it even is with situations with strangers, I would say.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, I also wanted to talk about another thing like, you know, we often talk about the communal sort of culture of Eastern cultures and like the individualistic culture of Western cultures.
00:11:58
Speaker
And one of the things I think that Western culture, I mean, of course, I'm speaking very broadly, of course, this is not applicable to family to family.
00:12:04
Speaker
But like Western culture in general, children have more agency, their privacy is more respected.
00:12:10
Speaker
So like they're allowed to answer questions without giving too many details.
00:12:15
Speaker
But when I was a child, growing up in an Eastern culture, children are seen as extensions of their families, like and the family reputation is affected based on the actions of an individual person.
00:12:24
Speaker
So things that happen to you happen to the entire group.
00:12:27
Speaker
And so you grow up in a culture where you feel like you have to justify your decision making and the way that you think and feel about things.
00:12:33
Speaker
And I didn't realize until I was an adult, just how much I felt like I needed to justify my actions to other people in a very strange way.
00:12:40
Speaker
Like with my friends, like I would over explain my decision making and my process.
00:12:44
Speaker
Like when I was at work, for example, and I needed to take time off of work, I'd be like, well, I'd have to come up with like an elaborate excuse, even if it wasn't true.
00:12:51
Speaker
And I remember like I had a friend sit me down and be like, you know, you don't have to tell me the bloke.
00:12:54
Speaker
Like I don't need to know.
00:12:55
Speaker
And until that point, I did not understand why I did that.
00:12:58
Speaker
But it's because when you grow up in a culture where the expectation is that your actions affect everyone, and your agency and privacy as an individual is not looked at, you feel like you have to have a justified reason to explain your decision making.
00:13:14
Speaker
I call this surveillance culture within the family.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker
The way that that manifests in your relationships is like, again, I remember like in my early dating life, like I would feel like if I had like an okay date with a person, not even a bad date, just an okay date.
00:13:28
Speaker
Like there was nothing I could cry home about.
00:13:30
Speaker
Like there was nothing I could complain about.
00:13:31
Speaker
This person didn't mistreat me.
00:13:33
Speaker
This person wasn't rude to me.
00:13:35
Speaker
It was just an okay date.
00:13:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:37
Speaker
There was no sparks, nothing.
00:13:38
Speaker
I still felt like I couldn't deny them and say, oh, I'm not going to have another date with you because I was like, well, they didn't do anything wrong.
00:13:45
Speaker
And so in the interest of fairness, I need to subject myself to another date with this person, even though the lack of excitement should have been reason enough.
00:13:54
Speaker
But like, I didn't want to have the awkward conversation of having to justify my lack of interest.
00:14:00
Speaker
And so I was like, ah, what's the harm?
00:14:02
Speaker
I'll just go on another one, even though I knew I didn't want to, because again, it's in the interest of fairness, right?
00:14:07
Speaker
So the thing is, I think that most women are culturally conditioned to act in a way that is unfair to them, but seems fair superficially to other people.
00:14:16
Speaker
And it comes back down to like people pleasing also, right?
00:14:19
Speaker
It's like, oh, I don't want to upset anyone.
00:14:21
Speaker
I think like the older I got, the more comfortable I got with upsetting people.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:26
Speaker
There's two things I can compromise here.
00:14:28
Speaker
Either I can compromise my own sense of self-worth, dignity and respect.
00:14:32
Speaker
I can compromise myself or I can compromise
Self-Respect over Pleasing Others
00:14:35
Speaker
my relationship with this person.
00:14:36
Speaker
And if me advocating for my own agency, for my own privacy, for my own individuality is going to be a threat to our relationship, it's now that I've reached the stage where I can look at that and be like, well, maybe that's not a relationship I want to have.
00:14:49
Speaker
That's absolutely a way for you to judge, you know, is this a person worth getting to know more?
00:14:52
Speaker
And I love this idea of like fake fairness.
00:14:55
Speaker
Well, actually try to be fairer to the other person than you are to yourself.
00:14:59
Speaker
And this is something where you said, like, I've become more comfortable with letting people, you know, feel a certain way about me.
00:15:06
Speaker
I've become more comfortable understanding that however they feel about me is a them problem.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, you can't really control like, because the thing is, I've even reached the stage of being extremely accommodating of other people.
00:15:18
Speaker
And it's still blown up in my face.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I was like, well, if I'm gonna piss off people anyway, I might as well just do what the fuck I want.
00:15:24
Speaker
Boom, there it is.
00:15:26
Speaker
You know, again, I bring this back time and time again, because it is the longest standing relationship of my life with my family.
00:15:32
Speaker
And that's why I said it's not that I enjoy or feel any sort of way about them being mad at me or feeling, you know, whatever they feel about me.
00:15:40
Speaker
It's still hurtful for me to be the villain in my sister's story.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's not like I like that.
00:15:44
Speaker
I'm not really okay with it.
00:15:46
Speaker
However, that's not my problem.
00:15:48
Speaker
That is not on me.
00:15:50
Speaker
That is something she has to deal with and she has to grapple with.
00:15:53
Speaker
And so that's where I started to finally apply it in my own personal life.
00:15:57
Speaker
When I finally started to get those boundaries up and in place, that's when my life really started to improve radically for the better.
00:16:04
Speaker
That's the thing, right?
00:16:04
Speaker
Like advocating for your own agency.
00:16:07
Speaker
Like, I mean, I don't think even think this is culturally specific, because truth be told, most countries teach women to defy their own desires and like everybody else's requests instead.
00:16:16
Speaker
And it's like, I reached a point where I was sick of my life, like people coming and telling me that this person feels this way about your life choices.
00:16:22
Speaker
And this person thinks this and it's like, well, if we're taking everybody's opinions, let's go ask the fucking postman.
00:16:27
Speaker
Let's go ask what he feels about my relationships.
00:16:29
Speaker
Like,
00:16:30
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:16:31
Speaker
It's like, why is this anybody's fucking business?
00:16:33
Speaker
It's not, it shouldn't be anybody's business.
00:16:36
Speaker
And so like, yeah, like, I think this episode should really be like, whose business is it?
00:16:39
Speaker
Is it my business or
Boundaries and Internal Privacy
00:16:40
Speaker
your business?
00:16:40
Speaker
You know?
00:16:41
Speaker
And I think like, this is the thing that people forget when they start dating people.
00:16:44
Speaker
It's like, I want to have this emotionally intimate relationship with them.
00:16:48
Speaker
Should they not know everything about me?
00:16:50
Speaker
If I don't have this level of trust with them where I can share like the most deepest, darkest things that have happened to me, is it really love?
00:16:55
Speaker
And it's like,
00:16:56
Speaker
Well, when you first meet someone, they're still a stranger.
00:16:59
Speaker
They haven't earned that right yet.
00:17:02
Speaker
And as a stranger, like, the thing is, you change the situation to any other stranger, like a friend that they met or work colleague or interview.
00:17:11
Speaker
And automatically, the answer for that person is like, of course not.
00:17:13
Speaker
Of course, I wouldn't share this information with someone I just met.
00:17:15
Speaker
But for whatever reason, in the context of dating, it's like, but shouldn't we know everything about each other?
00:17:19
Speaker
It's like, no.
00:17:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:21
Speaker
No, not at the beginning.
00:17:23
Speaker
I love what you said.
00:17:24
Speaker
We teach women to deny our desires.
00:17:27
Speaker
Even if you do marry someone else, we can never fully know another person and nor should we aspire to.
00:17:34
Speaker
Like there are some things that are so deeply private and personal that none of us should ever have to share with others.
00:17:40
Speaker
We have the right to internal privacy.
00:17:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:43
Speaker
I don't care if you marry somebody like
00:17:45
Speaker
I'm going to go to the fucking grave with and I should be able to and I shouldn't feel harassed or like I'm somehow unjustified in that decision.
00:17:53
Speaker
And I feel the same way about whatever man if I ever do end up marrying a man, I don't need to know 100% everything about him.
00:18:00
Speaker
First of all, humans change like we're not some static, you know, statue.
00:18:04
Speaker
But also, like, I find it very odd that we're supposed to know everything.
00:18:07
Speaker
Like, that doesn't make sense to me.
00:18:09
Speaker
That's a totally modern concept that has never existed at any time in antiquity.
00:18:14
Speaker
Also, do you ever really know people?
00:18:16
Speaker
Like, for me, at the end of the day, it's like, I believe in being a creature of mystery.
00:18:20
Speaker
Like, I'm totally a gossip girl on this run.
00:18:22
Speaker
It's like, that's a secret I'll never tell.
00:18:24
Speaker
You know, you love me.
00:18:25
Speaker
XOXO, gossip girl.
00:18:26
Speaker
Like you're not going to know everything.
00:18:29
Speaker
It's like, I believe in not telling them everything.
00:18:31
Speaker
And like, there are certain things I remember reading on FTS early on where I was like, yes, I totally agree with this.
00:18:35
Speaker
And like, yes, it makes total sense.
00:18:37
Speaker
And like, for me, the hard line stances are, I don't share anything about personal family traumas or sexual assault or anything like that, like with men.
00:18:46
Speaker
Thankfully, I haven't experienced anything too drastic on that front, but I would not, even if I did.
00:18:50
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:18:51
Speaker
Like, I would not.
00:18:52
Speaker
And it's just because I've seen too many situations where women have told men about specific traumas and triggers only to have men weaponize those traumas and triggers against them when the time was right.
00:19:03
Speaker
So maybe initially they didn't do that and they seem very accommodating and understanding.
00:19:06
Speaker
They're like, I'm so sorry you went through that.
00:19:08
Speaker
But because they knew that was a specific trigger or trauma for that person, it was very easy to manipulate them.
00:19:13
Speaker
It becomes weaponized against them.
00:19:14
Speaker
And you don't know when that will happen.
00:19:16
Speaker
Remember how they're always like, you only know the person you married when you divorce them.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
I think that's the approach you should have with whomever you're dating.
00:19:23
Speaker
You only know the public side of their face right now, who they are really in their heart of hearts.
00:19:27
Speaker
You will only find when you've upset them, disappointed them, et cetera.
00:19:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:19:32
Speaker
And this is why we had the blood in the water test, you know, because I mean, for those of you who don't remember what this was, the blood in the water test is to basically like feed them like a insecurity that you don't have.
00:19:42
Speaker
For me, for example, it's my nose.
00:19:44
Speaker
I love my nose.
00:19:46
Speaker
You know, like my nose is like my dad's nose.
00:19:48
Speaker
I'm like, well, this is like an inheritance.
00:19:50
Speaker
But I always say I'm so insecure about my nose because it's like too big or whatever.
00:19:54
Speaker
It's perfectly fine.
00:19:54
Speaker
But I just say this bullshit.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I'm like, I've been thinking about having it done or whatever.
00:19:59
Speaker
It's not true.
00:20:00
Speaker
None of it is true, mind you.
00:20:02
Speaker
But I wait to see whether they use that against me or not.
00:20:04
Speaker
And there have been situations where they have used that against me.
00:20:06
Speaker
And I take note of it, I take it under advisement, because I'm like, you know what, I threw that intentionally to see whether you'd use it.
00:20:12
Speaker
And you did.
00:20:14
Speaker
I usually don't do something that's predictably something that most people like, like eyes or lips or whatever, because I'm like, well, these are features that people will call me out on be like, oh, these are nice.
00:20:22
Speaker
So if
00:20:22
Speaker
It can't be too fake.
00:20:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:23
Speaker
If you have something that you're known for that every single woman wants and then you're like, Oh my God, I hate my, my whatever my ass, my pillowy lips.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:31
Speaker
I hate my eye and my like long lashes.
00:20:33
Speaker
What a drag.
00:20:34
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:20:35
Speaker
Like you have to make it believable.
00:20:37
Speaker
First of all,
00:20:38
Speaker
You have to make the insecurity believable.
00:20:40
Speaker
I also think this is applicable to places like work and stuff.
00:20:43
Speaker
Like I've been like a big proponent of not even telling places.
00:20:46
Speaker
I mean, of course, you know, with HR, it's hard to because they know your address, but I don't make it a point to like inform my superiors about where I live.
00:20:54
Speaker
Because then if like we have like a snow day or if we have like a day where I don't need to come into work, even if I'm like five minutes away, I can pretend like it's too far for me and I can stay at home.
00:21:04
Speaker
You can take that life hack.
00:21:05
Speaker
I do that a lot.
00:21:05
Speaker
Like I try not to tell, I never tell them how many members of like the family exist in my household.
00:21:11
Speaker
My mom has given me full permission to use her as a dependent for everything.
00:21:14
Speaker
So I'm like, I have my frail mother to look after.
00:21:16
Speaker
Please give me more money.
00:21:17
Speaker
You can collude with your family to advance your paycheck, you know?
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:22
Speaker
Under late-stage capitalism, anything and everything is permissible, as far as I'm concerned.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, as far as money is concerned.
00:21:29
Speaker
But even in dating situations, this is something I advise people who have terrible relationships with their families.
00:21:34
Speaker
It's like, don't make that known.
00:21:36
Speaker
Correct.
00:21:37
Speaker
You know what I
Family Dynamics in Dating
00:21:38
Speaker
mean?
00:21:38
Speaker
Don't make that known to a person that you're dating.
00:21:40
Speaker
It doesn't matter what beef, how angry I am with my mom on that specific day.
00:21:44
Speaker
It's like, that shit I keep to myself.
00:21:46
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:21:46
Speaker
Like, mostly the people I've dated know nothing about my family, except that I have very good, very good relationship with them.
00:21:51
Speaker
I always talk about them favorably.
00:21:53
Speaker
I always talk about them, even if that was not the case.
00:21:56
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:21:56
Speaker
Like, I advise people to do that because men pay attention for things like that.
00:22:00
Speaker
Like, you know, if you have a dead parent, or if you have a
00:22:02
Speaker
negative relationship with like a male father figure they assume you have daddy issues and they try to pull off the stunts on you like you have to be careful with like what you share with people when you first meet them because again like lots of people are taking you in and trying to figure out your weaknesses this is why you know i'm one of four i'm the youngest of four but often people only ever hear about the one brother who's like i call him the best of the worst among people who know me because the other two are just like literally the worst but
00:22:28
Speaker
He's the only one I refer to, one, because he's a brother.
00:22:30
Speaker
And we all know men oftentimes only respect other men.
00:22:33
Speaker
And to know that I have a male in my corner, a successful male, who's well regarded in the community, who's in an honorable profession, who makes a lot of money, that's the kind of man that other men will respect.
00:22:45
Speaker
So I make it very clear that we are very close, we've got a great relationship, we travel together, la la la la.
00:22:51
Speaker
And then as far as my parents are concerned, I'm just like, oh yes, both my parents have passed away.
00:22:54
Speaker
And I never bring up like how the best thing my father ever did was die.
00:22:58
Speaker
Like, obviously, I'm not going to say that to anybody.
00:23:00
Speaker
I'm just getting to know.
00:23:01
Speaker
But those who do know me know that that's like, what am I saying about my dad is like the best thing he ever did for me was die.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like, even to my friends, they're like, oh, my God, you know, it's such a radical statement.
00:23:12
Speaker
And it took me forever, forever.
00:23:15
Speaker
to actually acknowledge and then articulate out loud to somebody else, like to a very close friend, like this is how much I hated this man, right?
00:23:23
Speaker
I'm glad he's dead.
00:23:25
Speaker
But you will never hear me saying that to anybody at work or in my romantic life, especially not in early days.
00:23:31
Speaker
I'm not saying that's not something that wouldn't come up once we're like deep into the weeds.
00:23:34
Speaker
But upfront, that's just something that that's very precious and personal information that hardly anyone should ever have access to.
00:23:43
Speaker
Another thing I believe in lying about is like the quality of my relationships in the past.
00:23:48
Speaker
Like as far as any new man is concerned, I've only ever been treated well.
00:23:52
Speaker
I don't know disrespect.
00:23:53
Speaker
Like that's never happened to me.
00:23:54
Speaker
Disrespect, we don't know her.
00:23:55
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:23:57
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:23:57
Speaker
Like I always give them the impression that I've always been treated well.
00:24:00
Speaker
That way when they treat me poorly, I'm like, oh my God.
00:24:03
Speaker
What is this?
00:24:04
Speaker
What is this, brother?
00:24:05
Speaker
Ugh.
00:24:06
Speaker
You know, immediately, no, because it doesn't matter.
00:24:10
Speaker
Like, I think for most people, you know, if you haven't treated poorly, it's like, you so want to prevent that from happening again.
00:24:16
Speaker
And so you offer this information up to be like, you know, because you're hoping that by offering this information, they'll be like, Oh, this poor gentle thing, she's been treated so poorly, like, it's my duty to treat her well.
00:24:25
Speaker
But for most men, what that does for them is it lets them know where your bar is at.
00:24:30
Speaker
And they're like, as long as I'm above this bare minimum bar, she's gonna think I'm amazing, because I'm slightly better than the other
00:24:36
Speaker
one.
00:24:37
Speaker
I advise women not to settle.
00:24:38
Speaker
Again, you know what?
00:24:40
Speaker
You can take a lot from dating from just learning basic investment and negotiation, even in a business setting.
00:24:45
Speaker
Because even in a business setting, I have managed to double my wages so many times just by not being very forthcoming about what my previous wage was.
00:24:53
Speaker
When I give people the impression that I make a lot, they want to match the value that I bring.
00:24:58
Speaker
the value that you bring is being determined by that person at that point.
00:25:02
Speaker
If you tell them that, hey, my standard, my value in the past has been low and like low in the sense of like, it doesn't have to be abusive, but just like in general, negligent, not being thought of, like anniversaries forgotten, birthdays forgotten, you know, like no romance.
00:25:17
Speaker
What they know is they just have to put a slightly above, like, again, it reduces effort for them because it's like, I just have to take this slightly above the
00:25:24
Speaker
in order for this person to be happy with me.
00:25:27
Speaker
And you never want to sell yourself short in that department.
00:25:30
Speaker
So it's better to come in with the impression of I've always been treated well, whether that's true or not is unimportant, because it sets the standard for him that he's going to have to bring his A game or he stands a chance to lose you.
00:25:41
Speaker
Either way, either way, whether that's true or not, if he doesn't sustain the energy throughout, if he's like, okay, well, she seems like she's high standards, but like, maybe I can pull that off for like a couple of months.
00:25:52
Speaker
And then when she's like comfortable, I can just like bring it down a notch.
00:25:55
Speaker
Like if you don't have the ability to walk away, it becomes redundant.
00:25:59
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:26:00
Speaker
Like that's the thing with any negotiation, you have to have the ability to walk away.
00:26:03
Speaker
That was one of the biggest pieces of advice that my father told me.
00:26:06
Speaker
He's like, your best tool in a negotiation is your ability to walk away.
00:26:09
Speaker
Diana's dad, OG, the OG.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, when you can walk away, it means that you had better options.
00:26:15
Speaker
I like that you talked about, you know, when you tell people and you're negotiating, the way you earn more money is you say, well, at this job, these
Negotiating Pay and Networking Strategies
00:26:22
Speaker
are my benefits.
00:26:22
Speaker
This was my salary wage.
00:26:23
Speaker
I just had this this last week, Diana, which is why I had to jump in.
00:26:26
Speaker
So right now I work as an assistant to a very wealthy mother-daughter team.
00:26:31
Speaker
And they pay me very handsomely hourly, right?
00:26:35
Speaker
And my hours are minimal and the tasks are manageable.
00:26:39
Speaker
And, you know, they're mostly not micromanaging me.
00:26:41
Speaker
So all in all, it's an excellent job.
00:26:43
Speaker
But I'm always on the prowl for like better money, better benefits, anything that can like improve my life financially, you know, because in this economy, but so this last week, I interviewed with somebody who lives in the wealthiest neighborhood in the city.
00:26:56
Speaker
It's one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country, as a matter of fact.
00:26:59
Speaker
And of course, he's like a hedge fund person.
00:27:01
Speaker
He's in finance, la la la.
00:27:03
Speaker
And when we were doing the negotiating, I was like, well, this is what I'm making at my current job that I would like to make somewhere in the ballpark of that, if not more.
00:27:12
Speaker
And he was like, well, listen, in the finance world, what we do is we pay a slightly lower hourly wage or salary.
00:27:17
Speaker
And then we have...
00:27:19
Speaker
semi-annual bonuses that are at least 20% what we're already paying you for that portion of time.
00:27:24
Speaker
Is that something you'd be open to?
00:27:25
Speaker
And I was like, you know, that doesn't sound, that sounds manageable.
00:27:29
Speaker
That sounds reasonable.
00:27:30
Speaker
And he's like, and by the way, even if it didn't work out for us, let's say you were dismissed, you know, before the six months were up, you would still be given that bonus as like, you know, as a dispensation, as we fired you.
00:27:41
Speaker
And I was like, oh, well,
00:27:42
Speaker
you know, I would hope it wouldn't come to that.
00:27:44
Speaker
But like, that is also very reasonable.
00:27:46
Speaker
Like, that's very gracious, I think, as somebody who, you know, who's been fired before, or who's had people, you know, like, oh, we want you to have this job, but actually, we're not gonna be able to afford to pay you more like we thought.
00:27:57
Speaker
I mean, in the past, I've just been through so many situations where I'm like, okay, but now I have completely changed my mentality.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I'm starting to get such amazing pay for like jobs that are minimal kinds of
00:28:07
Speaker
hours and responsibilities.
00:28:09
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:28:10
Speaker
Like it has totally changed and shifted how I negotiate with people and how they view me.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:16
Speaker
And I think that like one of the most underrated pieces of advice I got was from this actress.
00:28:22
Speaker
And I remember she told me she was like, you need to stop networking vertically and start networking horizontally.
00:28:29
Speaker
And I think that's what's really helped me like leverage the connections I have to better pay jobs.
00:28:34
Speaker
Because sometimes, you know, when you walk away from a job, like, you know, people have the statement of like, you don't leave a bad job, you leave a bad employer, like a bad boss.
00:28:42
Speaker
And like, sometimes you just can't bring the boss as a reference for like a new job, or like, they just don't want to support you.
00:28:47
Speaker
But in those situations, I've always found that like, because I allied with key co workers, and they were willing to put in a good word for me, I was always able to elevate.
00:28:55
Speaker
And like, that's the thing, right?
00:28:57
Speaker
Like, it's worth it to actually, I mean, again, we've now come on to the business side of situations.
00:29:01
Speaker
But again, it's like, how much information is too much information?
00:29:04
Speaker
Because I think for a lot of people,
00:29:06
Speaker
they don't really know what the line is between being authentic and oversharing, right?
00:29:10
Speaker
Like at the end of the day, when you come to a company, a lot of people feel really guilty for things.
00:29:14
Speaker
Like I think postcode people feel guilty for things like I have a gap on my resume.
00:29:18
Speaker
I suddenly have to be a caregiver.
00:29:20
Speaker
I'm a single mom.
00:29:21
Speaker
It's like, how much of this should I disclose to my employer and how much of it is necessary for them to know and how much of it is like, it's not their business.
00:29:28
Speaker
And the good thing is like in countries like the US, there are like protections, right?
00:29:30
Speaker
It's like there are certain things that they cannot ask you in an interview.
00:29:33
Speaker
But some countries, not only do they ask you that in the interview, they can use that as a way to discriminate against you because there are no workers protections, right?
00:29:40
Speaker
So being able to decipher what is appropriate to share, what is being authentic and what is being oversharing.
00:29:45
Speaker
It's just like, what is oversharing?
00:29:47
Speaker
It's sometimes difficult to navigate because it's something that you have to apply to not just strangers you meet who could be potential friends or potential business partners is also relevant to your romantic relationships.
00:29:57
Speaker
So if this is the case, how do we find that line then, Diana?
00:30:01
Speaker
Coming at it from an FDS strategy perspective, how do we start to draw that line and understand when it comes into play and understand when it can be slightly modified?
00:30:11
Speaker
I mean, let's think about this from a practical application kind of view.
00:30:15
Speaker
Well, the first thing I will say is that relationships are built over a period of time.
00:30:21
Speaker
At the time when you meet someone, that is not sufficient time.
00:30:25
Speaker
In FDS, we always say that you need to let the person reveal themselves to you because before three months, you have no idea who they are.
00:30:31
Speaker
And for
00:30:31
Speaker
Whatever reason, that three month thing, I remember thinking when I first read it, I was like, this is such a strange frame of time.
00:30:36
Speaker
But weirdly enough, it's been applicable not just to relationships.
00:30:39
Speaker
I've seen that take place in like the workplace as well, where like I, you know, was working at a place for three months and within three months, like the manager or the boss had like an about face.
00:30:48
Speaker
And I was like, whoa, this is not the company I interviewed for, you know?
00:30:52
Speaker
And like, it's a big part of the reason that some companies have like three month probations or two months.
00:30:55
Speaker
Like there's a reason they have a probation period.
00:30:57
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:30:58
Speaker
Because it's the same thing.
00:30:59
Speaker
It's like, ultimately, when you're first meeting someone or dating someone, they're on probation.
00:31:04
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:31:05
Speaker
And when they're on probation, you don't share every last thing.
00:31:08
Speaker
Because I think a lot of people, again, misjudge it because they're like, well, I'm just trying to escalate and like speed up the process.
00:31:13
Speaker
Because if we can just be intimate and vulnerable with each other, we'll have a stronger bond.
00:31:17
Speaker
There is no shortcut.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah, you won't have a stronger bond.
00:31:20
Speaker
What you will have is codependency.
Intimate Sharing vs. Codependency
00:31:22
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:31:23
Speaker
You won't have a stronger bond because that person has now found you hook, line and sinker.
00:31:27
Speaker
They're like, this person needs me and they're going to emotionally just dump on me.
00:31:30
Speaker
And as long as they do that, it's going to be easy for me to take control and manipulate them.
00:31:34
Speaker
You know, and I think a lot of us learn, like we feel guilt because maybe some of it is family induced.
00:31:39
Speaker
It's like, you know, we put a point here about like, what happens if your family is not a safe place to be vulnerable?
00:31:44
Speaker
Well, what ends up happening sometimes is you end up being too vulnerable with people who don't deserve it.
00:31:49
Speaker
So let's say, so the first rule would be probationary period means minimal, if any, vulnerability.
00:31:58
Speaker
Yep.
00:31:58
Speaker
Probation period, three months.
00:32:00
Speaker
I actually still think that's a valid thing.
00:32:02
Speaker
I honestly think the three month rule is not crazy.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah, the longer that I've thought about it and seen it in action, the more I'm like, it is absolutely 100% accurate.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah, the three month thing is really true.
00:32:14
Speaker
I remember I once had a male colleague say, do you really even know anyone before a year?
00:32:18
Speaker
And I was like, wow, how profound for this guy to say.
00:32:21
Speaker
So I was just gonna say, right after three months, then there's like a three to six month.
00:32:25
Speaker
And then I would say six to 12 months.
00:32:27
Speaker
So let's break down what three to six months might look like and what six to 12 months might look like and beyond.
00:32:32
Speaker
Because he's absolutely right.
00:32:34
Speaker
You absolutely do not know anybody for the first year.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think the first three months, you have to remember that people are on their best behavior.
00:32:40
Speaker
So even if they think the shit that you're saying is weird, they're going to act like they're so super accommodating about it, because they're like, well, I want to get laid.
00:32:46
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:32:47
Speaker
So much of like, that's why we advocate against sleeping with the guy that early, because like a lot of them will say and will do whatever, because they're like, I'm just gonna try to escalate in speed.
00:32:56
Speaker
speed up this process so that I can just get into her pants like let's just get the show on the road and like that's the thing right I think now we're dialing back on the casual sex stuff like I'm definitely seeing some pushback in like a lot of circles from women who are being like I don't think this benefits me but not enough I don't think I'm seeing enough of a pushback you know I still feel like I see enough people who are like it doesn't matter and liberation and women with their bodies and sexual revolution and all that nonsense yeah
00:33:21
Speaker
I have a newsletter from Uterish is what it's called.
00:33:24
Speaker
And I really enjoy it.
00:33:25
Speaker
And I think it's really important and it's fantastic.
00:33:27
Speaker
However, this last week they were like slut pride.
00:33:28
Speaker
And I was like, oh God, we still have so far to go.
00:33:32
Speaker
No, just no.
00:33:33
Speaker
I have nothing against sluts.
00:33:34
Speaker
That's not the point.
00:33:34
Speaker
The point is the rest of the world has everything against you.
00:33:38
Speaker
And they're lying to you when they say that they approve of it, especially if it's a man, right?
00:33:42
Speaker
Like you see how men treat porn stars.
00:33:44
Speaker
It's a disaster.
00:33:45
Speaker
And if you're a slut, you're just a private porn star that they can mistreat and discard.
00:33:49
Speaker
So don't get it twisted.
00:33:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's also it's like the price of spending time with you.
00:33:54
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing, right?
00:33:56
Speaker
Like, I think there's some value sometimes in being celibate, like a lot of people.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's so weird.
00:34:00
Speaker
Like, sometimes I meet these women who talk about themselves in the same way that men talk about themselves.
00:34:05
Speaker
Like whenever I hear men being like, well, I haven't been laid in like four months, bro.
00:34:08
Speaker
I think it's like...
00:34:10
Speaker
That's sad.
00:34:10
Speaker
And you're a loser.
00:34:11
Speaker
I don't care.
00:34:12
Speaker
But like, when I hear women talking like that, I'm like, to me, it's just strange, because when you're a celibate long enough, it's like, just the mere thought of letting a man touch me and be around me and be around my presence is like, it's repulsive, like to an undeserving man, you know what I mean?
00:34:25
Speaker
Like, I cannot imagine sharing space with an undeserving man.
00:34:30
Speaker
And so for me, it's like, you need to value yourself higher in this arrangement, because men will already devalue you.
00:34:36
Speaker
Your market rate is being set by people who have sinister intentions, and it's up to you to make sure that you get what you're worth.
00:34:43
Speaker
And that's the thing.
00:34:44
Speaker
We cannot convince you to have higher self-worth.
00:34:46
Speaker
If you believe that that's all you're good for, maybe this is not the podcast to be listening to.
00:34:49
Speaker
Maybe you need some self-improvement podcast to listen to first to get your mindset on track with
00:34:55
Speaker
not seeing yourself as damaged goods, but not seeing yourself as somebody who's not worth the respect and attention of genuine, sincere interest, right?
00:35:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:35:05
Speaker
That's the thing, right?
00:35:05
Speaker
We can't do something for you that you are not willing to.
00:35:08
Speaker
Like, that's what I've realized with like friends as well.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's like, if you're not willing to do this for yourself, like it doesn't matter that I tell you this guy is not treating you well and he's not good enough for you.
00:35:15
Speaker
If you don't believe it, there's just no point in me telling you.
00:35:18
Speaker
So you need to start from there first, right?
00:35:21
Speaker
So for me, it's like the first three months, what they do is irrelevant.
00:35:24
Speaker
Because I know that they're going to try every trick in the book to get what they want.
00:35:28
Speaker
And for me, it's like, well, I'm here to get what I want.
00:35:31
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:35:32
Speaker
What I want is sincere attention and sincere affection.
00:35:35
Speaker
And I will determine whether I feel like this person is giving that or not.
00:35:39
Speaker
And a lot of the times, usually three months is how long they can sustain faking it.
00:35:43
Speaker
Right.
00:35:43
Speaker
And that's something if you've read the handbook, and if you haven't, please go back because it's like an endless treasure trove.
00:35:48
Speaker
And especially it's like, you know how when you read a classic book, when you're younger, you're like, Oh my gosh, that book is so amazing.
00:35:53
Speaker
But then there are certain classic books I go back to every two years, five years, 10 years, like I like to reread a book that was really impactful to me when I was younger.
00:36:01
Speaker
And I like to reread it throughout my lifetime, because I find that, you know, the way I react to it is different, the way I respond to it emotionally, the
00:36:08
Speaker
philosophically, et cetera, that changes because I have changed with time.
00:36:13
Speaker
And so this is how I feel about this three month rule.
00:36:16
Speaker
Like, you know, at first I didn't really understand it, but now I've seen like, you know, most human beings can't keep up pretense or artificiality for longer than three months.
00:36:25
Speaker
At that point, they're going to cut bait and run.
00:36:26
Speaker
They're like, okay, it's, it's just not yielding enough, like return on investment because they are looking at it from that analysis.
00:36:32
Speaker
Right.
00:36:32
Speaker
But like Diana says, you know, are you getting the affection and the presence and the time, the quality of time that you require to start to feel safer, to be more vulnerable?
00:36:42
Speaker
For the first three months, you're basically meeting, as Dave Chappelle would say, their representative.
00:36:47
Speaker
After we get past three months, three to six months, where do we start to go then?
00:36:51
Speaker
Also, this goes without saying, but never clue a man in to how long you're willing to wait before you allow him to sleep with you because then these rules don't become applicable, right?
00:37:01
Speaker
The second you give him a deadline, you're like, well, I'd probably be comfortable to sleep with you after like six months of dating or something.
00:37:07
Speaker
Then he's like, okay, well, there's a deadline.
00:37:09
Speaker
So I just have to wait out that deadline and then it will work out.
00:37:12
Speaker
Never give them deadlines, like always be vague and unspecific about that.
00:37:15
Speaker
Like, I remember I had a friend who used to say, oh, I tell them when I meet them that I like, I won't sleep with them for a year.
00:37:20
Speaker
And I was like, okay, that's very specific.
00:37:22
Speaker
And like, again, that drove away enough men to be like one year.
00:37:25
Speaker
No, that's way too long for me to wait.
00:37:27
Speaker
But the thing is, I also don't think that's an effective strategy.
00:37:31
Speaker
Because again, somebody who's willing to wait that long, that's going to be much worse for you.
00:37:37
Speaker
Because one year in the level of investment you have emotionally is
00:37:40
Speaker
It's way more than you would have in three months or six months.
00:37:43
Speaker
And so again, never give them deadlines because you'd be surprised how long a man is willing to wait.
00:37:49
Speaker
I mean, absolutely.
00:37:49
Speaker
If he knows it's going to happen, then he's like, how does it disadvantage him to simply wait it out?
00:37:54
Speaker
Like he's got nothing better to do.
00:37:56
Speaker
And also like, I would not want to feel like at that one year mark, I'm like, oh, okay, now there's the pressure.
00:38:03
Speaker
Now I've told him.
00:38:04
Speaker
So now is the time, you know?
00:38:06
Speaker
So I think you're absolutely right.
00:38:07
Speaker
Don't give away the timeline.
00:38:08
Speaker
And also if like, if you're feeling pressured to give a response, that's also something that you should be noting as a red flag.
00:38:13
Speaker
But also all you have to say is, you know, when I feel comfortable, that's when we'll move the intimacy along.
00:38:19
Speaker
Like, but I have to feel a certain level of comfortable and comfort and safety before I can go along
Dealing with Persistent Suitors
00:38:25
Speaker
that path.
00:38:25
Speaker
And like, that's on you to make me feel that sort of comfort.
00:38:28
Speaker
You know, it's not on her to prove or justify.
00:38:31
Speaker
It's not on us to justify why we won't sleep with you.
00:38:35
Speaker
Do you hear how fucked up that is?
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's messed up.
00:38:39
Speaker
It is so messed up.
00:38:40
Speaker
Like, what the fuck?
00:38:42
Speaker
I will say, sometimes with certain situations, when I know a man is not sincere, right?
00:38:48
Speaker
And like, I'm trying to out crazy his crazy.
00:38:51
Speaker
I will be like, Oh my god, yeah, you know, once we get married, and once we have a baby, obviously, you know, before that, we'd obviously sleep with each other.
00:38:58
Speaker
And like, I'd love to sleep with you once we get married.
00:39:00
Speaker
So like, it's so nice that like, you just knew straight up that you wanted to marry me.
00:39:04
Speaker
And like, maybe we should go to Harry Winston and pick up like just sometimes you can out crazy.
00:39:08
Speaker
They're crazy.
00:39:08
Speaker
I'm just saying.
00:39:09
Speaker
Oh my god, I love you so much.
00:39:11
Speaker
This is amazing.
00:39:12
Speaker
This is amazing.
00:39:13
Speaker
I would not give this a solid advice that you can use this in any scenario because sometimes they can out crazy or crazy too.
00:39:19
Speaker
But I've definitely used that as a strategy when I'm definitely not wanting to go out with a guy because I'm like, maybe if I out crazy him, he'll just be like, wow, this bitch is crazy.
00:39:26
Speaker
I'm like, leave me alone.
00:39:27
Speaker
Sometimes that works great.
00:39:29
Speaker
Sometimes it does exactly like, oh my God.
00:39:31
Speaker
I can't wait for you to be the daddy of my children.
00:39:34
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:39:35
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:39:35
Speaker
This is amazing.
00:39:36
Speaker
I've never heard of this.
00:39:38
Speaker
I have, but I guess I've never heard it like explained like this.
00:39:40
Speaker
And that is hilarious.
00:39:41
Speaker
But also if y'all crazy, you're crazy girl, run.
00:39:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:44
Speaker
Girl, run.
00:39:46
Speaker
That's why I'm saying you can't always use this as a strategy.
00:39:48
Speaker
Like I would not say this, use this strategy.
00:39:51
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:39:52
Speaker
I've only used it in a situation where I've correctly assessed that this guy's intention is just to hook up with me.
00:39:57
Speaker
And I'm like, how can I drive him away?
00:39:59
Speaker
Because just me saying no is not enough for him or he's just like hanging on.
00:40:05
Speaker
And the only way to do that is to act clingier than he is.
00:40:08
Speaker
And usually that makes them sick.
00:40:10
Speaker
Have you heard about Robert Pattinson doing this to one of his stalker fans?
00:40:14
Speaker
The actor, Robert Pattinson?
00:40:15
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:40:16
Speaker
Maybe we should call it the Pattinson method.
00:40:19
Speaker
Let's call it the Pattinson.
00:40:20
Speaker
The Pattinson.
00:40:20
Speaker
Because apparently he had this female fan who was a stalker who like had years and years of stalking him.
00:40:25
Speaker
And finally, like one day he went out and he was like, I'd like to take you out to dinner.
00:40:30
Speaker
And so they went out to dinner and apparently he was just so boring and so tedious and like intentionally, of course, at this dinner, just like absolutely unbearable.
00:40:37
Speaker
And afterwards he never heard from her again.
00:40:39
Speaker
And so it's like, you know, like maybe the Pattinson is sometimes the way to go.
00:40:44
Speaker
I mean, obviously use your best judgment.
00:40:46
Speaker
Well, obviously don't go on dates with him.
00:40:47
Speaker
Right.
00:40:47
Speaker
Use your best judgment.
00:40:49
Speaker
Pattinson method works.
00:40:50
Speaker
He's like what?
00:40:50
Speaker
A six foot five tall guy.
00:40:52
Speaker
I mean, he's a wealthy, famous English dude.
00:40:55
Speaker
But I mean, I have been known to use that like on very, very, like probably once or twice in my life where I assess that this person is just like a clingy hangers on that just wants to sleep with me.
00:41:06
Speaker
And I'm like, maybe if I out crazy his crazy, he'll leave me alone.
00:41:08
Speaker
Ah.
00:41:09
Speaker
Diana, you're hilarious.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
Again, like use with discretion.
00:41:12
Speaker
I would not put this in like an FDS approved method.
00:41:15
Speaker
Like I have to say certain things I've done on my own from trial and error.
00:41:18
Speaker
I wouldn't automatically be like, yes, women use this.
00:41:21
Speaker
Like, but sometimes out crazying their crazy helps.
00:41:25
Speaker
So we've discussed what we have to do as far as vulnerability and like understanding that you're only meeting a representative for the first three months and discarding any sort of like intimacy bids from him because you just don't know.
00:41:36
Speaker
But from three to six months, we want to move the needle a little bit.
00:41:40
Speaker
So how do we go about doing that?
00:41:42
Speaker
So one of the pushback things I've heard from people within this three to six month mark is like, well, how long do I live a lie?
00:41:49
Speaker
You know, I believe in being authentic.
00:41:51
Speaker
And like, I don't want to have to cover myself up in this way because I'm not being authentic.
00:41:55
Speaker
I'm living a lie.
00:41:56
Speaker
And like, I don't want to have to hide from my lover.
00:41:59
Speaker
He should know me intimately and all of this jazz.
00:42:01
Speaker
Right.
00:42:02
Speaker
And it's like, I just want to say, no matter how much you share with each other, there will still be aspects of each other that you will never know.
00:42:08
Speaker
And you should just live with the truth that that's part of the joy of getting to know someone is that they will forever be an enigma to you in some ways.
00:42:13
Speaker
And the whole joy of getting to be in a relationship with them is spending the rest of your life finding that out.
00:42:18
Speaker
I thought that was the joy of being in a relationship with someone, you know, like I am forever an enigma.
00:42:23
Speaker
Like I would hope that at the end of it, like, you know, my husband would be at my funeral being like every day for years and years and years.
00:42:30
Speaker
I had the joy of getting to unpeel these layers.
00:42:33
Speaker
She was an onion.
00:42:34
Speaker
Like she was just an endlessly fascinating, you know, unknowable human being.
00:42:39
Speaker
That's what I would hope at the end of my life.
00:42:41
Speaker
People were like, God, she was just fascinating.
00:42:43
Speaker
Yeah, ogres are like onions, you know, women are like ogres, we have layers, and he has to peel this layer, layer by layer each day.
00:42:51
Speaker
But that's the thing, like a lot of people are like, well, how do I be authentic?
00:42:54
Speaker
And it's like, save that authenticity for your therapist, and for your loved ones, like your friends, and even with your friends, like many women know how to be discreet with their friends.
00:43:02
Speaker
Many women don't share everything with their friends.
00:43:05
Speaker
I mean, you certainly don't share that shitty ex you went back to with your close friends, because you know, they'll judge you.
00:43:10
Speaker
So why is it that you're so good at hiding shit from your friends, but like your boyfriend needs to know every last thing about what you ate, what time you took a shit, when you went to work, what you had for breakfast.
00:43:19
Speaker
Like, why does he need to know the play-by-play?
00:43:21
Speaker
Damn, I love this call.
00:43:23
Speaker
Most men don't care about that shit.
00:43:24
Speaker
So why...
00:43:26
Speaker
I think this is why I could never do like the, you know, how are you doing, sweetie messages on like, you know, your eye messages, just like sitting and messaging people like I was like, I don't care.
00:43:35
Speaker
I'm not being mean.
00:43:36
Speaker
I genuinely don't give a shit like message me when there's something relevant, like you're planning something or you need to meet me for something or if something funny happened.
00:43:44
Speaker
Yeah, like I've never been a hi, how are you?
00:43:46
Speaker
Hey, what's up?
00:43:47
Speaker
What are you doing?
00:43:47
Speaker
I've never been that person.
00:43:48
Speaker
And I will never be that person.
00:43:50
Speaker
I don't fucking care.
00:43:52
Speaker
I've never been a communicate for the sake of communicate kind of person.
00:43:55
Speaker
You know, for me, the effort matters.
00:43:57
Speaker
Like, sure, I don't mind little love notes.
00:43:59
Speaker
And like, you know, you leave something for me in the morning or something, that's fine.
00:44:03
Speaker
But like, again, having a textual relationship with a person is never been my aim.
00:44:08
Speaker
And so it's just one of those things that's like, well, what is the line between authenticity and oversharing at the three to six month range?
00:44:13
Speaker
Well, this is really a timeframe where this person should already be asking for exclusivity with you.
00:44:18
Speaker
Like this should not be the time where you're still in a situation ship.
00:44:21
Speaker
If you're still uncertain of where relationship is at this benchmark, that means you don't have a relationship.
00:44:26
Speaker
Like if you're uncertain, that means no.
00:44:28
Speaker
Oh, and that was something too.
00:44:29
Speaker
Like if you're the one who has to ask, what are we?
00:44:31
Speaker
It's a no.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's a no.
00:44:33
Speaker
Because he knows and he knows if he wants to lock it down.
00:44:36
Speaker
And if he hasn't brought it up, it means he doesn't want to lock it down.
00:44:38
Speaker
So act accordingly.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:40
Speaker
And again, a lot of people just get very comfortable sharing everything on their phones and being like, well, I message him every morning and stuff.
00:44:47
Speaker
And like they think that that's okay.
00:44:48
Speaker
And that makes up for not having a conversation, but it doesn't.
00:44:51
Speaker
Right?
00:44:52
Speaker
Like at that stage, if that if his intentions with you are not clear, then
00:44:55
Speaker
you should already know at this point that you're wasting your time.
00:44:58
Speaker
And honestly, getting out of the three month mark is much easier than getting out at the one year mark.
Assessing Partner's Intentions
00:45:03
Speaker
Like it is much better for you to start over again with someone fresh than being in this position where you don't know for sure.
00:45:09
Speaker
So I think if we want to look at tangible benchmarks, Diana, from three to six months, honestly, and I say this with all due respect and love, so many men are so starved for intimacy and vulnerability.
00:45:19
Speaker
At this point, I would be expecting him to be volunteering a lot more about himself.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
Because at this point, he should be feeling more comfortable with you.
00:45:27
Speaker
If he's still withholding, if he's still really suspicious and like acts like, you know, you asking him when he did this last weekend because he didn't hang out.
00:45:34
Speaker
It's caused like, damn, girl, what are you, the police?
00:45:37
Speaker
Like, OK, this is a person who is absolutely avoided and is probably never going to get there.
00:45:42
Speaker
But I think at this point, it's I think from three to six months, it's you should be seeing who he is because it should be coming out by now.
00:45:49
Speaker
Yeah, he should be telling you about the, I mean, of course, months zero to three, it's like weird if he starts bringing that up.
00:45:55
Speaker
But three to six, it's like after he's asked for exclusivity, if like nothing comes out, it's like if he's being too withholdy, then that's like a red flag.
00:46:02
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:46:03
Speaker
And then as you move on from there, like from six months onwards, like there should be an openness.
00:46:08
Speaker
Like I think with a lot of men, it's like I evaluate their lack of openness with a lot more seriousness than I do my own.
00:46:15
Speaker
Because when I'm doing it, it's out of self-preservation.
00:46:18
Speaker
because men can cause serious damage to you.
00:46:21
Speaker
It's not the same.
00:46:22
Speaker
The risks that we take being in relationships with men are not the same risks they take in being in relationships with us.
00:46:27
Speaker
Very rarely do we weaponize that kind of information against them, but men have been known to weaponize that information against us a lot.
00:46:35
Speaker
So like, even if I was in a relationship with someone for many, many years, there's a lot of stuff about my personal life, like my family history or things that I'm going through that I don't necessarily share with them.
00:46:45
Speaker
Again, people may disagree with me on that.
00:46:47
Speaker
I don't care.
00:46:48
Speaker
I don't.
00:46:48
Speaker
I don't.
00:46:49
Speaker
And I've never regretted not sharing it because when I have exited those relationships, they had nothing to use against me.
00:46:54
Speaker
And that was why I did it.
00:46:55
Speaker
I like that you bring this up.
00:46:56
Speaker
You know, when we say like, we're not having double standards here, we're actually using factual data, like
00:47:01
Speaker
men have been known to use our past against us.
00:47:04
Speaker
It's often been weaponized in so many relationships.
00:47:07
Speaker
Typically, women don't.
00:47:09
Speaker
I mean, I'm not saying there aren't exceptions to the rule.
00:47:11
Speaker
But like, I don't have any friends who have had boyfriends who have had like sexual abuse in their past as a child.
00:47:17
Speaker
I've never known them to use that as a joke or a punchline or share it with your friends and like, you know, have like a sick twisted fantasy about it.
00:47:25
Speaker
That's like,
00:47:26
Speaker
an in among your group, you know, that's not the situation.
00:47:29
Speaker
Whereas often it is the case when it's vice versa.
00:47:34
Speaker
So this fact that we're saying, listen, he needs to be coming more transparent, more voluntary and sharing with you, you know, you shouldn't feel like you're having to be pulling things out from him because it's on him to prove his trustworthiness.
00:47:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:47
Speaker
Because women are known as typically being trustworthy, especially with your emotions.
00:47:51
Speaker
We are known as kin keepers.
00:47:53
Speaker
We are known as sort of the emotional stewards of the human world.
00:47:57
Speaker
And men know this and they rely on us for that.
00:47:59
Speaker
So if you're not seeing that from him, it's a no for me, dog.
00:48:04
Speaker
And that's the thing.
00:48:05
Speaker
It comes back to the master of stories thing, right?
00:48:07
Speaker
Like I use the blood in the water test a lot, like dumb fox a lot, because I'm assessing them a lot.
Testing Vulnerabilities
00:48:13
Speaker
And when I do the blood in the water test, like I'm very good at crafting a story that is completely made up.
00:48:19
Speaker
And you wouldn't know that from this podcast.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:22
Speaker
You wouldn't know because it's all sounds very real.
00:48:24
Speaker
And that's because the best lies are coded in some semblance of the truth.
00:48:29
Speaker
And so that's what I build off of.
00:48:31
Speaker
And I mean, I do this for a living.
00:48:32
Speaker
So for me, it's very easy to do that.
00:48:34
Speaker
Right.
00:48:34
Speaker
But I try to see what exactly they use in an attempt to get under me.
00:48:38
Speaker
And usually if a person is a decent person, they will never use that against you.
00:48:42
Speaker
In the situations where that person has been a decent person, like they have respected what I've shared with them.
00:48:46
Speaker
And they've been like, you know what?
00:48:47
Speaker
Sorry that happened to you.
00:48:48
Speaker
And like, no, that's not going to be me.
00:48:50
Speaker
And, you know, ended our relationships for much more amicable reasons and much more reasonable reasons.
00:48:55
Speaker
Like, again, your spidey sense is very strong.
00:48:57
Speaker
And I think that women need to start honing that a lot more in the situations where I felt like, hmm, I wonder if this is the kind of person that would do that.
00:49:03
Speaker
When I fed them something and like it came back to bite me in like a fight or something, that was when it clicked for me.
00:49:08
Speaker
And I was like, they use that fake shit that I gave them.
00:49:11
Speaker
They use my nose against me.
00:49:13
Speaker
And how dare they use my nose against me?
00:49:15
Speaker
How dare your beautiful nose?
00:49:17
Speaker
How dare they try to weaponize your beautiful nose?
00:49:19
Speaker
It's so true, though.
00:49:20
Speaker
I guess with vulnerability, you know, ultimately our takeaway is if you've made it to the year and you feel like you have really come to intimately know this person, that he has been honest and forthright and shown that he is of, you know,
00:49:34
Speaker
good character, that's when you can really start to share the things about you that have really become like the foundation for you are today.
00:49:42
Speaker
It's at the one year and further on mark, because at that point, you know, you should be very clear in knowing where your relationship is headed.
00:49:48
Speaker
If it's heading in the direction you want it to, and if not, it's time to, you know, cut anchor and move on to the next option.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:55
Speaker
And I have to say, I have like a zero strikes policy with men.
00:49:58
Speaker
Like there are some things that are for me hard, non negotiables, like yelling in a conversation or silent treatment and things like that.
00:50:04
Speaker
Like even in friendships where I have been yelled at, or somebody has given me the silent treatment, like, this is not a situation in which I communicate to them, hey, I don't like it when you do that, because XYZ and my family used to do that.
00:50:16
Speaker
And so it's like, you know, blah, blah, they don't need to know all of that.
00:50:19
Speaker
I know I don't like it.
00:50:20
Speaker
And sometimes that's the hard line you have to have with yourself.
00:50:22
Speaker
It's like,
00:50:23
Speaker
There's no point like we're being told to communicate our boundaries to men and be like, you need to let him know that it's not okay to play the silent treatment thing with you.
00:50:31
Speaker
And you need to let him know that it's not okay to yell at you.
00:50:33
Speaker
And it's like,
00:50:34
Speaker
He doesn't need to be told he's a grown adult.
00:50:36
Speaker
I think it's pretty obvious to most people that yelling and giving people the silent treatment is a very childish way of conducting any kind of conversation that requires two individuals to actually hash out problems.
00:50:47
Speaker
And at this age, at my grown fossil age, the last thing I want is to be sitting and handholding a man through his own emotions.
00:50:54
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:50:55
Speaker
Not going to do it.
00:50:56
Speaker
Not going to do it.
00:50:58
Speaker
I believe my purpose in life here is to school men, but not in this domain.
00:51:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:02
Speaker
So this is not my struggle.
00:51:04
Speaker
Hashtag not my struggle.
00:51:07
Speaker
I'm not going to be doing that.
00:51:09
Speaker
Nor should you, nor should any of us.
00:51:11
Speaker
Okay, let us learn from Diana.
00:51:14
Speaker
Peace be on you or whatever.
00:51:15
Speaker
Shalom.
00:51:16
Speaker
And I'm gone.
00:51:17
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:51:18
Speaker
Because for me, it's like, I will show you through my action.
00:51:20
Speaker
Diana, I want this to be a t-shirt.
00:51:23
Speaker
Shalom or whatever.
00:51:28
Speaker
You know, like...
00:51:30
Speaker
I'm full of like, whenever people are like, oh, well, he's learned his lesson and now he won't do that with you again.
00:51:34
Speaker
I'm like, no, he's learned his lesson and hopefully he won't do that with somebody else again.
00:51:37
Speaker
That's his lesson.
00:51:38
Speaker
His lesson is he lost somebody because of doing that and he will hopefully not repeat that mistake with someone else.
00:51:43
Speaker
Is it my job to make sure that that's enforced?
00:51:47
Speaker
No.
00:51:48
Speaker
You know, I am a chapter in his life of self-discovery and learning.
00:51:51
Speaker
And while I'm happy to have done my part, he's not like my whole book.
00:51:54
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:51:55
Speaker
I am my own book.
00:51:56
Speaker
He's a very small chapter of it.
00:51:58
Speaker
And so for me, that's the thing, right?
00:52:00
Speaker
It comes down to what is worth communicating and where is the boundary?
00:52:05
Speaker
And authenticity is maintained, I think, when again, if you feel like you're oversharing and you're like, I'm telling him too much, you probably are.
00:52:11
Speaker
Honor your instincts.
00:52:12
Speaker
If you feel like you're being too cagey, then you need to start writing to yourself and being like, well, what am I comfortable sharing?
00:52:17
Speaker
And am I actually being very rigid and strict?
00:52:19
Speaker
Some situations, maybe you are.
00:52:20
Speaker
But I think when it comes to personal traumas and things like that, like those are things that most people don't need to know, let alone your boyfriend.
00:52:26
Speaker
This is absolutely true.
00:52:27
Speaker
I would add, you know, instead of looking at it like as a trauma, look at it as like part of your sacred story.
00:52:34
Speaker
And the sacred is holy and it's not meant to be profaned by the eyes of the multitude.
00:52:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:40
Speaker
It is something that's in an inner temple, inner sanctum, high priestess only realm.
00:52:46
Speaker
And so act according to that trust and honor that your past is not necessarily a trauma, but it's something that's been sacred in laying the foundation for who you are today.
00:52:56
Speaker
The wonderful, beautiful person you are, how you've persevered, how you've come to the world and managed to keep an open heart and good faith and honor that person by not indiscriminately telling everybody your business.
00:53:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:09
Speaker
And I mean, on a final note, this is what I tell men all the time who ask me about my exes or my past and stuff.
00:53:14
Speaker
And I was like, don't ruin your future thinking about my past.
00:53:19
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:53:20
Speaker
Don't ruin your future.
00:53:21
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:53:22
Speaker
Don't ruin your future by looking to my past.
00:53:25
Speaker
This is Diana.
00:53:26
Speaker
You're so eminently quotable.
00:53:27
Speaker
No wonder you're a writer.
00:53:29
Speaker
No, like seriously.
00:53:30
Speaker
With that though, I think we've really covered the zero to 12 months after anything else that you think
Conclusion: Protecting Your Stories
00:53:37
Speaker
should be added.
00:53:37
Speaker
Like write it in the comments.
00:53:38
Speaker
I've been reading all the comments that you leave on Spotify.
00:53:41
Speaker
It makes me so happy, but come into it with faith.
00:53:44
Speaker
But if you have something to add that we didn't think about, like, please, please,
00:53:48
Speaker
Join the conversation.
00:53:49
Speaker
Bring your own wisdom and knowledge to the table.
00:53:52
Speaker
And as always, subscribe to our Patreon for bonus episodes.
00:53:56
Speaker
We do post them there.
00:53:57
Speaker
We do.
00:53:58
Speaker
We do.
00:53:58
Speaker
And to all the scrotes who are looking to traumatize and weaponize women's past traumas against them, die mad, motherfuckers.
00:54:07
Speaker
Die mad.