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Ep 42 - Sheba and Rebecca share a coffee
87 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a soul conversation over coffee with Rebecca Lewis. Rebecca is an Accredited Executive Coach & Facilitator. More about her is on her Linkedin.
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Transcript
Introduction to Soul Brews with Shiba
00:00:02
Speaker
Delighted to have you in the podcast where all stories are welcome and the masks come off. Hi Rebecca. Hi Shiba. How are you? I'm good and welcome to Soul Brews with Shiba on coffee and soul. I'm so delighted to have you here to host you and lovely that you made the time. Thank you so much Rebecca.
00:00:27
Speaker
Oh, it's really my pleasure. I'm very excited about this experience. Thank you for having me. Lovely. I'm looking forward to the next 35, 30, 35, 40 minutes, whatever, and getting to know you a little bit more. So have you carried your cup of coffee with you?
00:00:43
Speaker
Well, it's not coffee. I'm not a coffee drinker. It's tea. Chamomile and lemongrass to start my day off. Cheers. Cheers to life and to living. And that's a wonderful cup. And I see a Wonder Woman there. Is there something that you resonate with? There is. She's always been my sort of hero. I don't know if we want to... I've always found her inspiring. When I was...
00:01:12
Speaker
five or six, my mother used to let me stay up late on a Saturday night just so I could watch Wonder Woman. And I guess back then it was really the only woman that had a strong character on TV and it really resonated with me as a little girl. Besides her outfit looked fabulous.
00:01:32
Speaker
And she had these magic bangles that she could move buses and fight evil. Her hair was never out of place. Despite all she did, yeah. Yes, yeah. And I guess she's always stayed with me. Yeah, it's just, for me, it's like a little reminder of, I don't know, inner power. Absolutely. And also connecting with
00:02:02
Speaker
your roots of when you were younger. Isn't that beautiful? And that kind of excitement or thrill. Yeah. I understand that. So welcome and cheers to that. Cheers to the Wonder Woman in you. Yeah. Thank you. And in you, in all of us. And in all of us. Thank you.
00:02:25
Speaker
May I ask you to hold this cup of tea in your palms and just nestle it in your palms? Sure. Is it too hot? Is it all right? No, it's OK. All right. If it's too hot, it's all right. And just let the smells waft over you. And if you can just close your eyes and just relax. Breathe in. See if there's anything that comes up for you, Rebecca.
00:02:53
Speaker
as in an image or a sound or anything, what does this evil give you? Well, I don't know if it's just because we've been talking about Wonder Woman, but I was, and also being able to stay up and watch her on a Saturday, but it really made me think of my family, my parents, and what a gift and how grateful I am that the parents I have were the ones I was given.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, I get a lot of strength from the love I received as a child.
Childhood Reflections and Influences
00:03:25
Speaker
Has that been a key influence in your life? Yeah, I mean, I would say, so my parents were slightly unusual, I guess, for the time. And my mother was a full-time teacher, and my father was a fire officer, which meant he had quite flexible work. So I would say for a 70s girl, I had a great deal of
00:03:49
Speaker
male father influence. And he was certainly often the only man picking up a child from school. Right. In those days, that's amazing. Yeah. And I guess he always used to tell my sister and I, we were Amazon women. Really? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And always encourage us and say, well, you can do that. You can do that. And really built up, you know, our confidence or our self belief.
00:04:17
Speaker
I wonder sometimes if we went too far. But I think I'm very appreciative of having that male influence in my life, which was so unusual at the time.
00:04:33
Speaker
And that is amazing. And many women who have had grown up to be powerful, strong, confident women, there's a lot to do with the kind of male influence they've had, particularly with their fathers. There's been a lot of studies around that as well. And yeah, that's wonderful that you had that experience. And is there an incident that comes to your mind as we talk about this? I think, well, you know,
00:05:03
Speaker
I'm reflecting now, and I used to occasionally swim for my hometown and train with the swimming club. I love water, I love water and swimming. And I just remember when I started with them, it's quite a shock because you're in that water, up, down, up, down, jump out, back in, and it takes a couple of weeks for you to build up your stamina and your fitness to meet the rhythm of the group and progress.
00:05:31
Speaker
And I just remember my father sitting in the stands watching. And at one point I think I came out of the water on the edge and must've given him the look of panic. Like, what have I got myself into? And I just remember him saying, it's okay, you can do it. So I carried on because I had this, I think it's this trust, this trust in him.
00:05:58
Speaker
He's later confessed to me that inside he was thinking, oh my goodness, this is so difficult. But he didn't convey that to me. It was just this confidence and trust. And I just went for it and loved it and really enjoyed it. That's amazing. These are defining moments for us in our lives, isn't it?
00:06:20
Speaker
And so if I ask you to reflect on your life, Rebecca, how the journey has been, the highs, the lows, some more defining moments, could you play that out for me? I'd love to walk with you as your journey and go back and how has it been for you? Life has been great, but truly unexpected.
00:06:46
Speaker
And I think when you're young, you start playing out these ideas and visions of how it's going to be. And I see that with my own children now, they talk about what they're going to do or what they're going to achieve or, and then life actually happens and the twists and turns in the road that you really don't expect. You know, sometimes you can either sink or swim. And I think the love and encouragement from my family has enabled me to swim.
00:07:16
Speaker
and grow when challenges have come my way. Yeah. I mean, I would say when I was younger, I was very blessed because I had a very easy childhood. I loved school. I loved school. I loved learning. I still do love learning. I'm a lifetime learner. I have to stop myself from learning so I can fix a lot of things. I'm sure we all share that, don't we? Yeah.
00:07:46
Speaker
And, you know, I had academic success and then, you know, went on to sort of work in an international organization. I really enjoyed the challenge to some extent, the competition. But then I think there's a point and I noticed this often with my clients where there could be some trigger in your life or some point in your stage of life where you stop
00:08:14
Speaker
you go up on your balcony and you reflect and think, hang on a moment. How did I get here? And is this actually the right journey and path for me? And I think for me, I did a lot of course correction. Yeah. So, you know, looking back, I would say, and I still reflect on this now as a parent with my children, I know as women, in the academic world,
00:08:44
Speaker
I followed this wanting to please approach and always be a good girl. And that even was reinforced at home with my family and my loving parents who are encouraging, but I used to come home and want to share the success and get the praise and reassurance that I was a good girl. And, you know, that plays out all the way through my life and into my early years of work, which was
00:09:14
Speaker
working hard, doing your bit, being a good girl, delivering for your bosses. And there's some success that comes from that. Absolutely. And you were working in investment banking, weren't you? I was, yes. I worked for two American investment banks here in London. So much joy from the experience, exposure to so many cultures, the diversity. I love that.
00:09:40
Speaker
but I think that there was definitely a point in my career there where I started to reflect on what was holding me back. What was holding you back from? Moving forward, feeling more successful and confident as I rose up in the organization and understanding how I had to change myself in order to prepare for the next level.
Career Insights and Challenges
00:10:11
Speaker
So, you know, I was a department manager responsible for VPs. I was a VP myself and we were talking about the ND track and everyone kept saying to me, just need to be more strategic. Oh, okay. So I'm working really hard delivering to her. No one ever actually explains what do you mean by being more strategic?
00:10:37
Speaker
And I have a lot of this with my clients who reach a very similar position in their organizations. And my own reflection, right, you're wrong me. This is what this is about, isn't it? It's great improvements have been made in the development of women and girls from childhood. And I'm really excited for future generations. But even when I look back now, I think
00:11:07
Speaker
the way we're socialized at school, even if it's genetically. I noticed if you look back, girls tend to have these small friendship groups. If someone gets a bit big for their boots, well, they're soon slapped down and managed by the others. And they form such intense friendships that it's very much about being there for each other, that fitting in and pleasing and being the good girl. And then when I look at the male sort of
00:11:36
Speaker
standard male socializing that I saw, like even in the playground, it's more like the wolf pack, this sort of hierarchy. They all knew who the alpha male was, and they spent their play time jostling for position. And I still think so much of what plays out in the workplace stems way back to that time. And yeah, and when you reach a certain level,
00:12:04
Speaker
of management and leadership in an organisation. For women, my experience with clients and myself is that struggle to let go of that past and step into something new that isn't necessarily becoming one of the wolf pack, being aware of it and adapting to do it and working out authentically who they're going to be. And I really struggled with that.
00:12:30
Speaker
And so I can imagine. And so Rebecca, you probably find that is that what you do in terms of your work with women leaders? And you find yourself spending a lot of time in helping them through that? Is that something that? Yes. I mean, we even end up talking about the position of women through millennia. In the UK this week,
00:12:56
Speaker
the position of women has come to the forefront in our national press again. Very sadly, a very lovely 30-year-old young lady, abducted, it turns out, by a police officer and murdered here. And so, you know, the focus of the media and conversations is very much around women and the case of women again. And while we've made massive improvements and it's so exciting,
00:13:24
Speaker
We have to bear in mind we're working against almost a millennia of history where we haven't had the legal rights to support ourselves, the financial support, the physical ability to confront others. So we've learned that being adaptable and likable is the way to survive. And I don't know.
00:13:47
Speaker
Is that built into our DNA? Modern women, do we come from a long line of survivors, female survivors, who learned to adapt to what greater powers and view is being acceptable? Yeah, that's a great opportunity for a study, Rebecca, to just see. Go ahead, go ahead. Yes, this comes back to the learning with me.
00:14:14
Speaker
I'm so curious and intrigued and there isn't a day that goes past sometimes where I think that would be really interesting to look at. Someone should do a study into that. We started focusing on where do you need to go from there about your work and where you need to go and so what happened after? Oh yes with my work, yes. So actually I had
Personal Loss and Realignment
00:14:43
Speaker
Look, I can look back on it now. I had some, I had started to reflect on what to do. I'd started in implementing changes, but there's this one defining difference between a man and women in their career and that is baby making years. And we can't really, you know, source that externally source that it has to be done if that's something you wish to do is have a family.
00:15:13
Speaker
So I know I've spoken in the past, but I lost my first child. And to me, it was the very first time in my life where I felt I had truly failed at something. And something that women should, of course, be able to do. We've been doing it for millennia. And because I think I'd had such an easy, happy childhood in life, it really hit me, the sense of failure.
00:15:42
Speaker
that I wasn't able to do something that biologically should be possible. So as part of that, I decided to take time out from my work because I needed to get well physically, but it gave me the space to reflect and do my course correction. And that was a trigger for me to realign my priorities. And at that time it was to safely have a family.
00:16:09
Speaker
And then that became the focus for you and that's what you went ahead and did, Rebecca. Yes, it was. I actually thought to myself, I'll just take a couple of years and I'll have my children really quickly and close together because that would be a really good idea.
00:16:28
Speaker
Did I mention my hair used to be straight? See what's happened? Yeah, so the idea was I would do this and I'd go back into the workplace again. Really efficient plan. Let's execute it as we go. And actually what that plan did is it gave me some space to reflect. And I changed as a person.
00:16:56
Speaker
I relaxed, my priorities changed, and it wasn't that I didn't want my career anymore at all. I often reflect how it would have been different if that hadn't happened, but I'm so grateful for that deep sadness, but was a trigger for me to reassess what I was doing. And so I decided to start looking for more flexible work that would allow me to be in my children's lives.
00:17:24
Speaker
but also contribute and have something for myself. So I started to go into property development. I loved having a creative outlet and turning really old properties. Well, I made a point of buying really old properties that was so horrible, even if I got it wrong, it would be an improvement.
00:17:54
Speaker
And again, that was interesting because going from an environment where you had responsibility and you were given authority to lead and manage others, it was a different environment because I was leading and managing my team, but they're all independent people. It wasn't like an organization with a hierarchy. So it was a really great testing ground, again,
00:18:22
Speaker
hone my skills, you know, sometimes, sometimes, you know, not sharing how much I really knew to really understand where some of them are coming from. You know, because I learned a lot, even some electrical terms.
00:18:40
Speaker
You sometimes have these guys who'd show up and make assumptions about you. And I'm very smiley and warm. And then they chat away as if I didn't know what they were talking about. And then I could just come in with a, you know, are you going to put a one gang or two gang in there? And they go, how did you say that? And then they sort of, oh, we better be a bit more aware. So great, great characters, really fun time.
00:19:08
Speaker
and allowed me to be with my children when they're younger. That's fabulous. What did you learn about influencing through that? Because, as you say, what you're just telling me, it's leading differently, isn't it, versus having an understanding of how to show how one of the things that you said, that probably would have influenced them because
00:19:28
Speaker
Shell shock. How did this happen? How did she know what she just said? Yes. What did you learn about that, Rebecca? It was about influencing, about making things happen. That was different. Yes. Yes. Well, I think you're constantly negotiating. You had to negotiate for their buy-in, their support and, you know, a lot of the same leadership principles you'd have in a larger organization of showing empathy,
00:19:59
Speaker
caring for them, taking an interest in what they're doing or who they are as a person, not just them on the job, making sure you don't spend too much time on that because a lot of coffee gets drunk. I think, yeah, gentle persuasion and then at times having to really step up and
00:20:26
Speaker
You know, say this is what we agreed. This hasn't been delivered. What are we going to do about it? I guess maintaining your own grounding, personal grounding of what is right or how to treat people. Yeah. I did definitely occasionally play down my knowledge to make others feel much more comfortable so I could really see them authentically.
00:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. And in terms of once you did that and you got a sense of where people are, where you are continuing to work in this field, how did you move to coaching? What took you there?
Coaching and Personal Interests
00:21:12
Speaker
Well, actually, coaching was something I adored when I was at the investment bank.
00:21:19
Speaker
in about the year 2000, they took us all to one side and all trained us in grow. And I always just loved people development, team development. So I wasn't in HR, I was in the business, but I relished the opportunity to practice at the coal face and get deep experience of it.
00:21:46
Speaker
I absolutely love developing people and developing teams and turning around morale. And I think I got the reputation for being a jack of all trades, master of none. Very hardworking and good with people. So I kind of got moved as this department, this massive turnaround, people are leaving. It's a mess. There's mistakes all the time. It's costing us money. And I would go in.
00:22:14
Speaker
work, work, work. It's a bit like cleaning a bathroom. Again, this is coming up as a theme I'm reflecting now. I love cleaning a bathroom because you can really see what you've done. I love breathing new life into a really broken house because you can see what you've done. And then here, so I really loved a real challenge to turn around and the huge joy I got from
00:22:44
Speaker
having a happy work, happy team who are all empowered and I love that. But you know, I think sometimes when you're quite experimental with management techniques in an environment in banking where you need to have a lot of control, you have to be quite careful that you're not pushing boundaries too much.
00:23:08
Speaker
So that's, I mean, I remember in like 2002, three saying to friends, peers of mine, I'd really love to be a coach. It just took me surprisingly a much longer time to come back to that path. And that's really where I have felt like I've come back home now. And is that how it feels for you that you're home? Because I know that
00:23:32
Speaker
It's hugely who you are. We share this common space in working through some of the things, and absolutely. This is an interesting theme that has come up. It's like cleaning up and being able to see what the difference you're making. And is that something you've reflected on earlier, or is it something that's emerging? And where do you see it going?
00:24:02
Speaker
Well, actually, in the process of our conversation now, I'd never drawn the connections between the property development with the work in a large organization. And I guess, what am I doing now? Helping people who are at a junction, at a crossroads. A lot of my senior women, particularly,
00:24:30
Speaker
dealing with massive imposter syndrome. Like you wouldn't believe and they all confess and say, look, I'll just tell you this, but this is how I really feel. And you have these amazing women. And so for me, I just love, are we partnering together and building them up to go and be amazing? So it's not as overt as being able to see what you've done
00:24:58
Speaker
you know what you've done with the inner work with another individual that for me seeing their joy and their release and their liberation and knowing that that's going to have waves in effect other people in their lives at work or in their personal lives as well is so rewarding.
00:25:18
Speaker
I wouldn't change it for a thing. It's a vacation coaching, isn't it? It's not a job. Yeah, absolutely. It is a vacation. Absolutely. And you know, it's almost like, and as you're saying this, I'm linking it back to, it's like you're creating or working with this group of, a card or Wonder Women, you know? And they kind of release what is so beautiful in them to feel it and to be in it.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yes, it's freedom and liberation is what I really see. I often reflect on what do we do about this more broadly because I even had a couple of clients recently who took a short a career break for the child rearing very young age
00:26:13
Speaker
have gone on very sort of fast track women returners to work programs, which, you know, the organizations have put huge investment into and the feedback's been wonderful. They've really appreciated that. But then the organization is still the same as it was. And there's some sort of disconnect still going on. Like there's massive progress, but there's definitely a sense with my clients at the moment of great hope
00:26:42
Speaker
That because we've proved that technology can work in our favor to support more flexible working, a lot of people who are highly skilled and very accomplished can come back into the workforce without feeling a torn around their decision or
00:27:02
Speaker
responsibilities in their families, men and women too. It's not just women who've been reflecting that with me. That's so interesting. It's like, it's on-ramping again, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. And the hope that because the organization itself might change and create more of a flexible workforce, that that on-ramping would be more successful than it has been.
00:27:30
Speaker
There's a lot of people I know who joined for a year and then left. And what has been your experience? Why have they left? Just because the organization is the same? That's exactly the words that they used. The organization's the same. Expectations are the same. I had Wednesday afternoons off. I was working full time and I'd come back to my desk in the evening and carry out, but I was still having constant messages all through that Wednesday.
00:28:00
Speaker
It's not all organizations, but so it's that feeling that they've been welcomed back, but structurally it still wasn't working for them. Yeah. So systems don't really support what they say they'd like to support because systems are big things, isn't it? And it takes a lot to change. I'm just, I'm hopeful and optimistic that, you know, amongst this very sad time with the pandemic that we will,
00:28:30
Speaker
make such quick and big shifts, you know, that I went to the talk the other day, Professor Blacker, I'm not very good at explaining, saying her name, Blacker Hookliffe, I think, was at the Academy of Executive Coaching where I trained. And she was talking about how, you know, in the 80s and 90s and early noughts, you know,
00:28:56
Speaker
large organizations still have the traditional management of control and command.
Leadership Styles in Modern Workplaces
00:29:03
Speaker
And how that plays out still today, particularly in banks and insurance where you have to have the risk results in this control and command. And how through technology, it might be possible for there to be a shift into more contemporary collaborative, empowering employees
00:29:25
Speaker
that will really take business and organizations, even public sector forward, if we can make that shift. And that's the operative phrase, if we can make that shift, I think, absolutely. But I'm hopeful, I'd like to show you, because we're working at it and we're chipping away and hoping we are chipping away. Yeah, well, then I reflect on that whole control and command approach to management.
00:29:55
Speaker
And, you know, I've got a couple of clients who work with large banks and technology potentially has worked the opposite way in that, you know, their keystrokes are monitored, how active their computers are monitored. So that, yes, they're working from home, but there's now a level of monitoring where these people are completely trustworthy, working hard. And I just wonder what message that gives.
00:30:23
Speaker
I'm quite torn. I'd love to have a more open debate about the thought processes around that and what impact that has on employee engagement.
00:30:36
Speaker
That's another one to research. That's true, that's true. Is there an adage that you live by or something that's your, is there something that you fall back on as a thought or a metaphor, something that you live by when the chips are down? Well, I have my own little, my values and you can't see in my office, but behind the monitor, I have them on the wall.
00:31:06
Speaker
to look at whenever I need, when I feel I need a bit more guidance. And that is to lead with love for yourself or others and be authentic and have courage. Those are my three things. So yeah, what I'm learning more is, even with my clients, learning, using to lead with love for others is relatively easy compared with leading with love for yourself.
00:31:33
Speaker
That's been my experience. That's very powerful, Rebecca. Leading with love for others rather than leading with love for yourself. That will probably change choices, isn't it? Yeah, it's something I'm working on and something that's been highlighted through our developmental work together on positive intelligence. And what I'm seeing with clients is
00:32:01
Speaker
the hardest part is for people to love themselves, deal with the shame and vulnerability of opening up. I've had to work on that too. So when you asked me about my journey through life, you know, when I felt that I had failed, when I lost my first child, there was some shame attached to that internally.
Embracing Imperfection and Psychological Safety
00:32:23
Speaker
And then later when, not long after that,
00:32:30
Speaker
I got divorced as well, and I had two very young children dealing with the shame of feeling again, and I failed at that. When my parents had been so successful in their marriage and are still together, I had always expected that would happen to me. When things don't go to plan and you really sit with it and reflect, I truly feel that those experiences
00:32:59
Speaker
enable you to have more depth and compassion for others. I feel like I bring that to my work. I know that whatever I've experienced of you in our conversations together over so many months, now that's very true, Rebecca. There is a strong element of empathy and it's not just, I don't want to suggest empathy, but it's resonance and there is an ability that lets you connect and resonate
00:33:26
Speaker
And you can articulate and say that and people respond to that because it's so, it comes from a deep place and it's authentic. And so yeah, I can completely reverberate with what you're saying. I feel that if I had to sum up my life to where I am, it was pre the triggers, my life was all about perfection, trying to be, do my best, perfectly.
00:33:56
Speaker
almost being Wonder Woman, not a hair out of place. But the second part of my life I'm relishing is more about imperfection and the liberation that comes from imperfection, even from just connection with others. And I love being imperfect. I'm proud to be imperfect. And I don't think I could have said that.
00:34:21
Speaker
I think that is so, so beautiful, so beautiful. And when you say that, and when people hear these things, it gives them the permission as well to be imperfect. Just the other day, we were talking about this concept of wabi-sabi in the, in the, it's, yes, you know, and it's so, it's so, it's so true what you're saying, because a role modeling that it's all right.
00:34:49
Speaker
and for people to be able to be all right with it. I think that's so powerful, Rebecca, and more power to you as you find more facets of yourself to share with authenticity. I think it's amazing. Thank you. Is there anything you could have done differently? And I don't mean it in terms of regret, but just a blameless discernment. Yes, blameless discernment.
00:35:19
Speaker
Wow, where do you start? If I had been that woman working back in the investment bank and I had reached out and got a coach, the story would have been quite different. Tell me more. So to know then what I know now, this is why I really love talking to older women.
00:35:48
Speaker
and, you know, grandmas, stopping in the street with the little old lady with the dog. The knowledge you can get, because we all think that we're the first ones to do this, but they've been there before and the wisdom that comes pouring out of these wonderful creatures. If I could revisit my younger self, you know, I would say, go get yourself a coach.
00:36:19
Speaker
and have a lot more confidence in myself. Is that your message to women just starting out women say 10 years ago where you are today or where you were then? Is that something that you would tell them? When you tell them to be more confident, I work with them to find it within themselves to be more confident. Would you tell them to get a coach to start looking deeply?
00:36:48
Speaker
I would, without a doubt, and yeah, without a doubt, to do that inner work that will give them the confidence to take them forward in an authentic way that's right for them and who they are. And I know in lots of organizations, we've got some super examples of women leaders, but there's still work to be done. There's still so much self-doubt there. And I think some work around
00:37:18
Speaker
worrying less about failure and embracing that failure enables us to grow and learn. And it seems like such, well, of course, it seems like such a simple concept, but when you're right in amongst it, working as hard as you can, trying to perform at your best every day in a very competitive organization where there's a sense that failure might lead to vulnerability and exposure.
00:37:47
Speaker
it's not as easy as it sounds to put into practice. And I have the empathy for people knowing how some organizations operate, that they have to have deep confidence and conviction. Rebecca, I believe each one of us has a unique gift to offer human kind. It's different. It's just the way that we kind of knit it all together is different for each individual. What is your gift?
00:38:16
Speaker
Well, I'm told I have a very calming influence with people that I'm told they feel they can tell me anything. And it's a real privilege. So I think my gift is really making people feel psychologically safe. That's very powerful. And what a gift to have. Yeah, that's a real joy and privilege. Yeah.
00:38:45
Speaker
And that you own, and that's beautiful. Yeah. I think, you know, in my work, obviously, but also in my personal life, you know, people opening up to me, and I often get the, I never told anyone else before, like I'm telling you to. And when people say that, I think, I'm so honored that they trust me.
00:39:08
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. I think that is really, really beautiful. This is almost like carrying cold to Newcastle, but what's the benefit of having conversations such as these, Rebecca? Being open. So more people who are hiding and wondering if they're the only ones, know they're not. The more we talk about this and make it mainstream,
00:39:35
Speaker
the less these conversations are, you know, hush, hush in private coaching sessions and whispers amongst friends. Yeah. There's a, there's a great book. I think I often think about it for children and it's called the huge bag of worries. Okay. And in this book, there's a little girl who worries about so many things that her bag of worries gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:40:02
Speaker
until it's following her around and she just can't get rid of it. But then when she opens up to her grandma and her teacher at school and they take some of the worries out and talk about them, they suddenly disappear. And it's such a lovely analogy I use with my children when they're unsure and I say, well,
00:40:24
Speaker
It's better that we're talking about the bag of worries than we do in there. It's the same with adults. I really think it's the same. If we talk about what's there, it becomes, they disappear, the worries, the fear, the anxiety. And we can all live with more freedom and be liberated to be our imperfect selves.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yes and more power to that thought Rebecca so that we can all allow ourselves to be who we are and with the pieces that don't seem to completely fit but are still us and so this has been a wonderful conversation and is there anything else you'd like to say before we close out? No thank you for creating the space for me to spend some time reflecting with you. I found this really deeply valuable and
00:41:15
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for having me on here and I'm going to take away what we've discussed today and ruminate more.
00:41:21
Speaker
Wonderful. It's been an absolute pleasure to host you Rebecca and I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for being so open and for sharing parts of yourself with so much with grace and with openness. And I think that is truly, truly valuable. Thank you so much for your time and thank you for being with me on coffee. And so thank you. My pleasure. Thank you. Bye bye.
00:41:50
Speaker
Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Siva. Until next week, keep the coffee swirling.