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Ep 49 - Sheba and Anu Prasad share a coffee
88 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a soul conversation over coffee with Anu Prasad.
Anu is the Founder & CEO of India Leaders for Social Sector (ILSS), a Delhi-based non-profit that works to strengthen the leadership talent pool in the social sector.
Prior to setting up ILSS in 2017, among other things, Anu was a founding member of Ashoka University, India’s first liberal arts university. She has also held leadership roles at multinational companies such as American Express and TNT.
Anu is an avid reader, an active volunteer in civic causes, and a passionate believer in lifelong learning, all of which she incorporates into the ILSS proposition of learning and values-based leadership. Anu also mentors young professionals and senior leaders and sits on the Board of two non-profit organizations.
Anu graduated from HR College, Mumbai, and received her MBA from IMI, New Delhi.
More about her is on her LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcoming Remarks
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm delighted to have you in the podcast where all stories are welcome and the masks come off.
00:00:15
Speaker
Hi Shiva, lovely to be here. Lovely to have you and welcome to coffee and soul and welcome to having a soul brew with me and I'm absolutely delighted you could make the time. Thank you so much, looking forward. Likewise,
A Cozy Coffee Ritual
00:00:30
Speaker
likewise. You're carrying your coffee with you and I am too so I'll just go to pour myself a cup. Yes, I love this ritual. Here's to life and learning and living. Yes, she has Shiva.
00:00:45
Speaker
It's a lovely rainy day. It's a great day to be having coffee. I know. And a conversation level. What could be better? Absolutely. Yeah. I know. Can I ask you to, um, to just hold that cup of coffee between your palms? If you don't mind just messing. Is it too hot? No, it's just right. Okay. Thank you. And can I just ask you to sit back, sit back and have a sip and relax.
Gratitude and Reflection
00:01:11
Speaker
You can just sit back with this cup of coffee.
00:01:14
Speaker
And if you're all right, just close your eyes and see what comes up for you. Is there anything that can help you? Sights, sounds, smells, feelings. I just feel a deep sense of contentment Shiva. I'm sitting with a cup of coffee. It's a rainy day. I have a beautiful view of the garden outside. There's a lot of greenery. It's overcast, but just a deep, deep sense of
00:01:40
Speaker
peace and contentment. Isn't that lovely? And so what does this contentment mean for you? What does it signify? In this journey, you know, at some point you need to stop and pause and reflect and think about where you are and what does that mean to you? And just feel grateful. You know, with the work I do, my friends, my family, where I am,
00:02:10
Speaker
I'm just deeply, deeply grateful today. Today, right now, sitting here having this coffee, having this conversation with Yeshiva. That's the overriding feeling. Just grateful. It's an intentional moment. I think sometimes it's just good to sort of sit and sort of hit pause and just wonder about how you're feeling.
00:02:33
Speaker
I think rainy days also do that to me, just make me feel more reflective and it's just a mood thing. Lovely and thank you for letting me into that space and I really appreciate that because it's so precious, isn't it, to hit those moments of pause and be in that space.
00:02:54
Speaker
So lovely. Thank you for sharing that Anu.
Anu's Journey from Bombay to Social Entrepreneurship
00:02:56
Speaker
So that I understand a little bit more about you, can you share your journey and how has it been for you? However you want to take us through, me and my viewers, through how you started out, what were some of your high points, some of your key deep learnings, where are you today? Just take me through your journey. I'd love to hear more. Thank you Shiva. So, I mean, I grew up in Bombay.
00:03:21
Speaker
South Bombay, so with all the privileges attached to a lifestyle that was sort of very open, very empowering. In the journey from when I was in college to now, I've shifted many careers. And I'm now, of course, a social entrepreneur. But I think, you know, it was just, I've just discovered many things about myself along the way. One is just this whole continuously being a learner.
00:03:51
Speaker
I'm just always eager to learn. From Bombay, I got married and went to California. We lived there for many years, and then we wanted to come back to India. So was there a moment that made you decide you wanted to come back? Was that some kind of a defining thing that happened for you and your husband? Well, yeah, we wanted to come back because we just felt like India was, you know, this was early 90s, sort of the liberalization with Dr.
Returning to India: Challenges and Excitement
00:04:18
Speaker
Singh, and we just felt like,
00:04:21
Speaker
to India and see if we could start something of our own. And so we came back and it was fabulous. I mean, in fact, I think the first month when we were back at gunpoint, my husband was actually carjacked. Yes, he was going to work and there was at 10 a.m.
00:04:43
Speaker
And a lot of people thought we'd run back to the US, to California. But we didn't. I mean, we were here to stay. And it was quite scary, but just one of those weird things. But yeah, it was exciting for us to be back in India. And I'm glad we made that decision. So yeah, it's been.
00:05:04
Speaker
It's been an incredible 20 plus years back now. And in that time that you spent in India, what happened for you? How did you journey on?
Pioneering IT Services with American Express
00:05:17
Speaker
So I actually got really, I was looking to go back to work in India and American Express was starting what they call, and this was early 90s,
00:05:28
Speaker
what they call their whole almost this whole moving IT enabled services. It was the beginning of the whole IT enabled services sector, which is now billion dollar industry. So Amex was one of the pioneers in bringing back their financial processes from across the globe into three centers. And India was one of those three. And so it was really exciting for us to sort of almost
00:05:56
Speaker
work to India and Amex is a great place to work.
00:06:00
Speaker
It was really exciting. We were doing a lot of work in Asia, Pacific, Australia. So learning the work, bringing it back to India and setting up the processes here. And that was what I did first when I started here. I then went on to other roles in the finance area because I was a B-Com. I had done my MBA. When I was 17 years old, I was at HR college. And I realized that HR college was one of those few colleges that allowed you to do a morning college so that you could work during the day.
00:06:30
Speaker
So I applied for my CA entrance, and I actually got in. So through my three years at HR college, I was doing my articleship, which is really going to work for a chartered accountancy firm and going for audits. I used to do a lot of Mahindra and Mahindra audits and basically be what they call an article clerk. I was also giving my exams as an undergrad. But I don't talk about it because I met my husband.
00:06:59
Speaker
And this is something some people do. I don't want to say women do it, but certainly I did it, which is that I just got so excited when I met him and I thought there was a great adventure. For me, I just went back my bags after graduation and I went to California. So I didn't complete my C. I had the last exams and I gave it up. So after doing three years of work and completing my first set of exams, I never finished it. So I never talk about it.
00:07:28
Speaker
But as a mother of two, few years into Amex, I said, you know what, I need to do with my professionals and I need to do with my master's. So I went back and got an MBA, a full-time MBA. And I was the oldest one at 28, 29. I was the oldest one in class, but one of the good students, front row, was really excited to learn.
00:07:50
Speaker
So I went back to my MBA after having worked for many years and after having my kids as well. But it was great fun. It was very fun. I'm sure I think a little in reverse, you know, coming in India, people do things very conventionally. But I started really early when people were enjoying their college days, I was working. But then, yeah, I didn't complete my year.
00:08:13
Speaker
And life takes its turns, doesn't
Balancing Career and Family
00:08:15
Speaker
it? What you have done, I think, is phenomenal to go back to it, to come and do your MBA, to experience what it is like to give it all up and then come back with your children, get back into work. And I think a lot of women, and this is exemplary for a lot of women today who are struggling with this, to manage home and manage their careers because, hey, there's no harm.
00:08:40
Speaker
Everybody has the right to be ambitious and want to do something. And I think those squaring those things, that's happening a lot now. So phenomenal that you kind of pioneered this in the early days as well.
Careers: Jungle Gym vs. Ladder
00:08:54
Speaker
And Shiva, I really do believe strongly that there is no one path. In India, there's a very conventional way of looking at careers. But my career has not been a ladder, it's been a jungle gym.
00:09:06
Speaker
So I really agree with Sheryl Sandberg when she says careers are a jungle gym and not a ladder. Because you can sometimes take two steps back to make four steps forward. But it's not going to end in your 20s. I went back to being a full-time student in my late 20s, early 30s. I remember the first day of my MBA school, they called me to rag me.
00:09:29
Speaker
and you know a bunch of seniors and they said tell me a little bit about yourself and I said well I worked in Amex for many years I've had a eight-year corporate career I have two kids and they said okay you can go I didn't know what to make I didn't know what to make of this person that was standing in front of them yeah but I also Shiba after after working for about 10 years I took a pause I wanted to be in
00:09:55
Speaker
more in control of my time. I felt like between my husband and me, we were on some sort of crazy ladder. Our kids were growing older. I wanted to start a business. So I quit my corporate career, and I started a travel business out of the basement of my house. Yeah, because it was something I was passionate about. And that went on for many years. But after about seven, eight years of not
00:10:21
Speaker
working in the corporate world. And I know that for a lot of women, this is a real challenge, this whole coming back into the working space once they've taken a break. It was the same for me. I was really nervous. I felt like, how am I going to go back to full-time work? But I did. And I'm so grateful that I did. My daughters pushed me. My older daughter said, hey, mom, we don't need you. So if you think you're here for us, please.
00:10:50
Speaker
go get a life, get on with things. And I came back to full time work. So definitely, you know, for women who've taken the break and feel like it's going to be so hard to get back. Where will I land? How will I be positioned? Doesn't matter. Just come back.
00:11:11
Speaker
Well, you know, that is such a powerful message. That is such a powerful message for so many women who are right now struggling with what should I do? What should my next step be? And here you are giving them an example of how it can work out beautifully if you only take that step. Am I correct in understanding that?
00:11:31
Speaker
Absolutely Shiva. I felt like an imposter. I got lucky when I was looking to come back full time to work. I met Pramath Sinha and if you know Pramath, he's you know, he was a Dean at ISP. He was looking to set up Ashoka University and they were looking for people and he met me and he made me an offer I think pretty much within two weeks of having met me saying hey, we're looking to set up this at that point the university was in there.
00:11:58
Speaker
maybe five years down the line, but we're looking to set up an academic program and we need someone to come in and sort of work with us. And I, you know, I was very nervous. He was great. So I really must do a shout out to him because he could see my nervousness about coming back to full-time work. But he was like, don't worry, you know, let's do it.
00:12:20
Speaker
And the rest is history for me. I mean, we went on to create the university and I felt like an imposter initially because I kept feeling like I've not been in full-time work for a bit and maybe I've missed out something. But you know what? If you have the passion and excitement and if you have a learning mindset, you can do it. Absolutely.
00:12:43
Speaker
And again, I want to say this is a lovely, lovely message and a very powerful message for women who are seeking to know, who are seeking to take those steps and come back into workspaces. Not only women, actually anybody, anybody who has kind of taken a bit of a detour and then coming back in, you just have faith and to put that foot forward and do it is what I'm hearing you say. And that's fabulous. So where are you now? I'm in the best place in my life. So, uh,
00:13:12
Speaker
couple of things that were going on in my mind, Shiva, when I was a part of building Ashoka University was just this whole learning, you know, learning in India, for a lot of people is first time, firstly, it's a lot of people do a lot of learning basics, basis, what they think would be their career sort of choices. So you're almost, you know, you almost go through a learning basis where you land in a job. And that's not why you need to be learning, right? There's so much of magic and just
00:13:43
Speaker
opening your, widening your mind, you know, and I experienced that at Ashoka when we were developing our liberal arts program. And I was one of the best students, even though I was the dean, I used to sit in classes on gender, on sociological reasoning, on anthrop, all the subjects I was sort of deprived of, because in India, you know, you get into silos so early. I got into a become silo at 16, 17, and I really never got a chance to really explore
00:14:12
Speaker
other subjects and so I loved being a part of this environment and I always felt like older people don't get access to that because you know once you've gone out of college and university nobody goes back to school. That was something that always bothered me. The other was that I felt like the Indian development sector
00:14:34
Speaker
You know, in India is, you know, 130 first out of 180, eight countries, human development. I mean, Bangladesh is ahead of us. Yeah. On so many indices, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh. Why are we not being able to attract more people to work here? Why is the whole perception around the sector that you have to sort of roll up your sleeves and wade through floods and do rescue efforts? Why can you not build a career
00:15:02
Speaker
public policy or in you know just create you know in in being a civil society organization in holding the government accountable and Shiva also saw younger people at Ashoka.
00:15:15
Speaker
choosing more conventional careers. In fact, the eye-opener for me was in my first year at Ashoka when I offered, I shared a placement opportunity from an MNC to this cohort of bright change agents, as we would call them, these bright young men and women at Ashoka. And they all looked at me like,
00:15:34
Speaker
We want to be in public policy. We want to be in governance. We want to be in, you know, in spaces that matter. We don't want to be doing product management. And I was, I suddenly realized, okay, there's something in the millennials that is sort of willing to take the risk of doing something that sort of
00:15:55
Speaker
And that was really exciting for me. So for me, a culmination of all those thoughts was really building a social enterprise. And that's what I did with my, you know, I currently had this founded and had this organization called India Leaders for Social Sector, ILS. And it's really building capacity for the development sector.
00:16:18
Speaker
It's also trying very hard to be the brand ambassador for the social sector. So telling people, guys, this is nation building. All of you should everyone. The problem isn't out there.
00:16:29
Speaker
we are all a part of the problem. So we need to all contribute in whatever ways we can to being a part of the solution. And so the first program we ran at ILSS was for mid to senior corporate leaders to give those that may be looking to build out a second career in the social sector, but don't quite understand the landscape, don't know how to go about it.
00:16:52
Speaker
We would put them through like a nine day boot camp, just explain to them what's happening here. And if they felt deeply inspired and excited, then help them transition. Because Shiba, let's face it, the next generation will certainly have two, three careers, if not more. The world is changing so fast. So why not look at people?
00:17:11
Speaker
building a second career, you know, in the course of work. Absolutely. And so looking at what ILS says, how has been your experience thus far? Where are you? What is it that you still need? So I wished that there was a group of people like me that were passionate to learn and
00:17:36
Speaker
interested in seeing how they could be a part of India's development sector. But I didn't know where they were. It was just a hope that they were there somewhere. People evolved enough to question what they were doing and say, hey, is this making me truly, truly happy? Am I looking for more purpose? What am I looking for? I've done this now. I've been a banker 20 years.
00:17:59
Speaker
I want to do something else. What is that? I hope there were those people. I didn't know if they were there, but they are there. And we've now become a movement of close to 250 corporate leaders who've done for our program. It's been amazing for me, just going through that learning journey with them. And of course, many have moved into the
00:18:23
Speaker
development sector, they're in non-profits, they're heading foundations, they're working across the spectrum of India's development sector. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it is. It's fantastic. Yeah. So you feel when you're looking at these people, is there a particular kind of person that comes to you for this organization, for the training, get into this, or are you finding that people are just flocking in from different
00:18:49
Speaker
areas. How is that going? What is happening in terms of the socio-dynamic? Who is coming for this program? I'm fascinated. It's interesting because I almost feel like this is a tribe.
00:19:04
Speaker
These are people who are questioning something and are sensing that, hey, there must be something more that I'm looking for. I haven't found it. I want to do something more. I just don't know how to go about it. So by now, it's really word of mouth. A lot of people who've gone through the program are telling their friends and family, et cetera.
00:19:28
Speaker
if I have to say what it is I'd say it's a curiosity to question to be self-aware to know okay this is not making me happy anymore you know I've been selling a product but you know I want to do something else or whatever I'm not judging anyone for doing what they're doing absolutely you know me everyone needs to do what they want to do and what makes them happy
00:19:51
Speaker
I'm just saying that there are people who are saying, I want to do something bigger that has more purpose for me. That's bigger than my own career. Maybe work in my community or in my neighborhood or in my city or for the country. And I don't know how to do that. I feel strongly about a cause, be it
00:20:13
Speaker
disability or skilling or gender or any water environment. I just don't know how my skill sets could be leveraged to create, to build that contribution. So anyone that's questioning and has the humility to sort of say, hey, I don't even know what I don't know, but I know that I have a passion and I'm trying to see how I can use my skill sets here.
00:20:38
Speaker
We are saying, hey, we need you. Fabulous. So do have a sip of your coffee. I know you've been trying to have a sip of your coffee and I've got you talking so much that your coffee is going to get cold.
00:20:50
Speaker
Somebody was telling me, and that was very interesting, just as an aside, they all come for coffee, soul brews, and they come for coffee and soul, but I hardly see anybody sipping that coffee because we are so busy. So I said, oh my God, I must make amends on that one. So yeah, now the course that you run,
00:21:12
Speaker
How long is it? It used to be, so firstly Shiva, you have people talking about something that's so close to their heart that one does tend to forget the copy just because one is just so excited. I never thought at my age I'd still feel excited, jump out of bed every morning because I just absolutely love what I do. It used to be a nine-day residential where we all came together. It started at Ashoka University just because I have a very strong
00:21:39
Speaker
association with them so I requested them if I could host my program there because it's just a beautiful learning environment you know once you're there you're cut off from your cell phone and your laptops and you're just in this beautiful energy so it used to be there but COVID has of course put paid to residential programs in this last year and a half so we've made it virtual I believe every crisis throws up opportunities so we never realized that you could create
00:22:07
Speaker
exciting learning and discussions and chats over Zoom. So our programs are now at this point over online, but we will go back to a format which is more blended. So at some point, because we do, yeah, we will go into hybrid as soon as we can, because we do want people to meet. It's those after dinner discussions. Those are invaluable. We want to create, go back to that, but for now it's online.
00:22:35
Speaker
Okay, great. And people can just apply, I suppose. What is it that you need from people now in terms of awareness, in terms of what they could do to support this? I mean, Shiva people can apply and we have a fairly intense selection process, I'll be honest, because we are looking for not a very hardwired
00:22:58
Speaker
Couple of things, you have to have deep, deep respect for this development sector. It's the most challenging, most complex, most frustrating, most rewarding space. So the highs will be high, but the lows can be awful. And so we want people to come with full humility. So we actually have an application process. We interview them, we try to get to know people who apply because if you're coming because you think it's a retirement job,
00:23:29
Speaker
Well, we are not interested. I think everyone works very, very hard. So we are looking for people who are genuinely here to give and to pay it forward. I don't even like the word give back.
00:23:44
Speaker
I say, pay it forward. You come from privilege. You want to do something. Do it for yourself. Don't do it for anybody else because the joy you feel with what you do is immeasurable. So there's a mindset shift that we do work on. I love each and every one that's gone through our program because we can see something shifting in their mind and that whole orientation is different and I love that. It must be deeply gratifying when you see the shift.
00:24:13
Speaker
I love the magic of a classroom, Shiva. I saw that at Ashoka University. When things start popping in your head, you know, it's just fantastic. Yeah, the door's open and you kind of, yeah, it is beautiful. Paradigm shifting. Yes, I can just imagine. Fabulous. Okay. So tell me a little more about some of your
00:24:35
Speaker
If I was to ask you to just take a view on your life, something that was like a defining moment for you, or maybe a couple, is there something that stands out to you? I think one of the big defining moments for me, Shiva, was being a part of setting up this university, because I discovered many things about myself through that process.
00:24:56
Speaker
You know, I think just the self-awareness and being able to build that. It's interesting. One of the first things we would teach, and right like we were in the process of teaching younger people, I realized how much I was learning myself. One was just having a vision for yourself.
00:25:13
Speaker
I know it sounds silly, but I didn't have a vision for myself when I was younger. I just went through life basis, what I thought was the dementia. So yeah, CA entrance because CA was, was I really cut out to be a CA? I didn't even know, but I just went that way, you know, I think just so, you know, understanding oneself, being self-aware, I think it's really critical for me at
00:25:40
Speaker
My defining moment was when I realized that maybe liberal education where you can explore before you decide what you want to spend the rest of your life doing. And you may even change after you've figured it out because life is continuously evolving and you need to continuously evolve. You know, my father started his career in my hindras and retired from my hindras. Who does that?
00:26:05
Speaker
It was, and I just think that we are in such a different environment that if you don't keep adapting, it's problematic. So for me, many, many, many things happened when I went back to work after taking a hiatus from work. That was stuff, but it was also exciting. It was like a second life. And I see a lot of women stuck, and I'm sorry I'm going back to that point, but it's very close to my heart.
00:26:34
Speaker
took the break and now worried about good. Come back. So much to be done. So much value you can bring. Yeah. Great. Is there an added you live by, you know, when the chips are down to, is there a metaphor that you fall back on something that kind of gets you back up on stars in your eyes, maybe, and ready to dream the dream and make it happen.
00:26:59
Speaker
I mean, during COVID, I have a couple of them. So while during COVID, I was continuously telling my team that every crisis is an opportunity. Guys, we're going through this, but let's use this crisis to pivot, to learn, to do something differently, to experiment. The other is, of course, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. I think I truly believe that roll up your sleeves,
00:27:25
Speaker
just keep pushing. For me as a woman, entrepreneur, Shiva, extremely public, shy of being a public speaker. But how do you do that when you're CEO of an organization, you've got to speak up, right? You can't duck because that's expected. So for me, it was also just pushing every boundary of discomfort that I had, because I needed to do this for a larger cause. Truly believe we needed to speak up for
00:27:54
Speaker
all the people that are doing seminal work in the development sector, just using every opportunity I had. In fact, my husband jokes about it. He says, you know,
00:28:04
Speaker
you are so shy of public speaking and zoom has been a boon for you because you don't realize when you're speaking to a thousand people because you're on a technology platform you're not on a physical platform and I think God was looking out for me because I've done so much of public speaking in the last two three years on zoom but yeah okay so some of the gifts that you received that shaped you
00:28:30
Speaker
And some influences, people who influenced you, situations. What were they? Who were they? I think everyone should have mentors in life because some of my mentors have just played such a key role in helping me carry on when I thought things were really tough.
00:28:54
Speaker
I'd also just go to, you know, you need to have people you can go to, to talk to, who will hear you and support you. I've had some incredible mentors who I've learned from. I would say the first one is Ramatsinha. Ramatsinha set up ISP because he's the founder of Ashoka. He was my first boss at Ashoka University and just his sheer energy, enthusiasm, vision, you know, they saw Ashoka
00:29:22
Speaker
eight years before it came into actual being. He was someone I learned a lot from. I used to joke that you don't know I hang on to your every word because I was learning the world of academia. I didn't know any of it was coming from business. I was a finance person running an academic institution. I mean like really you know what a great opportunity for me.
00:29:45
Speaker
and I laughed it out. So Pramath was a great mentor. I learned a lot from him about the world of education and the world of entrepreneurship and just the whole sheer passion. Sanjay Gupta, English helper, he's just been like my go-to person as I was building up my organization just to, you know, just to hear me out when I'm struggling, to
00:30:07
Speaker
to also guide me when something's bothering me. So, you know, I think mentors have played a key role. Of course, I must speak about Ashish Dhawan. Ashish is the chairman of Ashoka University. And I knew him from then, but he was the one who felt like, why don't you start ILS? I will fund you.
00:30:27
Speaker
but you you started but it was not just funding he wasn't just writing me checks he was also giving me ashish sees about only about 30 years ahead he's a visionary it's incredible he is incredible you should invite him at some point i would love to and i will and i will yeah i'd love to facilitate that thank you that would be great i'll take you up on that yes absolutely because he sees
00:30:56
Speaker
so much ahead. And he, you know, the whole concept of public service, you know, the whole idea of how can we, you know, how can we all bring ourselves to doing something that's larger than ourselves, you know, and he was almost the baby that was born out of Ashish's philanthropy. So very much someone I continuously learned from.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yeah, I've been blessed by some incredible mentors. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, it really, really makes a difference to have someone looking out for you and showing you the ropes when you need it. I think it can't be accentuated enough, the importance of that. Absolutely. And so each one of us, I believe, has something very unique to contribute to people, to humankind, as it were, and a gift that only you bring. What do you think your gift is?
00:31:51
Speaker
to all of us, which we must celebrate, so yeah. I guess, wow, that's... Yeah, we need to own it. I think if I could get two things, Shiva, if I could get women to bring their full selves forward, you know, we do tend to, and I don't mean to generalize, please, I'm going to get shot by my team for generalizing, but I do feel like as a
00:32:22
Speaker
senior woman entrepreneur, I do take the responsibility of being a role model for younger women who need to be in leadership positions. So certainly I do feel like
00:32:36
Speaker
as I can, just to give that, you can do it, believe it, trust, if I could do it, you can do it. I take that as a sense of responsibility. And the other is just for people who are looking to work in India's development. It's like the national movement. I always feel that people in the 1910s, 1920s, 1930s,
00:32:58
Speaker
who worked for India's freedom movement, never really saw 1947, but did their bit in that. And, you know, we need to leave this country, this world, a better place for the generations that are going to come behind us. So what are we doing? You don't have to do it full time. You don't have to, you could write the cheque, that's fair too. But really see your work as larger than just
00:33:24
Speaker
what impacts you, but how can you do something for your community or in whatever way is big or small. So the fact that I've helped so many transition into this space
00:33:35
Speaker
gives me immense joy, immense joy. And that is to be celebrated, Anu, and more power to you because it's fabulous what you're doing. As you said, it's like a movement, slowly gaining a bit of an upswell, which is what is required. And what you just said, you know, how the 1910s, 1920s, they didn't know what the work would do, but you guys are pioneering it.
00:34:00
Speaker
And I think that is something that is so special and so worth applauding. So well done and so fabulous that you do what you do. So good for all of us that there are people thinking of this, making it happen, working on it.
00:34:16
Speaker
developing and mentoring people to make that shift, to transition. It's rare and it is beautiful. So congratulations on taking this path. I'm so honored that you have done that. Thank you, Shiva. I think the reward isn't just in the work itself because I really, I passionately believe in this. And so it's just, it's not even work, really. It's a mission. And I think a lot of, there is a lot of
00:34:43
Speaker
preconceptions about India's development sector, but actually it's a vibrant place with some of the best leaders. It just doesn't get enough amplification. So for anyone that's listening and thinking about, okay, what is this? I'm not saying come through my program, but just start exploring, reading more. It's such a wonderful place to be in and you are working for your country in some ways.
00:35:07
Speaker
As JFK said, ask not what the country can do for you. Ask what you can do for the country. Absolutely. I think that time has come. That's amazing. And I would say when you're saying don't come through a program, I would say yes, go and explore the program. Not because to have a program that is so focused on something, and that's been lacking, right? We haven't had that space very much.
00:35:31
Speaker
going through that and getting yourself acclimatized to what it means. I think that would be very important and fortunate now that there is a program such as this, right? So that people can cut their teeth on something that has been structured. I think that's awesome. In fact, we designed it, my colleague Ravi Sridharan, he heads ISDM, Indian School of Development Management. He and we designed this because we were both corporate crossovers. He was a bad girl all his life.
00:36:01
Speaker
And he moved into the development sector in his 50s. And he and me said, what would we like to create that would help people that we never got, but we would have wished somebody had done for us? So it was really designed in a way that we wished somebody had done for us. So yeah. That's the best way, isn't it? Because you would have liked to participate in a program like this yourself. Yes, absolutely. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we close out this program?
00:36:29
Speaker
No, nothing. Thank you so much, Shiva. It's been a pleasure talking to you, having this lovely cup of coffee on this nice rainy afternoon and talking about my favorite subject. Thank you for just asking me the questions. I've just enjoyed chatting with you. And I hope something shifts in the audience and they start looking at the social sector with a little more curiosity. That'll make my day.
00:36:54
Speaker
Thank you so much Anu, it's been an absolute pleasure to host you and I'm so delighted that we spent this time together. More power to you as you journey on making the development sector awareness of the development sector much more vibrant and much more accessible for people.
00:37:12
Speaker
and it's a great service that you do. So love the fact that we could have a Soul Brew together and I wish you every success, all the best. Thank you so much. Thank you Siva. My pleasure being here. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Siva. Until next week, keep the coffee swirling.