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Ep 35 - Sheba and Anjali Singh share a coffee
89 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a conversation over coffee with Anjali Singh. Anjali is an Inveterate Volunteer and a Co-Founder, Gurgaon Utsav
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Transcript
Introduction and Ceremonial Toast
00:00:02
Speaker
Delighted to have you in the podcast, where all stories are welcome and the masks come off. Hello, Anjali. Hi, Siva. Welcome to Soul Brews with Siva on Coffee and Soul. And I'm so delighted you made the time to have this Soul Brew with me. Thank you so much, Anjali. Siva, I have a lot of time.
00:00:30
Speaker
And I'm delighted to spend it with you. Wonderful. Wonderful. I hope you have your cup of coffee ready with you. I have it ready. I don't know whether you can see it, but it's right here. I can. If you raise it up a little higher, I'll be able to see it. There you go. It's in his presser shop. Lovely. Here's to life. Here's to great conversation. Oh, my God. Yes, conversation. Don't we miss it?
Identity and Self-Reflection Post-COVID
00:01:00
Speaker
So I'm gonna ask you to just nestle this cup of coffee between your palms. And if you can just sit back, close your eyes and see, let the warmth seep in and see what comes up for you. And whenever you're ready, open your eyes. Yes, so you nestle the coffee, you relax and the mind goes away.
00:01:27
Speaker
That is the lovely thing about what's been happening lately. But as it's easy to call it, you know, I don't think lovely is a good word, actually. What this period of COVID has done for me is, in any case, I was moving towards it, but COVID hastened the process. I was experimenting with
00:01:54
Speaker
removing all things from my life that I define myself by, you know, it's very easy to define yourself by activity. So, you know, I used, I used to work, I have worked for many, many years. And I was the coordinator for many years as well, who counts with cancer support. And I worked with palliative care with cancer patients.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, moved away from that after some 14, 15 years. Then we used to do this event, public event in Gurgaon that we enjoyed so much that we no longer could do. That's Gurgaon stuff. That's the Gurgaon stuff. And so the two very major interests in my life I moved away from and I was very interested in seeing how I
00:02:53
Speaker
which is my persona, would react to the taking away of the pillar supports of my persona. I met a friend of mine the other day for a meal and she said, God, you look different because I've just been for a holiday and
00:03:18
Speaker
She said, but when I met you 15 days ago, the word you were using for yourself was vaporized. And yes, that's how it felt. It felt like, you know, you didn't exist. It's identity.
00:03:44
Speaker
and the identity didn't exist. I mean, not shaken, it wasn't there. So yeah, it's been an interesting journey. I don't know whether I made that great jump as a result of that in terms of, I follow the Advaita philosophy. So I don't know whether I was able to make the jump, but
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely had the experience. Well, that is fabulous. Talk to me a little bit more. So where are you today on your journey? And before we get into understanding your journey and love for you to take us through some of your highs and lows, defining moments, what made you do the things you do and you did.
00:04:29
Speaker
Before that, where are you today? Today, today, right now.
Living in the Moment and Forest Bathing
00:04:34
Speaker
Right now. I'm a happy girl, you know. I'm just happy to be around. Yeah, there's nothing like a... So the last week, there's also, you know, when we say now,
00:04:53
Speaker
What we don't, what we also have to pay attention to the fact is that emotions play into any situation that you're in. You know, so as of now, because I'm fresh out of a holiday in the forest where we spent like 14 hours just rattling around in the sattva ranges in the forest, just being close to nature.
00:05:23
Speaker
There's something about that that brings you back. What is it? Does it connect you to the earth? Does it just center you? Whatever it does, it takes away stress of every kind. And therefore, right now, it's a good time. But it's because, you know,
00:05:48
Speaker
the however you are at any point of time is just that bad point of time maybe you'll move on from there absolutely you know these japanese have this wonderful concept of forest bathing and what it does to you and what you seem to be describing this time that you spent in the ranges it's probably i mean i just that word that that phrase just came to my to my yes yes they do do forest bathing yeah
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's that's absolutely true. It's just it's even when you sit on a lawn and on the ground. Yeah, yeah. You know, we're basically
00:06:26
Speaker
we become all about the mind, but there is such a strong instinct that that functions as well. And it's so beautiful to connect with that again, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, always, always. Yeah, yeah. So Anjali, tell me more about, and so you've shared where you were, say a week before and where you are today,
00:06:52
Speaker
But share a little bit about your life, your journey. How has it been? What have been some of your defining moments? Love to hear. So Shiva, I don't know about my defining moments. I think I've spent my, I have a very liquid way of looking at my life. I don't really, I don't really hold it. Yeah, I don't really hold it.
00:07:21
Speaker
I have held, I hold some emotions and those are largely of great love where I've received and given great love. But events, I don't hold them. I don't happen.
00:07:38
Speaker
I actually don't have them. You know, even if I'm, sometimes I'm, you know, I try and remember, I meet old friends and they remind me of something and I'm looking at them like, oh, I don't think I should be looking glassy eyed here, but I don't remember.
00:08:00
Speaker
So it's not the events, it's the moments, right? It's the powerful emotion in the moments. And that's what you, what I'm hearing, and we played back. That is what has been the milestones on your journey, is those powerful moments of deep love and deep connection, maybe. Yeah, yeah. And those are, they're not moments, they develop, and they're over time. So, yeah. And they continue to,
00:08:29
Speaker
They continue to enrich, and they continue to hassle. You know how it is. Yeah, it has its own life, doesn't it?
Emotional Baggage and Motherhood Evolution
00:08:42
Speaker
Your emotions have their own life. And of course, as you know, Advaita is all about getting beyond that. It's true. I don't think there's getting beyond before going through. You have to go through to go beyond, I feel. But I don't know what you think about that.
00:08:59
Speaker
Yes, you have to acknowledge. If you if you don't acknowledge, you know, then there's nothing you have to acknowledge whatever it is. But if you can, but in the acknowledgement, if you can look at it with a certain I'm afraid of using terms that have now began to be used so frequently that they've lost all meaning, but with a certain degree of awareness, that means that you
00:09:29
Speaker
or perception that you actually see. And just when you actually are able to see you, you actually get removed that one step, because you're looking, you're not in it, you're looking, even as you're in it. I don't know if I'm in any way, if it's sounding like a British word, but it's a, it's a practice.
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm with you totally on that. I resonate with that. It doesn't have to be, of course, your darkest deepest, but any kind of an example you'd like to give of something that happened and you looked it and you really saw it with the eyes that see.
00:10:16
Speaker
and it left you, it went or it kind of whatever, whatever happened to it. Oh yes, and many times, many times I needed advice. I needed to hear the word from somewhere and then realize what I was doing. It wasn't always my bird that was looking. Something got said and I thought, oh, help that.
00:10:46
Speaker
That is where that's what I'm doing. And the minute I looked away, I mean, moved away, that made a lot of difference.
00:10:56
Speaker
So, yeah, I think one greatly momentous one was when my mother passed away and she had a complicated relationship with her daughter-in-law. And I moved into that house while she was a thing. And I now have, I'm totally comfortable in that relationship, but at that time I was very uncomfortable in that relationship. That was my great turning point. At that time I could have
00:11:26
Speaker
picked up all the baggage, that was my mother's and hers, and carried it on my back, or I could have left it, and I left it. Was there a moment of choice? Was there a moment of- There was a clear choice made. There was a clear choice made. And were you aware of that moment where the choice was there? You were at choice. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, it was a clear choice.
00:11:56
Speaker
it was clear choice, I could have carried that and very easily I was moving towards carrying it, the anger was building and then I suddenly it just must a word from somebody, I don't know what it was but then it became clear that my mother's left all this behind her and in fact she moved on, what am I doing? And it's not
00:12:21
Speaker
and it's not my baggage anyway it's their baggage fabulous that's really powerful left it yeah i just left it so yeah so there are moments in one's life where it's where they actually we make very clear choices as we go around along the point is that we don't realize we are we're exercising choices we feel
00:12:47
Speaker
overcome by the emotion of the moment and therefore feel that we are not exercising a choice, we're not making a choice. So that is why it's important to be able to look at our own motion. Yeah absolutely and I suppose and what you said right at the beginning in awareness versus circumstances compelling you to choose which you are going to do anyway
00:13:10
Speaker
But with awareness, if you do it, it's a very, very different thing. And I think that's what you were also alluding to earlier on in this conversation. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know in terms of action how much. I'm more and more beginning to think action's not quite important. Speak a little bit more about that. Yeah, I don't know. Action's too easy.
00:13:39
Speaker
activity consumes you. You feel that you are useful. You begin to feel that there's a role for you. Yeah, all very easily done. But what life has taught me over the years, even the role of a mother, my role as a mother now is to for a long time has been to stop being the mother I was, you know,
00:14:07
Speaker
I'm not, I don't need to play that role any longer. I, you know, so, so it's always a process of, you know, if you're consumed by activity, then you many times you don't, you don't stop to notice, but you even in activity, you need to stop to notice. And in my case, somehow activity has become
00:14:34
Speaker
Not so important. What can I say? Oh, you're saying a lot. So stop being the mother that you were. Interesting.
Cancer Support Journey and Volunteerism
00:14:43
Speaker
Explore that a little more. Yeah, easy. Everyone goes through it, okay? This whole, you know, you were the center of your child's existence at one point of time, then that becomes not important because you're more a philosopher and guide.
00:15:01
Speaker
and then hopefully your child has a good strong partner and you're no longer a philosopher and guide either other than you know when and if that is needed. Yeah so it keeps evolving and you keep changing. Yeah and you become just that person
00:15:27
Speaker
that your child knows he loves him or her and that love is just you know it just that's all there's no you know sometimes that there's an expectation of a role and for a lot of mothers there's a very
00:15:48
Speaker
active expectation of a role these days with children coming back into their families and families actually going back to joint families where parents and children are learning to live with each other when they are adults. And that's a whole different role. I mean, that needs magnanimity and wisdom. That is amazing. But I'm not expected to play that role.
00:16:16
Speaker
For me, it's very gentle. It's just like a perfume. That's what I see myself, my role as. Is that a metaphor for you now?
00:16:28
Speaker
It's like a perfume. Like you're like. I hope it is. I hope I'm feeling really good. Well, to me, even through this medium, you definitely are. You definitely are. It's like a mellow cup of coffee. Don't go beyond. Mellow, beautiful cup of coffee. And I think that comes across so beautifully, Anjali. You ever work with cancer support?
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah. How was it? What made you do that? And what was that journey like? Because it's been such an amazing journey. Amazing. Oh my God. So good. Okay. So the first thing, the first thing is that it teaches you total humility and you learn that you are not the giver. You learn, you realize that the person who is
00:17:26
Speaker
who allows you to enter their life, it is their generosity and their magnanimity that allows you to play any kind of role. And the courage that one sees as well as total loss of heart as well. But you see the human race is in a different light, you know, relationships that are so
00:17:53
Speaker
their relationships that break because of the disease, their relationships that become so amazingly strong, where, you know, husbands give up their lives, their earnings, they come to, because these were very poor folk, come to Delhi, live in really difficult circumstances,
00:18:21
Speaker
to take care of their loved ones and their wives. Yeah, it was a period of great growth for me individually. And I was indebted that I was allowed and I was able to access that. I mean, I was just in awe of the people I dealt with. I never thought that I had
00:18:50
Speaker
any answer to anybody. I was just the listener. I could work on some stuff and set up some kind of infrastructure to help. But basically, I think it's the emotional thing that I found really powerful. We did a lot of work in the sense of we were a band of volunteers and we functioned entirely on volunteers. Later we became
00:19:18
Speaker
We had more paid professionals from cancer support also entering the daycare. This is just the daycare of cancer support. Cancer support is a very powerful arm of home care where teams go out to patients' homes and takes care of them. And through this entire COVID period, they've been very active and they've taken care of their patients. But the daycare was just run by volunteers and the thought behind it was that
00:19:46
Speaker
The kind of experience that we had got as an organization through palliative care, emotional care for cancer patients was really, really important. And that's where we came in. And it was great to work with volunteers because they're all self-motivated.
00:20:04
Speaker
And there's a particular tribe that becomes volunteers. It was very interesting. So both from volunteers and patients is just learning, learning, learning all the time. It is lovely. What is this particular tribe that becomes volunteers? What are the characteristics? How do you see it? They go outside of themselves and the area of comfort. They prepare to step out.
00:20:33
Speaker
they are prepared to commit time resources for very little
00:20:43
Speaker
for the reward of, you know, the reward is not monetized. So it's, so obviously the reward is felt in a very different way. And the fact that we had volunteers that have been with us for, you know, 14 years and 16 years, I mean, goes to say something. It also was an organization that, because it was founded by a volunteer, really understands
00:21:13
Speaker
what motivates a volunteer. And yeah, so it is a different tribe. It doesn't monetize, it gives with an open heart. And it sits there with the heart chakra wide open. I think that's what makes it a different type. The heart chakra is really active.
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah, you have to be. That is beautiful. That is beautiful, Anjali. And it's something I resonate deeply with when you say this, because it just sounds so true. I mean, there has to be a tremendous amount of heart and generosity to be able to do this work. What led you to it? What made you do this? Oh, it was just my father died. And I always believed he was a great friend of mine.
00:22:07
Speaker
And I always believe that when the big tree falls, now that I look back on it, when the big tree falls, the small tree looks to grow. And it was just a very strong feeling of, I have to give back into the seva kabha bhota.
00:22:35
Speaker
even though I had worked with Crye earlier in Bombay and had a very great time with them. We had created Balsawa, this huge event across Bombay. But yeah, so there was this very strong thing. And Hadith went to, that's my husband, went to play golf on some tournament organized by Can Support.
Motivations and Inspirations for Volunteering
00:23:01
Speaker
And there was an evening after that.
00:23:04
Speaker
I kept looking at her deep and saying, now, where is the point at which you will do? You must give some money to this organization. Now, where is the point at which you're giving this money? And I met all these lovely women, you know, and the passion that they had. And I said, Oh my God, this is the kind of this is the kind of space I want to be in. Yeah, that was it.
00:23:33
Speaker
Okay. And since then, so many, many years, so many, many years. Yes. It's been many years. It's been many years. I haven't been directly going to the daycare now for well over a year, but even before COVID, I eased off on that because I needed to move away. It was a part of my exercise.
00:23:57
Speaker
I understand. We had spoken about this once before also, Anjali, when you had said that you were looking at moving away. And I do want to say, what I see in what you, and I'm going to play it back to you, you need to tell me how that lands with you, is that
00:24:14
Speaker
There is this wonderful, beautiful urge of celebrating life, be it through working with the situation of cancer for people, or through something like Gurgaon, which again is a celebration of life in a very different form. And I'm picking up that thread.
00:24:36
Speaker
in the way that you are talking about all the things that you have done, including the stepping away, the moving away, the feeling, the wafting like a perfume. How does that land with you? Is that like a theme? And is that something you've thought of? It's basically, it's- You know, it's also, I think many times, it's what grabs you at that moment.
00:25:04
Speaker
It's the fact that Uma and I became partners pretty early in Labanam. We lived in Labanam and we liked to create these little exciting events with joy. And for some reason, I'm always attracted to the public. I'm a volunteer at heart. I am not able to monetize.
00:25:34
Speaker
Not that I don't have respect for monetization because I could not have followed my heart and done what I wanted to do in my life if there hadn't been somebody in the family who was prepared to monetize. So yeah, so I just, it's just that. It's just the, it's opportunities that come up and then many you let go and some you embrace.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then some of them are fortunate decisions and both these were really fortunate decisions.
Embracing Future Possibilities and Freedom
00:26:09
Speaker
It's just been lovely. And what goes on, what happens in the future, I have no idea. From cleaning the slate to now, will the slate get filled up again? I've been waiting for the manna to land.
00:26:27
Speaker
But it is, I'm not quite getting, I don't really know where I'm going yet. That's all right. It's a great place to be able to waft for a while, isn't it? Not always easy, not always easy to walk. You also get vaporized. Yeah, you talked about that. But the fact is, and I do want to bring this back up because this is such an interesting conversation is,
00:26:56
Speaker
From vaporize, it came to wafting, no? Like a perfume. And it was almost like a growth in that. There seems to be such a beautiful evolution from vaporize to wafting. But yeah, wafting is altogether better than vaporizing. I'm telling you, vaporizing was very uncomfortable. But you know, sometimes to be uncomfortable is important. To be comfortable doesn't always work.
00:27:24
Speaker
We're always rushing back to that space of comfort. Absolutely. And so I'm deeply suspicious of it. Yeah. As uncomfortable as I am with the other. Anjali, what is... What is your name? No, I don't know. No, I don't know. You don't know me or you don't know me.
00:27:52
Speaker
No, it's like not resting in the either or, but going into the end. Your unique legacy, your, to, you know, every, well, let's just, every human being has a unique gift to offer, because nobody is you.
00:28:14
Speaker
A unique perspective, a unique lens. What do you think yours is? What's your gift? I don't know, Shiva. Maybe to accept, maybe to feel love and not sit on too much judgment. I can't say I don't sit on judgment at all, but yeah, it's something that I try and avoid.
00:28:42
Speaker
That's beautiful and very powerful. Thank you. But I wish, I wish I would be without judgment. It pops right back up again. But yes, we've been, you know, it's great when one doesn't have it.
00:29:02
Speaker
because it's so much more fulfilling and the relationship is just so much more fun. Exactly, exactly. If one could just get over oneself and life is so much more fun, if one could get over oneself. Is there anything else you'd like to say? You know Shiva, I've never talked so much about myself. I think I pretty much said, you know, plenty. Is there anything you'd like to say for people who are just starting out, who are
00:29:32
Speaker
you know, on their way, on the path, figuring out, getting the, you know, what, what. Yeah. Yeah. One thing, just one thing, you know, when we, when we fly to safety with the familiar, many times one does not explore one's own potential. One, just give oneself a chance to, to explore one's potential.
00:30:00
Speaker
rather than manage environment and manage people around one to just explore one's potential because we are just so full of potential. We are so magnificent creatures. We should just give ourselves a chance. I really believe that. I mean, I've seen this time and time again. We make our own limitations and we feel that
00:30:30
Speaker
And especially, I don't know whether the younger generation, but women of our generation learned to blame, or please forget blame, but place our limitations on somebody else's shoulder. My father didn't give me this chance. My husband does this. I think at some point of time, we have to all, whether this generation or the next,
00:31:00
Speaker
take responsibility for ourselves. And that is the toughest responsibility. Freedom is the greatest responsibility. There cannot be another more onerous responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. And on that note, freedom is the greatest responsibility.
00:31:22
Speaker
Thank you so much for spending this time on a soul brew with me. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and I hope it has been good for you as well.
00:31:35
Speaker
I think, you know, it's interesting to talk about yourself. Thank you so much, Anjali, for making the time. Really appreciate you having this soul group with me. Thank you, Shiva. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, and it's been certain metaphors continue to waft around me. It will. So I'm very appreciative of that one. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Shiva. Until next week,
00:32:28
Speaker
Keep the coffee swirling.